Think about a full orchestra. All of those instruments are playing their full range of frequencies and when it’s done right, it sounds completely AMAZING. A lot of the blend happens in writing the parts, how the instruments are arranged, what they’re all playing and when. When you hear stems from famously mixed songs, they don’t sound like they’ve been filtered into a small frequency range. They sound balanced and full. It’s a finesse game, not Tetris.
Orchestral instruments are designed to work together. The arrangement is also designed that way. The same can be said with most 20th century rock and roll: drums,bass, guitar and vocals. Contemporary music contains lots of synthesized and sampled sounds that don't conform to the expectations you'd have with standardized instruments.
Best on the Tube. I think since 808 culture has taken over many mix engineers are very tunnel vision when it comes to mixing. It’s become less musical and more technical. You do an awesome job of keeping things in perspective and injecting life back into mixing. Thanks.
it's because talking technical bullshit is easy, only people who know the real stuff can question the suggestion which other inexperienced producers/mixers will simply believe becoz it sounds 'technically right' on the surface level. Even i don't believe whatever David says just like that, blindly. I trust him because I've found truth in what he says.
@@Gang-25j Yeah, the only thing that's new is people cutting from 200 down-ward to 'make space for the bass,' which is just kind of silly. But most mixing boards have a built in highpass for a reason. Removing very deep sub rumble is just an efficient thing to do.
I used to watch your content so long ago when I knew nothing and it's so pleasant to be able to understand everything you say in videos now after so many years. This is one of the most fulfilling careers ever in my opinion. Loving the content!
Been mixing for several years, but I still wasn't satisfied with my mixes. And when I compared them with other mixes, I could sense that I'm doing something wrong over and over. One of those is exactly the thing that you explained in this video - "Mixing is not like a puzzle". After hearing that and seeing the rest of the video it immediately cleared up a lot of my misconceptions, including harshly cutting out frequencies to "make space" for other things. Thank you a lot for this!
I almost made this mistake on my recent project when I forgot that I had 808 on stereo because I listen to some of these youtube producers, but I learned my lesson after some time of struggling. Thanks
I’ve never heard anyone explain it this way. They always tell you carve, cut all low mids on instruments to make room and get rid of ALL low end energy robbing of loudness. Thanks for your rational insight on that. Maybe that’s why my mixes get thin. I just have to learn how to get rid of muddiness.
I worked with the owner of a Latin music orchestra as a FOH sound tech and stage rigger, he once reprimanded me about cutting below 50Hz on a performance we had because to me it was normal and at the time I did it so they wouldn't couple the stage monitors with the mics. "Keep things simple, fix it, never subtract." That's what he said. He was right and I could see it for myself.
@@Gang-25j actually yes, you can review the FFT (Fast Fourier Transformación) EQs, Reaper have 1 on the stock plugins, literally you can substract the noise or sound you want, but not expect the best of it.
The analyzer is much appreciated. Really helps to see AND hear exactly what you are talking about. I made the low cut mistake when I first started producing years ago. It never gave me a good mix. Sure, I could mix louder but it was a very unsatisfying sound. I'm not sure why so many people have the idea these days that bass of all things is not important anymore. It's very tempting to use cut-&-paste mixing techniques, because it does make things a lot easier but I can say from experience, a natural sounding mix is always more satisfying in the long run. Unless you have mad skill or amazing luck in your instrument choices, it takes a lot of effort to get that natural sound. I think one of the most surprisingly satisfying things I've learned over the past few years was instrument choice. I used to get lucky a lot but now I more actively think about instruments before I even record anything. A sign that your channel is a good influence on people, even if they don't take your classes.
You my friend are are learning the art of composition. When a piece is properly composed and recorded, it practically mixes itself. I’ve been a working engineer since before David was born. I learn from him every week.
Spectrum analyzers don’t help you HEAR anything. No one listening to a recording is using their eyes and watching a computer monitor (or if they are they aren’t focused on the music). And neither are you when you are pretending to mix music. Music is meant to be HEARD and FELT. I’m so glad I’m not some Ding dong trying to learn music and audio mixing on UA-cam. But good luck to all. The truly gifted will find a way through this mess
Funny how at the same time people are eager to reduce everything about mixing & mastering to a strict set of rules (do this, this, and that) which MUST work on every single track in every single genre, and at the same time go: "there are no rules" 🤣
Thank you so much for this video David. Both the "cutting lows from the sides" and "mixing is a puzzle" issues are things that I have been thinking about for a while. Hearing the lows in the sides of big name tracks was really helpful. Nice one.
