Curt Schilling was a better pitcher than Buerhle, Pettite, Roy Halladay, Mussina, Glavine, and John Smoltz. Plus, Schilling's heroics in the playoffs with Boston and Arizona should get him into the HOF. He was by far one of the greatest big-game pitchers of his era. I am a Yankee fan so I know this. Shame that he is still not elected yet.
He wasn’t better than glavine or smoltz. And if Halliday played longer it wouldn’t be close. Him and mussina are close. I’d give it to schilling slightly.
Pettite was well liked by everyone across the board. He also admitted to taking HGH for recovery. The fact that he was humble enough to admit to it says everything I need to know about him. He is not a HOFer but I respect him more than those that deny. Being friendly to the voters and the media goes a long way ... see Curt Schilling and Barry Bonds.
Jon Lester is never getting into the Hall of Fame - nobody ever considered him to be a top tier pitcher at any point during his career. Of the pitchers they mentioned, I think that only CC Sabathia will get in.
Jake Arrieta? Are you kidding me? Guy was good for a year and a half and that's it. HoF is for ELITE players. As much as I love CC, being a Cleveland fan, he's not a Hall of Famer. He won 1 Cy Young and was above average the rest of his career. That's awesome, but not elite.
From 14-17 Arrieta was elite. But I agree, not a hoffer CC is also an easy Hoffer. 60+ War, 3000 k's and his career ERA+ was 116, thats 16% better then average over the course of 19 seasons. Longevity maters
@@mikeimpressionsreviews9831 I think he does get in it's just that I think the ballot is saturated so I don't think it's first year (I believe he is a first year HOFer) he's two years away from the ballot and in that ballot and next year you have Ichiro Suzuki Adrian Beltre Joe Mauer David Wright Chase Utley Jose Bautista Felix Hernandez Brian McCann Dustin Pedroia Hanley Ramirez Troy Tulowitzki Those are just some. I don't think they ALL make it but it's gonna be a struggle to get 75% with all those guys there as well. And past ballot players there too. He should get in though I believe that fully
that's why it's called the hall of FAME, not the hall of very good. i hate how reporters around baseball want to bring in these very good players into the hall of fame
Injuries fam; but at the same time when he’s on the mound, there’s no one better and let’s not forget the insane 8+ years of absolutely no run support whatsoever for this man. They don’t factor in shit like that and it’s stupid. Also, if the media doesn’t like him, he definitely won’t get in. They literally factor in how you treated the media even if the media treated you a certain way; shit that has nothing do with what was done on the field.
Hamels have a better era + than cc, burhrle, and others. He have I believe 160 wins. But in this era why not. Dude was a stud and he had terrible run support. Just like Felix. I believe Felix, hamels, and other pitchers who don’t have the traditional hall of fame numbers, will get in.
All of these guys were good but i think its gonna saturate the Hall a little. I do think Cabathia gets in or gets to 10th year i feel bad for Mark and Petitte but i dont think their there yet.
I don't think you can mention Pettite without mentioning PED's. I think it might take enough of the edge off his case for him not to make it in the end.
Double standards. You can’t even whisper Bonds and Clemens’ names without bringing up PEDs but with significantly inferior players like Ortiz and Pettite, it’s just glossed over.
@@spencerwilliams8443 yeah but he wasn't outed in the mitchell report, and he wasn't barry bonds, and it was a voluntary test, and it was supposed to be anonymous, and ortiz is really beloved.
I think the assumption (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Bonds and Clemens really used them to boost performance and get to that next level, whereas I've always associated Pettite as having used them to heal after injury.
@@wendeborn8 dude they were good before the peds. Peds doesn’t help you hit spots or hit the ball. Only reason Andy gets looked at is cause he testified
We cannot start adding people with innings and wins and starts per year just because people aren't doing it anymore. It's the Hall of Fame. Best of the best. Buerhle and Pettitte aren't CY Young winners, they weren't even the best players on their teams some years. They were both very good, but not the best. Verlander, Scherzer, and Kershaw are the next 3 starting pitchers going in, or should be going in. I am on the fence with Greinke, I'd be fine if he went in though. He was better than Buerhle and Pettite watching him pitch. I'd also be fine if Lester get in too. I don't think King Felix has the overall numbers to get in. CC and Arrieta are a no. They both had 2 great years and above average to below average other years. Verlander, Scherzer, and Kershaw are the only HoFer locks that I could say. Go through every year in baseball, rank the top 5 starting pitchers in that year. If a guy is not on that list consistently for years, he does not belong in the HoF.
