Raised Without Gender
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2017
- With recent victories for the trans rights movement and more young people defining as something other than “male” or “female” than ever before, VICE host Amelia Abraham goes to Sweden - the world’s most forward thinking country when it comes to questioning gender - to find out what it’s like to grow up without the gender binary.
In Sweden, the gender neutral pronoun “hen” has been in the national dictionary since 2015 and is now commonly used by most Swedes, the Swedish government’s school plan has since 1998 forbidden enforcing gender stereotypes, and government funded gender neutral kindergartens with gender aware teachers has made it possible for families to raise their children without a set gender identity, something that often sparks controversy in the foreign press.
Amelia spends time with one of these gender non-conforming families, mapa (mom and dad) Del LaGrace Volcano who was born intersex (both male and female), the children Mika (5) and Nico (3) and their grandma Margareta. She visits Mika and Nico's gender aware kindergarten to find out what the teachers and the other kids make of Mika’s gender expression.She also meets the founder of Sweden’s gender-neutral kindergartens, Lotta Rajalin, to learn how they go about deleting gender norms from education, as well as psychiatrist Dr Eberhard who is against Sweden’s attitude to gender in kindergartens.
WATCH NEXT: Meet the Trans Chinese Community Fighting for Gender Equality - bit.ly/2vW6Fj1
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"why doesn't mika want to talk about gender?" because they are 5 years old and clearly tired of a gender obsessed household
You mean WORLD??!?!?!?!?! Most schools force children to label one-another gender-wise you get that right?! In the USA anyhow you have to have your kid at 3 years old knowing if a cartoon character has long hair and/or is wearing pink they are a girl, that if they have short hair and are playing with a truck it's definitely a boy. It's insipid and ignorant. But that's the world we live in- people don't understand the privacy of sex vs the arbitrary ritual of gender that is forced on people across the world. It's the worst in totalitarian countries but it's everywhere. The parents are working around that. They even say for the video they are just curious. I LOVED that part because it showed that the child doesn't really give a damn about gender (compared to most children brain-washed into shameful gender roles)- Mika was able to distinguish that it's frivolous and in the end was capable of saying "I'm MIka" aka Mika is Mika an INDIVIDUAL. Considering the fact that you have the same comment as at least 3 other people on here I'm guessing you have a hard time understanding what it means to be an individual in the truest sense. I really hope you do gain that though...one day. Sad life without it.
@@mikestarkly9226 "Shameful gender roles"... wow, you're really mixed up, aren't you? Maybe you should open your own eyes and observe how every other species on the planet accepts their "gender" and gets on with their "roles" in reproduction of their species? You brainwashed social engineering people are really a concern for the future of our particular species of primate. Forcing this stuff on children is toxic... let them figure it out themselves when nature calls. I used to play "doctor" with the little girl next door when we were five or six. We didn't know what we were doing... but we were both pretty interested in trying to figure it out! And we certainly were never ashamed. We were completely innocent... like all children, including these poor victims of Marxist propaganda. Our parents figured what was going on and gently discouraged the behaviour. No shaming, no hashtags, and I'll bet money there's many who'll read this and say "me too".
@@mikestarkly9226 you heard what you wanted to hear. The very first question the kids asked was are you a boy or a girl. Not because they are taught but because they are confused by the presentation Mika is making to them. If they knew what he was they wouldn't have to ask. Do you ask a dog or a cat what they are? No because it's obvious. Mapa has an issue he is projecting onto his kids. Come back in ten years and check on this family and I guarantee Mika isn't falling for the political statement his parents made with his life!
Yes, it’s HORRIBLE to make your poor children try and take in all this information that confuses me (an adult) at such a young age. How are they supposed to understand any of that? At 5 years old
@@mikestarkly9226 your an idiot. I am proud to have a gender role. Its not shameful. I am proud and happy and love to be a man I'm proud to love women I am proud and happy and love to be strong for a woman i love but the women i love would never shame me for failing to be strong for her at some point or crying or liking something contrary to a male gender roll. The thing is we dont have to fit into a gender roll but if we happen to its not necessarily shameful, it can be something to be proud of without being arrogant or a bigot or ignorant without having to push your thing on others. You calling a gender role shameful makes you a bigot actually.
I think avoiding gender stereotypes on toys and roles is good, but acting like gender does not exist seems dumb.
ninjasylph true
I watched a really good documentary called 'no more boys and girls' (IIRC) and it was fantastic. They tackled the toys, clothes and pet names in a UK school and it was fantastic. That is what we should aim for. E.g. you are a boy but that doesn't mean you have to be strong and you can't like dolls and pink things. Rather than ignoring the biological sex of a child.
@@BeckyLooLah Exactly. The whole thing should be about teaching kids that there are different sexes but not different roles or opportunities for these sexes. It shouldn't be about the possibility to change sex and pronouns everyday, like the family in this video does, you can tell that the parents' obsession with gender is really tiring for the kids
@@irinthius9518 You've hit the nail on the head there. A fantastic way of expressing it!
I agree. I have always encouraged my daughter to play with or wear whatever she wants regardless of it being labeled as a boy or girl item. I grew up playing with a mix of everything, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. When she started school it definitely had an impact on her. She would tell me she couldn't play with or wear certain things because the other kids in her class made fun of her if it didn't fit her gender. I have to admit that that made me pretty mad... But she will figure it out when she gets older. All that said, I really think raising your child as whatever, neither boy or girl it can really screw them up. I don't get it. I really don't. Parents making gender this HUGE deal when they are children is to much. They aren't going to understand, especially when they get all of that backlash. You're raising your child to be a target for bullies. It sucks.
When the kid ask "Do you always have to say that?" said it all.
Not exactly. When they said "I will have children living in my house. I don't care what they look like." that says a lot as well. Everyone argues with their parent, that's nothing new. Do you defined your relationship by one thing your child fought you around?
@@dreacdreacActually, these two ("Do you always have to say that?" and "I don't care what my children look like." are two completely different things. The first comes from the fact that the child is led to avoid speaking about gender. Notice the clear discrepancy here, they talk about how they avoid the discussion, but then they ask their kid to choose a pronoun. How the hell is the poor kid supposed to know what they want to be called when they don't even understand what it means? They don't use "boy" or "girl", but they use pronouns... eh...
The second comes from being taught to respect each other's differences. That part I find totally okay. But you can still respect each other's differences even when the concepts of "boy" and "girl" exist. If the point is to erase stereotypes, then I am of the opinion that this is going overboard. Because stereotypes do not equal gender. Gender is here to define who we are. "You were born with a penis, therefore you're a boy. It means that if you want to have a kid, you will need to find a girl and make some arrangements with her. It means you have these and these hormones and they will sometimes try to act up or give you unwanted cravings. This is how you can deal with it. If you don't like being a boy, that's ok, we can address that. We are lucky that we live in an age where it is possible."
The thing is, if you remove gender, you remove a core element that allows you to understand your sex and sexuality. You can later redefine it for yourself and I think it's important that you are taught the possibility is there, but you need that foundation you can build on. These kids are given no foundation. They are thrown into a world where everything is fluid, led to feel unsure of their own identity. I don't think that's good practice. Being a mother, I can see how my kid craves stability. A kid wants to know what things are, how they are called and how they work. They are totally able to build upon that, but they need that base.
@@MirwenAnareth I was replying to the OP who said something "says it all." I think you're agreeing with me here when I say that it does not say it all.
@@dreacdreac Ah, I see. I think you took that "said it all" too literally. It seems to me the OP simply wanted to say that this is going too far. With which I agree.
Yes, child is not comfortable with that, and most likely because he does not understand anything about the gender.
Interviewer: What are your favorite clothes?
Child: SPIDERMAN
Spider genderless person? No, Spiderman. There we go then. Spiderman it is.
Why is it that "Gender-neutral" always appears as anti male? Tell boys they are not masculine, let girls do whatever.
Yes, I've observed that pattern too, and more closely than I wish, as this is becoming a present day reality.
Because... feminism.
supervegeta101 girls are less afraid to be masculine than men. but also you're wrong, there's a lot of encouragement for women to not feel afraid of masculinity
Lemon Ste so guys are more afraid to be masculine than girls ? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU AND YOUR CRIPPLED mind ????
I think she meant it in a double standard way, like, girls aren't as afraid of being seen as masculine as boys are afraid of being seen as feminine. But she is still wrong. Kids will emulate whatever is going on around them until they get around 7 - 12, when they start seeing other people's families and how they do things and begin to question their own.
This family appears to be let the girl do whatever and influence the boy to be anything but straight masculine male. This is a pattern in most gender neutral ideas. Those coloring books just swapped the roles of males and females. It basically promotes matriarchy not equality.
"Why do you think Mika doesn't like to talk about gender"
Me: probably cause Mika is five!
Or maybe, Mapa gets a bit angry when Mika is deviating from the role "hen" should play... Surely, only behind the camera ;)
ZenPhilosopher123 that can go both way they could ether turn out okay or be f up for life
Probably coz he doesn't want his/her gender identity to be something important because he/she is looking at him/herself as a person
RIP headphone users at 3:55 🤣
Clearly Mika is cisgender boy (He was born as a boy and identifies as a boy). So, he's clearly annoyed when he gets called "hen" or "she" and asked every morning what gender he is.
I could not imagine how messed up I’d be if my parents made my entire childhood all about gender identity by trying to not have gender identity.
