Thoughts On BioWare After Reviewing Almost All Of Their Games
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2022
- Talking a bit about bioware as a whole and how I saw their games evolve over the course of reviewing almost all of them!
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#gaming #gamereviews #bioware #biowaregames #masseffect #dragonage - Ігри
My thought on Bioware are the same as my thoughts on Blizzard. I remember being so excited at the idea of a new game with their name on it. Now, total indifference.
I'm personally still looking forward to what comes of the Dragon Age series. As long as its not as bad as DA:I was without QoL mods I'll probably be satisfied with what Dreadwolf has to offer. Hopefully they learned their lesson from both DA:I and Andromeda in terms of quest and zone design after all the backlash.
Let's calm down abit with that comparison though. Blizzard is far worse and is just a despicable inhumane company.
Same. Even though I'm keeping an eye on the new Dragon Age, I'm still kind of wary about it.
@@Mystra Calm down? I don't think I was being dramatic. Blizzard was disappointing me long before any of the recent controversy came to light.
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As you indicated, people on teams come and go and Bioware magic was in fact the product of actual the actual Wizards and Sorcerers at Bioware at the time; they are all but gone now. Of course I want the best for Dragon Age and Mass Effect but if has been raining nonstop it probably is a good idea to take an umbrella. It has been raining for a long time at Bioware. Expectations must be tempered, sadly.
Larian is the new Bioware. The King is dead. Long live the King.
They weren't sorcerers and magicians. Bioware magic was really just another term for project mismanagement and horrible crunch culture.
@@bindair_dundat Yeah and Larian Studios will follow the same arc as BioWare if they get acquired by a large publicly-traded publisher (like EA) and the passionate "real gamer" founders (Swen) leave. From Swen's recent comments though, it seems he has no desire right now to cash in on the great work he and his studio has carried out in D:SO2 and now BG3.
@@TurinTurambar200 That's pretty standard in the industry overall unfortunately. I hope game developers at some point unionize and push back against the ruthless expectations of traditional businessmen (squeeze blood from a stone, maximize ROI).
@@alexandermacneil4430 Thats a big if though, one positive aspect of the internet and live service models that they make it way more likely for selfpublished devs to stay afloat without a giant consuming them
Until I replayed all of these games and started making videos on them, I never realized how bad the time crunching from EA actually was. ME3 & DA2 could've been so perfect. I also liked that you mentioned that Bioware is basically a quarter century old at this point. The same guys that made Jade Empire and Baldurs Gate were probably just coming out of college or even high school then, and now they're probably slowly but surely considering retirement. "Bioware" doesn't mean anything anymore, people look at the logo but fail to realize it's a company, which has seen over thousands of employees come and go over the years
specifically there is virtually no one left from those teams at the company
With the churn involved in videogame development? I guarantee you everyone involved with Jade Empire left the industry *years* ago.
The people don't matter as much as you think, or at least not as much as the studio DNA. As long management understands what type of games people expect from them, it shouldn't be much more difficult to deliver with different people.
@@Rapunzel879 Said studio DNA is actually built-up institutional knowledge. Built up by the people actually working there.
Change too many people to quickly and the knowledge fails to pass on and you get companies that get less and less competitive. Or any kind of organisation really, this can affect anything from software developers to rail companies to police departments.
@@TheStephaneAdam Agreed. But the people that made Mass Effect and Dragon Age were working with FrostBite and UE3, so I don't think that's much of a loss.
I would say the creative side is the bigger problem, the visioners. But that's an indusry-wide issue where you don't see a lot of truly talented creative people taking point on AAA games.
Bioware's strength has generally been its writing of the supporting cast of characters. The 'Companions' usually. Add in a couple of well designed questlines that add some punch to interact with those characters and all the other problems go away. This to an extent is where Andromeda went awry (bugs didn't help obviously). Not the open world bit, which was mostly great (fetch quests excepted), but the small cast who were either OK, boring or just bad (Liam). There was no Mordin or Morrigan. Plus it had no standout questline. It put most of its Companion character interaction into the banter in the Nomad where most players would miss large amounts of it.
@@miceatah9359 I've been fairly vocal that I like the game and regularly replay it. I'm just honest about it having flaws.
@@miceatah9359 lol
@@miceatah9359 Gameplay mechanics wise, it is the best Mass Effect game. Characters, story and overall creative direction it is the worst game ever made by Bioware. Quit being a fanboy and realize that the writers that made the early Mass Effect and Dragon Age games good are gone, left the studio. Can they rebound with new writers ... maybe, but I think they have so much to prove with DA4 that if it is not well received, EA will shutter the doors.
@@O-D-X DA4 been in development hell since Anthem was being made unfortunately I have no faith in bioware whatsoever.
It was the most singuarly uninspired "rpg" I've ever finished. The fact that it was nominally a sequel to some of the best games ever just adds insult to injury
Dragon age 2 and mass effect 3 problems could largely be put on the short development time from EA. 14 months and 18 months respectively (I think that's accurate). If the games had more time a lot of the systems would have been fleshed out more.
Yeah, there's still some amazing writing in ME3. It's just the compromises they had to make in order to meet their deadline prevented what's still a very good game from becoming the masterpiece it could easily & should've been.
DA2 had the more interesting premise and setup of all of the dragon ages imo, it is my favorite of the trilogy, despite the big flaws.
@@DJDocsVideos say whatever you want, but that multiplayer mode was extremely popular.
@@DJDocsVideos The Multiplayer was the only reason I played ME3 after beating the game the first time. WAY better than Andromeda's MP.
@@Makrillo this so much. I also really like that you’re just some nobody trying to keep your family safe, and the world falling apart around you. It was a very nice and more intimate story than the chosen one savior of DA3
Your comment about making a game about what you're good at making instead of just another triple A release, it reminded me of what Chris Wilson (lead dev of Path of Exile) said when interviewed by Josh Strife Hayes:
"The correct choice, for both the indie, and for the big company, is to make what they're good at. There is a game they have knowledge about. There's a genre that they have a special connection with, that they understand the secret sauce of that, they can judge whether their game is good. They should make that game, or something like it, have an innovation on it, but that's the kind of thing. They shouldn't just say the money is in “play to earn” therefore I'm making a Pokemon-style game that involves - basically comes out with Axie Infinity. Because they may not have even enjoyed that. I mean if they did enjoy it, go for it, they'll probably make a good one. We'll actually have gameplay that people care about. But everything else is a hollow shell, and it's amazing to see all these small projects chasing a fad like that. As well as huge companies chasing a fad like that. Because in both cases, people just think it's the thing to do. And at the end of the day, I feel that the best games come from someone who's actually got passion for making that particular type of game based on their own gaming experiences.
