The Hidden Games of the Motorcycle Companies!
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Watch this video before you purchase your new motorcycle!
I don't want to discourage you from buying a new bike I also do not have any plans to blame the motorcycle companies for their build quality. The idea of this video is to inform you about some of the tricks that companies use to manipulate your opinion. So next time when you are about the buy a new motorcycle, this might help you save some money.
If you have nothing to do, grab a beer and stay with me!
Before you decided to click off because you just bought your new bike or because my opinion doesn't matter to you, please listen to what I am about to tell you. It is not going to hurt you in any way. It is exactly the opposite, it will help you to see the truth.
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I find all the "Motorcycle Adventures" videos and information realistic in a world full of so much hype. I don't have unlimited funds but I do have the means to buy a new bike. I just choose to spend my finances on the journey and your practical advice is appreciated. Thanks, Pavlin
Any time, David!
Good advice. I have a T7 (2021) and love the simplicity. I never had the sophisticated electronic features so frankly, I don't miss them.
Thanks for sharing!
every and each time I watch any of your videos is like sitting down with a good friend and listen to his wise speech. Thank-you
I appreciate it, man!
Thank you Pavlin!
It's about time somebody had to say this and I'm happy I hear it from you.
In the last years I find it impossible to believe all the bullsh*t that I read in the reviews from big motorcycle magazines and various *experts*. I refuse to hear the lies and be a victim of deception, so I always try the bikes myself. Nothing convinces me anymore, just fancy plastics and lack of purpose.
Another thing, I really cannot justify these prices any more, marketing sucks!
It is what it is! The market provides what the clients want!
@@motorcycleadventures or it dictates what the clients "should want"..
Yes, we can say it this way as well!
They may push it in a certain direction for liability reasons. If you make a fairly light 150 horsepower bike then it should be able to break loose easily and that might cause people of modern culture to blame the bike for their own ineptness. And since the technology exists then they could present a case in court that the company was negligent for not providing it. Unfortunately that's the world we live in.
But ultimately as consumers we vote with our dollars. So regardless of what they market to us, they are going to produce what we buy.
@@motorcycleadventures the market supplies, what the customer... "THINKs" they want... & the customer is feed to believe they "need" it because the magazine reports do a rave about this & that, & its "proven" on the race track etc etc blaa blaa bla... most of the magazines (online or where ever) are coerced with controlled product releases etc pushing particular agenda... I would argue, pressured by legislators... developments in abs, traction control & "emissions" are being feed to a spoon fed generation that have been educated to not question or think, rationally.
so I would suggest the traditional manufacturers are being constrained to meet legislators ever increasing distorted world views of where development is being pushed... i dont believe its actually the bike manufacturers, at least the likes of the big4 in Japan, that are at fault... they are attempting to squeeze the costs a bit but... they always have, its a marginal business & the electronics tech world are more at fault for the reliability... its an overflow from the PC comp world... & look at ITs history of reliability.
Thin shell bearings... yeah well... its sort of a factor of the improvements of the oils we now have & their promises they claim... would be interesting to see the piston rings & cylinder ... & box... of an old tech big single after 200k kms of diligent services all its life... id bet, itll be fit for another 200k... id put the t700, tdm motor in that same boat too.
AND... all that electronics... can be turned OFF... at the flick of a switch in some office... & restrict you from when & where you can ride it... any time they like... just like your cell phones... thats what its about!!!
I appreciate your attitude, Pavlin. Simplify your life. And spend the money saved on travelling ;-)
Cheers from Nürnberg/Germany
Thanks! 😃
Pavlin, please keep speaking your truth. We are mostly victims of marketing ploys and only the voices of experience can maintain the balance. I expect you are NOT easily bought and wont sell your soul to the corporations and for that I'm grateful. We need principles before profits, otherwise we are only slaves to the Masters of Profit.
Thanks for taking the time, man!
After watching you i got my cb500x 2021 mode. The bike is very simple and I realize about 50hp is enough for travelling across Europe.
Great!
It only takes 12hp to circumnavigate the planet, the rest is wheel spin ... ✌️
I agreed 100% what you have said and sometime we didn't need it at all as for daily rideing
Thanks!
Totally agree with you and as an owner of ktm1190, honda xl700 and drz400, I know which is best. Also no matter what manual says, I change both oil and filter 5k on the bigger bikes and 1.5k on the smaller bikes. Next bike I buy will be tenere 700 unless honda brings out middle weight without all them electronics and hopefully sees their way to using tubeless tyres
Thanks for sharing your experience, Alan!
Hi Alan,
I also have a Honda XL700 and really like the simplicity. And who says that 60 HP is not enough to travel the world?
@@MichielKerkhofs did the xlv700 ever have 60hp I thought it was 50 something. I know it went from 600 to 650 then 700 and gained about 3 hp in one of the model changes. And ended up weighing over 215kg eventually.
