New nose for an old board
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- Опубліковано 28 січ 2024
- In todays adventures we do a good old fashioned nose job on this Mayhem.
@molotowpaint
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I'm a electrical estimator, surfer, and amateur shaper/repairer, so this question is close to my heart.
I would say forget what other people charge and charge what you need to charge.
Obviously you need to be charging material cost + overhead & profit mark up and then your hourly labor - if you don't know what your labor rate is I'd ask myself, how long did it take start to finish and how much do I believe my time is worth? Which leads me to my main point...
I would look at this from a opportunity cost perspective. If you have a minimum repair fee of $100 dollars, and you accept a job like this (obviously quite a bit more expensive and extensive), is the outcome/reward/margin of the job more or less than it would be if you had maybe easier jobs where your margin could be more significant and less time consuming? Obviously, an estimate/price has to be acceptable to the customer, but there is one thing I know and that is NOT ALL BUSINESS IS GOOD BUSINESS. You shouldn't be charging or estimating less because it MAY NOT be acceptable or because the market says they'll do it cheaper - you should be charging what makes sense to you and if someone isn't willing to pay, then on they go and you get back to your business. Your time is your greatest asset, so it all has to be worth it to you.
I will add, it is a bit of catch-22 that surfboards have been mass produced, because that obviously drives down new board prices, simultaneously making repairs appear costly - can we agree that most repairs would be roughly about an 1/8th of a new board purchase price, on average? Regardless, someone has to do the work, and that work isn't free - especially, if someone is very good at what they do.
I think it all depends on how in depth you want to look at it. Wish you all the best and thank you for another awesome vid! Let me know what you think.
Mate, you're bang on and I couldn't have said it better! It doesn't happen often but every now and then someone will comment on a repair price in comparison to the boards purchase price and I feel inclined to mention that I'm only one man, capable of doing a capped amount of work (both physically and available rack space) as opposed to the outfit that manufactured the board which more often than not is a huge factory in Thailand with massive production facilities and a large number of staff.
Certainly the mass production of boards has some bearing on repair prices and I only imagine that boards are going to get cheaper in the coming years, though I think theres a good argument to be made that surfboards are way to cheap, even the ''expensive'' ones.
Cheers for watching and I will definitely follow this video up with one on pricing, it seems to be quite the subject based on the comments on this video!
Wouldn't know where to start with charging. I shape boards for myself and mates for material cost and fix dings for the same amount or nothing if they're small. Was a fin maker and glasser/sander for a bit back in the 90's and ding repairs were expensive then. Time, tooling and the knowledge of how to do it is where the value is, not the material costs although you can't charge more than it would cost to replace the board . You do really nice work mate......kudos from Cornwall UK
You've hit the nail on the head with that. Charging for dings can be a difficult thing, as you say you're naturally capped at the value of the board which is likely quite low to begin with in the grand scheme of things. Should've been a panel beater 😂
Appreciate it man!!
Very nice repair, you do so well getting it even on both sides by eye, same with eyeballing the Surfski nose repair. Amazing eye for the shape.
I paid $100 AUD for a nose crease in 2021 that just needed the deck stripped back, filled and reglassed. I would gues at least $200 AUD for a full nose rebuild….maybe $250 for the paint to hide it. But yeah that board would not have fetched that on the Sydney resale market.
Nice repair work!
Cheers! Yea, there is definitely a big difference in prices of second hand boards over there, Hawaii too. Second hand boards were so cheap over there!
Im a surfer and super beginner repairer but not for money. I'd pay $250 to $300 for that repair. Looks epic
The Naki! You just got a great ding repairer move to your area, Jon at ding fixers! He's cheaper than me too 😂
Ding fixers well needed around here. So many rocks
Thank you once again for those videos and your time explaining the process and also the questions you are facing during the repairs ! As a surfer and as I also occasionnaly repair my own (small) dings, I would maybe expect something between 200 & 250eur ? without counting on any paint job. Non-professional guess! Cheers from France !
My pleasure, thanks for watching! The non professionals and customers opinion is really important, maybe more so than the professionals as it generally seems its the fear of appearing to overcharge that causes repairers to undercharge.
Nice job mate in my part of world the south west of WA, I'd charge $200 with no colour and $300 with the paint job. Cheers Bender
Yew, epic part of the world. I'm from Kangaroo Island originally and at times I miss that South and South West coast line so much.
Yes I've quoted repairs on cheap Chinese made sups for nose crease repairs and the customer says hey that's nearly what I paid for it new. If only they knew it's takes over an hour just to remove the full deck grip without destroying it.
@@bendechaneet1534 100%, and while you're taking that deck grip off and repairing that board, there are other jobs waiting in line and not being worked on. These things all need to be taken into account, especially with epoxies and their curing time/time taking up a rack
Great job as usual!
Mahalos!
I do repairs in Florida and i would probably charge $70USD for this repair and $20 for the paint job
So this one came to $250NZD which is roughly $150USD. Lots of variables of course, material costs, your location and nearby competition as well as your countries standard hourly fees for trades. I can tell you though that I charge $40NZD ($24USD) per hour for my time. I will do a video on my billing system in the very near future.
