Lots of franchises are burning because modern “creatives” are eager to ruin the work of their predecessors. But it’s a special kind of nihilism where a creative destroys his OWN billion dollar fan favorite
Maybe they would like to do their own stuff but they don't get jobs with doing their original work, which btw you will never know if it's good because they didn't get to make it
@@m0-m0597 In some cases, that's definitely true, like Star Trek Discovery basically entirely looks like a group of writers who wanted to do sci-fi but didn't want to do the Star Trek universe, so they find every excuse possible to distance the show from the actual universe they're supposed to be writing in. They seemed to want to write something closer to Battlestar Galactica, but ended up with Star Trek. The thing is that writers who can't write for established characters usually suck at writing in general, because it shows they don't understand the source material. I don't mean just memorizing the lore and canon, but I'm talking basic thematic concepts like "what is this story about?" A lot of the problem is they don't want to pay good money for talented writers. Famous authors like George RR Martin, Stephen King, JK Rowling, etc, are fantastically wealthy. Meanwhile the pay was so bad for Hollywood writers that they've had to had writers strikes and it's the bad ones that are striking, which should tell you something. Pay a crap wage and you get fanfic writers using ChatGPT to write scripts and they come as garbage.
That's not how you apologise. You apologise by rewatching the first movie, appreciating that the Joker is a villain and you don't root for the villain. You're supposed to just feel horrified at how Arthur flipped (you can still feel sorry that Arthur's life hasn't been as great as he'd wish). Then you watch the second movie.
@@johnmiller5679I think the Taika Waititi reference was about Thor Ragnarok and Thor Love & Thunder being his first MCU but not his overall filming credits...
Whereas the first movie was the tragic descent of a mentally ill man that society mistreated and then forgot about; this movie is like one LONG humiliation ritual, designed specifically to avoid or ruin everything people liked about the first movie.
What did you want? Arthur to persevere and overcome some odds so you can cheer him killing innocent people? He was never someone to identify with or sympathize with. Empathize, sure, to a point. He wasn't even the actual Joker. First movie was ok, Phoenix gave a great performance but it was a weird not really a Joker movie. This movie makes sense for the character of Arthur. If you're viewing this as THE Joker or identifying with Arthur, then you're just making yourself angry for no reason. If you were dumb enough to pay for it, sure I guess be mad.
@maotendoo I *wanted* there to be no sequel to begin with. The first movie was totally fine as its own thing. This movie just feels like having a firework fall off the stand and shoot sideways into the neighbour's dog. Its a *disaster*
@@filipvadas7602 That's fair. I didn't want one either and had no interest once I heard "Gaga" and "musical". Watched it to just see the train wreck. I think people on all sides are projecting things onto both movies. There was some interesting stuff in the 2nd but overall I understand how people hate it.
What I had heard was that Todd intended for the audience to hate the Joker, that's how he wrote the first movie. And he was super mad that people ended up liking him and relating to him. If that's true than it explains a lot with this sequel.
How do you spend over 2 hours illustrating how society has continuously dumped on a person, and then turn around and tell us that that PERSON is the problem? Maybe if they wanted us to hate the Joker, they shouldn't have given us an origin story describing him as the underdog... Maybe, just maybe, the comics knew what they were doing when they left his backstory ambiguous...
It doesn't make sense. Even Tarantino praised Todd for making us want to see the Joker shoot that TV host. You don't do that be accident. It's rather that Todd felt apologetic to the the Hollywood elites and had to make amends.
I call it the Waititi Effect; giving someone far too much money and creative freedom owing to their past success with a project expecting lightning to strike twice.
This movie can't make me angry. I had no hope for it being good. I saw the response the writers and director had to the way people were enjoying the first movie. They were appalled and apologetic about "violence inspired by the movie" which was exactly zero violence. Frozen 2 screenings saw more blood than any Joker screening. But the movie had said something dangerous to a modern audience. It has said that eventually someone who is kept down by the authorities will stand up. Can't have that. Can't be putting no wild ideas into the white man's head. So Joker 2 was made. To remind the white man of what the authorities promise to do to him if he steps out of line. Joker 2 was salvageable. The first half is pretty much okay as a lead up to a big courtroom reversal. Where the Joker fires his lawyer and demands to defend himself. He just comes out clean says he did all of it, but he is still entitled to a trial. There is no split personality. The Joker is simply Arthur Fleck who has had one really bad day (ZOMG REFERENCE!!!) The question of guilt is over. But the system is tied to it's own rules. It can't just simply convict him there and then. They HAVE to let him put on a defense. And he spends the whole defense assigning guilt to society. The Joker isn't responsible for his action. The system that MADE the Joker is. If we had lived in a different society (ZOMG REFERENCE!!!) Arthur Fleck would have been a healthy young boy, making friends, going to school, getting a job where he feels he did things that mattered. But we don't live in that society (ZOMG DOUBLE REFERENCE!!!) We live in this one. That chews people up and spits them out expecting them to just lie there and rot. Even the ending is usable. Mid closing tirade the bomb goes off exactly as it does in this movie. Joker is dragged from the courtroom unconscious by his fans. And we see him regain consciousness in the back of the car. His fans are jabbering excited. MAD with glee! And he laughs. Cut to credits. You have just made another billion dollars. Joker 2 is the WEAKNESS of the creatives behind the movie on full display. They would lie there and rot.
Heck, if Lady Gaga's Lee has to be in there, you could easily have her lead the charge to pull him out, then show her embracing him when he wakes up in the car.
Yup, these are one of those times that I'm thankful that my Braves aren't owned by these dumb bastards at Warner Brothers like they used to from 2001-2007.
"One can take many things from a man but not his thought" - have no idea who said this but the point is agreeing with you. Joker is an idea and idea is contagious. By doing dirty to Joker 2, they try to kill the idea. No billions dollar is worth if, by any chance, one day Joker will come out of the screen and start walking on the street. Hollywood cannot have that happen.
I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Joker was about race at all. The movie is all about class: rich vs poor. It's very left-leaning. You are right it was a dangerous topic for modern audiences. Unsurprisingly the people at the top aren't appreciative of any kind of messaging about someone coming after them. They can care less about the lower classes fighting amongst themselves, but when people start to punch up instead of kick down... that's what they don't want you to think about.
Why do you think Warner Bros wanted this movie to be made and released the way it was? Don't you think Warner Bros wanted this movie to do amazingly and resonate with it's audience?
Most people who watched the first film probably didn't condone what Arthur has done, but even understanding and empathizing was apparently too much. Because the people that made it have no compassion whatsoever.
The saddest part is that the idea of having these iterations of Joker and Harley, who are more extremely damaged people more than anything else, slowly evolve into a murderous, villanous power couple through their shared delusions COULD have been really cool. In fact, I think that's where most people thought the sequel was going, myself included. That would have actually been a somewhat fresh new take on their relationship too. The only other times we had something like this was in the godawful Suicide Squad (2016) where Joker seemed to *actually* care about Harley on a deeper level and Telltale where Joker/John Doe *actually* wanted to be better, both mentally and as a person, but Harley kept pulling him towards the dark side with her.
The delusion was in just as much of much of the audience as it was in Arthur thinking that Harley could care about Arthur. Much of the audience's delusion was thinking that someone who murders 6 people in sometimes gruesome way should ever be regarded as somewhat heroic. I am so pleased that the sequel essentially told the audience to grow up and appreciate human beings. The movie is essentially saying 'Be more like Batman'.
@@DoubleClefFm Which just goes to show how incredibly entitled Phillips and Phoenix are. They made truckloads of money from the first and got two Academy Awards. Their thank you to the audience for paying their next mansions and swimming pools is this.
If Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix felt so strongly that the original JOKER was a one-off and wasn't meant or needed to have a sequel, they should have refused to participate. They couldn't resist the $$$big bucks$$$ the studio offered them. Both of them have no integrity.
It's like Cameron making a sequel of Avatar in which the Na'vi turn out to sacrifice they children to Eywa and cannibalise their enemies while they are still alive. So you like those blue people, hah? I'll show you.
