Hate to say it, but the Epilogue in its current state just feels like a side-thought. John's look is what bothers me the most of course. The fact that there's no way to ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE JOHN MARSTON WHILE PLAYING AS JOHN MARSTON always pisses me off. It's funny, in my first playthrough of RDR2, as a huge RDR1 fanboy, once I heard you played as John in the epilogue, I absolutely BUMRUSHED the story so I could play as him. Now, in my current and likely final, 100% playthrough, I am absolutely dreading reaching the epilogue and am completing absolutely EVERYTHING that I possibly can as Arthur. Simply because I know playing as Johnther Morgston is gonna absolutely shred my immersion this time around. John's appearance aside? The epilogue as a concept had the potential to be the ultimate 'game after the game'. Imagine being able to properly care for the ranch beyond the shallow chore system. Being able to bathe, potentially receive haircuts from Abigail, contribute to meal recipes, and craft certain upgrades all at beecher'a hope would've made it the "Ultimate Camp" so to speak. Like another in-game reward for reaching the end of your journey and finally settling down as John Marston. While I fucking love Beecher's Hope, I can't help but to find that it feels kinda empty and shallow after awhile. I understand that the Epilogue was apparently developed under a massive time-crunch. But it saddens me that Rockstar was never willing to go in and tweak some stuff or potentially add some content. If Rockstar's online modes can recieve sm content in the form of updates, why can't singleplayer? That, along with the lack of story DLC just goes to show that once the singleplayer is released nowadays, that's pretty much it, that's all we get. No more potentially great experiences like Undead Nightmare or the GTA IV DLCs, those days are gone :( Something goes under-developed and didn't get the attention it deserved? Oh well, Rockstar can't milk massive profit off of it, so it's stuck that way forever. Rockstar is just so damn good at crafting singleplayer experiences, but we're at the point where we're only getting that sorta content for their major releases. And at this point, we're having to wait a decade (maybe more) between each one lmao
Thats cause all that kids care about nowadays is an online mode.. And the only thing developers care about is money.. Rockstar saw that there is more potential in gta online and let rdr2 completely out.. Its sad but true
@@maksvostochny bro, you mean Rockstar saw that there is huge potential in GTA online Kid's fan base to burn hard earned money of their parents, and than on other hand mature fan base of the RDR2 who knows that wasting their money on online every in game item is just stupidity. But thank God Rockstar learned their lesson and decided that RDR3 comes without online mode and they also said that their main focus on Singleplayer story mode with more missions and DLCs
The fact Is, besides all it's flaws i loved playing the epilogue. It sucks out all the tension, it's almost like being teleported in another dimension.
@@RebornVengeance7 he has Arthur's body, Arthur facial shape, Artthur's beard and hair system and so on. Most of this things are already there in 1.0, but you can fix some
Yeah. Despite how empty and quiet the world sounds without Arthur, I genuinely enjoyed dozens of hours just roaming around the map and taking in the scenery without having to worry about Micah or Dutch or Pinkertons.
The fact that the game literally ends with John and Abigail standing on where their graves will be was phenomenonal. It really hammers home Arthur's message that revenge is a fools game, and leads into RDR1 fantastically. Prefect ending in my opinion.
It's still annoying though that they didn't bother to fix John or add more content to RDR1's map through patches, like you said. They largely abandoned story mode after launch and only introduced more problems to it.
They kept patching fun glitches like the Bronte glitch (still works but they nerfed it massively) and completely abandoned some annoying ones like arthur's beard not connecting Also they should have added some way to remove the NA sniper on your second playthrough or something after we complete epilogue 2 so that we get to experience the story the way they want us to and then do it however we like And I'm sure milking GTA online is more profitable but come on at least don't patch the good gitches 😂😂
@@morjam4265 That's why I think Rockstar games, especially RDR2, would benefit from a new gameplay+ mode. It'd allow us to experience the whole game unlimited without these odd constraints Rockstar tends to put in all their titles.
So basically, the whole reason why New Austin feels so empty and the epilogue feels so rushed is because developers didn't have enough time. In mid 2016 they decided to add Mexico and New Austin into the game, but they still had to develop Guarma, Ambarino and Arthur's story. In May 2017 developers understood that they won't be able to finish Mexico, so they cut it. The release date was moved from fall 2017 to spring 2018. Throughout 2017 they focused more on developing Guarma and Arthur's story. At the end of 2017 developers realized that they still don't have enough time, so the game's release date was moved to october 2018. Developers went into full crunch mode and reworked Guarma from free roam island near Saint Denis to story linear Cuba island, removed a lot of Ambarino missions and locations(50% of Ambarino is blocked by invisible walls), basically made map smaller and removed a lot of story missions and side quests. After all that they had like 6 months to develop New Austin and the epilogue.
@@Waxyyy I've always thought the same thing. It is just sad to look at all cut content: scrapped Guarma missions and locations, scrapped Ambarino locations(The whole territory of Tempest Rim is as big as the swamps of Lemoyne and Saint Denis, that's a lot), scrapped characters and missions, scrapped Mexico etc. If the release date was moved to mid or late 2019 people would get mad as hell, Rockstar and T2 just couldn't take such a big risk.
man this is once in a century type of game...they should have ignored the fans and just pushed it to 2019 or even 2020 cuz when people wouldve played the game with all this content..everyone wouldve understood why they delayed it this long and this game would have been even more than a masterpiece that it already is...wish they did this ughh
That’s the one thing I’ve always hated about ambarino and probably one of the main reasons you never see anyone up there in rdo. They made all these invisible barriers on the least narrow path of all time. Just made it feel like we had no freedom.
Personally really Love the epilogue! Really great to see John's character arc and to see how he built the ranch. One of my favorite parts of the game for me.
@@Kyubii01 it’s a mod called john marston restoration project, it does a bunch of things. like restoring epilogue john to look more like his npc model, adding the npc outfits to epilogue, and there’s a bunch of other mods that work with jmrp/are made by the same guy, like one that makes his cowboy outfit rdr1 accurate, and adds rdr1 style animations to john
@@nuv2987 oh I got it in PlayStation . But I also never played the og game so I’m not missing out much . But it is interesting to see the pc culture at work.
And they never fixed it. I feel like it's so EASY to just use John's model from before the epilogue since it's in the game... but Rockstar never changed it.
@@dillonmalbrue4179no he didn’t. epilogue john always had arthur’s model and animation. the only time john had his own model was in the prerelease screenshots before the game released
What bothers me the most outside of John not having his own hairstyles is the fact that John was dumb enough to buy the house using his name after he was in federal prison the Pinkertons would have had a harder time finding him
I believe it wasn't the government that killed John. It was Abigail she is soo foolish to believe that an Outlaw and a Whore can have a Decent Life like Law Binding Folk. I believe it was her that killed John. Poor John got himself pussy trapped and ended up getting him killed.
@@quarreneverett4767it’s kind of a huge plot hole tho, makes John look like a dumbass. Spends his life evading the law only to use his real name to buy legal property while being wanted
I believe that John's name would not attract the attention of the law, even a banal coincidence of names with another person. What attracted attention was Micah's death and what traces of witnesses were left by those who saw a group of people who were looking for him, the presence in Micah's hut of a chest where the stolen money was definitely kept, and which disappeared, and then in the same period a man named John Marston pays off the ranch loans quickly. Why did the government demand that Ross find and hang known members of Dutch's gang? Because they continued to commit robberies, Bill, Dutch, Javier do not seem to have immediately fled to Mexico either. Whereas nothing was known about John. Perhaps he was also considered dead, after Arthur or generally shot during a train robbery. And then suddenly someone kills Micah Bell, takes the money, the traces again lead to Blackwater, and then the rest, which I wrote about above. The funniest thing is that if Sadie and Charles had gone there alone, they would have died and would have led Micah to John himself. That is, none of them could actually go to take revenge. A family with the surname Marston would live near Blackwater, who took the land and the construction of the ranch on credit and would pay from the income on the loans. Doesn't sound like a outlaw's behaviour
The Epilogue would've benefitted from another delay to 2019 to finish up John's model, his unique side missions animations that were cut, removed cutscenes that made the editing feel abrupt and update RDR1's map to 1907. In the files, New Austin is marked 1899 as that's how it's supposed to look in the main story and why it's so different from the first game, they didn't have time to change it by the epilogue to look consistent with RDR1.
@@knightsaber3155 Not really. Towns don't go from disease ridden to booming in 4 years, gang hideouts don't suddenly become port towns and several railroads wouldn't be all laid out this quickly. And this is only some of the notable differences.
@@knightsaber3155 It doesn’t make sense due to how much is missing from the rdr1 map in 2. Also the rdo map which is in 1899 is the same exact one they give you in the epilogue. It’s extremely unfinished
I loved the Epilogue! You could see an inbetween John where he basically becomes a man in a way. The one his family needs. In RDR1 he's just a badass that seems to have everything figured out in terms of who he is. So I think the epilogue is super important in tying the two games together. Plus it was a nice lighthearted and sometimes comical relief from the emotional anguish we went through in the main game.
Well. Where do I start, the epilogue unlocked a massive area that never really pushed you to explore much. Limited quests in a massive area but all taking place in a small area of the map. Also we lost the entire camp and gang interaction and the feeling of a looming threat of pinkertons that pursued us The biggest reason it didn't feel good or fun was the fact that most people just experienced the loss of a character that was so well written that the loss had a very real emotional impact on many of us. The motivation to play as John just wasn't there for me. Killing Micah wasn't satisfying for me.
I never liked the way they did Micah's death. Shooting him five times in the face while he just stands there taking it and then the cutscene showing him talking with his whole face gone, it just felt goofy as hell. He should've been as a regular NPC with destroyable limbs and the ability to be hog tied. I would have found it much more satisfying to throw him off the cliff or burn him or even to just have some ragdoll physics while I shot him
@@plaguepandemic5651 to avoid the whole talking through 5 bullets to the teeth thing, i just shoot his stomach twice his lungs twice and one to his throat, looks like a more old school western way to die, disabled and choking on your own blood with your last words, "you shot me! you shot me good!"
I agree with Micah's death not being satisfying to an extent, just cause you AND Dutch shoot him when he definitely deserved a worse death. However, what makes it very satisfying for me is the fact that Dutch actually shoots him right in the center of his torso, while you finish him off with however many bullets you want depending on the pistols capacity. It's kinda bittersweet in a way because before RDR1, when you have to hunt down Dutch at the end, he does one last good and somewhat honorable deed that Arthur would be very happy with.... Shooting Micah first. And, him walking away saying nothing to John is pretty fitting IMHO.
The epilogue is my favorite part. When I finished RDR1 more than a decade ago I always wanted to keep John’s family and farm as it was. And when that happened in RDR2 I was so happy.
If you've seen some of the comic con interviews with the actors, you'll know that Roger Clark and Rob Weithoff did a lot of covering for each other during the making. As in if Rob wasn't in one day and they had a short scene to do, Roger would stand in for Rob with the mo cap and vice versa then the proper actor would do the voice over. Roger Clark says he can tell when it is him playing as John or Rob by the movements. Eg, Roger Walks slightly slouched and Rob more chest out. So yes, sometimes, John does have Arthur's body shape lol
Quite possibly they kept a similar body type as it was easier to animate, they wouldn't need to overhaul all of Arthur's animations, wouldn't need to weight paint as much and potentially were rushed for time. I know Arthur was also supposedly meant to go into Blackwater/New Austin but it was cut, so that could explain the head swap.
I think a lot of the stranger missions and such were motion captured using Roger Clark. It may have been expensive or inconvenient to go in and have John do an individual mo-cap. Still doesn’t explain the character model looking so chopped. Maybe current R* execs getting a lil revenge on the passion project of Dan Houser?
@@bigsmilereviews100 True! I remember an interview with Roger too, he explained that sometimes Rob Wiethoff wasn't available, so he had to step in as John capture wise.
@@SethWuffer That being said, it could explain why John’s dialogue in those stranger missions is so strange. The animations of Roger’s face were already there. And Rob probably had to change his rate of speech or pronunciation to keep it looking good on the mo-cap side too. Maybe he didn’t have as much freedom as he’d liked.
Nope! They already had a character model that was meant for John that was cut and left in the game files as well as brand new animations similar to his rdr1 animations that were cut and replaced with Arthur’s. He looks the way he does for no reason. Also that’s not true due to the fact with mods you can play with npc John and he looks just fine in cutscenes. Also they had time to do that with rdo characters but not John lol
Just because there is a model doesn’t mean it worked properly. Maybe it caused clipping problems in side mission cutscenes. Plus all mission would need to be retested with a new model. Maybe they ran out of time.
The music was the biggest change for me between the 2 games. Even though RDR2 had a more professional music score. In the first game it felt more alive. Meaning: every area you entered felt like it had it's own theme. & it never stopped. Whereas RDR2 felt deadly quiet at times.
I felt the same way, rdr1 has amazing western ambiance while rdr2 felt more like a hunting games ambiance. Like u said more professional but rdr1 fit the theme of the game
For me I wish there was more things to do in the epilogue. There are some side missions you can only do as Arthur so I think it would be fair for John to have a few side missions just for him. It would bring more reason to go to New Austin or some areas in West Elizabeth other than trying to complete the game. I feel like there was missing side quest potential with the Skinner Brothers and the Del Lobo gang who roam about New Austin. Even in other parts of the map too. There should be a bit more reason to go back to Saint Denis, Van Horn, Rhodes or the plantation houses around Rhodes.
I'm sure people here are happy about it and appreciate it. That doesn't change the fact that many think it has notable flaws and areas where it could've been much better.
