For the longest time, I thought about half of the nails I bought were defective, with the point and/or the head on the wrong end. It took me forever to realize they were for the other side of the house.
Not surprised. Retired tool and fastener salesman. Probably 75% to 80% of the contractors I sold to were hacks. The old 80/20 rule strikes again. The rest were golden. Find your local suppliers. Make friends with them. DO NOT ASK THIS QUESTION WITH OTHER CUSTOMERS AROUND. When they get to know you a bit, and you're alone, ask who the best contractors are. We know.
35yr veteran of construction and always value your insite and wisdom . I hope our younger population is listening and paying attention to your videos because it is valuable information.
Daddy learnt me to drive nails many years ago, I got a little brad nail gun and it was great for little projects in the shop, some trim here and there, got a finish nail gun, it was great, when I got the framing nail gun, a Bostich he was like, you dont need that, till he seen me using it over head and nailing stuff that was a pain with a hammer, he changed his mind real quick, although the palm nailer almost did him in, I told him to put the nail in the snout of it, and then press it where you want to nail, and push, well first time he pushed the nail in the snout a bit to hard, that palm nailer shot it out, just missing his head, he learnt after that, great in tight spaces, sure miss them times with him, thanks for the great vids Scott
If you are paid by hour its good to do it with hammer, if you are paid for the project then its better to use nail gun. hahah, Nah, its always better to use a tool that will make your life easier and faster, so you still have some energy to spend in your private life.
My grandfather was a carpenter, he built subdivisions in Chicago, had a truss factory. When my fathers house burned down in 1976 we rebuilt it. Sheetrock screws had just come out. We used plywood gussets and resin glue on the trusses, big spans. Over the years a lot of those screws snapped under snow loads. Brittle. Had to repair and reinforce those trusses. Modern screws are better, but now I'm always aware of metal fatigue and use screws to pull tight, but then also use plenty of big ductile nails. One of my pet peaves is when I find where someone used roofing nails in a joist hanger. I have always collected hammers, back in the 90s I discovered the Japanese Dogyu. It is by far my favorite when hand driving.
Drywall screws are great I've used hunreds of pounds of them but would never use them as wood connectors, they aren't water proof, too brittle as you say.
"When comparing shear strength, nails generally have significantly more shear strength than screws; meaning nails are better at resisting sideways forces, while screws are better at handling pulling forces (tensile strength) due to their threads that grip the wood more effectively. Nails can bend slightly under pressure from the side, allowing them to absorb lateral forces without snapping, making them ideal for applications where side-to-side stress is high, like framing a house. Screws, with their rigid design, are more likely to break when subjected to significant shear force, as they lack the flexibility of nails to bend and accommodate lateral pressure."
Residual strength after a screw starts pulling out is close to zero on a nail there still is some strength in the connection because it hasn't shared the wood fibers when it started to fail.
I’ve loved your channel since day one. You remind me of my first boss, Norris “Doc” Houk. He taught me so much and remains a hero of mine today. More than just carpentry, but about the value and catharsis of work, manhood and life in general. I’ll always remember him fondly. At 15:55, I absolutely love the mention of Larry Haun. His books "The Very Efficient Carpenter" and "Framing Roofs: with Larry Haun" were game changers for me as a young journeyman carpenter. He's truly a legend. Thanks for the warm memories.
I'm an engineer. The first thing one of the better professors told the class, "Your job is to determine what's good enough." Then he showed us the money/quality/speed triangle.
as a business, yes. time is money. if you're building something yourself, screws will outperform nails most every time. none of us have the time to determine if something is just good enough so overbuilding is better. my roof makes a really loud popping noise in the sun in my office in the mornings due to thermal expansion, so good enough isn't really just good enough. screws aren't really that much more expensive than nails, but you won't ever find a roofing company out there screwing a deck on your home these days.
For the longest time, I thought about half of the nails I bought were defective, with the point and/or the head on the wrong end. It took me forever to realize they were for the other side of the house.
Yep, Time and money. That's why, nails and pinning them with nail guns is a faster way to join wood than screws and drivers. And when a house requires thousands or tens of thousands, it adds up quickly. Great video as always !!
We don't know what the penny in penny nail means in Canada. At least for the 50 years I was a carpenter. Before nailers we had 3 1/2" and 4" Spikes in common, ardox (twisted shank) and galvanized form. We used 1 1/2" up to 2 1/2" common for sheathing, underlay and bridging of joists and an array of finish nails for finish. No pennies! Always knew about it but never understood it. From 72 to 80 or so all you heard on a building site was saws and hammers. A wonderful sound that's hard to describe unless you experience it. I could tell by the sound of the tools who was working on what without looking up. Every carpenter had a sound of their own when hammering. Something about building a house start to finish with just a hammer. When the nailers appeared I was one of the lucky ones who didn't shoot themselves in the first 6 months. Mostly in the leg! But you get in tune with it, and accurate and it's the only way now. Cheers 🇨🇦
Canadian engineer here. I still don’t fully understand the penny designation. I wish we would just call it what it is, diameter! It’s a 16mm bolt, so why not call it a 3mm nail? And don’t get me started on gauge!
When I was a kid, my cousins and I spent a lot of time at my maternal grandparents house. My grandfather had lived through the depression and fought in WWII, he kept everything LOL. As kids we would be tasked at pulling nails out of chunks of 2x4. He had a couple of 5gallon buckets full of old nails, he’d pay us a nickel or a dime to first straighten the nails, then sort through them. Back then you could buy a fair bit of candy at the corner store for a dime 😊 He also had an old chunk of wood and he’d let us drive nails into that chunk of wood as long as we wanted to. Fond memories, and yes I have an air nailer, but I can also drive nails! Cheers from Tokyo!
My old boss, who taught me years ago, made me hammer nails until I learned where to place them properly and how not to split things. You have a better feel for the harder softer and grains of wood when hand nailing. And I still do it sometimes, just easier on small jobs .
There's so many things regarded as simple enough it doesnt need to be taught and so we all go through life acting as if we always knew that. Thanks to you there's alot of important details I actually do know now
On our first home renovation, I hand nailed crown molding and trim details. Then I got a brad nailer and compressor. The difference in quality, precision, and ease of installation was tremendous. I’d never go back.
