Because that radiator is so reflective, you might be able to get a more accurate reading from that laser thermometer if you paint the radiator black first.
Ladies and gentlemen this video shows you the type of man t john is ! Not only does he do great vids and very very knowledgeable at things lots of use wouldnt even consider like recycling oil that water or methanol soaked ir showing us exactly how to use holly hp tuners and what they mean but the man just showed us a video that has a million dollar idea and says maybe one of yall can build it if I cant! And you get it all this knowledge for free it costs nothing! Everyone this man is as good as humanity gets right there he just gave you a idea with a little work would make you not only a fast and consistent racer but possibly rich as well
Perhaps you should consider a simple idea from a 3rd generation engineer thats been in the trade in Australia ( a continent that has spent 60yrs crushing anyone with a brain) If you have a intercooler capable of holding bottle pressure you simply resirculate the liquid through a second unit A ac condensor out front and back to bottle. The basic layout of an Automotive air con system. Given freely rather than giving me a fat bank account that I have never had. Good luck and happy racing friend never met.😊👍👍@TurboJohnRacing
I RAN A KIT SOMETHING LIKE THIS OVER 15 YEARS AGO NOW ON SEVERAL OF MY SUBARUS. I ENDED UP USING THE NITROUS EXPRESS INTERCOOLER KIT WHEN THEY FINALLY BROUGHT THE KITS TO THE MARKET. I USED A PURGE BUTTON AND A 2 STEP SWITCH THROTTLE SWITCH SO IT WOULD SPRAY AT HALF THROTTLE UP TO FULL THROTTLE IT SPRAYED WIDE OPEN CONTINUOUS UNTIL I BACKED OUT OF THE THROTTLE OR THE BOTTLE WAS EMPTY! 😆 IT DID WORK EXTREMELY WELL AND MADE A DRASTIC DIFFERENCE IN LOWERING HIGH TEMPS. IT HELPED EVEN MORE LOWERING HIGH TEMPS ON THE FACTORY TOP MOUNTED INTERCOOLER ON ALL TURBO SUBARUS DUE TO THE FACT THAT ALL TOP MOUNTED INTERCOOLERS SOAK UP MORE HEAT FROM THE ENGINE BAY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND EVERYONE USE A SPRAY KIT ON THE INTERCOOLER OF ANY TURBO CAR STILL RUNNING A TOP MOUNT INTERCOOLER! YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT THE DIFFERENCE IN TEMPERATURE REDUCTION AND POWER GAINS AND THE BEST PART IS YOU CAN STILL USE THE SAME KIT IF&WHEN YOU DECIDE TO SWITCH OVER TO A NICER&LARGER FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER KIT ON YOUR CAR WITHOUT HAVING TO SPEND MORE MONEY OR HAVING TO BUY A COMPLETE NEW SETUP! I HOPE THIS INFORMATION MAY HELP SOMEONE OUT THERE TRYING TO DECIDE WETHER TO BUY A NOS SPRAY KIT FOR THEIR TURB CAR!
They make interchillers which use your ac system and if the idea works that seems like a better solution hooking up a ac compressor and getting it all figured out because with different Refrigerance or different pressures you can get real cold I recently filled my 134a system with r290 (propane) and I saw as cold as 17° f air coming out of my vent while it was 100° outside
I think it's a great idea I've been thinking about using co2 in some way for years! Once this to worry about is icing the core. If it freezes over you would lose massive amounts of flow and get crazy compressor surge soon to follow
Intake air temps are 200-600°+ degrees at times before cooled so freezing probably won't happen. You can regulate flow or use pwm to chatter the trash can solenoid. On off on off on off on off.......
Hey John. You need to make a larger outlet on the co2 core. Its the expansion of the gas that cools the core. You would want very low pressure on outlet side. Just like reading ac gauges.
Liquid Nitrogen isn't that great a coolant. It doesn't have a very high thermal capacity, nor does it have a very good thermal conductivity. So... Liquid nitrogen may be super cold, but it doesn't last very long.
I wanted to try this except for a turbo over landing setup but instead using the air conditioning system. Thank you this has given me some inspiration !!!
Awesome idea! I would get one of those cheap water\air barrel intercoolers and just make an inlet adapter to fit your co2 line and jets. As long as you get the pressure change like an ac system should work great. And I'd pipe the exhaust ac away so there's no chance of sucking it into the intake
"WHEN I GOT MY FIT'INS ON HERE"!!!! I LOVE IT BROTHER! NEVER CHANGE! GODBLESS YOU SIR! THANKS FOR THE INFORMATIVE VIDEOS! THEY ARE ALWAYS HELPFUL TO ALL US GEARHEADS!!
You're the Man John; I've been thinking about this kind of intercooler for a couple of years but you're doing it. A few thoughts tho; An AC compressor weighs close the same as a tank of CO2. Your bottle will need to be refilled for every hit. You can build a compressor setup out of junkyard AC parts you probably already have. The power consumption of an AC compressor is only like 5 HP. KEEP AFTER THIS IDEA!!!
James Wolfe problem I’d see with that, just like the other chillers for SC builds, is that moisture gets leaked out and onto the track so it would only be able to be used in the pits.
@@blindabinda1234 Yep. It can only be used for a limited time....It runs out of coldness really fast. One of the problems is ( just like a cold drink on a hot day ) too much condensation. Remember: Hot air has more moister, then cold air. So you end up with a lot of condensation.
@@brightstarlastname2812 Hot air has more moisture *capacity*, keep in mind charge coolers are intended to reduce the pumping heat from blower/turbo. The intake air carries a quantity of water that doesn't change from intake to cylinder, even though the relative humidity decreases as the charge is boosted the amount of water is the same. Still your point is relevant in that the amount of water is non-zero and so a charge cooler that's below freezing could ice foul.
