I'm a Protestant, but with that said, I've ordered this Study Bible, as I like to get a better idea of what the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches on certain doctrines.
I have been eyeing this Bible for a little while. After seeing your in-depth exploration of it I’d feel quite happy coming back to your affiliate link Lord permitting the time should come that I decide to buy it 👍
Reformed Baptist here.. The reason why the OSB used the NKJV for the new testament is because the NKJV reflects majority text/Byzantine text readings more than any other English translation in existence. And as some of you may know the Byzantine stream manuscript tradition was safeguarded and preserved by the eastern church for centuries. Correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that the greek orthodox church still reads from the Byzantine greek text.. i even heard that they use the Textus receptus greek text but i don't know if that is totally accurate. My point is that the NKJV best reflects and represents the majority/Byzantine text tradition rather than the western alexandrian text type tradition.
I think a good way of putting it is that this a , if not the, Catechumen’s Bible. The editors of this Bible wanted a comprehensive Bible that could really help inquirers and Catechumens understand both the Orthodox understanding of the scriptures as well how the Church understands the meaning of those scriptures in a manner that is friendly to the the person who has questions about what the Orthodox Communion believes. I really like that they have have these brief articles that act like catechetical summaries on important facets like the sacraments, or the exodus as a prefigurement of Christ’s passion. I also like that there is an article on the Book of Revelation and it’s place in the Church. As somebody who was Roman Catholic, the book of revelation was a staple in the lectionaries of sunday mass. I had known that the eastern churches did not read it as part of the liturgy, but never understood really why, only that it was accepted rather late. The article explains, briefly the history of the various controversies and heresies that sprang up over Revelation’s misuse and the church’s decision not to include it in the lectionary. Over all , it’s a very good way, as you said, to introduce somebody into the Orthodox faith.
Justin, I think seeing this as an Orthodox 101 is totally appropriate. I also find the view on Revelation interesting. I was aware it was never read but never knew why. Perhaps one of the biggest heresies around today (rapture theory) is due to Revelation
@@ConvincedCatholicism not only that but doesn’t Jesus tell us repeatedly in the gospel about how we shouldn’t be focused on tomorrow, that today is it’s own sufficient evil? The purpose of the Book of Revelation is to give us peace in confirming that, Yes Jesus will come back and he will judge the righteous and damned and that he will be with us forever. That is the quintessential Christian hope. But nowhere does Revelation tells us that we should be hyper fixed on it and neglect the meat of the gospel, which is how we live and fight for today. The purpose of the lectionary, imho, is to help instruct Christians on they should live their lives in faith and repentance and to share that faith with others in the time that we have left, wether collectively or even our individual lives.
@@justin_messer I think reading through the New Testament is not complete without reading Revelation also. Granted, that’s a little different then saying it should be in the lectionaries, but if that causes the book to go neglected over time, I don’t think that’s good. Especially since the book is so full of emphasis on itself with special blessings and curses. For example, it opens right up with this, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.” ~Revelation 1:1-3 And ending (consequently ending the entire Bible itself) with, “For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He who testifies to these things says, ‘Surely I am coming quickly.’ Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.” ~Revelation 22:18-21 I think obviously God has some very strong feelings about this book. I don’t think it would be good to avoid it.
@@littlefishbigmountain I don’t think anybody avoids it, per se. It’s just that the lectionary is geared towards expounding the doctrines of the scriptures. Part of the issue is that Revelation doesn’t establish new doctrine that isn’t already in the other NT works.
Very nice review. I'm neither Catholic or Orthodox, I attend a Baptist Church in my neighborhood, but this is the study Bible I've used for the past four or so years. Lots of people like and use it and I liked the inclusion of books such as 2nd Esdras and the Book of Tobit. The longer I've had it the more I like and use it.
Thank you for such an unbiased and great review (especially coming from a Catholic). I've placed an order. There's a newer version but not available anywhere in Europe.
Nice review. Just in case, there is another edition of the OSB by "Ancient Faith" that has the same content but is sewn and comes with a ribbon marker (available in both hardcover and Leathersoft).
