M18 vs. Glock 19: USMC Then and Now
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- A few years ago, the Corps acquired some Glock 19 pistols for issue to certain Marines. Since the new M18 is going to be replacing those Glocks, I thought this comparison was appropriate.
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/ @hrfunk
Great Video! As a gun smith, glocks are a joy to work on because they are just so simple and have less parts to fail. The aftermarket world makes everything for glocks. I really want to like the M17/18, however I would have to buy an aftermarket trigger and frame module. I have tried several Sig M17/18 triggers and they seem way too spongey. I actually wish I could check the trigger on that specific one that you are reviewing because I believe you definitely know your your triggers and perhaps all of the ones I have tried have been an older version or something was just fishy with them because honestly they were horrible. I'm sure the one in your hand is probably much better than the ones I have tried or you would have mentioned how sloppy it was. Admittedly the Glock triggers are not amazing but they do tend to get a bit better with Wear. I find the Gen 5 triggers to be pretty decent for an EDC gun. The reset is pretty good IMHO. It all really comes down to what one would be able to trust their life with for me I can trust my life with the sigs that I own but I do not trust the P320 in any version nor do I trust the 365 in any version. Someday I hope that will change because I am a SIG fan. It's weird about Glocks though I once was a huge hater and did not want anything to do with a Glock ever. Most all of my friends shot Glocks and I never understood why until I finally just assumed that maybe they knew something that I didn't and so I broke down and went out and bought my first 19. I held in my hand for most the day. I tried every backstrap option and eventually just pulled them all off and threw them back in the box. I put in a snap cap and dry fired for a few hours. I practiced my draw and failure drills. Sometime during that next day of fiddling with my glock I realized that it was more comfortable then I initially thought and realized that the grip angle wasn't really that big of a deal anymore. So I went to the range and shot 300 or so rounds. I was quite surprised at the accuracy and realize that I could hit anything with that little bugger. Those cheap crappy plastic sites were dead-on out-of-the-box. Not being a fan of the drop in the bucket type sights I bought some Warren Tactical 2 dots. I have never been a three dot System fan to be honest. After installing the new sights, I took the gun back out to the range and shot another 200 rounds. If I wasn't so accurate with a Glock I probably still wouldn't like it, but that damn thing is dead on. I honestly didn't think I could get that kind of accuracy outside of a 1911 or a CZ platform. And of course I still have more love for my 1911s/ M9s and my CZs but I do carry a G19 or G45 every single day. Glock has earned my respect as a GTW (Go to war) Gun.
"glocks are a joy to work on because they are just so simple and have less parts to fail" That right there. A punch, few trigger return springs, and striker spring. Maybe an extractor and ejector and you can keep a Glock running for ever. I totally took apart my Glock with a Bic pen because someone told my there was no way I could. Minus removing the sights. I love my Beretta M9 and M9a1, and Sig m11A1 but Glock would be my leave the house forever pistol.
@@Rnemhrd Awesome!
The trigger is way better on the M18 least to me lol vs glocks an I’ve had no issues with any of my 320s very reliable
Love these comparisons! I hope your future holds the new Springfield Hi-Power and a comparison to your original Hi-Power.
So do I. Thanks for watching!
Great comparison, Chief. Maybe it's because I should probably be driving the Short Bus, but I like Glocks "drop in a bucket" sight configuration. I can pick up that particular sight picture Faster than the 3 dot sights on my other pistols....and I'm not even a Glock fanboy.
Excellent Comparison Review! I believe the USMC made an excellent choice in choosing the Sig Pistol and I hope it serves them well! On a personal note, I also prefer the Sigs ergonomics over that of the Glock. Actually, most any other handgun has better ergonomics than a Glock.
Considering the Sig pistols have not been around for 4 decades, why do you believe Glocks have greater durability/longevity?
@@hrfunk ???
@@jwc00789 please disregard that comment. It was a reply to someone else. I’m not sure how it ended up coming to you. Sorry!
@@hrfunk No Problem! Thankyou!
In the early 1980s we were briefly issued cut-down 1911A1 Governments that had been completely custom rebuilt by USAF gunsmiths at Lackland AFB, using WWII vintage firearms the government still had in reserve. The barrel, bushing, and slide were shortened to approximate Commander length and had a small ramp front sight installed which was made from bar stock. The grip frame was shortened by one round, giving it a profile close to an Officer model (which did not yet exist and would not enter the market until 1985). The trigger guard was squared. The frame was heavily stippled and fitted with a handmade ambidextrous safety. A custom six-round magazine with a curved pinky extension (like a Beretta 1934) was created from existing magazines. Two normal seven-round magazines were carried for backup. It was a very interesting concept created by an agent who had attended Jeff Cooper's Gunsite Academy and absorbed many of his ideas. At that moment in time the Gunsmith School was in danger of being shutdown, so they viewed this make-work project as something of a godsend to tide them over till the next budget cycle. I don't think more a few hundred pistols were ever rebuilt, and no regard for collectability was given. I sighed when I saw a Union Switch & Signal made gun among the batch we were issued for training. Before anyone asks, I don't recall there being any Singer built pistols in the group, but it seems highly unlikely. Only 500 were ever made. My overall impression of the gun was that it was pleasant to shoot (all steel), but not 100% reliable even with GI Hardball. It sure beat the 3" five-shot S&W J frames that were standard issue at the time.
Never been a fan of Glock or Sig but with the ability to change out the chassis and exchange it and the ability to change out the frames takes the striker fired pistols to a new level also the Sig has a clean trigger and a thicker frame than any other striker fired pistol I've seen with better ergonomics to boot.