Arthur Marston aside my biggest issue not mentioned here was how forced it felt, like Epilogue part 2, finally off that ranch but if you change your clothes then die, it respawns you in rancher attire and it gives this constant feeling of having to progress as quickly as possible when they had the chance to let John be free for a while before settling down or hunting micah we could explore the map but each time I left blackwater, I felt like I was under a strict timer to return there to complete the story but once the story is over, your rich... so what. But yeah, biggest issue is easily John Morgan, hard to look at.
Me too. And as for his appearance, you can actually make him look similar to Rdr1 to SOME extent without mods. The epilogue allowed me to visit John Marston's character once again after his harsh fate...
I just finished my first playthrough a couple weeks ago. Credits should have run after Arthur died to give you a few minutes before you have to start playing again. At least something. It was too fast. I’d have like to have seen the epilogue pick up sooner. Have you play as John trying to track down Abigail, Jack, Sadie, and Tilly and telling them what happened. And then having them all say goodbye and split up to be safer. This could even have just been a cutscene. I just wanted something. It would have been heart wrenching, but getting to play as Charles going back to find Arthur’s body and bury him would have fit the mood at the time as well. Basically, I was irl mourning after Arthur died, and I didn’t want to mourn alone. But time skip didn’t let me mourn with the other characters. After they do that, then they can timeskip to the epilogue as we have it. However, I do wish they’d have left John out of the bounty hunting missions with Sadie. Or at least made them optional. It felt really weird. Then after the house is up and Micah is dead, I’d have loved to play as Sadie. Sadie running around New Austin collecting bounties and getting in gunfights fits where she is at as a character at that point in time so much more than it does John. As it is now, when I take John out into the desert it feels like why am I even here. And if that’s what it feel like, they should have just left it out of the game.
As I was reaching the end of Arthur's journey, I had this sneaky feeling that we will get to play as Sadie but no Rockstar did the "oh so you were disappointed with how red dead 1 ended huh? Here, hope you enjoy playing as John and free roam around for the rest of the epilogue and after it for as much as you want" (which doesn't suits him in this timeline at all if he wants to go bounty hunting for example)
When I ended the first time I stoped playing for 2 weeks after Arthur death.. Then after 2 weeks I played the epiloge.. Yeah, the start of the epiloge should been made in a different way 😢
I don’t understand how people like Sadie all that much tbh. Always hated her because she went against the one thing Arthur always stood by, “Revenge is a fool’s game.” She finally got to see Colm hang but that wasn’t enough for her, so you then have to travel to some ranch to help kill 20 more O’ Driscolls. Then 8 years later she comes with you to kill Micah for more revenge (although I did enjoy that). Such a silly character. She stands out too much compared to the rest of the characters and we don’t know what happens too her after the epilogue (probably dead)
@@seva7500 replaying and i'm almost on the mission where colm gets hung and goddamn sadie annoys the everloving fuck out of me always going after o'driscolls and shit like calm down
After playing the epilogue John became one of my favorite characters and I can see why he’s a fan favorite, John in the first game just seems angry and now I see why , But your right for a billion dollar company they could of just fix his model and at least add some missions in new Austin, the one question I have is why did John arrive to Black water on a passenger ferry if he lives next to Blackwater
Problem is Arthur was supposed to be able to ride freely through New Austin. If you're able to glitch him to New Austin, you'll see the drawings he makes in his journal when he finds a Point of Interest are different from John's (both, drawings and handwriting). There are recorded voice lines by Roger Clark in the Dinosaur Bones quest and in the Legendary Fishes quest finales, indicating Arthur was initially supposed to be able to complete these quests.
There just wasn't enough to do after the Epilogue stories. They rushed it and the whole west feels empty and pointless. I purposely leave most bounties and side missions for John just to have something to do after the main story. Also I'm on PC so I mod my game for more content.
Honestly, the Epilogue was ok to me...aside from one thing: The whole conflict between Abigail and John. Pretty much every instance where she gets mad at him it's because he's defending himself, other people, his employers and their property/kids, etc. She gives John hell for defending himself from being robbed (it's the reason they left where they were and were in the area they start at in the Epilogue). She gives John hell for getting the wagon that was stolen from him (and the goods he was delivering as well). For stopping their employer's kid from getting hurt or worse. For saving their employers property when he was directly asked to do so by said employer. For defending himself and Jack from three assholes that confronted them off the road from an errand he was sent on. All the while never giving an alternative (not like there was one) when John asked. She just huffs and walked away or went to bed. Her note to him when she temporarily leaves can pretty much be summed up with "You're reverting to the outlaw again, I can't watch you destroy yourself" when that clearly wasn't the case. At all. Rockstar, bro, I freaking LOVE this game. Pretty much everything up to that point was awesomely written. But if your goal was to make it seem like John was falling back into his outlaw ways? You failed.
I believe it wasn't the government that killed John. It was Abigail she is soo foolish to believe that an Outlaw and a Whore can have a Decent Life like Law Binding Folk. I believe it was her that killed John. Poor John got himself pussy trapped and ended up getting him killed.
Abigail whore has the audacity to call the Outlaws that protect her "Angry killers" "Fools" I wished John slapped the shit out of her for speaking ill like that about their Life put her in her place. They really made her such a bitch in this game. She wasn't that bad in RDR but here I wished they gave John the option to slap her because I so badly wanted to. Sorry... I just really hate her in this game because John is trying his damn hardest to please this bitchy whore.
@@Whocares158 1. "The outlaws that protect her" For most of the game, sure, but if you recall, Dutch, Micah, Bill, and Javier all agreed to let her stay captured by Milton and his carnival of clowns called the Pinkertons near the end of the game, even with Arthur's protests. Yeah, before chapter 6, they would've saved her, no questions, but chapter 6 was when Dutch REALLY started going back on his morals and code. Plus Dutch left John to die, twice, and even Arthur once. Had it not been for Eagle Flies, Arthur would've died at the hands of the soldiers Dutch left him to. I doubt she's talking about the likes of Arthur, Lenny, or Hosea. She's probably talking more about the likes of Micah and Dutch. You know, the ACTUAL scumbags of the gang. The ones that ended up betraying Arthur and John 2. I know she acts like a bitch, and agree with what you're trying to say, but the option to hit her would not solve anything. I don't think something like that would've even made it past the beta test.
the biggest problem that they did for me is that he acts more like 1899 john in the epilogue than he should imo, and what i mean is how he talks and acts. by the time the epilogue takes place he should be speaking and acting way more like john from rdr 1, as in talking like with his great vocabulary and acting stone cold as he did in rdr1. but i think since he had such development in chapter 6, they gave him the personality which we grown accustomed too instead of the john we knew in rdr1. but in all honesty we should of been introduced to him acting like he was in rdr1. but thats my take
Perhaps he started acting that way when the government found him, took away his family, and blackmailed him to work for them so that they could have him hunt down his former gang members, or else he wouldn't see his family again. Idk.. I agree with you though
John looks the way he does for no reason at all. I mean in the game files his hair as well as a pomaded version of it, his rdr1 aiming/walking/running/looting/Facial animations and a brand new dual wielding animation, head model with a weight system and a naked npc model was found. They’re all in the game files but rockstar cut them for no reason since mods prove they work just fine.
@@Waxyyy It’s a mystery, they work completely fine too. A friend of mine was the one who found them and turned it into a mod. It’s call the jmrp (John Marston Restoration project)
I personally think the epilogue did a lot right by wrapping up the story and setting up the events of rdr1 perfectly. I think the hardest part is not playing as Arthur any more. I still haven't even played 1 (I've watched/read enough about it at this point) so I felt so connected to Arthur that after he died I lost a lot of motivation. He had his redemption, and unfortunately he couldn't save Dutch or the gang from Micah, but his story was complete. I took it pretty easy as John in my first playthrough, just riding around and doing whatever as I focused on the story as Arthur. My second playthrough I took my time as Arthur, so by the time I got to the epilogue I just stopped and started a new run (as jarring as the transition to the epilogue is, starting over immediately really throws your head for a loop). Overall I think it's well done, just a lot of my personal motivation for continuing is gone with Arthur.
idk, it is nuts that New Austin was added at all on top of a game that took me nearly threefold the time to finish the story that it took me to platinum the first game. Complaining that they didn't also make mexico available when this is already the biggest map they've ever made and includes most of the locations from the original game is a little bizarre.
Completely agree with everything said here. However I think the absolute biggest problem with the epilogue (and even RDR2 as a game) is something people never seem to talk about (and I don't understand why), and that's John's personality. John's character quite literally takes a complete U-turn between RDR2 and RDR1. He goes from an absolute idiot who can barely even form sentences in RDR2 to an angry and wise ultra badass in RDR1. Nobody can push John around in RDR1, but in RDR2 he gets pushed around by seemingly everyone, especially Arthur, Dutch, Abigail and even Uncle. Seriously, compare John and Uncle's interactions in the RDR2 epilogue to RDR1, the difference is so huge it's actually ridicolous. The reason why they nerfed John so hard was obviously because they wanted to make Arthur look better in comparison, and Rockstar actually has a history of doing that, it was the same with Johnny from GTA4 when he appeared in GTA5. It's crazy to me that nobody else seems to notice this, it's IMO the absolute biggest flaw of RDR2, and nothing else even comes remotely close. Also I agree with what you said at 6:44. RDR1 had this very unique western tone that RDR2 didn't have. This is because of the different engines the devs used, and it's why RDR2's tone is more similar to GTA5 than RDR1, because RDR2 and GTA5 used basically the same engine. This is also why I personally believe that a RDR1 remake could never work, because it would be impossible to replicate the same western tone in a modern engine... unfortunetely. People always say they want a RDR1 remake, but I think people should be careful what they wish for.
Dude fr anytime you bring up John’s entire personality shift between the two games they just say “character development”. But that makes no sense why he would suddenly become twice as eloquent and funny after spending 4 years on a farm doing manual labor. Rdr1 implies that John learned to be that way from Dutch so his personality in rdr2 is just completely inconsistent.
I’d say it’s mostly the epilogue that butchered John’s character , in the first 6 chapters it was decent ( even though it was hinted that he was an angry violent man in his younger days in rdr1 but he still have good moments and slick dialogues like in the mission where you steal horses and some camp interactions) but the biggest inconsistency is the epilogue fr , the man was on the run for 8 years , got betrayed by the gang , lost his brother in arm but he got even more immature like wtf , how come the betrayal of the gang and the loss of Arthur plus being on the run and under the pressure didn’t make you wise but 4 peaceful years did , they wasted an opportunity to just make epilogue john the same as rdr1 then it would be perfect
Does anyone remember in rdr1 John mentioned he had a daughter but she died? He mentioned this when he was telling Bonnie McFarland about his past. Why wasn't there anything about that in rdr2?
His body is tha same as Arthur's for animations and all the interactions you can have with the world. If they put his Npc body on the epilogue they would have to essentiantly check/reanimate every single possible interaction with horses,looting,interectating phisycaly with the world. It is not a simple fix, its re-doing this entire part of the game. could take years. Also, you can just think that he got fat in 8 years and thats it. They dont need to go all that extra work just for the epilogue. By doing this it means they can ship the game way earlier, and concetrate their efforts on something actually important. (wich they did) but his hair and face has no excuses thought, altought i believe they work just fine and sometimes im game development you have to make sacrifices. Its a miracle that a game like red dead 2 even exists, so its okay to have this compromises.
Um no that’s not true at all. With mods you can play as npc John with no issues at all with the animations. Plus a beta epilogue John character model that looked exactly like his npc model as well as a bunch of cut animations for him were found in the game files. He looks like Arthur for no reason at all. Also it wouldn’t take “years” and they wouldn’t have to redo anything lmao, it’s legit making a character model smaller…rockstar literally added the ability to make your rdo character skinny or fat or muscular and while they share all of Arthur’s animations they still work fine with no bugs.
Also no it’s impossible for you to look a certain way, turn into your dead friend and then go back to how you did years earlier. Just like how it’s impossible for John to have long dark brown greasy hair, have it turn into Arthur’s fuller set of hair but black now and then go back to how his hair looked like before.
@@BeatleHarrison Mods do not care if theres little bugs here and there. You have to accouny they were taking realism to extreme in this game, if they opted for Johns body they would indeed need to recheck a lot of things in a gigantic game. Im a 3D modeller, so i know its not an easy swap for the level of detail they are going, they would have to make another rig, weight paint it again, and test it in the world. Simply not worth the effort if you can get way with a simple fix. But you are right, his hair has no excuse, as i mentioned earlier. I mean just think of all the skining animations for instance, arthurs body perferctly interacts with all of them, Replacing it with a skinier moddle is bound to have unwanted things for rockstar level of detail. Clothes will also need to get an overhaul, on ALL of them. In the online, they dont go for that much realism in exchange for costumazing your charachter, so you see clothes clipping, and weird things going on when you are too skin or too fat. But realistacly speaking, in a avarage playtourght its not nocible, but thats not the main goal of their game, they take details to a MAX level, so they wouldnt do a buggy body on the epilogue. Even if just little bugs. Im not saying they are right, its just what they propose themlselfs to do.
