When Nahida told us our sibling is from* Teyvat and not a descender, literally minutes after showing us that memories and history of Teyvat can be altered, I just knew that statement couldn't be true. I thought, they must've been "merged" with Teyvat's history and now Irminsul recognized them as one of this world. But your video made so many more connections with Dain and heirs and the Sustainer, it's trully an incredible analysis, probably one of in not the best one out there
Right? We JUST manipulated information that went into Akasha and became their "truth." It was so strong the grand sage could no longer see the truth with his own eyes. Then we hear about someone who can just... censor parts of the world tree? Surely they are connected to our siblings sudden appearance in time.
My immediate thought after I've heard that our sibling HAS a recording in Teyvat's history is that their fate got interwoven with Teyvat's in such a way, that they'd virtually become Teyvat's citizen.
I think that traveller and his sis/bro are not related it's just that his/her sis/bro were born in tevyat then when she/he was small kid he/she meets the traveller
Teyvat’s books have been recording real history by disguising itself as fiction. The ones who have been writing those books figured out that irminsul doesn’t erase it or affect it if it’s fiction.
With Yae Miko spending so much time at the Sacred Sakura (where I presume she is reading the leylines), she's also the editor at the Yae Publishing House, which produces mainly fiction stories... I don't think it's a coincidence 👀 Another point to make is the fact that the abyss mage in Lisa's story quest was trying to steal a story book. Perhaps it was a real record of an event that's been erased from the leylines?
@@TairoruXRyuu Yeah, it's too big of a thing not to be relevant. Lisa zaps him into unconsciousness precisely when he's about to reveal its true contents. It can't be a coincidence.
Lisa being a scholar, I wonder if she knows. That's why she lets the Traveller keep the book. Maybe part of her shortened life has to do with learning knowledge of Irminsul?
@@tobyharris4777 IIRC, there's a strong theory that her shortened lifespan is a curse for learning too much about Celestia. Letting the Traveler keep the book, but not telling about its secret meaning, would be a way to keep the book safe from the Abyss, while at the same time shielding the Traveler from being cursed too. 🤔
We will know whether or not Dain is a Descender once we meet him again. If he still remembers Rukkha as the original Dendro archon, that means he is a Descender, otherwise is not. Descenders are not affected by changes in the information stored in Irminsul.
Or he might avoid bringing it up to hide the fact that he is. I think he has a timeline of when he decides to tell us things. It's frustrating though lol
Dain is probably not a descender. During scara's erasure and reborn as wanderer, he didn't narrated wanderer's miscellany (alice did it, and she is a descender) bcz he's probably afftected from the irminsul (idk what its called)
@@althearobles9061It's because he will give away his identity as a descender way earlier than we gamers should know. I am not saying his identity as a descender is 100% true. But if there is a possibility that he is the one then no way Hoyo Verse is going to drop a big hint about his true identity before the release of Celestia region. And Dain hates the original seven archons, but he still mentions in Nahida's Miscellany, that he has nothing bad to say about this young god (Nahida). This may hint that he knows Nahida is not one of the original seven archons.
Sadly one could expect they could pull multiple ret-cons now they `established` that this great tree of `history` can be altered to write out particular `impactful` story beats. Its more then likely setting up some additional arsepulls, such as how more then just `descenders` can ignore such revisions to history that would `alter` thar memories also. Maybe some particular Shnezayans who just play whistle blower on said changes to associates that did get affected. But thats the problem with theorizing on ends because the writers can easily see those and change up things to screw with even the theorists because they might `desire` to not let them call it, even years in advance for whatever plot they originally planned to stick with. Maybe if genshin speeds up its plot progression and pulls some surprise moments like having certain harbingers that have not appeared in game to appear way sooner then expected or we get to meet the Cyro archon in sumeru so they could do some direct or indirect questioning would be neat. Because i feel it taking another 3 years before what would likely be the `Season 1` of Genshin impact to be done with Shnezaya exploration and what not, is likely gonna be too long if the Plot does not make any SERIOUS progression on ends. And Cabbage forbid if they wait till then, before we get some REAL deep diving into the Khaneriya and Celestia story progression since they seen mostly allergic to the idea of having the archons coming together and atleast having a tea party of sorts to have a chat about the Traveler, thar `Sibling` that is leading the abyss and was present when Khanreiya was destroyed and could have Archons both present and ascended later could give some more fleshed out opinions on such things. Also i find it funny that Ai-chan now has a playable version of herself, had multiple stigmatas that had parodies of herself, weapons that were based on herself had already happened before we had anything besides vague story`beats happen for Paimon. Even Dragalia lost upgraded its fairy mascot into some powerful wind unit with a unique transformation in place of that `dragon transformation special move. Honestly im rambling a bit too much, but i swear i have too much fun doing replies then playing genshin anymore since they still have yet to make any `real` changes to its grind formula after 2 whole years and the story itself despite SOME revelations, is still stuck at Step Zero of any real progression that actually changes the status quo of the game.
@@BladeSerph I don't think they'll try to change the story based on Theorist Predictions. We litereally knew Scara was a Puppet before Yae Miko revealed it. All because the Info for that was already in the game Prior. Add the fact the devs are in China where they cannot access Non Chinese Sites like UA-cam. It's safe to safe they have little idea of the theories we are creating.
@@BladeSerph I really hope that they'll speed up the plot progression, because as it stands now, our travel to Fontaine will be a MASSIVE waste of time. Dainsleif said that the Hydro Archon would never judge Celestia, so we'll get absolutely no info about the past from her and she'll be like: "Thanks for saving my nation. Now f*ck off to Natlan." and the Fatui are gonna get her Gnosis with ease anyway. I hope that we'll get at least a playable Sandrone there...otherwise I just can't get hyped up by Fontaine...
@@Darthrath666 Man someone tapping a 2 month post lol, i have not had any interest in genshin besides the funny youtube videos and what not. With Honkai impact 3rd been getting all terribly boring with its story ever since elysia realm i have actually been wanting to try and get away from Miho-verse games in general. Hence why if 6.5. in Honkai impact 3rd does not really change the things in a interesting way, i will finally have my jump off point after 4+ years after 6.4. finally Genshin is clearly going for the long game for a slow as fk plot to ram in as many `side stories` as filler bacon. So i cant expect them to do jack-shite on the plot involving the abyss, the sibling, Dainsleif or so on. Best we can expect is another SHITE-take moment where they try to do some beeg surprise moment, which comes off as stupid and pointless since it does not really change the status quo in general. Since as a mobile game they can`t really pull any REAL plot moments like restricting out access to certain nations, granting a serious`ly useful traversal mechanic (without locking it behind gacha) or just straight up do any significant plot progression without it taking 3+ years so its watered down so much we can`t even care about said serious plot. Quite literally a mobile game plot that genshin at least seems to run with, is just a short-handed plot that likely could of been made up in a week and they just do any bare updates to it, likely tweaking it based on player feedback of the game to make it interesting, but keep it very open ended so they can change it super EZ but at the same time give zero fks on consistency. Cause if it was an actual plot, so many characters in monstadt, liyue and inazuma could of been brought in due to the background they have would tie them in as useful to help the plot rolling characters... But since its essentially a kingdom hearts plot-design, every single region is treated the same as a KH world so no characters from other worlds could be involved till the `main plot is over` and they are just brought in for mostly point-less side plots that matter jack shite... I mean, how many `The Stars Are Fake` said by Fan-Dan-Go boi moments have we gotten, except they actually matter to the plot and they didn`t need to Ret-con Fan-Dan-Go boi outta historical existence to avoid event specific inconsistencies in the future are gonna happen again?
one issue i have is the fact that Dain wasn't the one to voice Scara's trailer, Alice was. Scara is the only playable character that we know has been able to alter his place in the world. if this theory is true, than as the one in control of Irmansul, how would he forget Scara but Alice wouldn't? we also have to remember that the fact that there are four Descenders in the world was information gathered from the Fatui, a group that, whether we like it or not, are under the influence of Irmansul. likely there were 5, but Lumine was somehow added to the history of the world and in turn removed from the list of Descenders.
actually he probably isn't in control of the Irminsul he just has a strong connection with it, besides if he gets all his information from the Irminsul and the Irminsul does not have any information of Scaramouche anymore then he too would not know of Scaramouche
I've always thought the Gnostic Chorus was actually describing the story of sal vindagnyr. We know they actually did have a royal family. They lived atop a mountain, they had Celestia floating directly above them as show in the cutscene, and the princess saw visions of the future which lead for them searching the world for knowledge the gods wouldn't tell them. It seems to heavily follow the story of the Gnostic Chorus. Only thing is that this story ends different, but we now know history is unreliable and that poetry seems to actually maintain it's original meaning.
I agree, I think that the fact that the gender don't change if you choose lumine as protagonist and the dact that the princess is the crown heir while aether is cannonically older (which totally can happen but is kind of misleading) makes it more probable to not refer to the arther and lumine.
According to this theory, perhaps Imunlaukr is the Crown Prince? I know he's not native to Sal Vindagnyr but he has knowledge from it and was treated like a citizen. Idk I might have to brush up on my knowledge of him if this holds up.
@@MindBlinged I meant that the Gnostic Chorus doesn't change the gender of the crown heir when you choose lumine. If the crown heir were to be the sibling then in a run with lumine as the mc that doesn't make much sense.
What you explained here is very similar to that, what Otto Apocalypse did in Honkai Impact 3rd Chapter 28. He set a new branch with an alternate timeline on the Imaginary Tree, a tree that look exact the same that Irminsul. And we know that Genshin and Honkai are connected because they are both branches on the Imaginary Tree. The Imaginary Tree and Irminsul could be related to each other. What I want to say is, that this concept already exists in the Hoyoverse multiverse.
@@TeyvatHistoria Also Otto's existance was deleted in exchange for this new branch. The only thing that is different is that the people still remember him. EDIT: and the new timeline is in an alternate dimension so it has no effects on the real timeline. I think because he added a new branch and didn't deleted one like Nahida.
@@TeyvatHistoria I'm pretty sure this is a part of the Fatui's plot to free Teyvat from divine control, it's probably why Dottore will burn the Irminsul tree which should free the Abyss sibiling, no?
Wow! Totally makes sense. And then I got most intrigued from 16:35 onwards. Dainsleif, the mystery man. Always tracking and fighting the abyss order like it's nothing to be concerned about, but (I'm thinking) could be that he's actually restraining the abyss order from doing anything drastic or unprecedented at least until the traveler completes his journey and faces him. Basically keeping the abyss order from ruining his grand plan... Side note: We should tell Nahida about Dainsleif. Or at least she should consider if Irminsul may have been fed some wrong information...
I thought it was very obvious from the moment we "erased Rukkhadevata and her memories from the Irminsul" that some aspects of the Cataclysm would be erased too. If Rukkhadevata knew Missing Sibling, the records in the Irminsul would alter or "conceal" the memories connected to it. And I think the very reason that Irminsul HAD to alter Missing Sibling's records would be if forbidden knowledge that HAD o be erased was connected to the Missing Sibling too.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't nahida address the "heavenly principles" as though it was its own being? what if the woman at the beginning was just it's caretaker, thus... the "sustainer" of heavenly principles. Just a thought
Exactly… I’ve been searching for the comment for 20 mins now!! 😭 This is actually one of the points in this video that left me bugged here and there- Idk if this fact has any impact on this theory, but this is clearly worth mentioning
@@faithyap8003 nahh this is wrong, or the writers are messing up with the story. The unknown god referred to herself as the sustainer of heavenly principles, yet she’s also mentioned in game as being the heavenly principles itself.
@@Frosst When was she addressed as the heavenly principles itself? I always assumed that the primordial one is the heavenly principals, as he was the "first who came", making him the first descender.