He's using the wrong gas... this was successfully done back in the 90s. Just the added equipment needed in racing didn't weight out. Yunick I think experiment with it. First started out spraying water in front of the intercooler and radiators when they were trying to keep things from over heating, back in So.Cal
I would actually trying putting the jet on the outlet side so It will give it back pressure on the outlet and maybe help with the distribution of the co2 throughout the whole core. the co2 is gonna go path of rest resistance but if you put a jet in the outlet it may restrict it and keep the co2 on the outlet side a little longer making the outlet side as cold as the inlet side. just a thought
I'm going to guess you have very little experience in HVAC or refrigeration. The liquid going through a small oriface into a large area is where the phase change happens, which is what causes the cooling effect.
I guess you'd need a different transition for the inlet. It's only going to freeze the part where the liquid hits and evaporates so a cone shaped inlet or a smaller nozzle could distribute it better
Doesn't work that way guys. The gas gets how when compressed and then after it loses that heat and it expands it pulls in heat from the surroundings. You need the gas to expanded inside of the core so it will draw the heat from the air going through it. He has it right. Works just like you cars A/C.
@@joepetreng471 a restriction on the outlet of the evaporator would not be beneficial. If anything you alter flow with something like a thermal expansion valve on the inlet side.
R744 is a co2 used as freon. With one of these compressors to squeeze it back into liquid form you can recover the CO2 and run through the system again it would require a heat exchanger pull the heat out of the CO2 before releasing it again
@@jnltreemasters1269 as stated above it doae on the Dodge Demon. Most likely using R1234 or whatever replaced R134a. Temps of -70°F can be seen with co2/R744 liquid to gas phase change. The jet being too big was not causing a proper phase-change, that's why the end of the tank was freezing it was getting exposed to liquid CO2.
That would be awesome thank you for sharing this. It dont seems like it would work esp if you put maybe 2 fittings on it or a tube with holes to get all the area totally cool. Like suggested from below and like you said restrict the outlet some. Wish my turbo setup was done I would try this.Thanks to you and your wife. Hope to see you in the winner's circle
@Turbo John Whenever and wherever you mount it on the vehicle, make sure the flow of c02 is from top to bottom (Such as how it was when you were using the hair dryer on it.). That way there isn't an imbalance of coolant flowing through the core.
Like you said TJ great minds think alike lol, i was working on the same concept but with fuel, always awesome to see someone else as crazy as I trying to rig up something to go fast! Keep it up
I know this is an old video but what you need to do is run the inlet wide open and put the restriction jet on the outlet side . That should force the CO2 into more channels before it is able to exit since there will actually be some pressure created inside and it should cool the entire core down faster.
Can think of several ways to improve the system. Firstly use a different core with bigger runners. The temp difference from side to side is obviously showing a flow restriction. Secondly I would fabricate a new side feed end tank that allowed the flow to be more evenly distributed, or use a multi point injection system. I have been quietly working on this idea for several years now. Different medium but the same idea taken to another level.
Here is something I've seen done that works. Air to Water intercooler running Evans waterless coolant. Dry Ice as the coolant. Evans temp at the intercooler 15 degrees. It's a little more expensive to run but it sure worked.
I would try putting the restriction on the outlet. Take the jet out of the inlet and put it on the outlet. Try to get as much gas in there as possible... but that is just my opinion I'm not to smart about a/c systems
This is a really COOL 🥶idea, what I will definitely try to do is to build a freon core and use the car air con system, so we do not have to buy CO2 no more! Very very great idea!👏
Something I've always wondered is when you run nitrous you add fuel, if your fuel was liquid Propane you would get the benefit of both converting to gas and dropping the temp. I wonder if a 100 NO2 shot with the liquid propane would be enough to act as an effective intercooler.
@@MAXIMUMWEDGE Ok, I can see your issue, but I'm talking about sending it straight into the intake manifold, not to an intercooler, it would be more like Evaporative intercooling. A 100 Shot, Plus the liquid Propane, Plus however much boost your Turbo puts out. Have the 100 Shot go active at full throttle. I think most people launch at 4000 rpm or more these days so it should be fine. It would also allow you to run a larger size turbine for reduced backpressure.
John Parrish, though not very related to this video, what you referred to is the basis of Liquid Phase Injection (LPI) of Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG - a mostly propane automotive fuel commonly available in some countries). Ford Australia did that in recent years with its EcoLPI variant of its excellent Barra 4.0L inline six cylinder engine. The LPG is electronically fuel injected into the engine in its liquid phase. It immediately turns to gas when no longer under storage pressure. Latent heat of vaporisation causes a massive drop in temperature of the intake air that the fuel is perfectly mixing with. This allows more air (and fuel) to enter the engine, producing more power & torque than the petrol (gasoline) variant does. This mild boost without any supercharging or intercooling, combined with high static compression (LPG is a high octane equivalent fuel) not only gives higher performance, but is cleaner on the environment and engine oil, and is cheaper to run too. 🚙
@@lyndongordon2518 Very interesting, I had to look the EcoLPI engine up, I had never heard of it. I was told years ago that EFI was not possible with Liquid Propane because the injectors could not take the pressure and there would be an icing problem. It looks like the Australians solved both. I would love to get my hands on some of these parts to see if a Universal kit could be devised to work with a Holley Terminator or FAST engine management system. Thank You
stand the rad up so both the gas intake and exhaust ports are up top. CO2 and expecially the liquid CO2 is denser than air and colder gas is even denser than warm, so the liquid may puddle at the bottom and make the effect even stronger.
A additional exhaust line could be used for exiting co2. Have it going to a spray bar cooling the radiator or on to the intake?? cool more stuff componets .
If you buy a copper or brass core you can use plumbing solder and copper roof sheeting to solder this all with no aluminum Tig experience. Also, I agree with the liquid nitrogen idea - and I think you will have better results feeding liquid from the bottom (perhaps through an orifice) and having a large vapor exit on the other side, that's how AC systems work as you said earlier in the video.
