This is one of my favorite Andy/Matt videos thus far, I love that this deck has so much synergy, all the cards work together beautifully. The deck is focused on doing one thing very well while still having a little flexibility (such as being able to use Merrejk and Vader in a few different ways). And to top it all off this is one of the least expensive decks I've ever seen.
There are some fun variations on this deck that I have played. You can use different combos of non-unique TIEs if you are worried about destiny draws (TIE Scouts are great, and they don't need ships to move them). Generally you have enough Force generation to deploy whatever you want. I also used to run a variant that had Flagship Operations (with all the Executor sites) and TIE Interceptors. I have to say, though, that the simplicity of this deck: TIE/lns, TIE/ln squadrons, and lots of them, makes it the best. You feel like the Empire playing it, too, with seemingly limitless resources to throw at the enemy.
I’ve never been able to make flagship operations work. It has always felt too card intensive to get all five sites out. That’s a fun point on the thematic feel of the empire’s endless resources.
@@boardmatt No question Flagship Ops is finnicky, but if you have a couple copies of Imperial Command, you can pluck Admiral Piett pretty quickly, followed by Commander Gherant immediately thereafter. The Executor Docking Bay comes out with Mob Points, so you can get the five sites out by turn four or five, which is all you need. By then, you've got so much generation that you can drop FS Executor and own space forever. Once you have Flagship Ops, you can run DSAS, Emperor's Shield/Sword for massive destiny draws. Not nearly as tidy as the TIE/ln's (here) but still very fun.
I've played quite a few variations on the TIE deck over the last year, because I really love the TIE deck concept. Sienar Fleet Systems is such a great card, and Return To Base is excellent with being able to cycle squadrons - if you can get it on table and use it. I do want to thank you, Andy, for inspiring me to spend so much time exploring this! There's definitely potential with the deck type, but the way this deck is put together, it really struggles against a number of common light side space packages, including Super Home One plus Order To Engage (especially with Bacta Tank and KFC). And that's just one of the most popular light side space packages. Without Point Man, you have no way to cancel Order To Engage. That can be a really big kick in the cojones. Overwhelmed is great in concept, but it only works in [edit: deploy phase], and All Power To Weapons can only be played in a battle (though the power bonus does continue after), so it's basically impossible to use it against a stacked Home One, stacked X-Wings, or other fairly powerful space package. Lateral damage can help, but not if light side has immunity - which most of the time Super Home One will. Super Falcon can be very difficult to deal with as well. You have no way to add extra battle destiny, or limit light side's, and your TIEs are a measly forfeit 2 apiece, so a stacked Falcon with immunity can clear out everything you've got from a system, while taking little to no damage or loss to attrition. Lateral Damage plus Overwhelmed can be more effective here, as immunity from it is less common on Super Falcon. But there's no Lateral Damage in this build. Any decent player playing against a deck like this and trying to battle in space is going to grab both All Power To Weapons and Short Range Fighters, severely limiting recirculation opportunities, and making it very difficult to battle against a solid space deck more than once or twice. Another issue is that this deck just gives light side way too many force icons and systems to exploit. Dark side really benefits from being able to generate so much force without giving light side any, but this deck doesn't do it. It gives the opponent tons of generation, while having 4x systems that light side (as well as dark) can drain at for 2, plus another system (Wakeelmui) that you have to defend or suffer from deployment woes. Without any Ghhhk, you can't spread with this deck, without potentially suffering badly from a counterattack. And then, what happens if you're playing against TRM or another deck with Revo? T1 or T2 Revo on Wakeelmui (particularly once Kuat is on table), and you've basically lost the game. You have no Evader or other way to cancel it, and that's then +3 generation for light side and -3 generation for you. And if you try to occupy Wakeelmui to prevent SFS from being Altered, your TIEs are then deploy +2 unless light side also occupies the system. I also don't particularly like the Imperial Occupation start, because it takes up a few extra card slots, and gives your opponent an extra force generation at the start. Being able to satisfy Battle Plan is nice, and may win a game or two, but in practice I think the rapid generation (while giving light side none) from pulling docking bays (so starting Imperial Arrest Order instead of Leave Them To Me) is much more important. So in my experience, this deck can work well against certain matchups (spaceless Profit, for example), but it will really struggle against most of the popular light side space packages. Against a good player, it has little to no chance of winning such a matchup. It is so matchup dependent, and the decks that it will lose to are so common, that I think it's not really a great way to build a TIE deck - at least in the popular and high level online GEMP meta for retro formats. I can go into more detail on what I do like and why, if people are interested. Maybe in the forums instead, to save for posterity. - BenKenobi
This is great analysis. Thanks for putting it together. If you ever want to come on the channel and do a deck video, always looking for new and different voices in the community!
