Treating "Borderline Woman - Psychopathic Man" Couples | Clinical Challenges
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I describe a romantic relationship type where an individual with borderline personality disorder is with an individual who has antisocial personality or psychopathy? I've also heard this question asked where one person had narcissism. For this video, I'm really going to focus on borderline personality disorder on one side and psychopathy on the other side, because psychopathy really covers a lot of these other characteristics we see with antisocial personality disorder and that we would see with narcissistic personality disorder.
Borderline Personality Disorder.
In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), we see nine symptom criteria for borderline personality disorder and five have to be met for a diagnosis. The symptom criteria include frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, unstable relationships, identity disturbance, impulsivity in two areas that are potentially self-damaging, suicidal behavior, affective instability, chronic feelings of emptiness, inappropriate or intense anger or difficulty controlling anger, and paranoid ideation or dissociation.
Psychopathy:
There are two types of psychopathy: Factor 1 (primary, interpersonal affective) and Factor 2 (lifestyle, antisocial) psychopathy. Factor 1 psychopathy has characteristics like grandiosity, pathological lying, manipulation, a superficial charm, callous, unemotional, low neuroticism and lack of guilt or remorse. Factor 2 psychopathy has a parasitic lifestyle, being prone to boredom, sensation seeking, impulsivity, irresponsibility, a failure to have long term goals, poor behavioral controls, and criminal versatility.
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
Love, A., & Holder, M. (2016). Can Romantic Relationship Quality Mediate the Relation Between Psychopathy and Subjective Well-Being? Journal of Happiness Studies, 17(6), 2407-2429.
Bhatia, V., Davila, J., Eubanks-Carter, C., & Burckell, L. A. (2013). Appraisals of daily romantic relationship experiences in individuals with borderline personality disorder features. Journal of Family Psychology, 27(3), 518-524
Dr Grande your presentations are sooo very accurate... this video emphasizes the hole picture regarding the "perfect" dance between a BPD and a NPD. My opinion is that it fits most when BPD is also codependent and the NPD is covert it' s so hard for the BPD to escape as for the fear of abandonment... a match made in hell...
Yes this is so true and this is my relationship all the way it is extremely hard and things don’t make sense really a lot of the time with anxiety levels and stress is killer it is so tough to push thru it especially when they up and leave but I know he has his trauma……………. and I will always understand that, or try to believe I understand him as best as I can.
"Match made in hell " made me laugh.
Me and my ex, except she was probably a co-dependent narc, and I was a "covert" Borderline.
I got BPD traits out the wazoo and it's either balls to the walls chaos, like sex all the time, drugs and partying, getting my ass kicked, screaming at people and my loved ones etc. Or self isolating, no job, no friends, just me myself and the emptiness, atleast im stable enough 😂
A factor 1 psychopath wouldn’t be interested in a woman with BPD. They’d see her as too much effort and too much risk.
Facts lol
Hah! I'm dating a factor 1 rn. My SO loves taking risks. He's above my league in looks so I'm a total simp for him.
You seem to be under the impression that psychopaths tend to be intelligent or plan ahead. Lol
@@janedoe7971what made you choose him ?
This was my house hold growing up. It was hell. My mom just stopped this mess last year because her bf went to jail im 29 had to cut her off it is too much and she has done so many bad things to me. But i honestly dont think she remembers doing it. And yea ive developed issues from it im in threapy and learning as much as i can about personality disorders
You're clueless.
Mine too, but unfortunately I now have BPD and dated a person with traits of psychopathy. Damn it was a roller coaster and lasted from 15-19.
At least I haven’t hurt too many people and was diagnosed early. I am proactive about my treatment and surprisingly am pretty self aware now.
Cut off my mother too, because she’s so bad for my mental health. She isn’t making an effort to get help or even acknowledge a problem.
Damn you look like fiona from shrek when she turns into an ogre
@@Schizohandlers I’m sorry who are you referring too? I don’t see your mother in the comments. Move around.
Simone W,
I'm so sorry to hear this. I hope you're doing well.
Hi Dr Grande. Congratulations on 78k! Well deserved. 😊❤️.
79k now 👍
@@mariothewizard3710 right on!
185k now...❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🥰👏🏻❤️
254K now.
So much growth in the last year! I love your content.
This is fascinating! The person with BPD is frightened of abandonment. The psychopath is only concerned with short term relationships. I can completely understand a clinician would dread treating this couple! I've heard that there are clinicians who won't even see those with BPD because they do not believe they can treat them. Throw psychopathy into the mix...and it's SO much more of a challenge!
Most of borderlines are pretty much psychopaths. Really not much difference in there.
