How to Install A Start Button
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- in this episode the boys bow under the pressure of their email inbox to show you how to install an aftermarket start button in your car.
!! YES. We DO own hole saws. Thank you for asking !!
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Also something to note around Mighty Car Mods: we are normal guys and are not trained mechanics. We like to make interesting car mods and show you how we've gone about it, but we can't promise that anything we show you will work for your particular car, or that you won't harm yourself, someone else, your car or your warranty doing it. Please be safe, be responsible and unless you know what you're doing, do not fool around with very serious machinery just because you've seen us make it look so easy. Talk to a qualified mechanic if you are in any doubt.
This video is intended as Entertainment only.
I actually thank you guys for this, I installed one just under the edge of my seat. The day after I come out of Walmart to someone sitting in my car trying to start it, but couldn't find the button. The police showed up shortly and one more dirtbag is in the brig. THANK YOU GUYS
+Andrew Reed I installed it originally because my ignition is funky and doesn't work properly. Being a 25 year old car and all this was a simple temporary fix.
+Andrew Reed did the exact same thing, installed it under the dash board out of site,,, came out to my van to see someone trying to steal it (1969 Chevy Van90, just like the ol Scooby-Doo van) My ignition switch stop working correctly... Anyway things didn't end well for the thief.
*****
Nah but he did get a up close and personal view of my XD40... I just made him stay in the vehicle, with his hands in the air. Until the police showed up
And they say "guns don't stop crime" heheh
Why would he steal a 25 yo car lol
First off - I love these guys they are hilarious and helpful - 2nd the best way to install these push button ignitions is to wire them slightly differently to bypass the key all together - rip out the original key ignition (you can use a slide hammer if you don't want to take your time with it) install your push button where your key ignition used to be and then no redundancy.....of course anyone who gains access to the inside of your car can take off with it....but at least you don't need the key anymore. There are kits for push button ignitions that have a activation dongle that you hang on your key chain - (prevents starting when dongle isn't within 3' of senor in dash)
U answered my question perfectly but what do I do differently than them with the wires?
came for the diy tips, stayed for the Honda jokes
the s2000 had push button start
my golf needs only push to start.
+ColdPointlessFilms But how far do you push it? I'd assume all the way home.
first thing I did to my Honda was buy a parachute than a bigger exhaust,scissor doors and a start up button
Johnny Z. Muñoz ricer
A mighty car mods ad right before a mighty car mods video is about the only ad I will never skip
JUST USE ADBLOCK
ok so 1 ad is one minute and how many ads do we see in a day thousands so yea blocking a couple dozen of those ads is not a big deal and as fsar as im concerned considering the fact that advertisers have never made a big deal about adblock im willing to assume that they dont lose much money if any at all from people using adblock
zack, they don't lose out, MCM do. Blocking OTHER ads is completely irrelevant to the revenue created for MCM. A lot of time goes into making these videos for you. If you don't want to watch the ads as well, don't watch the videos.
@@jeremyhunter2319 The ads don't even play for me, they error out, and this is without any sort of adblock. Probably Google/YT breaking shit again
@@Reploidx9 oh yeah, does it make it look like it starts then the video carries on?
"If you wanna go Civic style, you're already done." That cracked me up..
i want to put a start swich like airplanes you know little switches on the roof inside the car
like a Lamborghini
+FaKe_narrow Except to start a plane usually you need to flick a few switches around the flight deck like on the throttle quadrant youll find the engine cutoff switch and on the overhead panel youll find different hydraulic switches which you need to switch before you can start the engines
+FaKe_narrow Planes have way more than a few switches. If we're talking cold and dark, you'll need to start up the master battery, then the APU, wait a really long time for it to start up. Then you align the IRS allowing you to get navigation. Then you switch on all the fuel pumps and hydraulic pumps. Air packs. Isolation valves. Engine/APU bleed. Then when you're ready, you push back and you switch on the ignition for Engine 2. Wait until you get 20 N1 then you switch on the fuel cutoff switch. And you repeat for Engine 1. When all that's ready, you switch of the APU and ensure the ignition switch is on the FLT mode.