@@boardmatt Thanks! Yes, at some point I would love to do a video! I want to go through this year's retro league and tournament to refine things a bit, but after that I would love to do a video on retro space decks - focusing on weapons, since that's my specialty. I think my B-Wing deck is good enough for a video of its own, as well. But again, I'd like to wait for this year's leagues and tournaments to finish before giving away all my secrets! 😉
TIE squadrons replace, they aren't deployed. So, you shouldn't retrieve 3 when you plop down the squad. Though, the 2 special Emperor's TIE squads do actually deploy. And you can use Atmospheric Assault (cloud city rare) to DEPLOY a TIE Assault squad directly
As far as I understand, the TIE Assult Squdron's deploy cost is that it replaces three tie fighters. Do you have a ruling to point to that clarifies replacing doesn't count as a deploy?
Need to add Gravity Shadow. The deck that would give this one problem is HBO using RFCs, B-Wings armed w/weapons, and Vettes w/ Rendili and the appropriate retrievers. Boush, TK-422, , RFCs, Landing Claw, B-Wings and the Objective for two cancellations for a possible cancellation of eight drains.
Love this series; I dont really play competitively, more thematically/decks that pair well together. Would love to see E1 decks (light and dark) that pair well together that arent podracing or senate 😁 Maybe something around lightsaber combat?
my tie deck is very similar to this with just a few wrinkles, i did think there was no force retrieval for the squadrons since they replace and don't technically deploy. i usually have one or two star destroyers and a chirneau, definitely need to add ability, ability ability and return to base, but you need a admirals order to wash out the AO that makes power minus two to non-piloted ships. Also who cares about destiny draws if you have a power of 75 at a system
I managed to rebuild your decks in real life (took me two days) now im waiting toplay against my friend. I hope i don't loose my last swccg player by playing your Carbon Chamber Testing. Do you have a competetive ds trooper deck, i loved to play troopers P-DSII. I'm lookin forward to mind what you have learned also :)
Tbh, I wouldn’t run this deck in any virtual format as it is designed for retro. This would get stomped pretty soundly with or without a nerfed well guarded.
Not at all. They’re going to take up space in the deck and the retrieval engine runs on playing tie fighters and as many as possible. Generally speaking, ships needing pilots is not great from a gameplay standpoint because you have to find and draw both of them.
TIEs with pilots are great for other kinds of decks. It's great fun to play Baron Soontir Fel in his ship, Saber 1, with cannons and blast your opponent out of the sky. But in this deck that would be distracting you from your main goal.
This is one of my favorite Andy/Matt videos thus far, I love that this deck has so much synergy, all the cards work together beautifully. The deck is focused on doing one thing very well while still having a little flexibility (such as being able to use Merrejk and Vader in a few different ways).
And to top it all off this is one of the least expensive decks I've ever seen.
I agree. With that said, I think I’d lose my mind playing against it. Force retrieval can be the most frustrating part of swccg sometimes.
One of the best ccg of all time
This looks sweet.....
There are some fun variations on this deck that I have played. You can use different combos of non-unique TIEs if you are worried about destiny draws (TIE Scouts are great, and they don't need ships to move them). Generally you have enough Force generation to deploy whatever you want. I also used to run a variant that had Flagship Operations (with all the Executor sites) and TIE Interceptors. I have to say, though, that the simplicity of this deck: TIE/lns, TIE/ln squadrons, and lots of them, makes it the best. You feel like the Empire playing it, too, with seemingly limitless resources to throw at the enemy.
