EDIT: The support on this video has been incredible! More than 100 new subs in 3 days. Thank you ❤. I imagine this video will get mixed responses but still, I call things how I see them. Remember to check for my twitch in the description! I stream every couple of days or so.
This is why everyone praises Menagerie being the gold standard of weapon focusing and the cup being the fact u get to pick the master work and then u get two perks taken off from that weapon so u don't get that perk and instead more then likely a weapon roll of what u wanted
I always appreciate Cammy's quote a while back, "I hope all of you who hate crafted weapons never get your god roll so you can enjoy the chase forever :)"
A fellow snipe lion enjoyer The only thing I don’t like about crafting is the enhanced perks as some aren’t just better they completely change what the perk is such as hip fire grip or incandescent
Back in Shadowkeep we had the hymn of desecration which guaranteed a weapon drop on your next encounter in Pit of Heresy, I don’t know why this doesn’t exist in every single dungeon.
Very good points here. I wish Bungie could come to the realization that players put this game down because they're completely burnt out on the endless, single-activity grinding necessary to get a weapon you want. Once you finally get it, you're just so sick of the game in general, you can't even enjoy the weapon once you've gotten it!
The reason I enjoy Destiny is because there are so many different weapons, with different perk combinations that I can put into builds and go play whatever I want, whether that's PvP or PvE and each time have a different experience. Chasing those guns is not the fun part to me, I know that it's different for everyone, I get that. If I had the option to hand craft the 600 slots in my vault but in exchange I can't have any current gear drop for me anymore I would take that trade all day long. I have coming up on 200 ogre clears and I have yet to see even a 3/5 Matador with Opening Shot. I have over 100 VoG clears, with thousands of spoils spent at the chest and I still don't have a 5/5 Found Verdict. It's miserable. Thankfully Conditional exists now so I have that, but if I didn't, like before it was released, I am at a disadvantage every time I decide to use a shotgun. I don't think they should completely scrap RNG chases, we saw how bland that was in D2Y1, but we do need there to be an option for each archetype that is craftable and can compete even if it can't quite match the perfect 5/5 RNG roll.
I think that while Bungie says the drops and rolls are completely "random," I 100% believe that the less desirable perks have a higher percentage to drop. So the rolls technically are random, but each perk has a percentage to drop tied to it. For example,say column 4 has 5 available perks, each perk does not have a 20% chance to drop. 1 perk may have a 20% chance, 2 may have 10% (most desirable), and 2 may have 30% (least desirable). Same type of thing with bounties. I'll pick up my 8 vendor bounties and usually have to delete certain ones that won't work with whatever build I'm using. I swear if I delete one, it seems like there's a 50% chance you'll get the exact same bounty again instead of the many other ones available. So many times I've deleted and reacquired the same one 2-3 times in a row before a different one drops.
I wouldn't be shocked, with matador in particular I've farmed ~80 matadors and had 1 with threat + opening shot. I had every other combination multiple times
We should be able to re roll barrel perks and masterworks. You would still have to grind rolls without having your perfect perks ruined by steady rounds, reload masterwork, and chambered compensator. Either that or give us 2 perks per column.
2 perks per column would be way better, if all you had to do was just re roll the weapon barrel and mag it would basically remove the whole point of the game. D1 had something similar in its time and it basically removed the whole idea of farming. Destiny is a looter shooter, crafting is great but at the same time they could fix a lot of the rng issues with random roll weapons with just having less perks. There are a ton of perks that have either been power crept out of existence or are just the same as another perk but with a negative(ie slickdraw vs quickdraw).
A nice QoL feature would be a toggle somewhere in game to just turn off armor drops. After playing a season or two you really don't need any outside of maybe an Artifice class item. If I want armor, the seasonal focus is far and away the best or I would turn the toggle on for armor drops and do Pit boss. This would at least make it so guns I seek would have a better chance to drop and getting those random 52 stat legs or whatever would stop.
For me at least, the thing that defeats the "cRaFtInG iS rUiNiNg dEsTiNy" argument is simply that I still have to grind for red borders. Thats it. I still have to play the activities, slog through the bad/boring content as well as the fun stuff, and collect 5 red borders in order to be able to craft my thing. Which is in itself heavily RNG based, and only alleviated by the guaranteed focusing of the seasonal stuff. Otherwise, I still have to farm the raid, or the exotic missions for red borders from seasons I didnt get to play as much. _I still have to put in work._ It's not like i just log in and Bungie says "here you go, god roll craftable weapon pattern" (Ammit aside). And at least this way, for many weapons, I know that at the end of the grind I will have a weapon with rolls I actually want and will use, instead of a random Hothead with Field Prep/Lasting Impression becuase it was the best one I managed to get. And thats not even touching the sentimental value. For me (and many others, from what I've seen) there is something special about being able to craft a weapon, make it yours, and grow with it. It feels like having your own iconic weapon, like how Last Word was for Shin Malphur. Something that identifies your Guardian as _you_ , because you made it and molded it and strengthened it.
Good Points in the video! Besides the RNG another important point for me is the investment of time. While an ogre-run takes about 2 minutes, a grandmaster nightfall can take up to 40 minutes to get one drop. For me it feels, as if i get tons of crucible engrams compared to vangard engrams, where I have to invest hours of time to get the 5 engrams, that I need, to buy a weapon from last season for example.
If the way the rolls worked was changed Crafting would have never had been needed, they had a chance with Beyond Light and Sunsetting and fucked it up. The best solution, imo, is having the mag, barrel, sights, grips, stocks, etc all be mod slots on your gun, and the perks and masterwork being the only RNG on the weapon. You level up the gun the same way you always do, and different gun mods have different costs. But to keep it simple, imagine how we mod our armor, well now you mod your gun the same way. Want steady or accurized? Throw it on. Want Arrowhead Brake? Throw it on there, go for it. Whatever combination you want to max the stats out how you like. The only catch is you need to get the perk synergy you want and the right masterwork. Your odds of getting the gun you want go up significantly, then you only need to spend time using the gun to fine tune it.
100% agree with the video, but my perception of Bungie is quite cynical. RNG seems designed to consume your time, ensuring you spend it in-game even if it means engaging in activities you dislike. They prioritize your time investment over the hope that obtaining your desired loot would motivate you to continue playing voluntarily.
Thank you. I appreciate your input on this topic. I have been so frustrated in so many activities,from competitive,Iron Banner, to dungeons, and Trials trying to just get a perk combination, let alone a god roll. I hope this video is acknowledged because it is extremely frustrating chasing rolls. Thank goodness for crafting.
I literally just spent last weekend farming the final encounter in grasp just to get an unrelenting/headstone eyasluna...90 attempts later and I STILL DONT HAVE IT!!! You are completely right
I completely agree with your points, I was farming the Grasp Ogre for about an hour and a half and only got 3 Matadors, all of which were trash rolls. It doesn't feel satisfying when I am forced to dismantle weapons I spent so much time trying to get only for it to not matter in the end.
I only have problem with crafted because it has mementos and enhanced perks which you cannot apply to your normal Godtier weapons, which makes them worse even if it cost you your sanity to get.
One issue I’ve run into most is raid exotic drops. I’ve run every raid at least 5-10 times each but have not gotten any rng exotic myself. Though sometimes my friends get it first or second try. It’s just disheartening to never get what I’m chasing when my friend who only ever plays when we raid gets the drop first try. Like why is it such a low drop chance when raids are supposed to be a pinnacle activity. I did Vault 10+ times I should have Vex by virtue of time investment
Exotic weapons from raids do have an increase percentage chance per clear of the raid. It took me 7 runs for touch of malice, but then it also took me 60 to get eyes of tomorrow. Exotic raid weapons are honestly fine Imo, but that's just due to the pinnacle of the activity, and that these weapons are just a plus in terms of rng. You don't really do the raids for much else once you get crafted rolls, so the chase for them should still be equally meaningful.
@@luminaaemor1293 It's been like that ever since d1, these are things that have been ok forever. People just want handouts nowadays. If its that big of a problem farm the raid when its the specific farmable week. You can join up into an lfg, or take a group into final boss and farm it over and over again until you get it in one sitting. A primary part of the game is its loot.
@@TripleDipped2 it’s not fun to run 10+ times with no reward. It’s not a handout I did 10 raid runs. Especially not a handout given there’s players that only ever do the final encounter and get it first try.
@luminaaemor1293 That's why you wait until the raid is the farmable raid of the week. Then, the farm final boss. You'll see the exotic within an hour or 2 of it while also getting loot every clear. The raid exptic from each raid is random chace, but increases per clear. Idk what's hard to grasp about that.
i wouldn't say that the rng is the problem, i would just say that bungie clearly doesn't think about what random perks are going to be on a gun. matador is the perfect example on a gun that is only meant for pvp, but can come with perks such as full auto still even when that's an option in settings, lead from gold, one two punch, swashbuckler. bungie just doesn't put the right perks on the right weapons, wasting players time.
I think crafting has helped the game be more consistent for players to get loot. Even when it’s not the right role a drop can help players get decent weapons. All crafted weapons arent meta breaking or defining in pvp or pve. Their are some great weapons. Weapon crafting makes the baseline to do well in destiny a linear path versus just RMG.
