he was saying that he didn't like the rhetoric that he was 'hiding' his old lyrics and didnt want people to find out about it. he says he's 'come a long way from [his] past' - arguably, he's saying that he's taking up responsibility for it and is owning to them, not trying to cover it up.
Exactly yet he opened a floodgates to his past that he told publicly he "grew" from, idk if he grew from that if he still threatened everyone that he's gonna go back to his past self if some Fandom attacked him
@@ryss335He was joking, clearly. He isn’t actually going to go back to how he used to be because he’s changed and has said he isn’t proud of his old music.
Unpopular opinions. First, rape is used as a threat against women often enough that it deserves to be taken seriously if someone puts it in a rap and names a specific woman. Second, Tyler got away with his lyrics because of the type of women he targeted. A lot of people desperately want to see Swift "humbled".
You're unpopular opinion should be popular. Also being a woman breaking glass ceilings is part of the reason people want to see Taylor Swift humbled. The r*pey lyrics are disgusting
Also, Tyler admits on this album multiple times to being a homewrecker and I’ve literally seen ZERO people criticize him for it. BUT WHEN ARIANA DOES IT…
@@BigOwl51it’s not ok for either party to be a home wrecker and from what I seen ariana doesn’t think she’s a home wrecker but there is definitely a double standard in there (per usual)
I agree and also I'm the same age as Tyler the Creator. Literally my name is Tyler. We're a couple months apart lol. The stuff he was saying was wild at the time. Like before he really got big I was into like a lot of artists with these dark f'd up lyrics and even for me Tyler the Creator was doing a lot haha. He was explicitly making music for people who didn't care if that stuff was okay. So you're ripping every tendon in your arm as a fan trying to reach to defend the stuff in 2024
In 2016 I was in an abusive relationship, he loved Tyler's Goblin album a lot. It was the only Tyler album he would put on. It was my first exposure to Tyler's music and it upset me so much that once I left that man, I never wanted to see or hear about Tyler the Creator ever again until 2019 when Flower Boy fell into my recommended shuffle or whatever on spotify. Genuinely such a terrifying time in my life with a HORRIFYING soundtrack, people are more than entitled to be horrified at this album. I couldn't listen to Tyler for years. I'm ultimately glad that Flower Boy fell on my rotation, as he's one of my favourite artists now, but to wave away Goblin criticism as "dramatic" and "missing the point" is terrible
i'm sorry to hear :( I do agree it's ridiculous for people to wave away criticism as being "dramatic" and "racist", when in reality, play stupid games! win stupid prizes! Tyler is just reaping those stupid prizes now LOL
god I hate that us women are just supposed to accept that men that had “edgy phases” are different now even tho they threaten to go back to being “edgy” when we aren’t adequately appreciative of their change like this isn’t even about just tyler. i want to enjoy the artistry of hip hop and rap but the prominence of female violence in the genre is just so exhausting
not defending tyler necessarily but i dont think thats a particularly nuanced understanding of hiphop. theres so much hiphop that is not misogynist or promoting female violence, its an incredibly broad genre of music. a lot of rappers are in fact women lol. im sure you didnt mean it this way but historically dismissing all hiphop as misogynist has been used as a racist dogwhistle by pearl clutching white women.
Being insanely racist claiming queer black men want to be white women = "not being appreciative enough" blud shut tf up. Have some perspective and touch grass. What they're saying are literal hate crimes, he's being dragged for awful shit from back in the days, Taylor fans are *committing hate crimes in 2024*
It’s always bothered me how men are applauded for treating women and other minorities like human beings. We view it as some sort of “growth” as though it shouldn’t be the standard to not treat women like shit.
Some people in the comments are like “listen to hey Jane and judge Judy”, which are new songs on his album and are very positive towards women. I like those songs but people using them as excuses for his past behavior is a shitty thing to do. They’re essentially saying “well he says nice things about women NOW so none of that other stuff matters”
5:15 don't you just love when they call a 20 year old man a teenager to justify the stuff he did and wrote while girls are expected to watch their every step from a very early age?
@@creepypastacraft d'angelo just showed us a video of him being 22 and saying the same disgusting things, out loud even. like, i get your point (even though where i live 19 is no longer considered teenage) and i respect it, but please don't pretend 19 isn't old enough to know better
@@creepypastacraftyes, 19 still counts as teenager. Also note that this teenager was openly talking about wanting to r@>pe girls the very day they turned 18. If a person is old enough to know about s3 × then that person is old enough to know about consent. There's no way his behavior can be excused for him being an adult teenager. He[[, nobody should ever be glorifying ra/>pe no matter how young or old they are. It's insane that so many kids have to be so careful out there, and this man just gets to say that BS and gets excused by some fans. It just isn't right.
@@creepypastacraft A 19 year old is an adult. Full stop. If little children know that murder is wrong there is no excuse for a 19 year old to be singing and glorifying rape. Being a "teenager" does not excuse anything.
why does horror core have to equal violent language towards women. tired of this shit fr I had been wanting to explore Tyler’s music for awhile bc he’s so acclaimed but uhhh,,,,,idk about this one folks
@@DISCRECTIONGR0VE just because you're a c*nt doesn't mean everyone else is lmfao. some people have basic human decency. i understand that it's a foreign concept to clowns like you, but they don't actually have to "get over" anything. cry about it.
“He was being edgy and unserious to piss people off” okay but why are these things always about women? Why are they always made into punching bags for sexual fetish disguised as shock content? He’s upset about the racism directed towards him (make no mistake, Im not excusing it even the slightest) but can’t scrounge up enough empathy to understand that people are just as affected by his misogyny?
He understands he has said horrible things in his music. And he has apologized to people about his past work and moved on. For example on manifesto he talks about apologizing to selena in person for tweeting crazy things about her during his early stages. I understand his old lyrics are ugly, but you cannot say he did not apologize and move on and grow from his past. He has taken accountability for his actions. I don't see the idea of harping on old lyrics
did you not even watch the video? That song is acknowledged, and so are all of Tyler’s actions after his “apology”. The actions speak louder than his (weak) words.
@@aries9716 1) does he? as D'Angelo says in the video, except for one song there's hardly any evidence of him saying sorry (and even in that song it's a non-apology at best). plus now he's threatening to come back to that, thus straight up threatening to verbally SA Taylor Swift in his music, which is absolutely disgusting and does not show any growth; 2) the people he offended directly are not the only ones he should apologise to, especially after bringing this up again on his own (the fanbase, specifically the women in it, deserve an apology too); 3) had he moved on there would be at least one interview/video/tweet where he properly acknowledges the issues in his past music (mentioning the misogyny in it straight-up) and he wouldn't be joking/threatening about the come back of that era or trying to wash his hands on his own misogyny by crying wolf(racism, which I'm not arguing he doesn't experience, just that maybe this isn't the moment to bring it up like a shield).
@@aries9716well seems like he doesn't really grow when he publicly say and reminded his old fans AND new fans with "don't make me going back to tron cat era" on that NEW video of him
as a longtime female fan of tyler, i truly hated his old stuff and i AM impressed with his growth and coming out. however, it's disappointing that he threatened to "go back" to the goblin era, essentially acting as if his growth doesn't matter and he hasn't actually matured. not happy about this.
This part! Everyone's saying "he's grown and changed!" But the only reason people looked at his old stuff is because he threatened to "bring back the old him" and told them to look it up. He's the one who made it relevant to the conversation.
To me, it’s a sign that he never changed at all and just has been pretending he has tbh. If you truly were better, you wouldn’t be threatening to go back to a dangerous version of yourself tbh
@@Sing_A_Rebel_SongI don’t think he meant it exactly like that but he meant it like he’s gonna come out and diss her. He was harsh back then and that’s why he threatened that
Its so exhausting. Men are so obssess with violence against women then cries when women irl dont want anything from men or are scared of men. Remember the man vs bear issue and how many men were angry and offended when women would rather be around bears then men.
20 year old tyler the creator was "just a kid who would still learn", but 20 year old taylor swift was declared a whore by the media for having too many boyfriends. the double standards are always so obvious.
Are you like 12? He was banned in the three countries, mostly censored from the mainstream and there were protests outside of his shows. So, why get online and lie? People were taking his music seriously back then, too, and thought he was satanic, racist, homophobic and rapist and a danger to young people.
@@kyoga5714girl are YOU 12? You completely missed the whole point of the comment omfg… no one is saying that his music wasn’t taken seriously, but look at the DIFFERENCE between how Taylor and Tyler are treated. A man who made lyrics about r4pe (yes we know its intrusive thoughts but if a woman tried going down that artistic lane then oh she would be torn to SHREDS) and a woman who writes about her love life are not the same in absolutely any regard…???? No one is lying omg i dont fw Taylor swift but people treat her horribly just because she writes about her failed relationships or whatnot but YALL expect mfs to give Tyler some kind of bouquet of roses and an apology for calling how his behavior back then was deranged. Time doesnt expire the weight of your actions or words. Also his response in that recent video was weird… why even reference the album everyone supposedly claims he has “grown” from and say “youre going to bring out the old me” ?????? Like yeah i get it was a character or whatever but why call it the old YOU that you’re gonna revert back to if it was NEVER actually you in the first place? It’s still pretty gross and strange to say sorry!
@@fanumgoonNone of that was true, Connor her youngest bf was already 18 when taylor was 21 when she started dating him. 3 year age gap. Compare that to Diddler the creator, who was a 30+ grown man when he dated Reign Judge who was a teenager back then
Thank you so much for this. Genuinely, as a black woman who loves loves rap, there are way too many black male rappers who do this without any sort of consequence, and it's been going on for way too long, with people like Eazy E ,DMX, Biggie, all of these popular figures within the community, who are still praised today, at the cost of a safe space for black women within the hip hop industry. It's extremely disheartening. edit: Also, him tweeting that stuff is a legitimate form of sexual harassment, so please think twice before defending that.
Excactly! It must be so incredibly disheartening to see the person who makes things so unsafe for you, who jokes about the violence against you be praised and highlighted. And I agree, those tweets are sexual harassment and I am schocked they were even allowed to be tweeted…
A lot of the women I saw calling him out were black and it's soooooo interesting that he lumped them with "racist ass swifties" He's so comfortable with erasing black women and their voices
One of my neighbors at a previous apartment demanded that I follow him on Twitter. When I finally did, it turned out he was posting gross sexual fantasies **about female tenants in the building**. It was gross and r4pey and we were all terrified of the dude. (Elderly incel who also posted on incel forums.) Unfortunately, the **women** managing the building didn't understand what Twitter was (in 2016!) and threatened to evict me for "hacking his email." Uh, he straight up demanded I follow him AT a tenant meeting with witnesses and I called him out for sexual harassment expecting me to read that garbage. He went on to have a predatory relationship with a neighbor who was having a crisis after her fiancé dumped her, and there were rumors he r4ped her in her apartment where everyone on that courtyard could hear it happening. (It happened while I was out for the day so I didn't witness anything myself.)
I don’t know what man needs to hear this, but we don’t need “fake” misogyny for the sake of commentary or satire when there’s already so much real misogyny in the world. Let’s just simply not.
Always the keyboard warriors quick to be racist but if you ever was face to face to them, they are scared. There is a content creators who actually calls them out while they think no one knows who they really are. They always apologize and scared that their real life will be affected.
I hate it when valid criticism gets overshadowed by unwarrented hate that leads to the wrong person getting a cushion of false sympathy, making it easy for them to sway accountability because they getting racist comments unrelated to the matter at hand.
