That's a good point about her having to actually train to become good. I really liked how she got her ass kicked at first. You don't really see that with action protagonists nowadays.
And you almost never see it with Action Girls. You usually meet them when they're already skilled or have a different conflict that needs to be overcome
Yes, it made it feel less like a 'Mary Sue' condition, and that we were just following a journey specific to Tris. And with the one Eric being a Dauntless member, we can assume he passed the test and hid it as well
As someone who also thought that shadowhunters had its flaws I too believe that Katherine MacNamara was not the problem and was a good Clary Fray bring a lot of heart and strength to a character that was always there. Hope to hear your thoughts about shadowhunters one day.
@@BetterWithBob Katherine McNamara is a delightful portrayl as Clary. She's energetic, creative, vigilant and curious. Some people could get annoyed by her stubborness or think of her solely as a liability due to being Valentine's daughter but she refuses to limit herself this way. She reminds even the most revered Shadowhunters that emotions can be beneficial when in war and keep you focused.
Definitely agree I love the show honestly despite its cheesy moment but Jace really brings down the energy, everyone else I significantly prefer to the movie but movie Jace was so much better 😭
@lillyevans5824 Movie Jace (Jamie Campbell Bower) also did a fantastic job as Vecna (number 1) and was pretty good in his limited bit as a young Grindelwald - I could definitely see how young Dumbledore would fall for him!
I remember Divergent fondly as one of the first movies I watched in its original language in English class (I'm German) And I also remember how the death of Triss' mother was at the time one of the only instances of an actor bringing the appropriate level of hysteria to witnessing the brutal death of a loved one. So yeah I also wouldn't call it a masterpiece but I feel a lot of warmth towards it.
I love Divergent and Insurgent - Allegiant, not so much. But I really appreciate the underlying theme. I'm autistic and I definitely see the parallels between being Divergent and being autistic and how society needs people to fit into neat boxes in order to "keep people in their place". Divergent people interrupt the status quo by being the canaries in the coal mine and highlighting how limiting it is to be confined to one singular trait or "faction". I've often been seen as a trouble maker just for asking "why" when things don't make logical sense. Instead of being seen as someone with the desire and ability to view things from multiple angles, you get labeled as a problem for not shutting up and complying. It is extremely limiting and doesn't allow people to expand and actually understand the fullness of the human experience. If you're just supposed to "stick with your kind" then you miss out on enjoying the complexity that is the tapestry of human expression.
This is all cozy and wholesome until you realize that people can be frustrating and can find you frustrating. Just like how you feel frustrated that people tell you to quiet down, they are frustrated that you aren't. Perhaps you couldn't read the room and made everything awkward. A party pooper, if you will. And what do we then have? People being frustrated about each other. You don't like them for not giving you enough of a fair shot and they don't like you for "ruining" the mood. And then we get WW3. The world isn't as happy-go-lucky as we'd want to and we will annoy other people simply by existing. And to wrestle that? You find people who don't get annoyed. Yeah, you can't actually force people into that, surprisingly. That's when you get stuff like fascism (yeah, pretty big leap, but you get the picture). So it's not about "forcing yourself to be with your kind to avoid the vivid tapestry of diversity for diversity sake", but about hanging out with people that don't make you want to claw your eyes out. If that sounds "problematic" to you, then look at what kind of people you wanna hangout with, right? It's not the people you hate, now is it? And would you like that if you were forced to hangout with them because someone wants you to "enjoy the complexity that is the tapestry of human expression"? NO! Nobody wants that! You just don't like it when a group you wanna be with doesn't like you. You can't force that on them. You can't force them to accept and like you. Just like you can't force yourself to like them. And I gotta say: If you have autism and your conclusion is that you asking "why" gets you labelled as a troublemaker: I guarantee it's not that. You are doing something else that annoys people. Probably something akin to taking things too seriously or not seriously enough or something like that. Getting that label by asking questions is what makes no logical sense here.
I recall LOVING the second film just as much and feeling the script and story/tris arc hitting super hard in a spiritual way!!! Plus the score and music in it SLAPS hard!!! Deserves to be noted and mentioned! Overall I felt very immersed in the world of Divergent Franchise and the world building/production design was very well realised and fully fleshed out!!! Shailene carried the films with such finesse and discipline!!! A true SUPERSTAR! 🚀🫶🏻🕊️⚡️ I miss her in movies!
She seems to be doing things her way at least. She made her money thanks to Divergent and Big Little Lies, and seems to only pursue roles that appeal to her artistically
That was a beautiful video 😊 I was a fan of Divergent and will be until the last drop of my blood. I ate and DEVOURED the YA dystopia/fantasy genre back in the day myself with a ginormous spoon for all my moneys worrh and I have no regrets. The reason I love Tris is we see her grow as she started from a fragile environment and we see her work into the Dauntless warrior role. She's eager to improve and better herself and is very underrated. Even in her moments of doubt, she quickly pulls herself up and thinks of a new way to solve her problem Tris reminds me of the reason I adore Clary Fairchild and I will NOT tolerate anymore slander against these two young women. They are both flawed as inexperienced fighters and fish out of water characters but they are creative problem solvers and use their emotions as their assets because "emotions serve a purpose" and thats what makes both of them heroes in my eyes.
@@BetterWithBob The books see Clary do a gradual growth from her supposed "whiny, bratty teenage" trappings into a much more confident Shadowhunter. Her street smarts get sharper and her creative nature shines brighter. She is eager to try but not in a way to prove herself to anyone that makes it seem illegitimate and annoying. I still get mad at Joycelyn for being such a chickenshit of not telling Clary the truth or at the very least, show her the good and the bad of the Nephilim lifestyle. Yes it was for the sake of giving Clary a normal childhood, but I highlight the principle of Joycelyn's cowardice came at the expense of Clary's knowledge and her peers who could guide her without condescension or sugar coating. I don't mind her and Jace as a couple but THEY WILL ALWAYS PALE IN COMPARISON TO MALEC. MY WORD IS LAW!!! But Clary isn't the only underrated character of the Shadowhunters Universe (even though she's the main character). Shout out to Maia Roberts for being a fantastic side character who gets as many chapters and she's a delight. But the MVP award has to go to Simon, for all the crap he goes through and his noble sacrifice in the final book
It's at once both frustrating and thrilling, because the segments dealing with the civil war in Chicago are so good, but everything in the Bureau...you can tell they rushed it
@@BetterWithBob I remember getting out of the theater for the second film wanting to punch something or someone because I had finished reading the second book a few weeks prior and the changes made for visual aesthetics or story changes made because the director said so didn't make sense for the world or the plot.
The way I ran to this video. My favourite commentator with all his ultra correct takes; and this one didn't disappoint one bit. An insightful, nuanced view given with genuine fondness and good faith. I love how empathic and emotionally intelligent you are. I love that you find no barrier to relating to a teenage girl, where for so many people that would be enough to dismiss her. I love your self awareness about your biases but your conviction regardless to enjoy things you find meaningful with no apology. You are an absolute delight to listen to.❤ Society has always been vitriolically contemptuous of a) genre fiction, b) anything teens enjoy, and c) ESPECIALLY anything written by or for women/girls. All three together is a cocktail for critics gnashing their teeth all over the internet. Rest assured female authors are entirely used to their work being referred to as "not real writing" by Gen X film studies grads who pretend their favourite artists (usually someone along the lines of Quentin Tarantino) aren't equally based in wish-fulfillment and pseudo profundity. Can't wait to see what you bring for us next!
