Bible Project: The Theology Behind the Videos
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- #bibleproject #thebibleproject #timmackie #bible #jesus #god #paulwasher #gospel #truth #christianity #hell #heaven #atonement #lgbt #homosexuality #gay
I saw some videos recently regarding Tim Mackie's theology on a couple key doctrine's (the atonement, hell, and homosexuality) that I was surprised to see. I wanted to give my thoughts on it and compare his teaching directly to the Bible.
Tim Mackie’s sermon on atonement: • 2. Atonement - The Lan...
Tim Mackie’s sermon on hell: • Compelled: Speaking an...
Tim Mackie’s sermon on Jesus, Marriage, and Sex: • 28. Jesus, Marriage, a...
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![28. Jesus, Marriage, and Sex [Matthew] - Tim Mackie (The Bible Project)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1xvt6AMaBow/mqdefault.jpg)
![28. Jesus, Marriage, and Sex [Matthew] - Tim Mackie (The Bible Project)](/img/tr.png)
If I may defend, the Bible Project is trying to change the way people read the Bible. You didn't quite get into why you had a problem with that besides some bit clips that sound bad out of context and with commentary.
When people can't understand the Bible they're trying to read, or many don't read it at all, yes, we need to change the way we're reading it. The whole point of the Bible Project is please, "read scripture," and that will always be a net plus. I do hope your video is a good warning for those who need to know that, yes, everything we say should be taken with a grain of salt.
Thank you for the kind, thoughtful response. And thanks for watching my video in the first place - I really appreciate it 🙂
Yeah, I never expanded on my comment in the beginning about how they want a fresh way of reading the Bible. It’s just a bit unsettling to me whenever I see something like that because God’s Word is unchanging, so why do we need a “new way” of reading it? We should read the Bible in its context with accurate hermeneutics.
But I’m all for the animations. I think that’s wonderful. But we still have to be 100% faithful to doctrine.
So I respectfully cannot agree with you that “we need to change the way we’re reading it.” We just need to apply better studies.
But if the Bible Projects whole point is to truly get people to “read Scripture” - then, amen!
@@colin_priest with your explanation, I do think we agree. From what I can see, the Bible Project is trying to change how people read scripture by telling the whole story (yes from a birds eye view) and explaining the actual genres that scripture was written in. They're not trying to read scripture in a new way. They want new Christians to see the scriptures the way God intended, the way the authors wrote, and the way the faithful Israelites and later the faithful and thoughtful Christians read and meditated on the scriptures. And in history, aren't we all new Christians? I hope you and everyone reading and watching has an excellent day.
@@BazookaSniper That was really well put my guy. Yeah I do not think the Bible Project is trying to indoctrinate Followers of Jesus with a new exciting way to read Scripture, but if anything they are (in their best way possible, but not perfectly) trying to get Followers of Jesus to read the Bible the way that the original audience would have understood it, in their original context, with their original geographical, historical, etc. you name it. Because of this, I think it can look as though it is some “new” way of reading Scripture, when in reality maybe it just looks that way because the way Western thought and teaching within the Church has handled their audience to read their Bibles is not very practical, informative, or contextually accurate. I really do appreciate what he, and the Bible Project Team, does.
With that said, I want to commend you on this. You do bring up great points and stuff to meditate on and think about with his teaching. He is not perfect, nor should any Follower of Jesus think Tim is the perfect teacher. But a few cautions to echo from my friend above and more: (1) Some of the stuff was out of context that you pointed out (especially the homosexuality sermon). You were making fair points, but I believe a few of them were based not on the context Tim was coming from with what he was discussing, especially in the Homosexuality sermon (which was not the main point of the sermon anyways, it was marriage and sex). Great video, but remember, you are taking 3+ hours of sermons (probably more from other works of his) and creating a 19min video on his theological views. There are probably some stuff that you, me, and everyone else missed. (2) Tim is not perfect, and (correct me if I am wrong) these were all a few years ago and he is doing this by himself without a team of other people around him to bounce off questions and comments. Who knows what has changed since then.
Again, loved this video and I really do love when people remind us that great Followers of Jesus are not Jesus and can make errors, but we must be careful. A wise Pastor of mine once said, “Everyone’s theology is wrong.” What I took from that is, I have never met someone where I fully 100% agreed on every moral, ethical, and theological teaching they had…other than Jesus and the Apostles of course :)
@@colin_priestI think you need to learn to understand English first, rather than start commenting on others.
You cuts someone’s videos out of context and you comment on it. 😅
FIRST of all, Tim Mackie doesn’t neglect that Hell is the eternal punishment and the lake of fire etc. He said “IT IS NOT JUST THE END GAME”. So it means hell is the end game like the lake of fire and etc. But more than that in essence it means separation with God. Isaiah 59:2 said that our sins that separates us from God. Hell is the divorce between God and humanity, said CS Lewis.
When humanity chose to sin etc, they release hell.
SECOND
Tim mackie also doesn’t disagree with penal substitution. He agrees with it. When you saw his other videos he shows that he agrees with substitution.
But what he doesn’t agree with is that it is not God’s anger that derives Him to give us atoning rituals in the OT and or giving Christ as our substitution.
Because if God is angry with us and he hates us, he could just right away do it.
But the fact that he gives us way to reconciliation by giving the atoning sacrifice shows his love rather than his wrath. See john 3:16 what derives God gives His Son? Anger or love?
See 1 John 4:10
So when the Israelites comes to the tent of meeting or to the temple to give sacrifices. They didn’t see a God who angry and hates them that wants to kill them. But God who loves them that He provides the ritual so they can be reconciled.
Not like pagan worshippers, they gave Zeus Poseidon and other gods sacrifices because they afraid that if they dont, Zeus will kill them. Zeus will give him plagues, etc.
See 1 John 4:17-18
@@spideryface2003 well said ya’ll!
Listen to the whole lesson Mackie taught on Jesus' view of marriage. He says that Jesus sees marriage as a covenant between 1 man and 1 woman and anything outside of that is set outside of wedlock, which is obviously sin.
Totally agree. These videos are Christian click bate.
My problem isn’t with Mackie’s definition of marriage. My problem is him incorporating homosexuality into Matthew 19 when the text does not say that and that he never calls it sin in his sermon.
@@colin_priest I think it is just as accurate to call someone gay and Christian if they are predisposed to same sex attraction, but are committed to a celibate lifestyle. I think that is what Mackie is saying. The act of homosexuality is definitely sin, but even straight people (like myself) are attracted to women they are not married to. Feeding that attraction and acting on it is sin. It doesn't mean we aren't saved just because we are tempted by sin. That is part of everyone's story.
@@ServetusTrumpsCalvinkeep it up! You’re on the right path! Well done speaking calmly and clearly and focusing on speaking in a manner that is respectful and to the point. I’m not just saying this because I agree with you but that I really appreciate how you carry it.
@@ServetusTrumpsCalvinTim Mackie does not say the homosexual lifestyle is sin anywhere! Listen to all his Bible project videos anywhere there is a passage about homosexuality! He is leading them to hell with his teaching!! GOD is the one we are answerable to! He says it is sin! Mackie doesn’t!
There are many different views of the atonement that predate penal substitutionary atonement. Christianity didn’t start with the reformation. Protestants aren’t the only Christians. Let’s have some humility here knowing we can think differently about things but still be brothers in Christ.
I never said Tim Mackie isn’t a brother in Christ, but what other views were there of the atonement that predate penal substitutionary atonement? What are your sources?
@@colin_priest There are over 300 million Eastern Orthodox Christians who don’t believe in penal substitutionary atonement. The church fathers who put together the original canon of scripture even had different views. Christian history didn’t start with Luther or Calvin. Some basic research you can see there are many other views outside of PSA.
“Some basic research” but you still haven’t listed a source.
What’s funny is penal substitutionary atonement started with the Bible. Not only do we have shadows of this reality like when Judah was willing to die in the place of his brother Benjamin and all the animal sacrifices, but we also have Peter, John, and Paul explicitly explaining the atonement.
Peter: 1 Peter 3:18, “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous…”
John: 1 John 2:2, “He is the propitiation for our sins…”
Paul: Romans 3:25, “whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.“
Propitiation literally means “the action of appeasing a god, spirit, or person.” And Oxford Dictionary even goes as far as to say “atonement, especially that of Jesus Christ.”
So I’m not sure why you think this doctrine started with the Reformers when it clearly has its basis in the Bible.
@@colin_priest On The Incarnation by St. Athanasius.
None of those verses support the father taking his wrath out on Jesus instead of us. 2 Corinthians 5:19 God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself. The father & Jesus are one. Penal substitution implodes the trinity. If you have seen Jesus you have seen the father.
Matthew 26:3-4 “the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they schemed to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him.”
God didn’t kill Jesus…people did!
Thanks for the source. I’ll have to check it out!
As far as the Bible not having any verses about God taking His wrath out on His Son: Isaiah 53:10, “Yet it pleased the Lord to crush Him.” We also have John 3:36, 1 Thess. 1:10, and Romans 5:9.
I’m not sure what you think propitiation means, but it’s Jesus acting as our substitute. He took in our place. He stood condemned as the sinner so that we could be seen as righteous (2 Cor. 5:21).
I think Tim mackie clearly has a biblical vision of marriage: a covenant between male and female. And he affirms that sex is only sacred within the marriage space. It’s clear in his Jesus: Sex and marriage sermon as well as his sermon on fruits of the spirit where he talks about sexual immorality.
Granted I don’t agree entirely with his view of hell, but he still affirmed some version of it and definitely affirms Gods judgement.
Thank you 👏🏾!
My problem isn’t with Tim’s definition of marriage. My problem is Tim incorporating homosexuality into the text in Matthew when it’s not there. Why doesn’t he also include pedophilia or adulterers or fornicators when he’s talking about sex and marriage? What about those who are attracted to minors but can’t have sex with them? Was Jesus also including them when he was talking about marriage and sex?
@@colin_priest Homosexuality is a sin. Being tempted to be a practicing homosexual and not falling into that sin doesn't equate to being homosexual. Being a practicing homosexual IS as bad as being a pedophile or adulterer. Being tempted to look at porn doesn't make one a pornography addict. Yielding to temptation is sin. Even Jesus was tempted to sin.
We play fast and loose with the truth when we take what another has said out of context. I received my training at a thoroughly orthodox Christian university under excellent scholars. And after watching dozens of Bible Project teachings, I've yet to see anything unbiblical. You may not agree with Dr. Mackie's eschatology, for example, but these issues are secondary.
Exactly. And to label Mackie as a false teacher shows a lack of maturity in understanding the faith.
I never call Mackie a false teacher and I never took him out of context.
You can see more of what I had to say here: Dear Bible Project Fans...we need to talk
ua-cam.com/video/rEUBVkk1BBs/v-deo.html
God bless 😊
@colin_priest At the 18:00 mark - "This is the slippery slope that false teachers fall into ..." This is your wrap up for the entire video, brother. What a shame if some of your followers avoid The Bible Project because they think Mackie is a false teacher!
My problem is that Tim Mackie takes verses out of context.
Yikes - Colin clearly suffers from 2D versions of atonement, hell, and same sex attraction. I’ve watched the full length videos used in this and Colin misses the complexities and subtleties of Tim’s articulated theology. He doesn’t quite grasp the missional considerations present when starting a conversation with a progressive mindset prevailing in the PNW. Recommended reading: The Whole Christ by Sinclair Ferguson.
Would love for you and Tim Mackie to talk about these topics on your channel.
That would be great!
Good luck. Tim is booked out 2 yrs. I had emailed them a couple months ago with suggestions on interveiws
Wow!! I often wondered. Thank u so much for really looking into this. Nice to see such a young man who is so mature in the Lord. My eyes are wide open.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Tim is not affirming a homosexual lifestyle. He is affirming their struggle and suggesting celibacy and even that they consider the high calling of a life of being single.