Some of his more recent insta posts show the sons dressing up in ‘boy’ clothes, nonetheless it would be interesting to see how he grows up
As a parent of 3 “queer” children I find this confusing. It appears that stereotypical female hairstyle and clothing are preferred by their adults.
My son has always dressed and has the mannerisms that are traditionally male. I think he is perfect the way he is.
I am an older parent and in general pretty liberal. When my children were young I purchased toys associated with 2 genders.
I bought a lot of “anatomicalised” dolls that were representative of many cultures.
what kind of mental gymnastics did you have to do to think that raising kids without gender is somehow more about gender than if they were raised with gender. LMFAOOO
@@penntopaper9305 they weren’t ‘raised with a gender’ they were born with one first
@@emmy.vosperWhat’s their username?
The parent seems loving and well intentioned. But I don't think they realize that they may be projecting their personal experience on their children. As a parent, It's easy to fall into the mindset that you can't give too much choice to a child. But the reality is that too much can sometimes be as damaging as not enough.
This.
Men and women should be different when you do away with any sort of
roles for children and boundaries you
cause damage to their basic identity
as boys and girls
Dear Vice, please go back to this family again in 10 years
This is not a family
@@universome511 yes it it
How about, "Dear Vice, remember when you went to North Korea?"
@@universome511 why?
@@simonextra9689 family is a mother and father taking care of there kids
Asking a child every day who they want to be must be confusing and frustrating for them.
I agree
THEY NEED TO BE SAVED ☹️☹️☹️
But forcing them to be someone they're not isn't..?
@@rott666n they are pushing the opposite gender without children having any signs of being transsexuals
All they said was what do you identify as? They never said are you a boy today? Or are you non-binary today?
During our childhood in a Catholic country in Southern Europe, over 50 years ago, my siblings and I played with the same toys. When my mother painted her nails we all asked her to paint ours, boys and girls, and she painted each of us one nail. Although the boys didn't wear dresses, we girls wore their clothes when they outgrew them. Today we are all straight middle-aged individuals.
I think it's good to instead of raising kids gender neutral, we should just allow all kids the same opportunities as each other. You make a great point, because how kids are raised doesn't entirely change who they grow up to be
It actually impressed me so much when at 7:54 Mika was asked "what kind of children are you gonna have?" and Mika answered "I don't care how they look like" with such confidence and just a pure face of "that literally doesn't matter at all why would you ask me that??"!
I found that to be an interesting question and answer, because my first thought wasn't what they would look like, my answer would have been " I want to have happy, healthy children"
@@irdairda514 yes probably Mika have gotten the question a lot “do you want a boy or a girl?” and just got so used to answering “I don’t care” that perhaps Mika always assumes this is the question which is asked, even in cases where it might not be!
@@sachanielsen9134 Who in their right mind would ask a kid (or adult) if they would want a girl or a boy as their child? This question is ill in itself.
@@indrebutku I got this question all the time as a child, but I’m not saying I think it’s the fright question to ask! I just meant that I was impressed by Mika’s answer!
It also told me that the child is processing the gender question as one of appearances, not of identity. (Ik she didn’t specifically ask this question about gender, but she’s visiting the family for days to discuss gender, so it would make sense, especially with the answer, that that’s how the question is interpreted.
I'd love to see an update to these kids after they enter teenagerhood and see how this has affected them
Yes, and again in 20 years after they’ve joined the actual world
@@aedt3kids are 10 and 12 now and very happy children
That, I think, you’d call socially accepted experiments which can potentially ruin children’s lives
@@hedvigpearce5091what's their insta
Was there not that one shrink why tried to force parents to raise up a bit baby as a girl after circumsicium accident. He was boasting a lot until finally facing the truth. It just did not work and that kid ended up killing himself in the end.
Kinda seems like parents are projecting their issues at their kids.
Yup. Its the intersex bloke thats causing the confusion here.
Tracey Schroyer Well said.
I thought the same thing. The children were not born intersex but are being confused into thinking they were. This has all gone waaayyyyyy too far and is in the ridiculous zone. I feel sad for the kids, they never had a chance at being themselves or “normal”. Brainwashing...yes
I also noticed that the two male children were made to dress in traditionally "girl" clothes, but the female child wasn't made to dress in "boy" clothes.
I feel sorry for the intersex parent but I don’t think projecting their issues onto children is the answer. I don’t have an issue with children gravitating towards male for female interests and eliminating barriers that this is only for boys or only for girls. But I have a HUGE issue teaching kids that they can choose their gender. Because this parent is intersex he can choose but for the rest of the population they are born as either a boy or girl. Even transgender people can’t truly change. They can’t give birth or produce sperm if they weren’t born that way. They can change their appearance with plastic surgery but they will never fully be the gender they choose.
The reason I see an issue with this style of brining up a child is because they’re more inclined to start to feel pressured into choosing a certain identity to make the parent happy. Whereas if you call them by the gender they’re born with, while still letting them choose what they want to wear, what they want to play with and allowing them to freely express themselves as more feminine or masculine regardless of their gender, later on in life they’ll be able to ultimately decide what they feel deep down they truly are. It’s all about how you as the parent treat certain topics. If you raise your child strictly based on their gender and sticking to the gender norms, and speak negatively about transgenders, homosexuals etc. that’s not okay either. I think a certain balance between both extremes of parenting is probably the best. I can understand what the psychologist was saying, that he feels choosing to raise a child on the opposite end of the spectrum than a traditional/conservative style can also cause different issues.
Personally I’d refer to my child as the gender they’re assigned at birth, but allow them to act and dress however they like and as they grow up, make it clear to them that I have no issue or see anything wrong with it if they one day they tell me they’re non binary/gay/trans/lesbian etc. I’d make it known to them that they would be loved and embraced no matter what they are but not take gender out of the equation at an early age altogether.
I agree. Raising a child without gender could be quite harmful. They'd probably be more likely to get gender dysphoria, difficulty understanding gender, and at that age would just be blatantly confusing. Not to diminish children's sense of self and maturity, but it's very hard to understand so much about gender (which can be very complicated) while being so young and while their brains are developing. Not to mention puberty would be a very confusing, stressful and a potentially traumatic experience if gender dysphoria was involved, all because they didn't get a sense of what gender even was.
Fully agree
Yes
This is very similar to how my husband and I raise our kids but with one glaring exception: we use pronouns and our children know their birth gender. My son knows he's a boy. But he's a boy only because his anatomy says so. He can be a boy and like pink (and he does). He can be a boy and have long hair (and he does). He can be a boy and have dolls (and he does). He also has trucks and cars and legos. He can like or do whatever the heck he wants. But he knows he is a boy. I guess to us your gender is just what anatomy you have and not what you like or look like. Instead of eliminating gender, we are teaching our kids that it exists, but it doesn't define you.
There are several contradictions and logical fallacies in your statement. It seems that your confusion leads you to erroneous conclusions. As a parent and adult it is your responsibility to guide and lead your child not for your child to lead you and do whatever the heck they want. That is justa a recipient for disaster. We need to give children structure and discipline. This is why the West is in the moral and ethical decay it finds itself in. The West is so permissive that it now has widespread legalised prostitution, pornography, bestiality, homosexuality, extreme and cruel abortion practices, the legalised killing of vulnerable people through euthanasia etc. The concept of gender fluid ideology was constructed back in the late 60s early 70s as a result of the work of Dr John Money and his abuse and mutilation of David Reimmer. In fact John Money is the person who coined the term "gender" so there is no more socially constructed concept then tender ideology and fluidity which the trans movement is promoting heavily.
Same. Our boy and girl both know what gender they are and know that inanimate objects and activities do not have a gender. My boy is misgendered every time we go out largely due to his long hair but we politely correct people (because our son has asked us to tell people he is a boy) and let them know he’s a boy.
This comment gave me a new perspective on these topic and I really liked it. This is what I want to do with my kids when I get older and decide it’s the time for having them. Thank you so much to you and your partner for inspiring me ❤
That seems like a great approach to have. You can't deny gender but it shouldn't constrain you.
I agree with you but to achieve this freedom for your children heavily relies on the state institutions like kindergarten and school to also adopt this view and act accordingly. In Sweden it seems to be possible but in other countries the group pressure will start getting to the children from kindergarten on. And children spend a lot of time in those institutions and with their peers. Don‘t underestimate societal pressures.
Mika literally said “why do you always ask that” he’s tired of hearing it cuz he’s a CHILD he wants to play not change his gender
Poor kiddo. Isn't this a form of child abuse? I wonder why none of the women who would go crazy about a child getting spanked aren't getting crazy over this.
Mika is tired about being asked a question not for being forced to change genders. Mika just wants to be Mika.
She's not trying to change his gender lmao. People who are close-minded get scared if they don't know what "gender" (aka sex) someone is- and that's creepy btw when you really think about it-when it comes to kids- unless you need to know as a doctor or similar. The world demands that we have a bi-nary gender system (trans people are part of it- just doesn't implement their genitalia)...It was a PERFECT moment and answer by Mika- that Mika IS Mika! Proves they are doing it right. Raising their kids as individuals not cogs made to produce more cogs. Not "Yes Cindy you're a girl and need to play with barbies and babies because you're meant to work up to being as beautiful as you can so hopefully a good man will stick it to you and you can have more beautiful babies and he can fix the car because girls are too stupid to do such things and are made to be human sex dolls and baby sitters!" XD Oh"little Jimmy you must not wear a skirt- we all know a skirt will make your balls fall off- and you need to be ready to go to war and be a fighter because that's what men are for- or at least to bring home the proverbial bacon. If you are a soothing individual that likes to wear make up you stop it- you don't deserve that superficial freedom because you were born with a dick!" Does that really sound better to you??????