You speak wisdom my friend. Much respect. So much misinformation online and even in magazines. People just make $hit up. Anyone can start a UA-cam channel and go nuts. As fas I am concerned, the best records were made in the 70s and 80s; no mid/side, no resonance suppression, no fancy multiband compression. If it was good enough for them, it’s good enough for us. Good ears, and a well balanced mix go a long way in making a classic master.
100% agree!!!!! exception.... Cutting vinyl (and it still doesn't necessarily need to be to drastic if you know what you are doing)... The presence of low end In the sides is often part of a BIG SOUND!.... to my ears.
I made a surprising discovery about cutting low end in general. I recorded some tracks, only voice and acoustic guitar (Dreadnought). Everyone said „cut the lows, the Dreadnoughts are awful to record“. So I started cutting the lows step by step and when I tried to master, I was wondering why everything sounded a bit too cold and harsh. After some time, I found your channel and I went back the raw tracks with almost no processing. I did a test and played them through my MIXDREAM, added some Stereo width, centered the vocals and it sounded so much better 😀. Day and night difference to me. Now, I can start to begin mixing again with a much deeper understanding. Thanks David. PS And when I do some side chain, I know what to do and what not to do.
Great video, as always. You really know how to not only explain these concepts in a simple but nuanced way but also you choose good topics, issues, and questions that are going to be useful and how to frame thinking about them. Thanks, man.
Love this, we live in an era where we're so lucky to have mid side separation and we tend to abuse it like adding extra sides info or cutting when no needed. We're so lucky to have lush vst reverbs and people tend to cut sides below around 300hz if not 400... mid side is a beutiful thing but has to be used more like the cheery on top of the cake
I did this today and the power from the bass was gone and became basic after I cut the side lows ! I went back and added it ! Thanks from confirming this ! Especially if making a song at -8 lufs!
@@mixbustv Agreed! I don't cut lows on the sides when mastering for vinyl. I would rather rely on the expertise of the vinyl cutting engineer to exercise their best judgement as to whether or not to apply an elliptical filter as needed. After all, they are the ones who create the test pressing.
From 12:30 I needed to hear this today. Worried about my rumble as I recorded my guitars, clarinet and saxophone lines and was trying to do things in a formulaic way instead of respecting that this track is its own thing and working with it than against it. I think I need to trust my classical composition training instead of throwing it all to the wind on the words of your average UA-cam "just do this one trick to get amazing mixes" producer
Mid side master processing is a very difficult and advanced techniques, done with small gentle cuts and boosts. This is done to enhance the stereo image. However, again you have to know exactly what you're doing or you'll just create phase problems.
You're taking about doing or not doing a mid side cut on the whole mix..not about trimming w high pass or low shelf individual instruments? I would assume a lot of the tunes you went through had trimming done to some degree on individual tracks or group busses while mixing. That's why the low energy on sides isn't as loud in final mix as center.
Thanks for explaining so well. I used to cut a lot lows because a lot resources tell you that, but since quite a time i began to experiment with the lows and noticed that there is so much musical power that I can not cut out any more:)
ARRANGEMENT is a puzzle. Every part needs to occupy its own space. You can't have, like, four melodies going simultaneously, so fitting each part into its own "space", both timing and frequency-wise, is a crucial part of writing and producing songs. If that's not done well, the mixing process isn't going to make any difference.
Eh, not really. You can definitely have multiple melodies going, you can also have multiple counter-melodies going at the same time. Just like you have multiple vocals, multiple guitars, etc.. You wouldn't have two snares or two kicks doing different groves but then again, if they fit..
Hi David, fantastic video. What are your thoughts on removing sub information from the sides during mastering in electronic genres (such as psychedelic trance) where preserving the phase relationship between kick and bass even when collapsed to mono is critical to the desired effect?
