Joker: Folie à Deux or Joker 2 review of the sequel no-one wanted. Seemingly specifically designed to destroy the character you were never supposed to like in the first place, This movie destroys the joker as a character, put's Harley Quinn in the position of power and agency between the 2 of them. And sends the message to never fight back against people who wrong you, or you will be destroyed. It's a horrific movie, with a terrible message, and everyone would be better off not watching it. But what did you think of the Joker and Joker 2? Let me know your thoughts down below and as always, thanks for watching :)
If he was Joker then lady G would have taken a bullet to the head just like Murray and for the same poser reasons, because 'you get what you F'n deserve!' I won't be giving dollars to Hwood because monkeys with typewriters sometimes accidentally make a masterpiece
Hello, I must disagree. I really adored the first one. Even if it didn’t actually portray the joker comic fans are used to. But it’s an interesting interpretation of a potential Joker. And the second one isn’t as good as the first, but it shows us, the human being behind the mask of the Joker; furthermore it takes one possible direction, probably not the one most of us expected. But it’s one possible way and this Joker is the inspiration for all the other jokers since the joker as character is the personified evil. So, as in the comics, different people are going to interpret the Joker. This fact is already visible in the first film and, of course, in the second too. Excellent job done by the actors. Especially Joaquin Phoenix. Go see both movies! The second one with its singing parts, which, of course, represent fantasies of the protagonists, are not too long. So, enjoy the movie. The first one is a definite 10 at least a 9. the second one is likable , enjoyable, let's say for me it's a 7, maybe even an 8 out of 10. Greetings from SICILY! :)
There is some weird undertone of spite in these films, which clearly wasn't portrayed as the director wanted in the first film. I'm not sure if it's at the audience, or if he resented making superhero movies.
But remember, words are violence. And how many words did we all see and hear after that movie came out? I remember words left, right and centre. You couldn’t move for all the words
How was the story of Arthur even connected to 1nceIs in any way, I wonder. There is barely anything about Fleck being a miserable person because he's not getting any wet vice grip. He's miserable because he's a mentally iII loner who was @bus€d by his mentaIIy ill mother. Sure there was that imagined romance. But it doesn't connect to why Arthur's life was in a downward spiral. It was so because he was abandoned by society as a whole. Nothing in the movie was saying being Arthur was something you should aspire to be. Nothing glorified his choices.
Turns out everything is just how she mentally perceives herself, but to everyone else she is a hateful, spiteful, vindictive and manipulative, narcissistic monster. Make that movie! I am sure there's... 6 or so people who want to see it!
The Barbie movie partly did well because some thought it was accidentally based, highlighting how much better things are after the Kens take over Barbieland. In a hypothetical sequel, rest assured, the people who thought that will be mocked and vilified.
They'd need to undo the victimhood of Ken and the oppression from the Barbies i think that was a major self-own for feminists how even women were only really talking about Ken
People had empathy for the character. Not sympathy. He's still responsible for everything he did. But people understood how he got to that point. He was effed up from the beginning and the system didn't do a heck of a lot to get him in a better place. Social services is an industry. Drugs to keep him docile and semi-sane is an industry.
Fight Club, They Live, Taxi Driver, Matrix, American Psycho, and Clockwork Orange. This movie wasn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
I have to disagree with you, here. He’s mended his reputation with the people he actually cares about, who are his Hollywood peers. He had to distance himself from that first movie, and he’s done exactly that
Didn’t he get 30 mill for this movie. He will live with playing the studios and as for the fans. If you were a fan of the first and had half a brain then you would have known better than to expect a good sequel. Only normies and the studios lost money. I may check it out on stream.
It feels like The Last of Us 2 all over again, lol. Jokes on them. I learned my lesson from that piece of shit game and I will not waste time and money on Joker 2. If these spineless creators want to bend the knee to the Hollywood cult, they can do it without my time and money.
@@plantemorLOU2 gameplay still was and is amazing and killing Joel made way more sense then this movie being turned into a musical nice try but that was a dumb ass comparison…
This movie wasn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel "Bonnie and Clyde" capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
To be honest the musical part is not that bad how the made Harley it would have made sense but the story is so fuckin stupid. The first bit when they meet and up until the first 2 songs the movie actually good than they was like: Okay, time to fuck up this fandom too, oh how I like Hollywood we can shit in everybodies plate.
I don't understand: Hollywood seems obsessed with making their villians more "relatable". Then when they make one that people can relate to they get upset and promptly retcon and neuter him
Correction: Hollywood identifies with evil, but only certain kinds of evil. They want the RIGHT KIND of villain to be the hero actually. Joker wasn't the RIGHT KIND of villain. Joker was supposed to be a representation of the people they think are villains in real life.
Part of the reason the propaganda industry _hated_ the first movie was because it accurately called out their insidious role they play in sowing lies and discord and destroying the civility Arthur lamented no one having anymore. Arthur wasn't trying to become a symbol of chaos or a figure to spark and lead a class war, that was ENTIRELY the "news" who spun that false story. One of the most powerful shots to me in the original movie was after Arthur domes Murray on live TV, the feed cuts, then zooms out to a wall of TVs, playing the murder over, and over, _and over_ again, ending with the line "Gotham is burning," because that's what the propaganda industry does; they want you to hate your neighbor. That the same propagandists love this movie is all you need to know about what an evil, malicious piece of trash it is.
It’s a great example of how often the entertainment class don’t even understand the stories they are telling. It reminds me of that sculptor who made the 40K inspired God Emperor Trump statue believing it would be “terrifying” and it never occurred to him that his audience would think it made Trump look like a powerful badass.
For real. It almost feels like Todd Phillips decided to make an autobiographical movie about how Hollywood broke him and put him on trial for the sins of making a movie that spoke truth to power and how he broke and in the end had to kill his creation to appease his overlords. All the while singing and dancing all the way into his metaphorical grave. If one decides to watch the sequel in that light, maybe it takes on a different meaning and becomes a meta horror movie lol
It's hilarious because like Disparu said, "The Message" can only go one way. So when confronted with the ideas that someone from a group they dislike, men and more specifically, white men, can suffer and be subjected to horrors and the unfairness of the system, they decided to create a movie which shows that, but showing that THEY, the system, will crush you if YOU, not from a group they like, try to stand up for yourself against the machine, they will destroy you and leave you with nothing. Leave you a paste on the wall that is the machine. Absolutely disgusting.
They already showed us this in real life: The people who were in involved in Jan 6th, who committed no crime (not even trespassing because they were let in by security) but were immensely harshly punished regardless and no one has done anything about it. It's the same exact message and the purpose is Demoralization.
@@JeroginoldBlamforddidnt a cop die that day? Also werent they yelling hang mike pence? Didnt they go into the actual senate area? At least they were found by the fbi
It’s always funny to remember how everyone who is an idiot was afraid Joker would cause riots, yet the same people were supporting the actual rioting that happened up… until it came close to their own massive houses.
You can fool all the people some of the times, and you can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool everyone all the time. And that is why the term conspiracy theory was fostered into the minds of Americans after questions about the 1962 assassination of John F. Kennedy by the CIA, I mean Lee Harvey Oswald, an actual CIA asset, I mean lone not gunman who never was a deep asset by Allen Dulles, I mean he was just a crazy guy, I mean, why are we even talking about this? Aren't you sleepy? I am sleepy.
I find it interesting that The Elites(TM) keep yapping about societal problems and justice, but when an actual portrayal of struggle resonates with audiences, they immediately turn around and call it problematic. Why? Where did all that talk of 'seeing yourself in media' go? Because I, neither white nor male, saw myself in a lot of what Arthur went through (not what he did, for obvious reasons). A lot of us did, and that's why the movie got so much acclaim and made so much money. After years of plastic, sanitized nonsense, to see something so raw caused genuine conversation... which is exactly what these people don't want. They felt intimidated. They felt attacked, because they're shown as the actual villain (because they ARE the villain), and no, I'm not necessarily talking about the wokies or whatever, but the plastic, sanitized elite at the top, roleplaying as human, yet failing again and again. This is a direct response to us who actually saw ourselves: we're getting told to shut up, accept what we're given, and never question them again. Or else. Joker is one of my favorite movies of all time, and my experience when watching it at cinemas is unmatched. It's art, and as such, it shows a truth that makes oppressors uncomfortable. I'll do what I always do with spiteful sequels: ignore them. There is no Joker 2. Or, well, I'll celebrate when it flops and THEN ignore it. It gets what it deserves.
you should see how people react when you bring up male heightism XD got a whole lotta out of touch, mentally distant boomer tier logic peeps attackcing for that one and they still didnt adress anything said, they just ran away .
There are two distinct type of wokies, the elite side pushing it for their own personnel gain, and the 'flock', the believers, the useful idiots making sure the ideology gets impregnated into all parts of society, as this benefits the elites.
This really is the worst kind of movie. Not only is it long and boring, it actually ruins the far superior 1st movie. And of course they cucked him. It’s 2024. Harley will never be portrayed as originally written ever again.
Fleck was a simp in the first. Dudes always been awkward and borderline autistic. That’s why he’s always fantasizing. I think the sequel just took the originals cynicism and ramped it up even more.
@@gnosis555 For what i see he was a simp yeah and that was the idea, he was a simp, that was made a simp in a combination of his childhood of abouse, he being lied, the sistem ignore the signs that the person was about to explode, that he was not tace care, when he become the Joker he lash out, he revel, he didnt want to be a simp anymore, he was free of the simp, the second one make him a simp again, all the first one, the lash out, he escaping, was destroy to show, o these is what happen if you revel, you have to be a simp that is the second one
As a woman who was in an abusive relationship once, I prefer original Harley. She is far more interesting than girl boss Harley because she literally shows what it is like to be trapped in an abusive relationship and the madness of wanting to stay and feeling like the world is over if you leave the abuser. What am I supposed to do with girl boss Harley who becomes a lesbian with poison ivy? Where is the conflict and the drama in that setup? Seriously, where is the conflict? Give me stories about battered Harley because that shit is real. I lived it. It is the most humiliating chapter of my life and I'm sure many other battered women and men would agree with me. But I want stories about battered Harley and not girl boss Harley because battered Harley puts a spotlight on abuse and asks uncomfortable questions on the topic. What does girl boss lesbian Harley do? I don't necessarily mind that Harley eventually breaks away from the Joker and hooks up with Ivy. That does sound like a pretty interesting finale to her story, but that is all it is. A finale. You cannot tell interesting stories about Harley' ride into the sunset with her new girlfriend. That isn't what her character is about. Harley is the best when she is deep in the spiral with Joker and is the most devoted to the man who is destroying her. That is also when her relationship with batman is the most interesting because in her mind it's a love triangle between the three of them and batman is her biggest rival for joker's affection. How does girl boss lesbian Harley relate to batman? She doesn't. There is no beef there. This is why Harley's happy ending cannot be the main story and why she must be the symbol of the obsessive abuse victim turned perpetrator. She is the darkest reflection of what someone like me could have become, had my abuser dug his claws into me for life. Just like how the movie Joker was the darkest reflection of what can happen when mental illness and social isolation goes unchecked.
Taking all agency away from Arthur is the biggest slap this movie does. He was finally free and happy in a twisted way. For once he could be himself without any restrains. But nah, let's strip it all away. Joker is 👏an idea. He is just poor little Arthur.