I’ve never been able to make flagship operations work. It has always felt too card intensive to get all five sites out.
That’s a fun point on the thematic feel of the empire’s endless resources.
@@boardmatt No question Flagship Ops is finnicky, but if you have a couple copies of Imperial Command, you can pluck Admiral Piett pretty quickly, followed by Commander Gherant immediately thereafter. The Executor Docking Bay comes out with Mob Points, so you can get the five sites out by turn four or five, which is all you need. By then, you've got so much generation that you can drop FS Executor and own space forever. Once you have Flagship Ops, you can run DSAS, Emperor's Shield/Sword for massive destiny draws. Not nearly as tidy as the TIE/ln's (here) but still very fun.
I haven’t played this game since the late 90’s, wow
Never too late to start back up :). I did two years ago and it’s been a great hobby. You can play for free on GEMP - gemp.starwarsccg.org/gemp-swccg/
Could throw in some black/obsidian/scythe squad ties for ability. Throw in a tallon roll or two for space defense.
I've played quite a few variations on the TIE deck over the last year, because I really love the TIE deck concept. Sienar Fleet Systems is such a great card, and Return To Base is excellent with being able to cycle squadrons - if you can get it on table and use it. I do want to thank you, Andy, for inspiring me to spend so much time exploring this!
There's definitely potential with the deck type, but the way this deck is put together, it really struggles against a number of common light side space packages, including Super Home One plus Order To Engage (especially with Bacta Tank and KFC). And that's just one of the most popular light side space packages.
Without Point Man, you have no way to cancel Order To Engage. That can be a really big kick in the cojones. Overwhelmed is great in concept, but it only works in [edit: deploy phase], and All Power To Weapons can only be played in a battle (though the power bonus does continue after), so it's basically impossible to use it against a stacked Home One, stacked X-Wings, or other fairly powerful space package. Lateral damage can help, but not if light side has immunity - which most of the time Super Home One will.
Super Falcon can be very difficult to deal with as well. You have no way to add extra battle destiny, or limit light side's, and your TIEs are a measly forfeit 2 apiece, so a stacked Falcon with immunity can clear out everything you've got from a system, while taking little to no damage or loss to attrition. Lateral Damage plus Overwhelmed can be more effective here, as immunity from it is less common on Super Falcon. But there's no Lateral Damage in this build.
Any decent player playing against a deck like this and trying to battle in space is going to grab both All Power To Weapons and Short Range Fighters, severely limiting recirculation opportunities, and making it very difficult to battle against a solid space deck more than once or twice.
Another issue is that this deck just gives light side way too many force icons and systems to exploit. Dark side really benefits from being able to generate so much force without giving light side any, but this deck doesn't do it. It gives the opponent tons of generation, while having 4x systems that light side (as well as dark) can drain at for 2, plus another system (Wakeelmui) that you have to defend or suffer from deployment woes. Without any Ghhhk, you can't spread with this deck, without potentially suffering badly from a counterattack.
And then, what happens if you're playing against TRM or another deck with Revo? T1 or T2 Revo on Wakeelmui (particularly once Kuat is on table), and you've basically lost the game. You have no Evader or other way to cancel it, and that's then +3 generation for light side and -3 generation for you. And if you try to occupy Wakeelmui to prevent SFS from being Altered, your TIEs are then deploy +2 unless light side also occupies the system.
I also don't particularly like the Imperial Occupation start, because it takes up a few extra card slots, and gives your opponent an extra force generation at the start. Being able to satisfy Battle Plan is nice, and may win a game or two, but in practice I think the rapid generation (while giving light side none) from pulling docking bays (so starting Imperial Arrest Order instead of Leave Them To Me) is much more important.