@@twobitt2222 exactly like this mf tyler literally apologized for this exact thing and atp taylor swift fans are just upset he beat her on the charts and they wanna bring up his old lyrics which he always says he wont be cancelled for because hes already been cancelled in real life, not no internet shitl ike this video is trying to do... like these mfs are just bored
@twobitt2222 never that. I'm a fan of his too don't get me wrong. I love his music. I see his past music as a part of his life he shared that helps understand who he is now. The homophibia which now in hindsight can be seen as internalized homophibia as a Bi man himself. However, as much as I understand that, I also understand women don't have to be a stepping stone to his self growth. And it's a past he can't erase but some accountability would be nice. Genuine accountability, from him not from fans (myself included) coming up with that sincerity and accountability from vague statements he's said in interviews
@@twobitt2222 idk why people see people like him getting called out as a carrer ruining thing. This is something that has been brought up time and time again and he still got to the top of the charts. In no way is he ever going to get "punished" for his actions.
separate from the swift of it all, women say "hey these old lyrics are pretty misogynistic" and his response is "f-- you btches, f-- you hoes, go listen to the song. ill start being misogynistic again idc" ...awful response.
Why do people even make "Jokes" at the expense of others and then get mad when the affected party doesn't like it. Why doesn't he makes jokes about himself getting raped?
A lot of y'all can't say it so I will. Tyler isn't mad at Taylor's fans for being r*cist he's mad that he's not a white man. He's mad that they can even use his blackness against him. He's angry that he himself can't be both r*cist and misogynistic. He'd love to be a caucasian man. Only... Imagine how the world would react if he was a wm and made a "satirical" album about lynching a bunch of people and going on a tirade of g*nocide ... I'm sure people would accept that it's just a joke right...right? The truth is a lot of bm love systems of power ... they just don't like that they're at the bottom of them.
@@vivi-ws9yl A lot of y'all can't say it so I will. Tyler isn't mad at Taylor's fans for being r*cist he's mad that he's not a white man. He's mad that they can even use his blackness against him. He's angry that he himself can't be both r*cist and misogynistic. He'd love to be a caucasian man. Only... Imagine how the world would react if he made a "satirical" album about lynching a bunch of people and going on a tirade of g*nocide ... I'm sure people would accept that it's just a joke right...right?
@@vivi-ws9yl not defending the edgy line, but it wouldnt make sense if made about himself...and it was just a edgy joke told to be edgy, nobody is going after eminem even though he has had PLENTY of edgy lines worse than that.
As a huge tyler fan for like the last 7 years, yeah this is how it should be viewed. You cant make lyrics designed to outrage and envoke shock and anger and then get mad and call the audience racist when said lyrics shock and outrage like be fr
@ yeah both sides are also in the wrong however he generalised taylors audience (as pointed out in the video) meaning only a small minority of her fanbase were being weird and racist whereas the vocal majority did provide valid criticism (such as the "??????" 💀)
the thing is it's not just his awful lyrics but those tweets too and the way he's acting and the fact that said some of those horrible things on video too
him calling them racist isn't an attempt to invalidate their claims, these claims are nothing new. Tyler's statement was made in response to people bringing up past lyrics that have been talked about for 6 years. No serious fan of him is defending the lyrics, they are disgusting, but bringing up these lyrics to devalue his recent achievements will obviously invoke anger. Tyler has been called out, cancelled, and isolated because of these lyrics, already. What is the point of cancelling someone and then ignoring their growth. That's not justice, people don't get convicted twice for the same thing. Should all of Jelly Roll's success be invalid because he was a drug dealer and a robber?
@ yeah theres a reason everyone tried to forget about early tyler...and current tyler should do the same, threatening to go back to it doesnt show much maturity or growth and is just really fuckin weird
Wait but can we also acknowledge how racist Taylor swift fans are? The racism I’ve received from “swifties” are akin to the racism I’ve received from “tRumpers” fr
There's literally no doubt that her fans is racist. But Taylor Swift doesn't control her fans. Even if she say "stop bullying people!" to her fans, you think they're gonna stop? Taylor Swift never said anything bad about Tyler, she never tweeted anything about Tyler. Yet, he choose to drag her instead of her toxic fans. It's ridiculous.
I agree but I don't think what happened to Tyler was racism, the Swifties just reacted after Taylor was attacked by his fans and she (most of them at least) simply didn't touch his skin color...
As a person struggling a lot with intrusive thoughts, it’s fucking insulting to see people excuse this behavior. You don’t choose to have intrusive thoughts but you choose what you do with them and writing rape’y slop about an actual human being is definitely not the right move
@@Chris-rj4bt yeah but not to the extent of someone with OCD for example which is probably why they said that. people with OCD can struggle with intrusive thoughts more frequently than the average occasional intrusive thought.
@@Chris-rj4btI mean it in a more clinical context, since people are mentioning Tyler’s OCD. There’s a difference between every day intrusive thoughts and those caused by mental illness and the latter is often much more difficult to deal with
Why do people think it's ok to excuse someone of making a r@p€ comment bc of their age? So if a teen SA someone then it should be dismissed bc "they are young"???
i have never forgotten the selena gomez rape threats tyler tweeted SEVERAL times, waiting for her to turn 18 like a creep. those tweets are completely unhinged. not excusable at all. + his many rapey lyrics... just disgusting
@@GoatedPharrell Did you watch the video? Because if you've got a link to an apology that D'Angelo couldn't find that actually spoke about the issues and was an actual coherent apology (not a vague lyric), I'm sure everyone would be really excited to see it!
@@BearMas he said he apologized to her in person what more do you need a video 😂✌ grow up and stop acting like that stuff was unkown media goblin is huge and fire too you are acting like a baby 😂✌😂✌
16:17 this! I'm a firm believer that it's okay to like art with problematic themes and art made by questionable people. But it's also okay to be uncomfortable with that. I think the internet in general has got to get better about just letting multiple opinions exist. Sometimes there isn't a correct take, sometimes multiple takes are correct, etc..
No it’s not, because when you do you are financially supporting said people, there’s no “art is separate from the artist”, you are funding their lifestyle and thus condoning their actions…
@ once again, you have not explained how fictional actions contribute to real life harm. Nor have you explained how liking fiction with those elements inherently means supporting them.
The amount of men who have threatened Taylor Swift with r*pe is unhinged. I'm starting to see where Swifties are coming from when they accuseTaylor Swift haters of being misogynistic, even though I personally can't stand Taylor or her fans.
@An_awesomeduckhere Now when Swifties made fun of Katty Perry for having a mental breakdown that was funny. Also when they criticized her for working with Dr Luke but never said a thing about Taylor working with David O Russell
i’d understand if you were whining about it in 09/2011 but we literally have seen how he’s evolved and matured but ur still mad for absolutely no reason. I get what ur saying but really no reason to get mad about this specifically, especially in times like these where ur rights are at stake😂 stop worrying about what this bi black dude was doing 15 years ago
you’re just playing into the hands of the swifties it’s a fucking defamation campaign practically. yk how much more nasty shit there is to worry about then tyler
Great to live in a world where you get more shit for having a problem with sexual harassment than the actual sexual harassment. I really don't care about what the harasser "truly feels inside" or if they have "grown", the people defending the behavior are still proving the point even in 2024.
@eggskrodi5222 If we're going to hold people accountable for racist, homophobic, etc tweets they made in the past. I think the same can be said for violently misogynistic tweets, and lyrics, that someone is still profiting from and referencing to this day...
oh! I guess I really am normal about his music. I’m never going to touch his old stuff (goblin, bastard, etc) but I like his newer stuff and I want to continue listening to it. Thank you for actually pointing this out dude, W video.
people using the age excuse are boring. i'm 19. most of my friends are 19. we know not to "joke" or to write lyrics about rape. when i was 18 i knew not to joke about that. when i was 16 i knew not to joke about that. hell, when i was 10 i knew not to joke about that. if a 19 year old is adult enough to drive a car, vote, and (in most countries) legally buy alcohol, then they are adult enough to know that rape is wrong and shouldn't be joked about
My name is Sarah and in 2011 I was 13. There was a boy in my 8th grade class that would write the lyrics of that song in my notebooks and on slips of paper and give it to me and it was genuinely so fucking scary. It was the same boy who would sexually harass me on a regular basis by groping me. I like Tyler’s new music but some accountability on his part would be great
it's insane how people will excuse stuff because of "fiction" as if life and art aren't constantly influencing each other. encouraging something in a fictional setting will, if the work in question gains traction, always spill over into real life. as a public figure your words hold so much weight and imo you have (at least in public settings and in your art) a certain resposibility, to at least not actively make the world a worse place..
If you want to listen to a problematic artist, I can't stop you, I listen to some problematic artists too. Don't pretend that their behavior is okay though.
This is one of only a few sane statement within this video and its comment section. Aside from calling out and harassing T.Swift & Selener, Tyler didn’t really do anything wrong. What he was saying back then was definitely unsettling, but this holier than thou attitude is just so weird, totally unnecessary, and frankly pretty annoying. Simply avoid it if you don’t like it, and don’t try to play like he’s hurting anyone by saying stupid things
@@BlooBoi23”holier than thou” and what we’re talking about is rape. Look i can tell you’re a male, so this kind of stuff doesn’t bother you, but it DOES bother women. This is the kind of shit we have to worry about when we go out alone, especially at night, and for tyler to rap about it like this is deeply wrong and disturbing.
Black female fan who was in highschool when I first heard goblin. I was dealing with depression from CSA, and listening to those song when they freshly came out made me feel justified in my anger and hatred of people. I was bullied heavily and came home to some traumatic stuff as well. Me and my best friend at the time would drive around in my car blasting those songs. Now, in 31, I work in children's mental health after years of therapy and self work. I think as and old tyler fan, because I dealt with my pain and grew up, I imprinted that onto tyler. It's kinda sad to see a glimpse of that old "character" thar he swore wasn't really him. As for my friend who also listen to him, someone I was connect to at the hip, she got addicted to heroin and moved away. I don't know if she's alive. I last got a response from her 4 years ago. All this rambling to say music is powerful, and in the wrong headspace it can make awful thoughts fester. If their are any kiddos reading this who are dealing with abuse, depression, bullying, there are people here to help who won't judge you. You don't have to suffer. Be careful what you're taking in when your thoughts are dark. It will get better.
I am a big Tyler fan but I do not condone his misogynist past. He made vile and grotesque comments. That being said, there were some Swifites out there who were being racist to him and that doesn't make the situation better. Call him out without being racist.
So much violent misogyny is constantly normalized, it’s wild. Exhausting just trying to engage with media (and people) just to be reminded of my own traumatic experiences, even if all I was trying to do was take a walk with my dog. And as D’Angelo talks about, when we respond normally and are offended / hurt / bothered, we are told we need to just shut up and calm down.
Men will never understand what it was like growing up as a teenage girl and hearing boys scream Tyler's lyrics during school. Literally hearing r*p3 threats across the classroom. It was hell.
And those same men will act like men's emotions are stigmatized while they blatantly demean and degrade any woman for having any reaction. They have to create some bizarro opposite world where women are extremely privileged to justify their treatment and views of us as being some form of justice rather than being plain old misogynists, a norm since the dawn of humanity.
Your gonna have to get used to it because there no way your gonna be able to control anyone’s speech and ultimately humor will always come from trauma so you will always have people making fucked up jokes
@@PBM_from_The_J you don't know if he did it or not.He simply could I we wouldn't know, but writing a rape slop and then saying he grew up by being normal is just fucking dumb
@@PBM_from_The_J Sorry my guy, but he did do sexual harassment, that's literally what he was doing on Twitter, constitutes as sexual harassment. If you're a sex pest you suck no matter what
Women are tired!! We are so tired!! We’ve experienced thousands of years of being treated as less than human, we don’t need songs about killing and raping us on the charts in the modern era. I don’t want to hear that shit on the radio. I don’t want those messages out there. I just want to be a person. The fact that men don’t understand this baffles me. Our horrific lived experiences should not be jokes or edgy stories for you. Edit: for all the people with no thinking ability, I am not specifically talking about Tyler here. Jesus Christ
You guys do not even understand the situation at hand. Tyler stopped writing the murdery rapey songs IN 2011, there are no songs about that currently charting. It’s fine if you don’t want to listen to or support him bc of his old stuff, that’s fine, but the stuff on his new album is a genuine evolution from his edgelord phase, i.e. hey Jane and judge Judy
@@laylam9997 where did I say they were currently on the charts?? Where did I specifically mention Tyler once? Tyler is far from the only one. Male artists put out rapey and extremely sexist songs all the time and a lot of them get really popular. But thank you sm for trying to discount a woman who is upset about sexism being so normalized even today.
