Tilting Trikes Part 1 - Velomobile and Motorcycle Trike Tilting Mechanism Design

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  • Опубліковано 23 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 398

  • @frankie8762
    @frankie8762 2 роки тому +7

    Your a champion to share all these principles, all in all your card cut out concept is the best, one actually gets it

  • @davidvogl5447
    @davidvogl5447 2 роки тому +15

    Really informative for a person who wants to build a tilting recumbent. You’ve given me a far greater understanding towards this endeavour👍

  • @zapplespoon8917
    @zapplespoon8917 2 роки тому +18

    Thank you for sharing this information. I have been trying to make a working Velomobile design. It's very hard to find people willing to share their concepts.

    • @lewisbrodnax2682
      @lewisbrodnax2682 2 роки тому +2

      Try to find a blueprint for the original tilting sidecar on 20s-30' s Harley- Davidson rigs. I can't recall any more if that was a Harley or tilt- car patent. But talk to your local librarian, that's what they do... Find obscure source's of data in places you and I will never think of. Good luck + I'll catch you later.

    • @CraigLandsberg-lk1ep
      @CraigLandsberg-lk1ep 8 місяців тому

      Have you seen the F300 Life-Jet German prototype from the late '90's? Worth a look 😅

  • @chaosofpeace5150
    @chaosofpeace5150 5 років тому +48

    Please keep making videos sir. This was very educational for my own project.

  • @chrissmith7669
    @chrissmith7669 Рік тому +1

    Very interesting. I was looking at how to make an IRS trick tilt and this gave me food for thought

  • @fonwoolridge
    @fonwoolridge 3 роки тому +2

    Very interesting.... I will be back again for more inspiration on my project! Bravo!

  • @douglasgallardojr4759
    @douglasgallardojr4759 2 роки тому +1

    This is a beautiful video. The communication works perfectly.

  • @IvanQuaglia
    @IvanQuaglia 2 роки тому +1

    For ages I been "planning" to make a EV trike 1+1 in tandem with motorcycle parts, but, since i didnt have the time space or money im seriulsy thinkin a electrically assisted trike bike to start with, this exercise was really very informative. thanks

  • @skraman69
    @skraman69 2 роки тому +1

    Superb and systematic approach to arrive various solutions for tilting wheels

  • @projectastra8350
    @projectastra8350 3 роки тому +4

    Thank you for all your efforts, I have been thinking of building an electric trike and have been stumped for a long time on this issue.

  • @maxsainty9816
    @maxsainty9816 5 років тому +7

    I found this video to very interesting as I'm considering building my own velomobile

  • @INKonoclast
    @INKonoclast 26 днів тому +1

    Absolutely brilliant! As far as the differential issue is concerned, I have wondered if a solid shaft between 2 freehub wheels could serve the same purpose. This would allow the outer wheel to freely accelerate on corners while applying pedal force to the inner. As a bonus, it would function like a dif lock on slippery surfaces. There would, however, still be a lot of drivetrain design issues with the tilting

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  25 днів тому

      @@INKonoclast thanks - I’m sure that would work but as you say, mechanical complexity (and weight) would be an issue for probably very little practical benefit.

  • @Witsenburg
    @Witsenburg Рік тому +1

    Hi, I'm doing a similar exercise so thanks for posting this. What I am looking into is different tilt on the wheels, less on the outside of the turn and more on the inside, making the imaginary lines through the wheel axles meet in the centre of the turn.

  • @Gherking
    @Gherking 2 місяці тому +1

    An excellent video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge

  • @AuroraCypher
    @AuroraCypher 3 роки тому +3

    This is by far the most details built of the Tilting Trike ! I know im like 2 years late to this video but instant sub and love your build series

  • @MrSaemichlaus
    @MrSaemichlaus 4 роки тому +2

    Man this video is fantastic!! I'm working on something similar and this is a gold mine!

  • @sandiandlee
    @sandiandlee 4 роки тому +5

    That was excellent, Bravo!!! I build gravity racing vehicles and I have always thought a tilting suspension would be amazing, thank you for sharing such a vast amount of time and work!

  • @Mad.Man.Marine
    @Mad.Man.Marine 5 років тому +2

    Pretty cool. When ever I’m designing new machines. I always do cardboard and push pins. Works a treat and makes for real easy adjustments. Can’t wait to see what you build.

  • @BrianPalmerEDU
    @BrianPalmerEDU 5 років тому +2

    Thank you so much for this talk through of so many aspects that come to play in a suspension design like this. Much appreciated!