@@chrishart8548 The original Transalp 600 had 50 HP, the 650 had 55 and the 700 has 60. Since the weight has increased with each new model the acceleration has not increased much. Oil consumption has improved dramatically though. For long distance traveling I would like the 650 over the 700. Bigger fuel tank and front wheel. And simpler electronics.
@@MichielKerkhofs I would rather have the bigger single disc and a 21" wheel anyday
This man is the embodiement of the phrase "Knowledge is power"
👍🏻🙂
Always learning....thanks to you Pavlin.
My pleasure!
perfectly said, my friend. the motorcycke companies are simply competing with each other to produce the “flashiest” bikes for the sake of sales, but you are seeking the most reliable bike for the sake of *use*…. two totally different worlds.
thank you for making this vid… it clarifies the mind. 👍👍👍
Thanks for taking the time!
So true... thanks from Arizona. Dave 62, new rider
Very welcome, Dave!
I agree with you 100%. Electronic features add nothing to the riding experience. And oil changes more frequent than recommended will save money in the long run. I tend to buy new and keep for a long time.
Thanks for taking the time!
You should say " grab your favorite drink ". I always get a cup of tea or coffee and watch your videos. In other words, your videos are great regardless of what you're drinking. Your videos are informative and entertaining. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, man!
I drink tea!
It’s a 10 min video. I will finish it before the tea is ready. And a beer is a much longer time commitment. I take it as a metaphor for “chill”
Whatevr man, whatever!
Just grab whatever mate, "a beer" don't mean literally, unless you're a beer drinker! I drink tea and beer, just not together..............😎😜
Pavlin, the upper part of the fork is the important part. If the lower part is only 43mm, it doesn't matter as long as the 43mm is short and on the lower section, you fork will be much more rigid.
Wrong!
@@motorcycleadventures He's right on the upper part matters the most. It's the internals that make or break suspension.
Okay. Then why all dirt bikes and more dirt-orientated bikes got 48mm inner tubes? Even that they always fight with kg. I see, because the upper is the more important. Small tubes mean thin springs, thin springs mean soft suspension, soft suspension means less traction, which is means soon or later accident.
@@motorcycleadventures the upper part isn't more important, but it is the longer part ( on an inverted fork....) The longer part will always get more flex. This why the inverted forks are more logical. The long part is beefy. The short part being short won't have that much flex. On the older forks, the long part is the skinny one and the beefier part is the short one near the wheel. It doesn't make sense, except that maybe the tubes are more protected from rocks, falls and such, the exposed tube section being above the wheel is less likely to get damaged... And yes, they make them bigger and bigger on the outside, and maybe also bigger and bigger on the inside as well, with thinner tube section. to have more space for the springs and oil. And less weight. One thing to consider as well. A small día. thick tube might be less rigid than a larger diameter with thinner wall section.....Even though it might be counter intuitive and as long as it isn't paper thin of course.....
I've never watched anyone talking so honestly about all the tricks the big manufacturers use to convince us we need the most technological advanced and heavier bike to have the best time of our life on the road, like you Pavlin, well done!! 👍👍
Glad it was helpful!
The only traction control & riding modes a motorcycle needs ,is the rider .The more fancy gadgets the more to go wrong & the more expense when it does go wrong . Good video well said 👍
Yeah I agree. Thanks for taking the time!
I can never seem to control the traction on a manhole cover on my way round a corner. I've never had ride modes. Usually rain and road.
@@chrishart8548 The art of dealing with poor traction in the rain on manhole covers in the road ,is to use the good handling of your bike & your skills as a rider to avoid them 👍
I agree with alot of your points. I did a 6000km trip this summer on a brand new yamaha tracer 900gt. I had engine problems 3000km away from home, nobody knew what or how to work on it because its all electronics and there were no official yamaha garages anyway. I managed to get it home and it was an electrical unit that controls my throttle response that didnt function properly. And this is usually the problem with new motorcycles.. soo much electronics and so many things that can break and not work properly. During my trip i saw alot of guys on old motorcycles never an issue and the brand new ktm's and hondas and myself all had problems. The owner of an africa twin dct his motorcycle was stuck in second gear after he went offroad and his dct unit got hit with something and malfunctioned..
Well... this is what we call hard learned lesson!
Wise words Pavlin 👏 I recently bought a simple budget bike, an RE Himalayan that suits my size and skills levels and would rather spend the difference on some off road training and my intended travels! I was briefly tempted by a very lovely lowered BMW but came to my senses! Cheers Jackie
Cool! Enjoy it!
Great video Pavlin. Something else I'd like to add is the role of cheap finance in inflating both the cost and complication in modern motorcycles. It goes like this...manufacturers compete to build more and more powerful bikes they can market. Then they need to add fancy electronics to make these 150hp+ machines ridable by Joe Average. This puts the price up. Joe is sold on cheap finance, which means he can afford these bloaters. So the race goes on. We are being turned over.
