joe quassada sent me a marvel care package because my mom worked on his teeth (she is a surgical assistant) I don’t think he’s a bad guy just a bad story teller
oh for sure, Quesada is also responsible for some of my favourite storylines. As I said in this video, he clearly has a love for the character. I do actually regret throwing a ton of shade towards him in my earlier videos, and hope my analysis here doesn't come off as an attack, just a critique
"Peter sacrifices his marriage with MJ to the devil so he can save Aunt May's life" is one of those plots where just saying it out loud makes it obvious that it's bad but articulating on why it's bad is hard. You articulate it very well.
I mean, it could have worked had it been a "What If" One Shot, not something to set the standards of the story going forward but just a "for fun" exploration of "what if things played out like that" ? I think most of the issues with One More Day don't stem from the story itself but rather the fact it has become the canon, had it been a self contained story I don't think it would have caused much stir
If the deal was that Mephisto would erase one day of Peter's choice, in exchange for one day of Mephisto's choice, then it would have been somewhat better IMO, with Mephisto's role as a manipulator being in full swing. The only detail he'd give Peter being that it must be "one of equal or greater importance" And so, Mephisto erases the day Aunt May was shot, but also erases the day Peter proposed to MJ, completely altering the timeline. And the story is about Peter trying to find a way to make Mephisto go back on the deal, potentially finding a loophole in the wording of the deal. Granted it's a bit of a Shrek Forever After situation, but it's better than the reasoning we got
It'll never not be insane to me that Batman has and has had a kid for over a decade now yet Marvel still is too afraid to let Spider-Man get married again
Never mind Batman, Harry Osborn has had a son since the 1980s who has aged like 10 years. If that doesn't age all the characters I don't know what does.
@Baki Sadly, that's not really the case. Comics have always regressed their characters back to their "basic versions" one way or another. Wally isn't growing up. He just straight up doesn't matter, because Barry Allen keeps stealing the spotlight. Hell, none of the Flashes grow up, they barely count as characters, they just exist to reboot the DC Universe. Grayson? He was about to get married to Starfire in the original Teen Titans run, but got One More Day'd. Then the exact same thing happened with Batgirl. Them he hooked up with another girl, bit that didn't work out, then he got amnesia. Nightwing will never really progress beyond "lame Batman ripoff, eye candy for girls version". Superman... yeah, he's faring better. Only downside is that his son aged up rapidly off screen. Batman? All he does is chase Joker. His biggest villain now is Joker in a Batman costume. He was about to get married to Catwoman, and he got One More Day'd by his own father. Who worked with BANE.
I’m just glad that even casual Spidey fans and people who are somewhat familiar with the comics are gradually understanding that Marvel’s attempts at maintaining the character’s “archetype” has done more damage than good, and the theme of power and responsibility has been long forgotten.
@@hugoalvarez8307 Thank you. To be honest I didn’t expect my video on Spider-Man to get that big. I honestly thought one of my attempts at making a Godzilla video would gain as much traction. But I’ve being going with the flow and have some more Spidey videos planned.
The problem isn't even his archetype. He doesn't have to be made a middle aged man with kids in the present day in order to feel like he's growing as a person (though the 35-38 year old married Peter with kids in the new Ultimate Spider-Man seems very well received). Before he was forced to do OMD, JMS himself had the perfect status quo that felt like a natural progression and yet familiar without making him feel any older than Marvel wanted him (somewhere between 25-30 or bstween 27-32 like he is now). He was still married, but he became a part time science teacher at his old high school, formally joined the New Avengers after years as a loner (who just so happened to cross paths with and work everyone under the sun in random adventures), and even moved himself and his family into Avengers Tower (until Civil War blew all that up way too soon). Even Dan Slott's decision to make Peter a research scientist at Horizon Labs was a really good idea. In spite of some blunders like Sins Past, Spider-Man was already in the ideal place before OMD got forced. Another thing they could do is something that they're finally starting to do after far too long in the new Spider-Men comic, make him a formally make him an older friend and mentor to Miles Morales. There are ways he can show that he's evolving as a person without overly aging him, and even on the subject of having a family, all that would be absolutely necessary (if they chose to go this route) is to formally establish Mayday (or whoever, be it her, some other kid, or multiple) are a future established as something that will absolutely happen at some undetermined point in the future. In real time, MJ could not give birth to kids for another 50 years for all it really matters, so long as it's established that Peter and MJ's life is going somewhere, regardless of the path or how long it might take to get there.
What really annoys me is that while Peter is stuck in high school, every other Marvel hero gets to grow up. It’s insane that Jessica Jones once had a crush on him, and she has settled down with Luke Cage. Soon we gonna see characters like Ms Marvel, and Miles Morales grow and have families yet, Peter will still be stuck in limbo
Gwen and Miles get together and say: Hey...Remember that Parker guy? Yeah...dude needs a GF...why won't he date that MJ Chick? I bet they'd be a lovely 💑 couple!
I remember reading something along the lines of "imagine if aunt may found out peter sold his family and future away in order to save her" And it's stuck with me ever since.
*[Spoilers for the Insomniac game]* May is dying and Peter has the only antidote to her affliction but most of the city is sick as well and reverse engineering it will take hours or even a day or two. She very heavily implies to Peter that letting her go is the right decision and after he fights the urge to use the antidote on her he concedes that everyone else's lives matter more. If he used it on her I'd imagine she'd practically disown him for dooming many others to death and dishonoring Ben's memory.
Knowing their unmarried Peter agenda, they’d probably perform some mental gymnastics in character writing and have Aunt May somehow approve so that they would have less reasons to undo One More Day.
Insomniac took a big shit on this and it's one of the litany of reasons I love their take on Spider-Man. Peter sacrificed the most important thing in his life to save everyone else despite the pain it caused him. That's the responsibility I expect from a true Spider-Man.
@@waseem__600 That is one of the few things in the game that irk me. I especially hate how she withholds information on terrorists planning to do something at grand central station. They're terrorists that bombed City Hall, they're not gonna hold a peaceful protest in a densely populated landmark location. That said I did like the arc she had with Peter, even if some of it was forced.
@@Dalton_Boardman2000 Eh She always gets in dangerous situations that could get her killed when Peter saves her she gets pissed and the game is telling us that MJ is in the right💀
@@waseem__600 I think it made sense but the problem is we don't see context. We're told that this was an issue in their relationship prior. That Peter was overbearing in protecting her and she wants to do her own things and had chosen to go into a career that is risky. But we're introduced to their relation after all this. So it's not surprising most people will be on Spidey's side immediately bc we're playing as him and only seen him in a positive portrayal. So why I think why MJ bothered people was exactly that, told not shown. So if you weren't really paying attention it just feels like she is being high maintenance. But I think she had a point and I think it worked, it just required players to pick up on some things they may miss. (Also bc her gameplay was so boring and annoying. It really did not need to be included).
I've always said: If Peter had asked Doctor Doom, May would be fine. Or better. "Why should I help you? And it's just a bullet wound, this is beneath me." "Yeah, I mean, Reed couldn't either." "You son of a bitch, I'm in. Your payment is mocking Richards for this every time you see him." Some time later: "Ok, so Mephisto is involved. So I get to shit on Richards AND Mephisto today. Hey Peter, your aunt's about to become immortal!"
Y'know what really sucks? PETER DID ASK HIM. When Dr. Strange did that fuckin astral projection that let Peter ask fuggin everyone, Dr. Doom was part of that! AND DR. DOOM APPARENTLY EITHER REFUSED OR COULDN'T FIX A BULLET WOUND EITHER. VICTOR VON DOOM. THE MOTHERFUCKER WHO WOULD FIND A WAY JUST BECAUSE REED COULDN'T!
Johnny Blaze: "You shouldn't make a deal with the Devil, Parker, no matter how tempting it may seem. I did it once, and look where it got me." Peter: "You mean I can become a flaming skeleton and ride motorcycles too? Oh man, that's awesome! Where do I sign up?" Johnny: "....I feel like you're learning the wrong things from this conversation."
Nick Spencer's Spider-Man run will go down in history as the comic book industry equivalent of Lucy letting Charlie Brown run all the way across the field and then pulling the football up when he was an inch away from a field goal
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 I swear if they had given him like 10 more issues he would have fixed it. But nope they had to rush the Beyond event so that we could get to issue 900 but with Wells ruining the title no one really cares right now
@@henricusaquae867 At least they let him retcon Sins Past, as a consolation prize. Though, personally, I thought even that was too cluttered and rushed to be satisfying.
We need like a Spider-Man: Undone storyline where a new writer comes in and just makes the story a big middle finger to all the continuity changes, instead changing their continuity to allow the character to progress. "Can't have enough drama with older, married Peter Parker." Mr. Quesada clearly hasn't watched much drama. Even ignoring obvious spouse stuff, being a father, teacher (or whatever), neighbor, and older superhero can provide an infinite amount of drama, limited only by the imagination of the writer(s). Saying that there couldn't or wouldn't be enough is a fallacy.
I mean, Superman who has been around since the late 30's is a father and that only made him that much more relatable than he already was. Batman too, Quesada's train of thought died with The Brave and The Bold from Grant Morrison and with Jon Kent, meanwhile Spider-man is stuck in a Flash type of deal where neither Barry or Wally can have their twins yet.
Also, if they want younger Spider-Man stories: Miles Morales is doing great. Ben Reilly could have been good too. Hell, keep Peter and May together and they could have a Spider-Kid. Spider-Man is a title, Peter Parker is a name. They don't Have to be linked. It's hard to do a good, respectful passing of the torch, but it's far from impossible. Batman Beyond did it pretty damn fantastically too.
@Ivan Agustin Ortiz Wally has had his kids back for years now. And Barry's kids were born in his past, grew up in the future while he was dead, and died as heroes.
Have a spider-man story focused on Peter choosing to let someone else take on the mantle of Spider-Man, and have him focus on living a family life, but still taking responsibility by being a sort-of "guy in the chair" for the Spidey who takes on the mantle full time (I say either Miles Morales or Ben Reilly, though Miles would work better for the role imo).
Peter saying he loves Mary Jane like a sister when he kissed her, formed a romantic relationship with her, had s3x, and even got her pregnant (even if that last one isn't canon now) is going to be one of the most infamous moments in recent Marvel history.
If you didn’t read the comic then let me explain he didn’t say that cause he meant it he was saying a list of different things he could to disassociate Peter from mj romantically most of which he never meant and even Felicia knows that I don’t see how Peter fumbling trying to over compensate and getting called out for it is gonna be infamous but we shall see
@@Ace-0f-Spadez THIS. I don't get how people don't see that he's lying to himself. black cat even calls him out for it IN THE SAME PANEL. this current run has a lot of flaws but "peter saying he loved MJ like a sister" is not one of them because its not true. he was put in a situation and tried to quickly come up with a lie.
I more saw Betty as a high school crush than a "real" love lol. I think he wanted to marry her at some point but I took that as him being desperate and it was the 60s
I think it's still accurate. Betty wasn't even Peter's first crush. It was her and Liz Allan (spelling). Love and infatuation aren't the same thing, and besides, their relationship very clearly developed into a mutual platonic friendship that sometimes borders on a brother-sister dynamic later on. Gwen may not have heen the first, but she was his first serious relationship.
Alex, I recently lost my brother this month after 16 years of bonding with him. and god, I just want to let you know you are absolutely amazing with words. I know this is a video about Spiderman, but the ideas that you convey between Spiderman and the loss of Gwen, or Spiderman's uncle are painfully accurate to how losing a loved one feels. I love how much time you take to get your facts straight and go in-depth with these analysis videos. Honestly, just listening to these has helped me a lot in a sense. I know it's quite an odd comparison but thank you, honestly. I can't wait to see more videos in the future.
I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. Nothing will ever heal that, but do keep seeking out stories and those who are wise enough to tease out the truth in them. The best ones allow us to exercise our most painful emotions to build resilience and gratitude. They offer us some gentle guidance through our darkest thoughts and feelings, and they let us know that we're not alone. You say that the stories of Peter losing Gwen and Ben are an odd comparison, but they're not. Authors wrote the experiences of grief into some of those stories, and whether or not it was theirs, it came from somewhere. Those stories teach us what Uncle Ben pointed out. That's the human experience. We'll all deal with it. So be kind to yourself, be kind to others, and let's all just navigate through this morass as best as we can. I wish you the best.
@@PedricCuf Thank you so much for the kind words, Pedric. Things have been really tough lately, although they've been getting better. I appropriate the thoughts
Also, Peter's marriage to MJ was the best relationship Peter has ever had in the comics and will never be topped. OMD even establishes them as a true love so pure it is beyond what Mephisto has seen in thousands of years. The narrative of Spider-Man is MJ is "the one". This undermines the soap opera Quesada wanted since fans know Peter and MJ belong together and other love interests are a distraction. It's why we see Marvel going through such lengths to sabotage Peter and MJ every time they want to change up love interests to try to sell Peter with another woman.
Your segment with Aunt May’s original death and it’s subsequent rewrite really struck home with why I got bored with comics. It’s so frustrating seeing characters you like be stuck in limbo forever. Forced to never to have a satisfying ending and reliving the same retreads of older stories. I know Marvel and other comic book companies can’t afford to retire characters like Spider-Man, Batman, Captain America, the X-men, and Judge Dredd but I really just want some closure for these characters.
That’s why I’m my opinion the Spider-Man run ends at issue 400 where aunt may passed away the first time. It’s a bitter sweet ending with aunt may passing away and Peter and MJ having the rest of their lives together with the unknown ahead.
@@Pero-zl4jp Spider-Man's run ended in a What If...? comic. The first appearance of May Parker's Spider-Girl. Also...up until Norman Osborn returned, Spider-Man comics read like a manga. Everyone who died stayed dead, Peter got older, everyone else also advanced. Then the clone saga happened and then the usual comic related BS that was infecting other comics started happening to Peter's stories as well.
It really upsets me how MJ just got together with some other guy and chose to have kids with him when there are COUNTLESS instances where she and Peter got together and were perfectly happy. THEY’RE LITERALLY PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER, LET THEM BE HAPPY OML
Spider-Man is with MJ in games, movies, and cartoons. I ask anyone whose dating Spider-Man and they say MJ. She is Marvel's Lois Lane. So why is the only place they're not together is in the damn comics?!
I actually don't mind this. Comics and Main stream do not have to be aligned all the time. If the writers choose to do so then that is all good, but I would never force them. I think the issue (from an outsider perspective that is into other media more than comics), is that they never pair him with anyone just for him to suffer. Like bring back Gwen and he dates and marries her? Nope. Let him be with MJ his second love of his life? Nope. Can't let that happen. Fine Felicia even though she doesn't love Peter. Nope. Silk, someone that can appreciate both? Nope. Well damn guess he's gonna die alone for no damn reason. I mean a chracter doesn't have to be in a relationship, but since we got so many version of him in one AND he has had a kid with MJ this is ass.
Legit, Superman and Lois have been married for years, they have a son and have recently just adopted two more kids. Nobody’s reading his comics praying for a return to the 70’s or early 80’s where he was Lois’ coworker and reporter rival.
I remember people questioning No Way Home for using the One More Day concept, but in the end, they made a change that makes the story works: there was urgency behind Peter's decision. The only way to stop the multiverse from colliding with the MCU was for everyone to forget who Peter was. They even let Aunt May stay dead.