And that's why I mentioned RTS's earlier and how there aren't any good ones. And I desperately want there to be a good RTS. But GGG will never make an RTS, because we do not have the core competency, right? I enjoyed it, shallowly, when I was younger. I have nostalgia, but I was never good enough. No one here's played RTS’s competitively, we couldn't make one that actually did the genre justice. Whereas we all intimately understand action RPGs. And so, we'll make good ones of those for sure."
That is wonderful. Thanks for sharing this quote.
I miss engaging writing in 'AAA/RPG games'. Bioware stories engaged me, until Andromeda, where it seems to me they didn't think good writing was essential to their game.
Following Andromeda up with Anthem, and it's almost like they didn't think writing was needed at all.
I really do miss good writing, and engaging stories in 'AAA/RPG games'.
When a trees branches grow out too far from their base, they will eventually break. A bit to return to roots is needed. A bit sit down is needed. What we do right, what we do wrong. I do hope Dread Wolf helps pull them out the muck they seem to find themselves in atm.
I remember when Dragon Age: Origins came out and was touting itself as a kind of return to form even then. There had been a lot of games trying to mess with the formula by simply adding more stuff to it, more classes, more races, more skills etc. DA:O was a new fantasy universe, but the playable races and classes had been cut back to the standard 3 and it was pulling more from OG Baldur's Gate than Oblivion or WoW. And that seems to be the kind of game where Bioware excelled. But then they immediately had to pivot to make their new grand fantasy setting more focused on spectacle, and the same happened to Mass Effect.
To me it seems clear that EA simply wanted them to make their games appeal to a wider audience than simply RPG fans, so put them in the position where they had to make games outside of their skillset on tighter timeframes. Trying to get them to chase trends of 'Open World' and 'Live Service' instead of setting the standard for CPRGs as they had been doing for a decade at that point. I couldn't get into DA: Inquisition because the whole game just felt like an MMO in the way it controlled and the way the quests worked, and never even tried Anthem as at no point did that game look like it knew what it was supposed to be other than a way to make money through online services. Now that that approach has obviously failed, and EA seems more OK with single player focused games, it'll be interesting to see what Dreadwolf looks like on release.
2:30 - Couldn't agree more. I don't recall the choice and effects of Mass Effect one, but I was blown away by the story. I really didn't pay attention to much else. Because it all was good, I had no complaint, as the story was amazing.
And Dragon Age Origins, is still one of my favorite games of all times. Never before had I wanted to date a witch more. And the humor, world, story, choices, balance, music, art, the game was a master piece.
Just like Witcher 3, my favorite game.
Morrigan is easily Bioware's bes tomance.
of course... they did undermine the literal ashes of andraste in the opening menu of Inquisition, rendering the choice of destroying or saving the ashes redundant in Origins. Replaying the games with the foreknowledge is where choices should be difficult because of the consequences they have. But With bioware sequels , just like telltale games, the choices don't do anything or put a different character in the exact same place another would be, basically a reskin of the same situation with no difference in outcome.
@@soulsearcher9620 Yep, they lost their creativity. The game became more and more a grinding game for a solo player. Boring as hell.
Honestly, my expectations are pretty low from most games nowadays. I'd rather wait for a game to be in a better state post release than get on the disappointing hype train. Every game IMO is in a much better state 3 to 6 months after launch. That gives me time to make a more informed decision.
Most companies use their release as an open beta these days, so that's a good move. Though it generally takes at least a year for it to be in a more polished state (if at all).
I wait a year.
Over the last 2-5 of years I've seen most of the older "gamers" I know, or that I interact with, shifting towards this same frame of mind you're describing.
It's funny, though: now that we have the money to actually buy most games at day one, we got pushed into saving money and get them 6 months to more than a year after release.
Unfortunately the system still has a pletora of younger less experienced buyers feeding the FOMO producing machine, so things aren't changing at all, yet.
But, who knows? Maybe, given enough time, and mostly thanks to the indie scene getting more and more on the forefront of trending lists in all social networks, with their instant hits seemingly bursting out of nowhere, some hope for an evolution is allowed?
We'll just have to wait and see!
"Every" is definitely a stretch. There's a real scenario where the game is the exact same 5 years down the road, as much as it could be patched over 5 months. Also, there's a healthy number of titles that release in very very good states, and aren't broken. That's more common than one would think because we hear LOUDLY about the games that release with tons of issues from the media.
Bioware used to be the gold standard for cRPGs. If it was made by Bioware, I pretty much knew I would enjoy it. What Bioware always did a good job with is making interesting characters, villains and stories.
I think that when they started to taste real profits from Mass Effect and Dragon Age, they grew and ended up with a lot of people in management and executive positions who didn't play RPGs, didn't care about the fan base, only cared about maximizing profits. So, it went from a focus on creating amazing games and stories with deep RPG mechanics to trying to chase whatever contemporary gaming trends seemed to be most popular and profitable.
I can't blame a company for trying to make a lot of money. But, I can blame a company for being the gold standard of a specific game genre and then becoming largely irrelevant and disliked by a significant portion of the gaming community. I can blame them from being one of the best and making unforgettable games to being mediocre at best and making completely forgettable games.
Right now, my eggs are in the Larian, Obsidian, and CDProjekt Red basket. That being said... Obsidian is making a 1st person Pillars of Eternity game... why? It concerns me that they are going down the Bioware path of trying to chase more popular genres and dumb down their cRPG elements. Larian will be working on BG3 related content for a while... and so far, so good. CDProjekt Red biffed it a bit with Cyberpunk 2077... but hopefully learned from their mistakes and will be a bit less ambitious and hyperbolic with their marketing going into the future.