@@Nobody-Nowhere that is 100% not true. Borderlines often are very empathetic and caring, but their emotions are so strong even a tiny shove can push you over the edge. There are also degrees of functionality in borderlines. I am extremely high functioning and most people can’t even recognize my symptoms when they show. However, a low functioning borderline can be very draining and narcissistic. The difference is aspd and npd people have no regard for others and may take pleasure in hurting people. Borderlines don’t usually want to hurt anyone else, thats why instead of crime and assault most borderlines self harm.
@@mccraezee and do you mean borderline psychopath When you say borderline ?
@@Nobody-Nowhere not true. Borderline are polar opposites of psychopaths. One can't function coz of no feelings and another with BPD can't function coz of too much feelings.
@@Nobody-Nowhere they’re way too emotional to classify as a psychopath.
He breaks them down pretty clearly right at the beginning.
One thing that it would be interesting to discuss is why these types attract each other ... I have BPD (with a lot of comorbidity) and I have a fatal attraction to men with psychopathic traits (particularly type 1 with strong grandiose narcissistic traits) ... I feel that only this type of men let me feel alive and gives me the intensity of emotions i crave ... but why men with psychopathy are attracted to women with BPD? Because they can control them? Or rather the opposite given the propensity to risk taking behavior of BPD (including promiscuity)? Or other? ... please make a video on this. ... Many thanks for your content...it is of great help
Very interesting but oh so difficult to live. A seemingly sweet yet 'victimized' lady pursued me and even though her crisis counselor forewarned, the 'rescuer' within me bought a ticket for a ride on her affective rollercoaster right up until she returned to her seriously troubled ex. Upon careful examination of both our upbringings then exercising my weak-muscled boundaries, my needless white knight persona was bucked to the dirt and the stubborn yet temporary sting led to a much needed awakening. I white knight no more. Very interesting indeed. Thanks doc.
same here.The one i got a hold of was a shrink to boot. Imagine how manipulating she was.
I was diagnosed with BPD before CPTSD was in the diagnostic manual. It never quite fit, but I was fortunate with my therapists realised that and I believe Complex PTSD was being reported and beginning to emerge between mental health professionals. I am doing better and better all the time after struggling for so long. I will always work on myself, maintain my mental health, now I know how to do that and enjoy it.
There is a difference. I know quite a few with BPD with no history of abuse.
I thought i too was bpd i dont do all the extra like my bpd mother she caused me major issues doing so much better with my contact with her being limited to maybe once a month
honestly i think BPD should be reworked as some form of complex ptsd
@@anonymerbenutzer5574 I've never seen that. Abuse/trauma seems to be the basis for most cluster B.
fuku u I agreed, 80% of BPD have cptsd. I myself thought I was normal and turns out my BPD is caused by cptsd too. I have never seen or thought of myself as someone who suffers from ptsd bc mine was continuously done from emotional abuse as a child and I just thought it was normal. When I talk about it I just laugh it off bc I always thought of it as “oh well it happened, I’m over it” but bc my body reacts the way it does, obvious tells me it shaped my personality in a very bad way and o may not be over it the way I thought i was.
Good grief. Fascinating and interesting. Can't help but feel compassion for these couples. Life can be difficult enough and then add in the disorders. Makes me grateful. Thankyou Dr for an excellent description.
Just as I am grateful for not being patronizing towards others.
Ya I had a similar relationship but I became more calm and my husband did not...def he had strong psychopathology traits..drug use, prison, violence, verbal abuse...they never change
If you became calm in a relationship like that you almost certainly didn't have BPD.
true
Hi Dr. Grande. I'm hoping you can do a video explaining how these personality patterns use flying monkey's against the scapegoat and provide examples, and explain if these tactics are used more with narcissism. Thank you.
yes. i was going to ask this ? too. particularly the unrelenting cruelty towards shannan watts who was murdered by her husband. it's fascinating, insidious and painful to witness.
This type of relationship might have a certain exciting "fun factor" for the two people involved, but I can only imagine what a genuine horror story it would be for any unfortunate children involved.
Thanks for this comment. This tandem will create another generation of hybrid awful personality disorder, and the collateral damage will be experienced by the taxpayers and the community where these folks live.
@@marie.s9995truth
Thank you Dr. Grande for explaining about the difference of cognitive and affective empathy between BPD and NPD.
@@RN-gx7wt Thank you. I correct it now.
Thank you for creating your channel Dr. Grande! After reading the text materials for my clinical psychology classes, I watch your videos to supplement my required studies. Your work is detailed while keeping on point. Thanks!
You are quite welcome :)
I am a woman with BPD traits dealing with an ASPD person. It’s exhausting. Thank you for explaining. I feel I’ve confused it to be opposites attract. Yin/Yang type stuff.
you say this logically but emotionally your action is to be with factor 2 .
You are contradicting yourself , you know.
Interesting video, especially the part about different types of empathy. It's a little sad to me how clinicians feel about working with certain people who may have something in common with me, but I can see why.. anyway great video 😘
Hi Dr Grande. Would be really interesting if you did a video on Andrea Yates.