The only reason people dont care that much about the movie is because those versions of the supporting cast are awful. There's a general apathy for them. It isnt comparable.
Except there were other options for him to take, he just didn't think of them. Said options were: 1. Tell Dr Strange to make everyone forget about Mysterio and everything he said. 2. Tell him to make everyone forget Spider-Man, so that no one can forget Peter Parker and he can make his debut as Spider-Man again. And 3. Tell him to make everyone forget the news report and video, as opposed to making them forget Spider-Man himself.
It really does suck that there is such a massive incentive to stop a character from growing up too much and instead trap them at a stage that is more profitable. At least some writers are still willing to allow characters to grown and form actual relationships and have families, and those stories are some of my favorites.
I don't even know if you can confidently say it's more profitable. One of the best selling and most beloved Spider-Man films was partially about a version of Peter that was old and jaded stepping into the father role. It's not about chasing trends. It's not even about taking risks. It's about dogma.
@@janembagaming668 I assumed the consistency granted would be more profitable long term even if it'll never be a best seller anymore. A consistent casual audience instead of trying new things and hoping people love it. I don't really get what you mean by dogma, but that might just be becuase my thoughts here are mainly surface level and I don't know enough understand why it is.
Marvel editorial has really dug their heels into the "Let's keep Peter Parker a perpetual loser" idea. It's not even a case of him being a hard-luck everyman, he just feels like a damn manchild these days in the Wells run While the Big Time arc was during the oft derided Dan Slott years (some readers hate him, I personally think his stuff was okay up until 2015) it was a natural step in Peter's character. Letting him work as a scientist while also being on The Avengers proper. If we have to retain the dumb idea of spider-man being eternally single, at least let him feel like an adult lol. I haven't purchased an issue since the start of Wells' tenure (Time jump? Pete and MJ broken up again? Pass) I just feels like it's always a step or two back for spider-man, which is annoying as hell when you're a lifelong fan who'd been collecting new issues of ASM since middle school lol
@@PopeMical I can see your point here but I still feel that incredibly safe writing decisions are ultimately not going to work long term especially considering comic sales are on the down trend these days. When I say dogma, I'm trying to say (albeit a bit melodramatically) that I feel that Marvel editorial has a strong idea of what Spider-Man "should" be, and doesn't want to stray from that in any real sense. That'd be totally fine if this was a different medium. But Spider-Man is a long running character whose story is and will span over decades of time. Within reason, you have to let the character change and do new things if you want to keep things from going stale over these incredibly long spans of time.
Yeah especially when the media adaptation versions are doing much better in growing Spidey as a character (hence why so many of this generations favourite versions of Spidey aren't from the comics).
@@v10fc92 exactly, he is doing great in animated spider-verse, mcu and games. hopefully with freshman year we get a good animated tv series too, but i really wish diseny and sony work together to bring back spectacular spider-man
They think making his life a fuck show that it'll somehow resonate more with the audience. Like fuck man sometimes we wanna see characters catch a break and be happy.
It's interesting how two modern adaptations (The Insomniac game and No Way Home) adapt One More Day to some extent but with the caveat that it recontextualized elements that would make sense for the character 1. Having Peter choose saving NY or saving May 2. The one doing the mindwiping spell being Dr. Strange and being done to avoid a bigger crisis beyond to just himself.
No Way Home successfully reset Peter into the position they wanted him to be in, and did it without having to completely ignore everything the character stood for. They even used it to teach him the lesson of responsibility.
OMD is horror story from a different point of view. A person so unwilling to lose control of mortality that he goes against everything he loves, takes away everyone else's free will, literally says no to God (One above all met him in park) and then makes the deal with the devil so he can remain a child forever.
If you wanna see a good continuation of the original spiderman who's married to mj and has a kid I'd recommend reading the spidergirl series, it takes place about 20 years after the end of the clone saga where Peter has been retired from being spiderman and instead works as a lead detective for a local police department while raising his teenage daughter who's currently in high-school and his toddler son. His daughter soon starts to develop spider powers as she enters high-school and learns the truth about her father's past and decides to continue his legacy by becoming spidergirl. Peter naturally is completely against that idea at first when he finds out about her plans but soon realizes that he instead of trying to stop her which he knows he can't, he decides to mentor and teach her the proper way to be a superhero so he can keep an eye on her to help protect her and make sure she doesn't make the same mistakes he did. He then loans her Ben Reillys old spider man suit and web shooters and that's how the series starts. This eventually ends with Peter's death as he sacrifices himself fighting morlun to protect his children during the middle of the spider verse storyline. Overall that's what I consider to be the final cannon chapter of the original spiderman run, him teaching and raising his kids after living a full life and having had a long and happy marriage with Mary jane.
@@v10fc92 Well, that too. If anything it just solidified his choice to hang up the webs and not be Spidey. Granted it's not Morlun this version of Peter dies fighting but rather his brother. But overall aside from that thing, which even some of the ones who created/worked on Spider-Girl said they didn't really view this version of her and her universe as the same one from the comics they worked on. And from what I understand he is brought back eventually in a later Spider-Verse event thing, involves a version of Max Dillon aka Electro who's actually rather smart teaming up with/using various other versions of him. Honestly it sound weird but it's true. Has a whole thing where a version of Uncle Ben who was Spider-Man of his Earth sacrifices his life to save the multiverse. And apparently brings back Spider-Girl's dad as well. So, yeah all that happened. I'd be happy to see Mayday and her world brought back, at least when there is a good chance of her being given a writer who actually cares about her world and those within it and doesn't screw things up. It's a fun little thing that includes things like having the Venom symbiote first break out and try to use Peter to kill his Daughter, only to eventually come back and help her with Normie Osborn, and towards the very end where Norman Osborn possesses Peter's mind (haven't read that story myself, but I bet it's a blast) even has the symbiote bond with her for a brief time to give her some much needed strength to get out of a tough situation, and ends up giving up it's own life to save Normie Osborn (who if you need a refresher is Harry's son). Kind of funny that, the symbiote has a sort of redemption story in a 'spin-off verse' that was written before the same thought was given mostly to the original host in the 'main verse'.
I’ll keep saying this: Spider-Man’s true ending is happy birthday. Peter goes through his past and finds his reason to keep on going after all of his adventures then basically leads the marvel superheroes to save the day and he gets to finally say goodbye to Uncle Ben. He also is truly happy. What more could you ask from a conclusion to this character?
This is a amazing point, I just wished Happy birthday came after Civil War/Back In Black. I just love those stories SO much and would be a dream come true to have a amazing conclusion like Happy Birthday to close things for his character.
Actually the true ending for me is sensational spider man vol 2 annual 1 where Pete and MJ move forward despite everything that's happened to them after civil war....
I think Linkara got it right when he reviewed this. Two things should've changed to improve the story. First, Mary Jane should've been shot, thus justifying why Mephisto offered the deal for the marriage to end and not let Peter choose between his aunt and wife. Second, Peter should have kept the memories of his old life to burden him instead of forgetting it all, which pushes him to try and hold true to his values as Spider-Man. That would make a lot of the stuff in the comic feel more realistic and tragic. But sometimes we overlook the simple stuff.
I think the "problem" with that from Marvel's perpective is that it would create the expectation of Peter and MJ getting back together at some point, since it would just serve as confirmation that MJ truly is the love of Peter's life, and someone that he would literally move mountains for in order to save if he had to. Plus a Peter who did all of this for MJ, and remembered everything about what they used to have, obviously would have no interest in dating anyone else. MJ would essentially be locked in as the true love interest for Spider-Man...Granted, she already is in the eyes of most fans, but Marvel is clearly in denial on that point. Since Peter doesn't remember anything, and willingly sacrificed his marriage for Aunt May, Marvel can pretend that this must mean MJ wasn't really THAT important to Peter's life, and since there are CLEARLY people he loves more, maybe that means MJ wasn't right for him after all and it's totally fine if he just dates other people. It's bullshit, and they had to write the characters completely out of character in order to justify this kind of logic, but Marvel will do anything at this point to keep Peter single and available.
Thats the part that really hit home why this story is bad. The no memory thing is just there so there are no long lasting consequences for Peter as a character no reflection no regrets. Compare that to the Champions where Miles made a deal with Mephisto he remembered doing it and realized that deal inadvertently got a little girl killed a little girl he previously saved. It tears miles apart and the drama is so fucking good why couldn't this story at least have that.
It'll always bother me how Doctor Strange, Reed Richards, etc. could not help Peter. Those people mentioned are literally one of the most powerful heroes in the planet yet they can't revive Aunt May? That was genuinely PIS when feats like Doctor Strange defeating Dormammu time after time, and Reed Richards being the smartest man alive exist.
Reed could cure every disease and end all conflict across the world but he doesn't. At least Doom is a blatant despot who wears his god complex on his sleeve.
I feel like what’s most damning is that DC has kinda proved Quesada wrong in two instances. Clark & Lois, but also Wally & Linda have pretty much become what Peter and MJ should be.
You say that, but they're doing the same thing to my boy Bruce and Selena. Batman is Dc's superstar to Marvel's spider man and he's getting the same treatment. Both companies have no problem with their respective Luigi's getting character development, but the cash cow can't ever change.
Hearing you speak on spideys values in part 2 was honestly pretty inspiring. I’ve been goin through it recently so the messages about moving forward from grief and guilt really hit home. Great vidya as always!
Those quotes from Joe Quesada at 35:04 to 35:40 really bug me, because they were already proven wrong, not just in the mainline series, but in Spider-Girl. You’d be surprised, but it turns out that settling down and becoming a parent actually adds a lot more drama to Peter’s life. He’s constantly having to take care of his teenage daughter, getting into arguments with her over her duties as Spider-Girl, and even becomes the target of several villains as the series goes on. Even when the focus isn’t on Peter, Spider-Girl has plenty of soap opera style drama. You’ve got May trying to balance her hero life and school life, the Parkers constantly debating if May should continue being Spider-Girl. There are even plots twists that reveal new family members out of nowhere, and that’s textbook soap opera material!
Marvel only knows one type of soap opera - breakups and hookups. You know, the stuff they have been doing for Spider-Man's last 15 years with all those love interests like Carlie Cooper, Lian Tang, Silk, Mockingbird, etc that were just so iconic and memorable. You know, the ones your grandchildren will remember as Spider-Man's most important relationships!
this video is actually the reason i decided to stop reading spiderman comics (and most comics in general), i read nick spencer's but i was extremely tired of them just resetting spidey, love him or hate him nick actually looked like he wanted to move the character forward but marvel doesn't want that and so they press the reset on spidey and im just tired of seeing a character grow just to 10-20 issues later be back or even worse than it started. it's a big problem when a characters worse enemies aren't their villains but their writers.
Perfect video on the topic! I agree 100% that was the day Spider-Man died for me and really tone deaf to treat it as some type of celebration on Marvel's part. One thing to add about bringing back the "soap opera" of the 60/70s is that it CANNOT be reproduced in the same way. That was a unique time because Spider-Man did not have a "true love" defined at the time. Gwen was sort of pictured that way, but never close to the level of MJ with the marriage, and she died after only dating Peter a few years. However, after the 20 years of marriage, One More Day, sets up the expectation to the readers that Peter and MJ have an eternal true love and are destined to reunite one day and be together again. If not, evil wins. This completely undermines any attempt to make Peter's single life compelling as it was in the 60/70s. Fans are literally just waiting for Peter and MJ to get back together and every other love interest feels like a temporary setback to that goal. So Joe Quesada did not restore the classic Spider-Man back at all, what he did was setup an extremely frustrating and toxic environment for Spider-Man fandom going forward where what everyone wants can never happen.
The end of Spencer's run also solidifies that Peter and Mj will get back together and have a child that will defeat Mephisto...so readers don't have to care if MJ stays with Paul or if Peter and Felicia work out long-term, that ending is what readers will keep paying to see and everything else is just a short-term distraction
Yep. That's why I call BS on the 'problem' Marvel has been having for the past few decades on Spidey's Growth. It's not that they CAN NOT allow Spidey to grow and evolve. It's that they DECIDE that he can not evolve. In other words, it's not that they can't let him grow, but refuse to let him grow. And how is that a bad thing? For one thing I think letting peter grow up and actually have a life would be a good thing. Get him married with Mary Jane to at least end the constant 'will they? won't they?' that people are getting sick and tired of. And if people are wanting a younger and newer Spider-Man, well guess what, we have Miles Morales! Sure there are many criticisms to be had on how his character has been handled and I have a lot of them myself. But if they want Miles to stand out as his own Spider-Man, having Peter grow up and eventually retire as Spidey while Miles carries it on would be a good way to do so! But most importantly make it feel EARNED! And give a good reason WHY it should be done. Which brings me to my next point. Let him be a Dad! It's not like people don't like dad characters in Media. I mean, God of War anyone? And no, I'm not talking about the version of him from the Norse-era of games going on right now. He was as much of a dad in the Greek Era, for crying out loud part of the REASON why he went on a roaring rampage of revenge is because he wished to avenge his WIFE and DAUGHTER! The fact he has an adoptive son now just makes it clear to anyone who can't read subtext that yeah he is a dad and is good as one. Peter could be an awesome dad as well! The Spider-Girl comics, main character being May 'Mayday' Parker, the daughter of Spider-Man, shows how he is as a dad in a decent enough way. If people can't understand that this can allow for interesting stories even now. I don't know what will...
Spider-Man PS4 somehow did what Marvel somehow couldn’t do and allowed Peter to grow up. Somehow he’s grown past the original comic version. Some fucking how.
Peter B. Parker from ITSV has grown past the original comic version already too while not even being the main fucking character/Spider-Man of the movie 🤣😭
Thank you Alex, you’ve been saying what we’ve all been saying since we heard Marvel saying they were gonna do this saying that it was gonna fix stuff but really saying they don’t care about character growth. SAYING-
As someone who doesn't read the comics, but considers themself a pretty big Spider-Man fan after growing up on numerous movies and animated series, thank you for these videos. I've gotten a much deeper understanding and appreciation of these characters through your work :)
0:30 I’m sorry but… Dr. Doom would’ve figured out a way to save her no matter what. Not because he likes Peter or does it out of nobility, but purely because Reed couldn’t do it, and he has to prove that he can save an old woman when Reed can’t.
And to screw with Mephisto, he has the reason and motive to do so. Why? Because said Demon had held his mother's soul hostage. Even if his Mother is at peace (I think? Comics aren't easy to keep track of this stuff). The fact that Mephisto is trying to do something like it to someone else. Much less a foe that he has faced on occasion, cause I wouldn't be surprised if Doom and Peter had fought a few times at the very least, and could have a modicum of respect, nothing that would really be obvious and pales in comparison to the view he has regarding Reed. Point is Doom would do it both to show up Reed, but also to spite Mephisto, like "You will not ruin another man's life so easily Demon. Especially not if Doom has anything to say about it!" Honestly, I kind of thing that would be in character for him to say and do. Granted I'm not a serious FF fan, much less all that versed on Doom either.