Only thing I like for grinding for rolls is getting me more practice in hard activities such as master raids and dungeons. Also helps practice encounters. Crafting is cool for those who are not good at mastering content or not stepping through raids or not having enough time. But all my god roll non crafted weapons mean something to me and not my crafted (insert weapon) that I probably won’t actually craft or is sitting in my vault collecting dust. I fortunately get blessed with RNG but even for those chasing god rolls the average player wouldn’t know the difference between 5/5 and just having the last two columns making it a 2/5.
Felt so good when I got my 5/5 matador, but I will never do that ogre encounter again lol. Also we need a dares of eternity rework so we can actually have a shot at farming weapons like fractythest and ignition code.
I love crafting. As someone who doesn't have a lot of time, the fact that you eventually can get the god roll is very nice. That being said I still use my trusty crafted bxr. I also crafted all the Halo weapons just for pvp. It's not the best but still fun.
Refreshing video. Heard too many people defending this game's RNG saying crafting is a "problem". I'm genuinely speechless that we're defending fighting against a mathematical equation of improbability, and we pay for it with our time and nerves. The biggest problem is that this is a Buildcrafting game and in order to minmax some of my builds and get things just right, sometimes I need a hyper specific random drop weapon roll and if I dont have said weapon roll, the build isnt happening. Bungie should at least let us change weapon masterworks for our random roll drops through some sort of system to curb the frustration casued by rng somewhat. i've like 7k hours and i still have nearly no random drop weapon rolls that i've wanted so far. I've a Mid matador, not a single pve sourced Bow be it Biting winds, and either of the vanguard bows, and Iron banner weapons are also a pain in the ass to focus for. it's getting ridiculous. I support your view on this so youve earned a sub. good video
Great video! One day I was farming Ogre on master with a couple of LFG folks and we must've of cleared it about 30 times.... The only thing I ever received was the titan mark or upgrade materials. Not a single matador. I eventually got a couple, but far from great rolls lol. I dismantled them except the one with threat detector and 1-2 punch because it had the best stats. Retold tale was another one. I farmed the blind well last season and only got a few of them. This season I farmed coil (doing the 1st encounter on repeat) many many times. I tallied it out and I only got 5 retold tales, mostly with horrible perks haha. When I finally did get a couple of QD/SS RT, the rest of the perks and stats were pretty bad, but I had given up at that point. My most recent woe is trying to get an OS/SS Occluded finality, but I settled with SS/Elemental capacitor since I could never get that roll. On the flip side, my LFG buddy got a SS/OS bite of the fox on his very first focus, got the god roll retold tale after 3 farms, and got a god roll riiswalker (I gave up on that one and settled for a slick draw iron reach lol) after 4 matches. He rubs it in my face lol
I've always assumed that even if crafting takes away from the "grind and fun of random luck", you'd still have to get fortunate with the pattern drops. Even if you got the patterns, you have to either dedicate time to leveling the weapon or use resources to jump into the deep end. And before you level the weapon to max and use resources to "perfect the weapon", you still will have to decide whether this weapon or another one would fit your playstyle and build(s). While patterns seem to take away the original core aspect of "loot-shoot-grind" that Destiny has used for years, the craftable system is better because it not only helps you to find that one weapon you would love to use anytime, but also incentivizes players to experiment with different weapons no matter what the meta says. You think you'll have more fun with a Prosperity hand cannon instead of Ignious? Go right ahead! Maybe you want to try that old Stochastic Variable smg without relying on Ikelos Sg v1.0.3? That's great. I think Bungie's biggest fear (and some players might think the same way for this) is that once people have the weapon patterns, they will not play the content anymore, or that there's no incentive to play again. While that is true in some cases (I can verify this with season 20 and 22 content on a personal level), there's always another part of the game that keep the players coming back. At least with the weapons collected from the patterns and crafted, you can experiment on a fun level anytime you'd like. Good luck with getting that non-existent 5/5 "godroll" when any weapon could potentially be good. Plus, patterns help free up vault space. Imagine how many players would be able to use their vaults correctly and freely if they got to choose which weapons from the pattern collection to create/level/perfect. Unlike random rolls where we hoard them and think "Uh, this might be useful later??", we just know that we can get it back later. Apologies to anyone who spent their time reading all of this, but hopefully it made sense. Cheers to you if you legit took the time or agreed. 😅
i guess the stark contrast between 0,06% dropchance and "just get 5 redborders, and you even get improved perks on top" makes it even worse to chase RNG weapons.
I have to say I would rather spend a known 8 hours than 1-100 hours for a role. I honestly like the crafting chase. My least liked grind is for dungeon loot even though I like those activities best.
I never minded the RNG back when raid and trials weapons used to drop with static rolls, like in D1 and early D2 Nor did I when they started being random after Forsaken, because then we had the curated rolls that dropped fully masterworked which helped alleviate some frustration My problem lies with the enhanced perks of Crafted weapons, the power creep is just insane, and whenever I get a weapon to drop that can be crafted, I don't even check at the rolls I just check if it's a red border or not; and after I craft the weapon, I don't even look at the drops anymore I wouldn't mind crafted weapons if they didn't have enhanced perks, or if they were way more expensive to craft and modify I do miss the simple times of pure rng
Exactly this! And many big name content creators are basically begging for “sunsetting” to be brought back. Imagine being blessed with a one in a million drop, only to have its usability literally taken away from you in a matter of months, weeks, or even days. The only reason people advocate for sunsetting to force everyone to bin all their gear, that helps give a closer to fair playing field, is fragile ego superiority complexes of try hards who want to look more “skilled” by shxting on “normies” not lucky enough to have the top rolls, so that they can abuse their pre-given game changing (or breaking) advantage, just because they no-life’s the first few weeks of the season and got lucky. There’s a reason every time Bungie has tried to implement sunsetting the player numbers drive off a cliff, only to walk back and reverse decisions to desperately attempt to claw back player engagement. Sunsetting literally incentivises not actually playing the game, and only hop on for the drip fed story, log off and come back for next story step. Why spend hours, days, weeks, months, even years to have but a chance of the perfect drop, only to have it taken away?
@@julius7539 That’s exactly what I did first in Taken King (Gave it a chance but the pure cop-out was plain as day), then again at Destiny 2 launch until Forsaken, and most recently from when it was announced in Shadowkeep to be coming back, I literally didn’t touch the game for over 3 entire years until season of the Witch, when I was told Bungie finally came to their senses and allowed player FREEDOM back. It’s no coincidence literally every time Bungie try to cater to the elitist ego lords and introduce sunsetting, player numbers basically die, and they have to desperately try and reverse the damage by providing free updates (April Update in Taken King) or best expansions (Forsaken) compared to the norm, in order to try convince people to come back.
If you could focus every weapon in the game like the playlist guns, it would be fine. Even with three perks in each column it still takes a while to get your god roll, but it’s a lot more manageable
On record: It's funny you specify that because at least with Banshee, Seasonal, Playlist and Raid weapons, you have the option to focus those. Dungeons still don't allow the same options that Raids have, and are not craftable at all, making the grind worse. And like you said, if it was possible to get multiple perks off of any weapon, some content would be worth the grind knowing you don't have to wait for so long. Off record: I like your YT icon. It's actually cool. :D
Bungie knows how punishing the rng is in this game. They also know it increases play time. They also know what rolls we want on guns. I’ve been farming that ogre for about a year now for the OS/TD Matador and have gotten every perk combo except that one🤔
Your first two sentences explain why they won’t change it either. But what they would love to do, is charge money for god-roll, but they can’t do that. So it must be hard to be this dishonest a company when it comes to a “looter/shooter” game developer. 🤔
I absolutely agree, it always frustrates me when I see people calling for the removal of crafting, because I hate grinding for God-Rolls, but I do like completing crafting patterns. Per your idea of targeting drops in dungeons and stuff, I would say that instead of making it a menu at launch, you could make it a series of Ghost mods for armor pieces, or like "Scout rifles" "hand cannons" etc, which could apply anywhere in the game.
This is a good idea if it gets fleshed out a little bit more, since they did just remove and optmise a lot of the ghost mods, and now you want to add more?? Maybe instead, in the activity collection tabs you can mark a weapon you want to drop more often and the drop table will just be more weighed in it's favor. Not a guarantee sure but if it was, we'd basically be back to Leviathan days just without the Static rolls.
You hate grinding for god rolls? Why the hell are you playing destiny then? That’s always been the main thing in destiny. The grind for the perfect roll
@@BeeyothGaming I fundamentally disagree. For me, Destiny has been about engaging with novel content, lore, and buildcraft. I am not opposed to putting in work to acquire a piece for the latter part, but I don't view spending hundreds of hours doing the same content (especially if it's something I hate, like Trials) to be the "main" thing in Destiny.
@@tyinyk For you maybe, but for the franchise as a whole its been about grinding god rolls. The game is quite literally about doing the same content over and over again. Which basically every other game like it is like too. It's been like this since 2014, straying away from rng loot being the primary focus is straying away from the core progression that destinys is known for. Which they did in d2 year 1, and that didnt work out so well
To add to the absolutely insane RNG the game has here's my experience with it: 1) It took me 1 year (68 weekly clears) for vex mythoclast to drop, It took me so long cause I got tired half way and gave up. 2) I have been grinding every Iron Banner week every day to get the god roll Riiswalker (Full choke / Accurized / Quickdraw / Iron Reach / Range MW) since *Season of the Splicer* , which is close to *3 years* and I *NEVER* got it.