Bioware never made "deep RPG mechanics," they simply used other people's mechanics. As soon as they started making their own, the mechanics became shallow and ever more simplified. They don't make those types of games anymore on the D20 ruleset, they are focused on action gameplay.
@@droe2570 and for the better. Action rpgs have proven themselves time and time again. They are more fun and allow for a more immersed gameplay loop. Obsidian knows what they are doing and have pulled off the action rpg thing several times. New Vegas and Outer Worlds being some of the most played games out.
My eggs are on indie games, there is better games to find in them!
@@noahradford9218 "more fun" is subjective. I enjoy both styles as long as everything else is quality.
@@droe2570 I mean I guess. But the majority find action way more entertaining. I personally despise the slow click here and watch action cool down style. It is just out dated.
I actually played da2 recently, although with a few mods, I really enjoyed the experience for the most part. It was clearly very different than dao, in that instead of using and improving on elements of origins, it went to a completely different direction similar to mass effect 2.
Maybe it's because I just played me2 recently as well, I see much more similarities between me2 and da2 but not dao.
But I do agree that Dao had much more choices and consequences that other games lacked, I still think me2 is fairly linear- and consequences based mostly upon loyalty, ship upgrades rather than actual dialogues. I'm also excited for the new da and me game. But most importantly, all this begs the question, Anthem review when❓
Probably never lol I don't like multiplayer stuff, did want to mention though that DA2 has a great cast of characters regardless of everything else.
The bottom line is that the creative people at Bioware that made the "Bioware Magic" don't work there anymore. It is just any other EA owned studio, it just happens to produce games based on the intellectual property the old Bioware created. Same story with Blizzard really.
Yup. Bioware is just a title now.
When it comes to RPG's they used to be the best imo. Ever since I played KOTOR I was hooked on that formula and I wanted more. It was the type of RPG that only BioWare really provided, it was almost a genre of it's own, the "BioWare style RPG".
If you haven't already, check out Mark Darrah's UA-cam Channel (Old Game Dev Advice) for his post-Bioware thoughts on a lot of these topics. He has a great video explaining the "pull" of publisher culture versus developer culture, and even some specific videos covering the development and release of some of their older titles. I've gained a healthier new perspective on game development listening to his perspectives on a lot of the work that goes into managing people at a studio and other "things that are harder."
Watch mrBTongue's video call "A Tale of Two Companies"
It's literally prophetic
Can't wait for the Bioware review after 100%
This might be it, actually. Whatever is left of Bioware is as much of a husk as anything in Mass Effect
WRT choice and consequence, nothing Obsidian / CDPR has done matches the Krogan Genophage arc. The arc spans 3 connected games, has full AAA production value and has decent number of inter-game variables.
Counter argument: given how massive the choice is (and there's an even more massive one, the Rachni queen arc), it is quite absurd that there is zero gameplay consequence of almost any big Bioware choices, including the above two. Choosing to stab the Blue Suns engineer has bigger gameplay consequence that either of these two choices span over the 3 games.
In FNV for example, quite a few choices can shape your world and gameplay significantly.
Dragon Age Origins almost instantly became one of my favourite games ever, and it still holds a place in my heart. Now I wanna play it again lmao, thanks Mortim!
Dragon Age Origins was the Lord of the Rings of video games, Mass Effect 2 was the Star Wars of video games. I suppose we can suffer through a Hobbit and a Phantom Menace if we get to experience a Return of the King and an Empire Strikes Back.
You are way too young, Warcraft was the Lord of the Rings of video games, and Starcraft was the Star wars of video games. I pity those who never lived in the 90s, later generations games have better graphic, but could never bring the same revolutionary shock that these 2 brought to me.
@@aclock2 fyi, I played all those games when they were released. Warcraft and starcraft are both derivate of the far far far superior warhammer and warhammer 40k respectively. Good day sir.
@@aclock2 all these games have is the shock that comes with technological process. Artistically, mass effect makes StarCraft look like fanfiction and star wars like kids tale.
But BioWare is long gone now, so it doesn’t matter.
@@Squadwin Well said, although I still think episodes IV V and VI are immortal classics
@@aclock2 It is the RTS Lord of the Rings. But if you are not into Real Time Strategy, but RPGs like me, Dragon Age: Origins is the game. And yes, I have played Baldurs Gate 1+2, I know about the late 90s.
Really like the longer videos, thanks!
When I bought my wife a PS4 in like 2016 or so, she was looking for games that had "relationships" in them so I recommended Andromeda which I still have yet to beat. I played the ME trilogy and Origins on release dates and just wasn't feeling Andromeda. She loved it and beat it multiple times and then I recommended DA Inquisition (I put like 90 hours in but never beat it). Same thing, beat it multiple times and loved it. ME trilogy came out and she beat them multiple times and loved them. She liked the combat and the banter in Andromeda more than the trilogy but likes the characters and romances in the trilogy more.
DA Inquisition is her fav of the bunch. I mean she's in FB groups and reads the comics and fanfics of both franchises. She's borderline obsessed. I think, based on how she's talked about them she'd be happy with just more great characters and some great plotlines (and as many romance options as possible). I think we all want to be able to main a non human character in the new ME? Trim the fetch quests by a lot and reign in map sizes a bit. Combat in both games left on pretty high notes as far as accessibility and complexity balances go, so if they tighten those up a bit I think all will be good.
I am really excited to see where both go. I want them to go in pretty different directions. I don't want two different "themes" of the same game (like Inquisition and Andromeda felt like) but I think there are a great number of people who would be okay with that.
Great vid! I must add tho I really liked the ending of ME3, synthesis ending always! :)
I follow the development of DA:D really closely and I'm pretty optimistic that they are on track again. The directors and writers on the team all wrote some of the best parts of Dragon Age and Inquisition. The writer for the incredible Tresspasser DLC in Inquisition is lead writer for DA:D, that alone makes me really hopeful.
@@Quirrel You mean the person who wrote Trespasser, the best story arc out of every Dragon Age game? Yeah especially with them I have no worries at all. That dlc was kino
I have no hope. Since DA:2 I have no hope.
They could have just built on the perfection of DA:O… but no.. they had to make it ‘action’ but having the mages shoot their staffs BEHIND THEIR BACKS!!
Utterly ridiculous.
Trespasser was better but overall DAI had the worst writing in the series. I hope they learned from their mistakes.
