And it’s always the little guys (Overkill devs) who end up paying the most. Paying for STARBREEZ’E mismanagement and ridiculous investments. …and FRANK DARABONT’s lack of understanding (WALKING DEAD CREATOR) for pulling the plug on the game before they could even improve it. Seriously F that guy!! Then forced to develop PD3 with a very minimal budget and time. OVERKILL got gang raped from all ends.
It's still a positive change between entries in the franchise because mods aren't a core part of the experience. Can we stop pretending mods are official content when judging sequels?
@@plebisMaximus what i meant was modders do more than devs with small QOL aditions and even go out of their way to optimize and fix the game bugs. I don't want to shit on devs they made a game after all but after earning that kind of money and still not showing their game the support it deserves is bothering me. They could be good but very incompetent.
Not when starbreeze keeps taking mods as ideas for new content. Happened in the later part of payday 2 and I'm sure it'll keep happening in 3 going forward Where do you think the idea of the gas grenade enemy and "you can now carry two bags" skill came from.@@plebisMaximus
The phenomenal success of Helldivers 2 shows that people have been starved for a solid group PvE game and by extension shows just how badly Starbreeze dropped the bag with Payday 3. All they had to do was make a game that was fun to play, and they instead chose to make a grindy, buggy, glorified storefront. They could've just made a game that was essentially an updated version of Payday 2 with QoL and gameplay improvements and knocked it out of the park.
@@theequalizer694exactly, like baldurs gate 3, I've never touched DnD in my life and never thought I would. But that game is a 10/10 for me and one of my favorite games ever played. All it takes is a solid game with solid writing and a solid art style.
You know what the funny part is? That last bit about making "the abomination" essentially a updated payday 2 more specifically, that is what a "sequel" is. Not this hogwash that "innovates" the title. Sequels are supposed to resemble the previous, it would be understandable if the abomination didn't resemble payday 1 because payday 2 shifted into the goofier side of things so it was expected the abomination would resemble Payday 2. No, it was a classic case of developers needing to leave innovation to minor things or entirely new titles. Otherwise you get an abomination that isn't a sequel while calling itself one and that is why I don't call it "Payday 3", it doesn't deserve that title. It's one thing to shift away, it's another to completely change face. You won't see golden spoons or mach speed dodge builds in the abomination. Only a armour system and resource management very few if any likes.
This video was an eye opener for me because I never knew overkill actually made so many games that flopped.This is why it always felt weird to me how it took so long for them to make a newer payday game despite payday-2 using such a old engine.I always thought overkill was an indie dev who suddenly got famous cause of payday but seems like I was wrong and honestly imagine if they actually focused on a new payday game with their own engine,how much better the gameplay actually will be.But instead of doing that they took unreal engine and just made such a old boring way to make the game with less content.
Not a super accurate view of game development. The engine is usually the first thing to be blamed when a game isn't great, but it's almost never an actual cause. GTA V was built on an old engine made for a ping pong game, even with the most specific engines you can refit it to your needs, and in the case of Payday 3, that wasn't needed at all, since UE is made largely with shooters in mind, and you can feel that, the shooting feels great in PD3. The lack of content is a deliberate choice by the team, not a limitation. In fact, had they made a new engine, the game would've taken far longer to release or been released with even less content. Sure, they could've just used the Diesel engine Payday 2 runs on, but with how old and buggy it is, the amount of work they'd have to put in wouldn't be worth it. Picking UE is probably the best move they could've made.
You significantly underestimate just how much work it is to make your own engine. Unreal is fine for a game like Payday. Unreal is for for most things. The problem is not having veteran unreal developers who know how to get the best out of it.
Don't forget that the franchise's success is not even by Starbreeze. It's by the original Overkill Developers (most of which are now part of 10 chambers)
I played payday 2 on the 360, god I was in middleschool around that time I'm in college now but I'm currently on a payday 3 sucks binge watch just wasting time and every vid they brought up starbreeze and I was like wtf I swore it was overkill or ultrakill that were the devs, to lazy to look it up but shit was tripping me the fuck out 😂
The sheer amount of money Bo Anderson was allowed to basically just throw away before he was finally let go is genuinely shocking. Either no one at Starbreeze had any sense of foresight, or no one was willing to tell him no. I really hate to see Payday go down like this, it's such a fantastic and unique franchise
I should have seen the writing on the wall and demanded a refund when us Playstation players didn't get our pre-order bonuses a full month after and one of my friends to this day hasn't got his gold edition items or their cross over with dying light and its dl point. My only regret is I don't remember the slogan used to call it a scam... oh, and I played Payday 3 to much to get a refund.
The main issue with live service games is games are made to be live service. The reason Payday 2 was allowed to live almost a decade off DLC releases is because it was released a solid, complete and fun game, same with GTA V, the competitive Valve titles, and so many others from the early to mid-2010's. Then a bunch of investors who know absolutely nothing about the industry they've bought their way into noticed how profitable these games were and they try to recreate the success artificially, leading to an artificial experience that nobody would ever want to play. The industry has been taken over by wallstreet bastards and the artistry in AAA gaming is dead so a room full investors can nod their heads as a fellow investor talks about an industry he has no experience in or love for and how he intends to wring every last penny out of it. Game publishers aren't entertainment companies anymore, they're tech companies, with all the worker abuse and growth driven business strategies that comes with and it's cost us all hope of ever seeing a good AAA game again. It's very fortunate self-publishing has gotten so easy these days so indie devs can carry some of the weight.
Even though I agree with your comment, you missed the fact that payday 2 was also in a poor state on its release. Despite that they were actively updating and fixing the game, mix that with the fact that the gameplay was simple to understand yet had a lot of mechanics only a long time player would know, it made for a very good combination that let the game thrive
@@putcatfacehere2045 I stand corrected in the case of Payday 2 then. Admittedly I didn't actually buy the game until 2016, but my point still stands concerning the industry in general.
@@putcatfacehere2045 I dont think he really had to say that, because the guy who made the video basically said the same thing and this is a comment on it. It might've been in a poor state on release, but it was revolutionary compared to the first payday, and the game was clearly designed with fun in mind which is whats most important. You can just tell from playing payday 3 around launch that the game was released in a latch ditch effort to make profits for a quarter, so the studio wasnt just closed lol.
For me one of Payday 3's biggest sins is the complete lack of a dopamine rush I get from obtaining bags and finishing heists. Payday 2 actively enticed you to gamble your earnings for just one more bag. I really miss the indicators of how much each bag of loot was worth every time you secured one. It made my monkey brain get excited.
Yeah, securing the diamond for the first time and seeing a couple of extra zeroes on the loot secured indicator was such a big dopamine rush. Now I steal a bag of cash or supposedly super expensive electronic components and I see nothing.
Real. When the value of each bag was flashed across the screen it made that monke neuron activation "haha numbers go up brrr". It encourages heisters to loot just one more bag of money/painting/artifact/gold, and play just 10 minutes longer to defend the decision to go for that one more bag of loot. Lord knows when I first played PD2 with my irl friends, we stuck in 60 whole minutes in freaking Jewellery Store Heist because we were four absolute noobs playing a couple difficulties too high going for that extra 10k dollars or whatever it was back then lol.
I wish I could say you were wrong, I have 3K hours on Payday 2 and about 300 on Payday 3 and there are just so many things that boggles my mind about payday 3, everything from downgraded menus such as being unable to name loadouts or link cosmetic sets to those loadouts or having all the variations of a cosmetic being separate which just bloats the store to the lack of RNG variation within heists making them lack replay value. There’s no variation in loot amounts, so you can’t be excited over something like getting 25 bags in a big bank instead of 21, nope, it’s just stagnant and repetitive. The lack of heists is also a big turn off, seriously, add a hand full of simple heists like bank heist, diamond store or go bank, short experiences where the core gameplay can shine, not every heist needs to be a spectical. Overkill weapons are a cool system but I really liked being able to create wild builds in Payday 2 like Katana wielding Sociopath with a flamethrower and grenade launcher and with Overkill weapons I’m afraid that they limit those choices, just like how SMGs are all primaries now despite basically being worse ARs, like are you seriously going to take a Ziv Comando as a primary? Meanwhile revolvers beat out the single true sniper primary since there’s nearly no utility to weapons anymore, you don’t supplement what’s lacking in your primary in your secondary because basically no weapon has utility, wether it be shield killing dozer busting or crowd control basically any weapon can do anything, some just do it better than others making some weapons completely pointless, Payday 2 kind of had a problem with some guns basically being reskins with worse or better stats but there were enough guns and enough variation that those were outliers. The skill system is also massively flawed since every skill requires 1 point which means that all skills should be even, they aren’t, perk decks while sometimes limiting created an anchor to build the build around, if they ever wanna do something like Grinder again they’re just gonna have to make you spend 4 points in your already limited amount of skill points to get the full effect. All of this together with how slow development is compared to what Payday 2 had and Deep Silver wanting to force in micro transactions to a game series that really won’t benefit from it just makes Payday 3 bittersweet, so much potential but with so many systems that are by all accounts complete failures that need reworking they’re gonna have their hands full with just catching up, let alone making it good. Would hate to see it end like this since I’ve been with the franchise since I was 12 when the John Wick character pack came out and it’s how I’ve met some of my best friends. In conclusion: Sadness :(
11:21 Perhaps am missing something as haven't touched the game for a while. But last I recall, you could filter your search for specific difficulties and/or heists or contractors of said heists to only have those kinds of lobbies pop up.
