Sex, Death, and Storytelling | Andrew Klavan | EP 426
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
- Dr. Jordan Peterson speaks with author and podcaster Andrew Klavan. They discuss the beauty in the “tough guy with a purpose” archetype that inspired Klavan to write, the loss of idealism in main characters, the eye-rolling anti-realism in media portrayals of young women, and how superhero films have ushered in an era of storytelling devoid of human nature, and why most new stories and adaptations feel deeply empty.
Andrew Klavan is an American podcaster, essayist, and novelist. He has written more than 30 novels since 1977. His podcast, the Andrew Klavan show, has been a staple for years, though Klavan has had other similar shows produced by companies such as Truth Revolt and the Blaze. Klavan has also produced modern “radio plays” for the DW with “Another Kingdom,” which has three seasons. Notably, Klavan was born jewish, but in his adult life converted to Christianity. Andrew grew up as one of four sons in Great Neck, Long island. His father, Gene Klavan, was a NY disc jockey. Andrews 1995 novel, True Crime, was adapted into the hit film by Clint Eastwood. His novel Don’t Say A Word was adapted into a film of the same name starring Michael Douglass. Many of his other works, along with original screenplays, have also been produced.
This episode was recorded on January 18th, 2024
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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- Chapters -
(0:00) Tour info 2024
(0:39) Coming up
(1:25) Intro
(3:14) Writing over 30 books
(4:55) Why Klavan and Peterson love Raymond Chandler novels
(5:50) The power problem all young men have to face and solve
(9:02) The mimicry of confidence, how bad men misuse female archetypes
(12:05) The thing about Andrew Tate…
(13:44) The St. George motif in modern storytelling
(15:02) To be taken by a brute
(17:58) How to write a tough guy
(21:55) Pain response and social mediation
(24:31) The virtue that stands above fear
(28:00) The biological necessity of abundant compassion and the mother/father dynamic
(30:51) The interplay of mercy and justice
(31:41) The attributes of Tony Stark, and the state of modern superhero films
(34:40) Fundamental misfire ignoring realities of male and female sexes in media
(38:46) Mary Shelley, are we damaged by immoral action?
(40:06) The two fundamental mating strategies
(42:06) Early sexual experience ramps psychopathy
(43:54) Can you “solve” humanity without removing it?
(47:16) What makes something “real”? Weighing the soul against the body
(50:43) What level of deprivation drives forward momentum?
(54:43) The folly of futurism, purposeful ignorance of the past
(56:09) Noah, what it means to be “wise in your generations”
(1:00:31) What it really means to take God’s name in vain
(1:06:10) Systemic alteration misses the true problem
(1:08:12) Coming to the idea of a moral good through the existence of moral evil
(1:14:55) Personality and identity only exist within a relationship with a grounded being
(1:18:17) When the logic of God became impossible to ignore for Andrew Klavan
(1:26:00) With every talent comes a corresponding impediment
(1:28:22) “I met my wife hitchhiking,” love and the spiritual reality
(1:31:56) God, the need for a father figure, and decoding Freud
(1:35:09) Malevolence is worse than death
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Andrew Klaven is one of the most underrated men of wisdom
Agree.
100%
Haven't seen much of him, so my mind could be changed, but too straight laced and "God is the answer to everything" for me
Second that!
He ain’t no slouch.
These two men are brilliant. Andrew Klavan is my favorite person on daily wire. I admire his humility and the way he can take serious subjects and make them funny.
This is my first time hearing him! He has wisdom ❤
He’s my fave too
Peterson and Klavan are two great minds. Thank you for doing this. Thank you DW for making it happen.
Hey Jordan... You left the pirate off the list of women's fav. Sexual fantasy figures...
@@janeproctor5542 do you think that was intentional or do you think he just forgot? 🤔
I don't know, but he certainly made up for it during the remainder of the interview. It was one long succession of listings of every list of every other list he's ever listed for sake of psychologizing just to prove, I suppose that psychology is the "be all end all" tool for mining the heights and depths and etceteras of all generalizations and generalizing that fits the pattern fit for generalizing for the purpose of making meaning out of the meaning of chaos!
If he had only remembered to mention the pirate, maybe he would not have raided the whole of the noire categories of murder and crime for thrilling psychological power points, and actually allowed us to get to know a real author by that person's own account.
Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist/professor who did a thesis on alcoholism, yet wasn't even aware of the well known dangers of benzodiazepines....
Once in a while he is still rapaciously attacked by withdrawal symptoms which turn him onto acting out the devouring piratical father on his captives.
Can we get Andrew and Jordan having a conversation once a month? This is compelling. It blows my mind when they speak about characters and philosophy that I have grappled with. It feels crazy, I have been a good and sometimes mean person. I am tormented when I consider myself. The way out for mr is I accepted the world. I found desire was a 'tough road'.