I personally think that whatever the Heavenly Principles did to "banish" our abyss twin, tied them completely to Teyvat. She is the one who supposedly keeps the (fragile) balance of Teyvat, and I wouldn't put it past her to be able to instantly rework Irminsul's memories, in turn also rewriting the abyss twins too. But the theory that Dain could have been the one who did it its also very interesting. I feel like that could be such a neat twist! I also have a couple theories about the whole "descenders" thing. 1. If the "Teyvat is upside down" theory is real, is it possible that these descenders (previous to the twins) actually came from the abyss? The abyss is described as otherworldly all the time, as if its not actually part of Teyvat even though it is. I've always thought about how Dain could be considered a traitor to Khaenri'ah. Since we dont know exactly how he is one, what if the Sustainer was originally from the abyss, the first person to ever escape that chaos, and decided to suppress/destroy the Abyss completely. She could have been considered a traitor herself, written in Khaenri'ah's history as someone who abandoned them amidst the darkness. I also have a theory that she was Khaenri'ah's god before the nation was declared godless. So what if during the Khaenri'ah war, Dain somehow contacted the Sustainer and asked her to destroy their homeland and she obliged. Sending all the Archons to fight the abyss, and once that failed she herself probably stepped in. Of course, the Abyss can never be completely destroyed, at least not to our current knowledge, and I personally think that war sped up Teyvat's destruction. 2. This theory is my FAVORITE. Because I think, a lot of Teyvat's fairytales could actually be "lost" or "rewritten" history. The book from Lisa's story quest was mysteriously important to the Abyss Order for some reason because it held some unknown secret. And more recently during 2.8's GAA event, the story of Fishcl (the original, not our Amy), was also described as a descender in her world, bringing life to a dark part of the world before going mad herself. Of course in the GAA event, this was solved by Fishcl becoming self confident and accepting her flaws, but I found this story oddly similar to the Gnostic Hymn. This made me go bonkers when I rewatched some of the story from the event after the Archon Quest. Am i thinking too much into this? Who knows, im just here to have fun XD
I also think that Pierro is the one pulling all the strings here. Since it seems like he made sure Scaramouche knew that they had a common enemy by sending him in the Unreconciled Stars event before he eventually betrayed the Fatui once he had the gnosis. Pierro in fact, seems to be pulling all the strings on everything, rather than Dainsleif. But maybe Pierro is the older version of Dainsleif lol?
Showing us how truth could be altered through Iriminsul and then immediatelt giving us this info is no coincidence. And Nahida says that "someone" is obfuscating their fate, implying that whatever happened to them is intentional and ongoing. However Dainsleif's love and care towards the abyss sibling makes me think there is more to it than just planning to use them as a weapon.
What if the curse that Dainsleif has it's not immortality but reliving the same thing over and over? It goes with his constellation which it's Uroburos and that symbolizes a patron that keeps on going. He also tell us in the Chasm quest that his curse it's a little bit different from the hirichurl's have. Yeah, I know it's a bitt of stretch but a coincides very well with the Samsara festival, him incapable of go through the Irminsul himself and needing the sibling, and his constellation of Uroburos.
The Gnostic chorus could be a fairy tale like Nahida's tale about Scaramouche's path, which would explain the fantastical and inaccurate aspects of the chorus's story. It may have been left as a way to break the cycle, maybe it was Dainsleif himself that wrote the story, but we know that stories that hit the same beats as a backstory but are not exactly the same as the story get past the erasure of identities.
It would explain why our sibling wants us to experience the world without them interacting with us. If we are to make the final version of the world and our journey will be the blueprint them it must be as "pure" as possible. If the arcons know about this somehow then them interacting with us is in a way, a way to cement themselves in the final timeline and not be forgotten.
If Omni is confirmed to be one of the lost or “forbidden” elements later on, this means that, in the end, The Traveler’s last element will be the full realization of all the ones he’s learned throughout his journey “combined into one.”
Also, i think the Tsaritsa is also trying to achieve to combine the Gnoses and make the Omni Gnosis to have access to something. Maybe a god counsel in which normally the gods are doing to attend meetings in celestia
@@groundmeatier Imagine she tries to do that, but couldn't hold the power of the Gnosis. Eventually only the Traveler will be able to take it since it's his/her "natural" element.
What if Lumine died and was reborn on Teyvat? That could be why she isn't seen as a descender and her and Aether's memories are intact the way they are. She DID have 500 years before he awoke...what if she died early on and it took her a long time to be ABLE to wake up him? If she was dead for, lets say, 100 years? Then she did the whole journey thing. She was reborn in K'ahnrea and all the...everything...happened. The journey she and Dains mentions could easily be accounted for, her association with the abyss and as well as her ability to control abyssal energy and the ruin machines...Maybe she was looking for information before she woke Aether up to provide him with and everything just backfired. OR she got the information, told him, that's why they were trying to get away, she (maybe?) died from the boxes from the sustainer OR now has a separate hypostatis of her own somewhere akin to how the archons have...or maybe even the siblings being akin to a hypostatis to each other, which is why she told Aether he has to finish his journey before...I think she said he would understand? He may not have died because of the situation of how he got...boxed. Or maybe because it takes a lot of out the sustainer to box someone up and the second one just wasn't strong enough. Or his attack screwed something up with the boxing. These are all just loose random thought threads, but of everything that I've personally thought about combined with your video...Lumine could have died and been reborn and that could be an answer for almost everything (between the siblings) and possibly the 500 years, since it's obvious our journey isn't taking us nearly as long, yet we're essentially taking the same journey, or very similar, that she did. None of the current archons seem to know her other then Zhongli but he isn't ALLOWED to say anything about it, due to a contract. Anyway just my thought, I'm very interested in what you think about my crazy person rambling @teyvayhistoria
Teyvet Historia you never seem to disappoint us. Your analysis makes more sense since you are the only one who did it. Also the quality of your video is always spot on.
I'm 4min in and before I keep watching, I want to make a comment about my conclusion on the matter: As soon as I saw the myriads of changes Teyvat went through after GLR's branch was removed for Irminsul, I immediately thought to myself "that's so powerful! you can basically control everything through Irminsul". And then it dawned on me... You can control everything through Irminsul: every truth, every lie, knowledge, records, memories,... Absolutely everything. Like for example, the fact that we're not recorded in Irminsul but our sibling is. The one important thing I wasn't able to make any conclusion on is: why? I assume Irminsul is used by The Heavenly Principles to control Teyvat's population. But to what end? The Archon War which instantiated the Seven Archons had the same purpose. But again, why? What is the value in Teyvat's population for The Heavenly Principles? (actually the link between The Heavenly Principles and Celestia has never been made clear, but I assume they're related in some way). Also, it is theorized either the Primordial One or The Second Who Came *is* The Heavenly Principles, but how come we know about this story? Couldn't the records of Before Sun and Moon be altered just like with GLR? Or was the book already altered? If the Primordial One == The Heavenly Principles who we know from Nahida is likely a Descender, what about the Second Who Came? How come the Fatui's records don't mention them? Moreover, their names are incredibly vague. All this is definitely sus.
The reason why i think that the book before sun and moon couldnt be altered is that Enkanomia sunk , therefore outside of teyvat . Another reason to why that book isnt altered is that it got Orobashi killed for reading it , if it wasnt altered why kill him (sorry for the bad english).
That book must be safe from being rewritten, otherwise I don't see why the Abyss Order would want it. It contains a lot of fiction and myth too, which I'm pretty sure is what saves Pale Princess from being rewritten.
Sheesh this all make sense now, dainsleif title as the bough keeper may mean as an irminsul keeper, so he knows everything that happens in Teyvat. What sparks my interest is in 10:55, if Dainsleif is the narrator of all miscellanies since he is a Irminsul or Bough keeper, then Alice is higher than Dainsleif rank or power, since Alice have narrated Aloy’s miscellany (Aloy is also a descender) and Wanderer’s miscellany even if Scara have remove every memory about him.
I am confused. Dain is actually from Khaenri'ah, and the guard in the Chasm even recognized him as their captain... How could he even be a descender? And he is cursed too, just like everyone from Khaenri'ah. Lumine does not seem cursed btw, this is also an indicator, that she is definitely not from Khaenri'ah originally. And Heavenly principles is not a Queen of darkness?? What's dark about her? She's powerful for sure, but all she did she kind of arrested travellers for whatever mess our sibling got involved into before they so urgently tried to leave this world
we've been told Dain is from Khaenri'ah and we were told this from Lumine, that's shakey to trust, especially with how much Lumine has been messed with. He could have also spent time in Khaenri'ah, working as a knight during his journey which is why he feels so close to them and why they knew him so well, like the guard. We were told he was cursed with immortality by lumine but lets be real here. His curse is not "just like everyone from khaenri'ah". He is not a hilichurl or a creature of the abyss which are what "everyone" else from Khaenri'ah became. So the Dain stuff makes sense to me but what confuses me in this videos theory would be HP's motivation for trapping Lumine and Aether in this world? Surely, if this is the case, from her perspective, it would be better for her and the continuing cycles to allow any other descenders with power to leave Teyvat, rather than allow them to stay and interrupt the plan.
@@creatingpulsars9979 yeah, he's not a hilichurl and he's using something to stay sane. He wondered how that guard could still remember him without that 'thing'. He also mentioned that his body felt better in that upside down place in the Chasm, so it seems that his curse is still of similar nature. I am not saying he is not sus, but it seems a bit weird to see Dain as Susty's brother
@@creatingpulsars9979 That's the thing. Lumine likely was messed when we were escaping. The reason why they were trapped was to deny Lumine the Ability to get reinforcements from another world. The flower in Lumine head is a special flower that only turns to dust when it returns to Kheanriah and Symbolizes a Traveller longing for their homeland. Lumine already became loyal to Kheanriah. She had no intention to never return to Teyvat.
@@creatingpulsars9979 Kaeya is not a hilichurl or creature of the abyss either but we know he's from Khaenriah too. Pierro is also most likely but not confirmed to be from Khaenriah but he also still has his human form. There's something up with those three, but idk what.
It is still scary that you can change teyvat easily, of course, need a huge amount of power, but still. And oooooo!! A perceptive on Dain. Very interesting.
Here is my simple explination. When it was revealed two us that the sister somehow originated from Teyvat there are a few more factors in the same quest: 1. The recording of her starts after the fall of the civilization, which is weird as Aether seemed to have woken up in the middle of that happening for a moment, so the siblings were attacked before that. 2. Her existence suddenly has ended at some point, which makes no sense because we've MET her after that happened. 3. The questions is also centered around a puppet born of Teyvat with his own history, despite being artificial 4. The main antagonist is a guy who created different instances of himself. That Lumine that was recorded by the tree. An copy created of her on Teyvat. That's the most simple of solutions to take care of these issue
I really like your content not just for the stories you tell and the way you provide the lore, but it’s the way you read/talk, it’s so chilled I can just full relax and enjoy your content
The only holes in this theory is that Morax seems to remember that there are only 2 Original Archons left, We also don’t know who is the deceiver, Alice (Klee’s mother) seems to have found a 5th descender during 2.2 or could be one her self as she mentioned about work outside of Tevyat’s borders, and Alloy is still out there in teyvat somewhere
it reminds me of how otto apocalypse change the past. he woven his fate into the imaginary tree putting him in the past and deleting himself in the present
I agree on your theory and because of how much lore the Traveler has, it has made me main him from the beginning! I'm also looking forward for the continuation of the We Will Be Reunited quest!