Still confused between two bibles ( Orthodox Study Bible and Catholic Study Bible by Donald Senior ). Could you please tell what are the differences between both two bibles ? And which one is more worthy to buy ? Thanks in advance.
I don’t know anything about the Catholic Study bible unfortunately. I would imagine the Catholic one has theology that is particularly Roman Catholic. Which is more worth to buy depends on whether you are Catholic or Orthodox.
One of the things that makes this an interesting book is that the OT here is an English translation of the Septuagint (LXX) Greek version of the OT rather than the Hebrew OT version which is more commonly used outside the Orthodox church. The two versions have some minor differences in wording and verse numbering.
I was Protestant for 30yrs recently converted to Orthodoxy, therefore I was excited to receive my Orthodox Study Bible. But I found myself disappointed with it. As the Orthodox goal is theosis, yet when I find myself reading and excited to see what the orthodox teaching on the text is there is no explanation to my disappointment. I do understand the goal of the orthodox is not to make you a theologian, but explaining what's going on and how to attain or what it means is important. The commentaries are simple and not very deep not much thought placed into Exegesis the passages. I find myself going to the Catena app or back to Protestant commentaries.
I am sorry to hear about your confusion and frustration. Theosis is not easy to understand let alone perform. No one was meant to become a saint in one day. The fact that you are trying shows that you are going in the right direction. To become like God is to turn away from sin and give alms
And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”† This is the note While Eve brought forth children in sorrow (Gn 3:17), Mary, being the new Eve, will rejoice in bringing forth her Son; as Eve had been cursed, so now Mary is blessed. Highly favored (Gr. charitou) can also be translated “full of grace.” Mary is the most blessed woman who has ever lived because of her complete willingness to receive God's grace, or in the words of her Son, to “hear the word of God and keep it”
After reading R. Grant Jones' old written review of the OSB from 2009, plus his two video reviews, I feel really bad for the Orthodox being stuck with this as practically their only non-self-published option. I also am blown away with how Thomas Nelson can say with a straight face that the OT is in alignment with the LXX when even a cursory glance shows that it's not, without even needing to see RGJ's charts to show just *how* unaligned it is; it's the NKJV OT with the few minor tweaks TN allowed them to change and that's unfortunate. I really wish the EOB OT was finished because it would've shown just how lacking the OSB is.
@@ConvincedCatholicism I think a Catholic translation of the LXX, with patristic annotations, would be a very welcome project. Off the top of my head, the closest we can get to that now is using the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture series, which prints the RSV text but often has footnotes highlighting where the LXX differs from the Masoretic, and is filled with patristics in the annotations usually affirming the LXX reading and interpreting based on it. The only modern English translations of the LXX are the NETS (New English Translation of the Septuagint), which is revised from the NRSV OT, and the LES (Lexham English Septuagint).
@@DudeNamedDuncan Given that Thomas Nelson's own website advertises it with this language: "While the New Testament uses the New King James translation, the Old Testament contains the text the early Church would have read: the Greek text of the Septuagint, including the Deuterocanon," I actually would expect the Old Testament to be aligned with the Septuagint.
@@treeckoniusconstantinus don’t forget, this is a pan-orthodox Bible. The Russian Church, since the 1860’s, has preferred the Hebrew due how how popular the Russian translation of the KJV become amongst both clergy and laity. So this Bible is going to split the difference in incorporating some masoretic readings that the Russians prefer.
To be honest, I was expecting a lot of criticism with allusions to heretics and schismatics [forgive me]. Your review was balanced, informative and fair [and courteous] . Thanks! Looking forward to more of your videos.
Hey cool video. I was just reading Numbers, and i got to the end of chapter 16 and realised that everything after verse 35 is missing. Found it weird since it's not deuterocanonical or anything. Maybe a printing error because i didn't see anything too controversial there.
