It's my daily driver, home projects hauler and fun times adventuring vehicle. It's like a swiss army knife vehicle. Love my 4runner. I knew a little about the atrac system. Used it a few times just because, did not need to, but this explanation helps explain the stutter noise it made. It's the ABS.
Yup, it's a natural tendency to let off the throttle when you hear that noise (you should hear how loud it is in an old Land Rover Discovery!); when in truth you should keep a steady throttle and let the traction control do it's thing. The two biggest rookie mistakes that I see are: 1) Too much throttle and potentially breaking stuff with torque before the TC can even engage. (this applies to even non-TC rigs, in fact, your chances of breaking stuff with heavy throttle on old-school lockers is arguably greater (and why most buggies swap out for huge axles). 2) Letting off the throttle too soon before TC can engage. It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it, it works great.
I have a new 2020 4Runner TRD Off Road and just finished a off road driving course.. I'm trying to learn all I can and this taught me that I don't always need my locker.. Thanks!
another thing with A-trac Active Traction Control is I hope most people know how to correctly operate it. You want to be at around 1,100 RPM and no more than 4mph for A-trac to work properly. If let off the gas pedal A-trac wouldn't work. If pushed too hard A-trac wouldn't work either. Best is to hold it at a gentle and constant throttle, the ABS will pulse and grab the brakes.
Yup, if you are designing a rig for 3 or even 4 rated trails, A-trac would be perfect and you can save some $$ on your trim package. If you intend to do more serious work, the locker is a great choice. Also, if you plan on modifying your 4Runner extensively, the SR5 is awesome (or even the limited for the luxury goodies), since you will most likely have a suspension lift and armor you'll want to add which makes buying a TRD pointless since you'll rip off the TRD goodies. You can always add lockers to any trim package, it just costs $$..
Thanks for the great ATrac demo. I have an SR5 4wd (no factory locker) and was thinking about adding an Air locker. Seems like ATrac would be sufficient for the little off-roading I’d do.
Thank you for the explanation. I recently purchased a SR5 Tforce and after having read some negative reviews, I was concerned that my 4x4 was not going to have the abilities I thought it had. After reading about A-TRAC I felt much better about the situation. Your explanation regarding the geometry aspect of a trap, and the difference between basic 4x4 and ATRAC helped me greatly understand not only how to approach a obstacle, but also what to do when I need to correct the system. Combining the options of taking a different route, and or increasing your speed, combined with the ATRAC system should greatly decrease the chances of getting stuck in a similar situation.
It's one of the main reasons I didn't buy a Pro or Off-Road and instead got an SR5 4x4. I have done many trails ranging from intermediate to advanced for over landing and rock crawling and the A-TRAC kept up with others that had locking diff and crawl. That $10K I saved by not getting a Pro or Off-Road model went into Fox suspension, Camburg UCA, Method wheels, Toyot MT tires along with roof rack, step ladder, sliders, low wench front bumper and all LED lightning among more. I show up on the trails and believe me the Pro guys are drooling on my set-up LMAO.
Now check out my Golden Spike vid on why lockers beat ATRAC. But I 100% agree, if you aren't doing 7+ rated trails, lockers are an unnecessary luxury and your money is better spent elsewhere first!
Toyota really limits the colors of the TRD brand. It's kind of annoying. One, maybe two, "flashy" colors (like the orange) which they change out every year; and then black and white. It's really a shame. This particular 4Runner had to be ordered in. Plenty of black ones available on the dealer lots, but the orange was rare.
Only the TRD Pro comes in 1 special color a year and maybe every Toyota dealer around the country gets 1 or 2 a year to sell. I had to wait over a month for the 2018 TRD Off-Road (Metallic gray lol) with no KDS. Its not easy buying them for sure
Make sure to keep steady throttle, many people cut the power right when ATRAC engages. I haven't used it much on my GX470, which should be similar to a 4th Gen, but I've used it quite a bit on my LX470 and it's much better than without it.
@@ForgottenWaypoints I think that was my problem, but I don't think I cut the throttle so much as it needed more throttle than I was giving. Which makes sense because of the braking. Next time out on a muddy road I'll keep this in mind.
What's curious to me is why isn't it always on? It is on my LX and GX, and my rovers all had traction control on by default. Kind of interesting Toyota puts a button for it on the 4Runner and FJ.
excellent video, excellent explanation, congratulations .... I have a Toyota hilux with rear lock and traction control and it really easily passes difficult obstacles ..... saludos desde sur america
Awesome explanation of what A-TRAC is! My wife wants a 4runner now, so I'm trying to learn more about their 4wd systems and models. I've been a Jeep guy my whole life, and now I feel like I'm coming from the dark side to the light. lol. I'm guessing not all models come with the "A-TRAC", so is it possible to install ARB air lockers front and rear on a 5th Gen 4runner? I'm sure mechanically it can be done, but will it interfere with the way their computer monitored offroad systems work?
Yes, you can have ARB lockers "ON" and the A-Trac "ON", no problem. The A-Trac won't do anything. It only pulses the brakes when there is differential speed (slip) between either side of the axle. With the lockers engaged, you will have constant speed regardless of torque output to each wheel and the A-Trac will cause the anti-lock brakes to pulse. That said, I'd still keep it on, because; as you know, it's tough to steer with a front locker. If you disengage the front locker to do some maneuvering and there is slip....the A-Trac will pulse to attempt to give you additional traction. The systems work very well together, IMO.
@@ForgottenWaypoints Good explanation of how all this works Ben. From the old school 4WD systems to this rig, I have to say, it is worth it to buy one if you can afford it. I would not just buy a 4Runner with 4WD for the heck of it. Plenty of those things to choose from for less money. However, this technology is so CHOICE! It is a Land Rover capabilities and then some because with the Toyota having this new tech. in it, you have the pedigree of longevity and reliability. Not to mention of course resale value. Original cost is lower as well. So my personal experience with owning a 2018 TRD SUV has been extremely positive. Keep in mind, it is not meant to compete with daily drivers in terms of gas consumption.(tho personally I find it competitive)Do you homework, find what you plan on doing most with it and buy accordingly. I highly recommend a TRD tho. Just make sure if you can afford it to get the Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System.(KDSS) This makes your on road ride a lot less top heavy feel. And your off road performance a lot more affective and comfortable. :)
What a beautiful video and a GREAT explanation! Maybe you could give youtube video lessons to some of the less talented mortals (no-it-alls) on youtube! Thanks!!
So what A-Trac does is that it applies the brakes to the wheel that is spinning(open diff) which in turn will cause the power to go to the other side where there is more traction. Achieves the same thing as a locker by doing it differently.
Exactly!! However it's not as good as a locker because 1) it requires slipping to work, 2) slipping robs power, 3) applying brakes to moving parts under load can cause failures. BUT! It's cheaper than a locker and it's basically free since you have ABS already, and compared to standard 4wd, it's a game changer!! Check out our Golden Spike vid to see my LX470 on an extreme trail with only ATRAC, vs Jeeps with lockers.
I used to own a 16' TRD PRO 4Runner. Loved it. However I like the front lockers that I have on my ZR2 better. Plus I got me a bed I can throw sh** in when I want. Good work man. Keep them coming. I like quality work. Thumbs up bro.
I'd love to see the ZR2 on the trail. In fact, it's a shame the Hummer Brand went belly up because a second Generation H3 based on the Colorado's suspension/lockers with a shorter wheelbase and a baby Duramax would be sweet.
I would too. However, I live in the southeast (Fl) and we don't get to "rock" like you guys do ( jealous). So I live with the sand and mud, which the ZR2 and the 4Runner both destroy like pros. Keep up the good work man. Peace.
I was actually ruining my 4runner. I dive and fish a lot. So putting the seats down throwing tanks and tackle back there and dragging it out was really ruining the interior plus it was a hassle to load and unload ergo why I actually traded in for the ZR2. It was hard to do bc I really loved that 4Runner. Thanks for asking, hope it helps!
vegas wajeel depends on really what u want to use your vehicle for. I have a lot of dive equipment and offshore fishing tackle so a truck is much more utilitarian for me. Break down your “Needs” VS your “Wants” and go with that option. I think you’ll be more satisfied in the end. Both are great products. Good luck!
Yup, I have no idea why you'd ever want it off. It's on all the time on all my rigs. LX/GX/disco 2. Even Jeep. Although you can turn it off on the jeep by turning on the lockers. Heheh
@@ForgottenWaypoints do systems by the other brands work the same as atrac? or is one system superior to atrac? I only have experience with atrac. thank you
@@personalfunfest , I find land rover's systems to be the best. Sadly their rigs are neutered by 20" rims detrimental to overall performance. In the end though, all ABS based traction systems are incredibly similar it boils down to driver. I'd still give the edge to Rover.
@@ForgottenWaypoints Bonus question: what's the mechanical difference between standard traction control and atrac? doesn't regular traction control brake a slipping wheel too???
If I recall correctly, you can't use ATRAC and the rear factory locker on TRD Offroad/TRD PRO at the same time. I have a TRD Offroad. I assume that using my rear locker is more beneficial when offroading than using ATRAC, but it seems like they both have their uses. Seems like being able to use the rear locker and front-only-ATRAC would be a nice option if they allowed it, since Toyota just will not put a locker in IFS.
You can totally use ATRAC and the rear locker at the same time. But since the locker "locks" the rear wheels so they won't spin, ATRAC can't pulse the rear wheels (if it can ...your locker is broke!!) BUT.....ATRAC will work perfectly on the front wheels, giving you the ultimate off-road performance (rear locker + front ATRAC). This is how my LX470 functions and on my 2022 Tacoma, I keep ATRAC on all the time (you should only need to turn it off in sand or snow), and it works just fine with the Rear locker (front still pulses like it should). Feel free to use ATRAC and rear locker all the time! The only time ATRAC won't work is if your front and rear are locked. Technically the system will be looking for slipping, but it won't slip...the axles can't, they are locked.
Really appreciate the detailed answers. So much so that I subbed. I have a ‘17 LE and am trying to figure out which lift to go with to fit 285 KO2’s while still allowing decent off-road ability. Not sure I’m ready to tear the X-REAS out yet as it is still functional, but it will come out one day. Have been looking hard at the lift leveling kits, but wasn’t sure how well they’d perform off road. Since you’ve had them for some time, what’s been your experience with them off road? Any limitations you’ve come across? Did your toytec kit come with the diff drop and skid drop? Any idea how the Duratracs compare to the KO2’ size-wise? What is the offset of your TRD wheels?
@@beebach4491 , can the 4runner not use Atrac in 4H? My GX470 and LX470 all engage Atrac in 4H and 4L, there are only two systems, stabilitrac which is used on the highway to prevent spins and it cuts the throttle and Atrac which is used off road and is a traction aid.
@@ForgottenWaypoints I have a 2019 OR. The A-TRAC is engaged in 4Lo only, so up to 25 MPH I guess. If the rear diff is locked the A-TRAC will turn off if moving more than 4 mph.