I'm not even looking at PD3, I called it a bust when they released with no offline mode and their idea to "fix" the issue is not a fix at all. offline means offline, no middle ground.
Them, and Epic games. I didn't even buy the game thanks to the latter, though I have 2000h of PD2. Shitty servers, Chinese spyware, always online.. shitty mod support, shitty anticheat.. let alone trying to force people to join their platform through buying exclusive rights to sell certain games. Goes on and on, Epic ruins everything they touch
@@marcfyre ...How the scrap is is that racist...? And we already know why Payday 3 flopped: sheer incompetence and bag fumbling to such a degree you'd think they were tumbleweeds. Don't need Carmelita Fox's help to bust this case ya sees.
i checked on saturday night (10 pm) and the playercount was 137. also i love the trope of removing basic features the previous games had, only to be kinda added back and expect praise as if its the second coming of christ
FINALLY! FINALLY someone tells the full REAL story!! All these new (and old) players that have no clue. Every time I bring these points up in a debate, people think I'm full of ish when hardly anyone besides OG's have any idea what I'm talking about. Amazing and accurate video brother, it's sad it even had to come to this but this is the world we live in.
Yeah I really appreciate this video, what happened to OVERKILL was messed up. People should know. They got seriously gang raped from all ends…. But my only complaint is he skipped over how big of a scumbag FRANK DARABONT was for pulling the plug on the WALKING DEAD game before they could even fix/improve it. Seriously messed them up bad. I mean he said they violated their contract cause they promised him (FRANK D. BAG) a “hit game”… the game could of been really good by now, which would of helped the development of PD3. A lot more blame should be put on FRANK DARABONT. I got no more respect for the guy
Funny you went so quickly over Andersson "fired" Cause I remembered he ran of with the money and the Swedish federal reserves were looking for them, with Starbreeze getting raided too...
Omg I almost forgot about all that controversy. I think the raid ended up not being as bad as it sounded tho. But yeah he kind of skipped over how big of a scumbag FRANK DARABONT was also, for pulling the plug on the WALKING DEAD game before they could even improve it. Real D bag move. Zero understanding or care for OK’s dilemma. Seriously F FRANK DARABONT.
And the best part, they decided in the lead up to pd3 that they would allow pd2 on epic games store which was literally the worst update in the history of the game and has caused the game to become so unstable that in my case I literally crashed when trying to open chat mid heist
This is a great video that was well put together and very eye opening. I always knew Starbreeze was a bad dev studio but I didn't realize they were this bad. It's sad. Payday 2 is one of my all time favorites.
They’re actually the publisher/owner of OVERKILL. And also 2/3 to blame for the whole mess. With 1/3 being FRANK DARABONT for cancelling their contract on WALKING DEAD game.
I like how in the entire ''improvements'' section you have only talked about stealth mechanics which are one of the only things payday 3 gets praised in.
I think that’s the real tragedy of pd3, is that the core gameplay is a BLAST in my opinion. I loved the game for the 3 days of early access before the public release, but once the server problems hit, plus the repetition from the lack of alternate ways to play the heists coupled with the terrible xp system, I haven’t played the game in months
My words exactly. I do still drop in for a couple heists every now and then, but it's not something I want to grind like PD2 was. I still haven't even tried out the new heist yet, despite getting it on release day thanks to having gold edition. The new stealth mechanics are so much fun, but I just really don't feel like navigating the worst menus ever made just so I can wait a minute or more to get into a solo lobby, only to get no reward at all from finishing a heist.
payday 2 legit people have been heisting the same 10 most popular maps for straight up 10 years with no progression except some extra infamy levels YET it's FUN
@@AlexTechiebro the core gameplay is fun it’s just theres no content no rng and gets repetitive but the game at its core is dumb fun Just like borderlands 3 the story is terrible theres way to much talking and is repetitive but the core gameplay is amazing
I was excited for Payday 3 when it came out. The sole reason I didn't end up buying it was because it was exclusively live service. Lost all interest...
Payday to me is the franchise that has massive potential but the developers just don't want it to happen. The console releases of Payday 2 really shown that, they ditched DLC for it (at least on some formats) and the patches etc took forever to come out/didn't come out at all. Payday with crossplay would be great to bring everyone together.
Agreed. Maybe thats all they should've done. Fix Payday 2,by bringing in features like opening and closing doors,fixing detection system,and the moving bodies around part. That wouldve been cheaper and gotten them more money in the long run. And maybe if they are so desperate for it,just release skins and stuff like COD. Or to make players happy,bring in more maps,mire weapons. They couldve make it a game that never gets old. Now its doing to die.
My bro (Payday 3) implement lobby unready button 6 months after its release 💀. I mean, I love Payday 2 racking up almost 600 hours of playtime & not even own all of their dlcs but it's silly goofy fun, the OST was completely vibes & memorable same as KF 2. Seeing Pd 3 current state is sad, but still hoping that they recover. Great videos
When the season pass for payday 2 was heavily discounted, I still bought every dlc individually because I wanted to support the devs. I genuinely cannot believe payday 3 ended up like this
a big thing with the promotion of the game is they had this really good launch event for influencers that were sponsored to play the game before launch, the game before it came out and most of them just sucked off overkill and starbreeze.
I would go as far as to say it began when Almir famoulsy lied about MTX and then introduced the safe and drill loot box mechanics. A lot of veteran payday players bailed from that moment, this was the death knell and start of the greed.
The people making these games must have been getting massive headaches hearing about stupid wastes of money like a VR park in Dubai. Dubai?! The place KNOWN for being a wasteful money-sink?? God. Feel so bad for them. They could have done so much with all that cash.
You should have seen Payday 2 when loot boxes were released, Payday 2's number is lost a lot of old school players cuz Almir said he would never do it and screwed so many people that trusted him there was another event revolving gold masks of the original crew that ticked off a bunch of people too they've been doing it for years and yes they did it to themselves hopefully they sell it to someone that actually cares because Starbreeze does not
Fun fact, Helldivers 2 has received more content updates than Payday 3, actually adding new "stratagems", infact, depending on your time zone, they released two new ones today/yesterday as of typing this. They also have a farmable premium currency that is also cheaper than other games premium currency and have released two battle passes in the two months Helldivers 2 has been out, released a new enemy and side objective related to it and fixed countless bugs that made certain weapons unusable after a week or so. They removed planet modifiers/reworked hated ones and completely removed some mission types because people hated them. *DID I MENTION ALL THE ABOVE WAS OVER TWO MONTHS?*
Fun fact: they also had the luxury of being able to develop the game under much better circumstances. It’s like the difference of having to make a parachute within X amount of time VS. OVERKILLS’s circumstances. Having to make a parachute while falling toward the ground with X amount of time it takes til you hit the ground…. So which parachute u think will work better?
Great summary. I mean in their next update the unready button is on the highlight list. As if that's crazy hard to implement. As a programmer I can assure you it's simple and just a few lines of code.
And yet it still took them a month and a half to implement lol. Pretty much all that came with the patch too. I really hope following updates are a little meatier if they want to save the game.
Deserved. As much as I love PayDay 2 it is an incredibly flawed game that kept milking players for DLCs and had a story that jumped the shark for no reasons . I absolutely hate PD2's gameplay nowadays and feel like they really ruined it instead of doing any fixes or improvments.
And cutting ✂️ off the console fanbase entirely leaving Payday 2 fans on console being hungry for content or just straight up leave and go to other series cause no one wants to spend money on PC.
