Women in the Facebook group In Ghost We Trust are constantly lusting after him while posting pics of him. They also sometimes share pics of him with his wife throughout the years & there's even a cartoon rendering of his wife...like as if she wants to be part of the fandom.
@@jeffanderson1708 that's cringy, it's why I don't participate in the fandom. Like any fandom, other fans ruin it lol. I preferred for Ghost to be anonymous because the mystic and theme is important to it's success. Tobias is very cool, but I don't need to know anything about him personally.
@@skylarpayne5613 True. That's what people should understand about Ghost: the permanent need change of musicians justfies reducing the fair reward of their contribution to what they *agree* to be paid for. Not what they should be paid for. The musicians turnover enables looking for the cheapest volunteers. To me, this seems like an abusive way to treat artists.
@@lexy9024 because some industry people hinted at who they were but it was also the former band mates being bitches and leaving only to dox themselves and him through court cases they lost
It's one of those times where everyone is right. The ghouls have the right to want recognition, but Tobias has the right to not want that, to maintain the band's appeal.
The problem is that the band mates decided to fuck over Ghost and the fans because they didn't get enough for THEM. They weren't in the right at all. They are assholes that decided to try and blackmail him into getting more than the contract they signed. I wouldn't be upset if they had made themselves public but pulling the curtain like that as a tactic is a bitch made move. They threatened out him, other band members, and then when that didn't work they tried attacking him openly. They weren't even that creative. They noticed cancel culture growing and decided "let's tell the world about his involvement with the Masonic lodge." They knew enough that that topic is not something that he'd deny or admit to publicly. Low hanging fruit. So... Fuck em'! They got what they deserved. A Civil court ruled they weren't entitled to anything and now they're on the hook for Tobias' legal costs he was forced to spend on a bogus suit.
For anyone who is confused about the lawsuit I have done some research around the whole thing, so here are the facts. Basically one of the main issues was the crediting for songs. Simon (Alpha) claimed that he wrote a large portion of the songs. Tobias claimed that he wrote a large portion of songs. So I found the credits for the albums and individual songs. The only album that is only credited towards him entirely is Opus, though its credited under an alias “A ghoul writer.” Past Opus everyone has their respective credits, even if they are under aliases. For example Indio Marcato (Martin Persner) was credited for a ton of songs in both Infestissumam and Meliora. The others credited are Klaus Ahlund (Producer of Meliora), Gustaf Lindstrom (Mummy Dust), and Johan Lindstrom (Deus in Absentia.) So I do not understand why Tobias would credit them, but not Simon. Also no one that actually had contribution in writing sued. Something here isn’t adding up. Another main problem was the payment. Now it is his project and they were hired musicians. Even Martin agreed that they were hired musicians. There was no contract for payment. I do not know enough about why he wasnt paying them and at the end of the day only the ghouls and Tobias will ever know. So on the payment matter we cannot judge either side since we dont know the whole story. Another thing I found out was that the suing ghouls endorsed a go fund me that used Tobias’ brother who passed away as emotional leverage. I also do not think the current ghouls who all have successful careers aside from Ghost would still be there if Tobias was a toxic as they said. Anyways no matter who was in the right here, it is Tobias’ project and it always has been. In my opinion the only ones with any right to sue were Simon and Martin since they contributed the most and were there almost since the begging. The other suing ghouls were not.
i cant believe they used tobias brother as leverage. no matter who you are thats not okay to use someone elses death to your advantage that was pretty messed up (not saying you think its okay just stating my opinion on that) as for everything else, it was all just a bunch of he said she said when it comes down to it. If tobias is as toxic as the other ghouls says he was why would the current ghouls (and ghoulettes) stay with him for this long. but i can also understand wanting credit and recognition the truth lies with the ghouls and tobias all they can really do is move forward in their own paths and do better for the future :))
As I understood, the former ghouls said that they actually were paid - but just that: They were paid for their perfomances but not in royalties for the album. Some of the ghouls were quite new in the band before the lawsuit (like 2015) so it doesn't make much sense to me why they would be entitled to those royalties and as the court said: they weren't. Tobias once said in an interview (don't know if that applies here) that the many rules he(they) had in order to keep their anonymity was not in favor for everyone. So it was about recognition too, as well as compansation for album royalities. They also claimed that they were in the band since the begining which was not the case. Sad how it went. But I'm excited for the new ghouls and happy to know who papa is. Happy everything turned out well for tobias and the new ghouls.
Being a hired gun is tricky. It really depends on the artist you're working for. Most of the time you are rediculously underpaid, cut out of the creative process. Yet still expected to behave at shows as if you're a full band member. If you want to look at the average of how this relationship goes, look no further than Trent Reznor (NIN) and Richard Patrick(Filter/ formally side man NIN). It was grueling to work for Trent. He generally ignored creative contributions from Patrick. Until he sensed one of his songs was a hit. Then tried to get him to give the song to NIN for basically free. He didn't credit Patrick for the guitar parts he came up with. He would just urge Patrick to start his own band. As if it were tough love. At one point Patrick was so low on money he couldn't afford to eat or pay his rent. He went to Trent. Who instead of loaning him money or paying him more. Promptly told him a pizza delivery was hiring down the street if he wanted to make extra money to supplement. So Patrick left and started Filter. Where he promptly treated his side men the same way. Even made them sleep on the tour bus instead of a hotel so he could keep more money. By the way, Patrick freely admits this. Not all relationships are like this. Some artists and bands pay their side men well, credit them and treat them as band members. Some eventually become full band members. But the story I told above is the most common. Though I see Tobias' pov. It's a tough situation for all.
The only reason Tobias is more recognized is because of the lawsuit. Before that he never showed his face in interviews Edit: Damn. Thank you all for so many likes. It's very much appreciated!
Spot on. I don't think he'd ever have stepped into the public eye if not for the lawsuit. Probably made him think "the damn cats out of the bag, may as well set the record straight".
@@iain2080 This is on record as being true. He needed to get in front of the media as himself before he was outed in a shitty courtroom battle. He was wise to do so.
I have always felt that Tobias was fair in his dealings with band mates. And he’s right-no one else takes on the legal responsibilities nor the investment capital like he does.
I'm also sure he didn't write all the music or credit his bandmates after taking an idea. Pretty messed up to take an artist's work and name from them. To clarify I love this band, and his voice but ive always thought it was pretty messed up that I have no idea who wrote some of those awesome guitar and bass lines
Tobias is a genius. He created the concept and worked it into the awesomeness it is today. I love the ghouls, but it’s a genius move to be able to replace them as necessary.
I've been in bands for years and I can assure you it's much better having musicians who aren't driven by the need to gain personal attention. Invariably the attention junkies who need their egos constantly massaged are the ones who create the most problems. Tobias Forge not only has a killer concept with Ghost, but it gives him the perfect pretext to demand that the musicians have a healthy attitude towards their roles in the band.
especially if the band members want to remain anonymous like ghost was for so long :)) I feel that a band like ghost is really good for musicians who just want to play and do their thing and then just fall back into the crowd i also find it cool for those who have stage freight especially since no one will know who you are
Ghost is Tobias’s brain child, and if it wasn’t for him applying his business mindset to the band, it would not be the behemoth that it is to this day. The man deserves all the credit for doing something that is so few & far between with hard rock and metal nowadays.
@@boballen1893 it’s not hateful to want the man who created this invention and made it what it is today to be recognized for that and not want them to be drug down by those who just wanted the money. That’s not hateful at all
@Jacques De Molay The Papa character wasn't his idea, yes but without him, Ghost would never be what it is today. During Opus, he knew what the next album was gonna be like During Infestissimum, he knew what Meliora was gonna be like and so on. He writes and arranges all songs except a few. Plays all instruments then gets a sessions band to record what HE wrote. He owns Ghost and his own company that controls everything Ghost related. He's a damn smart businessman. So he perfected EVERYTHING.
Keep them anonymous. It’s part of the gimmick. Every other band is too mainstream and the members are too outspoken. The anonymity is perfect. It works. It’s different. It’s part of the reason why Ghost is great. Keep the Papas and Cardinal. I hope they never change.
From the business perspective, Tobias is a genius. And I agree totaly with him, about the model of Ghost band. He is in charge, and making decisions. He only wants talented musicians to play with him. And he dont want all of this shit around, with to many chefs in his kitchen. Disagreeing with him, questioning his opinions and decissions. That's how great bands quits the job. As some of you probably dont know, he is also a composer, and most, even i think almost everything about how Ghost sounds, and what shape it has today is mostly his decisions. Also people always have a choice and making a councious decisions to be a part of this band.
What's funny is that when you see them live, he takes time to introduce each and every member of the band, and they're all named GHOUL!!! It's hilarious!
I personally love the anonymity of the band. If I had my way, I would never have found out who the Papas were.... the mystery really adds to the appeal for me. I will never look up the identities of the ghouls; it would really detract from the fantasy of their image, which is part of why I love them so much. In that same regard, I really appreciate each individual for what they bring, especially TF for his genius and charisma. Thank you, Ghost, fuck I can't wait for the next album!
I agree! Honestly knowing who Papa is sort of spoils it a bit. Still fantastic but I loved the mystery involved. It felt otherworldly. Now they are just human.
Had it not been for the "law suit" I would not have know who ANY of the people in Ghost were. The people who sued ruined their own history in a lot of ways, had they kept anonymous, they would still be in the biggest new band in the world. However, they are now unknowns STILL and Tobias is STILL Papa/Cardinal and Ghost are heading to the levels of Festival headliners!