@@gabrielg.2080 Did you not just read what I wrote? They already did all that lol. His beta model that resembles his npc model with a weight system was found in the game files along with a beta head, clothes and animations that work completely fine. They have minor clipping issues but guess what? His current epilogue model has WAYYYY more clipping issues than his beta model which is sad if that’s the best they could do. Plus John on 1.00 has smaller shoulders similar to rdr1 John and npc John and he worked completely fine with minor clipping issues that rockstar lazily fixed by giving him Arthur’s body type. Modders literally restored it back into the game with no issues whatsoever with it. It doesn’t break anything or do any of the things you claim will happen. Legit all they did was replace things lol. You’re not making any sense at all dude. It’ll break the game to restore the model and animations (despite the fact modders already did all that with no issues) but keeping an actual broken character model is ok? You don’t know what you’re talking about
@@gabrielg.2080 Also clothes will not need an “overhaul” because that’s already been done both with beta John and 1.00 John… HELLO even rdo characters have clothes that fit them with different weight types and hairstyles. You forgot you can change their weight with eating too right? They can do that with online but not John? I’m giving you literal proof that it’s not at all hard or complex as you’re making it out to be because again it’s already been done with beta John, 1.00 John and rdo characters. If a modder can do it with no issues imagine what rockstar could do if they’d stop being lazy and just replace the model with his 1.00 or beta model and give him his already finished animations and hairstyles as well as his npc clothes
It was still fun but the whole world just seemed to die when Arthur did, and I don't mean that in some metaphorical way it just felt like I had been practically everywhere and done everything except run around a mostly empty desert that I didn't get to explore as Arthur. It makes me want to do a playthrough where I rush through the story with Arthur and only do the missable stuff and save as much as possible for John and see how different it is.
Great vid Waxy! Epilogue Part 1 was the most enjoyable time I ever had playing despite happening so soon after Arthur's death, it was a genuinely great experience as the Origin story for John. With New Austin being added on late in development and the plot holes they created just by doing that really wouldn't have been a problem if Rockstar added some after release support to the Story Mode they spent 8 YEARS working on just to shift focus on an online mode they would also soon abandon. Thank you modders for doing what a multi-billion dollar company couldn't. o7
For real tho big thanks to modders, it just sucks for people like me on console. Thanks for ur comment and support! Also will u be uploading again soon? I would love to know
The only thing I don’t like about the epilogue is that it begins literally 2 seconds after Arthur’s death so it doesn’t feel like 8 years since his death it feels like John and his family went to strawberry after meeting up I say this because after I finished the main story for the 3000th time it was late so I saved just before the wheel mission and went to bed then a few days later I play the epilogue and it actually felt like a while since Arthur’s death not 8 years long but still long
I personally like the epilogue it shows you how john got the ranch and what happened before the events of the first game, but man I wish they gave him his outfits from rdr1 and his old hair style back, while half of rdr1 map was included (not Mexico) its honestly depressing that they didn't add any missions in it, not even a stranger mission aside from random encounters like the armadillo sheriff leaving somewhere else because of the delobo gang and the sheriff in tumble weed Taking full authority which would lead to the settlements demise, this is from a player that played rdr1 first
sadie adler's bounty missions were probably the most boring part for me (in epilogue at least) if I am being completely transparent. I am sure some of the dialogue between her and john are good, but the missions themselves are not. it involves you travelling a long way by horse to go after one dude and then a shootout of some kind always happens, then you capture them. the bounty hunter mission where you take the prisoner to jail but then his gang breaks him out, which could have been avoided if they weren't dumb by running away from the prison but what do I know. I think the strange man once said or wrote something like "they have learned a lot but at the same time not learned anything at all" well you can apply that to john, but also sadie's dumbass. she's supposed to be an "experienced" bounty hunter but doesn't know how to handle being stabbed by a knife, nor does she think for a second that running after somebody's gang could be a trick to break their leader out of the jail. she also clearly never learned that arthur says revenge is a fool's game, because that is literally her entire existence, from killing colm o'driscoll and a bunch of his boys who had no part in her husband's death at all other than a few of them that dutch's gang likely already killed, to killing a guy because "he was mean and he stole my bounty from me", to hunting after micah which nearly got her killed by the previously mentioned knife wound. revenge and killing are the only things ever present in her mind and people love that for some reason because she's a girl. long comment I know, but I could do it fast or do it right, I chose to do it right.
Alot of new austin being unfinished is actually because of the map leak. New austin was NEVER meant to be in rdr2, but when the beta map was leaked people complained so they were pressured to rush it into the game. This is why there isnt a 1907 version of new austin, only the 1899 version (notice how no gravestones exceed 1899). So we cant fully blame the devs for running out of time when it was the community who ironically forced their hand to rush out the end of the game (the deadlines were set in stone)
ah yes it’s always the fans fault. fans didn’t force them to rush the game, the higher ups at rockstar and take two did. stop blaming fans for everything
@@ninjafrog6966 I didn't. I'm saying rockstar wouldn't have had to add new Austin in if the fans didn't whine about the leak. They had deadlines and unfortunately had to rush said deadlines due to someone leaking the map, in an ideal world rockstar would've had more time but they already had to delay it
@@ninjafrog6966 No I'm saying it's the fans fault, I misconstrued your comment. It's the fans fault but they inadvertently ruined epilogue by causing rockstar to have to scrap some of the game and extend development past their deadline
The change of pacing in the Epilogue was definitely a bit jarring on my first playthrough, but I've grown to absolutely love it upon replays. It's such a nice way to finish the epic story and really bridges the gap between the games.
I think the issue of John not having his own model probably has to with cutscenes for stranger missions, they would have recast all cutscenes just to suit John model ( as you know John model in pre epilogue is different from Arthur) which would have added a lot more development time
@@purehollow I've played on 1.00 version and used mods to restore body and had no issues with it. I also did 100% a few times on both versions and watched every cutscene. And I can tell a small clipping is much better than an entire model being a weird
Nope rockstar had already done that, in the files a beta head and character model for John was found that already had proper fitment as well as animations and hairstyles and clothes that rockstar cut for no issue since they work fine. He looks the way he does for no reason
The main story is a beautifully written journey about a man forced to come to terms with his past mistakes while getting a terrible sickness that makes him see the people he knew the way they really are and slowly losing faith in all of them, but the epilogue and rdr1 is just a fucking cowboy action movie with an overpowered gunslingin outlaw and i love it
Sadie bossing you around makes no sense. Sure she’s capable but she takes the lead way too much and is seemingly bossing John around on all her missions and never shuts up. I feel like she should have gotten killed off when she raided the odriscols ranch or at least become content. Definitely not playing the role of John’s boss, they could’ve introduced a whole different character for that or just done it with Charles or uncle
For me it's a little more than the look. Rockstar Should've done a job at lining John's charecter up with his rdr1 self. As he is a lot more expressive and shows emotion was less subtlety now. It's okay back in 1899 cause john is only 26 but with 8 years passing he still seems the same. RDR1 John had a very matter of fact tone, had more subtlety in the acting, was sorta cold, but always had funny quips, one liners and a sense of humor with a lot of sarcasm. But not here and that always kinda bothered me. It feels like they made John more like Arthur
I love any story with a dramatic change in itself at some point. Example, JAWS, first 2/3rds is like a small town murder mystery, and then the last 1/3rd is an epic sea adventure. The epilogue of RDR2 is like that, and I for one loved it. Gave the game an even more epic feel once you got to the mountain top for its climax. Perfect game.
I’ve found a pretty good look for John, or at least the best I could get on console: - Level 5 right parted fade with pomade - Level 3 pencil stache, with level 2 chops and level 1 chin
As someone who considers Red Dead Redemption 2 to be one of the greatest games of all time, I completely agree with everything here, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was disappointed by these things. The original Red Dead Redemption is my favorite video game of all time, and John Marston might be my favorite video game protagonist out there. Not just because he was such a badass, but because his mission was for the most noble cause: To reunite with his family. An immediate thing I noticed in the epilogue was John's clumsiness. Sure, it might be because he's still learning how to be a decent man, but he just seems like he does whatever he's told all of the time (Although he does kill Micah despite Abigail's protests) New Austin is the biggest problem in my opinion. It's just a pathetic wasteland in the second game. The only thing I like about it is the new desert iguanas that are there.
Like I said they should’ve made a dlc with a new character in New Austin, rdr2 mostly takes place away from the true wild west so it could’ve been a great way of adding classic west imagery, thanks for ur comment zonkers inc!
@@Waxyyy I think New Austin should've been setting of the final Chapter, it would've made more sense and been more fitting than Roanoke Ridge. Since the whole game they've been away from the west heading further east until they finally go back to the West they've been dreaming of but now under different circumstances with the gang deeply divided.
The body thing was most likely the fast way to get all clothing to fit. instead of having to make sure the textures look right on 2 bodies isntead you make it look right on one.
Nope that’s actually incorrect, rockstar had already done that as proven by a beta head model and character model found in the files that has the proper fitment for clothes and hairstyles. They also found cut animations and clothes for John that rockstar cut. John looks the way he does in the epilogue for no reason other than hatred for the character
Just because you criticize something, it doesn't mean you're not grateful for it or think it's worthless. This is constrictive criticism, not blind hate or nitpicking for the sake of it.
Programmer here, sometimes when you change the body type you have to repeat some of the mocap animations such as running etc. As they can cause weird glitches and clippings to happen, you can sometimes see that with Arthur while canooing his arms go through his body. Now the change isnt drastic from Arthur to Johns body type so I doubt that cohld happen but knowing rockstar and their perfectionism they would've made seperate animations for John which would cost them thousands of dollars and increase the game's size. They probably decided that it isn't worth it to spend that much effort into epilogue and went with Arthurs animations and body. Also why John looks better in trailer is probably because they originally intended John to have a separate body type but scrapped it. Reminds me of Rainbow Six Siege reveal trailer and how they reduced the quality. Anyways the reasons for Johns body are many: budget, bugs, maybe console limitations etc. Never worked with mocap just using the information I have as an embedded systems programmer
Sure, but in online version you can have many varieties of appearance, even an option to play as a female. And that looks way different from Arthur. So all these animations etc. for different types of appearance must have been in the game.
Nope rockstar had already done that, in the files a beta head and character model for John was found that already had proper fitment as well as animations and hairstyles and clothes that rockstar cut for no issue since they work fine. He looks the way he does for no reason
i know a lot of people have probably already said this, but id love to see another undead nightmare but except it takes place when arthurs alive and the gangs together. that or a remastered rdr1 in rdr2s engine
The cochinay music from rdr1 you played is quite spooky especially in tall trees at night. I think it's quite creepy especially in the final mission with Dutch in rdr1 and the mission before that where you scout out his camp.
It would be nice if there was a RDR3 and continue to see what John's life is like, before he dies in 1911, after that, it'd be nice to see some of Dutch's and Hosea's backstory, possibly we can play as three characters, a young Dutch, a young Hosea, and a young Arthur. And see all the gang members join, like Sadie, Abigail, Marybeth, or Uncle. They could also add the Blackwater ferry robbery, and maybe see a bit of what the gang was like before Chapter 1. And they could add a director mode like in GTA V. Basically the game starts in 1911 and goes back in time to like 1898, or January of 1899, before the ferry job. It's just a thought, it would be amazing if it happened, including an Undead Nightmare 2. This would be so great if Rockstar didn't just completely abandon it.
Agreed. I love how it uses the most epic parts of the tracks from missions for freeroam and it had a dynamic stem system that played different variations of the score depending on the situation. Plus, each region had its own theme instead of reusing the same 5-6 looped tracks everywhere.
I mean going from outlaw on the run to reformed outlaw trying to enough money to start a ranch I’d always going to be less fun but American Venom is as good of a mission as the game had and building John’s ranch was a ton of fun!
I just want to say I think it was a good idea to make new Austin feel "lifeless" I think having new Austin like a ghost state was a pretty good idea aesthetic and design wise
What Red Dead Redemption 2 needed most was a large Single Player story expansion DLC that took advantage of the cut content, such as Nuevo Paraiso and Guarma, and use that as the basis for the setting (along with New Austin) of a new kind of side-story. perhaps one focusing on Javier Escuella and maybe also Bill WIlliamson, and what they got up to between the two games, and how it led them to where they were in Red Dead 1. especially Javier, since i feel like his character was ultimately somewhat underutilized. Personally i think the epilogue was pretty great. reasonable to complain about the body model of John. i get it. that being said i ultimately feel as if Rockstar truly screwed things up by not focusing on doing a more legitimate expansion.
I agree with your observations, especially the ambient music in rdr1, adding a unique feeling of being alone for some reason. Consequently, this is one of the reasons I think rdr1 is a better game. Not graphics, obviously. My biggest problem with this new John was his lack of personality, specifically his legendary sh*t talking. Where the hell is it?!? I remember first getting a hold of him in "JM rides again" and thinking "finally I get to be the gun slinging, ass kicking, poncho wearing, sh*t talking bad ass from rdr1" and then.....nothing?!?...insert cricket sounds. Could not believe it! How could R*s entire editing team overlook such an important detail? Surprised weihoff (forgot spelling) didn't say, "Where's all the insults and taunting John is known for?" Then again, maybe he did. Who knows... Anyway, it's a great game despite these issues. Good observations on your end. Guess I'll leave you to it then.. 👊
Bro I know his trash talking in the first game is legendary, “YOU CANT SHOT A FART OUT UR OWN ASS” sigma. But I still liked the epilogue overall but it could’ve used some extra time in the oven yk
the reason they did that was to make arthur the new better protagonist. johns look does not really tick me off because id always play in first person view but his talking is just weird sometimes, its like im playing a version of john that would be 30 years older than the first games version and hes settled down or something.
It's simple to explain.. John's personality went to Arthur's to make him the better protagonist in this game. Arthur's personality is just John's personality in RDR. They stolen that from him..