Don't many of the special forces use the Glock and aren't changing? My understanding is that the Glock is pretty universal, among special forces, so it made sense to stick with Glocks. My understanding is that special forces have far more flexibility in which weapons they choose, while the general military gets the 'winners' of these weapons competitions. We know though, that usually there is little to no difference in the final competitors of weapons and that the decisions are based on who provides the best under-the-table incentives to those making the decisions ...
As a note to the M-18; I'm a weapons safety officer with a medium sized AF base. Since adoption of the M-18, the AF has seen a significant number of ND's. There have been no injuries as the ND's almost always occur when the weapons is being issued for duty with it being inserted into the clearing barrel. We are unsure if this has something to do with the different battery of arms and transition from the M-9.
Boy, that will get your attention. I remember a new troop shooting the clearing barrel with an M-16 after a 12 hour midnight during a generation. I’m not sold on this Sig. I’ve heard about a lot of ND’ both in the service and PD’s. The 320 has not been approved for use in my department. Even if it is, I’ll keep my Glock.
@@larry648 it’s all the extra parts the sig needed to convert it’s worse selling gun the p250 that makes them pretty unstable. Glock is definitely still relevant and hard to beat. The “modularity” aspect is also just a gimmick, I have a video on my channel of speed completely disassemble and reassemble of everything but the mag release in like 6 minutes using nothing but a flathead and I don’t thinks it’s to unreasonable for an armorer to be able to do the same and replace parts with a Glock. The sig on the other hand is a real bitch to completely disassemble.
Great video brother! I was a glock fan and then I got a p220. End.
I like the P320 M18 for its longer list of features, and I like the Glock 19 for its corrosion resistance and magazine prices. There's truly no such thing as a perfect gun. In the end I go with Sig, I just prefer a manual safety or a decocker, but that's me!
sig mark 25... the real military handgun
For whatever it's worth, I always found them to be very big and heavy.
I love mine, but it is a bit heavy...
Thank you for the video. It was a very interesting comparison. I'm not sure why they made the cap on the M18's guide rod oval shaped, requiring a specific orientation. That same piece on the M17 and other full size P320s is circular and it can be reassembled in any orientation. The Glock 19 is a great platform, but I also have difficulties with the grip angle. As you say, it is a very subjective preference. Having said that, I'd have no other reservations whatsoever about relying on a Glock to defend myself. However, my current EDC is still a Sig P320 RXP X-compact. Thank you again for another informative and entertaining video, Chief!.
You are most welcome. Thanks for watching!
I love my sigs I had a P220 and now a P320 both 45 ACP. I had a Glock 22 40 cal that was real good to Nd my HK Mark 4 45ACP very good weapon! Your shows are cool keep them coming Semfer Fi!
Thanks Doug, will do!
I totally agree with your opinion of the Glock grip. The grip angle of the Glock also causes the gun to naturally present muzzle high. I own 3 different brands of pistols and all of them present with the sights naturally aligned properly. That makes it much easier to get on target quickly. That could prove critical in a self defense situation.
I agree. I’m sure I could adapt to a Glock if I wanted to, but I’ve never felt the need to do so.
Ford vs. Chevy. I'll bring the popcorn.
Ram and HK.
Is there anything more fun than arguing over our preferred guns and trucks?
@@BravoSeven Butter?
HMX-1 Flight crew and pilots when they were armed they carried M9 and M1911 commander size. (1991-1995) But they rarely carried as they had a full detachment of MPs everywhere they went. More for lift missions and less for ERS missions.
Another great video. I really enjoyed it. I am waiting on my M18 and the comparison you did was extremely helpful as the Glock 19 was my second choice. Thank you!
Thank you. i'm Glad it was helpful!
Really enjoy these comparison vids. Thank You !!👍. My first experience with a striker fired was my G37 45GAP. I’ve been. Glock person ever since. I don’t have the M18 but I do like my M17 over my G17. It’s close but the M17 just feels and shoots a little better. Especially I prefer the Sig break down. I really hate having to pull that trigger no matter how many times I’ve checked it. These comparison videos are really well done and enjoyable. Thanks.
You’re welcome Keith. Thanks for watching!
I had a P320 compact. Sent it in for the recall and sold it. IMO the Glock 19 gen5 is better for me. The new XCompact grip might have made me think twice before selling it. I wouldn't buy another P320 though. I also have a 19x which is closer to the M17 than a G19. It is great. Not a Glock fan boy at all. I also shoot the Glock better. Personal preference.
Good! I hope they continue to work well for you.
When I get flustered at the range, I will still slip back into finger forward as well as use a Weaver stance. 1st day at Lincoln County SO (OK) 5 Oct 1987. used a S&W M-15 combat masterpiece. I then qualed with my Colt 1911. By the time I moved to OCHA it was a Ruger P-85, that was the Dept where I picked up all my bad habits. We qualed 4 x per year.
I really enjoyed this comparison. I was wondering if you would do a similar comparison, or offer your thoughts, on your Sig M18 vs your M&P 2.0 9? Thank you, I always enjoy your videos!
Thanks Anthony. I hadn’t planned on that, but let me give it some thought.
Many Thanks HR !....Having transitioned hundreds of LE from revolvers to the Beretta 92F (horrible out of box trigger pull on first double action shot) to Glocks I agree with your basic analysis. Out of box Glock triggers suck, grip is one size fits all (until all the backstrap nonsense) Im and old 1911 guy and Worst of All ....since we cant cure stupid, or laziness...requiring a trigger pull to disassemble is a recipe for disaster (and yes we had some of those disasters)....I must confess I was one who was initially fooled by the unique installation of the Sig spring assembly...perhaps they will later rethink that. Nice Job ! I do wish the Military would have insisted on a hammer fired pistol, and Sig used to manufacture one of the best.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching, and thanks for a great comment!