Adding to the conversation here you're 100% right that technically peter isn't to blame for the robber getting away. However I believe he blames himself not just because he actually had the power to do so, but because I think in parallel to the real world we as humans look back at loved ones we've lost and think "what could I have done?" I had lost my father when I was 9-10 years old and for a good 5 years after that I always asked myself "could I have done something?" Even though I was just a kid who had no control over something like that. I blamed Myself constantly even though my Mom always reassured me that wasn't true. Now full disclosure I've LOVED Spider-Man since I was 3 but I think that point in my life is where I truly felt the most like him, he's always kinda been this fictional big brother to me. To be that light in the dark. Sorry to get all sappy but that's the best way I can describe why he's so important to me personally, also to reinforce why I too hate ONE MORE DAY.
No Way Home exectutes the Peter Reset so much better than One More Day. Peter wishes that nobody remembers he was spider-man, but because of his own hastiness and failure to properly express what he ACTUALLY means, that everyone he hasnt told HIMSELF he's Spider-Man should forget, he puts the universe at risk. I find the reason WHY he wishes for this to be a lot better that OMD. He does it not simply for himself (although there definitely is some selfishness there), but because he's afraid that people will harm the his loved ones because of their affiliation with him. And the irony is, it's this very wish that kills Aunt May. If he hadnt gone to Strange to make this wish, May would have lived. But the wish also SAVES him from making the same mistake OMD Peter makes. Because of everything going wrong, because Gobbie killed May, Peter is able to meet the other Peters and not completely crumble. Because who knows Peter better than himselves? And at the end of everything, after he is helped to quell his rage at Norman and cures him, what does he do? He sacrifices everything he has not out of selfishness, but because it's the right thing to do here. He even gets to remember, so it's not a permanent loss! And he goes to MJ and Ned to fufill his promise to meet back up with them, but his self doubt kicks in looking at MJ (i think she had a wound from the final fight, i dont remember clearly) because he thinks she will just continue to be hurt by him. So, he chooses to stay out of her life for now. The reason I say for now is because of the necklace Peter gave to MJ. That she still wears AFTER the reset, when it should have no value to her. It's a sign that MJ remembers him deep down, and its a sort of promise that things will eventually be that net positive. TLDR, NWH takes OMD's ass story and makes it a crossover event that actually remains consistent with Peter's character.
I wonder what would have happened if the writing team decided to stick with Stan Lee's example of a natural progression for Peter's life and eventually decided to make his kids and grandkids adopt the Spiderman name.
Stuff like this is why I get so dumbfounded that people are so against they did at Peter retires and gets to have a family and let's one of the other spider takeover forebet, like like Myles or Miguel when he was stuck in the past, silk or anyone
One More Day ultimately became the reason I stopped reading comics. It was the last series I read and being a Spidey fan since I was a kid I felt betrayed by the undoing of his story told the last few decades. Seems like the popularity of the character prevents him from being able progress the way other characters have over the years unless it’s in a one shot or GN. That character was finally married and that gave opportunities to explore other challenges in life besides crime fighting so to undo all of that felt like a genuine disservice to the character and the fans.
I feel one more day would've been one of the best Spiderman stories if Peter made the right decision and moved forward with his life and MJ. Also the scene with The One Above All was pretty special to make Peter understand his impact on the world. It's extremely sad what marvel is doing to spiderman and I don't think his treatment will change.
Welcome back dude! I've been looking forward to a new Spider-Man video and the fact that it's on this topic makes me so damn happy!! THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO! Peter and MJ is the greatest, most iconic couple in all of comics, and I'm so so glad that there are others out there (like you) who feel the same way
Something about your video essay style is so compelling, I've never even read a comic but I get legitimately excited to see you've uploaded! Great work!
Don't know if you'll ever even see this comment. But this video, legitimately made me cry. I lost my dad in 2019. and you talking about how grief makes you appreciate what you have, that you didn't even realize when you had it. I couldn't keep myself together. All in all, though, grief and loss has helped shape me into the person I am now. It's never easy but in the long run it's needed, it's good for you. And that's what makes me so upset about one more day, instead of having Peter take the easy and worse way out and having some kind of payout at the end to reverse it or even just make it less bad, or have him take the hard way out like he actually would and dealing with that burden to shape him into a better person. It just ends with him making the childish decision and getting out the easy way.
So glad you focused on how disrespectful and unfair this story was to MJ, because I feel that gets glossed over a lot when people talk about why it's so terrible. She's the second most important character in all of Spider-Man besides Peter himself, and the way OMD just sacrifices her to the literal devil for the sake of Peter's manpain is absolutely infuriating.
To add insult to injury, Peter is also getting beat to near death by a villian he's tangled with(hell even shrugs off sometimes with no effort) for decades...and needs a suit to be on even level with him.
I'll forever hate OMD not only because of the massive retcon but because it made me see the actual action of Aunt Mays death as a good thing It only hit me with Insomniacs game, I did feel the ending was heartwrenching but there was a part of me that was genuinely glad to see Aunt May die because of my reaction to OMD, not because of I hate her but because I felt it was in spite of OMD. I love Aunt May so the realization that I was genuinely celebrating her death was a moment of introspective that really made me realize how much OMD shaped my view of Spider-man stories as a whole and it's made me realize that I basically automatically approach them from a negative view point now. Seeing the panel again of Aunt May being told why Peter does what he does and her putting the pieces together and nearly breaking down at the realization that Peter has been blaming himself for 10 years was such a harrowing moment because it reminded me of how much I love Aunt Mays character. I think the real reason I hate OMD so much is that I know for a fact that Aunt May would hate it too, it would utterly destroy her to know that Peter gave up literally everything for her, it's a story that truly tramples on everything May represents to me.
This video essay highlights why I like Miles Morales so much. Not only is he a great Spider-Man, he’s a new Spider-Man that can learn and grow over time, and we can grow with him. We don’t need a Zombie Spider-Man remarrying MJ and re-entering college every 5 years, we have Miles Morales.
When they killed their baby off I checked out. I knew the comic was over. I ended up writing my own head canon where Ben and Peter both existed and shared the load as Scarlet Spider and SM respectively. Peter ends up having a couple of kids, and the entire story becomes one of trying to protect his kids and raise them right while Ben takes on more and more of the burden. That's when Spider-Gwen showed up and Ben falls for her and puts their arrangement under pressure as Peter could no longer let Ben take on all of the responsibility of protecting New York. The two family are torn apart when Peter loses his third kid due to Ben failing to stop a villain and Peter would make his son grow distant because of his behavior towards his uncle Ben. The drama would pass on to his kids.
The virgin Peter Parker -never learns from experiences -whines about how nothing changes -sacrificed his marriage and future for his octogenarian constantly sick aunt who would have told him not to do it. -made a deal with Satan The chad Clark Kent -Never made a deal with the devil, literal or otherwise. -learns from his mistakes -happy with his wife and child -always tries to be optimistic
It’s honestly a blessing that we have Insomniac’s version of Spider-Man because he shows the growth that 616 Peter has needed since One More Day ruined him and Mary Jane. It’s at a point where I see Insomniac Peter is the canonical Peter Parker we deserved
At least we have the Spider-Girl comics, or Renew Your Vows, or 2009's "Real Clone Saga" and the recent Lost Hunt...all stories which demonstrate Marvel haven't entirely forgotten how to write the kind of Peter and MJ we want to read. All of them are pretty good endings for Peter, Spider-Girl in particular. I don't think Spider-Man's strengths truly lie in the ability to last forever as a story, he's the hero that could be us, but we as a people have finite stories.
You know, it would be cool if someone makes a comic where someone realizes that Peter is stuck is his sick version of the goundhog day, making him stuck as a young adult while everyone else is growing up, and goes to fight Mephisto to get Peter's life back, because it is awful to see every other character not only grow physically but also emotionally as characters with proper developments and Peter is out there studying for the same science exam for college a 10th year in a row while balancing his freelance photographer gig to pay an exhorbitant rent for a walk-in closet in modern day New York living as a spinster
Peter will never get that W. Everytime something good happens to him the writers are afraid that he might lose his "relatability" and plunge him back down. He can't keep a family. He can't keep a stable life, and he can't even have a girlfriend. As if the writers think their audience is a bunch of bums that never progress in life so they keep Peter down so they can "relate" to him.
This story, to this day singlehandedly made me stop reading anything Spider-Man related that's in the main continuity. Every time they have Peter talk about 'with great power comes great responsibility' after this, I physically cringe. This version of Peter made the single most selfish, irresponsible choice you could possibly make, and is rewarded for it by having his mind wiped. That they have the gall to still have him talk about great responsibility after that actually makes me sick. Not only that, but the story itself is just so unbelievably contrived. You're telling me Dr. Strange, Reed Richards, fucking Dr. Doom, none of them can heal a bullet wound? Dr. Doom, the guy who went to hell to save his mom and succeeded, the guy who fought The Beyonder and won, even without his body functioning, that guy can't heal a bullet wound? In another story, Peter literally communes with Aunt May's spirit, who tells him to let her go and that she's lived a good life. Like, this is the absolute worst of corporate storytelling. There is no logical in-story reason for anything to happen, it just happens because...it has to happen, that's it. It's also interesting to me how other Spider-Man media has seemingly deliberately commented and ripped on this story for how bad it is. The PS4 game has Peter making the exact opposite choice. He chooses to let Aunt May die, to save everyone else, that's on point. No Way Home has him still losing his relationship with MJ, but he does it to undo his own mistakes and to save everyone else, that's on point. We can have MCU Spider-Man be in-character and make tough choices, we can have video game Spider-Man doing it, but not the main Spider-Man in the comics I guess...fuck me.
Doom should've said "why the fuck should I help you?" To which Peter should have responded "well Mephisto wants to make a deal and Reed couldn't do it so-" And Doom says "I will make her young and healthy again, she will never want for water, sustenance, nutrition, she will become a god, and all I need is for Richards to know I did what he couldn't."
"If you pretend to be something everyday of your life until the end of your life even when no one is looking, that's not pretending." -A Wandering Knight
I'm pretty sure Aunt May would Purse Slap Peter to oblivion if she found out he chose her to no be united with Ben in heaven and costing him his daughter!
One thing is that Nick Spencer was so close to showing OMD was wrong, his first arc was showing Peter how he was being irresponsible for a while, doctor strange noticing there is something wrong with Peter's soul, and mainly Kindred being all about Peter "confessing his sins" until towards the end of run suddenly he is all about Norman (pretty clear it's due to editorial interference) it's so frustrating that we were so close to getting Spider-Man fixed and then the editorial ruined it again and now we have another character destruction run under Nick Lowe
I KNOW! I was really disappointed in the shift after Last Remains. Something changed because it was all about Peter's sin making Kindred who he is with actual panels from One More Day being shown, then at the end they dropped that completely and it was suddenly about a deal with Norman and Mephisto instead. It was so awkward to have big finale with Mephisto and Spider-Man at the end and the whole issue with Peter's soul and the deal was sidelined.
I’m currently reading the Spider-Man Lost Hunt comic that’s currently going on, and it makes me wish I was into comics during the time Peter and MJ were married because their bond and relationship in the comic is honestly the most endearing and overall best part of the story. I’m not really the biggest fan of the MCU Spider-Man, and it my opinion it’s probably the worst of the 3 live action adaptations (that’s not to say it’s bad), but what I will say is No Way Home’s adaptation of One More Day is by far an improvement on the original.
Yeah I was there when JM DeMatteis was writing the main 616 Spider-Man when I first started and it really brings me back. It was easily my favorite aspect of the comics and one of the reasons I stuck around for so long up until OMD with the character was seeing the relationship continue between Peter and his wife.
The points you mention are the exact reason why I stopped reading 616 and will always remember Ultimate Spider-Man very fondly. Although ultimate Peter had a very short run, he was able to grow as a person and also develop his relationships with his loved ones. He at least died fulfilling his purpose of protecting May, Gwen and MJ. Meanwhile 616 Peter is a 30 something manchild with no trajectory in life, gets beaten to a pulp by the likes of Vulture, and to top it all off, he's working under Norman... talk about being pathetic...
In my opinion, Joe Quesada, despite caring for the character, greatly misunderstood the things Spider-Man represented for most readers. That goes double for modern-day fans of the wall crawler. It wasn't just relatability that drew people to Spider-Man. And it certainly never was the endless misery he seems to think makes good storytelling. It was the philosophy of accepting responsibility for one's self, the drive to push forward despite hardships, and understanding changes in one's life, for better or worse. That's what made Peter Parker a hero to me. And this is why One More Day is forever a stain on his name as Spider-man.
Spider-Man editorial give their characters meaningful development instead of retreading old and busted storylines for the thousandth fucking time challenge (Impossible)
I have genuinely never felt more honestly seen and understood. You put my rage and bitterness and sorrow into words I could never articulate myself. I appreciate you so much.
Dude, I am so entertained by your retrospectives on Spiderman. I would love to see you do it on another long-running character like Spawn or maybe Moonknight.....
You know, after reading the Nick Spencer run it makes me mad that Marvel doesn’t let Peter be happy. It could have worked too, going back to the clone saga, maybe instead of Ben dying it’s Kaine that dies having a change of heart and Peter and MJ actually have a kid with Ben being there too. This Marvel can have their single Peter and have Peter who grew up at the same time. Now I’m not saying having Peter’s daughter should be a teen and him being in his 50s but having her be around 4-6 would be a good status quo for the comics. It’s a shame to see everyone around Peter grow up get married and have kids (Eddie, Deadpool, Harry) but Peter is still single at 29. Hopefully things will get better
The fact that the 616 stand-in for Peter in the upcoming Spider-Verse film has him being a dad to a kid he has with Mary Jane. I can't help but feel like they seriously are out of touch with what people actually want. Honestly, I'd be willing to watch it if for no other reason than to get moments where that Peter and his Daughter can be just happy together. Unlikely given how the plot of the film is focused around Miles and probably other Spider's, but it'd be nice to at least give some attention to all of that. Plus if people start clamoring for it in other forms of media, then maybe one day. We'll actually see an event where 616 Peter get's to be happy, to have a life with Mary Jane and get to be a dad.
@@dliatsos1marvel editors don’t look at what most fans want. They Base it off sales, if people stop buying the comics then they’ll look at what we want cause they’ll have no other choice
@@parkerramsbottom If it were two decades ago, sure. As it is now, not even a drop in sales would be enough to give them a reason to change the approach they are using at the moment. They simply do not care unless they will actually get fired from their jobs, assuming even that occurs.
@@dliatsos1 even if the editorial team doesn’t care, someone higher up will. Zeb isn’t writing this bad for no reason, he’s written other stories that were good. A big change will come sooner than later, Spider-Man is marvels work horse. If that isn’t doing good someone will step in
Great video! I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too, especially after I checked out JMS’ early stuff and compared it to parts of the current run of Spider-Man. The stories lack much needed growth and tbh maturity of the main character. 10/10
Honestly it's so simple on how to evolve spider-man. Let him be happy. Let him have kids. Let us see how he deals with being a father. And, in a few years, those kid(s) could be their own heroes. A new Spider-man for a new generation.
It's really bizarre how Peter and Eddie were at the same age when Eddie was introduced and now Eddie is a father of a teenager while Peter isn't even married
Sad that spencer could not fix one more day(because the editorial) , its true the Kindred thing was unnecessary long, but he did showed hints that make me believe he really understand how bad the status quo of Peter is. And thankyu for this video, this video is better than what the editorial of spider-man has been doing with him for quite time
The reason why OMD "ruined" Spider-Man, and hero comics in genera, for me at least, is not because it's bad, it's because it pulled the curtains back, and revealed that we are stuck in a hamster wheel, and that there will never be any real progression. It showed that the moment something interesting develops, the moment we get too far from the starting point of Peter Parker, he (and us readers) will be pulled right back to that safe Issue #1, with his life fucked up all over again. And just like I said, this isn't just a Spider-Man thing, it's a comic book thing.