@@patinho5589 DAO isn't perfect. It's honestly a game that I feel is despite being great should not be a staple for always repeating and never doing anything different. Inquisition ngl I feel was the best Dragon Age game.
@@mrmoviemanic1 I love DAO. No repetitiveness for me. I started inquisition and could tell it wasn’t going to be the same 5 mins in and stopped.
I would like to add that BioWare had histories of crunch culture that exist before EA acquisition. I have no doubt that EA exacerbate the problem. But the so called "BioWare Magic" was always there.
Oh I love this format idea. excited to listen what you have to say.
I think one of the greatest thing bioware did is creating compelling character that felt like they were roleplaying. Ill explain: in mass effect you have a super though female soldier who read poetry, a human psiker who was from a time they used different type of controlling devices , a spock like avian sniper, etc. Each of them is interesting and shows much love in their creation. I was genuinelly excited to learn more of them. With some games is more like this is my mage, my rogue, etc. One has a save my family quest that gives some loot, so Ill skip the dialog and do the quest to level up and things like that.
BioWare was one of the reasons why I got into the CRPG genre. I was too young to play the older BioWare titles or the sequels, but through them I learned about Obsidian and the CRPG genre, as I was looking for something similar to Dragon Age: Origins for a very long time.
The refined edition of Mass Effect 3 is their best game, imo, when you look at how many narrative threads they had to close and not disappoint the fans at the same time, it's a lot and the game did the job fine, it's a shame the game was released with that pathetic ending.
On another point, ME3 also has enough choices that matter and you can see the effect of in the game:
- You can lose companions, like Tali or Ash/Kaiden, because of combined factors from ME2 and ME3, but mostly ME3;
- Past companions, like Miranda, Grunt, Mordin can die (Mordin almost always);
- The genophage and the future of the Krogan;
- Depending on the number of War Assets, a lot of other companions can die also;
- Even tough it gets cheapen by the Destroy ending that is the only one that allows Sheppard to potentially live, the Geth-Quarian decision is still significant enough;
- Romance is another big one, from the romances that I tried, it felt complete at the end, it felt so cathartic in that final scene when your love interest is besides you and gave me that last emotional line;
In conclusion, even tough the ending is a bit lack luster, the expectations were too high for BioWare to deliver and imo they did the best they could when you take into account the DLC and the refined game, like ME2 when you get all your companions out alive, in ME3 seeing Sheppard potentially living feels like a great achievement.
The overall of story of ME3 is pathetic, I don't know why people single out the ending, when nothing in ME3 made any sense.
@@Jauhl1 Cool, would be so kind to provide some concrete justifications, from my point of view, the story picks off where ME2 dlc ended and it runs it course with no major issues.
@@snyperheadshoot Nothing about ME1 and 2 make sense in light of the "story" in ME3. We learn that the Reapers harvest the cycles by controlling the mass relays through the citadel killing of worlds one by one. That they hide outside the galaxy, because they are "vulnerable" in a fair fight. Which is why they use guile and indoctrination.
This is the premise of ME. In ME3 this utterly ignored the Reapers attacks everywhere at once with overwhelming force. That they don't control the citadel or that the mass relays are open doesn't matter at all. Their master plan in ME1 is shown to be completely unnecessary just as it was unnecessary for them to hide. Making the setup of first games meaningless. The reapers also just harvest "DNA" so leaving worlds to develop by chance instead of cultivating life is also senseless. There is no reason for them to fight with the test tubes.
When Shepard told Andersson he wanted to stay on earth and fight instead of urging the system alliance to rally on Citadel to stop the Reapers from shutting down the galaxy I snapped out of the story.
But it gets worse, we learn just as they attack that a magical artifact is the only thing that can defeat the Reapers, puh imagine Liara hadn't found the plan!! That no one knows how this artifact works or how it will accomplish this and it always failed to work in previous cycles should make anyone with 2 brain cells dismiss it as the stupidest thing they ever heard, yet everyone in the galaxy is ready to bet their species existence on that the magic will work, because the writers are just that brainlessly bad.
And when you are railroaded into setting up this abomination, it turns out that when you succeed it was the Reapers plan all along! Yet rather then laughing at your failure and bottomless idiocy for falling in this obvious trap it turns out by giving your enemy what they want, those guys that's been killing mocking and torturing countless sentients up to now, it turns out they did this out of love and thinks you are cool and better qualified to decide the fate of the galaxy even though you just demonstrated you are the ultimate tool with no idea about what you were doing. Did you dodge a bullet there or what? Yet it really takes everything away from Shepard, he wins because the writers writes him into victory while in fairness he deserved to lose.
Yet somehow people care how this travesty ends.
@@Jauhl1 First of all, I appreciate the long response, I for one, liked that every character, even the minor ones had a finale and it depended upon your choices, as the decisions from other races to come and help, is also depending on that and it shows in the types of endings you can get.
As for the Reapers, we've learned from the first game that the citadel was a tool of theirs, we also learned about the cycles and the last one wiped out the Protheans.
I don't remember everything, but I don't think their purpose was to control how life develops in the galaxy, they were a safeguard against civilizations becoming "too advanced" so their AI would not overwhelm us, so cultivating lives was never the goal, just a means to achieve the reset.
You can argue it doesn't make sense, but you can say that living tens of thousands of years free and being wiped out is better than being controlled from the start.
We learn new things in ME3, about the Protheans and how they were close to defeat them, so I don't know why you are against that, it''s shown that is wise to learn from the past and who else to find out, than Liara, that was her life and that was also a good way to give more purpose to a good character.
As for how did the others accept it, they didn't at first, I loved the premise of ME3 that every leader of each race was forced to toe the line between helping the cause and forsaking their planet or focusing too much on their planet and potentially lose the big war, that's why you go about helping others, so they would come to your aid in the final battle, it's not like there were other solutions, they all saw how outclassed they were by the Reapers and this was the only way to have a chance against them.
It is supposed to be a very long shot at winning, that's what makes it more special, I agree that it was cheapen by the revelation that it was also part of their plan, but as I said, the ending was the worst part of the game.