All Disparu does is complain about TV shows and movies. He doesn't talk about political ideas or anything that will move the needle. He just wants YOU to be perpetually outraged so he can make money. This film isn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel "Bonnie and Clyde" capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
@@aesop1451 I do agree that disparu is a shit stirrer, but he is right about one thing: the first movie wouldn't have been successful without the IP. The penguin, for instance, is a gritty crime drama. But it doesn't lose its identity as a batman spinoff. By trying to strip off the comic book elements, it just alienated the fanbase. Only thing I can say is that, I had lost all interest as soon as I heard that Harley Quinn was going to be there in the movie.
0:17 that's the funny part about this for me They've unintentionally told the world what they think of us, and it's one of disgust and abject revilement, turning a character that the director originally said was meant to be an examination of how the system abandons people, into a man who bleeds out at the end is a perfect example of what they think.
He is one of the people who is why the system abandons people, so he ironically recognizes that the system does it but not that it's because that's what he wants . He just is picky about who should be abandoned.
Joker 1 was great because against all the odds Arthur survived by becoming Joker. Joker 2 the fans wanted this journey to continue not to kill off Arthur and have him abused for no reason.
I think jokers a more interesting character than Batman anyway to be honest
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@@BaxterSquee Why not the Riddler. He's been the Gotham Times Crossword quiz designer for 19 years and 5 months before retirement Wayne enterprise replaces him with an AI crossword program.
@@mecham5818 so what? You're still here because he made a good movie, no doubt your narrative just change after the sequel, because for some reason you feel betrayed, it's fucking hilarious to me. Hafuckungha
I think Halle Berry was the first she won an oscar for MonsterBall and took it with her to get her razzie for Catwoman
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@@itsaKindaMagik I always do that in my head canon as well. Monsterball is why she's so fked up come Catwoman. Just like Red Foreman didn't really go to war he used to live in Detroit and that's why he's the way he is in that 70s show.
His acting wasnt the problem. But Razzies, being the pansies they are, might take this opportunity to give him a razzie. I'd say, kevin Hart from Borderlands is a better choice. If anything, Phoenix deserved a razzie for Napoleon.
These people don't even know how an insanity defense like this works. The sanity of Arthur would've been adjudicated *before* the trial ever happened. As in, if he was found to have been insane, there wouldn't have been a trial, because he -- by definition -- wouldn't be sane enough to stand trial, and he just would've been shoved into a mental institution.
Dude, seeing how Fucced up the Judicial System in the USA (and many European countries influenced by progs) is...Mental Health at this point it's just used as an excuse to not prosecute people (specially if is a "protected demographic"). It happened some time ago where a White girl o Arizona was attacked by a Black girl with a knife, they tried to use "emotional problems" as a form to drop the charges even when the perpetrator admited the victim was an "easy target".
To add to this: He would be institutionalized until he was deemed sane enough to stand trial. There is no statute of limitations on murder, so he would be either in a hospital or in prison for the rest of his life, either way.
Sure, but that's been Hollywood stupidity for a long time, not necessarily unique to this movie. There's literally dozens of movies where they act like a successful insanity defense means they simply walk free forever. No different from how Hollywood thinks that you can pull surprise witnesses out in the middle of a trial, or that you can question a witness then suddenly pull shocking surprise evidence out in the middle of trial without having disclosed it beforehand, or not getting read your Miranda rights means they instantly walk free regardless of any other evidence. Hollywood simply has no idea how actual law really works.
Shoved into a mental institution..... where he could have met Harley Quinn, a therapist/psychologist who tries to get him back to "normal," but Joker instead uses the opportunity to corrupt and recruit her, leading to their escape and another attack on Arkham. Oh wait, that's an actually good story. 😂
The first movie was a tale of a broken man shunned from and failed by society. A man who was driven to brutal acts to claim an iota of agency over his life in a society that had labeled him as a subhuman whelp, robbing him of his humanity and hope. It was a perfect exemplification of the saying "If a child isn't given the love of the village he will burn it down to feel its warmth" A cautionary tale illustrating how an uncaring society can turn a broken victimized man into a villainous figure. The second movie was a exemplification of the degrading, ruthless way society paints broken men that ultimately drives them to silent lives of hopeless desperation. It's actually incredibly meta even though it was completely unintentional.
Indeed. I consider the sequel to be an autobiographical depiction of Hollywood raking Todd Phillips over the coals after the success of the first movie. Them breaking him and having him kill what he created to restore balance in the cult.
I doubt TP was influenced by anybody to destroy this character. He knew what he was going to do with this character even before the first Joker came out. This was never intended to be the REal Joker,just a lowlife killer who wants to be THe JOKER and fails at it. IN the end , the chosen one emerges from the shadows to claim the Title of Joker for himself after Arthur gives up. JOker is a title you earn, not just any anarchist loser can be The Joker. It's like trying to be The Devil, he is so much more than a just a killer....a character complex enought that Heath Ledger hmiself even died trying to portray.....
If you take away the DC elements, the movies are a terrible "Taxi Driver" fan fiction. I suspect that's why the writer/director wanted De Niro in the first one.
The funniest thing to me, is that the movie they hate, the first Joker movie, is the one that had a sympathetic villain, with a morally nuanced/relative perspective, and deconstructed the main character. It literally did all of the things that they claim to be doing, and was actually good, because it did them competently. Yet they hate it, because it did them competently. The great irony in this is that the Joker was never even meant to be a sympathetic character to begin with. His entire schtick was chaos for chaos' sake, even with multiple iterations of the Joker openly mocking the idea of having a consistent backstory to begin with because it's so utterly irrelevant for his character. Yet the first movie managed to still explore that backstory (or at least a possible backstory, since of course characters will have countless different implementations and versions) in a way that actually worked with it quite well. In fact, while there has been a lot of debate over how Fleck's Joker would really work with Batman given he's middle aged when Bruce would still be a child (ergo by the time Bruce becomes the Batman Fleck would likely be in his 60s+) Fleck's Joker would actually parallel Batman quite well. Both Fleck and Bruce were beaten down by traumatic events and functionally 'broke', leaving behind everything they were to become a new identity in complete response to the events that caused them. While Bruce decided to try to stop the crime throughout the city through fear, Fleck decided to try to tear down the entire system by inspiring a vague hope of something better afterwards. It's honestly an incredibly good mirror of Batman's character, that still somehow manages to be very definitively "The Joker". (Fleck himself isn't necessarily *_trying_* to be inspirational, but it's the role he's filling) So they hate the movie that successfully did everything they claim to, and not only did it succeed wildly in deconstructing and reimagining the source material, it did so while still perfectly fitting with the character and story it was immitating. (arguably even solving problems that the originals never did/could. I mean, why would anyone work for the Joker? Well, Gotham is so fucked up and corrupt that is it really all that surprising that an Arthur Fleck-like Joker would spur a disorganized yet loyal-to-the-death movement of people perfectly willing to go along with whatever insane plans he comes up with?)
well, that sounds like the Human ,ANti-HEro Joker. The point you miss here is that the Real JOker is NOT Human. The REal JOker does not care to inspire the people, the REal JOker is not a mere anarchist who wants chaos just for the sake of chaos, he can't be a REal Villain that way, His true motives are far more sinister. This guy Arthur was on a path of self destruction . Not really understanding the TRue Nature of what it means to be The JOker, he failed and got shanked. Because in the end, The Real Joker only uses chaos as a tool for his true purpose, which is to create his own version of the New WOrld Order in where he rules over everything instead of the Government. And the clowns take over the world....
no it's about all the money. And sending a message. a message of FUk u UP the asz Joaquin Phoenix....RIP Heath Ledger we all know you played the Real JOker now you can be at peace
The minute I heard Lady Gaga was in this, I knew it was fucked. The exact same thing I said when Disney bought Star Wars and Microsoft got the Halo IP.
Microsoft always had Halo since it was made by Bungie exclusively for the Original Xbox owned by Microsoft, that was the deal from the start and it was a contract for at least 3 games. In fact Halo was so successful that Microsoft originally planned to buy Bungie, but Bungie declined the offer because they wanted to remain an independent games company. I'm glad they did that, even though Bungie is a shadow of it's former self, just like BioWare a once great studio who made the Mass Effect trilogy.
@@chindleymuffin No, they got Bungie under contract, not the Halo IP outright. Microsoft agreed to let Bungie out of the contract if they made 2 more Halo games and sold them the IP.
This movie wasn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel "Bonnie and Clyde" capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
well yeah, Arthur became a joker....wait I keep calling him Arthur, his name is Murray my bad. as we all know, the REal JOker kills MUrray in the end. it shows you that FOnies will all get humiliated in the end....
When I first saw people talking about the Joker getting raped in prison, I honestly thought they were just making it up as a "this movie was so bad, that may as well have happened too" kind of joke. (un)holy hell
I think the most appropriate reaction to Phillips is to look at him weirdly, ask him what the hell is wrong with him, and then walk away before he can answer.
@@ObsidianFane It's not about the disrespect to the character itself that matters, it's the disrespect to the fans. I don't know if you're unintentionally dense or just a troll, but perhaps think before you make yourself seem a fool.
@@ObsidianFanehe didn’t disrespect a character. He disrespected his audience. And that’s unforgivable. People can tell when the director blatantly shows his contempt for the audience.
Ah yes! Todd Phillips, a real auteur. With movies such as Road Trip, the Starsky and Hutch remake, and the Hangover movies. Who doesn't love his serious work and highbrow humor.
Courtroom was a great setting actually. Had they actually tried and created some form of a case. The point of court rooms in movies is NOT to hold a trial, which is all they did in this movie, but to use it to DEBATE the central THEMES of the movie! Amistad is not about whether slaves are cargo and thus insurable. The trial is the framework from which we hang the banner "Slavery Bad!". Look at the scene with Gary. That legit was a strong counter to Joker's righteous anger. "You didn't hurt me? I have nightmares! I can't sleep. I'm afraid all the time!" Arthur didn't kill Gary... but he did hurt him. Even after saying he wouldn't. This is where a good movie would have a moment of introspection for the main character. But they don't. They have him beaten up in the shower by representatives of the same system that caused him to break and lash out in the first place. Gary should have been Arthur's trigger to stop the theatrics and deal with the situation seriously. Joker, of which I am now convinced entirely by accident, made the brash statement in a swamp of safe slop movies that you can only kick the bottom rung of society so much until it breaks and the whole ladder falls apart. It said way more than it ever intended to say as evidenced by it's director being so ass mad he killed his golden goose. Joker 2 says that if you ever lash out at the system and make a name for yourself you'll be beaten back in line and someone will gut you and steal your identity. And in that it says even less than nothing.
The fun thing is that usually hollywood could make good movies and bad movies. You shaunt the bad movies and watch the good ones and become a fan even for years. Now the message is "doesn't matter if the movie we put out is good. We'll ruin it later with prequels and sequel, so don't bother getting invested'.
It's not just that they make bad sequels. For example, Halloween and Friday the 13th have bad sequels, but they remain faithful to the spirit and characters, and the first chapters remain cult classics. The problem with modern Hollywood is that they want to deconstruct and change everything told in previous films. Thus, Luke Skywalker is no longer the true chosen one, John Connor is no longer the leader of the resistance, Rocky is a pathetic loser and Joker is not the real Joker, and so on...