I think crafting destroyed the player returning rate. On the other hand frustrating RNG is not the answer either. We need RNG bad luck protection and remove crafting
Crafting was a bad idea from jump . But Bungie only listens to the streamers and you tubers . They could care less about the majority of us so called random players. Even though their is way more of us . The devs ruined a game that I loved with their goofy changes .
Put it this way if Crafting WASN'T a thing I would have dropped Destiny 2 because i absolutely hate relying on RNG. Like the new Strand Bow and Pistol in Warlords ruin. I managed a 5/5 Bow on my first run but for the Rocket Sidearm I have a 3/5 and simply cba with it
I'm trying to get a very specific roll of Heliocentric QSC. I'm using the Master Lost Sectors with the sidearm rotating into the loot pool every four days, alongside three other weapons. So 25% chance to get a sidearm, and then the roll is 0.17% chance of dropping. Gross...
Ive gotten NOX PERENNIAL V to drop a ton of times not once have I seen controlled burst, not.. one roll. Meanwhile, Elemental capacitor and Wellspring show up every other Tuesday
@@thecanadiankiwibirb4512 That’s what I theorize. Given how frequently I see myself and others getting the same roll over and over again (I.e. ele cap on Nox). But I don’t have a way of confirming it unfortunately.
The worst part is that Bungie actually gave us focusing options that removed certain perks from weapon drops during Season of the Hunt. Bungie could totally do it again if they actually wanted.
Also part of your calculation is resting on the fact that the actual chances between perks are equal. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to find out that is not the case at all. After farming the Ogre in grasp for 12 hours, I had one single drop that had opening shot. There was a point I had 4 matadors dropping back to back, all four had full auto trigger and swashbuckler.
I think Bungie has said before that theres no internal perk bias but after getting the exact same roll on horrors least multiple times (exact same barrels, mag, mw, and major perks), I am skeptical to say the least
@@gothiclb I'm inclined to believe them. I am however, convinced their random number generator is garbage and spits out the same numbers consistently, which is why we get the same rolls constantly.
To be the RNG factor - as punishing as it is in D2 - would have still been bearable if the activities would be fun but the majority of them are too boring and repetitive.
I wonder if Bungie uses the same algorithm for weapons drops that they use for Strike rotation. I legitimately can't remember the last time I saw Exodus Crash or Inverted Spire, I don't even know if they're still in the game. The playlist seems HEAVILY weighted toward giving you those godawful PsiOps Battlegrounds over and over.
I loved crafted weapons because my luck with RNG is just terrible. The best drop I had ever gotten was a Fatebringer that had 4/5 of the perks I wanted on it. I said it was good enough for me. The reason I loved activities like Menagerie was because you had the chalice which allowed you to narrow it down to give you the masterwork that you wanted on the specific weapon and it reduced the RNG. We haven't gotten something like that in a very, very long time. There needs to be a better way to target loot farm what we want, whether it is some sort of lock in "give me only this drop instead of the rest of the loot pool" item. Pretty ridiculous that I'm still trying to get a Strident Whistle with Archer's Tempo + Incandescent multiple seasons later when I can craft Tyranny of Heaven now with enhanced perks, a better perk pool, and with the exact perks that I wanted. Armor from activities is almost completely worthless to me because I have the armor rolls that I need from seasonal focusing, which is a whole other kettle of fish. Over 50% of the loot I get is instantly sharded. That's ridiculous.
The worst thing was igneous was on Christmas weekend, not only did I miss time spending with family cause I knew if I didn’t farm I’d have to wait like another month for it to come back, I didn’t even get a SINGLE roll with keep away and EOTS…. I hate rng
Everyone just forgets why you play a videogame tho. Getting a good roll of a gun feels so much better and so much more rewarding than just crafting one and seeing oh yeah a billion other ppl also have this gun. Thats just soo boring to me. Compare it to emblems. People literally spend real life money to get an emblem JUST BECAUSE ITS RARE. A gun doesnt bring me any joy whatsoever when i dont feel like i earned it and i see others just have the same roll without putting up any effort. This game is still a LOOT SHOOTER. For the most part the more time you invest into farming a gun the more likely it prob is you already got a good roll.
@@northern_ranger7008 yeah but most guns arent essential. If you still dont have a 5/5 yet, just use a similar gun with virtually the same roll and stop crying about it. Not everyone in this game is supposed to have only the best loot, othwise just get rid of random rolls again so everyone has the same roll of the same gun again like in 2017 lmao.
@@northern_ranger7008 steady hand from ib if you still have one for example. But you can literally focus igneous lol you pretend like you focused a 1000 igneous hammers and didnt get a single usable roll and thats just cap at this point. An adept roll is not at all necessary since this gun has great base stats. You also get 2 perks in 4th column on the adept ones so ig people are out here complaining just for the sake of being angry idk man. I get that people complain about raid exotic drop chances, i agree you cant really substitute conditional in trials. But complaining about rng on legendaries is wild. There are soo few unique legendaries with rare perks in this game most guns can just be switched out for others that are gonna have a similar roll.
How it was implemented was the mistake for me. I would have preferred if Crafted Weapons were unique weapons you couldn't get anywhere in any of the pools in the sandbox. Something you actually had to craft like you did with Rose > Lumina. Or with the glaives. I thought that was the only way we'd get new glaives. With Khovostov (possibly) and Revision Zero being an example of a weapon that you craft that is customizable. FFXIV Does something like this where at the end of every expansion, there's always a unique weapon (per job/class) that you craft and upgrade for months that increasingly gets better and more elaborate. They did that with Revision Zero in D2 already. We could have had a Crafted pool of weapons alongside the World, Ritual, Nightfall, Raid, Dungeon, Crucible, Iron Banner, Trials weapons we already have. Rather than crafting stuff we either can get elsewhere but choose to craft a specific roll, something that was sunset or something that was moved out of one pool and into crafting.
The only people i see complain about crafting are influencers and people who play the game 24/7 most people dont spend enough time on the game to get god rolls on weapon drops. I was grinding for a god roll of the dawning fusion rifle every day of the event and didn't get one until my last engram of the last day the event before i logged off. Some people have lives and dont want to grind 2000 plus drops for a single weapon
I do agree that the biggest issue with the game's RNG is the inconsistency for its solutions. I've nearly ran two resets' worth of Trial ranks JUST to get an non-adept Incisor roll with both Sever and Hatchling, and I've yet to obtain it with a 1/49 chance to get those two perks together from one drop. If Trials weapons (even if it's only for adept weapons) offered two column perks, this grind would be far more forgiving to give me what I want rather than relying on pure luck.
This is so true I’ve farmed at least 50 adept igneous hammers every time it’s appeared in trials since its return and haven’t gotten the keep away precision instrument roll with good stats
I think the problem with crafting is the enhanced perks. They should have made everything below adept level weapons craftable and then put the enhanced perks on the adept level weapons and still had them RnG. That way people could feel rewarded and have their non adept god roll and still leave something to chase for the higher tier players.
I remember a Reddit comment on a post featuring this same discussion, which brought up how now, RNG weapons are basically now reliant on focusing, essentially resulting in this game turning back into Destiny 1 all over again where you're standing in front of Vendors for 2 hours.
Or you could be like me and not give a **** about rolls. Every Matador will one shot, so any roll will do me. You're complaining that you 'have' to farm for things when the reality is, you don't, you really don't.
Couldn't agree more. The Matador is a great example for me personally. I've spent so many countless hours trying to get the god roll - if I ever get it, I'm never going to play that dungeon ever again, because I'm so sick of it. Bungie's RNG literally ruined the experience for me. Forever.
I appreciate your perspective on here. I think there is no question that crafting has improved QoL for the majority of players in the game as it does respect our time. I do think we should also ask ourselves whether there are, or more appropriately *were* at the time they were dreaming up crafted weapons, other alternatives that would have solved the same thing. I think it would have been totally fine to simply increase drop rates, increase drop chances (e.g. you get 3 chances at 30% per activity completion), and increase multiple perks per column (without having to grind resets.) They went through all of this trouble to invent a new system (and then guaranteed it was superior by adding Enhanced Perks which IMO was a huge mistake) when they could have used a KISS principle.
Think about this, who doesn't LOVE being showered in loot? End of a Platinum Coil is like a kid in a candy store. Sure most will be an insta-dismantle, but it ups the chances of something good.
Friends say I have a talent for turning my brain off and droning on for craftables, didn't believe them until I realized every season I have every seasonal craftable within the first 3 weeks...
Sometimes even if I don't get a god roll, if it feels good enough with the perks it has, I don't even bother grinding for that weapon anymore even if it's craftable. I have the time, I just don't have the patience.
Lost sectors should be a role model. The weapon loot pools are small and drops are guaranteed. But the pinnacle of focusing is definetly Menagerie. The runes system was excellent, although if we were to apply this system to more activities, it would get messy. Runes used to drop from activity completions, which cluttered the drops columns quite a lot. My idea would be to add this system to all activities, but the activities would drop tokens or runes that could be used for that specific activity and it's loot pool. Also maybe display their drops as glimmer instead of gear.
This is a rough topic to discuss. I know a lot of hardcore players who spend 8h+ a day playing the game, and they hate crafting because everyone can have the best stuff. But on the other hand, I also know a lot of casuals, including myself nowadays, who love crafting because we don't have the time or willpower to farm for 8h a day.