The baseball HOF is a joke. It isn't the Hall of Fame anymore. It's the... Hall of Pretty good for the era. The HOF holds literally ZERO VALUE anymore. They've ruined it.
@@brandenp1187 the quality has also drastically decreased. Less players are deserving of the honor. So the numbers should decline. The quality shouldn't though. It's like the writers pick someone just to have the ceremony because... it's big money 🤑
Until they expanded to 26-man rosters, there were 750 active players in the league at one time with another 450 on the 40-man. One percent of 750 is seven-and-a-half players. We never have 7 players inducted in one year. Currently, only 1.49% of all players (using the numbers on Baseball Reference's front page) are in the Hall of Fame. Allowing a few more guys in does not dilute the HoF. The best players of their eras should be in. The writers have elected only nine players in the last six years. If you want to talk jokes, then talk about the All-Star teams.
Only 7 Starting pitchers as of now deserve to make the hall of fame. The average career WAR for starting pitchers in the hall of fame is 73. The 7 players with a higher career WAR than the average are Clemens, Verlander, Kershaw, Schilling, Greinke, McCormick, and Scherzer. And yes Sabathia is not on that list, his career WAR is 62, well below the starting pitcher average. It's the hall of fame, not hall of good. If they keep putting in players with below average hall of fame WAR for that position it will start diluting the hall of fame. Someone should build a baseball museum and call it the hall of good, and induct these good players for enshrinement there.
None of them ate HOF worthy they was really good but not great in my opinion, Pettite might be the only one I might let’s slide because of post season but he wasn’t great in the reg season
I'm so glad you're a BBWA voter. Thank you for letting Pettitte 'slide'. I mean, without you, he probably wouldn't make it. Goodbye Sabathia. So long anyone who can't cut it. Andy Pettitte should really engrave your name on his plaque. He owes it to you. Thank you for letting him slide by.
Wow, really? I'm happy you were here to explain it to us. I don't think we woulda known. I mean, I was trying to form a petition to get my sister elected, but you're right: only the elite. Thank you for that.
The baseball writers are penalized all these different players in the last 20 years that some players should be in already. Mcgriff should have made it in when he was on the ballot. These guys need to vote what us fans Truly believe are hall of farmer's
This talk is lacking common sense,how good were these pitchers when they pitched,Frank Tanana,Jerry Reuss are Hall of Famers based on this conversation despite well over 200 losses!! Pettiness is alot closer than Buerhle!
Mark Burehrle and Andy Pettitte were decent pitchers. Utterly laughable to even discuss the Hall of Fame for them. Sabathia and Lester were good Pitchers, not Hall of Famers.
I am a lifelong Yankees fan and don't believe Pettitte should be in. His post-season stats (and he had some clunkers) give him the edge over Buerhle, but Pettitte was not a regular season ace. Mussina, who pitched at roughly the same time and in the same division, put up better numbers. Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Johnson, Mussina, and Martinez all jump to my mind as the best pitchers of the era before I think of Pettitte or Buehrle. And there are probably more that I am forgetting who just didn't have the longevity.
You guys are trying to distort baseball history by lowering the standard by which you can get in the Hall of Fame. All you need to do is compare him, in his playing days to top notch pitchers of his time and you will find he just does not measure up. By your standards, additional thousands of players would be in the hall! Were those players at the top of their profession in their playing days? Absolutely not! You should not advocate for average or below average players being n the hall. Brian I understand as he does not know true baseball, but past players should know the difference!
