I had this conversation with a coworker recently “If you go along to get along to get ahead and the people you’re trying to please don’t give you what you want in return, how do you feel about yourself? At least be true to your principles because even if they don’t get you what you want, you can at least rest assured knowing you didn’t compromise yourself or your beliefs. “
My dad, a volunteer firefighter for 20+ years, taught me the key difference between selflessness and being a nice guy. Obviously, he represented the first one. He spent days and days of his life putting himself in danger for his community. He always told me he only did it because it was the right thing to do, and he never wanted anything in return for it, not even a pat on the shoulder. He put his money where his mouth was. I credit that with helping me become the person I am now.
But suppose your dad met your mom while rescuing her from a fire. Suppose someone then said, "oh he did that because he likes her". People can be complex. Your choice of attraction may be someone you're being nice too, to impress and at the same time, you're just as nice to other people for no reason at all, just by nature. This is not against your dad, but just in general.
This is actually really helpful, I always get stuck in thought cycles of like "am i trying to get something out of this or am I just worried I'm not acting genuinely". I'll keep being me, it's their fault if they believe otherwise
Yeah I am the same, I keep paralyzing myself by thinking about my motivations of my actions, but I really should just start doing good, regardless of my motivations or if other people notice.
Being a good person is just me being impulsive. My actions sometimes get misinterpreted as flirting and that makes it weird. But I'm not responsible for how people misinterpret my actions.
When I was younger I had no idea what authenticity was or who I was, if this is you just stop following other people and focus on following your desires while casting out external judgement
Yeah the trouble with being yourself kinda messages is people always assume it means do what you want then when people say something it's their fault and their issues.
more often that not delusions become reality, if you live thinking you're a great person, you'll most likely be. this doesn't mean whoever that you should expect things in return, one needs the capacity to self-analyze
@@adsafgasgasdfasdfthe difference you point out is key to me. Hoping something good happens vs expecting that something good will happen is the important part. I think it can be fine to hope for a good outcome for you when doing a good act. The problem in my eyes is if you are only acting good for the sake of that outcome, that to me is fake goodness based on selfish desires.
@@adsafgasgasdfasdf That doesn't make sense. For the person who is stuck, the motive makes the difference exactly because the reaction afterwards is different. If I know someone only helps me to demand my number afterwards and maybe even threaten or insult me, I'd rather not get his help in the first place and call someone or wait for a kind person to help. And in this clip it's also about guys who complain that women don't go for the nice guys and/or that a woman doesn't fall in love with someone just because he is nice to her. It's ironic that the "nice guys" are the manipulative ones that don't (want to) understand that they aren't the good ones if they are only nice/friendly with people who they want something from.
@@adsafgasgasdfasdf I’d agree, however, for your own sanity, it’s best that the motivation be at least mixed - if you don’t get the number and that was your only motivation, you might say “oh well, at least I tried,” but you still are more likely to be disappointed than the person who can say “at least I helped her”
The problem I'm facing is that, if you just do good things enough times, people will stop being thankful. Don't get me wrong, I love helping others, be it a friend, family, or just a random person on the street. I don't expect money, love, admiration, or praise in return, but not getting a simple "thank you" after just helping a family member move, driving a friend to the airport, stuff like that, it's frustrating. I may just have had bad luck in the past, but it sometimes seems like you need to expect something back for people to value your efforts and time, be it money or them helping you out with something in return. It is frustrating if you're being taken for granted by people, who in turn get mad when you can't be there for them because you struggle with something yourself. Helping out is nice, but learning to set boundaries is important too.
Honestly man I struggle with that too. But it’s important to remember that just because you don’t always get a “thank you” doesn’t mean they aren’t thankful. Your friend probably couldn’t have moved without you. Your parents might not have had time to cook dinner or take the garbage cans out. It’s appreciated because the difference you make is FELT
@@sportmaniac10 That's true! There's been times where I totally forgot to thank people and realize I never did. I hate when that happens because I feel like a self centered d*ck or I think "oh they know I'm thankful" and I don't worry about it (but I could be totally wrong what they think). But if I'm thankful for someone, they'll usually see it more so in my actions than my words I think. I'm just kinda socially awkward. But, yeah, at the same time be aware if it's a constant occurrence of someone not showing you respect and walking all over you. It's not selfish to realize you're being taken advantage of and stopping it. Treat people how you want to be treated and if you don't get it in return EVER, then I say leave.
You're already going about it wrong. If you love helping others, then help others. Full stop. If you even expect a thank you, then you're not doing it out of selflessness, you're doing it for praise, even if it's a small part of you and even if it's a small thing to ask for, it's still asking for something in return regardless. Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, every time, even if people don't value your efforts, because in the end their evaluation of you means nothing. It's perfectly fine to want your efforts to be appreciated, but to be truly humble, you must be accept that people might never appreciate you, but still help them anyway because it's more important to be helpful than to be appreciated.
@@Banzo_ Yes, you said exactly what I was looking for here! People might not always thank you with their words, but their actions will always show you how they feel, and it's up to you to be perceptive enough to realize that sometimes people are just socially awkward or have difficulty expressing gratitude because of inner flaws they themselves are struggling with. Everyone is on their own journey, and sometimes that also means letting your paths diverge if they just don't align anymore. In the end, you're still helping them even by cutting them off, because in doing so you take away an opportunity for them to perpetuate the cycle of taking advantage of others, and hopefully from there, they can find a way to grow.
You have a point, help people who will help you back or appreciate your help. It's not worth your time and effort helping someone who is emotionally distant or self-centered. It is better to have 5 good people around you than 50 acquaintances. Most self-centered people today are not ignorant instead they are deliberately that way. Your generosity is not going to change them for better, maybe be even for worse. Help someone 3 times at most and then decide if they are worth it. We don't have infinite resources. Use pareto principle here too. Top 20 percent of your friends will lead to 80 percent of your social and emotional support.
Everyone expects something in return. Even my mom expects respect. It's not bad to expect something back. The problem is pretending you're doing something for no reason or pretending you don't want anything, then getting upset when you don't get what you want. The problem is being fake.
The difference, though, is expecting something *from other people* as opposed to expecting something *for yourself* regardless of other people's expectations. If you expect you will feel better about yourself for a job well done, that's between you and yourself.
the difference is that expecting kindness after you give kindness is normal. that's how human society should work. but expecting romance after you give kindness is creepy. imagine if a gay guy expected romance from a straight man just because he held the door for him lol
@@readyaimfire3454but most women know this and lead men on. No way to know someone's gay if they don't tell it. How many women do things for other Women that simps do
I'm a nice guy because I was ostracized as a kid for reasons outside of my control. Which made me anti-social and compounded into more issues as time went on. Eventually, I learned to make it go the other way, and turn it into a strength. I knew on a deeper level what made people likable without even trying to be likable. Not faking it, being yourself, not caring what others think. And I became a genuinely nicer and stronger person thanks to it. I turned my childhood trauma into a strength. All the fights, heated arguments, troubled home, it gave me an edge against people who had everything handed to them and are simply nice since its convenient to them. I'm nice for deeper reasons now and when I'm going through a hard time, it won't change me or my opinions. I'm unapologetically myself even through the hard times as a result.
The problem is that many people don't know how to live authentically, because they don't know themselves very well. They put on masks, try to fit into roles they think society wants them to play and honestly, who could blame them? But it is so liberating to be yourself. To live life according to your own values, set goals for yourself, find the right kind of allies etc. But for that to happen you have to put the little authentic things on display and experience life through them. Try out new hobbies, engage in social interactions in new ways, change jobs etc. and see how it feels, if it aligns with your values and who you are and want to be. Then accept where you stand and make changes accordingly. Maybe you are not as healthy/unhealthy, ambitious/lazy, smart/inept etc. as you thought you were. So now you can actually work on that. People will recognize when you do things because it serves you on your journey to become the best version of yourself and not just to "get" something.
Being authentic sounds so like trivial to me for some reason. I've been putting on a fake front around people for so long mainly because I want to fit in and be liked that I don't even know who I am anymore and its terrible how do you start to understand yourself more and your values because I don't want to live like this anymore
Honestly it is far from trivial. It can be the hardest thing you do in your life. Part of it is called "shadow work" for a reason as it involves looking at all the things you DON'T accept about yourself. There are a lot of techniques you can use and especially questions you can ask yourself. And believe me, as a life coach myself, that is a hard sell for people/the brain over going with the flow, masking etc. Until it is not feasible anymore and you go directly from "barely functioning" to "therapy for years". And everyone else that tells you otherwise, by "reading your aura" or "change everything with this one simply method", is not interested in improving your life. But here it goes: If you find yourself at a point in life where you had enough of doing what you describe, start with this question first: "What is important to me?" or "What are my values?". There are tons of lists with values you can go through online. I recommend picking one with between 40 to 60 values and then, by gut feeling, cross out half of those that you find not as important. Repeat until you have about 10. Those are your most important values. Then start by picking 1 to 3 of those you think need the most improvement in your life. Look for habits e.g. if kindness is important to you but you find it lacking in your life, get in the habit of greeting people with a smile regardless of how you feel, or start donating something, or pick a person in your life that deserves more kindness and do something for them etc. Obviously depends on the value what habits might fit. After/while you do this "value work", and there are certainly more nuances to that than I can describe here, start to ask "Who am I?" (personality, big 5) "What am I capable of?" (skills, resources, allies) "What do I want?" (goals, wishes, obgliations, needs, passions, obsessions etc.) and "How do I feel?" (emotional regulation). Make an inventory of yourself so to speak and go from there. Nonetheless, also keep in mind that in some cases, like depression, borderline or other conditions that affect your emotions and sense of self, it might be a good idea to tackle those first before going into a self-discovery journey. Or at least have a qualifed professional along for the ride. In any case I hope you can find some inspiration in this and I wish you the best on your personal journey. As they say, it's precisely the most difficult things that are worth going through. As someone that had to go through depression, social anxiety and more, I can attest to that.
@@LiveLearnGame Thank you for that comment I appreciate you taking the time to write all that. I'm going to start doing this by it up bringing up with my therapist who has like you said to guide me🙏
@@bananaspilt1988 You're welcome and sounds like there's already a plan in the back of your mind that you just might not see as such, but trust that instinct. The first step you have already in front of you! Best of luck!
@@LiveLearnGame Yes you are right it's really fear that holds me back more of fear of the unknown but I definitely know on the other side I will be better and stronger and more glad I took that step💪
That “if you feel like you don’t convey authenticity but you want to it’s because you want to get something out of being authentic” is something I really needed to hear, I’ve been trying to be “authentic” after not being authentic for a while but man I keep doing the same thing, thank you Dr. K
Maybe you also find this thought helpful: Focusing on getting what you want, makes you worry about your behavior and ties your happiness to outcomes. But authenticity comes from knowing yourself which fosters a deeper, inner contentment. So focus on getting to know yourself better, your values, personality, capabilities, emotions and goals. Because then your behavior will automatically - to some degree at least - start to align with those things. Good luck on that journey!
@@LiveLearnGamewhat do you do if you don’t know who you are? What about the millions of teenagers who haven’t even come close to figuring out who they even are yet?
@@theonlyjoe_ I think its not about "who you are", but rather "who you want to be". You dont really "find yourself". There is nothing to find. You may only take what is given to you and try to make the best you can with that. But it must be something YOU want make - any answer from the outside will always turn shallow.
This. 💯 Big difference between nice and kind. Nice tends to be disingenuous and usually ends up being resentful. Kind has healthy boundaries and respect.
How do you balance this though with e.g. you do something helpful for someone, and you expect them to at least acknowledge it or appreciate it. I understand doing things without expecting anything in return, but wouldn’t it feel bad to not be acknowledged at all?
You are right about them being different words with different meanings. Nice is usually used to mean pleasant. But nice can be used as an alternative to kind. I have heard people genuinely call someone kind a nice person. Nice is by default, a positive word meant to convey positivity, not a negative one. It's just nowadays the ridiculous "nice person" term has started to abused that.
@@Playdoee Expecting acknowledgement is still expecting something in return. And to be clear, there's nothing inherently wrong with occasionally expecting something in return *as long as you clearly communicate that expectation*. The trouble starts when you put on airs like you're being selfless when your true desire is to be acknowledged or loved in return.
I'm the kind of guy who would say "I may not be perfect, because I'm just like everyone else on this planet. Trying to get by, working at a job, paying my bills, putting food on the table, and just trying to survive to live another day. But I will try my best to help others who needed it the most. And at the same time, i will not bullsh- you just to get what I want. Because I've learned that I'm the only person who can reward myself and expect nothing from anyone else."
This is just pondering based on your comment, not life advice; You prove your being authentic by not being not-authentic. That's the most authentic way. If you try to assure someone you are, or explain how you are and what your goals are, you'll become suspicious. If someone interprets you wrong, that is not your fault, it is on them. You did what you could.
You may still need to prove you're authentic. If it matters to you that people understand you, you may want that. You may sense that the other person thinks you are not authentic. I think this guy is trying to be smart but the world is more nuanced.
@@peterc4082but you prove that you're being authentic by SHOWING your authentic self all the time, not by SAYING you're being authentic or by trying to CONVINCE people you're being authentic. that's what he's saying in the video (and what I'm saying to you)
When I ask myself "what I want" the only thing I know for certain is that I don't want what others want for me. This motivates me. I want to be authentic to myself so freaken bad!
I'm in the middle of this right now. I have a friend who's going through a rough time, and I try to be helpful and encouraging. Sometimes I doubt myself and think, "What are you trying to get out of this?" When really I'm just trying to do right by someone. Update: The friend I was supporting is in an abusive marriage and is working on getting out of it. I was just trying to be there for her, but as we got to know each other better, we've actually come to love each other. Life is funny like that.