Weapon crafting has ruined my hunt for the god roll. But farming ruined my enjoyment pf.tje game as a whole. Although rng is good to an extent, it ruins the flow of the fantasy like experience. Crafting has made me delete any weapon i get that is craftable. I found more enjoyment getting a weapon wuth a random roll, but at the same time, when the weapon's best roll is less than that of a craftable with the dame weapon frame, i just delete it too. I want crafting to be available for every weapon, but i want it to be managed better. Reward the grind after a while.
If you want to see the perfect random drop system - check out Division 2. It basically has a rotating pool of weapon types tied to activities. Like, “this mission has increased shotgun drops” or “Now this mission has increased helmet drops”. And there is “Summit”, where you can basically SET and choose what are you farming. Loot wise that game is done PERFECTLY. And oh hey, if you are playing in squad and a buddy of yours got what you need? HE CAN F-ING GIVE IT TO YOU.
Another thing like why can’t we just farm any dungeon we want. You have to wait for the dungeon to be farmable for matador or whatever gun you’re chasing but it’s only out like once every couple months lol.
Since forsaken has been out I’ve been on and off hunting for a 5/5 retold tale and I’ve just got one yesterday… it’s been 5 years since it was introduced into the game… I like weapon crafting a lot more than rng drops
100% they should bring back the 3 of swords concept from Xur in Destiny 1 but have it work on weekly rotator dungeons instead of night falls, that way people can target farm weapon drops and artificer armor pieces
This video brings up so many good points that I try and tell my friends as well. People will whine and complain abput how much they hate crafting since it ruins the grind then you'll lok at their loadout and it's level 100+ crafted weapons.
there were quite a few weapons that got sunset before I ever landed the rolls I was looking for. Not even like a 5/5, just the 2 main perks and still never got them. Hundreds of hours wasted with nothing to show for.
We need some kind of weapon rng protection in the game. Or at least a way to focus farm any weapon in the game from any activity. Like if you could use strange coins to focus farm weapons in the current dares rotation it would make getting the rolls you want like 100x easier
The joys of playing farm simulators. I remember to this day I never got in Diablo One a King's Sword of Haste bastard sword. The best I got was a damn broad sword after countless hours of playing.
Been saying for years how bad the RNG is in this game. We wouldn’t need crafting if they eased up on the RNG. We don’t need a million perks in each column
As a guy that does PvP alot and around times like this. They need to do something about Trials, and Iron Banner. Especially the drop rates. I don't know if it's me, but the drop rates during these aren't exactly good. Vanguard they give me my engrams after one strike, cool I'm good I can focus that. Trials and Iron Banner though I feel like they should increase the drop rate. I remember when IB weapons used to drop from Iron Banner after one match. And now I don't see that too often. Mostly because of the rank system and focusing. Focusing is good for the game, but sometimes painful PvP modes like IB and Trials don't necessarily drop weapons nowadays. Trials...I stayed away from Trials. Mostly because I do not want to deal with the worse things I come across in Destiny. But when I do, they don't really reward me for at least losing (at least that is how I see it). The only time I do get drops when I finish the pinnacle, and that's not good. Sure I mean it works, but I don't wanna do 20 rounds and be on a losing streak because of it. Something has gotta change, but I doubt Bungie will see it until we get a big content creator to talk about it.
Not just RNG. One more thing i dont see many people talk about is how crafting helped the vault space situation. I have said this to someone who advocates the removal of crafting, I would be fine with removing crafting, but not until you give me triple the vault space, 1800 instead of 600. 1 crafted weapon = all combination of said weapon. I can change my roll according to constantly shifting meta, and that is very valuable. Crafted weapons are also future proof, because any trash perk has the potential to be buffed to OP tier and for non-crafted weapons I would have to save up a lot of copies or worse, I did not save any copy of the buffed version.
Crafting is a band aid fix to the rng in the game but crafting also has its own major flaws and I think having a set of ghost mods that increase the drop rates of certain weapons e.g. smg focusing or maybe just primary, special or heavy weapons drop rate boost mods
The DAYS ive spent trying to get a good frat. From dares.. gave up months ago after my 5th or 6th reset.... yeah rng in this game is ridiculous. Great video though!
In D1 I farmed over 1500 Omnigaul kills for a god roll grasp. Never got the god roll. I'm currently farming 2 guns... I've gotten 5000 shards worth of drops, no god rolls. Bungie wants it like this. It's still >1:1000 odds to get certain specific rolls IF the gun drops.
The RNG in this game is why I basically only play PvP these days. Many seasons ago when you could target farm Menagerie or Sundial, you felt somewhat rewarded for your time. Now it seems like Bungie feels that quantity of loot drop is what matters, when its all garbage that drops, and less than .1% of that loot is kept. I dont buy the seasons or expansions anymore, and I dont even want to play other activities other than what I enjoy now. Too many seasons of grinding really bad content, with really bad RNG. We need more focusing options, and more ways to curb RNG. Crafting has its own issues, but its far more rewarding for your time than RNG farming anything. I target farm my crucible engrams on 2 weapons, for 2+ seasons and 40+ resets, and still dont have the roll that I want.
Random roll weapons have increased in rarity and decreased in good rolls. Crafted usually either has good options or are unused, and are much easier to get. I'm not saying crafting is better, theres just less good new uncraftable weapons right now. I have been aiming for a solar gun with Incandescent and Pugilist. Do you know how many weapons uncraftable that has that roll? Not many, but the BXR and every solar raid crafted weapons have it. That's my problem with crafting
Another point: farming is incredibly tedious to do and requires a group since you need to checkpoint swap (except for encounters like 1st ghosts of deep or 1st warlords ruin). For an encounter like grasp ogre, you literally spend more time swapping the cp than you do playing the game. That is moronic.
First time I have ever seen a video of yours and I have to say this is one of the best opinions I have ever seen on this topic, and it has how I have felt for a very long time. I hate most of the opinions on the crafting system because it always forgets just how god awful the RNG slot machine is in this game. I have grinded the ogre for GOA over 1000 times (likely will never go back in because it has burnt me out completely from every wanting to see that ogre ever again) and still only have a 3/5 matador at best. barrel shroud/extended mag/threat/opening/range mw is the best I could do. And it was only the third threat/opening roll in over 1000 runs I ever got (the other two were even worse than this by a mile). I won't argue that the crafting system is not perfect, but to say RNG was better and the game is "missing the high you get from finally getting a god roll" is so close-minded, ESP when you realize most times the best god roll you got was still overall not really a 5/5, but just so close you were willing to call it quits and accept what you got. Yeah I spend "less time in activities like raids, etc." with crafting, but I also finally have my time respected and get what I want quicker and get to spend more time in PVP which is where I wanna use the god-roll guns I get anyway. Thanks for the video and I hope it gets all the views it deserves!
Bungie should just let us focus the weapons and armor from the collections page. Its just a wasted page to look at the weapons and armor you have collected, it should have a way more functional use in the game.
hard agree, will never forget and will always be bitter about running master templar over 200 times in two days getting 40 4/5s and not one 5/5 while my friend gets 8 5/5s and is constantly goading me, and that is a weapon that you are guaranteed a 1/5 each time. Imo bring back weapon reforging from d1 make the gunsmith actually a gunsmith let us spend mats to reroll our weapons and even better yet let us spend even more mats like shards or prisms to reroll a specific collumn or collumns. idc if the cost is high. it at least gives me hope I will see my 5/5 someday. bonus points if you can do it with sunset weapons too. (totally not salty I never got a qd mindbenders when it only has 4 perks in the trait collumns)
Better chance getting conditional and running igneous, I understand wanting matador to pair with rose, but I’ve been mapping people with felwinters still..
I will always be team crafting. I like the grind and chase for Adept weapons and maybe some because it at least makes me feel better knowing I have something truly special. Its nonsense like farming for a Matador that makes me not want to chase at all. I'd rather wait to see if Prophet Of Doom will be craftable with PVP rolls than sit for solid 30 minutes not getting a Matador to drop yet. True story of me grinding for 30 mins straight without a drop btw...
EDIT: The support on this video has been incredible! More than 100 new subs in 3 days. Thank you ❤.
I imagine this video will get mixed responses but still, I call things how I see them.
Remember to check for my twitch in the description! I stream every couple of days or so.
This is why everyone praises Menagerie being the gold standard of weapon focusing and the cup being the fact u get to pick the master work and then u get two perks taken off from that weapon so u don't get that perk and instead more then likely a weapon roll of what u wanted
I always appreciate Cammy's quote a while back, "I hope all of you who hate crafted weapons never get your god roll so you can enjoy the chase forever :)"
That’s fantastic honestly. And tbh I feel the exact same way. The RNG in this game is not defensible by anyone with a brain operating above 0.06%.
A fellow snipe lion enjoyer
The only thing I don’t like about crafting is the enhanced perks as some aren’t just better they completely change what the perk is such as hip fire grip or incandescent
🤣🤣🤣
Back in Shadowkeep we had the hymn of desecration which guaranteed a weapon drop on your next encounter in Pit of Heresy, I don’t know why this doesn’t exist in every single dungeon.
Very good points here. I wish Bungie could come to the realization that players put this game down because they're completely burnt out on the endless, single-activity grinding necessary to get a weapon you want. Once you finally get it, you're just so sick of the game in general, you can't even enjoy the weapon once you've gotten it!
You hit the nail on the head
The reason I enjoy Destiny is because there are so many different weapons, with different perk combinations that I can put into builds and go play whatever I want, whether that's PvP or PvE and each time have a different experience. Chasing those guns is not the fun part to me, I know that it's different for everyone, I get that.