Its the exact opposite of affirming.
U really need to question ur intentions in making these vids. It seems like u have a hard time understanding his teaching which u misinterpret which then triggers u to develope preconceived notions of Tims beliefs and everything he says goes thru that filter.
I never said he affirms it. I agree with you on that. Did you not watch my video? lol
But he also never says it’s sin in that sermon. That’s a problem. Why doesn’t he mention those who struggle with attraction to minors as well? I don’t hear him saying, “Whether you’re straight, whether you’re gay, or attracted to children - we’re all just deeply flawed people who need God’s grace.”
Not sure why you feel the need to defend him, but I would careful man. Read your Bible and listen to man’s teaching on it second.
Blessings.
You have never actually heard him speak on it besides this video then. Even in the interview with gospel simplicity he says it’s a sin. You clearly do zero research and only understand the context of the American Bible. You should learn before you speak.
This guy is just a contrarian
Spot on. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@@colin_priestI’d imagine he’s not saying it’s a sin because he doesn’t want to condemn people. People aren’t going to feel love and actually listen to what you have to say if you’re constantly telling them of where they fall short
“For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”
John 3:17 ESV
Telling people that it’s a sin isn’t always the best approach to loving people. You sound very legalistic which is what Jesus was confronting in his day
So earlier in my Christian walk I'd watch their content. I was ignorant of scripture. But as discernment and understanding arrived and grew, thanks be to God I fled and never looked back. Now it's easy to point out and see when someone is tampering with the Word of God!
Praise the Lord, brother. I pray you continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ
@@colin_priest Amen! Thank you and God bless you!
Here's the context for the last and clearest point of this video:
ua-cam.com/video/1xvt6AMaBow/v-deo.html
I think the diligent observer will notice that, in context, Tim Mackie is obviously affirming traditional understanding of the marital covenant. At 56:07 he makes that very clear.
I appreciate you responding with respect and taking us back to the sermon.
You’re right that Mackie holds to the traditional view of marriage. I never said that he doesn’t. It’s the way he talks about homosexuality is my concern. He’s very careful to not affirm it, but also not call it sin.
Within the very same minute that he says Christ holds to traditional marriage, he also says at 56:49, “He’s calling me to not have sex - with people of the opposite gender or the same gender. He (Jesus) doesn’t highlight one as more than the other.”
@@colin_priestthe goal of the BibleProject is not to preach repentance or convey their theological views. It is an introduction to the fundamentals of the Bible, specifically speaking to a society that readily accepts homosexuality.
1 Corinthians 3:2
“I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.”
I watched a Bible project video with incorrect contextual explanation on something I read in the Bible and found this channel. Thanks for the coverage.
Very helpful and fair critique. I love the good work the Bible Project has done on most of what it provides but these points are worthy of concern and I really appreciate the even-handed and precise approach you’ve taken in your review. Thanks, brother, for making such a helpful resource.
Thank you so much for that encouragement! Seriously, that means a lot. I’ve taken a lot of heat for making this video (especially from my Shorts) but my aim was for helpful and fair and I’m glad you found my video to be just that 🙂
@@colin_priest I have seen a few videos from others giving the same warning but they provide much less detail and far harsher criticisms which just made me doubt their credibility. I heard someone say recently that the internet is where nuance goes to die. It's sad but true. You have identified a serious issue but also recognized that the people working on the Bible Project are also providing a lot of good resources at the same time. We can criticize and be aware of the former without condemning the latter. Discernment if a valuable resource. Thanks for encouraging it! Keep up the good work.
I fully agree with you, @LarryCastle . All of it 😁. So thankful for the good work the Bible Project has done. But these points truly are worthy of a lot of concerns and I must say that I now am skeptical towards whatever video I was of the Bible Project. And it's sad
The way people have read and used the Bible has been wrong. We have to admit that. My race has been enslaved and racism has been condoned and encouraged by people using the Bible. To take that one phrase on their website and distorting their view is problematic for me and it does not purport what they are trying to communicate
I agree. But I would say that Tim Mackie has replaced some wrong doctrines with another.
As for slavery, I would say that in the Mosaic law, there were rules about it. They didn't enslave people base on race. They had laws on how to treat a slave. It was completely different than slavery in America. Many slaves in Israel were paying off debts, or paying for a crime they committed. I absolutely agree that American slavery was evil. As well as slavery done by most nations throughout history. As far as scripture goes, I liken it to polygamy. These are 2 things that God allowed, but wasn't his perfect intention for us. I believe we are all meant to be free beings, and that marriage is meant to be one man and one woman.
Thanks for posting this vid. U just helped me finally feel like understand atonement
I have been struggling with it for over 20 yrs but now I finally get it thanks to me trying to explain Tim to u
So what’s your view on the atonement? I’m so confused lol
@@colin_priestwould you ever debate anyone on your views or do you just hide behind UA-cam?
@@colin_priestyou say god hates evil and you are say evil as the same as sin. Hebrew writers views sin as a completely different word then evil. American Christian’s don’t seem to care about what the original writers wrote.
@@colin_priestlet’s debate this video.
Have you not seen my street evangelism videos?
Dude-talk about stretching!! "Gay" isn't being used by Tim as a behavior. It's being used as an identity. And you can be philosophically opposed to such language (I am myself opposed to it), but you're twisting Tim's meaning. You need to repent of this, brother.
A better way to understand Tim's meaning (I've listened to his whole sermon) is "same-sex-attracted" rather than "someone living a homosexual lifestyle."
Let's at least try to be on the same page before we start hurling accusations.
I listened to the entire sermon as well. I, by no means, am trying to twist Tim’s meaning. I try to present whoever’s view I’m talking about fairly. He added to Scripture. He never once, in that entire sermon, condemned “same-sex-attracted” anything. He was very vague whenever he mentioned it. I have no idea where he stands on that issue because he wasn’t very clear in his sermon. But he did add to Scripture and he implied things into Matthew 19 that aren’t there.
@@colin_priest Brother I'm not sure we listened to the same sermon-was it not the one on Matthew 19?? I listened to it a few times over (this was a while back) because I had heard similar accusations leveled at Tim Mackie. Tim appeals to Jesus and to Genesis 1 many times over the course of the sermon to define marriage as a covenant promise between one man and one woman. And then I do remember he defines πορνεία as anything outside of that marriage covenant. I just don't see how any room is given to anything remotely LGBT-affirming there. Consider his context-he’s preaching deep in Portland’s extremely progressive culture. He is taking a lot of time to patiently walk his congregants through the Biblical definition of marriage. It doesn’t play well to soundbites.
If you're not talking about the sermon on Matthew 19, I apologize. I do remember him talking about marriage and eunuchs in there so I was pretty sure that was the one.
But I also noticed something you said just now: ‘He never once, in that entire sermon, condemned “same-sex-attracted” anything.’
I'm not sure I agree with condemning same-sex-attracted people for having feelings-is that what you meant??
My point in differentiating gay vs same-sex-attracted was to make a clear line between 1) your use of "being gay"-that is, I thought, "living a lifestyle of homosexuality"-and 2) Tim's use of "being gay"-that is, "having a homosexual orientation." (I am pretty sure he does use the word “orientation,” but regardless, this is the only reasonable interpretation of his meaning given his definition of sexual sin)
But I don't agree that we should be condemning people for being tempted to sin when those temptations aren't acted upon. Do you?
For comparison, let's say a person who was a thief, who also has kleptomania, becomes a Christian. If she feels strong impulses to steal something, but resists the temptation thanks to the Holy Spirit's power, should she feel guilty for being tempted? Should she be condemned for having kleptomania?
Paul tells us that, for those who are in Christ Jesus, there is no condemnation-because the law of the Spirit of Life has set them free from the law of Sin and Death.
I do not agree that anyone should be condemning a mere temptation towards sin.
@@colin_priest Found a link to the sermon here. ua-cam.com/video/1xvt6AMaBow/v-deo.html
You are in flat error brother. Tim defines both marriage and sexual sin, Biblically conservative.
Yes, that’s the sermon. This is the one in which he defines marriage but then he adds to Jesus’ interpretation.
There are 4 separate times in this sermon where he talks about homosexuality and never once says anything about how it’s wrong or sinful. Which is strange to me because he says Jesus says “marriage is between one man and one woman” but then he also says things like “Jesus didn’t say whether is abstaining sex from the same gender or different gender.” Why does he say that then? He goes against himself in his own sermon.
And once again, he adds to Galatians 3:28! At best, that is really, really poor/ thoughtless wording (which he is extremely thoughtful so I don’t he just had a slip up) and at worse - that’s heresy. Why don’t you condemn that?
I have been wrong before and if I am wrong, I’m willing to admit and apologize, but I feel like I was very fair to Tim’s sermon. Others call him a heretic and a false teacher - I didn’t go that far. I just see red flags and his unwillingness to be very clear on a super contentious subject. That’s not on accident.
@@colin_priest I understand, thanks for replying to my comment. Take a look at the sermon, starting at minute 39:00 and listen to the next 30 seconds. He does indeed define sexual sin and marriage quite clearly within that half-minute itself.
I think at this point you need to ask, a) what is the point of this passage in Matthew 19? b) what is the point of this sermon? c) what is the message that the Spirit has burdened Tim with? Is it to declare homosexual behavior as sinful? Or is it a different message, to which homosexuals only tangentially relate? More on that in a minute. Because I think to understand the main point of his sermon is to understand why he’s using the language he’s using.
But as for the "adding to scripture," the use of that argument this way is a nonstarter for me. If one is truly concerned about “adding to scripture” in the way Tim is argued to be doing, then…
1) one should not use translations except for perhaps Young's Literal, because they all have to add words to make the target language intelligible in its own context.
2) one should not use commentaries or study Bibles, because they add context and helpful information to the text.
3) one should never preach from the Bible, because as soon as you finish reading scripture and then start expositing, you are adding meaning and insight to scripture for the benefit of your congregation.
4) and one should certainly never confess a creedal or doctrinal statement, because that’s adding to scripture right there.
…It just gets to the point of ridiculousness to start attacking people who riff on a Biblical idea and then say they’re “adding to scripture” in some nefarious or misguided way. There is a responsible way to use scriptural ideas to get a point across without saying “Hey guys, the Bible says [insert thing the Bible doesn’t say]”.
Moreover, at minute 58 when Tim presents Paul’s list from Galatians 3, it should be abundantly clear that he is not trying to sneak in something to scripture. He isn’t even reading at this point, but riffing. He’s not presenting scripture from the text; he’s not saying “Paul says in Galatians…” But rather, he is encapsulating his big idea exposited from Matthew 19 using some further scripturally-stylized language.
Stick with me and help me break it down. Tim is taking the list Paul provides in Galatians 3 as cultural positions…Jew/gentile, male/female, slave/free…notice that none of these are behavior-oriented, but rather *established social categories.* We have one such category in our society today that Paul didn’t have, and that is the idea of being “gay or straight.” Not in terms of behavior, but in terms of one’s very identity and sense of position/happiness/fulfillment in life. And this is exactly what Mackie is taking aim at throughout the sermon.
Tim needs his audience to hear that sex is NOT the meaning of life. That a fulfilled life is not all about having sex. AND he needs them to hear that our culture is wholly upside down on this issue. That is his message. And he also obviously wants to be understood as not just offering a "consolation prize" to gay believers (like, "We heterosexuals get to be married and have families and be happy and fulfilled, but look what you get......celibacy!!! Isn't it great!! Now you can be fulfilled too, somehow, I guess!") but he is turning the whole happiness/fulfillment paradigm on its head and pointing to Jesus, who "made himself a eunuch" for the sake of the Kingdom. The point of human existence is to live out our design as the image of God. To live for the Kingdom of God. And for some, part of that mission CAN involve joining in a marriage covenant with a partner of the opposite sex (which is itself a picture of God's own covenant love and creative life), but for others it looks like not having sex. But the whole point of life is not happiness. And that's what he needs his audience to hear-and all the while he keeps trying to point them back to Jesus.