@@mixbustv Maybe I misunderstood, I thought your video was more about some people cutting the sub info from the side in order to gain infinitesimal headroom, but losing the balls of the mix in the process. I was commenting on the benefits of removing the subs from the sides at the mastering stage in order to minimise phase cancellations when it's collapsed to mono. Specifically in genres where a clean kick and bass phase relationship is important.
@@ajja The way I look at it is like this... solo the sides below 60 and then solo the mids below 60. If you can hear massive thumping sub bass in the sides, sure that's probably not good... but that's not what you will hear in the tracks in the video. I guess it could seem subtle, but that little bit of stereo width in the bottom definitely adds balls and stereo image, even if it's not the full sub bass or kick. Long story short, compare the sides and mids on all frequencies to major releases... that should tell you what you should be doing.
Great vid - I find I can cut lows for clarity, but then the lack of conflicting frequencies then changes the feel of the music entirely, as the clashes (accidental, from throwing sounds together and seeing what sticks, from the production / artistic perspective) are then removed, which is often the 'magic' or soul that is good about the music in the first place.
Thank you, you just confirmed my recent mixing and mastering experience where I brought up the all the lows and even some low-mid in the sides to make it sound fuller and balanced. Tuning the kick drum and bass instrument in the mix is how I make enough "space" for each and hear/feel them enough in the mix. Some saturation or exciter helps.
I wish I didn't have to figure this out on my own a few years back... so many people putting out bad advice like they know what they're talking about. Btw, that ISOL8 plugin has taught me so much through using it to do tests like the one in this video... highly recommended.
My monitors only really start (+/- 2dB) at 50 Hz, yet I am hearing very much here. To me that sounds like more than just the sub 35Hz information, even if we add the little slope that cuts some of the frequencies up to 60 Hz or whatever it is. So I'm confused by that demonstration. However I don't cut the lows on the sides by default anyway - and if I do, I usually prefer to do it on specific instruments. When I do it on a whole mix, it usually is because the mix has issues and the kick actually gets washy because of a bass or 808 that's loud with tons of side-info. However I LOVE using mid/side eqs, hell, mid/side in general.. so I'll watch that other video next.
Mid/Side feels like a problem solver or even a creative tool at first glance, but ultimately it is highly unnecessary in my honest opinion. Once you've sort of improved on your mixing journey, you'll really start to understand the term K.I.S.S. It's really true and when you've mixed something well, everything will fall into the right context and place without all the crazy mid/side moves. This is speaking even from a production/sound design point of view.
_"Cut the low frequencies on the sides. Trust me, a guy who mixes on headphones and can't hear this shit anyway"_ Yes that hyper-specific thing with potentially extreme phase consequences is absolutely necessary to get a good mix. You absolutely need that 0.1db of headroom to make things louder. You couldn't possibly just turn down your 2bus and do the exact same thing. Wait, aren't the guys who believe this garbage the same people who think the loudness war is over? Why do they care about loudness when they think Spotify is going to turn things down for them? _It's like they don't actually know what they're doing_
One of my noob discoveries was lo cut....then in another phase I discovered it again as a problem. While useful, I was binding the horse behind the wagon. And actually I see this a lot with videos that are made by home producers and not professionals. Because many, and me to, producing electronic music. And here is where i was binding the horse behind the wagon. Think about Beethoven, when he lost his hearing he still composed. He knew where to place the instruments. That kind of is obscured when you produce electronic and you see sampled instruments as part of the electronic music. But it starts with composition, where is this instrument, or designed sound sitting in the mix. Now I don't use channel strips, first gainstage, volume panning and the slowly adding eq compression, channel strips. But far far less. Many tracks I run through my outboard gear. Doing far less eq ing, lo cutting, compressing. If design sounds as synth addict, before I make a song, I know put much more work in the composition to begin win with. When you produce home, there's always overlap. But try to seperate sound design, composition, mixing. Mixing, think volume panning first...
What about Reese bases? Should I mono the sub or should I leave the sub wide. Usually the entire synth all the way down to the lowest fundamental is massively stereo. Genuinely curious though I should do some experimenting. Usually I use ozone imager to mono the lowest fundamental and then use a multi band compressor to make that fundamental as consistent in volume as possible.
The Reeses power is in its phasy stereoness. Definitely leave the sides in. BUT. Reese's are sometimes made using phase shift, so fold your Reese into mono and see if it disappears, if it does choose another Reese that doesn't.