Open one side of the evaporator coil up so it vents to atmosphere and put 3 nitrous ports on the other side of the tank instead of on the end of the tank. The end tank is saturated with dry ice, that’s why it’s so cold and staying so cold.
It’s not to bad but if you’re worried spraying the front of the inlet with something like m100 before the HX unit will automatically de-ice it or run it @ 40F~ + max cooling temperature Chevy blower cars ( ie LT4) sometimes run them as a mod and don’t have a problem with it
Interesting idea! I think it will work good. with the amount of hot air going though it from the turbo it would warm it up quickly as the core doesn’t have a lot of thermal mass, y’all might have to leave the co2 on the whole time your making power to keep the boost air cold
I would guess there would be a large build up of condensation inside the box. There would need to be a way to gather that liquid and drain it so it doesn't go into the engine.
Someone with good tig skills needs to build an enclosure and run a true test on this setup! It would take some trial and error, but I’m sure you could pre cool it during the burnout and just let it run until the end of the pass as long as you have the right jet size in it. I would imagine a co2 mother bottle is much cheaper than a nitrous mother bottle.
As someone mentioned what if you ran your AC condenser line into the intercooler and back out to the compressor to continuously run AC refrigerant through it? Be like having two condensers on your AC system but would greatly cool your intercooler too... if I’m thinking correctly on how that works?
half that size, put a pressure release on the outflow, drop small tank into waterchiller tank, open the bottle before run, exit pressure release valve will hold the co2 at pressure you set, then it warms up after a few minutes run your pressure release purge valve on exit side to cycle fresh co2 into core to rechill it.
co2 is heavier than air, so the co2 stays in the core even without a exit plug, and as it warms it pushes out, keeping it cold for much longer than valve was open
I am thinking to put a tee in the line and plumb into both sides at the bottom. Jet it at half the size of the one you had . Also thinking you could stack two of them in line to really chill the incoming charge
i know you posted this a couple weeks ago, but perhaps youll still see it. High pressure CO2 is being used in new high end cars for the AC system. The first one (AFAIK) is the new Audi A8. Its been a theory for quite a few years but has such a high operating pressure it has some issues. The good thing about CO2 is it is not flammable and it is not an ozone damaging gas. What im getting at is, if you want to get wild with it and wanted to use it for road racing, you could find out what type of pump theyre using in automotive AC and recirculate the gas.
I think the problem with this will be condensation entering into the air system. Maybe even a freeze up in the intercooler if the air gets cold enough and you can't get rid of the moister in the resulting air flow. Probably not an option for a diesel engine even if it doesn't freeze up because of that. However, placing that directly in a cowl in front of the intercooler would still be an option for short runs.
If the core could handle full pressure you could leave the bottle on and just have a valve on the vent side possibly with a restrictor for more efficient cooling kinda like when you spray an aerosol can for a while and it gets cold
You should stand it vertical with the inlet tank of the core on the bottom. That way the liquid CO2 will cool the core evenly. That is why the bottom of the core was colder than the top. Also it will probably work better with the outlet being bigger. You will have a problem with the core freezing up and restricting airflow too if you let it get below freezing. That is why water to air ICs work better.
It is a Great concept. I would put a pressure relief valve on the open side, this way heat will expand and the pressure valve would release. then create some type of air box to force the air thru the center of the core and it should act like a air to water design. without the weight of water. i would try a 100psi valve this way the co2 stay liquid
Your going through a lot of work and theres already a better solution out there. Look up interchiller on google. It uses the oem AC system too chill a water loop for a A2W. No big slushbox in the trunk needed, small front mount res works better in this application (less time for the ambient air too warm the supercooled coolant) and this can net well below sub ambient IAT temps.
yes, use an air/water intercooler and spray the c02 in core instead of the water. Richard Holdner did a test, but he did it a little different than I would have done it.
I'm considering buying a barrel style water to air cooler and installing it between the intercooler and throttle body but instead of circulating water i would get adapter fittings to circulate CO2 instead. I dont have a highly modified car but I do get spark knock when Im doing a few rips around town here in Phoenix AZ during the 115 degree summer days lol so I need something to help with heat soak. Not something i would use daily but i like the idea of having cold air on demand for those spontaneous rips. If results are affective I'll add another one between the intake filter and turbo to help with turbo cooling.
I've always thought about doing this with liquid nitrogen. what you would do is you would fill the evaporator with liquid nitrogen on one end with a purge valve on the other but also a relief valve and at a certain pressure. It would relieve it because I would no longer be cold enough. And automatically refill from a bottle. You'd have to put some safeties in the system like an automatic shut-off valve... On your intake track because if you got liquid nitrogen in your engine that would be really bad.
Some AC units use propane as refrigerant, it can be cancerous if damaged, but it works! That should work well, for a full race setup along with a air to air intercooler, for normal use, put that in a kinda diamond shaped box between radiator and throttle body, maybe put a valve on the outlet to regulate flow! And there you go pulling -70° air!!
Propane is not a carcinogen. Refrigerant charges are relatively low anyways and a leak that could coexist during operation would have to be darn small or else no operation at all
If you get some kind of condensation along the core while the intake charge passes through, would it be somewhat dangerous for water being carried by the charge and entering your cylinders? I kinda imagined this scenario with a air to water intercooler setup if for some bad luck the turbo impeller blades break off and hit the core fins and cause water to leak out and get sucked in the cylinders. Just thinking out loud here.
I think you’d have better cooling if your put your jet in a line about a foot before the inlet of the evap core. I think that might help with the inlet getting cold as well. If you think about it that’s how it’s setup from factory with the orifice tube or expansion valve. Cool idea. I think Jeremy from faster proms channel has this on his wife’s Cadi, using the factory ac compressor.