It's so great to see someone else who gets that. I've never enjoyed a Tarantino movie, although I think the 2 Kill Bill movies are at least watchable to me, but I'm self-aware enough to know that his films AREN'T made for me! On the other hand, Buffy, Charmed, the Underworld and Hunger Games movies, LoTR, and Sucker Punch are right up my alley - but the critics have endless criticism for at least half of that list and at the same time they have endless praise for almost everything Tarantino makes. I have a theory (that it's a demon, a dancing demon... sorry, my Buffy brain always intrudes when I use that phrase, lol) that many of the movies I love become "cult classics" years after their release because too many people, and even critics, pay too much attention to a very few critics and entertainment news sources that give early negative reviews or judge too much on box office receipts, and they either don't go see these movies or they go to hate-watch instead of watching with an open mind. Then, years later, once the negativity has dissipated, more people watch these movies with an open mind and they end up loving them, too. The OG is Rocky Horror, but that one grew legs because of the midnight screenings and the whole freaky show that grew up around it rather than it being good - with the exception of the fantastic Tim Curry, of course, who played Frank-N-Furter with such sexual abandon that he became many Gen-Xers bisexual awakening. However, some other, more well-known movies are considered cult classics like Constantine (pray that the rumors of #2 are real), Donnie Darko, The Crow, Labrynth (with David Bowie filling Tim Curry's eye-opening role for the Millenials), and even our beloved The Princess Bride were all considered flops for one reason or another at their releases. My personal favorites that people are coming around on are The Village and Sucker Punch, but they're not up to cult classic status yet. Of course, there are cult classic TV shows, too. Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly (problematic creator/showrunner not withstanding) both started out maligned by critics and audiences alike, but over the years they both have been recognized as the gems they are. However, Supernatural and Doctor Who have yet to get much love outside of their respective fandoms, except for the occasional mentions about their longevity - which should be a hint to people that they must have SOMETHING going on for them to have lasted so long in the cutthroat cancel-culture world of broadcast television. I guess my long-winded point is that we love what we love, so ignore the haters and find your people somewhere on the internet like Reddit.
For me, Divergent suffers in the same way as game of thrones does: the great start suffers from the unsatisfactory conclusion, which for me makes the older parts less enjoyable since i know where it leads to..
Divergent is such a weird IP for me. I never really liked reading, mostly because I am very slow at it and always was jealous of people that could just sit down and read a book in 1 weekend. But I was finishing middle school when the Hunger Games movie was being made, and I decided to read the book. I fell in love with the world and swiftly read Catching Fire the fastest I had ever read a book in my life, and struggled my way through Mockingjay. One of my teachers, who knew I wasn't into reading much but noticed I had been hooked by Hunger Games, suggested I give Divergent a read. Although I never finished Allegiant, Divergent and Insurgent were very good reads for me. I think that the first movie is almost a perfect adaption, but Insurgent was such a let down for me. That being said I think that Shailene Woodley and Theo James were perfectly cast as Tris and Four. I mean the whole cast was perfectly casted, even Kate Winslet who I only had seen playing good guys, played the villain perfectly.
Oh god, I had to watch that in cinema with friends and it was pure torture. The only thing that saved me was my childhood crush Kevin Zegers and seeing that a resident german actor kind of made it in hollywood 😆 (Elyas M'Barek. Love that guy) and Lily Collins is a much better actress than whoever they cast in that tv show.
@@BetterWithBob Weird. Me and my friends heavily disliked her acting during the first season but I thought you could really see her grow as an actress and she started to become one of my favourites in the series by the third.
You should do a video about : THE GIVER THE SIGNAL (Both starring Brenton Thwaites!) They are both great sci-fi/post apocalyptic/dystopian YA films!!! Imo
@@sassylittleprophet I read The Giver by Lois Lowry back in university for a book club. When I heard about the movie adaptation. We all went to see it. It was a good film despite it's low funding. But it showed each character's intentions, arcs and overall view of the world itself. We enjoyed some of the changes they made. It brought all characters to live. Gosh! I need to re-read the book again. 📖 😊
Thinking back on it now, I watched this whilst I was backpacking for several months to work out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life and this film categorised goals and life paths so distinctly that I think I latched onto that certainty and commitment to a path that I was scared to take for myself. I have rewatched so many times and just find it a comforting film
I really enjoyed the first two books back when they first came out, but I got spoiled on the ending of the third book and just never finished it... kinda like the films. However, your enthusiasm for this series has made me consider giving it another try - along with you letting me know that there is one more book plus a "follow-up story" that might take the sting out of the ending of Allegiant. Plus, thanks to one of your comments, I can read the story of Tris knowing that I am a fellow (neuro)Divergent, something that you helped me see - along with my fantastic therapist who diagnosed me with ADHD at 53 and changed my life. Thanks, Bob!
I had no idea they got so much hate back in the day (even now?). I really enjoyed the books and the movies and I'm forever sad and mad that they didn't make that final movie.
Seems like you really missed the point of Hermione - she is very intelligent, but she studies CONSTANTLY. She works her ass off for her success. Harry on the other hand, shows up at Hogwarts and is somehow the best seeker in 100 years despite having never touched a broom, and has quite a bit of natural magical talent. Not to mention, even if Hermione was just a genius who knew everything without studying (which is the opposite of what she is) she still isn’t athletic (can’t play quidditch) and has very poor social skills so she’s not exactly some perfect Mary Sue. I don’t know why people are so insistent on always needing justification for female characters to be good at stuff, and/or ignoring it when it’s present. See: constant complains about how Abby from TLOU 2 couldn’t possibly be super buff because it’s the apocalypse and they don’t have enough protein or something - yet I’ve never seen someone question how male characters do the same thing in the same situation. It only requires justification because she’s a woman. Would it be harder for her to build up that kind of muscle than a man? Absolutely. But if you need justification for her, you should need it at some level for everyone, and people just don’t have those standards for male characters.
You seem to have missed the part where I said that the films filed off most of the times she messed up or was in the wrong. Such as: *The Devil's Snare scene - movie Hermione doesn't panic and forget she can do magic like the book *The Mudblood bit - movie Hermione automatically knows the slur and doesn't have to have it explained *The Crookshanks and Scabbers stuff is minimised so Hermione never blows up at Harry and Ron and has to swallow her pride to apologise to them. In fact, when he turns up alive, the movie tries to put Hermione on the moral high ground *Getting Ron's line about "if you have to kill Harry, you have to kill us too" *Not passing out when she tries to cast a Patronus *No showing her failing the Boggart exam by freaking out about being told she'd failed everything *Not showing the effect the Time Turner has on her, where she's shown to be cracking under the workload, and here it's just a convenient way to solve things. As well as adding in Hermione being the one to realise they can influence the past, which is something only Harry does in the book, though I do like this change *Removing the SPEW stuff that shows how out of touch she is *There's no emphasis during the Ron/Harry fallout that Harry just isn't as close with Hermione and doesn't have as much fun as her *No moment of her embarrassing herself in front of Dumbledore when trying to convince Hagrid to return to teaching *Downplaying her petty jealousy over Harry using the Half Blood Prince's book *Removing her being more concerned with taking the moral high ground and saying I told you so after the Sectumsempra bit, and having to get put in her place by Ginny *Lessening the bit where she's responsible for Harry's wand getting destroyed *Showing her as a far more convincing Bellatrix impersonator when in the book, her having Bellatrix's wand is what tips the goblins off that she's an impostor Those are the ones that come to mind at the minute
@@BetterWithBob also, is genuinely so nice to hear someone saying good things about this series. I feel the divergent renaissance coming, we dit it for twilight, we can do this for divergent
After Secret Life i didnt think id ever like Shailene Woodley but she really killed Tris and other characters. I really became a fan when she was arrested for protesting the Datoka pipeline. (Edit) Eric is Varro?!?!?!??! Im a huuuuge Spartacus fan. I've never clocked that 😭
I still have feelings about the books: 1 and 2 have the same ending (some pieces-parts are tweaked, but it is the same ending), and Tris' martyr-complex and eventual sacrificial exit felt forced, but Shailene Woodly did have a great performance in the role, and brought more likability to the character for me.
Personally i was obsessed with the books when they came out and loved the first film at release but (unfortunately i don't remember the specifics) hated the sequel, maybe thinking it not as good as the book, which made me not watch any of the rest of the franchise because i didn't want to see them ruin the rest of the books i loved. Being 10 years away from that i can see i was being childish about my reasoning but I've given the first movie and book another try to see them as an adult and now they're just boring to me. Love to hear other people liking them though but i probably won't give them a third chance, at least for a while.