@@fernandomanqueo8683 a pure soundwave is perfectly in phase so it doesn't matter if it's mono or stereo as the exact information is coming through both speakers, which is what mono really is anyway.
I'm so happy I found this video as yeah I hate modern music sounds so sterile...there is more technical stuff in a mix than feelings and vibe ...There are plenty of records out there that they would never be broadcasted as per "modern mix/master standards". They are so called bad mixes but they are just amazing tunes full of "accidents" but making a great atmosphere in the end when u listen to... I really hate we are putting too much attention to "stupid rules". Music no matter how well is mixed has to trigger certain emotions even if there is STH done to the mix that modern standards don't accept..and I really don't care if it was recorded in the garage or studio for 1000000000$ as far as I like it and it touches my heart...there were so many demos sounded better than "studio production" that killed the vibe ...been fighting with many music engineers and gurus ...oh u don't do that this is not they way we do ...wtf!
If the examples are mastered tracks wouldn't they add the sides back with some stereo widening in the mastering stage so thats the reasoning for the sides info being there. I thought people were talking about moving some sides in the mixing stage for the kick, 809, sub etc. Correct me if Im wrong, thanks
question: Lets say that kick and bass are in mono. Leaving sub frequencies of other sounds (samples for example) only in sides wouldn´t affect the phase of kick and bass? tnx and nice videos!
No it won't. Direct phase relation only happens with mult (copying your bass or kick and doing parallel processing) or multi-mic'd sources (i.e. 2 mic on a kick or snare or bass cab etc..). Everything else falls into masking which COULD include minor and in 99% of cases totally insignificant phase inter-play between instruments but that's.. mixing and in the particular example you gave, just no.
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Think about a full orchestra. All of those instruments are playing their full range of frequencies and when it’s done right, it sounds completely AMAZING. A lot of the blend happens in writing the parts, how the instruments are arranged, what they’re all playing and when. When you hear stems from famously mixed songs, they don’t sound like they’ve been filtered into a small frequency range. They sound balanced and full. It’s a finesse game, not Tetris.
Yep!
PERFERCT!
Orchestral instruments are designed to work together. The arrangement is also designed that way. The same can be said with most 20th century rock and roll: drums,bass, guitar and vocals. Contemporary music contains lots of synthesized and sampled sounds that don't conform to the expectations you'd have with standardized instruments.
Best on the Tube. I think since 808 culture has taken over many mix engineers are very tunnel vision when it comes to mixing. It’s become less musical and more technical. You do an awesome job of keeping things in perspective and injecting life back into mixing. Thanks.
Indeed. I've noticed a lot of overly technical thinking in the music world in general. Paint by numbers music production.
it's because talking technical bullshit is easy, only people who know the real stuff can question the suggestion which other inexperienced producers/mixers will simply believe becoz it sounds 'technically right' on the surface level.
Even i don't believe whatever David says just like that, blindly. I trust him because I've found truth in what he says.
second this
They’ve been talking cutting lows since waaaaay back in the days, don’t act like this is something new that just started in the last 10 plus yrs
@@Gang-25j Yeah, the only thing that's new is people cutting from 200 down-ward to 'make space for the bass,' which is just kind of silly. But most mixing boards have a built in highpass for a reason. Removing very deep sub rumble is just an efficient thing to do.
I used to watch your content so long ago when I knew nothing and it's so pleasant to be able to understand everything you say in videos now after so many years. This is one of the most fulfilling careers ever in my opinion. Loving the content!
Been mixing for several years, but I still wasn't satisfied with my mixes. And when I compared them with other mixes, I could sense that I'm doing something wrong over and over. One of those is exactly the thing that you explained in this video - "Mixing is not like a puzzle". After hearing that and seeing the rest of the video it immediately cleared up a lot of my misconceptions, including harshly cutting out frequencies to "make space" for other things. Thank you a lot for this!
Monitoring issue ..better converters listening environment not the tools or knowledge.Also sounding like others is not good they have different views
I almost made this mistake on my recent project when I forgot that I had 808 on stereo because I listen to some of these youtube producers, but I learned my lesson after some time of struggling. Thanks
Nice to hear someone say this. It’s never made sense to me either. I’ve even tried it and it made my mix feel weird.