MicroFSXPilot i was keeping it simple as most people would not understand a single word you have said. I know damn well that planes have more than a few switches as i was once building a 737-8 sim
+jozef beska I'm into aviation too. I wanted to be that one person who says every little detail. Never built a sim but I wish to one day. I've flown a C172 though
Thats my car. The Malaysian Version, Perodua Kelisa
My friends already make fun of me for it. And if I install this, I wont have any friends.
I love how you are just honest and just tell what a stupid idea it is :P
All I can say is that the cold solder joints you did are amazing.
3:58- "If you want to go civic style and just have the visual to impress your friends, then youre already done"
+1 subscriber
Who else thinks it would be funny to put a Fake Start button into the Car thats wired to a Camera and a Timer that prevents the Car from being Started for the Next 30 Minutes while taking a Picture of the idiot who tryed to steal your car by pressing the Start Button? :D
yes
That wouldnt make sense... like... i would destroy my own car and Kill someone (and probably get into a lot of trouble with the ATF) just to... secure my car... wich wont exist then anymore...?
+MadBadger AMEN
XDD Premium Terrorist Insurance... XDDD
+Max Joswig they do those things now days its called police under cover operations in the hood
These guys bash Civic in such a gentle way. Love it! :)
I love the sarcastic touch to this how to
Totally! I loved this one since it reminds me of the early production cars that came with a start-button but you still needed to turn the key. Like in some Ferrari. Redicilous!
I have to admit, It looks quite fancy, but it has totally no purpose whatsoever:)
i would put the start button under the back bumper
LOL!!!
Brandon Clark L. M. F. A. OOOOOOOOO
Thatd be sick just to freak the shit out of people in parking lots haha
I prefer putting that on a piston. Safe 100%
Front bumper is better. Like the crankstarter in really old cars...
stick in on the roof
Lost my key how can I bypass my sensor key to start
+Phyllis Bedwell i dont think you can... my mate just hot wired his cluster it but the computer shut the car off and beeped like shit for about 10 seconds after realizing it had been hot wired. its like the new anti steal crap.
+Phyllis Bedwell.. you go to your main franchised dealer with your registration documents & a pile of money..
Be careful of a sun roof controls..
Cute avatar dude
How do i uninstall this?
I bought a car with this, looks piss ugly tbh...
Cut the wires and remove the button?
Dr MurphDurf I cant find the screws for the center console..
i am Viking find dumb friends to impress dude, this is your life time opportunity xD
bluetorch13 well.. the thing is the previous owner got a shop to rewire it so you can only use the key.. and did not get the button removed... all it does is light up and nothing else..
i am Viking use both hands and pretend you are ONLY pressing the button. LOL!!!!
next mod show us how u changed what side the steering wheel is on :)
They didn't change it... In Australia they drive on the left side of the road. That's why the steering wheel is where the passenger would be in the U.S
could simply get a right hand drive front end clip. now putting it together is a different story lol
AGamerLife
Next episode they should show how to understand what a joke is.
Leestons well that joke was fucking shitty,
probably why i didnt get it
AGamerLife I honestly don't t think it was a joke. Just her not being aware that not all steering wheels are not on the left. Lol
I think what they were really asking for is a start button like many of the higher end cars coming out recently, where it detects the presence of the key in the car and starts without you having to take it out of your pocket. I assume they failed very hard at describing their desires.
I would hide the push button somewhere as a anti theft device
+illuminati I think by the method they used in the video.....that car can still be start with key only.(they didn't disaable the "acc" funtion on the switch,they just add a push button on the wire to do the same thing)
@@mhikari92 yeah they could of easily made it only functional by push button but they wanted to make it start with key also...
This would be cool for about 5 minutes, then get old.
Kanye if it were RFID keyed..not so much.
So do you have to turn your key & push the button?
@@jamesjohnson5700 yeah. thats why he said it was stupid at the start.
@@iloveglue3375 oh ok cool I'm going to put that in my Mazda protege
@@jamesjohnson5700 lmao why. it's same shit as starting your car with your key
laferrari starts the same exact way. I would call it a Laferrari start system.
PunchingMegaTree But calling it a Laferrari start system sounds better C:
+PunchingMegaTree bitch why you hating? you will never own or be close to owning one
@@s197productions6 that kid never replied back
@@s197productions6 Why does it matter if someone doesnt own something they think is garbage? That'd be an absolute waste of money. Besides they are pretty shit. Made of fucking tinfoil and cost a stupid amount just to insure. They're nothing but ego strokers for people with fragile egos.