I still want to know who is above the Sibling, because it is hinted that there is another higher one pulling the strings of the Abyss. Also, just a personal thing, but Aether is my Abyss "rival" (Lumine superiority!), so seeing you talk about only Lumine all the time as the Abyss sibling slightly rubs me the wrong way. :D
Your theory had a very strong start, the idea of someone ADDING new information to Irminsul is groundbreaking, and we know its possible, since Nahida herself theorises someone is meddling with the sibling's "fate". However, it derails around the time you start speaking of the descenders. You see, the "Sustainer of Heavenly Principles" (the unknown god) and the "Heavenly Principles" are NOT the same entity, you seem to be mixing the two. While we do not know for sure who or what exactly the "Heavenly Principles" are, the more accepted theory is that it is Phanes, the Primordial One, who is explicitly stated to have DESCENDED upon Teyvat from beyond. Hence: the 1st descender. The book also mentions that Phanes battles "the second who came", which is obviously the 2nd descender. The 3th is unknown and the 4th is the Traveller. If the unknown god was the Heavenly Principles itself, she wouldn't call herself the "Sustainer", she would just say she IS the Heavenly Principles. And no, I dont think she is a descender either, she is probably one of the four shades of the Primordial One.
Ah yes, one of the few people who doesn’t completely agree with the poster He jumps to a lot of conclusions, one of the ones that I hate the most is how he automatically assumes the sibling would forget you the moment they’re added to irminsul There’s no reason for us to assume they would forget us, and we can also clearly see that they DIDNT forget us. It’s a very weird theory once he gets further into it and confuses me anlot
Dain doesn’t seem to have any idea who Zhongli actually is in his miscellany trailer which would seem to fly in the face of the Irminsul keeper theory… unless of course the writers simply hadn’t thought that far ahead at the time…or Zhongli himself did something to the tree 🤔
It makes sense because when we talk about dain undergoing curruption is making irminsul undergo it too creating those zones which apparently nahida doesn't know the reason behind. And the new 3.4 inaccessible part on map in the center of desert and green sumeru seems to be the dain's branch
What i got from the entirety of sumeru, including the whole thing about segments and how big a deal was made out of them only for them to 'all' be gone is that: The sibling we meet in the abyss is a segment of the twin. When nahida helped the traveler look for info on their sibling it wouldve been with information the traveler had as reference point, so nahida ended up tracking info on the segment-twin (whom is of teyvat) and not the original-twin who is a descender.
We probably arrive around the destruction of Khaenri'ah before the heavenly principles rewrote the world, your twin being the one that gets sealed away in the cutscene first, seems to be taken for some sort of purpose considering the unknown god looks at us like were not needed and turns away from us, meaning we probably got sealed the same way but were discarded/forgotten left to eventually reawaken after our sibling had been rewritten into the world; by whatever happened during Khaenri'ah's fall. Supposedly we can assume that we were released from the seal as a result of the "Unknown god" no longer being present or alive and after 500 years and that their power that sealed us away had finally faded away, or perhaps it was Paimon had intentionally found us,, drifting in the seas eventually to wash up on Mondstats beach where using the last of their power to unseal us resulting in her loss all memories and power similar to Nahida and Guoba. If the unknown gods power was able to seal otherworldly powers away and whole beings its not a far reach to say that its power may be able to protect the information contained within from being altered thus making us immune to the heavenly principles rewriting the Tevyat during the what happened at Khaenri'ah's fall
Excellent theory! Very thought provoking! One question I have is how the Abyss fits into all of this? In the archon quest, Rukkhadevata said that the forbidden knowledge came from the bottom of the Abyss, and it was also mentioned that forbidden knowledge is not of this world. So doesn't that mean the Abyss is a descender?
Amazing video! loved it. Btw I think thats one of the reasons why they usually put Aether in the official videos, because like Dainsleif, he is the one who walked the journey (more canonically than Lumine). The flower on Lumine's hair also only works if its on her since Aether doesn't use any on his.
I fully agree with your theory! I cant see genshin introducing two more descenders that we dont already know, unless theyre planning to do something with pierro/another harbinger.
Since the We will be reunited, I have a feeling that Dain is brother to the Goddess and they're both mentioned in Gnostic Chorus. Back then I came up with idea she's corrupted and became the Sustainer of heavenly principles, just like some persons in Honkai becoming Herrschers. That's why, similarly to Gnostic Chorus finale, Dain wants to save his sister aka the Goddess while the Abyss is trying to dethrone any kind of gods including her. That's why he's enemy to the Abyss
i agree with most points here and i do really have a hunch that Dain has something to do with everything that happened especially the fact that our sibling is not considered/counted as a Descender like us.
I honestly don't know what to think anymore after Nahida's quest. Literally nothing can be trusted anymore. Memories, the sky, the entire world of Teyvat is full of lies and deception. Lumine and Aether are all likely under the influence of Celestia, manipulating them. To what extent is unknown, but I don't trust anyone now.
The Primordial One was really the first decender- since we know they existed and we still have records of them, then they have a branch in Irminsul also.
Dottore tells Nahida about siblings, maybe he personally entered Irminsul and changed information, he was shown in next to not without reason. I bet Pierro is aware of that since he lives over 500 years
hold on, the woman at the begining of the game is NOT the heavenly principles no? she was called the sustainer of heavenly principles. on top of that, isn't the primordial one (seemingly phanes at this point in the game) the first descender that usurped the seven sovereigns, not the heavenly principles? Unless they're both the same entity.
Guys After finishing the archon quest I think venti is one of the descenders. It's obvious he has the ability to time travel yet he doesn't forget like when he greatest good morning to the traveler.
Venti has a connection to Istaroth (the God of Time) so his possible time powers would come from there. And people are theorising that he's using ballads like how Nahida used fairy tales, to remember stuff.
I think that Dain is one of the heirs in the gnostic hymn but I don't think the sustainer is the first heir. I do, however, think that the first heir is queen of the abyss. In one of the recent trailers Lumine talks about Aethers quest however it's revealed that she ANSWERS to someone else that we don't know yet. She's also the princess of the abyss. If she were the leader, why not call her the queen? Because the queen is Dains sister, the first heir who believes herself to be the queen of darkness (the abyss). I also think that Alice is another descender. Usually Dain introduces characters in trailers but if he's connected to and in irminsuls "database", he wouldn't remember it but if Alice isn't in the tree.. then that could explain why she was in Scaranaras trailer. I think she's one of the recorded and known descenders in Teyvat and she very much seems to know a lot more than some characters. I do wonder though... since people can be added to the database... just how many more descenders exist but have just been added to the database so they don't register as not from this world anymore? Because if I'm counting correctly there's why more than just four that aren't from Teyvat, including the primordial one, the second throne of Celestia, possibly dain and his sister, Lumine and Aether and Alice!
believe 1st - the primordial one (paimon after loosing fight and powers to 2nd aka heavenly principles) 2nd - heavenly principles BUT she manipulated history to disguise herself as the first one who defeated the invaders which is the second onee aka she herself.. 3rd - Alice ( she is surely an outlander and most probably from earth, like aether,) 4th - Aether
@@josebaltoomarnilson4762 the game lore is not for 2 yo that it would be right in front of you, you gotta connect dots and analyze, also its about what is available at this point about the honkai universe and genshin universe, and some jumbled up speculatons from me, off course there won't hard evidence for everything,
I have a nice joke "teyvat it just a simulated universe created by kuru-kuru girl , and the descenders are people from real world that dive into the simulated universe
For what I understand from the chinese voice line is the irminsul tree is stained and becomes sickly. In order to stop the sickness to spread, they have chosen the purest branch (Kusanali) and regrowth it to replace the old tree (Rukkhadevata). This action is like an overwriting database. Rukkhadevata is like Kusanali Mother.
Great theory, but dainsleif as a descender is a bit strange because his eyes have a star shape to them, those from khaen'riah have star shaped eyes. So how can he be a descender???
Never occurred to me one could add a branch and I thought it was kind of hokey until you pointed out he’s literally called the bough keeper. What if he didn’t add one, but safeguards one that existed before that he also had removed? What if Lord Rukkhadevata wasn’t the original, instead replacing another like Nahida did?
after sumeru i will pay more attention to the lore, i just noticed that these changes in the lore when wanderer erased himself from history and i saw that shogun no longer had the dialogue about him i thought this detail was really cool.
Bro bringing up the lumine teaser was huuge, cause I always wondered why lumine seemed to have a flash of memories of aether as if shed forgotten him and aa love your theories as usual
The worst possible plot twist would be that there is no abyss sibling. Either the protag or the abyss sibling or both are literal puppets (like Wanderer) or imaginary created from messing with history. It would invalidate too much of the protag's personal backstory and is close to the writer plays with the emotions of the reader, which in my book, is not good storytelling.
I would like to add that Rukkadevata talks about the Samsara, on how she and Nahida are the same but in two different moment of the samsara, this only add, if not confirm, the cyclical nature of Tyevat. Samsara is in buddhism the cycle of rebirth of every beings, until the final illumination, stopping with the reach of Nirvana
This is my exact theory!! I had this a while ago, and I'm really glad you had the same idea of 'Celestia did something, and our sibling not being s descender is false'. I personally belive they did so to keep their power, since they've already screwed with FATE to (seemingly) make the travelers journey as deadly as possible.
I just had a really interesting idea before this video even started What if the forbidden knowledge related to the sibling (it existed before 500 years ago, so it cannot be said fully to just be knowledge of the traveller sibling), and they were rewritten into the main timeline when Rukkhadevata was deleted (and irminsul just punched the autocorrect in somehow)
What i thought at first was, what if OUR Lumine is already takeover the Celestia and the ABYSS Lumine is Alchemist Gold's product like Albedo? Now I have another doubt. What if Lumine herself intentionally planted this new memory in Irminsul?
I have a feeling that your theory helps explain the "her" Dain speaks of in official content as being the first descender, not Lumine. Choosing Lumine as one's traveler, I think, also helps clarify that the gnostic chorus is a parallel to the traveler twins' story rather than a 1:1
One detail that i have found bone-chilling is in Nahida's story quest that hints that we may have never had a sibling............. ( potential spoiler) We see our sibling ath the start of the dream, but Nahida only sees ONE shooting star. Not 2.
That's probably because Nahida being part of Teyvat sees the changed version of history. Just like she does not remember Rukha. Aether however remebers both Rukha and his sister being an outlander
I figured we saw our sibling due to the effects of the dream, and that was an illusion like in the beginning of Sumeru. I also assumed the star would be a hint of Rukkhadevata or something
@@Dizzykathie is more than plausable explanation, but if we add the detail that literally no one remembers meeting the sibling, except the Aranara, makes me wonder. Yes, we met Abyss sibling once, before history has been re written. I find it strange.
A very terrible retcon if it were to be the case, would be very dumb if the sibling was never real I don't think the traveler is that gullible to be manipulated into having to deal with all the bs like traveling the entire teyvat just to be told that their sibling never existed in the first place
They've travelled together through different worlds before getting stuck into teyvat though. And as we saw, the traveller's memory cannot be altered through the irminsul so what they remember is true.
After playing the Archon quest and Scaramouche saying that Lumine only came because the heavens responded to the summoning your theory kinda makes sense I think Lumine was the reason Khaneri ah got destroyed all along she is the power that Khaneri ah needed to challenge the gods of celestia
Wait but doesn't Dainsleif still want to free the Sustainer? Now that both of them have connection some of his dialogue maybe interpreted as freeing the Sustainer too, just like Aether wants to rescue Lumine?
im almost certain lumine is counted as a native to teyvat because of rukkadehvatas reality reset when she created nahida. further, think you may have misunderstood some of her dialogue in her quests.
@teyvathistoria I thought the same thing at the end of the archon quest especially since irminsul was corrupted it would have been easy to plant a memory..what if the traveler realizes dainsleif plan Sooner than later and ruin his plan? What if the traveler finds a way to remove the branch from the tree and alter dainsleif objective for deceiving lumine in the first place?
From the new 3.5 archon quest it says how pure blood khaenri’ahs got the curse of immortality instead of truing into monsters and since dainslef got the curse of immortality proves that he is from this world, also if dain was one of the descenders then there would be no more spots left for the sibling to be a descender since the heavenly principles aren’t the first descenders, in a book in enkonomiya it says that phanes, the primordial one was the first descender and how the heavenly principles was the second and they overthrew phanes and his 4 shades and no one currently alive knows this because anyone who finds the book and reads it dies like what happened with the big snake that got killed by ei. Also Nahida says how her saying the heavenly principles is the first descender is only a hypothesis. So according to this information if the sibling was a descender then the correct order of the descenders would be, phanes, the heavenly principles, travelers sibling, traveler.