My how things have changed. When I first started, we were finishing apartments in Nebraska with pre finished oak trim. Had to pre drill for the 6d nails otherwise it would split. Now everything is guns. So much easier. I know a lumber yard that still sells loose nails from a bin into a paper bag if you're only buying a pound or two. Real "Old School". Learned a trick while building a Cedar Deck that at the end of the day, if you wet down the deck before you leave, any hammer marks will swell up and no more hammer marks to be seen tomorrow morning.
The neighbor's house in the 70's was built with spiral nails. Sort of the best of both worlds. They are nails with a square cross section but twisted about 4 turns every 3 inches. Then of course there are ring-shank nails I find on pallets all the time.
My first teacher didn't let me use a nail gun. Everything we built we drove by hand. Took longer but now that I am on my own it's nice to be able to have that skill. It does take longer for framing if you don't use the gun but there is no substitute for form work. I've worked on form jobs where all they used was screws and I had to bite my tongue and finish the job as best I can. The foreman was a civil engineer and had never used a skill saw before, the man almost cut off his fingers on a daily basis. Nothing blew but that bridge will need to be refinished within 5 year. Sad. I cannot wait until I can run my own show. There is more I need to learn but man I've got some ideas I'd love to implement into the industry. Thank you for the content from Ontario Canada. You have been a big influence in my pursuit of knowledge and experience in the construction industry.
Nails are softer than screw for the most part which means they are more resistant to stress. Screws shear off & nails don’t (unless they’re expensive structural screws). Both have their place..but when it comes to production, you cannot beat nailing.
Doesn’t that mean that the nails just fail in a different way? Instead of a catastrophic failure, like a screw snapping, the nail just bends so that it’s no longer holding both pieces in the same place as they were before the shear stress was applied. That kind of silent, insidious failure doesn’t seem great to me. Maybe it’s less problematic in certain scenarios.
"I know what I like, and I like what I know." Inflexible thinking limits opportunities, and the inability fix and move on from mistakes also holds one back.
I work for a custom home builder, and I make framing changes when necessary. If a stud is twisted or we have to add something in, I find screws to be life saving. Screw guns will fit where nail guns won't and screws draw very well. GRKs specifically are amazing and you need a metal cutting sawzall blade to cut them since they are made of a high quality steel. But they are also significantly more expensive so when I frame larger things I use a 16 gun unless I need to draw the board in.
Honestly anyone who definitively states X is superior to Y or vise versa probably isn’t well versed in construction technology. Each has strengths and weaknesses, even within their own type. When I was early in my construction career I had an older engineer enlighten me about why we use both. For example, why, from an engineering point of view was it better to use a power actuated framing nailer with framing nails to assemble a stick built wall vs 3.5 inch screws…. The nails are tempered such that they have flex and aren’t brittle. They handle the stresses of assembly much better than screws which tend to be of a higher temper. Meaning the nails will bend a little to absorb stresses that would snap a screw. That’s just one example. I think what separates the top 5% of contractors/carpenters/tradesmen from the bottom 95% is an aptitude AND willingness to learn about your trade and the other trades around you. Instead of complaining about the inspector or the engineer I learned to get on their good side by asking them relevant questions about the project or building technology and picked their brain for useful knowledge. And in most cases they also would develop a mutual respect. I call that a win/win.
funny you should mention this now.... I am just finishing up a garden shed that is 'your fault'. Between you and Larry Haun you made me think I can do it, so I did it. However, it is all screwed together (I did have to buy an impact driver for that), partly because I have no nail guns, and partly because the entire structure is intended to be taken down and moved in a year or two. 8x12', 2x4 frame, covered in IBR sheeting. Just storage, so doesn't need more than that, no insulation needed since it is under shade trees. One more coat of paint tomorrow and it is done. I havn't used a nail in years, I dislike them since I am more of a cabinet maker than a carpenter, so maybe that comes into it too. But, the right nail in the right place does have a place in construction. We recently had our roof replaced, no nail guns, just screws and hand hammered nails, takes a while for technology to get to South Africa.
Mt grandfather was a carpenter. I'm not sure exactly when he started, probably the late 50s or early 60s. He passed in the late 80s. He could pretty much do it all. My mom still has the blueprints and the materials list for the house that my mom and dad built in the late 70s that he drew up. He did everything from the foundation to the roofing. And the plumbing. He could build custom cabinets if you had the money for that. I know he did finish work, too. I never saw much of that, though. I kick myself in the tail every day for not working with him and learning the trade when I was a young man. He was a little difficult to work with, though. 😂 He pretty much worked alone. My uncles even said that they couldn't work with him. A missed opportunity for me and a lot of knowledge lost when he passed away.
My Dad was like that. Great Master Craftsman. Built his retirement home in the ‘70’s or early’’80’s. He could build anything, right. I wanted to work with him so badly and to learn from him, but just as you said, he couldn’t or I think wouldn’t teach me. He worked alone most of the time. On construction jobs he worked faster and better than everyone else. He was invaluable
Amen. RIP Larry. Just for s and g I build my retirement house with GRK screws. Well those parts that aren’t mortised and tendons. The crew was constantly wondering why I was spending so much on fasteners. I didn’t tell them that my timber frame was built to float when the world floods again. That way they won’t come knocking when their houses wash away. Can’t say I didn’t show them how it’s done.
Now mind you, this is just my personal opinion. Working in So Cal, and in a seismic environment, I have seen old work that has stood for many years. Evidence of nailing being pulled out and then slipping right back in is evident. Is this a bad thing? What if that joint was screwed? Too rigid? Would the joint or fastener fail? I believe a certain amount of give within a joint will accumulate over the entirety of the structure. Allowing the building to be more fluid during earthquakes. This is why "I believe" nails are still used to this day.
Scott's "screwing" around on Saturday, and "pitching" the pluses and minuses of each fastener, and I for one can't wait to follow this "thread" and see the comments. I'm sure no matter what the outcome, Scott will hit the nail on the head and provide us with his unique perspective. In for a "penny", in for a "pound".
I’ve often wondered . . . More important: Am I using the fasteners correctly? In general, both nails and screws are intended to hold things together. They’re not intended to carry loads. Whenever you frame something, ask if it would remain together if all the nails and screws magically disappeared. If they won’t, you’ve a bad design. Am I fastening something that will later be removed? Better use screws. THANK YOU for the primer on the types and uses of nails. I think every box store ought to have a poster up explaining these details.
I used screws to replace a sub floor in one room, ive got another room to do. What kind of nails would you use for sub floors. Its an old house that had tongue and groove floors.
