Dungeons and dragon's really is the answer. I was a behavioral coach for many years we used Dungeons and dragon's to practice real life social situations, how to emotions look and how to deal with them and how to work with others to achieve a common goal.
Regarding the valorization of mental health, I like to say: Labels are an Explanation, not the Destination. Unfortunately I see the latter happening much more often. The more we emphasize labels like our mental diagnoses as part of our identity the more entrenched these labels become (e.g. feedback loop), which in turn disincentivizes us from ever wanting to transcend them ("It's just who I am"). It's great mental health awareness has increased, but it also has come with a double-edged sword. ⚔
Fair point. But in our knee-jerk society we continually throw out the baby with the bath water. Without labels there is no human understanding. What we do with labels is up to us. I myself am skeptical about the way psychologists rely on too much on labels (and diagnostic dogma), but that makes me wary of psychologists, not labels. ✌
I really enjoy that Rainn pushes back here on some things and offers counterpoints. I wish more podcasts did this as effectively. Great conversation overall and great episode!
Came down here to say the same thing. Especially when Jonathan Haidt seemed to want to be more combative. Waiting for his turn to speak instead of active listening, trying to sneak in some gotchas, setting up false dichotomies, answering the questions he wanted to be asked verse directly responding. All that said, I appreciate him and his research greatly. A great push and pull from both sides, a lot of good points to mull over. Different levels of alarm to consider. Different emotional approaches to the challenges of the time.
Watching this, I was very skeptical of Haidt mostly because he doesn't seem to cite any sources for his claims, so I researched the issue further and found a great article by Candice L. Odgers that suggests Haidt's narrative is not supported by science: The great rewiring: is social media really behind an epidemic of teenage mental illness? Hopefully others find the article as intriguing as I did.
My skepticism perked up when I found easily refutable claims being made within a lot his commentary on gen z’s relationship to games and tik tok. A lot of this felt overstated when it didn’t need to be. The overstating seemed to be the basis of more grandiose claims rather than the central point which is technology is a powerful tool that kids need guidance and support with… like everything else in life.
Haidt’s book is actually full of research with the appropriate citations to the scientific data. He also keeps a substack updated with continued data and studies. He has a post about the article you mention on that substack and lays out his counter points to her article. It’s okay to have anecdotal points AND scientific data. They don’t cancel each other out.
With all due respect to Mr. Haidt, saying that the world is not a worst place in this generation is to disregard economics entirely, in a nutshell. That is because the root cause, in addition to social media issues, of the mental health crisis we are living in is precisely the increasing wealth gap. Basically, should we have a more just world in terms of opportunities, people would be more truly empowered, therefore independent, motivated, CONTENT. I apologize for the simplicity of my arguments, but hopefully I was able to express the idea of my perception in regard to the topic.
Love that these discussions are becoming the norm and even the expected. Will go back to Ep 1 after watching this - all while baking Vegan Kolaches. =P
Is he forgetting the housing crisis and recession that happened in 2008? He acts like things were great in 2012/13. Millions of people had lost their homes and jobs, in the years surrounding 2008. Lots of kids watched their parents struggling. White nationalists were making a comeback after Obama was elected. He seems to view the 2010s with some pretty strong rose colored glasses.
Haidt is following the data. Anxiety, depression, self-harm and suicide by teenage girls (with boy too to a lesser extent) started rising drastically after 2012. They did not rise drastically from 2008 onward, but 2012-2013.
25:23 Oh my lanta. Rainn, you are crushing it. Jon is a PINNACLE expert and you are going blow for blow. Not only that, you have him in a corner BUT! I think the mistake you just made caused him to, possibly, realize it. If you go to war, a bazooka would be helpful but not as a primary weapon. “It’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.” It IS good for young men to have a high emotional IQ. You are correct. Your misstep was making it an absolute. 0% and 100% claims are unwise bc 1 antidotal example puts egg on your face. And it sticks. 1% and 99% are soooo close and better option. Protect yourself. Be cautious. Use qualifiers my brotha! You are giving me the same problem Theo and BROgan give me. I can’t passively listen at work, like I like, bc the content is SLAMMED with info to process. You da man. Keep it up! My cig is out. Gotta get back to work. Imma press play again
This generation has so much access to info that they are starting to see the flaws in our society and how they can make them better. Their society will be much more efficient yet unempathetic.
No, they will be swindled by powers they don't understand who understand how the human psyche works and how to manipulate them best. They'll be so open minded that their brains will fall out and people will just be easily confused and overly emotional. Doesn't bode well. It doesn't matter how much Americans "evolve" and get more empathetic, the rest of the world is still far behind us and the powers that be don't share those same humanitarian tendencies.
He is a social psychologist…..he is taking a macro perspective and applying data in a very generalized manner. It would be foolish to apply his assertions to all people within a given demographic but it would also be foolish to dismiss the generalized pattern he has observed as being inconsequential because there may happen to be several exceptions.
Social media (yes some of UA-cam) Is horrible I’m glad I don’t have a kid I have nephews and a niece And that’s enough to worry about Glorifying mental illness….i noticed that on tiktok
I'm 53 now... and grew up in a climate crisis. Florida was supposed to be underwater by now. Funny enough, when I was in elementary school... the biggest fear was another ice age. Very difficult for me at this stage in my life to get behind what any scientists or governments are saying about climate change. Does anyone else just think it's a money grab?
it is a money grab - oil companies knew the severity of the climate crisis in the 70s and decided to spend billions upon billions to discredit the science because that was significantly cheaper than shutting down business and transitioning to alternative energy sources. it seems their propaganda campaign was quite successful.
The way you talk about your son is so warm and loving, Rainn! I wish more sons and daughters had father figures like you! May Maa bless you, your family and your work ❤
I think we're missing the fact that places and activities that were safe social settings for kids/teens are now unavailable do to large controversy and disgusting acts of the entrusted adults.
Also 42:19 about how he's never used TikTok... and yet he talks about the platform and what kids are experiencing via it with [unearned and undeserved] authority..
I know that Haidt has a daughter who was 9 years old in 2018, so she'd be about 15 now. But if you are saying personal experience raising children trumps honestly obtained and fairly used data, I would disagree. While I'm skeptical about data within the social sciences and cautious about its application and the conclusions drawn from it, I believe that data which was properly collected, reported, and objectively analyzed, paints a more accurate picture of childhood in general than the experience of having been a parent. Being a parent does not make anyone an expert on the general state of child raising in America as a whole.
@@WillyPDX94 I was referring to his interpretation of the data, which doesn't seem to show any deep understanding of the qualitative nature of the research. And his interpretation seems heavily based on an ideology that has political goals that to me undermine compassion. He's just wrong on a lot of stuff and I don't understand why he gets platformed.