Great video, I'm working my way through your back catalog. I have to disagree with you on the armorer level maintenance issue. My take is that replacing the Sig module is issuing a whole different gun with a unique serial number and therefore would be no different from issuing a new serialized portion of any weapon if time didn't permit fixing the broken one. I have questioned the whole fixation with "modularity" that was pushed with this new handgun system, as I think probably 99% will be configured and never changed after that. Though I admit on my M-18 I changed the grip module with a Willson after I got it, so maybe I'm being hypocritical. Other than that great content and thank you for all the work you put in on these videos.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for a very detailed review, it was informative because do not own any of those two guns. I agree with you concerning manual safeties on striker-fired pistols. However, I put my Kahr MK9 carry gun in Kydex, which is a safety in itself. What kind of holsters are they issuing for the M18? If they are issuing the same ones as the Beretta, the manual safety may not be a bad thing.
When people say Glocks are cheap plastic tupperware and Sigs are better quality. I have done many testings on many polymers and Glocks are by far the best quality. A quick test is by heating or burning the Glock polymer it will melt into a gooey black glue like texture, but when it cools it hardens up and retains it's consistency without discoloration, then you can burn it again and if you want you can mold it into whatever you want and when it cools it hardens up again with a strong texture and regains it's structural integrity. When I try doing that with another polymer like a CZ or Sig, the plastic reacts like any cheap plastic you see at Wal-Mart by burning up with gray discoloration, and when it cools the plastic is brittle into broken pieces that chip off with ash residue like when burning a plastic Nerf gun.
I know you're not suppose to burn or melt polymers, BUT, this is just one example of what chemicals Glocks have that allow them to be burned and molded into many shapes and sizes and retaining their structural integrity and bright black color while the other polymers just burn up into broken pieces and ash. Also the Glock polymer soaks up recoil better than any other polymers. I know this because I shoot many .460 Rowland rounds through my gen3 Glock 21 and the recoil is actually pretty nice.
For you kids that don't know what a 460 Rowland is, it's basically a .44 magnum blasting out of a Glock 21 or 1911.
185 grain .460 Rowland flies at 1575 FPS with 1000 lbs of muzzle energy ;)
I’ll be certain not to get any of my non-Glocks too close to the oven on Thanksgiving!
@@hrfunk - I'm not saying the Glock polymer is more heat resistant than the others since I don't have the data on that matter. I'm saying that when heated the Glock polymer reacts far better but that doesn't mean it's tolerant is higher before melting, it could be or maybe not. So, if you're not confident being too close to the oven with your non-Glocks, that should go the same for your Glocks.
@@reachblowsdick7222 I was just joking. I guess it didn’t come across that way. Happy Thanksgiving!
@@hrfunk - I know you where just kidding, no sane human being would stand so close to the oven that their pistol would start melting, at that point the pistol is the last thing to worry about.
I never cared all that much about handgun ergonomics until I broke a small bone in my wrist. Now that there's some pain and limited motion, I noticed that I prefer the feel of the 1911 with the flat mainspring housing over the A1 version. For an apples-to-apples comparison, my Sig P320 XCompact (15+1) holds the same rounds as the G19, but my pinkie doesn't slip off like it does on the G19. The M18 form factor is ideal IMO. Not too big, not too small. The Glock isn't a bad gun, but it's not the great gun that its mystique suggests.
The Xcompact grip was IMO a game changer for the top heavy feel of the P320. I shot a Glock 19 after owning the original P320 compact and couldn't like the Sig anymore. I still wouldn't rebuy it.
I’m with you on the modular design of the SIG. it fits my hand better than the Glock.
I'm getting an M 18. Looking forward. My wife has a Gen 5 G19.
Btw superb videos, thank you
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching.
Great comparison between the Sig and Glock. Very thorough. I’ve carried and trained with the Glock 19 Gen 5 for four years and decided to change to a Kimber 1911 Commander size in .45 acp back last spring. I’ve trained exclusively with the 1911 for six months or so and I’ve gotten so used to the natural pointing of the 1911, I find that I really don’t like the G19 as much anymore. I still want to have a 9mm striker as an option to the Kimber and have been considering trading in the Glock for a Sig 320 or 365. I don’t want a 9mm 1911 as I personally think the 1911 is just perfect with .45. Thank you as always for the great content.
You’re welcome Stephen thanks for watching!
Hay Chief, between the M18 and the M&P 2.0 which pistol do you prefer? Sorry if you already did this comparison, I looked and could not find one.
Probably the M&P, but that may well be from long standing familiarity more so than any performance advantage.
I guess for new shooters, Sig is the way to go. If you know the know, Glock is the way to go. I like the simplicity of Glock, no frills slide no lawyer speak carved in, low in the hand, no external safety, metal lined mags that go for $20 vs $45 Sig mags, 33 round mags, not to mention aftermarket makers such as magpul, amend2, ets, parts to completely rebuild your Glock, holsters from everybody, less parts to maintain. Sig has the FCU, but if I want that, I’ll go with Beretta. I just don’t like the 3xx series from Sig, P2xx, MK25, are the way to go if you go Sig. In my (no one cares) opinion.