I’ve never heard anyone explain it this way. They always tell you carve, cut all low mids on instruments to make room and get rid of ALL low end energy robbing of loudness. Thanks for your rational insight on that. Maybe that’s why my mixes get thin. I just have to learn how to get rid of muddiness.
Just put a little dip around 300hz
I worked with the owner of a Latin music orchestra as a FOH sound tech and stage rigger, he once reprimanded me about cutting below 50Hz on a performance we had because to me it was normal and at the time I did it so they wouldn't couple the stage monitors with the mics. "Keep things simple, fix it, never subtract." That's what he said. He was right and I could see it for myself.
There’s no such thing as “never subtract”
@@Gang-25j actually yes, you can review the FFT (Fast Fourier Transformación) EQs, Reaper have 1 on the stock plugins, literally you can substract the noise or sound you want, but not expect the best of it.
It's live sound. While a lot of skills overlap, it's a different arena.
The analyzer is much appreciated. Really helps to see AND hear exactly what you are talking about. I made the low cut mistake when I first started producing years ago. It never gave me a good mix. Sure, I could mix louder but it was a very unsatisfying sound.
I'm not sure why so many people have the idea these days that bass of all things is not important anymore.
It's very tempting to use cut-&-paste mixing techniques, because it does make things a lot easier but I can say from experience, a natural sounding mix is always more satisfying in the long run. Unless you have mad skill or amazing luck in your instrument choices, it takes a lot of effort to get that natural sound. I think one of the most surprisingly satisfying things I've learned over the past few years was instrument choice. I used to get lucky a lot but now I more actively think about instruments before I even record anything. A sign that your channel is a good influence on people, even if they don't take your classes.
You my friend are are learning the art of composition. When a piece is properly composed and recorded, it practically mixes itself. I’ve been a working engineer since before David was born. I learn from him every week.
Spectrum analyzers don’t help you HEAR anything. No one listening to a recording is using their eyes and watching a computer monitor (or if they are they aren’t focused on the music). And neither are you when you are pretending to mix music. Music is meant to be HEARD and FELT.
I’m so glad I’m not some Ding dong trying to learn music and audio mixing on UA-cam. But good luck to all. The truly gifted will find a way through this mess
Funny how at the same time people are eager to reduce everything about mixing & mastering to a strict set of rules (do this, this, and that) which MUST work on every single track in every single genre, and at the same time go: "there are no rules" 🤣
Love this style of video. Strong ideas and concepts backed up with hard evidence and examples. Thanks again, David!
I liked this one before I even watched it... I wasn't wrong. Best production advice on yt rn, thanks heartily
Thank you so much for this video David. Both the "cutting lows from the sides" and "mixing is a puzzle" issues are things that I have been thinking about for a while. Hearing the lows in the sides of big name tracks was really helpful. Nice one.
You speak wisdom my friend. Much respect. So much misinformation online and even in magazines. People just make $hit up. Anyone can start a UA-cam channel and go nuts.
As fas I am concerned, the best records were made in the 70s and 80s; no mid/side, no resonance suppression, no fancy multiband compression. If it was good enough for them, it’s good enough for us. Good ears, and a well balanced mix go a long way in making a classic master.
100% agree!!!!! exception.... Cutting vinyl (and it still doesn't necessarily need to be to drastic if you know what you are doing)... The presence of low end In the sides is often part of a BIG SOUND!.... to my ears.
To my ears loud mix is shit and annoying so keep the dynamics and the low end fat instead of having it loud.We listen to a music first of all.
I made a surprising discovery about cutting low end in general. I recorded some tracks, only voice and acoustic guitar (Dreadnought). Everyone said „cut the lows, the Dreadnoughts are awful to record“. So I started cutting the lows step by step and when I tried to master, I was wondering why everything sounded a bit too cold and harsh.
After some time, I found your channel and I went back the raw tracks with almost no processing. I did a test and played them through my MIXDREAM, added some Stereo width, centered the vocals and it sounded so much better 😀. Day and night difference to me. Now, I can start to begin mixing again with a much deeper understanding. Thanks David.
PS And when I do some side chain, I know what to do and what not to do.
Perfect Circle 🤘🏻
Parkway Drive Romance is Dead is so classic. Nice video idea too! Super insightful!