As for the Reapers being "weak in a straight fight", I don't remember when that was said, but you can say that was true at that point, in ME1, because all the warnings fell on deaf years, the council did not do anything to assist Sheppard until the very end and it is understandable, we, as humans, are very bad at dealing in long terms, especially when we have so much to gain in short term by ignoring the long term consequences, so you can say that they gathered strength, indoctrinate more and that can be seen throughout the game, humans, turians, asari, controlled by the Reapers.
Finally, the "Arrival" dlc gave more foreshadowing of what is to come, even if you can still count a few inaccuracies, ME3 had a lot on its shoulders and, in my opinion, besides the ending, it was very good.
Mass Effect 3 is my fav Mass Effect.
To be fair Bioware has multiple studios, Andromeda was similar to Fallout 76 as in a relatively "inexperienced" team was put in charge of these big ass games and failed to deliver. In Bioware's case the "main team" faired even worse due to management on Anthem though.
Regarding DA4,one of the reasons they took multiplayer out and basically restarted development was actually because of the success of Jedi Fallen Order, EA realized that single player games can actually make decent money. At the end of the day you need a publisher where the bosses actually care about the art itself as well as the numbers, because next to FIFA and Apex, Bioware games are doing f all as far as profit is concerned. Single player RPGs are basically prestige games for publishers, hence the constant need to appeal to mainstream taste to carve out a bigger audience.
ME trilogy sold 14 million units by 2014 according to google, thats 2 years after the 3rd game, even if we factor in that the gaming community grew a lot the past decade, Bioware games were not exactly lighting sales charts on fire back then. Respectable but nowhere near outstanding numbers for 3 AAA titles.
There were no streamers back then either to meme niche genres/games into popularity like they did with Souls and even From Soft evolved to appeal more to casual players (and theres nothing wrong with it) by the time it started to show up the charts. You put all the manhours into all these different outcomes in RPGs and then you see statistics that less than 2% of the ppl playing the game even got to see it and naturally management starts to question whether its worth it in the first place. RPGs are my absolute favorite genre and I wish we got AAA rpgs with the complexity of something like pathfinder wotr but its not feasible until the general populace actually starts buying and supporting these games.
I enjoyed this video, I'd love to see some more on the histories of different game devs
Thanks for a very thoughtful and fair analysis of Bioware's high and low points. In today's bipolar time where people think that you have to either one or the other and that there can be no middle ground, truly objective analysis has become more the exception rather than the rule. The acquisition of Bioware and the change in personnel at that company over the years had to change and influence the culture of the workplace--how could it not? I do think that Bioware now is at the edge of a precipice. It pretty much has to hit Dragon Age: Dreadwolf out of the park otherwise it could well go the way of Maxis, Bullfrog, and Westwood. We'll see in the next year or so whether it succeeds or not (hopefully I'll be around to see that, and, for what it's worth, I hope Bioware does succeed), but we'll see...
My feeling is similar to @GrumpyNorthman, I was a big fan of Bioware, their old games were fantastic, DA, Kotor, Jade empire etc, but after the changes in the company regarding the people who run the projects the developer got worse. It's really bad to realize that many developers are losing their essence.
I heard the expression "BioWare magic" mentioned as a much darker concept then the one referred to in the video, when the topic was crunch time and lack of organization or clearcut goals during development.
Basically it seams this company's directors and managers got lucky with the personnel they had back then, in how those passionate programmers gave their all despite pretty unsustainable working conditions, therefore producing some cult and unique games.
"Luck cannot last forever" though: sounds like an ANaTHEMa doesn't it?
Let's hope things changed for the best, just this once.
Thanks for your videos!
Yeah its been pretty openly stated by past devs that it was essentially just management using weaponized passion
Based on what little snippets we've gotten from the team working on Dreadwolf, I really think they want that return to form as much as we do, since they seem to have really pushed back against the multiplayer/live service elements that EA wanted for the next Dragon Age and-most importantly-seem to have convinced them it was for the best. While it's hard to say whether the game will be good, as long as they get back to doing what they're good at, I suspect Dreadwolf will be great. Since the Mass Effect team is different from the Dragon Age one, traditionally, it's tough to say what things will look like there, but I'd be surprised if they didn't also want to get back to normal.
I remember the talk about the different game structure they had which included things most DragonAge fans wanted, no multi-player, heavier focus on story, no microstransactions etc and then having to scrap all of that because EA pushed for all the wrong gaming elements that do not belong in an rpg just to end up reverting back to the old design but having to start from scratch.... The DA4 team had it rough I totally get why it will probably take almost an entire decade after DAI to release dreadwolf. Here is hope
Perhaps as well, the DA4 team got a bit fed-up of being shackled with the reputation of a "pirate ship" as I once read the team being described as. But this was of the Inquisition team, and that was nearly a decade ago now; that team has definitely changed and I get the impression that the DA4 team really wants their own niche and wants to prove themselves. Like if they "save" modern BioWare, they'll be flipping legends!
I really do appreciate your level headed approach to discussing the company's recent mistakes; with other people the subject seems to always devolve into a shitslinging match. I'm not gonna rest my hopes on Dreadwolf or ME5 changing my life or anything, but reading more news on the technical side lately definitely has me interested to see what they pull off with them.
I've been employed at large corporations that made easily identifiable mistakes whilst having no power to do anything but deal with the fallout. I understand that many times employees at companies like this are just doing the best they can with the decisions that were forced onto them, and there is a way to offer criticism without being an asshole about it.
Nice to come across a levelheaded creator with actual knowledge of games.
Subscribed
Given that most of the Bioware staff quit while creating DA4, after putting up with EA for over a decade prior to that, I expect DA4 to be an absolute disaster. I'll wait for the review: specifically you're review, because you're the only one who pointed out that DAI had this ridiculous MMO grind towards the end, which is what lead me to get bored and quit playing it.
Dude you play an rpg. Of course it's grindy. The game is awesome.
Hmm, heard that from some critiques as well. But those are not reviews I guess.
@@johnpantag472 is this a joke?
Or has grind become so normalized that it is seen as an essential part of rpgs?
There are so many games, especially crpgs which naturally increase your level by giving you cool and interesting side quests instead of having you grind like it's a fucking job.
@@michimatsch5862 you mean the grind that existed since the 80's? That JUST recently started to slowly fade away?