It was a movie about a mentally ill guy that stopped getting meds. At the end of part one he was back in a facility to get medication and back to being Fleck for part 2. It’s no one else’s fault you didn’t grasp that concept. You thought they would keep him off meds and let him be “joker”
you mean it's bonkers how they put him back on his meds and it had the same effect on him as it did in the first movie? and that grape happens in prison?
@@DmanDice he was in jail at the end of the first so of course they put him back on meds, and it was clear in the first one that his situation is much worse at the end than at the beginning, he went from a dysfunctional loner to convicted murder with all the mental issues still there was it not clear that it's not going to go well for him, people expected some fairy tail like romance-rampage flick with Harley when it's the whole point of the movie that's grounded in reality, what happens to serial killers in real life? they get executed or die in prison a lot of the times by the hand of other inmates, isn't that what happened here?
@@DmanDice it was shown in the first one that he was captured by the police, after he admitted to murder and murdered again, this is what people don't get they think somehow he is in a better position at the end of the 1st movie because he went on a rampage and killed the people who wronged him he went from a dysfunctional loner to an incarcerated murderer in an asylum of course his going to be even more miserable now, People expected some fairy-tale like romance=rampage story with Harley, when the whole point of these movies is realism, in the real world what happens to serial killers? they get executed, or die in prison a lot of the time by the hand of another inmate, is that what happened here? YES what is so confusing about this?
I love how some of these Joker 2 apologists are trying to act like we don't see that this movie is a flaming pile of garbage while they smell their own farts and act like it has a bigger meaning.
6:00 THAT, but also- Arthur is poor with no connections (no friends or family to help him.) So, the first movie shows what happens when you're poor and have no one but a public works service that may or may not be there next week because the government isn't seeing the results it wanted from it.
Todd Phillips be like: How dare you like the frist one? Seriously, Todd Phillips is example why I didn't give a damn to the writers strike. Why should cheer for people who hate me and product sh!t beside the natural means?
Joker made me realize my own mental health problems and finally get help. It definitely helped me in that regard because while I didn’t agree with what Arthur Fleck did I sympathized with him and didn't want ro ever go that way.
The fact that Todd already knows that this film is going to be heavily divided. Why did he even work on Joker in the first place if he felt "apologized" for the first film?
It makes perfect sense to me: Joker 1 terrified the powers that be. I believe what happened is that orders came from the top to 'assassinate' Joker 1 because they couldn't risk the masses relating to Arthur. In reality, our elites are waging class warfare on a massive scale, and they don’t want us getting any dangerous ideas.
It's a war between religious Conservative Fascism and atheistic Liberal Marxism. Reverse psychology is a technique involving the assertion of a belief or behavior that is opposite to the one desired, with the expectation that this approach will encourage the subject of the persuasion to do what is actually desired. Example: Use Liberals to assert Socialist/Marxist ideologies with the expectation this approach will encourage the majority of the population to go the direction of Conservative Fascism. Hegelian dialectic is an interpretive method used to relate specific entities or events to the absolute idea. It is a framework for guiding our thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead us to a predetermined solution. Hegelian Dialectic (simplified): Problem, Reaction, Solution Problem: Liberal Marxists threaten to turn the US and Western Civilization into a Communist society. Liberals have created social division, are ruining the economy, destroying art and demonize anyone who holds to traditional morals, values and ethics. Reaction: We need a leader and laws to fight back against the threat of Communism, restore us to our traditional moral and ethical values and “Make America Great Again”. Currently asserted belief or behavior by Liberal MSM, Academia, Corporations, Entertainment and Politicians. Step one of the "Four steps for ideological subversion" (Yuri Bezmenov, 1985) Demoralization - this is a process which can take about 15-30 years to perform (a generation). During this stage, the moral fibre and integrity of the country is put into question, thereby creating doubt in the minds of the people. To do so, manipulation of the media and academia is required to influence young people. As the younger generation embraces new values, such as Marxism and Leninism, the older generation slowly loses control simply through attrition. *Again, true facts no longer matter during this stage, but rather creating perceptions are of paramount importance.* ---While built on lies and misconceptions, the Liberals have been laying the groundwork "showing" that anyone who doesn't embrace modern art and "progressive" views, looking for Trump to save the US and restore the nation and society are Fascists. This is important and sets the stage when the US does, in fact, become a Fascist regime under Trump. Communism and Religion Abolished - all religious and metaphysics is rejected. Engels and Lenin agreed that religion was a drug or “spiritual booze” and must be combated. To them, atheism put into practice meant a “forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.” Eliminating American exceptionalism, fundamental change of national identity, structural deconstruction of foundational principles, elimination of religion. Embedding a new societal design upon the psyche of generations through ideological academia, peer pressure by elites upon academics and society to convince that prior values were inherently flawed, racist, prejudiced etc. National identity is diluted with aspersions toward historical references. National History is re-written, re-defined, and molded to fit the new intended behavioral model and create the new values. The Solution to the Liberal Marxist problem: A revolutionary change of power in which they "drain the swamp" and create a one-party system under Conservative rule. Look up the following: US Public Law One Zero Two dash One Four The Seven Laws of Noah Seven Mountains Mandate/Dominion Theology Conservatives, under the direction of the Roman Catholic Church, will enforce religious laws to "save society" and Make America Great Again, saying that we will earn God's grace and mercy if we follow these laws. These laws will bring death (including public executions), internment camps (for "education"), mass deportations and will cement the narrative of Trump and his followers being Fascists. *“[T]he useful idiots, the leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of the Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system,* when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point: never bother with leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. *Aim higher.* [...] They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. *For example, your leftists in the United States: all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to destabilize a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more.* They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they see that Marxist-Leninists come to power-obviously they get offended-they think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot.” The Liberals are used to create the perceptions, and the Conservatives then make those perceptions reality after being pushed by Liberals into retaliating against them. This creates a Fascist problem for the world to deal with, giving Russia the opportunity to strike and appear as the nation that saved the world from two Fascist regimes. Religion, particularly Christianity, and Capitalism will be seen as the world's greatest threats that must be eliminated, so a New World Order will be put into place under the direction of the Russian leader. Judeo Christian morals, values and ethics will be seen as evil and will be replaced by the new Law of "Do as thou wilt, you are your own god." You should read the book of Revelation, particularly chapters 17-18 since it is talking about the empire of the Roman Catholic Church in the Last Days and how it is destroyed. (Look up Russian "Satan-2" ICBM MIRV.)
As an admirer of the first film and who owns a limited steel book UHD Blu-ray edition of Joker … thank you. Your particular commentary ripping the sequel apart saves me a trip to the movies. Thumbs up to your brutally incisive insight. Todd Phillips and co-screenwriter Scott Silver and the studio executives who funded this bomb hate the audience.
I don't know what Todd hoped to accomplish with this film, but not only am I no longer interested in watching it, I'm no longer interested in watching ANYTHING that this man creates now. I'm sick and tired of these Hollywood jackasses that make movies for the sole purpose of basically shitting on the fans.
Todd Phillips just needs to retire. Every time he builds up a fanbase like with The Hangover. He just sh!ts the bed with the sequel just to spite the fans.
2:22 You mean kind of like how Frank Herbert reacted after his first Dune book came out and everyone loved Paul, so he ruined the character with his follow ups? Yeah
What I want to know is this: how the frakk does this movie cost 200 $ Million to be produced, compared to the 55 $ Million of the first film, HOW?! Most of the movie takes place in Arkham, the court room and we also have the musical numbers. All these scenes can be shot relatively easy & cheap in a sound stage studio. There are no big action scenes or CGI sequences or anything. To put this into perspective: John Wick 4, which is a crazy action movie extravaganza, featuring elaborate action sequences with dozens of stunt performers, CGI, real sets that were build from scratch ( like that nigh club, where Wick fights fat Scott Adkins, that was build for the movie!), car stunts and what not, cost 100 $ Million. Literally half the budget! I wouldn't be surprised if there are some serious Hollywood Accounting shenanigans going on, behind the scenes and WB makes an actual profit from this garbage movie, declaring it as a loss & getting a fat tax write-off.
"Punishing the fans" Except for Deadpool and Wolverine that seems to be the theme of every movie, comic and video game that came out in the last 5 years.