  • @joelrebelo7292
    @joelrebelo7292 2 роки тому +1

    beautiful explaination and amazing idea of testing different ideas. this is how i would do it.

  • @cliffordharley4322
    @cliffordharley4322 5 років тому +2

    Very interesting! Tilting seems to be the future of trike design!

    • @randominternetguy
      @randominternetguy 5 років тому

      It is, but even pros don't have the solution... maybe sk18 whatever with his wierd ass channel name and sick af asl.

  • @Plasmo20
    @Plasmo20 9 місяців тому +1

    @14:15. Could the straight vertical strut that the wheel mounts to be dished inwards? That might be easier than dishing the wheel? And if you placed the vertical strut behind the axle connection then you can add in some castor and potentially tuck the wheel in even further. Looking at my GoKart chassis as an example the offset and castor are adjustable according to the grip required on the day.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  9 місяців тому +1

      Yes I think that would all be possible. The important thing is the relative location of the pivots and the steering geometry. Once this is all decided, the parts themselves can be designed accordingly.

  • @realnutteruk1
    @realnutteruk1 5 років тому

    Fantastic piece of analysis! I've done most of this thinking before but without the pretty cardboard aided design. I don't have an aversion to FWD, so the image you showed of the tilting delta trike was right up my street.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      I am moving from cardboard to computer aided design for the next phase!

    • @daszieher
      @daszieher 5 років тому

      The velotilt project was for sale not too long ago. It has plugs and molds for the body and some design work

  • @kodicogburn935
    @kodicogburn935 3 роки тому +1

    This was very helpful. I did find success with slight separation with of the arms from the center point and using the t model but the t shape is just about 1/3rd the height of the space between the upper and lower arms. The points where the shocks connect to the t is the same as the inner pivot points of the arm. Then using the distance for the shock to measure out where it would attach to the lower arm. For body wise you may have to make a slight deviation in the body to allow room for the shocks which aerodynamically shouldn’t effect it to much. You can also prevent a lot of aerodynamic loss by using fine bristles on the slits which will allow it to essentially close the slit.

  • @necdetsaltek6790
    @necdetsaltek6790 3 роки тому +1

    That was excellent, Bravo!!! I

  • @robertlyndon2892
    @robertlyndon2892 5 років тому

    Nicely done and the cut out graphic made it crystal clear. Cheers.

  • @veridical22
    @veridical22 4 роки тому

    The minds and technology of Lithuanian engineering are rough diamonds.

  • @johanventer5730
    @johanventer5730 3 роки тому +1

    Great stuff now I need to learn english.😄 Greate job...

  • @Jacopo.
    @Jacopo. 5 років тому +2

    Super interesting analysis, thank you for your work.

  • @lewisbrodnax2682
    @lewisbrodnax2682 2 роки тому +1

    Few people today recall that the first Harley- Davidson side hacks we re of a tilting design. H- D didn't make them, that was a contract with a private co. During WW 11, the company made bus replacement parts. Afterwards that company was still in business, Nowadays they make the tilting platform buses in Los Angeles California.

  • @johnmoncrieff3034
    @johnmoncrieff3034 4 роки тому +1

    This is a very interesting video with a range of possible designs. The only thing I would say is you are having the single wheel on the same plane as the other two. As the single wheel is at least three/ four feet behind or in front of the other two the amount of scrub or lift can be ignored due to this change in the plane!

  • @truthseek1790
    @truthseek1790 5 років тому +3

    @Metal Machine Shop This appears to be the most comprehensive coverage on the subject on this platform. Congrats for that. No doubt many hope that this project comes to fruition and viewers get more information helpful to constructing the proposed vehicle. It is very curious that little is now heard of the much praised "Velotilt" trike with two rear wheels, first heard of about 2012. It looked so promising, while it's apparent absence from the market place suggests that it is still overcoming problems. Any light you could shed on this matter would be much appreciated. I look forward keenly to follow ups on this project. I am surprised that the topic of a leaning velo is not far more popular.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому +1

      Thanks for the comment! I'm not sure what happenend to the Velotilt, I haven't found any up-to-date news on the internet. Nice looking machine though. It uses a different sort of tilting mechanism that I didn't cover in my video.

    • @truthseek1790
      @truthseek1790 5 років тому

      @@MetalMachineShop Remain keen to know if this velomobile is being built and hope you will advise along the way. Thanks for the velomobile upload.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      I'm still working on the design so I'm not sure whether I will ever build it. Once the design is finished maybe I will share it with the velomobile community to see whether it's good enough to build! I'll try to upload another video in due course.