So again, Tim is taking the concept of "being gay" (in context, understood not as the sinful act of homosexual behavior but as a feeling/orientation) and then saying "it doesn't matter if you feel sexual attraction towards the opposite gender or towards the same gender" in context of Galatians 3:28. Whatever your feelings are, you belong to Jesus.
He's not giving a pass to sinful behavior. He's addressing the orientation that has become a primary identity for millions of lost people in our culture, and giving them a way to see how Jesus overtakes the categories and identities imposed on us by our culture.
Here’s Tim’s big idea, 47:50
“The purpose of life is the Kingdom of God. Human beings will fulfill their true purpose when they are made so like God's own character that they are living, breathing images of the creator God.”
And then he goes on to expound a little bit on what that looks like for monogamous man/woman marriages, and for singles. But he keeps bringing it back to Jesus, and that’s what I really like about this sermon. Keep pointing to Jesus.
Is it possible that someone can misunderstand? Sure, if they aren’t listening well enough. Jesus’ own disciples misunderstood him.
And teachers ought to be judged more harshly. But I would exhort you brother, please take extra care that you are not opening yourself up to further judgement based on the measure you use when you teach others.
That’s all the homework I can do for now 🙃 I hope this blesses you in some way brother. That one part about Matt 19 was the only part of your video I really took issue with. I think you dealt very fairly with Tim’s ideas on hell.
Thank you so much for bringing this out. It echoed my thoughts when I was listening to Tim speak on singleness . Reading the Bible for itself is v.important instead of looking at the Bible through video presentations because the Holy Spirit will guide us into the Truth ! Jesus talked about hell in Luke 16 and too to His disciples as a reality ! The second thing is i found it v.disturbing to hear Tim Mackie speak on singleness as though it is alright to be single whether one is straight or gay ! Why bring singleness in that light at all ? Bringing Jesus down to the level of an example of singleness is forgetting that He is not a mere man like us but God who became man . He came as a sinless atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. Again Paul was a single but looking at his warning in 1cor 6 : 9 - 11 will help us understand that God is Holy and wants us to be Holy. How can same sex attraction in the mind be endorsed even if not acted out when Jesus clearly says in the Sermon on the mount that lust in the mind precedes the action and is judged by God as sin ?
Well, not to completely defend him, however we must consider certain biblical truths such as
1 John 4:10 (ESV): propitiation (literally of an angry God) Greek. And if he is keeping the lgbtq in the context of remaining single and not practicing the sin then he is within his biblical parameters. However, I do agree he should not group them in with the married or non married because of the confusing manner of presentation. Tim knows lgbtq is a sin. He also knows sin is judged impartially. So we all fall into the same category in that point. But Tim does clarify the gay or lesbian person would remain single and serve God. I think Tim’s point is that There is no shame in being single.
“However, I do agree he should not group them in with the married or non married because of the confusing manner of presentation.”
I couldn’t agree more. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my video, but you said this perfectly.
God bless the Bible Project
Here's some context for the last and clearest point of this video:
ua-cam.com/video/1xvt6AMaBow/v-deo.html
I think the diligent observer will notice that context clears away concerns. Tim Mackie is obviously affirming traditional understanding of the marital covenant. 56:07 he makes that very clear.
Knowing Tim Mackie from many hours of the BP Podcast, the point about his definition of Hell feels like semantics. I think I would challenge Tim on his view of atonement, but certainly, I would do so humbly and as a brother in Christ.
I appreciate you responding with respect and taking us back to the sermon.
You’re right that Mackie holds to the traditional view of marriage. I never said that he doesn’t. It’s the way he talks about homosexuality is my concern. He’s very careful to not affirm it, but also not call it sin.
Within the very same minute that he says Christ holds to traditional marriage, he also says at 56:49, “He’s calling me to not have sex - with people of the opposite gender or the same gender. He (Jesus) doesn’t highlight one as more than the other.”
@@colin_priest I think the reason he isn't calling out pedophiles is because it's not a relevant critique of our culture and because of the relative rarity of pedophilia. He can't make every point in every talk --- he even said in that message on Matthew 19 that he can't cover everything --- so though he never outright called homosexuality sinful, I think he was clear enough for the group he was talking too.
Honestly, after reading through the a bunch of the comments and seeing your well worded, wise replies, I realize that I could have been more gracious to you. I've seen a lot of videos with a similar format to yours, but rarely one as nuanced in final judgment.
Thank you for the kind words! Although I don’t agree, I’m glad that, as brothers in Christ, we can disagree in a way that glorifies God
Thank you for this video. Praise God for His righteousness and His love. Thank you Lord for the cross.
I agree with you. The problem is that many people in general it is easier to hear the word of God from a preacher than to really study and read the bible, so whatever the preacher is saying even if it is right or wrong from scripture the listener will take is as the only truth. We need more time with God and time to really sumerge in scripture. God bless your ministry. From Argentina ,,,🇦🇷
Wow thank you so much DEA! Yes, very true! Amen ☺️
I think these are 3 fair warnings and I respect the admonition. I’ve had those momentary “huh” and “wut” moments a few times over the years with brother Tim. I probably have listened to over 200 hours of his sermons and podcasts. I do think because of his proximity to Portland (Sodom) and his coziness with NT Wright there are some are some legit yellow flags and he likely takes some liberties that soften the Gospel call but the totality of his life, teaching, and ministry evidences someone that loves Jesus and the Book. So, I think eat the good stuff and spit out the bones.
Side note: NT Wright in the past two years has actually swung back far more balanced on the atonement.
Its easy to detect out of their videos these creators have an agenda of falsehood. I have watched multiple of their videos and they sneek in many unbiblical teachings and sayings. The voice already being kinda effeminate should raise your focus towards what is being said in the videos. These videos are loved by luke warm "Christians" with a lack of bible reading and knowledge.... So sad! Thanks for the real men bringing these false teachers to light.
“These videos are loved by luke warm Christians” - man, ain’t that the truth!
@@colin_priest Thanks for doing what you doing.
Thank you for watching and for the encouragement!
Awesome video. Discernment is essential!!!
Thank you ☺️
Thank you so much for putting this video together. Enlightening and true. Tim’s positions on many topics like the ones here covered by you just shows that a PHD in theology doesn’t make you the true interpreter of God’s word.
There is so much in the Bible and you managed to cover all that is essential and true here.
The Holy Spirit of God guides and brings discernment to those who are willing to listen.
I couldn’t agree more! And thanks for the encouragement 🙂
On homosexuality, Tim amongst his pastor friends do say in another video on sexuality say, the sex is only to be with male and female. If you look at the videos on sexuality. When it comes to any sin, a person doesn’t change overnight, it takes time. It takes time with Yeshua, with Yahweh, with the Holy Spirit. Tim is providing a place where all people can come as they are, and learn. How the Holy Spirit and that persons specific relationship journeys on is what counts.
Thank you for clarifying these points from Tim's sermons. I think sometimes we don't queetion people like Tim because of his intellect. He really dazzles with his knowledge. He can talk circles around many of us. He knows his bible. But maybe we don't know our bibles so eell, me included, well enough to decern subtle falsified teachings....food for thought. Thank you.
Tim has no urge to give falsified teachings. He has actually very sound doctrine, it is the modern mainstream christianity that has falsified the narrative. For instance hell is a human construct, it didnt exist in biblical times, original word used were hades, sheol, gehenna and valley of hinnom. The second death is eternal punishment, not torment in a hell. God is a consuming fire. 2 thes, talks about the punishment for sin is destruction.
His voice always bothered me - I thought he explained the Bible well, but something felt very off
Yup American accents are annoying. You can't really go wrong if you judge everyone based on how they sound or how they look...
It's like Jesus said in matthew 22 37 "love your neighbor as yourself, unless he talks funny or looks weird."
How God God forgive us and seek justice at the same time? Is there an example in our lives where we can see that in which our relationship with the person is fully restored?
You're not wrong by being leery of how Tim includes Homosexuals.
Marriage is between one man and women, homosexual acts are sins, and their is a Lake of Fire in Rev, the trash pit of Gahanna and separately Hades in the gossips.
HOWEVER, you may not be missing a larger point. And a spiritual one at that. In our spiritual walk and especially before we experience rebirth, we can find ourselves in hell, and christians not walking in the Lord, in sin, can find themselves in hell. Concentrating on your doctrine of what exactly the end time, eternity future result of hell is(depending on your interpretation of scripture) does not describe the spiritual realization that we experience in our earthly walk.
AND if Tim, as a pastor, wants to form a relationship, to up the doors of ministry to those living in homosexual sin, those that 'believe' they are homosexual and possibly created this way because they feel deep desire and attraction towards the same sex, than I think it is at least fair to say you have to share the good news to people were they are.
He should take a firm, hard line on it. Maybe, Tim doesn't even know how to factor in the sin natural of the flesh and the effects it creates on these seemingly natural and experimental, sexual inclinations.
THAT MAY BE a failing of his view of Christian. Or maybe he knows what he is doing.
But we don't know what's going on. Maybe, it would be better if you ask him... you know, have fellowship with a brother, and then maybe give correction.
The thing I've gathered is, Tim has a deep knowledge of scripture and the ancient language, most notably the ancient hebrew. I belive that shapes a lot of his ministry. It is also something to at least listen to and realize he has reasons for teaching saying what he does.
I believe Tim is fully aware of the complete picture of atonement and all the aspects of the Jewish sacrifices. How he describes it and in his comparison to the cross, is not from lack of biblical, historical knowledge. I would put his knowledge up against 95% of protestant pastors. AND the protestant faith still has a lot of misconceptions from the Catholics. We should double check our foundation in these matters, especially when it comes from a far removed setting like OT hebrew.
NOW Tim may still be wrong, but your going to come up against a well thought out and educated reasoning. Listen to his whole message, learn as much as you can about the ancient language, and 'different ways' and perspectives you can frame scripture when reading and deciphering.
I've said enough, if you read this far, thanks. God bless you and your channel.
I disagree with your assessments of the Bible project, and Tim’s theological perspectives, I have listened to more than 75% of their videos over the past 2 yrs. And they are very sound on the foundational teachings of Christ Jesus … side-note: we all err on the non-essentials of doctrine that is why we have 3000 or more denominations today ….
Well I appreciate you watching my video and commenting 😊
I’ve actually watched quite a bit of their videos as well, but it just concerns me when they get something so fundamental as atonement wrong. But yeah, they do produce pretty good content 👍🏻
Great video! I love my Bible Project coffee table book with all the book overviews BUT for all the reasons you pointed out, do not recommend Bible Project to people. Too muddy, too unstable. God bless you and your faithfulness is speaking out. Stand firm! I see mean comments almost trying to get you to delete this video. It is solid.
1 cor 1.30 I am *in* Christ
I am crucified with Christ. And buried
That’s more than just he died for me, although that’s also true. That’s all Mackie said. Not complicated.
As a recent born-again Christian who only came to the Lord in June 2020, I got introduced to the Bible project within about the first six months of my walk in faith with the Lord. On the surface, their videos appeared informative and well-intended. Gradually though, it became apparent that Tim Mackie doesn't possess genuine faith and has adopted several anti-Biblical perspectives as a result. It takes one to know one. I can identify many of his traits and Biblical perspectives with my former self prior to being born-again. I was a quasi-deistic Catholic who claimed to be Christian and born-again, but didn't really know the Lord and didn't have a true relationship with Jesus Christ. I thought I did, but I was self-deceived. Having been in that position, I can discern the same faux faith in Tim Mackie, which has to be compensated-for through creative interpretations that twist Scripture and God's intent. He often tries to squeeze Scripture into his personalized perspective and paradigms instead of actually moving in faith that God is the author of Scripture. I pray that Tim would have a true conversion and come to know the Lord in truth and surrendered faith.