If I had the option to hand craft the 600 slots in my vault but in exchange I can't have any current gear drop for me anymore I would take that trade all day long. I have coming up on 200 ogre clears and I have yet to see even a 3/5 Matador with Opening Shot. I have over 100 VoG clears, with thousands of spoils spent at the chest and I still don't have a 5/5 Found Verdict. It's miserable. Thankfully Conditional exists now so I have that, but if I didn't, like before it was released, I am at a disadvantage every time I decide to use a shotgun.
I don't think they should completely scrap RNG chases, we saw how bland that was in D2Y1, but we do need there to be an option for each archetype that is craftable and can compete even if it can't quite match the perfect 5/5 RNG roll.
I think that while Bungie says the drops and rolls are completely "random," I 100% believe that the less desirable perks have a higher percentage to drop. So the rolls technically are random, but each perk has a percentage to drop tied to it. For example,say column 4 has 5 available perks, each perk does not have a 20% chance to drop. 1 perk may have a 20% chance, 2 may have 10% (most desirable), and 2 may have 30% (least desirable).
Same type of thing with bounties. I'll pick up my 8 vendor bounties and usually have to delete certain ones that won't work with whatever build I'm using. I swear if I delete one, it seems like there's a 50% chance you'll get the exact same bounty again instead of the many other ones available. So many times I've deleted and reacquired the same one 2-3 times in a row before a different one drops.
I wouldn't be shocked, with matador in particular I've farmed ~80 matadors and had 1 with threat + opening shot. I had every other combination multiple times
We should be able to re roll barrel perks and masterworks. You would still have to grind rolls without having your perfect perks ruined by steady rounds, reload masterwork, and chambered compensator. Either that or give us 2 perks per column.
2 perks per column would be way better, if all you had to do was just re roll the weapon barrel and mag it would basically remove the whole point of the game. D1 had something similar in its time and it basically removed the whole idea of farming. Destiny is a looter shooter, crafting is great but at the same time they could fix a lot of the rng issues with random roll weapons with just having less perks. There are a ton of perks that have either been power crept out of existence or are just the same as another perk but with a negative(ie slickdraw vs quickdraw).
A nice QoL feature would be a toggle somewhere in game to just turn off armor drops. After playing a season or two you really don't need any outside of maybe an Artifice class item. If I want armor, the seasonal focus is far and away the best or I would turn the toggle on for armor drops and do Pit boss. This would at least make it so guns I seek would have a better chance to drop and getting those random 52 stat legs or whatever would stop.
For me at least, the thing that defeats the "cRaFtInG iS rUiNiNg dEsTiNy" argument is simply that I still have to grind for red borders. Thats it. I still have to play the activities, slog through the bad/boring content as well as the fun stuff, and collect 5 red borders in order to be able to craft my thing. Which is in itself heavily RNG based, and only alleviated by the guaranteed focusing of the seasonal stuff. Otherwise, I still have to farm the raid, or the exotic missions for red borders from seasons I didnt get to play as much. _I still have to put in work._ It's not like i just log in and Bungie says "here you go, god roll craftable weapon pattern" (Ammit aside). And at least this way, for many weapons, I know that at the end of the grind I will have a weapon with rolls I actually want and will use, instead of a random Hothead with Field Prep/Lasting Impression becuase it was the best one I managed to get.
And thats not even touching the sentimental value. For me (and many others, from what I've seen) there is something special about being able to craft a weapon, make it yours, and grow with it. It feels like having your own iconic weapon, like how Last Word was for Shin Malphur. Something that identifies your Guardian as _you_ , because you made it and molded it and strengthened it.
Good Points in the video! Besides the RNG another important point for me is the investment of time. While an ogre-run takes about 2 minutes, a grandmaster nightfall can take up to 40 minutes to get one drop. For me it feels, as if i get tons of crucible engrams compared to vangard engrams, where I have to invest hours of time to get the 5 engrams, that I need, to buy a weapon from last season for example.
Time investment is a huge issue. GMs can take that long and a flawless in trials can potentially take hours depending on the map and team RNG.
If the way the rolls worked was changed Crafting would have never had been needed, they had a chance with Beyond Light and Sunsetting and fucked it up.
The best solution, imo, is having the mag, barrel, sights, grips, stocks, etc all be mod slots on your gun, and the perks and masterwork being the only RNG on the weapon.
You level up the gun the same way you always do, and different gun mods have different costs.
But to keep it simple, imagine how we mod our armor, well now you mod your gun the same way. Want steady or accurized? Throw it on. Want Arrowhead Brake? Throw it on there, go for it. Whatever combination you want to max the stats out how you like. The only catch is you need to get the perk synergy you want and the right masterwork.
Your odds of getting the gun you want go up significantly, then you only need to spend time using the gun to fine tune it.
You grossly over estimate the odds of getting even the two main perks you want on a weapon.
100% agree with the video, but my perception of Bungie is quite cynical. RNG seems designed to consume your time, ensuring you spend it in-game even if it means engaging in activities you dislike. They prioritize your time investment over the hope that obtaining your desired loot would motivate you to continue playing voluntarily.
Thank you. I appreciate your input on this topic. I have been so frustrated in so many activities,from competitive,Iron Banner, to dungeons, and Trials trying to just get a perk combination, let alone a god roll. I hope this video is acknowledged because it is extremely frustrating chasing rolls. Thank goodness for crafting.
I literally just spent last weekend farming the final encounter in grasp just to get an unrelenting/headstone eyasluna...90 attempts later and I STILL DONT HAVE IT!!! You are completely right
I completely agree with your points, I was farming the Grasp Ogre for about an hour and a half and only got 3 Matadors, all of which were trash rolls. It doesn't feel satisfying when I am forced to dismantle weapons I spent so much time trying to get only for it to not matter in the end.
And I bet you got at least 12 of each armor piece
The RNG is the problem. I farmed adept pali, I had 204 in my vault I never got outlaw / rampage. The only perk combo I wanted.
I only have problem with crafted because it has mementos and enhanced perks which you cannot apply to your normal Godtier weapons, which makes them worse even if it cost you your sanity to get.
One issue I’ve run into most is raid exotic drops. I’ve run every raid at least 5-10 times each but have not gotten any rng exotic myself. Though sometimes my friends get it first or second try.
It’s just disheartening to never get what I’m chasing when my friend who only ever plays when we raid gets the drop first try.
Like why is it such a low drop chance when raids are supposed to be a pinnacle activity. I did Vault 10+ times I should have Vex by virtue of time investment
Exotic weapons from raids do have an increase percentage chance per clear of the raid. It took me 7 runs for touch of malice, but then it also took me 60 to get eyes of tomorrow. Exotic raid weapons are honestly fine Imo, but that's just due to the pinnacle of the activity, and that these weapons are just a plus in terms of rng. You don't really do the raids for much else once you get crafted rolls, so the chase for them should still be equally meaningful.
@@TripleDipped2 it’s not very meaningful when someone people can get them all first try by virtue of luck and others never get a single one
@@luminaaemor1293 It's been like that ever since d1, these are things that have been ok forever. People just want handouts nowadays. If its that big of a problem farm the raid when its the specific farmable week. You can join up into an lfg, or take a group into final boss and farm it over and over again until you get it in one sitting. A primary part of the game is its loot.
@@TripleDipped2 it’s not fun to run 10+ times with no reward. It’s not a handout I did 10 raid runs.
Especially not a handout given there’s players that only ever do the final encounter and get it first try.
@luminaaemor1293 That's why you wait until the raid is the farmable raid of the week. Then, the farm final boss. You'll see the exotic within an hour or 2 of it while also getting loot every clear. The raid exptic from each raid is random chace, but increases per clear. Idk what's hard to grasp about that.
i wouldn't say that the rng is the problem, i would just say that bungie clearly doesn't think about what random perks are going to be on a gun. matador is the perfect example on a gun that is only meant for pvp, but can come with perks such as full auto still even when that's an option in settings, lead from gold, one two punch, swashbuckler. bungie just doesn't put the right perks on the right weapons, wasting players time.
Over 50 clears in vog... NO. F***ING. VEX!
Meanwhile my friend is getting his 4th vex, the **** bungo?!
I think crafting has helped the game be more consistent for players to get loot. Even when it’s not the right role a drop can help players get decent weapons. All crafted weapons arent meta breaking or defining in pvp or pve. Their are some great weapons. Weapon crafting makes the baseline to do well in destiny a linear path versus just RMG.
Only thing I like for grinding for rolls is getting me more practice in hard activities such as master raids and dungeons. Also helps practice encounters. Crafting is cool for those who are not good at mastering content or not stepping through raids or not having enough time. But all my god roll non crafted weapons mean something to me and not my crafted (insert weapon) that I probably won’t actually craft or is sitting in my vault collecting dust. I fortunately get blessed with RNG but even for those chasing god rolls the average player wouldn’t know the difference between 5/5 and just having the last two columns making it a 2/5.
Felt so good when I got my 5/5 matador, but I will never do that ogre encounter again lol. Also we need a dares of eternity rework so we can actually have a shot at farming weapons like fractythest and ignition code.
I love crafting. As someone who doesn't have a lot of time, the fact that you eventually can get the god roll is very nice. That being said I still use my trusty crafted bxr. I also crafted all the Halo weapons just for pvp. It's not the best but still fun.
