Guthrie Govan on the Pitfalls of Scale Shapes
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2020
- Back in December 2014, we caught up with guitar virtuoso, Guthrie Govan who shared some of his wisdom. Here, Guthrie highlights the importance of phrasing when learning new scale shapes. Learn more about DIME ONLINE courses at www.dime-online.org
This is the man who should be recorded as much as possible for the next generations to recognize.
I like the fact that you still have so much faith on the next generation considering all the electronic music that they listen to today.
Agreed
@@vulfkachnanajza4483 electric guitars aren't exactly gregorian chants are they
He is a genius
@@theworsttake They are the epitome of that
As great a player as he is, he might be an even better teacher. Love his attitude and wisdom regarding music.
Other good teacher (which I might consider as the best I've ever seen) is Frank Gambale. Check him out.
My favorite thing is he is excited to teach people new things even if over a video. Probably super nice in person too
Loved his old guitar techniques column. 👍
the trick in absorbing Guthrie's lessons is to not just give up playing after watching him
I would love to take lessons from him. Just please don't show up at my next gig, Guthrie 😂
Guthrie is good he actually inspires me to pick up my guitar 😂
😁
@@AstroSully
From u.k.
Same here, until I pick it up get so far then get stuck!
Very frustrating, considering my two lads have been playing
bass in rock bands for 18 yrs each!
Saw a baritone ukulele tutorial on UA-cam bigger and deeper
tone than the others.
Tuned D.G.B.E. like a guitar four strings, what’s not to like all over it
in no time!
An easy way out for me!
His loops always blows my mind... He's so good at it
Its funny how hes been doing loops for almost 20 years. My brother went to ACM in Guildford for 2/3 years back in 2004ish and Guthrie was one of his tutors. When my brother would come back home I'd hear stories of this guy called Guthrie who is just mind blowingly good... Sometimes, whilst everyone is still entering the class and walking to their seats, Guthrie would already been in the room messing around with some tune he's improvised and looped, not realising how insane he is, haha.
Fast forward to 2008ish and the dawn of UA-cam, its been great watching Guthrie get the recognition he deserves. Remember even being salty that HE should be part of the G3 tours etc, and how awesome it would be... Years later, now everyone knows how amazing he is.
And lastly, do you know who else studied at ACM Guildford and made a career out of using loops? Ed Sheerhan hahaha
3allz I love stories like this. My friend also went to ACM when GG was there. He would always tell me that this guy was just ridiculous. Like, you name it, he could do it. I’ve followed GG’s career ever since I discovered the first video I ever saw and heard him, which was the Larry Carlton track one.
His loops are better than most bands full compositions. He really is a guitar philosopher
He’s brilliant at everything !
@@3allz with respect, anyone even remotely plugged into the UK guitar scene in the early 00s knew Guthrie was an amazing player, even if it was just through his work on Guitar Techniques magazine.
When I see a Guthrie video I like the video first and then I watch it.
He does in 2 minutes what others try to do in series of 3 masterclasses. This man is a living legend.
A musical genius. I could listen to him all day
It says “pitfall” of scale shapes. It does not say “don’t learn scale shapes.”
Everyone learns them by shape at first - everyone. It’s how you learn to play them after you learn them by shape. He’s basically saying don’t do three notes per string scale runs. Learn to be fluid and melodic.
I agree. I could never do the things on a guitar that I do today if it weren't for the five shapes of pentatonics back in the days. They are the walls of a house, and the musicality in between is the interior.
@@kimmossige263 I've always referred to the penta as the skeleton, but walls of a house is an even better analogy haha
Definitely, I don't think you can have the level of control that Guthrie has on the guitar without practicing scales and getting the muscle memory, once you have that it's really easy to come out with more musical phrases which for me would be the next step.
I started learning shapes but quickly switched to slide guitar and learned everything horizontally on every string. Now I navigate the whole fretboard with and without slide having no need for or awareness of the shapes! I recommend learning scales horizontally to new players, with slide especially.
This video haunts me. Every time I do a scale run with poor phrasing I hear Guthrie laugh and ask “.. why?”
Haha nice Also with me now.
note to self: A_minor is a quality key
C major is too, I've heard....
@@davefx7949 E phrygian as well..
Well, I love D Dorian..
F# WHOLE TONE AUGMENTED
D minor: sad
A minor: quality
E minor: IRON MAIDEN
The way Guthrie speaks is a great reflection of his playing and composing. It's quite eloquent and elegant. Who else could describe a key as "quality key", and you think yes that totally makes sense.
Yeah the dude is obviously smart af
Is there not 1 big video of this particular series we can watch with all of his wondrous wizard like knowledge? These 2 minute videos leave me wanting more 😢
Yea Hey
Even his so called most obvious stuff @1:03 sounds much more musical than an average professional's special stuff.
