It's actually more prone to tearing due to low tensile strength but it's the most durable after it's been lasted. Per Nick Horween on Ashland's podcast
Awesome to see the factory 0:40 I love my Carminas! I have 5 pairs, one of them in shell, a PTB and it’s one of my favs. Shell is incredible for its shine, it’s deep complex color, and the lack of creasing, and low low maintenance. Thanks! (That long wing in emerald shell 1:46 😍)
In my experience the durability of shell cordovan is a bit overstated. Shell will scuff, scratch and split if treated poorly. Just look at used shell shoes on eBay. It is true that you can recover from some rather bad looking abrasions with shell but it is not bulletproof. The Achilles heel with a lot of shell is water. Uncoated shell that is exposed to a significant amount of water, say in a storm, will develop water spots that are very hard to remove. The material's pores will swell creating raised spots that can take days to weeks to return to normal if at all. I generally don't get my cordovan shoes wet for that reason. I see this a lot with AE shoes as they don't coat their shell. Alden doesn't seem to have this issue at least when new. I think this is due to the coating Alden applies to their shell.
It seems like the best approach to shell cordovan is to treat them like normal dress shoes with common sense - i.e. don't wear them in a storm, try not to scuff them etc
IMO Aldens coated shell looks fake. Another thing is that shell indeed splits realtively easy with eyelets and broguing areas affected more frequently.
What do you mean by coat the shell? I have Alden and AE Cordovan, they are very similar, bipoth shine up nicely with some pure polish conditioner, both get dull if not brushed. The cracked shell I see on eBay is on very old pairs. I’ve never had a problem keeping shell from cracking. And scuffs are removed with about 10 seconds of brushing, unlike calf or veg tanned. Shell is really, really resilient. It just takes a small amount of attention.
Appreciated the interview, just have one thing to say on the bit around waterproofing. Waterproofing is useful in a work boot context. In a dress shoe context (which is often how cordovan is found), it's not really relevant to ask about the waterproofing nature of the shoe. Sure, a Goodyear welt can, in theory, be water resistant, but wearing a Goodyear welted derby calf leather shoe in the rain makes no sense. Even when cordovan is found in boots, it's actually one of the least waterproof leathers because of how it shows water spots when it gets wet. There's a tipping point where luxury comes at the expense of function, and I feel like cordovan is a bit beyond that point, there's nothing really inherent about cordovan that makes it better than any bovine leather, it's just that people like the way it looks and patinas and that's it.
Hi Nick. Of all the shoes and boots on display in this video my favorite far and away were the whole cut looking chukka boots.Very sleek looking. It kind of looked like the way you were holding and inspecting them you were impressed too. : )
Another great factory video! 😀 Very interesting. Thank you. I wasn’t expecting her English accent… I assumed she would’ve had a Spanish accent. 🏴 🇪🇸
Great to see it . I like Carmina although it is a bit outside my price range at the moment, I just got some cordwainers for my husband and they are really well made.
She keeps referring to it as leather...but it's not and he attempts to establish this point early on...this interview is a little backwards as it relates to interviewee and interviewer
Well done, Nick. Thank you! I picked up a pair of Alden cordovan shoes recently and I'm still trying to sort out the best products used to care for them. There's a hornet's nest of disagreement on which products are best. Some say only Saphir Mirror Gloss because of solvents in Saphir High Gloss, that these solvents break down the cordovan. Others say that's hooey, and you there are a zillion pics online of cordovan covered with High Gloss that look amazing. Any thoughts?
Venetian Leather Balm or Venetian Shoe Cream for conditioning when needed, otherwise water + horsehair brush for cleaning/shine. Since Alden uses Horween shell cordovan, VSC is what they recommend for their leathers. They even use it during production, before they glaze the leather. The horsehair brush will add a really nice shine if that's what you're after. But if you want a higher shine than that, Saphir's Cordovan wax polish or Alden's Fine Paste Wax (both made specifically for shell cordovan) are great options. Honestly, the two you mention would work fine, they won't damage the leather. I don't think High Gloss has any solvents, it's purely made up of natural waxes according to Saphir. The thing about waxing/polishing being bad for leather is when people never strip the wax off the shoes; they build it up over years and either don't condition the leather, or the wax has been built up so much that conditioners can't get past the wax. That's when cracking in shell tends to happen, because it dries from the inside out. As long as you're stripping off the polishes every now and then, and conditioning the leather before reapplying waxes, you'll be good to go.
Think of all the old pairs of shell Florsheim Imperials available on places like ebay that are 30 or 40 years old. How many people do you think used Saphir or VSC in the 1980s to maintain them ? Think how much abuse your shoes and boots get when walking in snow and rain ? Solvents used in cheap products are not going to destroy your cordovan (or leather) shoes and they are much tougher than people give them credit for. It may be slightly better to use the very expensive creams on your shoes but they will be fine with whatever is available . BTW, I've yet to see any scientific evidence that "natural" solvents are better for leather than synthetic solvents and completely synthetic products like vaseline seem to work on skin quite well.