The Lord bless you as you continue to walk with Him! I praise God for your testimony. Thanks for sharing 🙂
It's the message of reconciliation. The only way for reconciliation to happen was through the death of Jesus on the cross.
Amen!
This is a good balanced video. Acknowledging both the good content in the Bible project but also putting up some warning flags.
I personally am finding it disappointing to realize that Tim Mackie goes into his exposition with certain biases and presuppositions.
This is particularly troubling when the claim throughout is that they're doing an objective, scholarly and close reading of the scriptures.
Over the last two years I've probably listened to hundreds of hours of Bible project. Actually learned quite a bit. At times however I felt that there was an overemphasis of this kind of restoration of Eden narrative, while very little treatment on the wrath of God and the appeasement of God (Penal Substitutionary Atonement) particularly within the Pentateuch.
At times I would find myself zoning out as the verbiage grew profuse. Over time I realized that he was going to a lot of effort to build a certain narrative to the exclusion of more classical understandings that includes the fact that God and is holiness responds to sin, PSA - as the solution to the very real and explicitly expressed - wrath of God.
You will have to pay very close attention listening to the Bible project exegesis to discern these omissions, and what he substitutes in it's place.
It is in his pastoral sermons that his tendency to affirm alternative lifestyles starts to come out.
Something I've heard 5 or 6 times at least in TBP videos: Mackie will be discussing a story--say the Exodus. Then he will say something like, "Moses tells us that story to teach such-and-such about God." And I'd think, "No, Moses wrote that because it happened." It makes me wonder if he believes the stories in the Bible are true. Again, this has happened too often, probably a lot more often than 5 or 6 times, because I certainly haven't seen all their videos.
I think in missing the point of Tim's emphasis when it comes to stuff like this, you might be misleading others. When Tim talks about why Moses told a story, the "why" he's addressing is a compositional why-- Tim is already speaking from a place that trusts the Bible and assumes it's historical, so to say "Moses included it 'cuz it happened" would be about as obvious as room temperature, and not particularly insightful. A lot of things that did happen aren't in the Bible, and there's an awful lot of thought that went into how what is in the Bible is arranged. Especially given space constraints and content that seems conspicuous to us, it's really important to grasp that there's significance to everything in the Bible. It all happened, but so did a bunch of other stuff, so these events must be here for a reason, and presented like this for a reason. Unless your key takeaway from the story of Cain & Abel was that "it happened" in which case seek help immediately
Tim said those things regarding absolutely big events that couldn't be left out.
But even if your point is correct, what about BP's pro-LGBT stance and their view that there's no Hell?
@FRN2013 I don’t know if Mackie doesn’t believe hell exists. I just know he doesn’t have the orthodox view of it. Some say he’s an annihilationist, but I’m not sure.
I heard one other sermon from him on hell that basically said he agrees with what C.S. Lewis believes about hell.
The problem I had with this sermon in particular was that he was teaching that hell is here on earth and that man has created it and God hates it. Which, as I explain in my video, I don’t think is biblical.
@@colin_priest I have no problem with annihilationism. They agree that Hell is a real place of torment, and that those who go there have no hope of being saved.
But Mackie's awful views on Hell are quoted in an article called:
Hell needs “reframing” says The Bible Project co-founder
Please search for that.
So you've never studied the original scripture before it was translated? Good to know...
Are the translations we have today unreliable?
Dueteronomy 4:2 is the scripture people teaching the gospel need to adhere to. I have heard so many people twist scripture to push the alphabet agenda its unreal.
Me too. And I feel like with time, it’s only gonna get worse and worse…
How is Mackies description at the beginning of the vid mainstream Christianity?
I have never heard anything like that before
I think it's perfectly defensible as mainstream.
Is it a crime to BE a thief? No. Of course not. It's a crime to steal. Is it a sin to BE gay? No. It's a sin to engage in that conduct. I think that's the distinction that Tim makes.
“Is it a crime to BE a thief? No.”
But it is a crime, not only to steal, but just to COVET. Coveting is sin just as much as stealing.
Jesus also said to even LUST after a person is sin. It’s a sin to commit sexual immorality but it’s also a sin just to think about it and want it.
If coveting is sin and lust is sin, then I also think being gay is sin. Now it’s a different story if a person is gay but has a repentive heart and wants to change, but I’m not sure where we got this idea that feelings aren’t sinful. Of course they are. It’s the heart that God judges, not just actions.
In truth, if I would have encountered this before my current level of openness and understanding, this video would have turned me away further delaying the creation of my relationship with God.
The Bible Project, and maybe even Tim in general as a human, has gently coaxed me into listening to sermons, reviewing my experiences and worldview, and even reading the Scripture myself because I actually WANT to and not because I feel like I have to.
As someone that's calmly and quietly redipping my toes in the pool, so to speak, I chose to watch the vid you made, and as I watched I couldn't help but ask myself... Why are you doing what you are doing? What is your purpose in the act of making this vid? Why are you making a vid on what THEY are doing?
And so then the thought came to me; isn't it your Scripture that says, "(Matthew 7:3 ESV) Why do you see the spec that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"
I understand the argument. "The word is law and messing with the interpretational meaning of Scripture is 'misleading and dangerous!'" But who are you to know what another in the world needs to return to God? How do you know what's best for another? How do you know what's best for you?
Isn't it said in your Scripture that, "(1 Corinthians 12:6 NIV) There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work"?
Why would you believe that harm could be done or that people could be led astray? Where's your faith in God?
Why would you make a video that refutes Tim's work?
Are you not BOTH Christian? Are you not BOTH doing the same work?
I really appreciate you taking the chance of watching my video when you’re at such a pivotal point in your walk with God.
Kudos to you for watching something that you knew would probably challenge you and make you uncomfortable.
I will answer your questions, but I do have a question for you first, if you don’t mind.
My question is: is it wrong for a Christian to disagree with another Christian in a public setting?
If you would answer that by saying no, it’s not wrong for a Christian to disagree with another Christian, then I would have to ask, what’s wrong with me disagreeing with Tim Mackie publicly on UA-cam?
If you say that it IS wrong, then I would have to ask why is it OK for you to think I’m wrong and disagree with me, but I can’t think Tim Mackie is wrong and disagree with him? Why is it OK for you to do that to me, but I can’t do that to Tim Mackie? Do you see the double standard?
Mackie strikes me as a bizarro Jordan Peterson. After watching a bunch of his videos, sermons, and interviews the last few days I'm not sure he believes in God. Or to be more precise, I'm not sure whatever he does believe in and calls "God" is what Christians would consider God.
As someone who isn’t in a pastoral position or impacting the lives of many with the message of the gospel, it’s hard to see you critique someone such as Tim Mackie who’s touching lives of many.
Lowkey sowing seeds of doubt into the lives of many with Tim’s ministry. Fair enough if you were benefitting as much lives as him but cmon mate.
Do you really think you’re doing the lord’s work with this?
I agree with most comments. You take video clips out of context. The lesson about marriage is very clear and does not support same sex marriage.
As for hell: give me verses in the Bible to support your view.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Can you show me where homosexuality fits anywhere into Matthew 19? I agree with a lot of what Dr. Mackie says, but he adds a lot to the text that isn't there. And why does he mention homosexuality, but leave out all other areas of sexual immorality, i.e. pedophiles, fornicators, adulterers, etc?
Tim says, "God did not create hell; we did." But Jesus says, “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" Who prepared the fire? It's not the devil because he is going there for judgment. It's not people because we don't have the power or capability to create such a place. It was God who prepared hell.
I was hesitant to watch this at first, But I'm glad I did.
Thanks for watching 😊
4:16 Actually, no, it doesn't make sense. If the only punishment God metes out is death for any crime, that's not just.
What that is, is Christians competing with each other to virtue signal how faithful they are. It's similar to how you will see Calvinists boast about having a higher view of God than other Christians.
We all know that it isn't just, we just pretend it is because we want to seem like good Christians. Would you consider it perfect justice if the penalty for failing to stop at a red light was the electric chair? Of course you wouldn't. But God's punishment for a child who disrespects his parents is eternal torture and you'll swear up and down that this is perfect justice. Not because you truly think it's just. But because it's God. Calvinists, who conveniently all consider themselves elect and thus exempt from punishment, are constantly droning on about how all humans deserve death and it's just by the mercy of God that some of them are forgiven. Those same Calvinists show their true colors when a child of theirs leaves the church and then they suddenly have a huge problem with their child not being elect. Suddenly they lose their sanctimonious attitude about all humans deserving death.
I wish Christians would stop acting like this, because it opens us up to the charge that the average person on the street is more loving, more merciful, and more just than God, and it thereby turns lost souls away from Christ. Please note that I am not meaning to question The Christian Perspective's faith here - it's just that the "makes sense" clip coming right after saying that God needs to kill sinners in order to be just is a pet peeve of mine. If God has written His law on our hearts and we truly believe that it's perfectly understandable that not finding the evidence for Christianity persuasive means you burn for eternity, then we should also believe that someone who litters should get death by firing squad. After all, that's a far more lenient punishment than Hell. Since no sane person believes that it, it follows that it does NOT make perfect sense that God's justice involves unimaginable suffering for all eternity. It is, rather, something that needs deep thought, teaching, and understanding to come to accept. It is not just self evidently true, and we make Christ look bad when we act like it is.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment, Patrick. So according to the Torah, you would be right that not every single sin is worthy of death, but there are some that are and I, personally, have trouble with them. But I don’t judge God as wrong - I acknowledge that I just don’t understand how holy God truly is.
Let me challenge you with this. Adam and Eve ate a fruit - and the consequence for eating a fruit was spiritual death and eventually physical death. Do you think that punishment fits the crime? We have examples from the OT of a man who was picking up sticks on the sabbath and he was stoned to death. We have another man blaspheme the name of God - also stoned to death. Do you think those punishments aren’t just?
You said, “But God’s punishment for a child who disrespects his parents is eternal torture and you’ll swear up and down that this is perfect justice.” Have you not read, Exodus 21:17, “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death”? Do you not think that’s just?
Paul says, “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Jesus died the death that WE ALL deserve. I don’t believe every sin will be punished the same, but it’s not like there are some individuals out there who’ve only sinned once or twice in their life. We sin every single day. We are storing up more and more wrath every single day, if we are not in Christ (Romans 2).
So I’m gonna stand by my statement that God is perfectly just to condemn anyone to death for their sin. John 3:18, “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
Also not sure why you’re digging at Calvinists and their haughty attitudes. I’m not defending Calvinists in my video. We all need to humbly approach God and His salvation in Christ. I agree with you there.
But thank you for not questioning my faith 😊
Can u post the full sermons by Tim that these r out of?
I put them in the description 🙂
Tim has no urge to give falsified teachings. He has actually very sound doctrine, it is the modern mainstream christianity that has falsified the narrative. For instance hell is a human construct, it didnt exist in biblical times, original word used were hades, sheol, gehenna and valley of hinnom. The second death is eternal punishment, not torment in a hell. God is a consuming fire. 2 thes, talks about the punishment for sin is destruction.
I used to recommend the Bible Project to fellow believers until I heard Tim Mackie on these very issues. Contrary to what some of the recent commentators have said, these are foundational beliefs that I find very disturbing from someone claiming to be a Christian teacher. Well done for posting this video👍
Thank you for the encouragement!!
What did Tim say that wasn’t Biblical?
Tim’s whole approach is that of underplaying the wretchedness of sinful man and the awfulness of eternal hell. He even goes on to imply that hell is here on Earth now and not something that plays out in eternity. As compelling as that argument might sound to those who want to ascribe love and compassion to God, without also ascribing holy righteousness and justness to Him, it flies in the face of Jesus Christ’s own teaching which often refers to the awfulness and despair of hell and why we should seek to avoid heading there at all cost.