@@michimatsch5862 you can complete the game easily by just going through the main quests. Power is the only grind and yes it is normalized. It always was. And it's not that big of a grind. I'm sorry that your noob ass can't enjoy a grindy game which isn't even grindy. How many hours you think it takes huh? It took me only 4 hours to finish hinterlands storm coast and follow mire. Everything 100%. Idk from where you got that mindset but it's fucking dump. These are games that last at least 40 to 50 hours. The beginning levels are bad but the later ones are cool. Don't like it don't playing tf you expect to accomplish? You are in the minority so that means that the next da game will be this way too.
After Andromeda, i feel af though they have gone creatively bankrupt.
They had the opportunity to imagine a new galaxy and came up with humanoids as allies and humanoids as enemies.
@@miceatah9359 I have, and what he said is 100% true. At least Star Trek had the excuse of costume budgets for making all the aliens look human. Bioware just has no imagination.
"My face is tired." Explains that whole game.
I'd say that happened after Mass Effect 2, if not Dragon Age Origins.
Something the video addressed not enough, I think, is that their writing is serviceable, and they know how to present it better than many. But the structure and style are much the same each and every time.
I remember back when Mass Effect 1 was new, somebody made a chart that pointed out the similarities. The PC always being chosen (or marked, in Shepard's case), There being a fake-out villain, the archetypes of NPCs and party members personalities, etc.
So you expected them to come up with an entirely new loreset for the 4th game?
Games 1,2, and 3 were all based off of an existing world with established lore.
But they were supposed to basically recreate that for their 4th game?
@@ReaperCet Considering the huge gap in years between ME3 and Andromeda, I don't think that's unreasonable. It wasn't called Mass Effect 4, it was called Andromeda. That means it could've been a new series in the Mass Effect universe if it hadn't bombed. The actual release of Andromeda was a major disappointment. Not just for the bugs, but the writing and characters.
man your review style reminds me SO MUCH of a really old youtube channel that used to do reviews... they had a similar pacing and tone and now its been SO LONG i cant remember what they were called.
CGR? i remember they used a squirrel as a sort of logo/mascot?
they closed up shop and i have never fully forgotten them...
Doesn't ring any bells, I took some inspiration from a variety of people I watched myself though
The Mission and Zalbar dark side ending in KOTOR always haunts me when i think about all the bioware games finality of evil choices. They write beautiful companion stories and wrap them up in multiple ways, though you are completely correct that most choices are purey a one off dopamine hit that dont carry on past the current story. There are exceptions via save games carrying over to actual sequels but for the most part its like reading a good book, closing it and sharing your stories with friends.
Just wanted to say that I've been subbed for a few months now, and I really like how chill your videos are. Always relaxing to listen to and appreciate all the work you put in to keep them coming. Keep it up and hope you're doing well ! :)
So what games specifically do you feel implements choice and consequence really well (BioWare or not)?
Nice video as always. DAO will always be my Top 5 favorite game. I’m definitely going to play dreadwolf and I just hope it could be good enough for me to finish it
Thank you for the analysis!
I love their universes... Their games are one of my favourites and I still want to believe they can still release great games. That I will laugh and cry again playing them.
I love BioWare’s older titles and hope they can make a comeback!
KOTOR was my first bioware game. I experienced nothing like it at the time. So many good memories... what an amazing game and story. Will never forget getting excited as a young lad from shagging Bastilla.
Kotor 1, Baldur's Gate 1 and NWN 1 did both too which was actually from Bioware. In BG1 it just happens through the quests instead of the ending.
i do like watching Mark Darrah's channel cause he explains a lot of information that makes sense on to how BioWare works on games, etc.
great video btw!
Thanks, watched a couple of yours recently actually, big fan of the Dragon Age lore and setting. Hope the channel keeps growing for you!
@@MortismalGaming Oh wow! Thank you so much! ❤️
anthem had serious potential, had they followed through and stuck to the roadmap, i think it would have ended up a pretty badass game
In terms of bioware and decisions, don't forget Star Wars the Old Republic. While it is primarily an MMO, the original single player narratives absolutely hold up as engaging, character driven stories with plenty of decisions to make.
The Sith Warrior story is up there in my favourite video game stories ever.
I agree. The Bioware older people like me remember doesn't exist anymore, it is gone with the old developers that probably left the company years ago. That and being forced to release titles to satisfy EA's view of what Bioware should release. Fortunately the world keeps going around and new developers appear, such is the way of life.
Spot on man, well done.
Hi Mortym. Really enjoyed the video. I was curious as to what game was shown at 7:29. ?
That is Neverwinter Nights
I would love to see them do multiplayer the way divinity 2 original sin does. One person has the save file and a friend can join their game and take over one of your characters and also have dialogue options. That's it - it seems boring but it's a great way to experience the game with a friend or loved one.
"but admittedly, the perspective of a guy who spends hours talking to himself every day into a microphone." lol
Your videos are great, your presentation style and thumbnails are all very well done, and you frequently publish content on some of my favorite games of all time, really glad I found your channel and look forward to seeing much more! Thanks!
I really really enjoyed the moment to moment gameplay of Anthem, fighting felt great. flying was fantastic. the game looked amazing. But every surrounding system was bad. The story, the loot loop, the updates... the monetization.. all bad
Yeah, it's kind of really obvious the idea for what the game should be only came together when they released that first trailer. So by release, they just barely managed to make the core gameplay of the game, while everything else was practically the first draft, haphazardly thrown together. Because of this I was curious about the Anthem 2.0 or Next or what they called it, for the potential to have them build solid game around that core idea, but alas, that got canned.
That's exactly how I feel about the game. Each javelin felt unique and the combat is my favorite of any game.
Plus the armor customization is awesome too! Being able to choose the material (has any other game done that?) and color really made each look feel unique. I wish the pieces themselves weren't behind a pay wall though.
What could have been...
Hey, where is the thumbnail art from? Looks epic.
An art book bioware put out I believe
Fantastic video my friend, i certainly agree bioware needs to take a step back and remember what made their games beloved in the first place.
However, i wanted to let you know throughout this video i can hear (what i assume to be) you hitting your desk while talking, im not trying to be picky but it was slightly distracting, and maybe you didnt know that that was audible.
Earned a new sub though brother!