I would only use high end known products like saphir specifically meant for cordovan. I would stay away from solvents, cordovan is not porous like leather so I dont understand why solvents would even be beneficial
I think it is beautiful leather. It does not have a place in my closet. The only time I wear a suit is weddings and funerals. I have some calf skin ropers I keep shined well and those are my dress shoes. The rest of the time, I am in lace up 8" work boots. I do wear New Balance shoes for exercise walking. Those shoes are pretty. For business guys, hell yes.
Since you’re in Spain, see if you can do a video with Andres Sendra. They are a big family with boots making history and also make shoes with unique patinas
Its actually between two layers of epidermis. Technically speaking it would be similar but not the same as top grain leather with full grain removed and the genuine leather underneath also removed. Except its different as it only exists in the rear of the horse. Not found elsewhere on the horse.
@@davidpielykh3996 The "butt", after tanning, is passed through a splitting-machine which removes the grain, or hair side, revealing what is termed the "shell".
@AsAnAtheistFilms I created a google photos link with a couple of shell photos where you can see the follicles. It won't go through here on youtube for some reason
@@davidpielykh3996 sounds like a defect in the splitting of the grain to me. Never seen follicle like pertusions on shell and ive had 5 pairs, 8 horween shells, 3 rocado, and 2 shinki (worst out of the three). In fact on the shink I found remnants of the grain on the shell. Also thickness variety and poorer finishing of the skins.
Other than USA Horween, are there other Shell Cordovan makers? Also, what happens to the horses? They’re not considered food in the USA? Or am I incorrect here?
@@drzaius844 The older I get the more expenses I have and more money I put into savings. Ultimately, splurging on cordovan shoes is just not a priority. I COULD buy multiple pairs right now, if I wanted to be what would be irresponsible in my mind.
Given our dear hosts attire I assume he grew up a bit casual? Having been raised in the traditional formal way, I never would have thought of cordovan as a formal material, and I wonder if our upbringings are the cause of our differing cordovan prejudice.
See more from the Carmina visit: How they make their luxury Chelseas ua-cam.com/video/JsnqE2X2Bus/v-deo.html
It's actually more prone to tearing due to low tensile strength but it's the most durable after it's been lasted. Per Nick Horween on Ashland's podcast
I heard a bootmaker say it's like lasting rice paper, haha - veg tan leather in general is harder to last because it's less stretchy
Awesome to see the factory 0:40 I love my Carminas! I have 5 pairs, one of them in shell, a PTB and it’s one of my favs. Shell is incredible for its shine, it’s deep complex color, and the lack of creasing, and low low maintenance. Thanks! (That long wing in emerald shell 1:46 😍)
In my experience the durability of shell cordovan is a bit overstated. Shell will scuff, scratch and split if treated poorly. Just look at used shell shoes on eBay. It is true that you can recover from some rather bad looking abrasions with shell but it is not bulletproof. The Achilles heel with a lot of shell is water. Uncoated shell that is exposed to a significant amount of water, say in a storm, will develop water spots that are very hard to remove. The material's pores will swell creating raised spots that can take days to weeks to return to normal if at all. I generally don't get my cordovan shoes wet for that reason. I see this a lot with AE shoes as they don't coat their shell. Alden doesn't seem to have this issue at least when new. I think this is due to the coating Alden applies to their shell.
I have may own special process of treating shell
It seems like the best approach to shell cordovan is to treat them like normal dress shoes with common sense - i.e. don't wear them in a storm, try not to scuff them etc
IMO Aldens coated shell looks fake. Another thing is that shell indeed splits realtively easy with eyelets and broguing areas affected more frequently.
What do you mean by coat the shell? I have Alden and AE Cordovan, they are very similar, bipoth shine up nicely with some pure polish conditioner, both get dull if not brushed. The cracked shell I see on eBay is on very old pairs. I’ve never had a problem keeping shell from cracking. And scuffs are removed with about 10 seconds of brushing, unlike calf or veg tanned. Shell is really, really resilient. It just takes a small amount of attention.
@Dr Zaius the coated shell is a thing, there are pelnty of posts on reddit
Appreciated the interview, just have one thing to say on the bit around waterproofing. Waterproofing is useful in a work boot context. In a dress shoe context (which is often how cordovan is found), it's not really relevant to ask about the waterproofing nature of the shoe. Sure, a Goodyear welt can, in theory, be water resistant, but wearing a Goodyear welted derby calf leather shoe in the rain makes no sense. Even when cordovan is found in boots, it's actually one of the least waterproof leathers because of how it shows water spots when it gets wet. There's a tipping point where luxury comes at the expense of function, and I feel like cordovan is a bit beyond that point, there's nothing really inherent about cordovan that makes it better than any bovine leather, it's just that people like the way it looks and patinas and that's it.