As someone who loved the books, the first movie was good. The others…not so much. They completely changed the story by adding the whole “you are the only one” trope. That wasn’t in the books. There are many divergents. That’s the whole point. Also the ending of the last book was beautifully written and made me cry. I really hope they do a tv series someday. It’s a good story that needs to be told.
Amazing video as always !!! Could make a video about how the series Buffy The Vampire Slayer changed television ? Or how it is one of the greatest series of all time ? Please
Listen, I loved the divergent books, and shadowhunters books. They are a guilty pleasure, but one I will defend. I did rather enjoy the shadowhunters tv show, despite its flaws. Also, the divergent books were captivating, except for that last big spoilers thing you mentioned at the end making no sense, still got me in the feels though
@@BetterWithBob I mean should Four be alone forever just cuz Triss died? And who better than Christina? Isn't real love wanting the other person to be happy? People who think Four should've died too or stayed alone forever are thinking of him more like a possession than a person, imo. I'd also bet most of those who were/are the most upset about it are younger readers.
You know what's aggravating? Hollywood didn't start making these young adult action movies until a decade or so after I was out of high school. I came of age in the late 90s and early 2000s and pretty much every teen movie back then was either a comedy or a horror film. Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot of that stuff, but I always wanted to see an occasional action film where the heroes were young people and that just wasn't a thing, not unless it was some cheesy, slapstick, family friendly garbage like Clockstoppers or Agent Cody Banks. I know we had shows like Buffy, Roswell, and Dark Angel, to name a few, but no movies like this, Maze Runner, Hunger Games, or I Am Number 4, so I have an appreciation for this stuff. For this particular franchise, I'm still annoyed we didn't get that final movie. If the studio was still willing to spend the money to continue it in some capacity, then there's no reason they couldn't have made that last one to wrap everything up. However, now that there's more books in this universe, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets redone as a TV series at some point in the future. That's what happening with I Am Number 4, which I'm excited about since the sequels never got made.
It was weird to try to make the biggest movie star at the time to take part in a TV movie or series. It was a surprise to no one that she refused. I remember the media being offended on her behalf for even asking 😂
Dark angel :O , suchj a good underrated series, even if season 2 agrumently is places, still great. And surprisingly stacked of a pre fame cast. Plus so good cyberpunk themed scifi. Thats fun too. And kinda hit the after 911 mood before 911. Predicting kinda how such a thing might change americas psyche. plus cyberpunk. also logan is such a great representation.
I always found 4 to be the more interesting character. He had the actual backstory. He had the character growth. His storylines are ultimately what drive the story forward. And it’s usually him saving the day. Tris unfortunately suffers from “chosen one” syndrome where she’s special just because.
Yes I love how she isn’t the best because of some prophecy or because of some skill she has because of her hard upbringing. She just trains and gets slowly better which is made so much more prominent in the books. The chasm scene in the book hits so much harder because of this as you follow the recruits for a while longer and see their desperation heighten
how so, indeed? that scene was less "influencers bad" and more "in pursuit of rejecting vanity, the faction has lost the sense of itself and tyrannically put that on its people". tris was a teenage girl, discovering herself and she was denied that by her faction. it was to tie into the point on how every faction had negatives and how badly it affected the children in their formative years instead of allowing them to develop naturally into full-rounded beings.
I really liked the first 2 Divergent movies not so much the 3rd. The Shadowhunter Chronicles is at least not The Dresden Files when it comes to Live Action Adaptations lol. The books are still way better though… Edit- I didn’t realize just how much I liked Theo James until just now lol
i am confused a bit. wasn't it said in the books that four is not divergent, just "genetically damaged"? or the movies weren't direct about is, so the characterization ends up being different?
I think it’s awesome she made the book before finishing college. That’s some determination there. I really liked the movies. I should read the books. I’m not sure why the last movie bombed so much when I thought it was actually a decent movie. I didn’t like how the critics just compared it to hunger games over 3 movies then crapped on anything good about them so some people never went to see them.
I believe the third book was already the most divisive of the three to begin with, and the movie made a lot of changes that could be seen in the trailer, and the second had also made some changes that weren't popular, so a lot of book fans just stayed away. It also didn't help that the budget was needlessly high. Divergent is definitely a mid budget franchise, so the first having only $80 million was how it should have stayed. Allegiant had up to $140 million, which was just unreasonable to see a return on
I am in the process of getting a diagnosis for A(u)DHD so thanks to your video I understand more why I felt the being divergent part so relatable. When I watched the movies at least the last two of them, me and my bf were at our most toxic part in our relationship. I don’t really remember having an opinion on it. I listened to the audiobook of the first book on UA-cam and I really liked it. But I think I struggle to really enjoy stuff that is declared as bad by the most or at least the ones around me if I don’t have a strong opinion on it. Thank you for being so brave and talking about stuff others bad mouthed 💗💗💗 I love to watch your videos and I only skip the ones when it comes to shows and movies I haven’t watched yet and you motivate me to watch them just so I can enjoy your videos without any spoilers. ❤ I am sorry you were made fun of 😢 Here are some virtual hugs if you consent ♥️🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂♥️ The hint you gave that you suffer abuse makes me feel bad for you but also empathise. For me it was SA.. But I think I mentioned it many times before your Sucker Punch video helped me very much, just by feeling so deeply understood 💗💗💗 Every time I hear someone say it is garbage or just a male fantasy I show them the video, but to be honest I only heard it said by one UA-camr since then 😅 It always makes me happy if you bring out something new about stuff that I have watched. I am looking forward to your future content and thank you for bringing new perspectives, more appreciation and less judgement into my life with what you create ♥️♥️♥️
I WISH they still made book adaptations. I don’t think Divergent does anything exciting or new, but the first movie is pretty good. After that, I do feel like it goes off the rails.
I love Digervent and rewatch it annualy, I'd say. The romance between Tris and Four is just so good. And I think Twilight is the reason this genre got so much hate, not Divergent. It became cool to hate this stuff when it became cool to hate Twilight.
Fair, the romance is actually ptretty good and strong characters that are earnest and , not usual. An the worst sin it can be is forgettable and the actress makes it, not forgettable.
Ever tackling the shanarra chrionicles thats , also kinda weird but really great actors. Or the 100 thats a pretty good series that gets better and, really well mixes dystopian scifi , with the ya part, tht makes it personally more excusable they do some dumb stuff, as its shown they are teenager which surprisingly works well with the drama, and traumas shown and people making mistakes but also shown as being in really a bad place in a no good choices and that at least partly really felt. Its great, and personally octavia is my favourite but deaths actually are felt while you have balanced hopefulness, even with a lot dark humor. And they mess up too. No good guys. Oh and the magicians is a great series, episode 8 they really find the dark fairytale tome too fairly early , and season 1 has to set up things too, and the characters, love that messes of youngish college adults. Plus again excelent dark humor while being earnest
Alas I wanted to get into The Shannara Chronicles but could never get past either episode 3 or 4. Shame because I really like Manu Bennett, Poppy Drayton and Aaron Jakubenko
I loved the first movie and book. Yes, they were thin and derivative, but, it was an interesting concept that felt more plausible than many YA premises. I felt like the sequel books, and films, did get a bit muddled up and struggled to develop upon the weak foundations of the first book but Insurgent was still good enough. Allegiant, both the book and film, was awful though. Having Tris basically become a Jesus figure really annoyed me and felt like Game of Thrones levels of "f- it, just end it". I felt like it weakened the actual point of, and was so far removed from, the original story that it might as well not be related at all. I also enjoyed the "Four Collection" of short stories. It made me wonder if Veronica Roth is just at her best when she's doing short, isolated, stories. As soon as she starts trying to elaborate, or create a developed story, she gets confused and messes up. Maybe she's improved now, I don't know, but everything after the reveal that Chicago was an experiment to try and heal our DNA or whatever just didn't work for me. The story wasn't about Chicago or the Factions anymore, and dealing with that, it was about this whole other thing. She should have removed that idea or at least waited until she'd actually finished the first story and then moved onto the other thing after that. Like yourself, I still watch the original every now and then as a comfort film... even as I reach the upper-limit of the age range for YA fiction.