@@Camass33”songs about killing and raping us on the charts in the modern era” + the video is about tyler and you’re… commenting on it im not trying to discount your point bc i don’t disagree with you, im pointing out an inaccuracy in your statement which you shouldn’t have a problem with if you really want nuance
@@laylam9997 I’m sorry you made an incorrect assumption about what I was saying 💀 what I said relates to Tyler and was inspired by the video yeah but it’s not specifically about him and him alone. Many many many men do it and get away with it. Why are you arguing if you don’t disagree with me. My comment was about male artists who do that shit in general. If it was about Tyler specifically i would have said his name. And I did say those songs are on the charts in the modern era but I didn’t say HIS songs.
@@laylam9997 We are talking about how sketchy he sounds before. It doesn't matter how he's "changed" or whatever, that doesn't erase the fact that he is a sketchy moron, way back until now.
Hard disagree. I don’t believe Tyler was saying that Bastard and Goblin are beyond criticism. He is pushing back at the fact that many Swifties are bringing up his old lyrics simply to tear him down because they are angry and not because they actually care about the things he said in 2011. While Tyler may have never made one big clear cut apology for the things he has said, i believe he is at the point where his music speaks for itself for how much he has changed and he loves his old music because as messed up as it is, it was a stepping stone in his journey as a musician and those albums serve as time capsules of this journey (thus the “energy” tyler is referring too when talking about bastard). People are directing criticism at Tyler in 2024 for shit he said in 2011, when the criticism should be (rightfully) directed at Bastard and Goblin. Just because those albums haven’t changed, doesn’t mean Tyler hasn’t. The only reason the criticism is going to Tyler himself is because a very angry group of swift fans need to find something to shoot at him, when he hasn’t done anything even remotely bad or offensive in the last decade. Tyler’s old music is (in my opinion) rubbish and super unnecessarily offensive. The albums have aged like milk. But it seems like no matter how much Tyler apologises and moves away from his past, people who dislike him always use it as a crutch to hate on him. His old music is in incredibly poor taste, but I just don’t understand what people expect him to do about. Also you literally proved that some Taylor Swift fans have made racist tweets about him, proving his point. He at no point said all Taylor Swift fans are racist. Just that some racist taylor swift fans have been bringing up his old work as a way to hate on him because he surpassed their fav artist for like literally three days 😭
EXACTLY! I think a lot of people who got into his music through his more serious recent work go back to his old music with those same expectations. I agree his old music is horrible, but he was an edgy and emotionally stunted young man who got an incredible amount of attention for saying those things. Him and Odd Future were a group of unserious trolls who all eventually matured and thats why the group was short lived. Also a lot of people in the comments are treating his music like he means every sexist word he said in bastard and goblin, yet ignoring all the feminist things he has said in CMIYGL and Chromakopia. Like “Hey Jane” is literally a pro choice song and most of his love songs for women are about how perfect they are.
THANK YOU FOR WRITING EVERYTHING OUT AND USING YOUR BRAIN! Literally saw someone say the criticism he’s getting should outweigh the racism because “not all swifties are racist”.. he shouldnt have to excuse any racism no matter how big or small tf?? He was obviously addressing the boneless hate and racism he got for being better than taylor. And people dont understand his growth; he is confident and assured in himself and his growth that he doesnt feel the need to continue to shame his past. No sane tyler fan praises the lyrics in goblin or bastard or even cherry bomb.
He hasn't changed at all he literally said don't bring the old me. So that will bring his old self if he wants. Also people can criticize his song as long as it's available on Spotify and his official yt channel. Also he even said Goblin and bastard great in his recent interview. Also all the racist tweet got less than 100 like
@@rd3munna812 Dude, don’t bring the old me as in “Don’t bring up the old me”. He is saying to not bring up his old self and who he was before. Do you think he is threatening to start rapping about eating and killing people again???
No because if we're holding influencers accountable for saying racist things years ago, we need to hold him accountable for past violent misogyny too. This isnt okay. Idgaf if it was supposed to be a "character," you still had those thoughts in your head and felt like it was acceptable to say it publicly. And i can't stand Taylor Swift, for the record.
People truly pick and choose when it comes to holding others accountable for their past actions. I used to do the same with artists + celebrities I worshipped. It's such a slippery slope, to be honest. On one hand, we have people questioning whether or not we should call out these actions because of Tyler's growth over the years. On the other hand, we have those on the in and outside looking in, saying we should call out these actions regardless of growth.
@@cultwonyoif you put it online at any point, you made the decision to allow others to hold you accountable. Splashing every fcked up thought that crosses your mind across the internet is wild to me...if someone hates another human or group of humans enough to say the things that people are being cancelled for this year, they deserve to be held accountable. Yonkers was my first Tyler the creator experience, when it came out. Leading me to explore all his old tracks, and they're MESSED up. We have to stop making allowances for horrible people because we like some of the things they create. Allowing them a platform to influence others, particularly young people, is absolute insanity.
@@rebeccasteinke4357 I 100% agree. When I was younger, I'd excuse problematic behaviors of celebrities and artists I followed. Hell, I find myself doing it at times as a 20-year-old. However, if we can't call out these individuals, how on earth are they expected to grow? It's also important for us to remember that it is not our responsibility to convince them to "change." They HAVE to be willing to put forth that effort.
@@rebeccasteinke4357tyler was never truly “a horrible person” he said half that shit to get attention for his music and expecting him to condemn the music he made as a youngin trying to chase his dream with a bitter worldview due to his situation growing up is crazy.
@@eggskrodi5222 well he's definitely not a good person if you're constantly talking about wanting to rape various women. Doesn't matter if it's a "joke" or some bs like that, things like rape need to be taken seriously or else the victims of said crimes suffer the consequences. He should learn that what he said was disgusting af. To not do so shows you either don't care about the crime and rape victims, you're a misogynist, or you're both
I’m a queer POC swiftie and I absolutely have seen really horrible racist and bigoted comments in defence of Taylor Swift on twitter way too many times, but misogynists really say absolutely disgusting stuff about swifties and Taylor Swift, a group of millions, and justify it when they’re called out by using a minority that most of us would love if they left the fandom. Like you can take accountability without misogyny, and you can call out racism and bigotry without misogyny too.
@@d1mbz because usually people excuse queer men behavior a lot all because they're not straight so they can have ,,pass" (I think, not sure, but saw comments talking about it before)
I´m so sick and tired of men using violence against women as a punchline, it is degrading, overused, unfunny and frankly terrifying. What I hate even more is when they turn around and say "It's just a joke", "You don't get it" or "It was a character". Like at least own up to it
@@notamurderer6226 It's a problem that all women in the world can relate to. You cannot just act like these feelings aren't valid or based on important issues that need to be spoken about. You're not funny or cool for saying this. Not at all.
Agree with you on the 'it's not real' defense being used weirdly. The lyrics are still incredibly unhinged and uncomfortable for me, a fan of extreme horror. Taylor Swift is an actual person, bringing her into your batshit insane, borderline sexual fantasy, 'satire' song lyrics goes far beyond a simple fictional narrative. You are directly involving this person and their identity in your attention-seeking bullshit. I'm not even a swiftie and I find this shit really disturbing
Then again, this comment invalidates that a new Tyler, in 2024, who is also an actual person also exists. While I would agree with this comment in 2011 I think we're far beyond that. I do disagree with Tyler telling swifties to listen to Tron Cat, it just kind of invalidates all the progress he's made as a human being.
@Lamellae I would agree with you if he hadn't mentioned on several recent occasions that he still likes the music he used to make. Him saying that his fans could bring the 'old' him out in a jovial fashion shows that he hasn't really matured. I like Tyler as an artist, but he needs to grow tf up
@@TextbookSadass I try to see it as Tyler appreciating his old music from a production standpoint rather than agreeing with the things he said back then. As a producer, he’s probably more proud of his growth in production skills than his growth as an artist overall. I do agree it’s immature not to clarify that he likes his old music purely for the production (and let’s hope that’s what he means, not the lyrics), but he’s mentioned multiple times that he dislikes some of his older songs production-wise, so I tend to stick with that perspective.
also are we forgetting his disgusting tweets threating Selena Gomez (also a real person) with rape MULTIPLE TIMES and saying it on video too waiting for her to turn 18, literally tweeting that horrible shit on her birthday. And not just her but the other women he mentioned like Miley Cyrus and Victoria Justice he also tweeted that awful shit exactly on their 18th birthday, once again including Selena Gomez and Dakota Fanning who was SIXTEEN at the time
It truly surprises me how the commodification of these people's art can be so reductionist to maintain a perceived conflict between marginalized groups with the same enemy.
As a Swiftie, I can admit there absolutely is a racism problem in a segment of the fandom. But geez, those lyrics are awful, full stop. It’s way worse than the Kanye lyrics in Famous, and we all know how that situation went down.
@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801they literally never said that and nobody in their right mind is saying it either, both are bad and we should address both. i say this as a tyler fan who has heard like 5 taylor swift songs my whole life. what tyler did is bad and he shouldn’t have excuses made for him (especially with his remarks implying he still stands by the behavior), and being racist to him in response is also bad and there’s no excuse for that. neither one undoes the other.
@@thesayerofthelaw ICP writes horrorcore without mentioning real life people like Tyler did or talking about r@pe which is why their horrorcore music is actually good. plus like you mentioned they actually have morals and denounce predators.
edgy lyrics not only reflect society and how when men "break" it *has* to involve violence against women, it allows men to continue to blame any problems of society they deem fit on women. a lot of the times their anger at the world just completely removes the ability to see women as people. and the thing is, i get it, we literally all get wanting to go crazy and tear everything down in your rage against a world that doesn't feel right. but we need to acknowledge that for a society to become better men need to stop weaponizing violence and sexual violence against the perceived threat of The Female. him standing ten toes down on his older art just shows that he is not interested in doing that work!
also like, not to give a point to the redditors but it is really frustrating to see people only care about misogyny when it's within the scope of fandom drama 😮💨 if people cared more maybe he would have been properly pressed and held accountable before rumors of an apology ballooned as big as it did
@@Ivyrigs sorry to say, but your comment is completely irrelevant to mine. the issue of the dehumanization of The Female does not start and stop with tyler specifically; it's a pervasive mentality that plagues all of us under patriarchy that requires challenging **constantly**. the desire to sexually subjugate surfaces when upset at a woman (or someone socially deemed feminine enough to deserve the same treatment e.g. j. bieber) is the norm but it should not be normal. if tyler wants to grow as a person and an artist he needs to understand this and his art should reflect it.
I'm old enough to remember his whole beef with Tegan and Sara because Sara called out his homophobic/sexist language. It got nasty, and then he came out with Sara.
It's honestly crazy how far people will go to defend someone even when there is nothing to defend😭😭 being talented doesn't equal being absolved from any criticism!!
@@ScaryRyai i think people should stop pissing themselves over the lyrics (besides the taylor one that ones weird asf) but there are very real things to criticize, did you not see the part where dangelo showed his tweets about selena/taylor/etc?