Love Soul Boom but with all due respect to Jonathan, I believe this interview would've gone completely wrong on any other podcast. There's a scent of bias for me during the beginning of this episode that just made me kind of... question if I should even continue watching. Then I pictured Dwight taking over the interview and I was good lol (FYI Born in early 90's)
I love that you are both able to have a civil conversation and yet disagree with one another, yet you don't get defensive or anxious. We need more of this!
I always say, if people were hanging Trump flags in my neighborhood when I was a teen they wouldn't have been there by the end of the next weekend. Instead my town is full of them.
I wonder if what Rainn is hearing from his children and taking as compassion isn't actually anxiety coming out. I have a lot of compassion but I also worry about others and everything in the world to the degree that it's irrational. I think many Gen Zers are overwhelmed. They knew too much too soon because of social media and they continue to be bombarded by negativity.
29:50 Beeing self aware in a world that shows us costant catastrophees everywere and no way to fight them has a great part in why people are depressed. We are constantly bombarded with bad news, and developing critical thinking means to not be delusional. Of course middle class religious people (not spiritual, I mean people that haven't questioned the religion they were born in) is less depressed, because there is no incentivation from their environment to be self aware or to change things. I am young and have been depressed in the past, and the thing that has helped me the most was simple: Action. In every period of history, people has been able to change things they were not comfortable with. But we cant do shit about Gaza, Congo, Iran or Climate Change and yet, we get a huge amount of information about it every day. And the people in power does nothing to change it.
It's a bummer that you need to make it about you, Rainn, in your guest's research. I'm looking at the same research he is. There's nothing particularly funny about the findings, I assure you. You're talking about your sons (so what 2, 3 people)? Haight is talking about years of studies, thousands of intersectional humans....how do you figure your subjective experience here applies?
Especially in his hollywood bubble. Letting Haidt not get to the point was annoying. Wilson isnt good at this, ive tried multiple episodes but he sounds like every Psych 100 student
Very interesting. Loved Jonathan's book - as one of Gen Z, I related a lot to it and found the timeline eerily accurate to my own mental health experiences. I think the idea that we're at a turning point now is spot on, and I'm glad that this podcast is here for that moment. I look forward to future episodes.
This episode really made me feel a lot of different things. Great conversation and I love that Rainn challenged the guest and pushed back on some points. The guest does seem to be a little bit closed off toward the younger gen and also to girls. There are many ways that social media has impacted boys as well but as with mental illness (which has also been discussed) these things are presenting differently. Perhaps on socials girls are more outward and this probably comes from the roles placed into girls that have to do with beauty standards, being wanted, and gossip. With males we see things that are not as extroverted but more along the lines of DMing "hot chicks" and following these types of accounts that are more sexual in nature which again i think play into those roles. I love that Rainn defends the good he sees in younger generations surrounding emotional capability and maturity specifically in boys and men. There is no way that i can ever see this as negative and I found it ver y difficult to listen to Jonathan argue the tired adage of "boys will be boys." There is so much to be learned from our own history that is very plainly showing the insidious nature of toxic masculinity, and I appreciate that Rainn called this point out. Jonathan did come around a little bit toward the end of the conversation, and even though i found his arguments difficult I appreciate that we can listen to explorations of these topics and listen to an example of healthy discussion even when views are opposed. Cancel culture is awful and toxic and having safe space and freedom to talk things through is important and how we will continue to evolve and remain connected instead of living in fear of isolating ourselves
I'm in my early 60s, so definitely not remotely part of the generation being discussed, but for me personally a discerning use of technology has helped me along my spiritual ( not religious) path by offering information by a wide variety of sources that would have been previously difficult to readily obtain. It's allowed me the ease of a spiritual overview from which I've been able to choose and follow my intuitive guidance system. Although this doesn't happen without contemplation and much inner work. Gentlemen, this is an incredibly important and fascinating discussion and I'm grateful to have the technology that allows access to it! Thank you both from the bottom of my heart!❤ BTW, I have kids in the generation you are discussing, so have seen much of what you mention in them and their peers.
I’m curious about the hospitalization piece. I agree it makes sense that social media usage correlates with the decrease of risky behaviour particularly in young males. My thinking is that can’t be the only thing though right? What about the cost of injury and the severity of the wealth gap? I would guess that some children don’t engage in risky behaviour because they fear being punished. A parent can’t feed their child if they hurt themselves so they may believe it’s more responsible to have them play “safe” so they can keep food on the table.
I don't want to say we need to bring back bullying. I do want to say that sometimes kids have conflict and they learn how to settle conflicts and how to interact in a disagreement. We gotta let them fight it out sometimes but not bring it to blows.
I'm 30 years old and was one of those non-resilient kids who took everything to heart and didn't have the instinct to fight back or stick up for myself. My fear is more and more kids will be like that.
It was rare back then but I'm afraid it will be the norm that kids will feel helpless and reliant on their screens entirely and not be able to mature into adults properly.
This is clearly an older audience that isn’t active in younger spaces because gen alpha has THE most oppositional conversation style. They may be sensitive but they are bitey and judgmental as all get out.
I was a teenager with severe depression/anxiety back in the 1980s (I was hospitalized for it twice). There was a huge stigma back then, I was supposed to tell my friends I was in “private school” for those months. But I really think I was better off having it at that age then, because it was long before the internet and social media. I am not sure I would have survived being a teenager with those challenges living now.
A thing to consider with kids reading for pleasure is the restrictions placed on them in classrooms and with the push for extra cirricular activities. I was an avid reader but as I hit high school, and middle school, I wasn't allowed to read books for pleasure in class. Then after school I would go straight into extra cirricular activities that would keep me out till 6 pm. Then I'd have to do hours of homework. By the time you get done with all that there is so much exhaustion and often times you've had no say in any part of your day. Reading a book means I would have to find time to get a book, find time to look through selection and the agency to do so. Whereas a phone (still doesn't give you the agency of choice but) allows you to feel like at least someone (the algorithm) is listening to what you like and want to see. Guve kids agency and choice and free time and I suspect there would be a big reduction in the problems we are seeing.
I appreciated your pushback on gender differences. I’ve always been a more “masculine” girl even though I’m super “girly” looking and people have always had trouble comprehending that I can even hold these dichotomies within myself. I wish we were true existentialists and made our meaning outside of hyper-heteronormative societies and instead from the little voice inside our selves.
I like Haidt and have learned a lot from him. However, I often find myself in disagreement with him as well. At times he makes very strong statements that lack nuance. It's been mentioned already, but I LOVED that Rainn pushed back. This is probably my favorite interview of Haidt for that reason.