I think it would be hard to help this couple because person b’s personality traits are possibly due to person a’s gaslighting which makes understanding of person difficult/impossible and a possible misdiagnosis of person b’s personality traits
J Cat exactly what happened to me . The gaslighting part is so infuriating and the lack of empathy was so devastating
I am daughter of a borderline mother and psychopathic father and i believe that I had maybe the worst luck on every aspect of my life. Dad left PTSD and Depression as scars of all the pain and abuse I had in my household, mom is on border all the time and seems to be too much. Having these two individuals as my caretakers I believe was the worst that could happen to me and I believe it always seems to be the end of me. Lack of empathy from both parts and constant abusive behavior. I don't think this even sums it all, Background of each individual seems to be such a big part of it, I am 16 and when I was 11 I turned myself into a mental health expert in every aspect. I remember my mother always oversharing and getting close to me and then leaving me in short periods of time and when I She told me about my fathers diagnosis I read every single thing about it online and now I can say as I, recommend, can seem to know what his actions will be next since these people are so predictable. My best suggestion in terms of having these type of people as caretakers is as it may sound dumb is to keep yourself in a bubble, keep yourself up to whats going on but not enough to be involved and letting any of these people scar you emotionally. I can say from experience this type of relationship is extremely toxic and will leave endless scars on yourself depending on how much time it lasts, the less the better. My mother was with my dad for 20 years and I can say that I still have nightmares of them getting back together and terror of seeing him on the streets, I can describe their relationship like it was an addiction they would always get back together no matter how hard my mother would try and each time it would be worse. I suffer from PTSD and mayor depression, I don't remember any of my childhood and I have psychopathic traits and borderline traits, I have a suicidal tendency and im not sure of how long I could stand more of it. I live with my mother and I haven't seen my dad en almost 7 months and my little brothers haven't seen him in 2 years almost and well he left my country and im pretty sure he is going to get married. As a fun fact I could add that I can't drink alcohol since when I do all I do is cry about my situation . Mom is always on edge and its quite scary how she works. Also I can't seem to remember dad at all but gets extremely scared when I think I saw him, which oddly happens very often. Anyways was good to vent and well if you are going thru a similar experience im so sorry, you don't deserve this and I know you will get through it. remember to talk to a professional If needed.
Hope you're still alive dude.
This is brilliant. You're a real blessing to the mental health awareness community. God blessed you with great insight !
most home hitting and relevant vid iv seen you done in my case, i see the timeline so well personally.
I love your videos! Ty for taking the time to make them and post them.😊💛
Thank you for doing the comparisons. This video puts things into perspective of how two people will have a very rocky relationship and cannot get along.. breaking it down to polar opposites. Looking forward to more comparisons.
Another excellent video Dr. Grande! I love watching your videos with a cup of green tea
No opinion from me, Dr Grande, other than to thank you for the informative video. I think these couples probably both suffer terribly. In a perfect world everyone should have a psych evaluation before entering a relationship (I’m allowed to dream 😂), but I just think the suffering would ultimately kill any true love between the two, if there was any “true” love to start with. Everyone deserves the best relationships and that means giving 100%-100% both ways. Have a great Sunday ☺️
"A lot of status updates with these relationships" :) Love your sense of humor, Dr. Grande!
Probably the most informative and detailed analysis of this relationship dynamic. This video hits home. The part where you mention the court appointed therapist having to deal with the constant life transitions/updates and police reports on these individuals is spot on! Thank you Dr Grande
I connected with this as well. It can be extremely traumatizing for us. Oh, and embarassing since it's reallllly not our best self when in crisis. Dignity and self worth is devoured sometimes if we have a traumatic experience or invalidating experience with health care professionals.
Thank you for this video. It was spot on and I feel less alone.
I lived this for 8 years. After we ruined our lives and wore each other out in every regard we could, we parted ways as amicably as we could. Not because we cared about each other, but because we cared about ourselves. He knew that I could be dangerous. I knew that he could be dangerous. Neither of us could afford anymore wounds.
Very interesting video, congrats on all the new subscribers. Keep up the good work you're my favorite channel in this area
Very interesting dynamic. Thanks for addressing it.
Wow, very interesting and thank you for this. This is helpful in understanding myself and a past relationship better. I had some suspicions about the relationship and ex in general, this confirms my suspicions about our magnetism towards one another (I have BPD and the ex shows many - if not all - signs of APD/psychopathy).
I'm continuing to learn, manage myself and becoming more and more self aware (and gaining awareness of others/other personality disorders and mental disturbances) the best way that I can, and I owe some of that to you Dr Grande, so thank you.
Appreciate this video. Very interesting topics covered here. Would love to see more related videos around these issues. Thank you!
Good Lord ! The title says it, ... I know this is going to be another Awesome Grande Vid !
Very interesting video 💮. Thank you Dr Grande .