As an SA survivor, ever since I found out about his past I refuse to support him even tho I did like some of his music. The threats he made were similar to the ones my assaulter made against me. It is NEVER ok, no matter how young you are or if you genuinely believe it or not, to threaten to r@pe someone. Also, as someone who does have intrusive thoughts, I’m fcking sick of the intrusive thoughts argument. You have to be responsible about your thoughts and actions regarding to them. Once you start profiting from them, you aren’t being responsible. I’m so sick of this sh*t and people excusing it instead of recognizing that someone you like has done fcked up things.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I got sick to my stomach seeing this, I can't imaging how survivors must feel. Hope you're doing something to make you feel better today. Even if it's just watching a silly movie or smth. Lots of love ♥
@Sing_A_Rebel_Song Now when Tyler said the he wanted to kill Bruno Mars that was fine that was okay. Because it was directed to a man and as we know murder is not real.
"Rape jokes are just edgy humor for teen boys" "Nobody ever takes male sexual violence seriously, especially teenagers" ... why do people keep missing the link here and blaming the lack of support for boys and men on women and girls? Half of y'all literally arguing that it's okay for teenagers to joke about it until you know for sure they did it. Maybe bc all these boys hear about what happened to them is as jokes. Maybe all their friends joke about it so much, that they can't talk about it even in a serious moment without becoming the butt of someone's "edgy joke" that humiliates and shames them for surviving hell. Maybe they don't trust anyone that jokes like this to speak around, and so they don't. Treating this kind of behavior as a granted as a rite of passage for boys only ensures they stay hurt and unhealed while everyone goes through their DARVO phase, and MAYBE eventually "grows out of" talking like and making the same humor as actual rapists. Maybe. Or maybe they stay stuck with a bunch of men and women caping for celebrities and excusing the same sick shit non-famous people did to them, so hard, they still won't want to speak up. It happened to my best friend in HS and all the "edgy" humor did was hurt him and make him feel like what he went through wasn't serious enough to report. It was, though. I'm sorry I was ever part of that, Nick, if you ever see this. You didn't deserve that. The "jokes" weren't worth your peace and friendship, and you were right to dip on all of us. We may have "changed" but your pain didn't and you don't owe any of us second chances,regardless of how difference we think we are.
right, I’m a huge Tyler fan but I don’t rly listen to his first 2 albums bc of the vulgar lyrics and I think he’s wrong for what he wrote. I’m glad he’s matured though and stopped all that edgy nonsense.
Which mostly has been the case. It’s just the people calling him out aren’t doing it for their own morality and outrage, it’s swifties mad that Tyler got a higher spot than her for A DAY
@@kagexharaz yea as a huge tyler fan now, it make me wonder why he thought it was a good idea to even reference that bs on stage in this age. why not just say, yeaaa this taylor swift shit is lame, i dont really care im just here for the art or some shit
I like how people are in the comments saying hes changed and rejected the Goblin album as a whole like there isn't a clip of him telling people to go listen to one of the songs from said album. Definitely a sign of growth
he literally says in manfiesto ‘internet bringing old lyrics up like i hide the sh*t. whats your address? i could probably send you a copy b*itch’ like whether hes changed or not he doesnt seem to care about the public’s criticism regardless
I think what he means w that is that "yeah I made that stuff. I was an edgelord, I don't hide it" Like he grew and moved on but it's doesn't think hiding his old stuff is necessary
@@Coconut_Prrson That is a perceptive that makes sense I guess but what do you think of him saying that he can bring back the old Tyler? Is that still him acknowledging his past in your eyes?
The double standards are INSANEE, imagine if a white woman wrote racist lyrics, claimed they were just "a character", and then whined about sexism. That would NEVER EVER fly. Her music would be 100% removed from spotify. Hell, Taylor got shit for saying she wants to live in a world without racism for reasons I still cannot comprehend, and is still getting shit for extremely mildly homophobic lyrics from when she was 17 that *weren't even released*.
Ehh idk about this argument… there are plenty examples of white women abusing their racial privilege over black men. Most famous examples of this are Emmett Till and the Central Park five. Also holding the oppression Olympics is pointless…. Trying to calculate whether white women or black men have it worse in society ultimately does nothing to fix the problem of misogyny or racism. Let’s just treat it all as bad and call it out when we see it.
I agree with u, thank u for ur comment. people don't care about sexism, even the men who claim to be leftist or liberal, they will still excuse it, but they will not excuse racism or anti gay stuff which is good but it should be for sexism too. I am genuinely tired of this hypocrisy.
This is true. This is why Tyler got banned from several countries when he released this album. I genuinely hate how this video and everyone is ignoring that fact that for years Tyler has distanced himself from this body of work and was actually cancelled for it. No one condoned anything he did and we’re all suffering from memory loss
There is so little nuance in these takes. Why are we attacking tyler when there are hundreds of other artists from every era that have made songs about rape, necrophilia, human sacrifice, murder, etc and they aren't criticized because they aren't popular enough to have any attention on them. I can respect if people have a problem with these lyrics. I just don't understand how we are being so choosy about who we go after. Tyler wasn't just making that music because he thought it was edgy. That came from a dark place and I think we can all understand that translating feelings into art is far better than actually doing bad things to other people or yourself. I've seen lyrics just as outrageous from the grunge and punk scene but we're just going to ignore it because they have 500 listeners on spotify. It is very possible that Tyler associates goblin as one of the good parts of a dark time in his life. Just as Taylor is still a person, Tyler is also still a person, and we don't know who that is. He is very private about his real life and his public one is a persona. He may have matured publicly but he is very likely still struggling through traumatic times in his life. We don't know. I think we are holding both of this celebrities to a standard that no normal human being could live up to. Worse things are said by comedians on a regular basis and yet because tyler isn't professionally a "Comedian" we are going to raise our pitchforks? It just doesn't add up to me. Goblin was a work of art and it was a fiction, There were many characters and the themes revolved around depression, suicide, anger management issues and many more dark topics. It genuinely is an interesting piece of work if difficult to listen to. If Gorgoroth made the same album no one would bat an eye. Not trying to defend what he said. I just think that we are not approaching this subject with any nuance. D'Angelo's video has nuance, i may not personally agree with everything he says, but he doesn't make it out to be Good vs Evil. These comments on the other hand are an insane echo chamber
Respectfully, as a woman, I disagree. Mental health / trauma does not ever excuse bad behaviour. I’d absolutely prefer if everyone got called out when saying horrible stuff like this. One famous person is at least a good start. I simply cannot see rape threats from a forgiving perspective. Not from Tyler, not from anyone. I hope you see where I’m coming from.
Something about this whole situation makes me think of eminem tbh. Like its clearly different, but also the hardcore defense of disgusting and misogynistic lyrics in these songs is wild
I like Eminem's old stuff because I could relate to him rebelling against a world he felt abandoned him. The lyrics were him basically giving a giant middle finger to the world. However, I will admit. Eminem being like 50 and rapping like he's Shady on The Death of Slim Shady sounds like actual sh!t. Eminem is not Slim Shady and Tyler the Creator is not Wolf Hailey.
I completely agree with this! I think that its really fucked that Tyler said that, and more fucked to not acknowledge it. Acting like people are dumb for bringing it up is really fucking gross imo. I dont think that completely disregarding someone as a monster for stuff they said years ago is still a bit much. I understand being turned off by it but people acting like he is the same person now then he was then is really disingenuous. I personally cannot listen to his old albums, just because how disgusting the lyrics are, but listening to his newest album really does show the growth
I'm so glad people are calling out more Hip Hop artists for saying problematic nonsense for years. As a black man, it always made me feel alienated from the genre since 's even the most acclaimed rappers have SA allegations or are just bigoted ass holes. This genre doesn't make me feel seen. It's obscene.
It's nice to hear such a perspective from a man as well. Of course the misogyny is more obvious to women, but men can see it and dislike it if they're truly allies to fellow women, which anyone should be (and vice versa). It's of course the bare minimum, but also a rare minimum, so it makes me happy to see comments like yours :)
THANK YOU!!! It's the anti-Stan effect. People are so ready to hate Taylor and her fans that they're willing to overlook valid criticism of someone else if it gives them the opportunity to dunk.
Ehh sort of. I feel like swifties calling Tyler the creator for tweets that are obviously disgusting when she was, as recent as a year or two ago, was actively dating a man who had the same sentiments about black women (Matty Healy). I agree that Tyler the creators tweets and lyrics were disgusting and abhorrent. There’s not excuse whatsoever. This could’ve been an important conversation for everyone to have in regards to criticizing him at any point so why did this start up as soon as Tyler’s album passed up Taylor’s?
as a tyler fan you will NOT catch me defending or even listening to goblin edit: just want to clarify there's nothing wrong with liking goblin (AS LONG AS you understand some of the lyrics are insane and it's possible to enjoy a song while still criticizing said song's lyrics) it just isn't for me personally
exactly! fans of artists need to understand that you can criticize your fav, hate some of their songs, disagree with some of their actions, etc. and STILL like them and be fans of them. you don’t have to like everything your fav does. and it’s totally okay to dislike or even hate certain things they do. this is coming from a tyler fan as well
@@GoatedPharrellnobody thinks he’s being serious, but not being serious or being a character doesn’t just give you the ability to say whatever you want and no one can criticize you for it. to me there’s a level of tact and purpose you need with taboo subjects that those 3 albums don’t have. TL;DR that’s cool you think goblin is amazing, i don’t.
Yup. But he came up at a time when it was ok to say that so he's protected by millennial nostalgia. If you come for him, people will see it as coming for millennial values. As a millennial, I never f-ed with him. That same strategy was used to excuse R. Kelly's behavior for years until it couldn't be ignored. Artists are allowed to explore dark avenues in their art, just be prepared for the consequences for the rest of your life. Probably why Van Gogh wasn't trying to hear it 😂
@@acciousername6776 They were having those conversations back in the late 90s, and that’s how Eminem got the persona of “the rapper that scares your parents”. Those conversations already happened, and if anything, it only made him more popular
Imagine defending him bc “he’s a creative genius” or “was a teenager” as if he was a small infant child writing trash like this from his play pen or something lmaooo insane💀
Nobody who actually struggles with intrusive thoughts will not only write that down, but sing it and publicize it. Intrusive thoughts come from shame that’s why we struggle to talk about it and admit it. I don’t understand the fandom’s excuses related to his OCD
I 100% support growing as a person, changing, and becoming a better person. I support forgiving people for things they have done in the past. I think society can only ever benefit from that. But taking accountability and being genuinely remorseful for past actions is the only way to build a bridge to that. If he has genuinely changed and regrets these things, he would not be doing this shit. If you love someone, you should be holding them accountable because you want to see them become a better person, as D'Angelo is doing here. Your idols, and also people in your own life, are flawed people, and the kindest thing you can do is let them know when they are fucking up and/or going down the wrong path. I speak from personal experience.