Just an update in case anyone else had this question and came across this thread: I just heard back from the publisher, and they confirmed that it was a misprint (mine was the leather cover version), but it won't be fixed until the next edition. (which might be a long way away)
@@iCarryBoatsAndTheLogs Hey, sorry for the late reply. Yeah it's alright, and the leather version has a nice feel. I feel like the print could be darker to make it easier on the eyes, but maybe thats just preference. Otherwise it was good.
I tried to be charitable. What kind of progress toward unification would there be if you just flat out insult denominations. That is not the stance of the Orthodox Church
@@ConvincedCatholicism ua-cam.com/users/shortsBss4_-S6dgQ?feature=share That video should explain to you why we orthodox say herecy to other denominations
How could anything ever be 100% Orthodox. When there is no central catechism that all autocephalous churches agree on how could every last member or the Orthodox church agree on one thing
Unfortunately it is based on the NKJV as opposed to the better RSV. Compare as one example Genesis 4 v. 8. The RSV has : Cain said to Abel his brother "Let us go out to the field". And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him.
@@ConvincedCatholicism I agree. The commentary is "faith" based. Unlike the Catholic Study Bible by Oxford University Press which is based on the NABRE whose notes are sometimes contrary to the faith.
The actual translation of the Septuagint here kind of sucks. Not very many Orthodox Churches actually use this in Church (none that I know of). Lots of Orthodox faithful use it at home, so there is that. It has its uses, but all the beauty of the Orthodox Church was completely lost on this translation. It’s very plain and sometimes oddly worded English. Whoever translated it was clearly not a writer. No calamita on accuracy, but the English translation leaves a lot to be desired.
It’s pretty wild how this person reads and uses Orthodox prayer book but hasn’t converted yet. God willing, the actions of Francis will sway his heart.
@@ConvincedCatholicismi didn’t mean anything by my comment other than I hope you see that the action of the papacy bring you to Orthodoxy. I wasn’t hoping for anything other than that.
The western rate churches function as they always have except instead of a white communion cloth. They use a red one, and they are under the protection of the orthodox bishop, which, whichever jurisdiction were there, Antiochian or ROCOR . They say the rosary etc. whatever traditions that they bring to orthodox representation they keep. in some of the more conservative angle Catholic parish is that were received into the western right they maintain their devotions to our Lady of Walsingham. They recite the Nicene creed as it was agreed-upon the fourth century the second council of Nicaea they aren’t hampered by anything this is another myth. I always feel that I have to respond to certain beliefs or Latin rhetoric about any Orthodox or in this case, anti western right mission information. Because it’s mostly predicated on the given that we have the pope so we can’t be wrong.
I'm a Protestant, but with that said, I've ordered this Study Bible, as I like to get a better idea of what the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches on certain doctrines.
I hope you find your experience informative and interesting! God bless
If you can do it, go to an Orthodox Church and take in the vibe. You'll learn much more in a much shorter period of time
I'm a Protestant too, I'm looking at getting this study bible because I'm considering the move to Orthodoxy.
As a orthodox christian I thank you for making such a good review ❤
Thanks for the kind words. Glory to Jesus Christ
I have been eyeing this Bible for a little while. After seeing your in-depth exploration of it I’d feel quite happy coming back to your affiliate link Lord permitting the time should come that I decide to buy it 👍
I would only hope that the bible can be fruitful toward your relationship with God
Reformed Baptist here..
The reason why the OSB used the NKJV for the new testament is because the NKJV reflects majority text/Byzantine text readings more than any other English translation in existence. And as some of you may know the Byzantine stream manuscript tradition was safeguarded and preserved by the eastern church for centuries.
Correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that the greek orthodox church still reads from the Byzantine greek text.. i even heard that they use the Textus receptus greek text but i don't know if that is totally accurate.
My point is that the NKJV best reflects and represents the majority/Byzantine text tradition rather than the western alexandrian text type tradition.