Someone once told me that nails can be better than screws because they're not hardened. They can bend where a more hardened screw might snap. The idea is that a house built of screws can lose critical strength if a screw breaks. Don't know if that's true.
Im doing work on my 1940 home studs are toed with 20 p nail. Those things don't like coming out. im actually surprised how they didn't spit more studs with them.
In New Zealand the metric sizes would be as follows: 4 penny = 40mm, 5 penny = 45mm, 6 penny = 50mm, 7 penny = 60mm, 8 penny = 65mm, 16 penny = 90mm, 20 penny = 100mm & the 8 inch spike = 200mm. These are obviously approximate, it's what we would ask for in a hardware store. The 16 penny (90mm) is for framing and I would, as a D.I.Yer use 5-6 penny (45mm-50mm) for base boards or as we call them skirting boards, window sills, window & door casings. We have a late 1950's house and while pulling walls down, non structural, I've come across having to pull 6 inch (150mm) nails that broke a sweat lol. Other than 90mm & 50mm for the nail gun I tend to keep 40mm & 60mm they come in handy sometimes.
Interesting that you only seem to use round (aka French) nails. For hand nailing I've probably used more oval nails than rounds in my 50+ year working life here in the UK. I get what you say about nailers, though, although compressed air nailers have been frowned on for a long time over here, meaning that any "chippy" worthy of the name has one or more gas or (more recently) cordless nailers in his or her kit. We are only just starting to see the more widespread usage of PPN (positive placement nailers) her - one sticking point being the cost of the collated twist nails along with the high price of the guns - but once you show site managers how much faster a nail gun is than hand nailing most become converts
I love all things construction, but the videos you make that I have binge watched are the jordan peterson type of Wadsworth videos u put out,keep em coming,all men need advise, good advise. Thank you Sir.
We use nails for shear strength. When I do decks, and I am attaching band board to the joists. I use two screws but I use a nail in the middle. Do I need to? Probably not, but I know it will protect from lateral movement.
nails are usually considered better for the most part in framing because of their ability to give just a little under extreme stress. On the other hand screws can be more prone to shearing or snapping under powerful and sudden forces as a house's framing might experienced during an earthquake.
Which is why you need to be sure you set them right in the first place - because trying to dismantle stuff which has been ring nailed can be pure hell. I just wish I could get some architects and site managers (GCs) to understand this when they specify ring nails - then change their minds about what they want
The finish nail is still a superior nail for it's unmatched holding power, compared to a finish nail gun which always has less holding power, because of the rapid nail insertion that tends to tear out the wood fibers, pared with a small or slight head, will not pull down that finish board to seat it in its place. The hand driven finish nail will pull the board down tight and keep it there.
I stopped using common nails 40 years or more. Ardox, or more commonly called spiral, are my go to,The only time common were used were in the nail gun and even then sooner rather than later were replaced with spiral. Try an pull a spiral nail some time. They are faster to put in than screw and just as good at gripping an pulling parts together, let alone the cross section is way larger than any screw and stronger(as they are generally heat treated up here, Canada). The only spot screws get used is sub flooring. Even then there is adhesive used. As I used to say as a general saying "it was glued screws and tattooed".
Screws Vs. Nails: Screws rely mostly on compressive forces to clamp a joint and are permanently locking but brittle. Nails generally are there to handle shear loads and are "tough as nails" as in they deform rather than snap. If you want to hold a steel bracket on a wall use a screw, if you want to build a wall and have it handle movement like a earthquake or high wind event use a nail. Also Nails are cheaper and easier to install and have far better corrosion resistance with hot dip coatings. I've switched back to galvanized nails on all my deck jobs due to corrosion eating the green screws in as little as 5 years.
I would have to say one thing is sheer strength I believe it's called. You know how many times you can bend over a nail before it snaps. Hit a screw one time and it snaps. Also the skyscrapers at New York City sway several feet back and forth at the top. Engineers don't try to build to defeat that with a more solid rigid structure. Same with nails they at every nail joint allow for small movement. Screws wouldn't do as much of that. Plus I haven't seen an automatic screw nailer. The workers themselves might go on strike if they were forced to use screws everywhere.
I used Simpson strong ties to reinforce my finished basement stair treads. Whenever they finished my basement they didn't replace the stairs for stringer stairs and left the 80s and earlier dado slot stairs where the treads slightly fit in and are nailed through the side "stringer". The treads over time we're coming out of the dados and the construction adhesive it looks like they added before finishing the stairs was cracking. So I opted for Simpson strong tie brackets that I cut to fit and used Simpson bolts and those stairs aren't going anywhere. I saved the cutoffs to use for the kickers and will use the Simpson bolts for the "stringer" side and I'll use wood screws for the kicker side because it's thin. Maybe it won't add strength but I have the same amount of cutoffs as I used on the tread so why not add some shear strength lol. And I already have the Simpson bolts. So what the heck lol. These brackets were designed to be the sole thing holding the tread to the side stringer so regardless of whatever strength the stairs had I know only have to worry about the "stringer" attached to the foundation wall coming away lol.
the issue i find with screws is going back years later to fix something. you don't always have access to the screw head, like say it has been plastered over by cement board and stucco, or you're working on the frame of a shower in a crawlspace that was framed in externally. personally i do prefer screws to nails though, but disassembling a nailed together piece versus a screwed together piece is a completely different task, sometimes impossible.
I learned square cut nails have more surface contact with wood and strongest nail. But sheer strength can hold with a nail, but not a screw. Then there are lag and structural screws which have the strength of a nail but the non-permability of a screw.
Ive been building for nearly 30 years. The only thing i use nails for is trim, cabinets, or small components that i want to hide fasteners or need to be able to remove later. Ive built and repaired well over 1000 decks. Ive repaired only a few that had issues with screws, typically they sheared off due to not enough fasteners. With today's technology there is no reason to use nails for structural purposes. Nails cause more failures than any other connection. Most of the time its from wood shrinkage or rot. I think the code is behind on this. My personal belief is to pay the extra 10% cost (average price on decks, fences, framing) and get more than double the lifespan. Labor cost way more than materials, to spend an extra $500 for your 800 sqft deck is negligible for most homeowners. Especially when new construction is falling apart in under 5 years. Screws and nails are a cry once kind of idea in my opinion. I prefer to pay up front for the quality and know its going to last. Ive only met a few people willing to go as absolutely cheap as possible when they fully understood the differences. Backyard fences and decks are hands down my favorite examples. I just wont do it that cheap. My phone rings when the customers want new projects, not call backs to put more nails in.
