Brilliant video. Every builder should watch this as part of their continuing education, whether they build like this or not. Adding a mini 2x6 floor in the attic so insulation can go all the way to the edge of the frame is such a cool/hot idea.
Amusing to see that Inspectors not knowing their own rules is a universal thing! A different industry, but the sentiment is the same...... "If you can't do it..... Teach it." "If you can't teach it.... Examine it......." "If you can't do any of that, go and work for your Governing body as an Inspector."
I'm curious why the reference code you are calling out is ICC policies; which, I thought was mostly for multi-family, or commercial builds and IRC is for single family homes. Am i in error?
Lost me on the roof framing. Really tired of this idea that the roof is just a cap that never needs to be accessed for maintenance of any kind. Even a truss system can be engineered with access paths built in instead of requiring people to carefully navigate framing members buried in 10” of blown in insulation.
First cost is important but also cost of ownership this equals total cost over a period years … I used traditional framing bc it was cheaper first cost than adv. framing and installed exterior insulation and R15 in the cavity … I built in 2024
I'm sorry, but how is putting more studs in the wall cheaper first cost? Using OVE or Advanced Framing means fewer studs, fewer nails, and less framing labor, with marginally more insulation costs, which should save you more overall.
Interesting you are advocating for standard code (minimum) in the floor system with L/360 and not the better L/480. You usually talk about building better than code standards and minimum’s.
@@virtueofhate1778insulation codes vary by region, much like windshear and other things that are subjective to the climate are location.... Earthquake codes
@2:55 that argument doesn't work, because it just comes down to "do you want spend more now to have lower utility bills in the future?" There's no one right answer, because it's a matter of time preference, which will naturally vary among different people.
This is not a comprehensive framing overview without discussing post frame framing (that can be in timber framing, pole barn or post-n-beam iterations). You have MUCH more room for insulation than 24” oc framing and the wall can be entirely thermally-broken with no additional effort. Materials prices are a little higher with post frame, but it’s a superior way to build. My standard post-n-beam frames are thermally-broken R38 walls and R53 roof assemblies. of course even more insulation can be added with upsized cavities or exterior foamboard.
@@matt45540 it actually dates back to the medieval and Egyptian days. Very traditional and very well-suited for modern open-concept type architecture since you don't need any load-bearing walls.
Once I did the performance math for 16oc vs 24oc, converting R to U values, calculating stud & cavity %'s, multiple U's by %'s, adding them up and convert back to total wall R value. I used several combinations and the gains were minor, I remember only +10% if double plate or not, in some cases 16oc out perform 24oc cause some 16" insulation batts are R-2 higher 24" batts. Throw in windows and air leakage in mix, and stud spacing doesn't really matter. In some area exterior insulation is must, making it even less important. IMHO, 16 oc is better though, stronger wall, and stud increments land closer for more conventional window/door openings.
A 10% gain on the largest portion of your power bills over the course of 100 years is huge. And you can put a door literally wherever you want you might just need an extra stud or two to meet code If you're only putting a door where a stud is conveniently that's just lazy
@@matt45540 It`s small factor in whole house performance, investing in air tightens, ERV and high performance windows will have much larger impact than stud spacing.
If you really want to blow your mind, do the figures on Post-Frame with 96"oc. Just looking at an 8ft x 8ft section of wall with no fenestrations to keep the math simple, the main cavity is less than 5% wood. What is 16oc? I think it's more than 3 times that. If you also insulate between the exterior girts, that layer is 23% wood, but it only has a 0.7-1.1% thermal bridge between the two layers, depending on if you're using 2x4 or 2x6 girts respectively. It's kind of ridiculous.
@PazLeBon its more than just lumber size. Its convenience, every time i want to hang a TV or anything on the wall i have to modify stuff to make it work, no thanks.
I mean if you do the math on 100’ of wall. there’s about 15 more board feet of lumber in a 2x6 wall on 24s vs a 2x4 wall on 16s. Thats not much of a difference but More lumber means more stronger 😉.
Brilliant video. Every builder should watch this as part of their continuing education, whether they build like this or not.
Adding a mini 2x6 floor in the attic so insulation can go all the way to the edge of the frame is such a cool/hot idea.
36” on center is all the rave with the kids these days, and we are going to be getting rid of studs completely here in 2025!
Pfff, I'm designing our retirement home with 96"oc. Like, seriously.
An excellent demonstration of systems thinking, and buildings are nothing if not systems. Thank you, Jake.
For my build, the PWF is framed at 12” OC, with the main level at 24” OC. Everything lines up perfectly
pwf?
ton of information i found very interesting, thanks.
i would be curious what Tommy from This Old House thinks about 24 OC
Well done!!
It's disconcerting when you're not looking at the camera. Good information. Thanks for the vid!
Amusing to see that Inspectors not knowing their own rules is a universal thing!
A different industry, but the sentiment is the same......
"If you can't do it..... Teach it."
"If you can't teach it.... Examine it......."
"If you can't do any of that, go and work for your Governing body as an Inspector."
The most advanced framing for a house is ICF.