I cannot imagine trying to treat two people with this combination specially since the psychopath is so low and neuroticism I think it would be almost impossible to engage them or motivate them. I’d love to hear more about successful treatment of a case study with this particular combination.
Another great video, thank you. I wonder if you would think about a video about kindness and empathy. Why it is important, why a lack of it is a problem, and whether it is possible for people with personality disorders to truly learn empathy and the value of kindness.
That sounds a lot like the relationship my bf from hs stayed in for 20+ years. Last I heard she was out of it, but going back has always been her pattern. I knew her when we were teens through our early 30’s. I won’t go near the 43 year old monster she is now.
She and her husband have put everyone that was ever close to them through literal hell. They’d have a violent fight. She’d call police, move in with her parents, get lots of attention for whatever bruise he put on her, secretly be making up with him, she’d steal, she’d lie to our faces about what was going on to manipulate sympathy or get more resources. Once she’d worn out her welcome and was starting to get questioned she’d move back in with him. Over the years of this happening at least once a year, sometimes twice, everyone involved started to see her more clearly as an instigating troublemaker who is herself very violent and abusive. All sympathy and resources have dried up. Nobody gives a 💩 except her mom who will still occasionally try to guilt siblings into rescuing her from self inflicted financial crises. Nobody wants to help this asshole anymore which causes her mom to become very angry and attempt to shame siblings for being “heartless”.
She is exhausting and repulsive. I can’t tolerate another convo with her where I end up listening to how big a victim she is and how everyone does her wrong when I know how much and how many good people have invested time and resources trying to help her only to be stolen from and then smeared by her. I have a very good idea why therapists don’t like seeing these couples.
Awesome video! Maybe you could do a similar video on people with dependent personality disorder being in a relationship with a narcissist.
Such an intriguing topic! very interesting to explore the commonalities of these couples. Existing in such an adrenaline fueled relationship must be exhausting .
I have BPD! Best thing I ever did was CBT!
Helps w MANY different problems!!! The tools I learned I can use in every situation!!!
🇨🇦👍🏼
When two people could not be more worse for each other! OMG!
Facts lol they fit better with a sociopath or a narc primary psycopaths literally will ruin their life and the neediness and need of emotional support of a bpd will turn the psychopath off which makes it harder for the psychopath to develop an attachment to her. only chance is if the primary psycopath develop an attachment to her which is their version of loving someone other than that poor bpd
Thank you for this informative video ! Can you please add more videos regarding your clinical experiences with such couples ?
This will be the normative relationship in 20 years.
Sadly seems like it :/
Borderpathy
This made me feel a lot better about my job
Very well explained. Thx.
Wow don’t know the English expression.. but you nailed it doc.. you described my (borderline) with my husband (antisocial personality disorder) exactly..
Dr. Grande, this was such a good video!!! Thank you!!! PS Hearing the word "Delaware" makes me drool for some Grotto's 🍕 🍕 🍕
How about a video on other UA-camrs and popular individuals commonly featured on UA-cam covering mental health (e.g. Kati Morton, Jordan Peterson, Sam Vaknin)? Maybe sometime in the near future you could give us a rundown on the good (informed and holds merit), mediocre (to be taken with a grain of salt) and the bad (to be disregarded and avoided). I have found your channel to be particularly useful. You make a lot of great distinctions.
Very interesting thank you for sharing. I am a borderline. Was diagnosed in 1996 and when my doctor told me I ran out and got the book I hate you don't leave me and oh my gosh that's fit so well LOL I matched up to all the different 9 criteria. I had tumultuous relationships addiction problems and all kinds of things up until 2008 when I started going to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous and working the steps. I got into a relationship with someone in 2010 and it was violent I also pulled out of the program at the time and they have been in prison since. That scared the heck out of me and I had PTSD for quite some time afterward. And I have been single since up until a month ago. I haven't gone through all of my steps I haven't made amends yet but I have been mostly working the program either switching sponsor or having little relapses here and there. In 2011, being an opiate addict I got on Subutex and that medication has calmed me down so much it's insane. I have been on it since. because I was also diagnosed with bipolar, I was put on Paxil and Lamictal for many years. I ended up ending my antidepressant and Lamictal in 2012 and have not been on psychotropics since. Since I've had a relationship with God and working the steps consistently and not in a relationship I've been doing really really good I've been able to hold a job none of the 9 criteria have caused me any problems. And I've been single for 10 years I dated someone for a month but we didn't have sex and then there were two times that I ended up having sex like a one-night stand but it was around the death of my mom and then the death of my dad which was really odd. One of them was with a guy in a very popular band LOL which caused a relapse that night on alcohol cuz I felt bad about myself for doing it. but then he gave me his phone number and it was an ego I mean they have number one singles in several countries so that didn't work out because I found out he was married. This was in 2015. I haven't seen him only the time they came through and played a concert here. Anyways now I'm in a relationship and