Really thought it would stick after 20 years though. One of the longest running status quos that was eventually undone that I know of. It also was like 600-700 issues over that time considering all the satellite books that were running in parallel with ASM during Spidey's marriage. It was a LOT to undo, and the comics were at their highest selling during the period he was married in the early 90s... so it had lot of exposure to comic readers, like 5 times more than the comic readership today.
What a wonderfully put video. Good job Alex for putting into words what I have been thinking for the longest time. People ask why everyone gets so pressed about this storyline, that it's not that bad, that Peter Parker is human and makes mistakes. And to that I say... This story doesn't suck because Peter sold his soul to the devil, this story sucks because Peter forgot that "With great power there must also come great responsibility". Spider man sacrificed his unborn daughter so that he could save his already old and dying Aunt. Peter and MJ were a happily married couple, whose love had survived everything short of a nuclear winter, and yet he decided to sacrifice their love and their unborn child to save an old woman who's had more than enough time on this planet. And again, they agree to this deal with Mephisto. One More Day is the story of how Peter Parker makes a deal with the devil. Just to reiterate, Peter Parker makes a deal with the devil and sacrifices MJ and his future daughter because Joe Quesada said so. There is no ulteriore motive, it was just the writer's choice and that's it. No plot relevance, no nothing. Peter fucking Parker makes a deal with the FUCKING devil. Having Spider-Man deal with magic or mysticism would be like Dr. Strange having to stop a nuclear meltdown with a screwdriver and a yardstick. "One More Day" is a blatant attempt to breakup Peter Parker and Mary Jane for no logical reason. Instead of constructing plot points around a narrative or structured story, as most good stories are, "One More Day" is a story that was crafted around one particular action, and was created to simply serve as a narrative to that one plot point. In fact, it's so distasteful of a story that its pungency seeps into the exceptional Civil War story arc preceding it. Many parts of Civil War, like Aunt May getting shot, and Spider-Man going on the lam, seem to only serve the purpose of moving the pieces into place for "One More Day". But my biggest anger-point, somehow even angrier than what precedes it, is the fact that this comic gets the whole character completely wrong. The entire allure of Peter Parker is that he's a regular guy, someone people can relate to. He has financial problems, his love life isn't to be envied, and he gets into arguments with friends and family. Joe Quesada must have forgotten that normal people don't make Faustian pacts, or sacrifice their eternal love for someone else. Most people even accept the passing of an elderly loved one. But because he didn't like a married Peter Parker, the decision was made to break up Marvel's premier couple in the cheapest, sleaziest way possible. Not only is "One More Day" the most insulting Spider-Man story ever written, it was conceived for all the wrong reasons. I've loved Spider-Man for as long as I can remember, and loving Spider-Man implies loving Peter Parker. You can't have one without the other, which is why this story is so fuckin' idiotic. Peter Parker is an incredible and revolutionary character because he's human, because he's us! Because, in HIS WORDS in Amazing Spider-Man #50, "Now, at last, it's all crystal clear to me once more! I can never renounce my Spider-Man identity. I can never fail to use the powers which a mysterious destiny has seen fit to give me! No matter how unbearable the burden may be-- No matter how great my personal sacrifice. I can never permit one innocent being to come to harm because Spider-Man failed to act. And I swear that I never will!". I've read every single run of Spider-Man over the years. You mention a comic, I've read it. I love the character whether it's in movies, in comics, in videogames or in shows. And the reason I love Spider-Man isn't because he looks cool while fighting, it's because I can relate to Peter Parker to an absurd level. It's because Spidey has shown me that it's okay to face problems, it's okay to hurt and it's okay to be different. As long as you do everything in your power to do good, you will live a life worth remembering. Because everyone has a duty to do what's right, no matter how much it hurts. And even if you hurt, there's always gonna be a way up. I've lost people I loved, and no matter what, I cannot have them back. But what I can do... Is move forward. Just like Peter has always done. Because that's who Peter Parker is. Not a Spider-Man... But simply a man. And that's not who he is in One More Day. That's what makes it the greatest insult to any intellectual property EVER.
Loved this. I'm a massive Spidey fan, but I haven't a chance to read the comics, so when someone explains stuff from the comics, it makes my day, especially if it's Alex
Pre-One More Day Peter was the perfect jumping off point for his future character development. Stories like Spider-Verse, 2015's Secret Wars, heck even Dark Web, would be better when experienced through the lenses of a Peter Parker who refused the deal with the literal Devil, the Peter Parker who's a family man, whose character has been tested and is the better for it. Heck, they even now have Miles as the teenage Spider-Man. He's literally the perfect vehicle if Marvel wants to do teenage-drama style of Spider-Man stories. Miles could've been that, while Peter gets more adult-oriented stories where he grows the fuck up. Like, c'mon... it's pretty much written on the walls... It's why I'm really hopeful for Insomniac's Marvel universe, as that seems to be the direction they're taking their Spider-Man story. I'm still waiting if they'll nail Wolverine and the rest of the X-Men in that universe, but I'm sure it'll at least be good. Cyclops needs to get some good representation in media outside the comics. As much as I have a soft spot for Fox's X-Men universe, I've always hated how Cyclops is treated as Wolverine's punching bag in that continuity(ies).
And hopefully bring them back to people who don't think Mutant's need to live in their own separate world apart from the rest of humanity. All I've heard about from the most recent run's have them basically split themselves off from the rest of humanity 'for the greater good'. Uh huh, you expect me to believe that doing such BS which Magneto had originally desired is somehow the better option? Not to mention all the 'ExPaNsIoN' they have done to Moria McTaggart, even if I ain't an X-Men fan. I don't see how making her into whatever she is currently is somehow 'good'. Granted it could be because I always figured the idea of Mutants and Human's getting along and just being the same old group of people rather than separate things was the right way to solve the 'issue' of Mutant's in wider society. Treat them as Individuals, not as part of some group. There are normal human's who are assholes just as there are Mutant's who are assholes. Them being of one group or the other does not change the fact they are an asshole. A fact that sadly seems ignored and outright disdained by people today, whichever aspect you wish to apply of that as you will.
Marvel, please let Spider-Man have it easy, he's suffered enough. I'd buy a story where everything is right in Peter's life as he goes to buy milk or something lmao.
Joe Quesada's quotes definitely don't come off like preservation for a character, you can't keep the same stories going on and on I really do love the 60's and 70's era of the comics but if all Spider-Man stories were that era there's no variety no risk, no point. Having him age and go through his college years and get married even though it was a little rushed it got Peter out of that kid mentality. You can't just keep things in the same era because it'll "keep new fans coming" Some of the best Spider-Man stories or when he's a little older imo. When he's finally reached a point in his life where the balance is second nature. Take for instance the insomniac game. he's 23 years old he has his dream job of being a scientist, he's honed his powers. And yet it still feels just as Spider-Man as those classic stories.
Honestly, Gwen effectively being alive again angers me more than OMD. The idea that having a family inhibits drama betrays the existence of the Allen family (the Flash). Shit was never more wild than when Bart and Impulse joined the crew.
This video gets a like from me not only for articulating what is wrong with One More Day, but also the hidden depth of Mary Jane during her “airhead” era. I also really love that Parallel Lives retconned her knowing Spider-Man’s secret identity since Amazing Fantasy 15 and not only doesn’t contradict anything from that time, but allows for a reinterpretation of just about every moment from her as either a front , surreptitiously covering for Peter, or simply being much deeper than initially thought. Obviously it wasn’t part of any grand plan, it’s merely an incredible coincidence, but it’s why I simply love MJ’s story. It’s also why I hate interpretations that fail to realize that depth and to make her “plain Jane” because “there’s no way a supermodel like MJ would end up with a dork like Peter”, which really means “there’s no way supermodel MJ has any depth or real character to her”. If you simply don’t want supermodel MJ, then give Peter another love interest. Don’t make MJ a reporter simply because you don’t think people will know Betty Brant. Don’t make her a high school overachiever when you have a plethora of other characters from Peter’s past, or simply make up a new character.
Listen there are problems with the most recent run but taking that one quote completely out of context, even out of context of the literal rest of the page that it's on is just dishonest and stupid. Peter was trying to explain to Black Cat who was his current girlfriend why he definitely wasn't with MJ currently, he made up some BS excuses including that one, and Felicia immediately calls him out for it and says that it's absurd. Please stop parroting disinformation. Peter never said that seriously. Just stop.
Maybe this could be spun in a way that Mephisto created a world where Spider-man was unable to move on from all those deaths that happened and they kept weighing on him, making him less effective as a hero and clouding his judgment and all of this leads to a huge tragedy affecting many people, because of Spider-man and the only way for him to fix this is to break the deal he made with Mephisto and let aunt May die.
The way I always interpreted Spidey's origin story was not that any normal person should have stopped the thief but that because he easily could have was the issue. Especially after learning about Steve Ditko's, um... interesting, ideologies on individualism and personal execeptionalism it makes perfect sense that Spiderman should have stopped him. The cop didn't know but Peter knew and he still didn't live up to his potential. And now how the responsibility to use that power to prevent things like that in the future. Which kind of recontextializes One More Day in a sense. That Peter had to make that sacrifice to be the best Spiderman he could be to get his secret identity back and save Aunt May. Because he can fix it and his marriage to MJ isn't as important as reaching his superhero potential and righting a wrong he inadvertently caused. Not defending it as Peter had grown far past Ditko's interjections and became much more about self sacrifice and sentimentality, as well as the actual lead up to the decision portrays it very different than this, but just interesting if you think about it.
I know it’s really simple and isn’t covered in lights, but I love your setup so much. I have so much stuff in my room and I’ve been trying to experiment with my own setup and I just can’t get it right.
I live in the apartment from Spider-Man 2 so this was the only part of my room that wasn't falling apart. Literally no thought put into it. Don't overthink, be honest!
great analysis as always! I think the problem brought up in this video is a symptom of a *bigger* issue. that issue being how art can seemingly no longer be finite, it must ALWAYS be in production. like if they ended the spider-man comics, they would never gain the same traction as with a different IP. i think that sort of thinking is a self-fulfilling process, where since people *expect* Marvel to release infinite amount of spider-man material, there is no room to let character peter parker die (permanently) or retire. it’s the nature of how business like this works: who cares where this character is going, who cares if this idea was bad, we MUST secure the infinite future of spider-man. whether that is a good sacrifice or not, is your decision.
joe quassada sent me a marvel care package because my mom worked on his teeth (she is a surgical assistant) I don’t think he’s a bad guy just a bad story teller
oh for sure, Quesada is also responsible for some of my favourite storylines. As I said in this video, he clearly has a love for the character. I do actually regret throwing a ton of shade towards him in my earlier videos, and hope my analysis here doesn't come off as an attack, just a critique
What was in the package??
@@YonDivi teeth
@@alexlennen is jms your favourite Spider-Man writer
@@YonDivi some t shirts, a lego set, planet hult trade, thor trade, ultimate spider-man trade
"Peter sacrifices his marriage with MJ to the devil so he can save Aunt May's life" is one of those plots where just saying it out loud makes it obvious that it's bad but articulating on why it's bad is hard.
You articulate it very well.
honestly, if they had May died and Peter having to suffer from that i think would be a better path then what we got
@@SpectacularSpidey670 yeah like another Spiderman property
He had a great responsibility, a great responsibility that the writers ignored for this comic
I mean, it could have worked had it been a "What If" One Shot, not something to set the standards of the story going forward but just a "for fun" exploration of "what if things played out like that" ? I think most of the issues with One More Day don't stem from the story itself but rather the fact it has become the canon, had it been a self contained story I don't think it would have caused much stir
If the deal was that Mephisto would erase one day of Peter's choice, in exchange for one day of Mephisto's choice, then it would have been somewhat better IMO, with Mephisto's role as a manipulator being in full swing. The only detail he'd give Peter being that it must be "one of equal or greater importance"
And so, Mephisto erases the day Aunt May was shot, but also erases the day Peter proposed to MJ, completely altering the timeline.
And the story is about Peter trying to find a way to make Mephisto go back on the deal, potentially finding a loophole in the wording of the deal.
Granted it's a bit of a Shrek Forever After situation, but it's better than the reasoning we got
It'll never not be insane to me that Batman has and has had a kid for over a decade now yet Marvel still is too afraid to let Spider-Man get married again
Never mind Batman, Harry Osborn has had a son since the 1980s who has aged like 10 years. If that doesn't age all the characters I don't know what does.
Dick Grayson, Wally West, Batman and Superman are growing up too moving forward. Even Damian Wayne is growing up.
I mean they did pull that same bullshit with Batman too. Remember the Catwoman/Batman wedding issue? I sure do. I'll always remember.
@@XwoooahX Man, fucking Eddie Brock has a son too 😭
@Baki Sadly, that's not really the case. Comics have always regressed their characters back to their "basic versions" one way or another.
Wally isn't growing up. He just straight up doesn't matter, because Barry Allen keeps stealing the spotlight. Hell, none of the Flashes grow up, they barely count as characters, they just exist to reboot the DC Universe.
Grayson? He was about to get married to Starfire in the original Teen Titans run, but got One More Day'd. Then the exact same thing happened with Batgirl.
Them he hooked up with another girl, bit that didn't work out, then he got amnesia. Nightwing will never really progress beyond "lame Batman ripoff, eye candy for girls version".
Superman... yeah, he's faring better. Only downside is that his son aged up rapidly off screen.
Batman? All he does is chase Joker. His biggest villain now is Joker in a Batman costume. He was about to get married to Catwoman, and he got One More Day'd by his own father. Who worked with BANE.
I’m just glad that even casual Spidey fans and people who are somewhat familiar with the comics are gradually understanding that Marvel’s attempts at maintaining the character’s “archetype” has done more damage than good, and the theme of power and responsibility has been long forgotten.
Wait a minute... IT'S YOU!
I have seen your video about the state of Spider-Man comics more times than what is healthy to admit.
@@hugoalvarez8307 Thank you. To be honest I didn’t expect my video on Spider-Man to get that big. I honestly thought one of my attempts at making a Godzilla video would gain as much traction. But I’ve being going with the flow and have some more Spidey videos planned.
@@daikaijutony3534 That's so cool! I'll watch them as soon as they get out. Keep Up the good work!👍
Ironically this run being so bad has drawn more attention to the comics than any good story since Superior Spider-Man.