Fun fact, RDR2 was supposed to have taunting and trash-talk during gunfights, with a bunch of fitting voicelines for a bunch of scenarios, depending on if you're high or low honor, how many enemies you're fighting, what types of enemies you're fighting, how far away everyone is, etc. etc. but was cut with all the dialogue for both Arthur and John still in the files. Modders restored a lot of them and it brings back a lot of what you're saying is missing
Bro this need to change, we need to change john hair from 1899, his body, and in rdr1 u can roll instead of jumping and diving likemax payne, Rockstar we need to talk
By far my biggest problem with the epilogue story wise has to be the amount of filler it has with Sadie's shitty bounty hunting missions and the fact that Jack, one of the central characters of RDR1 barely gets any screentime aside from the horse riding lesson and fishing mission. Many people may disagree but I personally think Sadie and Charles shouldn't have been in the epilogue. Charles' character already got a perfect ending in chapter 6 and Sadie already avenged her husband. All that time we spent with Charles and Sadie could have been spent on further developing John's relationship with Jack and Abigail. Also, John sucks in RDR2. He is by far one of the most boring Rockstar protagonists personality wise and Rob Wiethoff's mediocre performance doesn't help, I know that sounds harsh but I just had to get it out of my system and tell the truth. However this does undermine RDR1 or Rob's fantastic performance in that game. If RDR1 never existed I bet everyone would be complaining about how shit John is. Which is a shame because John Marston was one of the best if not THE best Rockstar protagonist prior to RDR2, both in terms of personality, looks and relatability.
I can understand why you don't like John in rdr2, but saying rob had a bad performance? That's just a straight up lie. He sounded much more enthusiastic to be playing John this time compared to part 1. John has a lot of issues in part 2, rob isn't one of em
@@GLKHD Arthur and Roger's performance is completely fine, so was John and Rob in RDR1. In RDR2 on the other hand... it's a pretty mixed bag. Some lines are delivered perfectly and feel natural while others feel phoned it and delivered in a pretty cheesy way, like Rob was reading off a script instead of actually becoming John. Also, John stutters A LOT in RDR2, I can't help but to think sometimes that maybe that wasn't in the script but Rob forgetting the line and they just let that shit stay. It's hard to explain but it's usually when John yells & gets angry or when Rob's voice is overly raspy when the performance feels off, It's like the line is delivered well but the tone of his voice doesn't match well what he's saying.
@@BioshockDrill Rob's performance wasn't completely bad, I said it was mediocre because it's a mixed bag. Some of the performances that Rob pulled off were great in RDR2 whereas others were not and felt phoned it and didn't sound like it was the best performance he could pull off. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Rob Wiethoff as a person, from what I've seen he's an extremely nice and joyful person who clearly can act. With that said I do feel like his performance could have been a little bit better had they given him another take or two. It's especially jarring because John is the only character in RDR2 that doesn't give a consistent top tier performance.
I think the reason people dislike epilogue is because it sucks out most of the freedom that you've been used to playing as Arthur. You have to do all this linear shit like go to Strawberry, get to pronghorn ranch, just do what the story tells you to do for a bit. It's like you're being forced to redo the tutorial.
I think New Austin is fine, having it be a shell of its former self kinda works (in a way) as an explanation for John revisiting it in the future 'for the first time', you know, when it's an actual bustling county. It gave this constant feeling of danger, isolation and sadness at what came before. Armadillo plagued, Tumbleweed run by a highly corrupt sheriff, Del Lobos terrorising the place. I liked it at least. My biggest gripe is the money you get after killing Micah. What's the point in doing any of the side content that just makes money when you basically have an infinite supply? They should've just given you Arthur's money back or a couple thousand dollars at most.
yeah but new austin blatantly just doesn’t make sense to be this different in a 4 year span. this makes sense in 1899, which is what the actual new austin map is, but not 1907. the new austin map isn’t from 1907, it’s from 1899
Funny thing is, i had no idea about the sheer amount of game breaking bugs the game has, because first time when i played it, i didn't pay too much attention about the game and i pretty much speed run the game since i was interested in the story only. Rockstar didn't even bothered to fix these bugs to this day, it's really a shame.
Nope rockstar had already done that, in the files a beta head and character model for John was found that already had proper fitment as well as animations and hairstyles and clothes that rockstar cut for no issue since they work fine. He looks the way he does for no reason
My biggest issue is John finding all the money from blackwater in general rdr2 gives you too much money. In the main story I never felt compelled to rob a stagecoach or shops or a train because money was so easy to come by
I think that the epilogue should take place only at West Elizbeth, most on Black Water at Great Plains and Tall Trees, cause on rdr1 John himself mentions that he never been into New Austin, so that place is all new to him. I think Rockstar should had been blocked the acess to New Austin at the Epilogue, and then some time later, release a DLC were we control Javier Escuella at New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso, just right after he leaves Dutch and Bill to come back to Mexico, being a kind of prequel explaining more about the New Austin and Nuevo Paraíso lore (like what happened at Tumbleweed? How Del Lobos went from the dominant gang to pratically inexistent on rdr1? How Javier went from an outlaw rebel, from a Army hired bounty Hunter? Theres lots of questions like this unsolved...
The way I look at it, as far John's epilogue look goes. John would have to sport a different hairstyle or length to disguise himself, being on the run as a former member of a notorious gang.
I wish they would have had a more gradual switch from working at the Pronghorn Ranch to owning your own . And then once you build the ranch, Sadie and Charles leave, never to be heard from or seen again . There should have been the opportunity to do more outings with Abigail, Jack and/or Uncle . There are only a handful of bounty hunting jobs to do . Then, once you have the money to buy the ranch, there really isn't anything left to do that you need that much money for . Also would have been nice to be able to go hunting and bring food back to the table as you could in the main part of the game with the gang , but Abigail complains about not having enough food , but you can't actually do anything about it .
Had they cut Guarma & made it so the gang floated down river to Austin making the chapter about having to stay low to find a way back wouldve been perfect for breathing life into the place.
What would have been smart is to have released the epilogue at a later time. John’s section could have easily been a DLC. Only reason I can figure they did the retexture trick is because John can be swapped out for Arthur in many side quests if the player didn’t do them [their dialogue is more or less the same too]. With mocap and the like, the may have been rigging issues with two different models for those cutscenes. If there was any time constraints on production that would of fed into that decision.
Reason why some of the places are missing buildings is because it wasn’t built till later on the story that’s why the Macfarlane Ranch doesn’t have the barn like Red dead 1
Nope, the NA map is the same as the 1899 online version. Rockstar just didn’t feel like re adding the buildings. Also that makes no sense since Bonnie said the barn was built when she was a little girl…… it should be there
but in RDR1, bonnie literally explains that it’s been there since she was a little girl, so it makes zero sense for it to not be built yet since the epilogue is only a 4 year time difference between it and the events of RDR1
Honestly if John just looked like actual John and not Jorthur I wouldn’t mind anything else. I have no issues with the rest of the Epilogue, even how empty it feels, just fucking fix John
Wow I agree with pretty much everything he said. I always thought John looked a little off in the epilogue but never knew this was why, I thought it was just his hair. I wish we got a little more to do with John in the epilogue as well, his story was really just avenging Arthur and bridging RDR2 with RDR1 and quickly catching up with his family, Uncle, Sadie and Charles. So I really wish they went all out on a RDR2 expansion like they did with GTA4's Lost and Damn and TBGT but this time getting to play as Sadie and Charles getting to see how their stories played out afterwards and maybe even another small storyline for John. But I know online has replaced expansion which sucks. And I really agree and disliked that New Austin felt so empty and boring and they didn't even bother with Mexico. The ending of the game (epilogue, New Austin and no Mexico) feels so rushed. And the lack of expansions or care for Red Dead Online is very dissapointing. This game is a masterpiece but it could have been even better if they finished strong and gave the title and it's fans the respect they deserved.
The reason New Austin is dead is because it wasnt planned in the game, in a 2016 map leak it wasnt in the game IIRC and when people saw the leak they were pissed, and rockstar tried to add it in and due to a time crunch,pressure from the fanbase it was just released with minor content
I hate how there is no barn at MacFarlanes ranch despite them mentioning it’s been there longer or about the same time Bonnie had been alive in the first game
Personally, I was thankful for the epilogue. They didn't have to do all that... they probably could have just cut to John Marston, current day already on the farm, as if he was reading the whole story from Arthur's journal... The whole game, everything we experienced was John reading it the whole time. But they gave us more. I am disappointed with John's look... especially when I do see mods and he looks incredible. But I'm not disappointed with New Austin... They didn't have to give us that part of the map. They could have left it out exclusively for Rrd 1 especially since, even stated in this video... Rdr 1 is supposed to be the first time he goes there. So it feels weird to me that I'm even there at all before meeting Bonnie and everything.... There are rumours going around about a Red Dead Redemption remaster or remake, so we'll see how John might look in that. And who knows, maybe they'll even try and patch John and Red Dead Redemption 2 to match it.
@@maddog6974 I got really pissed when I got to the epilogue SPECIFICALLY because of that. You can't just kill a character that everyone gets emotionally attached to just to then say "oh, he's dead, aight well here's an identical replacement" It also completely ruins the shot of John in "Jim Milton Rides Again" where he does the promotional art pose. Even as someone who never played the first game, I still think that's bullshit
Hate to say it, but the Epilogue in its current state just feels like a side-thought.
John's look is what bothers me the most of course. The fact that there's no way to ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE JOHN MARSTON WHILE PLAYING AS JOHN MARSTON always pisses me off.
It's funny, in my first playthrough of RDR2, as a huge RDR1 fanboy, once I heard you played as John in the epilogue, I absolutely BUMRUSHED the story so I could play as him. Now, in my current and likely final, 100% playthrough, I am absolutely dreading reaching the epilogue and am completing absolutely EVERYTHING that I possibly can as Arthur. Simply because I know playing as Johnther Morgston is gonna absolutely shred my immersion this time around.
John's appearance aside? The epilogue as a concept had the potential to be the ultimate 'game after the game'. Imagine being able to properly care for the ranch beyond the shallow chore system. Being able to bathe, potentially receive haircuts from Abigail, contribute to meal recipes, and craft certain upgrades all at beecher'a hope would've made it the "Ultimate Camp" so to speak. Like another in-game reward for reaching the end of your journey and finally settling down as John Marston. While I fucking love Beecher's Hope, I can't help but to find that it feels kinda empty and shallow after awhile.
I understand that the Epilogue was apparently developed under a massive time-crunch. But it saddens me that Rockstar was never willing to go in and tweak some stuff or potentially add some content. If Rockstar's online modes can recieve sm content in the form of updates, why can't singleplayer?
That, along with the lack of story DLC just goes to show that once the singleplayer is released nowadays, that's pretty much it, that's all we get. No more potentially great experiences like Undead Nightmare or the GTA IV DLCs, those days are gone :(
Something goes under-developed and didn't get the attention it deserved? Oh well, Rockstar can't milk massive profit off of it, so it's stuck that way forever.
Rockstar is just so damn good at crafting singleplayer experiences, but we're at the point where we're only getting that sorta content for their major releases. And at this point, we're having to wait a decade (maybe more) between each one lmao
Thats cause all that kids care about nowadays is an online mode.. And the only thing developers care about is money.. Rockstar saw that there is more potential in gta online and let rdr2 completely out.. Its sad but true
Rockstar used to be ontop of the gaming industry. Now they are just soulless moneygrabbers
@@maksvostochny bro, you mean Rockstar saw that there is huge potential in GTA online Kid's fan base to burn hard earned money of their parents, and than on other hand mature fan base of the RDR2 who knows that wasting their money on online every in game item is just stupidity.
But thank God Rockstar learned their lesson and decided that RDR3 comes without online mode and they also said that their main focus on Singleplayer story mode with more missions and DLCs
I know that you can shave his beard at the end of the epilogue of Red Dead Redemption 2 to make him look like John Marston.
Stop your moaning you cry baby. Playing as John is amazing like the rest of the game.
The fact Is, besides all it's flaws i loved playing the epilogue. It sucks out all the tension, it's almost like being teleported in another dimension.
But yes i'm a right down hater of John's look in the epilogue, that's why i play the 1.0 version. He wasn't that fucked up there
Thats the point of the epilogue, so that you are not feeling depressed after te game ends
@@fabiog9447 how is he fucked up
@@RebornVengeance7 he has Arthur's body, Arthur facial shape, Artthur's beard and hair system and so on. Most of this things are already there in 1.0, but you can fix some
Yeah. Despite how empty and quiet the world sounds without Arthur, I genuinely enjoyed dozens of hours just roaming around the map and taking in the scenery without having to worry about Micah or Dutch or Pinkertons.
The fact that the game literally ends with John and Abigail standing on where their graves will be was phenomenonal. It really hammers home Arthur's message that revenge is a fools game, and leads into RDR1 fantastically. Prefect ending in my opinion.
Not really with the plot errors and retcons rdr2 caused rdr1
I agree
@@BeatleHarrisonMind saying what that is?
@@BeatleHarrisonshow me the evidence of retcons
@@BeatleHarrisonWhat kind of retcons?
It's still annoying though that they didn't bother to fix John or add more content to RDR1's map through patches, like you said. They largely abandoned story mode after launch and only introduced more problems to it.
They kept patching fun glitches like the Bronte glitch (still works but they nerfed it massively) and completely abandoned some annoying ones like arthur's beard not connecting
Also they should have added some way to remove the NA sniper on your second playthrough or something after we complete epilogue 2 so that we get to experience the story the way they want us to and then do it however we like
And I'm sure milking GTA online is more profitable but come on at least don't patch the good gitches 😂😂
@@morjam4265 That's why I think Rockstar games, especially RDR2, would benefit from a new gameplay+ mode. It'd allow us to experience the whole game unlimited without these odd constraints Rockstar tends to put in all their titles.