Todd Phillips is a mediocre director who had a fluke success with a Scorsese pastiche (bordering on ripoff) with a very talented actor in the first Joker.
There are people who sympathize (or outright support) the worst possible vilain characters imaginable. Far cry comes to mind, Vass is kind of in the arthur camp, but a bit worse since he kills indiscriminately (almost being shagged and shafted by your sister isn't a good excuse to be a murderous asshole) and Pagan is damn near unjustifiable considering he was always a murderous psycho, but he got worse when his daughter was killed. And yet, somehow, I've seen people form a cult around the latter guy and justify or excuse all his atrocities, because he's charismatic and lost a child (and apparently these people lack father figures in their lives...). So if the goal was NOT to make the Joker sympathetic, it would be impossible even if he was completely in the wrong, because some weirdos out their will find a way to not only empathize, but also outright endorse him, for reasons that are beyond me.
Batman tell-tale does a better job making Joker sympathetic while still portraying his actions as wrong. I am not even a fan of the games and even I think that version of Joker is good.
I don't get why people hate it. I don't get what they wanted from this film. 'Joker' ended with him incarcerated in prison? So what do you want? If you redo the first film people complain, they have done something different and they still complained. Have to say, I was pleasantly surprised by this. While I liked 'Joker' it has massive issue for me, the 'meet up' with Bruce Wayne. For me the Wayne's should have stayed in the back ground and and been a fleeting back drop to the story. Just references and brief glimpses was enough and maybe how their regeneration of Gotham and presence in the city affects people like Arthur /Joker. This on the other hand does something different and does continue and concludes the story. And does it very well. I though the acting, story and cinematic presence of the film was again different and somewhat new and refreshing. The songs / singing are ok and fine in the story. Maybe a few too many but they do add to the story and his / her mental state. The two leads play off each other well and the court room scene is really well directed and shines as the hight of the film. I liked Ga Ga as Harley ('Lee'). You cannot redo the first film but it's another interesting take on 'joker' and does undo a sorta flaw in the original (spoilers - cannot say) story. Did not mind the ending, sorta fits in with the original and what the arch of this film is. All in all I was really engaging, and kept your view and attention and was a decent sequal to a film I really liked.
Joker 2 is Hot Garbage and should never have been made. 2024 has Sucked for Movies. Madame Web Borderlands The Crow Megalopolis Joker 2 and thats just a few off the top of my head and we still got Venom 3 Kraven and Gladiator 2 coming out to Stink up the Joint.
Madame Web is at least hugely entertaining because of how awful it is. Like Morbius was. And I dunno, I'm kind of interested in seeing Megalopolis because of how long Coppola took to make it. It's probably bad, but not intentionally spiteful trash like this movie.
I think Gladiator 2, Venom 3 and Kraven could be entertaining. I don't think any of the films will be great but could be fun. Hopefully not as bad as the one's you have listed.
Apathy, boredom, lol probably Rings of Power season finale finally broke him. All they had to do is like every batman series, break him out of prison early for him to assume his role as the prince of crime instead he regressed back like Thor still trying to find himself again. Visually stunning chorography without a good story line, just like Rings of Power.
No one went gaga over this one. Can't say I blame them. This was rough. I walked out of the first one feeling like I enjoyed the movie. I walked out of the second one feeling depressed. I had to watch kitten videos to feel something again.
The minute I knew this was doomed was when I found out the musical numbers were just pop songs, and not hand crafted for the film. That just reeks of laziness and disconnectedness.
Another YT movie critic jumping on the bandwagon and saying verbatim what the first few reviewers have said.... This movie was good, I feel like anyone who doesn't like it doesn't get what the first one and the JOKER character were supposed to be. It's NOT and never was supposed to be a comic booky, Batman superhero/villain series. It's about depression, mental health, society fucking ppl over, abuse, trauma, not being able to take it anymore etc. This sequel made total sense to me and no, it was not a musical. Couple of tunes here and there as Arthur is struggling to remain positive but yeah, it was a good movie.
Maybe a lot of critics are saying the same things because those things are valid criticisms and impossible to ignore. Did you consider that? And if you think it wasn't a musical, then I don't know what movie you were watching, but it wasn't this one.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 dont worry. These guys are the joker equiv of " To be fair, you need a really high IQ to enjoy Rick and Morty". Bog standard morons wondering "why dont you like the same slop I do? "
I love your channel; even when I know -nothing- about the franchise being discussed/reviewed, the content is -always- enjoyable, informative, and thoughtfully put together.
I just don't understand...why tf do these demons in the entertainment business hate us so much? Every day I bust my ass getting yelled at by bosses and customers alike just to barely make rent. All I want is a little escapism, man. I don't need to be lectured about how evil or wrong I am for existing. 😢
Par for the course. "Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- for ever.' Like something for reasons we have not prescribed and we facilitate it's destruction.
Peer pressure the movie. He made a movie the people he wants to impress didn't like. Now to be of the in crowd, he sacrificed his artistic integrity ok the altar of fame.
Thank you for the review. I do appreciate your efforts. I do wonder if this is indicative of the general strategy for story telling in the modern era. It seems like a lot of folks decide that when a story doesn't meet the ideological requirements of some part of the population, they feel they need to intervene to correct the problem (as they see it). It's like a constant social pressure to rework "problematic" stories so as the "correct thinking" can emerge. It affirms the notion that we can't trust modern story tellers because even if something appears which is interesting or engaging, they will do their upmost to tear it down in their next outing. It's the fragmentation of stories of substance, where an audience who is attracted to the original story is suckered into thinking the next iteration will be equally engaging only to be told in blunt terms that we should never have found the original interesting in the first place. I watched the first movie with heavy emotional guards up, due to the subject matter. It was a good enough movie. Nothing very deep or novel to my mind. I certainly didn't take away any sense of it being some grand commentary on today's society. It was serviceable and the acting was well done. This new one just seems like something to outright avoid. I don't need any other commentary on what the original author thought about the character he portrayed. As with a lot of art, the intention of the artist is independent to the interpretation of the viewer. So if the artist didn't like the way some people interpreted his work, then he's telling me he was a bad artist who couldn't convey what he intended his work to present. That personal interpretation is positive doesn't make the artist good, it only makes the art good in my eyes. Artists can easily get very egotistical about their work if they don't watch for mismatches between their intentions and the actual interpretations of their art. Fundamentally artists don't have control over the interpretations their art can generate. The most they have is some measure of influence. To why he might do this I can only guess. Perhaps the powers that be told him he wouldn't work again unless he corrected "his error". He could have presented this movie as a F U to the studio. He could genuinely be concerned about how the original movie was interpreted in some quarters. What he doesn't seem to be concerned with at all is the story of the Joker and it's a deep failure that the movie had that title in the first place, as that character has a lot of history and lore associated with it. Artists should be held to a higher standard when dealing with characters with treasured histories. In this aspect, whether he intended to do so or not, he has had deep disregard for the fans of this character. Something I think will follow him in his career for the rest of his life.
1st film I loved I rarely watch ones based on Superhero's etc. But you could see the way society had created this "monster" at the time there was outcry about the signal it was sending. When it ended with his footsteps soaked in blood that was a perfect way to just end it when they announced a Musical I knew then it was going to be a disaster. The acting isn't the problem why did the suits allow this film? it should either have complimented the 1st or just take the billion dollars and walk away. Someone else made a comment, this is actually another film dressed as the Joker instead of creating that film with new characters he decided to use it as the foundation for this. Think its safe to say no incoming Oscar nominations
If they had to do a sequel, it should’ve been called, “Joker: Clown Prince of Crime” or some such recognizable phrase and basically the movie would have been his meeting Dr. Quinn in Arkham, going against DA Dent in a highly-publicized trial, and getting off on some technicality. Harley could have some personal tragedy that causes her to be the inciting incident of Arthur’s decision to begin a war on Gotham’s ruling gang lords. Counterbalance this increasingly violent war with glimpses of a young Bruce facing the demons of loneliness and despair we saw Arthur grapple with in the first movie, only show how the kindness of one person (Alfred) is what makes the difference in Bruce’s life. Ultimately, this would be setting up a 3rd movie where we’d see these two collide as Batman and Joker, the moral of it all being what a difference anyone can make in the life of a struggling person and showing what it looks like to give in to your demons vs choosing to face them. But I think this shows that you can only do so much with Joker until you really need to bring in Batman. And I don’t think they wanted to do that so I’m not sure that a sequel would ever have worked in that case.