Great video. I don’t think take on a job like that. Too much pressure and the risk if it goes wrong you spent so much time on it. But if I did I’d charge $250. Thanks for the video, great information. Would love to know your pricing on other jobs
Certainly a risk with jobs like these. The repair should buy a couple more years of use at the minimum so hopefully all worth it for the customer in the long run!
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for watching!
Your work is awesome! In South Africa I'd not be surprised to pay R1000 (80 odd Aus Dollars) for that repair without the paint, but our starting price for a ding repair is R100 (8 Aus Dollars) - it doesn't really translate well from here 🙂
Currency is such a big part of it! I was talking to a guy over there last week who bought a dodgy pale of poly resin that wasn't acting right. Checked out his suppliers website and it was all pretty expensive and limited. Blows my mind that guys like MAT can churn out enough boards to justify ordering from overseas and still turn a profit!
I charge around $100usd for a nose redo like that locally. Its shit pricing when I sum all my expenses and time spent but pretty hard to price stuff properly here at my local considering that some even find $20 a ding too expensive 😅 so big YES to pricing reveal 🙌 helps out the landscape a lot. Probably be doing the same for my reels soon. Btw, wouldnt the paint under lam affect the adhesion of the lam in the long run?
Where abouts do you live? Although you're USD I have a feeling you're not in the states if memory serves me right?
$100 is a bargain, I've seen your work and I would certainly expect to pay more!
@@smallkinedings Philippines. Appreciate that remark coming from you!
great job! This looks great. I personally would sell an old board if its buckled or damaged like this (it is easy to get cheap used boards in Hawaii, $50-150). I fix all my dings unless its a fin box. I would pay $50-80 for a fin box repair (PU).
Also, I wanted to hear your opinion on fiberglass weave showing through. I am lazy with my personal repairs and don't care to make it perfect so i almost always have fiberglass weave showing through. How would this affect the strength of the repair? I personally have never had a structural issue and I surf solid waves (Oahu).
Man, I couldn't believe the prices of second hand boards over there, everytime I go it trips me out. Talk about a saturated market. I can't imagine trying to run my business on O'ahu or Maui! If I was smart I would ship 500 second hand boards over here from Hawaii and re sell them here, I think I'd still make quite the profit even with the exchange rate of the initial purchase!
I'm not convinced theres too much of a strength issue when it comes to exposed weave. In theory, if you're seeing weave then it's likely you've weakened the cloth a little by scraping it with sand paper, so maybe your 6oz patch now only has the strength of a 4oz patch. The bit that gets me though is that if that fibreglass is now weaker, adding additional resin on top of that isn't going to increase strength, it's just going to hide the blemish. It could be a bit more of an issue with epoxy as you've buzzed the cloth before your gloss coat already so buzzing it again will weaken it further but it seems to me that the only real way to make it stronger (not just hide it) is to add more cloth.
As long as there aren't any pin holes in the weave that lead to foam, I think it's more of an aesthetic issue than a strength one.
@@smallkinedings It is really unbelievable how cheap the boards can be here.
One thing I have noticed is while exploring the used board market is that al merrick boards never hold up. These used boards are always being sold with buckles and most of the snapped boards I see in trashcans up north are al merricks. I even see step ups from this company that were glassed as 'ultra light' or 'team light'.
I wish more people understood how al merrick cheaps out on glassing and is not transparent with the buyers (very environmentally unsustainable). On the other side of things, all the hawaiian shapers (tokoro, kashiwai, arkawa, minami, etc.) create stock boards with much more longevity and strength.
You probably have more knowledge about the stringer width and different glassing methods used by each company. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on this.
done a little ding repair on the side back in the day, not a pro by any means. I would expect this to be around $175-$200 USD
Not unreasonable, I'll have to give my answer in the next video!
Epic work as always, could you please let me know what Mirka random orbital sander you use? Also I'm on a budget and almost had a heart attack when pricing Mirka sanders.... What would a quality budget alternative be ? Cheers bro...
Hey hey! I’ve got the Mirka Deros. Not a cheap bit of kit that’s for sure! I dunno about any cheaper options I’d recommend. I’d say whatever you end up buying, go with the one that keeps your hand as close to what you’re sanding as possible. Some of them like the makita cordless are really tall and that makes it harder to be accurate with.
You could also look into air tools. The Mirka copies a design of a dynabrade sander with its low profile and palm throttle. Those sanders are much cheaper and VERY good tools but you need the air capacity to run them!
taking the pointyness out of the sharp end is a service to the eyeball. great work, minimum 150aud without paint - but i havent charged for dings for a long time, and it looks from the other comments that my guess of 150 should be higher.…. maybe thats what a consumer would ‘feel good about’ …...how many hours was it taking up space on the stands?- could that be part of the metric that calculates a job? stand time plus consumables
Time on the stands and racks is a big part of it. Stands are limited so if a small repair is taking time away from another job that will ultimately earn more money, that has to be taken into account. Especially with Epoxy as it has such a long drying time!
Stellar job!!! I would charge 150.00 USA 🇺🇸 bucks!