Substitutionary atonement is the only way a Holy and Righteous and Just God can let us avoid hell and come into His presence and it cost Him dearly as He had to allow His Son to take our sin on His shoulders and suffer the Wrath of God in our place. Tim hates this idea and fails to see that every sacrifice correctly offered to God in the Old Testament was a fore type of Christ’s death on the cross where He takes our filthy sin and gives us His Righteousness.
Spot on, Simon!
I use to go to his church and Tim is a big proponent of considering if two things are true at once and dont necasaraly oppose eachother but we just aren’t smart enough to understand how they r both true at once.
He is saying that sin is way worse than we usually even consider it to be and goes into detail about how even our thoughts are working against Gods desire to see us flourish in him and enjoy this amazing world he created and doing it while also cultivating loving relationships while treating his image bearers with sacrificial love even while they r hurting us
I have questioned his stance on Hell
I don’t understand how you can not understand that it’s not a sins have homosexual urges. It’s a sin to fantasize about them, and or act upon them.
Your list at the end of adulterers and murderers are people that are acting on those sinful desires. That’s like saying we should throw pedophiles in jail. When the definition of a pedophile is somebody that’s attracted to a minor, not somebody who has molested a minor. Which everyone loves to throw around that word lately now too.
Call that problem is one of the most destructive and disgusting problems that exist in the world as it is this trans. Movement with children but don’t we need to differentiate between Temptations and sinful fantasizing or actions?
Like I said befor, I struggle with the deadly sin of gluttoney and idolizing food over God too much but am I damned for having those urges or should people show me grace and try to b understanding about my struggle
BTW, I think it’s hard to argue that gluttony isn’t the most destruction and rampant sin and comfort in food might b the biggest idol in this country and Satan is trying to normalize it.
The idol of entertainment might b number one. IdK. This country seems to b struggling with a lot of very powerful idols
How come Christians today are okay with talking about homosexual urges and how it’s okay to have them just not act on them, but we don’t do that with any other sexually immoral sin? Like, why doesn’t Tim talk about fornicators who have urges but don’t act on them? Or adulterers or pedophiles? Tim doesn’t say “whether you like grown men or little boys - we’re just all deeply flawed.” Why don’t we hear that from the pulpit these days?
@@colin_priest Tim spoke on that in the sermon. He encouraged people to be celebrate and b open to embracing a life of singleness and praised what a privilige and amazing calling it is and how it might b a good idea for people struggling with homosexuality or just loneliness
@@colin_priest I haven’t been to a church that doesn’t talk about how it’s natural to have sexual urges before marraige and how we need to turn to God to help us through it one way or another. And I have probably been to 20 churches in California and Portland and Idaho ranging from super conservative Calvinist’s to some what Liberal and halfway Charismatic churches. Even my hardcore fire and brimstone strreet preacher buddies from 20 yrs ago that I would hit the streets with talked about premarital sexual urges being normal and it’s not uncommon for people to have all kinds of perverse urges unfortunately but they r all opportunites to turn to God and glorify him by letting him help us win our battle
I am starting to think ur channel is a troll channel or u don’t go to church or u have a very very limited experience in the Christian Church.
I
does that list include pedophiles as well?
This video shows your own ignorance in these issues and feels like you want disagree just to disagree. Your first critique for Tim's view of atonement was not clear and you just declared that he mocks the teachings of the bible with out any clear evidence. Yes, he does present the doctrines quite bluntly but that is the purpose of bible project. It is educational tool for people how aren't christians or don't read commentaries/books of theologians thinking the smallest details in doctrine. So I think that you treat unfairly his teaching. The doctrine of hell is very difficult and diverse. Many christians have very different kind of view of hell. For example I think C.S. Lewis thought in same kind of lines hell being this thing that grows in you (I'm not 100% sure he thought this way). Orthodox christians believe that hell and heaven is like same place and the fire of hell is the holiness of god that people can't stand if they didn't follow Jesus on earth. So my point was don't be so quick judge that his view is wrong and your is right because this specific doctrine is very difficult. Try to ask the deeper questions why does he think in these lines and does he have good reasons to think that way. Usually people how are teaching the Bible for a living have thought the same questions as you have. The critique of his views on homosexuality I can agree in some sense. Yes he doesn't want to just declare that bible doesn't affirm the gay lifestyle and plays around that issue. But I think he is right when he says in christ there isn't these categories. God doesn't sort us in these boxes where we like to put ourselves so if gay is category god doesn't put us in there if we follow him. And I don't think Tim is only one struggling with the conversations around homosexuality. The question of homosexuality is also difficult because the modern concept of sexuality is taught to us in schools and churches but Freud was first how thought that sexuality is part of you in some sense and the power what woke ideology has is frightening. And most of your critique was presenting the other side of coin. Yes the cross is sing of God's wrath but also his love. And Tim didn't define sin as "brokness of people" he said it was one of it's side effects. The Bible project even have a video where they teach what sin mean. (and probably you noticed reading this comment that English isn't my first language. My first language isn't even germanic heritage so if there is some weird miss spellings that is my fault. Hope you can read my message despite bad language)
Thanks for the comment and the view 😊
I liked what you had to say other than your opening line. I spent hours watching Mackie and listening to what people say about his teachings before I made this video. It’s totally fine to disagree with me, but why judge me as ignorant or wanting to disagree just to disagree?
Also, I do explain what substitutionary atonement is. Jesus taking the wrath of God in our place. Jesus is treated as the sinner and we are treated as righteous although we are not. Mackie mocks that idea and says it like Christians who believe that are mislead. But that’s the orthodox Christian view. It’s not my idea or even a new idea. It’s been around since the beginning. “He is the propitiation for our sins.”
One thing I find interesting about the Bible Project is their way of taking a single word from the Bible like “sin” or “Spirit” or “Satan” etc. and stretching it out so much that it almost loses its original intended meaning. I’ve come away more confused on some issues before from watching their videos. And then they get Christians arguing about doctrine because they’re making new ways of interpreting the Bible.
I don’t know. For someone who is so highly exalted as this amazing Bible scholar - he sure tends to muddy the waters on some issues.
@@colin_priest Sorry if I came out harsh but I think I can disagree with you and say that harshly. I still think that you are my brother. I said that you are ignorant because bible project videos are teaching things that almost every denomination can agree with. I said you disagree just for fun of it, because I couldn't seem to find what is the point you are criticizing you didn't show where Tim mocks your view or anything like that you just said that he is wrong. You even said yourself that you disagree with everything mainstream.
I had to watch your video again to make sure I didn't understood you wrong and I came to same conclusion. I can't seem where you disagree with Tim on the atonement, yes he doesn't say so clearly that we also sin against God in the clip you showed but Isn't that obvious that every sin we do against each other is also a violation against God and even though if he didn't present the idea in any of his videos or sermons that isn't still a problem lots of teachers don't explain crucial doctrines ever, but they are still great teachers. If you would be bit chartable to the message he is giving I don't see why his view and your view aren't the same?
How is bible project making new ways of looking the Bible? Yes, I saw the quotation of them saying "We want to change how people read and use the Bible", but many of the bible teachers are saying the same thing and I think their message is that they want people read it and read it in context and think about the wisdom it provides and not taking every thing in the Bible just face value. Like the book of job is one of my favorites. The character and his struggle with God and justice is so interesting and every time I read it or some one teaches about it I learn more. I don't seem to understand this conversation on how people like Michael Heiser, Tim etc are changing how the Bible is read. The Bible wasn't written in English and most of the scriptures are more than 2000 years old. People how have studied the history and the languages of the bible (like Tim) are trying to teach how people originally understood the text so that isn't "a new way" that is the old fashion way and our modern way is the "new way". So he isn't distorting the meaning, he is providing more information to think about.
Every one is prisoner of their own language and culture and so did the people how write the bible. I myself speak Finish as my native language and in English there are words that can't be translated perfectly and vise versa. For example we finish have this weird concept of "Sisu" you could translate it in English as perseverance or bravery depending of the context but it isn't just that it is also means that you are honest and modest and you fight with every thing you got even tough you are going to lose. There have been even studies (I can't provide them because I heard this in my psychology class) where people go study how the native language and fundamental ideas of culture is affecting on cognition and the thinking of people. So my point was people how wrote the Old Testament didn't have concepts of science or Jesus resurrection so their view of the world was very different and to translate text that they wrote and understood isn't easy. And I believe that the Bible is word of god, inherency etc. One theologian said "bible written for you but not to you" and I think that is quite good summary.
Hell is the place for the unrepented sinners who loved sin more than God. Hell is the punishment for sin, not sin. Tim did not specify and rightly divide the Word of Truth. Do not follow him as he will lead you astray.
I think I see his "inclusive posture" towards the LGBTQ community as something attributable to him being under the constant pressure and influence of liberal Oregon. I wouldn't say its "right" or "wrong" - it just kind of is what is. But if he's going to distort or downplay atonement that's a bigger deal to me. Are you sure that's what he's doing? Or are you taking snippets out of context to start arguments in your comments? I listened to his whole sermon that you pulled apart above. He very plainly affirms the biblical view of marriage. But if all you saw were the 60 seconds you clipped out of his talk you might naturally question exactly where he stands. Have you done the same his views with atonement?
Excellent handling of the subject, brother. You were fair and thorough and Biblically on-point. Those with eyes to see, will see. Have a blessed day!
You are obviously someone who has not fully listened to Tim or why he interprets it the way he does. He spent years studying the language to assist his interpretation
I have fully listened to Tim 😊
Watch here: Dear Bible Project Fans...we need to talk
ua-cam.com/video/rEUBVkk1BBs/v-deo.html
Sin isnt bad just because it results in suboptimal conditions or outcomes. Its bad because it is intrinsically devoid of good; it is evil; it is contradictary to the Lord's good nature. That it creates suboptimal outcomes is simply a byproduct of that.
I stumbled across this and found it to be more concerning than any Bible project video. I appreciate your effort, and I don't believe you're being disrespectful, but terms like 'biblical view of atonement,' 'atonement model,' or 'biblically historical view' might come across as manipulative. It's important to remember that while you have a particular perspective, there are multiple atonement models, which is something taught in Bible college 101.
Interestingly, I actually agree with your perspective, but this video, which showcases short clips of sermons and comments through a very Calvinist and reformed Paul Washer-inspired lens, represents just one viewpoint. All three of the topics you mentioned, especially atonement and hell, are subjects of ongoing debate. It's crucial to be cautious about presenting your perspective as the only or the right one. The Pharisees often made this mistake, and they missed the true message of Jesus.
This isn't 'the Christian perspective,' but rather, it's 'your perspective.' I'm not suggesting that truth is relative, but rather that some aspects of the Bible continue to be discussed and debated, leading to different denominations and models. I can see that you're a relatively young Christian, so I understand the enthusiasm and the feeling of knowing everything that often accompanies youth. I don't really know what I'm getting at, but I guess for anyone reading this and considering this guys opinon, be careful. Jesus was so frustrated by legalism and pride and I belive its what is choking the church to death in America especially of course extreme liberalism is as well but this is why some things need to be held at tension.
Hey Steve. I really appreciate this comment. It’s respectful and not emotional or mean or trying to tear me down, which means a lot considering the amount of heat I’ve received from my videos before.
I don’t think you have to worry about warning anyone who watches me to be careful - I have an extremely small UA-cam channel and have close to, if not, zero influence on the internet, so I think we’re okay in that area 😂 😉
I do have a question for you though. You’re associating me with the Pharisees and you called me young, zealous, prideful, legalistic (maybe not directly but along those lines) so my question is, how else can I explain my view without looking like I’m a know-it-all?
Of course I think my position is right and Mackie’s is wrong, so what way can I do that without being labeled a Pharisee?