What amazes me is anybody is surprised by this; I mean read his interviews after the first one. He said quite clearly that he HATES comic book movies and that the only reason he called it Joker was so the studio would give him funding during the big superhero craze, he made it clear what he wanted to make was a gritty Taxi Driver style movie not a comic book movie. So with that attitude is it any surprise he got royally pissed that everyone saw it as a Joker movie instead of his "artistic vision" of a modern Taxi Driver with a fake name to troll the studio? This one is obviously his "FU if you want a Joker movie as i don't do comic book shit" and I'm sure he is LHAO that he got the studio to pay all the money so he can flip the whole world the bird in return. I get the feeling from his interviews he could not give a shit if it bombs as he can go back to his "artistic vision" with all the cash he made off these two ala Taika Waititi and just like Waititi nobody will remember him in 5 years.
I knew he didn't like superhero movie and wanted to do a real movie, but I thought he would take a similar take with this movie. Plus he built the Batman lore nicely into that movie so I was fine with it. I think there was a path for Joker 2 where he still could have made it work, but it seemed like he wanted to sabotage it. Maybe 5 years later (at least) where society had forgotten about him and he was in the4 Asylum for years. By the end he becomes more of the Dark Knight Joker than the needy one. Maybe rumors of a caped guy stopping crime.
Honestly , the title of this movie , alone , was dumb . Then , they decided to cast a divisive figure , Lady Gaga . That's going to wipe out a good portion of your audience , right off the bat .
The way you describe the musical segments of this film gives me strong Wotakoi vibes. In that film’s case, there was this very flashy dance segment during the title cards, and then every other song was randomly inserted, served no purpose, and had the cheapest choreography imaginable (when it had choreography at all). It felt like the director just really wanted that opening number and couldn’t get it green lit without agreeing to do a musical.
Hey, we got Whitney Houston in this movie. She needs to sing! Hey, we got Rhiana in this movie. She needs to sing! Hey, we got Lady Gaga in this movie. She needs to sing!
Haven't seen the film but planned to and you're like the second or third person I saw make similar comments. Honestly, how you laid it out. It could have been a good take on how serial killers and pscyopaths have their fanbases and how messed up that is because at the end of the day, they're losers who have basically been enabled. Heck, this could have also been a good take on how the Jokerz gang came to be. Except if it's true that it also goes out of its way to make the audience feel bad for liking the character then that's a huge fumble.
Maybe Todd Philips will kill his career out of spite. I'm not gonna miss his directing TBH. The first movie was maudlin and depressing. People went to see it in droves because the media made a big stir saying it would radicalize people because ... genuinely society these days is pretty bleak (just look at North Carolina and the response our government has to our own people dying). But were that many people so attached to Arthur Fleck that he was their role model. Like lastingly and culturally? I think Todd Philips is inflating his ego thinking he has to quell a large swath of people into a lecture saying how, "he's not good actually." Yeah, duh, thanks for telling people with no media literacy that but everyone else got it in the first movie.
Thanks for the review. I will definitely not watch this movie now. I don't need Hollywood to tell me how stupid I am for thinking or feeling the way I do and how they know better than I do how to live and think. I just want to be entertained and not attacked.
Lots of franchises are burning because modern “creatives” are eager to ruin the work of their predecessors. But it’s a special kind of nihilism where a creative destroys his OWN billion dollar fan favorite
Maybe they would like to do their own stuff but they don't get jobs with doing their original work, which btw you will never know if it's good because they didn't get to make it
EXCELLENT WORK. THORIAS UNLIMITED REVIEW OF JOKER 🃏 TWO REVIEW
@@m0-m0597 In some cases, that's definitely true, like Star Trek Discovery basically entirely looks like a group of writers who wanted to do sci-fi but didn't want to do the Star Trek universe, so they find every excuse possible to distance the show from the actual universe they're supposed to be writing in. They seemed to want to write something closer to Battlestar Galactica, but ended up with Star Trek.
The thing is that writers who can't write for established characters usually suck at writing in general, because it shows they don't understand the source material. I don't mean just memorizing the lore and canon, but I'm talking basic thematic concepts like "what is this story about?"
A lot of the problem is they don't want to pay good money for talented writers. Famous authors like George RR Martin, Stephen King, JK Rowling, etc, are fantastically wealthy. Meanwhile the pay was so bad for Hollywood writers that they've had to had writers strikes and it's the bad ones that are striking, which should tell you something. Pay a crap wage and you get fanfic writers using ChatGPT to write scripts and they come as garbage.
"You're a terrible person for having really enjoyed my first movie."
"Ah. Right. I'll apologize for that by not seeing your second one."
"Wait..."
absolutely pathetic,
in the first we see the villains rise in the 2nd we see the fall,
how is this a personal attack on you?
I'd recommend seeing the wild robot instead. It goes on a bit longer than it should, but it was overall good.
That's not how you apologise. You apologise by rewatching the first movie, appreciating that the Joker is a villain and you don't root for the villain. You're supposed to just feel horrified at how Arthur flipped (you can still feel sorry that Arthur's life hasn't been as great as he'd wish). Then you watch the second movie.
@@Picnicl How about NO?
@@PicniclHow about you piss off instead and let people enjoy their entertainment?
The director pulled a taika waititi, now his first movie is nothing more than a fluke and his latest movie is trash.
i think more pulling a WACHIOSKY sister in matrix 4
So, he did a starship troopers with the first one and then he wanted to show his pals that he is on their side.
Hey but it's good to have a tragic villain who is justified and in love with the heroine like Sauron in The Rings Of Power, right Hollywood!? 😅
The first Joker film was part 1 but it was not his first movie.
@@johnmiller5679I think the Taika Waititi reference was about Thor Ragnarok and Thor Love & Thunder being his first MCU but not his overall filming credits...
Whereas the first movie was the tragic descent of a mentally ill man that society mistreated and then forgot about; this movie is like one LONG humiliation ritual, designed specifically to avoid or ruin everything people liked about the first movie.
perfectly sad.
So the 1st film showed you 1 man's descent into madness and the 2nd film showed you YOUR descent into madness?
What did you want? Arthur to persevere and overcome some odds so you can cheer him killing innocent people? He was never someone to identify with or sympathize with. Empathize, sure, to a point. He wasn't even the actual Joker. First movie was ok, Phoenix gave a great performance but it was a weird not really a Joker movie. This movie makes sense for the character of Arthur. If you're viewing this as THE Joker or identifying with Arthur, then you're just making yourself angry for no reason. If you were dumb enough to pay for it, sure I guess be mad.
@maotendoo I *wanted* there to be no sequel to begin with. The first movie was totally fine as its own thing. This movie just feels like having a firework fall off the stand and shoot sideways into the neighbour's dog. Its a *disaster*
@@filipvadas7602 That's fair. I didn't want one either and had no interest once I heard "Gaga" and "musical". Watched it to just see the train wreck. I think people on all sides are projecting things onto both movies. There was some interesting stuff in the 2nd but overall I understand how people hate it.
Joker: Failure A Deux
Failure A Douché
What I had heard was that Todd intended for the audience to hate the Joker, that's how he wrote the first movie. And he was super mad that people ended up liking him and relating to him. If that's true than it explains a lot with this sequel.
It also explains how he's an over-sensitive nimrod like all the other creative types in their little plastic Hollywood Bubble.
How do you spend over 2 hours illustrating how society has continuously dumped on a person, and then turn around and tell us that that PERSON is the problem? Maybe if they wanted us to hate the Joker, they shouldn't have given us an origin story describing him as the underdog... Maybe, just maybe, the comics knew what they were doing when they left his backstory ambiguous...
and it explains a lot about Todd
It doesn't make sense. Even Tarantino praised Todd for making us want to see the Joker shoot that TV host. You don't do that be accident. It's rather that Todd felt apologetic to the the Hollywood elites and had to make amends.
