Funny that in Spiderverse, Peter B. Parker was the older, jaded Spider-Man. His relationship with MJ failed, his Aunt May dies and he has no one important in his life when we meet him. After meeting Miles, he goes home, relindles his marriage, has a daughter, and guess what? EVERYONE loves that.
@@Erpdc-y6w It was satire. But yeah I don’t see the appeal to lolicon. Sounds like an excuse for fantasizing about children. Especially when people bring up “women can have petite bodies, ever heard of that?” It’s so stupid I swear. Just talk about women that are petite if that’s the case.
He should have some struggles in his life, but the point is that "being relatable" is not turning his life into a torture chamber and humilliating him every chance you get. Marvel thinking that more suffering is better don't understand their own character.
The funniest part of the whole Paul situation is watching Marvel fans find both background characters who look like him and other characters named Paul in older Spider-Man books or even other marvel books. He’s always been there. Watching. Planning. A fucking multiverse constant.
@@stone6242spiderman the animated series where peter in the black suit is chasing after shocker and Christopher Daniel Barnes drops the most aggressive line for a spiderman cartoon
I saw this on Reddit, but I agree: Paul is the narrative foil to Peter nobody wanted. Where Peter sacrificed of himself to make New York a better place, Paul endangered others for his own wants, as shown when he shoved Peter through the portal, trapping MJ in another dimension with him for "years". Where Peter's self-sufficient, Paul is highly dependent. Where Pete stands up for what he knows is right, Paul takes the high horse of not fighting his own battles. Where Peter risks his life to protect people and gets villainized for it, Paul helped commit the most heinous crimes against humanity and gets validated for it. Paul being "just a guy" isn't enough. Paul being "the villain the entire time" isn't enough. If this run doesn't take the time and effort to actively rebuke Paul and restore some semblance of Peter's dignity and status among his fellow heroes, then this run will have amounted to nothing but a masturbatory attempt to inflict another layer of misery porn on a character that never deserved this mistreatment.
I'm hoping they reveal either Paul put a mind control device in the bracelet he gave MJ for her powers and ends up getting dogged on physically and verbally for all his crap; Jackpot is a clone of MJ Paul made cuz the real one died in his world and he tried replacing her out of guilt; Or Mephisto kidnapped MJ and replaced her with a fake to try and drive her and Peter apart for good. Either way this could make way to redeem MJ and then Marvel can finally try growing a brain and make a story that undoes One More Day. With new stories having Peter finally having the life he was meant to have. Maybe have reality get warped to make it so that Mayday has been alive for about a decade now and can go on adventures as a young Spider-Girl being trained by her daddy, and Peter gets back his Other enhancments and and stable job that allows him to build better tech and be a greater version of Spider-Man
lol, reminds me of the first show I watched as a kid that made a play at the name called Recess which had the popular/rich girls the Ashleys and how this funny line from one of them saying how they'd have to then date boys with names like Paul or Joe which the very thought disgusted them all.
Paul is basically the living representation of the fact that Peter is never allowed to be happy. If his personal life is miserable, how can any other facet of his life be anything but?
Not only that he is also serving as this weird embodiment of this weird idea editorial is forcing of "Look MJ can be happy without Peter, her life doesn't need to revolve around him" and then fans go "Okay fine yes Peter and MJ can be happy without eachoth-" "NO, that is not what we said. We said MJ can be happy without Peter. Peter is constantly miserable and so in love with MJ still that he might try to move on and might even say he is moving on and it is getting easier. But he isn't and we will keep reinforcing this is the worst thing that could have ever happened to him, no matter how he tries to hide it" So not only do they not want MJ and Peter together. Which that happens in comics all the time, a once iconic couple breaks up and never gets back together and find happiness with other people, but they also want to reinforce Peter can never get over it to find happiness with one of his other Love Interests.
Hmm.. Peter getting married? No! No! Kids won't relate! Have him sell his unborn daughter's soul to Mephisto, go back in time, and experience an insane amount of agony of getting screwed over and over, and over again. Kids will definitely relate to that guy!
@@DTheAustralian at this point it would be more relatable for Peter to just... Abandon his life as Peter Parker and become Spiderman full time, like everything he suffers so much from his civilian life because of the Marvel editorial that physically getting beating up feels like the less painful thing to watch. I'm not saying this would be the best direction for the character, but if Marvel is hellbent on making Peter's love life miserable, then maybe he should just give up on it. Like if I was Spiderman, I would probably be too depressed about my life to go out fighting crime or I would straight up release all my pent-up aggression on my villains (Tombstone should be in a hospital bed, like Zeb Wells writes him to be such a loser that he struggles in every fight despite the fact he is holding back, if he got more serious I guarantee Tombstone wouldn't be able to land a hand on Spidey)
You know you fucked up as a writer when during a moment that is meant to show how far Pete has fallen, resorting to killing someone while under the influence of Norman's sins, your readers are cheering him on.
Paul is definitely a cut above the rest because he somehow found a way to Garner more hate from Spider-Man fans than an literal demon who erased decades of character growth and chemistry between Peter and MJ.
mephisto is the devil. it's expected, makes it a lot harder to hate the character with the same vitriol, since that's just what he does. Paul, however, is a non-character for most of the run, whose sole reason for existing as a character is to keep peter down. He's not the devil, he's just one really fucking annoying piece of dead weight dragging peter and the comic down
Amazingly put. While Mephisto's role serves as a plot device, his existence is very loosely justified, the act he does makes sense under the logic of the universe, in the case of Paul its like you just made your room shining clean and there's a fly fucking around, it doesn't make sense and its there when it shouldn't be
I find it so freaking funny that mephisto interacted with wayep before wayep appeared again in this run. The route to retcon this as mephisto trying to manipulate everyone and ruin the relationship again is so freaking easy they could fix it in 1 issue
@@desertplanet3253 Pretty much, at least the goddamn Devil made a trade with Parker: His aunt get sto live longer (cause she was dieing of a disease) but his marriage and relationship with MJ gets reseted. The trade is pretty rough but at least Peter kept most of the knowledge and could try to rebuild it again (as anoying as it was). Paul just come out of nowhere like a flying turd yeeted by the writers.
At least Mephisto give peter a choice on should He erased his child and marriage to save his aunt or let her die Paul doesn't give him any choice, He just show up and take everything that peter want
We live in a world where Ash Ketchum won a pokemon League and rode off into the sunset. Maybe someday we could see Peter Parker earn his happy ending too.
I think it's just that Paul is the straw that broke the camel's bsck after years of Marvel editorial just fucking shitting on the Spider-man fanbase with their insistence of Spider-man not being able to have a good and happy life.
I mean you act like fans didn't agree with that. in like 2020, right before the spider-man online discourse was 'why can't editorial just let spider-man be happy' the spider-man online discourse was 'spider-man stories only work when he's unhappy'. I mean, that was kinda the moral of Across the Spider-Verse, the thing that makes a spider, never giving up, and so the only way to truly test that and put spider-man in a compelling story is to put him through the wringer
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Absolutely true but the problem is Paul ends the mj/peter drama that has been the basis of Peter’s entire love life and in a way where our main character is basically cucked, it’s not even Peter being sad it’s an insult to his entire history with mj
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 bro what? The moral of Across the Spiderverse is literally the opposite, that Spiderpeople don't have to suffer those canon events to be Spider-Man. Miguel is literally framed as the villain for believing that to suffer is to be Spider-Man.
And now Sales are dropping with others comics like the new Ultimate Spider-Man outselling the main comics. 616 Spidey editorial essentially screwed a top comics series due to their obsession with a status quo.
@@crimsoneclipse0618I feel that Paul like you said open peoples eyes to how spider-man as a series really is now. Stagnant and full with a lot of oversight with the stories that won’t explore more with the characters. It’s like the second coming of OMD for modern reader
Why the fuck should I ever care about 616 spiderman ever again. If marvel doesn't want him to progress due to a fear of alienating their audience, then that means he will never progress even if MJ is gone. So if spiderman can't progress in life since he has to be relatable, he ends up not being relatable. So.... why should any of us care about this guy? He's stuck in time, and all of us are moving on.
You know why they insist on it? Because MJ Parker is an idea from the Jim Shooter Era and if you know anything about the likes of Joe Q and his ilk, they abhor everything about the man. It starts to add up when you consider how the company effectively flew off the rails into bankruptcy within a few years after he was ousted and the unacceptable garbage that makes it past editorial is something you get when you don’t have an editor in chief who does their job. Marvel has already alienated their audience around the late 2010’s to now where absolute atrocities too numerous to name offhand that not even mid-90’s Marvel at its most dire would be pleased to put out. They forever alienated a lot of people when they thought One More Day needed to be made and has kept alienating more by have a bunch of Joe Q’s loyalists refuse to budge on the fact the divorce is a bad idea because it meant admitting that Jim actually did something good. Hell, half of the BS in the industry tends to be largely from Silver Age fans basically running the asylum and the big two trying to avoid giving their most popular to the families of their creators including Captain America as per the law regarding intellectual property. I could be wrong but it does explain a lot of things.
And you know what's the worst part about it? That the editors *actually believe* they're doing the right thing. A fan sent a letter to Marvel criticising the current Spider-Man run, calling it a disservice to the character and to the creators. How did editor Nick Lowe respond to that? By claiming that Stan, Ditko, and Romita Sr. wouldn't want Peter's life to develop, even though they were there to make Peter grow. The gall of these atrocious people and their immature way of thinking.
@@JCShadow0202 I don’t think it will ever recover that wound will most likely continue to fester with the occasional rubbing of salt into the wound making it worse.
Fans: We love married spider-man! Marvel: Fans only like spiderman when he's single. Fans: No! We like him being married! Marvel: Erase the marriage from existence. Fans: NOOOOO! WE WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR THIS Marvel: Huh, why is Spider-man not selling as well as it used to. Maybe no one has heard he's single again?
To Paul: Let me say Im the biggest hater I hate the way you walk The way you talk I hate the way you dress I hate the way you sneak diss If i catch flight its gonna be direct
this ain't been about fans, not about writers, not about who the greatest it's always been about love and hate, now let me say I'm the biggest hater i hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, i hate the way that you dress i hate the way you date mj, if peter catch flight it's gon' be direct we hate the girl that you like 'cause she confuses herself with who she datin' and notice, i said "we," it's not just me, I'm what the fandom feelin' how many more fairytale stories 'bout your life 'til we had enough? how many more backstories 'til you finally feel that you're worthy enough? i like paul in the background, i don't like paul when he act tough you gon' make a [buddy :)] bring back bendis, lemme see if jackpot really crash somethin' yeah, parker's first one like his last one, it's a classic, you don't have one let the editors stomach that, then tell 'em where they lost their audience from jackpot, it's a fast one, baow-baow-baow, last one headshot for the year, you better fly around like goblin remember? ayy, parker, who the fuck he think he playin' with? murder's your middle name as soon as he messes up your life, bitch I'm allergic to the lame shit, only you like bein' famous MJ can't give you no swag neither, i don't give a fuck 'bout who you hang with surprised you wanted that children request, you know that you got some shit to address i even hate when you say the word "peter," but that's just me i guess your life just cringeworthy, it ain't even gotta be deep, i guess still love when you see success, everything with watson is blessed keep makin' him dance, being real bland, and you'll be seen a threat this is terrible and has awful flow but it's funny (i will do more if comments want)
The worst part of Ms. Marvel being the one to sacrifice herself is, that was _also_ an act of the editors meddling. The whole thing was orchestrated so that she could be resurrected as a mutant, because she's a mutant in the MCU instead of an inhuman, and there needs to be brand consistency between the comics and films.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxbut you know that's not why they did this, almost 10 years after the fact wasn't to "make things right", it was 100% because of the MCU bullshit
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxAnd thank god for that, because the Inhumans were never that popular she was allowed to be her own character insted of just another mutant that would end up as a brackground character, If you follow X-Men comics for long enough you will notice that every couple years they created a New generation of young mutants but usually only a few of them end up sticking around and stay relevant
And now.... she's both! As it was already established she's inhuman due to an ancestor marrying an inhuman. Thus they just had another ancestor marry a mutant. We've gotten a hint of what will probably come, kamala having her polymorph powers and her new mutant powers (her mcu powers) at the same time and combing them together for cool moves. That's gonna be fun.