You have a responsibility to take care of yourself before others, like outtin gon your O2 mask before others in an airplane. It's ok to do good with the intention that you get something out of it. Those things can exist at the same time. What makes it "manipulation" or being a "nice guy" is when you do things and immediately assume you are owed the nice thing back. It becomes manipulative when you aren't clear about your intentions, rather than asking directly.
It's not like good guys have to be pure angels. They can want something in return too. The key difference is that the good guy hopes for the best and accepts the outcome, while the nice guy expects a reward and gets upset when their expectations aren't met.
Not what he's saying here. He says that the good guy must be selfless and neutral, while the manipulator is someone who wants to get something out of his behaviour from someone else.
For real, if I ever catch someone complaining that their life isn’t fair on the basis of “But I’m soooooooo NICE!” I genuinely run as far away from them as possible, because that’s a manipulator waiting to spawn in.
I think you're missing the point. Your comment is about the difference between the way a nice guy and good guy reacts after they've done a helpful action. The nice guy gets upset and and the good guy does not get upset by the undesired outcome. You basically just said nice guys and good guys both expect something in return, but the good guys just handle the undesired outcome better. They're both still selfish, but they react differently. This video is about difference between a nice and a good guy's expectations behind their actions, one being more selfless and the other more selfish. "Good" guys don't expect or want something in return for doing something helpful for others, but if they do get something out of it, they're grateful for it. "Nice" guys go into the situation expecting or wanting something in return by default, and they're only content when they get what they want in return. Also, he didn't say good guys were "pure angels," and he never said people never want anything in return ever. There will always be instances where getting something in return should be expected. That's how business transactions work, which doesn't require someone to be a good person.
Being concerned with authenticity; for me it stems from not wanting to be taken the wrong way. It's out of fear. I'm being authentic but I also don't want someone to take me the wrong way and then berate me or something along those lines.
The "struggle to convey authenticity" is something I ask myself since I tend to be highly empathetic and can understand if someone has trust issues. It's like...no, I'm not trying to get anything out of our relationship, I'm genuinely concerned for your wellbeing and want to make sure you're okay. Usually my fears are unfounded but I have had people take advantage of my kindness and it's not a fun experience, makes me feel like I had screwed up by smothering them.
For most of my life I have struggled to get a normal relationship with a girl/woman. I had started to think there’s something wrong with them, without realizing there’s something wrong with me. But I guess I had made choices that had lead me up to this day, even if it isn’t favorable or even what I actually wanted. I had eventually learned from my mistakes. However I am still single despite the revelations.
People with trust issues tend to prefer a few things in a friendship or any kind of relationship that might not seem intuitive to someone without trust issues: Primarily, understanding when they just need some space and time. And importantly, you can’t go making assumptions with them - that goes wrong really quickly and you’ll rapidly find yourself at square one again. You have to let them drive, cook or dictate the pace. That’s the kindest thing you can do for them because it demonstrates that you have understanding and empathy without needing to bombard them with kindness. They don’t want or need pity, just understanding and patience.
Good people are good because of learned behaviour. They do get something out of it. That just isn't something the other person actively gives them. For example they might do it just to see the ohter person smile. They are not receiving anything or wordly value but they do get a lot of satisfaction out of it.
@@jasperzanovich2504 I don't think that's learned behaviour. Learned behaviour would be a kind of automatism. If you make the decision to do something because it's the moral thing to do, it's not a learned behaviour. I may not get anything out of this moral behaviour. I think you're reducing everything to simple motive. I don't think that's quite right. I think learned behaviour would be something like automatically looking right or left when approaching a pedestrian crossing. If you know something is good and you do so, I don't think that's learned behaviour. I suppose it's because you learned what the moral behaviour is and then choose to pursue it. I can also learn that it's good to not take advantage of another, but I may decide to do it anyway. I think your approach reduces things too much and simplifies it and at the end gives pure nihilism. It's false and dangerous. It removes the decision from the person. And sometimes doing good is actually punishing and goes against motive. In fact there may be no tangible benefit from making the correct choice.
I’d rather not be disappointed, people pursue what they want there is no shame in that. Not trying at all & being another adult’s caretaker for no reason is a waste of time. Give, see how they react, keep or move on, simple.
I think that's more than fine and I think we all do it. The big issue is just being honest about what it is. You're not being nice, you're pursuing what you want and using and manipulating whatever you can to get it. Which is fine. But there's a lot of guys who do this then genuinely perceive themselves as being nice or good. They do these grand gestures purely with the aim of getting something out of it. When they don't get what they want they genuinely believe it's wrong that they didn't because they were so "nice". Like on the pill websites, every single guy thinks he's a good guy, yet they're almost all assholes who never did anything selfless in their lives.
I needed to hear this. A guy I rejected a year ago kept being my friend, BEST friend dare I say, I genuinely thought we could keep being friends bcs he was the one person I trusted more than anyone and he prob knows everything about me, but when I got a boyfriend, he became condescending and rude towards me and seems to have no interest in being my friend anymore, it genuienly broke my heart because I thought we would always have each others backs. But I realize he kept up the frienship with ulterior motives this entire time.
Bruh he made his move, and you assumed he actually was okay after this? so you could continue to use what he provided (probably paid for you as well). There is no way for us to know for sure if you've presented the whole story and didn't alter it to make yourself look good and him look bad. He's a simp and hopefully he learned not to be simp ever again.
@@mind-blowing_tumbleweed Nope didn't assume, I knew after I rejected him our friendship might be over bcs that's usually what happens so was preparing myself for the worst back then and giving him space, but he kept up the friendship and I was happy to do so with him. Wouldn't gain anything from altering the story in a space where you simply share your expereince. And I like to pay for my own things. 🤷♀I'm not from a place where the men are expected to pay for everything.
@@swr5945word of advice. If a guy says they like you and still wants to be friends, they’re just playing the long game. Feelings don’t go away unless you do something that hurts him and doesn’t make him like you anymore (in this case it was you finding someone else). But guys who say they want to still be friends are lying. Source: I am that person, though I don’t wish to be. I’ll admit I don’t deal with rejection well even after all the times I’ve had it happen.
This is a great point! When you don't know what you're doing you end up trying to be something you aren't. I fell into this trap long ago, when I stopped caring what other people think of me things worked themselves out. Edit 1: This also includes those you truly care about, act like a free-range chicken, without allowing yourself to be used like one.
@@Dimitris_Half not always, I've been so earnest in the past that people assume I was lying or being manipulative. Lots of people just have trust issues from their past and are sceptical of others.
Be careful about generalizing the results of honesty. You can't learn much from people who have trust issues. Your life will suck if you lie because that is all extra work: you have to be consistent with any lie you tell. Tell the truth when you decide to speak. Last thing. Actions don't lie. Do the right thing consistently.
Something I noticed about guys that will tell you a lot what nice guys they are, is they usually aren't when you get to know them. When they don't get what they want, they get angry and bitter real fast. Genuinely good men don't crow about it. They don't tell you what great men they are. They just do good in the world and will help whenever they can, and they don't screw anyone over. They don't have to tell you what good men they are, because consistent actions show you that they are.
I don't even think it's bad to expect something in return, that's only natural and to be expected most times. The problem is when you get mad at the person for not reciprocating especially when they didn't ask for your help to begin with. If you're a mature good person you do 'nice' things when you can afford it because that's best for you and people or *just not do it* if you can't. If the other person gives back that's preferred but if they don't it's ok you did it mainly cause you could and it's the best to do, the other person response is secondary. Plus If you only do good things when a equivalent reward is guaranteed...you won't do good things often or at all lol
"there's no UNselfish good deeds." - Joey Tribbiani every good deed you do will always be to benefit you as much or more than the person the good deed was for.
Be a “nice guy” simply cuz you care about people. Through empathy and compassion. More technical: you’ve felt pain, and it sucks. Through empathy, you can imagine how it might feel for other people to be in pain and you don’t like that. Thus you try to reduce their pain. Same, but opposite, goes for joy and happiness
Basically: A nice guy will act in their own self interest while a good/kind guy will act in your best interests. A nice guy may validate your bad behavior while a good guy will call you out and tell you to improve. Been saying this for years. Nice to see Dr. K drop a short on it.
Another important point is that a good guy almost implicitly can not be a soft guy. I do good because I want to do good, but I'm not a pushover, the issue is that "nice guys" will claim to be good guys, then complain when they either sacrificed too much, don't set strong boundaries, or have unrealistic expectations, often some combination of the three. If I CHOOSE to help out someone at my own expense, hypothetically, and then the cost of the sacrifice is slightly heavier than expected but still what I volunteered for, I'm NOT going to place ANY blame on the person I'm trying to help. There's also the differences between being nice and being good, and the differences between being passive and being peaceful. A passive person will LET things happen to them, a peaceful person will do everything in their power to improve their situation and those of others around them, WITHOUT stepping on the free will of others. All good people are nice, but not all nice people are good, and the only correlation between passiveness and peacefulness is how it appears on the outside sometimes.
@@redgreen2453 There's not downsides to being nice, there's downsides to acting weak. That's the main point I'm making. It's not kindness to give into pressure and enable someone's bad behavior for example. In order to truly be kind, or "nice", you need boundaries, without boundaries, there can be no kindness. It's the difference between charity and robbery. You can't take anything from me that I'm not willing to give. But I'll give it to you because it's what I want to do.
Yes! You're allowed to be sad and frustrated if you don't get the social return you're hoping for, that's a normal emotional response, but the point is to not go around thinking you're "owed" it and that people who don't give it to you are being unfair and withholding your rights.
Yes this. When you help someone and its not really acknowledged you get a bit of a hmm okay feeling, and that's perfectly fine. As long as you don't take that feeling too seriously
This is genuinely the best relationship advise I've ever received as I'm normally the one giving the advise. I've liked this girl a while and was wondering how to be there for her without being a "nice guy". Now I realize I was never a nice guy. Because I don't expect a relationship out of it, I just want to be there for someone when they need me and if I want a relationship I can do so GENUINELY and with thought and effort. Thank you
So you're searching for something ;-) It's not a critic, its delusional to think that we can act not expecting smething in return. In ethology there is a thing called delayed altruism. We are not altruistic for nothing, we expect to gain something in return, even unconsciously. It can be egotic (I'm a good person), moral (i did the right thing), or even to avoid negative feelings (if i'm not good, i'll feel guilty), or selfesteem (I have no value so being good is the least that I can do, especially to avoid rejection).
@@BreatheManuallyThat's not my point though. My point is that to divide niceness it two different categorize is a nonsense. There is not such is as good guys in the definition of "someone being nice with no interrest or benefits". We always have an interrest. Not always material, but always one. When a parent take care of its children, he favorize the perpetuation of its genes, even if its not aware of that. We don't always calculate or premeditate our niceness but we are always searching for some "reward". I don't think it's a good thing to segmentize it in two binary box. Life is always complexe and made of shades of grey. So I was not criticizing you in anay manner, on the contrary.
@@Kupperdurden Its kinda hard to disprove though, so I kinda disagree. But I would say as long as there is no conscious thought in the rewards of your actions, I would categorize it as "good". So its between conscious want for reward and unconscious want (if its even provable in all cases) for a reward; whether it is just fulfilling a role or some primal desire to do good for some people.
@@BreatheManuallyYou consider that if you're conscious of some forces that drives you, that change your category? That quite limits categorization. First of, that evolve. Secondely, not everyone that does good to seduce for example is aware of it. Awareness is a mesurement but not the only one. If I go see a therapist and if makes me conscious of that, it change my categozy and therefore the morality of it? The forces are still the same. You can't change what you are deepdown. Being nice is a way to seduce people (not in a pejorative way). What if I'm nice because i think there is nothing other interresting or worth seeking for other people? If i'm not funny, smart or good looking, or rich (alll of those are also a way to seduce, in a sociological perspective)? Can't I have the right to take advantage of what I have in my luggage? Consciouness of your behavior is a sign that you introspect and a positive thing, it can't be held againnst you. Be aware of something can't make it bad by standards. Especially because first, being aware doesn't give you power over it, secondly, because the motivation and the needs are important to consider the action. When someone seduce someone, they always think about themselves, what the other can bring to the table, not the other way around. PS : Sorry for all the grammar and voccabulary mistakes, i'm not fluent in english.
My mom always said to me that if I wanted to give someone something or help them to do it because I wanted to and not to expect a reward or nothing of people...
nice and kind are two different things the best explanation i have heard is that the west cost is nice they ask if you are having a bad day and say aw that sucks i hope you have a better one without trying to help, but the east coast is kind they will make fun of you and be rude but if you need help they will help you you WILL hear about it as they are helping you though.
I can't recall how many times I've heard "yeah I like to think I'm a good/nice person" from people who have shown nothing but disrespect to other people. Lol. I remember one vividly, he was a man child still living with his parents at damn near 30 playing guild wars 2 and he kept pressuring me to believe he was a good person. He was not. Bro legit laughed at the suicide of his friends wifes friend.