Or you could just ignore the existence of the sequel. It's pretty easy to all things considered. Case in point, I have never seen any of the new Star Wars movies and know nothing about them even to this day, and it is lovely. I know Luke Skywalker drinks green milk... uh, there's a... uh... I think Palpatine is in it somehow?
This movie could have worked as a "Joker" movie if, at the end, Arthur does truly break and The Joker is all that's left... and the last scenes we see is him going full Joker, taking his revenge on the asylum... taking his revenge and breaking Harley down until their roles reverse back to what they're supposed to be with her becoming broken and obsessed but this time with the monster she helped create for her own selfish reasons... poetic justice in a sense that she becomes manipulated and broken by the man she manipulated and broke. But no, Arthur instead just meets his end as a pathetic little man who dared to stand up for himself just once, everyone else gets what they want and he's just broken and discarded, and even 'The Joker' looks like it'll be taken by some other guy (which is not a bad idea per se, but executed terribly)
I think that's something I was waiting to see in the first Joker movie; Joker's genius. Even in the Jack Nicholson portrayal, Joker had a certain genius, however evil. But Heath Ledger took it to a new, subtle level. Where Nicholson's Joker was genius in making cool (if murderous) toys... Ledger's was a genius at manipulating people. When he said he was like a dog chasing cars; without a plan... that was a complete lie. He out-thought his opponents in The Dark Knight. If not for Batman's "sacrifice" at the end, Joker would have won. So I waited through the first movie for some sign of his suppressed genius to show itself... only to be disappointed. Then I waited to see/hear the reviews of the 2nd movie... and now I discover he's still not an evil genius. IMO, w/o that evil genius... he's _not_ The Joker.
@@HiraghmI don't think this Joker would have needed to be a genius. The first movie was too realistic for that. I think he would have been an extreme version of Charles Manson. Someone that inspired people to commit acts of violence and was a symbol. He was already idolised at the end of the first film and caused a riot, so this fits tbh. They should've kept the idea that Arthur became famous, had the film made about himself etc. As this feeds into the idea about him becoming a symbol. But they should've kept Arthur confident and violent, like the end of the first film. Also, he doesn't have to fight Batman physically. Batman fighting the crime Arthur continued to influence would have been enough.
I mean.. that is kinda what happened in the first movie. He fully broke and became fully the Joker in the first movie. I also feel like that Joker wouldn't even give a Harley Quinn the time of day. If anything he would just straight up kill her like he did the therapist at the end of the first movie. Arthur Fleck was meant to be alone. In that setup, Harley just doesn't fit in. Arthur Fleck isn't really the manipulative type. Todd Phillips didn't show a character who likes trying with other people's minds. The closest we get to him being manipulative is when he takes his time letting Gary out of his apartment, but that is more so a power trip than it is manipulation. If anything, it is the world around Arthur that is manipulative. People manipulating him and taking advantage of him for being weak and trusting. So the fact that they announced that Harley would be in the sequel made me scratch my head because this Joker is not a master manipulator. He's not an organized crime boss. He is a mentally ill loner and he must stay that way. It should've never had a sequel. It was a fun "what if" movie which people seem to forget is a very common storytelling tool within super hero comics. This one was never meant to be canon. It kinda served the same purpose as Silent Hill Shattered Memories which, from a story point, is probably one of my favourite silent hill games. It takes the events of the first game and reimagines it and recontextualize the story to create a more grounded story about a broken mind that is struggling to come to terms with a trauma in their life. I would never consider Shattered Memories canon to the original silent hill games, but it is still very much part of the franchise and it is a worthy entry if we ignore the nightmare that is the wii controller during the escape scenes. Hell on earth, man. Anyway, I see Joker in the same way. It takes a classic character and recontextualize him and his story in a more grounded world with a focus on the tragedy of his broken mind. It was never meant to be more than that.
so Road Trip, Old School, Starsky & Hutch 2004 and The Hangover were supposed to be considered "Real Movies"... MOOOOM, TODD IS OFF THE MEDS AGAIN!!!!!
The bizarre thing about all this is, that "The Joker", as a character archetype, works perfectly well outside of any comicbook context already. The person completely divorced from society, morals and laws, who only exists to test the self righteousness of said system against utter chaos. You don't need any DC comics connections for that to already be a perfect backdrop for a character centric story.
@@1SpicyMeataball Yup, similar, but the premisses are very different. Falling Down is a more personal cautionary tale about frustration, apathy and escallation. William has the mother of all shitty days, but the loss of control is on him. Arthus is severely mentally ill and effectively shunned by society. His escallation is not entirely within his own power. And that's what resonated with people. Feeling abandoned or ostracized for illnesses, being a victim of crime no one cares for etc. Both are "the quiet kid that had enough", but the overall power dynamic is vastly different. And i think the issues highlighted in Joker, and the fact that they are very contemporary real life problems that we love to talk about but ultimately don't give a shit about hit a little too close to home in hindsight.
I can only say, I'm so glad I didn't followed my friends when they said "Let's go see it the day of the release". I will never watch this movie. Hail Disparu! :D
Well, at least Heath Ledger's live-action Joker is still the best on screen. And yes, you could make the arguement for Jack's in 1989 but Ledger was perfect to me
@@MemoristCed True. I just tend to give Nicholson some credit because some people go "HE'S THE BEST JOKER, LEDGER WAS OVERRATED!" And I don't care to hear that. Ledger had the perfect one regardless though. Terrifying yet humorous in a sadistic way
@@thomasg2488 Absolutely agreed. Nicholson did what he does to the role and it was to his credit; I think the last person who'd held it down was Cesar Romero. Ledger's is that perfect landing between all those things the Joker is supposed to be, and makes it completely believable. Anyone who says Nolan doesn't know what he is doing, never saw that movie.
So they can mishandle management of a prison, or give nothing to mentally ill people as seen in the first movie. They can do everything wrong and that's ok. But when Arthur does thngs his way for once, he must be neutered not because he is a murderer, but because he went againts the system. Outstanding move.
i feel like the writers were seemingly annoyed that mostly everyone that watched the movie was on arthurs side so they compensated by taking a steaming load all over his character in this one.
Disparu - you are a unique and intelligent voice and a rare truth-teller in the vast see of movie reviewers. You truly get to the deep heart of each movie or series - the good, the bad, and the awful. I loved your coverage of the Acolyte and laughed so hard I nearly fell out of my chair (“throbbing!”). I think you and the critical drinker are the very best at what you do. You have elevated movie reviews to new heights. I watch your videos even about movies and series that I have no interest in, just to hear your take and to laugh out loud when you skewer the ridiculous choices some of these “creators” like Lesley headland and Todd Phillips make. Your videos are far more entertaining than just about anything put out by the big studios. Thank you! More more please.
@@narem1092the difference is, the women in the first two movies you mentioned were cool, actually well written with defined flaws and strengths, and not a patronising "they can do no wrong" approach to writing characters who are female.
@@narem1092 I had to look up clips of Wanted. I know I saw it, but I can't remember a single thing about it. Howardax covers the 1st 2 movies. Kill Bill is in a strange category. Everything was stylized over the top bad ass because that's what the director is known for. The guys weren't believable either. I'd say G I Jane is the only true Girl Boss movie. Because magically she is capable of anything.
The name itself is a double entendre and no one caught it. The literal translation is madness for two but phonetically, it sounds like follie adieu, or goodbye mistake.
I could see it being possible that someone who has mental illness and spouts conspiracy theories could inspire someone else who has mental illness to believe what they're saying. Then creates a feedback loop as they encourage the first to take action.
I read how Joker 2 ended and I just laughed. The first thing I thought of was The Last of Us 2. Arthur Fleck basically got Joel'd! I hope going out of your way to antagonize and give a huge middle finger to the audience that liked the first movie was worth it, Hollywood! 👍
Daniel Craig swooped that role from Piers Brosnan. They didnt even do it formally but just fired him over phone. Then he gets his balls crushed. Deserved. Better him than Pierce in that cuck role.
It's classic Warner incompetence. They lost out on a lot of profit from the first film due to the financing deal made to spread the risk. Then they put out a sequel, with a far larger budget, probably less risk mitigation, and they think this is what fans of the first film would pay to see? How do these people operate trousers without burning down their homes?
Who gives 100's of millions of dollars to a writer and director to make... this shit? This is one instance where the studio should demand their money back, lol.
Wasn't it Zack Snyder who said he wanted to see Batman get graped in prison. So Todd Phillips just took that idea except it's Arthur instead of Batman.
@@nikkili8944seriously Snyder want batman raped in prison, this dude more hack than Bruce Timm with his batman and Batgirl relationship if this true I not Snyder fan anymore
When someone releases a work that’s taken completely differently than they intended, it just shows how far disconnected, the artist class is, from the working class. Their audience no longer identifies with their work in the way they intended. There is no actual representation of the working class, in our collective entertainment. There used to be mid-budget films but that era no longer exists. Unfortunately for Hollywood, regular people are no longer enamored by what they have to offer so we’re no longer buying what they’re selling.
You just reminded me of a movie, maybe a made-for-tv movie, starring Mark Hamill, from '86, called "Let's Get Harry". A group of construction workers' friend is kidnapped in Colombia... when the gov't can't/won't do anything about it, these blue-collar construction-worker types hire a mercenary and go down to free their friend. Ordinary, blue-collar types... with agency. That was the message back then in the Reagan era; you _are_ competent, you _are_ capable, you _can_ win. The exact opposite of what it appears the media wants to promote today. I just thought of a quote from another movie about a persecuted genius villain who decides to watch the world burn: " Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark. Do not let the hero in your soul perish in lonely frustration... for the life you deserve, but have never been able to reach. The world you desire can be won. It exists. It is real. It is possible. It is yours. This is John Galt speaking." - Atlas Shrugged part III Had they made Joker more like that in the sequel, I think it would have resonated and been a success.
The first film I never saw as a "comic-book film" as, well, I'm not a fan of them at all. The Joker I thought was excellent film and looked forward to a sequel, but...but...but....butt!
I was like that with Blade. Wasn't a comic book reader at that time since a kid and I didn't know all the comic book characters. I found out after the movie Blade was a comic book character. You'd never know that from the movie it was. It was just a good action movie with a good story. And they were Vampires.
"You can't sympathize with this character. You're not supposed to like him anymore. And in order to prevent the message 'that you should stand up for yourself' we have to show you the message of 'what happens when you do'. [...] It's the message that 'no matter how horrible, how disgusted, how unhappy you are for your entire life, you should NEVER, absolutely NEVER stand up for yourself. Because if you do, it will be worse. There will be worse consequences. And if you try to fight back, they'll crush you even more". There. Thank you. You perfectly summed it up. That's the core of the movie, and it's a despicable one. Utterly disgusting.
There are so many versions of the Joker character in the DC canon that it is impossible to determine his character or goals. From the clown from the Silver Age, to the “new ordinary man” from A House on Serious Earth, and much, much more.
Spoiler if you haven't seen the movie- You described exactly this psycho dude at the end of Joker 2, who apparently os the real one? But for me Arthur Fleck persona as the Joker was more interesting.
16 днів тому+1
@@piotrd7355 We already have a double personality guy though his name is Harvey he's in the movie. What makes Batman villains great is they are unique tropes. I don't want my Mister Freeze making stupid jokes like the Riddler I'm looking at you Tim Burton.