This was really good David. Thank you very much. Examples made everything much clear.
Musical myth buster. Thanks David.
Great video, as always. You really know how to not only explain these concepts in a simple but nuanced way but also you choose good topics, issues, and questions that are going to be useful and how to frame thinking about them. Thanks, man.
Love this, we live in an era where we're so lucky to have mid side separation and we tend to abuse it like adding extra sides info or cutting when no needed. We're so lucky to have lush vst reverbs and people tend to cut sides below around 300hz if not 400...
mid side is a beutiful thing but has to be used more like the cheery on top of the cake
Answered the few remaining questions on my mastering processing, thanks!
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
I did this today and the power from the bass was gone and became basic after I cut the side lows ! I went back and added it ! Thanks from confirming this ! Especially if making a song at -8 lufs!
Really, quickly becoming one of my favourite UA-camrs. This info is absolutely priceless. Thank you. Love your passion about this.
Ooooooo I love the way this felt coming out of my monitors.. Warm and thick!
Glad I found this channel. You sound legit.
Thank you. I've heard about this misconception before, glad to learn from you about it
The Almighty MixbusTv back with more content gold.
thx David! Thanks to you I can stop sacrificing well mixed tracks by outdated theories...
it's very advanced somehow but good to learn and come back later to view again the video and understand it better
Thank you David! Best on YT!
There is one area where side low cutting is applicable though - when mastering for vinyl. Would be bad to have the needle jump off the grooves.
Cutting lows on the sides will not give you certainty that your needle won't jump same as having them won't necessarily make it jump
@@mixbustv Agreed! I don't cut lows on the sides when mastering for vinyl. I would rather rely on the expertise of the vinyl cutting engineer to exercise their best judgement as to whether or not to apply an elliptical filter as needed. After all, they are the ones who create the test pressing.
You hear it with good monitors ..
Pulling out A Perfect Circle as an example 👌
This video is very educational. I'm ready for my first bass solo (lol). Thank you David!
Wonderfull explanations with great pedagogy. Big fan!
Agree with you here. It's the predominant opinion to cut lows on the sides completely, but it makes for boring, sterile mixes.
Wow I needed this! Best content
From 12:30 I needed to hear this today. Worried about my rumble as I recorded my guitars, clarinet and saxophone lines and was trying to do things in a formulaic way instead of respecting that this track is its own thing and working with it than against it.
I think I need to trust my classical composition training instead of throwing it all to the wind on the words of your average UA-cam "just do this one trick to get amazing mixes" producer
Excelente vídeo!
Thank you for all your work david
Great video again!
ah ah great choice of songs ! 90's neo metal . Thanks
Hey, David, we have already heard when not to use mid/side filters/EQ, can, you please, explain, the cases, when you would use it?
Mid side master processing is a very difficult and advanced techniques, done with small gentle cuts and boosts. This is done to enhance the stereo image. However, again you have to know exactly what you're doing or you'll just create phase problems.
You're taking about doing or not doing a mid side cut on the whole mix..not about trimming w high pass or low shelf individual instruments? I would assume a lot of the tunes you went through had trimming done to some degree on individual tracks or group busses while mixing. That's why the low energy on sides isn't as loud in final mix as center.
correct
Little question: if i use a low CUT instead of a low shelf to cut the lows of my individual sounds ? Does that causes phasing? Just wanted to clarify
a.k.a use your ears
Thank you for the class!
Thanks again for the extrem helpfull description ! 🔥🔥🔥
Came for the hair cut but this was actually usefull, thanks!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
You are so Right NOT cutting the low give the music way more punch and make it WIDER! ❤
Thanks for explaining so well. I used to cut a lot lows because a lot resources tell you that, but since quite a time i began to experiment with the lows and noticed that there is so much musical power that I can not cut out any more:)
Good for you. I stopped to cut, when I compare my mixes to professional productions. I noticed that in low freq. are so many very useful information.
love your vids bro ... no bs at all ... eye opening
ARRANGEMENT is a puzzle. Every part needs to occupy its own space. You can't have, like, four melodies going simultaneously, so fitting each part into its own "space", both timing and frequency-wise, is a crucial part of writing and producing songs. If that's not done well, the mixing process isn't going to make any difference.