  • @Gallardo6669
    @Gallardo6669 5 років тому +6

    Best way to create prototypes in smale scale is Lego technik!!!!! Thx for the great video.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому +4

      Ha! I actually did that. Ran out of bits though!

    • @daszieher
      @daszieher 5 років тому +3

      My experience is the same. 3D CAD takes the design to a next level.
      From my purely digital work I learned that a powered or at least partially powered vehicle is necessary to achieve gains from the heavy tilting mechanism.

  • @hafeexius
    @hafeexius 5 років тому +2

    Thank you for the educational video. Much appreciated!

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      hafeexius Thanks, glad you found it interesting!

  • @irsyansani6866
    @irsyansani6866 5 років тому +1

    nice information sir. thankyou so much. its can help me to finish my final project. please keep this video sir :)

  • @ruisilva6816
    @ruisilva6816 2 роки тому +1

    Hello good morning, excellent work do you think you can sell me the plans to build this piece.? Thank you very much.

  • @hermandurieux3247
    @hermandurieux3247 5 років тому +3

    Great Presentation, I’m working on an idea for a tilting trike recumbent myself. Challenging I must say, your approach is inspiring!

  • @mikek7153
    @mikek7153 5 років тому

    Thank you MMC, very very interesting, you saved me a lot of work. One mechanism you didn't try was two pivot points in the center on the lower arms and one on the top, the same they use on the Quadro, do post another video if you try this geometry please. Thanks again for going to all this trouble.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      Thanks! I think the Quadro design as you describe it would make the wheels angle outwards slightly relative to each other as the machine tilts or suspension compresses. The effect would be greater the further apart the bottom pivots are. I’m not sure what the advantage of this would be, but the Quadro seems to work pretty well!

    • @mikek7153
      @mikek7153 5 років тому

      MMS, I solved the above problem I discussed in my previous post (Quadro) simply by using your number 4b and turning it upside down, it would have the same result, I'm just wondering how Quadro solved this or didn't they ???? Correct me if I'm wrong but to have the correct geometry the top and bottom pivot points would have to have be aligned in the center such as in
      figure 2a.

    • @mikek7153
      @mikek7153 5 років тому

      Do let us know how you solved the steering, for your project. I would imagine it would be direct steering as in a push bike but with scooters and motorbikes the preferred method seams to be a tie rod arrangement, I'm exploring some sort of direct method of steering for motorbikes to keep the whole thing as light as possible.

  • @jankrix
    @jankrix Рік тому +1

    This is really informative! One question though, how to make the vehicle stand upright on stop without any support?

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  Рік тому

      Thanks - the normal way to do this is a tilt lock consisting of a modified brake disc and caliper.

  • @Secret4us
    @Secret4us 4 місяці тому +1

    Can you try to lean the body while keeping the camber of the wheels steady?

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  3 місяці тому

      I suppose it is possible but I’m not sure it would be a very satisfactory solution.

  • @Therapistinthewhitehouse
    @Therapistinthewhitehouse 5 років тому +16

    Very interesting, I’d love to see follow up vids on this project.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому +5

      More planned...!

    • @Therapistinthewhitehouse
      @Therapistinthewhitehouse 5 років тому +1

      Excellent.

    • @ASCENDU
      @ASCENDU 5 років тому

      Hi, you would also consider to follow up our tilting trike ASCENDU, we have a youtube channel, ua-cam.com/channels/u869xo02p4utwZpVxmCCaw.html

  • @amardeepberad3586
    @amardeepberad3586 4 роки тому +1

    Great Explanation Technique...

  • @sigfx
    @sigfx 7 місяців тому +1

    What if two rigid arms connected the two wheels and each wheel was on a linear guide, like a strut? Or two semi rigid arms that could bend like snowboards, and that would be the suspension?

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  7 місяців тому

      This might both be suitable options depending on what you are trying to achieve. Worth experimenting!

  • @pep2tize
    @pep2tize 11 місяців тому +1

    very interesting, perhaps you could use the buddy it self (a shell like) to transfer horizontal forces across. Could not see very clear the relationship to the driver's geometry.

  • @rnelbelg4441
    @rnelbelg4441 2 роки тому +1

    Is the ATV front end suitable for tilting reverse trike conversion?

  • @CrusaderSports250
    @CrusaderSports250 Рік тому +1

    Fourteen minutes very well spent, been considering this and the problems that arise for some time now, out of interest how big a problem is tyre scrub and if you mounted the lower arm where it met the tyre slightly higher and angled the wheej outwards, (positive camber), would that be of benefit,

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  6 місяців тому

      it might help, you’d have to make a model of some sort to prove it!