I'd wondered why Joker wasn't in the Legion of Doom on the _Superfriends_ animated series when I was a kid. I figured Luthor realized he was too unreliable to follow orders for a cause. But then I found out they were thinking of using him for another animated series so didn't release his character for that one.
You've got to give it to Hollywood when even after multiple years of hundred-million-dollar flops, at a time when the industry is constantly crying about how tough things are and how terrified they are for the future of their careers, they continue to think it's a good idea to attack the paying audience and keep poking that bear.
That's because the suits making these decisions have all sorts of golden parachutes to protect them for failure. The only people losing their jobs over these bad decisions are the lower level people, camera crew, stuntmen, the people who build sets. Those are the first to go and none of the suits will care.
When I saw the first Joker, I could plainly see that Todd Phillips at least skimmed Alan Moore's "Batman: The Killing Joke," and Frank Miller and Klaus Jansen's "Batman: The Dark Knight Returns." So add that to nicking Martin Scorsese, and you realize that Todd Phillips doesn't have an original bone in his body. So if he's telling us to eff off, well, eff you right back, Todd. In my opinion, the only decent movie he ever made was the documentary, "Hated: GG Allin and the M*rder Junk!es." Even then, he was coasting on the personality and the antics of the man who was the subject of his film. Without the real life outcast and the iconic fictional outcast, Todd's film career is a big, fat, zero.
the best villains come in two ways to me 1. the early Michael Myers where you don't know what they are thinking or why their doing it or 2. the BTAS MR. Freeze you can understand why they do it even if you don't agree with them. Harley was supposed to be a broken woman who over time got back the ability to act her own wants instead of her obsession of a fantasy in which he loves her.
Mr. Freeze was a well written villain. It's a shame about all the post modernism and cultural marxist praxis. A blight upon entertainment. Maybe people will start reading books again or perhaps a country in Asia will take over the mantle of entertainment? 🤔
Joker was a movie that didn't need a sequel. It was a perfectly standalone film that ended with the tried-and-true Joker question of whether the story we were told was actively true or just another sob story The Joker came up with for the hell of it.
8:49 the person that shanks Athur was not his friend. He was only briefly shown a few times in the movie, but never talking to Arthur. The only prisoner Arthur was friendly with and talked to was killed by one of the guards.
This was definitely one of the best reviews i’ve seen on this channel. so much detail and clear description of the message behind the script. well done Disparu!
Should have advertised this film for masochists, say "if you hate yourself, you should come watch this film" but I guess they're too dense to think up something like that...
Joker 2 should have been this. Joker has been languishing in prison and he starts to feel purposeless. Then, one day on TV he hears about the batman and is immediately obsessed with him because the Joker and Batman are polar opposites. Joker than hatches a plan to escape and he believes that his new therapist Harley Quinn can be manipulated into helping him. He escapes but realizes that he manipulating the system is much more fun than destroying it. It's now time test the limits of the batman
I'd add one small twist... instead of just feeling purposeless, he _also_ is bored, because he finds it too easy to manipulate everyone in the prison/asylum; the other inmates, the guards, his therapist... THEN he sees Batman on tv...
I don't like comic book movies or the super hero genre in general but I absolutely loved the 2019 Joker movie, because it was a masterfully made psychothriller in an age where it became increasingly harder and harder to find good movies. From this perspective it was _not_ "only the comic book bits" that made the Joker a good movie, but the whole setup, the presentation of his psychological state and a whole bunch of other things you seem to despise, though it seems much more like a you problem than anything else.
fyi, it wasn't his friend that killed him. His friend was killed by the guards. He was killed by a random guy that was seen for a split second in the middle of the movie.
Joker: Folie à Deux or Joker 2 review of the sequel no-one wanted. Seemingly specifically designed to destroy the character you were never supposed to like in the first place, This movie destroys the joker as a character, put's Harley Quinn in the position of power and agency between the 2 of them. And sends the message to never fight back against people who wrong you, or you will be destroyed. It's a horrific movie, with a terrible message, and everyone would be better off not watching it. But what did you think of the Joker and Joker 2? Let me know your thoughts down below and as always, thanks for watching :)
Btw the guy that sanks him is not the same person that was with him around the prison. We see him like in two frames before.
If he was Joker then lady G would have taken a bullet to the head just like Murray and for the same poser reasons, because 'you get what you F'n deserve!' I won't be giving dollars to Hwood because monkeys with typewriters sometimes accidentally make a masterpiece
Hello, I must disagree. I really adored the first one. Even if it didn’t actually portray the joker comic fans are used to. But it’s an interesting interpretation of a potential Joker. And the second one isn’t as good as the first, but it shows us, the human being behind the mask of the Joker; furthermore it takes one possible direction, probably not the one most of us expected. But it’s one possible way and this Joker is the inspiration for all the other jokers since the joker as character is the personified evil. So, as in the comics, different people are going to interpret the Joker. This fact is already visible in the first film and, of course, in the second too. Excellent job done by the actors. Especially Joaquin Phoenix. Go see both movies! The second one with its singing parts, which, of course, represent fantasies of the protagonists, are not too long. So, enjoy the movie. The first one is a definite 10 at least a 9. the second one is likable , enjoyable, let's say for me it's a 7, maybe even an 8 out of 10. Greetings from SICILY! :)
@@TubefluxNope, not going to bother giving money for garbage like a j2 good boy.
There is some weird undertone of spite in these films, which clearly wasn't portrayed as the director wanted in the first film. I'm not sure if it's at the audience, or if he resented making superhero movies.
It's funny that the writers felt the need to apologize for the nonexistent violence the first one caused.
They probably hyped it up so much that it made them think it happened
When is CNN gonna apologize for the BLM riots?
But remember, words are violence. And how many words did we all see and hear after that movie came out? I remember words left, right and centre. You couldn’t move for all the words
@@SamtheBravesFanOr, like that old man in Pet Sematary. He pretty much put the idea in the parents’ heads
How was the story of Arthur even connected to 1nceIs in any way, I wonder. There is barely anything about Fleck being a miserable person because he's not getting any wet vice grip. He's miserable because he's a mentally iII loner who was @bus€d by his mentaIIy ill mother.
Sure there was that imagined romance. But it doesn't connect to why Arthur's life was in a downward spiral. It was so because he was abandoned by society as a whole.
Nothing in the movie was saying being Arthur was something you should aspire to be. Nothing glorified his choices.
I can't wait for Barbie 2 to deconstruct Barbie and her fans!
...
That's happening, right?
Turns out everything is just how she mentally perceives herself, but to everyone else she is a hateful, spiteful, vindictive and manipulative, narcissistic monster.
Make that movie! I am sure there's... 6 or so people who want to see it!
I wish...
The Barbie movie partly did well because some thought it was accidentally based, highlighting how much better things are after the Kens take over Barbieland. In a hypothetical sequel, rest assured, the people who thought that will be mocked and vilified.
They'd need to undo the victimhood of Ken and the oppression from the Barbies i think that was a major self-own for feminists how even women were only really talking about Ken
Arguably Barbie 1 deconstructed Barbie. Leave Barbie-world for the gynecologist, whom will most likely split Barbie open during examination.
People had empathy for the character. Not sympathy. He's still responsible for everything he did. But people understood how he got to that point. He was effed up from the beginning and the system didn't do a heck of a lot to get him in a better place. Social services is an industry. Drugs to keep him docile and semi-sane is an industry.
and the sequel end up giving him a terrible closure.
You aren't allowed to empathize, let alone sympathize with white men.
@@jackd6881 You mean the trans school shooters!?
@@jackd6881
What a bunch of woke drivel.
@@itzYonko Tell me you don't know what words mean without telling me you don't.
Hollywood accidentally made a nonterrible movie and immediately backtracked on it.
That sums up the movie & all the reviews
Fight Club, They Live, Taxi Driver, Matrix, American Psycho, and Clockwork Orange. This movie wasn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
@aesop1451
The movie is crap. Stop huffing copium.
It wasn't a good movie
That’s exactly how it feels. 😒
Hope the money to direct it was worth it, because the loss of reputation is gonna cost a lot more.
Nah. He did this before with The Hangover 2.
I have to disagree with you, here. He’s mended his reputation with the people he actually cares about, who are his Hollywood peers. He had to distance himself from that first movie, and he’s done exactly that
@@qty1315 ... and "The Hangover 3".
he's still gonna get work
he's pleasing the people that pay him
Didn’t he get 30 mill for this movie. He will live with playing the studios and as for the fans. If you were a fan of the first and had half a brain then you would have known better than to expect a good sequel. Only normies and the studios lost money. I may check it out on stream.
Funny, isn' t it? Fans like something, and it gets immediately destroyed/ subverted/ twisted. I wonder why?
It's called @bu$e.
It feels like The Last of Us 2 all over again, lol. Jokes on them. I learned my lesson from that piece of shit game and I will not waste time and money on Joker 2.
If these spineless creators want to bend the knee to the Hollywood cult, they can do it without my time and money.
@@plantemorCope. 🫵😂😂😂
@@plantemorLOU2 gameplay still was and is amazing and killing Joel made way more sense then this movie being turned into a musical nice try but that was a dumb ass comparison…
This movie wasn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel "Bonnie and Clyde" capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
The moment it was mentioned this was going to be a musical featuring GaGa, I was out.
Smart move. Its seemed it was only a musical because she’s a “singer”.
Likewise. Can't stand Gaga or her 'music'
@@karanaman68 Same. Can't stand her music and much less her as a person.
To be honest the musical part is not that bad how the made Harley it would have made sense but the story is so fuckin stupid. The first bit when they meet and up until the first 2 songs the movie actually good than they was like: Okay, time to fuck up this fandom too, oh how I like Hollywood we can shit in everybodies plate.
I liked Gaga in the American horror story. Haven't seen her much anywhere else...
I don't understand: Hollywood seems obsessed with making their villians more "relatable". Then when they make one that people can relate to they get upset and promptly retcon and neuter him
they dont want 'fuck the system' villains. they want 'boohoo my feelings' villains, that only lash out against those around them.
@@scratthesquirrel5242 drivel.
It's because they want you to identify with evil, just like they do.
The problem is what they call "relatable" what is relateble to us, and what is relatable to them are two completely different things.
Correction: Hollywood identifies with evil, but only certain kinds of evil. They want the RIGHT KIND of villain to be the hero actually. Joker wasn't the RIGHT KIND of villain. Joker was supposed to be a representation of the people they think are villains in real life.
Part of the reason the propaganda industry _hated_ the first movie was because it accurately called out their insidious role they play in sowing lies and discord and destroying the civility Arthur lamented no one having anymore. Arthur wasn't trying to become a symbol of chaos or a figure to spark and lead a class war, that was ENTIRELY the "news" who spun that false story. One of the most powerful shots to me in the original movie was after Arthur domes Murray on live TV, the feed cuts, then zooms out to a wall of TVs, playing the murder over, and over, _and over_ again, ending with the line "Gotham is burning," because that's what the propaganda industry does; they want you to hate your neighbor.
That the same propagandists love this movie is all you need to know about what an evil, malicious piece of trash it is.