Great episode. Your quest to dive deeper into multiple perspectives of life and what it means for different people reminds me alot of professor Sean Carroll and his podcast. Possibly a long shot but I’d love to see him on this podcast!!
Speaking as someone born in '97, yes social media definitely has a very negative impact on the socialization of youth, but you're missing the forest for the trees. Capitalism creates huge profits off of the social isolation and uses social media as a tool to do so. If social media was limited or removed completely, another tool would be implemented. Until the people in power's priority shift's away from profits and towards health and happiness nothing will change because there's no motivation for that change. Limiting social media is a bandaid solution to a festering wound
People in power are just people..they care about their kids and their mom more than they care about random Joe's happiness and health.. At least when everyone is motivated by money and personal interest we can all sort of get along based on a common goal..I agree greed is gross and not compassionate but every person has personal interests that trump every one else's so we have to factor that into the equation..but I feel like the solution IS capitalism
This is a well-treaded talking point already. Part of the "loneliness epidemic" narrative that's being pushed around. Let's look at this another way. What if, instead of waiting for the "people in power's" priorities to shift, what if THE PEOPLE'S priorities shifted first? These systems perpetuate themselves because we as a people are complicit in them. "Without the Vampire effect, The Carnival is deceased." One perspective sits in a "helpless state of victimhood" in some sense, the other perspective takes the Power of the individual back, and steps into Personal Empowerment. A Better World Begins With You❤🌎
So when playing games you can't encounter problems and cheaters? We get actually scared in video games and we have problems that we have to work with friends to resolve. Weak take there, otherwise good episode.
36:17 - NO. Bullshit. Name calling is a form of abuse. It's a personal attack. It can be a form of emotional abuse. When a fellow student at school does it to a kid, when a parent does it to a kid, when a spouse does it to their significant other... it's abuse. I'm talking about ad hominem attacks.
This guy lost me around 34:00 I was born in 97, had the very first iPhone as a middle schooler and I’m basically the exact generation he is critiquing. I had friends in person. I ate dinners with family and friends in person. My friends and I used to go biking, hiking, camping, and played street basketball constantly. Often times my parent’s only problem with my phone was that I wasn’t responding to their calls or messages fast enough. We had phones and internet, but we also had other stuff. When it was nasty outside, my friends and I could all get online and play video games. Is that evil? I think it was a great way to maintain our social lives. In retrospect, the only thing I regret was being able to “speak my mind” on twitter. I think to spare young people humiliation, they really shouldn’t have a public voice online.
@@karinak09 true, but what he is doing is generalizing without data. That’s a stereotype which is just as useless as an anecdote. Listen to how many times he says “let’s say hypothetically..” and how many times he cites “trends” and “data” without backing up any specific trends or data. He’s full of crap. I wish these people would just come out and say honestly: kids these days were raised differently than I was and that scares me and makes me angry. The way he demonizes “kids and these phones” sounds awfully familiar to the widespread panic of reading and books in 18th century Europe. The printing press (technology) allowed people to spread information, true or false, rapidly through the practice of reading. Imagine how foolish and manipulative it was for people to try to burn books and ban reading. This guy is a moron.
At least within the US, I would assume the dropping reading rates are also greatly driven by poor reading curriculum. Getting back to the science of reading is necessary. A child will not be able to find a joy if they don’t have the right tool to read.
Haidt originally came onto my radar through his work in positive psychology and the Center for Healthy Minds at UW-Madison. Glad to see him on, this conversation was edifying and Rainn, that you did "push back" on broad concepts through your personal experience and raising your son, worked and I felt expanded the ideas well.
That was fantastic. I watched the whole thing. What a world we live in - the Information Age. I am going to take a second look at my notifications list to erase unnecessary distractions. Thank you, Rainn and Jonathan!
This is a missed opportunity. The host disagrees (based on his assumptions) with Haidt, and then Haidt’s response is cut out and it skips to the next question. What’s the point?
I believe that differences between their both assumptions made this interview so much more rich and reflexive! 😊 the point for me its always and interesting interchange and you along the way may be able to take your own ideas or assumptions about it! If this mades you think I believe there is a whole point, cause if they both agree mmmm its like a monologue or a thesis
I have the same question marmiz... I was looking forward to some sort of hashing out, even if it's a disagreement. I agree, I was disappointed that topic wasn't discussed further. Perhaps it was cut due to time constraints or other pressing topics. Yes, I felt it ended very abruptly and then onto the next question (after an ad of course).
Rainn should reassess his instinct to bring up the sins of the Founding Fathers. Viewing everything through the modern moral lens is really not helping anyone.
Blaming Tik Tok for the “sudden” collapse of every single American institution IS the problem. The country has been getting harder for YOUNG people for decades. You were lucky not to notice.
I’m new to this podcast, but I find it alarming (but maybe not surprising) that Rainn…as well meaning, soulful, and hilarious as he clearly is… also appears to not contextualize anything in terms of political and historical reality… The sense I get is that his entire worldview, at least to me, is predicated upon mountains of unexamined cultural privilege - the whole project of advocating for “spiritual unity” … without explicitly taking into account, just for one glaring example …the utterly malevolent and toxic, small and large scale, effects of (US) imperialism and runaway consumer capitalism… For me renders a lot of his perspectives extremely naïve… the tenor of his presentation just reminds me of online “wellness influencers” who either intentionally or not, appear to remain blissfully unaware of the unimaginable horrors that are being perpetrated in their names, and with their tax dollars (as Americans..) for me it’s just disappointing, as IMO all of his conversations more or less entirely swirl around in the realm(s) of (white) liberal fantasy and US exceptionalism
Is psychology in other species related to the discussion of feminine and masculine definitions? There are thousands of species in nature where the male is anthropomorphically speaking, more feminine, as stereotypically described by Haidt. I read "The Righteous Mind" the week it came out and I'm extremely grateful for the research he does and have followed his career and public talks since. I have yet to read another of his books, I may do so after reading Soul Boom and after I finish The Power Broker.
14:52 I feel like it should also be taken into account the extreme feminine characters that were shown in media (movies, games, etc) to males influencing their attraction leaning to the "manic pixie dream girl" and even girls with ED's because of body types. So it's not just that girls found the "style" of MI attractive but wanted to be seen as attractive to their peers.
I watched a young girl get congrats for getting a 15 diagnosis and put on the newest mental health meds. Most state run places do a 15 minute evaluation and throws whatever is new drug being pushed onto the person. It's truly insane. This has been happening for decades. Those people having kids on those meds. It's all a factor. Wake up and don't be woke.