I have to disagree with you about Katherine McNamara in Shadow Hunters. Her acting was definitely a problem. I recognize she isn't solely to blame for the script given to her; however, that doesn't change the reality that her performance was lacking. There was nothing subtle in her acting. McNamara's performance, and especially her range, fell short. Lily Collins may have her critics, but her performance was undeniably better.
Nah I rewatched it recently and felt that she was trying very hard to sell the material and make it work. And yay for her being an actual redhead (Hollywood tends to cast blondes and brunettes in wigs and hair dye because gingers are considered 'ugly')
I read the books a few months before the first movie came out i absolutely love the books i really enjoyed the first two films but not allegiant shailene Woodley and theo james did a great job it was interesting seeing kate Winslet play a villain
How is sexism a cliche? Why is it bad to highlight that in desperate times, we always fall back to a more patriarchal society? For me thats just realistic storytelling and as long as you don’t use it to romanticise sexism, but give a societal critic, i don’t understand what you point is? How is a dystopian society without sexism and racism more believable??? What😭 I totally get that it doesn’t have to be present in every film, but saying that it is a cliche is so weird. Movies and books are a way of putting a mirror in front of the society and comment on it’s state, including sexism and racism as part of stories is not a cliche???
It's a cliché because it's been in stories since the 70s and relies on simplistic narratives of 'men = predators, women = victims', and they're often just lazily using shorthand from our world to convey 'thing bad' even when it wouldn't make sense for the setting - Mad Max: Fury Road is refreshing because the oppression stems from controlling a precious resource and the guy controlling it happens to be sexist as well because someone who restricts people's access to water so he can lord it over them is probably going to have a poor view of women as well - Max by contrast never questions Furiosa's skills on account of her gender or the Vuvalini because any extra pair of hands that can get the job done is what counts in such a society. What Lindsay Ellis highlights in her articles is that most of these stories use it as set dressing or don't put the work in to unpack it or examine how the society has devolved to that I love 28 Days Later but the entire third act hinges on us buying that a group of characters we've only just been introduced to would be driven to raping a 12-year-old after only a month and the rationale is "well, men amirite" and there's only one guy in that entire group of soldiers that has a problem with that - it's not a group of friends with similar views in an echo chamber, it's a military unit full of different people from different walks of life, where there would realistically be loads of different perspectives that the movie doesn't unpack. It happening in real life doesn't prevent it from being overused in fiction - people claim the damsel in distress is cliché and yet human trafficking is a huge problem in the world today The Divergent world appears to function as a utopia and it's believable to me because it's presented as a world where everyone gets a chance. History proves that if you try to oppress an entire group of people based on identity then you just end up making plenty of enemies and encouraging them to rebel one day. But by making it a system that seems to benefit everyone except those who don't live within it, you're less likely to get an out and out rebellion. Whether you're cast out is based on something you can control, and targeting Divergents for a thing they can't control is what leads to the system collapsing.
I’m probably one of the few people who found everything about the hunger games horrible and annoying. I only watched any of them because of an ex I can’t remember anything that was notable I liked at any point though. I did enjoy the divergent series and do wish they had the chance to tell the end of the story even if it was a tv show it would be cool.
I would love to see a review based off the twilight series, as it’s something that gets so much hate when it has moments that really aren’t all that bad . Even Bella is too harshly criticised and I thought her book counterpart was an interesting character.
The only decent moments Twilight has (in the books) are the moments without Bella and instead spent on fleshing out some of the secondary characters. I don't think that's a good thing for a story, to have their main character be the weakest link and least interesting character.
they should re-make it as "Neurodivergent". just the same plot to a t, but divergents are called neurodivergent, everyone else is neurotypical. and no, it shouldn't make any sense. ideally it would be also the same exact actors, now aged, playing the same exact roles, age included
@@BetterWithBob I’ll have to rewatch the others soon just to see how I current day feel about them haha. Yeah, her hair was pretty bad. Looked great for The Fault in Our Stars but I really did not like it for Insurgent 🤪
@@kleebaggins supposedly they offered her a wig but she worried about it looking too fake for the action scenes - which seems weird, since a movie with a $110 million budget could probably afford a good wig lol.
Alligent is one of the worst films I’ve ever seen. Someone said it best “if you’ve watched the trailer, you’ve seen the movie”. It’s not that it’s even bad it just……nothing. It’s a nothing movie
Lol this and maze runner are kind of guilty pleasures Also id argue that the Hunger Games are straight up great movies. Honestly thought they were all totally legit despite being aimed at teenage girls or whatever
That's a good point about her having to actually train to become good. I really liked how she got her ass kicked at first. You don't really see that with action protagonists nowadays.
And you almost never see it with Action Girls. You usually meet them when they're already skilled or have a different conflict that needs to be overcome
@@BetterWithBob maybe you should to a whole video on GI Jane. Lol. Talk about working for it
@@FaithOriginalisme I do remember liking that film so it's a possibility for sure XD
The same kind of happened with Katniss. She was great with a bow but kind of terrible at everything else
I also appreciated the fact that not only were Tris and Four divergent, random nameless background characters were divergent.
Yes, it made it feel less like a 'Mary Sue' condition, and that we were just following a journey specific to Tris. And with the one Eric being a Dauntless member, we can assume he passed the test and hid it as well
As someone who also thought that shadowhunters had its flaws I too believe that Katherine MacNamara was not the problem and was a good Clary Fray bring a lot of heart and strength to a character that was always there. Hope to hear your thoughts about shadowhunters one day.
It's been so long since I watched and I never actually finished Season 3. I should revisit it at some point
@@BetterWithBob Katherine McNamara is a delightful portrayl as Clary. She's energetic, creative, vigilant and curious. Some people could get annoyed by her stubborness or think of her solely as a liability due to being Valentine's daughter but she refuses to limit herself this way.
She reminds even the most revered Shadowhunters that emotions can be beneficial when in war and keep you focused.
I too would love to see this
Definitely agree I love the show honestly despite its cheesy moment but Jace really brings down the energy, everyone else I significantly prefer to the movie but movie Jace was so much better 😭
@lillyevans5824 Movie Jace (Jamie Campbell Bower) also did a fantastic job as Vecna (number 1) and was pretty good in his limited bit as a young Grindelwald - I could definitely see how young Dumbledore would fall for him!
I remember Divergent fondly as one of the first movies I watched in its original language in English class (I'm German)
And I also remember how the death of Triss' mother was at the time one of the only instances of an actor bringing the appropriate level of hysteria to witnessing the brutal death of a loved one.
So yeah I also wouldn't call it a masterpiece but I feel a lot of warmth towards it.
I love Divergent and Insurgent - Allegiant, not so much. But I really appreciate the underlying theme. I'm autistic and I definitely see the parallels between being Divergent and being autistic and how society needs people to fit into neat boxes in order to "keep people in their place". Divergent people interrupt the status quo by being the canaries in the coal mine and highlighting how limiting it is to be confined to one singular trait or "faction".
I've often been seen as a trouble maker just for asking "why" when things don't make logical sense. Instead of being seen as someone with the desire and ability to view things from multiple angles, you get labeled as a problem for not shutting up and complying. It is extremely limiting and doesn't allow people to expand and actually understand the fullness of the human experience. If you're just supposed to "stick with your kind" then you miss out on enjoying the complexity that is the tapestry of human expression.
Yeah my counsellor put it best once (she's neurodivergent too) - the only real problem with the condition is that the world isn't built for us
@@BetterWithBobThough, at this rate, it's not really built for anyone but the rich.
@@BetterWithBob Wow, it wasn't until I read this comment that I realized that's what Divergent was. I was diagnosed ADHD at 53, so...