It's really just open differentials, not part time four wheel drive... assuming you've put it into four wheel drive at this point. ATrac just uses the abs and braking systems to simulate locking differentials... as you point out in this cool video.
it's part time 4x4. Lexus GX, 4runner limited, Landcruiser have actual center differentials for full time 4x4... and the center diff can also be locked... the only 4runner with a center differential is the limited... all others are 2wd...or 4x4 on slippery surfaces only
@@personalfunfest Yes, most 4runners are part time 4wheel drive. However, my point was, once in 4x4 it's not functioning in "part time" anymore. It's 4x4 with open diffs... until you lock one... or use ATrac. The "part time" nature of the the 4runner 4x4 systems means they can run in 2x4 (rear drive) until you need 4x4. Once you put it in 4x4 it locks the transfer case (sometimes also called a center differential) and then it functions the same as the full time system you're referencing. Full time 4x4 don't have a full time locked center diff. (It can of course be locked.) A full time system doesn't have anything to do with having a locking center diff really. It could be full time 4x4 without a lockable center diff... though that's usually called AWD. Either way, what ATrac does in all cases is basically the same, as ATrac doesn't do anything with a center differential, locked or not. The 4runner in this video also has a lockable rear diff but until it's locked it functions as an open diff and ATrac simulates locking both front and rear "axels" by using the brakes. The other vehicles you mention have lockable center diffs (or more accurately lockable transfer cases) as you point out. They are full time 4x4 which again doesn't really have anything to do with the lockable nature of their center diff. It just mean power is always going to both "axels" all the time. The 4runner in 4x2 saves on gas and wear. You only put it in 4x4 when needed.
Very nice. There isn't a standard size...is there? Anyway, I had sold Toyotas for a number of years. The explanation for fewer locking diffs is this. There are fewer parts to break. A locking diff is an additional part(s) of the drivetrain. With Toyota's ATRAC, all you need is limited slip(look it up if you don't understand it)which already exists on the product, , and the brains(software and electronics). The only software and electronics that Toyota uses is the ABS software, with a little modification. The ABS system simply fools the limited slip that both tires have grip and they should both get power. Again if this is confusing, look up limited slip. The reason to not have locked diffs is that it causes accelerated wear on expensive drive train parts.
On a full-time 4wd vehicle with center diff-lock unlocked, torque is equal across 4-wheels but wheelspin differs. This means the wheel with the most slip gets the most wheel speed (front or rear). IE: the one free-spinning (you are stuck). With the center diff lock unlocked, the A-Trac will pulse across all 4 wheels as they spin freely, attempting to transfer torque to a wheel that can put down more torque. This "kind of" works, but robs you of important momentum and control as you are fighting the ABS. This is why locking a center differential is so important to an Atrac equipped rig, as it forces TWO (not one) wheels (front and back) to spin at the same speed regardless of torque output, and now ATRAC only has to pulse side-to-side instead of across all 4 wheels. It's also why Land Rover finally admitted they made a mistake with the Disco 2 and has offered a locking center diff in the discovery from 2004 on. I made an indepth video on CDL locked and unlocked here (but we didn't incorporate ATRAC) ua-cam.com/video/eEQeIK8_ru4/v-deo.html
@@woolengrappler , it's the way a differential works. If you raise a wheel with an open differential, that wheel spins and the one on the ground stops spinning. Since the differential has to supply equal torque, and the lowest amount of torque it can supply is 0 (the tire in the air), the one on the ground won't spin. Now, if the front was locked, the tires have to spin at equal rates, but the torque put to the terrain is unequal. In that scenario, if you were moving 1mph, the front wheel in the air would be spinning 1mph and supplying 0 torque, but the one on the ground would be moving 1mph and supplying all of the torque. So in a full-time 4wd system with ALL open differentials, as soon as ONE wheel is lifted the torque supplied to the system is 0 (tire in the air) and it gets all the spinning. Now ATRAC will buzz that wheel, stopping it, and moving torque to the next wheel that can supply the least amount of torque. On pavement, this is just fine since a high traction surface is available at 1 of the 4 wheels nearly all the time. Even in bad weather. Off road, like sand/mud, off camber with a tire in the air, this is NOT the case, and your ATRAC will buzz all the time trying to get power to the terrain. If you lock JUST the center differential, then one wheel front and rear MUST spin the same rate, weather it's in the air or not, and then ATRAC only needs to pulse side-to-side greatly limiting the work it needs to do. Further locking the rear and ATRAC only pulses between the front wheels as they raise off the ground and/or slip. Once you are triple locked, ATRAC can't function at all, because your front/rear tires will NEVER slip (unless the gears are stripped) and all wheels move at the same speed. This is why fully-locked rigs have such a performance advantage in technical terrain (although a locked front makes it hard to steer, which is why a selectable locker up front is recommended). Whew....sorry that was so long.
@woolengrappler, think of it this way: Across a differential torque applied has to be zero (speeds of the opposite wheels can be different). Across a locker, wheels speeds are the same (measured torque to the terrain at each wheel can be different). That is the primary difference between a locker and a differential. A differential prevents scuffing of tires during turns and driveline binding on high-traction surfaces, a locker guarantees wheel movement, regardless of terrain at the expense of handling and increase stress on the system. Both tools are useful for different driving scenarios, which is why selectable lockers Front, rear, and center are so ideal.
@@ForgottenWaypoints I heard some models actually wouldn't let you engage diff lock and a-trac at same time. Maybe I guess it varies manufacturers to manufacturers, and different models to models.
On some vehicles when you engage a locker it disables the highway version of Traction Control (the little yellow light with car and swervy icon), but your off-road traction control remains enabled.
I don't really like ATRAC in 4H, except to prevent skid on washboard, it's still best paired with 4L on obstacles. It really helps when you don't have a locker, so the 4Runner with locker in the rear and ATRAC up front is better than my GX460 which is just ATRAC.
@@ForgottenWaypoints thanks. Ive never used atrac on mine. Couldn't figure out what it did. Really appreciate your active assistance on your great videos.
For sure! In this scenario, a new line would have required more speed and I’d rather crawl than gun it. What he should have done was had atrac on all the time, but his year of 4Runner doesn’t do that. My Tacoma switch is in all the time, I guess I’d turn it off for sand, but never seen a need. Traction control is great!
4-Lo. Terrain select fine-tunes how aggressively traction control responds. For example, in 'rock mode', it's very aggressive. In mud or sand, not so much, as aggressive TC will reduce wheel speed too much.
@@ForgottenWaypoints thanks brother, every since Toyota announced these would have an updated infotainment for the 2020 model year I'm really looking closely at these. And in that army green!
Have the 285s been working alright with your TRD Rims? I know they recommend at least a 7.5” tire (but I also know many people still do it). What PSI were they for Hell’s Revenge?
Glenn Schmidt, the tires have been working well for me. But you are correct, the recommended rim width for these tires is 7.5-9" and the TRD rim is 7" wide. I have been running this size for over a year and I love them. I will be honest though, I did have a bead issue on one tire. That was after a trip to Moab and after wheeling while aired down. I don't know if I can blame the bead on the rim size or if it was just from being aired down. I suspect it was because I was aired down and I flexed the sidewall just right to get a slow leak. The leak was slow enough that I didn't even get a low pressure light until a few days after I aired back up. To fix it, the tire shop had to break the bead and reseat it. I have aired down multiple times before and after that trip with no other issues. But back to your original question, I personally am comfortable with these tires on these rims, but I can't speak for everyone. I will buy them again. As a side note, this tire size requires trimming up front. I have a 2" lift, and I still had rub if I was turning and going over a small bump. I trimmed the front bumper and removed the front mud flaps. Some sources say you might have to do a body mount chop to fit this size, but I did not. When I have the wheel turned to full lock and flexing the tire up, I have about 1mm of space between the tire and the body mount. For me, removing the mudflap was sufficient. On this trip to Hell's Revenge I was aired down to roughly 20 psi, if memory serves. I have gone lower, but with these tires I feel like I get too close to the rim when I'm on a rock. My Jeep Cherokee has the 33" 12.50 on a 15" rim, and I'll run those at 12 psi off road without an issue. I'm running the Duratracs on both the 4Runner and the Cherokee, and the load rating is D on the 4Runner and C on the Cherokee. Even with the stiffer side wall, I can't air down as much in the 4Runner. I assume this is because the rims are 17" vs 15". I hope this answers your question!
hineas I appreciate your detailed response! On the forums it seems like some ppl have to do some minor cutting and some don’t. I suppose every vehicle is unique so I’d just have to wait and see and go from there. Glad to know the 285s will work on the TRD rims tho. I’ll be picking my ‘18 ORP up in two weeks and want to have the wheels ready to throw on. I suppose I’ll have to get the lift as well. I’m eyeing the stage 2 or 3 Icon w billet UCAs, I think that should do it. Thanks again for all the great info, and I love your Pro!
Thanks! We love the Pro as well. I read the same thing, some vehicles require trimming and some don't. I'm personally eyeing the Icon lift as well, but I just have too many darn things to spend my money on right now. I guess I'll survive with the spacer lift I currently have until next upgrade.
@@mattwheelwright1366 I did trim the front of the wheel well on the plastic bumper and I removed the mud flaps. It was simple and I just used a utility knife. I also was able to push the plastic wheel well lining out to fit the cut. I did NOT have to do a body mount chop. When I turn the wheel to full lock I have about 1/4" clearance to the body mount. The tire rubbed the mud flaps where it covered the body mount but when the flap is removed there is no rub. Honestly, you can't even see my cut even though I cut almost 2" off.
Note: A-Trac can only be turned on when you Brake ---> switch gear to Neutral ---> turn to 4Lo. So keep in mind, as soon as you get out of a ditch, you need to switch back to 2H if you don't want damage the drive train.
My atrac works in high all the time in the Cruiser and GX, are you saying it won't work in high range 5th gen 4runner?? And I've been on trails where you are in 4lo all day long, so yeah; shift out before hitting the pavement but you won't cause any drivetrain damage with ATRAC in 4-lo on the dirt all day long. In fact, it won't even engage until a wheel slips
@@ForgottenWaypoints Oh I mean on those rocks or smooth surfaces it will lock up the drive train won't it? I'm super afraid of doing that and have only used 4Lo/4H in sand so far. Also used it in the snow. I think that's fine right?
@@DonutsReview You are correct that 4-lo and 4-hi can potentially cause binding in the drive train. This is because there is no differential in the transfer case. This means that the front drive line and the rear drive line are forced to spin at the same speed. This creates problems when you turn since the rear goes slower than the front. This can potentially ruin the drive train. Typically, though, the tires slip which relieves the pressure so it didn't damage the drive train. I have done many trails on rock for the entire day where I am in 4-lo. I presumably have never had an issue. I have only known one person who broke a drive train component due to 4 wheel drive and turning on a high traction. However, he had front and rear lockers that are always on and he broke a front u-joint. We have less pressure on our drive train since we have only a selectable rear locker. Atrac isn't an issue since it still shows the tires to turn at different speeds.