Treat people the way you want to be treated.
I second that request
@@parsonk4041Subconsciously many of us don't treat our own selves kind. The subconscious is what drives us. So true self love is necessary before we can treat others kindly.
No way
Your not being top comment
Andrew Klavan is new to me, but I love the concepts he suggested in this discussion. I’m a new fan and am very grateful for this meeting. Thank you JP.
“I feel hunky-dunky, life is tickety-boo!…” Klavan is a god amongst men
Andrew’s recent books “The Great Good Thing” and “Truth and Beauty” are truly inspiring and deeply moving.
JP should get an award for these podcast videos, they are the best..I look forward to about 3 a week
A luxurious banquet for the mind and soul. That's what a conversation between these two good men is. 🙏🏻 Thank you very much Jordan Peterson, Andrew Klavan and DW for sharing! It was amazing.
While watching them having thoughtful conversation, it gives me an insights of the importance of having a good and healthy relationships. Specially when you are getting older and need to share something like this kind of analytical conversations.
Andrew Klavan has become over the years my favourite author and also DailyWire host. He really is very wise, of course that's not a surprise since he's been around forever. On top of all that he also has a great sense of humour. Thanks for having him on the podcast Peterson!
Jordan, I made an art piece with you. You were a crouched down beside me on a wet empty and dimly lit street. You were a doctor using UA-cam as a heart deliberator to restart my heart and wake up me from sleeping. Bishop Barron was there under a street light praying for me. And Tammy was holding my young son. Thank you for everything. I can't wait to see you in Columbus on Sunday!
Andrew Klavan is one of my favorite contemporary voices. He's incredibly intelligent and deeply insightful. Klavan, more than any other contemporary thinker has helped shaped my thinking and understanding of life.
This is hopefully the first of many conversations where I see the two strongest characters I think I can learn a lot from. Thank you for the chance to listen to two wonderful people discuss powerful subjects.
This should be required watching for all girls over the age of 15.
Comforted during these transitional times of minds and hearts such as Mr Peterson's and Mr Klavan.
The 2 reasons I'm a DW sub in an interview? I am ready for this!
I've been waiting for this for so, so long. Klavan and Peterson, the top two thinkers of our time. This needs to be a regular conversation. Hail Lobster, Hail Lord Klavan!
I just read Andrew Klavan’s book, “The Great Good Thing”. It is so well written and compelling I could hardly put it down. Highly recommend!
Outstanding Dr Peterson. Andrew Klavin - the quiet achiever
One of your best interviews EVER. In the top 3, definitely
Thank you, Jordan, for saying you have to say when you have to say it.
You are changing the world for the better.
One man is changing the world.
That is so inspiring.
Joyful conversation...thank you both.
Dr. Jordan Peterson, through my fiance and I watching your channel we have recognized that I needed to seek therapy for childhood trauma and other cptsd issues as well as my avoidant attachment behaviorists, and I just wanted to say you for helping her see this, and show me so i could understand. I'm now seeing a therapist and working in the Shadow work Journal and it's helping me a lot. You also are credited in saving my relationship. Thank you from the deepest parts of my heart
That's awesome you are going to therapy! So am I for anxiety. Just don't let them tell you that you are a man trapped and a woman's body! In my neck of the woods, that is a real fear from what you get out of psychologist.
You honestly believe you can become convinced to be another gender by a psychologist? Don't you think this is a bit far fetched. You would probably notice if they would try I would think.
@@parsonk4041 Yes, you can absolutely brainwash vulnerable children. Big pharma is profiting, that's for sure. Ever hear of the medieval dancing plague? That was supposedly a social contagion as well as this whole trans thing. Yes there are real transsexuals, and they deserve the rights of everyone else. However, children should not be put in a place to decide whether they will be sterile for life, develop a micropenis, not have their brains develop fully on puberty lockers, are put on the path to sex change surgery at an early age, are able to give consent for double mastectomies. How on earth can you support the crazy trans activists?
@@parsonk4041 You honestly think children should have the right to decide sex change surgeries, which are irreversible, and which are basically treating children as guinea pigs during their surgery? A lot of these surgeries result in horrific side effects. Cross sex hormones and puberty blockers definitely create horrible effects.
Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist/professor who did a thesis on alcoholism, yet wasn't even aware of the well known dangers of benzodiazepines....
You two both have the incredible gift of making the deepest thoughts easy to understand. You both have an anointing that is powerful. You make the best arguments for morality in a world and culture rejecting absolute truth in such a mighty way. God bless you both! Thank you for this interview. Please do more! ❤️🙏
I have been waiting a long time for this conversation from the two elder statesmen of DW!
Now that’s a conversation I’ve been waiting for! Everything in our world is a story, and best storyteller wins...
Love Andrew and Jordan, pleased to see this episode released. Looking forward to watching now!