Me watching this podcast then suddenly having the urge to lookup something on my phone and now I’m listing and searching for something at the same time and I hear Jonathan talk about regaining control of your attention, nothing can happen if your attention is going to your phone 😂😂
I do believe that screens are a contributing factor and also, I am glad Rainn pushed back but I feel like there needs to be even more pushback. I feel like there are a lot of nuances and other perspectives that are completely missed and that this book was absolutely written by a white man with examples of other white men in it but then drags woman down. Mate you have lost the plot. In the Good Samaritan experiment in 1973 all of the participants in the study were male (while I don't have data on their race you can logically conclude that during this period the men were predominantly white males.) In light of the lack of diversity it is unethical to use such a study to make a point. On the piece about young women and mental health, the media, television, magazines, newspapers, the establishments have always been praying on the mental health of women. The algorithms have helped some woman find their place as society has never held one for them. The fact that Jonathan Haidt equates men having awareness of their feelings and of being able to care for others or show empathy with a loss of the ability to do things like build or create is absolutely his opinion only. What he is not so subtly saying is that without the dumb aggressive men who will have the will to fight the wars that white men start over all of the material resources on earth over. If the white men are no longer agressors then who would be in control and have power and that scares him the most. Gen A has had everything pushed in their faces on the screens but they also have the capacity to stand up for what is right and if encountered with the ethical problem of the person laying moaning in the street I believe the number of good samaritans would go up drastically.
Hello, dont you think the kid will be treated in a different way because everyone has a smartphone and she doen't? Like bullting or other type of things?
Fantastic back and forth. What a wonderful conversation. And so cool the topic is so on point for the moment we find ourselves in. We need to really assess the rules around social media with the care and concern needed for the next generations.
Interesting conversation. Thanks for the great episode Rainn! I appreciate the variety of guests you’ve brought on thus far and look forward to future episodes.
This guy tells on himself all the time “I haven’t been on TikTok” “I don’t really interact with kids” “tv ruining kids was a moral panic - uh but today it’s not” ???
I’d like to push back on Jonathan Haidt’s generalizations about video games just under an hour in as a 26-year-old. I don’t play much anymore, but a cooperative video game experience (particularly split screen or LAN parties but even online) includes all the attributes of play he described. Lots of conflict resolution, making and changing rules, social learning, problem solving, teamwork, fear (when immersed in certain games) and even leadership in some cases. It’s just lacking in physical risk and physical touch. If you’re playing solo or with strangers, it’s often isolating and addictive, but I hope he learns more about cooperative video games in the future. I would take back my phone/social media use as a kid, but never gaming with friends.
I actually agree with Jonathan on most of his outlook and it does feel grim when you consider the emotional and spiritual fatigue that online life creates, but I also think that Rainn is correct about the ways in which connection can bring about enrichment of empathy and compassion. The Bahai in me actually gets a bit of comfort when I consider that the spiritual degradation Jonathan is discussing is part of what Baháʼu'lláh called the lesser peace. The empathy that Rain is witnessing in his son's generation may be signs of the greater peace that is preceded by the lesser peace. It has to get worse before it gets better and the reality of it is that we are connecting in ways our ancestors never dreamed of.
It is an attention thing and we gotta be open to that. The fact the youth has a bigger vocabulary into mental health as opposed to other subjects that could be argued to be more valuable speaks to the cry babiness of the generation. It's all about balance and you can't play nice all the time and expect to win 🤷 It's okay to be more compassionate and whatnot but we also gotta stick to roots of for lack of better terms, "Nutting up". Still gotta have real men and women out there, sorry...
I really enjoyed this conversation. Lucky to have dumped social media seeing how toxic it became and dumped video games before online gaming when you still had to go to a friends house and system link where you were still hanging out with friends then going out to play basketball
Interesting episode but come on it’s obvious this guy has a biased opinion and I suppose like everyone, and idk this guy so I’m not sure what he’s famous about, but this might have not been the best topic to bring him on, it’s obvious he looks down upon the new gen, not only that but he puts out many “studies” idk if those “studies” are real bc he goes from “studies” to “based on what this girl told me in Australia”, not only that but saying that men being more emotionally intelligent is not good and someone how makes us less men lol INSANE 😭 anyways very entraining than you for not being scared of saying you don’t agree with his opinion
Dungeons and dragon's really is the answer. I was a behavioral coach for many years we used Dungeons and dragon's to practice real life social situations, how to emotions look and how to deal with them and how to work with others to achieve a common goal.
I love the idea that LARP is the ultimate answer.
Regarding the valorization of mental health, I like to say: Labels are an Explanation, not the Destination. Unfortunately I see the latter happening much more often. The more we emphasize labels like our mental diagnoses as part of our identity the more entrenched these labels become (e.g. feedback loop), which in turn disincentivizes us from ever wanting to transcend them ("It's just who I am"). It's great mental health awareness has increased, but it also has come with a double-edged sword. ⚔
interesting and very well put perspective!
Fair point. But in our knee-jerk society we continually throw out the baby with the bath water. Without labels there is no human understanding. What we do with labels is up to us. I myself am skeptical about the way psychologists rely on too much on labels (and diagnostic dogma), but that makes me wary of psychologists, not labels. ✌
I really enjoy that Rainn pushes back here on some things and offers counterpoints. I wish more podcasts did this as effectively. Great conversation overall and great episode!
Came down here to say the same thing. Especially when Jonathan Haidt seemed to want to be more combative. Waiting for his turn to speak instead of active listening, trying to sneak in some gotchas, setting up false dichotomies, answering the questions he wanted to be asked verse directly responding. All that said, I appreciate him and his research greatly. A great push and pull from both sides, a lot of good points to mull over. Different levels of alarm to consider. Different emotional approaches to the challenges of the time.
Watching this, I was very skeptical of Haidt mostly because he doesn't seem to cite any sources for his claims, so I researched the issue further and found a great article by Candice L. Odgers that suggests Haidt's narrative is not supported by science: The great rewiring: is social media really behind an epidemic of teenage mental illness?
Hopefully others find the article as intriguing as I did.
My skepticism perked up when I found easily refutable claims being made within a lot his commentary on gen z’s relationship to games and tik tok. A lot of this felt overstated when it didn’t need to be. The overstating seemed to be the basis of more grandiose claims rather than the central point which is technology is a powerful tool that kids need guidance and support with… like everything else in life.
Haidt’s book is actually full of research with the appropriate citations to the scientific data. He also keeps a substack updated with continued data and studies. He has a post about the article you mention on that substack and lays out his counter points to her article. It’s okay to have anecdotal points AND scientific data. They don’t cancel each other out.
@@kylelee4242 the dude literally writes propaganda for the cato institute.
Love what Jonathan is saying. It really makes a lot sense. I've read all of his other books and I am eager to read this one.