Im a payday veteran and the worst thing is that payday 3 apart from being bad have also some really cool features like hostage, armor and health system, stealth and it's so pitiful to see all the developers work just being vanished by the management
You really like the armor system? It was "fine" but there was no variety on the gameplay for it and they were extremely stubborn to fix the dependency on armor bags.
the problem with the game isn't necessarily because it is a life service game but rather how said life service game is serviced (this is the case for any LS game). everyone who enjoys and plays a game consistently enough is more than reasonable to want it to be supported through DLC/expansions/updates for as long as possible. the problem is rather the developers and publishers churning out enough content at a pace fast enough considering the current amount of content already available and charging a fair amount for the new content (if it isn't a free update) considering what you got for what you paid in the base game. that and not feeling like certain new content is important enough to the point it should be included in the base game with a free update but it being locked away behind a paid DLC. another problem of payday 3 that hasn't anything to do with it being necessarily a life service game, is the amount of QoL updates/abilities/whatever you might call it that the prequel already had gotten through its development not being present in the new iteration.... all that development and with the new game you seem to have forgotten all that.... back to square 1... finally, a problem with any sequel to a LS game that also wishes to be a LS game is that the previous game will for a couple of years (depending on how long the previous game was supported) always have much more content than the new iteration. It's just a losing battle to wish for the opposite even if the team for the new game pumps a lot of content rather quickly, so to entice the players the developers while still developing content for the previous game, understand why the community truly likes and plays the game, what it isn't enjoyed by many and what critical components should be focused and developed for the sequel. a failure to do so only leads to a half-assed release, where the community doesn't enjoy the new game as much as the previous one, and a game where the company will need to take several years just to make it at least as enjoyable as the previous one in a different way. its a problem that's compounded with every release of content that is perceived as good for the previous game and worst even if the content is paid as there will be an even bigger incentive to remain on the previous game due to the time and money invested so far on it. the time taken whilst developing a LS game shouldn't be only used to develop new content but also to understand better its player base so that the core and QoL ideas of the LS sequel can better match the expectations of the players. This problem is also extremely evident with several Paradox games where the publisher as of right now has several LS games and is now trying to develop slowly sequels to all of them. Yet due to so many years of content already being developed for the latter games the new games are also having problems getting their own playerbase. When you start developing a LS game and it becomes your main source of revenue the publisher is essentially walking into a trap, where they are doomed if they stop making content for its game which is much cheaper than developing a new game from the ground up, and doomed if the continue as it will become increasingly hard to eventually make them switch onto a sequel.
It's a symptom of investors buying up all the stake in pretty much every major publisher. The executives who started a lot of the older gaming companies were nerds who made games themselves, now there isn't one important person in the industry who didn't get their for the sole purpose of making a return on investment and they have absolutely no interest in games outside of that, so they don't know what makes a game people want to buy and play, they can only look at what other people are doing to replicate their success. You see Payday 2 still making money after decade and you know that's something you want in on, so you just do what they did, make something barebones and add on to it with paid DLC. What they don't realise (nor care to consider) is Payday 2 was released in 2013, when the amount of content it had at launch was pretty normal for a studio of their size. Same thing with PDX. CK2 was "only" 40 euro and it's hard to convince a new player to drop 300 on DLC for a game they might not even like, so let's start over and make a much smaller CK3 that we can then go on to profit off for a decade again. Of course, it's not like they could've supported CK2 for all eternity and a new title in the series was inevitable, but it's that mindset of releasing a platform instead of a game that pops up again and again. They suffered for it with Imperator, and everything released since then _has_ been better, but not by so much I'd say they're doing great. Not to mention how they're treating EU4 these days. But far past just these 2 studios, it's a problem plaguing the entire industry and it won't be solved unless we have a crash that scares off all the investors.
People seem to forget this is how the first and second payday launched too. Especially payday 2. There was like 5 heists and maybe 15 guns in the game and all the dlc was pricy at launch. Somehow overkill managed to get away with it with payday 2 but youd think theyd have learned a little by payday 3.
you really think but honestly in the current gaming climate its always the flock waiting for the next big thing and pd3 with its slow response time to patches and content, they've pretty much sunk at this point and the outdated paid dlc model isnt really bringing new players and keeping old ones in. like you said pd2 launched crappy but it sorted a bunch relatively quick. i just dont see the company lasting much longer to see it get there like the previous game did
Payday 2 got two whole weapon packs, a difficulty rebalance, reintroduced cloakers, 5 new heists and fixed many base game issues in the same time frame and a smaller team than payday 3. Also it had solid gameplay, which 3 does not.
Always online IS QUITE LITERALLY the main reason I and about 60 of my friends straight up REFUSED to buy or give Payday 3 a chance. Regardless how good the game play is. It's bot a small meaningless fault. It's a decent chunk of the reason Payday 3 saw a lot of it's refunds. Also as far as Operation Medic Bag, I'm reserving ALL judgement until I see it implemented.
It's really soured me on the whole thing too. Absolutely love the core gameplay, but I despise how long it takes me to get to that gameplay, at least a minute of server searching for each and every heist. Had I spent that minute in Payday 2, I would've gone from booting the game to having control of my character. It's ridiculous.
I do not doubt that the decision to buy a joke of an engine if investigated in court would uncover a huge rollback to the pockets of a person who authorized its purchase. I do not understand how such big financial decisions were allowed to make by a person who never saw or dealt with this kinds of money in his entire life. I could only imagine how many useless shit this person bought with company's money.
Oh, so that's why the payday 2 dlc stuff was so weird, I kind of followed what the studio was up to, but even I had literally no idea they made TWO whole games in that time.
I’ll never forget buying payday crimewave edition release of payday 2 on Xbox one. I was so excited to play with my friends and meet new people to play with online. It was my only pre order ever. The game was broken at launch and for a whole year after release. I couldn’t play with anyone. That was so devastating for a young high schooler. I never pro ordered again. I wish they would release good games that worked at launch.
Is it bad that I personally hope the game does full on die and ceases to be supported? It should be a lesson learnt for Starbreeze, if they keep the game alive, we all already know full well that theyre still going to be greedy and only give their loyal players the absolute bare minimum to keep the game going, not even to make it enjoyable. And then once Payday 3 has officially died, we can all go back to Payday 2 and actually enjoy the series once again for what it should be.
I fully stand behind you. I already know us gold pre-order players are going to be screwed, hell, I bet that is why the dlc was so expensive and why they haven'treleased shit, so the one other update at this rate they release so us Gold owners get barely anything, then they can charge the same because "that's the normal dlc cost" so they can squeeze money they don't deserve to the blind and loyal. Us ps5 players got the worst, we didn't even get our pre-order bonuses until a full month after early access, one of my friends which I regret asking to get the game still hasn't received his pre-order bonuses.
That’s incredibly selfish and self centered. Do you not understand that OVERKILL devs had nothing to do with the bad decision making by STARBREEZE since they have no choice but to do things by their command? That they will pay the most, with their livelihoods without a doubt. They would no doubt be closed down if PD3 closes. But no no, they definitely should all pay since the game didn’t meet your expectations. You didn’t get your 70 dollars worth (which can be made in a half a day’s work at a minimum wage job) Seriously tho, how can u actually feel that way after watching this video?
In defense of the ''recent releases'' argument : Helldivers 2 released recently and EVERYONE is playing it. Can't forget Lethal Company either! Also yeah its still 90% greed. Live service is horrible.
Closing doors, and carrying hostages doesn’t mean much, when every other feature and system in the game is completely soulless, or just bad. You can’t tell me developers at starbreeze have passion for this game, they see it as a paycheck, otherwise we would have had everything in the dumb “operation medic bag” already in the game at launch. If anyone actually enjoys Payday 3 for what it is, I hope you enjoyed getting scammed.
Honestly as much as i love payday 2 im hoping this happens. They knew what they were releasing when they put out PD3. An extremely undercooked mess of several systems that have no cohesion with each other. Over 2 months for a day one patch and dlc already being pushed out is unacceptable. What happened to releasing finished games? Starbreeze are pathetic and i hope they go the same way voilition did.
The only a few things I want to add on this: Another aspect that hurt the game were the expectations (players wanting "Payday 2 with a touch of Payday 1," the devs saying "it's a mix of the two, yes," but ending in a "Payday 1 with a dash of payday 2" so the Loud heists are not what people were wanting, despite players sharing their thoughts in opposition to this) Tacked onto that is two words "hype train." Only one other game I've noticed get hyped up but not quite deliver was Halo Infinite. It's been 2 years now and that game is only now starting to become "80% of what players wanted at launch." (although this may also be related to rushing things out the door before people would be happy with it) Last is that I don't really blame Starbreeze/Overkill for some of the deeper cuts (always online, intense DLC/microtransationcs) but I will point the blame to the Embracer Group (shown as the same people that shut down Volition of Saint's Row fame).
It's not that payday the heist is a bad basis for gameplay. It's that payday 3 failed to deliver on aspects of both games. Everything that 3 does that is comparable to PDTH (such as lower but tougher enemies or the challenge progression) was done WAY better in PDTH.
I was a massive payday 2 fan. The only reason I didn't get 3 was the ultimate edition getting early access. If you pre order you should get early access if it's a option. I flat out refuse to buy any game that has an edition that has anything apart from cosmetic value
i appraciate the research and time You put into this amazing video, sad to learn how the developers of one of my favourite games from my childhood wasted their chance,.I’m so glad i found Your channel, You deserve much more views and subscribers for all your work. Can’t describe how much your hitman videos helped me :)
When the first time I heard of Payday 3 I was expecting gta 5 multiplayer style open world crime system with your own stashouses where you could plan your heists and actually drive, escaping police kind of game mechanics. This game seems so disappointing, when I first time saw the trailer I was like Wtf have they been doing all these years. This video explains what they invested their time in. I got the same feeling when I saw CS2 trailer.