The problem isn't even his archetype. He doesn't have to be made a middle aged man with kids in the present day in order to feel like he's growing as a person (though the 35-38 year old married Peter with kids in the new Ultimate Spider-Man seems very well received). Before he was forced to do OMD, JMS himself had the perfect status quo that felt like a natural progression and yet familiar without making him feel any older than Marvel wanted him (somewhere between 25-30 or bstween 27-32 like he is now). He was still married, but he became a part time science teacher at his old high school, formally joined the New Avengers after years as a loner (who just so happened to cross paths with and work everyone under the sun in random adventures), and even moved himself and his family into Avengers Tower (until Civil War blew all that up way too soon). Even Dan Slott's decision to make Peter a research scientist at Horizon Labs was a really good idea. In spite of some blunders like Sins Past, Spider-Man was already in the ideal place before OMD got forced. Another thing they could do is something that they're finally starting to do after far too long in the new Spider-Men comic, make him a formally make him an older friend and mentor to Miles Morales. There are ways he can show that he's evolving as a person without overly aging him, and even on the subject of having a family, all that would be absolutely necessary (if they chose to go this route) is to formally establish Mayday (or whoever, be it her, some other kid, or multiple) are a future established as something that will absolutely happen at some undetermined point in the future. In real time, MJ could not give birth to kids for another 50 years for all it really matters, so long as it's established that Peter and MJ's life is going somewhere, regardless of the path or how long it might take to get there.
What really annoys me is that while Peter is stuck in high school, every other Marvel hero gets to grow up. It’s insane that Jessica Jones once had a crush on him, and she has settled down with Luke Cage. Soon we gonna see characters like Ms Marvel, and Miles Morales grow and have families yet, Peter will still be stuck in limbo
Miles Morales outgrowing Peter would be fucking nuts.
Bro u made me worried 😂
Gwen and Miles get together and say: Hey...Remember that Parker guy? Yeah...dude needs a GF...why won't he date that MJ Chick? I bet they'd be a lovely 💑 couple!
@@LowellLucasJr. 💀
@@greanbeen2816 I can't even stomach the idea but I bet it's gonna happen soon
I remember reading something along the lines of "imagine if aunt may found out peter sold his family and future away in order to save her"
And it's stuck with me ever since.
That could actually be a great story arc. Good start to a slow run that undoes what can be undone of One More Day too.
May would've been absolutely furious. She would probably force Peter to cancel the deal with Mephisto even if it means she'll be dead by sunrise.
*[Spoilers for the Insomniac game]*
May is dying and Peter has the only antidote to her affliction but most of the city is sick as well and reverse engineering it will take hours or even a day or two. She very heavily implies to Peter that letting her go is the right decision and after he fights the urge to use the antidote on her he concedes that everyone else's lives matter more. If he used it on her I'd imagine she'd practically disown him for dooming many others to death and dishonoring Ben's memory.
Knowing their unmarried Peter agenda, they’d probably perform some mental gymnastics in character writing and have Aunt May somehow approve so that they would have less reasons to undo One More Day.
ooh, imagine if Peter doesn't remember the deal, and only May does?
Insomniac took a big shit on this and it's one of the litany of reasons I love their take on Spider-Man. Peter sacrificed the most important thing in his life to save everyone else despite the pain it caused him. That's the responsibility I expect from a true Spider-Man.
THIS!!
MJ is annoying asf in The Game tho
@@waseem__600 That is one of the few things in the game that irk me. I especially hate how she withholds information on terrorists planning to do something at grand central station. They're terrorists that bombed City Hall, they're not gonna hold a peaceful protest in a densely populated landmark location. That said I did like the arc she had with Peter, even if some of it was forced.
@@Dalton_Boardman2000 Eh She always gets in dangerous situations that could get her killed when Peter saves her she gets pissed and the game is telling us that MJ is in the right💀
@@waseem__600 I think it made sense but the problem is we don't see context. We're told that this was an issue in their relationship prior.
That Peter was overbearing in protecting her and she wants to do her own things and had chosen to go into a career that is risky.
But we're introduced to their relation after all this. So it's not surprising most people will be on Spidey's side immediately bc we're playing as him and only seen him in a positive portrayal.
So why I think why MJ bothered people was exactly that, told not shown. So if you weren't really paying attention it just feels like she is being high maintenance.
But I think she had a point and I think it worked, it just required players to pick up on some things they may miss.
(Also bc her gameplay was so boring and annoying. It really did not need to be included).
I've always said: If Peter had asked Doctor Doom, May would be fine. Or better.
"Why should I help you? And it's just a bullet wound, this is beneath me."
"Yeah, I mean, Reed couldn't either."
"You son of a bitch, I'm in. Your payment is mocking Richards for this every time you see him."
Some time later:
"Ok, so Mephisto is involved. So I get to shit on Richards AND Mephisto today. Hey Peter, your aunt's about to become immortal!"
What the hell?💀
YES
Y'know what really sucks? PETER DID ASK HIM. When Dr. Strange did that fuckin astral projection that let Peter ask fuggin everyone, Dr. Doom was part of that! AND DR. DOOM APPARENTLY EITHER REFUSED OR COULDN'T FIX A BULLET WOUND EITHER. VICTOR VON DOOM. THE MOTHERFUCKER WHO WOULD FIND A WAY JUST BECAUSE REED COULDN'T!
@@cillbipher2613 OMD shat on So Many different characters...
Gigachad Doom at it again
Y’know, I bet a conversation with Johnny Blaze would have changed Peter’s mind on making deals with the devil in the name of saving a loved one.
Oh that's true
Johnny Blaze: "You shouldn't make a deal with the Devil, Parker, no matter how tempting it may seem. I did it once, and look where it got me."
Peter: "You mean I can become a flaming skeleton and ride motorcycles too? Oh man, that's awesome! Where do I sign up?"
Johnny: "....I feel like you're learning the wrong things from this conversation."
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 that sounds more like homecoming Spider-Man
@@Saitama-xm3ll Oh God no, I've become an MCU writer, hurry, kill me now before the infection takes-
....He's right behind me, isn't he?
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 ☠️ , bruh they haven't ruined Spider-Man yet . Let's hope they don't in future also.
Nick Spencer was SO close to fixing One More Day and it’s so devastating they didn’t let him
Nick Spencer's Spider-Man run will go down in history as the comic book industry equivalent of Lucy letting Charlie Brown run all the way across the field and then pulling the football up when he was an inch away from a field goal
YESS!! God damn editorial once again
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 I swear if they had given him like 10 more issues he would have fixed it. But nope they had to rush the Beyond event so that we could get to issue 900 but with Wells ruining the title no one really cares right now
@@henricusaquae867 At least they let him retcon Sins Past, as a consolation prize. Though, personally, I thought even that was too cluttered and rushed to be satisfying.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076yeah and he made it more weird and kind of worst
We need like a Spider-Man: Undone storyline where a new writer comes in and just makes the story a big middle finger to all the continuity changes, instead changing their continuity to allow the character to progress.
"Can't have enough drama with older, married Peter Parker." Mr. Quesada clearly hasn't watched much drama. Even ignoring obvious spouse stuff, being a father, teacher (or whatever), neighbor, and older superhero can provide an infinite amount of drama, limited only by the imagination of the writer(s). Saying that there couldn't or wouldn't be enough is a fallacy.
You’re thinking of Spider-man: Life Story.
I mean, Superman who has been around since the late 30's is a father and that only made him that much more relatable than he already was. Batman too, Quesada's train of thought died with The Brave and The Bold from Grant Morrison and with Jon Kent, meanwhile Spider-man is stuck in a Flash type of deal where neither Barry or Wally can have their twins yet.
Also, if they want younger Spider-Man stories: Miles Morales is doing great. Ben Reilly could have been good too. Hell, keep Peter and May together and they could have a Spider-Kid.
Spider-Man is a title, Peter Parker is a name. They don't Have to be linked.
It's hard to do a good, respectful passing of the torch, but it's far from impossible.
Batman Beyond did it pretty damn fantastically too.
@Ivan Agustin Ortiz Wally has had his kids back for years now. And Barry's kids were born in his past, grew up in the future while he was dead, and died as heroes.
Have a spider-man story focused on Peter choosing to let someone else take on the mantle of Spider-Man, and have him focus on living a family life, but still taking responsibility by being a sort-of "guy in the chair" for the Spidey who takes on the mantle full time (I say either Miles Morales or Ben Reilly, though Miles would work better for the role imo).
Peter saying he loves Mary Jane like a sister when he kissed her, formed a romantic relationship with her, had s3x, and even got her pregnant (even if that last one isn't canon now) is going to be one of the most infamous moments in recent Marvel history.
If you didn’t read the comic then let me explain he didn’t say that cause he meant it he was saying a list of different things he could to disassociate Peter from mj romantically most of which he never meant and even Felicia knows that I don’t see how Peter fumbling trying to over compensate and getting called out for it is gonna be infamous but we shall see
@@Ace-0f-Spadez then bro should have said Friends with benefits or something
You don't have to censor sex. This is you tube. Your mom is not reading your comments.
Thank you!
@@Ace-0f-Spadez THIS. I don't get how people don't see that he's lying to himself. black cat even calls him out for it IN THE SAME PANEL. this current run has a lot of flaws but "peter saying he loved MJ like a sister" is not one of them because its not true. he was put in a situation and tried to quickly come up with a lie.
Saying Gwen is Peter's first love is Betty Brant erasure and I won't take it
I more saw Betty as a high school crush than a "real" love lol. I think he wanted to marry her at some point but I took that as him being desperate and it was the 60s
Always remember Betty Brant. She is not a foot note in Peter's romantic life.
She was just a crush, Gwen was his first lover
Yeah that triggered something in me.
I think it's still accurate. Betty wasn't even Peter's first crush. It was her and Liz Allan (spelling). Love and infatuation aren't the same thing, and besides, their relationship very clearly developed into a mutual platonic friendship that sometimes borders on a brother-sister dynamic later on. Gwen may not have heen the first, but she was his first serious relationship.
Alex, I recently lost my brother this month after 16 years of bonding with him. and god, I just want to let you know you are absolutely amazing with words. I know this is a video about Spiderman, but the ideas that you convey between Spiderman and the loss of Gwen, or Spiderman's uncle are painfully accurate to how losing a loved one feels. I love how much time you take to get your facts straight and go in-depth with these analysis videos. Honestly, just listening to these has helped me a lot in a sense. I know it's quite an odd comparison but thank you, honestly. I can't wait to see more videos in the future.
I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. Nothing will ever heal that, but do keep seeking out stories and those who are wise enough to tease out the truth in them. The best ones allow us to exercise our most painful emotions to build resilience and gratitude. They offer us some gentle guidance through our darkest thoughts and feelings, and they let us know that we're not alone. You say that the stories of Peter losing Gwen and Ben are an odd comparison, but they're not. Authors wrote the experiences of grief into some of those stories, and whether or not it was theirs, it came from somewhere. Those stories teach us what Uncle Ben pointed out. That's the human experience. We'll all deal with it. So be kind to yourself, be kind to others, and let's all just navigate through this morass as best as we can. I wish you the best.
@@PedricCuf Thank you so much for the kind words, Pedric. Things have been really tough lately, although they've been getting better. I appropriate the thoughts
@@papercut-channelMy best wishes for your family and your future. Your brother is in a far better place now. Take care, my friend.
Also, Peter's marriage to MJ was the best relationship Peter has ever had in the comics and will never be topped. OMD even establishes them as a true love so pure it is beyond what Mephisto has seen in thousands of years. The narrative of Spider-Man is MJ is "the one". This undermines the soap opera Quesada wanted since fans know Peter and MJ belong together and other love interests are a distraction. It's why we see Marvel going through such lengths to sabotage Peter and MJ every time they want to change up love interests to try to sell Peter with another woman.
I agree.They're the TOP❤️
@@sofialogozzo2718 agreed
Your segment with Aunt May’s original death and it’s subsequent rewrite really struck home with why I got bored with comics. It’s so frustrating seeing characters you like be stuck in limbo forever. Forced to never to have a satisfying ending and reliving the same retreads of older stories. I know Marvel and other comic book companies can’t afford to retire characters like Spider-Man, Batman, Captain America, the X-men, and Judge Dredd but I really just want some closure for these characters.
That’s why I’m my opinion the Spider-Man run ends at issue 400 where aunt may passed away the first time. It’s a bitter sweet ending with aunt may passing away and Peter and MJ having the rest of their lives together with the unknown ahead.
Makes me wonder what's the point of having legacy characters if you don't want to move on the original in the first place
@@v10fc92 the point is money ofc
@@Pero-zl4jp The be and end all I guess…
@@Pero-zl4jp Spider-Man's run ended in a What If...? comic. The first appearance of May Parker's Spider-Girl.
Also...up until Norman Osborn returned, Spider-Man comics read like a manga. Everyone who died stayed dead, Peter got older, everyone else also advanced. Then the clone saga happened and then the usual comic related BS that was infecting other comics started happening to Peter's stories as well.
It really upsets me how MJ just got together with some other guy and chose to have kids with him when there are COUNTLESS instances where she and Peter got together and were perfectly happy. THEY’RE LITERALLY PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER, LET THEM BE HAPPY OML
To be fair they are also like bother and sister according to modern spidey comics
@@TheDrexLordGuess what, modern spidey comics suck
Its only been 6 months those kids were clearly part of a package deal situation.
@Drex lord yeah no they are meant to be together no trying to change that is gona work
@@TheDrexLordThat is pretty idiotic if you tell me, how in someone head this make sense (not saying this to you, its more about the editorial)
Spider-Man is with MJ in games, movies, and cartoons. I ask anyone whose dating Spider-Man and they say MJ. She is Marvel's Lois Lane. So why is the only place they're not together is in the damn comics?!
Writers and editorial🗿
I actually don't mind this. Comics and Main stream do not have to be aligned all the time. If the writers choose to do so then that is all good, but I would never force them. I think the issue (from an outsider perspective that is into other media more than comics), is that they never pair him with anyone just for him to suffer. Like bring back Gwen and he dates and marries her? Nope. Let him be with MJ his second love of his life? Nope. Can't let that happen. Fine Felicia even though she doesn't love Peter. Nope. Silk, someone that can appreciate both? Nope. Well damn guess he's gonna die alone for no damn reason. I mean a chracter doesn't have to be in a relationship, but since we got so many version of him in one AND he has had a kid with MJ this is ass.
Legit, Superman and Lois have been married for years, they have a son and have recently just adopted two more kids.
Nobody’s reading his comics praying for a return to the 70’s or early 80’s where he was Lois’ coworker and reporter rival.
@@danielwood6833though people do wish his son actually turned back into a kid... Man they messed up that so badly
Comic book writers are hacks, that is the reason.
I remember people questioning No Way Home for using the One More Day concept, but in the end, they made a change that makes the story works: there was urgency behind Peter's decision. The only way to stop the multiverse from colliding with the MCU was for everyone to forget who Peter was. They even let Aunt May stay dead.
The only reason people dont care that much about the movie is because those versions of the supporting cast are awful. There's a general apathy for them. It isnt comparable.
Except there were other options for him to take, he just didn't think of them.
Said options were:
1. Tell Dr Strange to make everyone forget about Mysterio and everything he said.
2. Tell him to make everyone forget Spider-Man, so that no one can forget Peter Parker and he can make his debut as Spider-Man again.
And 3. Tell him to make everyone forget the news report and video, as opposed to making them forget Spider-Man himself.
It really does suck that there is such a massive incentive to stop a character from growing up too much and instead trap them at a stage that is more profitable.
At least some writers are still willing to allow characters to grown and form actual relationships and have families, and those stories are some of my favorites.
I don't even know if you can confidently say it's more profitable. One of the best selling and most beloved Spider-Man films was partially about a version of Peter that was old and jaded stepping into the father role. It's not about chasing trends. It's not even about taking risks. It's about dogma.
@@janembagaming668 I assumed the consistency granted would be more profitable long term even if it'll never be a best seller anymore.