@@andrewhudson2467 MCC is still very unknown in the states. They don’t even have a wiki page, so yes, the lawsuit didn’t help them out in any manner in terms of name recognition.
The nameless ghouls didn’t want “recognition,” they felt they were owed equity and ownership in the band. There’s a distinction and that’s why they lost the case. Surprised people can’t tell the difference.
@jhan bass I believe some of them were part of the writing process on the earlier albums but the writing credits just say “A Nameless Ghoul writer”. So it couldn’t really be proven as no contract or sorts were made at the time
I'm sure the man knows wtf he's talking about since he worked with him on a daily basis on tour, and heard their complaints that they weren't getting recognition as they would with other bands; as well as their complaints expecting to be permanent paid members of the band.
@@98Nintendoguy The only other Nameless Ghoul who really contributed to the writing was Martin and he wasn't part of the lawsuit. Tobias wrote 90% of the music.
I still cant get my head around tobias also being the alter ego front man of ghost. I love that the ghouls are nameless, it all adds to the mystery and fun.
Which one? Trick question, he's all of them haha! He's been all the Papas, the cardinal, special ghoul, probably more than that over the years honestly. I've always just thought that was incredibly damn impressive
Remember when Rick Wright, a founding member of Pink Floyd, was brought back as a contract/ hired musician for The Wall tour? And he was the only one who made money. The other three foot the bill and lost. Sometimes it’s ok to be just the hired hand.
Its in the same vein of being a Heartbreaker to Tom Petty or an E Street Band Member to Bruce Springsteen or a (Delaware) Destroyer to George Thorogood or a Blackheart to Joan Jett or on and on and on. And each of those had members in their bands for years and even decades. Each one dedicated, loyal, not rocking the boat, listening to the boss, making $$$ and being able to say they were a Heartbreaker, member of the E Street Band or a Destroyer or a Blackheart, etc...
As much as a jerk Tobias can be, I gotta side with him. Ghost was his idea and he wrote all the music. His contract in the lawsuit stated that all the "Nameless Ghosts" would not be credited, only paid to tour with him plus bonuses, out of his own pocket, which sounds like a good deal. They willingly agreed to that. They never wrote any of the songs or helped him in composition, they just toured with him for live events. Tobias is in the right here
I think you need to find and read the transcripts from the court proceeding. Yes, Tobias was the creative leader of the band, but the evidence showed they all intended to create a band, in which they would share profits. The former Ghouls won their appeal, and Tobias settled with them out of court.
@@brandonbingle4716 Lol what? The four guys who tried to sue Forge lost their case and were ordered to cover Forge’s legal fees. Stop making things up.
@@brandonbingle4716 this is what I'm trying to figure out. I feel like there wasn't a clear indication to the band members what their role was. It seems to me they felt they were a band until they asked Tobias about where all the money was. Then he shit canned them.
@@07foxmulder No you stop making shit up. The initial trial was won by TF yes but the appeal court disagreed with the original verdict which meant it was going back to trial, the trial was delayed and ultimately just before the new trial date the trial was stopped with TF and the Ghouls making a secret deal. What they agreed upon isn't revealed to the public and both parties wanted to keep the matter quiet.
3:06 He must be talking about Omega, Martin Persner. He (co-)wrote some of their songs. Year Zero and Zenith for example.. Man, I miss the guy. Excellent musician, great stage presence and just a very nice person. It's sad he had to go because he was definitely a real asset to Ghost.. I think Tobias is definitely brilliant. He has a real talent for writing juicy, catchy and accessible songs and he certainly has vision. As a musician who isn't all that into metal, I can say that his compositions and productions really are something else. He has written some really excellent stuff. Simple and compact, yet brilliant, catchy and very musical, not unlike some of the great classical composers. He has - obviously - always been the creative mastermind behind everything Ghost did, always planning ten steps ahead and he therefore tends to be a bit of a control freak, which is the downside of working for him. He's very clear about that: The Ghouls work for him, not with him. I very much admire the things he accomplished in such a short time, but just imagine if someone like him could allow another musician of equal creative excellence to enter his realm and really work with instead of for him (like Lennon and McCartney for example): Imagine what would happen then..
@WhatsTigUpToNow ? Yes he was definitely talking about Persner at 3:06, literally saying: 'I started this band in 2006 and f+cking no one that has ever been in the band, except for one person that was in the band for the five first shows, was ever there with me', later on he means, at their first live shows, that actually started in 2010. So this one person is definitely Persner he was talking about as he was there from the beginning in 2010 and quit on his own in 2017, stating he was with them for the whole 7 years. Do your homework before correcting people erroneously. Who else in the world would he be talking about then??
I believe he was talking about Gustaf Lindström. Gustaf Lindström didn't contribute musically but did have a huge influence in the idea and execution of ghost. He was the bassist for a couple of shows in 2010.
@@pipschannel1222 Simon Söderberg and three other ex-bandmembers sued Tobias Forge in 2017 and they all left Ghost in 2016. Persner has got the recognition for some song-writing in the past but Simon (2010-2016 in Ghost) feels he never got the recognition for co-producing the first two albums. They had an oral agreement in the beginning and that was the problem here...You should always write a deal/contract with the label/partner so you have that as a proof because you never know how the future will turn out and in Sweden we don´t sue people unless we are really sure that we can win the case and in this case all the four ex-members lost twice in court so they had to pay all the heavy costs aswell...what a disaster that must have been.....it feels like this case is pretty unusual...as most of the time an agreement between the two parts are written to avoid a trial in court...and now also in the higher court...it must have been about a lot of money because why all the hassle otherwise...but it seems that the lawyers involved must have fooled Simon somehow or not informed him what happens if they lose the case....or they were very sure they could win the case...
@VeganGhost FanForLife You don´t have the whole picture and Tobias isn´t a saint in all this...I have done some research about the case...look at my reply to Pip´s Channel....people don´t sue people for no reason...at least not in Sweden...that is too stupid to do...
The four “Nameless Ghouls,” were revealed to be guitarist Simon Soderberg (Alpha), keyboardist Mauro Rubino (Air), guitarist Henrik Palm (Ether) and drummer Martin Hjertstedt (Earth), in court documents from 2017.
I do understand why Tobias would want to maintain the business model of ghost in keeping the ghouls as a hired group of musicians rather than part of the band itself as there are so many people in the music business who would take that and run it into the ground if he didn't keep ultimate control of it. It definitely helps to keep the music project stable and consistent over time, that's for sure. However, I think ghost would benefit so much from him opening up to permanent musicians and writing input - don't get me wrong, I fucking love his stuff but I can see it becoming stagnant over time if only Tobias is writing it, it's very difficult to keep music fresh without the input of other people.
Tobias, Simon S., & Martin P. we're in different Bands for a long time & we're very good friends. That's half of the "early" Ghost Lineup but It's always been Tobias' Band. Identities were pretty much kept under wraps until the Lawsuit, when tne anonymity was lost. NIN is Trent Razor, Ghost is Tobias Forge. Like Reznor, he writes all the songs & lyrics. Musicians who play in the Studio & live in concert are more or less considered "Paid Performers." That definition doesn't sit well with a lot of other Musicians & Fans but that's really just how it is. You do see them having fun with each other on stage & that's great to see. In general & with Social Media, it's really hard for anyone to keep their anonymity. Just my opinion on this... Been loving Ghost since they first Toured the States. Eclectic, catchy, and deep Tunes. Always killer, live Shows too. 🎶💯🤘
I love the first album, great songwriting. I feel like anonymity is definitely part of the mystique of the band. He should have the band members sign an NDA 😂
From what I’ve read in the comments the reason why “prequelle “ is so different than the first 3 is because it was written solo by Tobias. The first 3 had him and his ex friends input which he finalized in court stating it was just him. So I have no effing clue wth is going on 😂.....
In my opinion Tobias is the guy that had the idea and vision to save traditional hard rock and big stage shows. Alice Cooper and Kiss are older now and someone has to carry the torch.
Ghost is more than a band. It's a play an ensemble. The spectacle is the experience. What you're seeing and hearing on stage is in it's entirety is Ghost. The mask makes anyone replaceable to keep imagery going.
The musicians in the band got hired to play material that was already recorded. They know that. So for them to say they arent being paid fairly need to be better negotiators. Its a business and they are hired to do the work. Believe me, they knew what they were getting into. Watch the documentary, Hired Gun.
If an artist writes all of the music themselves and they have people play it during shows, you are a hired musician. You don't have a say if you don't have input.
I know exactly how he feels. In my band it's always been me who takes the risks, pay musicians what little I've got left after I've spent a LOT on the show and hunting record deals all over the world whilst the band watch TV at home with their families. I make all the music. I'm up for days and nights to plan and write songs and then come to me and make demands... well, get the f out.
Yea I know how that is. I had an entire band threaten to quit when they found out I made more than they did. I was booking, and supplying over $20,000 worth of PA and lighting and they had the balls to say they wanted equal pay or they quit. I immediately contacted multiple venues and told them the band would be done in the next few weeks and stopped booking the gigs. Two or three weeks later they were asking "Where's the schedule and why aren't we playing any gigs next month?" I said "You want gigs A. Go buy your own shit B. Book your own gigs. How's that for equality? I was the only one smart enough to keep a "Big Boy job" throughout my career and when Covid hit most of them were either 100% jobless or playing low rent dive bars for practically zero money!