It's still better mechanically, it's just that the current pool of heists don't offer much freedom compared to later payday 2 stealth possible heists. 6k hours on payday 2 btw.
8:00 This may be a hot take, but I preferred the bodybags mechanic from 2. You could build yourself as a 'cleaner' type and bring lots of bodybags + reduced penalty for civ deaths. It was fun to quickly knock a civ out, bodybag them and throw them in a dumpster to clear the perimeter. No idea why you would kill everyone on Diamond Store of all heists, that's one of the easiest to stealth without hurting any civ. Even if you play solo for some reason, you can just keep shouting at civs if you run out of zip ties, controlling the crowd as heisters would. The skill tree in Payday 3 barely lets you do any fun things like that, every build and loadout just feels the same. Good video btw, I just didn't really agree with this part.
Great video that showed exactly what I loved about Payday 2, love that you pointed out what they did right but also very wrong. They fixed so much, and did a lot of things right in Payday 3... but bizarrely decided to omit CORE features. And all the waste of money from the company. Really disappointing. My crew of friends and I, who played 200 hours of Payday 2 together, were incredibly excited to do it again in 3. We heard of the issues and held back on purchasing, saying "oh, we will wait until they patch it soon.." Months later, and none of us are willing to touch it. How sad that Starbreeze has wasted all this potential. I have not seen your vids before but I like the matching costumes, really cool.
Payday 3 full game feels like a early beta It’s missing a ton from pd2 that I’m recently new to that game that I can tell like weapon mods like what bullets you want and how fully customisation of it It needs to release a lot more to the game before they can charge dlc and even a carry over from guns and items you got from pd2 would be awesome
A side store, related with Payday but ended by starbreeze. Once upon a time, a random guy remaked PD2 on roblox. Overkill noted it, liked it and told Brick (guy who made pd2 roblox) to change the name. After the name being changed, (Payday 2 to Heist), it remained online and updated. Years passed, Heist became Notoriety, Starbreeze detected Notoriety which was removing most PD features and Notoriety got a DMCA strike upon detection, at the month of September in 2023.
Same. My first preorder and likely last because the only developer I have full faith in is Miyazaki (The head developer if I remember correctly of Elden ring( I likely got swamp man's official job title wrong.))
Them abandoning consoles back in 2016 and refusing to update it further really didn't help with their reputation. Any console player with common sense will refuse to be scammed again and refuse to buy payday 3
We had Dead Space 3, Army of Two: the Devil's Cartel (AoT: 3, basically), Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, and now we have Payday 3. Seems like 3 seems to be a cursed number for some big budget games. (Probably a butt-ton more threequels I missed, but these are the ones I remember.)
I think the reason three always seems to be the issue is it always runs like this: First film/game releases - it's excellent or good but feels great, people love it and want more. Second film/game releases - creators can see how to expand on it, fix issues, really happy the first did well so adrenaline to make a big sequel is there. Third film/game releases - creators are a bit "what can we do now?" and/or staff is bored and want to do something new.
Killed would imply that almost no one plays any Payday game period. Which isn’t true. PD2 still have a lot of players. However PD3 fucking bombed. (I mean I like it but I’m also bias as fuck, sue me.)
Payday 3 was dead for me bcuz there was no progression. The whole reason I liked Payday 2 was that there was infinite progression based on how much money you extracted. But in payday 3 money doesnt matter... Yeah... A bank robbing game where money means nothing... I know
It would have been the same even if they delayed it. A lot of these changes are from public backlash. You could delay it for another 10 years and it would still release with a challenge based progression system because their idiot designers need massive backlash to even consider they might have been wrong.
if the lead devs don't know what a real payday is, giving them more time to dev it would have made the wrong game just more polished, but still the wrong game
They released it in an unfinished state at best. A lot of good features… but not enough content or features in general. Switching matchmaking servers to the new system was a disaster as well. I also heard there’s only 6 heists and no skill system anymore?! This is probably the end of the studio. Hopefully they either learn from their mistakes quickly or the next developer that buys the franchise out knows how to make games
What ruins this game for me the most, is the lack of transparency with the community. It makes a lot of these updates feel so incredibly underwhelming with how little they speak about what’s coming in the future for the game and when they do, 60% of the time they don’t really give us anything to work with or even worth mentioning. It’s also ironic that when they do put out a big update that is exciting, the servers stop working because too many people came back and are trying to play it at once which then takes us back to why the hell do they still have networking server issues, six months after release when there’s so little people still playing regularly? Honestly though I’m not expecting Starbreeze to come out and be more transparent about their servers since they are in my eyes, the type of company to be hesitant to even talk about an “unready button” being added to the game. Rant over, have a nice day. ❤
Just started the video, so I don’t know if you mention it or not in the video… but the new Payday 3 dev team shut down one of my favorite payday-inspired Roblox games called “Notoriety”. The original devs were fine with the game and allowed it to stay up. I unfortunately began to really get into the game, right before it was taken down… WHICH SUCKS
Oh the irony, a game about stealing money dies from corporate greed.
And it’s always the little guys (Overkill devs) who end up paying the most. Paying for STARBREEZ’E mismanagement and ridiculous investments.
…and FRANK DARABONT’s lack of understanding (WALKING DEAD CREATOR) for pulling the plug on the game before they could even improve it. Seriously F that guy!!
Then forced to develop PD3 with a very minimal budget and time.
OVERKILL got gang raped from all ends.
mayham dressed in a suit.
thank you obama
Oh wow, body reveal
I cant wait for hand reveal
I can't wait for hair reveal
Not gonna tell him he's looking good? Ill tell him. You looking good.
@@Hotpepersog0:10
I can’t wait for co-
the fact that most payday 3 ''fixed features'' like opening and closing doors were already made by modders in payday 2...
It's still a positive change between entries in the franchise because mods aren't a core part of the experience. Can we stop pretending mods are official content when judging sequels?
@@plebisMaximus what i meant was modders do more than devs with small QOL aditions and even go out of their way to optimize and fix the game bugs. I don't want to shit on devs they made a game after all but after earning that kind of money and still not showing their game the support it deserves is bothering me. They could be good but very incompetent.
Not when starbreeze keeps taking mods as ideas for new content.
Happened in the later part of payday 2 and I'm sure it'll keep happening in 3 going forward
Where do you think the idea of the gas grenade enemy and "you can now carry two bags" skill came from.@@plebisMaximus
Less than 1% of players download mods. Devs making those ideas default features is actually a great idea.
@@BungieStudios For payday 2, I'd say it's 20% or even higher
The phenomenal success of Helldivers 2 shows that people have been starved for a solid group PvE game and by extension shows just how badly Starbreeze dropped the bag with Payday 3. All they had to do was make a game that was fun to play, and they instead chose to make a grindy, buggy, glorified storefront. They could've just made a game that was essentially an updated version of Payday 2 with QoL and gameplay improvements and knocked it out of the park.
It’s almost impressive how low the bar is, and how these companies still manage to limbo under it.
Not even a Solid group PvE game. Gamers just crave a solid game and it seems like almost nobody is able to provide that anymore.
@@theequalizer694exactly, like baldurs gate 3, I've never touched DnD in my life and never thought I would. But that game is a 10/10 for me and one of my favorite games ever played. All it takes is a solid game with solid writing and a solid art style.
@@theequalizer694exactly! People play sf6 or ac6 not because they are die hard fighter fans but cause those games are good!
You know what the funny part is? That last bit about making "the abomination" essentially a updated payday 2 more specifically, that is what a "sequel" is. Not this hogwash that "innovates" the title. Sequels are supposed to resemble the previous, it would be understandable if the abomination didn't resemble payday 1 because payday 2 shifted into the goofier side of things so it was expected the abomination would resemble Payday 2. No, it was a classic case of developers needing to leave innovation to minor things or entirely new titles. Otherwise you get an abomination that isn't a sequel while calling itself one and that is why I don't call it "Payday 3", it doesn't deserve that title. It's one thing to shift away, it's another to completely change face. You won't see golden spoons or mach speed dodge builds in the abomination. Only a armour system and resource management very few if any likes.
This video was an eye opener for me because I never knew overkill actually made so many games that flopped.This is why it always felt weird to me how it took so long for them to make a newer payday game despite payday-2 using such a old engine.I always thought overkill was an indie dev who suddenly got famous cause of payday but seems like I was wrong and honestly imagine if they actually focused on a new payday game with their own engine,how much better the gameplay actually will be.But instead of doing that they took unreal engine and just made such a old boring way to make the game with less content.