Yes maybe he can hear that and back off a bit
Elliott Valentine most times in this video the child is called he. Including by his own grandmother. If their gender seems to be interchangeable in this video than the op isn’t wrong for referring to the child as ‘he’.
Yeah, even as a trans person, this seems like crossing the line. The parents seem well intentioned, but they’re going about it all wrong. What you’re doing is making the kid care even more about gender by constantly asking them about it. 98% of the time, the kid is probably gonna end up embarrassed about this.
Totally. I feel like they could even have a fear of "choosing the wrong thing" some days. Like for instance, "oh I'm not supposed to be conforming to anything specific or else that will make my parents mad, I better choose this instead..." even if it wouldn't truly make anyone mad, but you know how kids can get to thinking. Alot of times they just WANT to please those they love most. Alot of kids WANT to be shown the way and guided through, they don't want to left alone to decide for themselves for fear of choosing wrong - even if there is no "wrong" choice - they don't know that because they're children and they've not had enough experience in life to know that yet.
I feel that that's what's most forgotten in this sort of thing, the fact that children actually do need guidance and help with deciding things for themselves - even in places where we as a society feel that they shouldn't have to choose or conform to one thing or another... they sometimes still need that guidance and help in choosing. It's SO easy to make kids think that "if I don't do or say 1, everyone might be upset or I might be wrong if I choose 2!"
Whether or not a kid has been "punished" or "praised" before for choosing one thing or another, they definitely form their own biases based on how they've seen others react when they've made a choice for one thing or another before, and they usually choose based on that - not on their own actual wants or wills.
they don't normally ask them about it, the interviewer asked them about it, the interviewer acted obsessed because it's the whole point of the documentary. They talked about it especially for the camera crew.
yeah I feel like they are ramming gender down their throats, rather than making it a true non-issue.
1000% everyday confirmations?? Mica was embarrassed there's so much attention around gender that that a boy/girl would not get! just let him get on with it....
I agree. Let's be honest. Pants are comfy for both genders because it doesn't have those wardrobe malfunction problems like skirts or frocks. They don't mean someone is a boy or girl. Same with toys. Whatever appeals you play with that.
I'm a trans woman who was afraid to come out until I was 33, because my family and friends were ... not so great. I have a daughter with my wife. She is 8 month old and she will be talked to as girl. She was born female and I know that being cis is way more common than everything else. What she will learn from me is that she can play with every toy she likes, and wear every piece if clothing she wants to no matter if it is "for boys" or "for girls". And if she someday comes to my wife and me and says: "Mama, Mummy, I don't think I'm a girl/woman", I will support him/them in every way possible. But I will not raise her genderless. This is an extreme that we shouldn't support. It's just the opposite of "there are only two genders" and it is as stupid. Sure, gender can be a fluid thing, but we have a biological sex and it makes perfect sense to assign the fitting gender to that. Everything else is something a child can learn when its brain is more developed. And if some of you want to scream at me, because I as a trans woman shouldn't speak about biological sex, because it doesn't matter (yeah, that happened): I have to get my prostate checked in about twelve years. Says something about gender and sex that I as a woman still need that.
Agreed, except there are only 2 genders.
@@Anonymous-uw4sr Disagree, because even I, someone who thinks this whole gender debate is stupid and should just end, educated myself enough to know that gender isn't as clean cut as it seems.
@@Lumberjack_Linnie there´s only two genders for humans... it cant be changed..
i totally agree! this comment made me smile so much, i wish you and your family nothing but the best!
This!!
I am a woman, never played with dolls, I loved playing with boys, never liked makeup or girly conversations. Sometimes I wore colourful dresses and sometimes I wanted to put on tenis and jeans. All I see in this Idiology is stereotypes at work. I am so glad I could grow as a girl and never feel pressure to behave like one by my parents. This is going backwards not progress.
I am so glad someone else has said this. Mostly I see people advocating either completely conservative views, i.e. traditional male-female roles, or completely radical gender fluidity. Neither is healthy, as one opresses those who do not fit the categories, and the other reafirms stereotypes instead of destigmatizing behaviors, personality traits and personal preferences.
Exactly...this is backward thinking
@@magistraeva So you may know, I was raised by christian parents and I'm still in the faith. 🤔
Exactly i grew up with 6 brothers and 1 sister so i ended up wearing boy clothes and not dresses. my parents let me wear what i want but when i hit the age of thirteen i started dressing in more girly clothes.
hard agree. I am very left wing and I like to think open minded, but this is just regressive. biology is a fact that isn't going anywhere and girls and boys should be taught that whatever their personalities and interests are are have nothing to do with it. to me this just seems like heavy conservatism in a funhouse mirror.
This is like having a vegan pet, we all know who's making the decisions here
Parents who say "you're a girl/ you're a boy" because of how their kid dresses/acts....same way....and at almost every school where kids are brain-washed that if you have short hair and like the color blue or like trucks you must be a boy...it's ignorance and close-minded propaganda. No children Figure out" on their own that they are a boy or a girl- it's a societal made-up concept as far as gender is concerned. In reality we should only be teaching children that there are males and females (as in different genitalia- nothing else should matter for children. That's the only way you'd be able to say no one is "making the decisions" for them...lol
@@mikestarkly9226 Really? More social engineering rubbish again? Children often show interest in the opposite sex at an early age (around 5 or 6) which may manifest in innocent sexual experiments such as playing "house" or "doctor" and which usually involves voyeurism. Suggesting this clearly natural "gendered" behaviour is somehow forced on children by society is plain ignorant and completely disregards the reality of nature. Almost all species (including homo sapiens) have a natural imperative for survival and reproduction which requires two genders. No more... no less. This gender fluid theory is just another form of Neo-Marxism intended to divide people, undermine family values, and promote a victim/oppressor narative.
Sling and Stone people who force dogs and especially cats to be vegan are despicable and don’t understand how ecosystems and natural life cycles work...so sick of them pretending to be superior animal advocates
feeding your cat only vegetables is abuse because when they eat greens they vomit and cats are carnivores
@@mr.howard1 if u don't realize oppressors exist then u choose to have yer head in the sand....
Mika literally doesn’t understand any of the gender talk, which is clear when he said “just call me Mika”.
Also when the Vice lady asked him why he wouldn’t want to get his hair cut short he whispered “I don’t know why.” This is a horrifying case of manipulation at a young age, I agree with the playing with whatever toys they’d like aspect, but this is to an extreme degree.
Right! I think it's too much pressure and at the same time too much freedom when children are clearly looking to you for direction. I kind of feel like mapa is projecting their own dilemmas on to the children.
I know I could literally sense the embarrassed/irritated vibe whenever "Mapa" said this to poor Mika, like obviously he just wants to be who he is, which is a boy... and they are confusing the poor kid by saying, do you want to be called a boy, girl, or hen today?... Like wut....
Exactly, I’m part of the LGBT community myself and this doesn’t need to be a gender issue, I just see this as kids being kids and if your son wants to wear a dress that’s just kids being kids that doesn’t mean they are trans or gender non-conforming.
Not left vs right, nationalism vs globalism nikka
I love how all the kids play together, at my school the boys would never play with the girls and they only bullied them, and the teachers just treated it as something normal
And girls were told “it ok, they just have a crush on you!” So, that made it acceptable to be terrorized day in and day out
@@nena041602 exactly..
Kids dont really decide. They try to choose the things that the parents are happy with. Mika is trying to please Mapa, who is having an issue of gender identity because of his/her physical condition. But Mika seems like he feels like a boy but doesnt want to express it openly because wants to be like his Mapa. Kids copy our behaviours, they dont really choose. In the doc, the Mapa asked "I ask Mika if I should call she or hen". Maybe in another question, Mapa added "he" but I think Mapa is not really neutral. Mapa showed Mika a girl's dress and said this is good. He didnt let the kid go and choose. Mika is extremely uncomfortable about the gender issues because he is sooo confused. I think he is trying to figure out what people expect from him, which answer is true in his social environment. I feel so sorry for him and his brother.
They say if a child is abused, he doesnt know how to express it. And I think this identity crises which is hand made in these childrens's lives is a kind of abuse in my opinion. I just saw how much Mika is uncomfortable with all these identities and he is confused.
Amen
Yes ! The problem is that man/woman teaching little ones before they are grown and adult to make such a decision.
Ridiculousness! A d abuse 100 %
Exactly true!!!!!
I‘d not say it‘s clear Mika is confused. If I was being filmed and had at least 2 (interviewer + camera operator) strangers in my house and be asked questions I‘d be shy too.
If the parents really pushed a hard agenda the kids wouldn‘t have so many „male“ toys don‘t you think.
We have only seen a really small part of this family‘s life.
Mapa is gender obsessed and is going too far with Mika
i agree with what you're saying but i wouldn't go as far to say it's abuse. their parents mean well but the way they're going about it is weird. in an attempt to not assign their child a gender they've ended up doing it anyways, assigning their kid nonbinary in a similar way a parent assigns being a girl or boy to their child. i think the occasional confusion and sometimes frustration that this kid experiences is very similar to what trans kids go through. i don't think you need to ask a 5 year old what pronouns they wanna use, just use whatever and stick to that until they tell you, unprompted, that they dont like it. i could go on but i dont think anyone will actually read this comment lol
You should do a follow up on this family in 10years
See them in their antifa gear
I also would like to see a follow up
I too would love to see a follow up also. It would make for one hell of an episode.