The thing about not getting any recognition is.. you dont build a name for yourself. So if and when you leave the band nobody knows you. So you kinda start from square one in a way
Yeah the only way I would agree to that would be if he paid me a ton of money, because by removing an artist's name from their work and taking credit for it, he owes his former band mates a lot Edit of course if hes writing every piece then that's cool but i imagine he is stealing writing or ideas from these people legally
Just because these people are nameless to Tobias doesn't mean they're nameless to the people in the music business. I doubt these people are sitting in the dressing room with their masks on. People know who they are.
Tobias writes every lyric, every riff… drums… keys…. He writes these songs. Hiring ppl to play them live Bc obviously he can’t play five instruments and perform- doesn’t make them Ghost. Tobias IS Ghost… If you hired a clown to entertain at a child’s bday party and then that clown started greeting guests, saying “thanks for coming” or when someone says “wow the decorations are awesome” and the clown says “thanks! A lot of effort went into this party!” He was hired to perform, he didn’t pay for the party, put up decorations or chose a theme, send invitations or make food, buy gifts. So why does the clown want recognition for a party he just showed up to? That’s exactly what he’s saying… he hired clowns and they wanted credit they didn’t earn or pay for.
If he wrote every riff then why can't he play them when he's behind a guitar??? 😂😂😂 Martin Persner and Henrik Palm are responsible for that. Research is key.
He was the captain, the rest were the crew. The band never was on equal grounds, as it's his brainchild. Kinda like Daron Malakian and Scars on Broadway situation.
Let’s all accept the fact that Ghost wouldn’t be Ghost without him! The songs are his creation even if other people contributed it was mostly his mind behind the music and to me the music is everything!
Tobias is smart and talented and he didnt want anyone else to fuck up HIS band ... He did it the right way and most people see that but, some people just lack the business mind-set to understand that.
classical pov from the bandmembers. I always loved Ghost as a concept. Not knowing who was behind the mask was fascinating. Now that we know, I still love the music, that is in the center of my attention!
Reminds me of the stig situation back in the day with top gear. The want to be recognised for playing an anonymous character is certainly ironic. Personally I'd love it, I'm a musician and an introvert so I used to love playing songs live and then wanted to be left alone in the bar after. It's like a dream situation haha But that said I totally understand why if you were the calibre of musician to be touring the world with ghost, that you'd certainly wanna put that on your resume, and to have to pretend you didn't have what is probably your greatest success as a musician would be tough for some people. I guess it comes down to whether being in ghost is enough for you, or if you need to have your cake and eat it too.
I agree with Tobias 100% it’s not like any of the original members were not paid... and most of those guys were more interested in Holding MCC together.... Tobias has found success with Ghost now and they just want to try to get in on it
Well yeah some people dont like being recognized. Just think what it would feel like with everybody wanting to stop you and talk or take photos of you all the time. I dont blame them at all.
Of course he started the band, no one denies that. However, acting as if the other guys didn’t contribute anything is just wrong. The meat of the matter lies in how the contracts were laid out, if there were any to begin with. Linton Rubino and Megan Thomas, for example, knew that they were “hired on” members of the band. I know Gustaf left on his own accord, and I’m assuming Rikard did as well. Ludvig wanted to only be a session drummer for Ghost. But everyone else? Simon, Martin P, Mauro, Henrik and Martin H? Why would they be under the impression they were only hired guns when other lineups had an actual contract stating they were temporarily hired guns? It’s all years old at this point, and I know the guys have all gone on to their own new careers, but I can’t help but feel that there was something wrong with how management handled the situation. Go back and read the documents and the trial transcripts. Tobias even seems shocked when management brings up “contracts”.
Tobias is NOTHING like Trent...Trent writes EVERY piece of sound within NIN music he just needs people to help bring it to life on stage...and Trent isn't a complete egomaniac douchebag wannabe satanist
@@patrickr.452 He basically wrote Opus Eponymous but every album since has multiple co writers and the next album will be a group effort...Trent has more talent in his pinky finger!
I have never seen a ghoul give a interview... All the ghoul interviews I have seen have always been tobias in ghoul costume.... Im sure it was just easier for him to throw that on and do the interview that way...
@@CarolaTesla Not that many. Around 5/7 interviews with Martin P., and two of them were with Simon. I could be wrong though. It’s been a long while since I watched them.
As a drummer and past hired gun to a few bands I would love to have an opportunity to play ghost music and be a nameless ghoul 🙊! 🤘🏽 No questions ask. Sign me up.
(Guitarist's Dream)Tobias: Hey man, it was great to meet you, but you really would take the anonymity to be part of Ghost over the public knowing who you are? Me: Every fucking day, all day! You're the boss, the writer and director. Sign me up!!
I know who they all are and what they look like. But I tend to think of them as themselves as sort of different entities than their ghoul personas, which is what they basically are, personas.
He's right. It's HIS idea. Ghost is actually a solo artist show. The music, the lore, the whole fucking thing is just him. Something similar happened with Bon Jovi. Jon became famous without having a band and THEN he hired everybody else. He's the only one that's actually signed. Let the creators TAKE ALL THE CREDIT and be happy they choose you.
Okay but the band put effort and skills in what they do, so it's not really right to pretend the band is not actually important, the music IS important, lot of bands actually revolve around only one member work, he might compose and keeping up with the lore,okay but ask yourself, would people still like the band and be interested if the instrumental was shit?
@@ssfghjgghhgrdcbbnmjgddxcggg I get your point but would this band even have a following without this songwriter and creator? Just instrumental metal? What comes first? They can be replaced, even with someone better. He did say, tho, that he would LOVE for the band to stay the same. He appreciates not having to "explain" things to anybody. He's a control freak, yes, but because he knows that what he created is unique. Wouldn't you want to be fully credited for something so original? I'm a composer myself, and even though I can give credit no problem, if it's my idea, it's my idea.
If you went into an agreement from day one to be a band collectively then so be it. But if it's the brain child of one person and your along for the ride, then you know what the deal is. There is some awesome musicianship in this music so I can see wanting to be recognized for that, but if it's all you and not Tobias then go out on your own and get the recognition, it's easy right?
I think the problem with anonymity arises when the credit for the songwriting goes to “a bunch of nameless ghouls” or “a nameless ghoul writer”. If they contributed to the composition of the song their name should be on there. Martin was smart enough to get his writing credit in under his own name. The ex-ghouls that are suing who may have contributed to the music have nothing as “a nameless ghoul” can be anyone. And as much as I love the work Tobias does I go to the concerts to see the entire band (honestly the ghouls are a lot of the fun). If it was just him up there and a record being played I wouldn’t go. Appreciate the hand you’ve been dealt and the amazing ghouls you have now.
Writing credit never went to "a bunch of nameless ghouls." When it comes to ownership and royalties these things can't be vague. It has always been "A Ghoul Writer" which is the alias Tobias uses. A Ghoul Writer is only him. It can't be anybody else for legal reasons. Martin was credited as Indio Marcato. That is him and nobody else. The only other Ghoul to receive credit was Tobias' buddy and first bassist Gustaf Lindström on Mummy Dust. The other dozen Ghouls over the years didn't contribute to writing. If they did, their names or assigned aliases would be there. Songwriting credits weren't an issue in the lawsuit. Those four former Ghouls wanted to see what the profits were and if it were a lot, they wanted a cut of it.
I have worn a few masks at gigs over the years and it SUCKS! That and wigs. Once I was chewing gum and the wind blew part of my wig into my mouth and the wig hair got all chewed up in the gum and accidentally swallowed it and the hair was stuck in my throat so I yanked the hair of the wig and pulled the gum out of my throat. Very fun!
Ghost is Tobias glorified solo gig. Nothing more. It’s his baby it’s his creation. The way he runs it is how he gets to run it. Phil Collins solo stuff is the same why but when it comes to Genesis then it’s a collective thing. When someone is hired by Tobias to play a ghoul, they should know what there in for.
Honestly I don't think I could handle fame yet I'd love to entertain a large crowd on a regular basis. I think it makes total sense to anyone who has seen how the public can be to celebrities. I just want to eat my lunch without being bothered or having to be an asshole about it.
He’s finishe the itw with his Papa Accent it’s funny ! Don’t Forget that Dave Grohl and Paz L’enchantin (or maybe it’s the other bassist of the same band...) were in GHOST for couple of show back in time and they enjoy it, they really loves to be here but anonymly ! For big name like this artist are even if they are solo or with a band, everyone know who Dave Grohl is and who Paz is too ... it’s crazy thing ! At this Time, in actual GHOST Line up You have a Guy who made really big big dance radio hit around 2015... this Guy have an amazing voice, make multiple millions of views over the internet and thousand of people seing him live as solo artist and... he loves to be hère on ghost as « unnammed » or as a ghoul as backing vocalist + third guitarist and other instrument.... So... 🔥 respect for this Guy ... And one from legendary death métal band BLOODBATH, One of Djent band, One chorist / piano / synth girl is big solo artist too who made millions view solo.. etc etc... it’s amazing
This is all similar to KISS...the anonymity was great for a while...but they realized at some point it just couldnt keep going...like once Peter and Ace left and went out without the makeup...it changed things within KISS....even now putting it back on as they did, its just not really the same
Maybe because I’m older and a private person, I would prefer the anonymity of this style. Thinking about it objectively it seems like being a “celebrity” would get really irritating quickly.
Honestly though, this whole thing is not a band it’s a project it’s just a project produced by one guy like panic at the disco, for the other guys or just employees I guess. I mean to his credit at least he went out and made ghost the project rather than himself. Which is pretty cool. Just like panic at the disco is the project instead of Brendon himself. In my opinion I believe this is a very efficient way to create your vision and create the sound you and you alone one, but without developing an ego to make it feel like it’s still not just not yours.