That's definitely an interesting theory which explains a lot of things but I don't think it's all that simple. If just adding a branch to Irminsul was enough to strip our sibling of the Descender status then removing the hypothetical branch should make a new Descender. But that's exactly what happened to Nahida and she isn't considered one so I believe there's more to it.
Just like removing Rukkhadevata from Irminsul had no effect on Traveler's memory, there's no reason why implanting memory of the sibling into it should have any effect on memory of either of the siblings. There's no doubt it would lead to creation of Teyvat version of the sibling but that would be just a copy, a "puppet" following whatever the Irminsul memory has written in it for them. Yes the genuine sibling is a descender but that's not the sibling we're meeting in the story. We have no information about where the genuine sibling is and perhaps it has its own copy of Teyvat and experiences the same story we do through their eyes.
Now that I think about it, what if the gnostic chorus is actually an encrypted story like to what nahida used to keep scaramouches past in the rewritten history?
So boughkeeper Dainsleif spliced our sibling's fate into to World Tree, making her indistinguishable as an Outworlder. This was to lock the both of us to the fate of Teyvat and ensure that if we wanted to save our sibling, we'd have to save the world too since they had run out of options already. Amazing theory and it finally gives a more solid connection
I'm curious. I do think there is A LOT of merit to this theory, but what about the Primordial One and the Second Who Came? Technically the unknown God called herself the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles. We don't know for sure that that MAKES her the Heavenly Principles. We also don't know for sure that HP is the first descender, just that is what Buer is assuming. The Primordial One according to lore was the one who first came to this world from another, defeated the seven dragon'-lords. Then there was the 'Second Who Came'. Couldn't these be the first two descenders? Also who's to say there's only 4? We were told we were named named the fourth by the Fatui. Not that we were the fourth and last. Also, who knows how much of the fatui intel is real or not? And none of this touches on the sky being fake. Anything in the tree and leylines can now be questioned and doubted.... ugh..... I love genshin Lore but I still feel like we have no real answers other than we have a sibling who was separated from us for an unknown reason by an unknown god and they may or may not be up to no good now. I've decided the big answer is that Teyvat.... is.... a videogame. First descender, Hoyoverse. Second descender, Yu-Peng Chen, Third Descender, Dain's voice actor as the narrator and the Fourth Descender is the traveller because it's us.... the players. ... although legit, if we finally get to the true endgame and the answer is something along the lines of "its a videogame" I will be pissed lol
I can't remember which content creator came up with this Theory, but it went along the lines if there are Descenders then maybe it's possible of Ascenders? And there is speculation that Celestia was originally created on Teyvat before rising up into the sky; similarly like Ningguang's Jade Chamber. And that the Second who came to start the war was actually from Teyvat ascending and overthrowing the Primordial after they became advanced enough to do so. Which implies that the Primordial one's faction was betrayed by a faction from within, according to the theory. When you look at the ancient technology of King Deshret and that he was friends with a Seele, there then is a chance of creditability here. I mean if Irminsul can even rewrite memories, than the person or faction that owns it is all powerful. They wouldn't even need to be all that powerful if all you needed was that mechanism. Once you have access, you would then have god-like powers.
Before all this though, one question I want addressed is that, what about the "Before Sun and Moon" book? I have never read the book personally but those who have did tell me that there were other Descenders in Teyvat. And that they have told me that it was the Primordial One being the First Descender and the Second Throne for the 2nd Descender. What made me confused in all of these theory halfway into the video is that, I don't understand why are we referring to the Unknown God as the "Heavenly Principles". She has clearly referred to herself as the "SUSTAINER" of Heavenly Principles. I don't think they are the same person (or God, in this case). So, before all this, I was led to believe that the Three other Descenders before our Traveler was: First: Primordial One Second: The Second Throne Third: ????? Fourth: Our Traveler (or perhaps, also including the Abyss Sibling, because its already weird she isn't a Descender). I think it would be better to address this first and solidify who were the three other Descenders before the Traveler because I think this theory maybe a bit confusing. Also, I am in the camp that sorta disagrees that Dainsleif is a Descender, it kind of don't make sense when his Curse of Immortality (albeit not being the same curse as the Khaenri'ahn people being Hilichurls) is of Teyvat or maybe perhaps inflicted to him by Celestia(?).
Because traveler sisters corpse is turned into the gnosis by the heavenly principle, and the existing travellers sister is likely to be a being born out of memories of the orginal travelers sister, well we all know the gnosis are made out of third decenders corpse.
We aren’t 100% sure that the sibling would be the third- I do like your theory though, it’s one I’ve been considering for a bit as I do NOT agree with this guys video, he randomly jumped to a lot of conclusions
The problem with your theory (which I'd expect others have already pointed out), is that the first heir in the Gnostic Chorus is associated with the Abyss which fits for Lumine but not for the Unknown God. I think Mihoyo isn't making it as hard as all that, and it's pretty clear who all the descenders are based on their shared character design elements. A lot of people point to Paimon having a similar motif as the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles, but this is the same stellar/sidereal motif as the twins and Dainsleif as well. So the four would be the Heavenly Principles, Paimon, Dain (who filled a similar role for the sibling as Paimon does for the MC), and the MC, with the sibling being scrubbed from the ranks in a fashion similar to what you describe.
My theory is that the cutscene is meaningless. It's just Venti telling what he knows of our story as a fictional tale like he does with everything, so it doesn't ever get wiped from Irmunsul. Hence why it's our journey, our tale to be told. We might be looking too much into this cutscene, but I really like your version
(this might be a half-baked theory) from every region we've learned much about the world, Sumeru taught us about Knowledge and where every information and memories of Teyvat is stored but i dont think they told us how Irminsul gets it's information. im pretty sure that Fontaine will tell us this because Fontaine is the city of Judgement, Laws & consequences. they might not only teach us about Laws of the city but the Laws of the world, what i mean is for a perfect example of a Law is the Law of Causality, which would fit well with Irminsul. this Law would be in a similar form as Irminsul right, and where does a tree gets some of it's nutrients, from Water, the Form of Causality is most likely a Sea/ocean. Law of causality effects many things but mostly effects Timelines and adding & removing something like a person or information from a timeline will cause a ripple effect within the timeline, effecting everything within the world, like information that Irminsul has. what gave me this theory is this part here 10:09, where raiden drops the seed into what i would think is the Sea of Causality/Time or whatever it might be, causing a ripple effect and showing that something has changed within the timeline.
My biggest problem with this entire erasure situation is the same problem with the sumeru sages story of if one situation didn’t exist what was the point of the main story. In the case of scaramouche him erasing himself makes the entire second half of the inazuma story quest all over the place because the electro gnosis has no reason to have been in sumeru in the first place and la signora death doesn’t add up because she died directly because of scaramouche actions Hell I’d argue the traveler shouldn’t be alive because the yae explicitly went to the delusion factory for scaramouche so honestly I just find the idea incredibly convoluted with trying to not just go the extra mile and undo events that happened if you take certain characters out of the equation
The strongest theory I've seen about Aether and Lumine that holds weight! .. Though, I think what you've said about Dains is interesting and plausible, there is another that could be considered a Descender.. Alice, Klee's mother and she has given influence to certain individuals, from the top of my head.. She gave Barbara the idea of being an idol and given her a book from another world, a certain boy in Inazuma that you play hide'n'seek with a ball - that mind you is made from a bomb, she has had certain dealings with Dori from Sumeru.. Less we forget that on rare occasions Alice or Dains narrative a character trailer. Food for thought~.
I don’t think it’s quite strong, he’s had a lot of holes in this theory, let me bring up my favorite! He jumped to the conclusion the sibling would forget the traveller the moment they were added to the irminsul, which is clearly not shown or supported
its definitely beyond undeniable that lumine is a descender. but the interlude quest with scara kinda confirms that one of the "4" is the jester. so we have 1 unaccounted for. and since the CURRENT timeline of teyvat doesn't include lumine in that category, theres clearly some very interesting things happening in teyvat lore D: ive got a mini theory that its alice, but i dont really have any evidence to back that up. but it WOULD make alot of sense if it was her. lowkey wish i had a time machine to go forward in time just to consume all the future genshin lore 😅
I’d say that The Heavenly principles isn’t the Sustainer, as the sustainer is called Asmoday which is Asmodeus. Unless That identity was forced in it would be weird if a descender was apart of a line of gods named after the ars goetia
When I was the battle pass cutscene I had a feeling that the story was somehow portraying the travelers story and I've seen some other theory videos too and my current theory/opinion is that there is a light element and a darkness element which the siblings orignally had the light element as their powers. Smth about ambition and all the elements can be activated thru the light element and the darkness element. Negative ambition like seeking for revenge can be smth to do with the darkness element and the same thing with positivity and the light element. Lumine has gotten access to the darkness element thru her journey and now thinks she belongs to this world bc of like said in this video and the battle pass cutscene. Both siblings have a goal for smth which they have an ambition for, Aether's goal is to reunite with Lumine and his ambition is positive and smth to do with saving others just like how he wants to save his sister. Lumine's is unknown but it's negative like it could be revenge cuz of the thing with her getting access to the darkness element. Also, in the battle pass cutscene it says "But she was decieved, and the memory of her noble origins faded". This supports the theory in this video about the branch being added and changing Lumine's memory. Im too lazy to continue typing a whole paragraph rn but u get the idea. 🙃 Also realized one of the other videos I watched was from this channel too lol
When Nahida told us our sibling is from* Teyvat and not a descender, literally minutes after showing us that memories and history of Teyvat can be altered, I just knew that statement couldn't be true. I thought, they must've been "merged" with Teyvat's history and now Irminsul recognized them as one of this world. But your video made so many more connections with Dain and heirs and the Sustainer, it's trully an incredible analysis, probably one of in not the best one out there
She saied that our sibling just randomly poped up in khaenri'ah
Right? We JUST manipulated information that went into Akasha and became their "truth." It was so strong the grand sage could no longer see the truth with his own eyes. Then we hear about someone who can just... censor parts of the world tree? Surely they are connected to our siblings sudden appearance in time.
That information come from Dottore, not the irminsul
@@JfashionEnjoyer evryone fergetts that part lamo
On another channel it is mentioned that after Rukkhadevata finally was forgotten by the word, even physical media like scrolls and books were altered.
My immediate thought after I've heard that our sibling HAS a recording in Teyvat's history is that their fate got interwoven with Teyvat's in such a way, that they'd virtually become Teyvat's citizen.
More like "interwinde fate"
@@salimyaq9296 wow... that makes so much sense
I think that traveller and his sis/bro are not related it's just that his/her sis/bro were born in tevyat then when she/he was small kid he/she meets the traveller
@@Aetherakabanesorry to burst your bubble but that doesn’t make sense at all
@@Aetherakabane that doesnt make sense since they been multiple world together
Teyvat’s books have been recording real history by disguising itself as fiction. The ones who have been writing those books figured out that irminsul doesn’t erase it or affect it if it’s fiction.
With Yae Miko spending so much time at the Sacred Sakura (where I presume she is reading the leylines), she's also the editor at the Yae Publishing House, which produces mainly fiction stories... I don't think it's a coincidence 👀
Another point to make is the fact that the abyss mage in Lisa's story quest was trying to steal a story book. Perhaps it was a real record of an event that's been erased from the leylines?
@@TairoruXRyuu Yeah, it's too big of a thing not to be relevant. Lisa zaps him into unconsciousness precisely when he's about to reveal its true contents. It can't be a coincidence.