Kamala has been messed up from the beginning because of executive meddling. The creators wanted her to be a mutant but Disney refused to make new mutants because of petty reasons to not pay Fox, so inhuman it is. The mutant decision in the MCU just caused even more problems and they went the absolute worst route to give her the MCU powers. Just have it that her mutant gene overrides the inhuman one or something while she's helping Spider-Man, not whatever happened in ASM 25.
I remember in the 90s, kids could never decide if Peter's greatest villain was Green Goblin, Doc Ock, or Venom. Turns out, the actual answer was the Marvel Editorial Staff.
"Kids can't relate to a Peter who's married and has kids that's not going to work." Oh man if only there was a younger Spider-Man who could be the vessel to tell stories the kids could relate to. They should make a character like that. Call him Mike or something.
Yeah wouldn't be whacky if there were two massively successful theatrical movies with this Spider-Man that kids saw and enjoyed? And we don't get free money since we'd rather promote Peter suffering for the 85th time?
Here's the funny thing about relatability: according to Enterprise Today and Zippier the average American comic reader is over 30. Seriously. Kids aren't really reading comics right now (probably because they're so expensive). What's relatable to a 30-year-old? Balancing their marriage, their careers, their families, and their personal needs. Aging. Stability. No wonder Ultimate Spider-Man is selling like hotcakes- it's a version of Peter that's going through the same struggles as his audience.
This whole video is a repeating sequence of "Okay this can work and here's how but also it's vague enough that thenwriters can play with it still" then followed by "Oh not only did they not do that they rereaffirmed that they are so dedicated to the status quo of perpetual peter pergatory that they'll shred the rest of the status quo in order to keep it."
It's really weird that people all seem to agree that these peripheral works: Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Verse, the cartoons, movies, and games, all seem to tell the real story of Peter Parker. The mainline comic ironically feel like the mutated, less-accurate version of that story, because in many ways it is.
That moment Peter's former enemy who may or may not have eaten brains is now off, being a universal hero, offered Avengers status multiple times, with a son, is allowed to progress, and even has an ending to his story that's a future version of himself. Not bad, Brock.
I can't not find it hilarious that the asshole who tormented Peter, the one whose villain origin was praying in a church and getting stuck to an alien, had one of the happiest characters right now and is literally symbiote jesus. I'm abbreviating it a bit but Eddie was genuinely very well written during this time and him not being around as much is a nice change to the status quo, MARVEL
@@Subpar1O1 I agree, is funny and honestly just sad that Eddie Brock of all people, who mind you was praying at that church before intending to eat some lead in a literal sense is having a better state of mind and life compared to Peter Parker. I hate that they don't let Peter be able to have some sort of happiness as Eddie is having. Ideally though Anne would also be alive and well to be with Eddie and Dylan as well, but I can work with what we have currently for the Brock's, hopefully this whole Venom War thing ends on a decent note for Eddie and Dylan, sucks that Peter and the symbiote aren't going to stay together after it. I figure it'd be a good change, hell I figure the symbiote would even try to motivate Peter to fix his life around and maybe get back with MJ... And that's also probably one of the reasons Marvel Editorial wouldn't bother keeping the symbiote around in Peter's life after this event finishes in whatever way it does...
@@dliatsos1 Agreed. It's pretty obvious that the reason Peter can't stay with the symbiote is because that would mean that there would always be someone in Peter's corner who had his back.
Miles up until about 6 years ago, wasn't much of a character. He was introduced in 2011, but really didn't have any interesting personality or characteristics going on. It was really due to the success of ITSV and Marvel's Spider-Man 2018 video game, that Miles started to really stand out as a character and popularity. Miles comics these past 2 years though have been great and engaging. Like they stand out and are miles (pun intended) ahead of Peter's.
On top of what the person above me explained about Miles not really existing during the _One More Day_ debacle, much less existing in the mainline universe, there's additional issue that the "keep Peter young" thing has always felt like a pretext anyway. This especially since it's not like actual "youths" would care about if he was married or not short of his married civilian life threatening to take over the entirety of his series, which it never did. The closest it ever got to that was ironically with _One More Day_ itself given what a false argument it was (and how stupid Mephisto's fixation & that storyline in general were/are).
Not to mention that we have MULTIPLE comic versions of Peter.... so having one version grow WOULD be relatable. Hell, I grew up as a kid reading about a married Peter Parker and I also read Spider-Girl comics with Peter as a DAD..... And I never stopped relating to him....
Even if you don't like Miles (which most comic fans have made obvious), removing the ONE chance they had to make a new protegé (Benjy, Mayday ect.) is insanely stupid.
I'm going to become a comic writer and climb the ladder at Marvel for years until I get to write on a Spider-Man series so I can write a story where it's revealed Paul has been killing people and the Punisher mag dumps him.
Good luck, another writer will probably just retcon his death, bring him back with super powers or do a multiversal reset and make a part of history since the beggining.
I already knew about that Ms. Marvel death controversy before I watched the video, but knowing now that it was connected to the whole Paul thing is just… awful, to put it simply.
And the thing is, as an X-Men reader, I was suddenly dropped Ms. Marvel as a super important character and Mutant hero of the future with mysterious powers she hasn't accessed yet unrelated to her Inhuman powers, and I was like... Huh?
Paul managed to piss marvel readers off so much that they got away with having Ms. Marvel, a Muslim girl, die in Pieta pose, a pose used to allude to the death of Jesus Christ, and not a single person commented on how disrespectful it was to both faiths. Marvel editorial got away with a double sacrilege, all because fans were too distracted hating on Paul.
Her death as a whole was disrespectful to the character. Like, she died without anyone she was actually close to, she's not that close with Peter, if her death is affecting a Spider-Man it's Miles who's one of her best friends. She didn't die in one story centered around here or where she was a key player surrounded by characters who knew her well and she cared for. She died in this random event, surrounded by mostly strangers, and ended up bleeding out in an alleyway. Not a fitting death if I've ever seen one.
@@ThyFloorestFloor apparently her death has smth to do with the company wanting to rewrite her backstory so that she's a mutant like they originally planned
I love how you separated each part of the video into the 5 Stages of Grief regarding Zeb Well's Spider-Man run. I am so thankful Jonathan Hickman came around and save Spiderman's legacy with his fantastic Ultimate Spiderman current run, which gives us the Peter Parker we want to see, an older Peter who is happily married to MJ and has two adorable kids and starts a whole new chapter starting out as Spiderman and works alongside Harry Osborn as Green Goblin. Thank you, Jonathan Hickman
Let's definitely enjoy it while we can, I can already sense things starting to crumble...I doubt it would ever get as bad as the main continuity though.
Credit to the Spider-Verse movies too. It started out with a Peter Parker alone and miserable and by the end of Into he was encouraged to reconcile with MJ. Then the next movie shows Pete is a happy father to an adorable baby girl and married to a supportive wife, it was so good to see.
Are we not gonna talk about how they sacrificed the only serialized version of Ms Marvel for this pointless war on the fanbase? She's dead now, and she had nothing to do with it! The grand finale of the whole Raven arc was him murdering a teenager who Peter barely knew. What the fuck, Marvel
They needed an excuse to reveal that she was a mutant by bringing her back via the Resurrection Protocols. One of the dumbest moves ever and completely undermine her creators original intent.
@@geraldobrien5956actually her creator meant for her to be a mutant but editorial flat out told her to change because Marvel at the time was trying to downplay the X-men. They flat out forbid new mutant characters.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9px Probably because of the whole movies thing that became pointless after Disney bought Fox and got the rights to X-men again. Even if it was a very petty thing to do in the first place.
Paul just gives off Subway Jared vibes. He's not into kids, but there's something insidious and unnatural about him when you look at the cracks in his goofy persona, like the main villain in The Stepfather.
I mean he die lie to and gaslight a taken woman into abandoning her love for her partner to start a relationship with him… (This is only a mild exaggeration since MJ didn’t even know Paul’s last name until years after she met him; never mind the genocide stuff)
@@DJET723he did set it up by pushing Peter through the portal and making it so he was stuck in that plane with MJ. Obviously there was no nefarious intent with that but it doesn't feel natural, it still always feels like Paul didn't really earn anything, his relationship feels like it's built on a lie
@@DJET723 He literally told her he was from Earth 616 when he wasn’t. He didn’t tell her about the time difference between dimensions despite knowing about it (“a long time ago, for me at least”). He told her to give up on ever seeing Peter again immediately after Peter was sent back and kept encouraging her to give up on him returning. Oh and there’s the fact that he didn’t tell her the truth about her situation, about his role in the ruined world, or his last name until YEARS after meeting her (AFTER she had started sleeping with him btw). Nothing about this is natural. MJ’s bf is a dude from another universe who accidentally genocided that universe and didn’t tell her until way after. MJ wouldn’t have ever fallen for Paul, and she sure as hell wouldn’t still be with him after discovering the truth. But Zeb gotta Zeb.
Paul is like the actual fictional representation of Spider-Man editorial. He's a representation of what Joe Quesada, Nick Lowe, and Tom Breevoort believe Spider-Man should be. He keeps Peter from being with Mary Jane, he is in part a reason as to why Peter isn't happy, which is what they always believe Peter should be. But most of all, he directly regresses Peter's character once again. At the end of the Nick Spencer run, Peter was finally in a good place, he and Mary Jane were about to move in together, and then Paul comes in and goes "sorry bruh, not on my watch". I can't for the life of me think of another Marvel or DC character who has an editorial team who is so disconnected with their fanbase on how a character should be written. It's actually crazy!
@@BenM6 That was just one editor: Dan DiDio, and he was infamous for his raging hateboner against Wally since he started working for DC in 2002. Also, Superman's issues were more a result of a writer: Brian-Michael Bendis. Editorial's problem there was letting him have free reign.
They really don't seem to understand how much they've twisted the concept of 'relatability' into a parody of itself. They seem to think that misery porn is relatable... which is kind of sus, honestly.
@@sumanoskae IKR? It's crazy how a I: a man in his mid-20's who has never had a partner relates more to a 35 year-old married man with two kids than what 616 Peter has become. Hell, I relate more to *Miles* at this point, and I'm white.
I think I felt the shockwave of the collective of Spider-man fans globally rejoicing at the reveal of his marrige to MJ and having kids with her in the new Ultimates universe.
They're making _another_ Ultimate universe? Ugh. The first one was already _more_ than enough garbage. [EDIT] I take it back; I just read the first issue of _Ultimate Spider-Man_ and it was _amazing_ (pun fully intended.)
@@AaronLitzyou seem a little late to the party bud. The ultimate universe has been going for like a year now and isnt anywhere near as bad as the original
@@He-who-wakes the problem is that is EXACTLY how the original ultimate universe was recieved. Let's see how the rest of this new ultimate universe plays out.
@@Chuckles3100 i'm begging that this makes an effect were someone at marvel uses USM success to say "you gotta change asm to be more like that other book that is critically acclaimed and makes twice the money" considering this is what supposedly happened with the original usm(although the monetary succes of usm in its beginning seems to be a myth )
“Oh, Peter! I thought I’d lost you!” “Hm..? MJ? Wh-what’s going on? Ah.. my head…” “Honey, you’ve been out for months, please, get some rest…” “Where am I..? What happened to Paul and Mephi-“ “Paul? Honey, who’s Paul?” “… Ah, he’s nobody. Weird dream I had.”
"he can't progress in life he literally wouldn't be relatable anymore" Can't think of anything more relatable than growing up getting a house getting married and having a couple of kids.... Unless you're a marvel writer who still haven't grown up
And even for the people who don't want that and/or can't relate to it like myself, there's still no real appeal in seeing a character we like *always* be miserable and unable to get the things they want despite constantly being a good person. That it's also at the whims of people who not only use the "unrelatable" excuse but then use thinly-veiled self-inserts as the instruments of Peter's constant misery just make the whole thing even more gross than it already is.
Or not even these things but jist not being misserable all the time and comically bad things hapenning always with you being unable to grow, thats just not relatable by any means
It's so ridiculous that the message we can take away is, "No matter how responsible you are, no matter how much good you do in the world, you will never be recognized for your achievements and anything positive that occurs in your life is doomed to crumble to ash in your hands."