Oh yeah it’s well known that Brian Kenny advocates for all of these guys so that he gets in the Hall. Billy Ripken and Matty V have called him out for it before
The "no steroids" rule I think is stupid especially with A-Rod on the ballot who I have a suspicion he gets in cause he himself is a reporter. Even though Selig screwed all these guys over after turning a blind eye to it. And A-Rod in a time in Baseball where it was in crackdown mode got caught TWICE. Now yes I think he's a Hall of Famer but he shouldn't get in when the other guys didn't. It would be the Biggest Hypocrisy and they (the writers) made themselves more of a blemish to the Hall than if the Users got in.
Curt Schilling was a better pitcher than Buerhle, Pettite, Roy Halladay, Mussina, Glavine, and John Smoltz. Plus, Schilling's heroics in the playoffs with Boston and Arizona should get him into the HOF. He was by far one of the greatest big-game pitchers of his era. I am a Yankee fan so I know this. Shame that he is still not elected yet.
He wasn’t better than glavine or smoltz. And if Halliday played longer it wouldn’t be close. Him and mussina are close. I’d give it to schilling slightly.
Pettite was well liked by everyone across the board. He also admitted to taking HGH for recovery. The fact that he was humble enough to admit to it says everything I need to know about him. He is not a HOFer but I respect him more than those that deny. Being friendly to the voters and the media goes a long way ... see Curt Schilling and Barry Bonds.
Neither Pettitte nor Buehrle are Hall of Fame caliber pitchers
Jon Lester is never getting into the Hall of Fame - nobody ever considered him to be a top tier pitcher at any point during his career. Of the pitchers they mentioned, I think that only CC Sabathia will get in.
Jake Arrieta? Are you kidding me? Guy was good for a year and a half and that's it. HoF is for ELITE players. As much as I love CC, being a Cleveland fan, he's not a Hall of Famer. He won 1 Cy Young and was above average the rest of his career. That's awesome, but not elite.
From 14-17 Arrieta was elite. But I agree, not a hoffer CC is also an easy Hoffer. 60+ War, 3000 k's and his career ERA+ was 116, thats 16% better then average over the course of 19 seasons. Longevity maters
whole heartedly agree 100%
Arrieta doesn't get in I think CC gets in though or gets to 10th year
CC has 3k strikeouts. When did that stop being a benchmark for a sure HOF
@@mikeimpressionsreviews9831 I think he does get in it's just that I think the ballot is saturated so I don't think it's first year (I believe he is a first year HOFer) he's two years away from the ballot and in that ballot and next year you have
Ichiro Suzuki
Adrian Beltre
Joe Mauer
David Wright
Chase Utley
Jose Bautista
Felix Hernandez
Brian McCann
Dustin Pedroia
Hanley Ramirez
Troy Tulowitzki
Those are just some. I don't think they ALL make it but it's gonna be a struggle to get 75% with all those guys there as well. And past ballot players there too. He should get in though I believe that fully
that's why it's called the hall of FAME, not the hall of very good. i hate how reporters around baseball want to bring in these very good players into the hall of fame
It’s crazy to think that DeGrom has 9 years in the league and doesn’t have 100 wins yet. I wonder if he’ll get more wins as a Ranger than a Met.
Injuries fam; but at the same time when he’s on the mound, there’s no one better and let’s not forget the insane 8+ years of absolutely no run support whatsoever for this man. They don’t factor in shit like that and it’s stupid. Also, if the media doesn’t like him, he definitely won’t get in. They literally factor in how you treated the media even if the media treated you a certain way; shit that has nothing do with what was done on the field.
Not if he can't get off the injured list,he'll be there awhile.
Hamels have a better era + than cc, burhrle, and others. He have I believe 160 wins. But in this era why not. Dude was a stud and he had terrible run support. Just like Felix. I believe Felix, hamels, and other pitchers who don’t have the traditional hall of fame numbers, will get in.
Didn’t Pettite get busted for taking testosterone?
Interesting they didn’t mention Adam Wainwright. He gets 200 wins and he gets in.
Nope
I don't think he's ruined it but he's been in the top 3 worst starting Pitchers in baseball
All of these guys were good but i think its gonna saturate the Hall a little. I do think Cabathia gets in or gets to 10th year i feel bad for Mark and Petitte but i dont think their there yet.