I'm shure mika while hate his parents for doing this to him
@@jbjb2217 NO it is not.. Dont say that, dont let it happen! This is very sick!
Mika doesn't like to talk about pronouns because Mikas exhausted with the constant talk of gender identity
True, It seems too much ambiguity might confuse the growing and impressionable kids as well as being too strict.
Hahaha you caught that too?
They might now know what they are right now. For the longest time I hated people calling me female/she but I didn’t identify as transgender. I didn’t come out as nonbinary until I was a little older. I really hate things Categorised by gender
@@caco3966 So do you believe it is better to raise children referring to them as their sex but also letting them know its okay to not identify as that, or to refer to them by nonbinary pronouns and names from birth? Personally i believe the first option is best. Although there are many people who do not identify as their biological sex (if that is the correct term) majority of people do identify as their biological sex. I believe that when people raise children as nonbinary they forget to teach the child that its okay to identify as the sex you are assigned at birth. However I would love to hear the opinion of a nonbinary person. I'd also just to like to clarify that I'm not trying to pick a fight, I realize that when it comes to talking online intentions are often misread and I don't want that to happen😂
@@lindsay_carv You raise kids based on their sex/gender at birth. This cannot change. There are no third options, such as non-binary. Furthermore, intersex is a condition, not a sex/gender.
I personally think being raised without gender at all will just end up confusing them later down the line, which can be harmful.
Though, I do think being raised without gender norms that aren't beneficial (like dresses are for girls only, toy trucks are a boy toy, blue is for boys pink is for girls, etc.) Is just fine.
In fairness...as a nonbinary child (now adult) I found being raised in a heavily binary society that did not recognize gender beyond ridged ideas of boy and girl very confusing/uncomfortable. Raising people in more gender neutral or a better word might be "expansive" ways will not be devoid of hyper feminine and masculine norms, it simply gives people space to exist within one or the other, or something outside predetermined boxes that don't fit...if we think of it like a box of crayons. Only giving people the choice of a pink or blue crayon excludes those who pink and blue does not fit...allowing us to work with a box of crayons with all the colors allows kids to still choose pink or blue if that's what they like...but also leaves space for kids who may feel like something else (normative cisgender/hetero kids included). Insisting we stay within a binary is like saying there will be confusion if we don't just keep things to the pink and blue crayon choice, rather than a variety pack that allows for more diversity.
Sweden is a dying society. There are only a few million Swedes in Sweden. In a few generations there will be more Arabs and Pakistanis in Sweden than Swedes because Swedes stopped reproducing. This is partly result of their messing up with traditional norms. Once the Arabs and Pakistanis become the majority, they will do away with this nonsense; they are very traditional. It’s ironic isn’t it, extreme enlightenment that makes itself extinct. How don’t they see it?
Extinction of local populations happened in other places before: Greece, Bulgaria, parts of Italy, parts of France. It will happen in Sweden, too.
@@apollicino2824That is a lot of words for I am mentally ill.
This seems more about the adults than the children? Am I wrong? (I work with children)
The children are given more choice to be what they want to be without the constraints of gender norms and stereotypes. So yes you're wrong. Watch the video. They're simply treating everyone equally.
@@ryanduggan6738don't attack a polite person, that is not polite
They're showing aggression to anyone that doesn't agree with their view on the topic.
I feel like the parents are the ones obsessed with gender and it’s imposed on the children. Why not let them live their lives and if they decide to be a different gender so be it. Instead of asking them everyday what they want to be called
the more we blur the line between men and women gender the more peaceful the place becomes.
@Mi thats your opinion because you are close minded. just look at the africa the larger the gap between gender the more backward their thinking is.
@Mi I agree 100% with you :)
@@Shasha-gr9lb Wow! Thats quit a statement. Africa is a continent with many countrys of diverse culture,religion and social constructes..
@@genussmensch4683 still they have people dying from hunger.
I really want an update/ a future interview where the children are able express their thoughts clearer
@momento bruh true
Disgusting
Exactly
Wait what?
Mr. & Mrs Smith idk why the comment chain took a weird turn like that. i’m not saying this is bad parenting or that the kids are gonna turn out horrible, i just genuinely want to hear the kids better express their unique experiences and feelings about their novel upbringing personally
I'm glad for my 3rd world country problems. We have too much on our plate to start wondering if we want to be a male or female.
I really hope Del gets therapy for Del`s traumatic past. Del`s issues should not not be the children's issues. Del seems to have a lot of anger and bitterness that need to be addressed. I would hate to see it poison the children's world view. There are good people everywhere.
i’m trans and i have a bad feeling about this. it’s not for the parents to decide it’s for the kid to decide wether or not they want to act on those feelings.
Thank you
That's what they're doing though. They're allowing a space for the children to define onto themselves what gender and colours they want to associate with. What these parents are doing is great.
yea, i feel like they should just be raised with the gender they were born with unless they shown signs later on that they might have gender dysphoria and kids this age don’t seem old enough to actually know whether they might want to transition, and the parents are just confusing them.
@@lydiam147 I dont see any possible harm that could be caused here by raising your kid this way, might be a little sure but theres no harm. It just seems to me that people FEEL a certain way which is fine but its wrong to perject those feelings onto the parents and say that they're doing anything wrong.
@@Hannibal082 but i think it's dumb when a parent decides that their kid needs to transition just for having an interest in boy ish or girl ish things. like if a girl is into playing with superheros and trucks or likes to play football too, that doesn't mean she is a different gender so i don't think parents should push that idea on them and should just let them figure that out when they get older
Trans person here, just let them pick what they like. I feel like they’re forced to be “gender neutral”.
Jaya K For toys and clothes? They should be allowed to pick (clothes to some extent). Having different clothes or toys probably won’t “confuse them”. They’re just going to have stuff that they actually want to play with.
@@jayak8217 the problem is that in my opinion there shouldn't be a difference in raising a girl or a boy. You raise your child as a child. Why is it so necessary to distinguish on their sex?
@@jayak8217 I guess we don't then. I'm convinced that you should listen to their will and not to their sex.
@@jayak8217 of course you don't have to let them do dangerous stuff. But it's not like your killing them by letting them wear a tuttu
@@jayak8217 yes, it can. Please look into misgendering and suicide. The numbers will shock you.
I like how half of this interview is just the interviewer having fun with kids lol
Even the reporter said she was confused...
“Somebody’s gotta bring home the veggie bacon”
LMAO
Lol
As soon as he said that I knew exactly what type of person he was gonna be
Meme Machine lmfao
The veggie bacon xD
Very curious how thede kids will be in the future. Can we get an update video when they are in uni?
That would be trippy to see
Standing in front of the bathroom not sure what to use. Because they don’t even know their gender.
They are going to be fucked up
Dana Ellis No beause pink is not a girl color and blue is not boy colors they are just colors
@@missaliceashley1301 sitting there and telling your kids whatever gender they chose is okay if fucked and is borderline child abuse. Gender is something that you dont chose its something you are born with. I dont doubt they love them, but they are not being good parents by teaching them shit like that. The toy thing is whatever, but ignoring biolagy is crazy and dullisounal. There are only two genders, and you dont pick and chose what you want based on how you feel that day. It doesnt work that way. They are confusing their children. If you have a penis you are a boy, if you have a vagina you are a girl. There is no in between. People that are truly intersex is kind of diffrent. But even then they are born with either more male or female DNA. They don't flip a coin for it lmao. This shit is honestly awful. And this shit needs to stop.
nobody talks about how well these children, their grandma and classmates speak/understand english
Uhm. That is typical for Sweden. All of the Scandinavian nations have very wide ranging bilingualism. Most of their education system is in English, from what I can tell. Any Swedish person I met so far could speak at least CEFR B2, usually closer to C2.
Where I come from my English stands out as particularly good with a level of C1 - no Swedish person has ever even remarked on it, cause they are used to that proficiency being the norm.
Can we get an update sometime in the future? I'd love to see what happened to their lives and how they act in comparison to children raised and told they are a certain sex or gender.
I saw pics from 2023 of Mika on the mapa's Facebook, and they still have long hair and an androgynous look. So for anyone waiting for a "gotcha" moment where Mika decides to go all-in on being a boy.. It doesn't appear to be happening.
@@spicytender1832 I’m really more curious about the psychological affects
@@linkfiedproductions2246 I don't think it would psychologically affect him, like the founder of the gender neutral elementary said, they're not forcing them into being something. They're allowing the kids to be everything. It's more about opposition to social norms pertaining to gender than opposition to the inherent laws of biology.
@m-nk2ne I’m just wondering if being raised in such an environment would add confusion or relief to their life.
@@linkfiedproductions2246 Confusion definitely, they're conducting themselves in a way the general population of earth doesn't. As for "relief" there's nothing to be relieved about, they get to live their life freely without the pressure of adhering to gender norms. I think the more plausible question is will they be thankful for their upbringing or regret it.They are just children who don't understand the complexity of society.
Shows three dresses to her kid and asks "What would you like to wear today?"
And claims that it was their own choice to wear a dress....
he did at one point pull out some shorts with flames on them. but that was probably just because he was starting to see his own hypocrisy. seemed like he even made a face.