The fact that this is just about this random dude named Paul, who’s kids disappeared is crazy. I would like to put emphasis on the fact his name is Paul
Paul is essentially a face that people can point at as a representation of what's bad about modern spider-man. He as a character is just designed to keep Peter unhappy and never grow or change. He may just be some random guy, but his mere existence is frustrating
Paul trying to morally grand stand SPIDER-MAN is something that my eyes SHOULD NOT SEE Edit:I DID NOT EXPECT THIS COMMENT TO GET MORE THAN 3 LIKES THANKS
Despite how dire the situation of the 616 relationship of Pete and mj is at the moment , the community feedback on books like ultimate Spiderman 2023 really gives me hope that one day the dark shadow of editorial influence and writers wanting to keep Pete in a regressive cycle will end (cope)
Apart of it is crazy, because with how many young people still read comics they could’ve used Peter and MJ to show kids what a good healthy couple is. Show Peter being understanding, MJ being supportive, etc. but they threw the opportunity away
Also how classic. Peter is a toxic Guy for being(rightfully) pissed off at his Woman being taken from him. And MJ is Right for…Essentially being assasinated into your typical stockholm syndrome for a guy that kidnapped her and Took her from her life where…yeah it was hard but ultimately happy into her just causing misery to everyone around her
That's the point, I think. They don't want a good healthy couple. They want drama and suspense, which is something that a trusting and solid relationship will kill. I recall there is one old comic that has some actor try to seduce MJ, but she remembers that she is happy with Peter and did not fall for that. No drama and no suspense. Just a good solid relationship. And to those idiots in management at Mavel, boring.
*If Paul has a million enemies, I am one of them.* *If Paul has only one enemy, I am that one.* *If Paul has no enemies, it means I am no longer alive.* *If I do not hate Paul, that means he is finally dead.*
Also Paul is just the actual personification of the forced or random break ups MJ and Peter have gone through. Every other time it was just calling out the writers but now we have a name and face to put to it in the comic itself. Also I hate how much they keep pushing Jackpot for MJ 😭
I think they should give Paul his own comic series, where every time it looks like things will almost go horribly for him but he always comes out better then before. Also have Parker getting beat up in the background of some panels and don't address it.
I think it’s more likely he’ll appear in the next take on marvel zombies as either a red shirt or a background kill. Or we’ll see Marvel universe vs spiderman and its Paul who created survivor 118.
@@changvasejarik62He’s gonna be the leader of the group of survivors, Spider Man is gonna keep being against his leadership and being “that guy” in the zombie apocalypse, and then he’s gonna die while Paul saves the day
@@cadettrev762 doubtful, if there’s one truly great thing about the MZ writers it’s that they do occasionally throw us a bone, by gruesomely killing characters people didn’t like. Or something of equal greatness like cyborg warmachine, stark using science and alcoholism to kill zombies, ash Williams working with Doom, or the super team of Kansas where one is a human sunflower and the other is basically sandman but made of several healthy and delicious grains.
if they wanted a Spider-Man for the new generation, they already have one, Miles. There was no need to piss on Peter's life story and then drop a nuclear bomb of feces, Marvel.
sadly, Miles is nowhere near as popular as Peter, even now that Miles has his own movies and a game, Peter's movies and games still sell far, Far more.
New generation here most of us don't know about Miles and some like me don't like Him well Comic version this nigga keep getting power up for no reason and Pete like normal life is a Bitch for Him
@@GuyParson so here's what they are going to do: for the love of god, give Peter finally a good life and an ending, and move on to a Peter from another universe, essentially do a reboot but without rebooting anything at all, you will only jump to another universe, the Peter 1 saga has achieved the end, now we see the life of Peter 2. It's as simple as that, no more suffering and another Peter to a new generation of kids and teens to grow and evolve with him, not evolve past him like is happening now.
Absolutely insane to me that Marvel has a legacy character in Miles Morales that is almost as popular, if not MORE popular with young audiences than Peter Parker, yet Marvel insists that it’s Peter that they need to keep young and relatable for younger audiences? It’s about time that Marvel just admits that it’s time for Peter to just retire with MJ and pass the mantle over to Miles for good.
Allow me to quote Mephisto, while explaining his terms to MJ for him to save aunt May: "Let's say this...Enjoy the world as it is for as long as you can. For you will only have it for one more day. *You will not consciously remember this bargain, or this moment, or the life you lived to this point. But there will be a very small part of your soul that will remember, that will know what you lost. And my joy will be in listening to that part of your soul screaming throughout eternity.* You have until midnight tomorrow to say yes." That "part of your soul" are the readers. People at Marvel are messing with our minds because that's what they like to do. If they wanted to give Peter some joy they'd have given it to him by now, after so many years. There's can be no other explanation.
Yep, and part of both MJ and Peter's souls would no doubt be screaming as well for all of this happening. I really wish they didn't have to do that. But sadly, we have no choice but to endure this travesty. Maybe one day the two of them will say enough of this and get back together. I'll keep enduring it though. No matter how long it takes. Maybe I'll be dead of old age before they are back together, but I suppose my spirit would not simply rest until they are. I'd like to think it at least, but I wouldn't really claim to know otherwise really.
Mephisto finding infinite soul weed glitch for him to smoke forever with all the reader's souls in agony He really pulled one up over Deadpool with this one , can't get more Meta than this Not to mention people hate on One More Day storyline but not him cause he's the Devil so no smoke with the readers and Marvel editors won't let that story change like a cannon event at any cost Mephisto is the only one winning(other than comic sales) and by a landslide
damn paul i gotta be honest with you i battled with myself - literally and my hero friends when super hero act was passed i was almost killed by ironman himself because i disagreed with him but against all odds i pulled through... but in your situation.... damn man there's no way to sugarcoat it if i was in your place i wouldn't be capable of going on i don't know how you do it man to be in your situation i would swing to the top of empire state and web my arms to my body and just jump there's literally no hope for you man >good ending
Its so telling that editorial's main reason for keeping peter and Mj apart is marketability not because they genuinely think it makes for a good story. Personally I think people who think in those terms when it comes to art should be kept as far away from it as possible
That's the worst part, it's the opposite. Spider-Man editorial have been defending their position on breaking up Peter & MJ for almost *20 years* now despite interest in the books dropping since then and having not recovered.
Part 4 really resonated with me tbh. My partner of 6 years and I broke up a couple of months ago after being together for 6 years. These have been some of the most difficult months of my life. I lost all my "friends" and also realized they were more so her friends than mine, but that's besides the point. Recently, I started going to therapy and realized that instead of feeling sorry for myself and drowning myself in nostalgia and what could've been, I HAVE to move on. I still care for her a lot even though we don't talk anymore, but I've been focusing on myself more. I scored a new job, and I started doing new stuff and pursuing new hobbies and whatnot. Awesome video btw! Not really much of a Spidy fan, but I've been keeping up what the whole "Paul drama," and this was really good.
Ultimates giving a Spidey that literally has "Your past was stolen, do you want it back" come up I 100% can see appealing to those against Paulinization.
@BestgirlJordanfish Who could foresee the catastrophe back then.... I doubt that the editorial even has the fractions of ideas how much the readers will be their greatest and steadfast antagonist.
Same i was like "alright, let's see what happens" to "someone please god kill me into another continuity". Like spiderman reign has that very famous awful MJ subplot but this one just went on for sooooo much longer over so much more ink that it's worse imo. i began to feel genuine dread for Paul every issue because I knew he'd be there, he didn't need to shock me or stun me with wild plot developments. He just needed to wait. He was inevitable, a sweater-clad force of cuckoldry and entropy. Jokes aside though, geniunley, really not a fan. So glad that's over and behind us honestly
Glad to see you back in full, here to give me another rollercoaster of emotions surrounding characters I don't really know in comic books I've never read. I have no idea why this is so entertaining and enjoyable for me despite that, but I guess you create videos that are just so good anyone can watch and appreciate them. Usually I play videos this long in the background, but the way you explain everything is so captivating, so I don't want to lose track. Top tier video and the best part was when you said there'd be more.
30:25 Thanks, I've been saying for years that MJ is written just like Gwen Stacy in the Zeb Wells comics but no one would take me seriously. Thank you.
Seriously you’re right! I’ve had to correct casuals for years about how Black Cat and Gwen were NOT good or stable people and that Mary Jane was pretty much the only girl who treated Peter decently and now Zeb in all his infinite wisdom decides to character assassinate her into the very thing she was the opposite of.
Not only that, Sam Reimi's MJ also behaves like Gwen at times. As much as I love the movies, they did irreparable damage to Mary Jane's image in the public's mind
Current 616 Spider-Man Run truly made appreciate how underground is Moon Knight to the point of giving Jed Mackay & Alessandro Capuccio's what none 616 Spider-Man writer & artist has had for the past 20 years: *CREATIVE FREEDOM*
Eh. Moon Knight's not a great example. The run is well-written don't get me wrong, and it's *relatively* in a more niche corner of the MU, but he's absolutely suffering from a form of editorial interference. Marvel's trying to push him more thanks to the terrible MCU show, and one of the ways that shows through in the newest comics is how all ambiguity is abandoned: all the magic and fantastical nonsense Moon Knight interacts with is completely and totally real, as opposed to older comic runs, where there was always room for interpretation - it could be real magic, or it could all just be manifestations of MK's wartime and childhood traumas and paranoia affecting his already-damaged mental state. Marvel seems to believe that turning Moon Knight into just "another magic dude but he's Egyptian/Moon themed I guess" is the path to making him marketable. Jed just happened to form a good story inside this status quo.
Pretty sure freaking sorcerer supreme doctor strange straight up said "konshu is real" on the old comics (Wich bring a whole can of worms of not helping Marc whit him, but that's apart) @@fanb1536
@@fanb1536I think the real ambiguity regarding the supernatural was only possible in the original run, where it was uncertain if Khonshu was real, if Marc truly resurrected, and if Marc literally had multiple personalities. Those questions were answered after the original volume. Although other writers have found ways of replicating it, like the Lemire run always being unclear on what’s real and what’s in Marc’s head to the very end.
Was so hyped to start collecting Spider-Man after rediscovering comics in the Pandemic. Fast-Forward a few years and now I have an almost completed run of the crossover-diluted Paul chronicles and I just want my money back.
I don't hate Paul. Paul is nothing, he's an empty shell created to serve a singular purpose. I hate the Marvel editorial. The Marvel editorial has been leading Spider-Man fans on and manipulating them for years all just to make money. They deserve to lose their jobs with no hope of ever getting into the comics industry again.
10:51 hated? I don't think past tense would ever apply to this, people will forever hate paul. Not a single soul unironically likes paul, if someone does I'd assume they're a homunculus without a soul
The current run has been so bad, but I did genuinely laugh my ass off at that bit when Pete goes to steal from the FF and Ben walks in just as he's about to.
Jonathan Hickman: Peter and MJ are happily married, and have two children, and they’re all a happy family Zeb, on his bullshit again: You know what this story needs? Needs more Paul.
It's quite telling about what Marvel editorial thinks about their readers when their idea of keeping spider man "relatable" is to make him lonely and miserable.
Paul may just be one of, if not the most hated character of all spiderman's comic continuities. The hatred for him runs so deep, even when he isnt being a constant blight on the plot and we see Peter get over the fact that essentially because of him he's all alone, you still cant quell the dislike for him. You can never like Paul, at best you can tolerate him
This is the equivalent of training your star athlete with the top of the line tech, coaching, and nutrition and win in turn they always wins gold medals and above, only to replace it all with their entire diet being solely laxative products and with no water, training, or coaching. Sure, some people are gonna attend to point and laugh at the champion gold medalist crapping their pants for the 1st few times, but they've been living off pure laxatives for 4 years now, and the bit has been long overdue to be over after the 1st few times, yet it's still happening and now mostly everyone gave up on whatever.
There is so much wrong with Paul as character, what he represents, feeling like a self-insert, and just beening needlessly "good" at everything. Also giving MJ an Omnitrix for super powers didnt help
Stopped reading Amazing Spider-man about a year ago because of the Paul business. It nearly made me swear off comics altogether, and I'm only just coming back to it with the new ultimate universe. Fantastic video but now I'm pissed off again that it happened.