@@daniv8500 He Has Already Apologized............. Years Ago, This Is Old Drama That Keeps Being Brought Up, He Is Clearly Sick Of Having To Talk About Things He Did 14 Years Ago That He Already Has Moved On From And Changed From, Swifties Were Calling Him A Monkey And Other Racial Slurs
This deserves more likes, if you want to truly grow as a person and if you want others to grow and change as people, you have to stop it at it's source and let them know when they're going down a bad road and encourage them to stop That's the problem with a lot of groups online, they don't want to stop the behavior as it's happening, they'd rather wait until everyone's drowning in garbage to call it out so they can push some performative retribution and isolate them from everyone This is not a defense of Tyler specifically, I think it's whack that he's threatening to "go back to the goblin era" as if he hasn't learned anything, this is a much bigger systemic issue that needs to be addressed Also, it's disgusting that people use one minority group to attack another, I get that Tyler's lyrics are vile, but don't be racist towards him, same way that you shouldn't attack LGBT people to denounce racism and vice versa
the most important thing you can do as a fan of someone is to be able to criticize them and acknowledge their wrongdoings.Tyler is my favorite artist of all time, Igor is my favorite album ever, i’ve had CHROMAKOPIA on repeat all week, but I can’t get into any of his pre-wolf stuff mostly because of the lyrics. the only songs i re listen to there are yonkers and she. its very unhealthy behavior to attempt to defend everything people do so you just gotta admit when something’s wrong.
exactly!! you don’t have to agree or like everything your fav does! i feel like stan culture and fan wars have people bending their morals to defend their fav left and right. being able to acknowledge that your fav did something wrong is so important and not a skill many people on the internet practice today
@@Womster u spitting but i can’t help but like goblin because i genuinely don’t see it as anything other than a character and i like the edginess it’s like meta and cringe but in a really good way. but he should NOW in this day and age be able to apologize to swift for speaking on her like that without bringing up her racist fans bec that has nothing to do with her, tbh fck taylor but either way id like to see tyler apologize honestly
i don’t think this would be as big of a discourse if he just didn’t use real people. something like Sarah is incredibly shocking but all of it’s a story and the girl is fictional, it does what it sets out to do, once you bring selena gomez and taylor swift into it then it becomes bigger than the music and it’s really gross
I think the biggest problem I have with Tyler in this situation is that he really doesn’t have any reason about hyping up “the old me”. You can’t have this new era and moment of change when you threaten to return to your old ways like a super villain. It discounts it and makes it feel like he still feels the way he used to.
I do not really think he meant to say bring out the old me as in bring it out of myself, but more so, bring it out of my past to criticize it. I think its really poor phrasing
Threatening to go back to a behavior you denounced completely negates the denouncing of that behavior. 🤷 Edit: His growth FEELS like a face save, and he got tired of saving that face. I am not saying he is that way, I am simply saying that's the vibe.
It's always racists like you trying to put people down. Attacking a person's character repeatedly will get annoying. Every album drop people villainize tyler using his old songs and old tweets, so of course he will get tired of it and respond. Check your privilege
@@Fckthatgolfwang if he didnt want people attacking his character/morals, he shouldn't have made the song to begin with. Tyler has admitted multiple times that he made the song to be controversial, but now is upset that he is getting controversy? He got what he wanted. You reap what you sow.
I mean, it was very immature, but an offhand comment isn’t representative of him as a person. His past misogyny should absolutely be called out, but his actual growth shouldn’t be denoted. I’m not defending anything he has done, but it’s not like he’s been hiding a dark side because he said one misogynistic thing.
"It's just fiction" should never involve real people. Violent fantasies about real people is NOT the same thing as writing a violent fanfiction of characters that don't exist And when you DO write that fiction don't go "tee hee maybe!" if people ask about you being a rapist
it was involving popular musicians in the industry at the time. he hated the industry at the time, he was talking about like killing bruno mars and shi
@ SA against men/boys happens too yk… you must have a pretty one dimensional understanding of what he said/why he said those things. how about just appreciate the man he is now instead of expecting him to hate on his teen self who did what he had to do to get his career off the ground (in this case, rap about crazy shit for attention). Instead of deriving opinions from shock-value tweets and opinion videos made to entertain you more than anything else
Because he has never publicly denounced what he wrote in the past and tends to hide behind the fact that either he was young or it was all just for shock value. He seems like he’s matured, but has he really? Although he obviously doesn’t rap or talk about r*ping women anymore it’s kind of weird he’s still quick to defend himself rather than publicly acknowledge it was fucked up and not okay in hindsight.
yeah you're right about all this. I'm a huge tyler fan flower boy and later, and unless he like triples down on this shit I'm not going to feel bad for listening to him. but it's not his best moment, and if it's gonna make anyone angry and sick of listening to him, then go for it. valid. tyler needs to not be dumb about this shit, even if it messes with him.
I think a lot of people also just don’t care about women and misogyny. That’s why we don’t all finally acknowledge that “bitch” is an obvious misogynistic slur. Because that means we’d have to give up a word that feels so integral to so many communities and also general vernacular, which many people would rather not do, and instead continue perpetuating misogyny because it’s what’s most comfortable
Finally an actual well thought out comment that doesn't in any way shape or form act like the artist and his content is in any way okay. It's so problematic to treat the topics of rape and mysogyny the way our culture does, and it's the primary reason most victims don't come forward. And people are either way over desensitized, don't care, never felt it was that bad to begin with.... The comments on this video are honestly depressing, disheartening, and honest to God show such a severe detachment from the reality of how bad rape and misogyny are. Twas a very bad comment section to read today, because my own PTSD from rape... I just didn't expect to see so many men and women defending this artist and people like him, and their content... Sometimes it feels like it'll never get better, and there's actual regret that I didn't just take the pills after years of my own abuse... Seeing people act like this is just.... Why even bother when it'll never get better in society, and when people don't give enough of a shit about rape and abuse of women to even just act like it's actually bad. It'll never change, because society just accepts rape and abuse, and excuses it.
@@SomeoneIusedtoknow-s1f I'm really sorry that this comment section was so triggering to read through. It's really hard whenever you're reminded the sheer scale of rape culture. It's basically the "explaining water to a fish" analogy. We're so entrenched in it as a society that acknowledging its existence, or the fact that it's wrong and should be addressed, feels crazy and overblown to a majority of people. To be honest, I really don't talk to men these days. Too many midnight phone calls from friends telling me they were just raped and needed someone to talk to or somewhere to crash for the night. Ill watch men's youtube content, but thats it. I think it's most important to keep yourself safe, both physically and mentally. I didn't even bother to read through the comments on this video, because if they agreed with me then yay awesome, if they didn't then my faith in humanity to grow and improve would just dwindle further. My peace is too valuable to jeopardize with youtube comments. While we can't change the minds of society on our own, we can curate the company we keep and try to find as much solace and safety as we can. Stay safe and take care of yourself ❤️
i do agree that "bitch" is overall a harmful word to use, especially towards women, but what communities are you specifically referring to because that doesn't make sense to me
As a horrorcore fan myself the line he crossed was naming a real person, you don’t do that man that’s a harassment. Edit: And also the actual harassment I had not gotten to that part yet oh my god
exactly!! i personally have some really really awful intrusive thoughts, like actually disgusting stuff, and i’ve often written poems and shit about it and i’d probably write songs about it if i had any musical talent at all. i think it’s really interesting to chronicle those kind of things and the darker side of mental illness and stuff (feeling like you’re going crazy, feeling like someone/something is controlling you/your thoughts, feeling like a terrible person, imagining doing horrible things, etc etc), but bringing real people into it is where the line is. id never write about real people, even if they are in the intrusive thoughts i have. idk if tyler is actually writing about mental illness in the way i described or if he’s just doing edgy stuff, but i think it applies in general. i don’t like the idea of art/music being restricted by what’s palatable and non offensive because that’s just not what life is like and it’s not authentic, but you can’t bring real people into it and talk about doing awful things to them.
@@GoldenWreck "Maybe some did" so we are not even sure but we are going to pretend those people exist. I dont see most of you mentioning it in the comments so not so sure thats the case.
To all other tyler fans, as a long time tyler fan, including his goblin era stuff- he does not need you guys to defend him. It is indefensible, edgey, weird shit. You are not his friend, nor do you know him as a person so you have no reason to protect his image. In fact you could very well think he's a dickhead if you met him. If he wanted to be seen in a certain way, he would say it for himself.
"if you wanted to be seen a certain way he would have just said so himself" yeah he did on the album, that's what we're complaining about, D'Angelo basically ignoring that part
@@RenTalksAbout no, some of you guys are adding in extra stuff which he did not explicitly say. I've seen the defense a lot that he regrets the edgey stuff he said simply bc of that comment he made about goblin, but he never says that. To this day, even on the new album, he hasn't explicitly denounced everything. D'anfelo did not ignore the comments he made in the album, unless you're talking about another part that you wanna point out.
@@soloheroina "you adding extra stuff" my brother in Christ it's literally in the album. My problem is he is ignoring the context of the songs and acting like this is the stuff he would actually do which is stupid. Yes a lot of the stuff Tyler said in the past was overly edgy and yes there is literal things he said the show that he does not regret it the entirety of sorry not sorry it's really him saying yeah I don't care. But to act like he would actually do these things and accusing him of being a misogynist is dumb very very dumb especially when the album literally focuses on untreated mental health/dark intrusive thoughts and what happens with that get to ignored. You can argue he went too far with it that's fine but calling him a misogynist over this stuff when there's actual shitty people in the industry who are rapping about this stuff but being serious about it is ignorant in its own right which is what he was complaining about people doing to Halsey mere days ago he's doing to Tyler now. I'm not defending it Tyler because he's my favorite artist I'm criticizing D'Angelo because he handled this topic in the one of the worst ways you could and came off extremely hypocritical
this seems to be more about fandom wars rather than the artists at play. like i distinctly remember Tyler breaking down why he did all that 'horror core' stuff and why he grew out of it. it was due to how isolated he was when he was younger, with very little life experience. thats why it was all shock value & juvenile. as he grew up he obviously had a much more well experienced life.... thus, he could make music about way better subject matters. people that try to downplay his past as like 'oh it was just a joke' or whatever are obviously oversimplifying it. but there are dumb fans of everyone and everything.
my problem with how (some, not all) taylor swift fans are handling the situation is that a lot of them are being racist to tyler in response. i agree that he needs to be held accountable for his old lyrics and that they're really bad, but calling out misogyny by being racist is exactly how we get into situations like this.
i know right! it's so fucking disgusting, and it doesn't help the case at all. like, if you wanna make a valid point, maybe don't be a dick in the process? people will most likely dismiss the critic because of the way you are choosing to deliver it
@@the-postal-dude We should absolutely talk about Tyler’s old lyrics. Even if he’s rapping about a fictional scenario, the way he treats sensitive subjects matters. By framing serious topics as casual or using them as “throwaway” lines, he risks trivializing real issues and reducing them to edgy punchlines. Art, especially in music, isn’t created in a vacuum; every line contributes to a larger cultural narrative. When an artist like Tyler, who has such a significant following, raps about violence, misogyny, or other charged themes without thoughtful context, it can seem as though these issues are unimportant or worth laughing off.
the problem is he’s already held himself accountable, he says he doesnt like his past lyrics and has called them (as well as the people who condone them) edgy as hell. this never had to be a drama, but people tend to do this whenever he drops an album
eminem has gotten away with some crazy lyrics as well the shit he said about brittany spears and miley cyrus ect was insane even for the time. glad people are starting to face backlash for making rape threats to people
The Marshall mathers lp is one of the greatest albums in hip hop history, where there’s a lyric about r@ping his own mother. Goes to show the if the music is great, people won’t care.
I never really cared about Tyler’s edgy stuff because I knew he was doing it for shallow attention and to shock people, and Swifties do indeed have a bit of a racism problem. But I do think he messed up a bit by teasing that Swifties would “bring back the old me”. He’s implying he hasn’t truly grown as a person and is capable of just taking off that mask and being immature again… while performing and promoting an album that centers around being your true self and a character that wears a mask. Then again, he’s self-admittedly a troll so I would take all of this with a grain of salt. Maybe it was just in the heat of the moment, I don’t know.
@Senchi3 Yeah like I said, lots of Swifties kept calling him shit related to monkeys and other animals even after his statement about their racism, I don’t blame him for that
I'm literally like "y'all he is trolling", he is literally contemplating continuing his career right now and people think he is gonna return to his most disliked era. It's obvious he doesn't mean it.
as a swift and tyler fan, it is disappointing to see this collide. rape isn't a shock factor, it will always be grotesque. racism is awful, but don't threaten rape.