But what do „normal“ parents do? They show a boy three shorts and aks „What would you like to wear today?“ Would they have a choice to wear a dress? No. And also I think it is because Mika always wears dresses, so showing them shorts everyday and them saying no to it everyday also would be weird. But I do get your point. Forcing anything on children whether it be the norms or the abnorms is wrong.
@@kameramon2000 i would have thought, if there was truly a choice, for the video atleast, of any time, he would have included other (typically male) choices.
I'm fairly sure that's because they know Mika usually prefers dresses
say straight people who force their kids to wear something because it matches and it’s ‘pink for my girl’ when the child is uncomfortable in the dress but when a person against the traditional gender roles gives the child a choice according to what the child has been wearing recently and not forcing an outfit on them it’s a problem
Gender neutral kids are like vegan cats. We all know who's making all the lifestyle choices and it ain't the cat and it ain't the kid.
timevampire83 LMFAO
It's actually very sad. Let them grow up and become their own person. Don't force your beliefs onto them.
haha i see ur view but if u notice - they never force anything on them -- the kids choose what colours toys they like. their expression is entirely dependent on them. if it was forced then even i wouldnt agree
@@jusdorange4720 no kid chooses that
haha love the comment. People who have vegan cats please stop. Cats arent vegan!!
My daughter Julia began throwing tantrums when we put her into her sisters hand me downs, age 3. She cried when we were drawing each other and I drew the long wisps of hair she had and was calm when I cut the picture out without the wisps. She was 5, when we took her to buy Arborvitaes at a garden store. The man helping us referred to Julia as "he" and how much "he" reminded him of his grandson. We were used to people saying "he" to Julia. She didn't want to be corrected. When we checked out at the plant store the man was letting Julia help with everything. He asked her to fill out the purchase invoice, which first included writing her name. Her dad and I were so worried. We let him believe Julia was a boy. She was so unabashedly herself. No anxiey and having fun. She wrote down her name as "Jeff"! When I asked her why she did later, she said that she said she want to make him feel bad for thinking she was a boy. She's 23 now and
doesn't follow a gender. She's just Julia. She's fine with being a she/her. But doesn't feel attached to either gender.
I’m a woman and go by she/her, however, I still don’t get what the big deal about gender is, as long as you’re nice and you can be yourself, who cares? So, I understand where they’re coming from. When I don’t know what somebody goes by, I tend to say they/them, just to respect everyone
But they and them are plural words, "it" is the singular word for gender neutral.
FR though. Idk why English speaking people are making such a big deal over using gender neutral pronouns. As someone who grew up with a language that don't have gendered pronouns, calling everyone they/them felt natural to me.
Another person who failed to learn basic biology.... Yes, treat people by their personalities, but don't go all radical because people are so "progressive" nowadays. They/them was never even a thing, people just want to be unique. Trans people are trans because of gender dysmorphia.
I'm a trans man. I'm in a loving relationship with my girlfriend. If we do decide to have children one day ( via a sperm donor or whatever)... If my child is born biologically a male, he will be raised as a male. If my child is born as a female, she will be raised as a female. If my child genuinely FEELS non-binary, trans or whatever and really displays that behavior like I did (without influence from MYSELF) - I will let them be who they want and accept them for who they are, but until then they are not old enough to make life altering decisions, and my job as a loving parent is to guide them and make decisions for them until they're old enough to make their own. It's as simple as that.
It really sort of is. And it's easier on the children as well.
It doesn't mean that we need to push our children into old fashioned stereotypes.
But it also doesn't mean that I am losing my mind because my son gravitated towards cars rather than dolls or plushies at the age of 10 months and it was one of his first words and the thing he likes to look at most when we're outside. He's allowed to enjoy "boyish" things without me freaking out that he's reinforcing gender norms. (we will have to talk about the climate some day, though...)
Exactly... let them get to be acquainted with what is normal first, but without pressure.
It won't hurt them even if they do end up being something outside of that, if they are still allowed to explore something different without the repercussions that you (might) have experienced.
I found it interesting that the two boys were developing along what looks like two different paths even with both of their parents sharing the same philosophy.
One boy seemed very agressive and active and more "macho" if you will, and the other seemed more interested in clothing and activities we generally associate with girls. The difference between the parents was the "macho" boy was being raised by a (I think) hetero male/female couple and the "feminine" boy was being raised by two "feminine" parents.
Please excuse the awkwardness of the words I'm using, but I think you'll get my general point. Kids pretty much model themselves after their parents.
That being said, if I go by the childhoods of my gay friends - some of whom believe they were assigned the wrong gender, they were all raised by heterosexual parents.
And then there's the tendency of kids to rebel against whatever their parents tried to instill in them, when they get older and are trying to establish their own identity. So, I wonder how things will turn out for these kids.
BTW, you wrote, "my job as a loving parent is to guide them and make decisions for them until they're old enough to make their own. It's as simple as that." Well, isn't that what these parents are doing?
Sweden, of course, has a reputation for being more open minded about a lot of things (my mother's side of the family is from Sweden, and I was brought up to be very unself-conscious about nudity, or example) and has tried a lot of different social experiments, so what happens in Sweden may not be a good measure of what could happen elsewhere in the world.
@@katiakominski432 In discussions like these you need to be careful about the use of the word "normal" lest you get attacked for marginalizing others ;) Even though you clearly state that it is completely fine to explore many possibilities.
Although I'd back the understanding of a statistical "normality" in the sense of a normal distribution where the bulk of people will fall into a particular segment.
Good for you! 😊 Too bad not everyone is not on board with your train of thought.
I met one person who was raised like this, it didn't go well in the first years because she knew she was a girl, but was treated both like a girl and a boy, and that caused her some serious struggles during her youth. I'm worried about those kids
Thats interesting. Maybe this could inadvertently create a gender identity crisis?
@Me and usually identity crises don't occur with gender unless they have dysphoria. Most people go with their birth gender. This is just causing another problem
@@babykay2493 it's all part of there plan to divide and conquer
@@skech_one149 whoa there bud, cool it with the antisemitism
@@snoweh1 what was antisemitic about that statement. U dunno who "they" is that they were referring
When that baby said to call “hen” like her (MAPA) that just lets me know this child is modeling what she has seen and is choosing that because of MAPA
The Mapa has it wrong, Mika doesn't have a gender expression. It's Mapa's expression of his gender.
18:48 "I try not to push my beliefs on them" that's literally what this entire video is about
everyone with traditional gender values pushes their beliefs on their kids too
Don’t want to push your “beliefs” on your kids then don’t have kids!
Traditional gender values, as in we believe there is a male and a female ( you know, science and all that?). Pretty sure that's just going with biology, not pushing values.
Omg did he actually state that? I must not have heard that. 😂😂😂😂 that IS all the video is about.
Well that's what parenting is about let's be real. I think it's good they don't choose toys for the kids- they let them choose. Mapa is obviously more masculine but isn't saying "get out of that skirt boy" so I think that's what they were talking about......They are giving their kids the freedom to choose and be individuals rather than sheepish cogs. Superficial doesn't matter to that family they obviously have real unconditional love for their kiddos as every parent should.
Raising children "gender neutral" should not mean that they can't be a boy or girl...or that they have to pick one in order to do certain things... Raising gender neutral should just mean that you don't stigmatize clothing, colors, behavior, or anything as being strictly male or strictly female. If my son wants the pink bike, grand. If my daughter wants hot wheels for her birthday, fantastic. Toys know no gender. Kids should just be kids and like what they like without the worry of "acting/looking like a boy/girl" when they are one or the other.
I agree completely
Fr like they support the roles with this mindset. Why should they be less of a girl/boy only because the boy as ecample likes to sometimes wear dresses
I mean that's literally what the video is trying to prove. There is no attachment to dresses being girly or cars being manly within this family. We just perceive it as so because that's what society directs us to believe. In this family they don't define things as feminine or masculine, they just do.
@@justakid823 nope they asked the kids what pronoums they want, what gemder they are when they dressed "more feminim" or more "less feminim" which is still supporting the roles. Why should they ne less of a girl or a boy or have different pronouns (especially at such a young age) just because they like dresses or sometimes jeans.
Like why should a men in a dress ne less of a men if clothes dont have a "gender" or define your sex and gender identity
i am SO glad that, in my childhood, there was no such thing as individually chosen pronouns and that it was considered perfectly normal that kids behaved individually, regardless of their sex; that when you spoke of actors, every actress naturally felt adressed, too; that every child had the chance to learn to adapt to society and not go through hell in search for a fitting stereotype.
back in my childhood, everyone fit in somewhere, because the only two options were stuffed with tons of individuals who weren't alike at all - and that was exactly what made us bond and accept each person as an individual. people knew, that stereotypes didn't mean anything.
nowadays though, younglings don't know that anymore, so they die trying to find the right place to be in. many become mentally unstable adults because of that. if only they could experience how great it feels to not have your own unique "gender drawer" but be one with everyone, because everyone sits in the same boat, not expecting anything in particular from anyone at all.
it was heaven, compared to whatever people have created lately by focusing on our differences too much. you can't have a healthy society if no-one ever finds out who they are nor who they want to be, but everyone expects to be treated like the centre of the universe, anyway.
Why an intersex person with all that they've had to deal with would want to confuse their children like this is so they grow up the same is beyond me
Their house interior screams “I-K-E-A”.
Edit: I don’t really remember ever implying that it was a bad thing? I was just stating something
Its sweden
Swedes appreciate simplicity, durability and closeness to nature. What's wrong with IKEA?