Careful, “fires without magazine” ( or trigger finger, lol)
“Read manual before use”
“Look both ways before crossing” ( haven’t seen it on a gun yet, looking at you Ruger)
Man the premiere for this video can't come any sooner. 25 hours is so long. Can't wait to hear what your thoughts on these two. Personally I shoot the Glock 19 the best out of every Compact size pistol I ever fired, but I like think I would like the M18 better based on my experience with the M17 (haven't shot the M18 but I have shot the larger M17). The pistol grip just fills out my hands better, sights are better, and the trigger break is nicer. The frame safety also protects you from those lame P320 drop safety jokes on the Any Gun Weekend Facebook gun group posts even though that hasn't been an issue for a while.
I hope you join us for the premier live-chat. I think you will find the video to be quite interesting.
@@hrfunk already have my notifications turned on and set. I can't wait man.
I always learn something new! Please keep ‘em coming!
Will do. Thanks for watching!
HR are you going to try to get your hands on one of those new SA35's Springfield just came out with? Seems like a good fit for your channel.
Yes. But it sounds like it’s going to be a few weeks they are widely available.
When you were show casing the Sig from the rear it looks like the frame rails were bent up at an angle but the slide cuts were perpendicular at right angles. Don't own a Sig and didn't know if that is normal?
Thanks for update. Hey Sig…put a X-Grip frame w/ an option for a manual safety and I’m all in…and/or put a manual safety on the custom module program where I can build my own.
You're welcome. I hope they do!
Ever seen Wilson combat grip model?
Yes, but I have not handled one.
@@hrfunk they are great Just buy it and thank me later. They have a few different sizes and the even fit the m18 with the safety
@@marcuslocklear7026 Thanks! I’ll take another look at them, but I kind of like my M18 as it is.
This is a really good explanation of logic behind the decisions that the various military branches have made . You Stated in your other video that you need to think It's about not what just you like, but what would best serve the various members of the organization. And when I was in the military, not everybody liked the M16 rifle ! They weren't gun nuts that like the rest of us, lol!
Yes. Making a selection for a large group of people with varying degrees of firearm skills requires a different mind set. It’s not a tremendously easy task, and you never make everyone happy with the final selection.
Thanks for a very detailed, thoughtful video!
I was a bit disappointed to learn that the M18 did not have a slightly shortened grip, even though a couple of rounds would be given up, since the grip is often the part that compromises concealment.
I really like a thumb safety, though, because of the risk of an ND if something such as a holster strap or clothing gets inside the trigger guard--I had a friend who blew his own leg off with a shotgun because he got careless and let some cloth get inside the guard.
The Glock's sharper grip angle is indeed an issue for shooters used a more vertical grip, such as the M1911 and most other pistols; this is one reason I'm not excited about Glocks either.
I’m glad you liked it Pete. Thanks for watching!
There is p320 xcompact with 15 round mag and shorter grip it is much closer to g19 in terms of size.
@@not_your_business666 I've been able to handle a P320 with a shorter grip AND thumb safety. I picked up a P320/M18 a few days ago, so of course I went to the Sig website to see what other grip module options are available. 😎
Great comparison video!
Thanks Alan!
That’s interesting that you say that you shoot high with Glocks because of the grip angle. I find the opposite is true whenever I shoot a non-Glock gun… always shooting low and have to compensate.
I'm going to guess that you've spent a great deal of time shooting Glock pistols.
@@hrfunk Mr Funk, you would be guessing correct.😀
They're both good
Thanks
Chief hate to say that 5 letter bad word, but I own a GLOCK 19 Gen 5 and was issued a GLOCK 21 and when working bank robbery investigations actually carried a Glock 20 10mm with full power 175 grain silver tip JHP ammo. My partner FBI Agent Charlie Cresalia pack a S&W 1076 FBI issue only hold out in his office so armed. Give me a 1911 configured pistol, but I've carried and used GLOCKS but frankly (and we had extensive transition training) are the most accident prone under stress weapon system in law enforcement operations. Putting the so called safety on the front of the trigger and no manual safety, is dangerous under stress. Like carrying a 1911 hammer back manual safety off and using the grip safety only. A very dangerous thing I hope NO ONE does.
Thank you Sergeant Major. I think you’ll find of interest the comments I make regarding the safety characteristics of these two pistols.
A manual safety is only a pacifier to those that forget that their grey matter is the safety. Alec Baldwin had to thumb the hammer back before he shot. No greater manual safety than that and yet….1 dead and 1 wounded.
Do you remember anyone from your time in the Corps who would have made you feel uneasy if you knew they were handling a weapon with no manual safety?
@@hrfunk No BUT, we were not issued pistols in the lower ranks of the Combat Engineers either. The only time we carried pistols was on certain posts on guard duty. I remember one guy playing John Wayne with his but, I still think that is a grey matter issue that no manual safety can override.
@@hrfunk Even the normal M&P doesn’t have a standard manual safety, right?
Thank you for this. Another winner!
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
@@hrfunk You're welcome.
I'm glad that I'm able to use hollow points. In my situation, either of those would be good enough. If I were in the military, I'd want a pistol that shoots the biggest pre-expanded round available.
Although I own a Glock 19 my real training and experience was with Smith revolvers and 1911's. This was really informative.
Good! I'm glad it was helpful.
Both are great pistols.. the military just thinks that the barretta was to complex to teach the troops with a DA/SA with a decocker.. not a bad choice with the sig ..
Well done! I'm sorry I missed the premiere, but I'm squared away now. Although I can't definitively confirm it, I've read that armed HMX crew members are required to carry concealed, and must be duty/mission ready at a moments notice.
Thanks. That makes a bit more sense.
@@hrfunk Can you imagine? DB Deltas/Svc Charlies w/shirt stays & AIWB? My tailor would be driving a Cadillac...