3 lb of ice to 1 lb of salt will create negative 2° f water Dry ice, and ethanol will make negative 109° liquid For every 10 degrees Fahrenheit, you can bring down your air inlet temperature. You get 1% additional horsepower... That's not me saying that. That's Gail Banks the granddaddy of boost. There's not a lot of thermal mass in CO2 spray. It's just very cold, so use something with a lot of thermal mass and a low temperature
@@TurboJohnRacing Nah, nitrous was OG. Then people realized paying 4 bucks a lbs to spray your IC was retarded. This is where CryO2 from Design Engineering stepped in. They offer IC spray bars and a tear drop ball that goes into the charge pipe, which is refrigerated by evaporating Co2 through it. Again, the problem here isn't TEMPERATURE its BTU. Sure you can cool the ball at zero airflow but you can't keep it cold with a turbo huffing its lungs out all over the thing. Your best bet is to use a traditional Air to Water IC and cool the water using refrigeration. be it closed loop or total loss {co2 bottle purge}
I think if you cut it down like in half it would chill better and then just build it inside the cold side piping so it blows through I think youd see great gains but it looks like youd need to refill it every 5 or so passes
I was actually thinking of suck system, but using the ac lines with a boxed in radiator to prevent condensation going into the engine(as most condensation builds on the sides). Since a year passed, have you fitted it? Works ok?
The reason it’s not working all that well is because it becomes cold from “the evaporative effect”. Meaning you need to allow the liquid CO2 to become a gas as quickly as possible and to do that it needs to be vented to an expansion tank or atmosphere. You might have more luck by drilling little holes throughout the core of your condenser/intercooler. Only thing is is the CO2 would go in your intake stream and give you less O2 density, which wouldn’t help with what your trying to achieve.
Under a load it wouldn't work as well, but would definitely work some. By that I mean it will warm up very rapidly, 100 degree ambient at over 100mph. Maybe you could create a layer of frost before you use it. Great idea also I think the tank would freeze over an extended period of time. So maybe a 1/4 mile pass and wait a while. I would consider it a hybrid. Again, great idea just trying to help progress the idea.
CPS Complete Street performance. Check out this guy. He installs the interchillers. They run off the ac compressors and you can see how he tunes them with more timing and 100 extra hp offsetting any weigh increase. They are run on the street too!
Interesting experiment, but have you tried just regular compressed air? Any gas going from a compressed state to a rapid expansion will be significantly cooler
people been using ac systems with evaporator coils ,dryers and the ac pumps even the dodge demon uses it and works great and then your free from refilling co2 bottles but you do need to run the ac compressor . do like the co2 for the gas though def. alot cheaper than running no2
I thought about running the intake are threw a evaporator running on the original a/c system the problem it the do point on a humid day at the track or driving down the road it will fill the inner cooler with water potentially Hydro locking the motor or at the very least running a lot of water through it.
Because that radiator is so reflective, you might be able to get a more accurate reading from that laser thermometer if you paint the radiator black first.
Ladies and gentlemen this video shows you the type of man t john is ! Not only does he do great vids and very very knowledgeable at things lots of use wouldnt even consider like recycling oil that water or methanol soaked ir showing us exactly how to use holly hp tuners and what they mean but the man just showed us a video that has a million dollar idea and says maybe one of yall can build it if I cant! And you get it all this knowledge for free it costs nothing! Everyone this man is as good as humanity gets right there he just gave you a idea with a little work would make you not only a fast and consistent racer but possibly rich as well
Thanks man, I really appreciate it!
Perhaps you should consider a simple idea from a 3rd generation engineer thats been in the trade in Australia ( a continent that has spent 60yrs crushing anyone with a brain)
If you have a intercooler capable of holding bottle pressure you simply resirculate the liquid through a second unit A ac condensor out front and back to bottle.
The basic layout of an Automotive air con system.
Given freely rather than giving me a fat bank account that I have never had.
Good luck and happy racing friend never met.😊👍👍@TurboJohnRacing
43yrs trade life thus far.
Forgot that bit. Age showing woops.😅
If you stick a tube inside with little hole like the nitrous plate where it spread the c02 more evenly through the core it might work.
I RAN A KIT SOMETHING LIKE THIS OVER 15 YEARS AGO NOW ON SEVERAL OF MY SUBARUS. I ENDED UP USING THE NITROUS EXPRESS INTERCOOLER KIT WHEN THEY FINALLY BROUGHT THE KITS TO THE MARKET. I USED A PURGE BUTTON AND A 2 STEP SWITCH THROTTLE SWITCH SO IT WOULD SPRAY AT HALF THROTTLE UP TO FULL THROTTLE IT SPRAYED WIDE OPEN CONTINUOUS UNTIL I BACKED OUT OF THE THROTTLE OR THE BOTTLE WAS EMPTY! 😆 IT DID WORK EXTREMELY WELL AND MADE A DRASTIC DIFFERENCE IN LOWERING HIGH TEMPS. IT HELPED EVEN MORE LOWERING HIGH TEMPS ON THE FACTORY TOP MOUNTED INTERCOOLER ON ALL TURBO SUBARUS DUE TO THE FACT THAT ALL TOP MOUNTED INTERCOOLERS SOAK UP MORE HEAT FROM THE ENGINE BAY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND EVERYONE USE A SPRAY KIT ON THE INTERCOOLER OF ANY TURBO CAR STILL RUNNING A TOP MOUNT INTERCOOLER! YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT THE DIFFERENCE IN TEMPERATURE REDUCTION AND POWER GAINS AND THE BEST PART IS YOU CAN STILL USE THE SAME KIT IF&WHEN YOU DECIDE TO SWITCH OVER TO A NICER&LARGER FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER KIT ON YOUR CAR WITHOUT HAVING TO SPEND MORE MONEY OR HAVING TO BUY A COMPLETE NEW SETUP! I HOPE THIS INFORMATION MAY HELP SOMEONE OUT THERE TRYING TO DECIDE WETHER TO BUY A NOS SPRAY KIT FOR THEIR TURB CAR!