Thanks for watching! Will definitely make a video soon on the subject of pricing
Yeah, surfer who repairs my own boards quiet a lot. Just don’t do fin boxes. I’d pay 300 aud with pleasure for that job (Like you, don’t love the paint job the client asked for). I would have paid 700 aud easy for that lighting bolt board restoration, even 800 aud would have been reasonable. Put the job costs in your videos for sure.
Which Bolt, the red one or the yellow and orange one? That red one actually ended up as the most expensive job I've ever done, it was one where I was kinda nervous about sending the final bill!
Yeah the red board, with the yellow lighting bolt. You basically made a new board!
Going to fix up a creased nose on my step up - I might send a video across for you to critique. Be interested in feedback for sure (if you want to do another one of those videos that is)
that longboard looks just wrong painted. keep sanding with no mask.... it s worth it
You probably couldn't ride it anyway. Buy a good shop vac... it's worth it
Funny in a throw away society that people will spend a thousand or more on a new board (US) but quibble about a repair that is a fraction of that cost and save a favorite board. We humans are odd creatures aren't we? LOL!
Couldn't agree more!!
I would probably charge around 120$ USD without paint. I have to account for the fact that I’m sharing a workspace with a guy who lives 12 minutes from me each way. So I’m doing a lot of driving between lams and hot coats and waiting. I used to use UV resin to save a few trips but I was told to be careful as it may not be as strong. Either way I’m barely making gas and beer money.
You're not too far off my price but certainly enough to matter. I'll definitely make a video on this subject, pricing was and has been a hard one for me to work out too. 🤙
Great video, you are at one with that sander ! I notice that you blow that dust away with the compressor, would it not be better to run a vacuum over it ?
Love that sander, has become like a new limb to me! Depending on the surface, vacuum can work, just have to be careful with raw foam not to damage it with the vacuum hose. It would definitely be better for me though and I really should put my mask on when I blow boards down
Hi mate, Warren here from waihi NZ thanks for your help and guidance, you have been very helpful. Keen to know the costing of your repairs too please. Cheers 🍻
Yeew, great part of the country! My pleasure, shot for watching!
me too! keen to know about costings. done a full reno on a mates board here , painted and reglassed the whole bottom plus deck dings etc. keen to know what it would have cost him.. just a box of beers in my case!
All my boards now are either free damaged boards (or aud$50 or less) from people that can't be bothered repairing due to cost and they don't want them to go to landfill. I repair my boards and i definitly know the work that goes on these repairs. I'm not professional and i don't have all the tools and time. My repairs are cheap but functional.
Materials are not cheap, specially epoxy and paint and solvent to clean, qcells... And the most costly part is the time it takes.
Your repairs are great and you need to charge for repairs based on all that, and they are worth every cent yhat you charge.
But we need to consider location. Here in Australia, used boards can be very cheap, and in very good condition also, so sometimes difficult to justify paying $250aud for a repair like that for an old board, when you can get a good used board for the same money and probably a lot newer. Or even online, Find and Surfboard warehouse can get you a board for $200-400 brand new, nowadays.
In Europe, the boards are very expensive and everybody seem to want to recover the full cost of the board when selling second hand, so a repair there makes sense.
Materials over here are increasing very rapidly, its a bit of a concern!
Definitely a much cheaper second hand market over there, I noticed the same in Hawaii. Some of them were just about free they were so cheap!
Hi mate what sort of paint are you using that you can laminate over?
@@dimicreative6885 these are MOLOTOW acrylics 🤙
Likely $200 usd to repair that or what I think most would pay. Question: I’ve never repaired epoxy. Is there a different type of resin for laminating or sanding like with PU? 🤙🏼🍺
Not too far off at all taking exchange rates into account.
Just the one resin type for epoxy, though some people do add styrene or an additive F into their "hot" or gloss coats it's fundamentally not needed but can improve things a bit.
In my opinion repair like this should cost minimum 150usd
Definately 200usd for that I'd say. I have a repair that I'd love some feedback from you on. Let me know if you would entertain a Q&A on repair steps?
For sure man, people message me a tonne on instagram for that kind of stuff. Feel free to get in touch!
240 USD
£175
British Pounds? Good for you if so!
Wouldnt u charge by time and materials. It is what it is. Wrap up all your overheads in the hourly...so i dunno 80 nzd per hour or so including all the design time in there...faffing about and admin.
Bang on, I'm 40 an hour but you're correct. I've been pretty stunned to speak to other repairers who are either walking away with $2.50 per hour at the end of the job or in some cases, they technically wind up paying for the boards repair
@@smallkinedings totally fair pricing. I dont know your market well enough or you reasons for doing repairs...but there is a simple business growth formula which will increase income. Have existing customers return , increase what customers purchase by 10percent per yr and increase prices by 10 percent. Ive done this with products and services and eventually there is a price point reached..always higher than you think. And anyway im not aware of many repairers north of aucks. Sometimes we pull back... Thats business.
Yes, paying to work🙄😮💨. It was a similar scenario in my profession of fine woodwork and furniture making. I attribute a lot of it to my location at the time, but it rings true in many craftsman type trades especially if it's a job and not a hobby.