Nope a lot more higher ups agreed with him and still agree with him and the writer was perfectly fine with the decision, he just had some annoyances with the execution (and not the deal with the devil part, keep that in mind). Quesada knows a good part of being the editor is taking the blame for everything that goes wrong and is perfectly fine doing so to keep others out of the crossfire.
@@spectacleHD There's a difference between agreeing with somebody and being the originator of the idea. Quesada was not just an editor, he was the EIC at the time. He was and still is openly disdainful of their marriage. Additionally, during and after the publication of the story it became known that he was the prime contributor to the story. It was an idea he wanted to do. Yes, others were ok with doing it but the source is Quesada. Without him OMD doesn't happen.
I want to believe 6160 Peter saw Paul and all the One More Day stuff in the file and thought “Wow…. Wouldn’t that happen to me though” before letting the spider bite him
Honestly, at this point, I think they should make Chat from Marvel Adventures canon to 616 and have her be Peter's love interest going forward. Despite being from a comic aimed at kids, she's actually very well-written and serves as a perfect antidote to modern portrayals of MJ.
I love ultimate x-men and Spider-man. They are just wild good times. Seeing Jameson being this family friend to the Parker’s but still having that Jameson bluster we all love is great, giving peter’s son a copy of his own book he self published along with a pep talk about hard work and doing it yourself was a very sweet moment. I never expected to see Jameson get this oddly wholesome vibe in a comic since he almost cosmically hates spider-man, but him being so indifferent to spider-man cause he has better things to worry about makes me appreciate how different yet similar he is to the old Jameson. That is just one part of this run I love there is a lot to appreciate in this book.
The thing is, nobody wants to read a comic book and be reminder about the relatable parts of life that make us miserable. It feels like marvel is punishing us for their decisions to keep peter in a constant loop.
The reason why everyone hates Paul so much is because of what he stood for. For years fans wanted Peter and MJ to get back together and it seemed like they were about to finally get married again. But then Zeb Wells, Marvel, Disney, pulled this and broke the two up and undid everything that people have been waiting all these years for. Not only that but they did it in the most B***S*** way possible. They suddenly had MJ get married to some random guy and have kids with him and told how that happened in a random story that plot felt out of nowhere. That was only the start as Peter's life started to go down hill fast as Marvel believes that Spiderman can't have a happy life because that somehow makes him unrelatable to readers. All in all, Spiderman is the perfect example on how people take advantage of the icons of the past and twist them into anything that could sell for a lot of money.
I hate how incompetent they made Peter appear at the start of Well’s run. I like Tombstone and all but Peter literally beat Carnage/Norman to a pulp in the last run without using any symbiote weaknesses, I’m supposed to believe he’d beg for his life? edit: Also glad you’re feeling better to release this video Alex
Honestly I think we're through the thick of it with Paul. The initial shock is over. Everybody knows him, everybody hates him, Editorial got the reaction they wanted and the jokes are mostly over. Now with the positive receptions to the "adult" Peter with Ultimate and Spiderverse I'm now sure Marvel is aware of that there is an audience that wants to see MJ and Peter grow up with a much more stable mellow tone rather than the constant up and down that is Spider man is constantly forced to go through.
Given how recently the editors made it very clear that they have zero intention of bringing Peter and MJ back together, I doubt they learned a damned thing.
As long as Ultimate stays as a side run we are.... Pretty safe? We can expect some issues with the relationship later on(as is usual in stories) but I don't think they will go the same route as the Amazing run because of how people hated it so much that they cheered for the "One Bad Day" event they wrote for spiderman
the ultimate comic, spiderverse, the video games. There are so many versions of peter that is with mj and also happy, and those media sell insanely well. But it still doesn't change the comics because the editors want you to be mad, it's the only way they get attention on the 616 comics anymore
I'm still pretty convinced that Marvel should have kept Ben around more after Maximum Clonage so they could have the single swinging Spider-Man and Peter & MJ could grow and have a family. Hell, Peter could have also set up a tech company and bankrolled Ben as a full-time Spiderman.
They want to push miles these days and I feel like the easiest, simplest and most obvious way to do that would bet to just let Peter get on with his life already. Let Peter move naturally into the role of the older mentor with his own family who's been through it all, while Miles fills the gap of the younger inexperienced hero who struggles with rent. Why in gods green earth is Peter Parker still having rent issues? Let the man move on already.
Funny that in Spiderverse, Peter B. Parker was the older, jaded Spider-Man. His relationship with MJ failed, his Aunt May dies and he has no one important in his life when we meet him. After meeting Miles, he goes home, relindles his marriage, has a daughter, and guess what? EVERYONE loves that.
Because he's the 1 in one million.If Peter having a happy life was the norm,then people wouldn't be as happy about it
@petrenicolae3282 it also helps that he's written damn near perfectly and is genuinely likeable.
@@notmariolevi2863 that too.
Not to mention the new Ultimate Spiderman
Please give Mayday a new series, Marvel
unironically one of the funniest things in marvel history is being so bad at your job that millions cheer for the death of children💀
Goblins getting out of control they need to touch some water😂
I saved some of those tweets. So god damn funny “Yeah! F%CK THEM KIDS WOOOOOO-“
Erhm they’re not real children in case you didn’t notice☝️🤓
@@rudyisabot you okay with a lolicon playing with a loli since loli is not real but base on little kids🤨
@@Erpdc-y6w It was satire. But yeah I don’t see the appeal to lolicon. Sounds like an excuse for fantasizing about children. Especially when people bring up “women can have petite bodies, ever heard of that?” It’s so stupid I swear. Just talk about women that are petite if that’s the case.
Editors: “We can’t let Peter be happy because it would upset the readers.
Literally everyone: “We want him to be happy please.”
He should have some struggles in his life, but the point is that "being relatable" is not turning his life into a torture chamber and humilliating him every chance you get. Marvel thinking that more suffering is better don't understand their own character.
@@EvilRyuGuy We said the same thing.
He is too white to be happy
Seriously!!!
Yes. All of this.
The funniest part of the whole Paul situation is watching Marvel fans find both background characters who look like him and other characters named Paul in older Spider-Man books or even other marvel books. He’s always been there. Watching. Planning. A fucking multiverse constant.
Doctor Who level retroactive continuity tbh
One piece level of foreshadowing
ngl i actually wanna see some examples
@@fcomolineiro7596Attack On Titan level foreshadowing
@@fcomolineiro7596 "Will of D." "The Name of the Doctor." The Doctor's name is Will!
"GET BACK HERE PAUUUUUL-!"
"PAUUUUUUL-!"
"YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME-!"
"I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EAAAARTH-!"
😂😂😂 I understood that reference 👍
What reference is that from?
@@stone6242 spider-man
@@stone6242spiderman the animated series where peter in the black suit is chasing after shocker and Christopher Daniel Barnes drops the most aggressive line for a spiderman cartoon
Oh golly, that brings me back. Good stuff, that was.
I saw this on Reddit, but I agree:
Paul is the narrative foil to Peter nobody wanted. Where Peter sacrificed of himself to make New York a better place, Paul endangered others for his own wants, as shown when he shoved Peter through the portal, trapping MJ in another dimension with him for "years". Where Peter's self-sufficient, Paul is highly dependent. Where Pete stands up for what he knows is right, Paul takes the high horse of not fighting his own battles. Where Peter risks his life to protect people and gets villainized for it, Paul helped commit the most heinous crimes against humanity and gets validated for it. Paul being "just a guy" isn't enough. Paul being "the villain the entire time" isn't enough.
If this run doesn't take the time and effort to actively rebuke Paul and restore some semblance of Peter's dignity and status among his fellow heroes, then this run will have amounted to nothing but a masturbatory attempt to inflict another layer of misery porn on a character that never deserved this mistreatment.
I'm hoping they reveal either Paul put a mind control device in the bracelet he gave MJ for her powers and ends up getting dogged on physically and verbally for all his crap; Jackpot is a clone of MJ Paul made cuz the real one died in his world and he tried replacing her out of guilt; Or Mephisto kidnapped MJ and replaced her with a fake to try and drive her and Peter apart for good.
Either way this could make way to redeem MJ and then Marvel can finally try growing a brain and make a story that undoes One More Day.
With new stories having Peter finally having the life he was meant to have. Maybe have reality get warped to make it so that Mayday has been alive for about a decade now and can go on adventures as a young Spider-Girl being trained by her daddy, and Peter gets back his Other enhancments and and stable job that allows him to build better tech and be a greater version of Spider-Man
@@CS08129 my long standing fan theory is that the baby they had in the 90’s is still alive in a pocket dimension
@@CS08129not gonna happen bro
@@CS08129for the third one, I can see Mephisto wanting to punish Paul because even though he's literal Satan, even HE has standards
So we agree Venom needs to eat Paul
I honestly think the fact that his name is Paul makes it 20% worse
It's better because you can choose to believe that it's all an elaborate setup for a "Hey Paul!" joke
lol, reminds me of the first show I watched as a kid that made a play at the name called Recess which had the popular/rich girls the Ashleys and how this funny line from one of them saying how they'd have to then date boys with names like Paul or Joe which the very thought disgusted them all.
I still haven't forgotten Paul from third grade
I hate you Paul
“Robbing Peter to pay Paul.”
@@SonicLegendsrecess goated ong
Paul is basically the living representation of the fact that Peter is never allowed to be happy. If his personal life is miserable, how can any other facet of his life be anything but?
Not only that he is also serving as this weird embodiment of this weird idea editorial is forcing of "Look MJ can be happy without Peter, her life doesn't need to revolve around him" and then fans go "Okay fine yes Peter and MJ can be happy without eachoth-" "NO, that is not what we said. We said MJ can be happy without Peter. Peter is constantly miserable and so in love with MJ still that he might try to move on and might even say he is moving on and it is getting easier. But he isn't and we will keep reinforcing this is the worst thing that could have ever happened to him, no matter how he tries to hide it"
So not only do they not want MJ and Peter together. Which that happens in comics all the time, a once iconic couple breaks up and never gets back together and find happiness with other people, but they also want to reinforce Peter can never get over it to find happiness with one of his other Love Interests.
screw that peter parker needs a break
Marvel writers life suck so they make Peter's life suck, that's all there is too it.
Hmm.. Peter getting married? No! No! Kids won't relate!
Have him sell his unborn daughter's soul to Mephisto, go back in time, and experience an insane amount of agony of getting screwed over and over, and over again. Kids will definitely relate to that guy!
@@DTheAustralian at this point it would be more relatable for Peter to just... Abandon his life as Peter Parker and become Spiderman full time, like everything he suffers so much from his civilian life because of the Marvel editorial that physically getting beating up feels like the less painful thing to watch.
I'm not saying this would be the best direction for the character, but if Marvel is hellbent on making Peter's love life miserable, then maybe he should just give up on it. Like if I was Spiderman, I would probably be too depressed about my life to go out fighting crime or I would straight up release all my pent-up aggression on my villains (Tombstone should be in a hospital bed, like Zeb Wells writes him to be such a loser that he struggles in every fight despite the fact he is holding back, if he got more serious I guarantee Tombstone wouldn't be able to land a hand on Spidey)
"Hey Paul!" *rushes to him with an axe*
Lmfao I got that reference 😂
I understood that reference.
"You ever listen to Huey Lewis and The News, Paul?"
*''try stealing my wife now you stupid f-ing b-stard!!!''*
Let's see Paul Rabin's card...
You know you fucked up as a writer when during a moment that is meant to show how far Pete has fallen, resorting to killing someone while under the influence of Norman's sins, your readers are cheering him on.
It was so funny seeing people go "can we let him have this?" online, cause it's what I was thinking too
And laughing at the evaporation of his kids
Yeah, I have seen so much fan art of Peter unalive Paul is a proof of that.