Regardless that yes this is Tobias' baby, ghost isn't Tobias forge, joe schmoe, John doe and Fred Rodgers, ghost is Papa and the Ghouls. That's just a fact and Tobias himself gets that.
Jeah, stars like Aerosmith and Metallica are these few exceptions I mentioned. But look for example In Flames, who are from the same Country and are nearly equally well known: their former guitar and bass players now own a restaurant in Gothenburg and only fans do really care about this. 😅
@@InvUnk try any band started on 2010 or newer. Even Tobias who is now known, can walk down the street in any city in the US and nobody would likely recognize him either.
Imagine Thobias all of sudden trying to claim he's just as much as a head of the band in MCC or Priest. No one would tolerate that and yet some people expect him to when it comes to Ghost.
Part of the mystique for me with both Ghost and Slipknot was the masks and costumes concealing the appearance and identities of the members. Finding out who they were lost that mystique for me although I know full well something like that couldn't be kept up forever. The difference between Ghost and Slipknot's membership secrecy policies is that Slipknot ended theirs willfully by engaging in side projects that required the members to speak n public without anything to conceal themselves while Tobias was forced to expose Ghost as himself and those were suing him were battling in court. It still doesn't take anything away from being able to enjoy the music because that aspect of their art still stands up on its own.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
Yeah, and the musicians that were in Alice Cooper's School Out and Trash are remembered with nostalgia, but after that most people just didn't care. The latter Alice Cooper albums, no one knows them. Perhaps the line up had something to do, who knows. But the same kinda happened with Ghost. Their peak was Meliora, and who were under the masks there? That's the thing a lot of people miss, he is not the band. He doesn't write all of it himself. Opus and Infestissumam are WAY different and it was different because there was a different line up. After Martin left Ghost it shows that he was a creative force, compare it with the new MCC stuff and you see what I'm talking about.
@@turbosinnermusic EXACTLY, most people who think Ghost was just Tobias have NEVER listened to MCC. You just listen to “Demon King” and it’s literally the sound of Infestissumam and Meliora all over it.
@@turbosinnermusic Meloria might be highly regarded as objectively their "best album." However, it was not their peak. In 2018 they played their first ever headline arena show and they keep getting more popular. Their last album was #2 on the US billboard and #1 in many other countries. This proves the band is only getting bigger and people are still flocking to it even with the lineup change. I love the new Ghouls and the personality they bring to the live performances. Yes the lineup changed, but if fans still love the music and the live shows, it doesn't matter who is behind the mask.
Should have stayed anonymous. Kind of like KISS in the 70s. The mystery was so cool. We really saw them as those characters. After the make up came off it was just another band
And not even a good band. KISS hid behind the masks and their music was average at best, the show and the makeup was what brought them to the level they were!
They definitely were great and the best lineup in my opinion, but things change. Martin Persner wrote most of Year Zero, but he left the band. Axel was an amazing drummer and "too good to be in Ghost" as Tobias said, but he left. Simon was a great guitarist. Very talented but didn't really write songs. Same with Mauro Rubino. Martin H. on drums didn't contribute anything. Water (2015-2016) who later took over for Martin didn't contribute anything. Lastly, they were a hired band to take out on tour. Tobias used a sessions band on the Albums. Now look who's making millions. If a few crybaby's looked at their own contracts, stuck with the band instead of bitching at Tobias and taking him to court, they might still be in the band and making good money. Two members that played in 2017 are still playing in Ghost. They stuck it out and are now probably making good money.
My two favorite Ghost songs by far were co-written by Martin Persner (Year Zero and Zenith). Tobias Forge loves to pat himself on the back and make it sound like he did everything by himself but he had a lot of help from other people. He didn't even design the Papa Emeritus character.
Deffinatly, tobas is claiming they want to represent the band but really he want to be the only one representing the band he activity makes choices to make that happen. I think its down right shameful behavior, i often associate him with Gene Simmons
@@carlmadsen5734 They DON'T represent the band. They never did. Tobias/his sole company make all the decisions of Ghost. Every single decision. The Ghouls are a hired band. They don't write the songs, they don't come up with creative ideas, they don't book venues they take no risky business ventures etc. They are hired for one thing. To tour. That's all. Kiss is a completely different situation. In Kiss they all had creative control. I'm talking about the original lineup. Say what you want about Gene, he's a genius at marketing. Tobias gets paid the most because he takes the most risk. He takes on most of the responsibility. If the stage performers if Ghost don't like ANY aspect of performing in front of thousands and thousands of people, they can always pursue other ventures.
I think of Ghost as the band, not as Tobias. I like the anonymity it makes the band cooler. It's just Papa and the Nameless Ghouls.
Women in the Facebook group In Ghost We Trust are constantly lusting after him while posting pics of him. They also sometimes share pics of him with his wife throughout the years & there's even a cartoon rendering of his wife...like as if she wants to be part of the fandom.
Jeff Anderson yea there’s a lot of fan girls in that group lol most of the post are about him or omega
@@jeffanderson1708 that's cringy, it's why I don't participate in the fandom. Like any fandom, other fans ruin it lol. I preferred for Ghost to be anonymous because the mystic and theme is important to it's success. Tobias is very cool, but I don't need to know anything about him personally.
yeah people forget that even tobias didn't reveal his own face or name for the longest time...
Seems like a weird comment when Tobias is obviously not anonymous...
I wish their identies were still hidden, it was so cool not knowing who they were and them being able to pull it off
yes i know im really late but why are their identities not hidden anymore?
@@lexy9024 some court case to do with money I think
@@LordSummerIsle73 their identity is still hidden, none of the 4 members involved in the lawsuit against tobias are still involved with the band
@@skylarpayne5613 True. That's what people should understand about Ghost: the permanent need change of musicians justfies reducing the fair reward of their contribution to what they *agree* to be paid for. Not what they should be paid for. The musicians turnover enables looking for the cheapest volunteers. To me, this seems like an abusive way to treat artists.
@@lexy9024 because some industry people hinted at who they were but it was also the former band mates being bitches and leaving only to dox themselves and him through court cases they lost
It's one of those times where everyone is right. The ghouls have the right to want recognition, but Tobias has the right to not want that, to maintain the band's appeal.
The problem is that the band mates decided to fuck over Ghost and the fans because they didn't get enough for THEM. They weren't in the right at all. They are assholes that decided to try and blackmail him into getting more than the contract they signed. I wouldn't be upset if they had made themselves public but pulling the curtain like that as a tactic is a bitch made move. They threatened out him, other band members, and then when that didn't work they tried attacking him openly. They weren't even that creative. They noticed cancel culture growing and decided "let's tell the world about his involvement with the Masonic lodge." They knew enough that that topic is not something that he'd deny or admit to publicly. Low hanging fruit. So... Fuck em'! They got what they deserved. A Civil court ruled they weren't entitled to anything and now they're on the hook for Tobias' legal costs he was forced to spend on a bogus suit.
I guess we all know who the ghouls are at this point in time
@@carpediem6842 there's a video on youtube who tells you who they all are. AN UNHELPFULL GUIDE TO THE GHOULS
What do you mean? I thought the former ghouls sued for royalty money.
For anyone who is confused about the lawsuit I have done some research around the whole thing, so here are the facts.
Basically one of the main issues was the crediting for songs. Simon (Alpha) claimed that he wrote a large portion of the songs. Tobias claimed that he wrote a large portion of songs. So I found the credits for the albums and individual songs. The only album that is only credited towards him entirely is Opus, though its credited under an alias “A ghoul writer.” Past Opus everyone has their respective credits, even if they are under aliases. For example Indio Marcato (Martin Persner) was credited for a ton of songs in both Infestissumam and Meliora. The others credited are Klaus Ahlund (Producer of Meliora), Gustaf Lindstrom (Mummy Dust), and Johan Lindstrom (Deus in Absentia.) So I do not understand why Tobias would credit them, but not Simon. Also no one that actually had contribution in writing sued. Something here isn’t adding up.
Another main problem was the payment. Now it is his project and they were hired musicians. Even Martin agreed that they were hired musicians. There was no contract for payment. I do not know enough about why he wasnt paying them and at the end of the day only the ghouls and Tobias will ever know. So on the payment matter we cannot judge either side since we dont know the whole story.
Another thing I found out was that the suing ghouls endorsed a go fund me that used Tobias’ brother who passed away as emotional leverage. I also do not think the current ghouls who all have successful careers aside from Ghost would still be there if Tobias was a toxic as they said.
Anyways no matter who was in the right here, it is Tobias’ project and it always has been. In my opinion the only ones with any right to sue were Simon and Martin since they contributed the most and were there almost since the begging. The other suing ghouls were not.
i cant believe they used tobias brother as leverage. no matter who you are thats not okay to use someone elses death to your advantage that was pretty messed up (not saying you think its okay just stating my opinion on that)
as for everything else, it was all just a bunch of he said she said when it comes down to it. If tobias is as toxic as the other ghouls says he was why would the current ghouls (and ghoulettes) stay with him for this long. but i can also understand wanting credit and recognition
the truth lies with the ghouls and tobias all they can really do is move forward in their own paths and do better for the future :))
Is Tobias (papa) and the ghouls on good terms??
@@getmypastamasta8670 Sorry im a bit late to reply, as far as I know not with the lawsuit ghouls. He is on good terms with Martin though.
As I understood, the former ghouls said that they actually were paid - but just that: They were paid for their perfomances but not in royalties for the album. Some of the ghouls were quite new in the band before the lawsuit (like 2015) so it doesn't make much sense to me why they would be entitled to those royalties and as the court said: they weren't.