@@TairoruXRyuu This is very true. Which might be why she was so willing to trade the gnosis to Scaramouche for the Traveler’s life.
Lisa being a scholar, I wonder if she knows. That's why she lets the Traveller keep the book. Maybe part of her shortened life has to do with learning knowledge of Irminsul?
@@tobyharris4777 IIRC, there's a strong theory that her shortened lifespan is a curse for learning too much about Celestia. Letting the Traveler keep the book, but not telling about its secret meaning, would be a way to keep the book safe from the Abyss, while at the same time shielding the Traveler from being cursed too. 🤔
We will know whether or not Dain is a Descender once we meet him again. If he still remembers Rukkha as the original Dendro archon, that means he is a Descender, otherwise is not.
Descenders are not affected by changes in the information stored in Irminsul.
Or he might avoid bringing it up to hide the fact that he is. I think he has a timeline of when he decides to tell us things. It's frustrating though lol
@@PixelMochi yeah he didn’t bring it up at all in Caribert.
Dain is probably not a descender. During scara's erasure and reborn as wanderer, he didn't narrated wanderer's miscellany (alice did it, and she is a descender) bcz he's probably afftected from the irminsul (idk what its called)
I'm late to this, but didn't the quest with the "sinner" confirm Dain is a pure khanryan(is that how you spell it?)?
@@althearobles9061It's because he will give away his identity as a descender way earlier than we gamers should know.
I am not saying his identity as a descender is 100% true. But if there is a possibility that he is the one then no way Hoyo Verse is going to drop a big hint about his true identity before the release of Celestia region.
And Dain hates the original seven archons, but he still mentions in Nahida's Miscellany, that he has nothing bad to say about this young god (Nahida). This may hint that he knows Nahida is not one of the original seven archons.
So basically, it could be that our sibling became the leader of the Abyss through manipulation of Irminsul? That's interesting and I agree.
Sadly one could expect they could pull multiple ret-cons now they `established` that this great tree of `history` can be altered to write out particular `impactful` story beats. Its more then likely setting up some additional arsepulls, such as how more then just `descenders` can ignore such revisions to history that would `alter` thar memories also. Maybe some particular Shnezayans who just play whistle blower on said changes to associates that did get affected.
But thats the problem with theorizing on ends because the writers can easily see those and change up things to screw with even the theorists because they might `desire` to not let them call it, even years in advance for whatever plot they originally planned to stick with.
Maybe if genshin speeds up its plot progression and pulls some surprise moments like having certain harbingers that have not appeared in game to appear way sooner then expected or we get to meet the Cyro archon in sumeru so they could do some direct or indirect questioning would be neat. Because i feel it taking another 3 years before what would likely be the `Season 1` of Genshin impact to be done with Shnezaya exploration and what not, is likely gonna be too long if the Plot does not make any SERIOUS progression on ends.
And Cabbage forbid if they wait till then, before we get some REAL deep diving into the Khaneriya and Celestia story progression since they seen mostly allergic to the idea of having the archons coming together and atleast having a tea party of sorts to have a chat about the Traveler, thar `Sibling` that is leading the abyss and was present when Khanreiya was destroyed and could have Archons both present and ascended later could give some more fleshed out opinions on such things.
Also i find it funny that Ai-chan now has a playable version of herself, had multiple stigmatas that had parodies of herself, weapons that were based on herself had already happened before we had anything besides vague story`beats happen for Paimon.
Even Dragalia lost upgraded its fairy mascot into some powerful wind unit with a unique transformation in place of that `dragon transformation special move. Honestly im rambling a bit too much, but i swear i have too much fun doing replies then playing genshin anymore since they still have yet to make any `real` changes to its grind formula after 2 whole years and the story itself despite SOME revelations, is still stuck at Step Zero of any real progression that actually changes the status quo of the game.
@@BladeSerph I don't think they'll try to change the story based on Theorist Predictions. We litereally knew Scara was a Puppet before Yae Miko revealed it. All because the Info for that was already in the game Prior.
Add the fact the devs are in China where they cannot access Non Chinese Sites like UA-cam. It's safe to safe they have little idea of the theories we are creating.
@@BladeSerph I really hope that they'll speed up the plot progression, because as it stands now, our travel to Fontaine will be a MASSIVE waste of time.
Dainsleif said that the Hydro Archon would never judge Celestia, so we'll get absolutely no info about the past from her and she'll be like: "Thanks for saving my nation. Now f*ck off to Natlan." and the Fatui are gonna get her Gnosis with ease anyway. I hope that we'll get at least a playable Sandrone there...otherwise I just can't get hyped up by Fontaine...
@@Darthrath666 Man someone tapping a 2 month post lol, i have not had any interest in genshin besides the funny youtube videos and what not.
With Honkai impact 3rd been getting all terribly boring with its story ever since elysia realm i have actually been wanting to try and get away from Miho-verse games in general. Hence why if 6.5. in Honkai impact 3rd does not really change the things in a interesting way, i will finally have my jump off point after 4+ years after 6.4. finally
Genshin is clearly going for the long game for a slow as fk plot to ram in as many `side stories` as filler bacon. So i cant expect them to do jack-shite on the plot involving the abyss, the sibling, Dainsleif or so on.
Best we can expect is another SHITE-take moment where they try to do some beeg surprise moment, which comes off as stupid and pointless since it does not really change the status quo in general. Since as a mobile game they can`t really pull any REAL plot moments like restricting out access to certain nations, granting a serious`ly useful traversal mechanic (without locking it behind gacha) or just straight up do any significant plot progression without it taking 3+ years so its watered down so much we can`t even care about said serious plot.
Quite literally a mobile game plot that genshin at least seems to run with, is just a short-handed plot that likely could of been made up in a week and they just do any bare updates to it, likely tweaking it based on player feedback of the game to make it interesting, but keep it very open ended so they can change it super EZ but at the same time give zero fks on consistency.
Cause if it was an actual plot, so many characters in monstadt, liyue and inazuma could of been brought in due to the background they have would tie them in as useful to help the plot rolling characters...
But since its essentially a kingdom hearts plot-design, every single region is treated the same as a KH world so no characters from other worlds could be involved till the `main plot is over` and they are just brought in for mostly point-less side plots that matter jack shite...
I mean, how many `The Stars Are Fake` said by Fan-Dan-Go boi moments have we gotten, except they actually matter to the plot and they didn`t need to Ret-con Fan-Dan-Go boi outta historical existence to avoid event specific inconsistencies in the future are gonna happen again?
@@BladeSerphain't reading all that. sorry that happened to you though or something
one issue i have is the fact that Dain wasn't the one to voice Scara's trailer, Alice was. Scara is the only playable character that we know has been able to alter his place in the world. if this theory is true, than as the one in control of Irmansul, how would he forget Scara but Alice wouldn't? we also have to remember that the fact that there are four Descenders in the world was information gathered from the Fatui, a group that, whether we like it or not, are under the influence of Irmansul. likely there were 5, but Lumine was somehow added to the history of the world and in turn removed from the list of Descenders.
actually he probably isn't in control of the Irminsul he just has a strong connection with it, besides if he gets all his information from the Irminsul and the Irminsul does not have any information of Scaramouche anymore then he too would not know of Scaramouche
I've always thought the Gnostic Chorus was actually describing the story of sal vindagnyr. We know they actually did have a royal family. They lived atop a mountain, they had Celestia floating directly above them as show in the cutscene, and the princess saw visions of the future which lead for them searching the world for knowledge the gods wouldn't tell them. It seems to heavily follow the story of the Gnostic Chorus. Only thing is that this story ends different, but we now know history is unreliable and that poetry seems to actually maintain it's original meaning.
I agree, I think that the fact that the gender don't change if you choose lumine as protagonist and the dact that the princess is the crown heir while aether is cannonically older (which totally can happen but is kind of misleading) makes it more probable to not refer to the arther and lumine.
According to this theory, perhaps Imunlaukr is the Crown Prince? I know he's not native to Sal Vindagnyr but he has knowledge from it and was treated like a citizen. Idk I might have to brush up on my knowledge of him if this holds up.
@@anibalesquiembre6699 It does though. They refer to the traveler as she when for Lumine
@@MindBlinged I meant that the Gnostic Chorus doesn't change the gender of the crown heir when you choose lumine. If the crown heir were to be the sibling then in a run with lumine as the mc that doesn't make much sense.
What you explained here is very similar to that, what Otto Apocalypse did in Honkai Impact 3rd Chapter 28. He set a new branch with an alternate timeline on the Imaginary Tree, a tree that look exact the same that Irminsul. And we know that Genshin and Honkai are connected because they are both branches on the Imaginary Tree. The Imaginary Tree and Irminsul could be related to each other.
What I want to say is, that this concept already exists in the Hoyoverse multiverse.
I didn’t know that! Good to know heh.
@@TeyvatHistoria Also Otto's existance was deleted in exchange for this new branch.
The only thing that is different is that the people still remember him.
EDIT: and the new timeline is in an alternate dimension so it has no effects on the real timeline.
I think because he added a new branch and didn't deleted one like Nahida.
@@TeyvatHistoria I'm pretty sure this is a part of the Fatui's plot to free Teyvat from divine control, it's probably why Dottore will burn the Irminsul tree which should free the Abyss sibiling, no?
honkai story is too complicated
@@mahd1dz need some time to understand. they like to play around with Quantum physics, philosophy and mythology.
Wow! Totally makes sense. And then I got most intrigued from 16:35 onwards. Dainsleif, the mystery man. Always tracking and fighting the abyss order like it's nothing to be concerned about, but (I'm thinking) could be that he's actually restraining the abyss order from doing anything drastic or unprecedented at least until the traveler completes his journey and faces him. Basically keeping the abyss order from ruining his grand plan...
Side note: We should tell Nahida about Dainsleif. Or at least she should consider if Irminsul may have been fed some wrong information...
I thought it was very obvious from the moment we "erased Rukkhadevata and her memories from the Irminsul" that some aspects of the Cataclysm would be erased too. If Rukkhadevata knew Missing Sibling, the records in the Irminsul would alter or "conceal" the memories connected to it. And I think the very reason that Irminsul HAD to alter Missing Sibling's records would be if forbidden knowledge that HAD o be erased was connected to the Missing Sibling too.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't nahida address the "heavenly principles" as though it was its own being? what if the woman at the beginning was just it's caretaker, thus... the "sustainer" of heavenly principles. Just a thought
My thoughts exactly! The unknown god is NOT the heavenly principles.
Exactly… I’ve been searching for the comment for 20 mins now!! 😭 This is actually one of the points in this video that left me bugged here and there- Idk if this fact has any impact on this theory, but this is clearly worth mentioning
@@faithyap8003 nahh this is wrong, or the writers are messing up with the story. The unknown god referred to herself as the sustainer of heavenly principles, yet she’s also mentioned in game as being the heavenly principles itself.
@@Frosst When was she addressed as the heavenly principles itself? I always assumed that the primordial one is the heavenly principals, as he was the "first who came", making him the first descender.
Body guard of the 2nd descender, the usurper.
I personally think that whatever the Heavenly Principles did to "banish" our abyss twin, tied them completely to Teyvat. She is the one who supposedly keeps the (fragile) balance of Teyvat, and I wouldn't put it past her to be able to instantly rework Irminsul's memories, in turn also rewriting the abyss twins too. But the theory that Dain could have been the one who did it its also very interesting. I feel like that could be such a neat twist! I also have a couple theories about the whole "descenders" thing.