It depends on where the Greek church is. In America, the English language is pretty common from what I understand
This is a very good video you’ve helped me and I decided to purchase this bible so thank you for being honest
Thanks for your support
I think a good way of putting it is that this a , if not the, Catechumen’s Bible. The editors of this Bible wanted a comprehensive Bible that could really help inquirers and Catechumens understand both the Orthodox understanding of the scriptures as well how the Church understands the meaning of those scriptures in a manner that is friendly to the the person who has questions about what the Orthodox Communion believes. I really like that they have have these brief articles that act like catechetical summaries on important facets like the sacraments, or the exodus as a prefigurement of Christ’s passion.
I also like that there is an article on the Book of Revelation and it’s place in the Church. As somebody who was Roman Catholic, the book of revelation was a staple in the lectionaries of sunday mass. I had known that the eastern churches did not read it as part of the liturgy, but never understood really why, only that it was accepted rather late. The article explains, briefly the history of the various controversies and heresies that sprang up over Revelation’s misuse and the church’s decision not to include it in the lectionary.
Over all , it’s a very good way, as you said, to introduce somebody into the Orthodox faith.
Justin, I think seeing this as an Orthodox 101 is totally appropriate. I also find the view on Revelation interesting. I was aware it was never read but never knew why. Perhaps one of the biggest heresies around today (rapture theory) is due to Revelation
@@ConvincedCatholicism not only that but doesn’t Jesus tell us repeatedly in the gospel about how we shouldn’t be focused on tomorrow, that today is it’s own sufficient evil? The purpose of the Book of Revelation is to give us peace in confirming that, Yes Jesus will come back and he will judge the righteous and damned and that he will be with us forever. That is the quintessential Christian hope. But nowhere does Revelation tells us that we should be hyper fixed on it and neglect the meat of the gospel, which is how we live and fight for today. The purpose of the lectionary, imho, is to help instruct Christians on they should live their lives in faith and repentance and to share that faith with others in the time that we have left, wether collectively or even our individual lives.
@@justin_messer
I think reading through the New Testament is not complete without reading Revelation also. Granted, that’s a little different then saying it should be in the lectionaries, but if that causes the book to go neglected over time, I don’t think that’s good. Especially since the book is so full of emphasis on itself with special blessings and curses. For example, it opens right up with this,
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.”
~Revelation 1:1-3
And ending (consequently ending the entire Bible itself) with,
“For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He who testifies to these things says, ‘Surely I am coming quickly.’ Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.”
~Revelation 22:18-21
I think obviously God has some very strong feelings about this book. I don’t think it would be good to avoid it.
@@littlefishbigmountain I don’t think anybody avoids it, per se. It’s just that the lectionary is geared towards expounding the doctrines of the scriptures. Part of the issue is that Revelation doesn’t establish new doctrine that isn’t already in the other NT works.
Very nice review. I'm neither Catholic or Orthodox, I attend a Baptist Church in my neighborhood, but this is the study Bible I've used for the past four or so years. Lots of people like and use it and I liked the inclusion of books such as 2nd Esdras and the Book of Tobit. The longer I've had it the more I like and use it.
I am glad you were able to enjoy this Bible
Thank you for such an unbiased and great review (especially coming from a Catholic).
I've placed an order. There's a newer version but not available anywhere in Europe.
I hope you get spiritual nourishment from this bible
Nice review. Just in case, there is another edition of the OSB by "Ancient Faith" that has the same content but is sewn and comes with a ribbon marker (available in both hardcover and Leathersoft).
Thanks! I may look at that one too
If you are not an Orthodox Christian, understandable if you feel it is biased, but then don’t use it.
I don’t have a problem with the bias. I have a problem with the favoritism toward the East. The bible is meant to be an introduction to Orthodoxy
Still confused between two bibles ( Orthodox Study Bible and Catholic Study Bible by Donald Senior ). Could you please tell what are the differences between both two bibles ? And which one is more worthy to buy ? Thanks in advance.
I don’t know anything about the Catholic Study bible unfortunately. I would imagine the Catholic one has theology that is particularly Roman Catholic. Which is more worth to buy depends on whether you are Catholic or Orthodox.