Yes, the wheel need to spin over and over again...
Euro V Emisssions force the bikes to run lean and cleaner.... The extended oil changes .. are pushed for Enviromental reasons and can be lengthened .. some from a cleaner burn ..
True
Though I have probably the most “advanced” road motorbike at the moment (2021 1290 adv S) and it is by far the most enjoyable motorbike for “me” (ie: For my very personal requirements🙈),
I still agree with your view.👍
Here is the general problem for the manufacturers the way I see it:
Whether you build a 500 cc with bare minimums or a 1500 cc with every advanced tech imaginable,
you STILL need that “same” multi mullion dollars worth of huge assembly line and all the complicated and expensive corporate structure to make the brand!
So, you rather try to market “high end” but complicated and fragile models which has far more profit for the brand than a “normal” yet more robust model!🤷🏻♂️
Best regards🙏🖖
I perfectly understand the manufacturers. In fact they build what the market ask for.
@@motorcycleadventures that's a Truth.
I think the manufacturers are continually caught up in marketing hype against their competitors as well, especially in the higher priced models. Also evidenced by the continual increase in CC's for the engines. The GS went from 1000, 1100, 1150, 1200, 1250, and now will be 1300... where does it stop? Great bikes I have an older 11 1200 but the new ones have become too much for me. Same on KTM lineup, even with their middle weight bike. Almost like people shopping for a laptop and looking for the biggest ram or harddrive with no idea what they need. Even on my older 1200 most of the time by myself I find myself wishing for something smaller lighter and easier to work on. I absolutely love the feel of my old R75/5 and to be honest it can go almost anywhere the 1200 GS can and I can work on it anywhere with basic tools.
Thanks. Another common sense video.
I love my bike and car to have a few "gadgets" as possible so there are less things to break. I've lost my battle with my car but my simple RE Himalayan keeps me happy.
My pleasure!
The three most important things to me are reliability, reliability and reliability.
I know that many cashed-up riders of, um, 'middle years' love their hi-tech toys, and the nanny aids on many modern bikes do make for a safer, easier riding experience, while allowing you to steer with the rear, and even wheelie like a pro without yeating into the sun, or looping your bike. That said, all I really want is to have confidence that I can get from A-Z without the intervention of Techy' with a computer terminal.
Keep it up Pavlin 👍
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Jason!
Yesssss! So right. Great cautionary advice. Thanks
Any time!
You are perfect right . Y have an old motorcycle Yamaha Diversion , xj 600 . No ABS no traction control , no injection (carburator) and no electronics . Only one single problem : the noise in gear box .
I can live with it!
Great imformation thanks I'm learning from you all the time
Glad to help!
Bravo!!! It was time that someone made a video about it. The last couple of years I hear way to much marketing bullshit regarding motorcycles that simply turns my guts around. Almost every magazine promotes expensive motorcycles with tons of electronic gadgetry. Almost none talks about chassis, engine realability and built quality. You buy an expensive bike with a lot of electronic sensors that won't start...
Thanks for taking the time!
Great video!! Thanks for share your criteria!
My pleasure!
Thank you, Pavlin, it's about time that one courageous guy says exactly this. One of your best videos. Keep going, my friend!
My pleasure!
True, the more whistles and bling your bike has, the more breakdowns you have. Period!
Agree!
Bought a 2015 tenere without abs at 12.000 km. Im absolute happy with this decision.
Xt660z?
@@chrishart8548 Yes. Had couple problems at the beginning cause of less usage but no big deals. 50 horse power and the tork is more than enough for what i ride.
Enjoy it!
@@Binaenaleyh1453 the torque is nice on those big singles really snapy I almost bought a kawasaki klx650 1996 was so tatty though all the paint was coming off the frame and engine. Lush bikes even now. Do a Google search. Looks like a proper enduro light usd forks. To expensive for the UK market and sold the same time as the KLR650 around £4,500 for the klr £6,300 for the klx if I remember and £2,800 for a kmx125 (2stroke)
Good advice!
Thicker forks are better, but they already are a lot thicker than say 20 or 30y ago. It doesn't have to get ridiculous. With an upside down fork most of it is the outer tube, also the part that has to take the most of the impact, so I think it's fair to specify the outer diameter. Diameter doesn't say everything about the strength of a tube, the wall thickness is also important, and the material.
If the bottom part is not important, why all dirt bikes got 48mm. KTM 990, 790, 890 R version as well? Okay. Also, all dirt bikes and more dirt-orientated bikes got 48mm inner tubes? Even that they always fight with kg. I see, because the upper is the more important. Small tubes mean thin springs, thin springs mean soft suspension, soft suspension means not enough traction in many situations, especially on dirt roads which is means soon or later accident.