Super impressed by all the awesome videos!
Hi Nick. Of all the shoes and boots on display in this video my favorite far and away were the whole cut looking chukka boots.Very sleek looking. It kind of looked like the way you were holding and inspecting them you were impressed too. : )
I just LOVE CARMINA SHOEMAKER!!!
Another great factory video! 😀 Very interesting. Thank you.
I wasn’t expecting her English accent… I assumed she would’ve had a Spanish accent. 🏴 🇪🇸
Great to see it . I like Carmina although it is a bit outside my price range at the moment, I just got some cordwainers for my husband and they are really well made.
WOW! so glad to see Ioana featured here and more of the Carmina factory!
Great video Nick! You kicked butt.
People are really avoiding to say that no wonder how durable cordovan is, it practically looks very much plasticy or like patent leather like. Fact !
Boils down to one's liking and budget really.
She keeps referring to it as leather...but it's not and he attempts to establish this point early on...this interview is a little backwards as it relates to interviewee and interviewer
My first shell boots arrived last week. Sagara Bootmakers built me a pair or Cordmaster monkey boots in black shell. I can’t stop staring at them 😍
Wow those shoes look amazing, especially the green brogues. I’ll check them out.
Those green longwings..... wow
Well done, Nick. Thank you! I picked up a pair of Alden cordovan shoes recently and I'm still trying to sort out the best products used to care for them. There's a hornet's nest of disagreement on which products are best. Some say only Saphir Mirror Gloss because of solvents in Saphir High Gloss, that these solvents break down the cordovan. Others say that's hooey, and you there are a zillion pics online of cordovan covered with High Gloss that look amazing. Any thoughts?
Venetian Leather Balm or Venetian Shoe Cream for conditioning when needed, otherwise water + horsehair brush for cleaning/shine. Since Alden uses Horween shell cordovan, VSC is what they recommend for their leathers. They even use it during production, before they glaze the leather. The horsehair brush will add a really nice shine if that's what you're after. But if you want a higher shine than that, Saphir's Cordovan wax polish or Alden's Fine Paste Wax (both made specifically for shell cordovan) are great options.
Honestly, the two you mention would work fine, they won't damage the leather. I don't think High Gloss has any solvents, it's purely made up of natural waxes according to Saphir. The thing about waxing/polishing being bad for leather is when people never strip the wax off the shoes; they build it up over years and either don't condition the leather, or the wax has been built up so much that conditioners can't get past the wax. That's when cracking in shell tends to happen, because it dries from the inside out. As long as you're stripping off the polishes every now and then, and conditioning the leather before reapplying waxes, you'll be good to go.
Think of all the old pairs of shell Florsheim Imperials available on places like ebay that are 30 or 40 years old. How many people do you think used Saphir or VSC in the 1980s to maintain them ?
Think how much abuse your shoes and boots get when walking in snow and rain ?
Solvents used in cheap products are not going to destroy your cordovan (or leather) shoes and they are much tougher than people give them credit for.
It may be slightly better to use the very expensive creams on your shoes but they will be fine with whatever is available .
BTW, I've yet to see any scientific evidence that "natural" solvents are better for leather than synthetic solvents and completely synthetic products like vaseline seem to work on skin quite well.
I would only use high end known products like saphir specifically meant for cordovan.
I would stay away from solvents, cordovan is not porous like leather so I dont understand why solvents would even be beneficial
Thanks so much for this one Nick. All,of the shoes are gorgeous and I have always coveted those Chelsea boots of yours!
I think it is beautiful leather. It does not have a place in my closet. The only time I wear a suit is weddings and funerals. I have some calf skin ropers I keep shined well and those are my dress shoes. The rest of the time, I am in lace up 8" work boots. I do wear New Balance shoes for exercise walking.
Those shoes are pretty. For business guys, hell yes.
There are shell boots for non-business, wolverine made shell boots in the early 1900s
Ioana Dinu is so cute that all of a sudden I want to interview her too
If I am going to spend a bit more than fine calfskin I am going to get Chromexcel. Cordovan is too much.
Fair. Also I think chromexcel is usually a little cheaper than calfskin, if you're getting NICE calfskin
Since you’re in Spain, see if you can do a video with Andres Sendra. They are a big family with boots making history and also make shoes with unique patinas
Very good video!
Ioana is as cute as a button! ☺️
great interview！
You should hit up Phil over at Ashland Leather again for a comprehensive overview of Shell Cordovan.
While shell is fun I think the real star is horsebutt with shell intact. Quite the amazing material for shoemaking, that
I was there in October. I was looking for the store, and accidentally ended up in a whole different town, Inca! Heading to Palma soon :D
indeed
The particular boot she chose as the more casual, popular style at 6:10 is not showing on their website at all.