HR, this is an excellent comparison. I suppose, at least partially because I agree with you! I understand that many people love Glocks but they just don't work for me. They don't fit my hand and the triggers are substandard. Of course, I came of age with 1911s and Smith revolvers, so I consider poor triggers substandard. I tried to like Glocks... but I failed.
Thanks!
So I went out and bought the standard full size p320 9mm bout an hour ago I love it
Good! Have you shot it yet?
I just got back from the range I put 250 rounds of fiocchi ammo 147 grain ammo I like it alot however as striker fired pistols go my fav is still the m&p 2.0
@@apbiggins8mm Quiet as kept, the S&W M&P 2.0 is probably the best duty pistol - especially for the price. The SIG p320 trigger is much better but the M&P runs FLAWLESSLY and points much more naturally.
Excellent comparison. I feel the same way Glock grip and trigger, though vs my 226. M-17 and 18s aren’t approved in CA. Perhaps because I’m an old 1911 guy, I like the idea of the safety. Not so much for Marines, but I’ve witnesses some pretty scary accidental, negligent discharges among the line USAF and Army troops. Yeiks!!! Great video!!
Thanks Chris!
The M18 is now on the CA handgun roster, in case you were not aware.
The striker system on the m18 is much more similar to a SAO then a DAO because unlike the Glock, the striker is fully tensioned.
It certainly results in a better trigger pull.
The military should have went with the G17 and G19 gen 5. Sig is selling their M17/18s basically at cost to the military so that civilians will spend $600+ on one
Is there something wrong with all that?
@@hrfunk the military gets an inferior handgun compared to other options and civilians get to overpay for theirs
@@hrfunk from a business standpoint it makes a lot of sense and good for Sig for winning the contract. It would have been nice to have seen the test results if they continued with the MHS competition
Having both a 19X and A G45 I believe they are very well balanced. The 17 size grip on a 19 slide seemed kind of strange to me at first but once you go to work with those bad boys they are just Badass!
@@WillyTheScotchMan I have a G45 and it’s a great firearm. The way I seeit, if you are going to hang a light off of it like a Streamlight TLR-1, you might as well have the longer barrel of the G17 because the light is going to be longer than the slide anyways
Thank you. Useful video.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
Is the regular p320 optics ready? Or just the M17?
Nice review, I don't like the grip on the 19 myself, at least the gen 3, my fingers are too stubby
There are numerous optics ready p320 designs.
@@papimaximus95 I was asking about the base pistol
I've never seen one in person, because I wasn't paying attention prior to the whole trainwreck we've been living the past couple years
Thanks. HR. Good stuff, only firearm I have not close to these. Is my SAR-9 good firearm I trust. But still use my Berreta 92. Thank you ! Semper Fidelis.
Semper Fi Randy!
Happy Halloween Mr. Funk!
Thanks Mark. Same to you!
first and foremost an outstanding video! Safety on a military issued weapon in my opinion is a must have. Why? Because you don’t want every swing and Richard or Karen nowadays that is not well-versed in firearms regardless of how many times they have been to the range Having an accidental discharge and perhaps killing someone in the process. And yes I’ve seen it happen unfortunately.
Being able to swap out the control module as you call it for an Armorer Is outstanding and makes it where the downtime of a weapon is next to nothing while on the range itself perhaps. Plug and play parts assembly, who'd ever thought of this back in the day!
You mentioned grips or holding the M18 or the Glock And which one felt better or more natural. I think the M18 having a more rounder grip versus the thinner slim Glock grip is why it feels better in the hands, at least that’s my take.
I'm not well versed with handguns to begin with, nir am I well versed in the Marine Corps reasoning for choosing the M18. Sure cost is the bottom line not that a weapons platform is the best choice. That said I think, as an old Army Grunt that the Marines did very well in its choice. I wouldn't want to be the one choosing a firearm that is supposed to fit one and all alike. My hats off to them and perhaps the Army should take heed on other weapons platforms the Corps has adopted as of late!
Thanks David. I'm glad it was informative!
Did the Marines issue the first-release Gen5 Glock 19 you show or the Gen3 Glock 19?
I’m not sure which generation they procured.
@hrfunk Gunner Wade was responsible for procuring Glock 19Ms for the BLTs on the MEUs under IIMEF. It’s a shame they weren’t adopted service wide. At 2d MSOB there were 3rd Gen Glock 19s in the inventory alongside the MEUSOC 1911s prior to SOCOM’s adoption of that Glock model. The M18 is a good pistol, but when the majority of the force was asking for Glock…I wish they would’ve listened.
Have you had a chance to work with the M18 (or speak with someone who has)? I’m just curious how it’s being received by the fleet.
@@hrfunk Minimal experience on the M18 specifically, limited to a single qualification course. Overall most of us liked it, and many have said they prefer it over the M9. Lots of complaints continue to stem from the grip size of the M9, and that’s where the M18 shines. I and some others did run P320s through ZSA competitions a few years back, the pistols performed admirably. Another angle would be that several Marines have told me they’ve bought a P320/M18 for their personal collection recently, can’t say the same for the M9/92.
@@DeltaEchoUSMC Thanks for the update and Semper Fi!
I wish you would go over your favorite type of jhp ammo
Great video!
Thanks!
Great videos!
Thank you!
Excellent video thanks for the vdeo and time 👍
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
In all my years of shooting Glock pistols, I have never seen or heard of a GLOCK magazine failing in the manner you described. Aftermarket ones? Yes. KCI Gen 1’s as a matter of fact. I have a Marine sniper, Swat sniper, Firearms trainer Brother/Friend that will not allow them in any of his pistols. The main problem with the KCI ones is that the baseplate is softer than Glock’s and on a firm insertion they can expand and dump ammo everywhere. I use a Locktite plastic cement on mine to keep them in place so I can drop $8 mags in the dirt or on cement at the range and save the $40 Glock Factory mags for CCW. Same idea with the Sig, for me, I use Armscor mags for the range, $12 each over Sig ones that are $40+.