@@motorcycleadventures The bottom part of An upside down fork is also important, but a little bit less than with a classic fork. A classic fork has the thinner part at the top where forces have more leverage.
Of course I know that. In the video I was talking and showing only upside down forks.
Wow ! Thank you Mr Pavlin , you are the encyclopedia of practical motorcyling
Thanks!
The Indian FTR 750 has Babbot flat Bearings and needs a Rebuild every 40 hours .. the Harley Davidson XR-750 has some Ball Bearings and must be rebuilt every weekend.. In a 12 minute race 40 hours is a long time .. the whole season basically .. If you don't get to practice a lot
It is what it is!
Pavlin you have nailed it!
I have been in the market for an affordable reliable adventure bike in the midrange and all you have is big engine bikes with far too many unecessary bits on them that seem to create issues.
I rode an XT500 for ten years and only opened the engine after 100 000km.
Just look at the reviews on these later models and you will see that reliability is no longer the selling point.
I find that many of the 650cc adv bikes in circulation are generally old with high mileage and possibly hammered.
Because these bikes are becoming rare in that engine capacity, people are asking huge amounts if they are in excellent condition.
In terms of reliabiility and simplicity the choice is limited and the new Tenere700 is not affordable to most of us.
It is what it is, Lucio!
That is so true, you can't get your electronic fixed in the middle of nowhere with no cell phone reception simplicity is key to remote travel especially here in Australia as you know 👍👍
Absolutely!!
I agree with all you said, I can buy any bike and I just bought a 2022 Honda xre 300 to ride the mountains of colombia. Other than cosmetic changes which i really like, they have included abs which I think is a valuable feature even though I’d prefer it off on carreteras destapado “off road.” All the other gimmicks…especially on the ktm..I don’t want to deal with for the many reasons you stated. Glad this vid came out…kinda validated my decision which took me a while to make.
Thanks for taking the time!
I agree. Reliability and quality are hard to quantify and explain to a buyer, while features/electronics speak for themselves.
The quality and reliability could be seen in many brand and models. It just takes a bit of research and patience to find it.
perfect ending with the comparison of expensive airplane and bicycle! :-)
Great video, I have enjoyed the honesty behind all of that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Glad it was helpful!
I have a 2020 KTM Adventure R which just turned 20000 km. Twice in that time my TFT went black. I turned the ignition off and back on and everything returned to normal. I have taken the bike on some rough trails and in 1.5 years it has never let me down. Technology is here to stay so you better get used to it.
We will see...
Just bought a new bike, it became a V85TT. Now dismantling my dinosaur, an R1150GS. Became too heavy, however a fantastic bike, put over 100000km on it under 6 years! There has been a lot of gravel.
Guzzin is has a little "lull lull", ABS, 3 driving modes and anti spin. Satisfied, so far ....
Have fun!
Great advice as always full of common sense let me begin with in my country you can't test ride new motorcycles so you have to rely on reviews to even get a hint of how the bikes going to operate. I'm going from a very simple bike Moto Guzzi V7III and I'm going to trade it in on a big Sport touring bike with as much bells and whistles as I can get why for the experience just like you would like to have the experience of a very expensive car or very fast car I would like to experience as many bikes that I possibly can I started out late riding and I do have limited funds I've had a cruiser I have the modern classic now I want to try the luxury version. And if it wasn't for your great reviews on bikes you're great reviews on travel and equipment and all the stuff that goes with it the only thing I would be riding right now would be my sofa thanks again for all you do.
Thanks for taking the time!
I agree you Pavel with 100%.
Around the world you will still get a good new bikes like DR 650´s and KLR´s, but not in Western Europe/Europe.
If You like to travel with a small "beasts" like a YBR 125, things are the same...
What a shame.
It is what it is!
Completely agree, I like the basics 1 Rider mode, no abs with good brakes. I like my fuel injection too.
Good!
Fabulous video Pavlin😊👍. Keep telling it like it is!
Thank you, I will!
I agree man. Saludos desde CDMX (México City)
Thanks!
KLR 650 or Tenere700 both are minimalists and I love it
True! They are the last Mohicans!
Honda cb500x
I agree completely with your views..as I always ride solo everywhere, the simpler and lighter the bike is better
Good!
An Excellent and Informative Piece of Work!
Thanks!
Well, we wouldn't get any motorcycles if other people didn't buy them, and the more they sell the better for all us who buy.
But as to these fancy accoutrements, I'd like to see them offered as options. Take traction control for instance: whether that's a good thing or not depends on the operator. It may be of great benefit to less accomplished operators. But for me, I learned without it and have been riding over half a century without it, and I want my bike to do what I tell it. If I don't want to spin the back wheel then I won't, but when I want to then I want it to. It could mean the difference between accomplishing what I want to and not being able to. So it's not for me. And I don't want to have to be turning it off all the time.