@CR-rm4iy Obviously you know your brother better than me, some rando on the internet, but kinda sounds to me like that worked on him not because he believed he was a good person, but because he's worried that he's not. For a lot of people, when someone hits on our insecurities or uncomfortable truths is when it actually makes it through the armor
Around 7 months ago my friend at the time ended up breaking up with their boyfriend, he ended up cheating on her because he felt like she wasn't around enough even though it wasn't her fault. Afterwards I was the only person who reached out to make sure she was okay and eventually after us talking for a while we ended up getting together. I never intended for that to happen, admittedly I had feelings for her before I reached out and that's what caused me to in the first place but I never expected her to want to be with me because of me actually being a decent human being and making sure that she was okay, I guess that just goes to show how low the bar is four guys actually caring
Sure, but there’s a difference between falling into that pattern and trying to be a manipulator. Here’s the thing: Think about your reaction if a friend of yours goes on a date with someone and the first word they use to describe them is “nice” - you likely get a not particularly great picture of that person, best case scenario they’re just a bit bland. Worst case scenario they’re a user. But if a stream of other adjectives start flowing, then you get a much more interesting picture, and you can tell if that person has actually got an authentic personality or not. “Nice” in my book is just a polite way of calling someone “fake.”
I agree and disagree. Everyone at some point does something good expecting something in return, but that doesn't mean that it becomes a habit or a pattern of behavior. That's what a nice guy is. Someone who consistently does nice things in order to appear good, expecting it to benefit them. And they often get quite upset when it doesn't.
Nope. Some people were taught right, or had the right mindset from the jump. "Do things because it's the right thing, not because you want something in return." "Treat others to way you want to be treated."
You'll see this play out when people are being 'generous' or 'charitable'. Pretty quickly very clear who does and doesn't want / expect something in return.
My boyfriend I met 4 years ago is a good guy and acts even more selfless than me because he has great cooking skills that he uses to feed people who are poor/down and out and genuinely wants to. Since we aren't married yet, I see fake nice guys everywhere trying to downplay him to get to me and it looks so petty and immature like dude just because you flex and workout it doesn't mean I want to get with you 🙄 I've always liked guys with a little more squish because their hugs feel so much better than muscular shredded hugs.
I tend to feel that if I have to tell people I'm "nice" I'm doing it wrong. So I let my actions apeak for me, because that's what'll happen anyway. I don't seek rewards for being nice to others. Acknowledgment is more than enough.
If you don't mind, how do you "let your actions speak for me"? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I don't know how to socialize and I'm never in situations where I can show who I am (not that I even know how to since my upbringing has made me a "blank slate")
@@frankkennedy6388 there are a few different parts to this. There's social aspects, and just doing nice things (like helping a friend or parent with chores or other activities). I'm very chatty, so I'll just start sharing my interests with others. This includes personal projects too, if I have one I'm working on. But I make sure to ask what they've been up to, or ask relevant questions, before I talk about myself or things I like. Example: Let's say I wrote a short story. I'd typically start with "Do you like to read?" then if the answer is yes, follow up with "what type of books do you read?" If the answer is no, I ask why not, or what they think they'd enjoy reading. The goal is to talk about what I want, while still letting them share what they'd like to share. So even if I control the conversation (I tend to do that), I'm still allowing them room to express themselves. The goal here, is they not only know they have input too, but that I value and consider it. Now doing kind things varies greatly. I used to cook a lot of food, and I'd share it with my roommates. This was because I didn't want to buy glassware or Tupperware to store it, but I still wanted to cook. So I just shared it with my roommates. Other times I'd make time to hang out with my friends. We did group activities like bowling or laser tag at the university, and I always made sure to attend. These are some examples on how to show others you care. It's not exclusive to these of course, but keep in mind the three sections of commitment: Time, attention, and energy. Make sure at least two of these categories are being allocated per activity. And do not expect repayment. Sometimes it's nice, but always keep your expectations in check.
@@frankkennedy6388 when I get particularly chatty, I try to let the other person know I still value and appreciate their input. I ask questions about their interests before talking about mine. I also make time for those around me, and try to attend hangouts or gatherings.
@@frankkennedy6388 just go about your life and don't do crappy things. *the goal* is NOT to *gain relationships* out of however you're trying to be; *the goal* is to be a good, healthy person who is confident, who knows themself, who is happy as a person by themself, and who (by actual happenstance, not by trying to manipulate circumstances), will attract people to them, instead of repelling them with transactional "nice guy" behavior
Very serious advice: do NOT be selfless. Really, absolutely don't. You'll get exploited and thoroughly destroyed. A lot of people will find you, see you as a prey, and after you give everything they'll seek to destroy you so you cannot talk about it, and cannot give anything to anyone else. It's very good to want specific things from relationships, be upfront about them once you think you can trust the person you're talking with (but don't let your guard down too quickly) Always think of yourself, put boundaries, and as soon as someone try to overstep or trample them, kick the person out of your life and go full no contact. Even if they try to play the pity card. They will be merciless with you, don't let them have a inch of possibility to hurt you in the slightest. And cut ties with people who are in contact with them as well
It's so weird living my life questioning myself on topics like this and then suddenly seeing a Dr.K video basically confirm my conclusions after (always only after 😅) I've figured it out on my own lol
well but "good" people also get something in return; the nice feeling of having helped someone, the thanks people give you, the way people look at you, etc
@@Void-Knull no that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that doing things for others is almost always if not always transactional, the reward just isn't necessarily something tangible. I do wonder though, if you do not receive any enjoyment out of helping people, but still help others, why do you do that?
It is only just that God set up a reward system for good behavior. Problem is, expecting the reward can corrupt us into doing the outwardly selfless thing for selfish reasons, trying to game the system. Whether a sacrifice was genuine is revealed by our reaction when we don't get the reward. That's what the story of Cain and Able is about. I really despise that Santa Claus song where it mindlessly says "…so be good for goodness' sake" right after teaching children to be "good" for the reward's sake, not for the sake of genuine goodness. An effective way to raise fake people, I assume.
I don’t think it matters whether you’re good or bad, whether you want something in return or not as long as you are actually nice and do good things which benefit others
Perfect explanation. Would good guy also sacrifice their time and what they would rather be doing to do something they understand is more important to someone or something else.
this explains so much to me, I would be willing to give my friends £200 for a holiday they're going on and I'm not going to. and i don't want anything from them, i just want them to be happy but ive always had these doubts of myself wondering if im a bad person for offering them this money (not a loan btw i don't want a single penny of that money back if it means they have fun, because their happiness means more to me than me having money)
I understand giving gifts, but $200 is a lot to take from someone even if there are no strings attached on your side. It seems like a risky cycle to get into and I think you should ask yourself why you truly feel the need to do that for them other than a vague hope that it will make them "happy". It would be more reasonable and more financially smart to, if you feel so inclined, give them something smaller such as snacks or sun screen. I've heard of some people getting trapped in a cycle of basically paying to maintain friendships, coming off as desperate/clingy, or even being easily manipulated by a bad friend in the group. Why is it not enough just to ask to see photos of their trip or have them stop by to talk about the trip with you?
@@haleyb6027 because i know my life is going nowhere so (as much as this sounds really inconsiderate), £200 is really nothing to me when im going to achieve nothing in life anyway
@@haleyb6027 because their happiness is worth more than £200 to me so id rather they had it than me, who's life is going nowhere and won't ever improve
Still working on this. Being good for being good and not for recognition of being good. Sometimes it works out sometimes it would be nice to know that someone else sees it. Then the extra layer of being good and still nothing happens.
I don't think that wanting something in return is always bad ; it depends how big this thing is and if you're going to keep being the same after getting it. If you're nice to a girl and hope to get a date from this, then it isn't really bad. If your end goal is to have a relationship with her and get intimate with her, as long as you will keep loving her and being nice, and don't end up dumping her, then it really isn't that bad. I myself want to be nice, while having trouble to be nice because I do want things in return as well. So, if I do mean to be good to that person, while expecting something out of it, but I'll always be nice either way. I don't know if this is clear, but I really don't think "acting nice" is that bad, as long as you aren't a jerk. There's a difference between a jerk pretending to be nice and a normal guy pretending to be nice, while the latter isn't as much of an act.
that’s exactly what he’s saying though. it’s about trying to appear authentic when they’re not being authentic. as long as you’re conveying you’re not doing these things and wanting nothing in return then there’s no problem. it’s that „nice guys“ need to stop lying about doing things and wanting nothing in return, cause girls can smell that a mile away. if you’re upfront about it you have a much better chance of being interesting to her cause you’re not lying to her about who you are.
there is no „jerk pretending to be nice“ or „normal guy pretending to be nice“ everybody is the hero of their own story, anyone who acts like a „nice guy“ genuinely believes of themselves as a good guy. the difference is if you’re lying about your motives or not
Being blindly selfless is not a positive thing. We could argue that selfless acts are done for self fulfilment. Which could be selfish in nature. It just so happens to benefit other people as well. So the public generally looks kindly towards these selfless individuals because it benefits them. Wouldn't that be selfish of the public? The people who want selfless partners often want them because they are more impressionable and manipulatable. . Expecting reciprocity in relationships is not selfish by any means. It's logical.
I have been of the opinion that kindness with expectations of a reward isn't kindness True kindness, is doing it for someone you don't know, because it is right, because it'll make them happy, without a reward or retribution That is kindness
There is no such thing as a "good person" or a "selfless person" everyone wants something in return for something. If you seek romance it's because you want romance. If you do something good it's because being good feels good to you. Every action is transactional. Acting like sacrificing ourselves selflessly and let ourselves be walked all over is the way to be a good person is something a manipilator would say.
sure, the difference is who uses it as a tool of manipulation and not just because of the kick that it gives them to do good, which id what Dr K is talking about
Right? Everyone is getting something out of their actions. Nothing is selfless. Best we can do is make sure our actions benefit others as well as ourselves I guess
@@MaejorArray Nobody owes anyone anything. And you aren't entitled to anything. Period. Acting like you should be a 'good person' and expect nothing in return is naive and childish and it's a sure fire way to get taken advantage of. I never said there wasn't a difference, I said that one is nonsensical and illogical behavior and the other very much makes sense. Read the whole thing next time. Also I'm not making excuses for incels or nice guys who 'do something nice' and expect to be given a date, love or companionship. I think they are extremely stupid because again, nobody owes them anything. That's how the world works, the sooner you realize it, the better.
Selflessness doesn't exist. The only reason any person does anything that appears selfless is because he/she believes it will help him/her in some way. If you enjoy helping people you help people *because* you enjoy it, hence you're doing it for selfish reasons. It is inconceivable that a person would chose to do something that he/she doesn't enjoy, something that will not help them in any way. True selflessness, as an impulse, could never evolve in a species.
The group isn't homogenous. For some men this will match, for some not so much. Quote from Michael Vassar: > But how did nerds originally become bitter? By being ignored by women? Then why would women ignore them before they became bitter? > Suppose that middle-class American men are told, at an age too immature to examine parental commands critically: "In dealing with women, be X, Y, and Z" where X, Y, and Z are instructions like "Only express sexual interest in those women who you are confident are interested in you, prior to that, always be polite." And middle class American women are told, in a similar fashion, "In choosing a man, look for politeness and respectful non-sexual behavior." > So far, so good. The message is consistent. > But when women grow up, they find that they aren’t attracted to the men they were told to look for. Maybe they believe, with reason even, that such men are ‘boys’, not ‘men’, and find this unattractive (ultimately because it was and still is evolutionarily unfit). Instead, most women spurn the timid advances made by the ‘nice guys’ they think they should prefer. But since they believe they should be choosing such men, they also decide that the men they reject cannot be the type they were told to prefer. This may explain why ‘nice guys’ might end up labeled ‘liars’. > In this model, the nerd’s sense of thwarted entitlement comes from recognizing that he has the traits X, Y, and Z that authority figures told him to display and that women claim to want - which does nothing to change the fact that feelings of thwarted entitlement for ANY reason are extremely unattractive. > In this model, masculine attractiveness requires recognizing that: > A) The rules that one is taught as a boy are simplified rules for boys, and some of them must eventually be discarded once you figure out better rules. > B) The real rules require you to give lip-service, when in mixed company, to the rules for boys. > Nerds tend to be literal, to lie infrequently, to greatly resent being lied to, and to not adjust their behavior based on information their brains have not yet verbalized. > Nerds are also reluctant to behave hypocritically, e.g. by verbally condemning a behavior while engaging in said behavior. If this is what is socially demanded of them, they will be unhappy with the situation. > As a result, they may never become men in the relevant sense.
Yet lots of women marry a nice guy, that is doing X, Y and Z, because that’s what they’ve been told they want/need. Those marriages all to often lead to dead bedrooms and divorce. Society and parents need to start telling young people the truth. If that kills the institute of marriage, it was never a good institution to begin with. We might need to replace it with something better.
People have always told me that I'm really genuine and I never knew what that meant and whether it was good or bad until I experienced someone that is very clearly putting on an act. I also never tell people that I'm a nice guy I tell them I'm an asshole that tries to be kind to people
Most nice guys really aren't nice at all. They just do nice gestures for people to get something out of it in return, then when they don't get what they're after they go online to be racist or hateful about women while touting what saints they are. That being said there's nothing wrong in being nice to get something you want, you just need to be honest with yourself and the other person about it. It's kinda human nature to some degree but lets not pretend it is all out of the goodness of our hearts, it's not nice, it's rather manipulative.
I just figured out I've been trying to put working on my marriage in front of working on myself and it's destroying us. Prioritising the marriage first means i see everything my wife could do better and far less that i can do better because it's it's natural to see faults in others easier. I've had so much regret for not giving myself more time to "work on myself" before starting this relationship. I realised i had this idea that before relationship i prepare by putting all my energy into bettering myself and when in relationship i spend that preparation on my gf/wife. I just came to the realisation that i should never have stopped putting my personal development first. Focusing on the relationship actually blinds me to my own problems because a relationship is 2 people's problems the other person's problems are always gonna look bigger than your own.