Tobias once said in an interview (don't know if that applies here) that the many rules he(they) had in order to keep their anonymity was not in favor for everyone. So it was about recognition too, as well as compansation for album royalities. They also claimed that they were in the band since the begining which was not the case.
Sad how it went. But I'm excited for the new ghouls and happy to know who papa is. Happy everything turned out well for tobias and the new ghouls.
Being a hired gun is tricky. It really depends on the artist you're working for. Most of the time you are rediculously underpaid, cut out of the creative process. Yet still expected to behave at shows as if you're a full band member.
If you want to look at the average of how this relationship goes, look no further than Trent Reznor (NIN) and Richard Patrick(Filter/ formally side man NIN). It was grueling to work for Trent. He generally ignored creative contributions from Patrick. Until he sensed one of his songs was a hit. Then tried to get him to give the song to NIN for basically free.
He didn't credit Patrick for the guitar parts he came up with. He would just urge Patrick to start his own band. As if it were tough love.
At one point Patrick was so low on money he couldn't afford to eat or pay his rent. He went to Trent. Who instead of loaning him money or paying him more. Promptly told him a pizza delivery was hiring down the street if he wanted to make extra money to supplement. So Patrick left and started Filter.
Where he promptly treated his side men the same way. Even made them sleep on the tour bus instead of a hotel so he could keep more money. By the way, Patrick freely admits this.
Not all relationships are like this. Some artists and bands pay their side men well, credit them and treat them as band members. Some eventually become full band members. But the story I told above is the most common. Though I see Tobias' pov. It's a tough situation for all.
The only reason Tobias is more recognized is because of the lawsuit. Before that he never showed his face in interviews
Edit: Damn. Thank you all for so many likes. It's very much appreciated!
Spot on. I don't think he'd ever have stepped into the public eye if not for the lawsuit. Probably made him think "the damn cats out of the bag, may as well set the record straight".
@@iain2080 This is on record as being true. He needed to get in front of the media as himself before he was outed in a shitty courtroom battle. He was wise to do so.
@@iain2080 Hey im kinda new, but what lawsuit made him show his face?
@@hellthedats I think we was being sued by the previous group of nameless ghouls for not being compensated fairly.
He was in a group photo with no mask taken by one of the members of Behemoth but it went viral before they could delete it
I have always felt that Tobias was fair in his dealings with band mates. And he’s right-no one else takes on the legal responsibilities nor the investment capital like he does.
It’s crazy because it’s his thing. He built it and he calls the shots. The man is very businesslike and shrewd, and I respect that.
Except he was a scumbag stealing the Papa name and didn't recognise the original creator
@@endless_limes wait, so Tobias didn’t come up with the whole papa emeritus thing?
@@noahhecker6672 Nope.
I'm also sure he didn't write all the music or credit his bandmates after taking an idea. Pretty messed up to take an artist's work and name from them. To clarify I love this band, and his voice but ive always thought it was pretty messed up that I have no idea who wrote some of those awesome guitar and bass lines
I think Martin Persner would disagree
Tobias is a genius. He created the concept and worked it into the awesomeness it is today. I love the ghouls, but it’s a genius move to be able to replace them as necessary.
Like it hasn't been done before....😆
I've been in bands for years and I can assure you it's much better having musicians who aren't driven by the need to gain personal attention. Invariably the attention junkies who need their egos constantly massaged are the ones who create the most problems. Tobias Forge not only has a killer concept with Ghost, but it gives him the perfect pretext to demand that the musicians have a healthy attitude towards their roles in the band.
especially if the band members want to remain anonymous like ghost was for so long :)) I feel that a band like ghost is really good for musicians who just want to play and do their thing and then just fall back into the crowd
i also find it cool for those who have stage freight especially since no one will know who you are
Ghost is Tobias’s brain child, and if it wasn’t for him applying his business mindset to the band, it would not be the behemoth that it is to this day. The man deserves all the credit for doing something that is so few & far between with hard rock and metal nowadays.
Keith May i have a citation for that
@Keith hate is a terrible thing! Let it go!
@@boballen1893 it’s not hateful to want the man who created this invention and made it what it is today to be recognized for that and not want them to be drug down by those who just wanted the money. That’s not hateful at all
@@baileylarson2661 maybe there’s a misunderstanding. Who are you referring to?
@Jacques De Molay The Papa character wasn't his idea, yes but without him, Ghost would never be what it is today. During Opus, he knew what the next album was gonna be like
During Infestissimum, he knew what Meliora was gonna be like and so on. He writes and arranges all songs except a few. Plays all instruments then gets a sessions band to record what HE wrote. He owns Ghost and his own company that controls everything Ghost related. He's a damn smart businessman. So he perfected EVERYTHING.
Keep them anonymous. It’s part of the gimmick. Every other band is too mainstream and the members are too outspoken. The anonymity is perfect. It works. It’s different. It’s part of the reason why Ghost is great. Keep the Papas and Cardinal. I hope they never change.
I’m ready to play if he needs another guitarist, I don’t mind being nameless
Ikr I'd literally kill to play with them, I don't fucking care about recognition
Same! Lol
If you join , ill forget your name Stephen , i promise lol
@@thenextbondvillainklaussch3266 but how would you know it's him?😂
I better be getting paid before anything.
Ghost is my favorite band to date. But I loved them way more when it was all a mystery.
...Legit. I was kind of bummed when the lawsuit forced Tobias into the limelight.
I felt bad for him tbh
He didn't want to be outed, and he was. I can't imagine how he felt
@@maya.melodyy Hey im kinda new, but what lawsuit made him show his face?
@@hellthedats I think it was something with old bandmates? They sued him or something
From the business perspective, Tobias is a genius. And I agree totaly with him, about the model of Ghost band. He is in charge, and making decisions. He only wants talented musicians to play with him. And he dont want all of this shit around, with to many chefs in his kitchen. Disagreeing with him, questioning his opinions and decissions. That's how great bands quits the job. As some of you probably dont know, he is also a composer, and most, even i think almost everything about how Ghost sounds, and what shape it has today is mostly his decisions. Also people always have a choice and making a councious decisions to be a part of this band.
The band will always be Papa Emeritus and his Ghouls. That’s the fun of it.
I love the premise of Ghost because it can literally be anyone under the masks, it's not about the person or idol, it's about the music and the sound.
Tobias : You're going to be a nameless Ghoul.
Random Guitarist : But can people Know my Name?
Tobias : Next
Your name is Fire, you are the lead guitarist, that is what must be known.
Tobias : You’re going to be a nameless Ghoul.
Random guitarist: Can I get paid the same as you?
Tobias: Next
@@kushmoneygirls5075 XDDD
What's funny is that when you see them live, he takes time to introduce each and every member of the band, and they're all named GHOUL!!! It's hilarious!
This is how, children, you are fired from a job almost at the exact moment you are hired.
I personally love the anonymity of the band. If I had my way, I would never have found out who the Papas were.... the mystery really adds to the appeal for me. I will never look up the identities of the ghouls; it would really detract from the fantasy of their image, which is part of why I love them so much. In that same regard, I really appreciate each individual for what they bring, especially TF for his genius and charisma. Thank you, Ghost, fuck I can't wait for the next album!
I agree! Honestly knowing who Papa is sort of spoils it a bit. Still fantastic but I loved the mystery involved. It felt otherworldly. Now they are just human.
i wouldn't wanna look up the identities of the nameless ghouls either. even when it's papa, i rarely think of him as tobias forge. just papa emiritus.
The latest album is awesome.
Was Impera worth the wait?
@@mnrs1327 empatically yes!
I just like listening to them, don't care if it's The Backstreet boys under those masks
I would love it if it were 😅👍🏼
@Parsival I agree (If my expectations were that they would be a Metal band) but in fact they are a pop band..
Had it not been for the "law suit" I would not have know who ANY of the people in Ghost were. The people who sued ruined their own history in a lot of ways, had they kept anonymous, they would still be in the biggest new band in the world. However, they are now unknowns STILL and Tobias is STILL Papa/Cardinal and Ghost are heading to the levels of Festival headliners!
Magna Carta cartel.
@@andrewhudson2467 Yes, I know who MCC are, but still, they are not Ghost... Not now...
@@andrewhudson2467 MCC is still very unknown in the states. They don’t even have a wiki page, so yes, the lawsuit didn’t help them out in any manner in terms of name recognition.
@@andrewhudson2467 pretty much the only people in the states who know who they are only know them through their affiliation with Ghost.
Of course prior to the lawsuit, the Tobias rumors (that he was singer) had been going around for a while.
The nameless ghouls didn’t want “recognition,” they felt they were owed equity and ownership in the band. There’s a distinction and that’s why they lost the case. Surprised people can’t tell the difference.
I blame that partially on how music media outlets framed the ghouls leaving and the lawsuit. Loudwire, especially.
@jhan bass I believe some of them were part of the writing process on the earlier albums but the writing credits just say “A Nameless Ghoul writer”. So it couldn’t really be proven as no contract or sorts were made at the time
I'm sure the man knows wtf he's talking about since he worked with him on a daily basis on tour, and heard their complaints that they weren't getting recognition as they would with other bands; as well as their complaints expecting to be permanent paid members of the band.
@@98Nintendoguy The only other Nameless Ghoul who really contributed to the writing was Martin and he wasn't part of the lawsuit. Tobias wrote 90% of the music.
@@Gregbaltzer that's a completely made up statistic if I ever saw one
I still cant get my head around tobias also being the alter ego front man of ghost. I love that the ghouls are nameless, it all adds to the mystery and fun.