I've seen two fail in the manner in which I described. One was on the range during fireams training and the other was dropped on concrrete while it was fully loaded.
@@hrfunk Two in 40 years? Okay….
:D
@@hrfunk that was one of the issues I saw potentially with Glock mags and like you said you have seen 2 fail so far and I'm positive other people have seen them fail also. They may be few and far between failures but it definitely can happen. That being said I have learned to love Glock mags, and I only use Glock Factory mags for my Glocks. They actually are built pretty damn well considering they are mostly polymer, they are cheaper than almost any other Factory magazine that I can think of. When I am running and gunning I'm not worried about dropping my glock mags on the ground because they are expensive or really shiny and beautiful. LOL I buy Glock magazines all the time so if one or two ever happened to break on me I won't be too upset. So far I have had chips in the base plates and scratches all over the damn mag but they still work even after dropping them a few dozen times or more. Some of my guns have very beautiful and shiny mags that I have to use a dump pouch with because if I dent those metal ones or scratch them up to badly I will have to replace them and they are freaking expensive LOL I guess the moral of the story is shiny pretty mags use dump pouch, Glock mags just drop on the ground or lob them at the enemy and holler Grenade!!! 😜
Had both. Hated both. Back to 1911. Thx for video sir!! Go Space Force!!
Slow, deliberate and informative: Thanks.... I do watch your other videos: I am sure you look like the of Frank Sutton, from the Gomer Pyle era...and have been told that before...( a compliment)
Thanks! I have been told that before.
I've shot a P320, a M9, and a Glock 19. While it was the most oddly balanced and honestly fit my hand probably the worst, I was able to shoot the M9 the best of all 3. But I must say, all 3 were a lot of fun, and I could probably shoot all 3 equally with enough time and training
Training is always the key. Thanks for watching Shane!
I don't like the "wide body" bulk of the M18 or the thumb safety. Glock 19 all the way for me.
Semper Fi
Based on the measurements I took, the grip on the Sig is actually smaller in circumference than the Glock.
@@hrfunk Wide Slide. I also don't like the trigger. Semper Fi
Semper Fi!
"I don't like the "wide body" bulk of the M18 or the thumb safety. Glock 19 all the way for me
You do know the manual safety was a requirement of the military. If Glock won, they would have had it as well.
@@papimaximus95 Just FYI, the pistol Glock submitted for the MHS had a manual safety.
M18 all day for me.
Ferritic Nitrocarburization (Melonite) is tougher and better for wear and corrosion resistance than PVD over stainless steel.
I'm not sure how durable, reliable or how difficult detailed maintenance will be for the SIG. SIG was "slow out of the gate" with many releases and that has given me pause. That said, I like the ergo, the external safety (it's ergos, location and function) of the SIG. I wish the SIG had much more aggressive stippling. If I am awakened to 9.0 Earthquake followed by 2 feet of mud I'll have a Glock 19X with me.
There will be more information on this coming soon.
which one to buy?
I would say handle them both (shoot them if possible) and see which one works the best for you.
Just what I wanted to see
Thanks for watching!
I love my Glocks and am proud to be a fan boy :-) You can change literally any piece of a Glock you may not like. However, nothing has to be changed to make it reliable. I know this isn't what the video is about. I just like talking.
Let's Go Brandon
It's a double edge sword. If you modify a Glock you're ridiculed because you "need upgrades". Yet those same assholes will praise their P320 because "they can modify" the grips and triggers. So modifying a Glock is bad, modifying a P320 is good. Some people just like bashing Glocks for no reason. I myself just keep Glocks stock with nothing added not even the sights, and I have no problems shooting dead center mass at 50 yards.
Sig fails drop test get picked for military service
Glock passes drop test and gets thrown to the side.
Sig has fixed that issue so is the 320 now acceptable?
@@hrfunk it shouldn't have been an issue... To start with
@@hrfunk having shot both Glock and Sig, I would take Glock over Sig any day
Why? What was different about shooting the Glock?
@@hrfunk for me the recoil impulse felt better with the Glock versus the Sig sites were faster and easier to align versus Sig and overall just felt better in my hand
I feel that the gripe about the Glock grip angle comes from a target shooters perspective instead of a gun fighters perspective.
It was more or less copied from the P08 Luger.
@@hrfunk I'm actually one of the rare people who like the Glock grip angle.
I don’t think you’re alone. I personally don’t like the Glock grip, but I think many people do.
The problem I have with P320 triggers is they're so spongy and flimsy and I hate that. I much prefer the OEM Glock trigger but they're not all the same. Some Glocks have horrible triggers and another Glock will have a superb trigger, just depends on how you pick them from a batch. With Sig P320 they're all pretty much the same spongy flimsy trigger and so far the only thing you can change on a P320 trigger is a flat face trigger which does nothing for me and doesn't change the flimsy spongy feel. But with Glocks you have a library of thousands of triggers than can be changed into whatever you want. Me personally I like OEM Glock triggers but if I ever where to put in a drop in trigger, the Timney Triggers are by far the best only rivaled by Johnny Glock's triggers but they're more expensive.
I have never particularly cared for factory Glock triggers. The trigger in my M18 feels considerably better than the one in my G19.