I stopped being a "nice guy" early. Being nice in a good way is like giving gifts, if you expect something in return you should not give them. Just don't drown people in gifts if it makes them feel bad.
I think most of us believe in some notion that goodness is rewarded and bad is punished type of karma, but really it is just being good regardless of whatever happens that matters.
Indeed. But good deeds are good because God thinks it is good. He will reward you. He will reciprocate you for it to release the other person(s) from the burden of your sacrifice. We are all equal, and they are unable to repay your debt as they are truly selfish creatures. If they were not selfish, they would give you a hit or a sign of it.
@penderyn8794He's good because he likes to be good. It's its own reward, and it makes him feel good and authentic by caring about other people (full stop).
@penderyn8794 People can be selfless and still not give you anything in return because what you want is unreasonable. If you are nice to a woman only because you hope/expect her to fall in love with you, it's an unreasonable expectation that she can't fulfill out of selflessness. If I help my disabled and poor friend to move into a new apartment chances are low he could ever return the favour, no matter how selfless he is. There are millions of examples where being kind to someone doesn't mean you should expect them to return the favour immediately or with something very specifically that you want.
Indeed, another problem is that we see more and more being fake working and being authentic not working. The other problem is dealing with rejection some people, myself included, just don't want to deal with that or be successful in that only for the person you choose be a terrible person. This all applies to all kinds of people.
"nice guys finish last" is where the term comes from. It was coined in 1942, and has been the standard label for men who think they deserve something ever since. We didn't tarnish it, our great grandparents did.
@@ghostratsarah I always hate it when people turning perfectly normal human beings into monsters by lying and deceiving others of how reality is, instead of how reality truly is. Which it explains the “incels” and “simps” had existed to this day.
“Nice” is just a crap word. 🤦♂️ It sounds like a filler word, and when it comes to people, it’s honestly just a polite way of calling out someone who’s fake. In this sense, it has a purpose.
@@CR-rm4iy Not gonna lie, the second someone starts complaining by calling themselves “nice” is the same second I leave the conversation. 😂😂 Honest and authentic people don’t use those adjectives to describe themselves, they need to hear it from other people first - then it becomes an observed quality of character.
@@ghostratsarah No it was not. It was always standard label for unassertive guys that are too polite to succeed mainly in sports but was adopted for the romantic relationships later.
Theres also no shame in benefiting from good behavior. I was at a hardware store I worked at on a day off, and an old lady was shouting for help filling her tires with air and no one was stopping to help her. I stopped filled her tires, asked about her day, and even showed her how to place an online order at a restaurant she wanted to go to. Couple hours passed, and I had the idea to text my boss the story. Why, when promotions come around, it might help. I didnt help her with the intention of receiving a reward, I didnt even think of it at the time, and ive done many other things for altruisms sake. Sometimes you can use good to recieve good, and even hope that your good is matched, but the problem comes with the expectation and entitlement to a reward. Do good for the good of it, and its ok to hope for it to be given back to you, but dont feel entitled to it.
What? You *texted* this to your boss *specifically* for potential benefit? That's odd. I'm kinda putting you down here (myself not being nice) but it might be worth reflecting why you did that, and why this startled me as a reader so much.
If you do something good and you get rewarded without looking for it, then good for you. But actively looking for a reward after doing something good, that's the problem
If I were your boss and you'd randomly text me this story I'd definitely make sure not to promote you when time comes. Makes you come off as weird at best and manipulative at worst.
@@JingLan69 Yeah I'm a boss and I love when I hear nice things about my employees from other people, but when it comes from them it literally goes in one ear and out the other. Not saying they don't genuinely do a good job, but it just comes across as insincere.
I wish every guy could see this. Obviously not for me, a guy, but as a third party I see a lot of nice guys pretending to be selfless towards people I know to get something out of it. It annoys the crap out of me. Often it also ends with them throwing a tantrum if they don't end up getting what they think deserve to get from being nice.
Yeah, no. When you’ve been so selfless for so long that people take it fir granted and don’t appreciate the time and energy you put into helping them, sacrificing your own well-being along the way, you start to give a shit whether people actually notice. I’m not a doormat. You don’t get to keep taking advantage of my genuine kind acts endlessly and then turn around and accuse me of seeking praise or repayment to avoid admitting your own selfishness.
But how does that apply to dating when the whole point is to "get the girl/guy"? To elaborate: She could easily perceive the genuine kindness as just that, and things won't move forward. How do you avoid that?
Then the real problem comes in with, "what do people want?" and does it coincide with your goals and wants? This kind of phrases it like wanting something from someone else is a bad thing, it's not entirely a bad thing, but using it as manipulation is a negative thing, it's "nice, but it's actually a venomous trap." as opposed to "we can work together to achieve something we are both lacking." It's an oddity in perception to be sure.
I disagree there is very few people who are completely good in such a way, that no matter how people behave towards them will still act kindly to them. And there is also very few people who I would considere "nice guys" who only act good to a person to receive something from them. There is big portion of people who act kindly to others and never expect anything in return from any specific person, but they still can get angry and act out, if all that is ever returned to them for their kind behavior is abuse of their willingness to help, scorn, neglect, etc.
Don’t aim for authenticity. That’s faking it. Just be who you are on the outside as you are on the inside - that’s authenticity. It’s not even about being quantifiably “good” or “nice”, it’s about matching your actions and words and being not being ashamed of who you are. Chances, you’re an inherently good person on the inside, just let that show. That’s authenticity, not doing what you think is nice or good so that people will admire or some shit. This is what “be yourself” is about.
What about people who don’t feel so good about themselves? Surely they’ve got to hide it at least to a degree, otherwise people won’t want anything to do with them because they’re always a soppy downer
Nah, some people are just nice and don't expect anything in return. This demonization of nice guys is just women trying to rationalize their romantic preference for dark triad types.
If they were nice or good, and didn't expect anything it return it wouldn't bother them that they "finish last". They do expect something in return. Which is human nature to some extent, but we can't pretend they're all good selfless guys. They're guys who thought if they said something nice or bought a gift then the person they're pursuing might like them more. They didn't say the nice thing or buy the gift purely out of kindness. Women love pure acts of kindness, from anyone. It's very sweet. But they're very rare these days, even from other women.
@@MySimDiedYou are told as a kid that girls like when you are “nice” though lol. They give you the expectation of being rewarded for just being nice. And if you’re self aware you very quickly realize that isn’t the case. Its so corny to harp on “nice” guys as if they’re some evil manipulator masterminds lol.
But then they're authentic and people are like "eeew, no, no, no, what the fuck, get outta here!" Then they go back to being fake 🤣 I remember Ted Bundy talking about this, "I don't show emotion and people are like 'see, he has no emotions', then I show emotion and people are like 'look, he is angry, he is a monster'. Seems like I can't win", or something along those lines, this is paraphrased.
@pwh5805 I'm comparing guys and girls who have learned through the person they loved the most and identified the most that they'd only be appreciated by proxy when they look "good" to other people and put up a façade, and not for who they are or were, in fact, they were metaphorically hit in the head when they tried to be authentic; and this pattern kept playing on and being reinforced throughout life by other people for other reasons (usually because other people can't tolerate the kinds of thoughts and feeling they have when they actually do express it). In the end all they know is to put up a different persona to each person they meet, but hardly ever they know who they are, so there's no sense of authenticity they can point to, except shame, guilt, fear, rage and hatred, and they hate that, and they hate themselves, so they also hate everyone else. Bundy is a severely extreme case, but the notion holds true across the board. The first shall be last and the last first, if we don't learn to accept and embrace people to some capacity, without condoning or rewarding their bad behaviour, as a society, they'll keep behaving badly and just keep hiding it.
@Outstanding_Gal Why do you believe I have an obsession with Bundy? Have I shown an obsession for Bundy the other times we have met? Just for clarity? Edit: jfc stands for "jesus fucking christ", apparently, not "just for clarity"
@Outstanding_Gal You don't know? That's ok. If you don't know, you don't really wanna claim someone does something, right? This is the only time I have quoted him, to make a point that makes sense in context. You can reread the post if you want to
I know I'm a manipulative narcissist. My intentions are good, however I delude myself with that fact, but the overall reason is to get something I want or an outcome I want. I'm forcing myself to question all my actions now by asking myself, 'am I doing this or saying these things from a genuine place for the sake of being a good person or do I subconsciously or intentionally want something from this person?' I am trying to be accountable for that flaw in my personality and become more self-aware. I have a lot of work still to accomplish that task.
political framing always seems to lose the meat of a subject in biasses. no one does anything for a non self-centric reason. no one does anything without a benefit to them. ie in your example of volunteering many do it because it makes them feel good in some way. what you are calling "nice guy" sounds more like being deceptive and false to get something i'm tired of your political framing and biases ruining your content. goodbye
Holding open a door has never been anything but polite and I don't know anyone who will object to that. I feel this is another "you can't walk past a woman at the gym without her making allegations" thing which no one actually objects to outside of social media. Saying hello to someone is a little more complex because that can be creepy, depending on the setting. Society doesn't really encourage saying hello to strangers anymore, rightly or wrongly and so how the other person is going to react is a mixed bag. I don't mind it personally but if I'm walking a street alone or something I always feel like its a prelude to getting mugged. Simply because many times it is.
I feel like the people who are kind instead of nice do the same thing but just indirect, they'll get the relationship because they are more distant and patient but they know that will give them a higher chance, there's no reason to engage in something without knowing there will be an outcome. Being absolutely selfless is beautiful but no one achieves it even if they try.
I had this conversation with a coworker recently
“If you go along to get along to get ahead and the people you’re trying to please don’t give you what you want in return, how do you feel about yourself?
At least be true to your principles because even if they don’t get you what you want, you can at least rest assured knowing you didn’t compromise yourself or your beliefs. “
Great job! Do you suppose that your coworker assumed you meant for him to stay true to his principals, or to his principles?! 😬
Beautiful!
@@gregoryfriston7091 lmao I fixed my now obvious error - stupid homophones 😂
Sometimes I won't accept positive scenarios because I would rather die my own life
What do you mean?
"You care more about being good than DOING good!"
-Yuri
Yuri?
Yuri from red alert2 xdddd
from Man 2
the sequel to Man
Citrus?
no its yuri from tales of vesperia
My dad, a volunteer firefighter for 20+ years, taught me the key difference between selflessness and being a nice guy. Obviously, he represented the first one. He spent days and days of his life putting himself in danger for his community. He always told me he only did it because it was the right thing to do, and he never wanted anything in return for it, not even a pat on the shoulder. He put his money where his mouth was. I credit that with helping me become the person I am now.
Sounds like a stand up guy with a great lesson
you dad is great person dude
"He never wanted anything in return"
Well he still wanted to get his salary every month, right?
Just kidding😂
@@texanplayer7651 volunteer
But suppose your dad met your mom while rescuing her from a fire. Suppose someone then said, "oh he did that because he likes her". People can be complex. Your choice of attraction may be someone you're being nice too, to impress and at the same time, you're just as nice to other people for no reason at all, just by nature. This is not against your dad, but just in general.
it's not a girl that can fix me... it's Dr K
No, it's you that can fix yourself, with the advices of Dr. K
@@alixvapphe's like the angel on your shoulder that encourages you and cheers you up
That's gay bro
UwU
@@nakolhira3952 is it gay to consult a therapist?
This is actually really helpful, I always get stuck in thought cycles of like "am i trying to get something out of this or am I just worried I'm not acting genuinely". I'll keep being me, it's their fault if they believe otherwise
Yeah I am the same, I keep paralyzing myself by thinking about my motivations of my actions, but I really should just start doing good, regardless of my motivations or if other people notice.
Being a good person is just me being impulsive. My actions sometimes get misinterpreted as flirting and that makes it weird. But I'm not responsible for how people misinterpret my actions.
True statement here.@@thisisntallowed9560
When I was younger I had no idea what authenticity was or who I was, if this is you just stop following other people and focus on following your desires while casting out external judgement
Yeah the trouble with being yourself kinda messages is people always assume it means do what you want then when people say something it's their fault and their issues.
"If they don't see it, they don't see it"
That's a nice line.
No, That's a GOOD line
;) ;) ;) ;)
"if you have to try and convince people you're a good person, you're probably not that good of a person"
the more I know
People try to convince other people that they're a woman.....
personally i know im a bad person but in a way i know that showing myself as a good person is going to help me become one idk if im explaining myself
more often that not delusions become reality, if you live thinking you're a great person, you'll most likely be. this doesn't mean whoever that you should expect things in return, one needs the capacity to self-analyze
@@sahalhabib6361 not the same...
Finally somebody is pointing out the difference between being “nice”, and being genuinely good. Too few people are aware of the difference.
@@adsafgasgasdfasdfthe difference you point out is key to me. Hoping something good happens vs expecting that something good will happen is the important part. I think it can be fine to hope for a good outcome for you when doing a good act. The problem in my eyes is if you are only acting good for the sake of that outcome, that to me is fake goodness based on selfish desires.
@@adsafgasgasdfasdf That doesn't make sense. For the person who is stuck, the motive makes the difference exactly because the reaction afterwards is different. If I know someone only helps me to demand my number afterwards and maybe even threaten or insult me, I'd rather not get his help in the first place and call someone or wait for a kind person to help.
And in this clip it's also about guys who complain that women don't go for the nice guys and/or that a woman doesn't fall in love with someone just because he is nice to her. It's ironic that the "nice guys" are the manipulative ones that don't (want to) understand that they aren't the good ones if they are only nice/friendly with people who they want something from.
Yea, being nice means they have some rational ability. Being good means they can take abuse, so society values them more.