I’ll be honest I’m such a mark fanboy I just wish the hall of fame wasn’t a joke
I don't think you can mention Pettite without mentioning PED's. I think it might take enough of the edge off his case for him not to make it in the end.
Could have said the same thing about David Ortiz and he made it
Double standards. You can’t even whisper Bonds and Clemens’ names without bringing up PEDs but with significantly inferior players like Ortiz and Pettite, it’s just glossed over.
@@spencerwilliams8443 yeah but he wasn't outed in the mitchell report, and he wasn't barry bonds, and it was a voluntary test, and it was supposed to be anonymous, and ortiz is really beloved.
Pettite was borderline with them. Should say everything about his HOF case
Everybodys on steroids
Wow how does pettitte get looked at but not a rod Clemons bonds or manny?
I second that
@@MurderStew420 hall of fame for any sport is almost a joke at this point. Cherry picking players.
I think the assumption (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Bonds and Clemens really used them to boost performance and get to that next level, whereas I've always associated Pettite as having used them to heal after injury.
@@wendeborn8 dude they were good before the peds. Peds doesn’t help you hit spots or hit the ball. Only reason Andy gets looked at is cause he testified
Because this is a video about pitchers
CC got a excellent documentary about his secret life in the Majors on HBO.
We cannot start adding people with innings and wins and starts per year just because people aren't doing it anymore. It's the Hall of Fame. Best of the best. Buerhle and Pettitte aren't CY Young winners, they weren't even the best players on their teams some years. They were both very good, but not the best. Verlander, Scherzer, and Kershaw are the next 3 starting pitchers going in, or should be going in. I am on the fence with Greinke, I'd be fine if he went in though. He was better than Buerhle and Pettite watching him pitch. I'd also be fine if Lester get in too. I don't think King Felix has the overall numbers to get in. CC and Arrieta are a no. They both had 2 great years and above average to below average other years. Verlander, Scherzer, and Kershaw are the only HoFer locks that I could say. Go through every year in baseball, rank the top 5 starting pitchers in that year. If a guy is not on that list consistently for years, he does not belong in the HoF.
Sabathia has 3000K; he's a virtual lock to get in
It's crazy how this conversation came down to just basically showing up instead of what you did when you showed up!
The baseball HOF is a joke. It isn't the Hall of Fame anymore. It's the... Hall of Pretty good for the era. The HOF holds literally ZERO VALUE anymore. They've ruined it.
Statistics would actually say the opposite. Over the years the number of players getting in has drastically decreased
@@brandenp1187 the quality has also drastically decreased. Less players are deserving of the honor. So the numbers should decline. The quality shouldn't though.
It's like the writers pick someone just to have the ceremony because... it's big money 🤑
Until they expanded to 26-man rosters, there were 750 active players in the league at one time with another 450 on the 40-man. One percent of 750 is seven-and-a-half players. We never have 7 players inducted in one year. Currently, only 1.49% of all players (using the numbers on Baseball Reference's front page) are in the Hall of Fame. Allowing a few more guys in does not dilute the HoF. The best players of their eras should be in. The writers have elected only nine players in the last six years. If you want to talk jokes, then talk about the All-Star teams.
Hold your breathe long enough there sport, and you might get in. You should be grateful.
@NA dafuq 🤣
What a stupid response lmao
Only 7 Starting pitchers as of now deserve to make the hall of fame. The average career WAR for starting pitchers in the hall of fame is 73. The 7 players with a higher career WAR than the average are Clemens, Verlander, Kershaw, Schilling, Greinke, McCormick, and Scherzer. And yes Sabathia is not on that list, his career WAR is 62, well below the starting pitcher average. It's the hall of fame, not hall of good. If they keep putting in players with below average hall of fame WAR for that position it will start diluting the hall of fame. Someone should build a baseball museum and call it the hall of good, and induct these good players for enshrinement there.