@@hrfunk - I noticed that your G19 has a long over-travel trigger pull, as if it came with a "minus" connector. To me the gen 5 triggers are not as good as some claim, they feel spongy and long. The gen 2 or 3 triggers are far better, my gen 3 G21 has a short light pull with no over-travel. The best remedy for bad Glock triggers is the Timney Trigger. It feels like a Walther 45 striker trigger which is the best striker trigger outta the box. I fortunately have the ability to shoot any trigger. Shooting is more mental than physical. This is how I can shoot a 12 pound D/A revolver as good as a Staccato XC 2011 race gun.
The US Military must think military personnel is prone to negligent discharges.
I wonder why?
Excellent video, sir; like you, I have long found Glocks’ triggers, sights and ergonomics to be marginal FOR ME (obviously millions of other shooters would disagree). I’d offer one additional Sig advantage, it’s modular design allows the chassis to be redeployed to other frames, slides and barrels; I’m not sure how frequently this will be done, but it cannot be accomplished with the Glock.
I just don’t understand why they wanted a safety lever, it really does not make up for poor gun handling. I suppose it might help during re-holstering If someone gets their blouse caught in the holster and they ram it home anyway. But it is just one more thing to have to train for.
I told someone a while back that when I was in the Marine Corps I knew guys who could break bowling balls and lose jeeps. I kind of understand why the military required a safety on these pistols for a general issue firearm.
I believe MARSOC is staying with the Glock according to the Marine Corps Times
I wonder why?
I think in terms of a military pistol, these guns are different but neither is "better" than the other. They will both do the exact same thing in the exact same way. I do agree that a manual safety is a good thing on a military pistol. I feel that the other added "features" on the Sig are great for the civilian consumer, but add unnecessary complexity to a military pistol. If I am issuing pistols to troops, I prefer the simplicity of the Glock.
In use, I don’t think the Sig is any more complicated for the average shooter.
@@hrfunk Agree, the manual safety is pretty much like that on a 1911. I only wish it was a little larger like a 1911 safety.
@@hrfunk In use, I totally agree. They are one and the same. But let's get in the mind of the average grunt for a second. You know they are going to be guns out there with messed-up chassis, missing optics plates, screwed-up red dots....Why? Because that ham-fisted grunt couldn't leave well enough alone. 😂
Ah the M18. One moment while I cry for everyone else in California.
Only way mortals like me can own them here is if we were either military or law enforcement.
Working on getting into BOTH.
SIDE NOTE: Chief, do you plan on enhancing your Glock, in terms of changing the sights, etc? Mine came with night sights so I was fortunate not to have to do that..
I’m still conflicted as to whether or not I wanna buy a gold barrel simply due to aesthetics(I’ve heard it may enhance performance, but I got used to the stock barrel that she does what she needs to when the time comes)..
I’m not planning on going the “Gucci Glock” route- way above my pay grade. Haha.
That Glock 19 was issued to me by my current employer so I can’t modify it.
Glock 19 is 100 times better that Sig
Why?
@@hrfunk Just an opinion honestly. Im a fan of Sig and an owner of a few. Im just not the 320 fan at all. If I was going into any type of shit and you looked at me and handed me both of those. I'm Trusting my life to that G19 every time
No problem. I don’t begrudge anyone his personal opinion. Still, if someone declares a certain firearm as being superior to as other, I’m just curious to learn their thoughts as to why.
@@hrfunk way less parts on the Glock, has an actual track record while the sig p320 has thousands of pending cases where springs get worn and the weapon fires while holstered, silly gimmicky tactical garbage all over the sig while the Glock maintains a professional look, all calibers of sig outside the 9mm are less capacity then a comparable Glock model. Really the only thing sig did right was include stock night sights. The real winner is the PPQ or PX4 by beretta if you are looking for a real duty gun.
@@someguy5444 the PPQ is a great gun with an outstanding trigger. The PX4 is a decent gun but the rotating barrel is an issue.
What happened to the 1911s that the marines ordered from Colt?
They are being phased out in favor of the M18.
You have missed out on the ones that Colt had to take back due to their defective finishes. Colt released them back into the wild so civilians were able to buy them. I think the total was around 900. And about half of those were still new in the box. The bad news is they were selling for between $4000, and $8000.
I guess if you're stuck shooting those little 9mm bullets and don't mind having a manual safety slowing you down, those guns are okay, but I'll stick to my .40 Sigs, P229 & P239.
The USCG went with the Glock 19 MOS
So I’ve heard.
Cool
I won’t buy a striker fired Sig. in the 320 series. Too many issues. Prefer the 226 and 229 which I have. My Glock Gen 5 mos is spot on.
How many issues exist in the currently produced 320?
Contemporary 9mm pistol, hammer or striker fired, any mid to top tier fits the bill. Been there done that, it's not gonna be sidearm that determines the battle, in fact, stow it and carry extra mags for your rifle or more water and Redbull. Jus Sayin....🛡🤠⚔👁🤘🤡
I once made a similar suggestion on another site and even recommended we adopt a variation of the old British practice of allowing personnel to procure their own handguns unless there is a specific duty requiring them to be armed with an issue sidearm. You should have seen the ensuing weeping and gnashing of teeth.
No, the handgun will probably not win the battle. It may, however, save the life of the individual soldier, Marine, or Airmen who’s position is being overrun; or the sentry on guard duty who discovers the infiltrators; or, the MP who locates a thief trying to steal government property, or……
@@hrfunk Make mine a customized Glock G40 with fiber optic/tritium sights and the strongest light possible. If I can't hit 'em or kill 'em, maybe I can blind the sumbitches.
More power to you Colonel!
@@Paladin1873 I've been hit with a really bright light when my eyes were fully dark-adapted. It HURT! and I couldn't see for a few minutes...