With all due respect to Mr. Haidt, saying that the world is not a worst place in this generation is to disregard economics entirely, in a nutshell. That is because the root cause, in addition to social media issues, of the mental health crisis we are living in is precisely the increasing wealth gap. Basically, should we have a more just world in terms of opportunities, people would be more truly empowered, therefore independent, motivated, CONTENT. I apologize for the simplicity of my arguments, but hopefully I was able to express the idea of my perception in regard to the topic.
Love that these discussions are becoming the norm and even the expected.
Will go back to Ep 1 after watching this - all while baking Vegan Kolaches. =P
We think you’ll love episode 1, as well! And we’d love some of those kolaches 😉
@@SoulBoom Anytime! We follow y'all on the platform that must not be named (here, anyway), so send us a message when you're in Texas. =)
Is he forgetting the housing crisis and recession that happened in 2008? He acts like things were great in 2012/13. Millions of people had lost their homes and jobs, in the years surrounding 2008. Lots of kids watched their parents struggling.
White nationalists were making a comeback after Obama was elected.
He seems to view the 2010s with some pretty strong rose colored glasses.
Haidt is following the data. Anxiety, depression, self-harm and suicide by teenage girls (with boy too to a lesser extent) started rising drastically after 2012. They did not rise drastically from 2008 onward, but 2012-2013.
25:23 Oh my lanta. Rainn, you are crushing it. Jon is a PINNACLE expert and you are going blow for blow. Not only that, you have him in a corner BUT! I think the mistake you just made caused him to, possibly, realize it.
If you go to war, a bazooka would be helpful but not as a primary weapon. “It’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.” It IS good for young men to have a high emotional IQ. You are correct.
Your misstep was making it an absolute. 0% and 100% claims are unwise bc 1 antidotal example puts egg on your face. And it sticks. 1% and 99% are soooo close and better option.
Protect yourself. Be cautious. Use qualifiers my brotha!
You are giving me the same problem Theo and BROgan give me. I can’t passively listen at work, like I like, bc the content is SLAMMED with info to process.
You da man. Keep it up!
My cig is out. Gotta get back to work. Imma press play again
This generation has so much access to info that they are starting to see the flaws in our society and how they can make them better. Their society will be much more efficient yet unempathetic.
No, they will be swindled by powers they don't understand who understand how the human psyche works and how to manipulate them best. They'll be so open minded that their brains will fall out and people will just be easily confused and overly emotional. Doesn't bode well. It doesn't matter how much Americans "evolve" and get more empathetic, the rest of the world is still far behind us and the powers that be don't share those same humanitarian tendencies.
No, they will be swindled by powers they don't understand who understand how the human psyche works and how to manipulate them best.
Saying ww2 made people more mentally healthy? Thats twisting the truth a bit eh? Maybe a few select people that didnt get blown to bits or got ptsd
He is a social psychologist…..he is taking a macro perspective and applying data in a very generalized manner. It would be foolish to apply his assertions to all people within a given demographic but it would also be foolish to dismiss the generalized pattern he has observed as being inconsequential because there may happen to be several exceptions.
Jonathan Haidt is like the Brene Brown of this current era
Social media (yes some of UA-cam)
Is horrible
I’m glad I don’t have a kid
I have nephews and a niece
And that’s enough to worry about
Glorifying mental illness….i noticed that on tiktok
I'm 53 now... and grew up in a climate crisis. Florida was supposed to be underwater by now. Funny enough, when I was in elementary school... the biggest fear was another ice age. Very difficult for me at this stage in my life to get behind what any scientists or governments are saying about climate change. Does anyone else just think it's a money grab?
it is a money grab - oil companies knew the severity of the climate crisis in the 70s and decided to spend billions upon billions to discredit the science because that was significantly cheaper than shutting down business and transitioning to alternative energy sources. it seems their propaganda campaign was quite successful.
At the time it was a moral panic.....uhh
The "uh" after the ironic statement was very amusing 😂
Y’all have too much money
i was born in 2000 and ive fully unplugged from social media, i am not alone. WE ARE HERE AND WE HATE THE INTERNET !
Odd comment to give online for a podcast.
What is UA-cam? Lmao
Woah, how novel. Someone being hateful on the internet. Stay disconnected then
You are commenting on UA-cam lmao
@@littlefishy1337 WOW HOW NOVEL SOMEONE BEING HATEFUL ON THE INTERNET 🤡 look at yourself
The way you talk about your son is so warm and loving, Rainn! I wish more sons and daughters had father figures like you! May Maa bless you, your family and your work ❤
I think we're missing the fact that places and activities that were safe social settings for kids/teens are now unavailable do to large controversy and disgusting acts of the entrusted adults.
He's shares a lot of data but it's not clear Jonathan has ever actually talked to a teenager.
This is what bothered me right off the bat. You can't know how it works if you're not in it... With every damn thing.
Also 42:19 about how he's never used TikTok... and yet he talks about the platform and what kids are experiencing via it with [unearned and undeserved] authority..
I know that Haidt has a daughter who was 9 years old in 2018, so she'd be about 15 now. But if you are saying personal experience raising children trumps honestly obtained and fairly used data, I would disagree. While I'm skeptical about data within the social sciences and cautious about its application and the conclusions drawn from it, I believe that data which was properly collected, reported, and objectively analyzed, paints a more accurate picture of childhood in general than the experience of having been a parent. Being a parent does not make anyone an expert on the general state of child raising in America as a whole.
@@WillyPDX94 I was referring to his interpretation of the data, which doesn't seem to show any deep understanding of the qualitative nature of the research. And his interpretation seems heavily based on an ideology that has political goals that to me undermine compassion. He's just wrong on a lot of stuff and I don't understand why he gets platformed.
I came here to say the exact same thing. He seems very out of touch with the humanity of the data.
Love Soul Boom but with all due respect to Jonathan, I believe this interview would've gone completely wrong on any other podcast.
There's a scent of bias for me during the beginning of this episode that just made me kind of... question if I should even continue watching. Then I pictured Dwight taking over the interview and I was good lol (FYI Born in early 90's)
You know you've been watching too much UA-cam, when you watch a movie and want to write a comment so bad lol
I feel this way with commercials
I love that you are both able to have a civil conversation and yet disagree with one another, yet you don't get defensive or anxious. We need more of this!
I always say, if people were hanging Trump flags in my neighborhood when I was a teen they wouldn't have been there by the end of the next weekend. Instead my town is full of them.
Rainn is more biased than he's been in years. This social psychologist is spot on.
Talking more about your feelings IS progress. Many of the male suicides happen without people even knowing the person is depressed.