@@draineweYT literally i been saying it was just a heat of the moment thing and id respond the same way as him with all the insane names they’ve been calling him 😭
Nah I’m sorry but even with an “apology” how’re you 19 and talking about raping and beating women like it’s cool. This isn’t rocket science, this isn’t even basic empathy, you already know what consent is by the time you’re like six at the latest
14 years ago……. Are people capable of change? Or here’s the better question, are people ALLOWED to change? And ah yes, my parents sat me down at the ripe age of 6 years old to discuss sex and consent. Fuck off.
I don't know if you wrote the first question as in "how can someone think contrary to this" but it can also be read as a genuine question. I suspect you mean the first but if so, might need some clarification.
Its topics like this that make me glad that I deactivated my Twitter. No one is right here. Tyler can't lower all criticism down to racism and bring up one of his WORST eras. Tyler fans can't downplay everything they've seen and show no receipts to "apologies". Swifties can't act like there aren't actual racist people in their group using this time to be racist. Everyone did something wrong. I just want to enjoy Chromakopia man
@@b19wing_inslowmotionwhat? Are people not supposed to call out horrible behavior with receipts now? You just want mere accusations like what TikTok does and have a herd believe on it now?
I'm a Swiftie and I agree that there is a lot of racism in the fandom, but in this case it was Tyler's fans who started attacking Taylor first after he surpassed her on Spotify and the fans rescued these lyrics to "refutes them" and at no point did they mention Tyler's skin color.
I first listened to Sarah recently on the bus as it came up in my youtube radioo. I didn't really pay attention to the lyrics until like halfway, and I started crying. It reminded me of my ex who had fantasies of r*ping and necro to a similar extent. Despite that, I liked the song; I support problematic, shocking art because a lot of things in life are shocking and are gross for no reason and frankly, lot of people I've met who engage with or create media like that (including me) are victims or witnesses of the abuse. However the line is always drawn at real people, you can be a horror artist without directing threats to real people, there are people who have made some evil horrible shit but irl they are well adjusted and very nice. At the end of the day, the minute you bring that into irl its over, especially if you are an adult, you should know self restraint and know how to handle your media. I knew about Tyler's old discography but those tweets about Selena and Taylor are just sick, and its even worse people are trying to defend it by saying he was 19/20.
@@GoatedPharrell nice bait and good reading comprehension, literally said i liked Sarah and support dark problematic art, my disgust comes from his real comments about real people. Please read a comment before you reply
@@peacaca6021 i love how you guys always say "read the comment" and then edit it 😂✌goblin and bastard are fire grow up and stop being such a soft baby 😂✌😂✌
@@GoatedPharrell as a tyler fan you're extremely annoying. you're not even worth talking to cuz you refuse to accept the fact that this comment was completely written in good faith cuz they dissed your king. when you make disturbing and shocking media, you only look like a baby for getting upset when people are shocked and disturbed. don't be braindead
I think one of the biggest part why young people like tyler (as a person outside of songs) is because of the narrative of him growing out from the old self , finding this new path and still being funny , coming out of the closet and getting more accepting of himself . I related to this , i used to be horrible, cracking offensive jokes as a 16 year old , but i grew up , grew out , saw this artist making cool music and got to know about his past and his change , his humor being still funny after he stopped being a complete asshole , so i thought of him as an idol , a fellow bisexual lmfao who had an asshole phase or some shit like that. its confusing , i still like him a lot but very disappointed saying he will go back to his edgy self that too in a threating way...
I agree with the argument that just because someone makes amazing art, that shouldn’t excuse them from the consequences of what they say or do. And I really love flower boy and Igor, hell I just bought the vinyls for them last week. And I like chromakopia too, I’ve had it on repeat. But even I caught myself trying to defend this person of the things that they’ve said, and I don’t know them personally like that. “It was years ago!” But even so, that shouldn’t be an excuse. Nor should the “I was crazy back then” quote excuse what you say or do. Women already got it hard, but defending this kind of talk about women being hurt isn’t cool, even if it was years ago. It’s WRONG. And we need to be better than that.
As a person who's not a fan of any of these ppl Its fucking wild how Tyler literally brought up the past tweets and old album himself when he announced it on stage, but is then surprised when ppl r shocked by wtf it is. Not everyone knew the old tyler so seeing that was probably like whiplash Also the swifties being racist is nothing new. Its bullshit how ppl cant call out nasty behavior without also being nasty.
“B-B-but it’s important for awareness!” He didn’t even outwardly mention that they were intrusive thoughts + he continued to proudly rap and profit off of it + it’s still triggering and harmful to victims of SA
@@lun4r.st4rr "he continued to proudly rap and profit off of it" It's an album from 2011. You can literally watch several interviews where he calls his old music garbage. Specifically one where he says that he used to make gross and insane lyrics in the past just to make people mad but he stopped when he realized he wanted his music to have an actual meaning.
@@racebulinso… youre saying he didnt stop because he developed empathy for the women he was harassing or came to a realization that the shit he was saying was abhorrent regardless of context. he only stopped because he decided he wanted to be taken seriously?
im sorry but tyler the creator still sounds like a misogynist to me. thats an insane thing to reference NOW. also so uncomfortable that as a 19 YEAR OLD HE WAS SAYING THAT ABT REAL WOMEN. thats disgusting i never knew abt this n honestly will not listen to him anymore (not a super fan anyways.... )
Unrelated: But as a fan of Tyler's music, I felt disappointed when I noticed he used the D slur in his newest album. He might not talk about rape, murder, cannibalism etc. in his newer songs, but he still shows that he hasn't matured in that area which upsets me.
i dont know why people say hes changed and grown up as if he doesnt say the d slur for lesbians in his last album? he loves saying stuff to rile people up because he finds it entertaining and that is weird and childish
Rape threats are not funny period unless u are so disconnected from other human beings that u cannot imagine being on the receiving end of that kind of horrific harassment
Tyler the Creator is the basis of “I love his music but I WILL give you a look if you say I miss the old him”
Wdym Wolf is peak
@@Relyk260fr
I hated him since adult swim. But this last album was amazing.
I like his old him
@@Relyk260better but still has these themes
If I wanted to move on from my old, controversial work, I would simply not direct my current fans to go listen to it.
He was telling Taylor swift fans to listen to it
he was saying that he didn't like the rhetoric that he was 'hiding' his old lyrics and didnt want people to find out about it. he says he's 'come a long way from [his] past' - arguably, he's saying that he's taking up responsibility for it and is owning to them, not trying to cover it up.
Exactly yet he opened a floodgates to his past that he told publicly he "grew" from, idk if he grew from that if he still threatened everyone that he's gonna go back to his past self if some Fandom attacked him
@@ryss335 being called a n*gger and a dirty monkey is not just some fandom attacking you. That shit has actual foundation in this world
@@ryss335He was joking, clearly. He isn’t actually going to go back to how he used to be because he’s changed and has said he isn’t proud of his old music.
Unpopular opinions.
First, rape is used as a threat against women often enough that it deserves to be taken seriously if someone puts it in a rap and names a specific woman.
Second, Tyler got away with his lyrics because of the type of women he targeted. A lot of people desperately want to see Swift "humbled".
You're unpopular opinion should be popular.
Also being a woman breaking glass ceilings is part of the reason people want to see Taylor Swift humbled. The r*pey lyrics are disgusting
The idea that real people out there in the world can equate a woman being RAPED to a woman being “humbled” is horrifying.
Also, Tyler admits on this album multiple times to being a homewrecker and I’ve literally seen ZERO people criticize him for it. BUT WHEN ARIANA DOES IT…
@@BigOwl51it’s not ok for either party to be a home wrecker and from what I seen ariana doesn’t think she’s a home wrecker
but there is definitely a double standard in there (per usual)
I agree and also I'm the same age as Tyler the Creator. Literally my name is Tyler. We're a couple months apart lol. The stuff he was saying was wild at the time. Like before he really got big I was into like a lot of artists with these dark f'd up lyrics and even for me Tyler the Creator was doing a lot haha. He was explicitly making music for people who didn't care if that stuff was okay. So you're ripping every tendon in your arm as a fan trying to reach to defend the stuff in 2024
In 2016 I was in an abusive relationship, he loved Tyler's Goblin album a lot. It was the only Tyler album he would put on. It was my first exposure to Tyler's music and it upset me so much that once I left that man, I never wanted to see or hear about Tyler the Creator ever again until 2019 when Flower Boy fell into my recommended shuffle or whatever on spotify. Genuinely such a terrifying time in my life with a HORRIFYING soundtrack, people are more than entitled to be horrified at this album. I couldn't listen to Tyler for years. I'm ultimately glad that Flower Boy fell on my rotation, as he's one of my favourite artists now, but to wave away Goblin criticism as "dramatic" and "missing the point" is terrible
i'm sorry to hear :( I do agree it's ridiculous for people to wave away criticism as being "dramatic" and "racist", when in reality, play stupid games! win stupid prizes! Tyler is just reaping those stupid prizes now LOL
I’m truly truly sorry this happened to you, I have a similar situation with the drake album with the clouds. It’s all he would listen to
god I hate that us women are just supposed to accept that men that had “edgy phases” are different now even tho they threaten to go back to being “edgy” when we aren’t adequately appreciative of their change
like this isn’t even about just tyler. i want to enjoy the artistry of hip hop and rap but the prominence of female violence in the genre is just so exhausting
not defending tyler necessarily but i dont think thats a particularly nuanced understanding of hiphop. theres so much hiphop that is not misogynist or promoting female violence, its an incredibly broad genre of music. a lot of rappers are in fact women lol. im sure you didnt mean it this way but historically dismissing all hiphop as misogynist has been used as a racist dogwhistle by pearl clutching white women.
Taylor swift dated a 17 year old named conor Kennedy she was 22 years in 2012
@@julietofthebriar youtube keeps deleting my replies i’m trying to basically say not all hip hop and i can give recs if you are interested
Being insanely racist claiming queer black men want to be white women = "not being appreciative enough" blud shut tf up. Have some perspective and touch grass. What they're saying are literal hate crimes, he's being dragged for awful shit from back in the days, Taylor fans are *committing hate crimes in 2024*
@@platformingames2967 yeah Taylor swift is a billionaire piece of shit what else is new. what does this have to do with my comment
It’s always bothered me how men are applauded for treating women and other minorities like human beings. We view it as some sort of “growth” as though it shouldn’t be the standard to not treat women like shit.
100% agree!!
real
Some people in the comments are like “listen to hey Jane and judge Judy”, which are new songs on his album and are very positive towards women. I like those songs but people using them as excuses for his past behavior is a shitty thing to do. They’re essentially saying “well he says nice things about women NOW so none of that other stuff matters”
because men (and women) are INDOCTRINATED at birth to be misogynistic.
Right! Even if they keep acting like they deserve a redemption all cuz they developed empathy w/o real remorse
5:15 don't you just love when they call a 20 year old man a teenager to justify the stuff he did and wrote while girls are expected to watch their every step from a very early age?
@@creepypastacraft d'angelo just showed us a video of him being 22 and saying the same disgusting things, out loud even. like, i get your point (even though where i live 19 is no longer considered teenage) and i respect it, but please don't pretend 19 isn't old enough to know better
Womp womp @@leticafe
@@creepypastacraftyes, 19 still counts as teenager. Also note that this teenager was openly talking about wanting to r@>pe girls the very day they turned 18.
If a person is old enough to know about s3 × then that person is old enough to know about consent. There's no way his behavior can be excused for him being an adult teenager. He[[, nobody should ever be glorifying ra/>pe no matter how young or old they are.
It's insane that so many kids have to be so careful out there, and this man just gets to say that BS and gets excused by some fans. It just isn't right.
I like this comparisons. So you assume the same person who called Tyler a teenager wouldn't have the same treatment to a girl base on what?