Well I guess you got dropped on your head.
This is why i love pc cause you can add mexico and johns og face and body with mods
@@trevorwalsh9443 Eh
So basically, the whole reason why New Austin feels so empty and the epilogue feels so rushed is because developers didn't have enough time. In mid 2016 they decided to add Mexico and New Austin into the game, but they still had to develop Guarma, Ambarino and Arthur's story. In May 2017 developers understood that they won't be able to finish Mexico, so they cut it. The release date was moved from fall 2017 to spring 2018. Throughout 2017 they focused more on developing Guarma and Arthur's story. At the end of 2017 developers realized that they still don't have enough time, so the game's release date was moved to october 2018. Developers went into full crunch mode and reworked Guarma from free roam island near Saint Denis to story linear Cuba island, removed a lot of Ambarino missions and locations(50% of Ambarino is blocked by invisible walls), basically made map smaller and removed a lot of story missions and side quests. After all that they had like 6 months to develop New Austin and the epilogue.
Interesting, imagine if they pushed it to 2019? It would be a long wait but worth it in the end
@@Waxyyy I've always thought the same thing. It is just sad to look at all cut content: scrapped Guarma missions and locations, scrapped Ambarino locations(The whole territory of Tempest Rim is as big as the swamps of Lemoyne and Saint Denis, that's a lot), scrapped characters and missions, scrapped Mexico etc. If the release date was moved to mid or late 2019 people would get mad as hell, Rockstar and T2 just couldn't take such a big risk.
man this is once in a century type of game...they should have ignored the fans and just pushed it to 2019 or even 2020 cuz when people wouldve played the game with all this content..everyone wouldve understood why they delayed it this long and this game would have been even more than a masterpiece that it already is...wish they did this ughh
Nicely put, this makes perfect sense considering the delays at the time, man it was wild back then waiting for the game
That’s the one thing I’ve always hated about ambarino and probably one of the main reasons you never see anyone up there in rdo. They made all these invisible barriers on the least narrow path of all time. Just made it feel like we had no freedom.
Personally really Love the epilogue! Really great to see John's character arc and to see how he built the ranch. One of my favorite parts of the game for me.
the epilogue is also one of my favorite parts of the game but playing it with the JMRP mod makes it infinitely more enjoyable
@@nuv2987what’s that jrmp
@@Kyubii01 it’s a mod called john marston restoration project, it does a bunch of things. like restoring epilogue john to look more like his npc model, adding the npc outfits to epilogue, and there’s a bunch of other mods that work with jmrp/are made by the same guy, like one that makes his cowboy outfit rdr1 accurate, and adds rdr1 style animations to john
@@nuv2987 oh I got it in PlayStation . But I also never played the og game so I’m not missing out much . But it is interesting to see the pc culture at work.
@@Kyubii01play the og game...
😅now
John’s character model being Arthur’s re-textured is the only thing I deem unforgivable
And they never fixed it. I feel like it's so EASY to just use John's model from before the epilogue since it's in the game... but Rockstar never changed it.
And the weirdest thing is that that was only a problem that was PATCHED IN. John had his own model at first
@@dillonmalbrue4179no he didn’t. epilogue john always had arthur’s model and animation. the only time john had his own model was in the prerelease screenshots before the game released
@ninjafrog6966 yes he did! He even had his own unique hair, both head and beard as well before they just replaced that with Arthur's too
@@ninjafrog6966It's in the in-game files, there's a mod you can use to replace it.
What bothers me the most outside of John not having his own hairstyles is the fact that John was dumb enough to buy the house using his name after he was in federal prison the Pinkertons would have had a harder time finding him
I believe it wasn't the government that killed John.
It was Abigail she is soo foolish to believe that an Outlaw and a Whore can have a Decent Life like Law Binding Folk.
I believe it was her that killed John.
Poor John got himself pussy trapped and ended up getting him killed.
Well the story for 2 was made after 1 so always expect issues when its kinda pushed in
@@quarreneverett4767it’s kind of a huge plot hole tho, makes John look like a dumbass. Spends his life evading the law only to use his real name to buy legal property while being wanted
@@majinxx6272 i get ig
I believe that John's name would not attract the attention of the law, even a banal coincidence of names with another person. What attracted attention was Micah's death and what traces of witnesses were left by those who saw a group of people who were looking for him, the presence in Micah's hut of a chest where the stolen money was definitely kept, and which disappeared, and then in the same period a man named John Marston pays off the ranch loans quickly. Why did the government demand that Ross find and hang known members of Dutch's gang? Because they continued to commit robberies, Bill, Dutch, Javier do not seem to have immediately fled to Mexico either. Whereas nothing was known about John. Perhaps he was also considered dead, after Arthur or generally shot during a train robbery. And then suddenly someone kills Micah Bell, takes the money, the traces again lead to Blackwater, and then the rest, which I wrote about above. The funniest thing is that if Sadie and Charles had gone there alone, they would have died and would have led Micah to John himself. That is, none of them could actually go to take revenge. A family with the surname Marston would live near Blackwater, who took the land and the construction of the ranch on credit and would pay from the income on the loans. Doesn't sound like a outlaw's behaviour
The Epilogue would've benefitted from another delay to 2019 to finish up John's model, his unique side missions animations that were cut, removed cutscenes that made the editing feel abrupt and update RDR1's map to 1907. In the files, New Austin is marked 1899 as that's how it's supposed to look in the main story and why it's so different from the first game, they didn't have time to change it by the epilogue to look consistent with RDR1.
Well, the Epilogue in 2 was 1907 while RDR1 was in 1911, so it's understandable that it would look different than 1911 New Austin.
@@knightsaber3155 but still 4 years is much much less than 8 it'd make more sense for new Austin to change from 1899 to 1907
@@knightsaber3155 Not really. Towns don't go from disease ridden to booming in 4 years, gang hideouts don't suddenly become port towns and several railroads wouldn't be all laid out this quickly. And this is only some of the notable differences.
what do you mean by cut side mission animations?
@@knightsaber3155 It doesn’t make sense due to how much is missing from the rdr1 map in 2. Also the rdo map which is in 1899 is the same exact one they give you in the epilogue. It’s extremely unfinished
I loved the Epilogue! You could see an inbetween John where he basically becomes a man in a way. The one his family needs. In RDR1 he's just a badass that seems to have everything figured out in terms of who he is. So I think the epilogue is super important in tying the two games together. Plus it was a nice lighthearted and sometimes comical relief from the emotional anguish we went through in the main game.
Well. Where do I start, the epilogue unlocked a massive area that never really pushed you to explore much. Limited quests in a massive area but all taking place in a small area of the map.
Also we lost the entire camp and gang interaction and the feeling of a looming threat of pinkertons that pursued us
The biggest reason it didn't feel good or fun was the fact that most people just experienced the loss of a character that was so well written that the loss had a very real emotional impact on many of us. The motivation to play as John just wasn't there for me. Killing Micah wasn't satisfying for me.
I never liked the way they did Micah's death. Shooting him five times in the face while he just stands there taking it and then the cutscene showing him talking with his whole face gone, it just felt goofy as hell. He should've been as a regular NPC with destroyable limbs and the ability to be hog tied. I would have found it much more satisfying to throw him off the cliff or burn him or even to just have some ragdoll physics while I shot him
That's why I didn't do as much of the side quests as Arthur
@@plaguepandemic5651 to avoid the whole talking through 5 bullets to the teeth thing, i just shoot his stomach twice his lungs twice and one to his throat, looks like a more old school western way to die, disabled and choking on your own blood with your last words, "you shot me! you shot me good!"
@@plaguepandemic5651You don't have to shoot him in the face, I usually go balls 6 Times
I agree with Micah's death not being satisfying to an extent, just cause you AND Dutch shoot him when he definitely deserved a worse death. However, what makes it very satisfying for me is the fact that Dutch actually shoots him right in the center of his torso, while you finish him off with however many bullets you want depending on the pistols capacity. It's kinda bittersweet in a way because before RDR1, when you have to hunt down Dutch at the end, he does one last good and somewhat honorable deed that Arthur would be very happy with.... Shooting Micah first. And, him walking away saying nothing to John is pretty fitting IMHO.
The epilogue is my favorite part. When I finished RDR1 more than a decade ago I always wanted to keep John’s family and farm as it was. And when that happened in RDR2 I was so happy.
Exactly my thoughts too bro
If you've seen some of the comic con interviews with the actors, you'll know that Roger Clark and Rob Weithoff did a lot of covering for each other during the making. As in if Rob wasn't in one day and they had a short scene to do, Roger would stand in for Rob with the mo cap and vice versa then the proper actor would do the voice over. Roger Clark says he can tell when it is him playing as John or Rob by the movements. Eg, Roger Walks slightly slouched and Rob more chest out. So yes, sometimes, John does have Arthur's body shape lol
Quite possibly they kept a similar body type as it was easier to animate, they wouldn't need to overhaul all of Arthur's animations, wouldn't need to weight paint as much and potentially were rushed for time. I know Arthur was also supposedly meant to go into Blackwater/New Austin but it was cut, so that could explain the head swap.
I think a lot of the stranger missions and such were motion captured using Roger Clark. It may have been expensive or inconvenient to go in and have John do an individual mo-cap.
Still doesn’t explain the character model looking so chopped. Maybe current R* execs getting a lil revenge on the passion project of Dan Houser?
@@bigsmilereviews100 True! I remember an interview with Roger too, he explained that sometimes Rob Wiethoff wasn't available, so he had to step in as John capture wise.
@@SethWuffer That being said, it could explain why John’s dialogue in those stranger missions is so strange. The animations of Roger’s face were already there. And Rob probably had to change his rate of speech or pronunciation to keep it looking good on the mo-cap side too. Maybe he didn’t have as much freedom as he’d liked.
Nope! They already had a character model that was meant for John that was cut and left in the game files as well as brand new animations similar to his rdr1 animations that were cut and replaced with Arthur’s. He looks the way he does for no reason. Also that’s not true due to the fact with mods you can play with npc John and he looks just fine in cutscenes. Also they had time to do that with rdo characters but not John lol
Just because there is a model doesn’t mean it worked properly. Maybe it caused clipping problems in side mission cutscenes. Plus all mission would need to be retested with a new model. Maybe they ran out of time.
The music was the biggest change for me between the 2 games.
Even though RDR2 had a more professional music score.
In the first game it felt more alive.
Meaning: every area you entered felt like it had it's own theme.
& it never stopped.
Whereas RDR2 felt deadly quiet at times.
I felt the same way, rdr1 has amazing western ambiance while rdr2 felt more like a hunting games ambiance. Like u said more professional but rdr1 fit the theme of the game
@@Waxyyy I really don't know why they changed that formula up. The music for RDR2 is amazing, it just feels very under used for lack of a better term.
For me I wish there was more things to do in the epilogue. There are some side missions you can only do as Arthur so I think it would be fair for John to have a few side missions just for him. It would bring more reason to go to New Austin or some areas in West Elizabeth other than trying to complete the game. I feel like there was missing side quest potential with the Skinner Brothers and the Del Lobo gang who roam about New Austin. Even in other parts of the map too. There should be a bit more reason to go back to Saint Denis, Van Horn, Rhodes or the plantation houses around Rhodes.
Very true, John in rdr2 is too boring and when I play rdr1 he’s just a badass
The epilouge was fan service something R* isnt very good at so im still happy we got it
I'm sure people here are happy about it and appreciate it. That doesn't change the fact that many think it has notable flaws and areas where it could've been much better.
Arthur Marston aside
my biggest issue not mentioned here was how forced it felt, like Epilogue part 2, finally off that ranch but if you change your clothes then die, it respawns you in rancher attire and it gives this constant feeling of having to progress as quickly as possible when they had the chance to let John be free for a while before settling down or hunting micah
we could explore the map but each time I left blackwater, I felt like I was under a strict timer to return there to complete the story but once the story is over, your rich... so what.
But yeah, biggest issue is easily John Morgan, hard to look at.
Needed more activities, fishing with Jack, going to town with uncle, like gta v, being able to hang out.
there was gonna be a companion system but they cut it for hunting
it would have been amazing having to go out with uncle as John and do some activities , their relationship is oddly unique and funny
That would of been good like John and Abigail could go photo Studio and the theatre anytime you like in Blackwater
I love the Epilogue, we don't see much of John in the main story so it's nice to revisit him for a bit after the fact.
I agree
Stop it’s trash
@@BigSmoke-ew5tdYour opinion
@@rollitupmars And yours is trash
Me too. And as for his appearance, you can actually make him look similar to Rdr1 to SOME extent without mods.
The epilogue allowed me to visit John Marston's character once again after his harsh fate...
I just finished my first playthrough a couple weeks ago. Credits should have run after Arthur died to give you a few minutes before you have to start playing again. At least something. It was too fast.
I’d have like to have seen the epilogue pick up sooner. Have you play as John trying to track down Abigail, Jack, Sadie, and Tilly and telling them what happened. And then having them all say goodbye and split up to be safer. This could even have just been a cutscene. I just wanted something.
It would have been heart wrenching, but getting to play as Charles going back to find Arthur’s body and bury him would have fit the mood at the time as well.
Basically, I was irl mourning after Arthur died, and I didn’t want to mourn alone. But time skip didn’t let me mourn with the other characters.
After they do that, then they can timeskip to the epilogue as we have it. However, I do wish they’d have left John out of the bounty hunting missions with Sadie. Or at least made them optional. It felt really weird.