The writers wrote that to make fun of the fans who hated Paul but it only fueled them even more
“YEEES PETER K1LL HIM”
Paul is definitely a cut above the rest because he somehow found a way to Garner more hate from Spider-Man fans than an literal demon who erased decades of character growth and chemistry between Peter and MJ.
mephisto is the devil. it's expected, makes it a lot harder to hate the character with the same vitriol, since that's just what he does. Paul, however, is a non-character for most of the run, whose sole reason for existing as a character is to keep peter down. He's not the devil, he's just one really fucking annoying piece of dead weight dragging peter and the comic down
Amazingly put. While Mephisto's role serves as a plot device, his existence is very loosely justified, the act he does makes sense under the logic of the universe, in the case of Paul its like you just made your room shining clean and there's a fly fucking around, it doesn't make sense and its there when it shouldn't be
I find it so freaking funny that mephisto interacted with wayep before wayep appeared again in this run. The route to retcon this as mephisto trying to manipulate everyone and ruin the relationship again is so freaking easy they could fix it in 1 issue
@@desertplanet3253 Pretty much, at least the goddamn Devil made a trade with Parker: His aunt get sto live longer (cause she was dieing of a disease) but his marriage and relationship with MJ gets reseted. The trade is pretty rough but at least Peter kept most of the knowledge and could try to rebuild it again (as anoying as it was).
Paul just come out of nowhere like a flying turd yeeted by the writers.
At least Mephisto give peter a choice on should He erased his child and marriage to save his aunt or let her die
Paul doesn't give him any choice, He just show up and take everything that peter want
"See ya, chumps" at the death of Paul's kids had me rolling lmao
SAME LMAO
LMAOOOOO
"fuck them kids"
Not your problem
Gonna cry Paul?
We live in a world where Ash Ketchum won a pokemon League and rode off into the sunset. Maybe someday we could see Peter Parker earn his happy ending too.
I’m still in denial about Ash. It took my entire lifetime, basically.
I mean, it truly showed that to beat the best , you don’t need strategy or type advantages, just a level 100 starter is enough
he finally became the champion it only took him the artstyle
@alanthieris4447
That'll never happen because these chuckle-heads who apparently never really experienced life, misery=relatability.
it was wonderful, it was unbelievable, 20 years waiting and he ACTUALLY did it. And it wasn't retconned. It was incredible!
I think it's just that Paul is the straw that broke the camel's bsck after years of Marvel editorial just fucking shitting on the Spider-man fanbase with their insistence of Spider-man not being able to have a good and happy life.
I mean you act like fans didn't agree with that. in like 2020, right before the spider-man online discourse was 'why can't editorial just let spider-man be happy' the spider-man online discourse was 'spider-man stories only work when he's unhappy'.
I mean, that was kinda the moral of Across the Spider-Verse, the thing that makes a spider, never giving up, and so the only way to truly test that and put spider-man in a compelling story is to put him through the wringer
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868
Absolutely true but the problem is Paul ends the mj/peter drama that has been the basis of Peter’s entire love life and in a way where our main character is basically cucked, it’s not even Peter being sad it’s an insult to his entire history with mj
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 bro what? The moral of Across the Spiderverse is literally the opposite, that Spiderpeople don't have to suffer those canon events to be Spider-Man. Miguel is literally framed as the villain for believing that to suffer is to be Spider-Man.
And now Sales are dropping with others comics like the new Ultimate Spider-Man outselling the main comics.
616 Spidey editorial essentially screwed a top comics series due to their obsession with a status quo.
@@crimsoneclipse0618I feel that Paul like you said open peoples eyes to how spider-man as a series really is now. Stagnant and full with a lot of oversight with the stories that won’t explore more with the characters. It’s like the second coming of OMD for modern reader
I'm begging people to stop buying ASM. Every editorial kick in the pants sent our way is justified by sales numbers. Stop reinforcing their actions.
😲
Hey Cap. Weird seeing you here. How's it hanging?
How are you holding up, Captain?
Way ahead of you
Holy shit, is that the saucer himself? Hope you’re doing good man
Why the fuck should I ever care about 616 spiderman ever again. If marvel doesn't want him to progress due to a fear of alienating their audience, then that means he will never progress even if MJ is gone. So if spiderman can't progress in life since he has to be relatable, he ends up not being relatable. So.... why should any of us care about this guy? He's stuck in time, and all of us are moving on.
You know why they insist on it? Because MJ Parker is an idea from the Jim Shooter Era and if you know anything about the likes of Joe Q and his ilk, they abhor everything about the man. It starts to add up when you consider how the company effectively flew off the rails into bankruptcy within a few years after he was ousted and the unacceptable garbage that makes it past editorial is something you get when you don’t have an editor in chief who does their job.
Marvel has already alienated their audience around the late 2010’s to now where absolute atrocities too numerous to name offhand that not even mid-90’s Marvel at its most dire would be pleased to put out. They forever alienated a lot of people when they thought One More Day needed to be made and has kept alienating more by have a bunch of Joe Q’s loyalists refuse to budge on the fact the divorce is a bad idea because it meant admitting that Jim actually did something good.
Hell, half of the BS in the industry tends to be largely from Silver Age fans basically running the asylum and the big two trying to avoid giving their most popular to the families of their creators including Captain America as per the law regarding intellectual property. I could be wrong but it does explain a lot of things.
@@rayvenkman2087 Wasn't Shooter out from Marvel when they married MJ and Peter?
I mean Peter is progressing seeing as though he and Venom have reunited in the Venom War run
@@Jepze158When did he leave in 1987 relative to ASM Annual #21?
And you know what's the worst part about it? That the editors *actually believe* they're doing the right thing.
A fan sent a letter to Marvel criticising the current Spider-Man run, calling it a disservice to the character and to the creators. How did editor Nick Lowe respond to that? By claiming that Stan, Ditko, and Romita Sr. wouldn't want Peter's life to develop, even though they were there to make Peter grow. The gall of these atrocious people and their immature way of thinking.
It’s insane that a decade after One More Day, we’ve yet to recover
>tfw one more day was 17 years ago
One More Day and its consequences have been a disaster for Spider-mankind
“We’ve yet to recover”
More like Marvel actively choose NOT to recover
@@JCShadow0202 I don’t think it will ever recover that wound will most likely continue to fester with the occasional rubbing of salt into the wound making it worse.
@@bearerofbadnews1375 gangrenous and requiring amputation
Fans: We love married spider-man!
Marvel: Fans only like spiderman when he's single.
Fans: No! We like him being married!
Marvel: Erase the marriage from existence.
Fans: NOOOOO! WE WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR THIS
Marvel: Huh, why is Spider-man not selling as well as it used to. Maybe no one has heard he's single again?
To Paul:
Let me say Im the biggest hater
I hate the way you walk
The way you talk
I hate the way you dress
I hate the way you sneak diss
If i catch flight its gonna be direct
Euphoria but it being about Paul would go kinda hard ngl
Dear MJ, I'm sorry that that man is your husband lemme be honest
Beat yo ahh and hide the comics if Stan watchin'
It's not just me, I'm what the culture feelin'
this ain't been about fans, not about writers, not about who the greatest
it's always been about love and hate, now let me say I'm the biggest hater
i hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, i hate the way that you dress
i hate the way you date mj, if peter catch flight it's gon' be direct
we hate the girl that you like 'cause she confuses herself with who she datin'
and notice, i said "we," it's not just me, I'm what the fandom feelin'
how many more fairytale stories 'bout your life 'til we had enough?
how many more backstories 'til you finally feel that you're worthy enough?
i like paul in the background, i don't like paul when he act tough
you gon' make a [buddy :)] bring back bendis, lemme see if jackpot really crash somethin'
yeah, parker's first one like his last one, it's a classic, you don't have one
let the editors stomach that, then tell 'em where they lost their audience from
jackpot, it's a fast one, baow-baow-baow, last one
headshot for the year, you better fly around like goblin
remember?
ayy, parker, who the fuck he think he playin' with?
murder's your middle name as soon as he messes up your life, bitch
I'm allergic to the lame shit, only you like bein' famous
MJ can't give you no swag neither, i don't give a fuck 'bout who you hang with
surprised you wanted that children request, you know that you got some shit to address
i even hate when you say the word "peter," but that's just me i guess
your life just cringeworthy, it ain't even gotta be deep, i guess
still love when you see success, everything with watson is blessed
keep makin' him dance, being real bland, and you'll be seen a threat
this is terrible and has awful flow but it's funny (i will do more if comments want)
The worst part of Ms. Marvel being the one to sacrifice herself is, that was _also_ an act of the editors meddling. The whole thing was orchestrated so that she could be resurrected as a mutant, because she's a mutant in the MCU instead of an inhuman, and there needs to be brand consistency between the comics and films.
She was always meant to be a mutant. The reason she wasn’t because when she was created Marvel was pissed at FOX because of movie rights.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxbut you know that's not why they did this, almost 10 years after the fact wasn't to "make things right", it was 100% because of the MCU bullshit
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxAnd thank god for that, because the Inhumans were never that popular she was allowed to be her own character insted of just another mutant that would end up as a brackground character, If you follow X-Men comics for long enough you will notice that every couple years they created a New generation of young mutants but usually only a few of them end up sticking around and stay relevant
And now.... she's both! As it was already established she's inhuman due to an ancestor marrying an inhuman. Thus they just had another ancestor marry a mutant. We've gotten a hint of what will probably come, kamala having her polymorph powers and her new mutant powers (her mcu powers) at the same time and combing them together for cool moves. That's gonna be fun.
Kamala has been messed up from the beginning because of executive meddling. The creators wanted her to be a mutant but Disney refused to make new mutants because of petty reasons to not pay Fox, so inhuman it is. The mutant decision in the MCU just caused even more problems and they went the absolute worst route to give her the MCU powers. Just have it that her mutant gene overrides the inhuman one or something while she's helping Spider-Man, not whatever happened in ASM 25.
I remember in the 90s, kids could never decide if Peter's greatest villain was Green Goblin, Doc Ock, or Venom.
Turns out, the actual answer was the Marvel Editorial Staff.
It always has been. Who else would turn a superhero into misery porn?
"Kids can't relate to a Peter who's married and has kids that's not going to work."
Oh man if only there was a younger Spider-Man who could be the vessel to tell stories the kids could relate to. They should make a character like that. Call him Mike or something.
Yeah.. Mike moral or something
kilometer immorales
Yeah wouldn't be whacky if there were two massively successful theatrical movies with this Spider-Man that kids saw and enjoyed? And we don't get free money since we'd rather promote Peter suffering for the 85th time?
Here's the funny thing about relatability: according to Enterprise Today and Zippier the average American comic reader is over 30. Seriously. Kids aren't really reading comics right now (probably because they're so expensive).
What's relatable to a 30-year-old? Balancing their marriage, their careers, their families, and their personal needs. Aging. Stability. No wonder Ultimate Spider-Man is selling like hotcakes- it's a version of Peter that's going through the same struggles as his audience.
And maybe he could be a real awesome dude with a lot of MORALS...
Maybe Mike Morals? That sounds good.
Modern Spider-Man fans to Marvel are like:
“I come before you today, humbled and humiliated, to ask you for one thing... I want you to kill Paul.”
I have to give a sincere apology to that version of Eddie, I finally understand the sheer fucking rage that drove him to pray for someone's death lol
@@archivist_13 Same. I feel exactly the same.
Better Call Paul! (to die)
Real
the only thing anyone can do to stop paul and get marvel to do something else is to stop buying the mainline comic. just stop.
I'm 95% sure paul is a self insert for the writer who wants to be married to MJ. It's reads like a fanfic its so out of character.
who even reads amazing anymore? it’s literally peter’s hell/purgatory
They don’t even like mj
This whole video is a repeating sequence of "Okay this can work and here's how but also it's vague enough that thenwriters can play with it still" then followed by "Oh not only did they not do that they rereaffirmed that they are so dedicated to the status quo of perpetual peter pergatory that they'll shred the rest of the status quo in order to keep it."
Well... that is why fans are mad.
@@cooldud7071 I did not intend to come off as claiming otherwise, apologies.
This comment was meant to be in agreement with what you just said.
@@youtubeuniversity3638 It's fine. I get where you're coming from.
The fans are very insisting in filling in the blanks and fixing marvel's shit, yes
Paul isn't a character: he's a plot device. He only exists to keep Peter and MJ apart.
And they're trying too little too late to develop him past that with his list
He exist to make Peter a cuck
It's really weird that people all seem to agree that these peripheral works: Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Verse, the cartoons, movies, and games, all seem to tell the real story of Peter Parker. The mainline comic ironically feel like the mutated, less-accurate version of that story, because in many ways it is.
Not the game, never the game. Id I wanted budget Lois lane maybe, or a bland Miles probably, but otherwise never the game
I think if they hadn't canceled the show, spectacular spiderman would've told a near perfect spiderman story.