I just met you tonight Dr Peterson!! It was an honor. You were so kind. Now I can’t sleep and I have to get up very early tomorrow.
Oh well… 😁
Love you
I felt he was very aware that people meeting him were nervous so he made sure to be very gentle and warm, asking everybody their names, actually listening… Enjoy!
Finally! I was waiting for this one a long time. Liking it before even watching it 😂
Great talk sirs, keep doing the hero/villian archetypes from Marvel and Star Wars universe, and you'll have me coming back each time. It is so underrated how these stories teach young men moral virtues, brilliant
129.30 I always love his love story about his wife. I hope I find a partner where it feels like everything is connecting in a spiritual level like Klavan.
I’m a 23 year old girl from Brazil and I don’t know how I got here, but I love it here ❤❤ may God Bless you two and thank you for sharing this wonderful news with us
I'm going to listen on Spotify but I came to UA-cam so I can like and comment.
more of a statement than a comment on the video. thanks for sharing,
Klavan's reference to Frankenstein reminds me of Paracelsus and his writings on the alchemical homonculus. Part of what drove Paracelsus' critics was accusations that the homonculus was blasphemous because it was an attempt to create a human being without the necessity of a woman.
I won’t be able to come, I wish I could but am disabled with an old car… I always wish the best for you. And yours. Prayers!!
I enjoyed listening to the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast episode with Andrew Klavan, where they explored the role of storytelling in shaping our values, morals, and identities. They discussed how stories can reveal the truth about human nature, the complexity of moral choices, and the consequences of our actions. They also criticized the current trend of superhero movies and woke narratives that ignore the reality of human flaws and conflicts, and instead promote a simplistic and unrealistic view of the world. I think this episode was very insightful and stimulating, as it challenged me to think more deeply about the stories I consume and create, and how they affect my worldview and behavior.
You can see his passion for his craft in his expression! It's palpable! He's truly blessed to have found his calling!!! And amazing interview as always!!! Or rather conversation!
Boy was I enjoying this one, but dropping the reference to Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin series was a cherry on top. I really owe a lot to those books and how they let me see real leadership playout for the good and bad with Jack. And the weight of many of the deceptions in the spy threads of the novels really woke me from some naïve thinking in my youth.
It was quite the good thing to see the two of you discussing these matters together. Thanks.
Minor comic book history point: In the mid-80s when the writer and artist Bob Layton did his work on the character, it did have good sales and the character did garner media attention for the alcoholism plot. So, the character from that era is very much the template for the movie version of Tony Stark/Iron Man.
This was great. Thank you for this conversation.
Superb discussion, thought-provoking as ever. How lucky we are to have content of this quality available to all on here. Thanks to Dr Peterson and Andrew Klavan, much appreciated.
Thank you gentelmen. These type of discussions are important.
This dialogue should be a book. There are so many moments I would like to underline and return to. The conversation, essentially, deserves to be on a bookshelf with the writers they discuss.
I enjoyed every.single.minute. of this conversation. Fantastic!
This is exactly the kind of conversation that I can listen to on repeat, 24/7. I truly think that the wisdom contained in each sentence can be life altering. Thank you DW, for this amazing conversation, and I hope to see more interactions between these 2 very wise men in the future.
Been waiting a very long time for this conversation. Thank you.
Great episode, but I have one critique, Regarding the Sopranos, while Tony was seen as admirable and attractive by various characters, and there was the possibility that he might repent, by the end of the series it was clear that he would not repent and was a monster.
His mother was amazing. Truly crazy ppl are hard to depict, and that was one of the few times I've seen it done convincingly.
This has been my favourite ever episode of the JBP podcast. As someone who writes stories i'd love to have Andrew return. I think there's so much more the two of you could discuss!!!
Thank you for posting this wonderful discussion.
Fascinating. After decades of counseling, I've finally run across a therapist who's taken the time to read the stories I wrote in my teens and early twenties. His interest in my stories opened the door to gradually discussing where the thoughts and feelings came from. Stories are just memories dressed in presentability.
I find these sorts of conversations so compelling. Thank you.
Brilliant conversation, thank you.
God speed and good journey!
@@DuncanChristopher-ek5vn. God is always here.
This was awesome. Thank you both. God bless
How come this doesn’t even have 200,000 views??? Andrew is amazing
Two genuine men of wisdom
Fascinating discussion,thank you both ,gentlemen .
I've been waiting so long for this conversation!
Good morning Jordan and Andrew
Truly grateful for this, now pretty much regular, given all circumstances considered. My go to, sanity sensemaking brain gym.
In these real tough, difficult but learnerd times.
Truly grateful, indeed.
Thankyou.
💜
Klavian says he "hates" Ayn Rand because her protagonists just pursue power and wealth. It's the exact opposite! Her villains pursue power and wealth ,and her heroes pursue happiness by creating real wealth and beauty as monuments to the genius of Mankind.
