UP and OVER rig tutorial/discussion pt2
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2020
- In this video I will show you my current version of an "up & over" rig. I say current because it is always changing and I am open to suggestions for improvement or where I am making mistakes. Everyone likes to have their own adjustments and I like to experiment to find what suits my fishing.
I am interested to hear what changes you make to your version and the differences in how you make and use it...
Please use the comments section to discuss variations and ways you have found to improve your rigs.
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Hello Mark, I know this video has been out for a while now but I felt compelled to add a comment as this, and other videos from your channel have massively improved my fishing - not only in catching a few more fish but also improving the efficiency of my setups and reducing frustration and stress while on a session!
I noticed a couple of features of your up/over rig which I have incorporated albeit with some variation.
To get going quickly this winter have used the gemini SRT spring clip system instead of the trident hangover and it seems to work just as well! Tight pickup for casting and a strong, positive eject!
From this vid I have started using power gum instead of crimps or rubber stoppers. Really good and a bonus of power gum is that you can tie a stop knot without taking your traces apart as you would have to with crimps/stoppers. When you're tying your stop knots, why cut a section of power gum before you tie? Just hold a length of p.g. for your knot, pull tight and trim the tag end. Then cut the knot free from the spool - creating only one tag end and half the waste!
Instead of the rig tubing, I took the hint from your pulley rig and add a couple more beads under the pulley to kick the snood away from the grip lead wires. Works nicely!
Keep putting out the excellent vids mark!
Hi Samuel, it is really pleasing to get this kind of feedback with one very important aspect.
You are trying out and adapting rigs yourself to suit your specific needs. No rig is perfect but being able to work out what is needed, adapt and trial is the way forward to improving. I have tried tying the power gum still connected and struggle with it personally but I do get messages from others that say it works. 👍🏻
If watching a film sparks an idea or inspires to try something different then I feel it is all worth while.
Great stuff. Loving your commitment to learning and sharing. Wonderful to let you do the experimentation and learning for me. Good style of delivery and instruction. Thanks.
Jimmyc Burfield I love how everyone supports and helps me and then I can share the good and the bad. I have met so many people through filming my fishing trips and made some amazing friends. Welcome to the channel. 👍🏻🎣🎣🎣
Brilliant tutorial again mark love the rig with the hangover.👍👏👏
Cheers Billy, just sharing what I’ve learnt from others. I hope you are keeping well. 💪🏻👍🏻
Another good video Mark. It's always interesting to see your ideas and read people's comments. I find its the of case of trial and error to find out what suits our style of fishing. Keep up the good work.
Hi Andy, no single way is “the” correct way but by instigating the discussion and everyone sharing, we can all use what suits us the best. Thank you for commenting.
Hi Mark, you make rig making absolute sense. I'm around your age 52ish? I've sea fished since I was 7 #old man. I loved more than anything making my own rigs and collecting my own bait. I had a TIA around 8 years ago-ish and since suffered from headaches/bad eyesight/weak hand grip. I lowered myself and had to buy in a few rigs and when I received them the knots were absolutely terrible ie. I could pull the knots out. It's getting to the stage I may have to hang my gear up 😢Have you heard of the old school BT wire bait stops? Happy to send you some to try out. My personal favourite rig is a pully dropper and I like the 2 hook version you made. I'm fishing the European open this year and I'm hoping to have a good spell so I can get my rig making head back on. Keep up the good work 👍
We are the same age and your experience with a TIA is very sobering. I can’t imagine what that is like. I deliberately avoid digging for my own bait after trashing my back a few years ago but I am coming round to feeling I need to. The older fishermen I know are all very active and are regularly digging bait, walking to marks and pushing themselves to be fit. I need to adopt that mindset despite having a high pressure job. Honestly more so as time on the beach/boat is my release. I have heard of the BT wire stops but not used them myself. There was a good video out recently from Veals showing them.
Good luck with the European Open. 🎣👍🏻
Great insight Mark. I was sceptical about the trident gear, only because I was happy with the gemini stuff. But when you gave me a few testers to play with I used them and realised how good they were. Bought some myself now and love them 😎👍🏻
I think we all have our doubts when we are happy and comfortable with stuff but it is exciting to try new. I’m glad they worked out for you and I’ve been particularly happy with the Termalinks and Hangovers.