I've been with him for a month. The only problems I have are jealousy and fear of him finding other women attractive and in my past relationships none of them have been sober all of them we took each other hostage and isolated together with no jobs or friends or anything it was safer that way for the both of us it seemed but now I'm trying to have a relationship with someone who is healthy but he got me out quickly and I tried to keep it slow but my body was all for it because I haven't been with anyone and we went on a trip together as friends and ended up together on that trip. My sponsor says that I could bond with a tree with how much info or how much time I spend with someone LOL this guy kind of seems like antisocial but he also doesn't fit that he also seems like a genuine person falling in love with me. He is alcoholic too and has a year sober and I have 15 months sober. Because of the steps haven't had any anger outbursts I have a lot of self-worth and a group of sobriety sister and sponsor who I see every night at meetings and feel loved and worthy I feel wanted needed and loved there because I do service work, I do my step work, and I Fellowship. The problem I have though is that he's very charming and kind of flirtatious and if I'm in the mindset that I can have any guy I want I don't worry about his attitude and his flirtation but he's the one that wanted to take the relationship really fast and because I've been single for 10 years I went ahead and went along with it and we've gone on trips like five trips since we got together a month ago. He's very honest and open with me and I with him also. The problem is is that he wants to be with me constantly 24/7 and I guess if he didn't feel that way I would not like it I kind of like it but I don't want him hurting and I want a healthy relationship but where I get worried is that I don't want to play games like I did in the past if I was with a guy and he made me jealous of another woman and threatens that abandonment fear I would do the same to him and cause him to feel jealous or bitterness or suspicious. With this one month relationship I have broken It Off twice because of two different reasons. The first one was that he wanted to be with me all the time and I started to see a possibility that he's going to my meetings and I'll never get away from him and that he will take over my life at the meeting and there's a possibility he could be manipulative and hurt me and I won't have my friends and loved ones if we split up because they will take sides. I don't know if he would do that or not he seems real distant like he doesn't make friends easily because he's really shy but I kind of want to help him but I don't want it back firing on me either and he's new to that meeting. The second time I broke up was when I felt that he was flirting with the women behind the counter at the coffee shop. Ikea positioned himself to sit and watch them and it was very Charming to them. And he's very controlling and manipulative and part of me likes that a lot but it also concerns me. I like it because I have been adulting a lot with my house that I need to take care of and my job and I miss my parents and I miss being taken care of. But the same time he's just getting well he doesn't have a job, although he is going to finish some schooling to be a mechanic next month is what he says he hasn't been stable in his past either and I don't know what his diagnosis would be. My sponsor doesn't know him but from the things that I've told her which is only my perception and that perception is only that way sometimes is that some men will try to love bomb you and then devalue you and the whole motive is to get you addicted to them and that they do it with all kinds of women. I cannot tell because I don't know him that well and we've taken a relationship so fast if this is a good relationship or not or every time I want to take it slow he doesn't want that he wants to be together but he's also living in a Sober house with other men and my property and my lifestyle may look attractive to him because I have things that are valuable and a stable home and I don't want to be used. Anyways I'm writing to let you know that it's been amazing I haven't relapsed I'm also on medication that I have taken consistently since 2011 that calms me down and keeps me stable even though it's a medication that isn't necessarily made for that but my doctor has kept me on it because of my back pain because back in the 90s when they put me on lithium and it killed my thyroid and I gained a hundred pounds in 6 months and wasn't able to lose that until 2013 when I had the gastric bypass so that I would lose the weight and not have back issues and anyways I know that I deserve better than what this guy has to offer but at the same time I'm starting to feel love for him and I'm confused about what to do. Maybe this is just a diversion from the steps because I'm on my 9th step again. The steps have been the number one most amazing thing in my life that has changed me! I don't think people really give the credit to the steps because it's free but they will change you more than anything else. Now I just need to learn how to have a healthy relationship
Imagine a psychopath/borderline counselor treating borderlines. A living hell.
Thank you so much for this video.
Grazie Dr.Grande...very interesting...I understand more🙏🤗💛
Hi Dr. Grande!
Wow this video was very insightful and makes absolute sense. Makes me think I might have bpd based upon the relationships I have found myself in, sadly. Is there anyway to avoid such relationships altogether i.e. not be attracted to someone with APD like traits? Also would someone with BPD be better of with someone with a similar condition? And last question in your personal opinion why do these toxic couples attract eachother in the first place, do they balance out the traits they both seem to lack, APD and BPD?
Thank you for the great videos, as always!
Hi Todd. God I got a headache today. You aright mate. Keep up the good vids man 👍
Seeing numerous examples of these types of relationships over the years has helped me to be happy being single!