Then after the house is up and Micah is dead, I’d have loved to play as Sadie. Sadie running around New Austin collecting bounties and getting in gunfights fits where she is at as a character at that point in time so much more than it does John.
As it is now, when I take John out into the desert it feels like why am I even here. And if that’s what it feel like, they should have just left it out of the game.
As I was reaching the end of Arthur's journey, I had this sneaky feeling that we will get to play as Sadie but no Rockstar did the "oh so you were disappointed with how red dead 1 ended huh? Here, hope you enjoy playing as John and free roam around for the rest of the epilogue and after it for as much as you want" (which doesn't suits him in this timeline at all if he wants to go bounty hunting for example)
When I ended the first time I stoped playing for 2 weeks after Arthur death.. Then after 2 weeks I played the epiloge.. Yeah, the start of the epiloge should been made in a different way 😢
I don’t understand how people like Sadie all that much tbh. Always hated her because she went against the one thing Arthur always stood by, “Revenge is a fool’s game.”
She finally got to see Colm hang but that wasn’t enough for her, so you then have to travel to some ranch to help kill 20 more O’ Driscolls. Then 8 years later she comes with you to kill Micah for more revenge (although I did enjoy that). Such a silly character. She stands out too much compared to the rest of the characters and we don’t know what happens too her after the epilogue (probably dead)
@@seva7500 replaying and i'm almost on the mission where colm gets hung and goddamn sadie annoys the everloving fuck out of me always going after o'driscolls and shit like calm down
@@saintkatanaspoiler warning
She’s always angry, even in the epilogue. Constantly yelling too. She just pisses me off.
After playing the epilogue John became one of my favorite characters and I can see why he’s a fan favorite, John in the first game just seems angry and now I see why , But your right for a billion dollar company they could of just fix his model and at least add some missions in new Austin, the one question I have is why did John arrive to Black water on a passenger ferry if he lives next to Blackwater
1) billion pound company* rockstar is British
2) could have*
3) I believe he was being held in detainment somewhere in the east (where rdr2 is)
Problem is Arthur was supposed to be able to ride freely through New Austin. If you're able to glitch him to New Austin, you'll see the drawings he makes in his journal when he finds a Point of Interest are different from John's (both, drawings and handwriting).
There are recorded voice lines by Roger Clark in the Dinosaur Bones quest and in the Legendary Fishes quest finales, indicating Arthur was initially supposed to be able to complete these quests.
There just wasn't enough to do after the Epilogue stories. They rushed it and the whole west feels empty and pointless. I purposely leave most bounties and side missions for John just to have something to do after the main story. Also I'm on PC so I mod my game for more content.
That’s the best thing to do tbh
Same. I leave all bountys and strangers for John. Helps a bit.
Ah that's a good advise.
Honestly, the Epilogue was ok to me...aside from one thing: The whole conflict between Abigail and John. Pretty much every instance where she gets mad at him it's because he's defending himself, other people, his employers and their property/kids, etc.
She gives John hell for defending himself from being robbed (it's the reason they left where they were and were in the area they start at in the Epilogue). She gives John hell for getting the wagon that was stolen from him (and the goods he was delivering as well). For stopping their employer's kid from getting hurt or worse. For saving their employers property when he was directly asked to do so by said employer. For defending himself and Jack from three assholes that confronted them off the road from an errand he was sent on.
All the while never giving an alternative (not like there was one) when John asked. She just huffs and walked away or went to bed. Her note to him when she temporarily leaves can pretty much be summed up with "You're reverting to the outlaw again, I can't watch you destroy yourself" when that clearly wasn't the case. At all.
Rockstar, bro, I freaking LOVE this game. Pretty much everything up to that point was awesomely written. But if your goal was to make it seem like John was falling back into his outlaw ways? You failed.
I believe it wasn't the government that killed John.
It was Abigail she is soo foolish to believe that an Outlaw and a Whore can have a Decent Life like Law Binding Folk.
I believe it was her that killed John.
Poor John got himself pussy trapped and ended up getting him killed.
Abigail whore has the audacity to call the Outlaws that protect her
"Angry killers"
"Fools"
I wished John slapped the shit out of her for speaking ill like that about their Life put her in her place.
They really made her such a bitch in this game.
She wasn't that bad in RDR but here I wished they gave John the option to slap her because I so badly wanted to.
Sorry... I just really hate her in this game because John is trying his damn hardest to please this bitchy whore.
@@Whocares158 1. "The outlaws that protect her"
For most of the game, sure, but if you recall, Dutch, Micah, Bill, and Javier all agreed to let her stay captured by Milton and his carnival of clowns called the Pinkertons near the end of the game, even with Arthur's protests. Yeah, before chapter 6, they would've saved her, no questions, but chapter 6 was when Dutch REALLY started going back on his morals and code. Plus Dutch left John to die, twice, and even Arthur once. Had it not been for Eagle Flies, Arthur would've died at the hands of the soldiers Dutch left him to.
I doubt she's talking about the likes of Arthur, Lenny, or Hosea. She's probably talking more about the likes of Micah and Dutch. You know, the ACTUAL scumbags of the gang. The ones that ended up betraying Arthur and John
2. I know she acts like a bitch, and agree with what you're trying to say, but the option to hit her would not solve anything. I don't think something like that would've even made it past the beta test.
abigail is a massive bitch in this game for no reason
the biggest problem that they did for me is that he acts more like 1899 john in the epilogue than he should imo, and what i mean is how he talks and acts. by the time the epilogue takes place he should be speaking and acting way more like john from rdr 1, as in talking like with his great vocabulary and acting stone cold as he did in rdr1. but i think since he had such development in chapter 6, they gave him the personality which we grown accustomed too instead of the john we knew in rdr1. but in all honesty we should of been introduced to him acting like he was in rdr1. but thats my take
Perhaps he started acting that way when the government found him, took away his family, and blackmailed him to work for them so that they could have him hunt down his former gang members, or else he wouldn't see his family again. Idk.. I agree with you though
John looks the way he does for no reason at all. I mean in the game files his hair as well as a pomaded version of it, his rdr1 aiming/walking/running/looting/Facial animations and a brand new dual wielding animation, head model with a weight system and a naked npc model was found. They’re all in the game files but rockstar cut them for no reason since mods prove they work just fine.
bro that’s so weird, I really wonder why they cut him
@@Waxyyy It’s a mystery, they work completely fine too. A friend of mine was the one who found them and turned it into a mod. It’s call the jmrp (John Marston Restoration project)
I personally think the epilogue did a lot right by wrapping up the story and setting up the events of rdr1 perfectly. I think the hardest part is not playing as Arthur any more. I still haven't even played 1 (I've watched/read enough about it at this point) so I felt so connected to Arthur that after he died I lost a lot of motivation. He had his redemption, and unfortunately he couldn't save Dutch or the gang from Micah, but his story was complete. I took it pretty easy as John in my first playthrough, just riding around and doing whatever as I focused on the story as Arthur. My second playthrough I took my time as Arthur, so by the time I got to the epilogue I just stopped and started a new run (as jarring as the transition to the epilogue is, starting over immediately really throws your head for a loop). Overall I think it's well done, just a lot of my personal motivation for continuing is gone with Arthur.
you need to play 1 one of the best games ever
@@saintkatana if they ever actually port it to pc i will definitely. i would love to play it but i dont have any consoles.
@@Zyxyeawhy don't you try emulating it?
idk, it is nuts that New Austin was added at all on top of a game that took me nearly threefold the time to finish the story that it took me to platinum the first game. Complaining that they didn't also make mexico available when this is already the biggest map they've ever made and includes most of the locations from the original game is a little bizarre.
Completely agree with everything said here. However I think the absolute biggest problem with the epilogue (and even RDR2 as a game) is something people never seem to talk about (and I don't understand why), and that's John's personality. John's character quite literally takes a complete U-turn between RDR2 and RDR1. He goes from an absolute idiot who can barely even form sentences in RDR2 to an angry and wise ultra badass in RDR1. Nobody can push John around in RDR1, but in RDR2 he gets pushed around by seemingly everyone, especially Arthur, Dutch, Abigail and even Uncle. Seriously, compare John and Uncle's interactions in the RDR2 epilogue to RDR1, the difference is so huge it's actually ridicolous. The reason why they nerfed John so hard was obviously because they wanted to make Arthur look better in comparison, and Rockstar actually has a history of doing that, it was the same with Johnny from GTA4 when he appeared in GTA5. It's crazy to me that nobody else seems to notice this, it's IMO the absolute biggest flaw of RDR2, and nothing else even comes remotely close.
Also I agree with what you said at 6:44. RDR1 had this very unique western tone that RDR2 didn't have. This is because of the different engines the devs used, and it's why RDR2's tone is more similar to GTA5 than RDR1, because RDR2 and GTA5 used basically the same engine. This is also why I personally believe that a RDR1 remake could never work, because it would be impossible to replicate the same western tone in a modern engine... unfortunetely. People always say they want a RDR1 remake, but I think people should be careful what they wish for.
I 100% agree with you
Dude fr anytime you bring up John’s entire personality shift between the two games they just say “character development”. But that makes no sense why he would suddenly become twice as eloquent and funny after spending 4 years on a farm doing manual labor. Rdr1 implies that John learned to be that way from Dutch so his personality in rdr2 is just completely inconsistent.
I’d say it’s mostly the epilogue that butchered John’s character , in the first 6 chapters it was decent ( even though it was hinted that he was an angry violent man in his younger days in rdr1 but he still have good moments and slick dialogues like in the mission where you steal horses and some camp interactions) but the biggest inconsistency is the epilogue fr , the man was on the run for 8 years , got betrayed by the gang , lost his brother in arm but he got even more immature like wtf , how come the betrayal of the gang and the loss of Arthur plus being on the run and under the pressure didn’t make you wise but 4 peaceful years did , they wasted an opportunity to just make epilogue john the same as rdr1 then it would be perfect
Finally some one puts all my thoughts about john in rdr2 into a well said youtube comment. Bravo.
Ok ? Idgaf I still want a remake cuz why not
I hate how untouched Sadie is compared to others, feels like they have the most plot armor for no reason
Sadie is a Mary Sue. there i said it
Does anyone remember in rdr1 John mentioned he had a daughter but she died? He mentioned this when he was telling Bonnie McFarland about his past. Why wasn't there anything about that in rdr2?
Maybe this happened in 1908-1910
She was retconned out. Rob even mentioned how confused he was about it and rockstar just told him “She’s dead”
His body is tha same as Arthur's for animations and all the interactions you can have with the world. If they put his Npc body on the epilogue they would have to essentiantly check/reanimate every single possible interaction with horses,looting,interectating phisycaly with the world. It is not a simple fix, its re-doing this entire part of the game. could take years. Also, you can just think that he got fat in 8 years and thats it. They dont need to go all that extra work just for the epilogue. By doing this it means they can ship the game way earlier, and concetrate their efforts on something actually important. (wich they did) but his hair and face has no excuses thought, altought i believe they work just fine and sometimes im game development you have to make sacrifices. Its a miracle that a game like red dead 2 even exists, so its okay to have this compromises.
Um no that’s not true at all. With mods you can play as npc John with no issues at all with the animations. Plus a beta epilogue John character model that looked exactly like his npc model as well as a bunch of cut animations for him were found in the game files. He looks like Arthur for no reason at all. Also it wouldn’t take “years” and they wouldn’t have to redo anything lmao, it’s legit making a character model smaller…rockstar literally added the ability to make your rdo character skinny or fat or muscular and while they share all of Arthur’s animations they still work fine with no bugs.
Also no it’s impossible for you to look a certain way, turn into your dead friend and then go back to how you did years earlier. Just like how it’s impossible for John to have long dark brown greasy hair, have it turn into Arthur’s fuller set of hair but black now and then go back to how his hair looked like before.
@@BeatleHarrison Mods do not care if theres little bugs here and there. You have to accouny they were taking realism to extreme in this game, if they opted for Johns body they would indeed need to recheck a lot of things in a gigantic game. Im a 3D modeller, so i know its not an easy swap for the level of detail they are going, they would have to make another rig, weight paint it again, and test it in the world. Simply not worth the effort if you can get way with a simple fix. But you are right, his hair has no excuse, as i mentioned earlier. I mean just think of all the skining animations for instance, arthurs body perferctly interacts with all of them, Replacing it with a skinier moddle is bound to have unwanted things for rockstar level of detail. Clothes will also need to get an overhaul, on ALL of them. In the online, they dont go for that much realism in exchange for costumazing your charachter, so you see clothes clipping, and weird things going on when you are too skin or too fat. But realistacly speaking, in a avarage playtourght its not nocible, but thats not the main goal of their game, they take details to a MAX level, so they wouldnt do a buggy body on the epilogue. Even if just little bugs. Im not saying they are right, its just what they propose themlselfs to do.