Refreshing video. Heard too many people defending this game's RNG saying crafting is a "problem". I'm genuinely speechless that we're defending fighting against a mathematical equation of improbability, and we pay for it with our time and nerves.
The biggest problem is that this is a Buildcrafting game and in order to minmax some of my builds and get things just right, sometimes I need a hyper specific random drop weapon roll and if I dont have said weapon roll, the build isnt happening.
Bungie should at least let us change weapon masterworks for our random roll drops through some sort of system to curb the frustration casued by rng somewhat.
i've like 7k hours and i still have nearly no random drop weapon rolls that i've wanted so far. I've a Mid matador, not a single pve sourced Bow be it Biting winds, and either of the vanguard bows, and Iron banner weapons are also a pain in the ass to focus for. it's getting ridiculous.
I support your view on this so youve earned a sub. good video
Great video! One day I was farming Ogre on master with a couple of LFG folks and we must've of cleared it about 30 times.... The only thing I ever received was the titan mark or upgrade materials. Not a single matador. I eventually got a couple, but far from great rolls lol. I dismantled them except the one with threat detector and 1-2 punch because it had the best stats.
Retold tale was another one. I farmed the blind well last season and only got a few of them. This season I farmed coil (doing the 1st encounter on repeat) many many times. I tallied it out and I only got 5 retold tales, mostly with horrible perks haha. When I finally did get a couple of QD/SS RT, the rest of the perks and stats were pretty bad, but I had given up at that point.
My most recent woe is trying to get an OS/SS Occluded finality, but I settled with SS/Elemental capacitor since I could never get that roll. On the flip side, my LFG buddy got a SS/OS bite of the fox on his very first focus, got the god roll retold tale after 3 farms, and got a god roll riiswalker (I gave up on that one and settled for a slick draw iron reach lol) after 4 matches. He rubs it in my face lol
I've always assumed that even if crafting takes away from the "grind and fun of random luck", you'd still have to get fortunate with the pattern drops.
Even if you got the patterns, you have to either dedicate time to leveling the weapon or use resources to jump into the deep end.
And before you level the weapon to max and use resources to "perfect the weapon", you still will have to decide whether this weapon or another one would fit your playstyle and build(s).
While patterns seem to take away the original core aspect of "loot-shoot-grind" that Destiny has used for years, the craftable system is better because it not only helps you to find that one weapon you would love to use anytime, but also incentivizes players to experiment with different weapons no matter what the meta says. You think you'll have more fun with a Prosperity hand cannon instead of Ignious? Go right ahead! Maybe you want to try that old Stochastic Variable smg without relying on Ikelos Sg v1.0.3? That's great.
I think Bungie's biggest fear (and some players might think the same way for this) is that once people have the weapon patterns, they will not play the content anymore, or that there's no incentive to play again. While that is true in some cases (I can verify this with season 20 and 22 content on a personal level), there's always another part of the game that keep the players coming back. At least with the weapons collected from the patterns and crafted, you can experiment on a fun level anytime you'd like.
Good luck with getting that non-existent 5/5 "godroll" when any weapon could potentially be good.
Plus, patterns help free up vault space. Imagine how many players would be able to use their vaults correctly and freely if they got to choose which weapons from the pattern collection to create/level/perfect. Unlike random rolls where we hoard them and think "Uh, this might be useful later??", we just know that we can get it back later.
Apologies to anyone who spent their time reading all of this, but hopefully it made sense.
Cheers to you if you legit took the time or agreed. 😅
i guess the stark contrast between 0,06% dropchance and "just get 5 redborders, and you even get improved perks on top" makes it even worse to chase RNG weapons.
I have to say I would rather spend a known 8 hours than 1-100 hours for a role. I honestly like the crafting chase. My least liked grind is for dungeon loot even though I like those activities best.
I farmed for matador dozens of hours last week. I killed the ogre probably 300+ times, never saw TD/OS once.
I love crafting. Last week i farmed grasp of avarice again for daysss and have yet to get a decent 3/5 eyasluna 😭😭
I never minded the RNG back when raid and trials weapons used to drop with static rolls, like in D1 and early D2
Nor did I when they started being random after Forsaken, because then we had the curated rolls that dropped fully masterworked which helped alleviate some frustration
My problem lies with the enhanced perks of Crafted weapons, the power creep is just insane, and whenever I get a weapon to drop that can be crafted, I don't even check at the rolls I just check if it's a red border or not; and after I craft the weapon, I don't even look at the drops anymore
I wouldn't mind crafted weapons if they didn't have enhanced perks, or if they were way more expensive to craft and modify
I do miss the simple times of pure rng
Lol i wouldn't ever played destiny if it wasn't for crafting...i dont have time to sit around all day no life farming
Another part of horrible rng is getting the same terrible roll multiple times, this happens to me very time I focus IB weapons.
Exactly this!
And many big name content creators are basically begging for “sunsetting” to be brought back.
Imagine being blessed with a one in a million drop, only to have its usability literally taken away from you in a matter of months, weeks, or even days.
The only reason people advocate for sunsetting to force everyone to bin all their gear, that helps give a closer to fair playing field, is fragile ego superiority complexes of try hards who want to look more “skilled” by shxting on “normies” not lucky enough to have the top rolls, so that they can abuse their pre-given game changing (or breaking) advantage, just because they no-life’s the first few weeks of the season and got lucky.
There’s a reason every time Bungie has tried to implement sunsetting the player numbers drive off a cliff, only to walk back and reverse decisions to desperately attempt to claw back player engagement.
Sunsetting literally incentivises not actually playing the game, and only hop on for the drip fed story, log off and come back for next story step.
Why spend hours, days, weeks, months, even years to have but a chance of the perfect drop, only to have it taken away?
The day they announce sunsetting coming back is the day I quit
@@julius7539 That’s exactly what I did first in Taken King (Gave it a chance but the pure cop-out was plain as day), then again at Destiny 2 launch until Forsaken, and most recently from when it was announced in Shadowkeep to be coming back, I literally didn’t touch the game for over 3 entire years until season of the Witch, when I was told Bungie finally came to their senses and allowed player FREEDOM back.
It’s no coincidence literally every time Bungie try to cater to the elitist ego lords and introduce sunsetting, player numbers basically die, and they have to desperately try and reverse the damage by providing free updates (April Update in Taken King) or best expansions (Forsaken) compared to the norm, in order to try convince people to come back.
If you could focus every weapon in the game like the playlist guns, it would be fine. Even with three perks in each column it still takes a while to get your god roll, but it’s a lot more manageable
On record: It's funny you specify that because at least with Banshee, Seasonal, Playlist and Raid weapons, you have the option to focus those. Dungeons still don't allow the same options that Raids have, and are not craftable at all, making the grind worse.
And like you said, if it was possible to get multiple perks off of any weapon, some content would be worth the grind knowing you don't have to wait for so long.
Off record: I like your YT icon. It's actually cool. :D
Bungie knows how punishing the rng is in this game. They also know it increases play time. They also know what rolls we want on guns. I’ve been farming that ogre for about a year now for the OS/TD Matador and have gotten every perk combo except that one🤔
Your first two sentences explain why they won’t change it either. But what they would love to do, is charge money for god-roll, but they can’t do that. So it must be hard to be this dishonest a company when it comes to a “looter/shooter” game developer. 🤔
I absolutely agree, it always frustrates me when I see people calling for the removal of crafting, because I hate grinding for God-Rolls, but I do like completing crafting patterns. Per your idea of targeting drops in dungeons and stuff, I would say that instead of making it a menu at launch, you could make it a series of Ghost mods for armor pieces, or like "Scout rifles" "hand cannons" etc, which could apply anywhere in the game.
This is a good idea if it gets fleshed out a little bit more, since they did just remove and optmise a lot of the ghost mods, and now you want to add more??
Maybe instead, in the activity collection tabs you can mark a weapon you want to drop more often and the drop table will just be more weighed in it's favor. Not a guarantee sure but if it was, we'd basically be back to Leviathan days just without the Static rolls.
You hate grinding for god rolls? Why the hell are you playing destiny then? That’s always been the main thing in destiny. The grind for the perfect roll
@@BeeyothGaming I fundamentally disagree. For me, Destiny has been about engaging with novel content, lore, and buildcraft. I am not opposed to putting in work to acquire a piece for the latter part, but I don't view spending hundreds of hours doing the same content (especially if it's something I hate, like Trials) to be the "main" thing in Destiny.
@@tyinyk For you maybe, but for the franchise as a whole its been about grinding god rolls. The game is quite literally about doing the same content over and over again. Which basically every other game like it is like too. It's been like this since 2014, straying away from rng loot being the primary focus is straying away from the core progression that destinys is known for. Which they did in d2 year 1, and that didnt work out so well
To add to the absolutely insane RNG the game has here's my experience with it:
1) It took me 1 year (68 weekly clears) for vex mythoclast to drop, It took me so long cause I got tired half way and gave up.
2) I have been grinding every Iron Banner week every day to get the god roll Riiswalker (Full choke / Accurized / Quickdraw / Iron Reach / Range MW) since *Season of the Splicer* , which is close to *3 years* and I *NEVER* got it.
I think crafting destroyed the player returning rate. On the other hand frustrating RNG is not the answer either. We need RNG bad luck protection and remove crafting
Crafting was a bad idea from jump . But Bungie only listens to the streamers and you tubers . They could care less about the majority of us so called random players. Even though their is way more of us . The devs ruined a game that I loved with their goofy changes .