Some of them licks were so freakin good! Damn that's some funky blues
His bending and phrasing blows my mind.
this video ended so suddenly it was like a slap in the face with wisdom
He’s exceptionally talented and humorous. 😂
"Check out what I can do now!"
"Why?"
This was easily the funniest way of explaining that particular problem lol
Another incredibly accurate (though quite obvious) observation from Guthrie. Would listen to the guy for hours.
Why doesn't this guy have millions of views?
He’s one of those guitarists that anything of his you learn will improve your playing. I messed around with Waves and even though I can’t play that song all the way through the interesting movements and riff construction changed my playing for the better.
Oh Dime Group you beauties!!
This hits the nail on the head, for me. My biggest struggle with learning the modes was not the notes themselves, but the practical application. I still haven't gotten it down. But one day!
Dude al these new videos are awesome! Great stuff!
Glad you like them!
I love this guy. What an incredible guitar player.
Guthrie is a musical genius and the way he explains things is second to none. Love everything he plays but how he plays it, simply too good!
I love when he makes fun of people. He's referencing me in every punchline
What an amazing musician and always has the best advice! Thank you for sharing this.
These are so fantastic and helpful.
Ok, this content has opened my mind. Thanks.
Very Important Lesson. .. Great Sound' s and Touch Filling. .. Thank' s so Much Mr. Govan ... ☺😊😀/💙💙💙/👍👌👏
He is such a good teacher, I wish I was as articulate!
last part is so eloquent and well said
He was a bedroom guitarist on UA-cam. One positive thing for this platform is discovering this genius.
Absolutely great advice from a world class player who also just happens to be a world class teacher.
Great lesson!!
Where is the rest of this vid? It was getting to the good part!
Extremely talented and wise man 👨 🎸
Amazing!
Absolutely love the way he thinks. Maybe that’s why he can do possibly any genre.
Wow! He’s just explained my playing in a 2 minute video
I swear, one could create an audio meditation series to fall asleep too entitled *Guthrie talks about guitar stuff*
Damn this guy is awesome.
Everytime l see him speak and play I'll get a Paul Gilbert vibe. Nice guys who are great teachers.
"The obvious stuff" was in itself a masterclass in bending.
It’s a right of passage, just getting out of it now. Finding modal pentatonics to sweep and strings to skip. I bend and vibrate a bit so it helps.
Probably the greatest piece of advice I've ever heard in regards to guitar improvisation. But he's also just identified the greatest struggle a guitarist will ever face.. Making the modes sound natural and intuitive is something special.
Then you realise all the exotic scales have 7 modes as well..... Then you cry and the real work begins xD
LMAO!! THIS IS SO TRUE!! But what is the answer? Ditch the modes and learn chord tones/arps?
I believe he gave the answer at the end of the video. To make everything you learn sound as natural / fluid as the stuff you are already good at. Which, imho, underscores his mentality about your own voice on the instrument. I believe he mentioned the same thing years ago that he's not interested in "erasing" you from the instrument which supports the statement in this video about technical ability over musicality.In the end, I think he's saying that you have to have a musical vision NOT just a desire to learn. Just my .02
so is there a guitar course with dime where we can get access to the rest of these Guthrie lessons in full?
So true. Modes are just a tool in the box, not the end goal.
I spent years thinking I should 'do' modes, but just not understanding them at all, and they just sounded like shit when I tried to use them...until I saw a Guthrie video where he talked about them as just the pentaonic with 2 extra notes...notes which might sound a little 'off' if you focus on them, but will sound right if you just use them while going to a more 'right' note. He said to use them like a dimmer, to fade them in and out with different levels of strength and accent, rather than an on'off switch. two minutes to teach me what I hadn't understood in 15 years. Such a great teacher.
"...A minor, a quality key...aww I guess that sounds A minor enough."
🤣
this guy gets it
Guthrie Govan is my hero.
Is there an 'auto-like' function in UA-cam for every Guthrie Govan video? Coz I would prefer that.
This man knows
the Jeremy Irons of guitar.
Great phrasing vs Running through scales is the musical equivalent of the difference between coherent communication and word vomit.
You know this is exactly what is wrong with my lead guitar playing. I really wish I had a better ear for recognising pitch because if I did and I learnt the location of every note on my guitar I could play what's in my head sonically, not visually
agreed. I have insane solos in my head which I can not transfer to fretboard
@@gustanoid everyone does 😂 even non musicians. That's the literal metric by which we measure effectiveness, how well you can express yourself on the instrument. It can be learned. Try practicing instead of lamenting!