Which one? Trick question, he's all of them haha! He's been all the Papas, the cardinal, special ghoul, probably more than that over the years honestly. I've always just thought that was incredibly damn impressive
Great line of questioning and great answer by Tobias. I love how assured he is of his rationale.
Remember when Rick Wright, a founding member of Pink Floyd, was brought back as a contract/ hired musician for The Wall tour? And he was the only one who made money. The other three foot the bill and lost. Sometimes it’s ok to be just the hired hand.
Its in the same vein of being a Heartbreaker to Tom Petty or an E Street Band Member to Bruce Springsteen or a (Delaware) Destroyer to George Thorogood or a Blackheart to Joan Jett or on and on and on. And each of those had members in their bands for years and even decades. Each one dedicated, loyal, not rocking the boat, listening to the boss, making $$$ and being able to say they were a Heartbreaker, member of the E Street Band or a Destroyer or a Blackheart, etc...
The anonimity makes it like dancing when no one is looking. Win win.
As much as a jerk Tobias can be, I gotta side with him. Ghost was his idea and he wrote all the music. His contract in the lawsuit stated that all the "Nameless Ghosts" would not be credited, only paid to tour with him plus bonuses, out of his own pocket, which sounds like a good deal. They willingly agreed to that. They never wrote any of the songs or helped him in composition, they just toured with him for live events. Tobias is in the right here
I think you need to find and read the transcripts from the court proceeding. Yes, Tobias was the creative leader of the band, but the evidence showed they all intended to create a band, in which they would share profits. The former Ghouls won their appeal, and Tobias settled with them out of court.
@@brandonbingle4716 Lol what? The four guys who tried to sue Forge lost their case and were ordered to cover Forge’s legal fees. Stop making things up.
@@07foxmulder Correct. "The accuser sends the bill."
@@brandonbingle4716 this is what I'm trying to figure out. I feel like there wasn't a clear indication to the band members what their role was. It seems to me they felt they were a band until they asked Tobias about where all the money was. Then he shit canned them.
@@07foxmulder No you stop making shit up. The initial trial was won by TF yes but the appeal court disagreed with the original verdict which meant it was going back to trial, the trial was delayed and ultimately just before the new trial date the trial was stopped with TF and the Ghouls making a secret deal. What they agreed upon isn't revealed to the public and both parties wanted to keep the matter quiet.
3:06 He must be talking about Omega, Martin Persner. He (co-)wrote some of their songs. Year Zero and Zenith for example..
Man, I miss the guy. Excellent musician, great stage presence and just a very nice person. It's sad he had to go because he was definitely a real asset to Ghost..
I think Tobias is definitely brilliant. He has a real talent for writing juicy, catchy and accessible songs and he certainly has vision. As a musician who isn't all that into metal, I can say that his compositions and productions really are something else. He has written some really excellent stuff. Simple and compact, yet brilliant, catchy and very musical, not unlike some of the great classical composers.
He has - obviously - always been the creative mastermind behind everything Ghost did, always planning ten steps ahead and he therefore tends to be a bit of a control freak, which is the downside of working for him. He's very clear about that: The Ghouls work for him, not with him.
I very much admire the things he accomplished in such a short time, but just imagine if someone like him could allow another musician of equal creative excellence to enter his realm and really work with instead of for him (like Lennon and McCartney for example): Imagine what would happen then..
@WhatsTigUpToNow ? Yes he was definitely talking about Persner at 3:06, literally saying: 'I started this band in 2006 and f+cking no one that has ever been in the band, except for one person that was in the band for the five first shows, was ever there with me', later on he means, at their first live shows, that actually started in 2010.
So this one person is definitely Persner he was talking about as he was there from the beginning in 2010 and quit on his own in 2017, stating he was with them for the whole 7 years. Do your homework before correcting people erroneously. Who else in the world would he be talking about then??
I believe he was talking about Gustaf Lindström. Gustaf Lindström didn't contribute musically but did have a huge influence in the idea and execution of ghost. He was the bassist for a couple of shows in 2010.
Either way, he pays people to be his BACKING band. It's his project and band.
@@pipschannel1222 Simon Söderberg and three other ex-bandmembers sued Tobias Forge in 2017 and they all left Ghost in 2016. Persner has got the recognition for some song-writing in the past but Simon (2010-2016 in Ghost) feels he never got the recognition for co-producing the first two albums. They had an oral agreement in the beginning and that was the problem here...You should always write a deal/contract with the label/partner so you have that as a proof because you never know how the future will turn out and in Sweden we don´t sue people unless we are really sure that we can win the case and in this case all the four ex-members lost twice in court so they had to pay all the heavy costs aswell...what a disaster that must have been.....it feels like this case is pretty unusual...as most of the time an agreement between the two parts are written to avoid a trial in court...and now also in the higher court...it must have been about a lot of money because why all the hassle otherwise...but it seems that the lawyers involved must have fooled Simon somehow or not informed him what happens if they lose the case....or they were very sure they could win the case...
@VeganGhost FanForLife You don´t have the whole picture and Tobias isn´t a saint in all this...I have done some research about the case...look at my reply to Pip´s Channel....people don´t sue people for no reason...at least not in Sweden...that is too stupid to do...
if you want recognition...might I suggest that joining a band as a hired gun that explicitly hides your identity is probably not the right move
The four “Nameless Ghouls,” were revealed to be guitarist Simon Soderberg (Alpha), keyboardist Mauro Rubino (Air), guitarist Henrik Palm (Ether) and drummer Martin Hjertstedt (Earth), in court documents from 2017.
However, the lineup has completely changed, now.
@@dgj70094 some people on Twitter figured out who the new ghouls are, which ruined the mystery for me
@Iron Reagan I prefer this bigger band live... I like the real sounds and not those backing tracks they use to use live...
@Iron Reagan Aye and woman in it too.... totally became a an overfeminized shit
Ummmm Martin Persher?
I do understand why Tobias would want to maintain the business model of ghost in keeping the ghouls as a hired group of musicians rather than part of the band itself as there are so many people in the music business who would take that and run it into the ground if he didn't keep ultimate control of it. It definitely helps to keep the music project stable and consistent over time, that's for sure. However, I think ghost would benefit so much from him opening up to permanent musicians and writing input - don't get me wrong, I fucking love his stuff but I can see it becoming stagnant over time if only Tobias is writing it, it's very difficult to keep music fresh without the input of other people.
Well he does have help writing the music. He has help from very good swedish song writers and musicians. He is not doing it alone.
He does some collaboration with the guys from Opeth. I don't know how much, but he has spoken about them.
There are a few co-writers credited so he does not write all of it himself.
Tobias, Simon S., & Martin P. we're in different Bands for a long time & we're very good friends. That's half of the "early" Ghost Lineup but It's always been Tobias' Band. Identities were pretty much kept under wraps until the Lawsuit, when tne anonymity was lost. NIN is Trent Razor, Ghost is Tobias Forge. Like Reznor, he writes all the songs & lyrics. Musicians who play in the Studio & live in concert are more or less considered "Paid Performers." That definition doesn't sit well with a lot of other Musicians & Fans but that's really just how it is. You do see them having fun with each other on stage & that's great to see. In general & with Social Media, it's really hard for anyone to keep their anonymity. Just my opinion on this... Been loving Ghost since they first Toured the States. Eclectic, catchy, and deep Tunes. Always killer, live Shows too. 🎶💯🤘
As BB King said, "I'm paying the cost to be the boss!"
I love the first album, great songwriting. I feel like anonymity is definitely part of the mystique of the band. He should have the band members sign an NDA 😂
From what I’ve read in the comments the reason why “prequelle “ is so different than the first 3 is because it was written solo by Tobias. The first 3 had him and his ex friends input which he finalized in court stating it was just him. So I have no effing clue wth is going on 😂.....
In my opinion Tobias is the guy that had the idea and vision to save traditional hard rock and big stage shows. Alice Cooper and Kiss are older now and someone has to carry the torch.
Ghost is more than a band. It's a play an ensemble. The spectacle is the experience. What you're seeing and hearing on stage is in it's entirety is Ghost. The mask makes anyone replaceable to keep imagery going.
Exactly!
The musicians in the band got hired to play material that was already recorded. They know that. So for them to say they arent being paid fairly need to be better negotiators. Its a business and they are hired to do the work. Believe me, they knew what they were getting into. Watch the documentary, Hired Gun.
If an artist writes all of the music themselves and they have people play it during shows, you are a hired musician. You don't have a say if you don't have input.
I know exactly how he feels. In my band it's always been me who takes the risks, pay musicians what little I've got left after I've spent a LOT on the show and hunting record deals all over the world whilst the band watch TV at home with their families. I make all the music. I'm up for days and nights to plan and write songs and then come to me and make demands... well, get the f out.
I wish you all great fortunes in the future, it is hard work behind it.
Good luck 🤞
Yea I know how that is. I had an entire band threaten to quit when they found out I made more than they did. I was booking, and supplying over $20,000 worth of PA and lighting and they had the balls to say they wanted equal pay or they quit. I immediately contacted multiple venues and told them the band would be done in the next few weeks and stopped booking the gigs. Two or three weeks later they were asking "Where's the schedule and why aren't we playing any gigs next month?" I said "You want gigs A. Go buy your own shit B. Book your own gigs. How's that for equality? I was the only one smart enough to keep a "Big Boy job" throughout my career and when Covid hit most of them were either 100% jobless or playing low rent dive bars for practically zero money!
@@Cantstandtherock People need reality checks, bad.