@@gabrielg.2080 Did you not just read what I wrote? They already did all that lol. His beta model that resembles his npc model with a weight system was found in the game files along with a beta head, clothes and animations that work completely fine. They have minor clipping issues but guess what? His current epilogue model has WAYYYY more clipping issues than his beta model which is sad if that’s the best they could do. Plus John on 1.00 has smaller shoulders similar to rdr1 John and npc John and he worked completely fine with minor clipping issues that rockstar lazily fixed by giving him Arthur’s body type. Modders literally restored it back into the game with no issues whatsoever with it. It doesn’t break anything or do any of the things you claim will happen. Legit all they did was replace things lol. You’re not making any sense at all dude. It’ll break the game to restore the model and animations (despite the fact modders already did all that with no issues) but keeping
an actual broken character model is ok? You don’t know what you’re talking about
@@gabrielg.2080 Also clothes will not need an “overhaul” because that’s already been done both with beta John and 1.00 John… HELLO even rdo characters have clothes that fit them with different weight types and hairstyles. You forgot you can change their weight with eating too right? They can do that with online but not John? I’m giving you literal proof that it’s not at all hard or complex as you’re making it out to be because again it’s already been done with beta John, 1.00 John and rdo characters. If a modder can do it with no issues imagine what rockstar could do if they’d stop being lazy and just replace the model with his 1.00 or beta model and give him his already finished animations and hairstyles as well as his npc clothes
It was still fun but the whole world just seemed to die when Arthur did, and I don't mean that in some metaphorical way it just felt like I had been practically everywhere and done everything except run around a mostly empty desert that I didn't get to explore as Arthur. It makes me want to do a playthrough where I rush through the story with Arthur and only do the missable stuff and save as much as possible for John and see how different it is.
Great vid Waxy! Epilogue Part 1 was the most enjoyable time I ever had playing despite happening so soon after Arthur's death, it was a genuinely great experience as the Origin story for John. With New Austin being added on late in development and the plot holes they created just by doing that really wouldn't have been a problem if Rockstar added some after release support to the Story Mode they spent 8 YEARS working on just to shift focus on an online mode they would also soon abandon. Thank you modders for doing what a multi-billion dollar company couldn't. o7
For real tho big thanks to modders, it just sucks for people like me on console. Thanks for ur comment and support! Also will u be uploading again soon? I would love to know
@@Waxyyy Maybe soon, life’s been rough and has kept me from working on videos. Nothing will stop me from commenting tho!
@@Tensifyed Hope everything goes well, thanks for commenting
The only thing I don’t like about the epilogue is that it begins literally 2 seconds after Arthur’s death so it doesn’t feel like 8 years since his death it feels like John and his family went to strawberry after meeting up I say this because after I finished the main story for the 3000th time it was late so I saved just before the wheel mission and went to bed then a few days later I play the epilogue and it actually felt like a while since Arthur’s death not 8 years long but still long
I kinda like the epilogue it gives you a break from all the massacres, shootings and robberies the main story gives you
I personally like the epilogue it shows you how john got the ranch and what happened before the events of the first game, but man I wish they gave him his outfits from rdr1 and his old hair style back, while half of rdr1 map was included (not Mexico) its honestly depressing that they didn't add any missions in it, not even a stranger mission aside from random encounters like the armadillo sheriff leaving somewhere else because of the delobo gang and the sheriff in tumble weed Taking full authority which would lead to the settlements demise, this is from a player that played rdr1 first
sadie adler's bounty missions were probably the most boring part for me (in epilogue at least) if I am being completely transparent. I am sure some of the dialogue between her and john are good, but the missions themselves are not. it involves you travelling a long way by horse to go after one dude and then a shootout of some kind always happens, then you capture them. the bounty hunter mission where you take the prisoner to jail but then his gang breaks him out, which could have been avoided if they weren't dumb by running away from the prison but what do I know.
I think the strange man once said or wrote something like "they have learned a lot but at the same time not learned anything at all" well you can apply that to john, but also sadie's dumbass. she's supposed to be an "experienced" bounty hunter but doesn't know how to handle being stabbed by a knife, nor does she think for a second that running after somebody's gang could be a trick to break their leader out of the jail.
she also clearly never learned that arthur says revenge is a fool's game, because that is literally her entire existence, from killing colm o'driscoll and a bunch of his boys who had no part in her husband's death at all other than a few of them that dutch's gang likely already killed, to killing a guy because "he was mean and he stole my bounty from me", to hunting after micah which nearly got her killed by the previously mentioned knife wound. revenge and killing are the only things ever present in her mind and people love that for some reason because she's a girl.
long comment I know, but I could do it fast or do it right, I chose to do it right.
tbh i love epilouge story. it feels diffrent and refreshing. it feels like watching a movie prolouge
Alot of new austin being unfinished is actually because of the map leak. New austin was NEVER meant to be in rdr2, but when the beta map was leaked people complained so they were pressured to rush it into the game. This is why there isnt a 1907 version of new austin, only the 1899 version (notice how no gravestones exceed 1899). So we cant fully blame the devs for running out of time when it was the community who ironically forced their hand to rush out the end of the game (the deadlines were set in stone)
ah yes it’s always the fans fault. fans didn’t force them to rush the game, the higher ups at rockstar and take two did. stop blaming fans for everything
@@ninjafrog6966 I didn't. I'm saying rockstar wouldn't have had to add new Austin in if the fans didn't whine about the leak. They had deadlines and unfortunately had to rush said deadlines due to someone leaking the map, in an ideal world rockstar would've had more time but they already had to delay it
@@plexyglass429so you’re saying you’re not blaming fans, while blaming fans
@@ninjafrog6966 No I'm saying it's the fans fault, I misconstrued your comment. It's the fans fault but they inadvertently ruined epilogue by causing rockstar to have to scrap some of the game and extend development past their deadline
The change of pacing in the Epilogue was definitely a bit jarring on my first playthrough, but I've grown to absolutely love it upon replays. It's such a nice way to finish the epic story and really bridges the gap between the games.
I think the issue of John not having his own model probably has to with cutscenes for stranger missions, they would have recast all cutscenes just to suit John model ( as you know John model in pre epilogue is different from Arthur) which would have added a lot more development time
Well with mods it actually works. Remember they had different body in 1.00 version and it worked just fine
@@weplo1597 not really there were a bunch of bugs and glitches with his model and clothes especially in cutscenes
@@purehollow I've played on 1.00 version and used mods to restore body and had no issues with it. I also did 100% a few times on both versions and watched every cutscene. And I can tell a small clipping is much better than an entire model being a weird
@@weplo1597 Rockstar doesn't agree with you apparently
Nope rockstar had already done that, in the files a beta head and character model for John was found that already had proper fitment as well as animations and hairstyles and clothes that rockstar cut for no issue since they work fine. He looks the way he does for no reason
The main story is a beautifully written journey about a man forced to come to terms with his past mistakes while getting a terrible sickness that makes him see the people he knew the way they really are and slowly losing faith in all of them, but the epilogue and rdr1 is just a fucking cowboy action movie with an overpowered gunslingin outlaw and i love it
Sadie bossing you around makes no sense. Sure she’s capable but she takes the lead way too much and is seemingly bossing John around on all her missions and never shuts up. I feel like she should have gotten killed off when she raided the odriscols ranch or at least become content. Definitely not playing the role of John’s boss, they could’ve introduced a whole different character for that or just done it with Charles or uncle
I'll tell you why it's like that. Feminist bullshit.
For me it's a little more than the look. Rockstar Should've done a job at lining John's charecter up with his rdr1 self. As he is a lot more expressive and shows emotion was less subtlety now. It's okay back in 1899 cause john is only 26 but with 8 years passing he still seems the same. RDR1 John had a very matter of fact tone, had more subtlety in the acting, was sorta cold, but always had funny quips, one liners and a sense of humor with a lot of sarcasm. But not here and that always kinda bothered me. It feels like they made John more like Arthur
The problem with the epilogue can be summed up with two words: Abagail Roberts. She always complains about John every step of the way.
I love the epilogue, it’s honestly one of my favorite pets to play. It’s nice having a different spin on the game.
The epilogue made me want to hurt a child because of jack…he makes me so mad!
I love any story with a dramatic change in itself at some point. Example, JAWS, first 2/3rds is like a small town murder mystery, and then the last 1/3rd is an epic sea adventure. The epilogue of RDR2 is like that, and I for one loved it. Gave the game an even more epic feel once you got to the mountain top for its climax. Perfect game.
Even with 31 patches they couldn’t even get one chance to fix my boy. They just made him worse 😭
I’ve found a pretty good look for John, or at least the best I could get on console:
- Level 5 right parted fade with pomade
- Level 3 pencil stache, with level 2 chops and level 1 chin
As someone who considers Red Dead Redemption 2 to be one of the greatest games of all time, I completely agree with everything here, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was disappointed by these things.
The original Red Dead Redemption is my favorite video game of all time, and John Marston might be my favorite video game protagonist out there. Not just because he was such a badass, but because his mission was for the most noble cause: To reunite with his family.
An immediate thing I noticed in the epilogue was John's clumsiness. Sure, it might be because he's still learning how to be a decent man, but he just seems like he does whatever he's told all of the time (Although he does kill Micah despite Abigail's protests)
New Austin is the biggest problem in my opinion. It's just a pathetic wasteland in the second game. The only thing I like about it is the new desert iguanas that are there.
Besides John not being Marston. I liked the epilogue. Seeing John and Abigale happy was both endearing and heart wrenching knowing what would come. ❤😥
with how amazing the rest of the game is, new austin was such a dissapointment. its like you get punished after completing arthurs story.
Like I said they should’ve made a dlc with a new character in New Austin, rdr2 mostly takes place away from the true wild west so it could’ve been a great way of adding classic west imagery, thanks for ur comment zonkers inc!
@@Waxyyy I think New Austin should've been setting of the final Chapter, it would've made more sense and been more fitting than Roanoke Ridge. Since the whole game they've been away from the west heading further east until they finally go back to the West they've been dreaming of but now under different circumstances with the gang deeply divided.
@@themadtitan7603 That’s brilliant idea, makes a lot of sense also. Wish they did that
I know it's not canon because of RDR1 but it'll be really cool if they add a feature to upgrade the ranch and make it a bit like a tycoon
I heard that John's model got hacked and ruined, and Rockstar wanted to get the game out asap so they just pasted John onto Arthur
Maybe
That’s not true at all
literally not true at all
I hope and pray that for the 5 year anniversary of RDR2 R* makes an update that completely fixes epilogue John.
He has Arthur's body bc originally Arthur’s body type bc Arthur was suppose to live and be able to go to black water and all.
That’s not true like at all. He has Arthur’s body cuz rockstar got lazy even though they already had one for John that they cut
@@BeatleHarrisonDo ya even know how development works?
Try lifting everyday pack of bags from one location to another for hours.
@@SeriousDragonify Old comment my G, go get a girlfriend. Also your insult was stupid af. Have a good day
The body thing was most likely the fast way to get all clothing to fit. instead of having to make sure the textures look right on 2 bodies isntead you make it look right on one.
Nope that’s actually incorrect, rockstar had already done that as proven by a beta head model and character model found in the files that has the proper fitment for clothes and hairstyles. They also found cut animations and clothes for John that rockstar cut. John looks the way he does in the epilogue for no reason other than hatred for the character
After finishing the game the first time, the fact that there was an epilogue I was so excited to have some more content to play. This is nitpicking
I get it, I never said the story of epilogue was bad I just meant some of the things in it were disappointing, like John and New Austin
Just because you criticize something, it doesn't mean you're not grateful for it or think it's worthless. This is constrictive criticism, not blind hate or nitpicking for the sake of it.
Here comes the salty fanboy with his toxic positivity.
Nitpicking because people don’t Ike how rushed it was? Bro stop being such a fanboy lmao
@@BeatleHarrison Exactly
Programmer here, sometimes when you change the body type you have to repeat some of the mocap animations such as running etc. As they can cause weird glitches and clippings to happen, you can sometimes see that with Arthur while canooing his arms go through his body. Now the change isnt drastic from Arthur to Johns body type so I doubt that cohld happen but knowing rockstar and their perfectionism they would've made seperate animations for John which would cost them thousands of dollars and increase the game's size. They probably decided that it isn't worth it to spend that much effort into epilogue and went with Arthurs animations and body. Also why John looks better in trailer is probably because they originally intended John to have a separate body type but scrapped it. Reminds me of Rainbow Six Siege reveal trailer and how they reduced the quality. Anyways the reasons for Johns body are many: budget, bugs, maybe console limitations etc. Never worked with mocap just using the information I have as an embedded systems programmer
Sure, but in online version you can have many varieties of appearance, even an option to play as a female. And that looks way different from Arthur. So all these animations etc. for different types of appearance must have been in the game.
Nope rockstar had already done that, in the files a beta head and character model for John was found that already had proper fitment as well as animations and hairstyles and clothes that rockstar cut for no issue since they work fine. He looks the way he does for no reason
My biggest issue with the epilougue was Abigail she was just insufferable.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Wanted to throw her off a cliff after I finished the epilogue.
Nahh Abigail is fine
@@dreaminginvalhalla1914 to look at maybe?
woman bad
@@Jason17300 very
i know a lot of people have probably already said this, but id love to see another undead nightmare but except it takes place when arthurs alive and the gangs together. that or a remastered rdr1 in rdr2s engine
The cochinay music from rdr1 you played is quite spooky especially in tall trees at night. I think it's quite creepy especially in the final mission with Dutch in rdr1 and the mission before that where you scout out his camp.
What went wrong with the epilogue was that it wasn’t longer
It would be nice if there was a RDR3 and continue to see what John's life is like, before he dies in 1911, after that, it'd be nice to see some of Dutch's and Hosea's backstory, possibly we can play as three characters, a young Dutch, a young Hosea, and a young Arthur. And see all the gang members join, like Sadie, Abigail, Marybeth, or Uncle. They could also add the Blackwater ferry robbery, and maybe see a bit of what the gang was like before Chapter 1. And they could add a director mode like in GTA V. Basically the game starts in 1911 and goes back in time to like 1898, or January of 1899, before the ferry job. It's just a thought, it would be amazing if it happened, including an Undead Nightmare 2. This would be so great if Rockstar didn't just completely abandon it.
Personally, I would like it as a separate character who was in the gang and all events lead up to his death in the ferry robbery in blackwater.