Duh, we live in Sweden!!
@@TK3C nothing,I love IKEA
So what?
Im kind of concerned for the child that doesn't want to answer gender questions they seem really uncomfortable.
kittykatBflat maybe they just don’t want to think about their gender. Maybe that’s not a big concern, also they may be trying to figure that out for themselves still
Ty The rope maybe their confused or annoyed as to why the fuck they are constantly asked what their preferred gender for the day is.
seems to me like they are confused by the constant questioning from "mapa" and they don't want to give the "wrong" answer
To me it sounds like they're sick of being asked. You can tell it's something they get asked on a daily basis and they just don't care - they don't want anyone else to care, either. Most trans and gender non-conforming people /are/ uncomfortable when they have to constantly explain themselves and their existence.
eggfish it's seems to me that the (ma-pa) is wanting for those kids to grow up just as he/she did without a gender... It also seems that ma- pa is against male objects of clothing like trousers etc. It's seems wrong to me. A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl simple! Unless your slightly transgender like the ma-pa inwich you have a penis so it still states (male).. excluding that a second kids are well looked after and loved
please, PLEASE give us an update! I want a “where are they now?” on them!
If gender doesn´t matter, why are the children asked every morning whether they want to be a she, he or they ("hen" in Swedish)? It must be very confusing for the kids having to think about what gender they are. Mika was clearly uncomfortable with it.
I think going with the birth pronouns at first, letting the kids wear and play with whatever they want, and let them know that they are safe to change their genders is the best way to go about this. Not giving your kids pronouns seems like it would be very confusing for them.
Exactly, I feel like a lot of people don't realize that over 90% of people will stick with the gender they were assigned at birth. Stick with that until they tell you otherwise.
Sure don't add stupid stereotypes with it and let them just be a kid, but you don't need to do this whole thing of pretending that gender doesn't exist
Yeah it might be challenging at least say “they/them”
agreed though
Use ze/zir pronouns
Yes
"When you ask Mika about gender Mika doesn't seem to want to talk about it"
That's because Mika is a small child who's parent's are pushing him to be trans instead of letting him grow up naturally and decide for himself. He's a small child, he just wants to play. I wasn't thinking about sex and gender as a small child, I just wanted to play Nintendo and eat.
Brew City fr kids shouldn't be worrying so much about their gender status like this. When they get older who knows what kinda of problems they'll go through on a daily basis. There are kids in high school who identify differently than what their body is and it seems that they are so fixated on their identity that all they talk about is gender problems and their gender status. So many LBGT people seem to be so fixated on that every day it's like a big issue they deal with that straight people don't. Kids worrying this early in life by parents and schools that encourage openness in their gender like this are literally gunna b the most annoying LGBT activist yet. Way worse than the kinda people who are black and say everything is racist. Like that plant of the apes thing where the guy was screaming racism cause they r soo fixated on it and honestly it gets annoying, not to say that racism isn't a huge problem but some people already take it over the line just imagine what growing up as a little kid wit this kind of learning will turn them into. Sheeesh man
Brew City fr kids shouldn't be worrying so much about their gender status like this. When they get older who knows what kinda of problems they'll go through on a daily basis. There are kids in high school who identify differently than what their body is and it seems that they are so fixated on their identity that all they talk about is gender problems and their gender status. So many LBGT people seem to be so fixated on that every day it's like a big issue they deal with that straight people don't. Kids worrying this early in life by parents and schools that encourage openness in their gender like this are literally gunna b the most annoying LGBT activist yet. Way worse than the kinda people who are black and say everything is racist. Like that plant of the apes thing where the guy was screaming racism cause they r soo fixated on it and honestly it gets annoying, not to say that racism isn't a huge problem but some people already take it over the line just imagine what growing up as a little kid wit this kind of learning will turn them into. Sheeesh man
Brew City
Yep your right . The kid doesn't want to talk about it cause deep inside he knows this is all fuckin weird and not right.
StaticDreamsEntert He probably can't even count to a 100 yet but he's being forced to think about gender and people's differentiating opinions on it. Just let him have fun with his friends and be a kid. Don't raise him to be a victim.
I preferred playstation, but I think I understand what you're saying
I'm non binary and inter* myself and totally believe in raising kids letting them choose their own gender expression but I do feel like in this case they are kind of particularly raising them to be gender non-conforming and the child could be doing that to please the parents. I agree with Del when they say they are doing the same as all parents, every parent raises their kids like themselves. But I think as queers we can stray from the norm and NOT raise the kids to be like ourselves and really fully let them be free. So I think I would be doing the same except I would be totally neutral about whether my kid becomes cisgender, not trying to persuade them into wearing dresses unless they want it themselves, not constantly asking them about pronouns and forcing them to think about gender all the time. for me the point is to make gender "less important" than in a cis-normative society, not more.
i'm transfem... and everying in the tqia in lgbtqia... and I agree with you... accept I can't tell how to raise children because I don't want one... and don't even know how to start parenting with parenting 101. So idk if that's what you should/shouldn't do
I like how even the man who disagreed was respectful, meanwhile in the USA disagreeing respectfully doesn’t exist
They are confusing these kids waaay to much
We are all transgender transracial transdisabled transspecies , it is 2019
These parents have no difference with parents who forced children to marry at very young age. They force children to make bias decision about their gender when they both mentally and physically are not ready yet to make such big decision. These parents should be jailed!
And yu look good.. slide ya ig lil shorty ;)
@@profit6209 smooth
Yeah I think they are being forced to decided if they are non binary. A kid can still pick if they are Male or female or nonbinary but it's up to THEM. When you ask your child everyday what they want to be identified as, that is a problem. They should be correcting YOU if you call them one and they say "no I'm a _____"
I think the grandmother said it best: Does Mika actually like dresses or do they pick dresses because Del buys/ prefers them?
I had the same tihought. Children do what garners positive reactions from their caregivers. If they do something silly and their parent laughs the child will usually repeat the action because they want the same reaction. If Mapa praised and clapped at Mika for wearing a dress Mika would understantably want to wear a dress again.
Leila yea she did also we have the same name!!
I never liked wearing dresses! Ever until I got older and on the occasion felt like dressing up. If anything it's nice for girls to be able to be comfortable and "boys" chose to dress uncomfortable and put on nonsense makeup to conform to a female stereotype, this broad gender choices seems more like loss of identity which is regardless of your sex!!
@Alice Collins no they don't pick dresses,their degenerate "father" buys the fucking dress so Mika has no choice
@Alice Collins We don't know that.
I’m jealous of them. I feel so tied to being a girl I wish I could just let it go and have everyone else let it go too
Weirdo 🙄
Yeah, I agree.
mmph "girl" same
Who ties you? Are you being bullied for doing what you like or forced to do things you don't enjoy just because of your gender?
why is being a girl a bad thing? Just be yourself. It doesn't mean you're LGBTQ or anything. It's just you waking up and realizing that you are different from the norms society expects of you.
Ameilia: "Would you like to have hair cut that short?"
Mika: "No"
Amelia:"Why not?"
Mika: *whispers* " I dont know why"
This poor kid.. Mika's clearly confused bc of what the parents are constantly saying. Mika's only 5.. he doesn't need to be this conflicted and confused about gender to the point where he can't even reason why he doesn't want short hair bc he "doesn't have a gender" and doesn't know what to get so his parent's are pleased
My son is 4 and hates having his hair cut, it has nothing to do with gender identity 😂 and yes, he has shaggy hair as a result.
Mika is 5... kids don't always know how to articulate what they feel.
“Gender confusion is a small price to pay for social progress...”
When Mapa said this.. this confirmed all my assumptions. Mika is being forced to think about things that aren’t even a concern at his age.... wtf
yes exactly like i see this video and i’m like “kids don’t care about their gender at all” like kids wear girls or boys clothes or play with girls or boys toys and they don’t care cause they don’t know unless you tell them they don’t think about it and they don’t need to
Absolutely. I think that's why Mika always responds with a "I don't know" when they ask how does she/he feel about something
And why do you think that is? Well because people who don't want to think about gender, can't live in peace. The kids in the school immediately talked about how it's difficult to know Mikas gender and that it doesn't matter. The purpose of this education is not that, but not giving gender importance in the first place, not talking about it.
They are using their kids to perpetuate a narrative, disgusting
@TaxiCab your clothes dont make up identification. I wore shirts with monkeys and turtles.... it didnt make me male or female
The kid who said "playing with everyone is the most fun" made me wanna cry, what a sweetheart
They dont know how trash everyone is
as an identifying nonbinary man just imagine not being to be traumatized by the fact that boys don't wanna play with you becuase you're a girl just the fact that you're born a girl therefore you must only befriend other girls in school. why?!?! why is my innocent childish friendship somehow worthless to you or not good enough simply because I'm not in a boy's body? fucking stupid if you ask me. at least these kids can enjoy playing with everyone regardless of their sex.
SAME
@@lordhallibel3604
Well then perhaps everyone should stop acting like trash
when we obviously knew who was a boy and a girl in kindergarten, we played with everyone and had fun. I don't understand why you are so moved by this that you have to cry, because kids do this as kids in kindergartens without erasing their gender.
I'm not a girly kind of woman but I love what/who I was born to be. As a kid I played with everything from cars to dolls and I wasnt told what to play with. When it comes to my daughter I always tell her "you're beautiful, smart and strong". She's a girl who loves her dresses but will get messy and play with sticks. I don't see a problem with being a boy or girl, just wear and play with whatever you want. Just because you are one or the other doesn't mean you have to do gender typical things.