I always understood nails are better at resisting shear forces (less brittle) and screws resist pulling out for obvious reasons. We're subject to 100mph (160kph) gusts in the fall and after losing my porch roof I rebuilt it with screws.
You forgot one of the biggest things about nails vs screws, which is, in general, nails aren't as hard/brittle and can bend as wood moves, so if there's going to be wood movement, a nail will allow it and screw won't.
I'm pretty sure nails still exist because construction guys LOVE driving nails with their hammers (tbf it is super satisfying). Its therapy for them so the practice persists...
Would a house that's put together with screws be more robust, keep straighter/plumb lines over decades, more resilient to earth tremors, earth movement, etc?
You are asking for two different things. Stronger means more brittle. The screwed house would hold plumb better, but where nails would flex screws will snap. Practically speaking it's the wood that flexes the most, so they shouldn't have too large a difference, while the screws snapping is a real concern, the range between an event that will snap the screw, but not cause a nailed structure to fail is Extremely thin. So at the end of the day it's a cost concern. If you are building one house it doesn't matter, do it however you want. Buying a nail gun and compressor is more expensive than the increased cost of screws. If you are building a hundred houses? get the nails.
I think I heard once that nails are stronger than screws. I figure if you want to take stuff apart use screws, if you never want to disassemble it use nails. Can't imagine taking a house apart unless its junk, unless it's a temporary house like a hard sided hunting camp that is assembled every year(unusual for sure).
I never minded driving nails by hand but, don't stay around me while I'm hammering. Because I have a big problem with hanging on to the hammer. It always goes flying. So, when the air nailers came out they have been my friend. I still haven't figured out what is the problem with my hands.
A screw is always better then a nail. A screw also has a certain shear moment just like a nail, you just have to choose the screw with the right diameter. Plus a screw will pull materials together and can't pulled out, and a nail can. That is the biggest disadvantage of a nail. And I think that is one of the biggest reasons American houses blow apart in strong winds. Look at Japanese houses, they also have a wooden base but they screw it together instead of nailing. They only use nails for the parts of the house that aren't constructionally important. Nailing and not screwing because it is cheaper isn't a good reason in my opinion because you want a strong solid house for your client and not only a cheap house.
Different mentality in Japan and they had the disposable income to pay for a much longer build. They build fewer houses than in N America. Add their earthquake building codes and you have a different beast than here. Contrast that with what I saw last week in Toronto: non English speaking asians assembling flat-pack stairs onsite with small L-brackets and short screws?!? People need to walk on stairs, they’re not decorative!!! 🤡 Anyways they left in a hurry as we brought in solid oak quality built winders. I took a lot of pictures because 😳 I had no words. Watch who builds your home folks. ❤
3in = 10d 3-1/4 = 12d 3-1/2 = 16d I think the confusion started when inspector's began demanding heavier shaft nails. So a 12d with a 16d shaft became a "16d" which only causes confusion. Proper term is 12d, 130 shank. Then we would be calling nails by what the manufacturer's actually call them.
Screws don't break before nails pull out or wood gives way. It's efficiency that keeps nails in the trade. They're not the best, but good enough for the common folk.
I don't know how someone could think that a nail gun is somehow inferior. A nail gun put the nail in in one shot without any wallering out of the hold or bending. I don't drive many nails in my line of work, but I have a lot of fencing staples that are needed. I recently sprung for the Milwaukee fencing staple gun and that works so much better. The staples go in cleanly in once shot without any bending and they tend to hold better in my opinion. My old hammer gathers dust no and my arm feels a lot better.
Well, I am at the age where skills,and usefulness have declined a lot! I remember clearly when driving a box (50#) of 16s a day was the mark of a carpenter....They were about $15 a box. I hated the old black glue covered sinkers! I still can't accept buying those little boxes of nails (at about $6/lb,) instead of grabbing them out of a bin (at $0.29/lb)! I guess I am a victim of "confirmation bias"? I bought my first nail guns (all Hilti ) back in 1980. I still have those, but I can't get any parts for them. I noticed your hammer was marked "Ruger". Is that the same as the gun company? I still favor my Plumb fiberglass over all others. They have held up the best!
Whoever built my house used nails, but still managed to screw it up
Nailed it!
The best comment! 😂😂😂
For the longest time, I thought about half of the nails I bought were defective, with the point and/or the head on the wrong end. It took me forever to realize they were for the other side of the house.
Hahaha! 😂
Not surprised. Retired tool and fastener salesman. Probably 75% to 80% of the contractors I sold to were hacks. The old 80/20 rule strikes again. The rest were golden. Find your local suppliers. Make friends with them. DO NOT ASK THIS QUESTION WITH OTHER CUSTOMERS AROUND. When they get to know you a bit, and you're alone, ask who the best contractors are. We know.
35yr veteran of construction and always value your insite and wisdom . I hope our younger population is listening and paying attention to your videos because it is valuable information.
we are! grateful for this channel
Daddy learnt me to drive nails many years ago, I got a little brad nail gun and it was great for little projects in the shop, some trim here and there, got a finish nail gun, it was great, when I got the framing nail gun, a Bostich he was like, you dont need that, till he seen me using it over head and nailing stuff that was a pain with a hammer, he changed his mind real quick, although the palm nailer almost did him in, I told him to put the nail in the snout of it, and then press it where you want to nail, and push, well first time he pushed the nail in the snout a bit to hard, that palm nailer shot it out, just missing his head, he learnt after that, great in tight spaces, sure miss them times with him, thanks for the great vids Scott
If you are paid by hour its good to do it with hammer, if you are paid for the project then its better to use nail gun. hahah, Nah, its always better to use a tool that will make your life easier and faster, so you still have some energy to spend in your private life.
Probably just me but this episode has vibes of a more early / old school Essential Craftsman video. Love it
UA-cam in my case has always been great for learning.