Love your opinion so much I want it to be mine lol
It’s a great example of how often the entertainment class don’t even understand the stories they are telling. It reminds me of that sculptor who made the 40K inspired God Emperor Trump statue believing it would be “terrifying” and it never occurred to him that his audience would think it made Trump look like a powerful badass.
For real. It almost feels like Todd Phillips decided to make an autobiographical movie about how Hollywood broke him and put him on trial for the sins of making a movie that spoke truth to power and how he broke and in the end had to kill his creation to appease his overlords. All the while singing and dancing all the way into his metaphorical grave.
If one decides to watch the sequel in that light, maybe it takes on a different meaning and becomes a meta horror movie lol
Well said..I just hope you are not MAGA brainwashed instead
@@KuldesacMediaA modern version of Yankee Doodle.
It's hilarious because like Disparu said, "The Message" can only go one way. So when confronted with the ideas that someone from a group they dislike, men and more specifically, white men, can suffer and be subjected to horrors and the unfairness of the system, they decided to create a movie which shows that, but showing that THEY, the system, will crush you if YOU, not from a group they like, try to stand up for yourself against the machine, they will destroy you and leave you with nothing. Leave you a paste on the wall that is the machine. Absolutely disgusting.
^ 110% this.
Their time will come
A movie about how fighting back against the system and injustice is bad and you should feel bad for doing it.
Uhh.... okay...
They already showed us this in real life: The people who were in involved in Jan 6th, who committed no crime (not even trespassing because they were let in by security) but were immensely harshly punished regardless and no one has done anything about it. It's the same exact message and the purpose is Demoralization.
@@JeroginoldBlamforddidnt a cop die that day? Also werent they yelling hang mike pence? Didnt they go into the actual senate area? At least they were found by the fbi
It’s always funny to remember how everyone who is an idiot was afraid Joker would cause riots, yet the same people were supporting the actual rioting that happened up… until it came close to their own massive houses.
What was the name of that non-existant theater in Colorado?
The one where a dude identifying as the Joker walked into.
@@puppiesarepower3682 That was like 10 years before this Joker movie though.
Seven. 2012 was the shooting, 2019 Joker premiered
if its funny why is no one laughing ?
Yep
Our rulers have forgotten that "Bread and Circuses" only distracts the population as long as they're actually fed and entertained.
You can fool all the people some of the times, and you can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool everyone all the time.
And that is why the term conspiracy theory was fostered into the minds of Americans after questions about the 1962 assassination of John F. Kennedy by the CIA, I mean Lee Harvey Oswald, an actual CIA asset, I mean lone not gunman who never was a deep asset by Allen Dulles, I mean he was just a crazy guy, I mean, why are we even talking about this? Aren't you sleepy? I am sleepy.
Sure as hell won't be entertained by this movie.
@@vincentvisconi4001 then go watch a different one. Its only a film.
Love this
But aren’t we being entertained by good reviews of Hollywood trash by Disparu 😂
I find it interesting that The Elites(TM) keep yapping about societal problems and justice, but when an actual portrayal of struggle resonates with audiences, they immediately turn around and call it problematic. Why? Where did all that talk of 'seeing yourself in media' go? Because I, neither white nor male, saw myself in a lot of what Arthur went through (not what he did, for obvious reasons). A lot of us did, and that's why the movie got so much acclaim and made so much money.
After years of plastic, sanitized nonsense, to see something so raw caused genuine conversation... which is exactly what these people don't want. They felt intimidated. They felt attacked, because they're shown as the actual villain (because they ARE the villain), and no, I'm not necessarily talking about the wokies or whatever, but the plastic, sanitized elite at the top, roleplaying as human, yet failing again and again.
This is a direct response to us who actually saw ourselves: we're getting told to shut up, accept what we're given, and never question them again. Or else.
Joker is one of my favorite movies of all time, and my experience when watching it at cinemas is unmatched. It's art, and as such, it shows a truth that makes oppressors uncomfortable. I'll do what I always do with spiteful sequels: ignore them. There is no Joker 2.
Or, well, I'll celebrate when it flops and THEN ignore it. It gets what it deserves.
Very well said 👏
And yes, Joker has no sequel.
you should see how people react when you bring up male heightism XD got a whole lotta out of touch, mentally distant boomer tier logic peeps attackcing for that one and they still didnt adress anything said, they just ran away .
There are two distinct type of wokies, the elite side pushing it for their own personnel gain, and the 'flock', the believers, the useful idiots making sure the ideology gets impregnated into all parts of society, as this benefits the elites.
Nigga wtf u ruin everything with shit like this
This white movi3 is just that watch or not u ca t relate to fucking erythiNG
It's almost like Government had a hand in this script.
Hollywood is an arm of the D33p St@te - Crime - Government complex.
They've been involved since the beginning. It's quite an open fact, you probably know, but most have no idea - mainly the sea 👁️ A.
@@theelder4797 I know all about the very very very beginning about that script. And not the one leaked online in 2018.
@@ArthurHillson-cu2 Pray tell
@@msmith323 Nobody wants to know the truth
This really is the worst kind of movie. Not only is it long and boring, it actually ruins the far superior 1st movie. And of course they cucked him. It’s 2024. Harley will never be portrayed as originally written ever again.
Fleck was a simp in the first. Dudes always been awkward and borderline autistic. That’s why he’s always fantasizing. I think the sequel just took the originals cynicism and ramped it up even more.
@@gnosis555 Well, y'all taught them that defeatist cynicism sells. Look at the most popular shows lately.
@@gnosis555 For what i see he was a simp yeah and that was the idea, he was a simp, that was made a simp in a combination of his childhood of abouse, he being lied, the sistem ignore the signs that the person was about to explode, that he was not tace care, when he become the Joker he lash out, he revel, he didnt want to be a simp anymore, he was free of the simp, the second one make him a simp again, all the first one, the lash out, he escaping, was destroy to show, o these is what happen if you revel, you have to be a simp that is the second one
@@gnosis555Plenty of autistic people never simp
As a woman who was in an abusive relationship once, I prefer original Harley. She is far more interesting than girl boss Harley because she literally shows what it is like to be trapped in an abusive relationship and the madness of wanting to stay and feeling like the world is over if you leave the abuser.
What am I supposed to do with girl boss Harley who becomes a lesbian with poison ivy?
Where is the conflict and the drama in that setup? Seriously, where is the conflict?
Give me stories about battered Harley because that shit is real. I lived it. It is the most humiliating chapter of my life and I'm sure many other battered women and men would agree with me.
But I want stories about battered Harley and not girl boss Harley because battered Harley puts a spotlight on abuse and asks uncomfortable questions on the topic. What does girl boss lesbian Harley do? I don't necessarily mind that Harley eventually breaks away from the Joker and hooks up with Ivy. That does sound like a pretty interesting finale to her story, but that is all it is. A finale. You cannot tell interesting stories about Harley' ride into the sunset with her new girlfriend. That isn't what her character is about.
Harley is the best when she is deep in the spiral with Joker and is the most devoted to the man who is destroying her. That is also when her relationship with batman is the most interesting because in her mind it's a love triangle between the three of them and batman is her biggest rival for joker's affection.
How does girl boss lesbian Harley relate to batman? She doesn't. There is no beef there.
This is why Harley's happy ending cannot be the main story and why she must be the symbol of the obsessive abuse victim turned perpetrator. She is the darkest reflection of what someone like me could have become, had my abuser dug his claws into me for life.
Just like how the movie Joker was the darkest reflection of what can happen when mental illness and social isolation goes unchecked.
Taking all agency away from Arthur is the biggest slap this movie does.
He was finally free and happy in a twisted way. For once he could be himself without any restrains.
But nah, let's strip it all away. Joker is 👏an idea. He is just poor little Arthur.
All Disparu does is complain about TV shows and movies. He doesn't talk about political ideas or anything that will move the needle. He just wants YOU to be perpetually outraged so he can make money. This film isn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel "Bonnie and Clyde" capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
@@aesop1451ain’t reading all that
@@aesop1451 I do agree that disparu is a shit stirrer, but he is right about one thing: the first movie wouldn't have been successful without the IP. The penguin, for instance, is a gritty crime drama. But it doesn't lose its identity as a batman spinoff. By trying to strip off the comic book elements, it just alienated the fanbase. Only thing I can say is that, I had lost all interest as soon as I heard that Harley Quinn was going to be there in the movie.
0:17 that's the funny part about this for me
They've unintentionally told the world what they think of us, and it's one of disgust and abject revilement, turning a character that the director originally said was meant to be an examination of how the system abandons people, into a man who bleeds out at the end is a perfect example of what they think.
It was very intentional. That's why they literally have him raped, dumped and stabbed lol
As horrible as this movie sounds, it comes across as unintentionally based 😂.
However bad you dislike the system, you really don't hate it enough lol
He is one of the people who is why the system abandons people, so he ironically recognizes that the system does it but not that it's because that's what he wants . He just is picky about who should be abandoned.
Joker 1 was great because against all the odds Arthur survived by becoming Joker.
Joker 2 the fans wanted this journey to continue not to kill off Arthur and have him abused for no reason.
Joker 2 is what we feared about what the first film might’ve been:
A Batman spinoff film set in the world of Batman without Batman
About a recurring character that actually wasn’t that recurring character.
I don't even put it in the entire Batman lexicon.
I think jokers a more interesting character than Batman anyway to be honest
@@BaxterSquee Why not the Riddler. He's been the Gotham Times Crossword quiz designer for 19 years and 5 months before retirement Wayne enterprise replaces him with an AI crossword program.
I guess. But honestly I never even watch superhero movies I just watched joker cause I heard it was good so I wouldn’t know lol
Todd Philips trying to huff his own farts about "cinema" is hilarious. The guy who brought the world The Hangover Part 3 and Road Trip.
I think you need a Film Auteur’s lofty sneer for the word “CineMah”.
At least road trip had Tom green to make it funny.
He also made Joker, is that not why you're here in the first place?
@@keiphysheegie One good movie after making a mountain of slop, then right back to making trash
@@mecham5818 so what? You're still here because he made a good movie, no doubt your narrative just change after the sequel, because for some reason you feel betrayed, it's fucking hilarious to me.
Hafuckungha
Joaquim Phoenix is going to be the first to jump from an Oscar to a Razzie prize with the same character.
Amazing feat!
I think Halle Berry was the first
she won an oscar for MonsterBall
and took it with her to get her razzie for Catwoman
@@itsaKindaMagik I always do that in my head canon as well. Monsterball is why she's so fked up come Catwoman. Just like Red Foreman didn't really go to war he used to live in Detroit and that's why he's the way he is in that 70s show.
@@itsaKindaMagik the poster said the SAME character. Halle won the Oscar and Razzies for two different roles.
Joaquin and the guy who play Gary were the only good thing of the sequel
His acting wasnt the problem. But Razzies, being the pansies they are, might take this opportunity to give him a razzie. I'd say, kevin Hart from Borderlands is a better choice. If anything, Phoenix deserved a razzie for Napoleon.
The director of the Hangover 2 is critical of what people consider "actual movies" ok
Todd Philips must be the type of person who would criticize a five year old kids art, even if it were his own child.
Todd Philips is the kind of guy that would sell his mother into slavery for 25 shekkels
you gotta criticize the 5 year olds or else they will grow up thinking they know how to draw then get bullied
dude gets gang raped in prison.... then murdered. WTF
after hearing this im not even going to the cinema bru
I was honestly trying to make myself think I imagined that bit with the guards, but I keep seeing people thinking the same…
That's the end of this movie?