1:31 timelost found verdict is
Put it this way if Crafting WASN'T a thing I would have dropped Destiny 2 because i absolutely hate relying on RNG.
Like the new Strand Bow and Pistol in Warlords ruin. I managed a 5/5 Bow on my first run but for the Rocket Sidearm I have a 3/5 and simply cba with it
would be cool if they added chalice of opulence to dares since that loot pool is massive
Fr
I'm trying to get a very specific roll of Heliocentric QSC. I'm using the Master Lost Sectors with the sidearm rotating into the loot pool every four days, alongside three other weapons. So 25% chance to get a sidearm, and then the roll is 0.17% chance of dropping. Gross...
Ive gotten NOX PERENNIAL V to drop a ton of times not once have I seen controlled burst, not.. one roll. Meanwhile, Elemental capacitor and Wellspring show up every other Tuesday
Same here. Those two perks are weighted insanely heavily, given that those perks aren’t particularly relevant on fusions.
@@northern_ranger7008perks are weighted? Really?
@@thecanadiankiwibirb4512 That’s what I theorize. Given how frequently I see myself and others getting the same roll over and over again (I.e. ele cap on Nox). But I don’t have a way of confirming it unfortunately.
The worst part is that Bungie actually gave us focusing options that removed certain perks from weapon drops during Season of the Hunt. Bungie could totally do it again if they actually wanted.
Also part of your calculation is resting on the fact that the actual chances between perks are equal. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to find out that is not the case at all. After farming the Ogre in grasp for 12 hours, I had one single drop that had opening shot. There was a point I had 4 matadors dropping back to back, all four had full auto trigger and swashbuckler.
The game just looooves giving you back to back duplicate rolls.
I think Bungie has said before that theres no internal perk bias but after getting the exact same roll on horrors least multiple times (exact same barrels, mag, mw, and major perks), I am skeptical to say the least
@@gothiclb I'm inclined to believe them.
I am however, convinced their random number generator is garbage and spits out the same numbers consistently, which is why we get the same rolls constantly.
To be the RNG factor - as punishing as it is in D2 - would have still been bearable if the activities would be fun but the majority of them are too boring and repetitive.
Amen. Been trying to get a Showrunner godroll for 5 months now.
I wonder if Bungie uses the same algorithm for weapons drops that they use for Strike rotation. I legitimately can't remember the last time I saw Exodus Crash or Inverted Spire, I don't even know if they're still in the game. The playlist seems HEAVILY weighted toward giving you those godawful PsiOps Battlegrounds over and over.
I loved crafted weapons because my luck with RNG is just terrible. The best drop I had ever gotten was a Fatebringer that had 4/5 of the perks I wanted on it. I said it was good enough for me. The reason I loved activities like Menagerie was because you had the chalice which allowed you to narrow it down to give you the masterwork that you wanted on the specific weapon and it reduced the RNG. We haven't gotten something like that in a very, very long time. There needs to be a better way to target loot farm what we want, whether it is some sort of lock in "give me only this drop instead of the rest of the loot pool" item. Pretty ridiculous that I'm still trying to get a Strident Whistle with Archer's Tempo + Incandescent multiple seasons later when I can craft Tyranny of Heaven now with enhanced perks, a better perk pool, and with the exact perks that I wanted.
Armor from activities is almost completely worthless to me because I have the armor rolls that I need from seasonal focusing, which is a whole other kettle of fish. Over 50% of the loot I get is instantly sharded. That's ridiculous.
The worst thing was igneous was on Christmas weekend, not only did I miss time spending with family cause I knew if I didn’t farm I’d have to wait like another month for it to come back, I didn’t even get a SINGLE roll with keep away and EOTS…. I hate rng
Everyone just forgets why you play a videogame tho. Getting a good roll of a gun feels so much better and so much more rewarding than just crafting one and seeing oh yeah a billion other ppl also have this gun. Thats just soo boring to me. Compare it to emblems. People literally spend real life money to get an emblem JUST BECAUSE ITS RARE. A gun doesnt bring me any joy whatsoever when i dont feel like i earned it and i see others just have the same roll without putting up any effort. This game is still a LOOT SHOOTER. For the most part the more time you invest into farming a gun the more likely it prob is you already got a good roll.
That’s not how RNG works lol you have that 0.06% every time it drips, regardless of how much time you spent trying to get it.
@@northern_ranger7008 yeah but most guns arent essential. If you still dont have a 5/5 yet, just use a similar gun with virtually the same roll and stop crying about it. Not everyone in this game is supposed to have only the best loot, othwise just get rid of random rolls again so everyone has the same roll of the same gun again like in 2017 lmao.
@@eliasgrunewald2066 ‘just use a similar gun’ please point to another 120 as good as Igneous lmao
@@northern_ranger7008 steady hand from ib if you still have one for example. But you can literally focus igneous lol you pretend like you focused a 1000 igneous hammers and didnt get a single usable roll and thats just cap at this point. An adept roll is not at all necessary since this gun has great base stats. You also get 2 perks in 4th column on the adept ones so ig people are out here complaining just for the sake of being angry idk man. I get that people complain about raid exotic drop chances, i agree you cant really substitute conditional in trials. But complaining about rng on legendaries is wild. There are soo few unique legendaries with rare perks in this game most guns can just be switched out for others that are gonna have a similar roll.
How it was implemented was the mistake for me. I would have preferred if Crafted Weapons were unique weapons you couldn't get anywhere in any of the pools in the sandbox. Something you actually had to craft like you did with Rose > Lumina. Or with the glaives. I thought that was the only way we'd get new glaives. With Khovostov (possibly) and Revision Zero being an example of a weapon that you craft that is customizable.
FFXIV Does something like this where at the end of every expansion, there's always a unique weapon (per job/class) that you craft and upgrade for months that increasingly gets better and more elaborate. They did that with Revision Zero in D2 already. We could have had a Crafted pool of weapons alongside the World, Ritual, Nightfall, Raid, Dungeon, Crucible, Iron Banner, Trials weapons we already have. Rather than crafting stuff we either can get elsewhere but choose to craft a specific roll, something that was sunset or something that was moved out of one pool and into crafting.
The only people i see complain about crafting are influencers and people who play the game 24/7 most people dont spend enough time on the game to get god rolls on weapon drops. I was grinding for a god roll of the dawning fusion rifle every day of the event and didn't get one until my last engram of the last day the event before i logged off. Some people have lives and dont want to grind 2000 plus drops for a single weapon
I do agree that the biggest issue with the game's RNG is the inconsistency for its solutions. I've nearly ran two resets' worth of Trial ranks JUST to get an non-adept Incisor roll with both Sever and Hatchling, and I've yet to obtain it with a 1/49 chance to get those two perks together from one drop. If Trials weapons (even if it's only for adept weapons) offered two column perks, this grind would be far more forgiving to give me what I want rather than relying on pure luck.
This is so true I’ve farmed at least 50 adept igneous hammers every time it’s appeared in trials since its return and haven’t gotten the keep away precision instrument roll with good stats
I think the problem with crafting is the enhanced perks. They should have made everything below adept level weapons craftable and then put the enhanced perks on the adept level weapons and still had them RnG. That way people could feel rewarded and have their non adept god roll and still leave something to chase for the higher tier players.
I remember a Reddit comment on a post featuring this same discussion, which brought up how now, RNG weapons are basically now reliant on focusing, essentially resulting in this game turning back into Destiny 1 all over again where you're standing in front of Vendors for 2 hours.
Or you could be like me and not give a **** about rolls. Every Matador will one shot, so any roll will do me. You're complaining that you 'have' to farm for things when the reality is, you don't, you really don't.
exactly he cries about having to put days into a game for one roll when he wouldnt notice the difference between is 5/5 and someones 2/5 ingame
Couldn't agree more. The Matador is a great example for me personally. I've spent so many countless hours trying to get the god roll - if I ever get it, I'm never going to play that dungeon ever again, because I'm so sick of it. Bungie's RNG literally ruined the experience for me. Forever.
my biggest problem with crafting raid weapons is that is makes adept raid weapons useless
I appreciate your perspective on here. I think there is no question that crafting has improved QoL for the majority of players in the game as it does respect our time. I do think we should also ask ourselves whether there are, or more appropriately *were* at the time they were dreaming up crafted weapons, other alternatives that would have solved the same thing. I think it would have been totally fine to simply increase drop rates, increase drop chances (e.g. you get 3 chances at 30% per activity completion), and increase multiple perks per column (without having to grind resets.) They went through all of this trouble to invent a new system (and then guaranteed it was superior by adding Enhanced Perks which IMO was a huge mistake) when they could have used a KISS principle.
Think about this, who doesn't LOVE being showered in loot? End of a Platinum Coil is like a kid in a candy store. Sure most will be an insta-dismantle, but it ups the chances of something good.
Friends say I have a talent for turning my brain off and droning on for craftables, didn't believe them until I realized every season I have every seasonal craftable within the first 3 weeks...
Sometimes even if I don't get a god roll, if it feels good enough with the perks it has, I don't even bother grinding for that weapon anymore even if it's craftable. I have the time, I just don't have the patience.
Lost sectors should be a role model. The weapon loot pools are small and drops are guaranteed.
But the pinnacle of focusing is definetly Menagerie. The runes system was excellent, although if we were to apply this system to more activities, it would get messy.