@@TrazynnSadly a lot of liberal cultists in the comments who bow to modern Hollywood and like typical modern liberals hate the poor and unwell.
I call it the Waititi Effect; giving someone far too much money and creative freedom owing to their past success with a project expecting lightning to strike twice.
So Thor, Wonder Woman, and now Joker. Very unimpressive. But thanks to them, I can save more of my money by not seeing them.
Taika Watiti is Jewish tho, so it's pretty much on par for things
The "Waititi Effect." That's a good name for it.
This movie can't make me angry. I had no hope for it being good. I saw the response the writers and director had to the way people were enjoying the first movie. They were appalled and apologetic about "violence inspired by the movie" which was exactly zero violence. Frozen 2 screenings saw more blood than any Joker screening. But the movie had said something dangerous to a modern audience. It has said that eventually someone who is kept down by the authorities will stand up. Can't have that. Can't be putting no wild ideas into the white man's head. So Joker 2 was made. To remind the white man of what the authorities promise to do to him if he steps out of line.
Joker 2 was salvageable. The first half is pretty much okay as a lead up to a big courtroom reversal. Where the Joker fires his lawyer and demands to defend himself. He just comes out clean says he did all of it, but he is still entitled to a trial. There is no split personality. The Joker is simply Arthur Fleck who has had one really bad day (ZOMG REFERENCE!!!) The question of guilt is over. But the system is tied to it's own rules. It can't just simply convict him there and then. They HAVE to let him put on a defense. And he spends the whole defense assigning guilt to society. The Joker isn't responsible for his action. The system that MADE the Joker is. If we had lived in a different society (ZOMG REFERENCE!!!) Arthur Fleck would have been a healthy young boy, making friends, going to school, getting a job where he feels he did things that mattered. But we don't live in that society (ZOMG DOUBLE REFERENCE!!!) We live in this one. That chews people up and spits them out expecting them to just lie there and rot.
Even the ending is usable. Mid closing tirade the bomb goes off exactly as it does in this movie. Joker is dragged from the courtroom unconscious by his fans. And we see him regain consciousness in the back of the car. His fans are jabbering excited. MAD with glee! And he laughs. Cut to credits. You have just made another billion dollars.
Joker 2 is the WEAKNESS of the creatives behind the movie on full display. They would lie there and rot.
Heck, if Lady Gaga's Lee has to be in there, you could easily have her lead the charge to pull him out, then show her embracing him when he wakes up in the car.
Yup, these are one of those times that I'm thankful that my Braves aren't owned by these dumb bastards at Warner Brothers like they used to from 2001-2007.
"One can take many things from a man but not his thought" - have no idea who said this but the point is agreeing with you. Joker is an idea and idea is contagious. By doing dirty to Joker 2, they try to kill the idea. No billions dollar is worth if, by any chance, one day Joker will come out of the screen and start walking on the street. Hollywood cannot have that happen.
I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Joker was about race at all. The movie is all about class: rich vs poor. It's very left-leaning.
You are right it was a dangerous topic for modern audiences. Unsurprisingly the people at the top aren't appreciative of any kind of messaging about someone coming after them. They can care less about the lower classes fighting amongst themselves, but when people start to punch up instead of kick down... that's what they don't want you to think about.
I know Thorias was confused why we got a sequel, because I am too...Warner Bros got too greedy
Why do you think Warner Bros wanted this movie to be made and released the way it was?
Don't you think Warner Bros wanted this movie to do amazingly and resonate with it's audience?
and the director made a good movie mocking the studio for it all the way. and somehow people are upset about it.
This is why you don't force someone to make something they won't want to make
That's not the issue the real issue is Todd Phillips being bitter at the audience
@@gusztavkosa4065good movie?
Most people who watched the first film probably didn't condone what Arthur has done, but even understanding and empathizing was apparently too much. Because the people that made it have no compassion whatsoever.
The saddest part is that the idea of having these iterations of Joker and Harley, who are more extremely damaged people more than anything else, slowly evolve into a murderous, villanous power couple through their shared delusions COULD have been really cool. In fact, I think that's where most people thought the sequel was going, myself included.
That would have actually been a somewhat fresh new take on their relationship too.
The only other times we had something like this was in the godawful Suicide Squad (2016) where Joker seemed to *actually* care about Harley on a deeper level and Telltale where Joker/John Doe *actually* wanted to be better, both mentally and as a person, but Harley kept pulling him towards the dark side with her.
The delusion was in just as much of much of the audience as it was in Arthur thinking that Harley could care about Arthur.
Much of the audience's delusion was thinking that someone who murders 6 people in sometimes gruesome way should ever be regarded as somewhat heroic.
I am so pleased that the sequel essentially told the audience to grow up and appreciate human beings.
The movie is essentially saying 'Be more like Batman'.
@@PicniclGod, you are a miserable and pathetic human being.
Facts
There's always natural born killers I suppose...
Isn't that always the thing with these kinds of movies? That you're lamenting what could have been?
I’m fearful how Hollywood could’ve screwed up a Heath Ledger’s Joker spin off film had he’d not passed away. I’m glad his Joker will never get ruined.
Some people think the one at the end is that joker
@@lightdarksoul2097 it’s not. It’s not part of the NolanVerse just a shitty attempt at a “homage”
Frankly it was a different time with a different director. I don't think they would have screwed up the character like in this version.
@@geneanthony3421 good point
'Awful' is a very polite way to put it 😅
Broker 2: The Killing Flop
Brought to you by Black Rock. Their motto is "Everything they touch, turns to sheet"
He shouldn’t have listened so much to the criticism -it’s been five years. Why not go big? Just to spite people?!
If the critics were right then why did the movie went big ? Phonix got the damn oscar. This movie is just a downgrade.
Never underestimate the fragile ego of a Hollywood Director.
@@DoubleClefFm Which just goes to show how incredibly entitled Phillips and Phoenix are. They made truckloads of money from the first and got two Academy Awards. Their thank you to the audience for paying their next mansions and swimming pools is this.
@@Aivottajathat's just funny
Blmae hollyweird tod dint want to make a sequel for me they probably made him make it and thats why jt failed @@Aivottaja
If Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix felt so strongly that the original JOKER was a one-off and wasn't meant or needed to have a sequel, they should have refused to participate. They couldn't resist the $$$big bucks$$$ the studio offered them. Both of them have no integrity.
It's like Cameron making a sequel of Avatar in which the Na'vi turn out to sacrifice they children to Eywa and cannibalise their enemies while they are still alive. So you like those blue people, hah? I'll show you.
Honestly that sounds awesome I want that movie.
It was a movie about a mentally ill guy that stopped getting meds. At the end of part one he was back in a facility to get medication and back to being Fleck for part 2.
It’s no one else’s fault you didn’t grasp that concept. You thought they would keep him off meds and let him be “joker”
Arthur getting his persona backshotted out of him by prison guards is truly one of the Jonkler moments in cinema.
you mean it's bonkers how they put him back on his meds and it had the same effect on him as it did in the first movie? and that grape happens in prison?
@@gusztavkosa4065
Why put that character back in that position in the first place? Then kill him off..
@@DmanDice he was in jail at the end of the first so of course they put him back on meds,
and it was clear in the first one that his situation is much worse at the end than at the beginning, he went from a dysfunctional loner to convicted murder with all the mental issues still there was it not clear that it's not going to go well for him, people expected some fairy tail like romance-rampage flick with Harley when it's the whole point of the movie that's grounded in reality, what happens to serial killers in real life? they get executed or die in prison a lot of the times by the hand of other inmates, isn't that what happened here?
@@DmanDice it was shown in the first one that he was captured by the police, after he admitted to murder and murdered again,
this is what people don't get they think somehow he is in a better position at the end of the 1st movie because he went on a rampage and killed the people who wronged him
he went from a dysfunctional loner to an incarcerated murderer in an asylum of course his going to be even more miserable now,
People expected some fairy-tale like romance=rampage story with Harley, when the whole point of these movies is realism,
in the real world what happens to serial killers? they get executed, or die in prison a lot of the time by the hand of another inmate,
is that what happened here? YES what is so confusing about this?
@@gusztavkosa4065
Then they should have called it something else. Not the Joker..