  • @한효진-z4g
    @한효진-z4g 4 роки тому

    이제까지본 강연중에 최고입니다.이해하는데 많은도움이되었네요. 만들떼 참고할게요

  • @MrSaemichlaus
    @MrSaemichlaus 4 роки тому +2

    Have you considered pushing the ideal geometry mechanism to the front or back of the wheel instead of on top? The horizontal bars would require quite some torsional rigidity but it would help with keeping it out of sight of the rider, keeping the body mounting points low and keeping the wheel size unconstrained.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  4 роки тому

      I haven’t put much thought into that option, but would certainly be worth considering! Simplicity and minimising weight would be a good test of success.

  • @2pi628
    @2pi628 4 роки тому +2

    Best Explanation video on UA-cam!!
    Thanks!

  • @andrewmclean1239
    @andrewmclean1239 7 місяців тому +1

    Awesome! Question. If you can engineer some body lift into it. Wouldn’t it more likely stay upright at slow speeds?

  • @osalbuos
    @osalbuos 2 роки тому +1

    Muchas gracias por todas sus explicaciones. Me encanta este diseño, pero en suramérica son muy poco empleados y las rutas para bicicletas no son muy seguras.

  • @eskanderx1027
    @eskanderx1027 Рік тому +1

    Great stuff!
    Thank you mate!

  • @rogergarcia3021
    @rogergarcia3021 5 років тому +1

    really like your evaluation, trail and error. where the center joints come together , please consider sliders that cross before connecting to shocks? thanks

  • @robinj6997
    @robinj6997 2 роки тому +1

    About the suspension and sideways tire-scrub; hossack suspension would solve this issue wouldn't it?
    The complexity and mass would increase though

  • @gemitalico1
    @gemitalico1 2 роки тому +1

    me gusto mucho la excelente explicación y los diferentes modelos y problemas que presentan, han sido de una gran ayuda para mi, quería sugerir en cuanto a la suspensión, porque no colocas un pequeño sistema de suspensión en cada rueda, igual que la que usas en la central y que cada rueda suspenda por individual, te voy a enviar un modelo de suspensión sencillo que usa una trike bike, buscare el link del vídeo y te lo comparto en otro msj

  • @duncancairncross
    @duncancairncross 8 місяців тому +1

    I was thinking about using forwards facing swinging arms - pivoting at about the same place as my bum fore and aft - I must get my scissors and cardboard out.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  8 місяців тому

      that should work as long as the tilting and steering geometry and preserved.

  • @ahjanfahrizal8086
    @ahjanfahrizal8086 Рік тому

    Can you explain how tilting works on a carver?
    I still don't understand how it works

  • @captarmour
    @captarmour 5 років тому +2

    what about having forward pivoting swing arms with shocks mounted to a pivoting arm that remains parallel with the ground? as the arms swing through their arcs, the variations will be in wheelbase instead of track. with limited wheel travel the variations in rake may be minimized by the length of the swing arms. for long travel suspension 4 arms may be required to keep rake more constant

    • @flannel2699
      @flannel2699 5 років тому

      captarmour - it may seem counter intuitive but if you model your idea, you'll find that at the road surface, there would indeed be a dramatic increase of track width with lean. All else being equal, the parallelogram maintains track width with lean.

    • @captarmour
      @captarmour 5 років тому

      @@flannel2699 oh yes you are so right! I was more concerned about scrub than track. I'll need to wrap my head around that.

    • @flannel2699
      @flannel2699 5 років тому

      captarmour - don't worry, it caught me out as well :)

  • @johnwhauserman
    @johnwhauserman 3 роки тому +1

    Thank You, Thank You, Thank You.

  • @stevedelaire6258
    @stevedelaire6258 4 роки тому

    Some insight from having built a bunch of human powered streamliners including 3 wheeled leaners.
    Weight and complexity are always a hindrance to efficiency when powered by fractional horsepower engines (humans).
    Lighter, simpler yields the best results.
    A 2 wheeler with side openings so either a foot or hand can touch the ground at a stop worked out the best ... for me.
    The speeds that can be attained with a good light weight human powered streamliner it truly amazing.
    Your results may vary.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  4 роки тому

      Hi, thanks for your comment! I totally agree that light weight and simplicity is the right way to go for out and out speed. I am prepared to sacrifice a bit (but not too much) of speed for practicality. I am pitching my design at reasonably practical year round (in UK) commuting type use, and and intending to use electrical assistance. I also have in mind a faster two-wheeled design. Anyway, it’s all still on the drawing board at this point!