If a person (not me) has good theology, does that automatically make them Pharisaical? Jesus had perfect theology and debated people all the time - was He wrong to do that? Peter did that. Paul did that. I’m not trying to put myself on the level of those great men, I’m just saying, I get comments like yours a lot and it reminds me of the lyric, “In today’s day, the only heresy is saying that there’s heresy.” It’s like no one can give their thoughts or opinions without being judged as a judgmental bigot.
But then comes the problem where YOU are judging me for being “too judgmental” and prideful, so then does that now make you judgmental and prideful? Aren’t you now the Pharisees as well? Because you are saying how I’m wrong and you’re right, but at the same time, saying that I can’t do that.
I don’t know. Just throwing some thoughts out there. I don’t want to come off as arrogant at all. I want to be accurate to the truth and be passionate about it, but all in the love of Christ and for the benefit of His Church. That’s my goal at least. I know I will fall short often. Keep me in prayer if you remember.
Also, you called me young but, not for nothing, I am the same age as Jesus when He rose from the dead 😉
@@colin_priest great response. Look I don't normally comment on UA-cam videos and am about to launch my own content on a channel. So I should try to be kinder. You are doing a good job. We need more Christian perspectives online. Your questions to me are valid, am I being judgemental? Maybe and fair point. I don't have much more to say, cause you have impressed me with you kind reply, to my sarcastic tired comment :). I would just encourage you to be careful and read wider. The Americanized reformed tradition has a habit of living in a bubble. It's views on Hell, Atonement etc are not simply scriptural but also tied up with their own tradition and own way of reading the Bible, or should I say lens in which they put in front of them as they read the Bible. I love good theology but what they and maybe you are presenting, is "a" theology but just because it's within your theological bubble doesn't mean it's good or correct. A great way to think about this, is take Tim Mackie Bible project, the dudes a Hebrew scholar, not that this makes him right but do you not think he knows the passages you have spoken about, yet he has come up with a different theological viewpoint around hell and atonement. Now could he be wrong absolutely a possibility but it's not like he doesn't know what he is talking about haha. I'm noticing a trend lately of a lot of reformed speakers are getting upset about Bible project and it's funny, because the reformed people would often go after more charismatic movements previously, which is low hanging fruit and their argument would be "well we just are Bible people and your not". The mirror or perhaps the healthy challenge when going after the Bible project, is they are not low hanging fruit. They are Bible people, possibly more Bible people, after all they look at the Bible with a Hebrew and Jewish lens, a lens in which Jesus used and the authors. Not a John piper, John Calvin, Paul washer etc lens. This is going to be a big deal in the future. As it's not as simple as going to "just read the Bible"...... Now all that said. Let me be clear there are still essential truths about Jesus and we know him through His word, I just think we should be very careful at making non essential theologly certain. Can we debate them! Yeh love that! Can we explore them! Yes love that! Should we be saying our view on a highly debated theological position is 100% correct because we just read the Bible plainly... Come on.. we need to develop deeper discourse than that.
Did the Apostles also drink God’s wrath? Matthew 20:22-23
They endured physical persecution, but no, all the sin of mankind was not put on them like it was with Jesus.
Do you think the apostles endured the same thing Jesus did when He was flogged and put on the cross?
@@colin_priest no. That’s why I don’t think it’s the same cup referenced in Jeremiah & Revelation.
Hmmm interesting. What are your thoughts then?
Also I appreciate you watching and commenting 😊
Work out Your Salvation
In Fear and Trembling.
About hell being a place of never-ending torment...is this not infinitely worse than what Jesus had to suffer for mankind? If so, then can you claim that he took our punishment upon himself?
that's actually a REALLY good question. I'm trying to find a clip for you from Paul Washer that explains it well. But a big part of it is Jesus being "the fullness of deity." Because Jesus's worth is equal to God's - He is able to physically suffer for only a few hours on a cross, but at the same time, spiritually suffer for eternity for each and every person who will put their faith in Him. I'm not sure how exactly, but I believe He did it. It's because His worth is so much more infinitely valuable than ours that He is able to accomplish something like that.
Edit: I found the video ua-cam.com/video/ID9XVm6Kvl8/v-deo.html
I think we have to examine and understand God and his attributes in order to understand what you're asking.
God (his attributes and his existence) is infinite. He is not bound by space and time. His wrath is an expression of his anger toward sin. Hell, however is the place where those who sin and reject him will experience his wrath eternally. God doesn't have to send a person, in this case Christ, to Hell in order to pour out his wrath on them. We tend to conflate Hell with God's wrath because the doctrines of both have been mishandled.
God's wrath has always and will always burn(ed) towards unrighteousness. So to experience his wrath, either for a millisecond or an eternity, is to drink the entire cup. Why? Because He and His attributes are infinite and there are no half measures when it comes to the execution of his judgement towards sin.
Christ experienced God's full wrath on the cross, even if the entire ordeal "only" took a few hours up until the point where the Lord willingly gave up his life.
So, it's not that Hell is an infinitely worse punishment. It's that Hell is an infinite punishment in terms of time insofar as we understand it. This is why the one man, Jesus, could attone for the sins of all who would believe. He took it all upon himself because again, with God, its all ot nothing. And whether he pours out his wrath on one man or twenty, for one minute or twenty million, we can't even begin to measure it.
@homo3sexual feminine biological mal3 whistleblower correction... he IS God.
@homo3sexual feminine biological mal3 whistleblower also, he wasn't "killed" per se... he handed himself over, was crucified and gave up his own life so that yours could be saved.
@@colin_priest Nah, that Washer video is about Christ's immeasurable worth-which is clearly taught in scripture.
Can you support your notion here from a scriptural basis? It sounds nice, but not scriptural.
In NEW Testament (except in Romans), we won't find about Heaven or Hell but Salvation and kingdom of God on Earth. - (N.T. Wright).
If that’s what N.T. Wright said, then I don’t agree with him
You know, when you look at the center of all of those points they get wrong, humans are always at the center. Never God. This is at the base of all sin and is pretty serious.
Why are you doing this?
They're using their own way to share the good news...Yeah sometimes they make mistakes,but
Only before God do they stand guilty or not!
You're not judging them,you're discouraging those who are been encouraged by the Bible project
I end my video by saying “Take the good from the Bible Project, but just be discerning.”
If I was wrong or off about something and I had a significant influence in the world - I would want to made aware
I definitely have a problem with that myself
Thanks bro =)
There's a couple problems with your own reading too, though. Not the least of which is that you are interpreting God's actions Heteronomically rather than theonomically. God is not some other actor in the world that does stuff like you and I, such that when scripture says 'God cursed Adam', we can't really say much about the mechanism by which that curse happens. Was it a consequence of Adam and Eve's rebellion, a consequence that is built into God's world as a nature of it being his world within which we move and have or being, or is it an arbitrary and capricious or miraculous one-time intervention. It honestly isn't clear... but just assuming this throughout scripture is a big part of the view of God that makes Him appear to others less like the God of the bible and more like the Pagan Gods... an actor in the world... among others, that wants control over us. It makes him just one would-be lord of human affairs, rather than the integrated creator of all while wonderously 'existing' every where and every time. I know for sure that this is wrong (and dangerous)... orders of magnitude more dangerous than getting the metaphysics of hell subtly wrong.
Moreover, as others have noted, you are basically taking one view of atonement as true. Now, that's fine and all... but it is also so deeply partisan and one-dimensional as to be incompatible with *any* ecumenical teaching like the Bible Project or any other more catholic (small-c) 'mere Christianity' approach. Also, the stuff about sexuality is just straight up out-of-context, incompatible with Tim's statements many other places, and is really telling us more about you than your subject. Bad call there.
Thanks for thoughtful comment! I appreciate everything you wrote, but unfortunately I cannot respond to all of it.
One thing I would like to ask, since no one can really answer this, but where does Jesus mention homosexuality in Matthew 19?
And if you can find it, can you also explain to me why Tim mentions those who struggle with homosexuality and the need to be single, but why he doesn’t mention MAPs (minor attraction persons)?
Tim Mackie will lead homosexuals to hell with his comments! They are not based on scriptural truth! His talk about hell is also very scary. I wish Mr Priest would be a little more serious with the topic no need for the weird voices ect . This is serious stuff! I am VERY grateful for his doing this video though it is very important!
Here is a more recent/ serious take on the Bible Project: ua-cam.com/video/rEUBVkk1BBs/v-deo.htmlsi=-qtds25Aju3IBACD
thank you for watching 😊
@@colin_priest No you did NOT take Tim out of context! The key point I believe is that he said Gays should have no shame!! Why would he say that? All sin is shameful! If I sin by messing around in my marriage this is shameful ALL SIN IS SHAMEFUL! He is leading homosexuals to hell saying that they don’t need to have shame! I’m absolutely grieved by the comments on your video! 🥺 I love my friends who were attracted to the same sex but they died to their flesh and eventually got married. I even have a friend who is not a Christian and is gay I so badly want her to change and come to Jesus! How could Christians think JESUS would condone the homosexual lifestyle? If we come to Him we must repent of our old lifestyle! Die to our flesh and SELF!! This passage below shows that we REALLY NEED TO SHAPE UP AND DO THINGS GODS WAY NOT OUR WAY 🥺🙏🏽
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.”
2 Peter 3:9-11, 13-14 NIV
Spotless and blameless!!
Your understanding of the Bible lacks historical and cultural context, including the meanings of the Greek and Hebrew words used. This (your) face-value reading of the Bible is dangerous.
Here's the full video of Tim's message on Marriage: ua-cam.com/video/1xvt6AMaBow/v-deo.html
Yep I have it linked right in the description 😊
Did you watch the full video? I listened to Tim's whole video, and he concludes that marriage is between one man and one woman, and he affirms that the two genders are male and female. He says that someone who identifies as gay should live a celibate lifestyle. It seems like he takes the opinion that some people can't help their attraction to the same gender, but if they are living as Christians, they should not act on those impulses. @@colin_priest
I did watch the whole video. A couple times actually. I agree with his definition of marriage, but I don’t agree with him incorporating homosexuality into Matthew 19 as if Jesus had gay eunuchs in mind when he was teaching this lesson.
Mackie says things like “whether you’re gay or whether you’re straight - it doesn’t matter.” But it does matter. One is sinful and one is not.
He also quotes Galatians 3:28 but then adds the category of “gay or straight” as if that’s just something else that can be added to the list. That’s borderline blasphemy - at best. Or he’s just extremely careless in what he’s saying (which I’m sure he is very well aware of what he is saying - he’s a brilliant guy).
But also - what about minor attracted people? Why doesn’t Mackie include those who struggle with wanting to have sex with children? He’s okay with incorporating those who want to have sex with same gender, but what about every other kind of sexual immorality? Why is he favoring the homosexual?
I believe it’s because he has let the culture influence his mindset. We all know (at least for now) that pedophilia is wrong, but LGBTQ+ is more of a gray area, so that’s why he is muddying the waters a bit on this topic. He is careful to not say “it’s okay” but he’s also careful not to condemn it in his sermon. And when he does condemn it - it’s more along the lines of “what are all flawed and all need Jesus.” He does it vaguely, which is fine and true, but idk. Something about the way he talks about it is concerning to me.
But I appreciate you responding to me with respect 😊
I'm so sad.. I love watching the bible project before studying each book. My heart is sagging
Like I said at the end of my video, just be discerning when you use their work. I’m not saying the Bible Project is completely heretical and should avoided at all costs. In fact, I have benefitted from their stuff myself. But I am weary because of what they teach on the atonement, hell, and muddying the waters on homosexuality.
Also, their definition of how the Bible is all about “restoring the world back to the partnership we had with God” is a little strange to me. The Bible is all about God receiving glory through the work of Christ on the cross, not about our partnership with God.