Years ago there was a couple in the apartment below me that would fight on a regular basis to the point where the women would scream in horror. The police had to be called several times before she broke up with the guy. Sadly she had a child who was exposed to the mess. This video reminded me of that mess. It's unfortunate their neither party in this toxic dance ever seeks therapy for their ongoing issues.
You never know many years have passed. Maybe she went to therapy got diagnosed did the work & either remarried someone more stable. Or marrying someone more stable afforded her the finances & awareness that she needed to seek treatment. People grow & change. But often the child is set up to fail & they break the pattern or spend the rest of their life deprogramming what they saw & learned love to be. These cases are different yet so so similar. That’s why I love channels like these that help people become aware of why they may be struggling or someone they love. It is sad because imagine if you remember them what the child remembers. There needs to be foundations dedicated to learning the effects & helping children of addiction & or disordered parents. There is not enough help for these kids who stay kids as adults because they never had the tools or example of what healthy love is. That’s sadly is what your neighbors saw growing up too. One programmed message is the more you put up with from someone the more you love them. Yuck puke spare me! This couldn’t be farther from the truth but sadly people that live in choas believe withstanding the chaos is a sign of love. When it’s just another self destructive broken tool they carry around from their parents & their parents parents. Who knows maybe that child is a subscriber to this Chanel. God can bring people up to speed & truth no matter how bad they had it. It’s all a choice to reject the lies & seek the knowledge to stop surviving & start thriving. I said a prayer for that adult child where ever they are when I read your comment. How horrible to have the job to overcome all that. Recovery is long but very possible.
Fascinating and illuminating.
Very interesting, Dr. Grande. The dynamics of my marriage is quite similar. The difference is that I have ASD, not psychopathy (as far as I know). It would be great if you talk more about ASD. Thank you.
😱🥺 This was definitely my experience 😔 farout. Wish I knew this all sooner.
There's some overlap in bpd and autism, particularly regarding empathy, and I've known several people to be misdiagnosed initially. Can you talk about the similarities, differences, and overlap in these two symptom profiles?
Not quite. People with autism have low affective empathy but high cognitive empathy and BPD is reversed
Could you do a video on where people with secondary psychopathic traits end up later in life? Especially ones that don’t care about performance in school and are against working a job? Thanks so much
Oh that'will be s a very interesting video, I have seen couples like that, where a instabile women is with at the first glance a very "charismatic" man, but later he bragged about his criminal past, and the most weird thing about his past relationships in front of his current girlfriend, and they are still together.
It seems like Dr. Grande describing episodes after episodes of ID Channel stories. Whew!! I bet this shit is emotionally draining to the family esp the children involved.
I am diagnosed with NPD well ASPD too but I don’t believe that diagnosis. I believe I had a 5 year relationship with someone with BPD we split up and got back together atleast 5-6 times I lost count.
It was incredibly frustrating we were never on the same page with anything but the biggest issue was she had kids and wanted me to move in and take on the husband role and I was hesitant to that, she sensed this a freaked out and thought I just didn’t give a crap about her, and round and round we went. No physical violence but we did seem to always be chippy with each other.
Please tell this to the family courts ❤️
This seems like an interesting topic.
"...a little more complex." Just say it..."a freaking nightmare."
I'm almost 100% sure I could be diagnosed as a narcissist. Only thing that doesn't line up is the empathy. I am literally able to feel the emotions of others including animals. I do like to be in control of how or if I let others effect me. I call it parasympathetic vibration. I like it to playing music. If a vibration of sound is a C I can easily match that and play a C and coresinate. I have, however over the years tuned my ability to be able to vibrate at my own energy and play to my own drum and completely ignore others vibrations....
I run an animal rescue and actually being a narcissist that can Co-resonate or but up strong boundaries and disassociate actually are all helpful for my occupation
Thanks for the information! Do you ever get couples who are both psychopathic?
My ex is a factor 2 psychopath(sociopath), and his wife is borderline. It’s a terrible situation for all of them, especially their kids. I feel so badly for her as well. He’s enough to make someone who doesn’t have a PD lose their mind.
How is it a terrible situation for the sociopath? Because they have power over the borderline amd are generally callous, lack empathy amd qre manipulative. So in a way they created this dynamic
all the diff disorders you discuss make my head hurt ;-)
Hi dr Grande, how do you get to know about your clients diagnosis in these clinical examples? Do they tell you they are bpd and npd? I ask because npd and also bpd are typically unaware of their illness especially npd. Thanks a lot!
A match made in hell which occurs far too often...thanks so much
A match made, in almost all cases, within the strict borders of the borderlines' brain (maybe it's OK to call that "in hell"...). How many of those who are accused of "psychopathy" or "narcissism" by the borderline partner / ex really have those diagnoses, and how many are only labeled so only with the purpose on the former's part of washing their own image in friends & family's eyes, and hiding their own relationship disasters and the stink of their trail of corpses?
@@manuelmanzanero5057 That was ignorant on your part. Both partners get a psych eval. Did you pay attention to this video at all?