    • @stevedelaire6258
      @stevedelaire6258 4 роки тому

      Lightweight and simplicity is a nice advantage for all weather, everyday practicality. Even when adding the weight of motors and batteries. This statement is based on years of complex testing and personal experience.
      All the best with your build.
      Your results may vary.

  • @AngelAndTheWolf
    @AngelAndTheWolf 5 років тому +1

    Do the two front wheels have to be beside the front of the body? If you moved them forward of the nose, they could be closer, and stay within the frontal area of the body. They could be two feet apart, providing stand-still stability, and faired individually for aerodynamic flow onto the nose. In addition, the nose would not restrict the vertical turning of the two wheels. You could employ a tilt mechanism to your handle bars, along with a standard rotating system for tighter corners. With the wheels close together, you could suspend them with a central shock.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      Hi, they don’t have to be beside the body. In moving them forwards you would be trading length overall for reduced width but you are right, the steering wheels could be closer together which would be good. You would need to allow clearance for the frame/chassis.

  • @DrXupetin
    @DrXupetin Рік тому +1

    Excelente trabajo. Estoy definiendo como hacer el basculante de mi futuro triciclo invertido. Gracias !!!

  • @quebuenavaina
    @quebuenavaina 2 роки тому +1

    Wow excellent video

  • @danielgotz1027
    @danielgotz1027 3 роки тому +1

    A tricky bit with the spring. Perhaps a torsion bar. Like an old pickuptruck.

  • @richarddavies7728
    @richarddavies7728 2 роки тому +1

    Excellent thank you for this.

  • @abru6872
    @abru6872 4 роки тому +1

    Sir, if we want tilting angle between 5 to 15 degree then what is the best solution

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  4 роки тому +2

      Nithin Varghese I think my design 4, or variants of it, would be the best basis for a solution.

    • @abru6872
      @abru6872 4 роки тому

      Metal Machine Shop thank you sir

  • @johanventer5730
    @johanventer5730 3 роки тому

    Greate job.
    What will work to get the bicycle self supported?

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  3 роки тому +1

      It should balance in the same way as a normal bike or like a reverse-trike scooter.

  • @uberdenwolken4564
    @uberdenwolken4564 7 місяців тому +1

    If you place the joints from the lower arms more to each side, the inner wheel will tilt more while the outer wheel tilts less.
    And if you add the steering you must have a straight line between the wheel ground contact point, the outer joint of the lower arm and the outer joint of the upper arm. With this turning axis you can steer easily without having the wheels to move or rub on the ground when steering.
    (I hope this made sense as I‘m no native speaker)

  • @RichardHauser
    @RichardHauser 5 років тому +1

    How about hubless wheels? And since I see others thought of it, also in hub suspension.

  • @Boslandschap1
    @Boslandschap1 5 років тому +1

    Would it be possible to have a design with the front wheels at a slight angle instead of them being orthogonal to the ground?
    At 5:18 you mention that one of the problems is that the lower pivot points of the parallellogram are offset relative to the contact point of the tires on the ground, creating a triangle that lowers the outer pivot and raising the inner pivot. If the wheels were angled inward at the bottom, it should be possible (geometrically) to lessen or completely eliminate this triangle.
    Disclamer: I'm not an engineer and neither did I play around with pivoting models, so I suppose there are very likely some indesirable consequences that I forgot about. Indesirable consequences I can think of myself is that the angle will cause the velomobile to broaden at the top of the wheels and the velomobile riding continuously on the side of the tires and/or wheels, which they were not designed for.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому +1

      Yes I guess you could do that but adding camber to the wheels could add a slight sideways force to the tyre rather than keeping the weight directly down through the centre of the wheel and tyre.

  • @stevenmitchell6347
    @stevenmitchell6347 5 років тому +2

    Incorporating torsion bars as the inner pivot shafts eliminates interference from shocks or springs as you depict them as well as maintains upright stance when stationary with a small amount of preload. Simple, lightweight and effective for a human powered vehicle.

    • @flannel2699
      @flannel2699 5 років тому

      Steven Mitchell - he's designing a free leaning trike. The suspension and tilting are decoupled.