Anyone needs a bass player,im just looking to be in a band that actually plays,i careless about being payed
The thing about not getting any recognition is.. you dont build a name for yourself. So if and when you leave the band nobody knows you. So you kinda start from square one in a way
Yeah the only way I would agree to that would be if he paid me a ton of money, because by removing an artist's name from their work and taking credit for it, he owes his former band mates a lot
Edit of course if hes writing every piece then that's cool but i imagine he is stealing writing or ideas from these people legally
Just because these people are nameless to Tobias doesn't mean they're nameless to the people in the music business. I doubt these people are sitting in the dressing room with their masks on. People know who they are.
Tobias writes every lyric, every riff… drums… keys…. He writes these songs. Hiring ppl to play them live Bc obviously he can’t play five instruments and perform- doesn’t make them Ghost. Tobias IS Ghost…
If you hired a clown to entertain at a child’s bday party and then that clown started greeting guests, saying “thanks for coming” or when someone says “wow the decorations are awesome” and the clown says “thanks! A lot of effort went into this party!” He was hired to perform, he didn’t pay for the party, put up decorations or chose a theme, send invitations or make food, buy gifts. So why does the clown want recognition for a party he just showed up to?
That’s exactly what he’s saying… he hired clowns and they wanted credit they didn’t earn or pay for.
He has hired songwriters but nobody who plays in the band for the shows is involved in creating. They play the music that comes from him.
If he wrote every riff then why can't he play them when he's behind a guitar??? 😂😂😂
Martin Persner and Henrik Palm are responsible for that. Research is key.
I loved when ghost was total anominity and people generally, genuinely and just simply couldn't figure fire out who the papa was.
I really loved that
He was the captain, the rest were the crew. The band never was on equal grounds, as it's his brainchild. Kinda like Daron Malakian and Scars on Broadway situation.
Let’s all accept the fact that Ghost wouldn’t be Ghost without him! The songs are his creation even if other people contributed it was mostly his mind behind the music and to me the music is everything!
ghost died after Martin left. The new album sucks ass.
@@SoulWeasel69 That’s ok man not everyone is going to like everything. You do you.
@@SoulWeasel69
Strongly disagree. Every album is a killer.
But you’re entitled to your opinion.
the stig plays all the instruments at the same time. true fact!
Tobias is smart and talented and he didnt want anyone else to fuck up HIS band ... He did it the right way and most people see that but, some people just lack the business mind-set to understand that.
Too bad it became a musical theater act.
@@pauliescott
Too good***
That’s what he intended anyways. And it’s working fabulously.
classical pov from the bandmembers. I always loved Ghost as a concept. Not knowing who was behind the mask was fascinating. Now that we know, I still love the music, that is in the center of my attention!
Reminds me of the stig situation back in the day with top gear. The want to be recognised for playing an anonymous character is certainly ironic.
Personally I'd love it, I'm a musician and an introvert so I used to love playing songs live and then wanted to be left alone in the bar after. It's like a dream situation haha
But that said I totally understand why if you were the calibre of musician to be touring the world with ghost, that you'd certainly wanna put that on your resume, and to have to pretend you didn't have what is probably your greatest success as a musician would be tough for some people. I guess it comes down to whether being in ghost is enough for you, or if you need to have your cake and eat it too.
On one hand the anonymity is cool but the music biz is hard core and to have a band like ghost on your resume is a huge boost and they deserve that
I agree with Tobias 100% it’s not like any of the original members were not paid... and most of those guys were more interested in Holding MCC together.... Tobias has found success with Ghost now and they just want to try to get in on it
Ghost is amazing.. blows my mind how so many ppl HATE them
who hates them and why? I'm afraid I've failed to explore this band, and wouldn't know where to start
@@ViviPestilenz that's helpful, thanks!
I didn't realize they were that hated. They're so good!
@@ViviPestilenz ya god forbid they change and evolve ... “they’re not metal” ... don’t remember Tobias saying they were lmaoo 🤣
I've never listened to Ghost. I don't know anything about them. Except that one of them is named Tobias Forge. I will never forget.
It was Forged into your memory!
Well yeah some people dont like being recognized. Just think what it would feel like with everybody wanting to stop you and talk or take photos of you all the time. I dont blame them at all.
The only reason he was "unmasked" in the first place was the lawsuit
Of course he started the band, no one denies that. However, acting as if the other guys didn’t contribute anything is just wrong.
The meat of the matter lies in how the contracts were laid out, if there were any to begin with. Linton Rubino and Megan Thomas, for example, knew that they were “hired on” members of the band. I know Gustaf left on his own accord, and I’m assuming Rikard did as well. Ludvig wanted to only be a session drummer for Ghost.
But everyone else? Simon, Martin P, Mauro, Henrik and Martin H? Why would they be under the impression they were only hired guns when other lineups had an actual contract stating they were temporarily hired guns?
It’s all years old at this point, and I know the guys have all gone on to their own new careers, but I can’t help but feel that there was something wrong with how management handled the situation. Go back and read the documents and the trial transcripts. Tobias even seems shocked when management brings up “contracts”.
You’re right . Unfortunately they were all naive.
Ghost is like Nine Inch Nails, it's Tobias' baby and he calls the shots.
Ministry : Al jourgensen, Wednesday 13: Mr 13. You really don't need a band if you can write, play, on record then (hire) for touring.
Tobias is NOTHING like Trent...Trent writes EVERY piece of sound within NIN music he just needs people to help bring it to life on stage...and Trent isn't a complete egomaniac douchebag wannabe satanist
@@ILTSC43 Exactly, Tobias writes everything and just hires people to help live, similar to Trent Reznor.
@@patrickr.452 He basically wrote Opus Eponymous but every album since has multiple co writers and the next album will be a group effort...Trent has more talent in his pinky finger!
@@ILTSC43 To be fair, Tent collaborates with other songwriters as well.
The lawsuit is over Tobias Forge won. Now we can just listen and enjoy. Tobias is brilliant!
When was the last time any of the ghouls had a interview..I miss that. They were fun and gave us more
I have never seen a ghoul give a interview... All the ghoul interviews I have seen have always been tobias in ghoul costume.... Im sure it was just easier for him to throw that on and do the interview that way...
@@ces0374 there were plenty of interviews with the other ghouls lol especially omega
@@CarolaTesla
Not that many. Around 5/7 interviews with Martin P., and two of them were with Simon. I could be wrong though. It’s been a long while since I watched them.
LOVE this man!
Ghost isn't Ghost without Tobias but it's not Ghost without those goofy and fun loving ghouls!
Smart man...thinks before he speaks.
Hey it's papas band. He made it. He nursed it. Blood sweat and tears. These guys knew that before they signed on. You can't outshine the creator.
Only if you not Dimebag
@@Vladislav_Postnikov Dimebag was one of the creators...so technically it was his and his brothers band.
its an art project,..thats what i figure. they went from being good to getting even better so i like how they are evolving.
Took me a while to realize dude was dressed as a ghoul doing interviews and that papa wasn’t replaced every album
I think im jealous of this man, and what he's created. Haha. Very admirable, and inspiring.
As a drummer and past hired gun to a few bands I would love to have an opportunity to play ghost music and be a nameless ghoul 🙊! 🤘🏽 No questions ask. Sign me up.
It's his band, his intellectual property, contracts are at the table, if someone signs it, means he agrees to terms, dunno where is the problem.
(Guitarist's Dream)Tobias: Hey man, it was great to meet you, but you really would take the anonymity to be part of Ghost over the public knowing who you are?
Me: Every fucking day, all day! You're the boss, the writer and director. Sign me up!!
I know who they all are and what they look like. But I tend to think of them as themselves as sort of different entities than their ghoul personas, which is what they basically are, personas.
I saw Ghost a few weeks ago. They were fucking amazing
He's right. It's HIS idea. Ghost is actually a solo artist show. The music, the lore, the whole fucking thing is just him. Something similar happened with Bon Jovi. Jon became famous without having a band and THEN he hired everybody else. He's the only one that's actually signed. Let the creators TAKE ALL THE CREDIT and be happy they choose you.
Okay but the band put effort and skills in what they do, so it's not really right to pretend the band is not actually important, the music IS important, lot of bands actually revolve around only one member work, he might compose and keeping up with the lore,okay but ask yourself, would people still like the band and be interested if the instrumental was shit?
@@ssfghjgghhgrdcbbnmjgddxcggg I get your point but would this band even have a following without this songwriter and creator? Just instrumental metal? What comes first? They can be replaced, even with someone better. He did say, tho, that he would LOVE for the band to stay the same. He appreciates not having to "explain" things to anybody. He's a control freak, yes, but because he knows that what he created is unique. Wouldn't you want to be fully credited for something so original? I'm a composer myself, and even though I can give credit no problem, if it's my idea, it's my idea.
If you went into an agreement from day one to be a band collectively then so be it. But if it's the brain child of one person and your along for the ride, then you know what the deal is. There is some awesome musicianship in this music so I can see wanting to be recognized for that, but if it's all you and not Tobias then go out on your own and get the recognition, it's easy right?
They've tried. It's not worked out so well for them.
@@CaptainFantastik1
I mean… some of them have Priest now. 😏
A perfectly reasonable argument.
I think the problem with anonymity arises when the credit for the songwriting goes to “a bunch of nameless ghouls” or “a nameless ghoul writer”. If they contributed to the composition of the song their name should be on there. Martin was smart enough to get his writing credit in under his own name. The ex-ghouls that are suing who may have contributed to the music have nothing as “a nameless ghoul” can be anyone.