One of the things that makes this an interesting book is that the OT here is an English translation of the Septuagint (LXX) Greek version of the OT rather than the Hebrew OT version which is more commonly used outside the Orthodox church. The two versions have some minor differences in wording and verse numbering.
Great thanks!
@@ConvincedCatholicism?
The Amazon link has an illustrated cover. Do you have the link to this hard cover version?
That is just the slip case
Ooh nice. Thanks!
Is this the exact same one that you link to at Amazon? The cover is different.
Yes, the image on Amazon is the dust jacket
I was Protestant for 30yrs recently converted to Orthodoxy, therefore I was excited to receive my Orthodox Study Bible. But I found myself disappointed with it. As the Orthodox goal is theosis, yet when I find myself reading and excited to see what the orthodox teaching on the text is there is no explanation to my disappointment. I do understand the goal of the orthodox is not to make you a theologian, but explaining what's going on and how to attain or what it means is important. The commentaries are simple and not very deep not much thought placed into Exegesis the passages. I find myself going to the Catena app or back to Protestant commentaries.
I am sorry to hear about your confusion and frustration. Theosis is not easy to understand let alone perform. No one was meant to become a saint in one day. The fact that you are trying shows that you are going in the right direction. To become like God is to turn away from sin and give alms
I am a Catholic, but recently have been interested in orthodoxy. How does this bible translate Luke 1:28?
And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”†
This is the note
While Eve brought forth children in sorrow (Gn 3:17), Mary, being the new Eve, will rejoice in bringing forth her Son; as Eve had been cursed, so now Mary is blessed. Highly favored (Gr. charitou) can also be translated “full of grace.” Mary is the most blessed woman who has ever lived because of her complete willingness to receive God's grace, or in the words of her Son, to “hear the word of God and keep it”
After reading R. Grant Jones' old written review of the OSB from 2009, plus his two video reviews, I feel really bad for the Orthodox being stuck with this as practically their only non-self-published option. I also am blown away with how Thomas Nelson can say with a straight face that the OT is in alignment with the LXX when even a cursory glance shows that it's not, without even needing to see RGJ's charts to show just *how* unaligned it is; it's the NKJV OT with the few minor tweaks TN allowed them to change and that's unfortunate. I really wish the EOB OT was finished because it would've shown just how lacking the OSB is.
I haven’t looked into the EOB but it seems interesting. I will have to agree that Catholics have a variety of choices
@@ConvincedCatholicism I think a Catholic translation of the LXX, with patristic annotations, would be a very welcome project. Off the top of my head, the closest we can get to that now is using the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture series, which prints the RSV text but often has footnotes highlighting where the LXX differs from the Masoretic, and is filled with patristics in the annotations usually affirming the LXX reading and interpreting based on it. The only modern English translations of the LXX are the NETS (New English Translation of the Septuagint), which is revised from the NRSV OT, and the LES (Lexham English Septuagint).
@@DudeNamedDuncan Given that Thomas Nelson's own website advertises it with this language: "While the New Testament uses the New King James translation, the Old Testament contains the text the early Church would have read: the Greek text of the Septuagint, including the Deuterocanon," I actually would expect the Old Testament to be aligned with the Septuagint.
@@treeckoniusconstantinus don’t forget, this is a pan-orthodox Bible. The Russian Church, since the 1860’s, has preferred the Hebrew due how how popular the Russian translation of the KJV become amongst both clergy and laity. So this Bible is going to split the difference in incorporating some masoretic readings that the Russians prefer.
To be honest, I was expecting a lot of criticism with allusions to heretics and schismatics [forgive me]. Your review was balanced, informative and fair [and courteous] . Thanks! Looking forward to more of your videos.
I hold the Eastern Orthodox to a high regard. God bless
Hey cool video.
I was just reading Numbers, and i got to the end of chapter 16 and realised that everything after verse 35 is missing. Found it weird since it's not deuterocanonical or anything. Maybe a printing error because i didn't see anything too controversial there.
Hmm… not sure what that’s about. Thanks for watching!