1. If the "Teyvat is upside down" theory is real, is it possible that these descenders (previous to the twins) actually came from the abyss? The abyss is described as otherworldly all the time, as if its not actually part of Teyvat even though it is. I've always thought about how Dain could be considered a traitor to Khaenri'ah. Since we dont know exactly how he is one, what if the Sustainer was originally from the abyss, the first person to ever escape that chaos, and decided to suppress/destroy the Abyss completely. She could have been considered a traitor herself, written in Khaenri'ah's history as someone who abandoned them amidst the darkness. I also have a theory that she was Khaenri'ah's god before the nation was declared godless. So what if during the Khaenri'ah war, Dain somehow contacted the Sustainer and asked her to destroy their homeland and she obliged. Sending all the Archons to fight the abyss, and once that failed she herself probably stepped in. Of course, the Abyss can never be completely destroyed, at least not to our current knowledge, and I personally think that war sped up Teyvat's destruction.
2. This theory is my FAVORITE. Because I think, a lot of Teyvat's fairytales could actually be "lost" or "rewritten" history. The book from Lisa's story quest was mysteriously important to the Abyss Order for some reason because it held some unknown secret. And more recently during 2.8's GAA event, the story of Fishcl (the original, not our Amy), was also described as a descender in her world, bringing life to a dark part of the world before going mad herself. Of course in the GAA event, this was solved by Fishcl becoming self confident and accepting her flaws, but I found this story oddly similar to the Gnostic Hymn. This made me go bonkers when I rewatched some of the story from the event after the Archon Quest.
Am i thinking too much into this? Who knows, im just here to have fun XD
Good theory
I’ll come back once we know the truth
I LITERALLY WAS JUST LOOKING FOR A VIDEO LIKE THIS AND THINKING OH IF ONLY TEYVAT HISTORIA WOULD DO ONE YEEEEEEES
I also have the same thought xd
I also think that Pierro is the one pulling all the strings here. Since it seems like he made sure Scaramouche knew that they had a common enemy by sending him in the Unreconciled Stars event before he eventually betrayed the Fatui once he had the gnosis.
Pierro in fact, seems to be pulling all the strings on everything, rather than Dainsleif. But maybe Pierro is the older version of Dainsleif lol?
Pierro is maybe the sage who tried to warn the Khaenr'ian royal family who nobody bothered to listen to. It's a theory I saw.
@@cherryleafy101 It’s not a theory. It’s true. But Pierro was also the one who sent Nathan to prolong the war in Inazuma.
@@Zarozian where is confirmation for this?
@@josebaltoomarnilson4762 it's in the world quest "clean house" check it out
Showing us how truth could be altered through Iriminsul and then immediatelt giving us this info is no coincidence. And Nahida says that "someone" is obfuscating their fate, implying that whatever happened to them is intentional and ongoing. However Dainsleif's love and care towards the abyss sibling makes me think there is more to it than just planning to use them as a weapon.
What if the curse that Dainsleif has it's not immortality but reliving the same thing over and over? It goes with his constellation which it's Uroburos and that symbolizes a patron that keeps on going.
He also tell us in the Chasm quest that his curse it's a little bit different from the hirichurl's have.
Yeah, I know it's a bitt of stretch but a coincides very well with the Samsara festival, him incapable of go through the Irminsul himself and needing the sibling, and his constellation of Uroburos.
The Gnostic chorus could be a fairy tale like Nahida's tale about Scaramouche's path, which would explain the fantastical and inaccurate aspects of the chorus's story. It may have been left as a way to break the cycle, maybe it was Dainsleif himself that wrote the story, but we know that stories that hit the same beats as a backstory but are not exactly the same as the story get past the erasure of identities.
It would explain why our sibling wants us to experience the world without them interacting with us. If we are to make the final version of the world and our journey will be the blueprint them it must be as "pure" as possible.
If the arcons know about this somehow then them interacting with us is in a way, a way to cement themselves in the final timeline and not be forgotten.
If Omni is confirmed to be one of the lost or “forbidden” elements later on, this means that, in the end, The Traveler’s last element will be the full realization of all the ones he’s learned throughout his journey “combined into one.”
Also, i think the Tsaritsa is also trying to achieve to combine the Gnoses and make the Omni Gnosis to have access to something. Maybe a god counsel in which normally the gods are doing to attend meetings in celestia
It probably is something close to that@@groundmeatier.
@@groundmeatier Imagine she tries to do that, but couldn't hold the power of the Gnosis. Eventually only the Traveler will be able to take it since it's his/her "natural" element.
What if Lumine died and was reborn on Teyvat? That could be why she isn't seen as a descender and her and Aether's memories are intact the way they are. She DID have 500 years before he awoke...what if she died early on and it took her a long time to be ABLE to wake up him? If she was dead for, lets say, 100 years? Then she did the whole journey thing. She was reborn in K'ahnrea and all the...everything...happened. The journey she and Dains mentions could easily be accounted for, her association with the abyss and as well as her ability to control abyssal energy and the ruin machines...Maybe she was looking for information before she woke Aether up to provide him with and everything just backfired. OR she got the information, told him, that's why they were trying to get away, she (maybe?) died from the boxes from the sustainer OR now has a separate hypostatis of her own somewhere akin to how the archons have...or maybe even the siblings being akin to a hypostatis to each other, which is why she told Aether he has to finish his journey before...I think she said he would understand? He may not have died because of the situation of how he got...boxed. Or maybe because it takes a lot of out the sustainer to box someone up and the second one just wasn't strong enough. Or his attack screwed something up with the boxing. These are all just loose random thought threads, but of everything that I've personally thought about combined with your video...Lumine could have died and been reborn and that could be an answer for almost everything (between the siblings) and possibly the 500 years, since it's obvious our journey isn't taking us nearly as long, yet we're essentially taking the same journey, or very similar, that she did. None of the current archons seem to know her other then Zhongli but he isn't ALLOWED to say anything about it, due to a contract. Anyway just my thought, I'm very interested in what you think about my crazy person rambling @teyvayhistoria
Teyvet Historia you never seem to disappoint us. Your analysis makes more sense since you are the only one who did it. Also the quality of your video is always spot on.
The man is back at it again
I'm 4min in and before I keep watching, I want to make a comment about my conclusion on the matter:
As soon as I saw the myriads of changes Teyvat went through after GLR's branch was removed for Irminsul, I immediately thought to myself "that's so powerful! you can basically control everything through Irminsul". And then it dawned on me... You can control everything through Irminsul: every truth, every lie, knowledge, records, memories,... Absolutely everything. Like for example, the fact that we're not recorded in Irminsul but our sibling is.
The one important thing I wasn't able to make any conclusion on is: why? I assume Irminsul is used by The Heavenly Principles to control Teyvat's population. But to what end? The Archon War which instantiated the Seven Archons had the same purpose. But again, why? What is the value in Teyvat's population for The Heavenly Principles? (actually the link between The Heavenly Principles and Celestia has never been made clear, but I assume they're related in some way).
Also, it is theorized either the Primordial One or The Second Who Came *is* The Heavenly Principles, but how come we know about this story? Couldn't the records of Before Sun and Moon be altered just like with GLR? Or was the book already altered? If the Primordial One == The Heavenly Principles who we know from Nahida is likely a Descender, what about the Second Who Came? How come the Fatui's records don't mention them? Moreover, their names are incredibly vague. All this is definitely sus.
The reason why i think that the book before sun and moon couldnt be altered is that Enkanomia sunk , therefore outside of teyvat . Another reason to why that book isnt altered is that it got Orobashi killed for reading it , if it wasnt altered why kill him (sorry for the bad english).
That book must be safe from being rewritten, otherwise I don't see why the Abyss Order would want it. It contains a lot of fiction and myth too, which I'm pretty sure is what saves Pale Princess from being rewritten.
Sheesh this all make sense now, dainsleif title as the bough keeper may mean as an irminsul keeper, so he knows everything that happens in Teyvat. What sparks my interest is in 10:55, if Dainsleif is the narrator of all miscellanies since he is a Irminsul or Bough keeper, then Alice is higher than Dainsleif rank or power, since Alice have narrated Aloy’s miscellany (Aloy is also a descender) and Wanderer’s miscellany even if Scara have remove every memory about him.
So glad you're back! You're one of the best lore Genshin content creators.
I am confused. Dain is actually from Khaenri'ah, and the guard in the Chasm even recognized him as their captain... How could he even be a descender? And he is cursed too, just like everyone from Khaenri'ah. Lumine does not seem cursed btw, this is also an indicator, that she is definitely not from Khaenri'ah originally. And Heavenly principles is not a Queen of darkness?? What's dark about her? She's powerful for sure, but all she did she kind of arrested travellers for whatever mess our sibling got involved into before they so urgently tried to leave this world
we've been told Dain is from Khaenri'ah and we were told this from Lumine, that's shakey to trust, especially with how much Lumine has been messed with. He could have also spent time in Khaenri'ah, working as a knight during his journey which is why he feels so close to them and why they knew him so well, like the guard. We were told he was cursed with immortality by lumine but lets be real here. His curse is not "just like everyone from khaenri'ah". He is not a hilichurl or a creature of the abyss which are what "everyone" else from Khaenri'ah became. So the Dain stuff makes sense to me but what confuses me in this videos theory would be HP's motivation for trapping Lumine and Aether in this world? Surely, if this is the case, from her perspective, it would be better for her and the continuing cycles to allow any other descenders with power to leave Teyvat, rather than allow them to stay and interrupt the plan.
@@creatingpulsars9979 yeah, he's not a hilichurl and he's using something to stay sane. He wondered how that guard could still remember him without that 'thing'. He also mentioned that his body felt better in that upside down place in the Chasm, so it seems that his curse is still of similar nature. I am not saying he is not sus, but it seems a bit weird to see Dain as Susty's brother
@@creatingpulsars9979 That's the thing. Lumine likely was messed when we were escaping. The reason why they were trapped was to deny Lumine the Ability to get reinforcements from another world.
The flower in Lumine head is a special flower that only turns to dust when it returns to Kheanriah and Symbolizes a Traveller longing for their homeland.
Lumine already became loyal to Kheanriah. She had no intention to never return to Teyvat.
There's difference between SUSTAINER of Heavenly principles and the HEAVENLY PRINCIPLES themselves
@@creatingpulsars9979 Kaeya is not a hilichurl or creature of the abyss either but we know he's from Khaenriah too. Pierro is also most likely but not confirmed to be from Khaenriah but he also still has his human form. There's something up with those three, but idk what.
It is still scary that you can change teyvat easily, of course, need a huge amount of power, but still. And oooooo!! A perceptive on Dain. Very interesting.
8:10 She is the SUSTAINER of heavenly principles, not THE heavenly principles
Here is my simple explination.
When it was revealed two us that the sister somehow originated from Teyvat there are a few more factors in the same quest:
1. The recording of her starts after the fall of the civilization, which is weird as Aether seemed to have woken up in the middle of that happening for a moment, so the siblings were attacked before that.
2. Her existence suddenly has ended at some point, which makes no sense because we've MET her after that happened.
3. The questions is also centered around a puppet born of Teyvat with his own history, despite being artificial
4. The main antagonist is a guy who created different instances of himself.
That Lumine that was recorded by the tree. An copy created of her on Teyvat. That's the most simple of solutions to take care of these issue
I really like your content not just for the stories you tell and the way you provide the lore, but it’s the way you read/talk, it’s so chilled I can just full relax and enjoy your content
The only holes in this theory is that Morax seems to remember that there are only 2 Original Archons left, We also don’t know who is the deceiver, Alice (Klee’s mother) seems to have found a 5th descender during 2.2 or could be one her self as she mentioned about work outside of Tevyat’s borders, and Alloy is still out there in teyvat somewhere
it reminds me of how otto apocalypse change the past. he woven his fate into the imaginary tree putting him in the past and deleting himself in the present
I agree on your theory and because of how much lore the Traveler has, it has made me main him from the beginning! I'm also looking forward for the continuation of the We Will Be Reunited quest!
I still want to know who is above the Sibling, because it is hinted that there is another higher one pulling the strings of the Abyss.