My grandfather was a carpenter, he built subdivisions in Chicago, had a truss factory. When my fathers house burned down in 1976 we rebuilt it. Sheetrock screws had just come out. We used plywood gussets and resin glue on the trusses, big spans. Over the years a lot of those screws snapped under snow loads. Brittle. Had to repair and reinforce those trusses. Modern screws are better, but now I'm always aware of metal fatigue and use screws to pull tight, but then also use plenty of big ductile nails. One of my pet peaves is when I find where someone used roofing nails in a joist hanger. I have always collected hammers, back in the 90s I discovered the Japanese Dogyu. It is by far my favorite when hand driving.
Drywall screws are great I've used hunreds of pounds of them but would never use them as wood connectors, they aren't water proof, too brittle as you say.
"When comparing shear strength, nails generally have significantly more shear strength than screws; meaning nails are better at resisting sideways forces, while screws are better at handling pulling forces (tensile strength) due to their threads that grip the wood more effectively. Nails can bend slightly under pressure from the side, allowing them to absorb lateral forces without snapping, making them ideal for applications where side-to-side stress is high, like framing a house. Screws, with their rigid design, are more likely to break when subjected to significant shear force, as they lack the flexibility of nails to bend and accommodate lateral pressure."
This is why if you've ever installed a safety hook up on the roof, you'll notice it says in bold NAILS ONLY!
I was surprised he didn't really discuss this. It's a critical distinction
Residual strength after a screw starts pulling out is close to zero on a nail there still is some strength in the connection because it hasn't shared the wood fibers when it started to fail.
Nails bend, screws break. Just what I thought, besides speed and costs.😊
Yep
I’ve loved your channel since day one. You remind me of my first boss, Norris “Doc” Houk. He taught me so much and remains a hero of mine today. More than just carpentry, but about the value and catharsis of work, manhood and life in general. I’ll always remember him fondly.
At 15:55, I absolutely love the mention of Larry Haun. His books "The Very Efficient Carpenter" and "Framing Roofs: with Larry Haun" were game changers for me as a young journeyman carpenter. He's truly a legend. Thanks for the warm memories.
I'm an engineer. The first thing one of the better professors told the class, "Your job is to determine what's good enough." Then he showed us the money/quality/speed triangle.
Like the Sales triangle where you can have any 2 of the 3 but never all 3?
as a business, yes. time is money. if you're building something yourself, screws will outperform nails most every time. none of us have the time to determine if something is just good enough so overbuilding is better. my roof makes a really loud popping noise in the sun in my office in the mornings due to thermal expansion, so good enough isn't really just good enough. screws aren't really that much more expensive than nails, but you won't ever find a roofing company out there screwing a deck on your home these days.
This video should be required viewing, with a test at the end, for Anyone considering going into the Trades, as always another Great Video.
For the longest time, I thought about half of the nails I bought were defective, with the point and/or the head on the wrong end. It took me forever to realize they were for the other side of the house.
Wish they were labeled:
Left handed, Right handed, upside down and regular. 🤷
Yep, Time and money. That's why, nails and pinning them with nail guns is a faster way to join wood than screws and drivers. And when a house requires thousands or tens of thousands, it adds up quickly. Great video as always !!
We don't know what the penny in penny nail means in Canada. At least for the 50 years I was a carpenter.
Before nailers we had 3 1/2" and 4" Spikes in common, ardox (twisted shank) and galvanized form.
We used 1 1/2" up to 2 1/2" common for sheathing, underlay and bridging of joists and an array of finish nails for finish. No pennies! Always knew about it but never understood it.
From 72 to 80 or so all you heard on a building site was saws and hammers.
A wonderful sound that's hard to describe unless you experience it.
I could tell by the sound of the tools who was working on what without looking up. Every carpenter had a sound of their own when hammering.
Something about building a house start to finish with just a hammer.
When the nailers appeared I was one of the lucky ones who didn't shoot themselves in the first 6 months. Mostly in the leg! But you get in tune with it, and accurate and it's the only way now.
Cheers 🇨🇦
Canadian engineer here. I still don’t fully understand the penny designation. I wish we would just call it what it is, diameter!
It’s a 16mm bolt, so why not call it a 3mm nail? And don’t get me started on gauge!
When I was a kid, my cousins and I spent a lot of time at my maternal grandparents house. My grandfather had lived through the depression and fought in WWII, he kept everything LOL. As kids we would be tasked at pulling nails out of chunks of 2x4. He had a couple of 5gallon buckets full of old nails, he’d pay us a nickel or a dime to first straighten the nails, then sort through them. Back then you could buy a fair bit of candy at the corner store for a dime 😊
He also had an old chunk of wood and he’d let us drive nails into that chunk of wood as long as we wanted to.
Fond memories, and yes I have an air nailer, but I can also drive nails!
Cheers from Tokyo!
My old boss, who taught me years ago, made me hammer nails until I learned where to place them properly and how not to split things. You have a better feel for the harder softer and grains of wood when hand nailing. And I still do it sometimes, just easier on small jobs .
Great explanation of the various types of nails. Thanks much, Scott.
Thank you, Cousin, for more knowledge. (My mother was a Wadsworth)
You rock. Love your vids and all the wisdom that flows from them.
There's so many things regarded as simple enough it doesnt need to be taught and so we all go through life acting as if we always knew that.
Thanks to you there's alot of important details I actually do know now
On our first home renovation, I hand nailed crown molding and trim details. Then I got a brad nailer and compressor. The difference in quality, precision, and ease of installation was tremendous. I’d never go back.
My how things have changed. When I first started, we were finishing apartments in Nebraska with pre finished oak trim. Had to pre drill for the 6d nails otherwise it would split. Now everything is guns. So much easier.
I know a lumber yard that still sells loose nails from a bin into a paper bag if you're only buying a pound or two. Real "Old School". Learned a trick while building a Cedar Deck that at the end of the day, if you wet down the deck before you leave, any hammer marks will swell up and no more hammer marks to be seen tomorrow morning.
Exceptional video good lesson I really
Enjoy .....makes my day😊
The neighbor's house in the 70's was built with spiral nails. Sort of the best of both worlds. They are nails with a square cross section but twisted about 4 turns every 3 inches. Then of course there are ring-shank nails I find on pallets all the time.
The whole video was worth watching if nothing else then for that last statement. Thank you.
My first teacher didn't let me use a nail gun. Everything we built we drove by hand. Took longer but now that I am on my own it's nice to be able to have that skill. It does take longer for framing if you don't use the gun but there is no substitute for form work. I've worked on form jobs where all they used was screws and I had to bite my tongue and finish the job as best I can. The foreman was a civil engineer and had never used a skill saw before, the man almost cut off his fingers on a daily basis. Nothing blew but that bridge will need to be refinished within 5 year. Sad.