A consistent casual audience instead of trying new things and hoping people love it.
I don't really get what you mean by dogma, but that might just be becuase my thoughts here are mainly surface level and I don't know enough understand why it is.
Marvel editorial has really dug their heels into the "Let's keep Peter Parker a perpetual loser" idea. It's not even a case of him being a hard-luck everyman, he just feels like a damn manchild these days in the Wells run
While the Big Time arc was during the oft derided Dan Slott years (some readers hate him, I personally think his stuff was okay up until 2015) it was a natural step in Peter's character. Letting him work as a scientist while also being on The Avengers proper. If we have to retain the dumb idea of spider-man being eternally single, at least let him feel like an adult lol. I haven't purchased an issue since the start of Wells' tenure (Time jump? Pete and MJ broken up again? Pass)
I just feels like it's always a step or two back for spider-man, which is annoying as hell when you're a lifelong fan who'd been collecting new issues of ASM since middle school lol
Yeah watching media adaptation versions at this point is the only way to see Peter actually grow as a character
@@PopeMical I can see your point here but I still feel that incredibly safe writing decisions are ultimately not going to work long term especially considering comic sales are on the down trend these days.
When I say dogma, I'm trying to say (albeit a bit melodramatically) that I feel that Marvel editorial has a strong idea of what Spider-Man "should" be, and doesn't want to stray from that in any real sense. That'd be totally fine if this was a different medium. But Spider-Man is a long running character whose story is and will span over decades of time. Within reason, you have to let the character change and do new things if you want to keep things from going stale over these incredibly long spans of time.
Peter Parker's active degeneration in marvel hurts. It really, really hurts.
Yeah especially when the media adaptation versions are doing much better in growing Spidey as a character (hence why so many of this generations favourite versions of Spidey aren't from the comics).
@@v10fc92 exactly, he is doing great in animated spider-verse, mcu and games. hopefully with freshman year we get a good animated tv series too, but i really wish diseny and sony work together to bring back spectacular spider-man
It’s so jarring, especially when he’s written in other peoples comics and actually acts like😊 Spider-Man.
They think making his life a fuck show that it'll somehow resonate more with the audience. Like fuck man sometimes we wanna see characters catch a break and be happy.
It's interesting how two modern adaptations (The Insomniac game and No Way Home) adapt One More Day to some extent but with the caveat that it recontextualized elements that would make sense for the character
1. Having Peter choose saving NY or saving May
2. The one doing the mindwiping spell being Dr. Strange and being done to avoid a bigger crisis beyond to just himself.
& WITH IRON MAN 2021 SHOW THAT YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE BASICS WITHOUT RUINING THE GROWTH OF THE CHARACTER
Technically Dr Strange doing that was taken from One Moment In Time
@@travismoon3251I've heard of that comic, what's it about?
No Way Home successfully reset Peter into the position they wanted him to be in, and did it without having to completely ignore everything the character stood for. They even used it to teach him the lesson of responsibility.
OMD is horror story from a different point of view. A person so unwilling to lose control of mortality that he goes against everything he loves, takes away everyone else's free will, literally says no to God (One above all met him in park) and then makes the deal with the devil so he can remain a child forever.
That's why the main villain in Edge of Time is a Peter willing to destroy the world to keep his loved ones alive rather then deal with the trauma
If you wanna see a good continuation of the original spiderman who's married to mj and has a kid I'd recommend reading the spidergirl series, it takes place about 20 years after the end of the clone saga where Peter has been retired from being spiderman and instead works as a lead detective for a local police department while raising his teenage daughter who's currently in high-school and his toddler son. His daughter soon starts to develop spider powers as she enters high-school and learns the truth about her father's past and decides to continue his legacy by becoming spidergirl. Peter naturally is completely against that idea at first when he finds out about her plans but soon realizes that he instead of trying to stop her which he knows he can't, he decides to mentor and teach her the proper way to be a superhero so he can keep an eye on her to help protect her and make sure she doesn't make the same mistakes he did. He then loans her Ben Reillys old spider man suit and web shooters and that's how the series starts. This eventually ends with Peter's death as he sacrifices himself fighting morlun to protect his children during the middle of the spider verse storyline. Overall that's what I consider to be the final cannon chapter of the original spiderman run, him teaching and raising his kids after living a full life and having had a long and happy marriage with Mary jane.
I thought Peter retired in that timeline because he lost his leg no?
Will have a look at it. Thanks!
My canon is that he's old and killed Mary-Jane with his spider cum, spider cum, radioactive spider cum
@@v10fc92 Well, that too. If anything it just solidified his choice to hang up the webs and not be Spidey. Granted it's not Morlun this version of Peter dies fighting but rather his brother. But overall aside from that thing, which even some of the ones who created/worked on Spider-Girl said they didn't really view this version of her and her universe as the same one from the comics they worked on. And from what I understand he is brought back eventually in a later Spider-Verse event thing, involves a version of Max Dillon aka Electro who's actually rather smart teaming up with/using various other versions of him. Honestly it sound weird but it's true. Has a whole thing where a version of Uncle Ben who was Spider-Man of his Earth sacrifices his life to save the multiverse. And apparently brings back Spider-Girl's dad as well. So, yeah all that happened. I'd be happy to see Mayday and her world brought back, at least when there is a good chance of her being given a writer who actually cares about her world and those within it and doesn't screw things up. It's a fun little thing that includes things like having the Venom symbiote first break out and try to use Peter to kill his Daughter, only to eventually come back and help her with Normie Osborn, and towards the very end where Norman Osborn possesses Peter's mind (haven't read that story myself, but I bet it's a blast) even has the symbiote bond with her for a brief time to give her some much needed strength to get out of a tough situation, and ends up giving up it's own life to save Normie Osborn (who if you need a refresher is Harry's son). Kind of funny that, the symbiote has a sort of redemption story in a 'spin-off verse' that was written before the same thought was given mostly to the original host in the 'main verse'.
I’ll keep saying this: Spider-Man’s true ending is happy birthday. Peter goes through his past and finds his reason to keep on going after all of his adventures then basically leads the marvel superheroes to save the day and he gets to finally say goodbye to Uncle Ben. He also is truly happy. What more could you ask from a conclusion to this character?
This is a amazing point, I just wished Happy birthday came after Civil War/Back In Black. I just love those stories SO much and would be a dream come true to have a amazing conclusion like Happy Birthday to close things for his character.
Honestly my little headcanon mindset is to jump from that issue over to Mayday’s Spider-Girl storyline.
Actually the true ending for me is sensational spider man vol 2 annual 1 where Pete and MJ move forward despite everything that's happened to them after civil war....
Although the Ezekiel storyline was still unfinished at that point.
@@kaizoisevil yeah but Lowkey I didn’t care about that stuff
I think Linkara got it right when he reviewed this. Two things should've changed to improve the story. First, Mary Jane should've been shot, thus justifying why Mephisto offered the deal for the marriage to end and not let Peter choose between his aunt and wife. Second, Peter should have kept the memories of his old life to burden him instead of forgetting it all, which pushes him to try and hold true to his values as Spider-Man. That would make a lot of the stuff in the comic feel more realistic and tragic. But sometimes we overlook the simple stuff.
I think the "problem" with that from Marvel's perpective is that it would create the expectation of Peter and MJ getting back together at some point, since it would just serve as confirmation that MJ truly is the love of Peter's life, and someone that he would literally move mountains for in order to save if he had to. Plus a Peter who did all of this for MJ, and remembered everything about what they used to have, obviously would have no interest in dating anyone else. MJ would essentially be locked in as the true love interest for Spider-Man...Granted, she already is in the eyes of most fans, but Marvel is clearly in denial on that point. Since Peter doesn't remember anything, and willingly sacrificed his marriage for Aunt May, Marvel can pretend that this must mean MJ wasn't really THAT important to Peter's life, and since there are CLEARLY people he loves more, maybe that means MJ wasn't right for him after all and it's totally fine if he just dates other people. It's bullshit, and they had to write the characters completely out of character in order to justify this kind of logic, but Marvel will do anything at this point to keep Peter single and available.
Thats the part that really hit home why this story is bad. The no memory thing is just there so there are no long lasting consequences for Peter as a character no reflection no regrets. Compare that to the Champions where Miles made a deal with Mephisto he remembered doing it and realized that deal inadvertently got a little girl killed a little girl he previously saved. It tears miles apart and the drama is so fucking good why couldn't this story at least have that.
@@DevilHunter1994At this point, I wouldn’t even be surprised if they brought Gwen back and she was presented as Peter’s real soulmate
MJ getting shot happened in a What If...? of Back In Black. She dies, he kills Kingpin and the assassin and he then gets arrested.
It'll always bother me how Doctor Strange, Reed Richards, etc. could not help Peter. Those people mentioned are literally one of the most powerful heroes in the planet yet they can't revive Aunt May? That was genuinely PIS when feats like Doctor Strange defeating Dormammu time after time, and Reed Richards being the smartest man alive exist.
Reed could cure every disease and end all conflict across the world but he doesn't.
At least Doom is a blatant despot who wears his god complex on his sleeve.
@@concept5631 Doom would probably happily help Peter as soon as he said Reed couldn't dobot
I feel like what’s most damning is that DC has kinda proved Quesada wrong in two instances. Clark & Lois, but also Wally & Linda have pretty much become what Peter and MJ should be.
You say that, but they're doing the same thing to my boy Bruce and Selena. Batman is Dc's superstar to Marvel's spider man and he's getting the same treatment. Both companies have no problem with their respective Luigi's getting character development, but the cash cow can't ever change.
One more day is a beautifully written middle finger to Spider-Man
Hearing you speak on spideys values in part 2 was honestly pretty inspiring. I’ve been goin through it recently so the messages about moving forward from grief and guilt really hit home. Great vidya as always!
Fact
Those quotes from Joe Quesada at 35:04 to 35:40 really bug me, because they were already proven wrong, not just in the mainline series, but in Spider-Girl.
You’d be surprised, but it turns out that settling down and becoming a parent actually adds a lot more drama to Peter’s life. He’s constantly having to take care of his teenage daughter, getting into arguments with her over her duties as Spider-Girl, and even becomes the target of several villains as the series goes on.
Even when the focus isn’t on Peter, Spider-Girl has plenty of soap opera style drama. You’ve got May trying to balance her hero life and school life, the Parkers constantly debating if May should continue being Spider-Girl. There are even plots twists that reveal new family members out of nowhere, and that’s textbook soap opera material!
Marvel only knows one type of soap opera - breakups and hookups. You know, the stuff they have been doing for Spider-Man's last 15 years with all those love interests like Carlie Cooper, Lian Tang, Silk, Mockingbird, etc that were just so iconic and memorable. You know, the ones your grandchildren will remember as Spider-Man's most important relationships!
@@XwoooahX Forgot rhe other two I swr. Silk I remember cause her solo stuff is peak
@@rezonan3520 Yeah, I was being sarcastic. Silk is known for her solo stuff. Her relationship with Peter was brief and very dumb.
@@XwoooahX Slott should not write romance again
this video is actually the reason i decided to stop reading spiderman comics (and most comics in general), i read nick spencer's but i was extremely tired of them just resetting spidey, love him or hate him nick actually looked like he wanted to move the character forward but marvel doesn't want that and so they press the reset on spidey and im just tired of seeing a character grow just to 10-20 issues later be back or even worse than it started.
it's a big problem when a characters worse enemies aren't their villains but their writers.
Perfect video on the topic! I agree 100% that was the day Spider-Man died for me and really tone deaf to treat it as some type of celebration on Marvel's part. One thing to add about bringing back the "soap opera" of the 60/70s is that it CANNOT be reproduced in the same way. That was a unique time because Spider-Man did not have a "true love" defined at the time. Gwen was sort of pictured that way, but never close to the level of MJ with the marriage, and she died after only dating Peter a few years. However, after the 20 years of marriage, One More Day, sets up the expectation to the readers that Peter and MJ have an eternal true love and are destined to reunite one day and be together again. If not, evil wins. This completely undermines any attempt to make Peter's single life compelling as it was in the 60/70s. Fans are literally just waiting for Peter and MJ to get back together and every other love interest feels like a temporary setback to that goal. So Joe Quesada did not restore the classic Spider-Man back at all, what he did was setup an extremely frustrating and toxic environment for Spider-Man fandom going forward where what everyone wants can never happen.
The end of Spencer's run also solidifies that Peter and Mj will get back together and have a child that will defeat Mephisto...so readers don't have to care if MJ stays with Paul or if Peter and Felicia work out long-term, that ending is what readers will keep paying to see and everything else is just a short-term distraction
Marvel fire dan slot zeb wells fix on more day
Yep. That's why I call BS on the 'problem' Marvel has been having for the past few decades on Spidey's Growth. It's not that they CAN NOT allow Spidey to grow and evolve. It's that they DECIDE that he can not evolve. In other words, it's not that they can't let him grow, but refuse to let him grow. And how is that a bad thing? For one thing I think letting peter grow up and actually have a life would be a good thing. Get him married with Mary Jane to at least end the constant 'will they? won't they?' that people are getting sick and tired of. And if people are wanting a younger and newer Spider-Man, well guess what, we have Miles Morales! Sure there are many criticisms to be had on how his character has been handled and I have a lot of them myself. But if they want Miles to stand out as his own Spider-Man, having Peter grow up and eventually retire as Spidey while Miles carries it on would be a good way to do so! But most importantly make it feel EARNED! And give a good reason WHY it should be done. Which brings me to my next point. Let him be a Dad! It's not like people don't like dad characters in Media. I mean, God of War anyone? And no, I'm not talking about the version of him from the Norse-era of games going on right now. He was as much of a dad in the Greek Era, for crying out loud part of the REASON why he went on a roaring rampage of revenge is because he wished to avenge his WIFE and DAUGHTER! The fact he has an adoptive son now just makes it clear to anyone who can't read subtext that yeah he is a dad and is good as one. Peter could be an awesome dad as well! The Spider-Girl comics, main character being May 'Mayday' Parker, the daughter of Spider-Man, shows how he is as a dad in a decent enough way. If people can't understand that this can allow for interesting stories even now. I don't know what will...
Spider-Man PS4 somehow did what Marvel somehow couldn’t do and allowed Peter to grow up. Somehow he’s grown past the original comic version.
Some fucking how.
(SPOILERS):
"I don't know what to do."
"Yes, you do."
If that doesn't sum up the difference between One More Day and Spider-Man PS4...
Peter B. Parker from ITSV has grown past the original comic version already too while not even being the main fucking character/Spider-Man of the movie 🤣😭
@@v10fc92 Exactly. Dude has a kid and a wife, comics Peter meanwhile gets cucked by some rando named Paul.
Thank you Alex, you’ve been saying what we’ve all been saying since we heard Marvel saying they were gonna do this saying that it was gonna fix stuff but really saying they don’t care about character growth. SAYING-
As someone who doesn't read the comics, but considers themself a pretty big Spider-Man fan after growing up on numerous movies and animated series, thank you for these videos. I've gotten a much deeper understanding and appreciation of these characters through your work :)
0:30 I’m sorry but… Dr. Doom would’ve figured out a way to save her no matter what. Not because he likes Peter or does it out of nobility, but purely because Reed couldn’t do it, and he has to prove that he can save an old woman when Reed can’t.