I wonder if what Rainn is hearing from his children and taking as compassion isn't actually anxiety coming out. I have a lot of compassion but I also worry about others and everything in the world to the degree that it's irrational. I think many Gen Zers are overwhelmed. They knew too much too soon because of social media and they continue to be bombarded by negativity.
29:50 Beeing self aware in a world that shows us costant catastrophees everywere and no way to fight them has a great part in why people are depressed. We are constantly bombarded with bad news, and developing critical thinking means to not be delusional. Of course middle class religious people (not spiritual, I mean people that haven't questioned the religion they were born in) is less depressed, because there is no incentivation from their environment to be self aware or to change things. I am young and have been depressed in the past, and the thing that has helped me the most was simple: Action. In every period of history, people has been able to change things they were not comfortable with. But we cant do shit about Gaza, Congo, Iran or Climate Change and yet, we get a huge amount of information about it every day. And the people in power does nothing to change it.
It's a bummer that you need to make it about you, Rainn, in your guest's research. I'm looking at the same research he is. There's nothing particularly funny about the findings, I assure you. You're talking about your sons (so what 2, 3 people)? Haight is talking about years of studies, thousands of intersectional humans....how do you figure your subjective experience here applies?
Especially in his hollywood bubble. Letting Haidt not get to the point was annoying. Wilson isnt good at this, ive tried multiple episodes but he sounds like every Psych 100 student
Very interesting. Loved Jonathan's book - as one of Gen Z, I related a lot to it and found the timeline eerily accurate to my own mental health experiences. I think the idea that we're at a turning point now is spot on, and I'm glad that this podcast is here for that moment. I look forward to future episodes.
Oh this man has not played video games, you can cheat
This episode really made me feel a lot of different things. Great conversation and I love that Rainn challenged the guest and pushed back on some points. The guest does seem to be a little bit closed off toward the younger gen and also to girls. There are many ways that social media has impacted boys as well but as with mental illness (which has also been discussed) these things are presenting differently. Perhaps on socials girls are more outward and this probably comes from the roles placed into girls that have to do with beauty standards, being wanted, and gossip. With males we see things that are not as extroverted but more along the lines of DMing "hot chicks" and following these types of accounts that are more sexual in nature which again i think play into those roles.
I love that Rainn defends the good he sees in younger generations surrounding emotional capability and maturity specifically in boys and men. There is no way that i can ever see this as negative and I found it ver y difficult to listen to Jonathan argue the tired adage of "boys will be boys." There is so much to be learned from our own history that is very plainly showing the insidious nature of toxic masculinity, and I appreciate that Rainn called this point out.
Jonathan did come around a little bit toward the end of the conversation, and even though i found his arguments difficult I appreciate that we can listen to explorations of these topics and listen to an example of healthy discussion even when views are opposed. Cancel culture is awful and toxic and having safe space and freedom to talk things through is important and how we will continue to evolve and remain connected instead of living in fear of isolating ourselves
Thank you for this thoughtful comment!
@@SoulBoom My pleasure, thank you for provoking the thought!
I'm in my early 60s, so definitely not remotely part of the generation being discussed, but for me personally a discerning use of technology has helped me along my spiritual ( not religious) path by offering information by a wide variety of sources that would have been previously difficult to readily obtain. It's allowed me the ease of a spiritual overview from which I've been able to choose and follow my intuitive guidance system. Although this doesn't happen without contemplation and much inner work. Gentlemen, this is an incredibly important and fascinating discussion and I'm grateful to have the technology that allows access to it! Thank you both from the bottom of my heart!❤ BTW, I have kids in the generation you are discussing, so have seen much of what you mention in them and their peers.
I’m curious about the hospitalization piece. I agree it makes sense that social media usage correlates with the decrease of risky behaviour particularly in young males. My thinking is that can’t be the only thing though right? What about the cost of injury and the severity of the wealth gap? I would guess that some children don’t engage in risky behaviour because they fear being punished. A parent can’t feed their child if they hurt themselves so they may believe it’s more responsible to have them play “safe” so they can keep food on the table.
I don't want to say we need to bring back bullying. I do want to say that sometimes kids have conflict and they learn how to settle conflicts and how to interact in a disagreement. We gotta let them fight it out sometimes but not bring it to blows.
I'm 30 years old and was one of those non-resilient kids who took everything to heart and didn't have the instinct to fight back or stick up for myself. My fear is more and more kids will be like that.
It was rare back then but I'm afraid it will be the norm that kids will feel helpless and reliant on their screens entirely and not be able to mature into adults properly.
No, bring back bullying
Bullying has evolved. It never left
This is clearly an older audience that isn’t active in younger spaces because gen alpha has THE most oppositional conversation style. They may be sensitive but they are bitey and judgmental as all get out.
I was a teenager with severe depression/anxiety back in the 1980s (I was hospitalized for it twice). There was a huge stigma back then, I was supposed to tell my friends I was in “private school” for those months.
But I really think I was better off having it at that age then, because it was long before the internet and social media. I am not sure I would have survived being a teenager with those challenges living now.
A thing to consider with kids reading for pleasure is the restrictions placed on them in classrooms and with the push for extra cirricular activities. I was an avid reader but as I hit high school, and middle school, I wasn't allowed to read books for pleasure in class. Then after school I would go straight into extra cirricular activities that would keep me out till 6 pm. Then I'd have to do hours of homework. By the time you get done with all that there is so much exhaustion and often times you've had no say in any part of your day. Reading a book means I would have to find time to get a book, find time to look through selection and the agency to do so. Whereas a phone (still doesn't give you the agency of choice but) allows you to feel like at least someone (the algorithm) is listening to what you like and want to see. Guve kids agency and choice and free time and I suspect there would be a big reduction in the problems we are seeing.
Rainn saying Gen Z is more compassionate is a lie, its virtue signaling and acting like they care
I appreciated your pushback on gender differences. I’ve always been a more “masculine” girl even though I’m super “girly” looking and people have always had trouble comprehending that I can even hold these dichotomies within myself. I wish we were true existentialists and made our meaning outside of hyper-heteronormative societies and instead from the little voice inside our selves.
I like Haidt and have learned a lot from him. However, I often find myself in disagreement with him as well. At times he makes very strong statements that lack nuance. It's been mentioned already, but I LOVED that Rainn pushed back. This is probably my favorite interview of Haidt for that reason.
Great episode. Your quest to dive deeper into multiple perspectives of life and what it means for different people reminds me alot of professor Sean Carroll and his podcast. Possibly a long shot but I’d love to see him on this podcast!!
Dude saying there’s no conflict or cheating in video games has never been in a COD lobby before.