I cannot wait until I can run my own show. There is more I need to learn but man I've got some ideas I'd love to implement into the industry.
Thank you for the content from Ontario Canada. You have been a big influence in my pursuit of knowledge and experience in the construction industry.
Nails are softer than screw for the most part which means they are more resistant to stress. Screws shear off & nails don’t (unless they’re expensive structural screws). Both have their place..but when it comes to production, you cannot beat nailing.
Doesn’t that mean that the nails just fail in a different way? Instead of a catastrophic failure, like a screw snapping, the nail just bends so that it’s no longer holding both pieces in the same place as they were before the shear stress was applied. That kind of silent, insidious failure doesn’t seem great to me. Maybe it’s less problematic in certain scenarios.
"I know what I like, and I like what I know." Inflexible thinking limits opportunities, and the inability fix and move on from mistakes also holds one back.
In general, when using screws they really need a pilot hole, and if you want to pull boards tight, the first board needs a hole larger than the screw.
I work for a custom home builder, and I make framing changes when necessary. If a stud is twisted or we have to add something in, I find screws to be life saving. Screw guns will fit where nail guns won't and screws draw very well. GRKs specifically are amazing and you need a metal cutting sawzall blade to cut them since they are made of a high quality steel. But they are also significantly more expensive so when I frame larger things I use a 16 gun unless I need to draw the board in.
Honestly anyone who definitively states X is superior to Y or vise versa probably isn’t well versed in construction technology. Each has strengths and weaknesses, even within their own type. When I was early in my construction career I had an older engineer enlighten me about why we use both. For example, why, from an engineering point of view was it better to use a power actuated framing nailer with framing nails to assemble a stick built wall vs 3.5 inch screws…. The nails are tempered such that they have flex and aren’t brittle. They handle the stresses of assembly much better than screws which tend to be of a higher temper. Meaning the nails will bend a little to absorb stresses that would snap a screw.
That’s just one example. I think what separates the top 5% of contractors/carpenters/tradesmen from the bottom 95% is an aptitude AND willingness to learn about your trade and the other trades around you. Instead of complaining about the inspector or the engineer I learned to get on their good side by asking them relevant questions about the project or building technology and picked their brain for useful knowledge. And in most cases they also would develop a mutual respect. I call that a win/win.
I just bought a ~800 pack of 3-1/8 inch construction screws and it was damn near 75$… 1000 framing nails for less than half the price
God bless you Sir.
Don't screw with me, man.
You really nailed this video.
Glad that you didn't screw up making it.
In my limited (Canadian) experience, we use "ardox" nails ie. spiral twist.
funny you should mention this now.... I am just finishing up a garden shed that is 'your fault'. Between you and Larry Haun you made me think I can do it, so I did it. However, it is all screwed together (I did have to buy an impact driver for that), partly because I have no nail guns, and partly because the entire structure is intended to be taken down and moved in a year or two. 8x12', 2x4 frame, covered in IBR sheeting. Just storage, so doesn't need more than that, no insulation needed since it is under shade trees. One more coat of paint tomorrow and it is done. I havn't used a nail in years, I dislike them since I am more of a cabinet maker than a carpenter, so maybe that comes into it too. But, the right nail in the right place does have a place in construction. We recently had our roof replaced, no nail guns, just screws and hand hammered nails, takes a while for technology to get to South Africa.
I can’t believe a person can talked about nails like reading a book 😊
thankyou for the lesson
Thank you for this video,very informative
Mt grandfather was a carpenter. I'm not sure exactly when he started, probably the late 50s or early 60s. He passed in the late 80s. He could pretty much do it all. My mom still has the blueprints and the materials list for the house that my mom and dad built in the late 70s that he drew up. He did everything from the foundation to the roofing. And the plumbing. He could build custom cabinets if you had the money for that.
I know he did finish work, too. I never saw much of that, though.
I kick myself in the tail every day for not working with him and learning the trade when I was a young man. He was a little difficult to work with, though. 😂 He pretty much worked alone. My uncles even said that they couldn't work with him.
A missed opportunity for me and a lot of knowledge lost when he passed away.
My Dad was like that. Great Master Craftsman. Built his retirement home in the ‘70’s or early’’80’s. He could build anything, right. I wanted to work with him so badly and to learn from him, but just as you said, he couldn’t or I think wouldn’t teach me. He worked alone most of the time. On construction jobs he worked faster and better than everyone else. He was invaluable
@sport07-o2l there's not many people like that around anymore.
Amen. RIP Larry. Just for s and g I build my retirement house with GRK screws. Well those parts that aren’t mortised and tendons. The crew was constantly wondering why I was spending so much on fasteners. I didn’t tell them that my timber frame was built to float when the world floods again. That way they won’t come knocking when their houses wash away. Can’t say I didn’t show them how it’s done.
Now mind you, this is just my personal opinion. Working in So Cal, and in a seismic environment, I have seen old work that has stood for many years. Evidence of nailing being pulled out and then slipping right back in is evident. Is this a bad thing? What if that joint was screwed? Too rigid? Would the joint or fastener fail?
I believe a certain amount of give within a joint will accumulate over the entirety of the structure. Allowing the building to be more fluid during earthquakes.
This is why "I believe" nails are still used to this day.
a beautiful thought to end on 😁
Scott's "screwing" around on Saturday, and "pitching" the pluses and minuses of each fastener, and I for one can't wait to follow this "thread" and see the comments. I'm sure no matter what the outcome, Scott will hit the nail on the head and provide us with his unique perspective. In for a "penny", in for a "pound".
I’ve often wondered . . .
More important: Am I using the fasteners correctly? In general, both nails and screws are intended to hold things together. They’re not intended to carry loads. Whenever you frame something, ask if it would remain together if all the nails and screws magically disappeared. If they won’t, you’ve a bad design.
Am I fastening something that will later be removed? Better use screws.
THANK YOU for the primer on the types and uses of nails. I think every box store ought to have a poster up explaining these details.
Larry Haun - watching him in videos is like watching a ballet.
I used screws to replace a sub floor in one room, ive got another room to do. What kind of nails would you use for sub floors. Its an old house that had tongue and groove floors.
Keep using coated floor screws for your subfloor. Nails over time will squeak.