I agree to have them as offered as options is great but...
Tcs might make you crash .
There's the liability aspect. In the US at least some asshole will try to blame the equipment manufacturer for his own mistake. And they could claim that since the technology was available the mfs should negligent to not use it.
And then there's the profitability issue - those who benefit monetarily are likely to push the govt into requiring their stuff. And they can easily rally the "do-gooders" to their cause, they need a sense of worthy existence.
New motorcycle riders are hitting the public roads with no experience and no sense. They didn't grow up riding dirt bikes, they didn't even learn riding in the dirt first as adults -- this is their target audience. Instill a perceived sense of safety with technology. Proper training would be much more effective but the reason it doesn't become a reality is because, let's face it, too many people are secretly entertained by others getting hurt and dying.
It is exactly as you said! I want to ride a Motorcycle and not a Computer.
Good!
You are absolutely right... my Transalp has now at least 100tsd km without any problems and two days ago I got the option to buy exactly the same model with only 20tsd km from first hand... and I bought it... not any control systems but first class reliability
Great! Enjoy it!
I like your point of view. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Love this simple is better video.
I can relate to the new airplanes and a simple bicycle story.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much for always posting important useful and interesting videos You are always WELCOME !!!👌👍❤️
My pleasure!
I think the marketing department and stricter emissions standards are combining to make more sophisticated, but possibly more problematic motorcycles. The motorcycle industry wants to sell more motorcycles, but the prices are getting too high in some cases.
True
I had an epiphany 4 years ago. I sold my modern bike, dragged my old 1984 MZ out of the shed, fixed it up and found it to be more fun especially on really dodgy tracks. I can drop it and pick it up like a bicycle without getting off the bike.
Cool!
Beer after beer 🍺 and I will become an alcoholic watching your videos Pavlin!😄
Go for tea man!
@@motorcycleadventures No way, beer 🍺 is just fine!
Now that's funny! This why I enjoy the comments as well as the videos.
Great topic, thank you for all valuable information.
Glad it was helpful!
Genuine honest advice
Thanks!
You convinced me once again not to sell my GSX650F, which is excellent for my road travelling, sometimes a little sport - you know ;-)
Good!
Excelllent point, but I'm bias. My tenere is perfect
Good choice!
Well, I love my Africa Twin. I don't mind the weight for what I use it, long distance all-road touring. If I were to travel to a remote, wild-offroad place with no services around I'd probably take the CRF 300 Rally or even the T7. I think you should pick the right bike for what you really do. Also, money is very relative. As you said, if you are really worried about money and reliability just travel the world on a steel, single speed bicycle. Everything else is luxury.
Thanks for taking the time!
excellent video ... no wonder bikes like kawasaki concur gtr 1400 are still so sought after ... no upgrade of bullxxxx electronics ... good old road beast
how do you grade the gtr 1400 kawasaki
Old engines used those 'shell bearings' to...
Yes, but many don't.
@@motorcycleadventures Huh? Many did. Multi cilinder engines all used those bearings (XRV, XTZ, Cagiva...). Single cilinder engines just didn't.
You were perfect clear. It's my opinion too. Best regards! Go on and ride safe!
Thanks, you too!
I ride a Cb500x 2020. I use it for travelling round country lanes, the odd dirt road and occasional motorways, purely for pleasure. If I wanted to use it off-road a lot I would have to spend 2 or 3 thousand pounds or more on new wheels tyres and beef up the suspension. For the upgrade cost and price of the bike I could have bought a new Tenere 700.
But if I was going to travel long distance and on harsh terrain I would have bought an Enfield Himalayan, easy to repair, maintain and half the price. Possibly put a new uprated cam in the engine to give it a bit more poke. I might buy one yet to play around on!!
I am really enjoying your videos, keep them coming and stay safe.
Royal Enfield!!! It was everywhere last year but not anymore. Of course even Itchy Boots gave up! My opinion about this bike you can see here: ua-cam.com/video/qcJ3TZhnbTQ/v-deo.html
I did test-ride a 2021 Himalayan a few weeks ago, it was ok, but I am nearly 6’2” and my knees kept hitting the indent on the fuel tank, which would need some sort of padding.
When I bought my honda last September there was a 660 Tenere for sale with 3000 miles on the clock, one of the last ones they made but the garage wanted £5000, I could have maybe got the price down a bit but decided on the new Honda. What put me off was getting body panels for it if I dropped it, as they are not made any more.
I'm sure you've discussed this at some time but perhaps people could spend all the bling money and take out time for riding school/instruction and practice. And perhaps spend the first bit of money on a new bike in getting it properly setup for ergos and get the chassis balance right for THEM
I agree.
I agree with you that too many gadgets do not inprove the reliability. Yes, the first priorities are a good enfine, suspension and Brake.But you will not get any new bike without any electronics because of emission regulations and the need for ABS.