And to screw with Mephisto, he has the reason and motive to do so. Why? Because said Demon had held his mother's soul hostage. Even if his Mother is at peace (I think? Comics aren't easy to keep track of this stuff). The fact that Mephisto is trying to do something like it to someone else. Much less a foe that he has faced on occasion, cause I wouldn't be surprised if Doom and Peter had fought a few times at the very least, and could have a modicum of respect, nothing that would really be obvious and pales in comparison to the view he has regarding Reed. Point is Doom would do it both to show up Reed, but also to spite Mephisto, like "You will not ruin another man's life so easily Demon. Especially not if Doom has anything to say about it!" Honestly, I kind of thing that would be in character for him to say and do. Granted I'm not a serious FF fan, much less all that versed on Doom either.
@@dliatsos1 No this sounds about right. Doom is so petty he would help Peter just to spite the two people he hates most (Reed and Mephisto.)
Ah, the glory of pettyness.
Adding to the conversation here you're 100% right that technically peter isn't to blame for the robber getting away. However I believe he blames himself not just because he actually had the power to do so, but because I think in parallel to the real world we as humans look back at loved ones we've lost and think "what could I have done?" I had lost my father when I was 9-10 years old and for a good 5 years after that I always asked myself "could I have done something?" Even though I was just a kid who had no control over something like that. I blamed Myself constantly even though my Mom always reassured me that wasn't true.
Now full disclosure I've LOVED Spider-Man since I was 3 but I think that point in my life is where I truly felt the most like him, he's always kinda been this fictional big brother to me. To be that light in the dark. Sorry to get all sappy but that's the best way I can describe why he's so important to me personally, also to reinforce why I too hate ONE MORE DAY.
Sorry, you're brother's out fuckin' bitches he doesn't know because the spider that bit him also bit her
No Way Home exectutes the Peter Reset so much better than One More Day. Peter wishes that nobody remembers he was spider-man, but because of his own hastiness and failure to properly express what he ACTUALLY means, that everyone he hasnt told HIMSELF he's Spider-Man should forget, he puts the universe at risk. I find the reason WHY he wishes for this to be a lot better that OMD. He does it not simply for himself (although there definitely is some selfishness there), but because he's afraid that people will harm the his loved ones because of their affiliation with him. And the irony is, it's this very wish that kills Aunt May. If he hadnt gone to Strange to make this wish, May would have lived. But the wish also SAVES him from making the same mistake OMD Peter makes. Because of everything going wrong, because Gobbie killed May, Peter is able to meet the other Peters and not completely crumble. Because who knows Peter better than himselves?
And at the end of everything, after he is helped to quell his rage at Norman and cures him, what does he do? He sacrifices everything he has not out of selfishness, but because it's the right thing to do here. He even gets to remember, so it's not a permanent loss!
And he goes to MJ and Ned to fufill his promise to meet back up with them, but his self doubt kicks in looking at MJ (i think she had a wound from the final fight, i dont remember clearly) because he thinks she will just continue to be hurt by him. So, he chooses to stay out of her life for now. The reason I say for now is because of the necklace Peter gave to MJ. That she still wears AFTER the reset, when it should have no value to her. It's a sign that MJ remembers him deep down, and its a sort of promise that things will eventually be that net positive. TLDR, NWH takes OMD's ass story and makes it a crossover event that actually remains consistent with Peter's character.
Basically NWH actually grows his character not assassinated it
@@v10fc92 exactly, NWH turns him from Spider-Boy to Spider-Man whereas after OMD he turns from Spider-Man to Spider-Manchild
lmao no, no way home lowkey sucks just as bad and people only like it bc of nostalgia pandering
@@yourehereforthatarentyou OK
funny how the film Is kinda "meh" but in the end it can do something good
I wonder what would have happened if the writing team decided to stick with Stan Lee's example of a natural progression for Peter's life and eventually decided to make his kids and grandkids adopt the Spiderman name.
If only Stan Lee has an understudy 😭
You could have very interesting story lines where a 50+ year-old Peter still thinks he can be a superhero, and his kid has to save him.
Stuff like this is why I get so dumbfounded that people are so against they did at Peter retires and gets to have a family and let's one of the other spider takeover forebet, like like Myles or Miguel when he was stuck in the past, silk or anyone
There is a comic sort of like that. Peters daughter becomes Spidergirl in that one
We would have had Mayday and Annie be spider women by the 90s
One More Day ultimately became the reason I stopped reading comics. It was the last series I read and being a Spidey fan since I was a kid I felt betrayed by the undoing of his story told the last few decades.
Seems like the popularity of the character prevents him from being able progress the way other characters have over the years unless it’s in a one shot or GN.
That character was finally married and that gave opportunities to explore other challenges in life besides crime fighting so to undo all of that felt like a genuine disservice to the character and the fans.
I feel one more day would've been one of the best Spiderman stories if Peter made the right decision and moved forward with his life and MJ. Also the scene with The One Above All was pretty special to make Peter understand his impact on the world.
It's extremely sad what marvel is doing to spiderman and I don't think his treatment will change.
Alex lennen is the only UA-camr that really understands comics and the meaning behind characters like Spider-Man
watch Comics Explained
@@jonahlk6386 isn't that the guy that just narrates a bunch of the comics?
@@capnbug no that’s comicstorian
@@jonahlk6386 I thought comics explained just gives very generic wiki summaries of stories. Did their content change or smth?
@@capnbug he does that mostly but sometimes he’ll explain themes of the stories and character morality
Welcome back dude! I've been looking forward to a new Spider-Man video and the fact that it's on this topic makes me so damn happy!! THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO! Peter and MJ is the greatest, most iconic couple in all of comics, and I'm so so glad that there are others out there (like you) who feel the same way
Something about your video essay style is so compelling, I've never even read a comic but I get legitimately excited to see you've uploaded! Great work!
Don't know if you'll ever even see this comment. But this video, legitimately made me cry. I lost my dad in 2019. and you talking about how grief makes you appreciate what you have, that you didn't even realize when you had it. I couldn't keep myself together. All in all, though, grief and loss has helped shape me into the person I am now. It's never easy but in the long run it's needed, it's good for you. And that's what makes me so upset about one more day, instead of having Peter take the easy and worse way out and having some kind of payout at the end to reverse it or even just make it less bad, or have him take the hard way out like he actually would and dealing with that burden to shape him into a better person. It just ends with him making the childish decision and getting out the easy way.
That New Spider-Man issue was a kick in the balls
So glad you focused on how disrespectful and unfair this story was to MJ, because I feel that gets glossed over a lot when people talk about why it's so terrible. She's the second most important character in all of Spider-Man besides Peter himself, and the way OMD just sacrifices her to the literal devil for the sake of Peter's manpain is absolutely infuriating.
Honestly I wouldn’t call it man pain. It’s just incredibly out of character.
Suberbly articulated. I can barely look at comic Spider-Man anymore. Just a betrayal on a fundamental, thematic level.
Hear me out, Marvel: *Two More Days*
Then the underrated sequel, Three More Days
then the fourth sequel 4 more days
You forgot about 5 more day
Six
7???
To add insult to injury, Peter is also getting beat to near death by a villian he's tangled with(hell even shrugs off sometimes with no effort) for decades...and needs a suit to be on even level with him.
Just shows how shit the writer is
I'll forever hate OMD not only because of the massive retcon but because it made me see the actual action of Aunt Mays death as a good thing
It only hit me with Insomniacs game, I did feel the ending was heartwrenching but there was a part of me that was genuinely glad to see Aunt May die because of my reaction to OMD, not because of I hate her but because I felt it was in spite of OMD.
I love Aunt May so the realization that I was genuinely celebrating her death was a moment of introspective that really made me realize how much OMD shaped my view of Spider-man stories as a whole and it's made me realize that I basically automatically approach them from a negative view point now.
Seeing the panel again of Aunt May being told why Peter does what he does and her putting the pieces together and nearly breaking down at the realization that Peter has been blaming himself for 10 years was such a harrowing moment because it reminded me of how much I love Aunt Mays character.
I think the real reason I hate OMD so much is that I know for a fact that Aunt May would hate it too, it would utterly destroy her to know that Peter gave up literally everything for her, it's a story that truly tramples on everything May represents to me.
This video essay highlights why I like Miles Morales so much. Not only is he a great Spider-Man, he’s a new Spider-Man that can learn and grow over time, and we can grow with him. We don’t need a Zombie Spider-Man remarrying MJ and re-entering college every 5 years, we have Miles Morales.
When they killed their baby off I checked out. I knew the comic was over.
I ended up writing my own head canon where Ben and Peter both existed and shared the load as Scarlet Spider and SM respectively.
Peter ends up having a couple of kids, and the entire story becomes one of trying to protect his kids and raise them right while Ben takes on more and more of the burden.
That's when Spider-Gwen showed up and Ben falls for her and puts their arrangement under pressure as Peter could no longer let Ben take on all of the responsibility of protecting New York. The two family are torn apart when Peter loses his third kid due to Ben failing to stop a villain and Peter would make his son grow distant because of his behavior towards his uncle Ben. The drama would pass on to his kids.
The virgin Peter Parker
-never learns from experiences
-whines about how nothing changes
-sacrificed his marriage and future for his octogenarian constantly sick aunt who would have told him not to do it.
-made a deal with Satan
The chad Clark Kent
-Never made a deal with the devil, literal or otherwise.
-learns from his mistakes
-happy with his wife and child
-always tries to be optimistic
It’s honestly a blessing that we have Insomniac’s version of Spider-Man because he shows the growth that 616 Peter has needed since One More Day ruined him and Mary Jane. It’s at a point where I see Insomniac Peter is the canonical Peter Parker we deserved
At least we have the Spider-Girl comics, or Renew Your Vows, or 2009's "Real Clone Saga" and the recent Lost Hunt...all stories which demonstrate Marvel haven't entirely forgotten how to write the kind of Peter and MJ we want to read. All of them are pretty good endings for Peter, Spider-Girl in particular. I don't think Spider-Man's strengths truly lie in the ability to last forever as a story, he's the hero that could be us, but we as a people have finite stories.
You know, it would be cool if someone makes a comic where someone realizes that Peter is stuck is his sick version of the goundhog day, making him stuck as a young adult while everyone else is growing up, and goes to fight Mephisto to get Peter's life back, because it is awful to see every other character not only grow physically but also emotionally as characters with proper developments and Peter is out there studying for the same science exam for college a 10th year in a row while balancing his freelance photographer gig to pay an exhorbitant rent for a walk-in closet in modern day New York living as a spinster
Peter will never get that W. Everytime something good happens to him the writers are afraid that he might lose his "relatability" and plunge him back down. He can't keep a family. He can't keep a stable life, and he can't even have a girlfriend. As if the writers think their audience is a bunch of bums that never progress in life so they keep Peter down so they can "relate" to him.
I love your videos man really, I recently lost my dear grandpa and the bit where you talked about grief it gave me comfort in a weird way, thank you
Alex you explaining Peter’s fall from grace is like Peter losing his innocence. Oh wait
This story, to this day singlehandedly made me stop reading anything Spider-Man related that's in the main continuity.
Every time they have Peter talk about 'with great power comes great responsibility' after this, I physically cringe. This version of Peter made the single most selfish, irresponsible choice you could possibly make, and is rewarded for it by having his mind wiped. That they have the gall to still have him talk about great responsibility after that actually makes me sick.
Not only that, but the story itself is just so unbelievably contrived. You're telling me Dr. Strange, Reed Richards, fucking Dr. Doom, none of them can heal a bullet wound? Dr. Doom, the guy who went to hell to save his mom and succeeded, the guy who fought The Beyonder and won, even without his body functioning, that guy can't heal a bullet wound? In another story, Peter literally communes with Aunt May's spirit, who tells him to let her go and that she's lived a good life.
Like, this is the absolute worst of corporate storytelling. There is no logical in-story reason for anything to happen, it just happens because...it has to happen, that's it.
It's also interesting to me how other Spider-Man media has seemingly deliberately commented and ripped on this story for how bad it is. The PS4 game has Peter making the exact opposite choice. He chooses to let Aunt May die, to save everyone else, that's on point. No Way Home has him still losing his relationship with MJ, but he does it to undo his own mistakes and to save everyone else, that's on point. We can have MCU Spider-Man be in-character and make tough choices, we can have video game Spider-Man doing it, but not the main Spider-Man in the comics I guess...fuck me.
Doom should've said "why the fuck should I help you?"
To which Peter should have responded "well Mephisto wants to make a deal and Reed couldn't do it so-"
And Doom says "I will make her young and healthy again, she will never want for water, sustenance, nutrition, she will become a god, and all I need is for Richards to know I did what he couldn't."
"If you pretend to be something everyday of your life until the end of your life even when no one is looking, that's not pretending." -A Wandering Knight
I'm pretty sure Aunt May would Purse Slap Peter to oblivion if she found out he chose her to no be united with Ben in heaven and costing him his daughter!
One thing is that Nick Spencer was so close to showing OMD was wrong, his first arc was showing Peter how he was being irresponsible for a while, doctor strange noticing there is something wrong with Peter's soul, and mainly Kindred being all about Peter "confessing his sins" until towards the end of run suddenly he is all about Norman (pretty clear it's due to editorial interference) it's so frustrating that we were so close to getting Spider-Man fixed and then the editorial ruined it again and now we have another character destruction run under Nick Lowe
I KNOW! I was really disappointed in the shift after Last Remains. Something changed because it was all about Peter's sin making Kindred who he is with actual panels from One More Day being shown, then at the end they dropped that completely and it was suddenly about a deal with Norman and Mephisto instead. It was so awkward to have big finale with Mephisto and Spider-Man at the end and the whole issue with Peter's soul and the deal was sidelined.
@@XwoooahX true, it's so frustrating to know how close we got
I’m currently reading the Spider-Man Lost Hunt comic that’s currently going on, and it makes me wish I was into comics during the time Peter and MJ were married because their bond and relationship in the comic is honestly the most endearing and overall best part of the story.
I’m not really the biggest fan of the MCU Spider-Man, and it my opinion it’s probably the worst of the 3 live action adaptations (that’s not to say it’s bad), but what I will say is No Way Home’s adaptation of One More Day is by far an improvement on the original.
Yeah I was there when JM DeMatteis was writing the main 616 Spider-Man when I first started and it really brings me back. It was easily my favorite aspect of the comics and one of the reasons I stuck around for so long up until OMD with the character was seeing the relationship continue between Peter and his wife.
The points you mention are the exact reason why I stopped reading 616 and will always remember Ultimate Spider-Man very fondly. Although ultimate Peter had a very short run, he was able to grow as a person and also develop his relationships with his loved ones. He at least died fulfilling his purpose of protecting May, Gwen and MJ. Meanwhile 616 Peter is a 30 something manchild with no trajectory in life, gets beaten to a pulp by the likes of Vulture, and to top it all off, he's working under Norman... talk about being pathetic...
In my opinion, Joe Quesada, despite caring for the character, greatly misunderstood the things Spider-Man represented for most readers. That goes double for modern-day fans of the wall crawler. It wasn't just relatability that drew people to Spider-Man. And it certainly never was the endless misery he seems to think makes good storytelling. It was the philosophy of accepting responsibility for one's self, the drive to push forward despite hardships, and understanding changes in one's life, for better or worse. That's what made Peter Parker a hero to me. And this is why One More Day is forever a stain on his name as Spider-man.