Great tutorial guys ! thanks, I now have some ideas to improve my installs ! :) I must confess, I never used solder in a car installation before ! (guess it's never too late to make improvements).
parangarito22 What the hell is the starter circuit box they are referring to? do you know?
love going back to these old episodes!
BRUU-N...BRUU-N what's does the mean martin.... that part had me cracking up lmao 😂😂😂 sounds like a customer tryna explain to a mechanic the sounds they hear coming from the car lol
I love the fact the piss-taking is non-stop.
You guys should have your own tv show been watching for the past 2 hours addicted
so much sarcasm Moog!! 🙊😅 Well, I'll be honest... i was toying with the idea of this mod, but after watching this video, I've completely changed my mind 😬 Thanks MCM for talking some sense into me 🙏
on a side note, how good (aka cheesy) are these old vids!? Love them though, because these were the formative templates for what has become the worlds most watched and adored car mod channel 👌 Get chopped! ✌
Miss the old MCM days, good laughs and DIY, newer ones good but miss these えんじょ
"if you wanna go civic style then thats already done, the visual mod is done so u can impress your friend who dont know better".... LMAO im dead
The brake pedal switch works on an open loop circuit so when you hit the brakes it closes the circuit. If you tap into that with your button then when you hit the brakes and the start button it will turn on the accessories and turn the starter motor for as long as you hold the brakes and push the button simulataneously. Then you only need to push one button instead of flip a switch, push the start button, do the jig, slap your grandma, and eat a turkey sandwich to start the car. It's easier than it sounds. The starter engage wire, start wire to the ecu, ground or earth as aussies call it, and power constant all run to the key tumbler switch. If you take the starter wire and run it to the brake switch power out, and the accessories or power constant wire to the start button, you can access the accessories constant power or switch power and by holding the brakes, complete the circuit to run the starter in one motion.
3:55 "Civic Style" ahh I get ya, Canberra Civic style lol, good one mate
this idea may seem stupid but for some of us it's a practical solution. my ignition powers up but the connections when starting have worn and it can take a monumental effort to get it to start. this cheap button from china is a more viable solution than tracking down an expensive and hard to find replacement ignition for my old van. thanks for the great tutorial.
The steering wheel is on the wrong side !!!
The ignorance is strong with this one.
Noah Phelps lol
Yeah RIGHT side
***** sarcasm is generally a bad idea on the internet yet so many people still attempt to use it.. So we are stuck wondering if he's and ignorant 12 year old or simply a troll.
its a european car
What's the point of a start button if you still need the keys?
That's not the point...
Believe it or not, current Ferraris have to insert a metal key and be turned to start up the system, but the engine doesn't fire until the red Start Button on the steering wheel is pressed.
So it's a 2 step process. Makes starting the car more of a chore, but in a Ferrari it is more of an event. Pointless on any other cars though.
*****
For BMW this is true; there's a slot for the key which needs to be inserted before pressing a start button. Kind of silly IMO.
Mercedes have a traditional plug & turn ignition key (but the key is not metal but a plastic tip which goes into the slot). More expensive MBs with Keyless Go has a push button switch, and works as long as key is somewhere in the car.
***** not if you have ca
***** BMW/Beemer ? lol
This will always be the best intro to me,
Kinda reminds me. of my last car, a '99 Camry. Didn't have a formal "Start" button per se, but there was a button you had to push and hold to get it to start because the key alone wouldn't turn it on. Really fun too when the car sounds like a pissed off lawn mower. Lmao. Ah memories...
I call that double reality martin
I call it a start button
Watch yo profanity
or you could have used a hole saw , to make that hole
Look at the description
I like your intro with left and right sound
Lol, 8 years ago who would have known we'd be watching them still. Waiting for 50 years from now when they finally finish Marty's mira
Great project, now my GT86 has 2 start buttons! Double the awesome!
why 💀
2019 algo be like
Here is a 7yr old video
Me: OK
The amount of sarcasm is unreal.
Season 4 intro is so good
In thery - can you not just remove the wires from the key "starter" position and connect them to the button? That way the start button would actually make sense..
close to everything is cooler than having a honda
I have a Studebaker, and a Chevy.