@@DonutsReview , Atrac actually won't lock up at all, as it's nothing more than computer control anti-lock break pulses. What you are thinking of is prop-shaft windup if you are on super-dry/high traction surfaces in either 4-low or 4-hi (part time) or with the center diff locked (full time), this can be very risky. Truth is, I was accidentally in 4-high in Utah in my 2500HD for about 20 miles at freeway speeds (including mountain climbs and pulling a trailer). Luckily no issues for me, but it scared me as soon as I heard my tires chirping on the pavement at a rest stop, then I switched out. It for sure wasn't good on my drive-train, but luckily prop-shaft windup causing damage is rare (but can be expensive). On slick rock (Moab) or in the dirt, you can be in 4-hi or 4-lo as long as needed, on a trail such as the one in the video clip, we would be in 4-lo for the entire length (hours). In a place such as the Rubicon Trail, you'll be in 4-lo with all your lockers engaged for days.
You should actually make a video of what i just explained in the last comment! People need to know then don't need lockers or a newer car to have fun. I mean sure locker are amazing for some situations but you don't need them for most.
No kidding, right? He does have a rear locker, just didn't have it engaged. Traction control works really well, the advantage of having it up front is that you maintain your ability to steer. As you know, climbing with a front locker engaged can be taxing, especially on high traction surfaces like the slick rock shown. Also, traction control compliments limited slips quite well, causing them to engage and lock quicker than they would without traction control. But yeah, ideally, selectable front and rear lockers are the ultimate in performance. We hope to have some videos similar to this with locked rigs to show in the future.
I am the driver in this clip, and here I was testing the traction control system. Essentially, I was just playing with my toys. Usually I'll turn on the rear locker, but I wanted to see how well the traction control worked. I've been impressed with the success of traction control. I still agree with you, though. Lockers are clearly better for traction. In fact, I have a Jeep Cherokee with front and rear lockers. Each system has its own advantages. The locker gives ultimate traction, but there are costs. When you engage lockers you lose maneuverability. Lockers stress the steering system and cause additional wear and tear on the steering components. When the locker is engaged it stresses the drive train, especially if there is no tire slip. This is why you see more broken axles, hubs, u-joints, drive shafts, etc. with lockers. Traction control has the benefit of added maneuverability, doesn't increase the strain on steering and drive train like a locker, and it also helps for added stability on pavement (snow, train, etc). However, this is at the cost of deceased traction compared to a locker. In the end, I enjoy having both options. Each option has different strengths and weaknesses, and I use both. For a daily driver with a focus more on exploring than hard core off roading, I would be happy with just traction control. For a rock crawler or more serious off roader, a locker is definitely the way to go.
Great info! Just curious, as I'm looking around for a 5th gen 4Runner: So in your opinion, if I'm not going to be doing hardcore offroading, the ATRAC is sufficient to get out of most situations? I doubt I'd be doing anything more challenging that Hell's or Fins n Things if I got out to Moab or similar. Not a lot of wheeling in New England where I am, so Id be concerned with mud and snow performance, which are areas where I typically HATE open diffs. Up until now I've been looking just for a TRD OR model. I oculd care less about crawl or MTS, I just want the rear locker. Even the stock wheels/tires that come on the OR are crap :/ Thanks! Thanks!
@@hineas It sounds like you are lumping together A-trac and Traction Control. I think these are two different systems, one for very low speed (A-trac) and the other for road speeds. But it's good to know how much strain a locker puts on the system. Regarding lockers, your Toyota only has a rear locker. When you started talking about strain and damage on the front end with lockers I assume you were not talking about the 4Runner and instead your jeep with front and rear lockers.
@@timhardman4764 you are correct. My 4Runner has a rear locker and not a front locker. And yes, the standard traction control and A-trac are different. A-trac is tuned more for the off-road environment and is more aggressive than the standard traction control.
Part Time 4 wheel drive (as you say) has nothing to do with why open differentials send all the torque to the spinning wheel, that’s just how open differentials work. Part Time 4 wheel drive means selectable 2H-4H-4LO as the TRD Pro 4Runner has. You have in effect shown that a transfer case equipped 4WD vehicle, does become “Part time” 4WD at the worst of times, when 2 of its 4 wheels lose almost all their traction but that's not the actual meaning of Part time 4WD. Even without a system such as A-Trac, the situation shown would happen much, much less with a rear Limited Slip Differential, and essentially be eliminated with a Locking rear differential. The A-Trac system, as you demonstrate, uses electronics and the ABS system (clamping the spinning wheel caliper) to create a very Limited Slip, almost locking, differential from of a mechanically open differential. If you need more than that you have the RR-Diff-Lock button.
In this case we reference part time in that there is no center differential, or if there were...it is locked. You can have full-time transfer cases with a 2wd mode (NV242 for example). And yes, this is a classic cross-axle trap showing the weakness of open front and rear diffs. We even mentioned lockers, limited slips, and frankly taking a different line (which most likely would have worked).
Some trivia: Did you know that the Discovery 2 and the Hummer H1 both use the same WABCO modulator for their brake systems? I don't think the H1 uses it for traction control purposes (they come with Torsen diffs from the factory). I own a Discovery 2, and though it's traction control profile is "aggressive", I find that it works incredibly well on the rocks, exceeding my expectations. It's just a shame that the current Discovery couldn't shed some of it's rounded curves and nasty wheel in exchange for some 16"-17" wheels and diff-locks. Their current product is actually pretty darn good, it's just wrapped in a shell that makes it difficult/expensive to utilize for technical off-roading day-in-and-day-out, IMO.
8LIFGR8 4x4 it was the hummer h2. I own a 2004 Disco and live in Boulder CO. And I’ve gotten places with my truck that Jeep rubiCON’s couldn’t get. Cheers!
Steve Kay and vice versa my wrangler has left land rovers sitting at the bottom of the hill/other side of the hole/etc. plenty of times. We all know how these "which one is best" discussions go. Happy trails and keep the shiny side up.
Yup, all off-road vehicles have unique strengths and weaknesses. Individual obstacles will exaggerate these weaknesses and excellent driving will likewise magnify their strengths. Then when you add in modifications (some vehicles are easier to mod than others, which is one of the Wrangler's greatest strengths) and it becomes incredibly murky to discuss which "vehicle is best." Research what you like and what fits your needs, and roll with that and let the Internet Warriors pound their keyboards regarding which rig is best. Personally, I'd rather drive the Rubicon in a TJ on 33's or a 2-door JK on 35's and tackle a week long exploration in Utah with lightly modded Toyota Tacomas or Land Rover Discoveries.
Toyota might have been late to the party but Land Rover will NEVER be as reliable as a Yota. NEVER. So when Toyota finally puts something in its vehicles, you can bet your ass it will 1) work, and 2) stay working for years to come. Kind of like the 4L V6 and 5 speed trans. Long in the tooth, sure. But it's bullet proof. My 16 4Runner Trail Premium will most likely still be running like a top when newer "more sophisticated" Rovers have been made into rusted little squares sitting in a scrap yard or dump by Wall-E.
Fernando Mota: great questions. I did change the suspension. I have the Toytec 2" spacer lift. The reason I chose this is because the TRD Pro version has an upgraded suspension which is one reason the price tag is higher. I loved the original suspension and how smooth the ride is off road. I didn't want to ruin the ride, so I went with this spacer lift. The 2015 TRD Pro (I don't know about other years) has upgraded front springs and shocks. The rear has the basic springs from other models but has better shocks. The Toytec 2" lift is a spacer up front and then replaces the rear stock springs. This is a great option on a budget. The lift only costs $400. There are nicer lifts, but since this is not our main off roading vehicle, we went this route. I highly recommend this lift as a budget lift. We have had it for 1 year and it has performed well so far. The tires are 285 70r17. I went with the Duratracs. This size with a 2" lift does require trimming of the front bumper and removal of the front mud flaps. If you search online you can find descriptions on how to modify the inner fender lining to make the trimming possible. Trimming was easy and isn't noticeable since it is on the underside of the bumper. The mud flaps are removed easily by just a few screws and plastic tabs.
Awesome thanks, I have the same exact vehicle and sometimes run into some clearance issues when going off road. I love the suspension, I'll definitely take a similar route with the toytec Lift and 285's. How do you like the 4runner compared to other vehicles going off road?
Fernando Mota, once again that is another good question but is difficult to answer. To start off, I LOVE my 4Runner. I have no regrets buying it and if I could go back in time I would still buy this 4Runner. It has exceeded my expectations after 2.5 years of ownership. To answer your question, let me give some background. I also currently own a 2000 Jeep Cherokee and a 1964 CJ-3b. I grew up driving a 1979 Jeep CJ7, an early 1990's full sized Ford Bronco, then a 2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler. I have taken all of these off-highway. The 4Runner is the best vehicle I have ever driven as the most well rounded vehicle. What do I mean by that? This is our family car (4 people in my family). It drives comfortably at 80 mph. It is comfortable in long car rides. It has a ton of storage space compared to my other vehicles. I can fit a double stroller and luggage for a family of 4 for a week long vacation and still see out the back window. I tow a 4,000 lbs RV trailer with my 4Runner. This is the only vehicle I have had that does all this AND can still go off-highway well. As you know, it has the rear locker and the A-Trac. The traction it has is amazing. I have taken this all over western Colorado and Utah. I have been impressed with its capabilities. I personally love the TRD suspension. It doesn't have amazing articulation, but it handles bumps off highway like a dream. Conversely, when driving my Cherokee I have to slow down quite a bit so I don't break my teeth... Having said that, I still do not think it is the best off-highway vehicle. Clearance leaves a lot to be desired. My Jeep Cherokee had way more usable clearance even when it only had 31" tires. The 4Runner is definitely limited by its clearance. By usable clearance I mean breakover angle, approach angle, and departure angle. I had to buy a skid plate to put in my hitch receiver to protect the annoyingly huge and low hanging rear plastic bumper. Less than 24 hours after buying this vehicle we ripped off the black trim on the back bumper (I may have cried). The gas tank hangs horribly low under the frame and begs for rocks to hit it. The gas tank skid plate is paper thin and mine is bent up quite a bit. My lift and bigger tires has helped quite a bit, but I still hit the undercarriage quite a bit compared to my Jeep. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I chose my vehicle based on my goals. If you want a rock crawler, I wouldn't suggest the 5th generation 4Runner. My Jeep Cherokee has modest 33" tires which are essentially the same size as my 4Runner. The Cherokee has front and rear lockers. The Cherokee has WAY more clearance. If I'm going to do difficult trails with rock crawling, ledges, etc., I will always choose my Jeep. My parents 2001 Jeep TJ with just one locker and 33" tires does even better than my Cherokee because the suspension has better articulation and it has even more clearance. My 4Runner just isn't built to be a rock crawler. However, if I'm going into the mountains of Colorado and I'm doing moderately difficult trails, I chose the 4Runner every time. It is just better for that type of trail. The suspension is hands down more comfortable. I also like that can turn on the A-trac and not worry about having enough traction. I have enough storage for my cooler, 4 camping chairs, tools, recovery gear, etc. And more importantly, it doesn't bother me if I have to drive 2 hours to get to the trail head because it drives so well on the highway. In short, the 5th generation 4Runner is not great at rock crawling unless you do serious (expensive) modifications. But the 5th generation 4Runner is phenomenal for the moderately difficult trail and amazing for the multi-day back county expedition (overlanding). I have always said that this 4Runner may not be the best in any one category, but it is the best all-around vehicle I have ever had. So if you are like me and want a vehicle that can be used for a daily driver, a family vehicle, a vehicle to tow a camping trailer that can then also explore the back country, and a vehicle to drive across country on a family vacation, the 4Runner outshines the competition. I hope that makes sense. Let me know if you have more specific questions.