Heck , you could hook that to the ac compressor, and use it just like AC!
I was thinking the same thing!
They make interchillers which use your ac system and if the idea works that seems like a better solution hooking up a ac compressor and getting it all figured out because with different Refrigerance or different pressures you can get real cold I recently filled my 134a system with r290 (propane) and I saw as cold as 17° f air coming out of my vent while it was 100° outside
I think it's a great idea I've been thinking about using co2 in some way for years! Once this to worry about is icing the core. If it freezes over you would lose massive amounts of flow and get crazy compressor surge soon to follow
Agreeed..I think it would need sum kinda sensor that could turn system off every so often to keep things not icy
The air flow would probably stop it from getting too icy
Intake air temps are 200-600°+ degrees at times before cooled so freezing probably won't happen. You can regulate flow or use pwm to chatter the trash can solenoid. On off on off on off on off.......
Hey John. You need to make a larger outlet on the co2 core. Its the expansion of the gas that cools the core. You would want very low pressure on outlet side. Just like reading ac gauges.
Awesome man! Definitely interesting!!!
Ps it’s great your wife is out helping you!!
Every guy needs a great lady beside them!!
She is awesome!
Maybe smaller cores linked in series? Like multiple pass radiators and heat exchangers. Maybe regulate the pressure to optimize the use of gas?
pressure drop would make it non viable.
@@DieselRamcharger it doesn't drop that much.
@@vitor900000 wrong.
Diesel Ramcharger That doesn't mean it's not worth testing.
I just love the way you and Kelly interact with one another. That is fucking awesome.
She is awesome
I’ve always wanted to try this with liquid nitrogen with an air to water.
That would work 👏
90% of nitrogen storage is gaseous nitrogen and not liquid nitrogen.
Liquid Nitrogen isn't that great a coolant. It doesn't have a very high thermal capacity, nor does it have a very good thermal conductivity.
So... Liquid nitrogen may be super cold, but it doesn't last very long.
@@AmaroqStarwind neither dose 1/4 mile
I wanted to try this except for a turbo over landing setup but instead using the air conditioning system. Thank you this has given me some inspiration !!!
Awesome idea! I would get one of those cheap water\air barrel intercoolers and just make an inlet adapter to fit your co2 line and jets. As long as you get the pressure change like an ac system should work great. And I'd pipe the exhaust ac away so there's no chance of sucking it into the intake
"WHEN I GOT MY FIT'INS ON HERE"!!!! I LOVE IT BROTHER! NEVER CHANGE!
GODBLESS YOU SIR! THANKS FOR THE INFORMATIVE VIDEOS! THEY ARE ALWAYS HELPFUL TO ALL US GEARHEADS!!
I got that "slight" country twang....lol
You're the Man John; I've been thinking about this kind of intercooler for a couple of years but you're doing it. A few thoughts tho; An AC compressor weighs close the same as a tank of CO2. Your bottle will need to be refilled for every hit. You can build a compressor setup out of junkyard AC parts you probably already have. The power consumption of an AC compressor is only like 5 HP. KEEP AFTER THIS IDEA!!!
James Wolfe problem I’d see with that, just like the other chillers for SC builds, is that moisture gets leaked out and onto the track so it would only be able to be used in the pits.
@@doctordifferentialspeedsho9506. Catch Can. Sponge. Moisture's an issue with any Super Cooler for sure.
They have kits you can buy to hook up to the A/C system!
Correct, its sold under the name "Interchiller"
Forced induction interchillers. I believe the Dodge demon has a similar system in it factory
@@blindabinda1234 Yep. It can only be used for a limited time....It runs out of coldness really fast.
One of the problems is ( just like a cold drink on a hot day ) too much condensation.
Remember: Hot air has more moister, then cold air. So you end up with a lot of condensation.
@@brightstarlastname2812 Hot air has more moisture *capacity*, keep in mind charge coolers are intended to reduce the pumping heat from blower/turbo. The intake air carries a quantity of water that doesn't change from intake to cylinder, even though the relative humidity decreases as the charge is boosted the amount of water is the same. Still your point is relevant in that the amount of water is non-zero and so a charge cooler that's below freezing could ice foul.
That’s awesome man..when your going fast you have to be smart constantly thinking
They DO sell siphon tube CO2 bottles used to fill smaller bottles, red top instead of green
He's using the wrong gas... this was successfully done back in the 90s. Just the added equipment needed in racing didn't weight out. Yunick I think experiment with it.
First started out spraying water in front of the intercooler and radiators when they were trying to keep things from over heating, back in So.Cal
I would actually trying putting the jet on the outlet side so It will give it back pressure on the outlet and maybe help with the distribution of the co2 throughout the whole core. the co2 is gonna go path of rest resistance but if you put a jet in the outlet it may restrict it and keep the co2 on the outlet side a little longer making the outlet side as cold as the inlet side. just a thought
I'm going to guess you have very little experience in HVAC or refrigeration. The liquid going through a small oriface into a large area is where the phase change happens, which is what causes the cooling effect.
I guess you'd need a different transition for the inlet. It's only going to freeze the part where the liquid hits and evaporates so a cone shaped inlet or a smaller nozzle could distribute it better
The expansion valve's job is to slow the freon enough that it can fully evaporate before it exits the evaporator. So definitely restrict the exit
Doesn't work that way guys. The gas gets how when compressed and then after it loses that heat and it expands it pulls in heat from the surroundings. You need the gas to expanded inside of the core so it will draw the heat from the air going through it. He has it right. Works just like you cars A/C.
Wrong, the phase change occurs because the pressure drops. Small orifice on the inlet with no restriction on the outlet is what you want.
@@joepetreng471 a restriction on the outlet of the evaporator would not be beneficial. If anything you alter flow with something like a thermal expansion valve on the inlet side.