Both are better then Hondas.
i have a volvo and i think its the greatest car ever! =)
I love Volvos. They are wonderful cars.
chevys are not my favorite brand but thay are certenly not ban in any way. what kind of chevy and studebaker?
The Chevy is an '89. Nothing too special.
The Studebaker is a '66 Commander.
What is your Volvo?
Made good use of this Mighty Mod out of necessity. When I watched this video years ago I enjoyed the piss taking. Now in 2020 I'm thankful that it works.
Goodness 😂 as a long time MCM viewer and sub, this is a good throwback video. I recently had to do the same with my 1988 Jeep Cherokee as it has a mechanical rod linkage to the ignition switch and ignition cylinder. The rod was bent so instead of going through the effort of fabricating a new linkage and attempting to properly realign the ignition switch to engage on "crank".. I ordered a SPST 50a switch for $6 shipped to my door. I have enough spare wiring laying around and some inline fuse holders. With all my heat-shrink crimp connectors I should be able to cobble together a solution to the no crank. It starts just fine when you short the starter solenoid so I'm assuming this will do the trick!
"Carbon Fiber roll cage" LOL!
i learned how to hot wire a car from this video
doing this is a good way to save your ignition barrel wearing out. like a common issue on holdens like vt-vy models, guys are always replacing the rear throw in spring in the back part of ignition barrel. being a plastic part it wears out fast. a button start saves key cycles meaning less wear.
If you replace the push button with a three position switch with return spring to the second position you can eliminate your use of a key. First position is off, second is ACC or accessory power and toggle push to the third position will turn the starter when being pressed then returns back to the ACC position just like turning the key. Similar to any track type car which uses an automatic cut off and no key for crash engine cut offs.
Most motorcycles use three things to start. Key to turn on electronics, engine cutoff which in a two position toggle and a push and hold to start return to neutral after start button. This idea is used for similar situations like race cars where in the event of a crash the cutoff can stop engine run if the key or ignition is broken.
One would probably favor better with installing an ignition cutoff switch which if not used will not allow the engine to start. This provides both security and the ability to put the key in your pocket when matched with a push start and stop button.
Colby Butler Only one problem: a three position switch doesn't go "BRUU-N"
Colby Butler One question. What if I'm in the second position and want to return to first? (like turning the key backwards). How do you PULL the button?
It wouldn't be a pull type or push type switch but a lever arm type switch similar to what you use for lights at your house. When you push the switch back to the original position it will be like turning the key to the off position in the original ignition. It's the same principle race cars like the sports pro series and nascar uses.
I like lever arm or toggle switches better as they have definite positions unlike push buttons which cycle through functions.
Colby Butler Or you can have the lever switch somewhere on the vertical dash, and the Start engine button somewhere near the gear stick. This way it's like starting a rally car. You first initialize the systems, then power up. Too bad I reached the age where even though these models are cool and useless, I would feel a bit weird to install them on a non-sport car only for show-off. I drive a Lancer X, but if it were at least an Evo, I would consider installing them.
How about instead of all the effort of relocating switches you just get a spare key cut, cut key ring attachment part off and shove it in the barrel. Then when you hop in there is already a key and you can just turn it?
Instructions unclear ended up cutting the red wire on my tail light.
can't you use a small button as a start button so it can be hidden for extra security?
why not
i was asking if it would be possible, I already went ahead and did that
still cant start the car without the key so that extra security your thinking of is non existant
I find myself watching this even though my car already has a factory fitted start button, lol.
Since my MX5’s ignition barrel actually broke, causing the “start” position to not work, I’ve had to do this mod out of necessity. I’ll be doing it this afternoon! Maaaaad.
wait i dont get this, doesnt turning the key start the ignition, therefore starting the car? does that mean the start button is unnecessary?
+Christian Nisperos cosmetic purposes
+Christian Nisperos You can change this so that only the start button starts the car, I am not sure how though. My old car used to have a start button that was installed by the previous owner, and my car only started by turning the key and pressing the button.
they were being sarcastic. Didn't you keep hearing them referring to Honda style. Meaning ricer mods. Mods for cosmetic purposes only.
There are RFID chipped key kits that basically delete the key start.. or cap and switch the key ignition (meaning if the RFID fails, you flick the switch to switch over to key.) So that only the switch works.