I was tapping a pen a bit too close the mic, and I didn't notice it was audible until it was too late. Attending the wedding of one of my brothers this weekend so I was doing quick editing to have content up through Tuesday.
What is worry some is Bioware has lost a couple long term key team members, people who was there since the 90s and (I may be wrong) Bioware doesn't have any of their original creators anymore. So the new Mass Effect and Dragon age games may not have the same "Magic" as the older one. But then again they may be amazing also.
Pretty accurate take on the matter, I think Bioware was trying to branch out honestly just to make more money, which is fine, but i think a better approach would be trying those things on a new ip, (i´m pretty sure they´ve learned a lot of things with Anthem), not on your main franchises and expect the players to like it just because is a sequel of a game they loved. Like you said, hopefully DA Dreadwolf means going back to the roots and be a true sequel of DAO.
I agree. But I don't want Dreadwolf to go back to DAO, I want it to expand on what we have from all three games. DAO is not perfect and frankly to keep it back to that game is just fanservice at this point.
I saw your ME: A after 100% video and what stood out the most to me both there and here is the observation that development was affected by balancing around multiplayer which takes a lot of player agency RPG aspects that we’ve come to expect out of BioWare (which is definitely an EA expectation of BioWare ever since ME3). Now this implementation order from EA that came from a time where EA tried to make all of their developers do that, to the detriment of a lot of single player IPs (notably Dead Space). Given Anthem’s failure, it’s going to be interesting to see if multiplayer is still going to be required for future BioWare titles and how it can adversely affect their development cycles.
Well we know the multiplayer portion of the upcoming Dreadwolf was actually scrapped.
The first game I played of theirs was MDK 2. Also Dragon Age Origins came out in 2009 I remember that day well as I called in work sick, picked up Dragon Age, picked up a subway, went home and locked myself in that weekend. Good time.
Bioware didn't make MDK 2, but Shiny (that was closed in 2007).
@@n1ng3n Bioware developed it as shiny didn't want to make another one.
@@Jackal2099 Yeah you are right i make a mistake.
I want to add that Bioware during the development of DAI, MEA and Anthem didn't share any technologies regarding frostbite. A lot of the similarities of the games come down to more coincidence. The different teams at Bioware are fairly isolated from each other. Just thought that would be an interesting point.
Also I do recommend that you check Old Game Dev Advice. The guy who runs it was the executive producer for the Dragon Age games and the late part of Anthem.
Anthem is lacking in a lot of ways, but I do think it's a beautiful world with a lot of interesting lore and backstory - and probably the best Iron Man simulator I've ever played.
I appreciate how tempered and reasonable your take is. As someone who grew up on playing DA: O and the Mass Effect trilogy on my dusty ass PS3, their "shift" really sucked for me, but it was and is always important to remember people worked their ass off to make this game.
I get being upset at lost money, or like you were "deceived", but there are so many great games you could be playing instead of spewing vitriol, you know?
What are some of the awesome choices and consequences in Mass Effect 2? Can't recall any, unless "assign wrong person at the end of the game and they will die" falls under that category.
They should go back to their roots and make games similar to Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.
Because I still think that those are their best RPG games they've ever made.
Dragon Age, Mass Effect and KOTOR series are good, don't get me wrong, but for me their Golden Age was when they made those classic isometric RPGs that I mentioned.
Can you rank all the Bioware games from worst to best in a future video? Curios on your opinions on them.
I thought Mass effect 3 was incredible! The characters, the cinamatography, the tone of utter hopelessness! And actually seeing that my choices in ME1 and ME2 actually mattered to the war effort and accumulating allies against the reapers. I found the climax in ME3 to be gripping and endearing and very satisfying! (Note, I played through on LE, so all the DLC was woven in on my first experience).
FYI, I loved Inquisition. Again, great writing and characters.
DA2 was somewhat lackluster. But having Anders and Fenris in my party really made it fun with the banter. Both outstanding characters!
Great video. Mass Effect 1 and 2 are my favorite games and I would really really like to see a return to form taking the best parts of all the games before. Even ME: Andromeda has some good points. It's combat system was really fun. I hope they are given the time they need to make some great games and return to prominence with games that are must play experiences.
I always noticed the roles that BioWare had narratively set up in their games, and I generally like it just fine. Interestingly though, in Mass Effect, especially the first one, I would argue that the role your character plays is not so much “Commander Shepard” though that’s true through the trilogy, obviously. But I would say the role you play is moreso the “first human Spectre”, the peak of humanity in the galactic community. But what makes ME2 so cool is that now you’re flipping the script and your not a paragon of humanity but now you affiliate with a questionable faction, and it makes your role in the galaxy even more interesting. Rather than the obvious hero of the story, you are instead questioned by your friends, even uncomfortable with your own affiliations. It’s good stuff.
Obsidian next?
Couple more titles I need to check out of theirs first, but probably
Bioware in a nutshell: over time, world building go down, gameplay go up.
But all in all, no one makes RPGs like bioware.
DA4 is make or break.
I’ve just started an andromeda re run. I don’t hate it. So far so good to be fair. Nice looking game for sure
I don't know much about video game development, but it seems that it's really a huge undertaking to make any game click, nevermind an ambitious AAA RPG. When I think about production, writing, acting, integrating new systems with a publisher hovering over devs heads and demanding alterations, it seems like a miracle that we even got some of those games in the first place.
I also feel like marketing isn't doing devs too many favours as it makes it impossible for final product to live up to the hype (see Cyberpunk). Hence, personally, I'm willing to cut devs some slack for simplifying stuff or minor bugs as long as I have a good time. I even was happy when I finished ME3 when it came out- sure the endings were bad, but the journey was quite awesome
My favorite Bioware titles: Dragon Age Origins, Mass Effect 2 and Neverwinter Nights. NWN especially has its problems, but playing it through various modules with a friend was amazing.
I agree with you on all points. The choice and consequence mostly just changed a few lines of dialogue. I would simply add that if DaD fails, we won't see another Mass Effect game. From a corporate perspective, EA will shudder the studio.
One important thing to note is that Andromeda wasn't developed by "main" Bioware studio. As far as I remember before Andromeda this studio only did some support stuff like dlc and multiplayer.