I like that M=18 Glocks are not for me I don't like the Glock grip angle and it's too Blocky.
Same for me Rick.
For trained operatives the Glock is a better pistol, and if modified to select fire is even better. The Sig is safer for general troops, but feels like a brick .
Why is the Glock better for more highly trained personnel?
Lack of a safety, better trained shooters will be less likely to just put their finger on trigger and pull, without using blade safety. Same reason the military didn’t promote cocked and locked 1911 carry
@@Desperado3248 "Lack of a safety, better trained shooters will be less likely to just put their finger on trigger and pull, without using blade safety."
You do realize that the military REQUIRED a manual safety in the RFP. So if Glock had won, it would have a safety as well.
He is comparing the standard Glock, which has been used by military units, and recently received a domestic use military contract, as is
The 320 has a higher boraxis, the magazines are more expensive, and it is more chunkier than the Glock 19. It has issues with discharging in holsters even after their voluntary upgrade. However it does have the ability to easily swap out frames, excellent trigger pull/break, and comes with decent sites.
The Glock comes with crappy sites from the factory, and the trigger press is not the greatest. However parts and magazines are very easy to find and pretty decently priced. It's been around since the early 80s, some gen 1 pistols still being in use. So we know the long-term lasting effects from decades of use.
Going to go with the Glock despite liking Sig.
I’ve been around long enough to remember the Glock 17 when it was first introduced. It did not exactly receive a warm welcome. I wonder how the M17/M18 will be viewed 4 decades from now?
@@hrfunk I believe there will always be people who love it and people who hate it. However the Glock didn't have issues with going off in people's holsters. So I think that's always going to be in the back of people's minds. My particular dislike of the 320 was the garbage customer service I received when inquiring as an instructor about the 320 still having issues discharging without the trigger being pulled even after the upgrade.
I make sure my students understand the issues the 320 had whenever they ask about that model.
@@napalmstickylikeglue Interestingly, Glock’s unintended discharge issues stem from people depressing the trigger to disassemble the pistol. A little research will uncover more than a few law suits arising from that. I’m not sure how that’s been kept so quiet over the years. It seems odd to me that nearly every time a “safety” concern involving firearms hits the mainstream media, but that one never has.
@@hrfunk yeah but that is not the fault of the firearm design or the company who made it. That's lack of training and negligence by the operator. The 320 issue was/is a mechanical defect that Sig tried to pretend didn't happen. Until it started happening to the point they couldn't keep it quiet. Then instead of issuing a recall like they should have, they issued a "voluntary upgrade" which was so they could save face.
I believe the voluntary recall was for the 365. As to the blame for Glock’s issue, I suspect a lot has to do with which side of the law suite one happens to be on.
M18 is the show pony. Glock is the work horse. IMO. I do own both
Pvd on the sig isn’t that great at least on mine
Don’t buy a Romeo 1 red dot for it even though it’s a sig red dot sight it won’t fit on m18 and can’t find plates available. found that out the hard way
Decent trigger better than glock but not cz p10 good
Great night sights even though mine shoot a little high. But combat accurate for sure
Plenty of mags available Also put a Wilson combat grip model on mine
Glock kills most competitors with available of parts and accessories. You can get any thing for glocks
Sig m18. may be better. But it will stay mostly hidden because I just don’t care 🤷🏼♂️ about where I take my glock
Dirt ,mud ,salt,sand bring it on
Worst that can happen is I destroy the ugliest most unattractive firearm the world has ever seen
My cz p01 , s&w 586-1 , colt govt competition series and every other gun I own which is way too many would be pleased that I lost the ugly stepchild
Well, Howard, this video certainly shouldn’t evoke any emotions or staunchly held opinions.
“Plain clothes military investigators”? Why would the Marines require such officers HR? I would think those kinds of criminals would be addressed by the FBI or secret service types…? What kind of criminals would the marine plainclothes guys go after?
The kind who steal government property, or bring drugs into Marine installations, or the ones who violate any number of other laws. I don’t recall our investigators being idle.
Looks funny
Yeah, I get that a lot.
Two pistols with triggers like slightly wet sponges.
Sig all day.
@hrfunk - You forget that the Glock is actually safe to carry, the P320 has waaay too many reported accidental discharges for me to trust it. I'll stick with my old West German P226 over any modern striker Sig.
I think the word “reported” is significant. We saw a lot of reports concerning Remington 700 triggers a few years ago.
@@hrfunk - It is reported, and even on the evening news where a police woman's post updated X series P320 pistol accidentally went off while holstered in her purse. If not for the safety issues, I would have loved owning a P320.
@@reachblowsdick7222 The evening news also “reported” a lot of things about Kyle R. Without first hand knowledge of such events, I remain skeptical. I’ve just seen too many things blamed on equipment failure as a means to conceal user error.
@@hrfunk - If that's the case of "skeptical reporting", Sig Sauer wouldn't be paying millions in lawsuits if they weren't legitimate concerns. If those reports were false (and some actually were) Sig would have them all debunked, but the P320 did and still does have some safety bugs that need working out and Sig is too proud to admit it and instead just blames everything on their customers. That's pretty low for Sig to do even for companies like Glock and H&K.
If only it were that simple. I’m not disputing that the 320/M17 had an issue. Sig has since rectified that problem. Rather I’m skeptical that all the “reports” are true. When large companies are sued, they do a cost/benefit analysis when deciding whether or not to litigate the issue. Many times it is cheaper and better for the company’s image to simply settle the matter for a certain sum of money.contrary to popular opinion, such settlements do not concede fault on the part of the company. If Sig has actually been held liable by a court, I haven’t heard of it.