An antidote for their privilege. What the hell does that mean. On purposely making your child suffer because they happen to be born I to a privileged situation. What’s wrong with being privileged anyway, everyone wants to be well off, as long as you don’t treat others worse because of it there is no reason for it to be a bad thing.
These kids will grow up so confused with their identity
Actually they are already less confused than most kids because their parents aren't shaming them for liking dresses and dolls and trucks- people like Buffalo Bill are made when shamed for silly superficial stuff like that. Crazies.
Patricia Lou I don’t think that’s the point the op is referring to. I think there’s more of a concern that the kids will grow up and have no idea who they are.
@@mikestarkly9226 actually they are more confused. Your wrong.
they will have no identity. These parents are busy experimenting on their kids. They have absolutely no idea how this will play out in the long run. Humans pass information on from one generation to the next for a reason.
i know, just accept them if they want to be non-binary or trans or whatever lgbtq+ group they wanna be.
I wish you had interviewed teenagers that were raised without gender identity. I would like to know how they feel about that choice given to them by their parents. I have a 5y/o granddaughter, she loves to wear what she calls “twirley” skirts and dresses. She also wears jeans. She plays with trucks and dolls, climbs trees and jumps on the trampoline. We don’t ask her if she wants to be a boy or a girl. She is what she is. Had she been born a Hermaphrodite, we would have let the child find its own way, and choose whatever gender felt comfortable.
Yep. My son got to play with baby dolls and I didn't make a big fuss when I caught him playing with make-up. And somehow..he still knows he's a boy. Because we never made a big deal of it.
That’s too logical for the mental health problems facing society as a global issue.
That's literally what they are doing dude... they are allowing their kids to be exactly who they want to be.
I agree with you, except for the part where you said "hermaphrodite". As someone who has done research on intersex, the intersex community has deemed the word "hermaphrodite" as offensive and would prefer people use the word intersex instead. As someone who is a non-binary male, I was also allowed to do whatever, though my mom did only give me clothes that were associated with boys, so it didn't really give me a whole lot of room to express my gender. When I came out to her, she dismissed my identity. I didn't feel like a boy, or a girl. I felt like a mix. Was I a boy that liked stuff, or a girl that liked stuff? I felt like non-binary was the right term for me. It's the language that I use for myself and wish for others to refer to me. I feel comfortable with the non-binary label.
YEEESS! Twirly skirts! Lol, I liked those into my thirties. I never grew out of some things.
I think the problem is not with gender, but with gender norms. We can make everyone feel free to choose identifying features that suit them without overwhelming them in choosing a new gender.
Interestingly, Mika called Niko "he" , and that was quickly skimmed over by the narrator. Clearly Mika knows that Niko is a boy. Also, it was incredibly embarassing for Mika when Del kept asking her those questions. Kids want to please their parents but it doesn't mean they like what is being done to them,
Wait what's the timestamp?
"without gender"? Seems more like constant gender to me. Asking the kids what they are everyday, and then having a discussion about it is wrong. They'll let you what they are when they get there.
Bob Bitshen They said they usually don't bring it up, but had to for the case of the entire documentary. They had to kinda probe the kids to get their understanding of gender and where they fit into it.
Bob Bitshen Im confused just watching this
They’re are asking because it’s a documentary and they’re goal is to get as clear and in-depth an understanding as possible.
Give the kids two different toys like a doll and a action figure see what they choose
True. That one morning affirmation was rather excessive.
Why is being a 'genderless' boy always so extremly feminin?
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
hermanPla nothing wrong with femininity
Did I say that?
I said that every 'genderless'/non binary boy ALWAYS looks like a girl. This isn't about free choice. Its about a semi forced convertion of masculinity into a something new. And this new looks like feminity to me. So I see this as a attack on men and traditional masculinity. Something that is as old as feminism itself.
hermanPla I noticed that too. It seems like really these people just want a little girl.
Also in the video they were talking about boys committing suicide.
There is nothing wrong with feminine things but it's wrong if that's the only thing you're pushing on a boy in this "genderless" house.
These boys don't get to be boys and there for that will mess them up in the long run. This will not harm girls nearly as much as it will little boys.
because being a full gender boy means going out of your way to prove it to everyone and most of all yourself. these boys are simply not tryharding, and dresses feel more comfortable than man-clothes, no wonder scots, asians and romans wore them, pants are a "barbaric" invention of the germans
same germans who lost wwii for not allowing women to cross their gender boundary and work in factories or fight in the army like russians and americans did
They’re definitely loving parents, but the intersex one is projecting their issues onto their kids. They wish they had been raised more gender neutral, because that probably would’ve been right for them, with their specific circumstance. But these kids weren’t born intersex, they know the kids’ sex. Pretending it’s some mystery is disingenuous and just confusing the kids
it seems that the parents are trying to push their kids into an identity that agrees with their views rather than allowing them to just be kids :(
i see quite the opposite in this content
Please let kids be kids. Don't confuse them about gender when they are kids. My brother played with whatever he wanted, and it wasn't about being neutral, it was about him playing with whatever the f he wanted to, being a child. Just because a boy plays with dolls and girls play with trucks it does not mean that they might not identify with the gender that they were given, they might have other interests.
completely agree! often children like toys because of shape or color - i liked fire tracks as a kid, cause they were bright red. i honestly loved everything red - balls, books, clothes, shoes. they making too big a deal out of kids interests in specific toys
Right, the same people saying gender is a social construct & it doesn't matter are the ones making the biggest deal about labeling people! It's so absurd. I can't even believe how big this has gotten considering how ridiculous & laughable it all is. It is really effin dumb!
Correctamundo
Yes I agree. Toys are vastly different than intersex dynamics going on. It’s disturbing.
Yes!!!
21:56 the grandma seems to know something we don't know. She hinted that the kids want to be themselves but are pushed to act as their parents like
Yeah...
Exactly, grandma knows what's up. I really feel for the kids. The are deprived of just casual childhood.
I don't think that's true, I believe she's just expressing her own beliefs which are probably far more "traditional". And ultimately she said she was worried that the kids would be bullied, which is fair. I think she's just scared.
@@sabifirpo no she said if your mom gives you a pink toy, the kid will like it
"Of coure we're- *i'm* worried about that"
I can clearly see what is happening to Mika. Obviously this is the beginning of the rebellion phase. Mika does not like that the parents are always forcing him/her to always think about gender. It would not suprise me if he just starts rejecting everything his parents have told and starts embracing his masculine side just to get a kick out of his parents. This will obviously come in his teenage years
“Gender confusion is a small price to pay for social progress”. I really hope they don’t mean that their children being confused about their gender is a small price to pay for social progress! As a parent you are there to protect your children, not use them as a pawn.
I wonder the same thing as grandma. I didn’t see mapa bring any non dress options to Mika. I think he just wants to please mapa :/
Not sure if they meant it as confuse the children, but more confusion about what makes a boy or a girl according to societal norms; e.g. boys don't wear dresses and they must avoid pink anything if the object itself isn't considered super masculine in and of itself.
Mika is probably picking out those clothes. I wouldn't question it any more than the family who's daughter only wears skirts/dresses.
Lmao I’m trans but this is ridiculous! Let your child figure themselves out don’t push things onto them for the sake of publicity
Big Bolas Seriously? Give some actual criticism or feedback about what was said rather than just saying, “Shut up.” If you’re going to participate in the comments section of any video, you owe folks civilized conversation.
@@welcomeback1311 ohhhhh stop it you do to. You're just not man enough to enough to embrace your homosexuality. It's ok that comes in time. That's why you were watching this video for education you don't have to get all defensive about your sexuality. This is 2019 brother don't be afraid to come out of the closet.
Exactly my point! Raising someone gender neutral shouldn’t be forcing neutrality on them, just let them grow up whatever gender they want.
Dumb Bitch your a weird one
Dumb Bitch god damn democrat
I feel like sometimes people force their own insecurities on their children. Let children be children and don’t force gender roles on them. That simple. My son likes cars but he also loves the color pink, it’s not deep. Just stop bothering those poor kids.
EXACTLY
EXACTLY
true
I Agree
Well said. And it is very simple if you are grounded in reality.
THIS IS DISGUSTING!! These kids are soooo confused. I mean, I get it, I'm a female but acted like a boy. *THAT DOES NOT MAKE ME A BOY!!* Instead, I knew the DIFFERENCE between the sexes, but also knew we were equal - just in different ways!! I feel so sorry for these kids!! 😥
Mapa would never dictate what they would play with. Did our parents? I never liked dolls, nor the baby ones, neither the barbie stuff, and pink wasn't my favorite color. And I used to build with lego with my older brother and crawl around on the floor with cars and tractors and little plastic farm animals. Nobody ever even questioned if I might be in the wrong body or identifying with another gender. Who thinks about that as a child, unless it's made an issue by adults? Only the few kids who really have gender dysforia, which has always been a very small minority. It worries me how much we are confusing kids these days about something so basic and important for their development, depriving them of the natural course of discovery and imposing bizarre ideas upon them as if this is the truth we always overlooked during thousands of years of human existance. Of course are some kids with real gender dysforia, who need appropriate help, but the majority of the kids who are confused now, are confused because of social media and misinformation. I expect in a few decades we will regret what's going on now and wonder how we could ever be so ignorant and let this get so out of hand.