I actually love the epilogue specifically if you love red dead redemption 1
RDR1 definitely had better Ambiance music
Agreed. I love how it uses the most epic parts of the tracks from missions for freeroam and it had a dynamic stem system that played different variations of the score depending on the situation. Plus, each region had its own theme instead of reusing the same 5-6 looped tracks everywhere.
Agree
I mean going from outlaw on the run to reformed outlaw trying to enough money to start a ranch I’d always going to be less fun but American Venom is as good of a mission as the game had and building John’s ranch was a ton of fun!
I just want to say I think it was a good idea to make new Austin feel "lifeless" I think having new Austin like a ghost state was a pretty good idea aesthetic and design wise
I respect that
how? theres no content there besdies tumbleweed and a few horses you can buy
thats a poor deisgn choice rockstar being lazy
What Red Dead Redemption 2 needed most was a large Single Player story expansion DLC that took advantage of the cut content, such as Nuevo Paraiso and Guarma, and use that as the basis for the setting (along with New Austin) of a new kind of side-story. perhaps one focusing on Javier Escuella and maybe also Bill WIlliamson, and what they got up to between the two games, and how it led them to where they were in Red Dead 1. especially Javier, since i feel like his character was ultimately somewhat underutilized.
Personally i think the epilogue was pretty great. reasonable to complain about the body model of John. i get it. that being said i ultimately feel as if Rockstar truly screwed things up by not focusing on doing a more legitimate expansion.
Story mode dlc cost alot of money and it isnt as profitable as a online dlc
I agree with your observations, especially the ambient music in rdr1, adding a unique feeling of being alone for some reason. Consequently, this is one of the reasons I think rdr1 is a better game. Not graphics, obviously.
My biggest problem with this new John was his lack of personality, specifically his legendary sh*t talking. Where the hell is it?!? I remember first getting a hold of him in "JM rides again" and thinking "finally I get to be the gun slinging, ass kicking, poncho wearing, sh*t talking bad ass from rdr1" and then.....nothing?!?...insert cricket sounds. Could not believe it! How could R*s entire editing team overlook such an important detail?
Surprised weihoff (forgot spelling) didn't say, "Where's all the insults and taunting John is known for?" Then again, maybe he did. Who knows...
Anyway, it's a great game despite these issues. Good observations on your end.
Guess I'll leave you to it then.. 👊
Bro I know his trash talking in the first game is legendary, “YOU CANT SHOT A FART OUT UR OWN ASS” sigma. But I still liked the epilogue overall but it could’ve used some extra time in the oven yk
the reason they did that was to make arthur the new better protagonist. johns look does not really tick me off because id always play in first person view but his talking is just weird sometimes, its like im playing a version of john that would be 30 years older than the first games version and hes settled down or something.
It's simple to explain..
John's personality went to Arthur's to make him the better protagonist in this game.
Arthur's personality is just John's personality in RDR.
They stolen that from him..
Fun fact, RDR2 was supposed to have taunting and trash-talk during gunfights, with a bunch of fitting voicelines for a bunch of scenarios, depending on if you're high or low honor, how many enemies you're fighting, what types of enemies you're fighting, how far away everyone is, etc. etc. but was cut with all the dialogue for both Arthur and John still in the files.
Modders restored a lot of them and it brings back a lot of what you're saying is missing
I love the epilogue, it’s fantastic. But I really want John’s OG 1911 face, I’m fine with Arthur’s body, I just want John’s OG face.
I was enjoying the epilogue, but similar to the main game, it kinda ends out of nowhere
Bro this need to change, we need to change john hair from 1899, his body, and in rdr1 u can roll instead of jumping and diving likemax payne, Rockstar we need to talk
By far my biggest problem with the epilogue story wise has to be the amount of filler it has with Sadie's shitty bounty hunting missions and the fact that Jack, one of the central characters of RDR1 barely gets any screentime aside from the horse riding lesson and fishing mission. Many people may disagree but I personally think Sadie and Charles shouldn't have been in the epilogue. Charles' character already got a perfect ending in chapter 6 and Sadie already avenged her husband. All that time we spent with Charles and Sadie could have been spent on further developing John's relationship with Jack and Abigail.
Also, John sucks in RDR2. He is by far one of the most boring Rockstar protagonists personality wise and Rob Wiethoff's mediocre performance doesn't help, I know that sounds harsh but I just had to get it out of my system and tell the truth. However this does undermine RDR1 or Rob's fantastic performance in that game. If RDR1 never existed I bet everyone would be complaining about how shit John is. Which is a shame because John Marston was one of the best if not THE best Rockstar protagonist prior to RDR2, both in terms of personality, looks and relatability.
LOL how did Wiethoff perform mediocre? Both Arthur and John's voice actors are top tier and did a great job
I can understand why you don't like John in rdr2, but saying rob had a bad performance? That's just a straight up lie. He sounded much more enthusiastic to be playing John this time compared to part 1. John has a lot of issues in part 2, rob isn't one of em
Imo In the first rdr, except for his badass as a character, John did not arouse interest
@@GLKHD Arthur and Roger's performance is completely fine, so was John and Rob in RDR1. In RDR2 on the other hand... it's a pretty mixed bag. Some lines are delivered perfectly and feel natural while others feel phoned it and delivered in a pretty cheesy way, like Rob was reading off a script instead of actually becoming John. Also, John stutters A LOT in RDR2, I can't help but to think sometimes that maybe that wasn't in the script but Rob forgetting the line and they just let that shit stay. It's hard to explain but it's usually when John yells & gets angry or when Rob's voice is overly raspy when the performance feels off, It's like the line is delivered well but the tone of his voice doesn't match well what he's saying.
@@BioshockDrill Rob's performance wasn't completely bad, I said it was mediocre because it's a mixed bag. Some of the performances that Rob pulled off were great in RDR2 whereas others were not and felt phoned it and didn't sound like it was the best performance he could pull off. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Rob Wiethoff as a person, from what I've seen he's an extremely nice and joyful person who clearly can act. With that said I do feel like his performance could have been a little bit better had they given him another take or two. It's especially jarring because John is the only character in RDR2 that doesn't give a consistent top tier performance.
I think the reason people dislike epilogue is because it sucks out most of the freedom that you've been used to playing as Arthur. You have to do all this linear shit like go to Strawberry, get to pronghorn ranch, just do what the story tells you to do for a bit. It's like you're being forced to redo the tutorial.
I love the epilogue. I look forward to it
It can't be only me who just sees dutch when I look at epilogue marston's upper half of the face.
I think New Austin is fine, having it be a shell of its former self kinda works (in a way) as an explanation for John revisiting it in the future 'for the first time', you know, when it's an actual bustling county. It gave this constant feeling of danger, isolation and sadness at what came before. Armadillo plagued, Tumbleweed run by a highly corrupt sheriff, Del Lobos terrorising the place. I liked it at least.
My biggest gripe is the money you get after killing Micah. What's the point in doing any of the side content that just makes money when you basically have an infinite supply? They should've just given you Arthur's money back or a couple thousand dollars at most.
yeah but new austin blatantly just doesn’t make sense to be this different in a 4 year span. this makes sense in 1899, which is what the actual new austin map is, but not 1907. the new austin map isn’t from 1907, it’s from 1899
The only thing that hurts is right after we mourn Arthur Jack hits us with the knights of the round table “well there’s Arthur” too soon Jack!
Funny thing is, i had no idea about the sheer amount of game breaking bugs the game has, because first time when i played it, i didn't pay too much attention about the game and i pretty much speed run the game since i was interested in the story only.
Rockstar didn't even bothered to fix these bugs to this day, it's really a shame.
actual reason they didnt do john's body was cause they couldnt have been bothered to remodel every piece of clothing to fit it
Nope rockstar had already done that, in the files a beta head and character model for John was found that already had proper fitment as well as animations and hairstyles and clothes that rockstar cut for no issue since they work fine. He looks the way he does for no reason
In epliogue John act like he has been running for 7 days, not seven years.
Agreed
My biggest issue is John finding all the money from blackwater in general rdr2 gives you too much money. In the main story I never felt compelled to rob a stagecoach or shops or a train because money was so easy to come by
I really really wish RDR2 Online took place after the epilogue instead of before the campaign
I think that the epilogue should take place only at West Elizbeth, most on Black Water at Great Plains and Tall Trees, cause on rdr1 John himself mentions that he never been into New Austin, so that place is all new to him. I think Rockstar should had been blocked the acess to New Austin at the Epilogue, and then some time later, release a DLC were we control Javier Escuella at New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso, just right after he leaves Dutch and Bill to come back to Mexico, being a kind of prequel explaining more about the New Austin and Nuevo Paraíso lore (like what happened at Tumbleweed? How Del Lobos went from the dominant gang to pratically inexistent on rdr1? How Javier went from an outlaw rebel, from a Army hired bounty Hunter? Theres lots of questions like this unsolved...
The way I look at it, as far John's epilogue look goes. John would have to sport a different hairstyle or length to disguise himself, being on the run as a former member of a notorious gang.
I wish they would have had a more gradual switch from working at the Pronghorn Ranch to owning your own . And then once you build the ranch, Sadie and Charles leave, never to be heard from or seen again . There should have been the opportunity to do more outings with Abigail, Jack and/or Uncle . There are only a handful of bounty hunting jobs to do . Then, once you have the money to buy the ranch, there really isn't anything left to do that you need that much money for . Also would have been nice to be able to go hunting and bring food back to the table as you could in the main part of the game with the gang , but Abigail complains about not having enough food , but you can't actually do anything about it .
Had they cut Guarma & made it so the gang floated down river to Austin making the chapter about having to stay low to find a way back wouldve been perfect for breathing life into the place.
What would have been smart is to have released the epilogue at a later time. John’s section could have easily been a DLC.
Only reason I can figure they did the retexture trick is because John can be swapped out for Arthur in many side quests if the player didn’t do them [their dialogue is more or less the same too]. With mocap and the like, the may have been rigging issues with two different models for those cutscenes. If there was any time constraints on production that would of fed into that decision.
Reason why some of the places are missing buildings is because it wasn’t built till later on the story that’s why the Macfarlane Ranch doesn’t have the barn like Red dead 1
Nope, the NA map is the same as the 1899 online version. Rockstar just didn’t feel like re adding the buildings. Also that makes no sense since Bonnie said the barn was built when she was a little girl…… it should be there
but in RDR1, bonnie literally explains that it’s been there since she was a little girl, so it makes zero sense for it to not be built yet since the epilogue is only a 4 year time difference between it and the events of RDR1
People who played rdr1 first: “OH MY GOD JOHN’S LEFT EYEBALL HAS BEEN REPLACED A CENTIMETRE TO THE RIGHT IT’S SO INNACURATE!!!!!!!”
Yea an eyeball equals to John’s entire model being Arthur but reskinned. You’re smart I can tell
Honestly if John just looked like actual John and not Jorthur I wouldn’t mind anything else. I have no issues with the rest of the Epilogue, even how empty it feels, just fucking fix John
Wow I agree with pretty much everything he said. I always thought John looked a little off in the epilogue but never knew this was why, I thought it was just his hair.
I wish we got a little more to do with John in the epilogue as well, his story was really just avenging Arthur and bridging RDR2 with RDR1 and quickly catching up with his family, Uncle, Sadie and Charles. So I really wish they went all out on a RDR2 expansion like they did with GTA4's Lost and Damn and TBGT but this time getting to play as Sadie and Charles getting to see how their stories played out afterwards and maybe even another small storyline for John. But I know online has replaced expansion which sucks.
And I really agree and disliked that New Austin felt so empty and boring and they didn't even bother with Mexico. The ending of the game (epilogue, New Austin and no Mexico) feels so rushed. And the lack of expansions or care for Red Dead Online is very dissapointing. This game is a masterpiece but it could have been even better if they finished strong and gave the title and it's fans the respect they deserved.
The reason New Austin is dead is because it wasnt planned in the game, in a 2016 map leak it wasnt in the game IIRC and when people saw the leak they were pissed, and rockstar tried to add it in and due to a time crunch,pressure from the fanbase it was just released with minor content
I hate how there is no barn at MacFarlanes ranch despite them mentioning it’s been there longer or about the same time Bonnie had been alive in the first game
Personally, I was thankful for the epilogue. They didn't have to do all that... they probably could have just cut to John Marston, current day already on the farm, as if he was reading the whole story from Arthur's journal... The whole game, everything we experienced was John reading it the whole time. But they gave us more. I am disappointed with John's look... especially when I do see mods and he looks incredible. But I'm not disappointed with New Austin... They didn't have to give us that part of the map. They could have left it out exclusively for Rrd 1 especially since, even stated in this video... Rdr 1 is supposed to be the first time he goes there. So it feels weird to me that I'm even there at all before meeting Bonnie and everything.... There are rumours going around about a Red Dead Redemption remaster or remake, so we'll see how John might look in that. And who knows, maybe they'll even try and patch John and Red Dead Redemption 2 to match it.
i think it was done like that so people could feel like they were still playing as arthur after he has died..
I don’t think so
@@Waxyyy you are probably right, but there are so many angles of john that still looks like arthur...
@@Waxyyy that makes absolutely no sense 😂
@@maddog6974 I got really pissed when I got to the epilogue SPECIFICALLY because of that. You can't just kill a character that everyone gets emotionally attached to just to then say "oh, he's dead, aight well here's an identical replacement"
It also completely ruins the shot of John in "Jim Milton Rides Again" where he does the promotional art pose. Even as someone who never played the first game, I still think that's bullshit
Bs?? Wym