Fantastic video, I only last year got into sea fishing and mostly been using pulley rigs till I randomly found an up and over, got me really intrigued for how effective they were. Very helpful video, never even heard of trident hangovers till now but gotta say they look like a fantastic lil gadget so bought some! Subscribed to you now and look forward to testing these out! Tight lines!
Keeps us updated on how you get on John and if I can help at all. 🎣👍🏻
Brilliant tutorial Mark and answers the questions I posted to you a couple of days ago.... Can't wait for this lock down to lift now so I can go buy the bits I need and get out and give it ago
I hope it works well for you Steve and I would really appreciate any feedback you have if you do try it out. I thought this would answer the questions you had.
Yeah I'll definitely let you know how it works for me.... Just need to be able to get out now 😩 thanks again 👍
Hi Mike, I am a keen catch-and-release angler developing my rigs to be user-friendly in extracting the hook, increasing fish survival. The latest craze is the Bongle/ Dangle rig a sea fishing version of a course fishing hair rig. South Africans have been using it for years, so it's not a new invention. The only change to your rig in making one would be to use a circle hook, attached to it is a length of 200lb braid loop tied at both ends the length of your bait. One loop to the circle hook the other to your release imp. There are many videos on youtube showing exactly how it's done, there is also a version using straight-through mono. Tight lines!
Cheers Len, dongles will feature in my hound fishing this year. 🎣
very nice presentation , also very good working rig , keep up the good work .
Cheers Keith 🎣👍🏻
Hi mark loved this tutorial on up and overs. I've been wanting to purchase them but always felt they wouldn't be any good until I seen this video :) I'd pay good money to have these in my tackle box keep doing what your doing :)
Aaron Grubb I could make you a couple to try out if you are struggling to piece together the components. Message me via Facebook, Instagram or email me and I’ll send a couple.
Wow thank you for the quick reply I'll be sending you a message thank you very much much appreciated mark!!
Another great video mark well done mate 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Cheers Lee, keep safe buddy.
Mark Williams Sea Angling and you mate 👍👍👍
I always put a tuck/ clinch in those half blood knots. It's my absolute go-to knot since it is the first one I learned, but I had numerous knot failures in my younger years due to not including the tuck/ clinch. I've had very VERY few knot failures since I put the tuck/ clinch in as standard.
The tuck does make a difference to strength which is why I like the grinner. 3 turns up and 3 down makes for a strong knot.
Awesome !👍👍👏👏
Thank you 🎣👍🏻
Hi mark I have used the association in 60lb for rig bodies for quite a long time now and power gum stop knots for years and not had a problem with either great video yet again keep it up
Sorry asso
Cheers Nick 👍🏻
I'm going to give this rig a try. Have you tried tying a stop knot with the power gum still on the reel? You'll have to remove a few turns so the reel doesn't get in your way but don't cut it off the reel at the start. You will have 50% less wastage when you cut the tag ends because one is still part of the reel.
It was suggested to me and it is a viable solution to reducing waste, we all hate waste. I do believe this is a go-to rig for many species and situations but it is a firm favourite of mine for hounds and rays. 🎣
You've got me thinking. Surely someone on this group can come up with a shortcut to tying a powergum stopknot...without waste or greatly reduced waste ...a tool.....or method.....would a pair of forceps ( or two pairs used at the same time) hold the answer i wonder. I find it amazing how easy forceps can make tying various fly fishing knots. The power of a crowd's brain power.......
Superb video and explanation Mark by the way.
I’ve used the power gum when making a three or two hook rig as you can adjust it any time
I like power gum but I always waste so much using it.
excellent thanks
Hi Mark, just a thought with the up and over rig. I remember seeing a video on UA-cam were a piece of silicone was used in place of the spring . The length of silicone was around 70mm. It’s something else to try, keep safe and tight lines.
That is a good idea and not something I had considered.
If you don't have rig springs, a piece of tubing will do the job.