And as much as I love the work Tobias does I go to the concerts to see the entire band (honestly the ghouls are a lot of the fun). If it was just him up there and a record being played I wouldn’t go. Appreciate the hand you’ve been dealt and the amazing ghouls you have now.
Writing credit never went to "a bunch of nameless ghouls." When it comes to ownership and royalties these things can't be vague. It has always been "A Ghoul Writer" which is the alias Tobias uses. A Ghoul Writer is only him. It can't be anybody else for legal reasons. Martin was credited as Indio Marcato. That is him and nobody else. The only other Ghoul to receive credit was Tobias' buddy and first bassist Gustaf Lindström on Mummy Dust. The other dozen Ghouls over the years didn't contribute to writing. If they did, their names or assigned aliases would be there. Songwriting credits weren't an issue in the lawsuit. Those four former Ghouls wanted to see what the profits were and if it were a lot, they wanted a cut of it.
There is no court case anymore. TF won it.
The other aspect is that its hard to play with a mask on. I play sloppily enough without one
I have worn a few masks at gigs over the years and it SUCKS! That and wigs. Once I was chewing gum and the wind blew part of my wig into my mouth and the wig hair got all chewed up in the gum and accidentally swallowed it and the hair was stuck in my throat so I yanked the hair of the wig and pulled the gum out of my throat. Very fun!
Ghost is Tobias glorified solo gig. Nothing more. It’s his baby it’s his creation. The way he runs it is how he gets to run it. Phil Collins solo stuff is the same why but when it comes to Genesis then it’s a collective thing. When someone is hired by Tobias to play a ghoul, they should know what there in for.
True. And by no means are they to EVER offer writing anything with him. He will rip them off.
What was right in their contracts, he gave full disclosure. It's sour grapes it got really famous and they want more. It's not what they agreed too.
i like how it’s anonymity,
it’s Papa and his Ghouls (kittens from hell)
Honestly I don't think I could handle fame yet I'd love to entertain a large crowd on a regular basis. I think it makes total sense to anyone who has seen how the public can be to celebrities. I just want to eat my lunch without being bothered or having to be an asshole about it.
How is this dude's English so good?
That's what he got out of his deal with the devil.
He’s finishe the itw with his Papa Accent it’s funny !
Don’t Forget that Dave Grohl and Paz L’enchantin (or maybe it’s the other bassist of the same band...) were in GHOST for couple of show back in time and they enjoy it, they really loves to be here but anonymly ! For big name like this artist are even if they are solo or with a band, everyone know who Dave Grohl is and who Paz is too ... it’s crazy thing !
At this Time, in actual GHOST Line up You have a Guy who made really big big dance radio hit around 2015... this Guy have an amazing voice, make multiple millions of views over the internet and thousand of people seing him live as solo artist and... he loves to be hère on ghost as « unnammed » or as a ghoul as backing vocalist + third guitarist and other instrument.... So... 🔥 respect for this Guy ...
And one from legendary death métal band BLOODBATH,
One of Djent band,
One chorist / piano / synth girl is big solo artist too who made millions view solo.. etc etc... it’s amazing
This is all similar to KISS...the anonymity was great for a while...but they realized at some point it just couldnt keep going...like once Peter and Ace left and went out without the makeup...it changed things within KISS....even now putting it back on as they did, its just not really the same
They need to have a RAWG. Gwar always used costumes, but every once in awhile, they did a show as themselves.
I wish every band was like ghost. Like I just wish it was normal to be anonymous ina successful music project. It's perfect.
Maybe because I’m older and a private person,
I would prefer the anonymity of this style. Thinking about it objectively it seems like being a “celebrity” would get really irritating quickly.
Worked for Papa on a resume should be enough recognition to be hired.
Honestly though, this whole thing is not a band it’s a project it’s just a project produced by one guy like panic at the disco, for the other guys or just employees I guess. I mean to his credit at least he went out and made ghost the project rather than himself. Which is pretty cool. Just like panic at the disco is the project instead of Brendon himself. In my opinion I believe this is a very efficient way to create your vision and create the sound you and you alone one, but without developing an ego to make it feel like it’s still not just not yours.
Regardless that yes this is Tobias' baby, ghost isn't Tobias forge, joe schmoe, John doe and Fred Rodgers, ghost is Papa and the Ghouls. That's just a fact and Tobias himself gets that.
Tobias is Ghost and any ghoul can be replaced... they are being paid well and have the ability to live a normal life outside of the band
You have that abillity in nearly every Metal Band.
@@NightPaddle if you think so ok do you think guys like Aerosmith/Metallica/ that are huge stars live normal lives if you do your delusional
Jeah, stars like Aerosmith and Metallica are these few exceptions I mentioned.
But look for example In Flames, who are from the same Country and are nearly equally well known: their former guitar and bass players now own a restaurant in Gothenburg and only fans do really care about this. 😅
@@InvUnk try any band started on 2010 or newer. Even Tobias who is now known, can walk down the street in any city in the US and nobody would likely recognize him either.
Mad respect for Tobias
Imagine Thobias all of sudden trying to claim he's just as much as a head of the band in MCC or Priest. No one would tolerate that and yet some people expect him to when it comes to Ghost.
What?
I like how trent handled it
Part of the mystique for me with both Ghost and Slipknot was the masks and costumes concealing the appearance and identities of the members. Finding out who they were lost that mystique for me although I know full well something like that couldn't be kept up forever. The difference between Ghost and Slipknot's membership secrecy policies is that Slipknot ended theirs willfully by engaging in side projects that required the members to speak n public without anything to conceal themselves while Tobias was forced to expose Ghost as himself and those were suing him were battling in court. It still doesn't take anything away from being able to enjoy the music because that aspect of their art still stands up on its own.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
He’s not wrong about who the “boss” is but he sounded really shitty right there. I would have worded it differently. 🤷🏻♂️
Well he has a right to be mad about it since they fucking sued him
He seems like a shitty person; however; it IS his ball and he can take it and go home whenever he wants....
@@TheJimmyClip If you watch more interviews and such you can see he is a great person.
Tobias changing band members is no different than King Diamond or Alice Cooper changing members. He IS the band.
Yeah, and the musicians that were in Alice Cooper's School Out and Trash are remembered with nostalgia, but after that most people just didn't care. The latter Alice Cooper albums, no one knows them. Perhaps the line up had something to do, who knows. But the same kinda happened with Ghost. Their peak was Meliora, and who were under the masks there? That's the thing a lot of people miss, he is not the band. He doesn't write all of it himself. Opus and Infestissumam are WAY different and it was different because there was a different line up. After Martin left Ghost it shows that he was a creative force, compare it with the new MCC stuff and you see what I'm talking about.
@@turbosinnermusic EXACTLY, most people who think Ghost was just Tobias have NEVER listened to MCC. You just listen to “Demon King” and it’s literally the sound of Infestissumam and Meliora all over it.
@@turbosinnermusic Meloria might be highly regarded as objectively their "best album." However, it was not their peak. In 2018 they played their first ever headline arena show and they keep getting more popular. Their last album was #2 on the US billboard and #1 in many other countries. This proves the band is only getting bigger and people are still flocking to it even with the lineup change. I love the new Ghouls and the personality they bring to the live performances. Yes the lineup changed, but if fans still love the music and the live shows, it doesn't matter who is behind the mask.
Right on. Good stuff.
As long as they are being payed, it's all good to me.
Should have stayed anonymous. Kind of like KISS in the 70s. The mystery was so cool. We really saw them as those characters. After the make up came off it was just another band
I agree...but I think because of the drama and lawsuits he had to be outed.
And not even a good band. KISS hid behind the masks and their music was average at best, the show and the makeup was what brought them to the level they were!
Martin Persner, Simon Soderberg, and Mauro Rubino were very much band members who busted their asses to make Ghost succeed.
They definitely were great and the best lineup in my opinion, but things change. Martin Persner wrote most of Year Zero, but he left the band. Axel was an amazing drummer and "too good to be in Ghost" as Tobias said, but he left. Simon was a great guitarist. Very talented but didn't really write songs. Same with Mauro Rubino. Martin H. on drums didn't contribute anything. Water (2015-2016) who later took over for Martin didn't contribute anything. Lastly, they were a hired band to take out on tour. Tobias used a sessions band on the Albums. Now look who's making millions. If a few crybaby's looked at their own contracts, stuck with the band instead of bitching at Tobias and taking him to court, they might still be in the band and making good money. Two members that played in 2017 are still playing in Ghost. They stuck it out and are now probably making good money.
My two favorite Ghost songs by far were co-written by Martin Persner (Year Zero and Zenith). Tobias Forge loves to pat himself on the back and make it sound like he did everything by himself but he had a lot of help from other people. He didn't even design the Papa Emeritus character.
Deffinatly, tobas is claiming they want to represent the band but really he want to be the only one representing the band he activity makes choices to make that happen. I think its down right shameful behavior, i often associate him with Gene Simmons
@@carlmadsen5734 They DON'T represent the band. They never did. Tobias/his sole company make all the decisions of Ghost. Every single decision. The Ghouls are a hired band. They don't write the songs, they don't come up with creative ideas, they don't book venues they take no risky business ventures etc. They are hired for one thing. To tour. That's all. Kiss is a completely different situation. In Kiss they all had creative control. I'm talking about the original lineup. Say what you want about Gene, he's a genius at marketing. Tobias gets paid the most because he takes the most risk. He takes on most of the responsibility. If the stage performers if Ghost don't like ANY aspect of performing in front of thousands and thousands of people, they can always pursue other ventures.
@@carlmadsen5734 Gene really wasn't the one making decisions in Kiss ( post 82). Paul was and has ever since.