@@creepypastacraft A 19 year old is an adult. Full stop. If little children know that murder is wrong there is no excuse for a 19 year old to be singing and glorifying rape. Being a "teenager" does not excuse anything.
why does horror core have to equal violent language towards women. tired of this shit fr I had been wanting to explore Tyler’s music for awhile bc he’s so acclaimed but uhhh,,,,,idk about this one folks
Brother, it was 10+ years ago, get over yourself.
@@DISCRECTIONGR0VE just because you're a c*nt doesn't mean everyone else is lmfao. some people have basic human decency. i understand that it's a foreign concept to clowns like you, but they don't actually have to "get over" anything. cry about it.
@@DISCRECTIONGR0VE always the same excuse, doesnt seem he's changed. Yall defend any man EVER.
Explore his last 4 albums then
@@DISCRECTIONGR0VE why would we do that when Tyler himself can't?
“He was being edgy and unserious to piss people off” okay but why are these things always about women? Why are they always made into punching bags for sexual fetish disguised as shock content? He’s upset about the racism directed towards him (make no mistake, Im not excusing it even the slightest) but can’t scrounge up enough empathy to understand that people are just as affected by his misogyny?
☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️ "fake" misogyny, real effect on people
He understands he has said horrible things in his music. And he has apologized to people about his past work and moved on. For example on manifesto he talks about apologizing to selena in person for tweeting crazy things about her during his early stages. I understand his old lyrics are ugly, but you cannot say he did not apologize and move on and grow from his past. He has taken accountability for his actions. I don't see the idea of harping on old lyrics
did you not even watch the video? That song is acknowledged, and so are all of Tyler’s actions after his “apology”. The actions speak louder than his (weak) words.
@@aries9716 1) does he? as D'Angelo says in the video, except for one song there's hardly any evidence of him saying sorry (and even in that song it's a non-apology at best). plus now he's threatening to come back to that, thus straight up threatening to verbally SA Taylor Swift in his music, which is absolutely disgusting and does not show any growth; 2) the people he offended directly are not the only ones he should apologise to, especially after bringing this up again on his own (the fanbase, specifically the women in it, deserve an apology too); 3) had he moved on there would be at least one interview/video/tweet where he properly acknowledges the issues in his past music (mentioning the misogyny in it straight-up) and he wouldn't be joking/threatening about the come back of that era or trying to wash his hands on his own misogyny by crying wolf(racism, which I'm not arguing he doesn't experience, just that maybe this isn't the moment to bring it up like a shield).
@@aries9716well seems like he doesn't really grow when he publicly say and reminded his old fans AND new fans with "don't make me going back to tron cat era" on that NEW video of him
as a longtime female fan of tyler, i truly hated his old stuff and i AM impressed with his growth and coming out. however, it's disappointing that he threatened to "go back" to the goblin era, essentially acting as if his growth doesn't matter and he hasn't actually matured. not happy about this.
This part! Everyone's saying "he's grown and changed!" But the only reason people looked at his old stuff is because he threatened to "bring back the old him" and told them to look it up. He's the one who made it relevant to the conversation.
exactly! that was super immature of him to say
To me, it’s a sign that he never changed at all and just has been pretending he has tbh. If you truly were better, you wouldn’t be threatening to go back to a dangerous version of yourself tbh
Him saying that to me means he stopped bc he was getting criticized, not because he sees the wrong in what he said or did.
@@Sing_A_Rebel_SongI don’t think he meant it exactly like that but he meant it like he’s gonna come out and diss her. He was harsh back then and that’s why he threatened that
I'm so tired of using violence against women as the basis of horror stories.
Me too,for them women mean nothing, and women shouldn't complain, only men should complain, only men matter
I like it when the women are in power.
Word. I was just saying this to my mate the other day. I’m a 48 year old man and I really can’t stomach it anymore.
Its so exhausting. Men are so obssess with violence against women then cries when women irl dont want anything from men or are scared of men. Remember the man vs bear issue and how many men were angry and offended when women would rather be around bears then men.
@@SkyGodHQ So many hemotions out there.
20 year old tyler the creator was "just a kid who would still learn", but 20 year old taylor swift was declared a whore by the media for having too many boyfriends. the double standards are always so obvious.
Are you like 12? He was banned in the three countries, mostly censored from the mainstream and there were protests outside of his shows. So, why get online and lie? People were taking his music seriously back then, too, and thought he was satanic, racist, homophobic and rapist and a danger to young people.
@@kyoga5714girl are YOU 12? You completely missed the whole point of the comment omfg… no one is saying that his music wasn’t taken seriously, but look at the DIFFERENCE between how Taylor and Tyler are treated. A man who made lyrics about r4pe (yes we know its intrusive thoughts but if a woman tried going down that artistic lane then oh she would be torn to SHREDS) and a woman who writes about her love life are not the same in absolutely any regard…???? No one is lying omg i dont fw Taylor swift but people treat her horribly just because she writes about her failed relationships or whatnot but YALL expect mfs to give Tyler some kind of bouquet of roses and an apology for calling how his behavior back then was deranged. Time doesnt expire the weight of your actions or words. Also his response in that recent video was weird… why even reference the album everyone supposedly claims he has “grown” from and say “youre going to bring out the old me” ?????? Like yeah i get it was a character or whatever but why call it the old YOU that you’re gonna revert back to if it was NEVER actually you in the first place? It’s still pretty gross and strange to say sorry!
@uhh3457 “Time doesn’t expire the weight of your actions or words” goes so hard 👏
and her few boyfriends were minors, that’s more fucked up than tyler’s edgy lyrics in his old music
@@fanumgoonNone of that was true, Connor her youngest bf was already 18 when taylor was 21 when she started dating him. 3 year age gap. Compare that to Diddler the creator, who was a 30+ grown man when he dated Reign Judge who was a teenager back then
Thank you so much for this. Genuinely, as a black woman who loves loves rap, there are way too many black male rappers who do this without any sort of consequence, and it's been going on for way too long, with people like Eazy E ,DMX, Biggie, all of these popular figures within the community, who are still praised today, at the cost of a safe space for black women within the hip hop industry. It's extremely disheartening.
edit: Also, him tweeting that stuff is a legitimate form of sexual harassment, so please think twice before defending that.
Just continue to shake your ahh object
Excactly! It must be so incredibly disheartening to see the person who makes things so unsafe for you, who jokes about the violence against you be praised and highlighted. And I agree, those tweets are sexual harassment and I am schocked they were even allowed to be tweeted…
A lot of the women I saw calling him out were black and it's soooooo interesting that he lumped them with "racist ass swifties"
He's so comfortable with erasing black women and their voices
God forbid anyone brings up Chris Brown’s history of DV ☝🏾
One of my neighbors at a previous apartment demanded that I follow him on Twitter. When I finally did, it turned out he was posting gross sexual fantasies **about female tenants in the building**. It was gross and r4pey and we were all terrified of the dude. (Elderly incel who also posted on incel forums.) Unfortunately, the **women** managing the building didn't understand what Twitter was (in 2016!) and threatened to evict me for "hacking his email." Uh, he straight up demanded I follow him AT a tenant meeting with witnesses and I called him out for sexual harassment expecting me to read that garbage. He went on to have a predatory relationship with a neighbor who was having a crisis after her fiancé dumped her, and there were rumors he r4ped her in her apartment where everyone on that courtyard could hear it happening. (It happened while I was out for the day so I didn't witness anything myself.)
I don’t know what man needs to hear this, but we don’t need “fake” misogyny for the sake of commentary or satire when there’s already so much real misogyny in the world. Let’s just simply not.
This!
I want to forward this to any and all fantasy writers😅
Freedom of speech
@@KingFrancis15not freedom of consequence or reaction
@@KingFrancis15I.. do you know how freedom of speech works? Because I’m not sure you do
woah so glad you enjoyed the video! once you see that societal "great male genius" framework it really starts popping up all over the place lol
It was a great video! You deserve your flowers for it!
Ah love your channel and loved both of your male genius videos!!!
Excellent video ❤
💐💐💐💐💐💐
Yepp
Regarding the swifties racism, as someone who stans bts and is active on Twitter, they have a HUGE racism issue, but that’s a different conversation
Always the keyboard warriors quick to be racist but if you ever was face to face to them, they are scared. There is a content creators who actually calls them out while they think no one knows who they really are. They always apologize and scared that their real life will be affected.
Yeah its completely seperate from tyler they are just racist. Two different issues.
Quiet! D 'Angelo doesn't want to talk about that🥴
@@TemporaryApple1984 He literally mentions the racism in Taylor Swift's fandom
I hate it when valid criticism gets overshadowed by unwarrented hate that leads to the wrong person getting a cushion of false sympathy, making it easy for them to sway accountability because they getting racist comments unrelated to the matter at hand.
what is the matter at hand exactly? Is Tyler supposed to be punished every time a person finally listens to his edgy music from over 10 years ago?
@@twobitt2222 exactly like this mf tyler literally apologized for this exact thing and atp taylor swift fans are just upset he beat her on the charts and they wanna bring up his old lyrics which he always says he wont be cancelled for because hes already been cancelled in real life, not no internet shitl ike this video is trying to do... like these mfs are just bored
@@twobitt2222 Watch the video, he hasn't apologized, nor seems to have grown from it 🙃
@twobitt2222 never that. I'm a fan of his too don't get me wrong. I love his music. I see his past music as a part of his life he shared that helps understand who he is now. The homophibia which now in hindsight can be seen as internalized homophibia as a Bi man himself. However, as much as I understand that, I also understand women don't have to be a stepping stone to his self growth. And it's a past he can't erase but some accountability would be nice. Genuine accountability, from him not from fans (myself included) coming up with that sincerity and accountability from vague statements he's said in interviews
@@twobitt2222 idk why people see people like him getting called out as a carrer ruining thing. This is something that has been brought up time and time again and he still got to the top of the charts. In no way is he ever going to get "punished" for his actions.
separate from the swift of it all, women say "hey these old lyrics are pretty misogynistic" and his response is "f-- you btches, f-- you hoes, go listen to the song. ill start being misogynistic again idc" ...awful response.
And people saying he’s changed and he apologized- If he really changed and grew from it, why is he gloating about it to this day?
Why do people even make "Jokes" at the expense of others and then get mad when the affected party doesn't like it. Why doesn't he makes jokes about himself getting raped?
A lot of y'all can't say it so I will. Tyler isn't mad at Taylor's fans for being r*cist he's mad that he's not a white man. He's mad that they can even use his blackness against him. He's angry that he himself can't be both r*cist and misogynistic. He'd love to be a caucasian man. Only... Imagine how the world would react if he was a wm and made a "satirical" album about lynching a bunch of people and going on a tirade of g*nocide ... I'm sure people would accept that it's just a joke right...right?
The truth is a lot of bm love systems of power ... they just don't like that they're at the bottom of them.
@@vivi-ws9yl A lot of y'all can't say it so I will. Tyler isn't mad at Taylor's fans for being r*cist he's mad that he's not a white man. He's mad that they can even use his blackness against him. He's angry that he himself can't be both r*cist and misogynistic. He'd love to be a caucasian man. Only... Imagine how the world would react if he made a "satirical" album about lynching a bunch of people and going on a tirade of g*nocide ... I'm sure people would accept that it's just a joke right...right?
@@vivi-ws9yl not defending the edgy line, but it wouldnt make sense if made about himself...and it was just a edgy joke told to be edgy, nobody is going after eminem even though he has had PLENTY of edgy lines worse than that.