It's funny because they're trying to be all "open minded" when in reality they're probably some of the most closed close minded people on the planet
How?
Exactly.
@@aesthetewithoutacause3981 The parents are the ones putting a label when a boy wants to play with girls toys and vice versa. The parent's should let the kids be kids and not turn everything into a label.
Thank you. People swear parents like this can do no wrong when really they're doing the same thing as the parents they despise just reversed!
It's okay to be a male
Batoul Baher It's okay to be white
It's ok to be food
be what you wanna be, who cares
It's ok to eat poop
BB AA, 👍
"Sometimes he's a girl, other times he's a cat"
Have you people gone insane?
I think this whole no gender thing is crazy too but little kids saying they are a cat is pretty normal lol, every little kid I babysit is like that
My first born is more aware of his surroundings, of approval, or compliments… I notice when given the choice, he will choose to dress like us (casual t shirt and jeans). When I do my hair, or make up, he wants to be just like me and try it out. He’s not exploring his gender in any way, he just sees his main caregiver (per se) and wants to imitate me. Other times, he will get ready with dad and also attempt to copy his style /ask for cologne. I see Micas actions in more of an “older child” personality, then a gender fluid one if that makes sense. My 2nd born boy is just like Nico lol couldn’t care less if you tried, he is wild, has his own style and doesn’t give 2 craps what anyone thinks. When talking to friends with multiple children, the consensus is the same, the older child is more aware and tries to people please (regardless of attempts to break that down), and the 2nd doesn’t care. This needs to be studied more than eliminating gender roles 😅
I noticed "MaPA" only gives the kids girl options for clothes.
yeah i know it didn't seem like they could choose from boys and girls options just girls
they probably always pick „girls” clothes when they go shopping
@@emilyg1562 yeah i guess but it seems like they are pressing girls stuff. especially the younger one because he can't really decide for himself
I agree with @ninjasylph. There is not a fair representation of both genders being offered.
Agreed! This is child Abuse!
It will be great to catch up with this family in 15 years.
Maybe from a psychological experiment perspective, but it’s sad to see a child’s parents adding this much extra confusion to their already confusing lives.
Yes
When the child is suing them for this abuse.
i would say only two or three of them would be left lmao
Ikr lmao sweden is another fucking white dystopian planet
I feel like Kåre (Mika's friend who visited) and his parents probably have a healthier mindset in the long term. Raising him as a boy who gets to express himself however he wants actually lets him play and experiment with gender expression, as opposed to Mika, who gets stressed out when asked about gender. Everyone wants them to pick a gender, but no one will tell them what a gender is.
I’m a trans youth living in North Carolina in the USA. The state government doesn’t particularly like trans people and it is nearly impossible to get hormone therapy in my area and definitely not surgery. I’ve been thinking about moving as soon as I’m old enough and find a better place to live. I didn’t know there was a place like this and it’s so unusual for me to see such supportive people, which is a little sad. The people at my school mostly support me and try their best to get my pronouns right. But other people living near me and people I meet around the town I live in are nothing like my schoolmates. I’ve been catcalled before, looked at, people call me slurs. It’s honestly depressing to see stuff like that, but it’s amazing that Sweden is like this. I was thinking of moving to the UK whenever I got the chance, but this seems better. I’ve never once seen a child be allowed to be themself so openly, especially one so young. When I was a little kid, I wasn’t allowed to have hair shorter than my shoulders, wasn’t allowed to wear pants unless it was under a dress, and always had to wear traditionally feminine colors. Maybe that restrictive childhood is why I’m trans now. I would have loved to grow up in such a place as Sweden
im really sorry you are going through this. I will pray for you
Just deal with it.
I have a 2.5 yr old daughter. Her favorite things are makeup, dinosaurs, halloween, cars, barbies, fossils, watching football, wearing pricess dresses. Has nothing to do with her gender. She’s exploring the world with new eyes and is *surprise* fascinated by the things that BOTH mommy and daddy like. None of this is gendered. Its just a kid being a kid. This whole thing feels very regressive.
Precisely. Even as a person like me who holds traditional views, I wouldn't care about my son playing with whatever. What makes them a male isnt what toys they play with, its just who they are.
Exactly. Let the kids play with what they want, don't stifle them, and just let them be who they want to be. There's no law that says girls must play with dolls or boys must play with trucks.
agreed. Far left ideals like this seem to go full circle back to gender norms, saying they’re raising a child “without gender” because they don’t like gender norms. Gender and gender norms are two completely different things. Doesn’t matter whether you’re a girl or a boy, you can like cars, barbies, sports, fairies, etc
Exactly! We don't need to get rid of gender, we need to get rid of gender stereotypes. Let kids be kids. But don't make 'boy' and 'girl' bad words. Boy and girl are physical descriptions, not emotional decisions.
My sister was born female, but has never liked the stereotypical female clothes or toys. She is suspected to be trans because her birth mother was on a lot of drugs, which could have prevented the testosterone needed to make the baby a boy. Mentally she feels like a boy. She has struggled with hating her body because it looks female and she doesn't feel female. We have always said she is perfect as she is, inside and out. We don't tell her to call herself a boy because boy is a physical thing and physically she is female. Instead we tell her to wear what she wants, do activities she enjoys, and date who she chooses. She is, and will always be, she. But more importantly she is a person who is free to be herself, regardless of her gender.
Exactly
Why do we stress kids out with sexuality? Can we just let them be children? I let my kids play with whatever they want, wear whatever and not call it gender neutral.
The concept on gender neutral parenting is good at first, like not gendering their clothes toys or whatever else. But gender dysphoria isn't something everyone has, it's okay to be a boy or girl but it isn't okay for the parents to prevent the child from using the pronoun their assigned sex uses. Mika was obviously uncomfortable with the idea of gender at such a young age, little Mika should feel more comfortable. Though I do like the school system not enforcing stereotypes and being open to showing kids that other sexualities are a thing.
letting them play and dress with whatever they like IS gender-neutrality. The whole point is to not force them to abide by any gender-oriented things like, girls playing with Barbie, dress-up games and cooking and boys playing with car toys, action figures and what-not. I do understand though that it may seem a bit forced when the concept or word "gender neutral" itself is constantly brought up which is why i think its best if they're just given whatever toys they find cool and let their imaginations unravel by themselves without any interference, especially gender oriented ones.
In short, i do agree with you. Kids should be kids and not have to worry about all that stuff, but I just think that this is exactly what gender neutrality is all about. This can be achieved without explicitly having it spelled out to them and just letting them be.
@Dom’s Vertigo gender isn’t a feeling
@Sky Blue To Luna you're completely dumb
Not gendering them is letting them be kids.
the not gendering of objects i 100% agree with. Anyone should be able to like anything without prejudice
"Now *he* started to see *he's* a girl. The other day he's a boy, and sometimes he's a *cat...* it's good for him."
*Bro WTF* 🤦🏿♂️💀
yeah and i identify as a billionaire
she's emphasizing how much freedom they have in their identity and immediately follows it up with saying it's a part of their childhood. don't be dense. it's a kid being a kid.
Is not your buessninse
@@mollysjoberg7094 unfortunately by them going on television they allowed it to be others business.
@@mollysjoberg7094 Wow you completely butchered that word smh
The older child is literally showing signs all through this that he is uncomfortable with the constant gender discussions. You can raise kids to be open to all of this without pushing it onto them. You can let your child love all colors, play with all toys, and role play in all situations without gender being referenced. Time and the child will tell you what they want in terms of gender and sexuality. I have a son that played dress up. We didn't show any more attention to that than when he played with trucks. He grew up to be just fine as the gender he was born as. Parents need to stop making this so confusing. These parents are the ones confusing these kids.
clearly!
I absolutely agree
I agree. This type of upbringing could even make the kids turn into LGBTphobic adults because of how much they have been bothered with the gender topic when they didn't even ask for it
Exactly! Call them by what's in their birth certificate, let them play with what they want to play with, and don't insinuate that it makes them any less of a girl or boy. It's funny how by trying to avoid stereotypes and gender as a whole she actually made the stereotypes worse.
The child appears the most uncomfortable in front of mapa...and seems to want to please mapa. All child long for approval and acceptance from their parents. The dynamic mapa has created feeds into that need from the opposite angle.
How can you avoid knowing the sex of your child after birth when it affects health problems and legal documentation.
I gave my son cars and dolls. He chose cars and trucks he couldn't even walk very well.
Very soon he saw mamy was different to daddy and he identified as a boy (we were walking nacked at home), no confusion there.
They know, we don't have to give them special education. Just let them do their thing.
It's funny how gender neutral always translates to feminine
correction: "... always translates to feminized".
...an even better correction to myself yet: "... always translates to effeminized".
Fredrik Fredrik you say that, but it’s shocking how often people will ridicule women for liking things that are too pink, too frilly or too ‘girlie’ - all of which are equated with being silly and too feminine.
its funny how women wearing men's clothes are seen as "cute" and "normal" but if a boy wants to do girl things and parents encourage it, its called "child abuse". almost as if society is ashamed of femininity and those that are associated with femininity, mainly women.
gloriakmm
Fredrik Fredrik you say that, but it’s shocking how often people will ridicule women for liking things that are too pink, too frilly or too ‘girlie’ - all of which are equated with being silly and too feminine.
"too feminine" -- I've seen that usually it's really ugly unattractive women who say such a thing about other real women. Personally I've never seen or heard MEN complaining about it. No such thing as "too feminine" in my book.