Not a super accurate view of game development. The engine is usually the first thing to be blamed when a game isn't great, but it's almost never an actual cause. GTA V was built on an old engine made for a ping pong game, even with the most specific engines you can refit it to your needs, and in the case of Payday 3, that wasn't needed at all, since UE is made largely with shooters in mind, and you can feel that, the shooting feels great in PD3. The lack of content is a deliberate choice by the team, not a limitation. In fact, had they made a new engine, the game would've taken far longer to release or been released with even less content. Sure, they could've just used the Diesel engine Payday 2 runs on, but with how old and buggy it is, the amount of work they'd have to put in wouldn't be worth it. Picking UE is probably the best move they could've made.
It's not about the engine, it's about how you use it.
You significantly underestimate just how much work it is to make your own engine. Unreal is fine for a game like Payday. Unreal is for for most things. The problem is not having veteran unreal developers who know how to get the best out of it.
it wasn't just and old engine. it was THE WRONG enginge. and for that reason console players got gone by the wayside.
Overkill and starbreeze are the same company. Overkills just a subsidiary.
Don't forget that the franchise's success is not even by Starbreeze. It's by the original Overkill Developers (most of which are now part of 10 chambers)
I played payday 2 on the 360, god I was in middleschool around that time I'm in college now but I'm currently on a payday 3 sucks binge watch just wasting time and every vid they brought up starbreeze and I was like wtf I swore it was overkill or ultrakill that were the devs, to lazy to look it up but shit was tripping me the fuck out 😂
The sheer amount of money Bo Anderson was allowed to basically just throw away before he was finally let go is genuinely shocking. Either no one at Starbreeze had any sense of foresight, or no one was willing to tell him no. I really hate to see Payday go down like this, it's such a fantastic and unique franchise
I should have seen the writing on the wall and demanded a refund when us Playstation players didn't get our pre-order bonuses a full month after and one of my friends to this day hasn't got his gold edition items or their cross over with dying light and its dl point. My only regret is I don't remember the slogan used to call it a scam... oh, and I played Payday 3 to much to get a refund.
@@ChangedCauseYT-HateFoxNames"The real heist was on your wallet"
The main issue with live service games is games are made to be live service. The reason Payday 2 was allowed to live almost a decade off DLC releases is because it was released a solid, complete and fun game, same with GTA V, the competitive Valve titles, and so many others from the early to mid-2010's. Then a bunch of investors who know absolutely nothing about the industry they've bought their way into noticed how profitable these games were and they try to recreate the success artificially, leading to an artificial experience that nobody would ever want to play. The industry has been taken over by wallstreet bastards and the artistry in AAA gaming is dead so a room full investors can nod their heads as a fellow investor talks about an industry he has no experience in or love for and how he intends to wring every last penny out of it. Game publishers aren't entertainment companies anymore, they're tech companies, with all the worker abuse and growth driven business strategies that comes with and it's cost us all hope of ever seeing a good AAA game again. It's very fortunate self-publishing has gotten so easy these days so indie devs can carry some of the weight.
This guy gets it
Even though I agree with your comment, you missed the fact that payday 2 was also in a poor state on its release. Despite that they were actively updating and fixing the game, mix that with the fact that the gameplay was simple to understand yet had a lot of mechanics only a long time player would know, it made for a very good combination that let the game thrive
@@putcatfacehere2045 I stand corrected in the case of Payday 2 then. Admittedly I didn't actually buy the game until 2016, but my point still stands concerning the industry in general.
@@putcatfacehere2045 I dont think he really had to say that, because the guy who made the video basically said the same thing and this is a comment on it.
It might've been in a poor state on release, but it was revolutionary compared to the first payday, and the game was clearly designed with fun in mind which is whats most important. You can just tell from playing payday 3 around launch that the game was released in a latch ditch effort to make profits for a quarter, so the studio wasnt just closed lol.
@@putcatfacehere2045Same with GTA Online. It was unplayable for a long time. Actually I think GTA:Online only survived because of the name GTA.
For me one of Payday 3's biggest sins is the complete lack of a dopamine rush I get from obtaining bags and finishing heists. Payday 2 actively enticed you to gamble your earnings for just one more bag. I really miss the indicators of how much each bag of loot was worth every time you secured one. It made my monkey brain get excited.
Yep, all that matters is that sweet sweet challenge xp!
Yeah, securing the diamond for the first time and seeing a couple of extra zeroes on the loot secured indicator was such a big dopamine rush.
Now I steal a bag of cash or supposedly super expensive electronic components and I see nothing.
That little guitar noise that plays every time you secure a bag was so satisfying.
Cook off is the epidemy of that lmao, when you finally sell a batch and see that money rise up ? Feels better than cold water at 3AM
Real. When the value of each bag was flashed across the screen it made that monke neuron activation "haha numbers go up brrr". It encourages heisters to loot just one more bag of money/painting/artifact/gold, and play just 10 minutes longer to defend the decision to go for that one more bag of loot. Lord knows when I first played PD2 with my irl friends, we stuck in 60 whole minutes in freaking Jewellery Store Heist because we were four absolute noobs playing a couple difficulties too high going for that extra 10k dollars or whatever it was back then lol.
I wish I could say you were wrong, I have 3K hours on Payday 2 and about 300 on Payday 3 and there are just so many things that boggles my mind about payday 3, everything from downgraded menus such as being unable to name loadouts or link cosmetic sets to those loadouts or having all the variations of a cosmetic being separate which just bloats the store to the lack of RNG variation within heists making them lack replay value. There’s no variation in loot amounts, so you can’t be excited over something like getting 25 bags in a big bank instead of 21, nope, it’s just stagnant and repetitive. The lack of heists is also a big turn off, seriously, add a hand full of simple heists like bank heist, diamond store or go bank, short experiences where the core gameplay can shine, not every heist needs to be a spectical. Overkill weapons are a cool system but I really liked being able to create wild builds in Payday 2 like Katana wielding Sociopath with a flamethrower and grenade launcher and with Overkill weapons I’m afraid that they limit those choices, just like how SMGs are all primaries now despite basically being worse ARs, like are you seriously going to take a Ziv Comando as a primary? Meanwhile revolvers beat out the single true sniper primary since there’s nearly no utility to weapons anymore, you don’t supplement what’s lacking in your primary in your secondary because basically no weapon has utility, wether it be shield killing dozer busting or crowd control basically any weapon can do anything, some just do it better than others making some weapons completely pointless, Payday 2 kind of had a problem with some guns basically being reskins with worse or better stats but there were enough guns and enough variation that those were outliers. The skill system is also massively flawed since every skill requires 1 point which means that all skills should be even, they aren’t, perk decks while sometimes limiting created an anchor to build the build around, if they ever wanna do something like Grinder again they’re just gonna have to make you spend 4 points in your already limited amount of skill points to get the full effect. All of this together with how slow development is compared to what Payday 2 had and Deep Silver wanting to force in micro transactions to a game series that really won’t benefit from it just makes Payday 3 bittersweet, so much potential but with so many systems that are by all accounts complete failures that need reworking they’re gonna have their hands full with just catching up, let alone making it good. Would hate to see it end like this since I’ve been with the franchise since I was 12 when the John Wick character pack came out and it’s how I’ve met some of my best friends. In conclusion: Sadness :(
Don’t worry, Den of Wolves can still be good.
@@peep0705hopefully
This style of video suits you. Especially with the green screen and costumes matching the topic.
Can't wait to see the hitman outfit
Yeah, I really liked his outfits. A long with saying shit thats been in my head for a while. Subbed
11:21
Perhaps am missing something as haven't touched the game for a while. But last I recall, you could filter your search for specific difficulties and/or heists or contractors of said heists to only have those kinds of lobbies pop up.
Yup, you can do that.
You can, but there still isnt a guarantee youll get the mission you want, at least without waiting 5-10 mins for it to randomly appear
i am cautiosly optimistic for operation medic bag but im trying not to get my hopes up
Yeah let's hope it makes a Sea of Thieves or No Man's Sky Reboot
This has been my mindset for the past 4 months
😂😂😂😂
I'm not even looking at PD3, I called it a bust when they released with no offline mode and their idea to "fix" the issue is not a fix at all. offline means offline, no middle ground.
From what they say in the blog, it sounds very cool and what we want. But we need to see how they execute it.
With unstable internet in my region, online only is VERY fatal flaw
This is the first time i see WildGold making a physical appearance.
I will not be surprised to find out Deep Silver had a hand in this like they did with Saints Row
Dont forget sweet baby inc
Them, and Epic games. I didn't even buy the game thanks to the latter, though I have 2000h of PD2. Shitty servers, Chinese spyware, always online.. shitty mod support, shitty anticheat.. let alone trying to force people to join their platform through buying exclusive rights to sell certain games. Goes on and on, Epic ruins everything they touch
@@Shadowswolf9666 We're out here to figure out why Payday 3 flopped, not be racist.