Tbh, that's what the Ultimate universe was for. Most mainline characters are completely fucked, Captain America and Iron Man are in the same ship.
That moment Peter's former enemy who may or may not have eaten brains is now off, being a universal hero, offered Avengers status multiple times, with a son, is allowed to progress, and even has an ending to his story that's a future version of himself. Not bad, Brock.
Its insane how Peter's biggest and 2nd biggest villains are doing great now
I can't not find it hilarious that the asshole who tormented Peter, the one whose villain origin was praying in a church and getting stuck to an alien, had one of the happiest characters right now and is literally symbiote jesus. I'm abbreviating it a bit but Eddie was genuinely very well written during this time and him not being around as much is a nice change to the status quo, MARVEL
@@Subpar1O1 I agree, is funny and honestly just sad that Eddie Brock of all people, who mind you was praying at that church before intending to eat some lead in a literal sense is having a better state of mind and life compared to Peter Parker. I hate that they don't let Peter be able to have some sort of happiness as Eddie is having. Ideally though Anne would also be alive and well to be with Eddie and Dylan as well, but I can work with what we have currently for the Brock's, hopefully this whole Venom War thing ends on a decent note for Eddie and Dylan, sucks that Peter and the symbiote aren't going to stay together after it. I figure it'd be a good change, hell I figure the symbiote would even try to motivate Peter to fix his life around and maybe get back with MJ... And that's also probably one of the reasons Marvel Editorial wouldn't bother keeping the symbiote around in Peter's life after this event finishes in whatever way it does...
@@dliatsos1 Agreed. It's pretty obvious that the reason Peter can't stay with the symbiote is because that would mean that there would always be someone in Peter's corner who had his back.
isn't meridius hella evil? just because he's a future version of Eddie doesn't mean he's a positive ending for the character
I never got the argument that they want to keep peter young when MILES IS RIGHT THERE, he represents the younger audience, let peter grow man🤦♂️
Miles up until about 6 years ago, wasn't much of a character. He was introduced in 2011, but really didn't have any interesting personality or characteristics going on. It was really due to the success of ITSV and Marvel's Spider-Man 2018 video game, that Miles started to really stand out as a character and popularity.
Miles comics these past 2 years though have been great and engaging. Like they stand out and are miles (pun intended) ahead of Peter's.
On top of what the person above me explained about Miles not really existing during the _One More Day_ debacle, much less existing in the mainline universe, there's additional issue that the "keep Peter young" thing has always felt like a pretext anyway. This especially since it's not like actual "youths" would care about if he was married or not short of his married civilian life threatening to take over the entirety of his series, which it never did. The closest it ever got to that was ironically with _One More Day_ itself given what a false argument it was (and how stupid Mephisto's fixation & that storyline in general were/are).
Not to mention that we have MULTIPLE comic versions of Peter.... so having one version grow WOULD be relatable.
Hell, I grew up as a kid reading about a married Peter Parker and I also read Spider-Girl comics with Peter as a DAD.....
And I never stopped relating to him....
Even if you don't like Miles (which most comic fans have made obvious), removing the ONE chance they had to make a new protegé (Benjy, Mayday ect.) is insanely stupid.
they never wanted to keep him young one of the garbage writers just has a cuckold fetish and is just making excuses 😂
"Daddy? What's Spiderman about?"
"It's about a man who's not allowed to be happy."
I'm going to become a comic writer and climb the ladder at Marvel for years until I get to write on a Spider-Man series so I can write a story where it's revealed Paul has been killing people and the Punisher mag dumps him.
I’d buy that
Godspeed
Good luck, another writer will probably just retcon his death, bring him back with super powers or do a multiversal reset and make a part of history since the beggining.
I will be waiting for that, friend. make sure you tag me once that happen.
Have Peter try and save Paul but fail to, would be so freaking ironic.
I already knew about that Ms. Marvel death controversy before I watched the video, but knowing now that it was connected to the whole Paul thing is just… awful, to put it simply.
And the thing is, as an X-Men reader, I was suddenly dropped Ms. Marvel as a super important character and Mutant hero of the future with mysterious powers she hasn't accessed yet unrelated to her Inhuman powers, and I was like... Huh?
"We wouldn't want to alienate the yougner fans!" The editor said, not understanding that nobody under the age of 25 buys comic books.
"HERE'S ONE PAUL YOU'LL NEVER CRAWL YOU RED AND BLUE BUFFOON"
- Paul, 2024 (probably)
He became Paul when a brick Paul fell on him, transforming him into a living Paul.
Disturbing when you really think about it.
thank you quote from cave story
HE’S TRYING TO AJUST WITH NO WRIST CONTROLS
✍️🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@sanguine-moon
Finally someone else recognises, no problem
33:46 is so fkn funny, Paul's voice actor genuinely doesn't care and Peter's is channeling his inner "SHOCKEEEEEERRRRRR!!!"
I guess even his VA barely care who he is...i mean i wouldn't blame them
ONOREEEEE, DIKEIDOOOOO
@@rifarira9160 was not expecting to see a Kamen Rider reference in the replies to this, even if I was thinking along similar lines
if peter hits the ichigo pose at least once i'm gonna be happy
GET BACK HERE SHOCKER! I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTHHH!!
"You can't change the past" unless we're talking about making Peter's life worse than it's okay to change it
"You can't change the past" is wild when it has literally happened in this universe
Paul managed to piss marvel readers off so much that they got away with having Ms. Marvel, a Muslim girl, die in Pieta pose, a pose used to allude to the death of Jesus Christ, and not a single person commented on how disrespectful it was to both faiths. Marvel editorial got away with a double sacrilege, all because fans were too distracted hating on Paul.
Tbf it’s Jews they hate everyone not Jewish
Her death as a whole was disrespectful to the character. Like, she died without anyone she was actually close to, she's not that close with Peter, if her death is affecting a Spider-Man it's Miles who's one of her best friends.
She didn't die in one story centered around here or where she was a key player surrounded by characters who knew her well and she cared for. She died in this random event, surrounded by mostly strangers, and ended up bleeding out in an alleyway. Not a fitting death if I've ever seen one.
☹️
@@ThyFloorestFloor apparently her death has smth to do with the company wanting to rewrite her backstory so that she's a mutant like they originally planned
F islam
I love how you separated each part of the video into the 5 Stages of Grief regarding Zeb Well's Spider-Man run.
I am so thankful Jonathan Hickman came around and save Spiderman's legacy with his fantastic Ultimate Spiderman current run, which gives us the Peter Parker we want to see, an older Peter who is happily married to MJ and has two adorable kids and starts a whole new chapter starting out as Spiderman and works alongside Harry Osborn as Green Goblin.
Thank you, Jonathan Hickman
Let's definitely enjoy it while we can, I can already sense things starting to crumble...I doubt it would ever get as bad as the main continuity though.
@@FrankieD8283pray to whatever god you know that ultimatum doesn't happen again
Credit to the Spider-Verse movies too. It started out with a Peter Parker alone and miserable and by the end of Into he was encouraged to reconcile with MJ. Then the next movie shows Pete is a happy father to an adorable baby girl and married to a supportive wife, it was so good to see.
Jonathan Hickman based Earth-6160 Peter Parker on Earth-616 Reed Richards and Earth-6160 Mary Jane Watson-Parker on Earth-616 Susan Storm-Richards
The sheer hatred Spider-Man fans have for this man will never not warm my heart
I don't even read comics, I just adore Spiderman fans hating on Paul's existence
Are we not gonna talk about how they sacrificed the only serialized version of Ms Marvel for this pointless war on the fanbase? She's dead now, and she had nothing to do with it! The grand finale of the whole Raven arc was him murdering a teenager who Peter barely knew. What the fuck, Marvel
They needed an excuse to reveal that she was a mutant by bringing her back via the Resurrection Protocols. One of the dumbest moves ever and completely undermine her creators original intent.
@@geraldobrien5956actually her creator meant for her to be a mutant but editorial flat out told her to change because Marvel at the time was trying to downplay the X-men. They flat out forbid new mutant characters.
Yeah I'm gonna miss Kamala
Ms. Marvel was resurrected like two months later. Her death did not stick in the slightest. She’s had two miniseries published recently.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9px Probably because of the whole movies thing that became pointless after Disney bought Fox and got the rights to X-men again. Even if it was a very petty thing to do in the first place.
Paul just gives off Subway Jared vibes. He's not into kids, but there's something insidious and unnatural about him when you look at the cracks in his goofy persona, like the main villain in The Stepfather.
I mean he die lie to and gaslight a taken woman into abandoning her love for her partner to start a relationship with him…
(This is only a mild exaggeration since MJ didn’t even know Paul’s last name until years after she met him; never mind the genocide stuff)
He reminds me of Todd from The Boys.
@@SuperBatman1939did he actually lie and gaslight mj into abandoning Peter? I thought that was a natural progression in context to the story
@@DJET723he did set it up by pushing Peter through the portal and making it so he was stuck in that plane with MJ. Obviously there was no nefarious intent with that but it doesn't feel natural, it still always feels like Paul didn't really earn anything, his relationship feels like it's built on a lie
@@DJET723 He literally told her he was from Earth 616 when he wasn’t. He didn’t tell her about the time difference between dimensions despite knowing about it (“a long time ago, for me at least”). He told her to give up on ever seeing Peter again immediately after Peter was sent back and kept encouraging her to give up on him returning. Oh and there’s the fact that he didn’t tell her the truth about her situation, about his role in the ruined world, or his last name until YEARS after meeting her (AFTER she had started sleeping with him btw).
Nothing about this is natural.
MJ’s bf is a dude from another universe who accidentally genocided that universe and didn’t tell her until way after.
MJ wouldn’t have ever fallen for Paul, and she sure as hell wouldn’t still be with him after discovering the truth.
But Zeb gotta Zeb.
I mean Goku has a kid and he's still loved by young readers. I just think those editors just hate peter being happy.
Paul is like the actual fictional representation of Spider-Man editorial. He's a representation of what Joe Quesada, Nick Lowe, and Tom Breevoort believe Spider-Man should be. He keeps Peter from being with Mary Jane, he is in part a reason as to why Peter isn't happy, which is what they always believe Peter should be. But most of all, he directly regresses Peter's character once again. At the end of the Nick Spencer run, Peter was finally in a good place, he and Mary Jane were about to move in together, and then Paul comes in and goes "sorry bruh, not on my watch". I can't for the life of me think of another Marvel or DC character who has an editorial team who is so disconnected with their fanbase on how a character should be written. It's actually crazy!
Dc had that problem, lasted 5 years and fixed it. My superman and flash friend is happy they are both married and handling problems again
@@BenM6 That was just one editor: Dan DiDio, and he was infamous for his raging hateboner against Wally since he started working for DC in 2002.
Also, Superman's issues were more a result of a writer: Brian-Michael Bendis. Editorial's problem there was letting him have free reign.
They really don't seem to understand how much they've twisted the concept of 'relatability' into a parody of itself. They seem to think that misery porn is relatable... which is kind of sus, honestly.
@@sumanoskae IKR? It's crazy how a I: a man in his mid-20's who has never had a partner relates more to a 35 year-old married man with two kids than what 616 Peter has become. Hell, I relate more to *Miles* at this point, and I'm white.
@@Hawkatana i heard he hated legacy characters too. Like nightwing.
I think I felt the shockwave of the collective of Spider-man fans globally rejoicing at the reveal of his marrige to MJ and having kids with her in the new Ultimates universe.
They're making _another_ Ultimate universe? Ugh. The first one was already _more_ than enough garbage.
[EDIT] I take it back; I just read the first issue of _Ultimate Spider-Man_ and it was _amazing_ (pun fully intended.)
@@AaronLitzyou seem a little late to the party bud. The ultimate universe has been going for like a year now and isnt anywhere near as bad as the original
Renew your vows and Mayday fans like me literally cried
@@He-who-wakes the problem is that is EXACTLY how the original ultimate universe was recieved. Let's see how the rest of this new ultimate universe plays out.