I used the pulley rig 4 bead thing on these up and overs,, it flicks it out well 👍 instead of tube. Also I code my rigs now with how many bears I use, size 2/0, 2 yellow beads the rest black, size 5/0 5 yellow beads ect. I know you like your little tips/ideas
Geoff Saunderson cracking idea and so simple but effective. Love it. 👍🏻
I use a couple of larger size silicone float or rig stops instead of power gum. I find it's neater with less wastage. Going to try the new adjustable crimps next.
I did play with the adjustable crimps but didn’t like them too much. Nothing wrong with them but they are quite large.
Try telephone wire as crimps,moverable and does not crimp the line can be used on flapper rigs instead of crimps will move if you get snaged snoods can move and hopefully you get it all back .just twist the telephone wire around the line tight trim ends and your done ,no need to strip wire use as is cut into about 1inch bits .
Mark you tart . I love it, I have never seen some one with the didecation you have. If you still like crimps, breakaway make them with rubber inner for the crimp and tool.👍👍⚡👊
Hi Robert, I like trying different stuff and sharing the outcomes with you all. Hopefully along the way we can have a laugh and share the ups and downs of UK shore fishing. I hope you are keeping well and I’m just counting down the days until we can get out again. Spending plenty of time in the workshop as well.
Me too Mark. keep it up and hopefully we'll all back on the beaches. Stay well brother 🤙👍
Robert, I’m working on a few videos this weekend so plenty more to come over the next week or so whilst we are all at home.
Great tutorial as always,very informative.Love the way you've developed the rig. I'm sure someone will have told you the 10lb per oz of weight for rig body/shock leader ?
Hi Kevin, that seems to be the widely accepted rule of thumb and a good guide.
I use the tight rubber beads that carp anglers use in stead of crimp or power gun
I have tried those but the grip strength does vary with the different brands, do you have a preference?
Excellent rig. Rather than faff about with power gum stop knots, I use a pair of Drennan Grippa Stops instead.
Do you find them strong enough?
@@seaangling They're made for coarse float fishing (there's a couple of sizes), so fit tightly on thicker sea fishing lines. I use them as bait stops on snoods also.
hello Mark, as an alternative to power gum stop knots use neoprene rig tubing cut to 3 to 4mm lengths tied with a single knot.Better still use 3mm OD x 1.5mm ID NEOPRENE tube can be bought on the internet in lengths of 20 mm in 100No packs at a fraction of the cost of rig tubing. Works fine for me.. sorry to bore you. John
ua-cam.com/video/TabaKwGTNo0/v-deo.htmlsi=eVA0-sbbv3VEgXqI
If helpful.....This vid from Veals MO shows options. Sorry I appreciate that the MW video is quite a while ago now.
I like Mark's point about adjustability. After all.....Who can tie an exact length of hook snood its close to impossible if it's got a knot both ends. I know I can't. So having adjustability is so useful.
I use that along with a 2 hook paternoster on a second rod at Milford. Just starting fishing again after a 6 year break. Collecting a Diawa supercast STS 13 pm on Tuesday to replace my 40+ year old Abu Atlantic. I need to replace the guides on the Abu.
A good choice of rigs to cover ground and species. A 40 year old Abu would be a thing of beauty, how does it fish?
@@seaangling I've not really had much to compare it too. I've had it since I was around 9 or 10 lol. Compared to a Shakespeare Atlantis I used to have it is quite stiff. It's only 11'9 and I was always happy with it. Bite detection is ok i think, but the Atlantis would show crabs nipping.
I do find now though that I cannot cast it as far due to the fixed real seat and I've just started casting real down. It needs more length in the butt to get more leverage. I guess removing the cork and seat would sort that out. However I often used it as a close in rod so it didn't matter.
It's old, battered, well used and has an eye missing but it still catches fish 👍.
Oh and I colour code it with a matching brown millionaire 6hs 😎
Hi Mark another great vid, I'm a big fan of asso rig body but use 70lb on all my rigs. I use Gemini neoprene rig tubing for my stop knots power gum is expensive and a lot of waste. You should try getting some power swivels from Andy rutherfords they are the dog's dangle bits very strong and compact. Keep safe mate and tight lines.