Eh, not really. You can definitely have multiple melodies going, you can also have multiple counter-melodies going at the same time. Just like you have multiple vocals, multiple guitars, etc.. You wouldn't have two snares or two kicks doing different groves but then again, if they fit..
Another great video, thank you David!
Hi David, fantastic video. What are your thoughts on removing sub information from the sides during mastering in electronic genres (such as psychedelic trance) where preserving the phase relationship between kick and bass even when collapsed to mono is critical to the desired effect?
I thought I my I just talked about this in the video?
@@mixbustv Maybe I misunderstood, I thought your video was more about some people cutting the sub info from the side in order to gain infinitesimal headroom, but losing the balls of the mix in the process. I was commenting on the benefits of removing the subs from the sides at the mastering stage in order to minimise phase cancellations when it's collapsed to mono. Specifically in genres where a clean kick and bass phase relationship is important.
@@ajja The way I look at it is like this... solo the sides below 60 and then solo the mids below 60. If you can hear massive thumping sub bass in the sides, sure that's probably not good... but that's not what you will hear in the tracks in the video. I guess it could seem subtle, but that little bit of stereo width in the bottom definitely adds balls and stereo image, even if it's not the full sub bass or kick. Long story short, compare the sides and mids on all frequencies to major releases... that should tell you what you should be doing.
Great vid - I find I can cut lows for clarity, but then the lack of conflicting frequencies then changes the feel of the music entirely, as the clashes (accidental, from throwing sounds together and seeing what sticks, from the production / artistic perspective) are then removed, which is often the 'magic' or soul that is good about the music in the first place.
thanks, good advice. I have been cutting those low sides for a while now, time to stop that.
Fantastic content
Best advise.
I don't like to judge a book by its cover but when I saw you I was like "its obvious this guy knows what hes talking about"
Thank you, you just confirmed my recent mixing and mastering experience where I brought up the all the lows and even some low-mid in the sides to make it sound fuller and balanced.
Tuning the kick drum and bass instrument in the mix is how I make enough "space" for each and hear/feel them enough in the mix. Some saturation or exciter helps.
That was perfect
A mix should have 1 pair of balls - the MID and the SIDE low end! #amen
Excelente información, gracias 👌🏻
I get how you can make things wide, but how are there actually “sides”?? How do these plugins see it???
Thanks David!
thank you, finally somebody says it
Excellent information!!
Thanks!
If only I came across this channel years ago 🤦🏾♂️ Such great advice thanks 💯💯💯
Sometimes you NEED those EDGE'S! I've tried cutting too much, only to realize "this song felt completely different before
How much of the lows in the sides are due to Stereo Widening on the master chain?
Depends on the mix
I wish I didn't have to figure this out on my own a few years back... so many people putting out bad advice like they know what they're talking about. Btw, that ISOL8 plugin has taught me so much through using it to do tests like the one in this video... highly recommended.
This vid was so informative and well explained thanks so much David you cleared a bunch of questions ive had up
Just analyzing sounds of analog synths and digital VSTs, you will be surprised how many bass sounds have vital information in the low sides.
useful insight, thank you
Great vid!
Nice video man and thanks for the recommendation and your live the other day I went ahead and got the heritage symph eq
My monitors only really start (+/- 2dB) at 50 Hz, yet I am hearing very much here. To me that sounds like more than just the sub 35Hz information, even if we add the little slope that cuts some of the frequencies up to 60 Hz or whatever it is. So I'm confused by that demonstration. However I don't cut the lows on the sides by default anyway - and if I do, I usually prefer to do it on specific instruments. When I do it on a whole mix, it usually is because the mix has issues and the kick actually gets washy because of a bass or 808 that's loud with tons of side-info. However I LOVE using mid/side eqs, hell, mid/side in general.. so I'll watch that other video next.
Mid/Side feels like a problem solver or even a creative tool at first glance, but ultimately it is highly unnecessary in my honest opinion. Once you've sort of improved on your mixing journey, you'll really start to understand the term K.I.S.S. It's really true and when you've mixed something well, everything will fall into the right context and place without all the crazy mid/side moves. This is speaking even from a production/sound design point of view.