I completely agree with your assessment. We also use the 4runner as a family vehicle and serves well for long trips. My skid plates are beat pretty good too.
That's actually a good question. They all work on the same principals, but if I had to guess, I would say Land Rover's system has an edge. That said, neither system is as good as locked differentials.
@@ForgottenWaypoints Definitely. I just got a GX470 and I like it, I was torn between a Disco 2 and a 470, Ill probably built out he 470 and see. I dont plan to go lockers anytime soon but I want to basiclaly do all trails that aren't a MANDATORY locker trail
No no no no. Old school way. Left foot brake. People are such noobs! how does no one know this trick? Seriously. Old school Atrack is to simply left foot brake as you're accelerating. You have no idea how many people look at me like you don't have lockers? By holding the brake you don't allow as much slippage. My cousin had an old 4x4 and got stuck all the time. Told him put it in park and get out in the place he was stuck, I got in and went right over it without breaking a sweat. Amazing video though, props to you for doing this. Also one more trick sometimes even just applying the E brake will be enough, it's kinda like having a locker but not really. Anyway I learned to off road in my old f150 single cab and it had no assistance of any kind. I've tried all of these methods. I own a 19 tacoma now all 3rd gen tacomas have A track on 4 low and I don't think you can turn it off anymore.
That's basically what traction control does, except you are pulsing the wheel that needs to be pulsed and not all 4 at the same time. I'd have to disconnect my ABS sensors to do this though, as your ABS sensors will be faster and better at it than left-foot. But you are correct, that's indeed an old-school trick. We used to do it all the time on the CJ7 until we got a Lock Right up front (and had a Detroit in the rear).
@@ForgottenWaypoints yeah I'm aware of all that. All I was saying is that there was one option you left out. I just want people to know they can do that. Not everyone has a new car and to be honest you don't need a locker most of the time if you know what you are doing. With that being said, obviously it's better to have lockers and in some situations it's a must. But that's for pretty intense stuff.
@@alexgarcia3900 , Agreed. I'll have to find an obstacle and pull an ABS sensor to disable traction control and show how it is done. All of my current rigs won't let me do it as ABS kicks in before my left foot can, hahah.
Yup...it does work, and would have worked just fine on that hill (as described); however, after changing an axle on Golden Spike, and a rear diff on Moab Rim, I'm not a huge fan of momentum... But sometimes momentum can't get you through...A-TRAC can get you over the Golden Crack....momentum can't.
There is truth to that! My "sand skills" are even worse than my "mud" skills, lots of rock where I'm from. We plan on another segment with lockers where we play in some loose dirt (not sand though), loose enough that traction control is a huge hinderance because momentum at that point is key, and ABS TC is a good way to kill your momentum when you need it. You are correct there sir!
Terrible title. It implies that you use either A-trac or 4wd. You cannot use A-trac without 4wd being engaged. So really the choice is between A-trac or just open diffs. Unless of course you also have lockers.
True, most people who watch these entry level videos aren't searching 'open diffs', so they'd never find it. I honestly find it interesting that the 5th gen 4runner can turn off A-trac, it's engaged all the time on my LX/GX.
8LIFGR8 4x4 agreed. My FJ can turn it off as well. Truly I like the option. I just hate that without a wiring hack, you can’t run A-Trac and locker at the same time!
@@TheRazmotaz , That's weird. I'll have to ask my cousin (the orange TRD) if his is the same way. Rear locker + front traction control is really flexible. I can see why you do the wiring hack. The Jeep Rubicon maintains traction control if you have the rear locker engaged (with both engaged, it wouldn't work anyway), I wonder why Toyota decided to keep them separate?
BFD...Nothing spectacular about Hell's revenge steps as shown in video. Millions of similar steps throughout the Moab area. Send in a video when the vehicle does Hell's Gate.
That would be a video of Hell's Gate. This isn't a "LoOk WhAt mY ToYoTa CaN dO" video. It's a video designed to show how ATRAC operates for newbies so that they maintain correct throttle application and not let up when ATRAC is doing its thing. I have plenty of videos of obstacles up to 7-rated on my Channel, if you want to see 8s and higher, you'll have to find rock crawling content.
It's a 45lb frame-mounted slider on each side. It *is* a daily driver, so they incorporated the tread/step onto the top of the tree rail, but if that makes it a "lame running board", so be it. They function incredibly well: www.shrockworks.com/5th-Gen-Toyota-4Runner-Rock-Sliders-2010-2016-pr-16256.html
Thanks for the laugh! Those "running boards" have been well used. The powder coating underneath may be gone because I have hit them on numerous rocks and slid across my fair share of ledges, but there is not a single dent in them or the body. Honestly, we chose these sliders because they are also a great step for my young kids and wife. In other words, we chose one that looks like a running board but is actually a slider. The frame is lower than these sliders so they don't even take away from ground clearance.
Fair enough. HAHA! I am glad that you at least have it out there on the trail. Most of these don't see any real trail time. But take them off for a few weeks and you will like it more.
I do think that Toyota screwed up badly with the location of these buttons for off roading. That is not ergonomic at all. In fact it is awkward and should be relocated to somewhere in eye view.
B W, I definitely agree about the button location. Pretty annoying. I have thought that since the day I bought it. I also agree that this vehicle should be taken off road. We bought this instead of a minivan because it works as a family car and we can take it off road. We take this thing all over Colorado and Utah exploring the back country. Heck, we even take it on worse trails than this. About the sliders, though, I personally love them. Let's just agree to disagree. We bought this 4Runner specifically without the stock running boards because we take it off road and I knew I would rip them off. I ran without any running boards or sliders for a year. The type of trails in our area are riddled with many ledges and rocks that are begging to damage the body under the doors. I was constantly worried I was going to sustain body damage. Especially since this is my wife's vehicle.... I bought real sliders instead of running boards because we do take the vehicle off road. These have more than paid for themselves in how much body damage they have prevented. I have hit them multiple times on rocks and they have saved the body. These are tucked up tight under the body, and unlike running boards they don't take away from clearance. We have a 2" lift, 33" tires, two young kids, and this is my wife's daily driver. We need the steps. That's why we went this route instead of sliders that angle up. I'm pleased with these. They are strong and can stand a beating off road. Thanks for the comments and thanks for watching the video. I always appreciate a different point off view.
Keep telling yourself that.. That's why Jeeps come with a complimentary Snap On toolbox. Because that shit breaks. Often. Ever seen a Wrangler with 300K miles and no major repairs or rebuilds in its lifetime? Not likely.
Technically the Atrac on the rear axle is disabled for that axle when the locker is engaged. The front axle will still have the Atrac feature active while the rear locker is engaged if you have Atrac selected.
Correct. I guess ATRAC could still be "enabled" in the rear, but it's not going to read any slip while the locker is engaged. If it does.....you have major problems!
ATrac & lockers definitely is an life saver when your wheeling alone.
Excellent explanation of ATRAC!
This is the best and most concise explanation of how ATrac works that I’ve seen yet. Great video!
why can't all online help videos be like this. Great job.
These technical videos are superb. Thank you, and I look forward to seeing more.
Thanks! We have a lot planned this year!
It's my daily driver, home projects hauler and fun times adventuring vehicle. It's like a swiss army knife vehicle. Love my 4runner. I knew a little about the atrac system. Used it a few times just because, did not need to, but this explanation helps explain the stutter noise it made. It's the ABS.
Yup, it's a natural tendency to let off the throttle when you hear that noise (you should hear how loud it is in an old Land Rover Discovery!); when in truth you should keep a steady throttle and let the traction control do it's thing.
The two biggest rookie mistakes that I see are:
1) Too much throttle and potentially breaking stuff with torque before the TC can even engage. (this applies to even non-TC rigs, in fact, your chances of breaking stuff with heavy throttle on old-school lockers is arguably greater (and why most buggies swap out for huge axles).
2) Letting off the throttle too soon before TC can engage.
It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it, it works great.
I have a new 2020 4Runner TRD Off Road and just finished a off road driving course.. I'm trying to learn all I can and this taught me that I don't always need my locker.. Thanks!
another thing with A-trac Active Traction Control is I hope most people know how to correctly operate it. You want to be at around 1,100 RPM and no more than 4mph for A-trac to work properly. If let off the gas pedal A-trac wouldn't work. If pushed too hard A-trac wouldn't work either. Best is to hold it at a gentle and constant throttle, the ABS will pulse and grab the brakes.
Yup that is the most important to know to make it work. Most people say it does not work because they are not driving slow enough.
marvelous video--short, clear, informative, nice work!
Thanks! We've been focusing on our trail reviews, but we have more technical videos planned!!
Liked for the simple, direct explanation and the fact you didn't needlessly protract the video to get ads into it.
This is why i was content to get the sr5 over the trd. ATRAC is totally ample for my usage. Love these rigs.
Yup, if you are designing a rig for 3 or even 4 rated trails, A-trac would be perfect and you can save some $$ on your trim package. If you intend to do more serious work, the locker is a great choice. Also, if you plan on modifying your 4Runner extensively, the SR5 is awesome (or even the limited for the luxury goodies), since you will most likely have a suspension lift and armor you'll want to add which makes buying a TRD pointless since you'll rip off the TRD goodies. You can always add lockers to any trim package, it just costs $$..
Thanks for the great ATrac demo. I have an SR5 4wd (no factory locker) and was thinking about adding an Air locker. Seems like ATrac would be sufficient for the little off-roading I’d do.
Yeah, I was very sure when I bought the SR5 that I would be getting a ARB; well 5 yrs later and still doing ok with Atrac
Thank you for the explanation. I recently purchased a SR5 Tforce and after having read some negative reviews, I was concerned that my 4x4 was not going to have the abilities I thought it had. After reading about A-TRAC I felt much better about the situation. Your explanation regarding the geometry aspect of a trap, and the difference between basic 4x4 and ATRAC helped me greatly understand not only how to approach a obstacle, but also what to do when I need to correct the system. Combining the options of taking a different route, and or increasing your speed, combined with the ATRAC system should greatly decrease the chances of getting stuck in a similar situation.