Speaking as someone born in '97, yes social media definitely has a very negative impact on the socialization of youth, but you're missing the forest for the trees. Capitalism creates huge profits off of the social isolation and uses social media as a tool to do so. If social media was limited or removed completely, another tool would be implemented.
Until the people in power's priority shift's away from profits and towards health and happiness nothing will change because there's no motivation for that change. Limiting social media is a bandaid solution to a festering wound
People in power are just people..they care about their kids and their mom more than they care about random Joe's happiness and health.. At least when everyone is motivated by money and personal interest we can all sort of get along based on a common goal..I agree greed is gross and not compassionate but every person has personal interests that trump every one else's so we have to factor that into the equation..but I feel like the solution IS capitalism
This is a well-treaded talking point already. Part of the "loneliness epidemic" narrative that's being pushed around.
Let's look at this another way. What if, instead of waiting for the "people in power's" priorities to shift, what if THE PEOPLE'S priorities shifted first? These systems perpetuate themselves because we as a people are complicit in them. "Without the Vampire effect, The Carnival is deceased."
One perspective sits in a "helpless state of victimhood" in some sense, the other perspective takes the Power of the individual back, and steps into Personal Empowerment.
A Better World Begins With You❤🌎
So when playing games you can't encounter problems and cheaters? We get actually scared in video games and we have problems that we have to work with friends to resolve. Weak take there, otherwise good episode.
36:17 - NO. Bullshit. Name calling is a form of abuse. It's a personal attack. It can be a form of emotional abuse. When a fellow student at school does it to a kid, when a parent does it to a kid, when a spouse does it to their significant other... it's abuse.
I'm talking about ad hominem attacks.
Algorithm education I think is critical for kids these days. They need to understand rabbit holes and spirals and how to stay out of them
You said that the Bobby Lee episode was coming out by today though where is it 🤦♂️
This guy lost me around 34:00
I was born in 97, had the very first iPhone as a middle schooler and I’m basically the exact generation he is critiquing.
I had friends in person. I ate dinners with family and friends in person. My friends and I used to go biking, hiking, camping, and played street basketball constantly. Often times my parent’s only problem with my phone was that I wasn’t responding to their calls or messages fast enough. We had phones and internet, but we also had other stuff. When it was nasty outside, my friends and I could all get online and play video games. Is that evil? I think it was a great way to maintain our social lives.
In retrospect, the only thing I regret was being able to “speak my mind” on twitter. I think to spare young people humiliation, they really shouldn’t have a public voice online.
How does that refute his argument? What argument do you think he is making if a single counter example refutes it?
What is an average? Lol
This is what one would call *anecdotal*. Haidt is talking about averages
@@karinak09 true, but what he is doing is generalizing without data. That’s a stereotype which is just as useless as an anecdote. Listen to how many times he says “let’s say hypothetically..” and how many times he cites “trends” and “data” without backing up any specific trends or data. He’s full of crap.
I wish these people would just come out and say honestly: kids these days were raised differently than I was and that scares me and makes me angry.
The way he demonizes “kids and these phones” sounds awfully familiar to the widespread panic of reading and books in 18th century Europe. The printing press (technology) allowed people to spread information, true or false, rapidly through the practice of reading. Imagine how foolish and manipulative it was for people to try to burn books and ban reading. This guy is a moron.
Generations who go through the struggles of social media come out tougher and more resilient?????? Or does that only work for physical bullying?
At least within the US, I would assume the dropping reading rates are also greatly driven by poor reading curriculum. Getting back to the science of reading is necessary. A child will not be able to find a joy if they don’t have the right tool to read.
I don’t think mental health issues are trendy online in the way that adults think they are. I call bs.
Haidt originally came onto my radar through his work in positive psychology and the Center for Healthy Minds at UW-Madison. Glad to see him on, this conversation was edifying and Rainn, that you did "push back" on broad concepts through your personal experience and raising your son, worked and I felt expanded the ideas well.
That was fantastic. I watched the whole thing. What a world we live in - the Information Age. I am going to take a second look at my notifications list to erase unnecessary distractions. Thank you, Rainn and Jonathan!
Bro is bringing so much stereotypes. Gosh.
Rain is so woke. Its almost uncomfortable.
I loved the appearance Jonathan had on JRE but I enjoyed this conversation and these questions much more
this was an amazing one!!! recomending it to my parents, thank you Rainn and Jonathan
This is a missed opportunity. The host disagrees (based on his assumptions) with Haidt, and then Haidt’s response is cut out and it skips to the next question. What’s the point?
I believe that differences between their both assumptions made this interview so much more rich and reflexive! 😊 the point for me its always and interesting interchange and you along the way may be able to take your own ideas or assumptions about it! If this mades you think I believe there is a whole point, cause if they both agree mmmm its like a monologue or a thesis
I have the same question marmiz... I was looking forward to some sort of hashing out, even if it's a disagreement. I agree, I was disappointed that topic wasn't discussed further. Perhaps it was cut due to time constraints or other pressing topics. Yes, I felt it ended very abruptly and then onto the next question (after an ad of course).
Hard times, Make strong men. Strong Men make easy times. Easy times make weak men. Weak men make hard times.
Wonderful interview!! My favorite psychologist talking with my favorite spiritual activist -- about such critical and meaningful issues.
Great insights from Jonathan, but kudos Rainn for pushing back some of his false dichotomies.
I vote 100% no phones at school.
Rainn should reassess his instinct to bring up the sins of the Founding Fathers. Viewing everything through the modern moral lens is really not helping anyone.
He’s a post modernist
Blaming Tik Tok for the “sudden” collapse of every single American institution IS the problem. The country has been getting harder for YOUNG people for decades. You were lucky not to notice.
I’m new to this podcast, but I find it alarming (but maybe not surprising) that Rainn…as well meaning, soulful, and hilarious as he clearly is… also appears to not contextualize anything in terms of political and historical reality… The sense I get is that his entire worldview, at least to me, is predicated upon mountains of unexamined cultural privilege - the whole project of advocating for “spiritual unity” … without explicitly taking into account, just for one glaring example …the utterly malevolent and toxic, small and large scale, effects of (US) imperialism and runaway consumer capitalism… For me renders a lot of his perspectives extremely naïve… the tenor of his presentation just reminds me of online “wellness influencers” who either intentionally or not, appear to remain blissfully unaware of the unimaginable horrors that are being perpetrated in their names, and with their tax dollars (as Americans..) for me it’s just disappointing, as IMO all of his conversations more or less entirely swirl around in the realm(s) of (white) liberal fantasy and US exceptionalism
Is psychology in other species related to the discussion of feminine and masculine definitions?
There are thousands of species in nature where the male is anthropomorphically speaking, more feminine, as stereotypically described by Haidt.