BUT definitely don’t stop studying the Bible! That’s wondering that you’re doing that! As long as you’re in prayer and guided by the Holy Spirit, you will know whenever the Bible Project or any teaching tool is off - including me! Test all things by Scripture! When/ if something feels off or seems like it doesn’t fit with the text, test it and make sure.
God bless 🙂
@@colin_priest it shows how strong the pull is for the flesh, that you would twist scripture and all traditional teachings throughout history to come up w something that jives with your flesh.
@@colin_priest If I may interject again :) Seriously, loved your video and thoughts! I think you are doing a great job! I think “God receiving glory through the work of Christ on the cross” and “restoring the world back to the partnership we had with God” are, in ways, not very far off from each other. Absolutely it is God receding glory through the work of Christ. But what did that work accomplish? Many things, but one of the main ones dear to God’s heart is the restoration of His climatic creation: humanity. Maybe I could have worded this better, but I guess my point is those two definition are not opposing each other, but if anything are leaves on the same branch
Seriously? Is this just click-bait? While Mr. Mackie has a reflective nuanced approach to the traditional subjects you mention, you must be REALLY hard pressed to make him out to be a heretic. Honestly, I appreciate genuine thorough cross examination, but just because someone sees the SAME Scriptures you cite differently doesn't mean he is necessarily got it 'all wrong.' This kind of foolishness has the church so fragmented throughout history; sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for bad reasons. There different atonement THEORIES held by ardent evangelical scholars gobally. True, everyone should speak their convictions and DIALOGUE if it is in the interest of Truth, being faithful to the Scriptures and Jesus. I have been a serious student of Scripture for 44 years now, and I will tell you now, my only regret is I was not given the opportunity within my Christian subculture to be exposed to these alternative ideas. Frankly, I found many of these ideas through my own rogue studies, and came to similar convictions on many topics. Instead of the knee-jerk rush to "red flag" everything that sounded different, I learned as James said: "Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters! Let every person be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger. For human anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness." Zeal for one's convictions is a good thing, but it shouldn't censor other believers who have arrived at different thoughtful convictions on the same topic. God gave us the Scriptures, not a book on 'systematic theology.' The Bible isn't a list of 'proof texts' for our constructs; it IS God's Word, not 'ours' in that sense.
I am glad there are different 'harmonics' in the Faith today, I believe I would have been better helped along my own growth, and a more helpful witness to the Lord Jesus earlier. Some deconstruction is good, if it is preparing our lives for RECONSTRUCTION "in the image of God," rather than our own preferred camp. Blessings. I believe you have talent. Now, according to 2 Peter, add a little more self-skepticism to your skepticisms, and self-suspicion to your suspicions, and do due diligence with brotherly kindness. In the discipleship school of Jesus we must all undergo discipline ourselves, because He loves us. We ought so love one another. I hear very little charity in your criticism. It seems pretty plain to me you desire power to tarnish another's reputation. Do you honestly think he doesn't believe in atonement? And the statements you pulled from his lecture on a specific topic, were you even trying to make sure what his comprehensive view is on these topics, or are you just quote-mining? It is hard to take your criticism seriously. I think criticism can be helpful, but we should discern what is good from what is evil. So far, I haven't heard good sound criticism from you.
hey man. Thanks for watching and I appreciate the comment. I won’t be able to respond to everything, but I do wanna reply to you saying, “you must be REALLY hard pressed to make him out to be a heretic.”
I’m not sure if you watched my entire video, but I never once call Dr. Mackie a heretic. I have some concerns with his theology and I made a video about it. In my video, I actually highlight some of the good aspects of the Bible project, as well, being that I’m trying to be as fair as possible in my critique of his teachings.
But I think his view of the atonement and hell are wrong and the way he exegetes Matthew 19 by including homosexuality also seems wrong to me. Am I not allowed to share my thoughts and concerns about someone who has such a HUGE influence in Christianity today?
And if I’m not allowed to express my concerns - why is it that everyone else is allowed to tell me how I’m wrong but I can’t say why I think Mackie is wrong? Isn’t that a double standard? 🤷♂️
God bless
Agree. I watched Bible project and I could sense something was wrong after watching his overview of Genesis. He characterizes the patriarchs as sinful and points out everything they did wrong and no mention of their great faith. As you keep watching Bible project you may continue to notice there is something off.
Later I met someone from Tim Mackeys home church, who I knew for some time. They are so deceived under this teaching. It is total conformity to the world while thinking they are saved because of their false religion
Ok, adding to or changing scripture is accursed Galations 1:8,9 & the last 2 verses in Revelations 22:18,19... sorrry Tim Mackie. ur doomed to Hell unless u repent.
they did slowly indoctrinate into the video clip...just look at the main character (narrator) from Intro to the Bible... male character in the long dress....
You equate “gay” with engaging in a homosexual lifestyle or activity, and then you project this definition into Tim.
Tim seems to equate “gay” with orientation. That is, an attraction towards the same sex. If we can accept that having an attraction is not the same as engaging in an action or lifestyle, we can understand that Tim is not affirming a homosexual lifestyle. This is why affirming singleness is so important. It affirms the dignity of a human person, and shows them a way where they can give give glory to God and live a fulfilling life.
I’m not a fan of your criticism videos. They are needlessly divisive and they revolve around you uncharitably interpreting the other person.
No bueno, my guy
Again, I really appreciate your comments and your feedback, but then you say that I’m being unnecessarily divisive and I don’t get it.
I think I’m pretty clear in my video that my biggest problems with Tim when he talks about homosexuality, especially when he’s exegeting the text in Matthew, is that he’s adding this new way of interpreting the text that would’ve never existed even 100 years ago. He talks about having homosexual feelings, but being called to be single like a eunuch as if Jesus had that in mind when He was talking about marriage, divorce and singleness. That would’ve never even entered Jesus‘s mind as an option. But you’re right that Tim‘s main point that you can be single and glorify God is a great take away from the sermon!
And then, Tim, again, is pretty sloppy and yet very careful with how he talks about homosexuality in the sermon. He even adds to Scripture at one point, which is just baffling to me. Now he wouldn’t say that he’s adding to Scripture, but he took a verse from Galatians, and then added another category to it to make his point, which is just very clumsy and dangerous in my opinion.
But here’s the biggest kicker to me is that we would never talk this clumsy about any other sin like we do when it comes to homosexuality. Imagine if Tim was trying to defend being single, but being attracted to children. Or imagine if he said “there is no male or female, slave nor free, Greek or Jew, or heterosexuals nor minor-attracted-persons, but we’re all deeply flawed and in need of Christ.”
That would never fly. And it’s so obvious because pedophilia so obviously wrong, but now we live in a culture that’s so accepting of homosexuality that the church is starting to compromise its position to the point where it’s saying that it’s OK to have the feelings as long as you’re not acting on them. Which, not only does the Bible not say that, but it actually says the opposite.
Jesus says to even LUST is sin - whether you’re straight or gay. So the feeling itself is wrong and you don’t even have to act on it. In the Ten Commandments, it’s a sin to steal, but it’s also a sin to just covet. Just wanting something that’s not yours is wrong. Again, condemning the desire with no action needed.
I have nothing against Dr. Mackie and I do like some of the Bible Project videos. I’m not trying to cause division for the sake of division, but for the sake of not compromising Scripture or caving to the culture. I hope you can see my heart behind this.
God bless
@@colin_priest Fundamentally, our battle is not of flesh and blood, but principalities and powers of this world. Every great prophet, apostle, and Jesus Himself directly interacted with the culture in which they were apart. Issues of homosexuality, identity, meaning, and materialism are a great stumbling block to many in the western world. You must engage the people where they are and show them a way out of the predicaments that they are in. Tim is doing a great job on this front and is leading many to Christ.
If you’ve ever done missionary work, or engaged with cultures that are different then your own, you would know that you must adjust the delivery while still maintaining the essential message in order to meet the people where they are in their context and show them a way out through Jesus Christ.
You’re entirely ignoring the context in which Tim is working, and attacking him because his language didn’t align with how you speak within your own community. This is near sighted.
Tim is not being sloppy in his language. He is being intentional. We all know that many Christian’s are falling to the demands of the culture war. But you lack discernment to distinguish between compassion to a group of people in a particular context and giving ground to the desires that cultures demands at large. There is no evidence that Tim is doing the latter. You are projecting this view onto him based on your own personal experiences.
Hey man, I’m reformed. I get it. “Sinners in the hands of an angry God”. But at the end of the day, anger and wrath only convicts. You need compassion and grace to save. Let us temper anger with mercy. And wrath with compassion. People need salvation, but they also have immediate needs that also need to be addressed.
Let us pray for the heart and desire to address both needs
So you watch “the Boys” which is so sexually explicit it has porn all throughout. You judge Mackie for not condemning homosexuals, but yet commit heterosexual adultery in your heart watching this show, and even put a clip of it in your video. How can you be such a hypocrite?
I have no idea what “the Boys” is. Never seen it. I use getyarn.io to get my clips.
You take things out of context. Watch all of it not.just part when he's basically playing devils advocate or being cynical
I address this very thing in this video!
Dear Bible Project Fans...we need to talk
ua-cam.com/video/rEUBVkk1BBs/v-deo.html
God bless 😊
Yes, thank u for this.. I admit, I luv the explanation & the art ..but man, his theology just messed it up. Also, hell here on earth, sounds too much like jehovah witness theology 🤨🤨🤨
Do better research
What did I say that was wrong?
He mustnt be the only source of your bible knowledge but one of the ppl u listen to
Can you please stop the music in the background and just talk, point out facts/scriptures to back up your opinions? I had to stop watching.
Yeah I’ve been cutting back lately. Sorry it was too much!
You are not representing Tim's perspective accurately. Is this on purpose to get views? Or are genuinely unclear, uncertain of what he is saying?
I love the Bible Project. This channel doesn’t speak for all of Christianity. For instance penal substitutionary atonement and Cristus Victor are both Christian perspectives, but don’t line up with each other. Also I think LGBTQ people are created by God as they are. Many minority groups are created. They won’t always be accepted by people in authority, but God made them in His image too. Read “Repenting the Sin of Exclusion” if you want to read more of why I believe this. It’s on Medium.
what is this video? it's as if you don't actually know tim. you are being wise in your own eyes
“Being wise in my own eyes” is exactly the exact opposite of what I’m trying to do. I want take everything and compare it to Scripture. Tim Mackie said some things, important things, that go contrary to the Bible, so I wanted to address it so that people can grow in deeper knowledge and relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ
I watched lots of the bible project and after every video i can sense something is off, they are using their intellect to translate things to worldly perspective which surely is not glorifying to God.
Their wrong definition of hell and stuffs..now those are alarming...
Is he a progressive Christian?
Hmmmm good question. How do you define progressive Christian? Because I feel like that term has a wide range of meaning.
I don’t think someone would necessarily label him as “progressive” but he definitely holds to a few non-traditional, orthodox views of Christianity i.e, the atonement, hell, and whatever his stance is on homosexuality (because it’s very up in the air depending on who you ask).
So much wrong with your approach here. You do a pretty great job of misrepresenting the BibleProject.
I appreciate the feedback. I’m all for someone disagreeing with me, but just so you know, one thing I make sure before posting a video is that I’m representing whoever I’m talking about accurately.
It’s cool if you don’t like what I’m saying, but it’s different when you say that I’m “misrepresenting” someone when I try my best not to.
@@colin_priest I appreciate the fact that you do not intend to misrepresent the BibleProject... yet, you are. Start with learning their approach to the Bible by listening to their "Paradigm" series on their podcast.
You should make videos about being careful with John MacArthur teaching because MacArthur says the blood of Jesus does not save. Nope. You would never do that because you don’t want to make MacArthur look bad like you’re trying to do with Tim Mackie. From what I’ve heard so far Tim is a better teacher than you MacArthur, and Paul washer put together. Plus Tim doesn’t go around trying to make other Christians look bad. That can be a huge stumble rock for others. Think about that.