Does Andy Rutherford sell online?
@@seaangling Hi Mark you need to look up Rutherfords angling Ltd. There based in Sunderland the swivel sizes I use are 8 & 10 small but very strong. Hope this helps stay safe 😷
There called cjt power swivels... I used them for years and all my rigs never had one snap... Bright yellow pack.
Good rig!
Cheers Stuart, I’ll make a spare for you to try next time we are out 👍🏻
Thanks I’ll look forward to trying it
Hi Mark, really enjoying the channel, your thought process and share your enthusiasm of AFAW with a pair of 6&Baits fs Mk2's👍Been a while but I see your goto rig has reverted back to the tried tested Pulley for this year! I was hoping your last updated version with the Trident hangover clip would give me faith to try the U&O again but I've found it no better than anything else that's available with a fail rate of 50%, small baits, worm ect seem better but Hound n Ray sized baits generally unclip in flight! Now thinking there may not be such a thing as a reliable solution for the U&O rig. Your thoughts please Mark! Tight Lines Mal Earl
The up and over rig is a good way to get a running ledger out at distance but it does need setting to fish properly. By that I mean once it hits the water and it is sinking it needs to be drawn out to straighten the rig and have it fishing well. It can end up in a ball on top of itself if this isn’t done.
The pulley has less chance of detachment but needs a L-R / R-L run to set it correctly. The weight should be uptide and the bait down tide and not too much tension from the rod tip. This forms a shallow shaped triangle and gives direct bite indication.
In truth I like both.
Hi Mark thanks again I’ve watched ur link a few times and read the other comments which I loved Thankyou I see it was a while ago what is ur preference now power gum crimps or silicone tubing to use on a Hangover rig
I can’t afford to make loads of different rigs sorry
Do appreciate ur info
Chris
I personally like power gum stop knots for any aspect that benefits from adjustment. I do get lazy and use crimps some times for fixed aspects.
Brilliant thanks again I’m on it I’ll let you know how I get on this week
Thanks
Chris
Can I have a sticker lol
I also like an adjustable solution rather than crimps. However, rather than Powergum I use a number of short lengths of rig tubing, with the rig body passed through each length twice, then pull the rig body tight so that the rig tubing ends up inverted. Same result though 👍
I have tried that Simon and it is easier to initiate rather than the tying of knots. I like the strength of hold you get with the stop knot but both methods I feel are preferable to crimps. 👍🏻
instead of the power gum , try a 1inch coil of telephone wire single strand wound over a safety pin , slide on as you would a crimp and then twist one way to tighten and the other way to loosen , been using them for yrs along the south Norfolk and Suffolk coast with up to 8oz leads and if you twist them tight enough they don't slip until you slightly untwist them . cool vids I am enjoying your presentations .
I’m interested to hear more about the telephone wire as I’m not sure I understand it properly.
Sounds far to complicated for me sorry I think u would have to show me but thanks for ur feedback
Chris
Hi Paul , this is going to sound like I am full time critic , but its not meant that way , what I don't get is why it matters which way the line enters the pennel hook, as it can only hook straight anyway, as usually it is wound on by 2 or 3 wraps on the snood , meaning I would have thought it operates in the exact same direction as the line . you really do a great presentation of your vids and I for 1 really enjoy watching them , so please keep on beavering and show us along the way . cheers Keith (alias Travellinghawk )
Who’s Paul?
@@seaangling I am sorry mark , I had a reply from a reply I added to a vid of yours and the reply came from a Paul , my apologies, sorted .KP
@@KEITHPARRIS2949 no worries buddy, I’m pulling your chain. Reference the hook question considering the pivot point and entry point of the line, front or back of the hook will either increase or decrease point movement. Even if only a fraction, every little helps. 🎣👍🏻
@@seaangling ok cheers , lol be interested to see it works long term , as I am not convinced as surely the point of the hook is restricted by being hooked in the bait (looking at the angles etc ) so keep us appraised , and keep up the good work , did the drawing of the telephone wire set up make sense , as it totally has never slipped for us even with a power cast .? cheers KP .(oh btw I am usually self flushing ,lol )
I use rig tubing instead of crimps, just cut about 7 mm then tie a knot with the rig tubing , you can put as many as you want, the more you use the less it will move, but fully adjustable , the power gum is good to, but not as cheap as rig tubing , thanks for sharing
Thank you Winston, I did try what you describe but personally prefer the gum. Both ways work well and are preferential to crimps imo.