Great to learn a few things. Thanks. id still prefer the mental security of 16oc, in truth id go 12oc if had the budget haha
And now housing is more unaffordable than ever.
lol
I'm curious why the reference code you are calling out is ICC policies; which, I thought was mostly for multi-family, or commercial builds and IRC is for single family homes. Am i in error?
great video and you sound great at 1.5x
Lost me on the roof framing. Really tired of this idea that the roof is just a cap that never needs to be accessed for maintenance of any kind. Even a truss system can be engineered with access paths built in instead of requiring people to carefully navigate framing members buried in 10” of blown in insulation.
If you remove all of your mechanicals from that space what do you really need to get up there for
How are they saving money with using screws, screws are very expensive. I think those are 20 to 30 bucks a box.
First cost is important but also cost of ownership this equals total cost over a period years … I used traditional framing bc it was cheaper first cost than adv. framing and installed exterior insulation and R15 in the cavity … I built in 2024
How much exterior insulation? Must be a warm climate
@ I installed 2.5” R15.6 plus R15 in the cavity
@@garymitchell7551Oh nice, that’s solid. Foam? Most others are around R4 per inch.
@ the house is in northern Alabama and the insulation polyiso outside and Rockwool inside
I'm sorry, but how is putting more studs in the wall cheaper first cost? Using OVE or Advanced Framing means fewer studs, fewer nails, and less framing labor, with marginally more insulation costs, which should save you more overall.
Interesting you are advocating for standard code (minimum) in the floor system with L/360 and not the better L/480. You usually talk about building better than code standards and minimum’s.
Do people ACTUALLY STILL argue about house wrap instead of ZIP? WHY??? ZIP is so obviously superior, its not even worth discussing, IMO.
Well, both are completely unnessesary if you know anything about how houses should be built in cold climate.
@@virtueofhate1778 we arent all in cold tho are we
@@PazLeBon Exactly and that's why it's kind of stupid to have some universal building standards regardless of the climate.
@@virtueofhate1778 sure, but safety things like spans etc make sense :)
@@virtueofhate1778insulation codes vary by region, much like windshear and other things that are subjective to the climate are location.... Earthquake codes
Code became meaningless to me when they approved cardboard sheathing. Engineered, my back side.
@2:55 that argument doesn't work, because it just comes down to "do you want spend more now to have lower utility bills in the future?" There's no one right answer, because it's a matter of time preference, which will naturally vary among different people.
There's a payback period, But the investments always worth it if you're going to be the owner of the home
This is not a comprehensive framing overview without discussing post frame framing (that can be in timber framing, pole barn or post-n-beam iterations). You have MUCH more room for insulation than 24” oc framing and the wall can be entirely thermally-broken with no additional effort. Materials prices are a little higher with post frame, but it’s a superior way to build. My standard post-n-beam frames are thermally-broken R38 walls and R53 roof assemblies. of course even more insulation can be added with upsized cavities or exterior foamboard.
I like it too, but it's definitely not a traditional house layout and a lot of people are afraid of things that aren't traditional.
@@matt45540 it actually dates back to the medieval and Egyptian days. Very traditional and very well-suited for modern open-concept type architecture since you don't need any load-bearing walls.
Once I did the performance math for 16oc vs 24oc, converting R to U values, calculating stud & cavity %'s, multiple U's by %'s, adding them up and convert back to total wall R value.
I used several combinations and the gains were minor, I remember only +10% if double plate or not, in some cases 16oc out perform 24oc cause some 16" insulation batts are R-2 higher 24" batts. Throw in windows and air leakage in mix, and stud spacing doesn't really matter. In some area exterior insulation is must, making it even less important.
IMHO, 16 oc is better though, stronger wall, and stud increments land closer for more conventional window/door openings.
A 10% gain on the largest portion of your power bills over the course of 100 years is huge. And you can put a door literally wherever you want you might just need an extra stud or two to meet code If you're only putting a door where a stud is conveniently that's just lazy
@@matt45540 It`s small factor in whole house performance, investing in air tightens, ERV and high performance windows will have much larger impact than stud spacing.
If you really want to blow your mind, do the figures on Post-Frame with 96"oc. Just looking at an 8ft x 8ft section of wall with no fenestrations to keep the math simple, the main cavity is less than 5% wood. What is 16oc? I think it's more than 3 times that. If you also insulate between the exterior girts, that layer is 23% wood, but it only has a 0.7-1.1% thermal bridge between the two layers, depending on if you're using 2x4 or 2x6 girts respectively. It's kind of ridiculous.
i would never buy a 24 OC home, thats just me.
even if framed with 4x12? ok
Lolll idiot
@PazLeBon its more than just lumber size. Its convenience, every time i want to hang a TV or anything on the wall i have to modify stuff to make it work, no thanks.
@@durangodave you can hang plenty off a 12 inch post , can rail it like a fence haha
I mean if you do the math on 100’ of wall. there’s about 15 more board feet of lumber in a 2x6 wall on 24s vs a 2x4 wall on 16s. Thats not much of a difference but More lumber means more stronger 😉.
Or, the diff in price of a 2x4 or 2x6 stud......( A LOT...)
80's was 186$ 1000 boardfeet now 597 (was 1467)
Next Americans will "invent" that headers are in general an unnessesary complication if you just turn the other top plate on its side.
That is true to an extent, good idea
I'm gonna use this on my next job. Can I credit you?
Or I just go with post frame and ditch the headers entirely other than over the garage doors. :P
@@niktak1114 I can't take credit from something that has been the standard way of building for decades in northern Europe.