Is there a way you could recycle the co2 as it goes thru the core and comes out....like a continuously recycleing like a refrigerator does
The Dodge Demon does this with its AC system.
David Maudlin That's cool.
R744 is a co2 used as freon. With one of these compressors to squeeze it back into liquid form you can recover the CO2 and run through the system again it would require a heat exchanger pull the heat out of the CO2 before releasing it again
@@daviddroescher but it would work like a water to air system without all the headache of ice and draining it
@@jnltreemasters1269 as stated above it doae on the Dodge Demon. Most likely using R1234 or whatever replaced R134a.
Temps of -70°F can be seen with co2/R744 liquid to gas phase change. The jet being too big was not causing a proper phase-change, that's why the end of the tank was freezing it was getting exposed to liquid CO2.
run a tube all the way through the jet side with a small hole at every passage for more even distribution
That would be awesome thank you for sharing this. It dont seems like it would work esp if you put maybe 2 fittings on it or a tube with holes to get all the area totally cool. Like suggested from below and like you said restrict the outlet some. Wish my turbo setup was done I would try this.Thanks to you and your wife. Hope to see you in the winner's circle
@Turbo John Whenever and wherever you mount it on the vehicle, make sure the flow of c02 is from top to bottom (Such as how it was when you were using the hair dryer on it.). That way there isn't an imbalance of coolant flowing through the core.
Like you said TJ great minds think alike lol, i was working on the same concept but with fuel, always awesome to see someone else as crazy as I trying to rig up something to go fast! Keep it up
I know this is an old video but what you need to do is run the inlet wide open and put the restriction jet on the outlet side
. That should force the CO2 into more channels before it is able to exit since there will actually be some pressure created inside and it should cool the entire core down faster.
Can think of several ways to improve the system. Firstly use a different core with bigger runners. The temp difference from side to side is obviously showing a flow restriction. Secondly I would fabricate a new side feed end tank that allowed the flow to be more evenly distributed, or use a multi point injection system. I have been quietly working on this idea for several years now. Different medium but the same idea taken to another level.
Here is something I've seen done that works.
Air to Water intercooler running Evans waterless coolant. Dry Ice as the coolant. Evans temp at the intercooler 15 degrees.
It's a little more expensive to run but it sure worked.
Dry ice is CO2 (Frozen)
@@jameslowrey8419 I'm pretty sure everybody knows that.
John Parrish based on your comments it didn’t seem that you did. Sorry.
I would try putting the restriction on the outlet. Take the jet out of the inlet and put it on the outlet. Try to get as much gas in there as possible... but that is just my opinion I'm not to smart about a/c systems
This is a really COOL 🥶idea, what I will definitely try to do is to build a freon core and use the car air con system, so we do not have to buy CO2 no more! Very very great idea!👏
Use that for the intake air and funnel the co2 from the intake cooler to a cooling ring on the intercooler.
I wonder if u could run this idea on a street driven car using a air compressor like the air con in the car but with a water to air plate set up?
Something I've always wondered is when you run nitrous you add fuel, if your fuel was liquid Propane you would get the benefit of both converting to gas and dropping the temp.
I wonder if a 100 NO2 shot with the liquid propane would be enough to act as an effective intercooler.
@@MAXIMUMWEDGE Ok, I can see your issue, but I'm talking about sending it straight into the intake manifold, not to an intercooler, it would be more like Evaporative intercooling.
A 100 Shot, Plus the liquid Propane, Plus however much boost your Turbo puts out. Have the 100 Shot go active at full throttle. I think most people launch at 4000 rpm or more these days so it should be fine. It would also allow you to run a larger size turbine for reduced backpressure.
John Parrish, though not very related to this video, what you referred to is the basis of Liquid Phase Injection (LPI) of Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG - a mostly propane automotive fuel commonly available in some countries). Ford Australia did that in recent years with its EcoLPI variant of its excellent Barra 4.0L inline six cylinder engine. The LPG is electronically fuel injected into the engine in its liquid phase. It immediately turns to gas when no longer under storage pressure. Latent heat of vaporisation causes a massive drop in temperature of the intake air that the fuel is perfectly mixing with. This allows more air (and fuel) to enter the engine, producing more power & torque than the petrol (gasoline) variant does. This mild boost without any supercharging or intercooling, combined with high static compression (LPG is a high octane equivalent fuel) not only gives higher performance, but is cleaner on the environment and engine oil, and is cheaper to run too. 🚙
@@lyndongordon2518 Very interesting, I had to look the EcoLPI engine up, I had never heard of it.
I was told years ago that EFI was not possible with Liquid Propane because the injectors could not take the pressure and there would be an icing problem. It looks like the Australians solved both.
I would love to get my hands on some of these parts to see if a Universal kit could be devised to work with a Holley Terminator or FAST engine management system.
Thank You
Combine with an interchiller and run arctic level cold airflow ?
You could use No2 and let the outlet vent in the turbo inlet! Like a tiny nos shot!
stand the rad up so both the gas intake and exhaust ports are up top. CO2 and expecially the liquid CO2 is denser than air and colder gas is even denser than warm, so the liquid may puddle at the bottom and make the effect even stronger.
John i think if you had inlets on the side blowing towards middle itd be more equal. Like 3 inlets up the side
A additional exhaust line could be used for exiting co2. Have it going to a spray bar cooling the radiator or on to the intake?? cool more stuff componets .
If you buy a copper or brass core you can use plumbing solder and copper roof sheeting to solder this all with no aluminum Tig experience. Also, I agree with the liquid nitrogen idea - and I think you will have better results feeding liquid from the bottom (perhaps through an orifice) and having a large vapor exit on the other side, that's how AC systems work as you said earlier in the video.
Open one side of the evaporator coil up so it vents to atmosphere and put 3 nitrous ports on the other side of the tank instead of on the end of the tank. The end tank is saturated with dry ice, that’s why it’s so cold and staying so cold.