NO F'n WAY!!!!!!!
And the message of the movie must be that rape is good because it stopped him from wanting to be Joker anymore.
Casting Lady Gaga was the first red flag.
Actually she's the least bad thing here. She's the only kind of accurate Harley we have gotten
Joker Goes Gaga
Lady Gaga, looks like a dude.
The title 'Folie à Deux' was a red flag as well.
Yeah, that dude is insanely overrated!
Just look at how much auto tune it takes for each song?
Now he wants to “act”!?
These people don't even know how an insanity defense like this works. The sanity of Arthur would've been adjudicated *before* the trial ever happened. As in, if he was found to have been insane, there wouldn't have been a trial, because he -- by definition -- wouldn't be sane enough to stand trial, and he just would've been shoved into a mental institution.
Dude, seeing how Fucced up the Judicial System in the USA (and many European countries influenced by progs) is...Mental Health at this point it's just used as an excuse to not prosecute people (specially if is a "protected demographic").
It happened some time ago where a White girl o Arizona was attacked by a Black girl with a knife, they tried to use "emotional problems" as a form to drop the charges even when the perpetrator admited the victim was an "easy target".
To add to this: He would be institutionalized until he was deemed sane enough to stand trial. There is no statute of limitations on murder, so he would be either in a hospital or in prison for the rest of his life, either way.
Sure, but that's been Hollywood stupidity for a long time, not necessarily unique to this movie. There's literally dozens of movies where they act like a successful insanity defense means they simply walk free forever. No different from how Hollywood thinks that you can pull surprise witnesses out in the middle of a trial, or that you can question a witness then suddenly pull shocking surprise evidence out in the middle of trial without having disclosed it beforehand, or not getting read your Miranda rights means they instantly walk free regardless of any other evidence.
Hollywood simply has no idea how actual law really works.
Shoved into a mental institution..... where he could have met Harley Quinn, a therapist/psychologist who tries to get him back to "normal," but Joker instead uses the opportunity to corrupt and recruit her, leading to their escape and another attack on Arkham.
Oh wait, that's an actually good story. 😂
This is exactly how it happened in the movie. You clearly didn't watch it.
The first movie was a tale of a broken man shunned from and failed by society. A man who was driven to brutal acts to claim an iota of agency over his life in a society that had labeled him as a subhuman whelp, robbing him of his humanity and hope.
It was a perfect exemplification of the saying "If a child isn't given the love of the village he will burn it down to feel its warmth"
A cautionary tale illustrating how an uncaring society can turn a broken victimized man into a villainous figure.
The second movie was a exemplification of the degrading, ruthless way society paints broken men that ultimately drives them to silent lives of hopeless desperation.
It's actually incredibly meta even though it was completely unintentional.
Indeed. I consider the sequel to be an autobiographical depiction of Hollywood raking Todd Phillips over the coals after the success of the first movie. Them breaking him and having him kill what he created to restore balance in the cult.
I doubt TP was influenced by anybody to destroy this character. He knew what he was going to do with this character even before the first Joker came out. This was never intended to be the REal Joker,just a lowlife killer who wants to be THe JOKER and fails at it. IN the end , the chosen one emerges from the shadows to claim the Title of Joker for himself after Arthur gives up. JOker is a title you earn, not just any anarchist loser can be The Joker. It's like trying to be The Devil, he is so much more than a just a killer....a character complex enought that Heath Ledger hmiself even died trying to portray.....
When you realized that Jared Leto’s Joker is more respectful to this character than Todd Phillips version.
If you take away the DC elements, the movies are a terrible "Taxi Driver" fan fiction. I suspect that's why the writer/director wanted De Niro in the first one.
@@thrrax could not have said it better!
That is faint praise
@@thrrax
I highly disliked the first movie and never understood the hype.
Batman whispers into Joker's ear: "I prefer Jared Leto."
This movie should have been called Lady Gaga and clown guy
Lady gaga and a clown backing dancer guy.
The funniest thing to me, is that the movie they hate, the first Joker movie, is the one that had a sympathetic villain, with a morally nuanced/relative perspective, and deconstructed the main character. It literally did all of the things that they claim to be doing, and was actually good, because it did them competently. Yet they hate it, because it did them competently.
The great irony in this is that the Joker was never even meant to be a sympathetic character to begin with. His entire schtick was chaos for chaos' sake, even with multiple iterations of the Joker openly mocking the idea of having a consistent backstory to begin with because it's so utterly irrelevant for his character. Yet the first movie managed to still explore that backstory (or at least a possible backstory, since of course characters will have countless different implementations and versions) in a way that actually worked with it quite well. In fact, while there has been a lot of debate over how Fleck's Joker would really work with Batman given he's middle aged when Bruce would still be a child (ergo by the time Bruce becomes the Batman Fleck would likely be in his 60s+) Fleck's Joker would actually parallel Batman quite well. Both Fleck and Bruce were beaten down by traumatic events and functionally 'broke', leaving behind everything they were to become a new identity in complete response to the events that caused them. While Bruce decided to try to stop the crime throughout the city through fear, Fleck decided to try to tear down the entire system by inspiring a vague hope of something better afterwards. It's honestly an incredibly good mirror of Batman's character, that still somehow manages to be very definitively "The Joker". (Fleck himself isn't necessarily *_trying_* to be inspirational, but it's the role he's filling)
So they hate the movie that successfully did everything they claim to, and not only did it succeed wildly in deconstructing and reimagining the source material, it did so while still perfectly fitting with the character and story it was immitating. (arguably even solving problems that the originals never did/could. I mean, why would anyone work for the Joker? Well, Gotham is so fucked up and corrupt that is it really all that surprising that an Arthur Fleck-like Joker would spur a disorganized yet loyal-to-the-death movement of people perfectly willing to go along with whatever insane plans he comes up with?)
Yeah… but white guys liked it so it’s bad and dangerous. Get with the program!
well, that sounds like the Human ,ANti-HEro Joker. The point you miss here is that the Real JOker is NOT Human. The REal JOker does not care to inspire the people, the REal JOker is not a mere anarchist who wants chaos just for the sake of chaos, he can't be a REal Villain that way, His true motives are far more sinister. This guy Arthur was on a path of self destruction . Not really understanding the TRue Nature of what it means to be The JOker, he failed and got shanked. Because in the end, The Real Joker only uses chaos as a tool for his true purpose, which is to create his own version of the New WOrld Order in where he rules over everything instead of the Government. And the clowns take over the world....
"It's not about the money it's about sending a message"
Exactly, this is done on purpose. Its been a thing for years, its being done to videogames, movies, books, etc
no it's about all the money. And sending a message. a message of FUk u UP the asz Joaquin Phoenix....RIP Heath Ledger we all know you played the Real JOker now you can be at peace
The minute I heard Lady Gaga was in this, I knew it was fucked. The exact same thing I said when Disney bought Star Wars and Microsoft got the Halo IP.
Microsoft always had Halo since it was made by Bungie exclusively for the Original Xbox owned by Microsoft, that was the deal from the start and it was a contract for at least 3 games. In fact Halo was so successful that Microsoft originally planned to buy Bungie, but Bungie declined the offer because they wanted to remain an independent games company. I'm glad they did that, even though Bungie is a shadow of it's former self, just like BioWare a once great studio who made the Mass Effect trilogy.
@@chindleymuffin No, they got Bungie under contract, not the Halo IP outright. Microsoft agreed to let Bungie out of the contract if they made 2 more Halo games and sold them the IP.
What a way to go and to waste that golden opportunity they were given.
If only you knew the half of it.
The joker became, ironically, a joke.
What a spiteful world we live in.
im shocked they didnt use 'I started a joke' as inspiration
This movie wasn't a backtrack. The film critics liked the first film more than the second anyways, so that goes against the idea of the elites being behind the second film. Arthur's story is a Shakespearean tragedy like Macbeth. What does "happily ever after" even mean for someone like the Joker? Fighting Batman and robbing banks? Disparu acts like he cares about the themes of the first movie, but then he just admits he wanted another Marvel "Bonnie and Clyde" capesh1t movie. He also defends Tommy R0binson even though Tommy is controlled opposition. The system is against us and glowies like Disparu are like, "Go do something that will get you arrested and ruin your life, young man." People suffer in silence in real life every day and no superhero swoops in to save them. Disparu wants more g0yslop instead of a gritty, real, and tragic movie.
well yeah, Arthur became a joker....wait I keep calling him Arthur, his name is Murray my bad. as we all know, the REal JOker kills MUrray in the end. it shows you that FOnies will all get humiliated in the end....
oops his name is arthur , man I keep getting confused
When I first saw people talking about the Joker getting raped in prison, I honestly thought they were just making it up as a "this movie was so bad, that may as well have happened too" kind of joke. (un)holy hell
That's the kind of joke they used to do on late night comedy talk shows, such as Jay Leno's: he's going to get ***ed in prison.
He did in the movie
Boycott all future movies ,tv shows by Todd Philips.
Disrespect will not be tolerated.
I think the most appropriate reaction to Phillips is to look at him weirdly, ask him what the hell is wrong with him, and then walk away before he can answer.
😂 how dare he disrespect a fake character
@@ObsidianFane It's not about the disrespect to the character itself that matters, it's the disrespect to the fans. I don't know if you're unintentionally dense or just a troll, but perhaps think before you make yourself seem a fool.
@@ObsidianFanehe didn’t disrespect a character. He disrespected his audience. And that’s unforgivable. People can tell when the director blatantly shows his contempt for the audience.
@jims7383 unforgivable man, he'll never work a day in Hollywood again, the fans have spoken.
You get what you phucking deserve.
🤡
Warner Brothers: Joker made over a billion. Let's make a sequel and lose whatever it cost to make it.
Agenda over money
Communism
WB is in the toilet these days.
Ah yes! Todd Phillips, a real auteur. With movies such as Road Trip, the Starsky and Hutch remake, and the Hangover movies. Who doesn't love his serious work and highbrow humor.
Why did they think we want a courtroom drama? What a boring setting for an entire movie like this. Then the ending...
Terrible movie
See, that's the issue. Nothing in this movie was made for the audience.
When the only good thing that literally anyone can say about your movie is the CINEMATOGRAPHY, you've made a terrible movie.
Courtroom was a great setting actually. Had they actually tried and created some form of a case. The point of court rooms in movies is NOT to hold a trial, which is all they did in this movie, but to use it to DEBATE the central THEMES of the movie!
Amistad is not about whether slaves are cargo and thus insurable. The trial is the framework from which we hang the banner "Slavery Bad!".
Look at the scene with Gary. That legit was a strong counter to Joker's righteous anger.
"You didn't hurt me? I have nightmares! I can't sleep. I'm afraid all the time!"
Arthur didn't kill Gary... but he did hurt him. Even after saying he wouldn't.
This is where a good movie would have a moment of introspection for the main character. But they don't. They have him beaten up in the shower by representatives of the same system that caused him to break and lash out in the first place. Gary should have been Arthur's trigger to stop the theatrics and deal with the situation seriously.
Joker, of which I am now convinced entirely by accident, made the brash statement in a swamp of safe slop movies that you can only kick the bottom rung of society so much until it breaks and the whole ladder falls apart. It said way more than it ever intended to say as evidenced by it's director being so ass mad he killed his golden goose.