I think I have avpd with bpd sprinkles, and my former spouse of 5 years has ocpd with aspd sprinkles. There really was too much anger, though I always held out hope that we could get therapy and get better....
Money is often a significant contributor to these incompatible relationships getting out of hand - I'm thinking of examples such as Jesse James and Sandra Bullock that might have turn horribly disastrous had they not been independently wealthy.
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it!...
Would you consider doing an in-depth video about patient/client confidentiality? Or could you direct me to a good resource?
I have a video on confidentiality that will be released in a few days -
Again an excellent explanation. 🎯I would really be intrested to hear is there a genetic link between antisocial and secondary psychopathic father and borderline daughter? ☺️
That’s my story!
I have bpd and had this relationship so I get yah. Only relationship I never been bored but Also scared to death.
Just the video I needed, I'm a subclinical psychopath and my ex has Borderline Personality Disorder. A lot of what was brought up was relevant to my relationship with her.
@@JAYMOAP She kept wanting me around but I couldn't deal with her lack of self-awareness and denial. I'm glad that I moved on from her. It's not the best pairing.
@@JAYMOAP I know that I deserve better than her. That's what I know.
IlluminatusX Would love to know more! My husband(APD)and I(BPD) have been together for 7 years now and we definitely have communication problems. It really hurts when you tell someone "Hey when you do *BLANK* it hurts my feelings." Then have him blame his behavior me.
I need know how to communicate my feelings so that he can understand, in a manner that prevents we from him feeling attacked .
Although I am not a psychopath, I have scored fairly high in dark triad traits, and have had some relationships with women that are fair to say fall either heavily into Cluster-B or are straight up BPD. I'll weight in as directly as I can: I am not really looking to be understood or for partnership in a relationship - that's a pointless pursuit as I don't find women generally trustworthy. Girls with BPD are usually very slutty and for the first few months of a relationship will put up and do anything for you, which is very, very satisfying. On my first experience I wondered why was she so incapable of reasoning basic emotions without throwing a tantrum, but in my current relationship I do not care to understand anymore. She is subservient, fairly agreeable most of the times, very creative, and has a fair amount of satisfying sex, which is really the selling point. Once you learn how to deal with her child-like personality (or lack thereof) things become easier.
I have to say though, in this match, the BPDs get the score: although I feel for most of the relationship that I'm the one "using" them, once their period of devaluing begins, it is CRUSHING to the ego: the person who you thought you had under your thumb now basically spits on your face , and basically out of nowhere. If this comment made me seem like some uncaring badass, I will say here and then that most of my relationships with BPDs ended badly for me.
That’s like me but with friendships.
Great comment! I feel you on this. (Pun intended) idk I just love girls like this but your right, once the switch happens. Got to cut them off. I plan it months ahead and lead the relationship into a huge failure (that's never my fault) and can split while being a victim or taking the high road and leaving the other looking very poorly amongst their peers. (Doesn't always work. If it doesn't it gets fun. (Or bad depending how u see it))
What child like behavior do borderlines exhibit, if you can pinpoint specific instances from your personal experiences with them.
Do you ever get back with your borderline exes?
Lol it's good to see that the manipulative amd cunning psychopath gets hurt just as much as the BPD
swear to god this describes my last relationship☠this is why im staying single for a very long time.
Me too girl! 💕
I am BPD woman with NPD husband. My idealisation of him lasted 12 years
My sister is in this type of relationship, and they cops practically know her and her boyfriend on a first name basis. Now she's pregnant, and I'm extremely worried for the baby. Not only do they both into hard drugs, but he is extremely violent. He threatened to beat up her friends elderly mother. There's no reasoning with her because she is convinced that this is what true love is like.
Is this a more extreme version of what Ross Rosenberg calls the human magnet syndrome? Or the same thing. I got drawn in to one of these toxic relationships when I was younger. He controlled me so absolutely. It was so hard to get away.
I have bipolar one and bpd, and my partner has mental health struggles. It can become toxic FAST. S O important to have self awareness and boundaries for me. Really connected with your words 💙👏
this was literally one of my last relationships. i have a BPD diagnosis and I strongly believe my ex had actual ASPD (or psychopathy) traits but not 100 percent sure.
narcisist for sure, factor 1 psyc would not be so obvious or use violence
I suspect this dynamic is also present in a lot of those cases where some women start up relationships with serial killers in jail.
Your brilliant
Great topic psychopathy a whole plethora of goodness. Lol
Has there ever been any research on figuring out how much the psychopathy triggers and brings about BPD (making a vulnerable woman finally fit the criteria for bpd when she didn’t before this relationship)?
Would you do a video on having a family member (adult sibling) with strong signs of BPD, who sees a therapist, but the BPD is being overlooked. What to do?
How does a therapist overlook strong signs of BPD? Isn't it glaringly obvious?