@@Chuckles3100 i'm begging that this makes an effect were someone at marvel uses USM success to say "you gotta change asm to be more like that other book that is critically acclaimed and makes twice the money" considering this is what supposedly happened with the original usm(although the monetary succes of usm in its beginning seems to be a myth )
"We need to make Peter more relatable for the kids"
(turns Peter into an aged burnout)
“Oh, Peter! I thought I’d lost you!”
“Hm..? MJ? Wh-what’s going on? Ah.. my head…”
“Honey, you’ve been out for months, please, get some rest…”
“Where am I..? What happened to Paul and Mephi-“
“Paul? Honey, who’s Paul?”
“… Ah, he’s nobody. Weird dream I had.”
Oh if only that was what we got...
There's a great fan fan comic with that very premise.
You know a fandom is broken and traumatized when they would legitimately accept the "it was all a dream" at this point
I wrote something like that on a another paul-themed video except he woke up from a nightmare and M.J sleeps besides him asking what he dreamed about.
@@camerondalton1495For real!? Where!? Please tell me 😭
"he can't progress in life he literally wouldn't be relatable anymore"
Can't think of anything more relatable than growing up getting a house getting married and having a couple of kids.... Unless you're a marvel writer who still haven't grown up
It's almost like they don't want you to believe getting married and having a family is a realistic goal for the average person anymore.
And even for the people who don't want that and/or can't relate to it like myself, there's still no real appeal in seeing a character we like *always* be miserable and unable to get the things they want despite constantly being a good person. That it's also at the whims of people who not only use the "unrelatable" excuse but then use thinly-veiled self-inserts as the instruments of Peter's constant misery just make the whole thing even more gross than it already is.
Or not even these things but jist not being misserable all the time and comically bad things hapenning always with you being unable to grow, thats just not relatable by any means
It's so ridiculous that the message we can take away is, "No matter how responsible you are, no matter how much good you do in the world, you will never be recognized for your achievements and anything positive that occurs in your life is doomed to crumble to ash in your hands."
Buying an apartment for your first time? There I thought of one... Took 2 seconds lol
The fact that this is just about this random dude named Paul, who’s kids disappeared is crazy. I would like to put emphasis on the fact his name is Paul
Paul is essentially a face that people can point at as a representation of what's bad about modern spider-man. He as a character is just designed to keep Peter unhappy and never grow or change. He may just be some random guy, but his mere existence is frustrating
It really isnt
@@serenityq26Stop fucking lying.
Paul is the bane to Spider-Man's happiness in physical form
Paul trying to morally grand stand SPIDER-MAN is something that my eyes SHOULD NOT SEE
Edit:I DID NOT EXPECT THIS COMMENT TO GET MORE THAN 3 LIKES THANKS
Please do not provide a timestamp, I don't want to see this
@@archivist_13I won't because NO ONE needs to see that because IT SHOULD NOT EXIST
@@monobro141 WELL SAID
@@monobro141 SHOW ME, MY EYES HUNGER
@@dane1382 I concur with dane. I simply must see the tripe
Despite how dire the situation of the 616 relationship of Pete and mj is at the moment , the community feedback on books like ultimate Spiderman 2023 really gives me hope that one day the dark shadow of editorial influence and writers wanting to keep Pete in a regressive cycle will end (cope)
Apart of it is crazy, because with how many young people still read comics they could’ve used Peter and MJ to show kids what a good healthy couple is. Show Peter being understanding, MJ being supportive, etc. but they threw the opportunity away
Also how classic. Peter is a toxic Guy for being(rightfully) pissed off at his Woman being taken from him. And MJ is Right for…Essentially being assasinated into your typical stockholm syndrome for a guy that kidnapped her and Took her from her life where…yeah it was hard but ultimately happy into her just causing misery to everyone around her
That's the point, I think. They don't want a good healthy couple. They want drama and suspense, which is something that a trusting and solid relationship will kill. I recall there is one old comic that has some actor try to seduce MJ, but she remembers that she is happy with Peter and did not fall for that. No drama and no suspense. Just a good solid relationship. And to those idiots in management at Mavel, boring.
You'd think that, but I don't think anyone involved in the creation of these things even understands that a healthy relationship can exist.
All my homies hate paul
If paul has no haters, I am dead.
Real
Facts
ned undoubtedly singles paul
If you have more than one friend that is that much in touch with comics that they even know paul, I'm jealous
*If Paul has a million enemies, I am one of them.*
*If Paul has only one enemy, I am that one.*
*If Paul has no enemies, it means I am no longer alive.*
*If I do not hate Paul, that means he is finally dead.*
Paul’s like the squid monster from Watchmen, every corner of the Spidey fandom united out of their sheer hatred for him
Really? I liked watchmen, it was a good read and the squid monster thing was a good part of its subversion
@@griggorirasputin6555He's talking about how in watchmen the world unites against the giant squid, not the watchmen fandom
@@griggorirasputin6555I think he means in-universe, like all the nations of the world came together because of the squid monster.
@@Helder70 I see, my bad lmao
@@griggorirasputin6555He's talking about the in-universe reaction to the monster
Also Paul is just the actual personification of the forced or random break ups MJ and Peter have gone through.
Every other time it was just calling out the writers but now we have a name and face to put to it in the comic itself.
Also I hate how much they keep pushing Jackpot for MJ 😭
I swear they push MJ being Jackpot just so they can keep Paul and her relevant
And her Powers are so bad, they are random but she always gets exactly the one she wants, and if she doesn't, she rolls again, bruh
I really hate it, feels like a damn middle finger to the fans.
Jackpot is pretty cool, I just wish it was literally any other character
@@archivist_13Exactly I don't even mind the idea of MJ kicking ass sometimes but her being a whole superhero is just so forced
“2024 will be my year” there’s three months left, Alex
Better late than never
HE FUCKING LIVES!!!! ALEX LIVES!!!!!
HE LIVES
SOMEHOW ALEX RETURNED!!
ALEX LIVES (after a 6 month break 🥴)
HE MANAGED TO BEAT PAUL AND RELEASE HIS EXPOSE
LONG LIVE ALEX!
I think they should give Paul his own comic series, where every time it looks like things will almost go horribly for him but he always comes out better then before. Also have Parker getting beat up in the background of some panels and don't address it.
Marvel's gonna call you.
I think it’s more likely he’ll appear in the next take on marvel zombies as either a red shirt or a background kill.
Or we’ll see Marvel universe vs spiderman and its Paul who created survivor 118.
@@changvasejarik62he'll survive the next marvel zombies. He will be like Rick grimes.
@@changvasejarik62He’s gonna be the leader of the group of survivors, Spider Man is gonna keep being against his leadership and being “that guy” in the zombie apocalypse, and then he’s gonna die while Paul saves the day
@@cadettrev762 doubtful, if there’s one truly great thing about the MZ writers it’s that they do occasionally throw us a bone, by gruesomely killing characters people didn’t like.
Or something of equal greatness like cyborg warmachine, stark using science and alcoholism to kill zombies, ash Williams working with Doom, or the super team of Kansas where one is a human sunflower and the other is basically sandman but made of several healthy and delicious grains.
Saying "2024 is going to be my year" in October is really highlighting the message at the end. It truly never is too late to grab your destiny
The day Spider-Man enters the public domain will be a day I celebrate like never before.
He was created in the sixties so we’ll probably be dead my guy
@@cantthinkofaname5046 Yup, 2058 or something.
I was born in ‘98 so I’ll be in my 60s when this happens.
As a writer and artist I'll be ready for that day. Even if I have to wait till I'm old and gray!
@@SheoGotSomeCheese Ill take it, its either then or never.
if they wanted a Spider-Man for the new generation, they already have one, Miles. There was no need to piss on Peter's life story and then drop a nuclear bomb of feces, Marvel.
THAT IS WHAT THE MULTIVERSE SHOULD BE A WAY TO FINISH CHARACTERS OFF AND STILL CONTINUE MAKING MONEY
Marvel is too busy fucking him up in the opposite way
sadly, Miles is nowhere near as popular as Peter, even now that Miles has his own movies and a game, Peter's movies and games still sell far, Far more.
New generation here most of us don't know about Miles and some like me don't like Him well Comic version this nigga keep getting power up for no reason and Pete like normal life is a Bitch for Him
@@GuyParson so here's what they are going to do: for the love of god, give Peter finally a good life and an ending, and move on to a Peter from another universe, essentially do a reboot but without rebooting anything at all, you will only jump to another universe, the Peter 1 saga has achieved the end, now we see the life of Peter 2.
It's as simple as that, no more suffering and another Peter to a new generation of kids and teens to grow and evolve with him, not evolve past him like is happening now.
Absolutely insane to me that Marvel has a legacy character in Miles Morales that is almost as popular, if not MORE popular with young audiences than Peter Parker, yet Marvel insists that it’s Peter that they need to keep young and relatable for younger audiences? It’s about time that Marvel just admits that it’s time for Peter to just retire with MJ and pass the mantle over to Miles for good.
Allow me to quote Mephisto, while explaining his terms to MJ for him to save aunt May:
"Let's say this...Enjoy the world as it is for as long as you can. For you will only have it for one more day. *You will not consciously remember this bargain, or this moment, or the life you lived to this point. But there will be a very small part of your soul that will remember, that will know what you lost. And my joy will be in listening to that part of your soul screaming throughout eternity.* You have until midnight tomorrow to say yes."
That "part of your soul" are the readers. People at Marvel are messing with our minds because that's what they like to do. If they wanted to give Peter some joy they'd have given it to him by now, after so many years. There's can be no other explanation.
Damn.
Yep, and part of both MJ and Peter's souls would no doubt be screaming as well for all of this happening. I really wish they didn't have to do that. But sadly, we have no choice but to endure this travesty. Maybe one day the two of them will say enough of this and get back together. I'll keep enduring it though. No matter how long it takes. Maybe I'll be dead of old age before they are back together, but I suppose my spirit would not simply rest until they are. I'd like to think it at least, but I wouldn't really claim to know otherwise really.
Mephisto finding infinite soul weed glitch for him to smoke forever with all the reader's souls in agony
He really pulled one up over Deadpool with this one , can't get more Meta than this
Not to mention people hate on One More Day storyline but not him cause he's the Devil so no smoke with the readers and Marvel editors won't let that story change like a cannon event at any cost
Mephisto is the only one winning(other than comic sales) and by a landslide
what a monster mephisto is
I want to see the Spider-Man convinces Paul to kill himself arc
“Your life is as valuable as a summer aunt”
Where's the Symbiote when Peter actually needs it lol?
damn paul i gotta be honest with you
i battled with myself - literally and my hero friends when super hero act was passed
i was almost killed by ironman himself because i disagreed with him
but against all odds i pulled through...
but in your situation.... damn man there's no way to sugarcoat it
if i was in your place i wouldn't be capable of going on
i don't know how you do it man
to be in your situation i would swing to the top of empire state and web my arms to my body and just jump
there's literally no hope for you man
>good ending
Call it The Low Tier God Arc
Remember that one guy Thanos desided to fuck with in particular for no good reason for his entire life?
He should switch to Paul.
I can't believe Marvel Comics literally stole from Peter to give to Paul.
omfg lmfao
Its so telling that editorial's main reason for keeping peter and Mj apart is marketability not because they genuinely think it makes for a good story.
Personally I think people who think in those terms when it comes to art should be kept as far away from it as possible
That's the worst part, it's the opposite. Spider-Man editorial have been defending their position on breaking up Peter & MJ for almost *20 years* now despite interest in the books dropping since then and having not recovered.
I am convinced Paul is a "self-insert" of one of the Marvel writers 😂
More like the entire editorial at this point, and why I cut-off Marvel comics after 2007. They just don't have their shit together.
@@Blur4strikethey still have a few good comics here and there but yeah
Wells got divorced before this run started so there’s a clue on where Paul came from.
Considering he looks like the main writer…
Part 4 really resonated with me tbh. My partner of 6 years and I broke up a couple of months ago after being together for 6 years.
These have been some of the most difficult months of my life. I lost all my "friends" and also realized they were more so her friends than mine, but that's besides the point.
Recently, I started going to therapy and realized that instead of feeling sorry for myself and drowning myself in nostalgia and what could've been, I HAVE to move on.
I still care for her a lot even though we don't talk anymore, but I've been focusing on myself more. I scored a new job, and I started doing new stuff and pursuing new hobbies and whatnot.