The only issue i can see with this is if you are in humid weather you may get ice build up and actually restrict airflow.
It’s not to bad but if you’re worried spraying the front of the inlet with something like m100 before the HX unit will automatically de-ice it or run it @ 40F~ + max cooling temperature Chevy blower cars ( ie LT4) sometimes run them as a mod and don’t have a problem with it
Man, if you haven’t applied for a patent for this, you’re crazy and better do it right now!!!
Interesting idea! I think it will work good. with the amount of hot air going though it from the turbo it would warm it up quickly as the core doesn’t have a lot of thermal mass, y’all might have to leave the co2 on the whole time your making power to keep the boost air cold
That would probably empty the tank.
I would guess there would be a large build up of condensation inside the box. There would need to be a way to gather that liquid and drain it so it doesn't go into the engine.
Someone with good tig skills needs to build an enclosure and run a true test on this setup! It would take some trial and error, but I’m sure you could pre cool it during the burnout and just let it run until the end of the pass as long as you have the right jet size in it. I would imagine a co2 mother bottle is much cheaper than a nitrous mother bottle.
As someone mentioned what if you ran your AC condenser line into the intercooler and back out to the compressor to continuously run AC refrigerant through it? Be like having two condensers on your AC system but would greatly cool your intercooler too... if I’m thinking correctly on how that works?
Stand it up and put a trans cooler on it with a shroud. then measure the ambient air entering vs. the air exiting though a 3" tube.
Great concept!! Insta a/c!! I also have an idea that uses a small DC a/c compressor
half that size, put a pressure release on the outflow, drop small tank into waterchiller tank, open the bottle before run, exit pressure release valve will hold the co2 at pressure you set, then it warms up after a few minutes run your pressure release purge valve on exit side to cycle fresh co2 into core to rechill it.
co2 is heavier than air, so the co2 stays in the core even without a exit plug, and as it warms it pushes out, keeping it cold for much longer than valve was open
I am thinking to put a tee in the line and plumb into both sides at the bottom. Jet it at half the size of the one you had .
Also thinking you could stack two of them in line to really chill the incoming charge
you could use butane or propane too. i wonder if you could use the lpg system in a car to cool the air
i know you posted this a couple weeks ago, but perhaps youll still see it.
High pressure CO2 is being used in new high end cars for the AC system. The first one (AFAIK) is the new Audi A8. Its been a theory for quite a few years but has such a high operating pressure it has some issues. The good thing about CO2 is it is not flammable and it is not an ozone damaging gas.
What im getting at is, if you want to get wild with it and wanted to use it for road racing, you could find out what type of pump theyre using in automotive AC and recirculate the gas.
Interesting, I did not know that
I think the problem with this will be condensation entering into the air system. Maybe even a freeze up in the intercooler if the air gets cold enough and you can't get rid of the moister in the resulting air flow. Probably not an option for a diesel engine even if it doesn't freeze up because of that. However, placing that directly in a cowl in front of the intercooler would still be an option for short runs.
I've always wanted to use a miniature 12 volt water chiller, the ones that look like a miniature air conditioner to cool the intercooler water.
Hmmm, those look interesting
hell yeah brother!! I may borrow your idea!!! thank you!
If the core could handle full pressure you could leave the bottle on and just have a valve on the vent side possibly with a restrictor for more efficient cooling kinda like when you spray an aerosol can for a while and it gets cold
You should stand it vertical with the inlet tank of the core on the bottom. That way the liquid CO2 will cool the core evenly. That is why the bottom of the core was colder than the top. Also it will probably work better with the outlet being bigger. You will have a problem with the core freezing up and restricting airflow too if you let it get below freezing. That is why water to air ICs work better.
It is a Great concept. I would put a pressure relief valve on the open side, this way heat will expand and the pressure valve would release. then create some type of air box to force the air thru the center of the core and it should act like a air to water design. without the weight of water. i would try a 100psi valve this way the co2 stay liquid
Feed it co2 from all 4 corners or at 2 corners from opposing sides! Wonder if you could get a pump for recovery!
Question, so why not just spray the CO2 directly onto the intercooler?
maybe on outlet side use a relief valve so it will regulate pressure inside...your definitely on to something there
Your going through a lot of work and theres already a better solution out there. Look up interchiller on google. It uses the oem AC system too chill a water loop for a A2W. No big slushbox in the trunk needed, small front mount res works better in this application (less time for the ambient air too warm the supercooled coolant) and this can net well below sub ambient IAT temps.
So what your saying is to use it in a air to water intercooler and run it as a air to air ?
yes, use an air/water intercooler and spray the c02 in core instead of the water. Richard Holdner did a test, but he did it a little different than I would have done it.
Try to restrict the exit of the gas, might help
One inlet on the top and bottom of the core would balance it nicely
I'm considering buying a barrel style water to air cooler and installing it between the intercooler and throttle body but instead of circulating water i would get adapter fittings to circulate CO2 instead. I dont have a highly modified car but I do get spark knock when Im doing a few rips around town here in Phoenix AZ during the 115 degree summer days lol so I need something to help with heat soak. Not something i would use daily but i like the idea of having cold air on demand for those spontaneous rips. If results are affective I'll add another one between the intake filter and turbo to help with turbo cooling.
I've always thought about doing this with liquid nitrogen. what you would do is you would fill the evaporator with liquid nitrogen on one end with a purge valve on the other but also a relief valve and at a certain pressure. It would relieve it because I would no longer be cold enough. And automatically refill from a bottle. You'd have to put some safeties in the system like an automatic shut-off valve... On your intake track because if you got liquid nitrogen in your engine that would be really bad.
Interesting
Great idea. You managed 100DegF differential. That's a proven idea right there.