Also, just a personal thing, but Aether is my Abyss "rival" (Lumine superiority!), so seeing you talk about only Lumine all the time as the Abyss sibling slightly rubs me the wrong way. :D
Your theory had a very strong start, the idea of someone ADDING new information to Irminsul is groundbreaking, and we know its possible, since Nahida herself theorises someone is meddling with the sibling's "fate".
However, it derails around the time you start speaking of the descenders. You see, the "Sustainer of Heavenly Principles" (the unknown god) and the "Heavenly Principles" are NOT the same entity, you seem to be mixing the two.
While we do not know for sure who or what exactly the "Heavenly Principles" are, the more accepted theory is that it is Phanes, the Primordial One, who is explicitly stated to have DESCENDED upon Teyvat from beyond. Hence: the 1st descender. The book also mentions that Phanes battles "the second who came", which is obviously the 2nd descender. The 3th is unknown and the 4th is the Traveller.
If the unknown god was the Heavenly Principles itself, she wouldn't call herself the "Sustainer", she would just say she IS the Heavenly Principles. And no, I dont think she is a descender either, she is probably one of the four shades of the Primordial One.
Ah yes, one of the few people who doesn’t completely agree with the poster
He jumps to a lot of conclusions, one of the ones that I hate the most is how he automatically assumes the sibling would forget you the moment they’re added to irminsul
There’s no reason for us to assume they would forget us, and we can also clearly see that they DIDNT forget us.
It’s a very weird theory once he gets further into it and confuses me anlot
Dain doesn’t seem to have any idea who Zhongli actually is in his miscellany trailer which would seem to fly in the face of the Irminsul keeper theory… unless of course the writers simply hadn’t thought that far ahead at the time…or Zhongli himself did something to the tree 🤔
It makes sense because when we talk about dain undergoing curruption is making irminsul undergo it too creating those zones which apparently nahida doesn't know the reason behind. And the new 3.4 inaccessible part on map in the center of desert and green sumeru seems to be the dain's branch
What i got from the entirety of sumeru, including the whole thing about segments and how big a deal was made out of them only for them to 'all' be gone is that:
The sibling we meet in the abyss is a segment of the twin. When nahida helped the traveler look for info on their sibling it wouldve been with information the traveler had as reference point, so nahida ended up tracking info on the segment-twin (whom is of teyvat) and not the original-twin who is a descender.
We probably arrive around the destruction of Khaenri'ah before the heavenly principles rewrote the world, your twin being the one that gets sealed away in the cutscene first, seems to be taken for some sort of purpose considering the unknown god looks at us like were not needed and turns away from us, meaning we probably got sealed the same way but were discarded/forgotten left to eventually reawaken after our sibling had been rewritten into the world; by whatever happened during Khaenri'ah's fall. Supposedly we can assume that we were released from the seal as a result of the "Unknown god" no longer being present or alive and after 500 years and that their power that sealed us away had finally faded away, or perhaps it was Paimon had intentionally found us,, drifting in the seas eventually to wash up on Mondstats beach where using the last of their power to unseal us resulting in her loss all memories and power similar to Nahida and Guoba.
If the unknown gods power was able to seal otherworldly powers away and whole beings its not a far reach to say that its power may be able to protect the information contained within from being altered thus making us immune to the heavenly principles rewriting the Tevyat during the what happened at Khaenri'ah's fall
Excellent theory! Very thought provoking! One question I have is how the Abyss fits into all of this? In the archon quest, Rukkhadevata said that the forbidden knowledge came from the bottom of the Abyss, and it was also mentioned that forbidden knowledge is not of this world. So doesn't that mean the Abyss is a descender?
Amazing video! loved it. Btw I think thats one of the reasons why they usually put Aether in the official videos, because like Dainsleif, he is the one who walked the journey (more canonically than Lumine). The flower on Lumine's hair also only works if its on her since Aether doesn't use any on his.
I fully agree with your theory! I cant see genshin introducing two more descenders that we dont already know, unless theyre planning to do something with pierro/another harbinger.
Since the We will be reunited, I have a feeling that Dain is brother to the Goddess and they're both mentioned in Gnostic Chorus.
Back then I came up with idea she's corrupted and became the Sustainer of heavenly principles, just like some persons in Honkai becoming Herrschers.
That's why, similarly to Gnostic Chorus finale, Dain wants to save his sister aka the Goddess while the Abyss is trying to dethrone any kind of gods including her. That's why he's enemy to the Abyss
Wow this theory is actually interesting
This makes a lot of sense.
i agree with most points here and i do really have a hunch that Dain has something to do with everything that happened especially the fact that our sibling is not considered/counted as a Descender like us.
With the concept of descender introduced we're one step closer to the honkai
I honestly don't know what to think anymore after Nahida's quest. Literally nothing can be trusted anymore. Memories, the sky, the entire world of Teyvat is full of lies and deception. Lumine and Aether are all likely under the influence of Celestia, manipulating them. To what extent is unknown, but I don't trust anyone now.
The Primordial One was really the first decender- since we know they existed and we still have records of them, then they have a branch in Irminsul also.
Dottore tells Nahida about siblings, maybe he personally entered Irminsul and changed information, he was shown in next to not without reason. I bet Pierro is aware of that since he lives over 500 years
This analysis gave me the craziest idea,
What if dain is traveler's by future self?
hold on, the woman at the begining of the game is NOT the heavenly principles no? she was called the sustainer of heavenly principles. on top of that, isn't the primordial one (seemingly phanes at this point in the game) the first descender that usurped the seven sovereigns, not the heavenly principles? Unless they're both the same entity.
Guys After finishing the archon quest I think venti is one of the descenders. It's obvious he has the ability to time travel yet he doesn't forget like when he greatest good morning to the traveler.
Venti has a connection to Istaroth (the God of Time) so his possible time powers would come from there. And people are theorising that he's using ballads like how Nahida used fairy tales, to remember stuff.
8:30 the knock knock was quiet but still made me jump and look at my door lmao
I think that Dain is one of the heirs in the gnostic hymn but I don't think the sustainer is the first heir. I do, however, think that the first heir is queen of the abyss. In one of the recent trailers Lumine talks about Aethers quest however it's revealed that she ANSWERS to someone else that we don't know yet. She's also the princess of the abyss. If she were the leader, why not call her the queen? Because the queen is Dains sister, the first heir who believes herself to be the queen of darkness (the abyss).
I also think that Alice is another descender. Usually Dain introduces characters in trailers but if he's connected to and in irminsuls "database", he wouldn't remember it but if Alice isn't in the tree.. then that could explain why she was in Scaranaras trailer. I think she's one of the recorded and known descenders in Teyvat and she very much seems to know a lot more than some characters.
I do wonder though... since people can be added to the database... just how many more descenders exist but have just been added to the database so they don't register as not from this world anymore? Because if I'm counting correctly there's why more than just four that aren't from Teyvat, including the primordial one, the second throne of Celestia, possibly dain and his sister, Lumine and Aether and Alice!
believe
1st - the primordial one (paimon after loosing fight and powers to 2nd aka heavenly principles)
2nd - heavenly principles BUT she manipulated history to disguise herself as the first one who defeated the invaders which is the second onee aka she herself..
3rd - Alice ( she is surely an outlander and most probably from earth, like aether,)
4th - Aether
The traveler isn't from earth. They're more likely literal intergalactic stars
@@xxmariatinaxx try reading honkai Impact mamgas you will have your answer
@@xxmariatinaxx Honkai lore already hinted that the twins might be Project Ark ( yes they're likely from Earth)
@@arpanConYT literally 0 evidence they are from project ark tho
@@josebaltoomarnilson4762 the game lore is not for 2 yo that it would be right in front of you, you gotta connect dots and analyze, also its about what is available at this point about the honkai universe and genshin universe, and some jumbled up speculatons from me, off course there won't hard evidence for everything,
I have a nice joke "teyvat it just a simulated universe created by kuru-kuru girl , and the descenders are people from real world that dive into the simulated universe
For what I understand from the chinese voice line is the irminsul tree is stained and becomes sickly. In order to stop the sickness to spread, they have chosen the purest branch (Kusanali) and regrowth it to replace the old tree (Rukkhadevata).
This action is like an overwriting database.
Rukkhadevata is like Kusanali Mother.
I don’t even play the game anymore. This is all the content I need.
Dain is sure giving off some Otto type of vibe.
This reminds me of the time South Park renamed Token to Tolkien and changed all the captions of previous episodes
Great theory, but dainsleif as a descender is a bit strange because his eyes have a star shape to them, those from khaen'riah have star shaped eyes. So how can he be a descender???
Never occurred to me one could add a branch and I thought it was kind of hokey until you pointed out he’s literally called the bough keeper.
What if he didn’t add one, but safeguards one that existed before that he also had removed? What if Lord Rukkhadevata wasn’t the original, instead replacing another like Nahida did?
after sumeru i will pay more attention to the lore, i just noticed that these changes in the lore when wanderer erased himself from history and i saw that shogun no longer had the dialogue about him i thought this detail was really cool.
Bro bringing up the lumine teaser was huuge, cause I always wondered why lumine seemed to have a flash of memories of aether as if shed forgotten him and aa love your theories as usual
Sometimes I forget that status used to make sounds and it sounds disappeared after finishing this quest
The worst possible plot twist would be that there is no abyss sibling. Either the protag or the abyss sibling or both are literal puppets (like Wanderer) or imaginary created from messing with history. It would invalidate too much of the protag's personal backstory and is close to the writer plays with the emotions of the reader, which in my book, is not good storytelling.
Fr
I would like to add that Rukkadevata talks about the Samsara, on how she and Nahida are the same but in two different moment of the samsara, this only add, if not confirm, the cyclical nature of Tyevat.
Samsara is in buddhism the cycle of rebirth of every beings, until the final illumination, stopping with the reach of Nirvana
This is my exact theory!! I had this a while ago, and I'm really glad you had the same idea of 'Celestia did something, and our sibling not being s descender is false'. I personally belive they did so to keep their power, since they've already screwed with FATE to (seemingly) make the travelers journey as deadly as possible.
I just had a really interesting idea before this video even started
What if the forbidden knowledge related to the sibling (it existed before 500 years ago, so it cannot be said fully to just be knowledge of the traveller sibling), and they were rewritten into the main timeline when Rukkhadevata was deleted (and irminsul just punched the autocorrect in somehow)
What i thought at first was, what if OUR Lumine is already takeover the Celestia and the ABYSS Lumine is Alchemist Gold's product like Albedo?
Now I have another doubt. What if Lumine herself intentionally planted this new memory in Irminsul?
I have a feeling that your theory helps explain the "her" Dain speaks of in official content as being the first descender, not Lumine. Choosing Lumine as one's traveler, I think, also helps clarify that the gnostic chorus is a parallel to the traveler twins' story rather than a 1:1
lumine remembered her brother when the abyss mage told her about him
One detail that i have found bone-chilling is in Nahida's story quest that hints that we may have never had a sibling............. ( potential spoiler)
We see our sibling ath the start of the dream, but Nahida only sees ONE shooting star.
Not 2.
That's probably because Nahida being part of Teyvat sees the changed version of history. Just like she does not remember Rukha. Aether however remebers both Rukha and his sister being an outlander
I figured we saw our sibling due to the effects of the dream, and that was an illusion like in the beginning of Sumeru. I also assumed the star would be a hint of Rukkhadevata or something
@@Dizzykathie is more than plausable explanation, but if we add the detail that literally no one remembers meeting the sibling, except the Aranara, makes me wonder. Yes, we met Abyss sibling once, before history has been re written. I find it strange.