The mere fact that this movie got a standing ovation at a film festival, shows me that Hollywood was and is impressed by 💩 art, which Joker 2, IS.
Considering what they think is fit to put in museums, I'm not shocked.
Joker : Folie a Deux ? more like Joker : Folly a DUD!
* puts on fake French accent *
*SACREBLEU!*
I love how some of these Joker 2 apologists are trying to act like we don't see that this movie is a flaming pile of garbage while they smell their own farts and act like it has a bigger meaning.
6:00 THAT, but also- Arthur is poor with no connections (no friends or family to help him.) So, the first movie shows what happens when you're poor and have no one but a public works service that may or may not be there next week because the government isn't seeing the results it wanted from it.
Hey, it's DC's version of TLJ!
It was staring us in the face all along: _The Lamest Joker_
Todd Phillips be like: How dare you like the frist one?
Seriously, Todd Phillips is example why I didn't give a damn to the writers strike. Why should cheer for people who hate me and product sh!t beside the natural means?
Joker made me realize my own mental health problems and finally get help. It definitely helped me in that regard because while I didn’t agree with what Arthur Fleck did I sympathized with him and didn't want ro ever go that way.
The fact that Todd already knows that this film is going to be heavily divided. Why did he even work on Joker in the first place if he felt "apologized" for the first film?
I don’t even think the reaction is divided, from I’ve seen it’s almost unanimous that this movie is hated by everyone.
Because the first caused people to turn into cringe
@@lightdarksoul2097cringe response
Only in current media, they make a Grape Scene as a Joke
The struggle snuggle was portrayed as a joke because it happened to a guy. Modern Day, hooray. 🤮
Oh please tell me you are joking? Only a sadistic would think £ape would be a joke!
It makes perfect sense to me: Joker 1 terrified the powers that be. I believe what happened is that orders came from the top to 'assassinate' Joker 1 because they couldn't risk the masses relating to Arthur. In reality, our elites are waging class warfare on a massive scale, and they don’t want us getting any dangerous ideas.
It's a war between religious Conservative Fascism and atheistic Liberal Marxism.
Reverse psychology is a technique involving the assertion of a belief or behavior that is opposite to the one desired, with the expectation that this approach will encourage the subject of the persuasion to do what is actually desired.
Example: Use Liberals to assert Socialist/Marxist ideologies with the expectation this approach will encourage the majority of the population to go the direction of Conservative Fascism.
Hegelian dialectic is an interpretive method used to relate specific entities or events to the absolute idea. It is a framework for guiding our thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead us to a predetermined solution.
Hegelian Dialectic (simplified): Problem, Reaction, Solution
Problem: Liberal Marxists threaten to turn the US and Western Civilization into a Communist society. Liberals have created social division, are ruining the economy, destroying art and demonize anyone who holds to traditional morals, values and ethics.
Reaction: We need a leader and laws to fight back against the threat of Communism, restore us to our traditional moral and ethical values and “Make America Great Again”.
Currently asserted belief or behavior by Liberal MSM, Academia, Corporations, Entertainment and Politicians.
Step one of the "Four steps for ideological subversion" (Yuri Bezmenov, 1985)
Demoralization - this is a process which can take about 15-30 years to perform (a generation). During this stage, the moral fibre and integrity of the country is put into question, thereby creating doubt in the minds of the people. To do so, manipulation of the media and academia is required to influence young people. As the younger generation embraces new values, such as Marxism and Leninism, the older generation slowly loses control simply through attrition. *Again, true facts no longer matter during this stage, but rather creating perceptions are of paramount importance.*
---While built on lies and misconceptions, the Liberals have been laying the groundwork "showing" that anyone who doesn't embrace modern art and "progressive" views, looking for Trump to save the US and restore the nation and society are Fascists. This is important and sets the stage when the US does, in fact, become a Fascist regime under Trump.
Communism and Religion
Abolished - all religious and metaphysics is rejected. Engels and Lenin agreed that religion was a drug or “spiritual booze” and must be combated. To them, atheism put into practice meant a “forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.”
Eliminating American exceptionalism, fundamental change of national identity, structural deconstruction of foundational principles, elimination of religion. Embedding a new societal design upon the psyche of generations through ideological academia, peer pressure by elites upon academics and society to convince that prior values were inherently flawed, racist, prejudiced etc. National identity is diluted with aspersions toward historical references. National History is re-written, re-defined, and molded to fit the new intended behavioral model and create the new values.
The Solution to the Liberal Marxist problem: A revolutionary change of power in which they "drain the swamp" and create a one-party system under Conservative rule.
Look up the following:
US Public Law One Zero Two dash One Four
The Seven Laws of Noah
Seven Mountains Mandate/Dominion Theology
Conservatives, under the direction of the Roman Catholic Church, will enforce religious laws to "save society" and Make America Great Again, saying that we will earn God's grace and mercy if we follow these laws. These laws will bring death (including public executions), internment camps (for "education"), mass deportations and will cement the narrative of Trump and his followers being Fascists.
*“[T]he useful idiots, the leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of the Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system,* when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point: never bother with leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. *Aim higher.* [...] They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. *For example, your leftists in the United States: all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to destabilize a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more.* They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they see that Marxist-Leninists come to power-obviously they get offended-they think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot.”
The Liberals are used to create the perceptions, and the Conservatives then make those perceptions reality after being pushed by Liberals into retaliating against them. This creates a Fascist problem for the world to deal with, giving Russia the opportunity to strike and appear as the nation that saved the world from two Fascist regimes. Religion, particularly Christianity, and Capitalism will be seen as the world's greatest threats that must be eliminated, so a New World Order will be put into place under the direction of the Russian leader.
Judeo Christian morals, values and ethics will be seen as evil and will be replaced by the new Law of "Do as thou wilt, you are your own god."
You should read the book of Revelation, particularly chapters 17-18 since it is talking about the empire of the Roman Catholic Church in the Last Days and how it is destroyed. (Look up Russian "Satan-2" ICBM MIRV.)
The handmaid's tale is going to become a documentary about the future I guess.
"""The elites"""
@@Aivottajastop noticing, you raycist.
Class warfare and social engineering are happening to be sure.
Who knew a movie that hates its audience…would be hated right back?
Thanks!
Gaga was in NO WAY Harley Quinn! NO WAY!!
As an admirer of the first film and who owns a limited steel book UHD Blu-ray edition of Joker … thank you. Your particular commentary ripping the sequel apart saves me a trip to the movies. Thumbs up to your brutally incisive insight. Todd Phillips and co-screenwriter Scott Silver and the studio executives who funded this bomb hate the audience.
Thanks for the tip.
Hey Thorias, you're one of my favorite UA-camrs. All of your videos are histarical. Keep it up buddy!
I do my best. Thanks for the tip.
Good thing I’m never watching Folie a Poo Poo. I’m not taunting my enjoyment of the 2019 original.
The original comic Harley was a psychiatrist, if i recall correctly.
I don't know what Todd hoped to accomplish with this film, but not only am I no longer interested in watching it, I'm no longer interested in watching ANYTHING that this man creates now. I'm sick and tired of these Hollywood jackasses that make movies for the sole purpose of basically shitting on the fans.
Zack Synder's SuckerPunch had more going on. SUCKERPUNCH!
SP is underrated. The metaphor is obvious, but the audience was still too dumb.
I still want a Snyder cut with scenes of Babydoll's dancing
Todd Phillips just needs to retire.
Every time he builds up a fanbase like with The Hangover.
He just sh!ts the bed with the sequel just to spite the fans.
This movie really made Thorias angry, Joker wasn't supposed to be a sequel. good job sir Thorias
It's like the film is designed to destroy the original & punish the audience for liking it.
Exactly my point.
2:22
You mean kind of like how Frank Herbert reacted after his first Dune book came out and everyone loved Paul, so he ruined the character with his follow ups? Yeah
What I want to know is this: how the frakk does this movie cost 200 $ Million to be produced, compared to the 55 $ Million of the first film, HOW?!
Most of the movie takes place in Arkham, the court room and we also have the musical numbers.
All these scenes can be shot relatively easy & cheap in a sound stage studio.
There are no big action scenes or CGI sequences or anything.