Some AC units use propane as refrigerant, it can be cancerous if damaged, but it works! That should work well, for a full race setup along with a air to air intercooler, for normal use, put that in a kinda diamond shaped box between radiator and throttle body, maybe put a valve on the outlet to regulate flow! And there you go pulling -70° air!!
Propane is not a carcinogen. Refrigerant charges are relatively low anyways and a leak that could coexist during operation would have to be darn small or else no operation at all
Maybe run it off a Full Throttle Switch so it kicks on during the run only, And a purge button to "Pre-cool" it after burnout!
If you get some kind of condensation along the core while the intake charge passes through, would it be somewhat dangerous for water being carried by the charge and entering your cylinders?
I kinda imagined this scenario with a air to water intercooler setup if for some bad luck the turbo impeller blades break off and hit the core fins and cause water to leak out and get sucked in the cylinders. Just thinking out loud here.
How much pressure is an evaporator core good for?
Could do an intake pipe to the throttle body with the same process so the air has no time to warm up
I think you’d have better cooling if your put your jet in a line about a foot before the inlet of the evap core. I think that might help with the inlet getting cold as well. If you think about it that’s how it’s setup from factory with the orifice tube or expansion valve. Cool idea. I think Jeremy from faster proms channel has this on his wife’s Cadi, using the factory ac compressor.
Thank you
Maybe use two of these in series, paralled for flow, so it gets extra time to cool the air! As long as it don't freeze up it would be, well COOL!
3 lb of ice to 1 lb of salt will create negative 2° f water
Dry ice, and ethanol will make negative 109° liquid
For every 10 degrees Fahrenheit, you can bring down your air inlet temperature. You get 1% additional horsepower... That's not me saying that. That's Gail Banks the granddaddy of boost.
There's not a lot of thermal mass in CO2 spray. It's just very cold, so use something with a lot of thermal mass and a low temperature
i feel like I've stepped into a time machine and its 1995 again......You know this was popular on the imports 25 years ago, right?
They used to blow nitrous across an a/a intercooler is what I saw. This is completely different.
@@TurboJohnRacing Nah, nitrous was OG. Then people realized paying 4 bucks a lbs to spray your IC was retarded. This is where CryO2 from Design Engineering stepped in. They offer IC spray bars and a tear drop ball that goes into the charge pipe, which is refrigerated by evaporating Co2 through it. Again, the problem here isn't TEMPERATURE its BTU. Sure you can cool the ball at zero airflow but you can't keep it cold with a turbo huffing its lungs out all over the thing. Your best bet is to use a traditional Air to Water IC and cool the water using refrigeration. be it closed loop or total loss {co2 bottle purge}
@@TurboJohnRacing Hell, they still make it. www.extremepsi.com/store/images/d_1076.jpg
@@TurboJohnRacing in this day and age you want power. you run a modern turbo at big cfm {relatively} low pressure levels with E85. Voila!
I think if you cut it down like in half it would chill better and then just build it inside the cold side piping so it blows through I think youd see great gains but it looks like youd need to refill it every 5 or so passes
I was actually thinking of suck system, but using the ac lines with a boxed in radiator to prevent condensation going into the engine(as most condensation builds on the sides). Since a year passed, have you fitted it? Works ok?
The reason it’s not working all that well is because it becomes cold from “the evaporative effect”. Meaning you need to allow the liquid CO2 to become a gas as quickly as possible and to do that it needs to be vented to an expansion tank or atmosphere. You might have more luck by drilling little holes throughout the core of your condenser/intercooler. Only thing is is the CO2 would go in your intake stream and give you less O2 density, which wouldn’t help with what your trying to achieve.
Isnt the Hellcats intercooler cooled by the car Air conditioner much like this?
Yes
Under a load it wouldn't work as well, but would definitely work some. By that I mean it will warm up very rapidly, 100 degree ambient at over 100mph. Maybe you could create a layer of frost before you use it. Great idea also I think the tank would freeze over an extended period of time. So maybe a 1/4 mile pass and wait a while. I would consider it a hybrid. Again, great idea just trying to help progress the idea.
Nitrous is colder isn't it? The only problem I see with that one is that I'm not sure that particular "radiator" would flow enough air.
Maybe use a pwm output In the Holley to pulse it so it’s not constant
How much would a 50-100 shot of nitrous introduced early in the charge pipe cool it?
I may be able to do something with your idea I have access to all kinds of stuff being a Hvac guy . The wheels are turning thanks TJ
Yes, let me know what you figure out. Since your back ground is HVAC, you could make this work I'm sure.
Try a closed loop with an aquarium pump.
Scotty cannon did this in Pro Mod years ago!
Oh wow! Nice
@@TurboJohnRacing I’ll try to find the video of him talking about it
CPS Complete Street performance. Check out this guy. He installs the interchillers. They run off the ac compressors and you can see how he tunes them with more timing and 100 extra hp offsetting any weigh increase. They are run on the street too!
Cool concept. Would be probably best if it was a narrow long strip. It seems like the liquid is going to the bottom corner then across.
Maybe, it would have to be tested.
Interesting experiment, but have you tried just regular compressed air? Any gas going from a compressed state to a rapid expansion will be significantly cooler
I have not, good idea
I seen a,guy make an intake box for a all motor build .. he made slats inside of it and put dry ice in it ...
Nice
It would be awesome to have a temp sensor that would have it turn on automatically when intake temps go up
people been using ac systems with evaporator coils ,dryers and the ac pumps even the dodge demon uses it and works great and then your free from refilling co2 bottles but you do need to run the ac compressor . do like the co2 for the gas though def. alot cheaper than running no2
I thought about running the intake are threw a evaporator running on the original a/c system the problem it the do point on a humid day at the track or driving down the road it will fill the inner cooler with water potentially Hydro locking the motor or at the very least running a lot of water through it.
Should turn c02 on while the hair dryer is running
John great idea im surprised you didnt dyno test that
It would be cool to see a jet and all four corners my guess is you would have a block ice pretty damn quick