Someone once told me that nails can be better than screws because they're not hardened. They can bend where a more hardened screw might snap.
The idea is that a house built of screws can lose critical strength if a screw breaks.
Don't know if that's true.
Im doing work on my 1940 home studs are toed with 20 p nail. Those things don't like coming out. im actually surprised how they didn't spit more studs with them.
I've allways thought that the glue that holds airgun nails together in a clip melts a little when the gun drives it and helps it hold in the wood.
Correct. Friction softens the glue then it hardens after the nail is set.
In New Zealand the metric sizes would be as follows: 4 penny = 40mm, 5 penny = 45mm, 6 penny = 50mm, 7 penny = 60mm, 8 penny = 65mm, 16 penny = 90mm, 20 penny = 100mm & the 8 inch spike = 200mm. These are obviously approximate, it's what we would ask for in a hardware store. The 16 penny (90mm) is for framing and I would, as a D.I.Yer use 5-6 penny (45mm-50mm) for base boards or as we call them skirting boards, window sills, window & door casings. We have a late 1950's house and while pulling walls down, non structural, I've come across having to pull 6 inch (150mm) nails that broke a sweat lol. Other than 90mm & 50mm for the nail gun I tend to keep 40mm & 60mm they come in handy sometimes.
Interesting that you only seem to use round (aka French) nails. For hand nailing I've probably used more oval nails than rounds in my 50+ year working life here in the UK. I get what you say about nailers, though, although compressed air nailers have been frowned on for a long time over here, meaning that any "chippy" worthy of the name has one or more gas or (more recently) cordless nailers in his or her kit. We are only just starting to see the more widespread usage of PPN (positive placement nailers) her - one sticking point being the cost of the collated twist nails along with the high price of the guns - but once you show site managers how much faster a nail gun is than hand nailing most become converts
no screw ups here, this video nails it
What about structural screws? The ones with the torx bit.
I love all things construction, but the videos you make that I have binge watched are the jordan peterson type of Wadsworth videos u put out,keep em coming,all men need advise, good advise. Thank you Sir.
in the uk if you're driving finish nails in by hand, ovals are a common nail to be used, are they not used too much in the US?
fYI hitachi is now metabo HPT (Hitachi power tools)
We use nails for shear strength. When I do decks, and I am attaching band board to the joists. I use two screws but I use a nail in the middle. Do I need to? Probably not, but I know it will protect from lateral movement.
nails are usually considered better for the most part in framing because of their ability to give just a little under extreme stress. On the other hand screws can be more prone to shearing or snapping under powerful and sudden forces as a house's framing might experienced during an earthquake.
Ring shank are forever never loosen on any job ive done from 1980 to now
Which is why you need to be sure you set them right in the first place - because trying to dismantle stuff which has been ring nailed can be pure hell. I just wish I could get some architects and site managers (GCs) to understand this when they specify ring nails - then change their minds about what they want
Oil the hose and the receiver on that nailer and they will last forever. I have my father in laws hitachi framing nailer, 30 years old. It’s a gem.
The finish nail is still a superior nail for it's unmatched holding power, compared to a finish nail gun which always has less holding power, because of the rapid nail insertion that tends to tear out the wood fibers, pared with a small or slight head, will not pull down that finish board to seat it in its place. The hand driven finish nail will pull the board down tight and keep it there.
I stopped using common nails 40 years or more. Ardox, or more commonly called spiral, are my go to,The only time common were used were in the nail gun and even then sooner rather than later were replaced with spiral. Try an pull a spiral nail some time. They are faster to put in than screw and just as good at gripping an pulling parts together, let alone the cross section is way larger than any screw and stronger(as they are generally heat treated up here, Canada). The only spot screws get used is sub flooring. Even then there is adhesive used. As I used to say as a general saying "it was glued screws and tattooed".
only ten thousand hours to be perfect, nice long way to perfection😉👌🤟👍
Screws Vs. Nails: Screws rely mostly on compressive forces to clamp a joint and are permanently locking but brittle. Nails generally are there to handle shear loads and are "tough as nails" as in they deform rather than snap. If you want to hold a steel bracket on a wall use a screw, if you want to build a wall and have it handle movement like a earthquake or high wind event use a nail. Also Nails are cheaper and easier to install and have far better corrosion resistance with hot dip coatings. I've switched back to galvanized nails on all my deck jobs due to corrosion eating the green screws in as little as 5 years.
I would have to say one thing is sheer strength I believe it's called. You know how many times you can bend over a nail before it snaps. Hit a screw one time and it snaps. Also the skyscrapers at New York City sway several feet back and forth at the top. Engineers don't try to build to defeat that with a more solid rigid structure. Same with nails they at every nail joint allow for small movement. Screws wouldn't do as much of that. Plus I haven't seen an automatic screw nailer. The workers themselves might go on strike if they were forced to use screws everywhere.
I used Simpson strong ties to reinforce my finished basement stair treads.
Whenever they finished my basement they didn't replace the stairs for stringer stairs and left the 80s and earlier dado slot stairs where the treads slightly fit in and are nailed through the side "stringer".
The treads over time we're coming out of the dados and the construction adhesive it looks like they added before finishing the stairs was cracking.
So I opted for Simpson strong tie brackets that I cut to fit and used Simpson bolts and those stairs aren't going anywhere.
I saved the cutoffs to use for the kickers and will use the Simpson bolts for the "stringer" side and I'll use wood screws for the kicker side because it's thin.
Maybe it won't add strength but I have the same amount of cutoffs as I used on the tread so why not add some shear strength lol. And I already have the Simpson bolts. So what the heck lol.
These brackets were designed to be the sole thing holding the tread to the side stringer so regardless of whatever strength the stairs had I know only have to worry about the "stringer" attached to the foundation wall coming away lol.
great video. simple concept but very important. that timber looks treated, I've always wondered what is creosote?
the issue i find with screws is going back years later to fix something. you don't always have access to the screw head, like say it has been plastered over by cement board and stucco, or you're working on the frame of a shower in a crawlspace that was framed in externally. personally i do prefer screws to nails though, but disassembling a nailed together piece versus a screwed together piece is a completely different task, sometimes impossible.
Nails bend where screws break.
28° wire collated framers beat out all others, imo.
I do love a t25.
the simple way to put it is that not every connection needs to be that strong.
You're like the dad many never had
This video has definitely happened already lol.
Not that I'm complaining.