    • @stevenmitchell6347
      @stevenmitchell6347 5 років тому

      @@flannel2699 That's why I suggested small torsion bars. Depending on the number of pivot points he uses, he could get away with just one or two. By coupling the suspension and tilting systems, the design is simplified. Fewer parts, less interference, less weight. Even damping could be incorporated using friction discs at select pivots instead of hydraulics. Human power vehicle performance is seriously degraded as weight increases. Less weight=less power required/better performance. It's easy to copy someone else's design/idea but designing and building your own working solution is much more satisfying.

    • @flannel2699
      @flannel2699 5 років тому

      Steven Mitchell - I thought you were suggesting using torsion bars as actual pivots (like a 50's Riley or E-Type) but if you mean torsion bars mounted coaxially within the pivots that would definitely be neat and compact. Apologies if I misunderstood. Many seasoned engineers have made similar mistakes regarding tilting vehicle linkage setups. Even the eminent Tony Foale got it completely wrong in his book on the subject.. ( so you would have been in pretty good company..!)

  • @WagonLoads
    @WagonLoads 3 роки тому +1

    I like your very detailed analysis, but I am still confused by what controls the tilt to happen.
    Is tilt controlled by the rider's balance or is tilt controlled by the steering mechanism.
    I would imagine if tilt was a summed result of (steering and speed) or (centripetal force) then tilt stability would be constant of (center of gravity).
    Could a pendulum pivoting on a disk (where the disk acts like the horn of a servo) and push rods from that disk control the tilt help? (The rider could be the weight of the pendulum)
    What about housing the wheels in a shroud like airplane landing gear?
    That way, you can have a pivot point in the center of the wheel..
    Maybe something as simple as a bike fork that is horizontal instead of vertical,
    sort of like a gimbal in a gyroscope. (Where tilt and steer are the 2nd and 3rd axises)
    I think there is a gimbal in the rotor of a helicopter blades.. That is kind of what I am imagining.

    • @WagonLoads
      @WagonLoads 3 роки тому +1

      I forgot to add..(I'm not sure if this was what you were talking about.) The turn radius of the wheels for inside and outside of the turning curve are different.
      The inside curve wheel turns to a sharper angle.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  3 роки тому

      Hi, the theory is that the tilting is completely passive. The trike balances in the same way as a bike, the mechanism described just allows the tilting to happen, only on three wheels not two.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  3 роки тому

      @@WagonLoads Yes - I did another video on the steering geometry - video 3 in my tilting trike series. Vid 4 touches on it too if memory serves.

    • @WagonLoads
      @WagonLoads 3 роки тому

      My thoughts were how to make it so that the center of gravity is controlled by the centripetal force of the turn, so that the bike auto-tilts to the right angle for the speed and turn radius you are doing. Thus making the bike self balancing.

  • @serkanatila3141
    @serkanatila3141 8 місяців тому +1

    Kral , çok güzel olmuş eline sağlık

  • @f18a
    @f18a 5 років тому +1

    Very interesting. Have you thought about running the tilt mechanism on the rear and using FWD? This would ease packaging and obviate the need for a differential.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      Definitely an option but I think tadpole configuration is easier to make with greater use of standard bike components.

  • @guillaumevincent716
    @guillaumevincent716 8 місяців тому +1

    VERY IMPRESSIVE

  • @creativecityis
    @creativecityis 5 років тому

    in my tilting trike design i decided that i wanted to control the lean with my arms, ok ok i havent built it yet, however in my design both wheels are individually suspended and i have a rod that allows me to drop each wheel individually. this video did point out to me how im going to run into heaps of wheel scrub. bugger, but his is prototype #8 there is always #9. thanks for this video as its dificult to find any info on how to build a tilting teck into a trike. i recon when this is solved it has the potential to compete with cars. who wouldnt want vehicles to be a third the size and heaps more power eficent probably dreaming, but hey, dreams are free :-)

  • @Thoracius
    @Thoracius 5 років тому

    I wonder whether keeping balance on a mechanism like this is as intuitive as on a bicycle or whether one has to re-learn. As I understand it, balancing on an eco-mobile, for example, is a bit counter-intuitive. Also, have you considered that at some point it doesn't make sense for the tires to lean any further, as they will loose traction, while it may make sense to still allow the rider to lean further in order to keep their center of gravity ahead of the bicycle to prevent tipping?

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      I'm thinking of building a simple prototype to test the usability of the basic design.