@@marcfyre ...How the scrap is is that racist...? And we already know why Payday 3 flopped: sheer incompetence and bag fumbling to such a degree you'd think they were tumbleweeds. Don't need Carmelita Fox's help to bust this case ya sees.
i checked on saturday night (10 pm) and the playercount was 137. also i love the trope of removing basic features the previous games had, only to be kinda added back and expect praise as if its the second coming of christ
Waving around a fucking unready button like it's a back of the box feature lmao. The game's in a pretty dire situation.
Modern game dev baby 😂
FINALLY! FINALLY someone tells the full REAL story!! All these new (and old) players that have no clue. Every time I bring these points up in a debate, people think I'm full of ish when hardly anyone besides OG's have any idea what I'm talking about. Amazing and accurate video brother, it's sad it even had to come to this but this is the world we live in.
Yeah I really appreciate this video, what happened to OVERKILL was messed up. People should know. They got seriously gang raped from all ends….
But my only complaint is he skipped over how big of a scumbag FRANK DARABONT was for pulling the plug on the WALKING DEAD game before they could even fix/improve it. Seriously messed them up bad.
I mean he said they violated their contract cause they promised him (FRANK D. BAG) a “hit game”… the game could of been really good by now, which would of helped the development of PD3.
A lot more blame should be put on FRANK DARABONT. I got no more respect for the guy
Funny you went so quickly over Andersson "fired"
Cause I remembered he ran of with the money and the Swedish federal reserves were looking for them, with Starbreeze getting raided too...
god i hope you're not lying, cause that is hillarious
Omg I almost forgot about all that controversy. I think the raid ended up not being as bad as it sounded tho.
But yeah he kind of skipped over how big of a scumbag FRANK DARABONT was also, for pulling the plug on the WALKING DEAD game before they could even improve it. Real D bag move. Zero understanding or care for OK’s dilemma. Seriously F FRANK DARABONT.
What? Creators of a game franchise where you heist banks and raid drug cartels and stuff gets raided?
And the best part, they decided in the lead up to pd3 that they would allow pd2 on epic games store which was literally the worst update in the history of the game and has caused the game to become so unstable that in my case I literally crashed when trying to open chat mid heist
My YU-Gi-Oh ass read "Pot of Greed"
This is a great video that was well put together and very eye opening. I always knew Starbreeze was a bad dev studio but I didn't realize they were this bad. It's sad. Payday 2 is one of my all time favorites.
They’re actually the publisher/owner of OVERKILL. And also 2/3 to blame for the whole mess. With 1/3 being FRANK DARABONT for cancelling their contract on WALKING DEAD game.
I like how in the entire ''improvements'' section you have only talked about stealth mechanics which are one of the only things payday 3 gets praised in.
I think that’s the real tragedy of pd3, is that the core gameplay is a BLAST in my opinion. I loved the game for the 3 days of early access before the public release, but once the server problems hit, plus the repetition from the lack of alternate ways to play the heists coupled with the terrible xp system, I haven’t played the game in months
My words exactly. I do still drop in for a couple heists every now and then, but it's not something I want to grind like PD2 was. I still haven't even tried out the new heist yet, despite getting it on release day thanks to having gold edition. The new stealth mechanics are so much fun, but I just really don't feel like navigating the worst menus ever made just so I can wait a minute or more to get into a solo lobby, only to get no reward at all from finishing a heist.
If the core gameplay was a blast, people would still be playing it. The problems that it has can be forgiven if it were actually a fun game.
payday 2 legit people have been heisting the same 10 most popular maps for straight up 10 years with no progression except some extra infamy levels YET it's FUN
No, I can say the gunplay is fine, the gameplay is not.
It's severely lacking and uninteresting compared to even release day payday 2
@@AlexTechiebro the core gameplay is fun it’s just theres no content no rng and gets repetitive but the game at its core is dumb fun
Just like borderlands 3 the story is terrible theres way to much talking and is repetitive but the core gameplay is amazing
I was excited for Payday 3 when it came out. The sole reason I didn't end up buying it was because it was exclusively live service. Lost all interest...
Payday to me is the franchise that has massive potential but the developers just don't want it to happen.
The console releases of Payday 2 really shown that, they ditched DLC for it (at least on some formats) and the patches etc took forever to come out/didn't come out at all.
Payday with crossplay would be great to bring everyone together.
Agreed. Maybe thats all they should've done. Fix Payday 2,by bringing in features like opening and closing doors,fixing detection system,and the moving bodies around part. That wouldve been cheaper and gotten them more money in the long run. And maybe if they are so desperate for it,just release skins and stuff like COD. Or to make players happy,bring in more maps,mire weapons. They couldve make it a game that never gets old. Now its doing to die.
Payday 2 was the reason I upgraded my PC instead of getting a games console. It made me realise how much a modding community can carry a game.
Once I installed Baldurs Gate 3 it made me realise how shit Payday 3 is.
My bro (Payday 3) implement lobby unready button 6 months after its release 💀. I mean, I love Payday 2 racking up almost 600 hours of playtime & not even own all of their dlcs but it's silly goofy fun, the OST was completely vibes & memorable same as KF 2. Seeing Pd 3 current state is sad, but still hoping that they recover. Great videos
When the season pass for payday 2 was heavily discounted, I still bought every dlc individually because I wanted to support the devs. I genuinely cannot believe payday 3 ended up like this
Wild gold eye reveal ⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉⁉
And arms.
@@utilizator1701And torso.
Should've made more dlc for PayDay 2 and make it a live service game.
a big thing with the promotion of the game is they had this really good launch event for influencers that were sponsored to play the game before launch, the game before it came out and most of them just sucked off overkill and starbreeze.
I would go as far as to say it began when Almir famoulsy lied about MTX and then introduced the safe and drill loot box mechanics.
A lot of veteran payday players bailed from that moment, this was the death knell and start of the greed.
The people making these games must have been getting massive headaches hearing about stupid wastes of money like a VR park in Dubai. Dubai?! The place KNOWN for being a wasteful money-sink?? God. Feel so bad for them. They could have done so much with all that cash.
You should have seen Payday 2 when loot boxes were released, Payday 2's number is lost a lot of old school players cuz Almir said he would never do it and screwed so many people that trusted him there was another event revolving gold masks of the original crew that ticked off a bunch of people too they've been doing it for years and yes they did it to themselves hopefully they sell it to someone that actually cares because Starbreeze does not
It was the CEO Bo Anderson that wanted them
0:15 Helldivers 2 proven that a good quality game can have a stable amount of players in almost 2 months.
Fun fact, Helldivers 2 has received more content updates than Payday 3, actually adding new "stratagems", infact, depending on your time zone, they released two new ones today/yesterday as of typing this. They also have a farmable premium currency that is also cheaper than other games premium currency and have released two battle passes in the two months Helldivers 2 has been out, released a new enemy and side objective related to it and fixed countless bugs that made certain weapons unusable after a week or so. They removed planet modifiers/reworked hated ones and completely removed some mission types because people hated them. *DID I MENTION ALL THE ABOVE WAS OVER TWO MONTHS?*
Fun fact: they also had the luxury of being able to develop the game under much better circumstances.
It’s like the difference of having to make a parachute within X amount of time
VS.
OVERKILLS’s circumstances. Having to make a parachute while falling toward the ground with X amount of time it takes til you hit the ground….
So which parachute u think will work better?
yeah....uh, this aged badly
Great summary. I mean in their next update the unready button is on the highlight list. As if that's crazy hard to implement. As a programmer I can assure you it's simple and just a few lines of code.
And yet it still took them a month and a half to implement lol. Pretty much all that came with the patch too. I really hope following updates are a little meatier if they want to save the game.
WildGold i love your new style of editing and video making
Deserved. As much as I love PayDay 2 it is an incredibly flawed game that kept milking players for DLCs and had a story that jumped the shark for no reasons . I absolutely hate PD2's gameplay nowadays and feel like they really ruined it instead of doing any fixes or improvments.
And cutting ✂️ off the console fanbase entirely leaving Payday 2 fans on console being hungry for content or just straight up leave and go to other series cause no one wants to spend money on PC.
great vid gold didint expect the body reveal. Im quite curios what games will you cover on the channel next
Im a payday veteran and the worst thing is that payday 3 apart from being bad have also some really cool features like hostage, armor and health system, stealth and it's so pitiful to see all the developers work just being vanished by the management
You really like the armor system?
It was "fine" but there was no variety on the gameplay for it and they were extremely stubborn to fix the dependency on armor bags.