Any essential craftsman is good stuff
I learned square cut nails have more surface contact with wood and strongest nail. But sheer strength can hold with a nail, but not a screw. Then there are lag and structural screws which have the strength of a nail but the non-permability of a screw.
Ive been building for nearly 30 years. The only thing i use nails for is trim, cabinets, or small components that i want to hide fasteners or need to be able to remove later. Ive built and repaired well over 1000 decks. Ive repaired only a few that had issues with screws, typically they sheared off due to not enough fasteners. With today's technology there is no reason to use nails for structural purposes. Nails cause more failures than any other connection. Most of the time its from wood shrinkage or rot. I think the code is behind on this. My personal belief is to pay the extra 10% cost (average price on decks, fences, framing) and get more than double the lifespan. Labor cost way more than materials, to spend an extra $500 for your 800 sqft deck is negligible for most homeowners. Especially when new construction is falling apart in under 5 years. Screws and nails are a cry once kind of idea in my opinion. I prefer to pay up front for the quality and know its going to last. Ive only met a few people willing to go as absolutely cheap as possible when they fully understood the differences. Backyard fences and decks are hands down my favorite examples. I just wont do it that cheap. My phone rings when the customers want new projects, not call backs to put more nails in.
Yup you got it right, its all based on price. When we can screw together houses for the same price as nails, we will screw the houses together.
I like ring-shank nails!
"drill down on the nail" 😂
I always understood nails are better at resisting shear forces (less brittle) and screws resist pulling out for obvious reasons. We're subject to 100mph (160kph) gusts in the fall and after losing my porch roof I rebuilt it with screws.
You forgot one of the biggest things about nails vs screws, which is, in general, nails aren't as hard/brittle and can bend as wood moves, so if there's going to be wood movement, a nail will allow it and screw won't.
Another good video, but I'm surprised you didn't touch on the ductility aspect.
I'm pretty sure nails still exist because construction guys LOVE driving nails with their hammers (tbf it is super satisfying). Its therapy for them so the practice persists...
Early! Thanks for the info!
Why no mention of Ardox? Twisted shank nails?
Only 10,000 hours 😂 so true ! 👍🏾
It is my understanding that nailed joints allow for more flexibility in the joint that screws.
Would a house that's put together with screws be more robust, keep straighter/plumb lines over decades, more resilient to earth tremors, earth movement, etc?
You are asking for two different things. Stronger means more brittle.
The screwed house would hold plumb better, but where nails would flex screws will snap.
Practically speaking it's the wood that flexes the most, so they shouldn't have too large a difference, while the screws snapping is a real concern, the range between an event that will snap the screw, but not cause a nailed structure to fail is Extremely thin. So at the end of the day it's a cost concern. If you are building one house it doesn't matter, do it however you want. Buying a nail gun and compressor is more expensive than the increased cost of screws. If you are building a hundred houses? get the nails.
@@vidard9863Reply approved 👍
I think I heard once that nails are stronger than screws. I figure if you want to take stuff apart use screws, if you never want to disassemble it use nails. Can't imagine taking a house apart unless its junk, unless it's a temporary house like a hard sided hunting camp that is assembled every year(unusual for sure).
Remember "Good enough for how it's for."
In remodeling, I have found structural screws invaluable. Not sure how I would have accomplished some of the tasks I have, without screws.
Do you use cut nails in the US?
I would think the labor cost Is the reason, the framing can be done with nail and dry wall can be screwed for security .
Screw a board to a wall and stand on it. The screw will break, the nail will flex and bend with the structure
I never minded driving nails by hand but, don't stay around me while I'm hammering. Because I have a big problem with hanging on to the hammer. It always goes flying. So, when the air nailers came out they have been my friend. I still haven't figured out what is the problem with my hands.
A screw is always better then a nail. A screw also has a certain shear moment just like a nail, you just have to choose the screw with the right diameter. Plus a screw will pull materials together and can't pulled out, and a nail can. That is the biggest disadvantage of a nail. And I think that is one of the biggest reasons American houses blow apart in strong winds. Look at Japanese houses, they also have a wooden base but they screw it together instead of nailing. They only use nails for the parts of the house that aren't constructionally important.
Nailing and not screwing because it is cheaper isn't a good reason in my opinion because you want a strong solid house for your client and not only a cheap house.
Different mentality in Japan and they had the disposable income to pay for a much longer build. They build fewer houses than in N America.
Add their earthquake building codes and you have a different beast than here.
Contrast that with what I saw last week in Toronto: non English speaking asians assembling flat-pack stairs onsite with small L-brackets and short screws?!? People need to walk on stairs, they’re not decorative!!! 🤡
Anyways they left in a hurry as we brought in solid oak quality built winders.
I took a lot of pictures because 😳 I had no words.
Watch who builds your home folks. ❤
"Man oh man... Man, yes!"
3in = 10d
3-1/4 = 12d
3-1/2 = 16d
I think the confusion started when inspector's began demanding heavier shaft nails. So a 12d with a 16d shaft became a "16d" which only causes confusion. Proper term is 12d, 130 shank. Then we would be calling nails by what the manufacturer's actually call them.
That and with wind and snow a nail will move and bend a screw will back off.
Screws don't break before nails pull out or wood gives way. It's efficiency that keeps nails in the trade. They're not the best, but good enough for the common folk.
Galvanized coated ring shanks in a nail gun.
I don't know how someone could think that a nail gun is somehow inferior. A nail gun put the nail in in one shot without any wallering out of the hold or bending. I don't drive many nails in my line of work, but I have a lot of fencing staples that are needed. I recently sprung for the Milwaukee fencing staple gun and that works so much better. The staples go in cleanly in once shot without any bending and they tend to hold better in my opinion. My old hammer gathers dust no and my arm feels a lot better.
Well, I am at the age where skills,and usefulness have declined a lot! I remember clearly when driving a box (50#) of 16s a day was the mark of a carpenter....They were about $15 a box. I hated the old black glue covered sinkers! I still can't accept buying those little boxes of nails (at about $6/lb,) instead of grabbing them out of a bin (at $0.29/lb)! I guess I am a victim of "confirmation bias"? I bought my first nail guns (all Hilti ) back in 1980. I still have those, but I can't get any parts for them. I noticed your hammer was marked "Ruger". Is that the same as the gun company? I still favor my Plumb fiberglass over all others. They have held up the best!