But there are still quite simple and good bikes in the market. I do my travelling onroad on a 2020 Suzuki V Strom 650.
Cable clutch, no ride by wire, no tft display, no electronic suspension for an affordable price.
This bike has a bullet proof V Twin, which became rare these days. The power is very controllable and the 70 HP are more than enough. This is an engine which allows a high milage.
The stock seat is really comfortable.
Quite low fuel consumption and a good range on the 19l tank.
Okay it is not the bike for hard offroad or the race track. I do not think this suspension is build for that purpose. But on normal roads this bike is perfect for me for traveling.
Ride it and enjoy your life!
Thank you for the INTEL
Any time!
6:45 wrong information. The tubes are measuring 45mm!
... CRF1100
Ok, not go to measure CRF 1000
Awesome info as always, great to see you back from `turkey healthy and well.
Thanks for taking the time!
Interesting - what oil Taliban used for their 40-50 yo bikes ? It looks to work best.
Media power!
I agree, thanks
Any time!
I watched most of your videos and while I enjoyed ones with travel content, some others like this one, less so.
Some of the things that you said in this video make sense while some are not accurate and some some are plain misleading. When it comes to engine oil weight 10W40 you got it wrong there (a lot).
What 10w-40 means is that the oil must fall within certain required viscosity limits at 100°C.
Water cooled engines on bikes (that are not that performance stressed) run at around 80 to 90 DegC so based on that 10W40 could not be used in those engines at all. Is that right ? So we'll start bike at let's say 18degC and within 5 minutes engine will reach 90Deg (oil will be close to 85deg). How does that work for 10W40 oil in Yamaha Tennere, that you said can use only if you are planning to run the engine in ambient of up to 25 DegC ? You have shown diagram of viscosity vs ambient temperature but did not explain it at all.
Some of the electronics features I agree are over the top but we just cannot opt out of them so we get them for free. They are not going to reduce bike price if you opt out of some of them.
One thing I disagree with you are safety features...
ABS, Cornering ABS, Traction control You or anyone else don't need until... Well, they need them...
They have saved many people from lengthy stay in hospital. Saying that you prefer to ride without it makes sense off-road. On a paved public road everyone should have it on (track is different thing altogether).
If you prefer to ride without ABS on paved road than it is your personal preference, as you said.
Is it wise ? I would not say so...
Saying that one doesn't need it is like saying that you don't need a car with Airbags as you never use them (would you turn them off if that was possible ?), or you don't need to use seat-belts in a car as you never have accident. We can go on forever with examples.
You don't need to agree with me. The idea of this video is to show you the reality. As I said in the video make your own research. About the oil, especially 10W40 you are completely wrong, but I hope that you will never understand it the hard way. Safety features are great but not on behalf of the main three - Engine, suspension and brakes. Thanks for taking the time, anyway!
@@motorcycleadventures There are some things in your video that we can agree and disagree about for sure. I agree with some of them. However, I do not agree with you misrepresenting engineering parameters that are well defined and known. Claim you made that one can use 10w40 only if they plan to use engine in temperatures around 25 degC is wrong and it hurts your credibility. I am sure many will agree.
You used oil grade viscosity comparison chart. And that is only what it is, "comparison chart". That chart only represent comparison of various oil grades at certain ambient temperatures, not their performance over the range of temperatures. As the matter of fact most of the mineral oils will work perfectly OK up until operating temperature of 120degC, while synthetic will go bit higher.
I'll suggest that you also do some due diligence fact checking in a future when you are quoting common engineering facts, as some of us did:
www.penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Viscosity/237/What-is-an-SAE-Viscosity/180
No I did not take it hard way. I am confident that I am not wrong.
I am aware of everything you said and this study as well, but you missed the fact that this is a perfect oil in perfect conditions. Which you cannot get. First because the motorcycles, at least most of them run wet clutch, which is means a lot of thin parts in the oil. Second, the temperature of the oil easily goes over 100 degrees, especially on very hot days. Even the link that you shared shows that. The third is that I know very well how the engines that use only semi-synthetic look like and what is the difference inside the engine after many km. Do you know that full synthetic oils release much fewer end products, compared to minerals or semi-synthetic oils? So the engine might be okay in this temperature with 10W40 for a while, but in long term, it will be catastrophic. Have you ever open an engine on many km to see what is the situation inside or did you just read the studies, usually funded by big oil companies? I have at least 3 cars and 5 motorcycles in my personal life that reached a huge mileage without any mechanical problems to prove my theory and even my last Tenere is on 187,000km still in perfect condition. If you are not aware, this is a world record for the model. On 200,000km, I will open the engine and I will film all the elements inside. I did it once on 160km after I use only 10W60 full synthetic oil.