Good to see you make a new viedio again has been a while keep up the good work king god bless 🙏
the problem with the game isn't necessarily because it is a life service game but rather how said life service game is serviced (this is the case for any LS game).
everyone who enjoys and plays a game consistently enough is more than reasonable to want it to be supported through DLC/expansions/updates for as long as possible.
the problem is rather the developers and publishers churning out enough content at a pace fast enough considering the current amount of content already available and charging a fair amount for the new content (if it isn't a free update) considering what you got for what you paid in the base game. that and not feeling like certain new content is important enough to the point it should be included in the base game with a free update but it being locked away behind a paid DLC.
another problem of payday 3 that hasn't anything to do with it being necessarily a life service game, is the amount of QoL updates/abilities/whatever you might call it that the prequel already had gotten through its development not being present in the new iteration.... all that development and with the new game you seem to have forgotten all that.... back to square 1...
finally, a problem with any sequel to a LS game that also wishes to be a LS game is that the previous game will for a couple of years (depending on how long the previous game was supported) always have much more content than the new iteration. It's just a losing battle to wish for the opposite even if the team for the new game pumps a lot of content rather quickly, so to entice the players the developers while still developing content for the previous game, understand why the community truly likes and plays the game, what it isn't enjoyed by many and what critical components should be focused and developed for the sequel. a failure to do so only leads to a half-assed release, where the community doesn't enjoy the new game as much as the previous one, and a game where the company will need to take several years just to make it at least as enjoyable as the previous one in a different way. its a problem that's compounded with every release of content that is perceived as good for the previous game and worst even if the content is paid as there will be an even bigger incentive to remain on the previous game due to the time and money invested so far on it.
the time taken whilst developing a LS game shouldn't be only used to develop new content but also to understand better its player base so that the core and QoL ideas of the LS sequel can better match the expectations of the players.
This problem is also extremely evident with several Paradox games where the publisher as of right now has several LS games and is now trying to develop slowly sequels to all of them. Yet due to so many years of content already being developed for the latter games the new games are also having problems getting their own playerbase. When you start developing a LS game and it becomes your main source of revenue the publisher is essentially walking into a trap, where they are doomed if they stop making content for its game which is much cheaper than developing a new game from the ground up, and doomed if the continue as it will become increasingly hard to eventually make them switch onto a sequel.
It's a symptom of investors buying up all the stake in pretty much every major publisher. The executives who started a lot of the older gaming companies were nerds who made games themselves, now there isn't one important person in the industry who didn't get their for the sole purpose of making a return on investment and they have absolutely no interest in games outside of that, so they don't know what makes a game people want to buy and play, they can only look at what other people are doing to replicate their success. You see Payday 2 still making money after decade and you know that's something you want in on, so you just do what they did, make something barebones and add on to it with paid DLC. What they don't realise (nor care to consider) is Payday 2 was released in 2013, when the amount of content it had at launch was pretty normal for a studio of their size. Same thing with PDX. CK2 was "only" 40 euro and it's hard to convince a new player to drop 300 on DLC for a game they might not even like, so let's start over and make a much smaller CK3 that we can then go on to profit off for a decade again. Of course, it's not like they could've supported CK2 for all eternity and a new title in the series was inevitable, but it's that mindset of releasing a platform instead of a game that pops up again and again. They suffered for it with Imperator, and everything released since then _has_ been better, but not by so much I'd say they're doing great. Not to mention how they're treating EU4 these days. But far past just these 2 studios, it's a problem plaguing the entire industry and it won't be solved unless we have a crash that scares off all the investors.
People seem to forget this is how the first and second payday launched too. Especially payday 2. There was like 5 heists and maybe 15 guns in the game and all the dlc was pricy at launch.
Somehow overkill managed to get away with it with payday 2 but youd think theyd have learned a little by payday 3.
you really think but honestly in the current gaming climate its always the flock waiting for the next big thing and pd3 with its slow response time to patches and content, they've pretty much sunk at this point and the outdated paid dlc model isnt really bringing new players and keeping old ones in.
like you said pd2 launched crappy but it sorted a bunch relatively quick. i just dont see the company lasting much longer to see it get there like the previous game did
Payday 2 got two whole weapon packs, a difficulty rebalance, reintroduced cloakers, 5 new heists and fixed many base game issues in the same time frame and a smaller team than payday 3.
Also it had solid gameplay, which 3 does not.
Always online IS QUITE LITERALLY the main reason I and about 60 of my friends straight up REFUSED to buy or give Payday 3 a chance. Regardless how good the game play is. It's bot a small meaningless fault. It's a decent chunk of the reason Payday 3 saw a lot of it's refunds. Also as far as Operation Medic Bag, I'm reserving ALL judgement until I see it implemented.
60 friends huh...
@@wildgold well, there's more on the list on steam, but the 60 that are with me in the gaming community I'm a part of basically all agreed.
It's really soured me on the whole thing too. Absolutely love the core gameplay, but I despise how long it takes me to get to that gameplay, at least a minute of server searching for each and every heist. Had I spent that minute in Payday 2, I would've gone from booting the game to having control of my character. It's ridiculous.
@@wildgold when you were in ohio. couldn't look you in the gyatt
Whoever is in charge of those financial decisions is very incompetent.
I do not doubt that the decision to buy a joke of an engine if investigated in court would uncover a huge rollback to the pockets of a person who authorized its purchase. I do not understand how such big financial decisions were allowed to make by a person who never saw or dealt with this kinds of money in his entire life. I could only imagine how many useless shit this person bought with company's money.
wasn't he the owner?
Oh, so that's why the payday 2 dlc stuff was so weird, I kind of followed what the studio was up to, but even I had literally no idea they made TWO whole games in that time.
I’ll never forget buying payday crimewave edition release of payday 2 on Xbox one. I was so excited to play with my friends and meet new people to play with online. It was my only pre order ever. The game was broken at launch and for a whole year after release. I couldn’t play with anyone. That was so devastating for a young high schooler. I never pro ordered again. I wish they would release good games that worked at launch.
Is it bad that I personally hope the game does full on die and ceases to be supported? It should be a lesson learnt for Starbreeze, if they keep the game alive, we all already know full well that theyre still going to be greedy and only give their loyal players the absolute bare minimum to keep the game going, not even to make it enjoyable. And then once Payday 3 has officially died, we can all go back to Payday 2 and actually enjoy the series once again for what it should be.
I fully stand behind you. I already know us gold pre-order players are going to be screwed, hell, I bet that is why the dlc was so expensive and why they haven'treleased shit, so the one other update at this rate they release so us Gold owners get barely anything, then they can charge the same because "that's the normal dlc cost" so they can squeeze money they don't deserve to the blind and loyal. Us ps5 players got the worst, we didn't even get our pre-order bonuses until a full month after early access, one of my friends which I regret asking to get the game still hasn't received his pre-order bonuses.
That’s incredibly selfish and self centered.
Do you not understand that OVERKILL devs had nothing to do with the bad decision making by STARBREEZE since they have no choice but to do things by their command? That they will pay the most, with their livelihoods without a doubt. They would no doubt be closed down if PD3 closes.
But no no, they definitely should all pay since the game didn’t meet your expectations. You didn’t get your 70 dollars worth (which can be made in a half a day’s work at a minimum wage job)
Seriously tho, how can u actually feel that way after watching this video?
@@feartrain1282 wasnt PD3 40 usd? unless you were referring to some higher edition
Operation Medicbag is like trying to nurse a bear attack wound with a bandaid.
In defense of the ''recent releases'' argument : Helldivers 2 released recently and EVERYONE is playing it. Can't forget Lethal Company either!
Also yeah its still 90% greed. Live service is horrible.
I knew starbreeze was greedy when they took down notoriety right before pd3 release
Closing doors, and carrying hostages doesn’t mean much, when every other feature and system in the game is completely soulless, or just bad.
You can’t tell me developers at starbreeze have passion for this game, they see it as a paycheck, otherwise we would have had everything in the dumb “operation medic bag” already in the game at launch.
If anyone actually enjoys Payday 3 for what it is, I hope you enjoyed getting scammed.
They wanted too much too fast, the CEO was a dreaming fool.
in all fairness no mans sky spent years working on that coem back
The thing that made me realize payday 3 was not going to work was when they fired the creator of the music in payday 2, Simon Viklund
One of the biggest regret in my life is pre ordering this game on ps5 also gold edition
Lmaoo
rip bro got robbed
I blame the youtubers who shilled for this game and pretended not to be sponsored
I feel so sorry for your wallet R.I.P to those poor dollars that died in a painful way
Preordering the game and buying a ps5 in the first place too 😭
What turned me off from the game was the way they priced the DLC. Payday 2 content was cheaper at release, and you got more
They finally did it, the meta level of Payday the Heist is complete. Because we got robbed blind :)
Honestly as much as i love payday 2 im hoping this happens. They knew what they were releasing when they put out PD3. An extremely undercooked mess of several systems that have no cohesion with each other. Over 2 months for a day one patch and dlc already being pushed out is unacceptable. What happened to releasing finished games? Starbreeze are pathetic and i hope they go the same way voilition did.