To put this into perspective: John Wick 4, which is a crazy action movie extravaganza, featuring elaborate action sequences with dozens of stunt performers, CGI, real sets that were build from scratch ( like that nigh club, where Wick fights fat Scott Adkins, that was build for the movie!), car stunts and what not, cost 100 $ Million.
Literally half the budget!
I wouldn't be surprised if there are some serious Hollywood Accounting shenanigans going on, behind the scenes and WB makes an actual profit from this garbage movie, declaring it as a loss & getting a fat tax write-off.
I think it's money laundering.
The way I heard it, the paychecks for Phillips, Phoenix and Gaga were a big chunk of that price tag.
I have a rule for myself: if I love a movie and the sequel ruins the original, I won't watch the sequel out of respect for the first film.
Harley Queen? more like Hardly Queen.
Way to go, Todd. Fuckin' up the movie experience for the rest of us.
Todd Phillips is new Rian Johnson.
Perfect assessment as always lol 😂😂😂. They ruined the Joker
"Punishing the fans"
Except for Deadpool and Wolverine that seems to be the theme of every movie, comic and video game that came out in the last 5 years.
💯💯💯💯👍. Definitely
Modern 2020 Hollywood despises us, it seems.
Spider-Man video games and No Way Home?
@craigmoon2121 The spider-man ps4 games and TF one are one of the few exceptions to the rule.
There’s no Tooth Fairy, there’s no Easter Bunny, and there’s no Joker sequel.
Gary, the little guy, had the best scene hands down. Such a powerful moment that was brushed away.
Yeah, that was a good scene. Too bad the film was probably unsalvageable at that point.
He made his own “Book of Shadows - Blair Witch”….
THIS💯😂😂
Todd Phillips is a mediocre director who had a fluke success with a Scorsese pastiche (bordering on ripoff) with a very talented actor in the first Joker.
There are people who sympathize (or outright support) the worst possible vilain characters imaginable.
Far cry comes to mind, Vass is kind of in the arthur camp, but a bit worse since he kills indiscriminately (almost being shagged and shafted by your sister isn't a good excuse to be a murderous asshole) and Pagan is damn near unjustifiable considering he was always a murderous psycho, but he got worse when his daughter was killed.
And yet, somehow, I've seen people form a cult around the latter guy and justify or excuse all his atrocities, because he's charismatic and lost a child (and apparently these people lack father figures in their lives...).
So if the goal was NOT to make the Joker sympathetic, it would be impossible even if he was completely in the wrong, because some weirdos out their will find a way to not only empathize, but also outright endorse him, for reasons that are beyond me.
Batman tell-tale does a better job making Joker sympathetic while still portraying his actions as wrong. I am not even a fan of the games and even I think that version of Joker is good.
Thank you...money quietly stays in pocket...
You made the right decision.
I don't get why people hate it. I don't get what they wanted from this film. 'Joker' ended with him incarcerated in prison? So what do you want? If you redo the first film people complain, they have done something different and they still complained.
Have to say, I was pleasantly surprised by this. While I liked 'Joker' it has massive issue for me, the 'meet up' with Bruce Wayne. For me the Wayne's should have stayed in the back ground and and been a fleeting back drop to the story. Just references and brief glimpses was enough and maybe how their regeneration of Gotham and presence in the city affects people like Arthur /Joker.
This on the other hand does something different and does continue and concludes the story. And does it very well.
I though the acting, story and cinematic presence of the film was again different and somewhat new and refreshing.
The songs / singing are ok and fine in the story. Maybe a few too many but they do add to the story and his / her mental state.
The two leads play off each other well and the court room scene is really well directed and shines as the hight of the film. I liked Ga Ga as Harley ('Lee').
You cannot redo the first film but it's another interesting take on 'joker' and does undo a sorta flaw in the original (spoilers - cannot say) story.
Did not mind the ending, sorta fits in with the original and what the arch of this film is.
All in all I was really engaging, and kept your view and attention and was a decent sequal to a film I really liked.
Joker 2 is Hot Garbage and should never have been made. 2024 has Sucked for Movies. Madame Web Borderlands The Crow Megalopolis Joker 2 and thats just a few off the top of my head and we still got Venom 3 Kraven and Gladiator 2 coming out to Stink up the Joint.
Madame Web is at least hugely entertaining because of how awful it is. Like Morbius was. And I dunno, I'm kind of interested in seeing Megalopolis because of how long Coppola took to make it. It's probably bad, but not intentionally spiteful trash like this movie.
I think Gladiator 2, Venom 3 and Kraven could be entertaining. I don't think any of the films will be great but could be fun. Hopefully not as bad as the one's you have listed.
Damn shame… thanks for sharing…. Yeah I’m not going out of my way to watch 😔
2024 looked great on paper, but man, this year has been disappointing so far
The women Todd Phillips dates wouldn’t date him anymore unless he invalidates the messages in the first movie. Duh…
IT IS A GOOD MOVIE. GOOD ACTING. WELL DONE. THE NEGATIVE STUFF IS UNTRUE. SEE FOR YOURSELF.
Apathy, boredom, lol probably Rings of Power season finale finally broke him. All they had to do is like every batman series, break him out of prison early for him to assume his role as the prince of crime instead he regressed back like Thor still trying to find himself again. Visually stunning chorography without a good story line, just like Rings of Power.
No one went gaga over this one. Can't say I blame them. This was rough. I walked out of the first one feeling like I enjoyed the movie. I walked out of the second one feeling depressed. I had to watch kitten videos to feel something again.
Thanks for taking one for the team. Never saw the first one no plan on seeing this one.
Bro so angry, he starting to look like Magneto XD
And sounds like Kermit the frog 😂
Movie was a waste of time. I like your review bub. Keep it up.
The minute I knew this was doomed was when I found out the musical numbers were just pop songs, and not hand crafted for the film.
That just reeks of laziness and disconnectedness.
I know, right? If it's just a bunch of covers, then what's even the point?
Another YT movie critic jumping on the bandwagon and saying verbatim what the first few reviewers have said.... This movie was good, I feel like anyone who doesn't like it doesn't get what the first one and the JOKER character were supposed to be. It's NOT and never was supposed to be a comic booky, Batman superhero/villain series. It's about depression, mental health, society fucking ppl over, abuse, trauma, not being able to take it anymore etc. This sequel made total sense to me and no, it was not a musical. Couple of tunes here and there as Arthur is struggling to remain positive but yeah, it was a good movie.
Maybe a lot of critics are saying the same things because those things are valid criticisms and impossible to ignore. Did you consider that?
And if you think it wasn't a musical, then I don't know what movie you were watching, but it wasn't this one.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 dont worry. These guys are the joker equiv of " To be fair, you need a really high IQ to enjoy Rick and Morty". Bog standard morons wondering "why dont you like the same slop I do? "
I love your channel; even when I know -nothing- about the franchise being discussed/reviewed, the content is -always- enjoyable, informative, and thoughtfully put together.
Another Hollywood production that Hate there fans.. strange 😢
I just don't understand...why tf do these demons in the entertainment business hate us so much? Every day I bust my ass getting yelled at by bosses and customers alike just to barely make rent. All I want is a little escapism, man. I don't need to be lectured about how evil or wrong I am for existing. 😢
Par for the course. "Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- for ever.' Like something for reasons we have not prescribed and we facilitate it's destruction.
Peer pressure the movie. He made a movie the people he wants to impress didn't like. Now to be of the in crowd, he sacrificed his artistic integrity ok the altar of fame.
Yeah I remember when it was announced as a musical I said oh yea it’s definitely gonna fail .
I really enjoy your reviews. Very intelligent, analytical and insightful
Thanks for watching.
Just want to express admiration for your reviews and deconstructions.
Your treatments are better than most of those features deserve. A++
Walking Phoenix
Benwa keen
I said this somewhere else but I'll say it again. Todd Philips actually woke up and said, "whoops, actually made a good movie. Gotta fix that."
Todd Philips did say when the first movie came out he wanted to make a dark and serious movie under the guise of a comic book movie.
The Penguin meanwhile is great.
Its is good too bad its being released WEEKLY.
@@christisrisen6774 yeah well to be fair HBO needs viewership ratings to last longer than releasing all at once
Thank you for the review. I do appreciate your efforts.