Joker 2 says that if you ever lash out at the system and make a name for yourself you'll be beaten back in line and someone will gut you and steal your identity. And in that it says even less than nothing.
Because the courts give them the illusion of legitimacy and power.
They’re still upset about the critics of shehulk 😂
This movie might wreck Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix’s careers.
More like a nail in Phoenix’s coffin considering the disaster that was Napoleon.
@@duncanharrell5009 and he upset his primary fan base by pulling out of a movie he pitched.
Who cares, both Joaquin and Todd are cowards.
@@blazingmonolith4323 their moms probably care.
Shame, but ultimately necessary for bending to the will of the elite.
The fun thing is that usually hollywood could make good movies and bad movies. You shaunt the bad movies and watch the good ones and become a fan even for years. Now the message is "doesn't matter if the movie we put out is good. We'll ruin it later with prequels and sequel, so don't bother getting invested'.
It's not just that they make bad sequels. For example, Halloween and Friday the 13th have bad sequels, but they remain faithful to the spirit and characters, and the first chapters remain cult classics. The problem with modern Hollywood is that they want to deconstruct and change everything told in previous films. Thus, Luke Skywalker is no longer the true chosen one, John Connor is no longer the leader of the resistance, Rocky is a pathetic loser and Joker is not the real Joker, and so on...
Serves you right for getting yourself "invested" in Jewry.
Just stick with the one that’s good and fck the rest.
Post Modernism & Cultural Marxism has been awful for entertainment. Read books. Solzhenitsyn, perhaps?
Or you could just ignore the existence of the sequel. It's pretty easy to all things considered.
Case in point, I have never seen any of the new Star Wars movies and know nothing about them even to this day, and it is lovely. I know Luke Skywalker drinks green milk... uh, there's a... uh... I think Palpatine is in it somehow?
This movie could have worked as a "Joker" movie if, at the end, Arthur does truly break and The Joker is all that's left... and the last scenes we see is him going full Joker, taking his revenge on the asylum... taking his revenge and breaking Harley down until their roles reverse back to what they're supposed to be with her becoming broken and obsessed but this time with the monster she helped create for her own selfish reasons... poetic justice in a sense that she becomes manipulated and broken by the man she manipulated and broke.
But no, Arthur instead just meets his end as a pathetic little man who dared to stand up for himself just once, everyone else gets what they want and he's just broken and discarded, and even 'The Joker' looks like it'll be taken by some other guy (which is not a bad idea per se, but executed terribly)
Joker 1: You get what you deserve.
Joker 2: You do what we tell you.
I think that's something I was waiting to see in the first Joker movie; Joker's genius. Even in the Jack Nicholson portrayal, Joker had a certain genius, however evil.
But Heath Ledger took it to a new, subtle level. Where Nicholson's Joker was genius in making cool (if murderous) toys... Ledger's was a genius at manipulating people. When he said he was like a dog chasing cars; without a plan... that was a complete lie. He out-thought his opponents in The Dark Knight. If not for Batman's "sacrifice" at the end, Joker would have won.
So I waited through the first movie for some sign of his suppressed genius to show itself... only to be disappointed. Then I waited to see/hear the reviews of the 2nd movie... and now I discover he's still not an evil genius.
IMO, w/o that evil genius... he's _not_ The Joker.
This is not the Joker that would fight Batman. This Joker is so pathetic that Batman would ignore him.
@@HiraghmI don't think this Joker would have needed to be a genius. The first movie was too realistic for that. I think he would have been an extreme version of Charles Manson. Someone that inspired people to commit acts of violence and was a symbol. He was already idolised at the end of the first film and caused a riot, so this fits tbh.
They should've kept the idea that Arthur became famous, had the film made about himself etc. As this feeds into the idea about him becoming a symbol. But they should've kept Arthur confident and violent, like the end of the first film.
Also, he doesn't have to fight Batman physically. Batman fighting the crime Arthur continued to influence would have been enough.
I mean.. that is kinda what happened in the first movie. He fully broke and became fully the Joker in the first movie.
I also feel like that Joker wouldn't even give a Harley Quinn the time of day. If anything he would just straight up kill her like he did the therapist at the end of the first movie. Arthur Fleck was meant to be alone. In that setup, Harley just doesn't fit in. Arthur Fleck isn't really the manipulative type. Todd Phillips didn't show a character who likes trying with other people's minds. The closest we get to him being manipulative is when he takes his time letting Gary out of his apartment, but that is more so a power trip than it is manipulation. If anything, it is the world around Arthur that is manipulative. People manipulating him and taking advantage of him for being weak and trusting.
So the fact that they announced that Harley would be in the sequel made me scratch my head because this Joker is not a master manipulator. He's not an organized crime boss. He is a mentally ill loner and he must stay that way.
It should've never had a sequel. It was a fun "what if" movie which people seem to forget is a very common storytelling tool within super hero comics. This one was never meant to be canon.
It kinda served the same purpose as Silent Hill Shattered Memories which, from a story point, is probably one of my favourite silent hill games.
It takes the events of the first game and reimagines it and recontextualize the story to create a more grounded story about a broken mind that is struggling to come to terms with a trauma in their life.
I would never consider Shattered Memories canon to the original silent hill games, but it is still very much part of the franchise and it is a worthy entry if we ignore the nightmare that is the wii controller during the escape scenes. Hell on earth, man.
Anyway, I see Joker in the same way. It takes a classic character and recontextualize him and his story in a more grounded world with a focus on the tragedy of his broken mind.
It was never meant to be more than that.
Hollywood is a bunch of pdf file. I've only been to the movie theater once in the last 5 years
idle hands was the last thing i saw in theater. No regrets.
From the beginning it was clear to me they just wanted to have A star is born 2.
so Road Trip, Old School, Starsky & Hutch 2004 and The Hangover were supposed to be considered "Real Movies"... MOOOOM, TODD IS OFF THE MEDS AGAIN!!!!!
Hangover sequels weren't very good, the last one in particular was very meh. Meds, Todd. Now. 💊
The bizarre thing about all this is, that "The Joker", as a character archetype, works perfectly well outside of any comicbook context already.
The person completely divorced from society, morals and laws, who only exists to test the self righteousness of said system against utter chaos.
You don't need any DC comics connections for that to already be a perfect backdrop for a character centric story.
Falling Down...
@@1SpicyMeataball Yup, similar, but the premisses are very different.
Falling Down is a more personal cautionary tale about frustration, apathy and escallation. William has the mother of all shitty days, but the loss of control is on him.
Arthus is severely mentally ill and effectively shunned by society. His escallation is not entirely within his own power.
And that's what resonated with people.
Feeling abandoned or ostracized for illnesses, being a victim of crime no one cares for etc.
Both are "the quiet kid that had enough", but the overall power dynamic is vastly different.
And i think the issues highlighted in Joker, and the fact that they are very contemporary real life problems that we love to talk about but ultimately don't give a shit about hit a little too close to home in hindsight.
No need for a sequel
This somehow makes me dreaded for Squid Game, which also doesn’t need a sequel.
A sequel doesn't need to exist,it just needs to be good and not ruin the original.
No need for the first one.
@naamadossantossilva4736 the original, in this case, ruined itself.
@@g.r.bilyeu4226wrong
The first movie was great! An UNEXPECTED DELIGHT! I feel so horrid that the 2nd is this way.
I can only say, I'm so glad I didn't followed my friends when they said "Let's go see it the day of the release".
I will never watch this movie.
Hail Disparu! :D
wonder how the investors feel after the director telling the audience the movie to f off
genius!
watch the cash roll in!
Joker 2: Full of doo-doo.
Joker 2: Electric Boogaloo
From Joker to Cucker.
From joker to the writer.
What revenge? They're the ones who burned money.
They dont care about the money thats how smug they are
Some Hollyweird guys just want to see the world burn after all.
@@NephritduGrey the world AND their money!
The real Joker: “It’s not about money, it’s about sending a message.”
@thedestroyer2alltrolls411 They're not the Joker tho. They're the joke for buring the money they desperately need because they're in debt.
It was clear the first was Lighting in a Bottle... soon as I heard "musical" I knew I wasn't gonna see it
“Some are a moth in a can”
-The Rumjacks
Well, at least Heath Ledger's live-action Joker is still the best on screen. And yes, you could make the arguement for Jack's in 1989 but Ledger was perfect to me
Nicholson was all right, but imagine if Brad Dourif. (Burton wanted him, but the studio wanted a bigger name.)
@@MemoristCed True. I just tend to give Nicholson some credit because some people go "HE'S THE BEST JOKER, LEDGER WAS OVERRATED!" And I don't care to hear that. Ledger had the perfect one regardless though. Terrifying yet humorous in a sadistic way
@@thomasg2488 Absolutely agreed. Nicholson did what he does to the role and it was to his credit; I think the last person who'd held it down was Cesar Romero.
Ledger's is that perfect landing between all those things the Joker is supposed to be, and makes it completely believable. Anyone who says Nolan doesn't know what he is doing, never saw that movie.
So they can mishandle management of a prison, or give nothing to mentally ill people as seen in the first movie. They can do everything wrong and that's ok.
But when Arthur does thngs his way for once, he must be neutered not because he is a murderer, but because he went againts the system.
Outstanding move.
Miss me with Joker 2. Will never see it.
In a nutshell, this movie is propaganda.
I'm not watching it.
i feel like the writers were seemingly annoyed that mostly everyone that watched the movie was on arthurs side so they compensated by taking a steaming load all over his character in this one.
Disparu - you are a unique and intelligent voice and a rare truth-teller in the vast see of movie reviewers. You truly get to the deep heart of each movie or series - the good, the bad, and the awful. I loved your coverage of the Acolyte and laughed so hard I nearly fell out of my chair (“throbbing!”). I think you and the critical drinker are the very best at what you do. You have elevated movie reviews to new heights. I watch your videos even about movies and series that I have no interest in, just to hear your take and to laugh out loud when you skewer the ridiculous choices some of these “creators” like Lesley headland and Todd Phillips make. Your videos are far more entertaining than just about anything put out by the big studios. Thank you! More more please.
💯
I can't believe they had joker get a visit from diddy in prison
10/10
Throwing a white party...? Yikes 🤢
$200 million budget, nearly twice that of star studded Megalopolis.
And $130 million more than the first one, which ended up making $1 billion in revenue.
Cant wait to watch a Megalopolis/Folie a Deux double bill. PEAK evening of cinema right there XD
WB should sue him for ruining the brand.
I hate Hollywood, period.
Lately i discovered that John Wick goes Girlboss...what the f is wrong with the DEI sxum?
They come for everything in the end.
Why are you acting like Girlbossism is new? Alien? Terminator? Kill BIll? Wanted? G I jane?
Girl boss in movies.
Cause they always f it up in real life
@@narem1092the difference is, the women in the first two movies you mentioned were cool, actually well written with defined flaws and strengths, and not a patronising "they can do no wrong" approach to writing characters who are female.
@@narem1092 I had to look up clips of Wanted. I know I saw it, but I can't remember a single thing about it. Howardax covers the 1st 2 movies. Kill Bill is in a strange category. Everything was stylized over the top bad ass because that's what the director is known for. The guys weren't believable either. I'd say G I Jane is the only true Girl Boss movie. Because magically she is capable of anything.