It has its limitations, but I'm a big fan of ABS traction control
Great video. I recall watching this about a year or so to understand(visually) how Atrac works. great work!
Beautiful 4runner color.
It's one of the main reasons I didn't buy a Pro or Off-Road and instead got an SR5 4x4. I have done many trails ranging from intermediate to advanced for over landing and rock crawling and the A-TRAC kept up with others that had locking diff and crawl. That $10K I saved by not getting a Pro or Off-Road model went into Fox suspension, Camburg UCA, Method wheels, Toyot MT tires along with roof rack, step ladder, sliders, low wench front bumper and all LED lightning among more. I show up on the trails and believe me the Pro guys are drooling on my set-up LMAO.
Now check out my Golden Spike vid on why lockers beat ATRAC. But I 100% agree, if you aren't doing 7+ rated trails, lockers are an unnecessary luxury and your money is better spent elsewhere first!
Thanks for the explanation.
Quick and to the point!
PERFECT demonstration!
That orange is the bees knees as much as I love 4Runner I don't understand why they the majority of them are black, white, or metallic grey.
Toyota really limits the colors of the TRD brand. It's kind of annoying. One, maybe two, "flashy" colors (like the orange) which they change out every year; and then black and white. It's really a shame.
This particular 4Runner had to be ordered in. Plenty of black ones available on the dealer lots, but the orange was rare.
Only the TRD Pro comes in 1 special color a year and maybe every Toyota dealer around the country gets 1 or 2 a year to sell. I had to wait over a month for the 2018 TRD Off-Road (Metallic gray lol) with no KDS. Its not easy buying them for sure
I did not have a good experience with ATRAC on my 4th gen, but after this video I have more respect for it.
Make sure to keep steady throttle, many people cut the power right when ATRAC engages. I haven't used it much on my GX470, which should be similar to a 4th Gen, but I've used it quite a bit on my LX470 and it's much better than without it.
@@ForgottenWaypoints I think that was my problem, but I don't think I cut the throttle so much as it needed more throttle than I was giving. Which makes sense because of the braking. Next time out on a muddy road I'll keep this in mind.
Would love to see more videos like this. Well made and educational.
Thanks. We have plans to add multiple videos like this to the "Technical" playlist as soon as we get back from some of our planned trips.
Most underrated tool!
What's curious to me is why isn't it always on? It is on my LX and GX, and my rovers all had traction control on by default. Kind of interesting Toyota puts a button for it on the 4Runner and FJ.
8LIFGR8 4x4 very good point!
excellent video, excellent explanation, congratulations .... I have a Toyota hilux with rear lock and traction control and it really easily passes difficult obstacles ..... saludos desde sur america
ATRAC is pretty darn cool
Awesome explanation of what A-TRAC is! My wife wants a 4runner now, so I'm trying to learn more about their 4wd systems and models. I've been a Jeep guy my whole life, and now I feel like I'm coming from the dark side to the light. lol. I'm guessing not all models come with the "A-TRAC", so is it possible to install ARB air lockers front and rear on a 5th Gen 4runner? I'm sure mechanically it can be done, but will it interfere with the way their computer monitored offroad systems work?
Yes, you can have ARB lockers "ON" and the A-Trac "ON", no problem. The A-Trac won't do anything. It only pulses the brakes when there is differential speed (slip) between either side of the axle. With the lockers engaged, you will have constant speed regardless of torque output to each wheel and the A-Trac will cause the anti-lock brakes to pulse.
That said, I'd still keep it on, because; as you know, it's tough to steer with a front locker. If you disengage the front locker to do some maneuvering and there is slip....the A-Trac will pulse to attempt to give you additional traction.
The systems work very well together, IMO.
@@ForgottenWaypoints Good explanation of how all this works Ben. From the old school 4WD systems to this rig, I have to say, it is worth it to buy one if you can afford it. I would not just buy a 4Runner with 4WD for the heck of it. Plenty of those things to choose from for less money. However, this technology is so CHOICE! It is a Land Rover capabilities and then some because with the Toyota having this new tech. in it, you have the pedigree of longevity and reliability. Not to mention of course resale value. Original cost is lower as well. So my personal experience with owning a 2018 TRD SUV has been extremely positive. Keep in mind, it is not meant to compete with daily drivers in terms of gas consumption.(tho personally I find it competitive)Do you homework, find what you plan on doing most with it and buy accordingly. I highly recommend a TRD tho. Just make sure if you can afford it to get the Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System.(KDSS) This makes your on road ride a lot less top heavy feel. And your off road performance a lot more affective and comfortable. :)
Man what is it with women wanting 4Runners! hahaha my buddies already tease me about how I drive a woman's truck! :)
@@trddad7896 i live in Michigan i see lots of women driving trucks now,i think its due to how fancy trucks are
What a beautiful video and a GREAT explanation! Maybe you could give youtube video lessons to some of the less talented mortals (no-it-alls) on youtube! Thanks!!
Love these technical explanations
Just found this channel
Def subscribe!!!
Thanks! We've been working on our trip reports lately, but have some patience, we have more tech vids planned also!
So what A-Trac does is that it applies the brakes to the wheel that is spinning(open diff) which in turn will cause the power to go to the other side where there is more traction. Achieves the same thing as a locker by doing it differently.
Exactly!! However it's not as good as a locker because 1) it requires slipping to work, 2) slipping robs power, 3) applying brakes to moving parts under load can cause failures.
BUT! It's cheaper than a locker and it's basically free since you have ABS already, and compared to standard 4wd, it's a game changer!!
Check out our Golden Spike vid to see my LX470 on an extreme trail with only ATRAC, vs Jeeps with lockers.
I used to own a 16' TRD PRO 4Runner. Loved it. However I like the front lockers that I have on my ZR2 better. Plus I got me a bed I can throw sh** in when I want. Good work man. Keep them coming. I like quality work. Thumbs up bro.
I'd love to see the ZR2 on the trail. In fact, it's a shame the Hummer Brand went belly up because a second Generation H3 based on the Colorado's suspension/lockers with a shorter wheelbase and a baby Duramax would be sweet.
I would too. However, I live in the southeast (Fl) and we don't get to "rock" like you guys do ( jealous). So I live with the sand and mud, which the ZR2 and the 4Runner both destroy like pros. Keep up the good work man. Peace.
I was actually ruining my 4runner. I dive and fish a lot. So putting the seats down throwing tanks and tackle back there and dragging it out was really ruining the interior plus it was a hassle to load and unload ergo why I actually traded in for the ZR2. It was hard to do bc I really loved that 4Runner. Thanks for asking, hope it helps!
J Smith I am torn between the taco and the 4runner. What are your thoughts?
vegas wajeel depends on really what u want to use your vehicle for. I have a lot of dive equipment and offshore fishing tackle so a truck is much more utilitarian for me. Break down your “Needs” VS your “Wants” and go with that option. I think you’ll be more satisfied in the end. Both are great products. Good luck!
Well explained, thanks!
God bless
I love ATRAC. Unless you’re locked, atrac is a great option.
Great vid from a fellow T4R owner...subbed!!!
Enjoyed the explanation so much, I had to subscribe. Thank you..
Thanks! We are hoping to add more technical/instructional videos this season. In the meantime, check out our trail reviews!
Love the GX460 because atrac is always on... same for the LC,LX, and 4runner limited ...and perhaps the sequoia?
Yup, I have no idea why you'd ever want it off. It's on all the time on all my rigs. LX/GX/disco 2. Even Jeep. Although you can turn it off on the jeep by turning on the lockers. Heheh
@@ForgottenWaypoints do systems by the other brands work the same as atrac? or is one system superior to atrac? I only have experience with atrac. thank you
@@personalfunfest , I find land rover's systems to be the best. Sadly their rigs are neutered by 20" rims detrimental to overall performance. In the end though, all ABS based traction systems are incredibly similar it boils down to driver. I'd still give the edge to Rover.
@@ForgottenWaypoints OK thank you again for your insight.. Peace ✌🏿 from SoCal USA 🇺🇸
@@ForgottenWaypoints Bonus question: what's the mechanical difference between standard traction control and atrac? doesn't regular traction control brake a slipping wheel too???
Well done video.
Excellent thanks 👍👍👍
If I recall correctly, you can't use ATRAC and the rear factory locker on TRD Offroad/TRD PRO at the same time. I have a TRD Offroad. I assume that using my rear locker is more beneficial when offroading than using ATRAC, but it seems like they both have their uses. Seems like being able to use the rear locker and front-only-ATRAC would be a nice option if they allowed it, since Toyota just will not put a locker in IFS.
You can totally use ATRAC and the rear locker at the same time. But since the locker "locks" the rear wheels so they won't spin, ATRAC can't pulse the rear wheels (if it can ...your locker is broke!!)
BUT.....ATRAC will work perfectly on the front wheels, giving you the ultimate off-road performance (rear locker + front ATRAC).
This is how my LX470 functions and on my 2022 Tacoma, I keep ATRAC on all the time (you should only need to turn it off in sand or snow), and it works just fine with the Rear locker (front still pulses like it should).
Feel free to use ATRAC and rear locker all the time!
The only time ATRAC won't work is if your front and rear are locked. Technically the system will be looking for slipping, but it won't slip...the axles can't, they are locked.
Really appreciate the detailed answers. So much so that I subbed. I have a ‘17 LE and am trying to figure out which lift to go with to fit 285 KO2’s while still allowing decent off-road ability. Not sure I’m ready to tear the X-REAS out yet as it is still functional, but it will come out one day. Have been looking hard at the lift leveling kits, but wasn’t sure how well they’d perform off road. Since you’ve had them for some time, what’s been your experience with them off road? Any limitations you’ve come across? Did your toytec kit come with the diff drop and skid drop? Any idea how the Duratracs compare to the KO2’ size-wise? What is the offset of your TRD wheels?
Good explanation ! Well done.
Well explained! 4Runner in the future possibly. I assume A-Trac is used at low speeds only?
No, Atrac can engage in 4H also, some people consider this a bad thing on sand and mud because you can lose momentum.
@@ForgottenWaypoints are you confusing TRAC with A-TRAC here. 4H A-TRAC??
@@beebach4491 , can the 4runner not use Atrac in 4H? My GX470 and LX470 all engage Atrac in 4H and 4L, there are only two systems, stabilitrac which is used on the highway to prevent spins and it cuts the throttle and Atrac which is used off road and is a traction aid.
@@ForgottenWaypoints I have a 2019 OR. The A-TRAC is engaged in 4Lo only, so up to 25 MPH I guess. If the rear diff is locked the A-TRAC will turn off if moving more than 4 mph.