This is all cozy and wholesome until you realize that people can be frustrating and can find you frustrating.
Just like how you feel frustrated that people tell you to quiet down, they are frustrated that you aren't. Perhaps you couldn't read the room and made everything awkward. A party pooper, if you will. And what do we then have? People being frustrated about each other. You don't like them for not giving you enough of a fair shot and they don't like you for "ruining" the mood. And then we get WW3.
The world isn't as happy-go-lucky as we'd want to and we will annoy other people simply by existing. And to wrestle that? You find people who don't get annoyed. Yeah, you can't actually force people into that, surprisingly. That's when you get stuff like fascism (yeah, pretty big leap, but you get the picture).
So it's not about "forcing yourself to be with your kind to avoid the vivid tapestry of diversity for diversity sake", but about hanging out with people that don't make you want to claw your eyes out. If that sounds "problematic" to you, then look at what kind of people you wanna hangout with, right? It's not the people you hate, now is it? And would you like that if you were forced to hangout with them because someone wants you to "enjoy the complexity that is the tapestry of human expression"?
NO! Nobody wants that! You just don't like it when a group you wanna be with doesn't like you. You can't force that on them. You can't force them to accept and like you. Just like you can't force yourself to like them.
And I gotta say: If you have autism and your conclusion is that you asking "why" gets you labelled as a troublemaker: I guarantee it's not that. You are doing something else that annoys people. Probably something akin to taking things too seriously or not seriously enough or something like that. Getting that label by asking questions is what makes no logical sense here.
I recall LOVING the second film just as much and feeling the script and story/tris arc hitting super hard in a spiritual way!!!
Plus the score and music in it SLAPS hard!!! Deserves to be noted and mentioned!
Overall I felt very immersed in the world of Divergent Franchise and the world building/production design was very well realised and fully fleshed out!!!
Shailene carried the films with such finesse and discipline!!! A true SUPERSTAR! 🚀🫶🏻🕊️⚡️ I miss her in movies!
She seems to be doing things her way at least. She made her money thanks to Divergent and Big Little Lies, and seems to only pursue roles that appeal to her artistically
That was a beautiful video 😊 I was a fan of Divergent and will be until the last drop of my blood. I ate and DEVOURED the YA dystopia/fantasy genre back in the day myself with a ginormous spoon for all my moneys worrh and I have no regrets.
The reason I love Tris is we see her grow as she started from a fragile environment and we see her work into the Dauntless warrior role. She's eager to improve and better herself and is very underrated. Even in her moments of doubt, she quickly pulls herself up and thinks of a new way to solve her problem
Tris reminds me of the reason I adore Clary Fairchild and I will NOT tolerate anymore slander against these two young women. They are both flawed as inexperienced fighters and fish out of water characters but they are creative problem solvers and use their emotions as their assets because "emotions serve a purpose" and thats what makes both of them heroes in my eyes.
Yeah Clary seemed to get a lot of unnecessary hate for being "useless" when...like...she's literally been thrust into this world
@@BetterWithBob The books see Clary do a gradual growth from her supposed "whiny, bratty teenage" trappings into a much more confident Shadowhunter. Her street smarts get sharper and her creative nature shines brighter. She is eager to try but not in a way to prove herself to anyone that makes it seem illegitimate and annoying.
I still get mad at Joycelyn for being such a chickenshit of not telling Clary the truth or at the very least, show her the good and the bad of the Nephilim lifestyle. Yes it was for the sake of giving Clary a normal childhood, but I highlight the principle of Joycelyn's cowardice came at the expense of Clary's knowledge and her peers who could guide her without condescension or sugar coating.
I don't mind her and Jace as a couple but THEY WILL ALWAYS PALE IN COMPARISON TO MALEC. MY WORD IS LAW!!!
But Clary isn't the only underrated character of the Shadowhunters Universe (even though she's the main character). Shout out to Maia Roberts for being a fantastic side character who gets as many chapters and she's a delight. But the MVP award has to go to Simon, for all the crap he goes through and his noble sacrifice in the final book
I loved the books. Loved the first Movie but HATED the second movie so much that I never went to see the third film and still haven't.
It's at once both frustrating and thrilling, because the segments dealing with the civil war in Chicago are so good, but everything in the Bureau...you can tell they rushed it
@@BetterWithBob I remember getting out of the theater for the second film wanting to punch something or someone because I had finished reading the second book a few weeks prior and the changes made for visual aesthetics or story changes made because the director said so didn't make sense for the world or the plot.
@@RachaelTheFirboldDruid supposedly Lionsgate execs pressured the new director to ignore Neil Burger's vision
I never read the books first, just in case.
The way I ran to this video. My favourite commentator with all his ultra correct takes; and this one didn't disappoint one bit. An insightful, nuanced view given with genuine fondness and good faith. I love how empathic and emotionally intelligent you are. I love that you find no barrier to relating to a teenage girl, where for so many people that would be enough to dismiss her. I love your self awareness about your biases but your conviction regardless to enjoy things you find meaningful with no apology. You are an absolute delight to listen to.❤
Society has always been vitriolically contemptuous of a) genre fiction, b) anything teens enjoy, and c) ESPECIALLY anything written by or for women/girls. All three together is a cocktail for critics gnashing their teeth all over the internet. Rest assured female authors are entirely used to their work being referred to as "not real writing" by Gen X film studies grads who pretend their favourite artists (usually someone along the lines of Quentin Tarantino) aren't equally based in wish-fulfillment and pseudo profundity.
Can't wait to see what you bring for us next!
Thank you so much for your comment :) Made my day
It's so great to see someone else who gets that. I've never enjoyed a Tarantino movie, although I think the 2 Kill Bill movies are at least watchable to me, but I'm self-aware enough to know that his films AREN'T made for me! On the other hand, Buffy, Charmed, the Underworld and Hunger Games movies, LoTR, and Sucker Punch are right up my alley - but the critics have endless criticism for at least half of that list and at the same time they have endless praise for almost everything Tarantino makes.
I have a theory (that it's a demon, a dancing demon... sorry, my Buffy brain always intrudes when I use that phrase, lol) that many of the movies I love become "cult classics" years after their release because too many people, and even critics, pay too much attention to a very few critics and entertainment news sources that give early negative reviews or judge too much on box office receipts, and they either don't go see these movies or they go to hate-watch instead of watching with an open mind. Then, years later, once the negativity has dissipated, more people watch these movies with an open mind and they end up loving them, too.
The OG is Rocky Horror, but that one grew legs because of the midnight screenings and the whole freaky show that grew up around it rather than it being good - with the exception of the fantastic Tim Curry, of course, who played Frank-N-Furter with such sexual abandon that he became many Gen-Xers bisexual awakening. However, some other, more well-known movies are considered cult classics like Constantine (pray that the rumors of #2 are real), Donnie Darko, The Crow, Labrynth (with David Bowie filling Tim Curry's eye-opening role for the Millenials), and even our beloved The Princess Bride were all considered flops for one reason or another at their releases. My personal favorites that people are coming around on are The Village and Sucker Punch, but they're not up to cult classic status yet.
Of course, there are cult classic TV shows, too. Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly (problematic creator/showrunner not withstanding) both started out maligned by critics and audiences alike, but over the years they both have been recognized as the gems they are. However, Supernatural and Doctor Who have yet to get much love outside of their respective fandoms, except for the occasional mentions about their longevity - which should be a hint to people that they must have SOMETHING going on for them to have lasted so long in the cutthroat cancel-culture world of broadcast television.
I guess my long-winded point is that we love what we love, so ignore the haters and find your people somewhere on the internet like Reddit.
@@Kayjee17"I've never enjoyed a Tarantino movie"
How dare you
For me, Divergent suffers in the same way as game of thrones does: the great start suffers from the unsatisfactory conclusion, which for me makes the older parts less enjoyable since i know where it leads to..