The name itself is a double entendre and no one caught it. The literal translation is madness for two but phonetically, it sounds like follie adieu, or goodbye mistake.
Interesting
I could see it being possible that someone who has mental illness and spouts conspiracy theories could inspire someone else who has mental illness to believe what they're saying. Then creates a feedback loop as they encourage the first to take action.
@@sandal_thong8631I have the an idea of what you’re saying but I really would like you to clarify so I can tear into you properly.
Nothing worth repeating or explaining @@フランクランドン
I read how Joker 2 ended and I just laughed. The first thing I thought of was The Last of Us 2. Arthur Fleck basically got Joel'd! I hope going out of your way to antagonize and give a huge middle finger to the audience that liked the first movie was worth it, Hollywood! 👍
Hollywood did the same thing with the James Bond franchise.
Daniel Craig swooped that role from Piers Brosnan. They didnt even do it formally but just fired him over phone.
Then he gets his balls crushed. Deserved. Better him than Pierce in that cuck role.
And the Lord of the Rings franchise, and the Star Wars franchise, and the Star Trek franchise, and the -- pick one, I'm tired of typing.
@@mixelplik Hollywood just has a death wish.
Quite a disappointing movie also quite disappointed how they find this lightning on a bottle and they wasted it away.
And it was WB,which is in dire straits.This may be their death kneel.
*in
It's classic Warner incompetence. They lost out on a lot of profit from the first film due to the financing deal made to spread the risk. Then they put out a sequel, with a far larger budget, probably less risk mitigation, and they think this is what fans of the first film would pay to see? How do these people operate trousers without burning down their homes?
Now you know why there are so many wildfires in Southern California 😂
At the very least WB didn't make a lot of money off the first one and even less now with the deliberately botched sequel. Karma is a bitch...
Fuck, I just walked out of Wal-Mart 10 minutes ago with a 4K bluray of the 2019 Joker movie. Saddens me
Just do it like with Indiana Jones or star Wars, there have been only three movies for those and only one Joker film.
What Nephrit said. Just like there's only one The Last of Us game, and only 2 Terminator movies.
@@TheVillainInGlasses yeah but Terminator Salvation gave us a full movie during the War of the Machines, it deserves some credits
Only two Alien movies.
@@NephritduGrey Exactly. Just because something exists, it doesn't mean you have to acknowledge it.
Who gives 100's of millions of dollars to a writer and director to make... this shit?
This is one instance where the studio should demand their money back, lol.
Blackrock, Vanguard, some others...
wrong.
they gave that money with the directive to make it this way.
They accomplished their goals. They flipped off the fans of the first movie.
@@mixelplik More accurately, probably mostly everyone who enjoyed the first one.
Wasn't it Zack Snyder who said he wanted to see Batman get graped in prison. So Todd Phillips just took that idea except it's Arthur instead of Batman.
Same demonic of Hollywood have said the same about Donald Trump & his family.
Jeez... Hollywood really is full of demons
WTF? Snyder is a truly twisted dude. I don't know who's more offputting, he or his insufferable and cringy fanboys.
@@nikkili8944seriously Snyder want batman raped in prison, this dude more hack than Bruce Timm with his batman and Batgirl relationship if this true I not Snyder fan anymore
@@nikkili8944 you kidding , please tell me someone that this is not true
When someone releases a work that’s taken completely differently than they intended, it just shows how far disconnected, the artist class is, from the working class. Their audience no longer identifies with their work in the way they intended. There is no actual representation of the working class, in our collective entertainment. There used to be mid-budget films but that era no longer exists. Unfortunately for Hollywood, regular people are no longer enamored by what they have to offer so we’re no longer buying what they’re selling.
I mean, you used to have things like Minority Report. Which, while not The Greatest Movie of All Time™ was still pretty good and worth watching.
You just reminded me of a movie, maybe a made-for-tv movie, starring Mark Hamill, from '86, called "Let's Get Harry".
A group of construction workers' friend is kidnapped in Colombia... when the gov't can't/won't do anything about it, these blue-collar construction-worker types hire a mercenary and go down to free their friend. Ordinary, blue-collar types... with agency. That was the message back then in the Reagan era; you _are_ competent, you _are_ capable, you _can_ win.
The exact opposite of what it appears the media wants to promote today.
I just thought of a quote from another movie about a persecuted genius villain who decides to watch the world burn:
" Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark. Do not let the hero in your soul perish in lonely frustration... for the life you deserve, but have never been able to reach. The world you desire can be won. It exists. It is real. It is possible. It is yours. This is John Galt speaking." - Atlas Shrugged part III
Had they made Joker more like that in the sequel, I think it would have resonated and been a success.
I watched Joker 1 again tonight in spite
"We apologize for the violence our first film inspired. _Here's a self-flagelating sequel."_
But no violence was inspired by the first film.
In fact, Frozen 2 had more violence on opening night than The Joker did.
@@DH-xw6jp That's part of the joke.
The first film I never saw as a "comic-book film" as, well, I'm not a fan of them at all. The Joker I thought was excellent film and looked forward to a sequel, but...but...but....butt!
I was like that with Blade. Wasn't a comic book reader at that time since a kid and I didn't know all the comic book characters. I found out after the movie Blade was a comic book character. You'd never know that from the movie it was. It was just a good action movie with a good story. And they were Vampires.
Fuck, this is what they tried with rings of power isn't it?
More like Joel playing golf.
"You can't sympathize with this character. You're not supposed to like him anymore. And in order to prevent the message 'that you should stand up for yourself' we have to show you the message of 'what happens when you do'. [...] It's the message that 'no matter how horrible, how disgusted, how unhappy you are for your entire life, you should NEVER, absolutely NEVER stand up for yourself. Because if you do, it will be worse. There will be worse consequences. And if you try to fight back, they'll crush you even more".
There. Thank you. You perfectly summed it up. That's the core of the movie, and it's a despicable one. Utterly disgusting.
Joker has never had a double personality and dont wear clown make up. He was a total psycho, for the sake of destruction. His only goal.
There are so many versions of the Joker character in the DC canon that it is impossible to determine his character or goals. From the clown from the Silver Age, to the “new ordinary man” from A House on Serious Earth, and much, much more.
Spoiler if you haven't seen the movie- You described exactly this psycho dude at the end of Joker 2, who apparently os the real one? But for me Arthur Fleck persona as the Joker was more interesting.
@@piotrd7355 We already have a double personality guy though his name is Harvey he's in the movie. What makes Batman villains great is they are unique tropes. I don't want my Mister Freeze making stupid jokes like the Riddler I'm looking at you Tim Burton.
I'd wondered why Joker wasn't in the Legion of Doom on the _Superfriends_ animated series when I was a kid. I figured Luthor realized he was too unreliable to follow orders for a cause. But then I found out they were thinking of using him for another animated series so didn't release his character for that one.
well it was Joel Schumacher who directed Batman & Robin with Mr. Freeze making ice puns
You've got to give it to Hollywood when even after multiple years of hundred-million-dollar flops, at a time when the industry is constantly crying about how tough things are and how terrified they are for the future of their careers, they continue to think it's a good idea to attack the paying audience and keep poking that bear.
Because promoting their ideology is more important than anything else. When push comes to shove ideology ALWAYS trumps money.
That's because the suits making these decisions have all sorts of golden parachutes to protect them for failure. The only people losing their jobs over these bad decisions are the lower level people, camera crew, stuntmen, the people who build sets. Those are the first to go and none of the suits will care.
When I saw the first Joker, I could plainly see that Todd Phillips at least skimmed Alan Moore's "Batman: The Killing Joke," and Frank Miller and Klaus Jansen's "Batman: The Dark Knight Returns." So add that to nicking Martin Scorsese, and you realize that Todd Phillips doesn't have an original bone in his body. So if he's telling us to eff off, well, eff you right back, Todd. In my opinion, the only decent movie he ever made was the documentary, "Hated: GG Allin and the M*rder Junk!es." Even then, he was coasting on the personality and the antics of the man who was the subject of his film. Without the real life outcast and the iconic fictional outcast, Todd's film career is a big, fat, zero.
Thank u for saving us the money and suffering.
The globalists have intervened in this movie.The movie was very disappointing.
the best villains come in two ways to me 1. the early Michael Myers where you don't know what they are thinking or why their doing it or 2. the BTAS MR. Freeze you can understand why they do it even if you don't agree with them. Harley was supposed to be a broken woman who over time got back the ability to act her own wants instead of her obsession of a fantasy in which he loves her.
Mr. Freeze was a well written villain. It's a shame about all the post modernism and cultural marxist praxis. A blight upon entertainment. Maybe people will start reading books again or perhaps a country in Asia will take over the mantle of entertainment? 🤔
Joker and Harley: ‘La-la-la-ha-ha-ha, Foile à Deux’
Deadpool: ‘Wow! Their love story sucks. This movie gets what it freaking deserve’
When the sequel was first announced, I had a suspension that they were goong to try and "fix" the original.
Joker was a movie that didn't need a sequel. It was a perfectly standalone film that ended with the tried-and-true Joker question of whether the story we were told was actively true or just another sob story The Joker came up with for the hell of it.
"Joker isn't in these films " "Not comicbook films"
bloody hell I agree with Disparu
I wonder if WB was totally okay with him making a movie bad on purpose.
It seems so. Remember that famous quote from another joker "its not about money..."
8:49 the person that shanks Athur was not his friend. He was only briefly shown a few times in the movie, but never talking to Arthur. The only prisoner Arthur was friendly with and talked to was killed by one of the guards.
This was definitely one of the best reviews i’ve seen on this channel. so much detail and clear description of the message behind the script. well done Disparu!
Your editing is so smooth, appreciated it!
Bot.
@@dlewis9760 Schizo!
Should have advertised this film for masochists, say "if you hate yourself, you should come watch this film" but I guess they're too dense to think up something like that...
Joker 2 should have been this.
Joker has been languishing in prison and he starts to feel purposeless. Then, one day on TV he hears about the batman and is immediately obsessed with him because the Joker and Batman are polar opposites. Joker than hatches a plan to escape and he believes that his new therapist Harley Quinn can be manipulated into helping him.
He escapes but realizes that he manipulating the system is much more fun than destroying it. It's now time test the limits of the batman
I'd add one small twist... instead of just feeling purposeless, he _also_ is bored, because he finds it too easy to manipulate everyone in the prison/asylum; the other inmates, the guards, his therapist... THEN he sees Batman on tv...
@@Hiraghm yeah I think that’s a good idea
I don't like comic book movies or the super hero genre in general but I absolutely loved the 2019 Joker movie, because it was a masterfully made psychothriller in an age where it became increasingly harder and harder to find good movies. From this perspective it was _not_ "only the comic book bits" that made the Joker a good movie, but the whole setup, the presentation of his psychological state and a whole bunch of other things you seem to despise, though it seems much more like a you problem than anything else.
fyi, it wasn't his friend that killed him. His friend was killed by the guards. He was killed by a random guy that was seen for a split second in the middle of the movie.
How to destroy your reputation
After watching the depressing Joker 2 fans will go out and vote for TRUMP to bring back justice and caring for others.
The movie turned into a glam project to highlight Lady Gaga. It was a movie to service her need and wants to be an actress.