'Burning Plastic Stinks Bad'' (3:11)
-Marty
Without doubt the BEST part of this series is when they examine the instructions - bruuuuuuum! lol
For a couple of Aussies you have a good sense of humour, mate!
Does this really need a 34 second intro?
I searched the comment section just for this. Thank you. I was thinking the same damn thing.
Chip Johnson yes because it's mighty car mods. Fuck off if you don't like it mate
Chip Johnson yea
Yeah, it's a show. Deal with it. Or if it REALLY bugs you, fuck off or use the fast forward button a few times. Fucking difficult right?
The advantage to the start button would be if it starts the engine without killing all of the interior power in the same way as turning the key does. I see the advantage of that as not killing your Bluetooth connection on the radio when you've been idle listening to tunes, then you want to get going. The standard key start kills the radio first to start the car.
Does your start button do this? If not, there is the advantage of it.
+Pianoman 70s style ok I'm not actually sure if you're trolling or not but it's not the key that's killing your radio, it's weak battery, you might want to consider charging it before it dies completely.
Max Interesting you chose to comment. You sound like you don't know anything about cars. Whenever you start any car with a key, when you turn it to start position it kills all power to accessories to ensure that all power of the battery is available to crank the engine. This is normal for any car with key start.
Pianoman 70s style none of my 3 cars do that (turn off the radio or stop playing music when starting) so I guess I didn't think it would be a feature. If your car does that on purpose then I guess you're out of luck because that's ECU programming. Sorry for wasting your time.
Max What country do you live in? Every car I've ever owned in the U.S. does that.
+Max It really depends on your car's electric installation. In two of my cars it's different - in one of them ignition kills the radio, in other one - it doesn't. Also in first one I need to put and turn the key to make radio work, when I don't have to in second one. It has nothing to do with a battery.
G'day mates!! Such a pleasure to watch these mods.
For some reason this reminds me of my dad's old Freightliner since you had to activate the starter with a button instead of turning the key.
start buttons are stupid
so why are you here,trying to learn how to install a push button?hahaha
oooouch!!! ...
Bear Paws
he probably thought it was how to install a FART button
...said the guy in $5 beater
lillnemo1 hahaha probably ...
2 hands instead of 1 lmfao
In my old 69 Charger I disconnected the ignition key switch but left it in the dash. I ran the wires under the center console and used two unmarked toggle switches and a plain looking button on the front wall of the glove box there. One toggle was accessories and one was ignition. Most people never realized I didn't use a key.
'Cool, if you want to go Civic style, than that's already done, the visual mod is already done'. LOOOOL!
I was under the impression that you guys were going to pull the ignition out and replace it with the button which just so happens to be the same size... It would be cool but never mind lol
so anyone can turn on your car ? thats genius dude
So all you need to start a car is to connect the blue wires?
Alrighty then.
All you need to start your car (once the ignition is turned on) is to connect the blue wires.
Ow
Hit me right in the joke mate
DJ BroniX ?,mg
paper clip in starter relay, you wont be able to steer but its started, unless you have the keys
Need to turn and then press... Hmm 🤔 i will use my key
.
I like this intro way better than the old one!
The current one I mean.
The funny thing is in the 40's and 50's you used your right hand to operate the choke cable and used your left hand or foot to operate the starter button or pedal. Everything old is new again it seems.
this mod isnt useless i bought a car with a broken 1 piece steering colum. in other words the key deal doesnt come out. so instead of buy a part that cant be replaced. i put one 2 way switch for acc and on. then another switch for start. and well $25.00 later i had basically the same thing u got except no key. so i could go outside in the - temps start my car and lock it while its running and still have the keys. i think its a great idea atleast the way i did it. lol i got arrested one night driving home and the cops were letting my friend take the car. and 3 cops and my friend for 1 hr while im sitting in the back of a cop car cant figure out how to turn my car on. lol they had to let me outa the cop car to show em. and sence having my switch start ive missed it in the winter. and ive thought about doing it to my current car.
Quick question: Will the car start with the button if the keys are not in.
Nope
Awesome. Thanks man
+john adams yes it would stupid
+Aps Singh No it wouldn't. The button doesn't receive power until the key moves into the accessory position.
+Aps Singh No it doesn't.. The Fuel Pump/Ignition Module will not work until the the ignition switch is at Key On Engine Off. Position 3 (Start) is just a current to the starter relay.