Interesting point
Divergent is such a weird IP for me. I never really liked reading, mostly because I am very slow at it and always was jealous of people that could just sit down and read a book in 1 weekend. But I was finishing middle school when the Hunger Games movie was being made, and I decided to read the book. I fell in love with the world and swiftly read Catching Fire the fastest I had ever read a book in my life, and struggled my way through Mockingjay. One of my teachers, who knew I wasn't into reading much but noticed I had been hooked by Hunger Games, suggested I give Divergent a read. Although I never finished Allegiant, Divergent and Insurgent were very good reads for me. I think that the first movie is almost a perfect adaption, but Insurgent was such a let down for me. That being said I think that Shailene Woodley and Theo James were perfectly cast as Tris and Four. I mean the whole cast was perfectly casted, even Kate Winslet who I only had seen playing good guys, played the villain perfectly.
Gosh would love your review of Immortal instruments movie
Hehe maybe one day sure
Oh god, I had to watch that in cinema with friends and it was pure torture. The only thing that saved me was my childhood crush Kevin Zegers and seeing that a resident german actor kind of made it in hollywood 😆 (Elyas M'Barek. Love that guy) and Lily Collins is a much better actress than whoever they cast in that tv show.
I'd disagree. Katherine McNamara really did some heavy lifting in the initial days when no one knew what they were doing
@@BetterWithBob Weird. Me and my friends heavily disliked her acting during the first season but I thought you could really see her grow as an actress and she started to become one of my favourites in the series by the third.
or series, hmm.
You should do a video about :
THE GIVER
THE SIGNAL
(Both starring Brenton Thwaites!)
They are both great sci-fi/post apocalyptic/dystopian YA films!!! Imo
Haha never saw either of them
@@BetterWithBob definitely worth your while, especially for the giver in comparison to Divergent and Hunger Games
@BetterWithBob the book "The Giver" is far better than the film imo
@@sassylittleprophet I read The Giver by Lois Lowry back in university for a book club. When I heard about the movie adaptation. We all went to see it. It was a good film despite it's low funding. But it showed each character's intentions, arcs and overall view of the world itself. We enjoyed some of the changes they made. It brought all characters to live. Gosh! I need to re-read the book again. 📖 😊
Thinking back on it now, I watched this whilst I was backpacking for several months to work out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life and this film categorised goals and life paths so distinctly that I think I latched onto that certainty and commitment to a path that I was scared to take for myself. I have rewatched so many times and just find it a comforting film
I really enjoyed the first two books back when they first came out, but I got spoiled on the ending of the third book and just never finished it... kinda like the films. However, your enthusiasm for this series has made me consider giving it another try - along with you letting me know that there is one more book plus a "follow-up story" that might take the sting out of the ending of Allegiant. Plus, thanks to one of your comments, I can read the story of Tris knowing that I am a fellow (neuro)Divergent, something that you helped me see - along with my fantastic therapist who diagnosed me with ADHD at 53 and changed my life. Thanks, Bob!
Aww that is great to hear :)
I had no idea they got so much hate back in the day (even now?). I really enjoyed the books and the movies and I'm forever sad and mad that they didn't make that final movie.
Yeah it was baffling to hear the hate first and then watch the movies and be like "I don't get it"
Seems like you really missed the point of Hermione - she is very intelligent, but she studies CONSTANTLY. She works her ass off for her success. Harry on the other hand, shows up at Hogwarts and is somehow the best seeker in 100 years despite having never touched a broom, and has quite a bit of natural magical talent. Not to mention, even if Hermione was just a genius who knew everything without studying (which is the opposite of what she is) she still isn’t athletic (can’t play quidditch) and has very poor social skills so she’s not exactly some perfect Mary Sue. I don’t know why people are so insistent on always needing justification for female characters to be good at stuff, and/or ignoring it when it’s present. See: constant complains about how Abby from TLOU 2 couldn’t possibly be super buff because it’s the apocalypse and they don’t have enough protein or something - yet I’ve never seen someone question how male characters do the same thing in the same situation. It only requires justification because she’s a woman. Would it be harder for her to build up that kind of muscle than a man? Absolutely. But if you need justification for her, you should need it at some level for everyone, and people just don’t have those standards for male characters.
You seem to have missed the part where I said that the films filed off most of the times she messed up or was in the wrong. Such as:
*The Devil's Snare scene - movie Hermione doesn't panic and forget she can do magic like the book
*The Mudblood bit - movie Hermione automatically knows the slur and doesn't have to have it explained
*The Crookshanks and Scabbers stuff is minimised so Hermione never blows up at Harry and Ron and has to swallow her pride to apologise to them. In fact, when he turns up alive, the movie tries to put Hermione on the moral high ground
*Getting Ron's line about "if you have to kill Harry, you have to kill us too"
*Not passing out when she tries to cast a Patronus
*No showing her failing the Boggart exam by freaking out about being told she'd failed everything
*Not showing the effect the Time Turner has on her, where she's shown to be cracking under the workload, and here it's just a convenient way to solve things. As well as adding in Hermione being the one to realise they can influence the past, which is something only Harry does in the book, though I do like this change
*Removing the SPEW stuff that shows how out of touch she is
*There's no emphasis during the Ron/Harry fallout that Harry just isn't as close with Hermione and doesn't have as much fun as her
*No moment of her embarrassing herself in front of Dumbledore when trying to convince Hagrid to return to teaching
*Downplaying her petty jealousy over Harry using the Half Blood Prince's book
*Removing her being more concerned with taking the moral high ground and saying I told you so after the Sectumsempra bit, and having to get put in her place by Ginny
*Lessening the bit where she's responsible for Harry's wand getting destroyed
*Showing her as a far more convincing Bellatrix impersonator when in the book, her having Bellatrix's wand is what tips the goblins off that she's an impostor
Those are the ones that come to mind at the minute
This book and movie is a true coming of age story for teenagers, i still have so many good memories related to it
Aww great
@@BetterWithBob also, is genuinely so nice to hear someone saying good things about this series. I feel the divergent renaissance coming, we dit it for twilight, we can do this for divergent
After Secret Life i didnt think id ever like Shailene Woodley but she really killed Tris and other characters. I really became a fan when she was arrested for protesting the Datoka pipeline.
(Edit) Eric is Varro?!?!?!??! Im a huuuuge Spartacus fan. I've never clocked that 😭
In fairness I didn't realise until halfway through and I probably wouldn't have if I hadn't seen his name in the credits 😂
as an avid divergent fan THANK U FORVTHIS DEEP DIVE what wonderful takes
Thanks for watching 🙂
REALLY enjoyed the Shailene Woodley appreciation! She's one of my favorite actors; her range is so good.
She is so underrated
I never really cared about Hunger Games, but man... I absolutely loved Divergent and Maze Runner.
Maze Runner is so so good and never gets talked about
oo great video! as someone who hasn't read/watched divergent, it's great to get another perspective on this!
Thanks for watching :)
I still have feelings about the books: 1 and 2 have the same ending (some pieces-parts are tweaked, but it is the same ending), and Tris' martyr-complex and eventual sacrificial exit felt forced, but Shailene Woodly did have a great performance in the role, and brought more likability to the character for me.
Personally i was obsessed with the books when they came out and loved the first film at release but (unfortunately i don't remember the specifics) hated the sequel, maybe thinking it not as good as the book, which made me not watch any of the rest of the franchise because i didn't want to see them ruin the rest of the books i loved. Being 10 years away from that i can see i was being childish about my reasoning but I've given the first movie and book another try to see them as an adult and now they're just boring to me. Love to hear other people liking them though but i probably won't give them a third chance, at least for a while.
The biggest thing wrong with the Divergent series is that they didn't finish it.
They went so far from the book in the third movie, that for me it's better that they didn't push to make the fourth movie.
Would have been nice to see what the plan was for Ascendant
As someone who loved the books, the first movie was good. The others…not so much. They completely changed the story by adding the whole “you are the only one” trope. That wasn’t in the books. There are many divergents. That’s the whole point. Also the ending of the last book was beautifully written and made me cry. I really hope they do a tv series someday. It’s a good story that needs to be told.
Yes! Would watch the hell out of a TV series!