It's really just open differentials, not part time four wheel drive... assuming you've put it into four wheel drive at this point. ATrac just uses the abs and braking systems to simulate locking differentials... as you point out in this cool video.
it's part time 4x4. Lexus GX, 4runner limited, Landcruiser have actual center differentials for full time 4x4... and the center diff can also be locked... the only 4runner with a center differential is the limited... all others are 2wd...or 4x4 on slippery surfaces only
@@personalfunfest Yes, most 4runners are part time 4wheel drive. However, my point was, once in 4x4 it's not functioning in "part time" anymore. It's 4x4 with open diffs... until you lock one... or use ATrac. The "part time" nature of the the 4runner 4x4 systems means they can run in 2x4 (rear drive) until you need 4x4. Once you put it in 4x4 it locks the transfer case (sometimes also called a center differential) and then it functions the same as the full time system you're referencing. Full time 4x4 don't have a full time locked center diff. (It can of course be locked.) A full time system doesn't have anything to do with having a locking center diff really. It could be full time 4x4 without a lockable center diff... though that's usually called AWD. Either way, what ATrac does in all cases is basically the same, as ATrac doesn't do anything with a center differential, locked or not. The 4runner in this video also has a lockable rear diff but until it's locked it functions as an open diff and ATrac simulates locking both front and rear "axels" by using the brakes. The other vehicles you mention have lockable center diffs (or more accurately lockable transfer cases) as you point out. They are full time 4x4 which again doesn't really have anything to do with the lockable nature of their center diff. It just mean power is always going to both "axels" all the time. The 4runner in 4x2 saves on gas and wear. You only put it in 4x4 when needed.
Very nice. There isn't a standard size...is there? Anyway, I had sold Toyotas for a number of years. The explanation for fewer locking diffs is this. There are fewer parts to break. A locking diff is an additional part(s) of the drivetrain. With Toyota's ATRAC, all you need is limited slip(look it up if you don't understand it)which already exists on the product, , and the brains(software and electronics). The only software and electronics that Toyota uses is the ABS software, with a little modification. The ABS system simply fools the limited slip that both tires have grip and they should both get power. Again if this is confusing, look up limited slip. The reason to not have locked diffs is that it causes accelerated wear on expensive drive train parts.
You can also apply brake pressure to send power to the wheel with traction.
In a full time 4wd vehicle like a land cruiser, if the center diff is left unlocked, would atrac send power front and rear, or only left and right?
On a full-time 4wd vehicle with center diff-lock unlocked, torque is equal across 4-wheels but wheelspin differs. This means the wheel with the most slip gets the most wheel speed (front or rear). IE: the one free-spinning (you are stuck).
With the center diff lock unlocked, the A-Trac will pulse across all 4 wheels as they spin freely, attempting to transfer torque to a wheel that can put down more torque. This "kind of" works, but robs you of important momentum and control as you are fighting the ABS.
This is why locking a center differential is so important to an Atrac equipped rig, as it forces TWO (not one) wheels (front and back) to spin at the same speed regardless of torque output, and now ATRAC only has to pulse side-to-side instead of across all 4 wheels. It's also why Land Rover finally admitted they made a mistake with the Disco 2 and has offered a locking center diff in the discovery from 2004 on.
I made an indepth video on CDL locked and unlocked here (but we didn't incorporate ATRAC)
ua-cam.com/video/eEQeIK8_ru4/v-deo.html
8LIFGR8 4x4 awesome, great explanation. I also watched the video you linked to. I’m confused as to why the torque is equal across all for wheels.
@@woolengrappler , it's the way a differential works. If you raise a wheel with an open differential, that wheel spins and the one on the ground stops spinning. Since the differential has to supply equal torque, and the lowest amount of torque it can supply is 0 (the tire in the air), the one on the ground won't spin.
Now, if the front was locked, the tires have to spin at equal rates, but the torque put to the terrain is unequal.
In that scenario, if you were moving 1mph, the front wheel in the air would be spinning 1mph and supplying 0 torque, but the one on the ground would be moving 1mph and supplying all of the torque.
So in a full-time 4wd system with ALL open differentials, as soon as ONE wheel is lifted the torque supplied to the system is 0 (tire in the air) and it gets all the spinning. Now ATRAC will buzz that wheel, stopping it, and moving torque to the next wheel that can supply the least amount of torque. On pavement, this is just fine since a high traction surface is available at 1 of the 4 wheels nearly all the time. Even in bad weather.
Off road, like sand/mud, off camber with a tire in the air, this is NOT the case, and your ATRAC will buzz all the time trying to get power to the terrain. If you lock JUST the center differential, then one wheel front and rear MUST spin the same rate, weather it's in the air or not, and then ATRAC only needs to pulse side-to-side greatly limiting the work it needs to do. Further locking the rear and ATRAC only pulses between the front wheels as they raise off the ground and/or slip.
Once you are triple locked, ATRAC can't function at all, because your front/rear tires will NEVER slip (unless the gears are stripped) and all wheels move at the same speed. This is why fully-locked rigs have such a performance advantage in technical terrain (although a locked front makes it hard to steer, which is why a selectable locker up front is recommended).
Whew....sorry that was so long.
8LIFGR8 4x4 haha, thank you! I think I’m confusing spinning with torque. As in if a wheel is lifted and it is spinning, if that makes sense.
@woolengrappler, think of it this way:
Across a differential torque applied has to be zero (speeds of the opposite wheels can be different).
Across a locker, wheels speeds are the same (measured torque to the terrain at each wheel can be different).
That is the primary difference between a locker and a differential. A differential prevents scuffing of tires during turns and driveline binding on high-traction surfaces, a locker guarantees wheel movement, regardless of terrain at the expense of handling and increase stress on the system. Both tools are useful for different driving scenarios, which is why selectable lockers Front, rear, and center are so ideal.
Excellent!!!,,
can you tell me what sliders those are? looking for a set for my Trail.
Skidmark for the hitch skid and Shockworks for the sliders. We have updated the video description to include a modification list.
Is it possible to engage rear locker and A-Trac at the same time?
Yes. Obviously, because of the locker in the rear, only the front will receive any abs pulsing.
@@ForgottenWaypoints I heard some models actually wouldn't let you engage diff lock and a-trac at same time. Maybe I guess it varies manufacturers to manufacturers, and different models to models.
On some vehicles when you engage a locker it disables the highway version of Traction Control (the little yellow light with car and swervy icon), but your off-road traction control remains enabled.
Basically a way to clear tough obstacles without locking the diff or switching to low 4?
I don't really like ATRAC in 4H, except to prevent skid on washboard, it's still best paired with 4L on obstacles. It really helps when you don't have a locker, so the 4Runner with locker in the rear and ATRAC up front is better than my GX460 which is just ATRAC.
@@ForgottenWaypoints thanks. Ive never used atrac on mine. Couldn't figure out what it did.
Really appreciate your active assistance on your great videos.
You should actually always try a new line first to practice your off-road driving abilities. Then use traction aids as needed.
For sure! In this scenario, a new line would have required more speed and I’d rather crawl than gun it.
What he should have done was had atrac on all the time, but his year of 4Runner doesn’t do that. My Tacoma switch is in all the time, I guess I’d turn it off for sand, but never seen a need. Traction control is great!
@@ForgottenWaypoints I understand...makes sense
Were you in 4hi or 4lo while doing this? Also, how would ATRAC differ from using the terrain select?
4-Lo. Terrain select fine-tunes how aggressively traction control responds. For example, in 'rock mode', it's very aggressive. In mud or sand, not so much, as aggressive TC will reduce wheel speed too much.
@@ForgottenWaypoints thanks brother, every since Toyota announced these would have an updated infotainment for the 2020 model year I'm really looking closely at these. And in that army green!
Have the 285s been working alright with your TRD Rims? I know they recommend at least a 7.5” tire (but I also know many people still do it). What PSI were they for Hell’s Revenge?
Glenn Schmidt, the tires have been working well for me. But you are correct, the recommended rim width for these tires is 7.5-9" and the TRD rim is 7" wide. I have been running this size for over a year and I love them.
I will be honest though, I did have a bead issue on one tire. That was after a trip to Moab and after wheeling while aired down. I don't know if I can blame the bead on the rim size or if it was just from being aired down. I suspect it was because I was aired down and I flexed the sidewall just right to get a slow leak. The leak was slow enough that I didn't even get a low pressure light until a few days after I aired back up. To fix it, the tire shop had to break the bead and reseat it. I have aired down multiple times before and after that trip with no other issues. But back to your original question, I personally am comfortable with these tires on these rims, but I can't speak for everyone. I will buy them again.
As a side note, this tire size requires trimming up front. I have a 2" lift, and I still had rub if I was turning and going over a small bump. I trimmed the front bumper and removed the front mud flaps. Some sources say you might have to do a body mount chop to fit this size, but I did not. When I have the wheel turned to full lock and flexing the tire up, I have about 1mm of space between the tire and the body mount. For me, removing the mudflap was sufficient.
On this trip to Hell's Revenge I was aired down to roughly 20 psi, if memory serves. I have gone lower, but with these tires I feel like I get too close to the rim when I'm on a rock. My Jeep Cherokee has the 33" 12.50 on a 15" rim, and I'll run those at 12 psi off road without an issue. I'm running the Duratracs on both the 4Runner and the Cherokee, and the load rating is D on the 4Runner and C on the Cherokee. Even with the stiffer side wall, I can't air down as much in the 4Runner. I assume this is because the rims are 17" vs 15".
I hope this answers your question!
hineas I appreciate your detailed response! On the forums it seems like some ppl have to do some minor cutting and some don’t. I suppose every vehicle is unique so I’d just have to wait and see and go from there.
Glad to know the 285s will work on the TRD rims tho. I’ll be picking my ‘18 ORP up in two weeks and want to have the wheels ready to throw on. I suppose I’ll have to get the lift as well. I’m eyeing the stage 2 or 3 Icon w billet UCAs, I think that should do it.
Thanks again for all the great info, and I love your Pro!
Thanks! We love the Pro as well.
I read the same thing, some vehicles require trimming and some don't.
I'm personally eyeing the Icon lift as well, but I just have too many darn things to spend my money on right now. I guess I'll survive with the spacer lift I currently have until next upgrade.
@@hineas Any cutting required to fit the 285s with just the 2" spacer lift? I'm looking to do the same mods but want to avoid a BMC, if possible.
@@mattwheelwright1366 I did trim the front of the wheel well on the plastic bumper and I removed the mud flaps. It was simple and I just used a utility knife. I also was able to push the plastic wheel well lining out to fit the cut.
I did NOT have to do a body mount chop. When I turn the wheel to full lock I have about 1/4" clearance to the body mount. The tire rubbed the mud flaps where it covered the body mount but when the flap is removed there is no rub. Honestly, you can't even see my cut even though I cut almost 2" off.