Dr. Grande I think you would agree with me when saying that clinicians trying to work as clinicians who are employed during divorce proceedings compulsory family mental health treatment plans could in some cases without enough care and prayer too turn out to be just as much of a problematic gnat seeking and then dramatic sensational media sometimes fiasco like during other situations of course when the policy in the area they are working in is to arbitrary only ever institutionalising anyone who has chronic suicidality and most of all problematic when one person in the mix on either or both sides of that equation is practising psychopaty of some form or another? Add in prescriptions continuting to be prescribed which alter brain chemistry into that mix without any proper clinical supervision of the patient being prescribed it who is still taking it as needed and then if the person taking it has a personality disorder for real instead of imagined through alll of the painting bad being done there then it would be like sending children and policemen too into a kind of O.K. corall situation often leading to another generation later having to deal with hormonal axis problems and other things all over again. In Nevada wasn't both scenarios at one time happening a lot near one large brownfield area in that state for awhile?
You have verbalized my relationship with my ex-husband. I, with the BPD, am wondering if there are degrees of my illness? Like slight to extreme. Listening to this video makes me sad. I don’t want this illness.
What is your school of influence, Dr. Grande? (EDIT) I mean the school of psychology. Thank you, Doctor.
Christ. That's the ultimate combo!
I have BPD, and just left a 3 1/2 year relationship with a (vulnerable sub type) malignant narcissist. It was an extremely hot & cold and very volatile relationship. You are on point about the sex, and I have to admit, the sex was mind-blowing good… It was a very abusive relationship… One time, when I was feeling very depressed, he split me black harshly upon the given “opportunity” in my vulnerability, and texted me, “I HOPE YOU KILL YOURSELF!!!” Was pretty awful. He also used my fear of abandonment as a tool of manipulation & control. For a long time, I thought he was suffering undiagnosed severe BPD. But a friend of mine who’s an NPD psych student THANKFULLY told me me the truth behind what’s was going on, and I finally had the strength to permanently end it ✨🙏🏼
How is he a vulnerable malignant narcissist? I thought malignant narcissist are just pure evil and never vulnerable? How did the vulnerable sub type manifest itself in your relationship?
I was also involved with a malignant narcissist, a year later he is still trying to hurt me...he was extremely sadistic and cruel.
@@komatsu8169 “vulnerable” as opposed to grandiose. Vulnerable refers to “vulnerable to the object”. (The object is originally the mother figure, then an SO). A few of the main stark differences between vulnerable and grandiose narcissists: vulnerable narcissists are *highly neurotic, and have a high capacity for depression and anxiety* whereas a grandiose narcissist has low neuroticism and low capacity for depression and anxiety. A vulnerable narcissist often has a fear of abandonment component, unlike a grandiose. A vulnerable narcissist still fits the qualifications of NPD. A vulnerable malignant narcissist also qualifies for ASPD or at least ASPD traits. They fit the *dark triad* personality. They are sadistic, violent, and extremely emotionally abusive.
@@amandastein6247 ohh I see so how does the abandonment/vulnerability play out with him being so sadistic and cruel. If you can pinpoint the specific instances.
@@amandastein6247 yeah my ex is definitely malignant.. extremely vindictive and cruel.
@@komatsu8169 yes, so for example, due to my borderline personality disorder, I have a fear of abandonment myself - and I am on the extreme end. When triggered, it causes suicidal thoughts and I also become very physically ill. My ex *would use my fear of abandonment as a weapon*. When his NPD would be triggered, even slightly (for example a minor disagreement) he would become extremely cruel and verbally abusive; that in turn would lead to a discard such as this: “I’m f’ing done with you, you’re a f’ing disaster and I hope you kill yourself you stupid bitch!!” This could stem from the most minor of issues. During our relationship his discarded me 17 times. You might wonder why someone w a fear of abandonment would discard someone. He used my FOA as a means to control me, manipulate me, and to punish me. He would always come back a couple weeks later, texting me…. Ready for another round of idealization, devaluation, discard..
vulnerable narcissists have a severe attachment disorder like any narcissist, but vulnerable narcissists are vulnerable to the object (vulnerable to praise and criticism, abandonment, etc) unlike a typical grandiose. Grandiose narcissists are not neurotic like that over the object.
My husband and I have been married for 14 years and we've had the police involved in our relationship exactly once. It blows my mind that there are people who consider it normal.
Once is too many…..
@@BeckBeckGo How long have you been married? Also, your spouse and you are both perfect, yes?
UGH. Just got out of a relationship with a sociopath. WOWWWWW. HAHA. Yes I have lowered empathy. But I still have empathy. And no thank you to the lies, cheating, STDs, stealing, just no.
I feel so NORMAL after watching your videos. Thank you! 💐🤪
Really special one?
Keeko haha. Yes! Normal is the new special 💐🤗