I think people questioned Josh Hutcherson specifically because they did watch Bridge to Tabitha
I will say this with my chest, I actually REALLY love this series.
We say it loud and proud!
My god thank you for this, Shailene Woodley is phenomenal
True 😄
28:03 what do you care how many non white characters are in these movies? Movies don’t have to include them to be good movies.
Amazing video as always !!! Could make a video about how the series Buffy The Vampire Slayer changed television ? Or how it is one of the greatest series of all time ? Please
haha that's a tall order
Listen, I loved the divergent books, and shadowhunters books. They are a guilty pleasure, but one I will defend. I did rather enjoy the shadowhunters tv show, despite its flaws.
Also, the divergent books were captivating, except for that last big spoilers thing you mentioned at the end making no sense, still got me in the feels though
Hehe how do you feel about Four and Christina hooking up?
@@BetterWithBob I mean should Four be alone forever just cuz Triss died? And who better than Christina?
Isn't real love wanting the other person to be happy? People who think Four should've died too or stayed alone forever are thinking of him more like a possession than a person, imo. I'd also bet most of those who were/are the most upset about it are younger readers.
You know what's aggravating? Hollywood didn't start making these young adult action movies until a decade or so after I was out of high school. I came of age in the late 90s and early 2000s and pretty much every teen movie back then was either a comedy or a horror film. Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot of that stuff, but I always wanted to see an occasional action film where the heroes were young people and that just wasn't a thing, not unless it was some cheesy, slapstick, family friendly garbage like Clockstoppers or Agent Cody Banks. I know we had shows like Buffy, Roswell, and Dark Angel, to name a few, but no movies like this, Maze Runner, Hunger Games, or I Am Number 4, so I have an appreciation for this stuff. For this particular franchise, I'm still annoyed we didn't get that final movie. If the studio was still willing to spend the money to continue it in some capacity, then there's no reason they couldn't have made that last one to wrap everything up. However, now that there's more books in this universe, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets redone as a TV series at some point in the future. That's what happening with I Am Number 4, which I'm excited about since the sequels never got made.
I really wanted to like I Am Number Four lol
@@BetterWithBob Hopefully, you'll like the show.
It was weird to try to make the biggest movie star at the time to take part in a TV movie or series. It was a surprise to no one that she refused. I remember the media being offended on her behalf for even asking 😂
Dark angel :O , suchj a good underrated series, even if season 2 agrumently is places, still great. And surprisingly stacked of a pre fame cast.
Plus so good cyberpunk themed scifi. Thats fun too. And kinda hit the after 911 mood before 911. Predicting kinda how such a thing might change americas psyche. plus cyberpunk.
also logan is such a great representation.
I always found 4 to be the more interesting character. He had the actual backstory. He had the character growth. His storylines are ultimately what drive the story forward. And it’s usually him saving the day.
Tris unfortunately suffers from “chosen one” syndrome where she’s special just because.
I never had the hatred for chosen one narratives so it never bothered me
Yes I love how she isn’t the best because of some prophecy or because of some skill she has because of her hard upbringing. She just trains and gets slowly better which is made so much more prominent in the books. The chasm scene in the book hits so much harder because of this as you follow the recruits for a while longer and see their desperation heighten
"Book adaptations are looking kinda refreshing by today's standards, huh?" Truer words were never spoken, my friend...
We need a Callatis adaptation stat
@@BetterWithBob Let me get at least a few more volumes out... But then, yes. I agree. XD
I think about the scene with her mother and the mirror in her family home quite a lot in this age of social media and influencers
Oh how so? I know Instagram had been around for a couple of years by that point but didn't seem nearly as troubling as today
how so, indeed? that scene was less "influencers bad" and more "in pursuit of rejecting vanity, the faction has lost the sense of itself and tyrannically put that on its people". tris was a teenage girl, discovering herself and she was denied that by her faction. it was to tie into the point on how every faction had negatives and how badly it affected the children in their formative years instead of allowing them to develop naturally into full-rounded beings.
I never read the books but I really enjoyed this movie! It's one I can put on and watch at almost any time now.
Ah great ^_^
I really liked the first 2 Divergent movies not so much the 3rd. The Shadowhunter Chronicles is at least not The Dresden Files when it comes to Live Action Adaptations lol. The books are still way better though…
Edit- I didn’t realize just how much I liked Theo James until just now lol
He is quite underrated tbf lol
i am confused a bit. wasn't it said in the books that four is not divergent, just "genetically damaged"? or the movies weren't direct about is, so the characterization ends up being different?
I feel like that was less nostalgia critic and more film master Adham complaining about these movies
I think it’s awesome she made the book before finishing college. That’s some determination there. I really liked the movies. I should read the books. I’m not sure why the last movie bombed so much when I thought it was actually a decent movie. I didn’t like how the critics just compared it to hunger games over 3 movies then crapped on anything good about them so some people never went to see them.
I believe the third book was already the most divisive of the three to begin with, and the movie made a lot of changes that could be seen in the trailer, and the second had also made some changes that weren't popular, so a lot of book fans just stayed away. It also didn't help that the budget was needlessly high. Divergent is definitely a mid budget franchise, so the first having only $80 million was how it should have stayed. Allegiant had up to $140 million, which was just unreasonable to see a return on
10 years?! I feel old….
The pension queue is only a few years away now
I am in the process of getting a diagnosis for A(u)DHD so thanks to your video I understand more why I felt the being divergent part so relatable. When I watched the movies at least the last two of them, me and my bf were at our most toxic part in our relationship. I don’t really remember having an opinion on it. I listened to the audiobook of the first book on UA-cam and I really liked it. But I think I struggle to really enjoy stuff that is declared as bad by the most or at least the ones around me if I don’t have a strong opinion on it.
Thank you for being so brave and talking about stuff others bad mouthed 💗💗💗
I love to watch your videos and I only skip the ones when it comes to shows and movies I haven’t watched yet and you motivate me to watch them just so I can enjoy your videos without any spoilers. ❤
I am sorry you were made fun of 😢
Here are some virtual hugs if you consent ♥️🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂♥️
The hint you gave that you suffer abuse makes me feel bad for you but also empathise. For me it was SA..
But I think I mentioned it many times before your Sucker Punch video helped me very much, just by feeling so deeply understood 💗💗💗
Every time I hear someone say it is garbage or just a male fantasy I show them the video, but to be honest I only heard it said by one UA-camr since then 😅
It always makes me happy if you bring out something new about stuff that I have watched. I am looking forward to your future content and thank you for bringing new perspectives, more appreciation and less judgement into my life with what you create ♥️♥️♥️
Thank you for your lovely comment. Virtual hugs received and reciprocated 😊
I WISH they still made book adaptations. I don’t think Divergent does anything exciting or new, but the first movie is pretty good. After that, I do feel like it goes off the rails.
I think they still make a few. They just go straight to Netflix now sadly
Please make more videos like this on other books, this video is well made.
I love Digervent and rewatch it annualy, I'd say. The romance between Tris and Four is just so good.
And I think Twilight is the reason this genre got so much hate, not Divergent. It became cool to hate this stuff when it became cool to hate Twilight.
Fair, the romance is actually ptretty good and strong characters that are earnest and , not usual.
An the worst sin it can be is forgettable and the actress makes it, not forgettable.
Is Divergent 'Good Actually'?
No, but do continue.
😂😂😂
Ever tackling the shanarra chrionicles thats , also kinda weird but really great actors.
Or the 100 thats a pretty good series that gets better and, really well mixes dystopian scifi , with the ya part, tht makes it personally more excusable they do some dumb stuff, as its shown they are teenager which surprisingly works well with the drama, and traumas shown and people making mistakes but also shown as being in really a bad place in a no good choices and that at least partly really felt.
Its great, and personally octavia is my favourite but deaths actually are felt while you have balanced hopefulness, even with a lot dark humor. And they mess up too. No good guys.