A very terrible retcon if it were to be the case, would be very dumb if the sibling was never real I don't think the traveler is that gullible to be manipulated into having to deal with all the bs like traveling the entire teyvat just to be told that their sibling never existed in the first place
They've travelled together through different worlds before getting stuck into teyvat though. And as we saw, the traveller's memory cannot be altered through the irminsul so what they remember is true.
the branch in the cutscene is kusanali 500 hundred years ago
After playing the Archon quest and Scaramouche saying that Lumine only came because the heavens responded to the summoning your theory kinda makes sense I think Lumine was the reason Khaneri ah got destroyed all along she is the power that Khaneri ah needed to challenge the gods of celestia
Wait but doesn't Dainsleif still want to free the Sustainer? Now that both of them have connection some of his dialogue maybe interpreted as freeing the Sustainer too, just like Aether wants to rescue Lumine?
Neon Genesis Genshin Impact: You Can (Not) Have Your Sibling Back
one of the best Theory's I ever see
im almost certain lumine is counted as a native to teyvat because of rukkadehvatas reality reset when she created nahida. further, think you may have misunderstood some of her dialogue in her quests.
@teyvathistoria I thought the same thing at the end of the archon quest especially since irminsul was corrupted it would have been easy to plant a memory..what if the traveler realizes dainsleif plan Sooner than later and ruin his plan? What if the traveler finds a way to remove the branch from the tree and alter dainsleif objective for deceiving lumine in the first place?
From the new 3.5 archon quest it says how pure blood khaenri’ahs got the curse of immortality instead of truing into monsters and since dainslef got the curse of immortality proves that he is from this world, also if dain was one of the descenders then there would be no more spots left for the sibling to be a descender since the heavenly principles aren’t the first descenders, in a book in enkonomiya it says that phanes, the primordial one was the first descender and how the heavenly principles was the second and they overthrew phanes and his 4 shades and no one currently alive knows this because anyone who finds the book and reads it dies like what happened with the big snake that got killed by ei. Also Nahida says how her saying the heavenly principles is the first descender is only a hypothesis. So according to this information if the sibling was a descender then the correct order of the descenders would be, phanes, the heavenly principles, travelers sibling, traveler.
You got this a bit mixed up
That's definitely an interesting theory which explains a lot of things but I don't think it's all that simple. If just adding a branch to Irminsul was enough to strip our sibling of the Descender status then removing the hypothetical branch should make a new Descender. But that's exactly what happened to Nahida and she isn't considered one so I believe there's more to it.
Just like removing Rukkhadevata from Irminsul had no effect on Traveler's memory, there's no reason why implanting memory of the sibling into it should have any effect on memory of either of the siblings. There's no doubt it would lead to creation of Teyvat version of the sibling but that would be just a copy, a "puppet" following whatever the Irminsul memory has written in it for them. Yes the genuine sibling is a descender but that's not the sibling we're meeting in the story. We have no information about where the genuine sibling is and perhaps it has its own copy of Teyvat and experiences the same story we do through their eyes.
Theres nothing that hints to the creation of a fake version of the sibling by altering the tree. Its a theory based on nothing
Now that I think about it, what if the gnostic chorus is actually an encrypted story like to what nahida used to keep scaramouches past in the rewritten history?
So boughkeeper Dainsleif spliced our sibling's fate into to World Tree, making her indistinguishable as an Outworlder. This was to lock the both of us to the fate of Teyvat and ensure that if we wanted to save our sibling, we'd have to save the world too since they had run out of options already. Amazing theory and it finally gives a more solid connection
Debunked considering the new quest. Next.
I'm curious. I do think there is A LOT of merit to this theory, but what about the Primordial One and the Second Who Came? Technically the unknown God called herself the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles. We don't know for sure that that MAKES her the Heavenly Principles. We also don't know for sure that HP is the first descender, just that is what Buer is assuming. The Primordial One according to lore was the one who first came to this world from another, defeated the seven dragon'-lords. Then there was the 'Second Who Came'. Couldn't these be the first two descenders? Also who's to say there's only 4? We were told we were named named the fourth by the Fatui. Not that we were the fourth and last. Also, who knows how much of the fatui intel is real or not? And none of this touches on the sky being fake. Anything in the tree and leylines can now be questioned and doubted.... ugh..... I love genshin Lore but I still feel like we have no real answers other than we have a sibling who was separated from us for an unknown reason by an unknown god and they may or may not be up to no good now. I've decided the big answer is that Teyvat.... is.... a videogame. First descender, Hoyoverse. Second descender, Yu-Peng Chen, Third Descender, Dain's voice actor as the narrator and the Fourth Descender is the traveller because it's us.... the players. ... although legit, if we finally get to the true endgame and the answer is something along the lines of "its a videogame" I will be pissed lol
I can't remember which content creator came up with this Theory, but it went along the lines if there are Descenders then maybe it's possible of Ascenders? And there is speculation that Celestia was originally created on Teyvat before rising up into the sky; similarly like Ningguang's Jade Chamber. And that the Second who came to start the war was actually from Teyvat ascending and overthrowing the Primordial after they became advanced enough to do so. Which implies that the Primordial one's faction was betrayed by a faction from within, according to the theory. When you look at the ancient technology of King Deshret and that he was friends with a Seele, there then is a chance of creditability here. I mean if Irminsul can even rewrite memories, than the person or faction that owns it is all powerful. They wouldn't even need to be all that powerful if all you needed was that mechanism. Once you have access, you would then have god-like powers.
@@bluestrider2562 Maybe! Venti did mention vision holders all have the potential to ascend to celestia after all
Agree that the sustainer of heavenly principles is NOT the heavenly principles
Before all this though, one question I want addressed is that, what about the "Before Sun and Moon" book? I have never read the book personally but those who have did tell me that there were other Descenders in Teyvat. And that they have told me that it was the Primordial One being the First Descender and the Second Throne for the 2nd Descender. What made me confused in all of these theory halfway into the video is that, I don't understand why are we referring to the Unknown God as the "Heavenly Principles". She has clearly referred to herself as the "SUSTAINER" of Heavenly Principles. I don't think they are the same person (or God, in this case).
So, before all this, I was led to believe that the Three other Descenders before our Traveler was:
First: Primordial One
Second: The Second Throne
Third: ?????
Fourth: Our Traveler (or perhaps, also including the Abyss Sibling, because its already weird she isn't a Descender).
I think it would be better to address this first and solidify who were the three other Descenders before the Traveler because I think this theory maybe a bit confusing. Also, I am in the camp that sorta disagrees that Dainsleif is a Descender, it kind of don't make sense when his Curse of Immortality (albeit not being the same curse as the Khaenri'ahn people being Hilichurls) is of Teyvat or maybe perhaps inflicted to him by Celestia(?).
Haven't even started the video and I'm already in agreement and trying to find a snack.
Because traveler sisters corpse is turned into the gnosis by the heavenly principle, and the existing travellers sister is likely to be a being born out of memories of the orginal travelers sister, well we all know the gnosis are made out of third decenders corpse.
We aren’t 100% sure that the sibling would be the third- I do like your theory though, it’s one I’ve been considering for a bit as I do NOT agree with this guys video, he randomly jumped to a lot of conclusions
The problem with your theory (which I'd expect others have already pointed out), is that the first heir in the Gnostic Chorus is associated with the Abyss which fits for Lumine but not for the Unknown God.
I think Mihoyo isn't making it as hard as all that, and it's pretty clear who all the descenders are based on their shared character design elements. A lot of people point to Paimon having a similar motif as the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles, but this is the same stellar/sidereal motif as the twins and Dainsleif as well. So the four would be the Heavenly Principles, Paimon, Dain (who filled a similar role for the sibling as Paimon does for the MC), and the MC, with the sibling being scrubbed from the ranks in a fashion similar to what you describe.
My theory is that the cutscene is meaningless. It's just Venti telling what he knows of our story as a fictional tale like he does with everything, so it doesn't ever get wiped from Irmunsul. Hence why it's our journey, our tale to be told.
We might be looking too much into this cutscene, but I really like your version
(this might be a half-baked theory)
from every region we've learned much about the world, Sumeru taught us about Knowledge and where every information and memories of Teyvat is stored but i dont think they told us how Irminsul gets it's information. im pretty sure that Fontaine will tell us this because Fontaine is the city of Judgement, Laws & consequences. they might not only teach us about Laws of the city but the Laws of the world, what i mean is for a perfect example of a Law is the Law of Causality, which would fit well with Irminsul. this Law would be in a similar form as Irminsul right, and where does a tree gets some of it's nutrients, from Water, the Form of Causality is most likely a Sea/ocean. Law of causality effects many things but mostly effects Timelines and adding & removing something like a person or information from a timeline will cause a ripple effect within the timeline, effecting everything within the world, like information that Irminsul has. what gave me this theory is this part here 10:09, where raiden drops the seed into what i would think is the Sea of Causality/Time or whatever it might be, causing a ripple effect and showing that something has changed within the timeline.
cant wait for them to be _"reunited"_ and make fan arts about it
My biggest problem with this entire erasure situation is the same problem with the sumeru sages story of if one situation didn’t exist what was the point of the main story.
In the case of scaramouche him erasing himself makes the entire second half of the inazuma story quest all over the place because the electro gnosis has no reason to have been in sumeru in the first place and la signora death doesn’t add up because she died directly because of scaramouche actions
Hell I’d argue the traveler shouldn’t be alive because the yae explicitly went to the delusion factory for scaramouche so honestly I just find the idea incredibly convoluted with trying to not just go the extra mile and undo events that happened if you take certain characters out of the equation
Dain also always says we’ll meet again when the time is right
The strongest theory I've seen about Aether and Lumine that holds weight! .. Though, I think what you've said about Dains is interesting and plausible, there is another that could be considered a Descender.. Alice, Klee's mother and she has given influence to certain individuals, from the top of my head.. She gave Barbara the idea of being an idol and given her a book from another world, a certain boy in Inazuma that you play hide'n'seek with a ball - that mind you is made from a bomb, she has had certain dealings with Dori from Sumeru.. Less we forget that on rare occasions Alice or Dains narrative a character trailer. Food for thought~.
I don’t think it’s quite strong, he’s had a lot of holes in this theory, let me bring up my favorite!
He jumped to the conclusion the sibling would forget the traveller the moment they were added to the irminsul, which is clearly not shown or supported
5:26 No, any changes in the information stored in the Irminsul does not affect Descenders.
for info the flower in Lumine head is from khaenriah, and before we go to teyvat she already have that flower
its definitely beyond undeniable that lumine is a descender. but the interlude quest with scara kinda confirms that one of the "4" is the jester. so we have 1 unaccounted for. and since the CURRENT timeline of teyvat doesn't include lumine in that category, theres clearly some very interesting things happening in teyvat lore D: ive got a mini theory that its alice, but i dont really have any evidence to back that up. but it WOULD make alot of sense if it was her. lowkey wish i had a time machine to go forward in time just to consume all the future genshin lore 😅
I’d say that The Heavenly principles isn’t the Sustainer, as the sustainer is called Asmoday which is Asmodeus. Unless That identity was forced in it would be weird if a descender was apart of a line of gods named after the ars goetia
We should reexamine what the aranara say about our sibling for inconsistences
When I was the battle pass cutscene I had a feeling that the story was somehow portraying the travelers story and I've seen some other theory videos too and my current theory/opinion is that there is a light element and a darkness element which the siblings orignally had the light element as their powers. Smth about ambition and all the elements can be activated thru the light element and the darkness element. Negative ambition like seeking for revenge can be smth to do with the darkness element and the same thing with positivity and the light element. Lumine has gotten access to the darkness element thru her journey and now thinks she belongs to this world bc of like said in this video and the battle pass cutscene. Both siblings have a goal for smth which they have an ambition for, Aether's goal is to reunite with Lumine and his ambition is positive and smth to do with saving others just like how he wants to save his sister. Lumine's is unknown but it's negative like it could be revenge cuz of the thing with her getting access to the darkness element. Also, in the battle pass cutscene it says "But she was decieved, and the memory of her noble origins faded". This supports the theory in this video about the branch being added and changing Lumine's memory. Im too lazy to continue typing a whole paragraph rn but u get the idea. 🙃
Also realized one of the other videos I watched was from this channel too lol