So in my experience, this deck can work well against certain matchups (spaceless Profit, for example), but it will really struggle against most of the popular light side space packages. Against a good player, it has little to no chance of winning such a matchup. It is so matchup dependent, and the decks that it will lose to are so common, that I think it's not really a great way to build a TIE deck - at least in the popular and high level online GEMP meta for retro formats.
I can go into more detail on what I do like and why, if people are interested. Maybe in the forums instead, to save for posterity.
- BenKenobi
This is great analysis. Thanks for putting it together. If you ever want to come on the channel and do a deck video, always looking for new and different voices in the community!
@@boardmatt Thanks! Yes, at some point I would love to do a video! I want to go through this year's retro league and tournament to refine things a bit, but after that I would love to do a video on retro space decks - focusing on weapons, since that's my specialty.
I think my B-Wing deck is good enough for a video of its own, as well. But again, I'd like to wait for this year's leagues and tournaments to finish before giving away all my secrets! 😉
TIE squadrons replace, they aren't deployed. So, you shouldn't retrieve 3 when you plop down the squad. Though, the 2 special Emperor's TIE squads do actually deploy. And you can use Atmospheric Assault (cloud city rare) to DEPLOY a TIE Assault squad directly
As far as I understand, the TIE Assult Squdron's deploy cost is that it replaces three tie fighters. Do you have a ruling to point to that clarifies replacing doesn't count as a deploy?
@@amisheskimoninja p 88 of the adv rulebook, "Replacement is not deployment"
You should record a temp game of these retro lists against each other.
Need to add Gravity Shadow. The deck that would give this one problem is HBO using RFCs, B-Wings armed w/weapons, and Vettes w/ Rendili and the appropriate retrievers. Boush, TK-422, , RFCs, Landing Claw, B-Wings and the Objective for two cancellations for a possible cancellation of eight drains.
Love this series; I dont really play competitively, more thematically/decks that pair well together. Would love to see E1 decks (light and dark) that pair well together that arent podracing or senate 😁 Maybe something around lightsaber combat?
We will definitely get there. We're aiming to do 2 deck videos a month and roughly going chronologically, so probably in the next few months.
my tie deck is very similar to this with just a few wrinkles, i did think there was no force retrieval for the squadrons since they replace and don't technically deploy. i usually have one or two star destroyers and a chirneau, definitely need to add ability, ability ability and return to base, but you need a admirals order to wash out the AO that makes power minus two to non-piloted ships. Also who cares about destiny draws if you have a power of 75 at a system
Was the link to the video, which is mentioned in this video, of this deck being played removed? I can't seem to find it in the description.
I think the video is gone. I’ll add it to my projects list to make a new one. This is a fun deck to try out.
@@boardmatt Thank you, it does look like it would be a really fun deck. Would like to see it in action :)
I managed to rebuild your decks in real life (took me two days) now im waiting toplay against my friend. I hope i don't loose my last swccg player by playing your Carbon Chamber Testing. Do you have a competetive ds trooper deck, i loved to play troopers P-DSII. I'm lookin forward to mind what you have learned also :)
Yes, a trooper deck would be awesome!
Good luck in the match! Mind what you have learned is definitely on the to do list. I’ll think about troopers.
What program are you using to play?
It’s called gemp! Totally free to play. Maybe I’ll do a how to use gemp video sometime but is pretty straightforward.
gemp.starwarsccg.org/gemp-swccg/
Virtual set 21 totally nerfed Well Guarded. What would you replace that card with.
Tbh, I wouldn’t run this deck in any virtual format as it is designed for retro. This would get stomped pretty soundly with or without a nerfed well guarded.
Are Named TIE pilots not that useful for a deck like this?
Not at all. They’re going to take up space in the deck and the retrieval engine runs on playing tie fighters and as many as possible. Generally speaking, ships needing pilots is not great from a gameplay standpoint because you have to find and draw both of them.
TIEs with pilots are great for other kinds of decks. It's great fun to play Baron Soontir Fel in his ship, Saber 1, with cannons and blast your opponent out of the sky. But in this deck that would be distracting you from your main goal.
2 months ago