I also use ''Neoprene''' rig tubing but I use 2 pieces 5mm long together they lock better than one longer piece, much, much cheaper and easier to tie.. the neoprene tubing can be bought on the internet in 20mm lengths at a fraction of the cost of rig tubing (its proper use is in the electrical trade)..
Very interesting, made me go and make one. The only issue for me seems to be the connection of the bait release clip or weight to the rig. Not a problem with the imp but with all the ones I use you need an additional rig clip. Possibly one more thing to snag up. I will let you know of any issues I run into. 😀👍
I am very interested to see how you get on.
good rig , anyone can use any components but please look for Sandman s tackle time , there is a better version (fixed up and over) , just my opinion Mark . And by the way I had rays caught with 2 ft long rigs , all depends of the tides , currents , the weight of the baits , positioning rods etc . Tight lines !
Everyone will have their own variation and that is the beauty of sharing. People can view and adjust to suit their fishing for the species they are targeting in the position they fish.
Hi new sub here and catching up with your videos and I love them so far especially the beach fishing ones.
Have you tested this rig out quite a bit since this video?
My first thought is that the imp would not hold as all the casting forces are through the plastic part of the imp? Also does the plastic hangover hold as that is also under casting force?
I only use imps for clip down rigs where they are just required to hold the baited hooks in place during the cast.
For pulley rigs etc I tend to use the metal bait clips or the leads with the metal bait clips.
Sorry if this has been addressed already as I said I’m still catching up on the videos.
Cheers 👍🏼
It is a fair question and surprisingly it hasn’t been asked before. The imps are very strong and I’ve never had one fail.
The hangover has its restrictions given its size but when it can be used it is very good.
@@seaangling Thanks for your reply👍🏼
I will give the rig a go then. Cheers
@@peelman12345 let us know how it goes. 🎣👍🏻
love the rig making videos, it would work better if you did overhead camera on a white flat surface, many thanks though
I have thought about different ways to film them. 👍🏻
Hi Mark I have not done any fishing many years, I want to start again. Your video was great, can you tell me wear I can get the up and overs from please. I can’not fined them. Thanks Crrssley
Crossley Coleman, I make my own traces and this particular one and its adjustments was made with help from all of the subscribers. If you private message me with an address I’ll send you one next time I make some. 👍🏻
Either that or email me
markwilliamsseaangling@gmail.com
Mark Williams Sea Angling Thank you Mark my address is 47 DEFOE ROAD I P1 6 SN IPSWICH SUFFOLK
Great video. I been thinking exactly the same thoughts about the hangover clip. My question to you is, have you use a rotor clip instead of an imp. Do you think they would work OK? Cheers keep up the good work 👍🎣
The roto clip would serve a purpose if you wanted the rig captive possibly for off the ground casting and would be a cheaper option but I do like an IMP. I think this would come down to personal preference and for me I like the IMP and the way it works on their rig. I prefer the roto bait on a pulley rig. I hope that helps.
Thanks Mark. I'll have a little experiment. I've only ever used gemini bait clips and only just found out about trident components. Think I might get some imps to try out. I am relatively new to beach fishing. So I guess its all down to experimenting and finding out what suits your personal preference. Thanks for the reply. 👍🎣
Try what you like and try to match components to where you fish. You will get deep satisfaction from matching the right kit to catching. 👍🏻
The spring works in the opposite way. The line stretches so if the spring starts as compressed as possible then until the hook is let go by the clip.
Also the idea of the crimp is so it locks off the spring position.
It’s not a design flaw.
Crimps are a prime if proper crimp pliers are used.
The instructions that come with an srt spring say to not fully compress and to leave, I believe 10mm of compression. When the hook is captive the spring is having the added benefit of minimising damage to the snood.
Crimps by their description have to crush which reduces diameter, however small.
@@seaangling good points.