@@adsafgasgasdfasdf I’d agree, however, for your own sanity, it’s best that the motivation be at least mixed - if you don’t get the number and that was your only motivation, you might say “oh well, at least I tried,” but you still are more likely to be disappointed than the person who can say “at least I helped her”
Problem is that others often can't see the difference, yup
The problem I'm facing is that, if you just do good things enough times, people will stop being thankful. Don't get me wrong, I love helping others, be it a friend, family, or just a random person on the street. I don't expect money, love, admiration, or praise in return, but not getting a simple "thank you" after just helping a family member move, driving a friend to the airport, stuff like that, it's frustrating.
I may just have had bad luck in the past, but it sometimes seems like you need to expect something back for people to value your efforts and time, be it money or them helping you out with something in return. It is frustrating if you're being taken for granted by people, who in turn get mad when you can't be there for them because you struggle with something yourself.
Helping out is nice, but learning to set boundaries is important too.
Honestly man I struggle with that too. But it’s important to remember that just because you don’t always get a “thank you” doesn’t mean they aren’t thankful. Your friend probably couldn’t have moved without you. Your parents might not have had time to cook dinner or take the garbage cans out. It’s appreciated because the difference you make is FELT
@@sportmaniac10 That's true! There's been times where I totally forgot to thank people and realize I never did. I hate when that happens because I feel like a self centered d*ck or I think "oh they know I'm thankful" and I don't worry about it (but I could be totally wrong what they think). But if I'm thankful for someone, they'll usually see it more so in my actions than my words I think. I'm just kinda socially awkward.
But, yeah, at the same time be aware if it's a constant occurrence of someone not showing you respect and walking all over you. It's not selfish to realize you're being taken advantage of and stopping it. Treat people how you want to be treated and if you don't get it in return EVER, then I say leave.
You're already going about it wrong. If you love helping others, then help others. Full stop. If you even expect a thank you, then you're not doing it out of selflessness, you're doing it for praise, even if it's a small part of you and even if it's a small thing to ask for, it's still asking for something in return regardless. Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, every time, even if people don't value your efforts, because in the end their evaluation of you means nothing. It's perfectly fine to want your efforts to be appreciated, but to be truly humble, you must be accept that people might never appreciate you, but still help them anyway because it's more important to be helpful than to be appreciated.
@@Banzo_ Yes, you said exactly what I was looking for here! People might not always thank you with their words, but their actions will always show you how they feel, and it's up to you to be perceptive enough to realize that sometimes people are just socially awkward or have difficulty expressing gratitude because of inner flaws they themselves are struggling with. Everyone is on their own journey, and sometimes that also means letting your paths diverge if they just don't align anymore. In the end, you're still helping them even by cutting them off, because in doing so you take away an opportunity for them to perpetuate the cycle of taking advantage of others, and hopefully from there, they can find a way to grow.
You have a point, help people who will help you back or appreciate your help. It's not worth your time and effort helping someone who is emotionally distant or self-centered. It is better to have 5 good people around you than 50 acquaintances.
Most self-centered people today are not ignorant instead they are deliberately that way. Your generosity is not going to change them for better, maybe be even for worse.
Help someone 3 times at most and then decide if they are worth it. We don't have infinite resources. Use pareto principle here too. Top 20 percent of your friends will lead to 80 percent of your social and emotional support.
Everyone expects something in return. Even my mom expects respect. It's not bad to expect something back. The problem is pretending you're doing something for no reason or pretending you don't want anything, then getting upset when you don't get what you want. The problem is being fake.
Exactly this
The difference, though, is expecting something *from other people* as opposed to expecting something *for yourself* regardless of other people's expectations.
If you expect you will feel better about yourself for a job well done, that's between you and yourself.
the difference is that expecting kindness after you give kindness is normal. that's how human society should work. but expecting romance after you give kindness is creepy. imagine if a gay guy expected romance from a straight man just because he held the door for him lol
There's a difference between expecting the gratification of making someone happier, and expecting 🐱🐱🐱
@@readyaimfire3454but most women know this and lead men on. No way to know someone's gay if they don't tell it.
How many women do things for other Women that simps do
I'm a nice guy because I was ostracized as a kid for reasons outside of my control. Which made me anti-social and compounded into more issues as time went on. Eventually, I learned to make it go the other way, and turn it into a strength. I knew on a deeper level what made people likable without even trying to be likable. Not faking it, being yourself, not caring what others think. And I became a genuinely nicer and stronger person thanks to it. I turned my childhood trauma into a strength. All the fights, heated arguments, troubled home, it gave me an edge against people who had everything handed to them and are simply nice since its convenient to them. I'm nice for deeper reasons now and when I'm going through a hard time, it won't change me or my opinions. I'm unapologetically myself even through the hard times as a result.
The problem is that many people don't know how to live authentically, because they don't know themselves very well. They put on masks, try to fit into roles they think society wants them to play and honestly, who could blame them?
But it is so liberating to be yourself. To live life according to your own values, set goals for yourself, find the right kind of allies etc. But for that to happen you have to put the little authentic things on display and experience life through them. Try out new hobbies, engage in social interactions in new ways, change jobs etc. and see how it feels, if it aligns with your values and who you are and want to be.
Then accept where you stand and make changes accordingly. Maybe you are not as healthy/unhealthy, ambitious/lazy, smart/inept etc. as you thought you were. So now you can actually work on that.
People will recognize when you do things because it serves you on your journey to become the best version of yourself and not just to "get" something.
Being authentic sounds so like trivial to me for some reason. I've been putting on a fake front around people for so long mainly because I want to fit in and be liked that I don't even know who I am anymore and its terrible how do you start to understand yourself more and your values because I don't want to live like this anymore
Honestly it is far from trivial. It can be the hardest thing you do in your life. Part of it is called "shadow work" for a reason as it involves looking at all the things you DON'T accept about yourself. There are a lot of techniques you can use and especially questions you can ask yourself. And believe me, as a life coach myself, that is a hard sell for people/the brain over going with the flow, masking etc. Until it is not feasible anymore and you go directly from "barely functioning" to "therapy for years". And everyone else that tells you otherwise, by "reading your aura" or "change everything with this one simply method", is not interested in improving your life.
But here it goes: If you find yourself at a point in life where you had enough of doing what you describe, start with this question first: "What is important to me?" or "What are my values?". There are tons of lists with values you can go through online. I recommend picking one with between 40 to 60 values and then, by gut feeling, cross out half of those that you find not as important. Repeat until you have about 10. Those are your most important values. Then start by picking 1 to 3 of those you think need the most improvement in your life. Look for habits e.g. if kindness is important to you but you find it lacking in your life, get in the habit of greeting people with a smile regardless of how you feel, or start donating something, or pick a person in your life that deserves more kindness and do something for them etc. Obviously depends on the value what habits might fit.
After/while you do this "value work", and there are certainly more nuances to that than I can describe here, start to ask "Who am I?" (personality, big 5) "What am I capable of?" (skills, resources, allies) "What do I want?" (goals, wishes, obgliations, needs, passions, obsessions etc.) and "How do I feel?" (emotional regulation).
Make an inventory of yourself so to speak and go from there. Nonetheless, also keep in mind that in some cases, like depression, borderline or other conditions that affect your emotions and sense of self, it might be a good idea to tackle those first before going into a self-discovery journey. Or at least have a qualifed professional along for the ride.
In any case I hope you can find some inspiration in this and I wish you the best on your personal journey. As they say, it's precisely the most difficult things that are worth going through. As someone that had to go through depression, social anxiety and more, I can attest to that.
@@LiveLearnGame Thank you for that comment I appreciate you taking the time to write all that. I'm going to start doing this by it up bringing up with my therapist who has like you said to guide me🙏
@@bananaspilt1988 You're welcome and sounds like there's already a plan in the back of your mind that you just might not see as such, but trust that instinct. The first step you have already in front of you! Best of luck!
@@LiveLearnGame Yes you are right it's really fear that holds me back more of fear of the unknown but I definitely know on the other side I will be better and stronger and more glad I took that step💪
That “if you feel like you don’t convey authenticity but you want to it’s because you want to get something out of being authentic” is something I really needed to hear, I’ve been trying to be “authentic” after not being authentic for a while but man I keep doing the same thing, thank you Dr. K
Maybe you also find this thought helpful: Focusing on getting what you want, makes you worry about your behavior and ties your happiness to outcomes. But authenticity comes from knowing yourself which fosters a deeper, inner contentment. So focus on getting to know yourself better, your values, personality, capabilities, emotions and goals. Because then your behavior will automatically - to some degree at least - start to align with those things. Good luck on that journey!
I'm so happy for u bro, you're doing great and will only keep doing better when you keep your mind open like this.
@@LiveLearnGamewhat do you do if you don’t know who you are? What about the millions of teenagers who haven’t even come close to figuring out who they even are yet?
I got the same question as a teenager.@@theonlyjoe_
@@theonlyjoe_ I think its not about "who you are", but rather "who you want to be".
You dont really "find yourself". There is nothing to find. You may only take what is given to you and try to make the best you can with that. But it must be something YOU want make - any answer from the outside will always turn shallow.
This. 💯
Big difference between nice and kind. Nice tends to be disingenuous and usually ends up being resentful.
Kind has healthy boundaries and respect.
How do you balance this though with e.g. you do something helpful for someone, and you expect them to at least acknowledge it or appreciate it. I understand doing things without expecting anything in return, but wouldn’t it feel bad to not be acknowledged at all?
You are right about them being different words with different meanings. Nice is usually used to mean pleasant. But nice can be used as an alternative to kind. I have heard people genuinely call someone kind a nice person. Nice is by default, a positive word meant to convey positivity, not a negative one.
It's just nowadays the ridiculous "nice person" term has started to abused that.
@@Playdoeeread the sermon on the mount
@@Playdoee Expecting acknowledgement is still expecting something in return.
And to be clear, there's nothing inherently wrong with occasionally expecting something in return *as long as you clearly communicate that expectation*.
The trouble starts when you put on airs like you're being selfless when your true desire is to be acknowledged or loved in return.
I'm the kind of guy who would say "I may not be perfect, because I'm just like everyone else on this planet. Trying to get by, working at a job, paying my bills, putting food on the table, and just trying to survive to live another day. But I will try my best to help others who needed it the most. And at the same time, i will not bullsh- you just to get what I want. Because I've learned that I'm the only person who can reward myself and expect nothing from anyone else."
"Stop trying to convey authenticity, just be authentic." Golden words of wisdom
That authenticity bit was impactful to me; somehow knowing that makes it easier. I don't need to prove I'm authentic ... hmmm
This is just pondering based on your comment, not life advice; You prove your being authentic by not being not-authentic. That's the most authentic way. If you try to assure someone you are, or explain how you are and what your goals are, you'll become suspicious. If someone interprets you wrong, that is not your fault, it is on them. You did what you could.
You may still need to prove you're authentic. If it matters to you that people understand you, you may want that. You may sense that the other person thinks you are not authentic. I think this guy is trying to be smart but the world is more nuanced.
@@peterc4082but you prove that you're being authentic by SHOWING your authentic self all the time, not by SAYING you're being authentic or by trying to CONVINCE people you're being authentic.
that's what he's saying in the video (and what I'm saying to you)
same. i always feel like i have something to prove to other people, which just keeps the loop going, it's always for something else outside of me
When I ask myself "what I want" the only thing I know for certain is that I don't want what others want for me.
This motivates me. I want to be authentic to myself so freaken bad!
I'm in the middle of this right now. I have a friend who's going through a rough time, and I try to be helpful and encouraging. Sometimes I doubt myself and think, "What are you trying to get out of this?" When really I'm just trying to do right by someone.
Update: The friend I was supporting is in an abusive marriage and is working on getting out of it. I was just trying to be there for her, but as we got to know each other better, we've actually come to love each other. Life is funny like that.
You are trying to help your friend and feel good after doing something good. Don't let buzzwords ruin your natural human instincts.
Hope yall doing well three weeks down the line.
You have a responsibility to take care of yourself before others, like outtin gon your O2 mask before others in an airplane. It's ok to do good with the intention that you get something out of it. Those things can exist at the same time.
What makes it "manipulation" or being a "nice guy" is when you do things and immediately assume you are owed the nice thing back. It becomes manipulative when you aren't clear about your intentions, rather than asking directly.
Holy shit that’s good advice. Conveyance of authenticity has to be authentic - ie, up to interpretation and possibly misinterpretation.
It's not like good guys have to be pure angels. They can want something in return too. The key difference is that the good guy hopes for the best and accepts the outcome, while the nice guy expects a reward and gets upset when their expectations aren't met.
100%
Not what he's saying here. He says that the good guy must be selfless and neutral, while the manipulator is someone who wants to get something out of his behaviour from someone else.
And you must be a good guy with balls. No one wants a good guy that can’t be assertive.
For real, if I ever catch someone complaining that their life isn’t fair on the basis of “But I’m soooooooo NICE!” I genuinely run as far away from them as possible, because that’s a manipulator waiting to spawn in.
I think you're missing the point. Your comment is about the difference between the way a nice guy and good guy reacts after they've done a helpful action. The nice guy gets upset and and the good guy does not get upset by the undesired outcome. You basically just said nice guys and good guys both expect something in return, but the good guys just handle the undesired outcome better. They're both still selfish, but they react differently.
This video is about difference between a nice and a good guy's expectations behind their actions, one being more selfless and the other more selfish. "Good" guys don't expect or want something in return for doing something helpful for others, but if they do get something out of it, they're grateful for it. "Nice" guys go into the situation expecting or wanting something in return by default, and they're only content when they get what they want in return.