Bioware used to be my favorite studio. Im not really sure where they stand now, Ill just have to wait and see how ME and DA turn out. Never even played anthem, or the star wars MMO though. I was excited to play the KOTOR remake, but it sounds like thats in some trouble now too lol.
I grew up with DA and ME so those stories always held a big place in my heart, so always looked more favorably on them than they actually were. Youre assesment is pretty spot on and its a shame they couldnt keep getting the story AND the companions great in their games but as people always say the devs that worked on their best work are no longer there. They'll need new young great talent to bring the spark back. Lets raise a toast and hope DA4 is at least a GOOD game. Always appreciate the honest and insightful commentary mortis, may you wander in wisdom my friend
I think Bioware would love for their legacy to be choice and consequence, but ultimately it will be for world building, companions and romances. Mass Effect built on Baldur's Gate with you taking a singular character on a real journey across multiple games. The destination many not have lived up to expectations but the journey getting there is still like none other.
Dragons Age Origins: My personal favourite. I usually don´t care very much about remasters & remakes....but I would love to see this game one more time on the new consoles.
Possibly I missed it - but ME3 Multiplayer was surprisingly awesome. It wasn't a big open world collectathon - it was class based magic Left 4 dead or (possibly more accurately) a proto-Vermintide.
My distrust for bioware started at DA2 tbh; it was the first time a bioware game I played clearly showed it was a product rather than a passion project that coincidentally made money.
It was a blatant cashgrab; I'm pretty sure the EA acquisition didn't do them any favors in the creative sense.
it's also telling how much turnover there is in the veterans of the company in the years since the acquisition.
Now I'm not going to say that everything since DA2 has been bad, but I will say that a lot more of what I like to call triple a lifelessness has crept into their games since EA happened
Agree with much of what you said, with the only major difference of opinion being on ME3 (it was my favorite chapter of the series). Kudos for referring to Jade Empire, but I am surprised that you didn't refer to Knights of the Old Republic more, as I think that game was the one that put them onto the 'recipe' for their later successes with Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Also agree that they need to go back to that formula.
All good things come to an end, and bioware had a good run. I really doubt they will cutback on the nonsense and streamline a game to DA: O lvl awesomeness but maybe im wrong.
Anthem didnt have a good story or any memorable side characters, but i did have a lot of fun playing it. The jetpack felt so good to use, the world was full of vibrant landscapes, and blowing up your enemies with giant explosions was a blast. I had a lot of fun for about 15 hours, before that wasnt enough to keep me playing. I do have fond memories of it though
Back in the day Bioware made all my favorite games. The Baldur's Gate games are still my absolute favorite and are still in my regular play rotation. I would get excited every new game announcement. I recall the thrill with Dragon Age Origins the first time the load screen popped up. Playing Jade Empire on release day. I bought an xbox so I could play Mass Effect when it released. Bioware games used to be an instant preorder for me. I have seen the change over the years and I still enjoy all their games I own. ( never purchased Anthem, wtf were they thinking :)) looking forward to their next Dragon Age and Mass Effect game but not buying them until I see reviews.
*Grabs a pitchfork and torches and joins a mob*
i must be the kind of gamer that just plays the game for what it is. ME1 was my favorite but i had no problems w/ 2 or 3. i was fine with the endings of 3. actually, i loved the franchise as a whole. i played it first recently w/ the legendary edition and had an absolute blast!
So EA killed Bioware
whatever lives under that name now (since DAO/ME2 release) is the shell of the former self
And nearly every other good developer they've ever acquired
Yes but bioware killed themselves with their lack of proper planning for andromeda and anthem and the exodus of talent
Good recap with valid opinions. However, I think you didn't focus enough on the true classics / formative years of Bioware. Maybe I'm just too old but games likes Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, KOTOR and Neverwinter Nights was really what won me over to RPGs and that is something they need credit for
I've never clicked on a video faster lol. Let's go.
Largely on point, and as someone who was an active participant on the then BioWare forums during the development of Dragon Age: Origins, i can add one more thing: the reason why that game turned out the way it did, was in no small matter because of the way the devs took all of out feedback and actively participated in the discussions we used to have. Alas....those days may be gone for good.
You hit the nail on its head here. Bioware turned away from their iconic storytelling, characters and rpg towards an mmo experience, because that was the popular thing. They tried to jump on that wagon and it failed, plus they lost many hardcore fans and tarnished their reputation as a company that releases quality games. Their next titles, ME 4 and the new Dragon Age, need to have that quality and the thing that made Bioware such a prestigious company to begin with, good story, characters etc.
Interesting perspective. My interpretation of your view is that ME:A and Anthem failed due to Bioware trying to branch out into something different, specifically "open-world, collectathons". I think that's only a part of it - I do believe that the success of open world games (Skyrim/FO4) and microtransaction multiplayer games (Destiny/PUBG) led EA and Bioware to believe that was the way to maximize profits. I think that's how we got ME:A (open world) and Anthem (multiplayer). Skyrim/FO3/4 have uninteresting companions and the side quests/main story suck - the hook for those games is slowly building the power of your player character through spells/abilities/weapons/armor, etc. ME:A is not that. ME:A was a narrative-focused game with boring side/fetch quests, boring companions/NPCs/villain and totally uninteresting main story. How did Bioware, well known for great world building, engrossing companions/NPCs/villain, choice-driven narrative and engaging main story fail doing it in ME:A? I don't know but that's where they failed - maybe too much focus was on open world and combat improvements and not on what they used to do so well? I don't know why Anthem failed since I didn't play it or Destiny or PUBG.
I agree with your views on what happened to Bioware. I think that if Bioware doesn't return to what made the company great (an RPG game with a deep story) and knock it out of the park with Dragon Age Dread Wolf, they may never recover. I recently heard that DA Dread Wolf was intended to be an MMO of sorts, but after Anthem they dropped that plan and decided to return to the single player format. That's why they are so behind in development. They kinda had to start over. Although I hate having to wait longer for the game, I'm glad they chose to go back to the single player game design. Truth is if it had been an MMO I wouldn't be buying it. I got burned out on MMO's 15 years ago and despise them now.
Andomeda technically wasn't done by main Bioware studio but by freshly aquired and renamed studio. Listening to development history im surprised it ended up as good as it did.