Oh and the magicians is a great series, episode 8 they really find the dark fairytale tome too fairly early , and season 1 has to set up things too, and the characters, love that messes of youngish college adults. Plus again excelent dark humor while being earnest
Alas I wanted to get into The Shannara Chronicles but could never get past either episode 3 or 4. Shame because I really like Manu Bennett, Poppy Drayton and Aaron Jakubenko
I loved the first movie and book. Yes, they were thin and derivative, but, it was an interesting concept that felt more plausible than many YA premises. I felt like the sequel books, and films, did get a bit muddled up and struggled to develop upon the weak foundations of the first book but Insurgent was still good enough. Allegiant, both the book and film, was awful though. Having Tris basically become a Jesus figure really annoyed me and felt like Game of Thrones levels of "f- it, just end it". I felt like it weakened the actual point of, and was so far removed from, the original story that it might as well not be related at all.
I also enjoyed the "Four Collection" of short stories. It made me wonder if Veronica Roth is just at her best when she's doing short, isolated, stories. As soon as she starts trying to elaborate, or create a developed story, she gets confused and messes up. Maybe she's improved now, I don't know, but everything after the reveal that Chicago was an experiment to try and heal our DNA or whatever just didn't work for me. The story wasn't about Chicago or the Factions anymore, and dealing with that, it was about this whole other thing. She should have removed that idea or at least waited until she'd actually finished the first story and then moved onto the other thing after that.
Like yourself, I still watch the original every now and then as a comfort film... even as I reach the upper-limit of the age range for YA fiction.
27:57 28:24 does it matter what the skin color these characters have? Representation isn’t that important in books, movies and tv shows.
Fun fact alligent is the ONLY book my wife has never finished. It’s that bad
I think not and especially so after becoming tired of dystopia.
I have to disagree with you about Katherine McNamara in Shadow Hunters.
Her acting was definitely a problem.
I recognize she isn't solely to blame for the script given to her; however, that doesn't change the reality that her performance was lacking.
There was nothing subtle in her acting.
McNamara's performance, and especially her range, fell short.
Lily Collins may have her critics, but her performance was undeniably better.
Nah I rewatched it recently and felt that she was trying very hard to sell the material and make it work. And yay for her being an actual redhead (Hollywood tends to cast blondes and brunettes in wigs and hair dye because gingers are considered 'ugly')
I feel like you haven't read Song of the Lioness or Protector of the Small
Nope never even heard of them
@@BetterWithBob foundational fantasy series, discipline to achieve is the backbone
They are by an author named Tamora Pierce. Check the quartets out for sure.
I love them, i started reading them as a kid
Ah I've heard of Tamora sure
This video deserves more views
Thank you :) Feel free to share around XD
I read the books a few months before the first movie came out i absolutely love the books i really enjoyed the first two films but not allegiant shailene Woodley and theo james did a great job it was interesting seeing kate Winslet play a villain
Thanks for watching Angela :)
How is sexism a cliche? Why is it bad to highlight that in desperate times, we always fall back to a more patriarchal society? For me thats just realistic storytelling and as long as you don’t use it to romanticise sexism, but give a societal critic, i don’t understand what you point is? How is a dystopian society without sexism and racism more believable??? What😭 I totally get that it doesn’t have to be present in every film, but saying that it is a cliche is so weird. Movies and books are a way of putting a mirror in front of the society and comment on it’s state, including sexism and racism as part of stories is not a cliche???
It's a cliché because it's been in stories since the 70s and relies on simplistic narratives of 'men = predators, women = victims', and they're often just lazily using shorthand from our world to convey 'thing bad' even when it wouldn't make sense for the setting - Mad Max: Fury Road is refreshing because the oppression stems from controlling a precious resource and the guy controlling it happens to be sexist as well because someone who restricts people's access to water so he can lord it over them is probably going to have a poor view of women as well - Max by contrast never questions Furiosa's skills on account of her gender or the Vuvalini because any extra pair of hands that can get the job done is what counts in such a society. What Lindsay Ellis highlights in her articles is that most of these stories use it as set dressing or don't put the work in to unpack it or examine how the society has devolved to that
I love 28 Days Later but the entire third act hinges on us buying that a group of characters we've only just been introduced to would be driven to raping a 12-year-old after only a month and the rationale is "well, men amirite" and there's only one guy in that entire group of soldiers that has a problem with that - it's not a group of friends with similar views in an echo chamber, it's a military unit full of different people from different walks of life, where there would realistically be loads of different perspectives that the movie doesn't unpack. It happening in real life doesn't prevent it from being overused in fiction - people claim the damsel in distress is cliché and yet human trafficking is a huge problem in the world today
The Divergent world appears to function as a utopia and it's believable to me because it's presented as a world where everyone gets a chance. History proves that if you try to oppress an entire group of people based on identity then you just end up making plenty of enemies and encouraging them to rebel one day. But by making it a system that seems to benefit everyone except those who don't live within it, you're less likely to get an out and out rebellion. Whether you're cast out is based on something you can control, and targeting Divergents for a thing they can't control is what leads to the system collapsing.
@@BetterWithBob thank you for the explanation, now it makes much more sense to me
I’m probably one of the few people who found everything about the hunger games horrible and annoying. I only watched any of them because of an ex I can’t remember anything that was notable I liked at any point though. I did enjoy the divergent series and do wish they had the chance to tell the end of the story even if it was a tv show it would be cool.
Oh what did you not like about The Hunger Games?
I would love to see a review based off the twilight series, as it’s something that gets so much hate when it has moments that really aren’t all that bad . Even Bella is too harshly criticised and I thought her book counterpart was an interesting character.
Aha not going there I'm afraid. Sarah Z did a near 90 minute video on its resurgence that was nice and balanced
The only decent moments Twilight has (in the books) are the moments without Bella and instead spent on fleshing out some of the secondary characters. I don't think that's a good thing for a story, to have their main character be the weakest link and least interesting character.
Before i start the vid, I wanna firmly say I staunchly have my doubts. Let’s see if I’m convinced otherwise…
Godspeed!
@@BetterWithBob you did it again. If I were keeping scores, my tab would be empty and yours, spilling over.
Now that's one hell of a compliment :O I don't know what to say
they should re-make it as "Neurodivergent".
just the same plot to a t, but divergents are called neurodivergent, everyone else is neurotypical. and no, it shouldn't make any sense.
ideally it would be also the same exact actors, now aged, playing the same exact roles, age included
...interesting
I LOVE the first movie. Haven't cared to rewatch the others after once though haha.
I've rewatched them all and yet I weirdly like Allegiant more than Insurgent. Not sure if that's just me being superficial over Tris's hair lol
@@BetterWithBob I’ll have to rewatch the others soon just to see how I current day feel about them haha.
Yeah, her hair was pretty bad. Looked great for The Fault in Our Stars but I really did not like it for Insurgent 🤪
@@kleebaggins supposedly they offered her a wig but she worried about it looking too fake for the action scenes - which seems weird, since a movie with a $110 million budget could probably afford a good wig lol.
Alligent is one of the worst films I’ve ever seen. Someone said it best “if you’ve watched the trailer, you’ve seen the movie”.
It’s not that it’s even bad it just……nothing. It’s a nothing movie
First! 💥💥💥
Ma boy
I liked the Divergent movies. I wished they had finished the story.
There seems to be talk of a reboot so we shall see
Slytherin pride 🐍
ugh. you lost me with the carol shade. 17:40
The Books are kinda good. The adaptation were terrible
Lol this and maze runner are kind of guilty pleasures
Also id argue that the Hunger Games are straight up great movies. Honestly thought they were all totally legit despite being aimed at teenage girls or whatever
In fairness they weren't aimed just at teenage girls. They were trying to go for a wide appeal
The 1st movie is kinda good, then it got progressively worse. Maze Runner then again is way better than I remember
Great first film, terrible second and decent third
@@BetterWithBob decent second and terrible third. The third movie looked like it was made to be viewed on the ps2
Shailene Woodley Can get it straight up from the tip
Harry Potter is one of the last franchises that had REALISTIC black representation.