Also, he didn't say good guys were "pure angels," and he never said people never want anything in return ever. There will always be instances where getting something in return should be expected. That's how business transactions work, which doesn't require someone to be a good person.
Being concerned with authenticity; for me it stems from not wanting to be taken the wrong way. It's out of fear. I'm being authentic but I also don't want someone to take me the wrong way and then berate me or something along those lines.
The "struggle to convey authenticity" is something I ask myself since I tend to be highly empathetic and can understand if someone has trust issues. It's like...no, I'm not trying to get anything out of our relationship, I'm genuinely concerned for your wellbeing and want to make sure you're okay. Usually my fears are unfounded but I have had people take advantage of my kindness and it's not a fun experience, makes me feel like I had screwed up by smothering them.
For most of my life I have struggled to get a normal relationship with a girl/woman. I had started to think there’s something wrong with them, without realizing there’s something wrong with me. But I guess I had made choices that had lead me up to this day, even if it isn’t favorable or even what I actually wanted.
I had eventually learned from my mistakes. However I am still single despite the revelations.
My tip for you is to just remain being authentic. Eventually people realize you are the way you are.
People with trust issues tend to prefer a few things in a friendship or any kind of relationship that might not seem intuitive to someone without trust issues:
Primarily, understanding when they just need some space and time. And importantly, you can’t go making assumptions with them - that goes wrong really quickly and you’ll rapidly find yourself at square one again. You have to let them drive, cook or dictate the pace. That’s the kindest thing you can do for them because it demonstrates that you have understanding and empathy without needing to bombard them with kindness. They don’t want or need pity, just understanding and patience.
I can relate, hard. The moment you stop being the one you care. They distance themselves from you HARD. Which has to do with multiple factors
Good people are good because of learned behaviour. They do get something out of it. That just isn't something the other person actively gives them.
For example they might do it just to see the ohter person smile. They are not receiving anything or wordly value but they do get a lot of satisfaction out of it.
That's quite superficial. Sometimes you're good because it's the good thing to do.
@@peterc4082 That is the learned behaviour I was talking about.
@@jasperzanovich2504 I don't think that's learned behaviour. Learned behaviour would be a kind of automatism. If you make the decision to do something because it's the moral thing to do, it's not a learned behaviour. I may not get anything out of this moral behaviour. I think you're reducing everything to simple motive. I don't think that's quite right. I think learned behaviour would be something like automatically looking right or left when approaching a pedestrian crossing. If you know something is good and you do so, I don't think that's learned behaviour. I suppose it's because you learned what the moral behaviour is and then choose to pursue it. I can also learn that it's good to not take advantage of another, but I may decide to do it anyway. I think your approach reduces things too much and simplifies it and at the end gives pure nihilism. It's false and dangerous. It removes the decision from the person. And sometimes doing good is actually punishing and goes against motive. In fact there may be no tangible benefit from making the correct choice.
This is one of the best shorts I've seen from this channel to date
Simply doing something out of kindness, not caring if it’s seen or not, is for me what makes it a virtue.
As a Good Guy I Accept This 100% Apology.
U could buy a chips packet with 40 rupees here
@@1Neck913 yes your right
Incredibly well put!
I’d rather not be disappointed, people pursue what they want there is no shame in that. Not trying at all & being another adult’s caretaker for no reason is a waste of time. Give, see how they react, keep or move on, simple.
I think that's more than fine and I think we all do it. The big issue is just being honest about what it is. You're not being nice, you're pursuing what you want and using and manipulating whatever you can to get it. Which is fine. But there's a lot of guys who do this then genuinely perceive themselves as being nice or good. They do these grand gestures purely with the aim of getting something out of it. When they don't get what they want they genuinely believe it's wrong that they didn't because they were so "nice". Like on the pill websites, every single guy thinks he's a good guy, yet they're almost all assholes who never did anything selfless in their lives.
I needed to hear this. A guy I rejected a year ago kept being my friend, BEST friend dare I say, I genuinely thought we could keep being friends bcs he was the one person I trusted more than anyone and he prob knows everything about me, but when I got a boyfriend, he became condescending and rude towards me and seems to have no interest in being my friend anymore, it genuienly broke my heart because I thought we would always have each others backs. But I realize he kept up the frienship with ulterior motives this entire time.
Oof that hurts just reading, poor guy..
@@reishinsama yeah, genuienly, I do feel bad for him.
Bruh he made his move, and you assumed he actually was okay after this? so you could continue to use what he provided (probably paid for you as well). There is no way for us to know for sure if you've presented the whole story and didn't alter it to make yourself look good and him look bad.
He's a simp and hopefully he learned not to be simp ever again.
@@mind-blowing_tumbleweed Nope didn't assume, I knew after I rejected him our friendship might be over bcs that's usually what happens so was preparing myself for the worst back then and giving him space, but he kept up the friendship and I was happy to do so with him. Wouldn't gain anything from altering the story in a space where you simply share your expereince.
And I like to pay for my own things. 🤷♀I'm not from a place where the men are expected to pay for everything.
@@swr5945word of advice. If a guy says they like you and still wants to be friends, they’re just playing the long game. Feelings don’t go away unless you do something that hurts him and doesn’t make him like you anymore (in this case it was you finding someone else). But guys who say they want to still be friends are lying.
Source: I am that person, though I don’t wish to be. I’ll admit I don’t deal with rejection well even after all the times I’ve had it happen.
Just do good and be good...because YOU want to.
This is a great point! When you don't know what you're doing you end up trying to be something you aren't. I fell into this trap long ago, when I stopped caring what other people think of me things worked themselves out.
Edit 1: This also includes those you truly care about, act like a free-range chicken, without allowing yourself to be used like one.
When I lie people believe me, but when I am honest people claim I am lying.
Who cares, keep being you. The people that matter will learn to believe you.
@@Dimitris_Half not always, I've been so earnest in the past that people assume I was lying or being manipulative. Lots of people just have trust issues from their past and are sceptical of others.
People like pretty lies over uncomfortable truths
Be careful about generalizing the results of honesty. You can't learn much from people who have trust issues. Your life will suck if you lie because that is all extra work: you have to be consistent with any lie you tell. Tell the truth when you decide to speak.
Last thing. Actions don't lie. Do the right thing consistently.
@@Dimitris_HalfApparently you know every detail about their life. Amazing ability. You must be like a psychic wizard er somethin!
Something I noticed about guys that will tell you a lot what nice guys they are, is they usually aren't when you get to know them. When they don't get what they want, they get angry and bitter real fast. Genuinely good men don't crow about it. They don't tell you what great men they are. They just do good in the world and will help whenever they can, and they don't screw anyone over. They don't have to tell you what good men they are, because consistent actions show you that they are.
I don't even think it's bad to expect something in return, that's only natural and to be expected most times. The problem is when you get mad at the person for not reciprocating especially when they didn't ask for your help to begin with.
If you're a mature good person you do 'nice' things when you can afford it because that's best for you and people or *just not do it* if you can't. If the other person gives back that's preferred but if they don't it's ok you did it mainly cause you could and it's the best to do, the other person response is secondary.
Plus If you only do good things when a equivalent reward is guaranteed...you won't do good things often or at all lol
"there's no UNselfish good deeds." - Joey Tribbiani every good deed you do will always be to benefit you as much or more than the person the good deed was for.
Be a “nice guy” simply cuz you care about people. Through empathy and compassion.
More technical: you’ve felt pain, and it sucks. Through empathy, you can imagine how it might feel for other people to be in pain and you don’t like that. Thus you try to reduce their pain. Same, but opposite, goes for joy and happiness
Basically: A nice guy will act in their own self interest while a good/kind guy will act in your best interests. A nice guy may validate your bad behavior while a good guy will call you out and tell you to improve. Been saying this for years. Nice to see Dr. K drop a short on it.
Another important point is that a good guy almost implicitly can not be a soft guy.
I do good because I want to do good, but I'm not a pushover, the issue is that "nice guys" will claim to be good guys, then complain when they either sacrificed too much, don't set strong boundaries, or have unrealistic expectations, often some combination of the three.
If I CHOOSE to help out someone at my own expense, hypothetically, and then the cost of the sacrifice is slightly heavier than expected but still what I volunteered for, I'm NOT going to place ANY blame on the person I'm trying to help.
There's also the differences between being nice and being good, and the differences between being passive and being peaceful.
A passive person will LET things happen to them, a peaceful person will do everything in their power to improve their situation and those of others around them, WITHOUT stepping on the free will of others.
All good people are nice, but not all nice people are good, and the only correlation between passiveness and peacefulness is how it appears on the outside sometimes.
That only applies to the ideal.
This is a great explanation!
@@Dimitris_Halfhaha until you get your kindness taken advantage of
@@Dimitris_Half I didn’t say anything about narcissism, I was just saying there’s downsides to being nice
@@redgreen2453 There's not downsides to being nice, there's downsides to acting weak. That's the main point I'm making.
It's not kindness to give into pressure and enable someone's bad behavior for example.
In order to truly be kind, or "nice", you need boundaries, without boundaries, there can be no kindness.
It's the difference between charity and robbery. You can't take anything from me that I'm not willing to give.
But I'll give it to you because it's what I want to do.
Thanks i needed this
Yes! You're allowed to be sad and frustrated if you don't get the social return you're hoping for, that's a normal emotional response, but the point is to not go around thinking you're "owed" it and that people who don't give it to you are being unfair and withholding your rights.
Yes this. When you help someone and its not really acknowledged you get a bit of a hmm okay feeling, and that's perfectly fine. As long as you don't take that feeling too seriously
@@Superhero-Motivationso I guess sensitive people are fucked then lmao
This is genuinely the best relationship advise I've ever received as I'm normally the one giving the advise. I've liked this girl a while and was wondering how to be there for her without being a "nice guy". Now I realize I was never a nice guy. Because I don't expect a relationship out of it, I just want to be there for someone when they need me and if I want a relationship I can do so GENUINELY and with thought and effort. Thank you
True, Im only nice because it make life easy.
Also makes me feel good once in awhile.
So you're searching for something ;-)
It's not a critic, its delusional to think that we can act not expecting smething in return. In ethology there is a thing called delayed altruism. We are not altruistic for nothing, we expect to gain something in return, even unconsciously.
It can be egotic (I'm a good person), moral (i did the right thing), or even to avoid negative feelings (if i'm not good, i'll feel guilty), or selfesteem (I have no value so being good is the least that I can do, especially to avoid rejection).
@@Kupperdurden Yes im admitting Im not a good guy but a nice guy.
@@BreatheManuallyThat's not my point though. My point is that to divide niceness it two different categorize is a nonsense.
There is not such is as good guys in the definition of "someone being nice with no interrest or benefits".
We always have an interrest. Not always material, but always one. When a parent take care of its children, he favorize the perpetuation of its genes, even if its not aware of that.
We don't always calculate or premeditate our niceness but we are always searching for some "reward".
I don't think it's a good thing to segmentize it in two binary box. Life is always complexe and made of shades of grey.
So I was not criticizing you in anay manner, on the contrary.
@@Kupperdurden Its kinda hard to disprove though, so I kinda disagree.
But I would say as long as there is no conscious thought in the rewards of your actions, I would categorize it as "good".
So its between conscious want for reward and unconscious want (if its even provable in all cases) for a reward; whether it is just fulfilling a role or some primal desire to do good for some people.
@@BreatheManuallyYou consider that if you're conscious of some forces that drives you, that change your category?
That quite limits categorization. First of, that evolve. Secondely, not everyone that does good to seduce for example is aware of it.
Awareness is a mesurement but not the only one. If I go see a therapist and if makes me conscious of that, it change my categozy and therefore the morality of it?
The forces are still the same. You can't change what you are deepdown. Being nice is a way to seduce people (not in a pejorative way).
What if I'm nice because i think there is nothing other interresting or worth seeking for other people? If i'm not funny, smart or good looking, or rich (alll of those are also a way to seduce, in a sociological perspective)?
Can't I have the right to take advantage of what I have in my luggage?
Consciouness of your behavior is a sign that you introspect and a positive thing, it can't be held againnst you. Be aware of something can't make it bad by standards.
Especially because first, being aware doesn't give you power over it, secondly, because the motivation and the needs are important to consider the action.
When someone seduce someone, they always think about themselves, what the other can bring to the table, not the other way around.
PS : Sorry for all the grammar and voccabulary mistakes, i'm not fluent in english.
My mom always said to me that if I wanted to give someone something or help them to do it because I wanted to and not to expect a reward or nothing of people...
nice and kind are two different things the best explanation i have heard is that the west cost is nice they ask if you are having a bad day and say aw that sucks i hope you have a better one without trying to help, but the east coast is kind they will make fun of you and be rude but if you need help they will help you you WILL hear about it as they are helping you though.
not quite just east coast vs west coast, but you're exactly right. Coconuts and peaches.
Dude, you rock, you touch the matter where it needs to be touched (weird? maybe) and it changes everything!
I can't recall how many times I've heard "yeah I like to think I'm a good/nice person" from people who have shown nothing but disrespect to other people. Lol. I remember one vividly, he was a man child still living with his parents at damn near 30 playing guild wars 2 and he kept pressuring me to believe he was a good person. He was not. Bro legit laughed at the suicide of his friends wifes friend.
Might be his natural response to suffering. Sone people tend to laugh instead of crying as a coping mechanism
@CR-rm4iy Obviously you know your brother better than me, some rando on the internet, but kinda sounds to me like that worked on him not because he believed he was a good person, but because he's worried that he's not. For a lot of people, when someone hits on our insecurities or uncomfortable truths is when it actually makes it through the armor
@@CR-rm4iy if he believed he was a good person you saying to the contrary would not trigger him
Did you buy your own house with your own money before you were 30 ?