    • @Thoracius
      @Thoracius 5 років тому

      @@MetalMachineShop Nice. I've given this a lot of thought as well, so it was fun to accidentally stumble onto your video. There's a french quad bike with full suspension that looks really impressive that seems to use centrifugal force to do the leaning for you (by placing the pivot above the center of gravity), as opposed to the classic bicycle-style where you have to anticipate the centrifugal forces and get ahead of them. The dampers keep it upright and from swinging around too much. The mechanism takes up a ton of real estate though, so it's not aerodynamic at all (but plenty off-road capable). I've currently got ideas for a kneeling/tilting mechanism that's controllable separately from turning and doesn't require shifting one's body weight to control it, but likewise, I'll just have to test it to see if it's feasible.

  • @flannel2699
    @flannel2699 5 років тому

    This is uncannily like a project I shelved a decade or so ago. Even the sketches and model are pretty much identical. Great minds..!
    Have you considered a delta layout with a Calleja type twin trailing swing arm setup. Calleja used a diff on his motorised test bed but with a narrow enough track you could possibly do without - or even drive a single rear wheel ( unless it would cause some unwanted yaw effects..?)
    Anyway it was fun to watch you talk through the same work, the same way.. Thanks for sharing.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      Ha! I don’t claim any of my work is original - interesting to hear that other people have come to similar conclusions! I think the tadpole configuration has advantages in terms of mechanical simplicity but the deltas probably look better.

  • @greenarmy4705
    @greenarmy4705 4 роки тому

    That's good illustration bro!

  • @shadowbaby
    @shadowbaby 4 роки тому

    hi i dont know if this is a dead end but a old f1 car from cooper would use a leaf spring as the upper arms i would imagine a composite mono spring wouldn't create much drag out in the air and could save you space

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  4 роки тому

      I think a leaf spring would be a good solution provided it wasn’t too bendy.

  • @ecoplantagebohemien.
    @ecoplantagebohemien. 3 роки тому +1

    Eerst moet je jezelf afvragen, waar wil ik rijden met mijn velomobiel? in een drukke stad, en op smalle fietspaden ? of op buitenwegen in bos en natuur, en in de bergen? in het laatste geval, hebben al deze ontwerpen weinig zin, maar ik vond het een zeer informatieve video, dank je

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  3 роки тому

      (Thanks to google translate!) Good comment, this sort of machine would be best suited to cities with good cycle lanes, other flattish cycle lanes and quieter rural roads. For hilly areas or off road, I’d take a different sort of bike!

  • @martinskof6196
    @martinskof6196 4 роки тому +1

    Is there any possibility in your velomobile design to implement shock above upper arms? There would be no clearance issues then...

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  4 роки тому

      Hi there, yes, my latest design has a top-mounted shock. I think this is the most convenient position for it now that I’ve thought about it a bit more!

  • @hennayakakumarasiri
    @hennayakakumarasiri 7 місяців тому +1

    Thank you very much !

  • @thecontrarian9933
    @thecontrarian9933 5 років тому

    You should look at tilting mechanisms for motorcycle cars. I'm not sure if it would work with independent suspension but something like the Flxi Flyer might simplify things. I think once you start to look at how much turning the wheels starts to change and complicate load and geometry you might forget about some of your concerns.

  • @activedrive8310
    @activedrive8310 5 років тому

    Thanks! I thought about it, but did not think to make simple models!)

  • @albertpelletier9415
    @albertpelletier9415 5 років тому +11

    Interesting video with a lot of thought in it. However, I suspect the problem is even more complex than it appears in this video. I think the problem also needs to be considered 3 dimensionally, and not just 2 dimensionally as presented here. Notice in particular the camber angles of the wheels relative to each other while in a lean as would be experienced in a turn. Each wheel is in a slightly different turn radius and should require a different camber than the other wheel. The inside wheel in a turn should have less camber than the outside wheel.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому +2

      I think you are right. I'm working on a 3D CAD model at the moment which should help flush out some issues.

    • @jon-williammurphy9780
      @jon-williammurphy9780 4 роки тому

      Does camber directly relate to local turning radius? Or are you recommending a camber angle/ turning radius relationship for wear characteristics or handling?

  • @mehmetcanaz2152
    @mehmetcanaz2152 5 років тому

    good job bro,please keep create like these videos

  • @beaconofwierd1883
    @beaconofwierd1883 5 років тому

    Would angling the wheels so that the contact point of the wheel with the ground is in-line with the arms help?
    Sort of like how some wheel chairs have tilted wheels to achieve better stability.