Wait a sec, I was just checking the prices and they are accessible.
Great video man! What is price of Shell Cordowan per m2 ?
Cute shoes and presenters. Very informative. I finally learned the basics of Cordovan leather and Carmina.
Delighted you found this David
Care este pretul aproximativ al unei perechi de pantof și unde se găsesc de cumpărat ( magazin ) in România ? multumesc.
It comes the base of a horses tail... that is the taint.
What's the name of the colour of the wholecuts? is it a specific burgundy ?
Color 8
Rona dangerous when you are inspecting the leathers but disappears when you are filming 🤔🤔
They may have been tested pre recording. Its just 2 people plus camera man in the shot. Different from traveling through the factory.
?Ř????ϻ ?
SHELL IS A LEATHER, specifically it's a reversed side of the horse butt leather
Its actually between two layers of epidermis. Technically speaking it would be similar but not the same as top grain leather with full grain removed and the genuine leather underneath also removed. Except its different as it only exists in the rear of the horse. Not found elsewhere on the horse.
@AsAnAtheistFilms sorry, that doesn't make sense. You can clearly see hair follicles on the reverse side of the shell
@@davidpielykh3996 The "butt", after tanning, is passed through a splitting-machine which removes the grain, or hair side, revealing what is termed the "shell".
@AsAnAtheistFilms I created a google photos link with a couple of shell photos where you can see the follicles. It won't go through here on youtube for some reason
@@davidpielykh3996 sounds like a defect in the splitting of the grain to me. Never seen follicle like pertusions on shell and ive had 5 pairs, 8 horween shells, 3 rocado, and 2 shinki (worst out of the three). In fact on the shink I found remnants of the grain on the shell. Also thickness variety and poorer finishing of the skins.
Can you make a video about shinki hikaku?
Oh boy, I'd like to. Once Japan/China are open I'm going to head over and make mucho videos, hopefully I could get into Shinki!
Great video thanks for it
I want some now….
Other than USA Horween, are there other Shell Cordovan makers? Also, what happens to the horses? They’re not considered food in the USA? Or am I incorrect here?
Yes, Japan also supplies shell cordovan. Meermin, Carmina’s little sister uses Japanese shell cordovan.
Horween imports its horse hides/carcasses from Quebec.
Theres also argentinian and italian shell. Rocado in italy, i do not know what argentinas name is.
It’s also really hot and will dry out your feet because the leather doesn’t aerate like calf skin does.
oh good tip
Great video. Very informative. I love my SC shoes and boots, they're like tanks.
What brand ya got, Mr White?
@@Stridewise Allen Edmonds. One pair of SC Strands and Daltons. I find they are much lower maintenance than calf skin.
Great content!
Great video. Do you think that leather will still show patina eventually?
Check out the dude he brought on who had all the Grant Stone and Truman boots. He had videos about getting them to patina
Shell takes a long time to patina, but once it does, it’s amazing. Insane depth of color, often referred to as “glow”
Easy, because they can be!
It is objectively a harder leather to make
Very cheap in Pakistan
Wait are JR soles still being made?
I thought he gonna ask the rep about factory closing
It’s been bought out, and it sounds like they’re gonna keep the same manufacturing techniques and quality. Hopefully at least
Will most likely forever be out of my price range but still, worth the watch. Maybe someday.
You can get some pretty affordable shell from companies like Meermin. Affordable in comparison with higher end makers, anyway.
I used to think that way, but the reality is you will make more money as you get older.
@@drzaius844 The older I get the more expenses I have and more money I put into savings. Ultimately, splurging on cordovan shoes is just not a priority. I COULD buy multiple pairs right now, if I wanted to be what would be irresponsible in my mind.
Ebay
Given our dear hosts attire I assume he grew up a bit casual? Having been raised in the traditional formal way, I never would have thought of cordovan as a formal material, and I wonder if our upbringings are the cause of our differing cordovan prejudice.
Cordovan, if shiny, Is a formal material
@@AMogus-jr6qk That's like saying wingtips are formal shoes.
@@TheRacerRich name a formal leather then
А есть у них рабочии ботинки?
Check out their website. The answer is, kind of, yes and no. You could work in their “work boot” but you probably wouldn’t want to damage them.
Рабочие ботинки из кордована?
@@davidpielykh3996 , из обычной кожи. Я имел ввиду модельный ряд производителя
First
Oh yeah? Then name every boot..
@@had1223 iron ranger, thursday captain, wolverine 1000 mile
Rear side of the horse? So it's butt, we're paying premium prices for some ass. Hmm. Guess I can call my girlfriend a horses ass. Lol.
Actually, Mallorca belongs to Germany 😂
How many days you guys think she have worn anything cordovan?