The issues are I guess. No one would know how far the rig body line would stretch during a cast.
Also for how long the stretch would last.
I a
Can see why. Gemini would say that as the 10mm extra would provide a tolerance for that purpose.
Hi Mark, just back from Norway and your MK II clip down and pulley rig work very well. Thanks for all your help. Now I have a question for you, Why use a clipped up and over rig? what is the advantage or disadvantages. Also do you know the best rig for Halibut as they like the bait just off the bottom I hear.
Interesting to hear how you got on in Norway, it is on my list of destinations to try.
If the rigs have helped in some way then it is all good and very positive to know.
I believe the halibut are more predatory than we give credit for and are active sight hunters. Do they fish for them using static baits or jig with an attractor and bait loaded hook.
As for the up and over rig it is really just a straight forward running ledger with the hook snood tucked up out the way for casting. I find the running ledger presents the bait nicely in a tide and gives amazing bite indication.
@@seaangling Just fantastic trip Mark. I went to Skarnsundet where Phil and Toby run a great angling center where you can fish for anything you want. We had several fish species. Not too costly for Norway. If I can be of any help just let me know. We are going back next year, hopefully two trips. We went for two weeks and I would recommend this as there is no rushing around. Your own accommodation and a car. There are boats you can hire as well. I like the shore but did the boat one day.
ua-cam.com/video/XDHzlvXJZbo/v-deo.html
worth a watch just look at the Skarnsundet UA-cam films.
Interesting stuff and something I am very curious about. 👍🏻
Hi, thanks for the great videos. I live in Margate, Kent and I am finding it difficult to find a Trident Tackle supplier, any suggestions,
Regards, Len
Len Johns, Trident will only deal direct and not through a tackle shop. You can find Trident online.
@@seaangling thanks for the prompt reply
Do you have a pic with the bait attached to the top pennal hook . When I used the pennal system I put a bit of silicon on the line and top hook to aid presentation . I am returning after 20 years away and was shown to me so any pennal hook set ups I use silicone .So that is why I am asking for a pic of the pennal baited up out of interest.
gerald, hi. If you skip to 20:15 on my pb small eye ray video there is a full pennel bait up.
I will be filming some bait specific videos soon.
A proper crimp tool for rig crimps means the line suffers zero damage to the rig body.
A crimp by its description “will reduce line diameter” and therefore strength compared to its original specification. You can either upgrade the line to account for this or accept the reduction.
Mark, use a 5 turn stop knot. That will cut the need for the 2 knots.
I’ll have to look that one up but thank you for the tip.
Mark it's the same knot as you have been using . Most only tie a 3 turn stop knot, that's what I had you had done.
For lighter rigs 4oz and down I glue my rigs. I've not had one snap and fully cast the lead. I alter the hook snoods depending on conditions. For flatties I don't go less than 6lb and above 10lb .
Hook size , I use a size 4 partridge worm hook for most of my match fishing. I step it up size 1 and very seldom do I go over 4/0 unless I'm fishing for specimen fish.
I had great success using the Portsmouth rig at this years EOBC. The rig can be made 1 up,1 down or2 up 1 down clipped.
Not sure of the need for really long rigs?favour 2/3ft hooklengths on pulleys or use 2 hookrig in a dvice,liking the trident tackle gear though
The beauty of the rig is you can shorten the hook snood to suit the conditions and adjust the hangover to tension correctly.
There better be a "flippy floppy tail" in this 🤔
Geoff Saunderson only in the fishing vids.
Mark Williams Sea Angling oh god! Never the Twain lol 😂
Hi Mark
What bits are best for west bexington for bass?
I would fish close in with a pulley pennel rig and medium sized baits, somewhere close to the turnover zone.
Hi what size rovex tubing did you use
1mm
well done are you selling any ?would like to buy some if I may cheers
I haven’t had the time recently to make any extra.
@@seaangling well if u do giz a shout cheer
Cannot find the trident hangover
They are supplied direct by Trident online.
@@seaangling AH HA! Found and ordered thanks 👍🏼😁
You seemed to be too far from the camera could not really see what you were doing
Did you watch part 1?
Part 2 was the enhancements.