@@motorcycleadventures Yeah I do know thing or two about mechanical engineering, motorcycle, car and other engines and it draws its base in my formal education that is related to all this. I could answer your question from your video about why motorcycle engines are not using roller bearings on crankshaft instead of sliding bearings but will leave that to someone else.
There is no conspiracy from motorbike manufacturers when it comes to what type of bearings are used. There are valid technical reasons behind that. I am also doing same things as you do but do not travel as much as you do these days, and also whenever time and other commitments allow, I maintain them myself. Yeah I am aware of all the benefits and drawbacks of using synthetic, semi-synth and mineral oils and I do not get my info from internet reviews. I get it from more reliable sources.
Yeah, I owned number of motorcycles over the years (single cylinder, twins, triples, 4cyl) and yes I did overhaul them. Some of the smaller ones did not survive rough Australian roads and off-roads. In all cases, engines were always fine but everything else was falling apart after being shaken for thousands and thousands of kms, dropped countless number or times in outback, etc. I know how engines look from inside. Engines are always the least of the problem. They are easy to maintain. Chains, sprockets, forks, gearboxes, steering heads. tanks cracking, they all fail lot lot earlier than engines.
Somehow over the years I've settled down on big bore GS bikes. Smaller bikes came, stayed for a while and went but big ones stayed. I know that you don't like them but they served me well. I own two right now (one has 194,000 km and another 118,000km). I used them over the last 20 years quite a lot and reason I've settled on them is very little maintenance they require.
First one is basic noABS 1150 model, newer one is 1200 model and has all the bells and whistles you mentioned that we don't need.
I can claim that I have enough of first hand info to disagree with your view on ABS, Cornering ABS, Traction control, electronically adjusted suspension.
Having them on doesn't make anyone more or less capable. It is just good idea to have them just in case.
Good and informative video!! 👍👌 This is why i am looking for a good used Honda dominator or xr650l or tenere 660z,the one you own!)) I want a machine for traveling,not for fancy electronic stuff!)
Good choice!
This is brilliant
Thanks!
Pav always have sound words of motorcycle wisdom. Concur with many of his points outlined in this vid. My additional two cents to this vid is if you can purchase a quality well-built motorcycle for a very reasonable price (i.e. without all the fancy electronics, etc.), and that it can take you just about around the world or across the US if you live here, why not do so? For specific name brands that've been in business for a long time, which overprice their motorcycles, all we are doing is paying for overpriced motorcycles with a few electronics that somewhat control the stability of the motorcycle. During many bike reviews I've watched, I barely hear the reviewers speak on electronics improvements. They almost always speak on the bike's specifications, handling and performance, rarely interfacing with all the expensive electronic capabilities. I guess I'd have to go into specific motorcycle forums to get that kind of intel. Anyway, needless to say is that half the electronics capabilities won't even be used, even among some of the most tech savvy minds who truly understand the software capabilities the bike comes with.
And as far as the large amount of HP and torque are concerned, we can legally use so much of it without killing ourselves or violating traffic laws. I'm solely addressing these comments to the low budget motorcycle enthusiasts who want to weigh their future purchase cost on the information Pavlin provided. A $12K motorcycle can just as easily get you to and from the same place as a $25K motorcycle with just as much comfort. You can always upgrade your motorcycle to your liking as your budget allows. Having said that, I've eyed the Africa Twin long before they changed the engine and increased price of the new 2020 model. I'm not keen on purchasing a used motorcycle therefore I will purchase one of the new model ATs soon. I like the large capacity fuel tank and its quality built engine. My second choice would be Yamaha T7.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
What do you think about plastic gas tanks?
Maybe a video about it, for long distance traveling etc. Didn't spot it in your channel
My bike is with plastic tank. The only problem that I found is that you cannot use magnetic tank bags. That's it, end of the video!
plastic tanks might be a + with all this E10 fuel going arround (in Europe). Which is funny in a way, they put ethanol for "sustainability" reasons and that leads to using more plastic for the tanks so they don't rust .... modern logic
@@ioandragulescu6063 I don‘t know how you came up with that „logic“… Motorcycles and other vehicles had plastic tanks even before they introduced unleaded fuel, let alone E10. BTW, they started adding considerable amounts of Ethanol to petrol since the oil crysis in the 70s. Also you can still get all the old „E5“ you wish for at any fuel station in europe.
@@whatsgoingon71 ok ok, hold your horses. Good or bad, it's my logic and I stick to it :)
The new discussion from Palvin... motorcycle bussiness...
Whatever comes!
Привет, Павлин. Ако плануваш пътешествие в Австрия - драсни. Поздрави от Грац. Ride on!
Мерси!
100%agree except humble WP Apex is way better than T7 KYB imho. Gracias por el video saludos! 🤠
Do you have a base to confirm that?