La hostia tio!! excelente video.
deep topic
Not really
So its different, cuting "side", from "stereo" on fabfilter? 🙏
great video bro
_"Cut the low frequencies on the sides. Trust me, a guy who mixes on headphones and can't hear this shit anyway"_ Yes that hyper-specific thing with potentially extreme phase consequences is absolutely necessary to get a good mix. You absolutely need that 0.1db of headroom to make things louder. You couldn't possibly just turn down your 2bus and do the exact same thing. Wait, aren't the guys who believe this garbage the same people who think the loudness war is over? Why do they care about loudness when they think Spotify is going to turn things down for them? _It's like they don't actually know what they're doing_
All that low end just about blew my headphones off! Great stuff as usual! You don’t have to use a plug-in just because it’s on your list…😉🤘🏻
One of my noob discoveries was lo cut....then in another phase I discovered it again as a problem. While useful, I was binding the horse behind the wagon. And actually I see this a lot with videos that are made by home producers and not professionals. Because many, and me to, producing electronic music. And here is where i was binding the horse behind the wagon. Think about Beethoven, when he lost his hearing he still composed. He knew where to place the instruments. That kind of is obscured when you produce electronic and you see sampled instruments as part of the electronic music. But it starts with composition, where is this instrument, or designed sound sitting in the mix. Now I don't use channel strips, first gainstage, volume panning and the slowly adding eq compression, channel strips. But far far less. Many tracks I run through my outboard gear. Doing far less eq ing, lo cutting, compressing. If design sounds as synth addict, before I make a song, I know put much more work in the composition to begin win with. When you produce home, there's always overlap. But try to seperate sound design, composition, mixing. Mixing, think volume panning first...
I was head bopping my head off during Bella's track
🤘🤘
Nice vid mate also your hair is next level lol gj
What about Reese bases? Should I mono the sub or should I leave the sub wide. Usually the entire synth all the way down to the lowest fundamental is massively stereo. Genuinely curious though I should do some experimenting. Usually I use ozone imager to mono the lowest fundamental and then use a multi band compressor to make that fundamental as consistent in volume as possible.
The Reeses power is in its phasy stereoness. Definitely leave the sides in. BUT. Reese's are sometimes made using phase shift, so fold your Reese into mono and see if it disappears, if it does choose another Reese that doesn't.
@@NoQualmsTheArtist what if I use a pure sine wave an octave below?
@@fernandomanqueo8683 a pure soundwave is perfectly in phase so it doesn't matter if it's mono or stereo as the exact information is coming through both speakers, which is what mono really is anyway.
I'm so happy I found this video as yeah I hate modern music sounds so sterile...there is more technical stuff in a mix than feelings and vibe ...There are plenty of records out there that they would never be broadcasted as per "modern mix/master standards". They are so called bad mixes but they are just amazing tunes full of "accidents" but making a great atmosphere in the end when u listen to... I really hate we are putting too much attention to "stupid rules". Music no matter how well is mixed has to trigger certain emotions even if there is STH done to the mix that modern standards don't accept..and I really don't care if it was recorded in the garage or studio for 1000000000$ as far as I like it and it touches my heart...there were so many demos sounded better than "studio production" that killed the vibe ...been fighting with many music engineers and gurus ...oh u don't do that this is not they way we do ...wtf!
I'm on good speakers and there is absolutely no rumble. I think it's the youtube converstion.
Oh no there is
Cheers
Thanks 👍🏾
3.08 I did check your other video but there's nothing there... so why do we hear higher frequencies when we low-pass an entire song?
Yes Sir
If the examples are mastered tracks wouldn't they add the sides back with some stereo widening in the mastering stage so thats the reasoning for the sides info being there. I thought people were talking about moving some sides in the mixing stage for the kick, 809, sub etc. Correct me if Im wrong, thanks
question: Lets say that kick and bass are in mono. Leaving sub frequencies of other sounds (samples for example) only in sides wouldn´t affect the phase of kick and bass? tnx and nice videos!
No it won't. Direct phase relation only happens with mult (copying your bass or kick and doing parallel processing) or multi-mic'd sources (i.e. 2 mic on a kick or snare or bass cab etc..). Everything else falls into masking which COULD include minor and in 99% of cases totally insignificant phase inter-play between instruments but that's.. mixing and in the particular example you gave, just no.
@@mixbustv tnx again!