Try skipping strings and starting on the 2nd degree of the scale when you skip and then the fourth degree on the next skipped string for the fuck of it.
My A minor pentatonic framework doesn't look like that though
But why did the video stop?
what looper pedal did he use?
“You put too much faith in the mode and expect it to solve problems for you which it was not invented to solve. It’s not enough to learn all the notes from lowest to highest or highest to lowest and then regurgitate then, because that makes no musical sense. Whenever you learn a new piece of theory whenever you learn a new scale part of your challenge is to make it sound as natural as the stuff that you know really well.” ¬- Guthrie Govan
The solution is take those notes that make modes distinct, and insert them into the pentatonic shapes. Like maj 6th into minor pentatonic for Dorian flavor
Bingo! It took me a long time to realize I should give up practicing modes as scales. If I want to make a Lydian sound, I add a sharp 4th into my licks / melodies
He's such a great guitar player. I wish he would put out more music. It's really sucks that he will probably no longer work with Steven Wilson again. This is a great lesson, but it's the same stuff that he's been talking about for at least 8 years.
Was there some issue with him and Wilson?
@@metalheadblues the impression I got was that there was some drama between Wilson and Marco Minnemann, and Guthrie is in a band with Marco, so he's kinda dragged into it.
@@ShredST Guthrie and Minnemann are just two clowns and that's why they will leave nothing behind them in terms of music..
@@michaelciancetta6397 you on the other hand left me feeling slightly nauseous so i guess that's something, steven wilson fan.
Michael Ciancetta and you are ?????
Hahaha i love when he just rips it and is like whyy? Lol 😂 too tru.
how can someone take classes with him in 2023 ? i mean private classes
🐐
Last tip was amazingly helpful
Mr. Govan is great and inspiring. Unlike many other musicians on UA-cam who a great but make me want to quit. I wonder why that is???🤔
for a minute i didn't realize he was using a looper...I knew he was good, but holy cow!
I am at a scalemate
Could you guys post the rest of this video ? Kind of sucks you don’t let us watch the part where he actually explains how to incorporate modes into our vocabulary. Basically a video that says “don’t learn scales” isn’t saying a whole lot
That loop...
How is that possible?
I know nothing about modes or scales but when i solo it seems to all workout.I prob learn the worst way ever and that is by trying to memorize all the notes on the fretboard and know what it will sound like before i pay them.
Once again, use your ears, choose musical options which inform the music and provide objective context
1:05 I guess the obvious stuff is to play this...... proceeds to in compass Albert King, B.B. King, Hendrix and Clapton in one tiny riff. 🤷🏼♂️ What sorcery is this magician using?🎸🇨🇦
At 02:03 a tasteful player comes back for a 2nd lesson having become Yngwie Malmsteen
Just like Hendrix and Paco de Lucía before them, Guthrie on the electric and Yamandu Costa on the acoustic today. Gods. Simple as that.
This lesson is sooooooo true lol
I find Guthrie tends to speak cold, hard sense in a very novel manner
Can we just stop messing around and assign the term “The Wizard” to this fella. He is a mystical quantity with his level of knowledge and articulation
"All of their phrasing has just evaporated" buurrrrnn
For the loopers out there: turn Ableton Live into a 16+ channel looper: m.ua-cam.com/video/NCEx5mT-2UY/v-deo.html
1:03 " You would obviously play this " Me " sure why would'nt I
The loop he laid down even though it was a minor sounded to me like it was meant for the major scale, LOL
Guthrie plays West LA Fadeaway by the Grateful Dead.
"A minor... a quality key" Hahahahah :D
Its right up there with E minor
It really is beautiful though
I love uppers too
Imagine him being your guitar teacher
I'd love to take lessons from Guthrie and Josh Smith. Oh, and once in a while Robben Ford.
I'm sure Guthrie and Josh would love to take lessons from Robben too.
:)
What's on the nut of his guitar?
It's a string dampener. Shredders use them to eliminate rogue drone notes when playing, only the notes you fret will sound and the rest stay mute.
So obvious really like if you have A lemon play A blues
The idea of his "obvious" is what I aspire to be one day lol
In a nut shell...Learning the scale is only the start....You have to phrase them with techniques.
Look what I can do! Weedle, weedle, weedle 🤣🤣🤣 So true 😁🤟
Gunthrie: The obvious thing to play over that. (Starts shredding sounding amazing)
Me: ..... I must be oblivious 🤦🏽♂️😭
Don't let the scale play you, you play the scale.
If John The Baptist played guitar.
That didnt tell me anything...!
No. That's not A minor "enough"!!!
Everytime I watch Guthrie...I think he should be time portaled back to 1968 and become the lead guitarist for Jethro Tull....lol