@@Mytelefe You're completely missing the point
Around 7 months ago my friend at the time ended up breaking up with their boyfriend, he ended up cheating on her because he felt like she wasn't around enough even though it wasn't her fault. Afterwards I was the only person who reached out to make sure she was okay and eventually after us talking for a while we ended up getting together. I never intended for that to happen, admittedly I had feelings for her before I reached out and that's what caused me to in the first place but I never expected her to want to be with me because of me actually being a decent human being and making sure that she was okay, I guess that just goes to show how low the bar is four guys actually caring
I feel like every guy was a nice guy at least once in their lives
Sure, but there’s a difference between falling into that pattern and trying to be a manipulator.
Here’s the thing: Think about your reaction if a friend of yours goes on a date with someone and the first word they use to describe them is “nice” - you likely get a not particularly great picture of that person, best case scenario they’re just a bit bland. Worst case scenario they’re a user. But if a stream of other adjectives start flowing, then you get a much more interesting picture, and you can tell if that person has actually got an authentic personality or not. “Nice” in my book is just a polite way of calling someone “fake.”
I agree and disagree. Everyone at some point does something good expecting something in return, but that doesn't mean that it becomes a habit or a pattern of behavior. That's what a nice guy is. Someone who consistently does nice things in order to appear good, expecting it to benefit them. And they often get quite upset when it doesn't.
Nope. Some people were taught right, or had the right mindset from the jump.
"Do things because it's the right thing, not because you want something in return."
"Treat others to way you want to be treated."
yea
@@Un1234l those two don't go hand in hand .... If you treat someone the way you want to be treated... That's clearly motive .. 😂
You'll see this play out when people are being 'generous' or 'charitable'. Pretty quickly very clear who does and doesn't want / expect something in return.
My boyfriend I met 4 years ago is a good guy and acts even more selfless than me because he has great cooking skills that he uses to feed people who are poor/down and out and genuinely wants to. Since we aren't married yet, I see fake nice guys everywhere trying to downplay him to get to me and it looks so petty and immature like dude just because you flex and workout it doesn't mean I want to get with you 🙄
I've always liked guys with a little more squish because their hugs feel so much better than muscular shredded hugs.
you know muscles are not rock solid as a baseline, they're soft unless actively flexed.
@@omnissiah7247 its like a bit harder and denser than fat I think personal opinion idk
that's a solid point about conveying authenticity.
I tend to feel that if I have to tell people I'm "nice" I'm doing it wrong. So I let my actions apeak for me, because that's what'll happen anyway.
I don't seek rewards for being nice to others. Acknowledgment is more than enough.
If you don't mind, how do you "let your actions speak for me"?
I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I don't know how to socialize and I'm never in situations where I can show who I am (not that I even know how to since my upbringing has made me a "blank slate")
@@frankkennedy6388 there are a few different parts to this. There's social aspects, and just doing nice things (like helping a friend or parent with chores or other activities).
I'm very chatty, so I'll just start sharing my interests with others. This includes personal projects too, if I have one I'm working on. But I make sure to ask what they've been up to, or ask relevant questions, before I talk about myself or things I like.
Example:
Let's say I wrote a short story. I'd typically start with "Do you like to read?" then if the answer is yes, follow up with "what type of books do you read?"
If the answer is no, I ask why not, or what they think they'd enjoy reading.
The goal is to talk about what I want, while still letting them share what they'd like to share. So even if I control the conversation (I tend to do that), I'm still allowing them room to express themselves. The goal here, is they not only know they have input too, but that I value and consider it.
Now doing kind things varies greatly. I used to cook a lot of food, and I'd share it with my roommates. This was because I didn't want to buy glassware or Tupperware to store it, but I still wanted to cook. So I just shared it with my roommates.
Other times I'd make time to hang out with my friends. We did group activities like bowling or laser tag at the university, and I always made sure to attend.
These are some examples on how to show others you care. It's not exclusive to these of course, but keep in mind the three sections of commitment:
Time, attention, and energy.
Make sure at least two of these categories are being allocated per activity. And do not expect repayment. Sometimes it's nice, but always keep your expectations in check.
@@frankkennedy6388 when I get particularly chatty, I try to let the other person know I still value and appreciate their input. I ask questions about their interests before talking about mine.
I also make time for those around me, and try to attend hangouts or gatherings.
@@frankkennedy6388 UA-cam is deleting my replies for whatever reason
@@frankkennedy6388 just go about your life and don't do crappy things.
*the goal* is NOT to *gain relationships* out of however you're trying to be; *the goal* is to be a good, healthy person who is confident, who knows themself, who is happy as a person by themself, and who (by actual happenstance, not by trying to manipulate circumstances), will attract people to them, instead of repelling them with transactional "nice guy" behavior
The main times I end up trying to convey authenticity are when I’m actively trying to help someone
Cinema therapy has a great video on this topic!
I love their channel
HG nails it once again. I see a lot guys out there that need to take notes
Very serious advice: do NOT be selfless. Really, absolutely don't. You'll get exploited and thoroughly destroyed. A lot of people will find you, see you as a prey, and after you give everything they'll seek to destroy you so you cannot talk about it, and cannot give anything to anyone else.
It's very good to want specific things from relationships, be upfront about them once you think you can trust the person you're talking with (but don't let your guard down too quickly)
Always think of yourself, put boundaries, and as soon as someone try to overstep or trample them, kick the person out of your life and go full no contact. Even if they try to play the pity card. They will be merciless with you, don't let them have a inch of possibility to hurt you in the slightest. And cut ties with people who are in contact with them as well
What happened to you
@@RaK0 They knew a narcissist probably lol happened to me as well
Honestly both are just evolutionary to keep us alive
They also be the most unhinged people ever.
The most desperate people...
I'm both nice and good and I'm not expecting nothing in return.
I only want to be kind, generous and honest with people.
People complaining about being friendzoned are nice guys. Someone authentic understands that genuine love cannot be owed.
It's so weird living my life questioning myself on topics like this and then suddenly seeing a Dr.K video basically confirm my conclusions after (always only after 😅) I've figured it out on my own lol
well but "good" people also get something in return; the nice feeling of having helped someone, the thanks people give you, the way people look at you, etc
so because I don't receive enjoyment from helping others, I am therefore a bad person?
@Void-Knull
You are not obligated to help people. Our karma is our karma. If you see someone suffering, you can let them be with God😄
@@Void-Knull no that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that doing things for others is almost always if not always transactional, the reward just isn't necessarily something tangible. I do wonder though, if you do not receive any enjoyment out of helping people, but still help others, why do you do that?
It is only just that God set up a reward system for good behavior. Problem is, expecting the reward can corrupt us into doing the outwardly selfless thing for selfish reasons, trying to game the system. Whether a sacrifice was genuine is revealed by our reaction when we don't get the reward. That's what the story of Cain and Able is about.
I really despise that Santa Claus song where it mindlessly says "…so be good for goodness' sake" right after teaching children to be "good" for the reward's sake, not for the sake of genuine goodness. An effective way to raise fake people, I assume.
@@Void-Knulldid they say that?
I don’t think it matters whether you’re good or bad, whether you want something in return or not as long as you are actually nice and do good things which benefit others
Perfect explanation. Would good guy also sacrifice their time and what they would rather be doing to do something they understand is more important to someone or something else.
Of course! For the good if many!
I don't like the insane notion of thinking that if someone is getting something from doing something good it must mean they are basically evil.
Who tf said anything about that
The issue with nice guys isn’t that they benefit from kind actions, it’s when they feel entitled to those benefits
this explains so much to me, I would be willing to give my friends £200 for a holiday they're going on and I'm not going to. and i don't want anything from them, i just want them to be happy but ive always had these doubts of myself wondering if im a bad person for offering them this money (not a loan btw i don't want a single penny of that money back if it means they have fun, because their happiness means more to me than me having money)
The only thing wrong with giving them the money is if it hurts you or leads to them taking advantage of you.
I understand giving gifts, but $200 is a lot to take from someone even if there are no strings attached on your side. It seems like a risky cycle to get into and I think you should ask yourself why you truly feel the need to do that for them other than a vague hope that it will make them "happy". It would be more reasonable and more financially smart to, if you feel so inclined, give them something smaller such as snacks or sun screen. I've heard of some people getting trapped in a cycle of basically paying to maintain friendships, coming off as desperate/clingy, or even being easily manipulated by a bad friend in the group. Why is it not enough just to ask to see photos of their trip or have them stop by to talk about the trip with you?
@@haleyb6027 because i know my life is going nowhere so (as much as this sounds really inconsiderate), £200 is really nothing to me when im going to achieve nothing in life anyway
@@haleyb6027 because their happiness is worth more than £200 to me so id rather they had it than me, who's life is going nowhere and won't ever improve
Virtue signaling
Still working on this. Being good for being good and not for recognition of being good. Sometimes it works out sometimes it would be nice to know that someone else sees it. Then the extra layer of being good and still nothing happens.
I don't think that wanting something in return is always bad ; it depends how big this thing is and if you're going to keep being the same after getting it.
If you're nice to a girl and hope to get a date from this, then it isn't really bad. If your end goal is to have a relationship with her and get intimate with her, as long as you will keep loving her and being nice, and don't end up dumping her, then it really isn't that bad. I myself want to be nice, while having trouble to be nice because I do want things in return as well. So, if I do mean to be good to that person, while expecting something out of it, but I'll always be nice either way.
I don't know if this is clear, but I really don't think "acting nice" is that bad, as long as you aren't a jerk. There's a difference between a jerk pretending to be nice and a normal guy pretending to be nice, while the latter isn't as much of an act.
that’s exactly what he’s saying though. it’s about trying to appear authentic when they’re not being authentic. as long as you’re conveying you’re not doing these things and wanting nothing in return then there’s no problem.
it’s that „nice guys“ need to stop lying about doing things and wanting nothing in return, cause girls can smell that a mile away. if you’re upfront about it you have a much better chance of being interesting to her cause you’re not lying to her about who you are.
there is no „jerk pretending to be nice“ or „normal guy pretending to be nice“
everybody is the hero of their own story, anyone who acts like a „nice guy“ genuinely believes of themselves as a good guy. the difference is if you’re lying about your motives or not
Needed to hear this one today!
Everyone do things to benefit themselves. Even the true selfless people do it because if they don't they will fell bad.
Because God is there for them❤
More people need to know this. Well put! ❤
Being blindly selfless is not a positive thing. We could argue that selfless acts are done for self fulfilment. Which could be selfish in nature. It just so happens to benefit other people as well. So the public generally looks kindly towards these selfless individuals because it benefits them. Wouldn't that be selfish of the public? The people who want selfless partners often want them because they are more impressionable and manipulatable.
.
Expecting reciprocity in relationships is not selfish by any means. It's logical.
I have been of the opinion that kindness with expectations of a reward isn't kindness
True kindness, is doing it for someone you don't know, because it is right, because it'll make them happy, without a reward or retribution
That is kindness
There is no such thing as a "good person" or a "selfless person" everyone wants something in return for something.
If you seek romance it's because you want romance. If you do something good it's because being good feels good to you. Every action is transactional.
Acting like sacrificing ourselves selflessly and let ourselves be walked all over is the way to be a good person is something a manipilator would say.
Yeah the nice guy discourse is gaslighting
sure, the difference is who uses it as a tool of manipulation and not just because of the kick that it gives them to do good, which id what Dr K is talking about
Right? Everyone is getting something out of their actions. Nothing is selfless.
Best we can do is make sure our actions benefit others as well as ourselves I guess
Exactly, if you are running around doing everything without any expectations you are not a good guy, you are being taken advantage of.
@@MaejorArray Nobody owes anyone anything. And you aren't entitled to anything. Period.
Acting like you should be a 'good person' and expect nothing in return is naive and childish and it's a sure fire way to get taken advantage of.
I never said there wasn't a difference, I said that one is nonsensical and illogical behavior and the other very much makes sense. Read the whole thing next time.
Also I'm not making excuses for incels or nice guys who 'do something nice' and expect to be given a date, love or companionship. I think they are extremely stupid because again, nobody owes them anything.
That's how the world works, the sooner you realize it, the better.
Selflessness doesn't exist. The only reason any person does anything that appears selfless is because he/she believes it will help him/her in some way. If you enjoy helping people you help people *because* you enjoy it, hence you're doing it for selfish reasons. It is inconceivable that a person would chose to do something that he/she doesn't enjoy, something that will not help them in any way. True selflessness, as an impulse, could never evolve in a species.
It is not selfish if the other side got something, being good in general can be benificial to gain trust and gain more friends,
The group isn't homogenous. For some men this will match, for some not so much.
Quote from Michael Vassar:
> But how did nerds originally become bitter? By being ignored by women? Then why would women ignore them before they became bitter?
> Suppose that middle-class American men are told, at an age too immature to examine parental commands critically: "In dealing with women, be X, Y, and Z" where X, Y, and Z are instructions like "Only express sexual interest in those women who you are confident are interested in you, prior to that, always be polite." And middle class American women are told, in a similar fashion, "In choosing a man, look for politeness and respectful non-sexual behavior."
> So far, so good. The message is consistent.
> But when women grow up, they find that they aren’t attracted to the men they were told to look for. Maybe they believe, with reason even, that such men are ‘boys’, not ‘men’, and find this unattractive (ultimately because it was and still is evolutionarily unfit). Instead, most women spurn the timid advances made by the ‘nice guys’ they think they should prefer. But since they believe they should be choosing such men, they also decide that the men they reject cannot be the type they were told to prefer. This may explain why ‘nice guys’ might end up labeled ‘liars’.