The only a few things I want to add on this:
Another aspect that hurt the game were the expectations (players wanting "Payday 2 with a touch of Payday 1," the devs saying "it's a mix of the two, yes," but ending in a "Payday 1 with a dash of payday 2" so the Loud heists are not what people were wanting, despite players sharing their thoughts in opposition to this)
Tacked onto that is two words "hype train." Only one other game I've noticed get hyped up but not quite deliver was Halo Infinite. It's been 2 years now and that game is only now starting to become "80% of what players wanted at launch." (although this may also be related to rushing things out the door before people would be happy with it)
Last is that I don't really blame Starbreeze/Overkill for some of the deeper cuts (always online, intense DLC/microtransationcs) but I will point the blame to the Embracer Group (shown as the same people that shut down Volition of Saint's Row fame).
It's not that payday the heist is a bad basis for gameplay.
It's that payday 3 failed to deliver on aspects of both games.
Everything that 3 does that is comparable to PDTH (such as lower but tougher enemies or the challenge progression) was done WAY better in PDTH.
payday 3 is the most soulless game i have seen in 2 years. the entire game feels like it was made from a plan and not designed
Summary: Starbreeze Overkilled the budget.
I was a massive payday 2 fan. The only reason I didn't get 3 was the ultimate edition getting early access. If you pre order you should get early access if it's a option. I flat out refuse to buy any game that has an edition that has anything apart from cosmetic value
They really put PAY into Payday
i appraciate the research and time You put into this amazing video, sad to learn how the developers of one of my favourite games from my childhood wasted their chance,.I’m so glad i found Your channel, You deserve much more views and subscribers for all your work. Can’t describe how much your hitman videos helped me :)
God dude, i hope and pray that payday 3 will get a no mans sky but it seems less likely every day
When the first time I heard of Payday 3 I was expecting gta 5 multiplayer style open world crime system with your own stashouses where you could plan your heists and actually drive, escaping police kind of game mechanics. This game seems so disappointing, when I first time saw the trailer I was like Wtf have they been doing all these years. This video explains what they invested their time in. I got the same feeling when I saw CS2 trailer.
I played Syndicate on the Playstation 3. Bought it many years later on PC, one of those underrated games tbh. I had a good time with it.
It baffles me wheb people say stealth is better in pd3. They have clearly only played control stealth missions. Which is like 1% of payday 2 stealth.
It's still better mechanically, it's just that the current pool of heists don't offer much freedom compared to later payday 2 stealth possible heists.
6k hours on payday 2 btw.
“Let’s go to the club I heard Bethany is on tonight”
“Sir we just want some paper”
8:00 This may be a hot take, but I preferred the bodybags mechanic from 2. You could build yourself as a 'cleaner' type and bring lots of bodybags + reduced penalty for civ deaths. It was fun to quickly knock a civ out, bodybag them and throw them in a dumpster to clear the perimeter. No idea why you would kill everyone on Diamond Store of all heists, that's one of the easiest to stealth without hurting any civ. Even if you play solo for some reason, you can just keep shouting at civs if you run out of zip ties, controlling the crowd as heisters would. The skill tree in Payday 3 barely lets you do any fun things like that, every build and loadout just feels the same. Good video btw, I just didn't really agree with this part.
Great video that showed exactly what I loved about Payday 2, love that you pointed out what they did right but also very wrong. They fixed so much, and did a lot of things right in Payday 3... but bizarrely decided to omit CORE features. And all the waste of money from the company. Really disappointing. My crew of friends and I, who played 200 hours of Payday 2 together, were incredibly excited to do it again in 3. We heard of the issues and held back on purchasing, saying "oh, we will wait until they patch it soon.." Months later, and none of us are willing to touch it. How sad that Starbreeze has wasted all this potential. I have not seen your vids before but I like the matching costumes, really cool.
Payday 3 full game feels like a early beta
It’s missing a ton from pd2 that I’m recently new to that game that I can tell like weapon mods like what bullets you want and how fully customisation of it
It needs to release a lot more to the game before they can charge dlc and even a carry over from guns and items you got from pd2 would be awesome
A side store, related with Payday but ended by starbreeze.
Once upon a time, a random guy remaked PD2 on roblox. Overkill noted it, liked it and told Brick (guy who made pd2 roblox) to change the name.
After the name being changed, (Payday 2 to Heist), it remained online and updated. Years passed, Heist became Notoriety, Starbreeze detected Notoriety which was removing most PD features and Notoriety got a DMCA strike upon detection, at the month of September in 2023.
If i knew about starbreeze past i probably would've not bought the gold preorder version. I regret that decision to this day
Same. My first preorder and likely last because the only developer I have full faith in is Miyazaki (The head developer if I remember correctly of Elden ring( I likely got swamp man's official job title wrong.))
This will go down as one of the biggest fumbles of the bag in modern gaming history. People will be studying this for years to come.
That guy who got fired almost buried Star breeze single handedly.
It's over after PD3 fail.
Them abandoning consoles back in 2016 and refusing to update it further really didn't help with their reputation. Any console player with common sense will refuse to be scammed again and refuse to buy payday 3
I shed no tears. Starbreeze was told time and time and time again, not to make a live service. Don't listen, don't profit..ez...gg.
payday 3 was the first time i preordered a game in a very long time... and i bought the ultimate edition. learned my lesson lmao
These IRL greenscreen vids are so awesome!! Your hitman one was 🔥 too
Dude, your video quality gets better every video! Keep it up
Meh they are still going to fuck up PD2 by unwanted update, the whole thing of Starbreeze is just disgusting
We had Dead Space 3, Army of Two: the Devil's Cartel (AoT: 3, basically), Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, and now we have Payday 3. Seems like 3 seems to be a cursed number for some big budget games.
(Probably a butt-ton more threequels I missed, but these are the ones I remember.)
I think the reason three always seems to be the issue is it always runs like this:
First film/game releases - it's excellent or good but feels great, people love it and want more.
Second film/game releases - creators can see how to expand on it, fix issues, really happy the first did well so adrenaline to make a big sequel is there.
Third film/game releases - creators are a bit "what can we do now?" and/or staff is bored and want to do something new.
Well the people that had any talent in them left Overkill a long time ago.
good video, but WHY ARE YOUR BROWSER TABS CENTERED
Why does Operation Medic Bag sound like Ubisoft's Operation Health for Rainbow Six Siege
They are the same thing. The difference? To ubisofts credit they actually did somethings people liked.
Killed would imply that almost no one plays any Payday game period. Which isn’t true.
PD2 still have a lot of players.
However PD3 fucking bombed. (I mean I like it but I’m also bias as fuck, sue me.)
Payday 3 was dead for me bcuz there was no progression. The whole reason I liked Payday 2 was that there was infinite progression based on how much money you extracted. But in payday 3 money doesnt matter... Yeah... A bank robbing game where money means nothing... I know
7:56
did that double barrel shotgun... fire three times?
There's a skill for that
Aww, a reference to a more hopeful time.
the gun seem to be something similar to a Heym 55fw which is a double barrel but also has a third one that shoots a .22lr rifle round
I feel like PD3 is much more slower than PD2, and feels like you have much less control
I hope Payday 3 will become what it should’ve been. It could’ve been different if they had just delayed it and we would be singing a different song.
It would have been the same even if they delayed it. A lot of these changes are from public backlash. You could delay it for another 10 years and it would still release with a challenge based progression system because their idiot designers need massive backlash to even consider they might have been wrong.
if the lead devs don't know what a real payday is, giving them more time to dev it would have made the wrong game just more polished, but still the wrong game
Payday 2 persuaded me not to buy 3. The sheer amount of DLC despite promises that it wasn't going to become a DLCfest.
Agreed man, the fact that they are saying that the addition of basic features is a major update is just pathetic.
They released it in an unfinished state at best. A lot of good features… but not enough content or features in general. Switching matchmaking servers to the new system was a disaster as well. I also heard there’s only 6 heists and no skill system anymore?!
This is probably the end of the studio. Hopefully they either learn from their mistakes quickly or the next developer that buys the franchise out knows how to make games
What ruins this game for me the most, is the lack of transparency with the community.
It makes a lot of these updates feel so incredibly underwhelming with how little they speak about what’s coming in the future for the game and when they do, 60% of the time they don’t really give us anything to work with or even worth mentioning.
It’s also ironic that when they do put out a big update that is exciting, the servers stop working because too many people came back and are trying to play it at once which then takes us back to why the hell do they still have networking server issues, six months after release when there’s so little people still playing regularly?
Honestly though I’m not expecting Starbreeze to come out and be more transparent about their servers since they are in my eyes, the type of company to be hesitant to even talk about an “unready button” being added to the game.
Rant over, have a nice day. ❤
Just started the video, so I don’t know if you mention it or not in the video… but the new Payday 3 dev team shut down one of my favorite payday-inspired Roblox games called “Notoriety”. The original devs were fine with the game and allowed it to stay up. I unfortunately began to really get into the game, right before it was taken down… WHICH SUCKS