Note: A-Trac can only be turned on when you Brake ---> switch gear to Neutral ---> turn to 4Lo. So keep in mind, as soon as you get out of a ditch, you need to switch back to 2H if you don't want damage the drive train.
My atrac works in high all the time in the Cruiser and GX, are you saying it won't work in high range 5th gen 4runner??
And I've been on trails where you are in 4lo all day long, so yeah; shift out before hitting the pavement but you won't cause any drivetrain damage with ATRAC in 4-lo on the dirt all day long. In fact, it won't even engage until a wheel slips
@@ForgottenWaypoints Oh I mean on those rocks or smooth surfaces it will lock up the drive train won't it? I'm super afraid of doing that and have only used 4Lo/4H in sand so far. Also used it in the snow. I think that's fine right?
@@DonutsReview
You are correct that 4-lo and 4-hi can potentially cause binding in the drive train. This is because there is no differential in the transfer case. This means that the front drive line and the rear drive line are forced to spin at the same speed. This creates problems when you turn since the rear goes slower than the front.
This can potentially ruin the drive train. Typically, though, the tires slip which relieves the pressure so it didn't damage the drive train. I have done many trails on rock for the entire day where I am in 4-lo. I presumably have never had an issue.
I have only known one person who broke a drive train component due to 4 wheel drive and turning on a high traction. However, he had front and rear lockers that are always on and he broke a front u-joint. We have less pressure on our drive train since we have only a selectable rear locker.
Atrac isn't an issue since it still shows the tires to turn at different speeds.
@@hineas Haha i don't even have the back locker. I'm running the SR5 Premium.
@@DonutsReview , Atrac actually won't lock up at all, as it's nothing more than computer control anti-lock break pulses.
What you are thinking of is prop-shaft windup if you are on super-dry/high traction surfaces in either 4-low or 4-hi (part time) or with the center diff locked (full time), this can be very risky.
Truth is, I was accidentally in 4-high in Utah in my 2500HD for about 20 miles at freeway speeds (including mountain climbs and pulling a trailer). Luckily no issues for me, but it scared me as soon as I heard my tires chirping on the pavement at a rest stop, then I switched out. It for sure wasn't good on my drive-train, but luckily prop-shaft windup causing damage is rare (but can be expensive).
On slick rock (Moab) or in the dirt, you can be in 4-hi or 4-lo as long as needed, on a trail such as the one in the video clip, we would be in 4-lo for the entire length (hours). In a place such as the Rubicon Trail, you'll be in 4-lo with all your lockers engaged for days.
You should actually make a video of what i just explained in the last comment! People need to know then don't need lockers or a newer car to have fun. I mean sure locker are amazing for some situations but you don't need them for most.
whats wrong with lockers like the good ol days?
No kidding, right? He does have a rear locker, just didn't have it engaged. Traction control works really well, the advantage of having it up front is that you maintain your ability to steer. As you know, climbing with a front locker engaged can be taxing, especially on high traction surfaces like the slick rock shown.
Also, traction control compliments limited slips quite well, causing them to engage and lock quicker than they would without traction control. But yeah, ideally, selectable front and rear lockers are the ultimate in performance.
We hope to have some videos similar to this with locked rigs to show in the future.
I am the driver in this clip, and here I was testing the traction control system. Essentially, I was just playing with my toys. Usually I'll turn on the rear locker, but I wanted to see how well the traction control worked. I've been impressed with the success of traction control.
I still agree with you, though. Lockers are clearly better for traction. In fact, I have a Jeep Cherokee with front and rear lockers.
Each system has its own advantages. The locker gives ultimate traction, but there are costs. When you engage lockers you lose maneuverability. Lockers stress the steering system and cause additional wear and tear on the steering components. When the locker is engaged it stresses the drive train, especially if there is no tire slip. This is why you see more broken axles, hubs, u-joints, drive shafts, etc. with lockers.
Traction control has the benefit of added maneuverability, doesn't increase the strain on steering and drive train like a locker, and it also helps for added stability on pavement (snow, train, etc). However, this is at the cost of deceased traction compared to a locker.
In the end, I enjoy having both options. Each option has different strengths and weaknesses, and I use both.
For a daily driver with a focus more on exploring than hard core off roading, I would be happy with just traction control. For a rock crawler or more serious off roader, a locker is definitely the way to go.
Great info! Just curious, as I'm looking around for a 5th gen 4Runner: So in your opinion, if I'm not going to be doing hardcore offroading, the ATRAC is sufficient to get out of most situations? I doubt I'd be doing anything more challenging that Hell's or Fins n Things if I got out to Moab or similar. Not a lot of wheeling in New England where I am, so Id be concerned with mud and snow performance, which are areas where I typically HATE open diffs.
Up until now I've been looking just for a TRD OR model. I oculd care less about crawl or MTS, I just want the rear locker. Even the stock wheels/tires that come on the OR are crap :/
Thanks!
Thanks!
@@hineas It sounds like you are lumping together A-trac and Traction Control. I think these are two different systems, one for very low speed (A-trac) and the other for road speeds. But it's good to know how much strain a locker puts on the system. Regarding lockers, your Toyota only has a rear locker. When you started talking about strain and damage on the front end with lockers I assume you were not talking about the 4Runner and instead your jeep with front and rear lockers.
@@timhardman4764 you are correct. My 4Runner has a rear locker and not a front locker.
And yes, the standard traction control and A-trac are different. A-trac is tuned more for the off-road environment and is more aggressive than the standard traction control.
Part Time 4 wheel drive (as you say) has nothing to do with why open differentials send all the torque to the spinning wheel, that’s just how open differentials work.
Part Time 4 wheel drive means selectable 2H-4H-4LO as the TRD Pro 4Runner has. You have in effect shown that a transfer case equipped 4WD vehicle, does become “Part time” 4WD at the worst of times, when 2 of its 4 wheels lose almost all their traction but that's not the actual meaning of Part time 4WD.
Even without a system such as A-Trac, the situation shown would happen much, much less with a rear Limited Slip Differential, and essentially be eliminated with a Locking rear differential. The A-Trac system, as you demonstrate, uses electronics and the ABS system (clamping the spinning wheel caliper) to create a very Limited Slip, almost locking, differential from of a mechanically open differential. If you need more than that you have the RR-Diff-Lock button.
In this case we reference part time in that there is no center differential, or if there were...it is locked. You can have full-time transfer cases with a 2wd mode (NV242 for example). And yes, this is a classic cross-axle trap showing the weakness of open front and rear diffs.
We even mentioned lockers, limited slips, and frankly taking a different line (which most likely would have worked).
@@ForgottenWaypoints I’m not trying to start a rabbit hole here, but, the NV242 is not unique in having a 2WD mode.
That’s not off camber. Off camber is when you’re leaning or side hilling. This is generally referred to as being ‘crossed up’
In our group we refer to 'crossed up' as 'mildly off camber'. It's essentially the same thing, but your terminology is also correct.
Land Rover pioneered this technology back in the 90’s. Good to see it’s taken Toyota and Jeep 20 years to catch up lol
Some trivia: Did you know that the Discovery 2 and the Hummer H1 both use the same WABCO modulator for their brake systems? I don't think the H1 uses it for traction control purposes (they come with Torsen diffs from the factory).
I own a Discovery 2, and though it's traction control profile is "aggressive", I find that it works incredibly well on the rocks, exceeding my expectations. It's just a shame that the current Discovery couldn't shed some of it's rounded curves and nasty wheel in exchange for some 16"-17" wheels and diff-locks. Their current product is actually pretty darn good, it's just wrapped in a shell that makes it difficult/expensive to utilize for technical off-roading day-in-and-day-out, IMO.
8LIFGR8 4x4 it was the hummer h2. I own a 2004 Disco and live in Boulder CO. And I’ve gotten places with my truck that Jeep rubiCON’s couldn’t get. Cheers!
Steve Kay and vice versa my wrangler has left land rovers sitting at the bottom of the hill/other side of the hole/etc. plenty of times. We all know how these "which one is best" discussions go. Happy trails and keep the shiny side up.
Yup, all off-road vehicles have unique strengths and weaknesses. Individual obstacles will exaggerate these weaknesses and excellent driving will likewise magnify their strengths. Then when you add in modifications (some vehicles are easier to mod than others, which is one of the Wrangler's greatest strengths) and it becomes incredibly murky to discuss which "vehicle is best."
Research what you like and what fits your needs, and roll with that and let the Internet Warriors pound their keyboards regarding which rig is best.
Personally, I'd rather drive the Rubicon in a TJ on 33's or a 2-door JK on 35's and tackle a week long exploration in Utah with lightly modded Toyota Tacomas or Land Rover Discoveries.
Toyota might have been late to the party but Land Rover will NEVER be as reliable as a Yota. NEVER. So when Toyota finally puts something in its vehicles, you can bet your ass it will 1) work, and 2) stay working for years to come. Kind of like the 4L V6 and 5 speed trans. Long in the tooth, sure. But it's bullet proof. My 16 4Runner Trail Premium will most likely still be running like a top when newer "more sophisticated" Rovers have been made into rusted little squares sitting in a scrap yard or dump by Wall-E.
What is the tire size and did you change the suspension? Thanks
Fernando Mota: great questions. I did change the suspension. I have the Toytec 2" spacer lift. The reason I chose this is because the TRD Pro version has an upgraded suspension which is one reason the price tag is higher. I loved the original suspension and how smooth the ride is off road. I didn't want to ruin the ride, so I went with this spacer lift.
The 2015 TRD Pro (I don't know about other years) has upgraded front springs and shocks. The rear has the basic springs from other models but has better shocks. The Toytec 2" lift is a spacer up front and then replaces the rear stock springs. This is a great option on a budget. The lift only costs $400. There are nicer lifts, but since this is not our main off roading vehicle, we went this route. I highly recommend this lift as a budget lift. We have had it for 1 year and it has performed well so far.
The tires are 285 70r17. I went with the Duratracs. This size with a 2" lift does require trimming of the front bumper and removal of the front mud flaps. If you search online you can find descriptions on how to modify the inner fender lining to make the trimming possible. Trimming was easy and isn't noticeable since it is on the underside of the bumper. The mud flaps are removed easily by just a few screws and plastic tabs.
Awesome thanks, I have the same exact vehicle and sometimes run into some clearance issues when going off road. I love the suspension, I'll definitely take a similar route with the toytec Lift and 285's. How do you like the 4runner compared to other vehicles going off road?
Fernando Mota, once again that is another good question but is difficult to answer.
To start off, I LOVE my 4Runner. I have no regrets buying it and if I could go back in time I would still buy this 4Runner. It has exceeded my expectations after 2.5 years of ownership.
To answer your question, let me give some background. I also currently own a 2000 Jeep Cherokee and a 1964 CJ-3b. I grew up driving a 1979 Jeep CJ7, an early 1990's full sized Ford Bronco, then a 2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler. I have taken all of these off-highway.