I do wonder if this is indicative of the general strategy for story telling in the modern era. It seems like a lot of folks decide that when a story doesn't meet the ideological requirements of some part of the population, they feel they need to intervene to correct the problem (as they see it). It's like a constant social pressure to rework "problematic" stories so as the "correct thinking" can emerge. It affirms the notion that we can't trust modern story tellers because even if something appears which is interesting or engaging, they will do their upmost to tear it down in their next outing.
It's the fragmentation of stories of substance, where an audience who is attracted to the original story is suckered into thinking the next iteration will be equally engaging only to be told in blunt terms that we should never have found the original interesting in the first place.
I watched the first movie with heavy emotional guards up, due to the subject matter. It was a good enough movie. Nothing very deep or novel to my mind. I certainly didn't take away any sense of it being some grand commentary on today's society. It was serviceable and the acting was well done. This new one just seems like something to outright avoid. I don't need any other commentary on what the original author thought about the character he portrayed.
As with a lot of art, the intention of the artist is independent to the interpretation of the viewer. So if the artist didn't like the way some people interpreted his work, then he's telling me he was a bad artist who couldn't convey what he intended his work to present. That personal interpretation is positive doesn't make the artist good, it only makes the art good in my eyes. Artists can easily get very egotistical about their work if they don't watch for mismatches between their intentions and the actual interpretations of their art. Fundamentally artists don't have control over the interpretations their art can generate. The most they have is some measure of influence.
To why he might do this I can only guess. Perhaps the powers that be told him he wouldn't work again unless he corrected "his error". He could have presented this movie as a F U to the studio. He could genuinely be concerned about how the original movie was interpreted in some quarters. What he doesn't seem to be concerned with at all is the story of the Joker and it's a deep failure that the movie had that title in the first place, as that character has a lot of history and lore associated with it. Artists should be held to a higher standard when dealing with characters with treasured histories. In this aspect, whether he intended to do so or not, he has had deep disregard for the fans of this character. Something I think will follow him in his career for the rest of his life.
1st film I loved I rarely watch ones based on Superhero's etc. But you could see the way society
had created this "monster" at the time there was outcry about the signal it was sending.
When it ended with his footsteps soaked in blood that was a perfect way to just end it
when they announced a Musical I knew then it was going to be a disaster.
The acting isn't the problem why did the suits allow this film? it should either have complimented the 1st or just take the billion dollars and walk away.
Someone else made a comment, this is actually another film dressed as the Joker instead of creating that film with new characters he decided to use it as the foundation for this.
Think its safe to say no incoming Oscar nominations
It's like he made the sequel to ruin the first movie.
If they had to do a sequel, it should’ve been called, “Joker: Clown Prince of Crime” or some such recognizable phrase and basically the movie would have been his meeting Dr. Quinn in Arkham, going against DA Dent in a highly-publicized trial, and getting off on some technicality. Harley could have some personal tragedy that causes her to be the inciting incident of Arthur’s decision to begin a war on Gotham’s ruling gang lords. Counterbalance this increasingly violent war with glimpses of a young Bruce facing the demons of loneliness and despair we saw Arthur grapple with in the first movie, only show how the kindness of one person (Alfred) is what makes the difference in Bruce’s life. Ultimately, this would be setting up a 3rd movie where we’d see these two collide as Batman and Joker, the moral of it all being what a difference anyone can make in the life of a struggling person and showing what it looks like to give in to your demons vs choosing to face them.
But I think this shows that you can only do so much with Joker until you really need to bring in Batman. And I don’t think they wanted to do that so I’m not sure that a sequel would ever have worked in that case.
Hopefully he spoils the ending in this video. If you liked the first movie, and find out about the ending, you're really going to be pissed.
I expected it this dude never really was joker material anyway
@@lightdarksoul2097I expected an ok movie
What amazes me is anybody is surprised by this; I mean read his interviews after the first one. He said quite clearly that he HATES comic book movies and that the only reason he called it Joker was so the studio would give him funding during the big superhero craze, he made it clear what he wanted to make was a gritty Taxi Driver style movie not a comic book movie.
So with that attitude is it any surprise he got royally pissed that everyone saw it as a Joker movie instead of his "artistic vision" of a modern Taxi Driver with a fake name to troll the studio? This one is obviously his "FU if you want a Joker movie as i don't do comic book shit" and I'm sure he is LHAO that he got the studio to pay all the money so he can flip the whole world the bird in return. I get the feeling from his interviews he could not give a shit if it bombs as he can go back to his "artistic vision" with all the cash he made off these two ala Taika Waititi and just like Waititi nobody will remember him in 5 years.
I knew he didn't like superhero movie and wanted to do a real movie, but I thought he would take a similar take with this movie. Plus he built the Batman lore nicely into that movie so I was fine with it. I think there was a path for Joker 2 where he still could have made it work, but it seemed like he wanted to sabotage it. Maybe 5 years later (at least) where society had forgotten about him and he was in the4 Asylum for years. By the end he becomes more of the Dark Knight Joker than the needy one. Maybe rumors of a caped guy stopping crime.
Honestly , the title of this movie , alone , was dumb . Then , they decided to cast a divisive figure , Lady Gaga . That's going to wipe out a good portion of your audience , right off the bat .
The way you describe the musical segments of this film gives me strong Wotakoi vibes. In that film’s case, there was this very flashy dance segment during the title cards, and then every other song was randomly inserted, served no purpose, and had the cheapest choreography imaginable (when it had choreography at all). It felt like the director just really wanted that opening number and couldn’t get it green lit without agreeing to do a musical.
Not the biggest fan of the first one, but if I get a chance to check this out I guess I'll watch it. I just want to know if I'll dislike it or not.
Hey, we got Whitney Houston in this movie. She needs to sing!
Hey, we got Rhiana in this movie. She needs to sing!
Hey, we got Lady Gaga in this movie. She needs to sing!
So did you have a point or just saying things
Yes.
- The next musical should star The Hulk and Vision as roommates searching for love and compassion.
I can't believe it, I thought that in this movie they were going to let us see the full-fledged Joker in all his glory. What a letdown.
They should’ve made the movie with another Batman villain like two face
Exactly and had it also be standalone and not necessary set in any DC universe including the Joker 2019 universe
I was a fan of the first film and I didn't think it needed a sequel honestly. I was happy with the story ending there.
Haven't seen the film but planned to and you're like the second or third person I saw make similar comments.
Honestly, how you laid it out. It could have been a good take on how serial killers and pscyopaths have their fanbases and how messed up that is because at the end of the day, they're losers who have basically been enabled. Heck, this could have also been a good take on how the Jokerz gang came to be.
Except if it's true that it also goes out of its way to make the audience feel bad for liking the character then that's a huge fumble.
I've seen the exact same comments from EVERY reviewer I watch, around 8-9 of them
Maybe Todd Philips will kill his career out of spite. I'm not gonna miss his directing TBH. The first movie was maudlin and depressing. People went to see it in droves because the media made a big stir saying it would radicalize people because ... genuinely society these days is pretty bleak (just look at North Carolina and the response our government has to our own people dying). But were that many people so attached to Arthur Fleck that he was their role model. Like lastingly and culturally? I think Todd Philips is inflating his ego thinking he has to quell a large swath of people into a lecture saying how, "he's not good actually." Yeah, duh, thanks for telling people with no media literacy that but everyone else got it in the first movie.
Great review. Any chance we ever get a FK video from you again?
You weren't supposed to relate to Arthur. So he got The Punisher treatment.
I hate bait and switch movies like this. Very annoying…
Just because you mentioned it, Im doing my annual Batwoman watch. I'll be watching the show and your reviews over again. That was a special time! 🤣🤣
They made it bad on purpose.
American Psycho: psychopathe pour deux and Fight Club: l'étrangeté en un will be an interesting set of dumpster fires.
Thanks for the review. I will definitely not watch this movie now. I don't need Hollywood to tell me how stupid I am for thinking or feeling the way I do and how they know better than I do how to live and think. I just want to be entertained and not attacked.
You'll get your imaginary Joker killings in this movie. Entertainment comes in many forms.