Joe quesada not good spider man
Hope you covered the newest run in this video. Peter has never been this down before in his life smh.
They literally robbed Peter to pay Paul
Spider-Man editorial give their characters meaningful development instead of retreading old and busted storylines for the thousandth fucking time challenge (Impossible)
I have genuinely never felt more honestly seen and understood. You put my rage and bitterness and sorrow into words I could never articulate myself. I appreciate you so much.
Dude, I am so entertained by your retrospectives on Spiderman. I would love to see you do it on another long-running character like Spawn or maybe Moonknight.....
You know, after reading the Nick Spencer run it makes me mad that Marvel doesn’t let Peter be happy. It could have worked too, going back to the clone saga, maybe instead of Ben dying it’s Kaine that dies having a change of heart and Peter and MJ actually have a kid with Ben being there too. This Marvel can have their single Peter and have Peter who grew up at the same time. Now I’m not saying having Peter’s daughter should be a teen and him being in his 50s but having her be around 4-6 would be a good status quo for the comics. It’s a shame to see everyone around Peter grow up get married and have kids (Eddie, Deadpool, Harry) but Peter is still single at 29. Hopefully things will get better
YESSSS! Took what I wanted to say and made it sound so much better.
The fact that the 616 stand-in for Peter in the upcoming Spider-Verse film has him being a dad to a kid he has with Mary Jane. I can't help but feel like they seriously are out of touch with what people actually want. Honestly, I'd be willing to watch it if for no other reason than to get moments where that Peter and his Daughter can be just happy together. Unlikely given how the plot of the film is focused around Miles and probably other Spider's, but it'd be nice to at least give some attention to all of that. Plus if people start clamoring for it in other forms of media, then maybe one day. We'll actually see an event where 616 Peter get's to be happy, to have a life with Mary Jane and get to be a dad.
@@dliatsos1marvel editors don’t look at what most fans want. They Base it off sales, if people stop buying the comics then they’ll look at what we want cause they’ll have no other choice
@@parkerramsbottom If it were two decades ago, sure. As it is now, not even a drop in sales would be enough to give them a reason to change the approach they are using at the moment. They simply do not care unless they will actually get fired from their jobs, assuming even that occurs.
@@dliatsos1 even if the editorial team doesn’t care, someone higher up will. Zeb isn’t writing this bad for no reason, he’s written other stories that were good. A big change will come sooner than later, Spider-Man is marvels work horse. If that isn’t doing good someone will step in
This is a beautiful analysis and a good slap in the face to the same self-doubt and responsibility shown by the Flash/ Barry Allan on the CW
Great video! I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too, especially after I checked out JMS’ early stuff and compared it to parts of the current run of Spider-Man. The stories lack much needed growth and tbh maturity of the main character. 10/10
I feel like I’ve been waiting for this video forever- and it was worth it. Your videos are incredible Alex. Can’t wait to see more this year.
Honestly it's so simple on how to evolve spider-man.
Let him be happy. Let him have kids. Let us see how he deals with being a father. And, in a few years, those kid(s) could be their own heroes. A new Spider-man for a new generation.
"They'd give their own mother's funeral a 10" is one of the funniest IGN lines I've ever heard
It's really bizarre how Peter and Eddie were at the same age when Eddie was introduced and now Eddie is a father of a teenager while Peter isn't even married
Sad that spencer could not fix one more day(because the editorial) , its true the Kindred thing was unnecessary long, but he did showed hints that make me believe he really understand how bad the status quo of Peter is.
And thankyu for this video, this video is better than what the editorial of spider-man has been doing with him for quite time
The reason why OMD "ruined" Spider-Man, and hero comics in genera, for me at least, is not because it's bad, it's because it pulled the curtains back, and revealed that we are stuck in a hamster wheel, and that there will never be any real progression. It showed that the moment something interesting develops, the moment we get too far from the starting point of Peter Parker, he (and us readers) will be pulled right back to that safe Issue #1, with his life fucked up all over again.
And just like I said, this isn't just a Spider-Man thing, it's a comic book thing.
Really thought it would stick after 20 years though. One of the longest running status quos that was eventually undone that I know of. It also was like 600-700 issues over that time considering all the satellite books that were running in parallel with ASM during Spidey's marriage. It was a LOT to undo, and the comics were at their highest selling during the period he was married in the early 90s... so it had lot of exposure to comic readers, like 5 times more than the comic readership today.
What a wonderfully put video. Good job Alex for putting into words what I have been thinking for the longest time.
People ask why everyone gets so pressed about this storyline, that it's not that bad, that Peter Parker is human and makes mistakes. And to that I say... This story doesn't suck because Peter sold his soul to the devil, this story sucks because Peter forgot that "With great power there must also come great responsibility".
Spider man sacrificed his unborn daughter so that he could save his already old and dying Aunt. Peter and MJ were a happily married couple, whose love had survived everything short of a nuclear winter, and yet he decided to sacrifice their love and their unborn child to save an old woman who's had more than enough time on this planet. And again, they agree to this deal with Mephisto. One More Day is the story of how Peter Parker makes a deal with the devil. Just to reiterate, Peter Parker makes a deal with the devil and sacrifices MJ and his future daughter because Joe Quesada said so. There is no ulteriore motive, it was just the writer's choice and that's it. No plot relevance, no nothing. Peter fucking Parker makes a deal with the FUCKING devil. Having Spider-Man deal with magic or mysticism would be like Dr. Strange having to stop a nuclear meltdown with a screwdriver and a yardstick.
"One More Day" is a blatant attempt to breakup Peter Parker and Mary Jane for no logical reason. Instead of constructing plot points around a narrative or structured story, as most good stories are, "One More Day" is a story that was crafted around one particular action, and was created to simply serve as a narrative to that one plot point. In fact, it's so distasteful of a story that its pungency seeps into the exceptional Civil War story arc preceding it. Many parts of Civil War, like Aunt May getting shot, and Spider-Man going on the lam, seem to only serve the purpose of moving the pieces into place for "One More Day".
But my biggest anger-point, somehow even angrier than what precedes it, is the fact that this comic gets the whole character completely wrong. The entire allure of Peter Parker is that he's a regular guy, someone people can relate to. He has financial problems, his love life isn't to be envied, and he gets into arguments with friends and family. Joe Quesada must have forgotten that normal people don't make Faustian pacts, or sacrifice their eternal love for someone else. Most people even accept the passing of an elderly loved one. But because he didn't like a married Peter Parker, the decision was made to break up Marvel's premier couple in the cheapest, sleaziest way possible. Not only is "One More Day" the most insulting Spider-Man story ever written, it was conceived for all the wrong reasons.
I've loved Spider-Man for as long as I can remember, and loving Spider-Man implies loving Peter Parker. You can't have one without the other, which is why this story is so fuckin' idiotic. Peter Parker is an incredible and revolutionary character because he's human, because he's us! Because, in HIS WORDS in Amazing Spider-Man #50, "Now, at last, it's all crystal clear to me once more! I can never renounce my Spider-Man identity. I can never fail to use the powers which a mysterious destiny has seen fit to give me! No matter how unbearable the burden may be-- No matter how great my personal sacrifice. I can never permit one innocent being to come to harm because Spider-Man failed to act. And I swear that I never will!".
I've read every single run of Spider-Man over the years. You mention a comic, I've read it. I love the character whether it's in movies, in comics, in videogames or in shows. And the reason I love Spider-Man isn't because he looks cool while fighting, it's because I can relate to Peter Parker to an absurd level. It's because Spidey has shown me that it's okay to face problems, it's okay to hurt and it's okay to be different. As long as you do everything in your power to do good, you will live a life worth remembering. Because everyone has a duty to do what's right, no matter how much it hurts. And even if you hurt, there's always gonna be a way up.
I've lost people I loved, and no matter what, I cannot have them back. But what I can do... Is move forward. Just like Peter has always done. Because that's who Peter Parker is. Not a Spider-Man... But simply a man. And that's not who he is in One More Day. That's what makes it the greatest insult to any intellectual property EVER.
Loved this. I'm a massive Spidey fan, but I haven't a chance to read the comics, so when someone explains stuff from the comics, it makes my day, especially if it's Alex
Babe wake up, a new Alex Lennen video
It’s time!!!⏰🕰️
Real
The goat is back
SO TRUE
My babe didn’t wake up :(
Pre-One More Day Peter was the perfect jumping off point for his future character development. Stories like Spider-Verse, 2015's Secret Wars, heck even Dark Web, would be better when experienced through the lenses of a Peter Parker who refused the deal with the literal Devil, the Peter Parker who's a family man, whose character has been tested and is the better for it. Heck, they even now have Miles as the teenage Spider-Man. He's literally the perfect vehicle if Marvel wants to do teenage-drama style of Spider-Man stories. Miles could've been that, while Peter gets more adult-oriented stories where he grows the fuck up. Like, c'mon... it's pretty much written on the walls...
It's why I'm really hopeful for Insomniac's Marvel universe, as that seems to be the direction they're taking their Spider-Man story. I'm still waiting if they'll nail Wolverine and the rest of the X-Men in that universe, but I'm sure it'll at least be good. Cyclops needs to get some good representation in media outside the comics. As much as I have a soft spot for Fox's X-Men universe, I've always hated how Cyclops is treated as Wolverine's punching bag in that continuity(ies).
And hopefully bring them back to people who don't think Mutant's need to live in their own separate world apart from the rest of humanity. All I've heard about from the most recent run's have them basically split themselves off from the rest of humanity 'for the greater good'. Uh huh, you expect me to believe that doing such BS which Magneto had originally desired is somehow the better option? Not to mention all the 'ExPaNsIoN' they have done to Moria McTaggart, even if I ain't an X-Men fan. I don't see how making her into whatever she is currently is somehow 'good'. Granted it could be because I always figured the idea of Mutants and Human's getting along and just being the same old group of people rather than separate things was the right way to solve the 'issue' of Mutant's in wider society. Treat them as Individuals, not as part of some group. There are normal human's who are assholes just as there are Mutant's who are assholes. Them being of one group or the other does not change the fact they are an asshole. A fact that sadly seems ignored and outright disdained by people today, whichever aspect you wish to apply of that as you will.
Marvel, please let Spider-Man have it easy, he's suffered enough. I'd buy a story where everything is right in Peter's life as he goes to buy milk or something lmao.
Joe Quesada's quotes definitely don't come off like preservation for a character, you can't keep the same stories going on and on I really do love the 60's and 70's era of the comics but if all Spider-Man stories were that era there's no variety no risk, no point. Having him age and go through his college years and get married even though it was a little rushed it got Peter out of that kid mentality.
You can't just keep things in the same era because it'll "keep new fans coming"
Some of the best Spider-Man stories or when he's a little older imo. When he's finally reached a point in his life where the balance is second nature.
Take for instance the insomniac game. he's 23 years old he has his dream job of being a scientist, he's honed his powers.
And yet it still feels just as Spider-Man as those classic stories.
it’s insane how many subs the channel already has. but they’re well deserved the vids are great ❤️
Watching these videos is almost therapeutic and it’s helped me a lot with my journey in wanting to write a story
Honestly, Gwen effectively being alive again angers me more than OMD.
The idea that having a family inhibits drama betrays the existence of the Allen family (the Flash). Shit was never more wild than when Bart and Impulse joined the crew.
This video gets a like from me not only for articulating what is wrong with One More Day, but also the hidden depth of Mary Jane during her “airhead” era. I also really love that Parallel Lives retconned her knowing Spider-Man’s secret identity since Amazing Fantasy 15 and not only doesn’t contradict anything from that time, but allows for a reinterpretation of just about every moment from her as either a front , surreptitiously covering for Peter, or simply being much deeper than initially thought. Obviously it wasn’t part of any grand plan, it’s merely an incredible coincidence, but it’s why I simply love MJ’s story.
It’s also why I hate interpretations that fail to realize that depth and to make her “plain Jane” because “there’s no way a supermodel like MJ would end up with a dork like Peter”, which really means “there’s no way supermodel MJ has any depth or real character to her”. If you simply don’t want supermodel MJ, then give Peter another love interest. Don’t make MJ a reporter simply because you don’t think people will know Betty Brant. Don’t make her a high school overachiever when you have a plethora of other characters from Peter’s past, or simply make up a new character.
We don’t joke about New Jersey
The worst part of that story is that somehow no one was able to help Peter. Not even doctor strange with his Magic was able to heal a shot wound
Glad you made this video. Especially since Marvel just had Peter say he loves MJ as a sister. It’s insulting to everyone
I think one of the top comments also said that but one of the replies said that was taken out of context
Listen there are problems with the most recent run but taking that one quote completely out of context, even out of context of the literal rest of the page that it's on is just dishonest and stupid. Peter was trying to explain to Black Cat who was his current girlfriend why he definitely wasn't with MJ currently, he made up some BS excuses including that one, and Felicia immediately calls him out for it and says that it's absurd.
Please stop parroting disinformation. Peter never said that seriously. Just stop.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Dude even in context it’s still insulting. This whole breaking them up should have never happen
At the current rate of Spider-Man comics, a Spider-Man comic run written by Go Nagai would put him through less hell than Marvel Editorial.
Maybe this could be spun in a way that Mephisto created a world where Spider-man was unable to move on from all those deaths that happened and they kept weighing on him, making him less effective as a hero and clouding his judgment and all of this leads to a huge tragedy affecting many people, because of Spider-man and the only way for him to fix this is to break the deal he made with Mephisto and let aunt May die.
Zeb Wells Spider-Man run is probably the worst thing I’ve ever seen in comic book history.
The way I always interpreted Spidey's origin story was not that any normal person should have stopped the thief but that because he easily could have was the issue.
Especially after learning about Steve Ditko's, um... interesting, ideologies on individualism and personal execeptionalism it makes perfect sense that Spiderman should have stopped him.
The cop didn't know but Peter knew and he still didn't live up to his potential. And now how the responsibility to use that power to prevent things like that in the future.
Which kind of recontextializes One More Day in a sense. That Peter had to make that sacrifice to be the best Spiderman he could be to get his secret identity back and save Aunt May.
Because he can fix it and his marriage to MJ isn't as important as reaching his superhero potential and righting a wrong he inadvertently caused.
Not defending it as Peter had grown far past Ditko's interjections and became much more about self sacrifice and sentimentality, as well as the actual lead up to the decision portrays it very different than this, but just interesting if you think about it.
I know it’s really simple and isn’t covered in lights, but I love your setup so much. I have so much stuff in my room and I’ve been trying to experiment with my own setup and I just can’t get it right.
I live in the apartment from Spider-Man 2 so this was the only part of my room that wasn't falling apart. Literally no thought put into it. Don't overthink, be honest!
great analysis as always! I think the problem brought up in this video is a symptom of a *bigger* issue. that issue being how art can seemingly no longer be finite, it must ALWAYS be in production. like if they ended the spider-man comics, they would never gain the same traction as with a different IP.
i think that sort of thinking is a self-fulfilling process, where since people *expect* Marvel to release infinite amount of spider-man material, there is no room to let character peter parker die (permanently) or retire. it’s the nature of how business like this works: who cares where this character is going, who cares if this idea was bad, we MUST secure the infinite future of spider-man. whether that is a good sacrifice or not, is your decision.
the only thing holding mainstream comics from being the best it could be is the fear of change