@@motorcycleadventures well I had Two Demo rides with T7 other two on África twin and one with 890S mainly onroad some light off. I also have friends with t7 and ATs. WP apex I consider the Same league ás ATs except on the travel. True that Rear suspensión on the T7 benefits from link geometry. Now I own 890R amazing suspensión and geometry for a sports tráil use✌✌
I Love t7 but I think the components are cheap considering the price of the bike 8500€ would bé a price to confider.
Only the time will show us what is cheap and what will survive many kilometers. I will always bet on Yamaha. Sorry, KTM are great bikes to ride, but not to own!
@@motorcycleadventures for a long trip Id shure bet for the Yamaha shure. Id like to see your trips on a T7! Arround the word.
Thank God Yamaha listened to what some of us K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) principle folk are looking for. I ride my Tenere in some of the most difficult terrain in southwest US and I ride alone a lot so reliability is HUGE for me CP2 unparalleled IMO, and #2 suspension which the T7 has great suspension for most folk, due to the aggressive nature of trails I ride and my aggressive riding I have had to re-valve and put in stiffer springs but with the savings I had from the purchase at 10K US compared to KTM etc. plenty to spare. Pavlin I appreciate your no nonsense approach and strait forward vids and info you bring to the table that comes from actual world travel EXPERIENCE, no arm chair destination Starbucks opinions. Keep it up
Agree ! Love my T700 and my CRF 300, none or witch broke the bank. Another thing the new electronic gimmics take away the real rider imput. A rider of 790 helped by traction controll, ride modes, throttle response etc, on the T700 in the same scenario will not do the same. Who is climbing that hill, you or the electronic intervention :) ?
True words!
"A rider of 790 helped by traction controll, ride modes, throttle response etc, on the T700 in the same scenario will not do the same."
Traction control, rider modes, etc.. does not all of a sudden make you shit at riding. A good rider will climb that same hill on both machines. A shit rider won't get up there regardless of the machine he's riding.
Great video. Very nice information.
Glad it was helpful!
Really true...
Thanks for taking the time!
I totally agree I have been sucked in with all the electronics on a pcp and to be totally honest as much as I enjoy riding this fully specked bike after 3 years all I have done is paid for the depreciation I’m thinking of cashing out soon.
So you learned the lesson the hard way, right?
The PCP also makes all the extras look cheaper. The TFT quickshifter etc only cost £3 a month more but when you hand it back you have nothing. You just bought the extras for the next owner.
What new mid size bike does not use shell bearings?
None!
Thank you sir for that sound advice
Anytime!
Modern bikes are much better to ride than old ones…I’ve been riding since 1974 and seen a great transformation. Cruise control - love it. Bluetooth to helmet - love it. GPS - love it. ABS - love it. Fuel injection - love it. Electronic suspension adjustment - love it. Anti dive forks - love it. Quick shifter - love it. Brakes, reliability and comfort is also much better. Traction control and corning stuff…yeah can leave that. Get used to it mate…it’ll be all electric soon 😁
It is what it is!
Hi Pawlin. Great video as always :) I got one question to you as im having some issues with my tenere 660z. Did You do something to disable deceleration fuel cut for better throttle response ? On the street its ok for me but on the gravel and offroad its very disturbing. How did You solve this issue mate? thank You and wish You all the best !
I never had any problem with the throttle.
Oil.
In engine is 90-100c temperatures. Why is beter 10w50 than 10w40 if I drive in some area where is outside temperatures 40c?
Engine might be 90 but the oil can get to 120 degrees.
I actually just bought a cheap enduro bike from year 2000 instead of buying a new motorcycle, just because of the electronics. I only want to go to a mechanic when I have mechanical issues with the engine. But I never want to have electronic issues. The moment you have electronic issues, it can happen again and again. I had this experience one time and want to avoid it.
Good choice!
That 21 years old and getting older. Wait till the parts start getting discontinued. All the electronic systems are here because of emissions and safety systems. Wait till traction control becomes mandatory like ABS did.
This is why bikes like the KLR650, DRZ400, Enfield Himalayan et al make the best RTW bikes.
Out of 2021 new stuff, the T7 is head and shoulders above anything else as Low tech (efi?) RTW bike...
True
All over a sudden I don’t feel so great buying my BMW GS1250, I don’t take it off-road I have a light weight Honda crf300l for that, the GS is great for 2 up touring and I love it
Every motorcycle has it's purpose.
As you already know, you convinced me a long time ago.
And i do not regret it. (T7)
One more question.
Did you already made a video concerning the oil regarding the riding conditions meteo etc....
And yes even with a service oil change foreseen every 10000 km I will service every 5000.
Thanks for your interesting subjects
Yes I have. Old video, not good audio but good information: ua-cam.com/video/Bhic1fisEoA/v-deo.html
Another great video.
I appreciate that!
Keep it simple and avoid the headache... Good video Pavlin and very true
I agree! Thanks for taking the time, Steve!
True! Marketing is Everything
Absolutely!