Want to see a drum conversion to disc breaks for a 2012 Toyota corolla LE . Thanks guys and keep up the great videos!! The myth of cold air intakes was great ...
Would love to see a mode that replaces the key starter completely with a button or something like the Transporter where he starts it with a code. :D
they just told us how to hot wire
mike edwards not really, you still need a key. and with cars later than 95 most of them have sec chips in the key, so unless you can hack the engine immobiliser, not happening
I thought it was to replace the key but u have both
Nice shirt at the intro... I dub thee 'Mini Moog!'
‘Civic style to impress your friends’ 😂😂
How about showing us how to tie it in to the ignition so, like the new cars, you don't need to "enter and turn the key", you just have a FOB nearby. That my mates is why people would want you to show us how to install a start button. We don't need a video that you still need to insert the key
Why not just drill it out with a 5/8 drill bit or just smaller than the button
Ironically Moogs favourite car (classic mini) had this type of set up in 1959 but with the starter button on the floor and the key in the centre of the car on the switch panel.
now you can show ya frens that dont knw betta lmfao thats shit had me dying 😂😂😂😂
Stick with a key. Less to go wrong. Stories all over of people being stranded because their car won't start with the button. Low battery, bad connection, etc. etc. etc.. Key is the way to go.
Yeah but you can still start it with the key if you don't wanna use the button
A hole-saw is a couple of bucks. And it would have done a better job.
Stralia
Ya but then the show would be like every other shade tree mechanic show in UA-cam. These guys use hammers and sticks to remove an alternator = Street Cred
Look at the description
I see these being used on older cars. When the original turn key start is no longer working. A lot of older cars use a cheap pop metal toggle gear setups on steering columns.i like the push button start setup they use on 2010 Nissan Altima.
from memory from when I did this years ago if you cut the wire after the solder you should be able to only start the car via the start button....
What kind of wire stripper/cutter is that @ 5:07 ?
+RellyOhBoy Self adjusting wire strippers
Link for reference:
www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-2078300-Self-Adjusting/dp/B000OQ21CA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456214992&sr=8-1&keywords=automatic+wire+strippers
+RellyOhBoy oh those things are the bomb. I work at blackwoods so got a pair pretty cheap. Dont go to amazon you will just waste your time. www.blackwoods.com.au/part/07812051/wire-stripper-cws1-crescent you should be able to find at most wholesalers and probably masters too.
I would install it on the roof (inside) I think it would be unique.
...just let the back of it stick outside of the car through the top of the roof
copedipper25 Yea sure
ikillzombies59gaming
drag cars have had the switch panels on the roof for years, nearly all drag builds have them
lionellinesfan Your point is ?
ikillzombies59gaming
you said it would be unique if the switch panel was mounted on the roof, i pointed out that drag cars have it mounted there, im not saying it isnt unique because drag cars have it, im just mentioning it. personally, i think having it roof mounted looks less messy and gets everything out of the way, its not a bad place to put things in general
Towards the end "i like it man" had me rolling
I miss these DIY
Make it modern style and remove the key completely. All new cars don't have a key hole AND the button. They only have the button
Then anyone can hop in an have a go.. unless you put some kind of range receiver in the key fob or something that closes the circuit when the fob is inside the vehicle..
***** New cars have that too. My friend has a car that has button unlock on the front and back doors. Along with a button start. It will only work if the user is within I thing 2 to 5 fees of his car. The make is BMW I think. I'm not sure though
EpicEverythingDude75 That's because the key fob is on the driver, in this case there isn't any fob detector, meaning anyone can hop in and go.
***** I heard you can relay it to your alarm system so that the button only works when the car alarm is set to unarmed. I'm more likely going to go that route if possible.
tman229 Wow that's pretty cool :)
BRUU-N
rofl
Had this start button in my '77 Opel Manta installed by previous owner, cause ignition switch was broken. Cost me around 2$ to fix it using parts from '82 Opel Kadett ;)
THE LEGACY OF FUTURE EPISODE, IT SURVIVED
Two words, hole saw.
1 word. Description
Comment of the year hats off dude
+Its_l1fe right haha
BRUU-N
I love how you guys tell it how it is.
JOB done we put a stat button in and it works great installed because of failing to start with key many failings to start more reliable