  • @Retrofordguy
    @Retrofordguy 5 років тому

    Been thinking of a motorcycle along these lines and having same issues finding a decent suspension setup without drawbacks whilst ensuring suspension and tilting work in harmony

  • @NatalCSilva
    @NatalCSilva 3 роки тому +1

    Interessante, mas poderia deslocar todo mecanismo para fora do centro da roda, levando para frente. Depois colocar braços, tipo facão, para suportar a suspensão das rodas. Já vi algo parecido e parece funcionar.

  • @LeesChannel
    @LeesChannel 3 роки тому +2

    When it comes to driving 2 rear wheels I think driving the rear axel with one-way clutches on either wheel would be a more elegant solution than a differential. Basically, all of the power would go into whichever wheel is moving slowest, and the vehicle would be self-righting (it would want to go straight) and it would never spin out unless BOTH wheels had no traction. Basically it would function opposite of a differential. The Quattrovelo has a system like this.
    I know you aren't intending on making a delta configuration, but I thought I might mention it since it was discussed in the video.

  • @carlosarias127
    @carlosarias127 6 місяців тому +1

    Gracias por tu video

  • @JulianMakes
    @JulianMakes Рік тому +1

    Amazing, I’d love To make a trike and this is so interesting, what happens if you have the passenger body volume tilt more than the wheels? Eg at 45deg the wheels are at 30 deg. Is that rideable? Really cool channel and presentation, subbed thanks!

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  7 місяців тому

      I’m not sure what would happen but I tried to keep everything in line to keep it as close to a bike as possible.

  • @blayzeashurst3928
    @blayzeashurst3928 Рік тому

    Just wondering, at about 1:09 in the video you mention that deployable landing gear is a strategy that can be used to stabilzie a two wheeled vehicle at low speeds. You mention later in the video that this strategy is not really ideal. Can you elaborate further on why deployable landing gear is not as good a solution as adding a third wheel and a tilting mechanism? It seems that the deployable landing gear system has been used successfully on faired two wheeled vehicles, such as Burt Munroe's faired motorcycle.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  Рік тому

      I guess there are pros and cons to both approaches, depending on what you are trying to achieve. The landing gear system seems to me to be slightly more complex and less elegant and may need to accommodate uneven ground.

    • @blayzeashurst3928
      @blayzeashurst3928 Рік тому

      Do you know of any resources that discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both approaches?
      @@MetalMachineShop

  • @dickensrivers9862
    @dickensrivers9862 4 роки тому +1

    what are your thoughts on using driveshaft instead of chain? like the focus on efficient performance. solid work. good luck. if i sacrificed any efficiency it would be to (pun alert) lean toward larger wheels for smoother ride.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  4 роки тому +1

      It can be done. I’ve seen a hire bike with a drive shaft. You would need hub gearing rather than normal bike gears. On my recumbent velomobile design, you would need a couple of universal joints to route the shaft around the rider, plus extra supporting bearings. Shaft drive would be a bit less efficient than chain, but could be enclosed more easily. I also found on my velomobile design that smaller wheels were needed to give steering clearance and to keep the overall length within reasonable limits. I talk about this in one of my other videos. Enjoyed the pun lol!

  • @Saintsinner727
    @Saintsinner727 11 місяців тому +1

    I’m going to convert my trike into a quad using your idea I’ll be able to add a 7 hp motor to my trike and I’ll go ahead add those springs I mentioned and I’ll have a stable motorized quad. Thank you

  • @sbq7
    @sbq7 3 роки тому +1

    Hi. Love your project
    Just a suggestion use shock absorber on top instead of use in bottom..

  • @archdentadit8893
    @archdentadit8893 4 роки тому +1

    Hi ... Thanks for this video, i'd love, i'm the new followers.😊

  • @endo9902
    @endo9902 5 років тому

    The arms/Beans supporting the wheels could be flexible to absorb shock and removing the need for the rubber pads?

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому

      Yes, I was thinking that too. It would also avoid the need for the arms to be jointed in the middle so would be simpler. Need to dig out my beam-theory notes!🤓

    • @endo9902
      @endo9902 5 років тому

      @@MetalMachineShop check this one: ua-cam.com/video/UMCs72AZ5W8/v-deo.html

  • @mikebull6
    @mikebull6 5 років тому +2

    What a great video with so much detailed information, Just a thought, would you use any caster angle with these setups for a tadpole trike configuration.

    • @MetalMachineShop
      @MetalMachineShop  5 років тому +4

      Mike Bull hi, thanks for your comment. The video just shows the tilting geometry, the steering geometry will require a castor angle and king pin angle to prevent bump steer. I’ve been working on these aspects of the design and am hoping to upload another video one these aspects in due course