None of them ate HOF worthy they was really good but not great in my opinion, Pettite might be the only one I might let’s slide because of post season but he wasn’t great in the reg season
And honestly they should look at batting average against, could people hit them or not should be a big reason on the decision
@@DrewAujus They don't look at batting average for hitters anymore, so to be fair, they shouldn't use it against pitchers.
I'm so glad you're a BBWA voter. Thank you for letting Pettitte 'slide'. I mean, without you, he probably wouldn't make it. Goodbye Sabathia. So long anyone who can't cut it. Andy Pettitte should really engrave your name on his plaque. He owes it to you. Thank you for letting him slide by.
If I’m Buehrle, I’d just tell CC 117
If I’m CC, I’d tell Buehrle 3,000.
None of those are better than Greinke.
A lot of finesse guys have come and gone since the 2000s, but Greinke is THE contender to carry the Maddux mantle this era. Hope he gets signed.
Are these analysts being serious lol hall of fame is for the elite only.
Wow, really? I'm happy you were here to explain it to us. I don't think we woulda known. I mean, I was trying to form a petition to get my sister elected, but you're right: only the elite. Thank you for that.
The baseball writers are penalized all these different players in the last 20 years that some players should be in already. Mcgriff should have made it in when he was on the ballot. These guys need to vote what us fans Truly believe are hall of farmer's
Nothing against Koufax but no 300 win or 3000 strikeouts. But pitchers who gotten 1 of the 2 not getting in.
This talk is lacking common sense,how good were these pitchers when they pitched,Frank Tanana,Jerry Reuss are Hall of Famers based on this conversation despite well over 200 losses!!
Pettiness is alot closer than Buerhle!
I want Buehrle in the HoF. The perfect game is almost enough on its own.
😂😂 mediocre Buehrle has zero shot.
Mark Burehrle and Andy Pettitte were decent pitchers. Utterly laughable to even discuss the Hall of Fame for them. Sabathia and Lester were good Pitchers, not Hall of Famers.
I am a lifelong Yankees fan and don't believe Pettitte should be in. His post-season stats (and he had some clunkers) give him the edge over Buerhle, but Pettitte was not a regular season ace. Mussina, who pitched at roughly the same time and in the same division, put up better numbers. Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Johnson, Mussina, and Martinez all jump to my mind as the best pitchers of the era before I think of Pettitte or Buehrle. And there are probably more that I am forgetting who just didn't have the longevity.
When do you mail your ballet it?
Sabathia has 3000 Strikeouts. Historically, that's been a benchmark for the Hall of fame
You guys are trying to distort baseball history by lowering the standard by which you can get in the Hall of Fame. All you need to do is compare him, in his playing days to top notch pitchers of his time and you will find he just does not measure up. By your standards, additional thousands of players would be in the hall! Were those players at the top of their profession in their playing days? Absolutely not! You should not advocate for average or below average players being n the hall. Brian I understand as he does not know true baseball, but past players should know the difference!
That is precisely what has taken place. Standards have been lowered.
Yes it’s simple to me, would you pick that player in a fantasy draft? I bet Burle wouldn’t be in anyone’s pitching staff 🤣🤣🤣
The hall of fame is a sham so many greats left out and so many mediocre players voted in what are we doin here ? 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤦♂️
It’s harder than ever to make it
Oh yeah it’s well known that Brian Kenny advocates for all of these guys so that he gets in the Hall. Billy Ripken and Matty V have called him out for it before
The hall of fame voters are a clown show
You're a clown show.
The "no steroids" rule I think is stupid especially with A-Rod on the ballot who I have a suspicion he gets in cause he himself is a reporter. Even though Selig screwed all these guys over after turning a blind eye to it. And A-Rod in a time in Baseball where it was in crackdown mode got caught TWICE. Now yes I think he's a Hall of Famer but he shouldn't get in when the other guys didn't. It would be the Biggest Hypocrisy and they (the writers) made themselves more of a blemish to the Hall than if the Users got in.
If Scott Rolen
Is in the hall but Barry Bonds isn’t…..are we still taking the hall serious?
take that 'are we' and turn it into an 'am I'.
Harold Baines