> In this model, the nerd’s sense of thwarted entitlement comes from recognizing that he has the traits X, Y, and Z that authority figures told him to display and that women claim to want - which does nothing to change the fact that feelings of thwarted entitlement for ANY reason are extremely unattractive.
> In this model, masculine attractiveness requires recognizing that:
> A) The rules that one is taught as a boy are simplified rules for boys, and some of them must eventually be discarded once you figure out better rules.
> B) The real rules require you to give lip-service, when in mixed company, to the rules for boys.
> Nerds tend to be literal, to lie infrequently, to greatly resent being lied to, and to not adjust their behavior based on information their brains have not yet verbalized.
> Nerds are also reluctant to behave hypocritically, e.g. by verbally condemning a behavior while engaging in said behavior. If this is what is socially demanded of them, they will be unhappy with the situation.
> As a result, they may never become men in the relevant sense.
Yet lots of women marry a nice guy, that is doing X, Y and Z, because that’s what they’ve been told they want/need. Those marriages all to often lead to dead bedrooms and divorce. Society and parents need to start telling young people the truth. If that kills the institute of marriage, it was never a good institution to begin with. We might need to replace it with something better.
A big part of this is boys are supposed to get real advice from their dad's at a certain age.
People have always told me that I'm really genuine and I never knew what that meant and whether it was good or bad until I experienced someone that is very clearly putting on an act. I also never tell people that I'm a nice guy I tell them I'm an asshole that tries to be kind to people
Most nice guys really aren't nice at all. They just do nice gestures for people to get something out of it in return, then when they don't get what they're after they go online to be racist or hateful about women while touting what saints they are. That being said there's nothing wrong in being nice to get something you want, you just need to be honest with yourself and the other person about it. It's kinda human nature to some degree but lets not pretend it is all out of the goodness of our hearts, it's not nice, it's rather manipulative.
I just figured out I've been trying to put working on my marriage in front of working on myself and it's destroying us. Prioritising the marriage first means i see everything my wife could do better and far less that i can do better because it's it's natural to see faults in others easier.
I've had so much regret for not giving myself more time to "work on myself" before starting this relationship. I realised i had this idea that before relationship i prepare by putting all my energy into bettering myself and when in relationship i spend that preparation on my gf/wife. I just came to the realisation that i should never have stopped putting my personal development first. Focusing on the relationship actually blinds me to my own problems because a relationship is 2 people's problems the other person's problems are always gonna look bigger than your own.
I stopped being a "nice guy" early. Being nice in a good way is like giving gifts, if you expect something in return you should not give them. Just don't drown people in gifts if it makes them feel bad.
I think most of us believe in some notion that goodness is rewarded and bad is punished type of karma, but really it is just being good regardless of whatever happens that matters.
there is no truely selfless good deed
it always strikes me as 'you not wanting to reciprocate niceness', so you label the nice guy as something evil
Indeed. But good deeds are good because God thinks it is good. He will reward you. He will reciprocate you for it to release the other person(s) from the burden of your sacrifice. We are all equal, and they are unable to repay your debt as they are truly selfish creatures. If they were not selfish, they would give you a hit or a sign of it.
@@Dimitris_Halfpeople will stop being kind to you when all you do is insult them
LOUDER for the people in the back. SO many guys need to learn this lesson
Good guys act selfless.
Nice guys act “selfless” as to gain something selfish.
@penderyn8794Then he is a better person by morals
@penderyn8794He's good because he likes to be good. It's its own reward, and it makes him feel good and authentic by caring about other people (full stop).
@penderyn8794 People can be selfless and still not give you anything in return because what you want is unreasonable. If you are nice to a woman only because you hope/expect her to fall in love with you, it's an unreasonable expectation that she can't fulfill out of selflessness.
If I help my disabled and poor friend to move into a new apartment chances are low he could ever return the favour, no matter how selfless he is.
There are millions of examples where being kind to someone doesn't mean you should expect them to return the favour immediately or with something very specifically that you want.
Indeed, another problem is that we see more and more being fake working and being authentic not working. The other problem is dealing with rejection some people, myself included, just don't want to deal with that or be successful in that only for the person you choose be a terrible person.
This all applies to all kinds of people.
I hate how we've tarnished "nice guys" attributing it to specific people, limiting our own language.
"nice guys finish last" is where the term comes from. It was coined in 1942, and has been the standard label for men who think they deserve something ever since. We didn't tarnish it, our great grandparents did.
@@ghostratsarah I always hate it when people turning perfectly normal human beings into monsters by lying and deceiving others of how reality is, instead of how reality truly is.
Which it explains the “incels” and “simps” had existed to this day.
“Nice” is just a crap word. 🤦♂️ It sounds like a filler word, and when it comes to people, it’s honestly just a polite way of calling out someone who’s fake. In this sense, it has a purpose.
@@CR-rm4iy Not gonna lie, the second someone starts complaining by calling themselves “nice” is the same second I leave the conversation. 😂😂 Honest and authentic people don’t use those adjectives to describe themselves, they need to hear it from other people first - then it becomes an observed quality of character.
@@ghostratsarah No it was not. It was always standard label for unassertive guys that are too polite to succeed mainly in sports but was adopted for the romantic relationships later.
Shutter lag is still an issue, low light photos still suck. Some people are still experiencing screen grain issues
Theres also no shame in benefiting from good behavior. I was at a hardware store I worked at on a day off, and an old lady was shouting for help filling her tires with air and no one was stopping to help her. I stopped filled her tires, asked about her day, and even showed her how to place an online order at a restaurant she wanted to go to. Couple hours passed, and I had the idea to text my boss the story. Why, when promotions come around, it might help. I didnt help her with the intention of receiving a reward, I didnt even think of it at the time, and ive done many other things for altruisms sake. Sometimes you can use good to recieve good, and even hope that your good is matched, but the problem comes with the expectation and entitlement to a reward. Do good for the good of it, and its ok to hope for it to be given back to you, but dont feel entitled to it.
What? You *texted* this to your boss *specifically* for potential benefit? That's odd. I'm kinda putting you down here (myself not being nice) but it might be worth reflecting why you did that, and why this startled me as a reader so much.
If you do something good and you get rewarded without looking for it, then good for you. But actively looking for a reward after doing something good, that's the problem
If I were your boss and you'd randomly text me this story I'd definitely make sure not to promote you when time comes. Makes you come off as weird at best and manipulative at worst.
This is a weird story
@@JingLan69 Yeah I'm a boss and I love when I hear nice things about my employees from other people, but when it comes from them it literally goes in one ear and out the other. Not saying they don't genuinely do a good job, but it just comes across as insincere.
I wish every guy could see this. Obviously not for me, a guy, but as a third party I see a lot of nice guys pretending to be selfless towards people I know to get something out of it. It annoys the crap out of me. Often it also ends with them throwing a tantrum if they don't end up getting what they think deserve to get from being nice.
Caring about people noticing your kind acts is the first thing to get rid of when being genuine.
That is tough. But true.
Yeah, no. When you’ve been so selfless for so long that people take it fir granted and don’t appreciate the time and energy you put into helping them, sacrificing your own well-being along the way, you start to give a shit whether people actually notice.
I’m not a doormat. You don’t get to keep taking advantage of my genuine kind acts endlessly and then turn around and accuse me of seeking praise or repayment to avoid admitting your own selfishness.
But how does that apply to dating when the whole point is to "get the girl/guy"?
To elaborate: She could easily perceive the genuine kindness as just that, and things won't move forward. How do you avoid that?
sounds like an excuse to take advantage of the kindness of others, so piss off with that
Then the real problem comes in with, "what do people want?" and does it coincide with your goals and wants?
This kind of phrases it like wanting something from someone else is a bad thing, it's not entirely a bad thing, but using it as manipulation is a negative thing, it's "nice, but it's actually a venomous trap." as opposed to "we can work together to achieve something we are both lacking."
It's an oddity in perception to be sure.
I disagree there is very few people who are completely good in such a way, that no matter how people behave towards them will still act kindly to them. And there is also very few people who I would considere "nice guys" who only act good to a person to receive something from them.
There is big portion of people who act kindly to others and never expect anything in return from any specific person, but they still can get angry and act out, if all that is ever returned to them for their kind behavior is abuse of their willingness to help, scorn, neglect, etc.
Don’t aim for authenticity. That’s faking it. Just be who you are on the outside as you are on the inside - that’s authenticity. It’s not even about being quantifiably “good” or “nice”, it’s about matching your actions and words and being not being ashamed of who you are. Chances, you’re an inherently good person on the inside, just let that show. That’s authenticity, not doing what you think is nice or good so that people will admire or some shit. This is what “be yourself” is about.
What about people who don’t feel so good about themselves? Surely they’ve got to hide it at least to a degree, otherwise people won’t want anything to do with them because they’re always a soppy downer
Nah, some people are just nice and don't expect anything in return. This demonization of nice guys is just women trying to rationalize their romantic preference for dark triad types.
I never understood what "nice guy finish last" mean
@@K7TZ It means that women are more attracted to men high in dark triad traits, so naturally shun nice guys.
I think you are mistaken the use of the word "nice"
If they were nice or good, and didn't expect anything it return it wouldn't bother them that they "finish last". They do expect something in return. Which is human nature to some extent, but we can't pretend they're all good selfless guys. They're guys who thought if they said something nice or bought a gift then the person they're pursuing might like them more. They didn't say the nice thing or buy the gift purely out of kindness. Women love pure acts of kindness, from anyone. It's very sweet. But they're very rare these days, even from other women.
@@MySimDiedYou are told as a kid that girls like when you are “nice” though lol. They give you the expectation of being rewarded for just being nice. And if you’re self aware you very quickly realize that isn’t the case.
Its so corny to harp on “nice” guys as if they’re some evil manipulator masterminds lol.
My motto is "never trade authenticity for approval."
why does it matter bro
@@MalmoriousBro the short talked about authenticity did you even watch the whole thing
@@MorgueInTheVoid why
@@Malmorious why what
why
But then they're authentic and people are like "eeew, no, no, no, what the fuck, get outta here!"
Then they go back to being fake 🤣
I remember Ted Bundy talking about this, "I don't show emotion and people are like 'see, he has no emotions', then I show emotion and people are like 'look, he is angry, he is a monster'. Seems like I can't win", or something along those lines, this is paraphrased.
You’re comparing ordinary guys to Ted Bundy? 😅
Therapy would help figure things out in than case.
@pwh5805 I'm comparing guys and girls who have learned through the person they loved the most and identified the most that they'd only be appreciated by proxy when they look "good" to other people and put up a façade, and not for who they are or were, in fact, they were metaphorically hit in the head when they tried to be authentic; and this pattern kept playing on and being reinforced throughout life by other people for other reasons (usually because other people can't tolerate the kinds of thoughts and feeling they have when they actually do express it).
In the end all they know is to put up a different persona to each person they meet, but hardly ever they know who they are, so there's no sense of authenticity they can point to, except shame, guilt, fear, rage and hatred, and they hate that, and they hate themselves, so they also hate everyone else.
Bundy is a severely extreme case, but the notion holds true across the board. The first shall be last and the last first, if we don't learn to accept and embrace people to some capacity, without condoning or rewarding their bad behaviour, as a society, they'll keep behaving badly and just keep hiding it.
@Outstanding_Gal Why do you believe I have an obsession with Bundy? Have I shown an obsession for Bundy the other times we have met? Just for clarity?
Edit: jfc stands for "jesus fucking christ", apparently, not "just for clarity"
@Outstanding_Gal You don't know? That's ok. If you don't know, you don't really wanna claim someone does something, right? This is the only time I have quoted him, to make a point that makes sense in context. You can reread the post if you want to
I know I'm a manipulative narcissist. My intentions are good, however I delude myself with that fact, but the overall reason is to get something I want or an outcome I want. I'm forcing myself to question all my actions now by asking myself, 'am I doing this or saying these things from a genuine place for the sake of being a good person or do I subconsciously or intentionally want something from this person?' I am trying to be accountable for that flaw in my personality and become more self-aware. I have a lot of work still to accomplish that task.
political framing always seems to lose the meat of a subject in biasses. no one does anything for a non self-centric reason. no one does anything without a benefit to them. ie in your example of volunteering many do it because it makes them feel good in some way. what you are calling "nice guy" sounds more like being deceptive and false to get something
i'm tired of your political framing and biases ruining your content. goodbye
Thank you for this message. It confirmed a thought I was parsing.
The problem is we've gotten to a point in society where even saying "Hello" or holding the door will get you labeled as a creep/.
Holding open a door has never been anything but polite and I don't know anyone who will object to that. I feel this is another "you can't walk past a woman at the gym without her making allegations" thing which no one actually objects to outside of social media. Saying hello to someone is a little more complex because that can be creepy, depending on the setting. Society doesn't really encourage saying hello to strangers anymore, rightly or wrongly and so how the other person is going to react is a mixed bag. I don't mind it personally but if I'm walking a street alone or something I always feel like its a prelude to getting mugged. Simply because many times it is.
So what? just roll your eyes at those people and continue doing kind gestures. It's weird that this actually bothers you so much.
I feel like the people who are kind instead of nice do the same thing but just indirect, they'll get the relationship because they are more distant and patient but they know that will give them a higher chance, there's no reason to engage in something without knowing there will be an outcome. Being absolutely selfless is beautiful but no one achieves it even if they try.