Runes used to drop from activity completions, which cluttered the drops columns quite a lot. My idea would be to add this system to all activities, but the activities would drop tokens or runes that could be used for that specific activity and it's loot pool. Also maybe display their drops as glimmer instead of gear.
This is a rough topic to discuss. I know a lot of hardcore players who spend 8h+ a day playing the game, and they hate crafting because everyone can have the best stuff. But on the other hand, I also know a lot of casuals, including myself nowadays, who love crafting because we don't have the time or willpower to farm for 8h a day.
I like the chase tbh… I prefer RNG believe it or not lol you can flex in front of the ones who don’t have it 😂
Weapon crafting has ruined my hunt for the god roll. But farming ruined my enjoyment pf.tje game as a whole. Although rng is good to an extent, it ruins the flow of the fantasy like experience. Crafting has made me delete any weapon i get that is craftable. I found more enjoyment getting a weapon wuth a random roll, but at the same time, when the weapon's best roll is less than that of a craftable with the dame weapon frame, i just delete it too. I want crafting to be available for every weapon, but i want it to be managed better. Reward the grind after a while.
Anyone whos ever tried to get a god roll cataphract knows that random rolls as they exist in the game today is not better than crafting
If you want to see the perfect random drop system - check out Division 2. It basically has a rotating pool of weapon types tied to activities. Like, “this mission has increased shotgun drops” or “Now this mission has increased helmet drops”. And there is “Summit”, where you can basically SET and choose what are you farming. Loot wise that game is done PERFECTLY. And oh hey, if you are playing in squad and a buddy of yours got what you need? HE CAN F-ING GIVE IT TO YOU.
when the garden loot gets reprized a crafted prophet of doom will 100% replace matador
Another thing like why can’t we just farm any dungeon we want. You have to wait for the dungeon to be farmable for matador or whatever gun you’re chasing but it’s only out like once every couple months lol.
Since forsaken has been out I’ve been on and off hunting for a 5/5 retold tale and I’ve just got one yesterday… it’s been 5 years since it was introduced into the game… I like weapon crafting a lot more than rng drops
100% they should bring back the 3 of swords concept from Xur in Destiny 1 but have it work on weekly rotator dungeons instead of night falls, that way people can target farm weapon drops and artificer armor pieces
This video brings up so many good points that I try and tell my friends as well. People will whine and complain abput how much they hate crafting since it ruins the grind then you'll lok at their loadout and it's level 100+ crafted weapons.
there were quite a few weapons that got sunset before I ever landed the rolls I was looking for. Not even like a 5/5, just the 2 main perks and still never got them. Hundreds of hours wasted with nothing to show for.
We need some kind of weapon rng protection in the game. Or at least a way to focus farm any weapon in the game from any activity. Like if you could use strange coins to focus farm weapons in the current dares rotation it would make getting the rolls you want like 100x easier
The joys of playing farm simulators. I remember to this day I never got in Diablo One a King's Sword of Haste bastard sword. The best I got was a damn broad sword after countless hours of playing.
Been saying for years how bad the RNG is in this game. We wouldn’t need crafting if they eased up on the RNG. We don’t need a million perks in each column
As a guy that does PvP alot and around times like this. They need to do something about Trials, and Iron Banner. Especially the drop rates. I don't know if it's me, but the drop rates during these aren't exactly good. Vanguard they give me my engrams after one strike, cool I'm good I can focus that. Trials and Iron Banner though I feel like they should increase the drop rate. I remember when IB weapons used to drop from Iron Banner after one match. And now I don't see that too often. Mostly because of the rank system and focusing. Focusing is good for the game, but sometimes painful PvP modes like IB and Trials don't necessarily drop weapons nowadays. Trials...I stayed away from Trials. Mostly because I do not want to deal with the worse things I come across in Destiny. But when I do, they don't really reward me for at least losing (at least that is how I see it). The only time I do get drops when I finish the pinnacle, and that's not good. Sure I mean it works, but I don't wanna do 20 rounds and be on a losing streak because of it. Something has gotta change, but I doubt Bungie will see it until we get a big content creator to talk about it.
Thats why destiny will never be competitive. Too many handicaps like this one.
Not just RNG.
One more thing i dont see many people talk about is how crafting helped the vault space situation. I have said this to someone who advocates the removal of crafting, I would be fine with removing crafting, but not until you give me triple the vault space, 1800 instead of 600.
1 crafted weapon = all combination of said weapon. I can change my roll according to constantly shifting meta, and that is very valuable. Crafted weapons are also future proof, because any trash perk has the potential to be buffed to OP tier and for non-crafted weapons I would have to save up a lot of copies or worse, I did not save any copy of the buffed version.
Crafting is a band aid fix to the rng in the game but crafting also has its own major flaws and I think having a set of ghost mods that increase the drop rates of certain weapons e.g. smg focusing or maybe just primary, special or heavy weapons drop rate boost mods
The DAYS ive spent trying to get a good frat. From dares.. gave up months ago after my 5th or 6th reset.... yeah rng in this game is ridiculous. Great video though!
In D1 I farmed over 1500 Omnigaul kills for a god roll grasp. Never got the god roll. I'm currently farming 2 guns... I've gotten 5000 shards worth of drops, no god rolls. Bungie wants it like this. It's still >1:1000 odds to get certain specific rolls IF the gun drops.
Fractethyst is lit and i have clutched my baby felwinter near and dear ever since it dropped for me. Cleans up even better than a lightweight
i just wish enhanced perks either weren't a thing or you could get them on all weapons
The RNG in this game is why I basically only play PvP these days. Many seasons ago when you could target farm Menagerie or Sundial, you felt somewhat rewarded for your time. Now it seems like Bungie feels that quantity of loot drop is what matters, when its all garbage that drops, and less than .1% of that loot is kept. I dont buy the seasons or expansions anymore, and I dont even want to play other activities other than what I enjoy now. Too many seasons of grinding really bad content, with really bad RNG.
We need more focusing options, and more ways to curb RNG. Crafting has its own issues, but its far more rewarding for your time than RNG farming anything. I target farm my crucible engrams on 2 weapons, for 2+ seasons and 40+ resets, and still dont have the roll that I want.
Random roll weapons have increased in rarity and decreased in good rolls. Crafted usually either has good options or are unused, and are much easier to get. I'm not saying crafting is better, theres just less good new uncraftable weapons right now.
I have been aiming for a solar gun with Incandescent and Pugilist. Do you know how many weapons uncraftable that has that roll? Not many, but the BXR and every solar raid crafted weapons have it. That's my problem with crafting
Another point: farming is incredibly tedious to do and requires a group since you need to checkpoint swap (except for encounters like 1st ghosts of deep or 1st warlords ruin). For an encounter like grasp ogre, you literally spend more time swapping the cp than you do playing the game. That is moronic.
Honestly, retold tale is a tragic shotgun. It's S tier on paper but then it feels like wet paper gun
The insane amount grinding has made me quit this game. I barely play each week...sometimes not at all due to the terrible RNG.
Don't even get me started about weapons limited to world drops, like Crux Termination and Ros Arago.
First time I have ever seen a video of yours and I have to say this is one of the best opinions I have ever seen on this topic, and it has how I have felt for a very long time. I hate most of the opinions on the crafting system because it always forgets just how god awful the RNG slot machine is in this game. I have grinded the ogre for GOA over 1000 times (likely will never go back in because it has burnt me out completely from every wanting to see that ogre ever again) and still only have a 3/5 matador at best. barrel shroud/extended mag/threat/opening/range mw is the best I could do. And it was only the third threat/opening roll in over 1000 runs I ever got (the other two were even worse than this by a mile). I won't argue that the crafting system is not perfect, but to say RNG was better and the game is "missing the high you get from finally getting a god roll" is so close-minded, ESP when you realize most times the best god roll you got was still overall not really a 5/5, but just so close you were willing to call it quits and accept what you got. Yeah I spend "less time in activities like raids, etc." with crafting, but I also finally have my time respected and get what I want quicker and get to spend more time in PVP which is where I wanna use the god-roll guns I get anyway. Thanks for the video and I hope it gets all the views it deserves!
Bungie should just let us focus the weapons and armor from the collections page. Its just a wasted page to look at the weapons and armor you have collected, it should have a way more functional use in the game.
hard agree, will never forget and will always be bitter about running master templar over 200 times in two days getting 40 4/5s and not one 5/5 while my friend gets 8 5/5s and is constantly goading me, and that is a weapon that you are guaranteed a 1/5 each time. Imo bring back weapon reforging from d1 make the gunsmith actually a gunsmith let us spend mats to reroll our weapons and even better yet let us spend even more mats like shards or prisms to reroll a specific collumn or collumns. idc if the cost is high. it at least gives me hope I will see my 5/5 someday. bonus points if you can do it with sunset weapons too. (totally not salty I never got a qd mindbenders when it only has 4 perks in the trait collumns)
If weapon pools can be weighed, who's to say perk pools aren't weighed either.
Better chance getting conditional and running igneous, I understand wanting matador to pair with rose, but I’ve been mapping people with felwinters still..
I will always be team crafting. I like the grind and chase for Adept weapons and maybe some because it at least makes me feel better knowing I have something truly special.
Its nonsense like farming for a Matador that makes me not want to chase at all. I'd rather wait to see if Prophet Of Doom will be craftable with PVP rolls than sit for solid 30 minutes not getting a Matador to drop yet. True story of me grinding for 30 mins straight without a drop btw...