Just an update in case anyone else had this question and came across this thread: I just heard back from the publisher, and they confirmed that it was a misprint (mine was the leather cover version), but it won't be fixed until the next edition. (which might be a long way away)
@@sebastian.v2would you still suggest getting it?
@@iCarryBoatsAndTheLogs Hey, sorry for the late reply. Yeah it's alright, and the leather version has a nice feel.
I feel like the print could be darker to make it easier on the eyes, but maybe thats just preference. Otherwise it was good.
Can any say if this book is worth purchasing
$35 USD.
This Orthodox study bible is for beginners and it is taught in primary school.
Very nice that you teach it in schools
Orthodoxy is the one true church of Christ☦☦
It’s a part of the Apostolic faith
@@ConvincedCatholicism its the only church, all the other "churches" are blatant herecies
I tried to be charitable. What kind of progress toward unification would there be if you just flat out insult denominations. That is not the stance of the Orthodox Church
@@ConvincedCatholicism ua-cam.com/users/shortsBss4_-S6dgQ?feature=share
That video should explain to you why we orthodox say herecy to other denominations
@@panagiotisnikiforou1323Insulting the faith of others is NOT how you make converts 🤦♂️
Orthodoxy is the pure truth ☝️☦️
Gob bless
Ugh. I have myopia and get tired from reading so small text but The Bible is an exception. No choice 👊
God bless!
Become Orthodox ☦️
That is not what this channel is about
@@waynea4651 censoring would be deleting the comment.
I'm an orthodox, but this is not how it works. I assume you're joking.
I heard that the comments do not reflect 100% orthodoxy, but really not sure.
How could anything ever be 100% Orthodox. When there is no central catechism that all autocephalous churches agree on how could every last member or the Orthodox church agree on one thing
Unfortunately it is based on the NKJV as opposed to the better RSV. Compare as one example Genesis 4 v. 8. The RSV has : Cain said to Abel his brother "Let us go out to the field". And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him.
NKJV has its problems for sure but the selling point is the commentary
@@ConvincedCatholicism I agree. The commentary is "faith" based. Unlike the Catholic Study Bible by Oxford University Press which is based on the NABRE whose notes are sometimes contrary to the faith.
The actual translation of the Septuagint here kind of sucks. Not very many Orthodox Churches actually use this in Church (none that I know of). Lots of Orthodox faithful use it at home, so there is that. It has its uses, but all the beauty of the Orthodox Church was completely lost on this translation. It’s very plain and sometimes oddly worded English. Whoever translated it was clearly not a writer. No calamita on accuracy, but the English translation leaves a lot to be desired.
I wouldn’t know enough to agree or disagree. Definitely worth looking into
It’s pretty wild how this person reads and uses Orthodox prayer book but hasn’t converted yet.
God willing, the actions of Francis will sway his heart.
One should never hope for the downfall of a church.
@@ConvincedCatholicismi didn’t mean anything by my comment other than I hope you see that the action of the papacy bring you to Orthodoxy. I wasn’t hoping for anything other than that.
Biased ? Misleading ? On the contrary ! There is no Byzantine rite ! In you latin mind it exists . But in reality they don’t exist.
I was saying the footnotes were biased against the Orthodox Church’s own Western Rite. Latin nude?
@@ConvincedCatholicism sorry was using the microphone World
The western rate churches function as they always have except instead of a white communion cloth. They use a red one, and they are under the protection of the orthodox bishop, which, whichever jurisdiction were there, Antiochian or ROCOR . They say the rosary etc. whatever traditions that they bring to orthodox representation they keep. in some of the more conservative angle Catholic parish is that were received into the western right they maintain their devotions to our Lady of Walsingham. They recite the Nicene creed as it was agreed-upon the fourth century the second council of Nicaea they aren’t hampered by anything this is another myth. I always feel that I have to respond to certain beliefs or Latin rhetoric about any Orthodox or in this case, anti western right mission information. Because it’s mostly predicated on the given that we have the pope so we can’t be wrong.