It will never cease to amaze me just how defensive people get over Tim Mackie. I had no earthly idea. You would think I made a 20 minute video just completely bashing the guy by the way some people respond lol
Can you send me the link where John MacArthur says that the blood of Jesus does not save? Also, I don’t agree with everything MacArthur teaches. I don’t agree with dispensational premillennialism, so if I ever did a video on eschatology, I would disagree with him. And even his stance on the gifts for today I don’t completely agree with him. So I’m not sure why you would assume I would never make a video disagreeing with him?
And yeah, I disagree with Mackie’s views on the atonement, hell, and homosexuality (whatever his view is I’m not exactly sure), and so does 2,000 years of orthodox Christianity. So I made a video on it. I’m not bashing Mackie and I didn’t even call him a false teacher. He may tread the line of what false teachers do with how he talks about homosexuality IN MY OPINION, but I don’t tell people not to listen to him. I said good things about the Bible Project in the beginning of my video.
The atonement bothers me most because the gospel is no longer about Jesus satisfying God’s wrath on our behalf and offering us His righteousness, so we can stand blameless before God. Yeah, I think that’s pretty fundamental to Christian doctrine and the gospel message, so obviously I’m gonna say something. And I wouldn’t disagree with Washer or MacArthur because we all agree on that.
You said Tim doesn’t go around making other Christians look bad, but some of his followers most certainly do. The amount of judgment and lack of love I have felt from them on this channel - it’s very disheartening. I feel like what I said in my video does not warrant the kind of response I’m getting from them. If I were a jerk or talked harshly about Mackie - I would get it, but that’s not even what I did.
@@colin_priest
ua-cam.com/video/rE6JPy75BmE/v-deo.htmlsi=f0a02YvY93_asdlx
@@colin_priest
See time stamp 1:31. He says we are not saved by His blood
@@colin_priest
You thumbnail on this video says it all. Make a video about MacArthur with a thumbnail about “Jesus blood does not save ?” You would never do that to MacArthur.
So you didn’t even watch my video?
This video reflects such a low resolution understanding of the Bible and the GOOD.. news of Jesus. Completely misrepresented Tim in this video and taking what he is saying out of context.
Anyone that has ears to hear I’d recommend looking up Shane Willard and watching his videos for more clarity on these topics. (The wrath of God would be a good place to start)
Hi Adam, thanks for the view and the comment. I appreciate it.
Can you show me where I’m misrepresenting Tim and taking what he’s saying out of context? One thing I try very hard to do is represent another person’s position accurately, so if I have not done that, let me know where.
I have included Tim’s sermons in the description if you need to listen to them again. I’ve listened to all 3 of them among others in prepping for this video. Thanks!
the one about marriage and sex. He’s not condoning the actions of engaging in sexual activity outside the walls of marriage. He simply making a point that you can have a meaningful life and be single your whole life. This isn’t a crazy viewpoint. Paul lived his life out like that.
Sin is separation from God, and that it’s self is the wrath of God. That it’s self is the punishment. The consequences.
God didn’t crucify Jesus, we did.
Would encourage you to look up Shane Willard. You say you appreciate my view point. But do you respect it? Have you taken the time to look up the video? Have you had the humility to accept the possibility that you might have something wrong?
As for his video on hell, hell is something that we have created. Sin did create hell. If you’re missing the mark which is Heaven. You’re gonna hit hell.
When God created the world, I don’t remember him in the seven days creating hell.
People are suffering hell on earth.
And yes, there will be people suffering in hell after we die .
You’re taking what he’s saying out of context . If you watch his whole video on hell, he’s not saying that there’s not a hell in the time when there is the new heavens and the new earth.
You’re so patronising in your video . “No, my friend. Your close, but you’re wrong.” you’re so sure that your perspective is the right one. Have some humility. You explained Tim professional background at the beginning of the video. What background do you have? Do you know Hebrew and Greek? Have you studied ancient Jewish culture? Or do you not want to put in the hard work to gain some credibility to what you’re saying?
“Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.”
James 3:1 ESV
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment
“the one about marriage and sex. He's not condoning the actions of engaging in sexual activity outside the walls of marriage.”
I never said he’s not condoning it. In fact, I say in my video how Tim is careful not to say whether it’s sinful or not. But it’s how he talks about homosexuality that’s concerning. He says, “sexual orientation doesn’t matter. He’s calling me to not have sex. With people of the opposite gender or the same gender. He doesn’t highlight one as more important than the other.” The reason Jesus doesn’t highlight one more than the other in the sermon on the Mount is because homosexuality is wrong. It’s not even an option. It wouldn’t even have crossed Jesus mind to mention gay eunuchs.
But while we’re on that topic, why doesn’t Jesus mention the pedophile? What about those who are attracted to little boys or little girls? Is Jesus calling them to be single as well? Tim Mackie says, “In Messiah Jesus there’s no male no female, no slave or free, no Jew or non Jew, not gay no straight…” but he leaves out the pedophile, the adulterer, and the fornicator. Interesting that he focuses on homosexuality specifically.
“God didn’t crucify Jesus, we did.” It says in Isaiah 53:10, “And it please the Lord to crush Him.” God was active in punishing Jesus.
“Sin did create hell.” No, God prepared hell for the devil and his angels. Hell is God’s righteous response to wickedness. Amazing to think that our sin and create a place of eternal fire, eternal darkness, where the worm does not die, etc. Our sin sends us there, but God definitely created hell. God also didn’t create the heavenly mansions when He created the heavens and the earth. Just like Jesus is preparing a place for believers, hell is prepared for unbelievers.
It’s also just a little ironic how you tell me to have humility because I think I’m so right…but you also think you’re so right and telling me how I’m wrong. Are you not being humble? Why is it okay for you to tell me where I’m wrong but I can’t say where I believe Mackie is wrong? That’s a double standard.
Lastly, I have not looked up Shane Willard yet. My apologies. If I had to watch everything that everyone recommends me, I wouldn’t have to time to eat, work, and be with my family because it’s just not possible. But hopefully one day I’ll find time to do so!
God bless
@@colin_priest you talk about humility, I’m not the one spreading fear on UA-cam. I’m humble enough to know that I might not know the truth. That’s why I don’t claim I do and post it on UA-cam. You just took everything I said out of context and you clearly don’t have ears to hear. I can love and respect you as a brother in Christ but just respect people perspectives and interpretations.
Jesus is lord and he rose from the died and everyone should seek to have a relationship with him. Love God and love your neighbour.
Spread that message. If you want to spread anything else. keep this in mind.
“Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.”
James 3:1 ESV
“but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.”
James 3:8 ESV
Ive always felt iffy about their emphasis on making a new eden
I love the fact that “Jake from Farm State” exists and that he commented on my channel 👍🏻
Just wondering how you feel you have a handle on the Christian perspective over and above others?
Brian, how am I hating or mocking? If anything, I mock my own channel in this video, but I never mock the Bible Project or Tim Mackie.
Talking about someone is wrong? So was it wrong when you said, “Christian Perspective is hatred, mockery…” about me? Or was that okay for you to do, but I can’t?
Slandering my channel by calling it “hatred and mockery” when you have no evidence is obeying the Lord? Interesting…I guess we have different definitions of obeying the Lord
@Brian4Jesus you can judge my intentions all you want - my conscience is clear before God.
I do not hate Mackie or Anthony. I have concerns and I talked about them. And I did it with respect and out of love and concern for those they influence (and for them if they were to ever watch my videos, which I doubt.)
It’s definitely of Jesus to confront false teaching. Paul says to do the same.
Again, you’re calling me out because you think my teaching is wrong, and for some reason, it’s okay when you do it, but not when I do 🤷♂️ (that’s also known as hypocrisy)
Lets see, Tim Mackie or Voddie Baucham? Umm, I think I will take Voddie Baucham. Couldnt listen to Mackie for more than five minutes.
I think we are in the age before the great deception. I think people are truly offended by the God of the Bible-so they make a false image and preach that. I think we should approach these issues in love. I think you were very balanced with your presentation.
I really appreciate this comment. I have had very similar thoughts as you before…
Ya dig Calvin?
I don’t know too much of his work to be honest but I do adhere to a lot of Reformed Theology
@@colin_priest and are you open to being wrong or have you got it all biblically 💯%(theologically) on lock?
I’m pretty confident in my position, but if I am wrong biblically, I would want to be corrected
So N.T. Wright?
Thanks!
Thank you!
I don’t think it is healthy for you to keep making these kinds of videos, you are allowing the devil to work through you. If you truly care for the lost then make videos about sharing the gospel. You sound like a jealous guy. Tim surely is not perfect but you attacking someone who has not done anything against you is very toxic. You seem to care more about fighting and rebuking teachers than sharing the gospel. If you see that that person is doing more good then leave them and just focus on doing your thing for the Lord. In the end God is the only one who can save.
“You seem to care more about fighting and rebuking teachers than sharing the gospel.”
That sentence alone shows me that you’re not familiar with my channel and probably only saw this one video. So here are 4 videos of me sharing the gospel with the lost:
Afraid to talk to Jehovah’s Witnesses? | This Could Help!
ua-cam.com/video/BYhOzc9hdvg/v-deo.html
"I have my faults, but I'm still a GOOD PERSON"
ua-cam.com/video/L5y_ntZ1k7Y/v-deo.html
I FAILED at Witnessing to a Transgender | What I Learned and How It Can Help You
ua-cam.com/video/SexwYvmiRfs/v-deo.html
Christian attends Pride Parade in New York | Street Evangelism
ua-cam.com/video/3igZQwgWjvo/v-deo.html
I know it’s easier to write a “toxic” comment against me telling me how toxic I am rather than seeing what other material I have out there, but I hope you prove me wrong and see I’m much more about evangelism, theology, and apologetics and not just “allowing the devil to work through” me.
God bless
@@colin_priest ops I am sorry but it is then a lesson that a video like this with an agenda of attacking someone who has not done anything against you but only trying to share God’s word can be misleading and cause other people to sin. Why do we have to make a content like this? If you are brothered about his content then reach out to him I am sure it will be easier for you. Making these kind of videos only divides people.
@hectorjaylopez6450 If I may defend myself once more, I am not attacking Tim. I get accused of this but I don’t know if anything I said warrants such a heavy accusation.
I believe Tim is wrong on some pretty important doctrinal points, especially his muddying of homosexuality in such a day and age as this, so am I not allowed to say something about it?
Let’s take your comment for instance. You think I’m wrong and you have no problem saying so. I think Tim is wrong, but for some reason, if I say something, it’s considered “attacking” and “divisive.” But what about your comments to me? Are they considered “attacking” and “divisive?” If not, why are you allowed to say why you think I’m wrong, but I’m not allowed to say why I think Tim is wrong? That’s a double standard, my friend.
Tim is trying to fit in with the world. He is a weirdo
Tim lies. So sad, for somewhat who initiates and runs the Bible Project, his twisting the Bible verses is so wrong.
My first contact with Tim was a series on Matthew he did many years ago when he was a teacher. I liked it quite a bit and so I looked for something more recent of his to watch, and I ended up watching the same video on Hell that was reacted to here, and that was the last thing I ever watched of his. It seems that as Tim got more praise and more popular it went to his head and he felt like he no longer had to pay attention to what scripture said, he figured he could just make it up as he went along. I am 100% sure if Tim were entering Bible college with the same attitudes he has today that he would flunk out in short order.
It’s just strange to me because he knows the language AND the Bible so well, so I don’t get why he is adding his own interpretation to the text…
just because you cant understand the depth of a lesson.... you decide to spread lies and false doctrine? you are gonna pay a heavy price...
What lie am I spreading? What false doctrine am I teaching?
If you’re able to show me and if you’re right, I will recant.