The 4Runner is the best vehicle I have ever driven as the most well rounded vehicle. What do I mean by that? This is our family car (4 people in my family). It drives comfortably at 80 mph. It is comfortable in long car rides. It has a ton of storage space compared to my other vehicles. I can fit a double stroller and luggage for a family of 4 for a week long vacation and still see out the back window. I tow a 4,000 lbs RV trailer with my 4Runner. This is the only vehicle I have had that does all this AND can still go off-highway well.
As you know, it has the rear locker and the A-Trac. The traction it has is amazing. I have taken this all over western Colorado and Utah. I have been impressed with its capabilities.
I personally love the TRD suspension. It doesn't have amazing articulation, but it handles bumps off highway like a dream. Conversely, when driving my Cherokee I have to slow down quite a bit so I don't break my teeth...
Having said that, I still do not think it is the best off-highway vehicle. Clearance leaves a lot to be desired. My Jeep Cherokee had way more usable clearance even when it only had 31" tires. The 4Runner is definitely limited by its clearance.
By usable clearance I mean breakover angle, approach angle, and departure angle. I had to buy a skid plate to put in my hitch receiver to protect the annoyingly huge and low hanging rear plastic bumper. Less than 24 hours after buying this vehicle we ripped off the black trim on the back bumper (I may have cried). The gas tank hangs horribly low under the frame and begs for rocks to hit it. The gas tank skid plate is paper thin and mine is bent up quite a bit. My lift and bigger tires has helped quite a bit, but I still hit the undercarriage quite a bit compared to my Jeep.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I chose my vehicle based on my goals. If you want a rock crawler, I wouldn't suggest the 5th generation 4Runner. My Jeep Cherokee has modest 33" tires which are essentially the same size as my 4Runner. The Cherokee has front and rear lockers. The Cherokee has WAY more clearance. If I'm going to do difficult trails with rock crawling, ledges, etc., I will always choose my Jeep. My parents 2001 Jeep TJ with just one locker and 33" tires does even better than my Cherokee because the suspension has better articulation and it has even more clearance. My 4Runner just isn't built to be a rock crawler.
However, if I'm going into the mountains of Colorado and I'm doing moderately difficult trails, I chose the 4Runner every time. It is just better for that type of trail. The suspension is hands down more comfortable. I also like that can turn on the A-trac and not worry about having enough traction. I have enough storage for my cooler, 4 camping chairs, tools, recovery gear, etc. And more importantly, it doesn't bother me if I have to drive 2 hours to get to the trail head because it drives so well on the highway.
In short, the 5th generation 4Runner is not great at rock crawling unless you do serious (expensive) modifications. But the 5th generation 4Runner is phenomenal for the moderately difficult trail and amazing for the multi-day back county expedition (overlanding).
I have always said that this 4Runner may not be the best in any one category, but it is the best all-around vehicle I have ever had. So if you are like me and want a vehicle that can be used for a daily driver, a family vehicle, a vehicle to tow a camping trailer that can then also explore the back country, and a vehicle to drive across country on a family vacation, the 4Runner outshines the competition.
I hope that makes sense. Let me know if you have more specific questions.
I completely agree with your assessment. We also use the 4runner as a family vehicle and serves well for long trips. My skid plates are beat pretty good too.
So is it essentially a 'smart' SUV?
No locker?
The 4Runner did not have the rear locker engaged, primarily just so he could see what A-TRAC could do
Which is better A-trac or Land rover's comparable system?
That's actually a good question. They all work on the same principals, but if I had to guess, I would say Land Rover's system has an edge. That said, neither system is as good as locked differentials.
@@ForgottenWaypoints Definitely. I just got a GX470 and I like it, I was torn between a Disco 2 and a 470, Ill probably built out he 470 and see. I dont plan to go lockers anytime soon but I want to basiclaly do all trails that aren't a MANDATORY locker trail
@@csgofordummies1239 , you won't be disappointed. You'd need a lift and bumpers before a GX470 needs lockers. You'll have a ton of fun with ATRAC.
No no no no. Old school way. Left foot brake. People are such noobs! how does no one know this trick? Seriously. Old school Atrack is to simply left foot brake as you're accelerating. You have no idea how many people look at me like you don't have lockers? By holding the brake you don't allow as much slippage. My cousin had an old 4x4 and got stuck all the time. Told him put it in park and get out in the place he was stuck, I got in and went right over it without breaking a sweat. Amazing video though, props to you for doing this.
Also one more trick sometimes even just applying the E brake will be enough, it's kinda like having a locker but not really. Anyway I learned to off road in my old f150 single cab and it had no assistance of any kind. I've tried all of these methods. I own a 19 tacoma now all 3rd gen tacomas have A track on 4 low and I don't think you can turn it off anymore.
That's basically what traction control does, except you are pulsing the wheel that needs to be pulsed and not all 4 at the same time.
I'd have to disconnect my ABS sensors to do this though, as your ABS sensors will be faster and better at it than left-foot. But you are correct, that's indeed an old-school trick. We used to do it all the time on the CJ7 until we got a Lock Right up front (and had a Detroit in the rear).
@@ForgottenWaypoints yeah I'm aware of all that. All I was saying is that there was one option you left out. I just want people to know they can do that. Not everyone has a new car and to be honest you don't need a locker most of the time if you know what you are doing. With that being said, obviously it's better to have lockers and in some situations it's a must. But that's for pretty intense stuff.
@@alexgarcia3900 , Agreed. I'll have to find an obstacle and pull an ABS sensor to disable traction control and show how it is done. All of my current rigs won't let me do it as ABS kicks in before my left foot can, hahah.
@@ForgottenWaypoints yeah all new cars do that lol
well, ya, get some momentum and you wouldn't miss atrac
Yup...it does work, and would have worked just fine on that hill (as described); however, after changing an axle on Golden Spike, and a rear diff on Moab Rim, I'm not a huge fan of momentum...
But sometimes momentum can't get you through...A-TRAC can get you over the Golden Crack....momentum can't.
8LIFGR8 4x4 guess I've been wheelin in sands and swamps, never need fancy traction computers. VSC and 4wd keep me good in my 3rs gen. Happy wheelin!
There is truth to that! My "sand skills" are even worse than my "mud" skills, lots of rock where I'm from.
We plan on another segment with lockers where we play in some loose dirt (not sand though), loose enough that traction control is a huge hinderance because momentum at that point is key, and ABS TC is a good way to kill your momentum when you need it.
You are correct there sir!
8LIFGR8 4x4 look me up in Houston. Good off-roading on the coast! Cheers!
If the channel takes off, I'll take you up on that for some coastal off tracks episodes!
Terrible title. It implies that you use either A-trac or 4wd. You cannot use A-trac without 4wd being engaged. So really the choice is between A-trac or just open diffs. Unless of course you also have lockers.
True, most people who watch these entry level videos aren't searching 'open diffs', so they'd never find it.
I honestly find it interesting that the 5th gen 4runner can turn off A-trac, it's engaged all the time on my LX/GX.
Title fixed.
8LIFGR8 4x4 agreed. My FJ can turn it off as well. Truly I like the option. I just hate that without a wiring hack, you can’t run A-Trac and locker at the same time!
8LIFGR8 4x4 👌
@@TheRazmotaz , That's weird. I'll have to ask my cousin (the orange TRD) if his is the same way. Rear locker + front traction control is really flexible. I can see why you do the wiring hack.
The Jeep Rubicon maintains traction control if you have the rear locker engaged (with both engaged, it wouldn't work anyway), I wonder why Toyota decided to keep them separate?
BFD...Nothing spectacular about Hell's revenge steps as shown in video. Millions of similar steps throughout the Moab area. Send in a video when the vehicle does Hell's Gate.
That would be a video of Hell's Gate. This isn't a "LoOk WhAt mY ToYoTa CaN dO" video. It's a video designed to show how ATRAC operates for newbies so that they maintain correct throttle application and not let up when ATRAC is doing its thing.
I have plenty of videos of obstacles up to 7-rated on my Channel, if you want to see 8s and higher, you'll have to find rock crawling content.
What’s the point of this video lmfao
Running boards. Lame. Hahaha.
It's a 45lb frame-mounted slider on each side. It *is* a daily driver, so they incorporated the tread/step onto the top of the tree rail, but if that makes it a "lame running board", so be it. They function incredibly well:
www.shrockworks.com/5th-Gen-Toyota-4Runner-Rock-Sliders-2010-2016-pr-16256.html
Thanks for the laugh!
Those "running boards" have been well used. The powder coating underneath may be gone because I have hit them on numerous rocks and slid across my fair share of ledges, but there is not a single dent in them or the body.
Honestly, we chose these sliders because they are also a great step for my young kids and wife. In other words, we chose one that looks like a running board but is actually a slider. The frame is lower than these sliders so they don't even take away from ground clearance.
Fair enough. HAHA! I am glad that you at least have it out there on the trail. Most of these don't see any real trail time. But take them off for a few weeks and you will like it more.
I do think that Toyota screwed up badly with the location of these buttons for off roading. That is not ergonomic at all. In fact it is awkward and should be relocated to somewhere in eye view.
B W, I definitely agree about the button location. Pretty annoying. I have thought that since the day I bought it.
I also agree that this vehicle should be taken off road. We bought this instead of a minivan because it works as a family car and we can take it off road. We take this thing all over Colorado and Utah exploring the back country. Heck, we even take it on worse trails than this.
About the sliders, though, I personally love them. Let's just agree to disagree.
We bought this 4Runner specifically without the stock running boards because we take it off road and I knew I would rip them off. I ran without any running boards or sliders for a year. The type of trails in our area are riddled with many ledges and rocks that are begging to damage the body under the doors. I was constantly worried I was going to sustain body damage. Especially since this is my wife's vehicle....
I bought real sliders instead of running boards because we do take the vehicle off road. These have more than paid for themselves in how much body damage they have prevented. I have hit them multiple times on rocks and they have saved the body. These are tucked up tight under the body, and unlike running boards they don't take away from clearance.
We have a 2" lift, 33" tires, two young kids, and this is my wife's daily driver. We need the steps. That's why we went this route instead of sliders that angle up. I'm pleased with these. They are strong and can stand a beating off road.
Thanks for the comments and thanks for watching the video. I always appreciate a different point off view.
How to get out of this situation.
Step one: get a Jeep Wrangler
Done.
Keep telling yourself that.. That's why Jeeps come with a complimentary Snap On toolbox. Because that shit breaks. Often.
Ever seen a Wrangler with 300K miles and no major repairs or rebuilds in its lifetime? Not likely.
Can A-Trac be activated when the rear locker is activated?
Yes. They work very well together.
Technically the Atrac on the rear axle is disabled for that axle when the locker is engaged. The front axle will still have the Atrac feature active while the rear locker is engaged if you have Atrac selected.
Correct. I guess ATRAC could still be "enabled" in the rear, but it's not going to read any slip while the locker is engaged. If it does.....you have major problems!