Awesome video btw! Not really much of a Spidy fan, but I've been keeping up what the whole "Paul drama," and this was really good.
Ultimates giving a Spidey that literally has "Your past was stolen, do you want it back" come up I 100% can see appealing to those against Paulinization.
The wild thing is that it started as weird and maybe a little frustrating for some, kinda just whatever for me. And then obviously my god it snowballs
@BestgirlJordanfish Who could foresee the catastrophe back then.... I doubt that the editorial even has the fractions of ideas how much the readers will be their greatest and steadfast antagonist.
Same i was like "alright, let's see what happens" to "someone please god kill me into another continuity".
Like spiderman reign has that very famous awful MJ subplot but this one just went on for sooooo much longer over so much more ink that it's worse imo.
i began to feel genuine dread for Paul every issue because I knew he'd be there, he didn't need to shock me or stun me with wild plot developments. He just needed to wait. He was inevitable, a sweater-clad force of cuckoldry and entropy.
Jokes aside though, geniunley, really not a fan. So glad that's over and behind us honestly
Glad to see you back in full, here to give me another rollercoaster of emotions surrounding characters I don't really know in comic books I've never read. I have no idea why this is so entertaining and enjoyable for me despite that, but I guess you create videos that are just so good anyone can watch and appreciate them. Usually I play videos this long in the background, but the way you explain everything is so captivating, so I don't want to lose track. Top tier video and the best part was when you said there'd be more.
30:25 Thanks, I've been saying for years that MJ is written just like Gwen Stacy in the Zeb Wells comics but no one would take me seriously.
Thank you.
@@mayotango1317 Gwen Stacy sucks
Seriously you’re right! I’ve had to correct casuals for years about how Black Cat and Gwen were NOT good or stable people and that Mary Jane was pretty much the only girl who treated Peter decently and now Zeb in all his infinite wisdom decides to character assassinate her into the very thing she was the opposite of.
Not only that, Sam Reimi's MJ also behaves like Gwen at times. As much as I love the movies, they did irreparable damage to Mary Jane's image in the public's mind
Current 616 Spider-Man Run truly made appreciate how underground is Moon Knight to the point of giving Jed Mackay & Alessandro Capuccio's what none 616 Spider-Man writer & artist has had for the past 20 years:
*CREATIVE FREEDOM*
yeah, creative freedom and not financial freedom
cuz the sales are gonna plummet 🤣
Same with Miles.
Eh. Moon Knight's not a great example. The run is well-written don't get me wrong, and it's *relatively* in a more niche corner of the MU, but he's absolutely suffering from a form of editorial interference.
Marvel's trying to push him more thanks to the terrible MCU show, and one of the ways that shows through in the newest comics is how all ambiguity is abandoned: all the magic and fantastical nonsense Moon Knight interacts with is completely and totally real, as opposed to older comic runs, where there was always room for interpretation - it could be real magic, or it could all just be manifestations of MK's wartime and childhood traumas and paranoia affecting his already-damaged mental state.
Marvel seems to believe that turning Moon Knight into just "another magic dude but he's Egyptian/Moon themed I guess" is the path to making him marketable. Jed just happened to form a good story inside this status quo.
Pretty sure freaking sorcerer supreme doctor strange straight up said "konshu is real" on the old comics (Wich bring a whole can of worms of not helping Marc whit him, but that's apart) @@fanb1536
@@fanb1536I think the real ambiguity regarding the supernatural was only possible in the original run, where it was uncertain if Khonshu was real, if Marc truly resurrected, and if Marc literally had multiple personalities. Those questions were answered after the original volume. Although other writers have found ways of replicating it, like the Lemire run always being unclear on what’s real and what’s in Marc’s head to the very end.
Was so hyped to start collecting Spider-Man after rediscovering comics in the Pandemic. Fast-Forward a few years and now I have an almost completed run of the crossover-diluted Paul chronicles and I just want my money back.
I don't hate Paul. Paul is nothing, he's an empty shell created to serve a singular purpose.
I hate the Marvel editorial. The Marvel editorial has been leading Spider-Man fans on and manipulating them for years all just to make money. They deserve to lose their jobs with no hope of ever getting into the comics industry again.
This guy, he's absolutely right.
Marvel has helped spider-man fans get the craziest edging streak when it comes to MJ and Pete lmao
Paul is just the avatar of editorial. People are right to hate him, at least in part.
An Insert Character if u will@@jackrogers5712
I actually made a Tumblr post that fixed Paul as a character and made him somewhat likable. You know, with a proper arc and s***.
Paul's basically less a character and more a symbol of the editors basically it's sounding like...
Joe Q?
He's an avatar.
@@jackrogers5712 Last Air Bender or Blue?
@@youtubeuniversity3638the indian
he is Mephisto
This is the only fandom that’s more angry at a guy named Paul than American Psycho.
10:51 hated? I don't think past tense would ever apply to this, people will forever hate paul. Not a single soul unironically likes paul, if someone does I'd assume they're a homunculus without a soul
Guess now we know that Marvel's run by soulless homunculi.
Cant imagine someone liking someone who has done nothing wrong simply because you hate them for no reason. Sounds like you are the one with no soul
@@serenityq26 He literally got his entire world killed because he wanted to profit from his dad's "math" magic. Is that doing nothing wrong?
@@serenityq26 "haven't done anything wrong."
LMAAAAAO.
@@serenityq26deffo one of the only Paul fans
I feel so sorry for Mis.Marvel, if it wasn’t for Paul she would’ve lived.😔🐱
Dont worry she did immediately get better
@@MrRurounismcyeah so she could be shoved to the X-Men for brand synergy
Honestly when it comes to Marvel legacy characters, she’s one of my favorites.
The current run has been so bad, but I did genuinely laugh my ass off at that bit when Pete goes to steal from the FF and Ben walks in just as he's about to.
Jonathan Hickman: Peter and MJ are happily married, and have two children, and they’re all a happy family
Zeb, on his bullshit again: You know what this story needs? Needs more Paul.
Zeb self inserted himself and we’re supposed to be happy
It's quite telling about what Marvel editorial thinks about their readers when their idea of keeping spider man "relatable" is to make him lonely and miserable.
Paul may just be one of, if not the most hated character of all spiderman's comic continuities. The hatred for him runs so deep, even when he isnt being a constant blight on the plot and we see Peter get over the fact that essentially because of him he's all alone, you still cant quell the dislike for him. You can never like Paul, at best you can tolerate him
This is the equivalent of training your star athlete with the top of the line tech, coaching, and nutrition and win in turn they always wins gold medals and above, only to replace it all with their entire diet being solely laxative products and with no water, training, or coaching.
Sure, some people are gonna attend to point and laugh at the champion gold medalist crapping their pants for the 1st few times, but they've been living off pure laxatives for 4 years now, and the bit has been long overdue to be over after the 1st few times, yet it's still happening and now mostly everyone gave up on whatever.
Its impressive they haven't died of dehydration yet.
There is so much wrong with Paul as character, what he represents, feeling like a self-insert, and just beening needlessly "good" at everything. Also giving MJ an Omnitrix for super powers didnt help
He's hideous in everything he does. A Gary Stu, a nobody, a literal stain on Stan Lee's prized character.
Stopped reading Amazing Spider-man about a year ago because of the Paul business. It nearly made me swear off comics altogether, and I'm only just coming back to it with the new ultimate universe. Fantastic video but now I'm pissed off again that it happened.
Correction. It wasn't certain higher-ups that thought Peter had to be sad and living a shit life. It was one single higher-up named Joe Quesada.
Nope a lot more higher ups agreed with him and still agree with him and the writer was perfectly fine with the decision, he just had some annoyances with the execution (and not the deal with the devil part, keep that in mind). Quesada knows a good part of being the editor is taking the blame for everything that goes wrong and is perfectly fine doing so to keep others out of the crossfire.
@@spectacleHD There's a difference between agreeing with somebody and being the originator of the idea.
Quesada was not just an editor, he was the EIC at the time. He was and still is openly disdainful of their marriage. Additionally, during and after the publication of the story it became known that he was the prime contributor to the story. It was an idea he wanted to do.
Yes, others were ok with doing it but the source is Quesada. Without him OMD doesn't happen.
I want to believe 6160 Peter saw Paul and all the One More Day stuff in the file and thought “Wow…. Wouldn’t that happen to me though” before letting the spider bite him
6160 Peter is built different
"Nah I'd win"
Honestly, at this point, I think they should make Chat from Marvel Adventures canon to 616 and have her be Peter's love interest going forward. Despite being from a comic aimed at kids, she's actually very well-written and serves as a perfect antidote to modern portrayals of MJ.
49:29 we literally only has 3 months left of this year
😭😭😭
blud's not a believer
Fr
I love ultimate x-men and Spider-man. They are just wild good times. Seeing Jameson being this family friend to the Parker’s but still having that Jameson bluster we all love is great, giving peter’s son a copy of his own book he self published along with a pep talk about hard work and doing it yourself was a very sweet moment. I never expected to see Jameson get this oddly wholesome vibe in a comic since he almost cosmically hates spider-man, but him being so indifferent to spider-man cause he has better things to worry about makes me appreciate how different yet similar he is to the old Jameson.
That is just one part of this run I love there is a lot to appreciate in this book.
The thing is, nobody wants to read a comic book and be reminder about the relatable parts of life that make us miserable. It feels like marvel is punishing us for their decisions to keep peter in a constant loop.
The reason why everyone hates Paul so much is because of what he stood for. For years fans wanted Peter and MJ to get back together and it seemed like they were about to finally get married again. But then Zeb Wells, Marvel, Disney, pulled this and broke the two up and undid everything that people have been waiting all these years for. Not only that but they did it in the most B***S*** way possible. They suddenly had MJ get married to some random guy and have kids with him and told how that happened in a random story that plot felt out of nowhere. That was only the start as Peter's life started to go down hill fast as Marvel believes that Spiderman can't have a happy life because that somehow makes him unrelatable to readers. All in all, Spiderman is the perfect example on how people take advantage of the icons of the past and twist them into anything that could sell for a lot of money.
I hate how incompetent they made Peter appear at the start of Well’s run.
I like Tombstone and all but Peter literally beat Carnage/Norman to a pulp in the last run without using any symbiote weaknesses, I’m supposed to believe he’d beg for his life?
edit: Also glad you’re feeling better to release this video Alex
I don’t even read comics much, but I hate Paul with such blinding rage I never want to think of anything Zeb Wells makes again
Modern Spider-Man is Peter desperately wanting to finally end it all but forces beyond his reality won't allow it, and they take the shape of Paul
Honestly I think we're through the thick of it with Paul. The initial shock is over. Everybody knows him, everybody hates him, Editorial got the reaction they wanted and the jokes are mostly over. Now with the positive receptions to the "adult" Peter with Ultimate and Spiderverse I'm now sure Marvel is aware of that there is an audience that wants to see MJ and Peter grow up with a much more stable mellow tone rather than the constant up and down that is Spider man is constantly forced to go through.
Given how recently the editors made it very clear that they have zero intention of bringing Peter and MJ back together, I doubt they learned a damned thing.
As long as Ultimate stays as a side run we are.... Pretty safe? We can expect some issues with the relationship later on(as is usual in stories) but I don't think they will go the same route as the Amazing run because of how people hated it so much that they cheered for the "One Bad Day" event they wrote for spiderman
If there is one thing I know about marvel editorial it is this: They. NEVER. Learn.
the ultimate comic, spiderverse, the video games. There are so many versions of peter that is with mj and also happy, and those media sell insanely well. But it still doesn't change the comics because the editors want you to be mad, it's the only way they get attention on the 616 comics anymore
I'm still pretty convinced that Marvel should have kept Ben around more after Maximum Clonage so they could have the single swinging Spider-Man and Peter & MJ could grow and have a family. Hell, Peter could have also set up a tech company and bankrolled Ben as a full-time Spiderman.
They want to push miles these days and I feel like the easiest, simplest and most obvious way to do that would bet to just let Peter get on with his life already. Let Peter move naturally into the role of the older mentor with his own family who's been through it all, while Miles fills the gap of the younger inexperienced hero who struggles with rent. Why in gods green earth is Peter Parker still having rent issues? Let the man move on already.
I feel like a lot of people would really enjoy that story.
Because that's literally what Spider-verse did.