We love you DR.JORDAN
Looking forward to seeing you tonight in Wichita Kansas thanks for coming we appreciate it!!!!!!
Two of my absolute heroes! You guys are the real deal! Also, I believe this is episode 426 not 226 👍.
Great conversation, expected nothing less. The things Jordan talks about can’t be faked, there are no side but the pursuit of the truth. What a gem!
This was one of the most interesting conversations I've listened to
Phenomenal discussion…so many layers. Would love to see more artists talking it out with Dr. Peterson, the combination seems to bring about some truly magical moments 👏👏👏
I love these gentlemen! Intelligent and so well-spoken! I love listening to them and reading their works.
Excellent conversation! Thank You!
Saw him speak in Omaha. Absolutely amazing!
Inspiring!
Delightful conversation!
Thank you guys!
This is a very good conversation. I won't go into my thoughts in writing here because they will be deleted.
I love these two. My favorite DW personalities. I’m excited to watch this! ❤
Klavan’s waking-up story on One for Israel is one of the best testimonies I’ve seen.
First time I saw a discussion with Peterson and it kept my interest to the end😮!!
51:50 What bothers me about so many current discussions on sex and culture and politcs etc is that 'every thing is for something else'. Which is a way of saying nothing is inherently valuable. Pick any activity and you'll get an explanation of the value of the activity purely in terms of its use for something else.
Gym = for physique = for attracting a mate = procreation = for continuation of the human species = for what?
What's the gain? In all that?
What if some activities and states are inherently valuable?
I like climbing because I like climbing. It's also a useful skill sometimes, and it helps build and maintain muscle etc. But I do it ultimately because for some reason I enjoy it, it resonates in my soul.
What if many things in our lifes were like that?
Literally, not everything is that deep!
I absolutely looooooved listening to mister Klavan. I just wish JP hadn´t interrupted some parts where he has talking about very personal things.... thats all!!!!!... thanks for this interview. Amazing!
We need Dr Peterson videos analazing heroes/ super heroes from movies like he did with disney movies in the past 🙏
Very good interview. What a pleasure it would be for me to talk with Peterson like this one day. Good info on story and lives. Much of my journey was iterated here. Thank you.
great podcast. probably need to listen a couple more times to understand all of it
Thank you to both of you!!🙃🙏🤗🤗
I am absolutely in love with Dr. Peterson's wardrobe. That jacket is pure class!
I love both these men. When I listen to them I feel much better about life and my own way of seeing things and analyzing the experience.❤
Incredible, so much practical wisdom. Thank God.
Wow I was just casually listening in "on the side" but this one was really deep! Loved the conversation!
God bless you Andrew and Dr.Jordan!
Fredric Chopin No.2inE-Flat Major, that is the absolute elegance of Dr. Peterson’s unbridled passion.
This was a brilliant convo, but the last half hour on Daily Wire is even better.
The key to a Saving Grace is framing and submission. This allows you to see beauty and experience joy. I think that it is also a gift of God, so that none can boast.
I want to hear more convos with JBP and AK...
YES! I have waited years for this
Missed you in Charleston, WV due to the theater construction issue. We hope you reschedule soon.
Story is a container for transporting knowledge in its most condensed form.
I thought I’d take a crack at answering the question.
A great story has a near infinite capacity to inform the mind and soul over time.
Klavan is so underrated. He's by far my favourite from among the DW guys... And that's coming from a catholic!
💥Beautiful recommendation by Klavan at the end. Thank you!! 🙏
WONDERFUL CONVERSATION
THANK YOU
I LOVE Andrew Klavan-he’s my favorite at the Dailywire ❤️
“You are right in speaking of the moral foundations of science, but you cannot turn around and speak of the scientific foundations of morality.”
― Albert Einstein
Thanks be to God for both of these men and this conversation! They are invaluable in my own life and to the culture at large.
I think this is great conversation to provoke thinking. I’ve learned a lot in listening. One thing I’ve learned about JP throughout my time listening to him is that he carries with him the presupposition that humans are the product of macroevolution. As brilliant as he is, it wildly skews his spoken thoughts, just as any presupposition would. I’m not here to say that evolution is true or false, but I do think there is benefit to paying attention to these sorts of presuppositions.
More people need to listen to Andrew Klavan
Simply outstanding discussion. Felt different and so happy gratitude for God was a focal point there at the end. Also, that feeling of connection described in the 1:31 area was the best way I've heard that feeling put into words and exactly my thoughts and experiences. Awesome watch thank you!
Keep up the Godly work of the level of dialogue exposure of the real world and problems rely on the condition of our soul and relationship with the interactions of our roles in this land of the living.
Mr. Peterson, thank you. Have you read up on the studies about people with addictive personalities will run towards danger vs the mainline person runs away from it?