I read "The Righteous Mind" the week it came out and I'm extremely grateful for the research he does and have followed his career and public talks since. I have yet to read another of his books, I may do so after reading Soul Boom and after I finish The Power Broker.
14:52 I feel like it should also be taken into account the extreme feminine characters that were shown in media (movies, games, etc) to males influencing their attraction leaning to the "manic pixie dream girl" and even girls with ED's because of body types. So it's not just that girls found the "style" of MI attractive but wanted to be seen as attractive to their peers.
I watched a young girl get congrats for getting a 15 diagnosis and put on the newest mental health meds. Most state run places do a 15 minute evaluation and throws whatever is new drug being pushed onto the person. It's truly insane. This has been happening for decades. Those people having kids on those meds. It's all a factor. Wake up and don't be woke.
Me watching this podcast then suddenly having the urge to lookup something on my phone and now I’m listing and searching for something at the same time and I hear Jonathan talk about regaining control of your attention, nothing can happen if your attention is going to your phone 😂😂
I do believe that screens are a contributing factor and also, I am glad Rainn pushed back but I feel like there needs to be even more pushback. I feel like there are a lot of nuances and other perspectives that are completely missed and that this book was absolutely written by a white man with examples of other white men in it but then drags woman down. Mate you have lost the plot. In the Good Samaritan experiment in 1973 all of the participants in the study were male (while I don't have data on their race you can logically conclude that during this period the men were predominantly white males.) In light of the lack of diversity it is unethical to use such a study to make a point.
On the piece about young women and mental health, the media, television, magazines, newspapers, the establishments have always been praying on the mental health of women. The algorithms have helped some woman find their place as society has never held one for them.
The fact that Jonathan Haidt equates men having awareness of their feelings and of being able to care for others or show empathy with a loss of the ability to do things like build or create is absolutely his opinion only. What he is not so subtly saying is that without the dumb aggressive men who will have the will to fight the wars that white men start over all of the material resources on earth over.
If the white men are no longer agressors then who would be in control and have power and that scares him the most.
Gen A has had everything pushed in their faces on the screens but they also have the capacity to stand up for what is right and if encountered with the ethical problem of the person laying moaning in the street I believe the number of good samaritans would go up drastically.
Genuinely what footing does Rain have in spirituality or psychology besides being a hollywood actor who took shrooms and “found themselves”
Hello, dont you think the kid will be treated in a different way because everyone has a smartphone and she doen't? Like bullting or other type of things?
refreshing interchange with no one being irate. thank you.
Agreed a great intellectual conversation even if there are differences in causes of issues
The worst thing you can do for your immune system is to coddle it. They need to fight their own battles. -D
Fantastic back and forth. What a wonderful conversation. And so cool the topic is so on point for the moment we find ourselves in. We need to really assess the rules around social media with the care and concern needed for the next generations.
Rain Wilson is trying so hard to be the cool dad he’s gonna ruin his son
hi rainn, thank you for having these conversations!
Interesting conversation. Thanks for the great episode Rainn! I appreciate the variety of guests you’ve brought on thus far and look forward to future episodes.
Love rainn. But is kids and his friends are the kids I hate and are the jerkoffs running the academy.
This guy tells on himself all the time “I haven’t been on TikTok” “I don’t really interact with kids” “tv ruining kids was a moral panic - uh but today it’s not” ???
I just wanted to be the most recent comment. If it gets stolen from me, let me know
I’d like to push back on Jonathan Haidt’s generalizations about video games just under an hour in as a 26-year-old.
I don’t play much anymore, but a cooperative video game experience (particularly split screen or LAN parties but even online) includes all the attributes of play he described. Lots of conflict resolution, making and changing rules, social learning, problem solving, teamwork, fear (when immersed in certain games) and even leadership in some cases. It’s just lacking in physical risk and physical touch.
If you’re playing solo or with strangers, it’s often isolating and addictive, but I hope he learns more about cooperative video games in the future. I would take back my phone/social media use as a kid, but never gaming with friends.
Agreed. I was shocked when he said there can be no conflict in a video game session with boys. 100% false
Isn’t this technically episode 3?
You should get JAMES VUKELICH KAAGEGAABAW as a guest. Ojibwe-Anishinaabe cultural language, tradition and philospy speaker.
This was an incredible discussion - best I've heard in some time. I've already recommended it to friends
🙌
Rainn I think you should write a movie about the internet collapse and how things would change and play out.
🤔
@@SoulBoomthis isn't Rainn 😒
Rainn has a son.
Oh the mouth noise in my earbuds…
I actually agree with Jonathan on most of his outlook and it does feel grim when you consider the emotional and spiritual fatigue that online life creates, but I also think that Rainn is correct about the ways in which connection can bring about enrichment of empathy and compassion. The Bahai in me actually gets a bit of comfort when I consider that the spiritual degradation Jonathan is discussing is part of what Baháʼu'lláh called the lesser peace. The empathy that Rain is witnessing in his son's generation may be signs of the greater peace that is preceded by the lesser peace. It has to get worse before it gets better and the reality of it is that we are connecting in ways our ancestors never dreamed of.
"John, it's when you poop." 🤣 Pro tip
laser tag with actual lasers
The answer is no.
It is an attention thing and we gotta be open to that. The fact the youth has a bigger vocabulary into mental health as opposed to other subjects that could be argued to be more valuable speaks to the cry babiness of the generation. It's all about balance and you can't play nice all the time and expect to win 🤷 It's okay to be more compassionate and whatnot but we also gotta stick to roots of for lack of better terms, "Nutting up". Still gotta have real men and women out there, sorry...
3:05 hahahaha
I really enjoyed this conversation. Lucky to have dumped social media seeing how toxic it became and dumped video games before online gaming when you still had to go to a friends house and system link where you were still hanging out with friends then going out to play basketball
I'm 33 and my friends and I play dnd every week! It has to be on discord bc we're all to busy to get together, but it's therapy for sure.
RAIIN. Good job
Interesting episode but come on it’s obvious this guy has a biased opinion and I suppose like everyone, and idk this guy so I’m not sure what he’s famous about, but this might have not been the best topic to bring him on, it’s obvious he looks down upon the new gen, not only that but he puts out many “studies” idk if those “studies” are real bc he goes from “studies” to “based on what this girl told me in Australia”, not only that but saying that men being more emotionally intelligent is not good and someone how makes us less men lol INSANE 😭 anyways very entraining than you for not being scared of saying you don’t agree with his opinion
The pushback shows these topics need to be more OPENLY discussed and not shut out so quickly in order to even begin to seep into the collective psyche
This episode is amazing, I appreciate how thought provoking both John and Rainn were and can’t wait to read both their books!