As a huge tyler fan for like the last 7 years, yeah this is how it should be viewed. You cant make lyrics designed to outrage and envoke shock and anger and then get mad and call the audience racist when said lyrics shock and outrage like be fr
They literally called him a dirty ape but okay😊 he did something wrong but they also did
@ yeah both sides are also in the wrong however he generalised taylors audience (as pointed out in the video) meaning only a small minority of her fanbase were being weird and racist whereas the vocal majority did provide valid criticism (such as the "??????" 💀)
the thing is it's not just his awful lyrics but those tweets too and the way he's acting and the fact that said some of those horrible things on video too
him calling them racist isn't an attempt to invalidate their claims, these claims are nothing new. Tyler's statement was made in response to people bringing up past lyrics that have been talked about for 6 years. No serious fan of him is defending the lyrics, they are disgusting, but bringing up these lyrics to devalue his recent achievements will obviously invoke anger. Tyler has been called out, cancelled, and isolated because of these lyrics, already. What is the point of cancelling someone and then ignoring their growth. That's not justice, people don't get convicted twice for the same thing. Should all of Jelly Roll's success be invalid because he was a drug dealer and a robber?
@ yeah theres a reason everyone tried to forget about early tyler...and current tyler should do the same, threatening to go back to it doesnt show much maturity or growth and is just really fuckin weird
Wait but can we also acknowledge how racist Taylor swift fans are? The racism I’ve received from “swifties” are akin to the racism I’ve received from “tRumpers” fr
he does in the video, not for as long as he critiques tyler throughout but he certainly acknowledges them.
There's literally no doubt that her fans is racist. But Taylor Swift doesn't control her fans. Even if she say "stop bullying people!" to her fans, you think they're gonna stop? Taylor Swift never said anything bad about Tyler, she never tweeted anything about Tyler. Yet, he choose to drag her instead of her toxic fans. It's ridiculous.
@@grrahstackyits the same with any artist. There’s so much they can say, but FANS will do whatever tf they want🤷🏽♀️
I agree but I don't think what happened to Tyler was racism, the Swifties just reacted after Taylor was attacked by his fans and she (most of them at least) simply didn't touch his skin color...
did you watch the entirety of the video? he talks about that at 11:40
As a person struggling a lot with intrusive thoughts, it’s fucking insulting to see people excuse this behavior. You don’t choose to have intrusive thoughts but you choose what you do with them and writing rape’y slop about an actual human being is definitely not the right move
right, I have intrusive thoughts too and you’ll never see me discussing the contents of them much less PUBLISHING IT FOR PROFIT?
“As a person with intrusive thoughts” is funny cause nearly everyone has them 😭 but yeah idek why that has to be said
@@Chris-rj4bt yeah but not to the extent of someone with OCD for example which is probably why they said that. people with OCD can struggle with intrusive thoughts more frequently than the average occasional intrusive thought.
@@Chris-rj4btI mean it in a more clinical context, since people are mentioning Tyler’s OCD. There’s a difference between every day intrusive thoughts and those caused by mental illness and the latter is often much more difficult to deal with
@@kagexharazyeah exactly
Why do people think it's ok to excuse someone of making a r@p€ comment bc of their age? So if a teen SA someone then it should be dismissed bc "they are young"???
That's something to think about! Teens can and do commit rapes irl.
@@GoatedPharrell bait used to be believable
@@DaniCatGames if you reply to this you are homophobic
@@PBM_from_The_Jstop being a creep rapist and stfu
if anything, it’s worse, no? if they’re young and making such comments
i have never forgotten the selena gomez rape threats tyler tweeted SEVERAL times, waiting for her to turn 18 like a creep. those tweets are completely unhinged. not excusable at all. + his many rapey lyrics... just disgusting
@@GoatedPharrell Did you watch the video? Because if you've got a link to an apology that D'Angelo couldn't find that actually spoke about the issues and was an actual coherent apology (not a vague lyric), I'm sure everyone would be really excited to see it!
@@BearMas simple google search did tyler apologize to selena gomez just cause "deangelo" couldnt find it dont mean you cant 😂✌
@@BearMas "I was a teener, tweetin' Selena crazy s--- / Didn't wanna offend her, apologize when I seen her" is it really that hard
@@GoatedPharrell You can read what I wrote again if you need, it's right there. I'll be here if you need some more help. 👍
@@BearMas he said he apologized to her in person what more do you need a video 😂✌ grow up and stop acting like that stuff was unkown media goblin is huge and fire too you are acting like a baby 😂✌😂✌
16:17 this! I'm a firm believer that it's okay to like art with problematic themes and art made by questionable people. But it's also okay to be uncomfortable with that.
I think the internet in general has got to get better about just letting multiple opinions exist. Sometimes there isn't a correct take, sometimes multiple takes are correct, etc..
No it’s not, because when you do you are financially supporting said people, there’s no “art is separate from the artist”, you are funding their lifestyle and thus condoning their actions…
i don’t think it’s okay to like or support this kind of thing.
@ why not? As long as you don’t share the beliefs of the author and/or characters, what is the negative effect?
@@neon2870 supporting grape and violence against women IS the negative effect...
@ once again, you have not explained how fictional actions contribute to real life harm. Nor have you explained how liking fiction with those elements inherently means supporting them.
18:30 “the cultural framework is already existence to excuse men for being crazy when you think they’re talented” - you ate with this
The amount of men who have threatened Taylor Swift with r*pe is unhinged. I'm starting to see where Swifties are coming from when they accuseTaylor Swift haters of being misogynistic, even though I personally can't stand Taylor or her fans.
I’m a swiftie myself and it’s so ridiculous how these people think it’s funny when it’s really just sickening and disgusting behavior
It's like they resent her success and desire to punish her for it
Yeah but sometimes they take it to far and call people who say anything slightly negative about her misogynistic even if they aren’t
@An_awesomeduckhere Now when Swifties made fun of Katty Perry for having a mental breakdown that was funny. Also when they criticized her for working with Dr Luke but never said a thing about Taylor working with David O Russell
Umm, that's exactly what it is.@@ZVooey
The fact that women are just expected to accept this kind of behaviour from men and never make a big deal out of it is so tiring.
i’d understand if you were whining about it in 09/2011 but we literally have seen how he’s evolved and matured but ur still mad for absolutely no reason. I get what ur saying but really no reason to get mad about this specifically, especially in times like these where ur rights are at stake😂 stop worrying about what this bi black dude was doing 15 years ago
you’re just playing into the hands of the swifties it’s a fucking defamation campaign practically. yk how much more nasty shit there is to worry about then tyler
@@eggskrodi5222 he’s still making money from those songs and as such he’s as accountable for them now as he was then.
Great to live in a world where you get more shit for having a problem with sexual harassment than the actual sexual harassment. I really don't care about what the harasser "truly feels inside" or if they have "grown", the people defending the behavior are still proving the point even in 2024.
@eggskrodi5222 If we're going to hold people accountable for racist, homophobic, etc tweets they made in the past. I think the same can be said for violently misogynistic tweets, and lyrics, that someone is still profiting from and referencing to this day...
oh! I guess I really am normal about his music. I’m never going to touch his old stuff (goblin, bastard, etc) but I like his newer stuff and I want to continue listening to it. Thank you for actually pointing this out dude, W video.
same, the amount of r@pe lyrics in bastard alone is just weird
people using the age excuse are boring. i'm 19. most of my friends are 19. we know not to "joke" or to write lyrics about rape. when i was 18 i knew not to joke about that. when i was 16 i knew not to joke about that. hell, when i was 10 i knew not to joke about that. if a 19 year old is adult enough to drive a car, vote, and (in most countries) legally buy alcohol, then they are adult enough to know that rape is wrong and shouldn't be joked about
@@kiks2925 So when Taylor made homophobic comments in her early albums using age as an excuse is bad too?
@ yes
@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801 Yes.
@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801she actually addressed it
Me too. 19 is old enough to know what's right and what's wrong. The "I was just young" excuse doesn't work here.
My name is Sarah and in 2011 I was 13. There was a boy in my 8th grade class that would write the lyrics of that song in my notebooks and on slips of paper and give it to me and it was genuinely so fucking scary. It was the same boy who would sexually harass me on a regular basis by groping me. I like Tyler’s new music but some accountability on his part would be great
i hope you are okay now 💛 he sounds like a fucking piece of shit
I’m so sorry that happened to you
@@Forsekend
..... Why would you ever admit all that????? I'd take that embarrassing shit to my grave lmao wtf
@@Forsekend How is "Lucky I was never found out" your takeaway? How do you even live with yourself?
it's insane how people will excuse stuff because of "fiction" as if life and art aren't constantly influencing each other. encouraging something in a fictional setting will, if the work in question gains traction, always spill over into real life. as a public figure your words hold so much weight and imo you have (at least in public settings and in your art) a certain resposibility, to at least not actively make the world a worse place..
If you want to listen to a problematic artist, I can't stop you, I listen to some problematic artists too. Don't pretend that their behavior is okay though.
Exactly! That’s why you try to pirate their music whenever possible. Download it or buy secondhand CDs so they can’t profit
@@HavingFunISKEY i love downloading mp3s!! i love being able to listen to music without any care for the awful artist!!🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
@@jr1zg7kt3g YO HO DIDDL3 LEE DEE
This is one of only a few sane statement within this video and its comment section. Aside from calling out and harassing T.Swift & Selener, Tyler didn’t really do anything wrong. What he was saying back then was definitely unsettling, but this holier than thou attitude is just so weird, totally unnecessary, and frankly pretty annoying. Simply avoid it if you don’t like it, and don’t try to play like he’s hurting anyone by saying stupid things
@@BlooBoi23”holier than thou” and what we’re talking about is rape. Look i can tell you’re a male, so this kind of stuff doesn’t bother you, but it DOES bother women. This is the kind of shit we have to worry about when we go out alone, especially at night, and for tyler to rap about it like this is deeply wrong and disturbing.
Black female fan who was in highschool when I first heard goblin. I was dealing with depression from CSA, and listening to those song when they freshly came out made me feel justified in my anger and hatred of people. I was bullied heavily and came home to some traumatic stuff as well. Me and my best friend at the time would drive around in my car blasting those songs. Now, in 31, I work in children's mental health after years of therapy and self work. I think as and old tyler fan, because I dealt with my pain and grew up, I imprinted that onto tyler. It's kinda sad to see a glimpse of that old "character" thar he swore wasn't really him. As for my friend who also listen to him, someone I was connect to at the hip, she got addicted to heroin and moved away. I don't know if she's alive. I last got a response from her 4 years ago. All this rambling to say music is powerful, and in the wrong headspace it can make awful thoughts fester. If their are any kiddos reading this who are dealing with abuse, depression, bullying, there are people here to help who won't judge you. You don't have to suffer. Be careful what you're taking in when your thoughts are dark. It will get better.
I been thru shitt too that dont give me an excuse to cry about everything 😂😂 push thru and thug it out
@Lxrzo did that make you feel better? Try a therapist next time not me😘
@@lainistyping Try a therapist? fam you wrote a whole essay in a youtube comment section im not the one who needs a therapist 🤣
Why does edgy dark jokes always mean rape to these boys??? Why is one of the worst thing that can happen to people so funny to them ???
“dark humour” is meant to be targeted at yourself anyways, right? like “i’m gonna kms”? not literally r@pe or abuse threats to other ppl..
Because they really don't care and don't think it's that bad. Because they hate women and have no empathy.
they aren't joking.
Because a majority of the things mentioned here in his early albums were based on his own intrusive thoughts
they fantasize about it 24/7. every joke has a splash of truth to it
I am a big Tyler fan but I do not condone his misogynist past. He made vile and grotesque comments.
That being said, there were some Swifites out there who were being racist to him and that doesn't make the situation better. Call him out without being racist.
That's impossible for swifties.
Real
Thank you Mtv2001 for your solidarity
tyler responding to stan twitter is so odd
Fr like, bringing this up without talking about how swifties are notoriously and visciously racist is crazyyy
being a woman is so exhausting. why can't men just leave us alone and stop talking about our bodies
Pls pls pls ple pls pls
throw it back for a real one
Honestly, shit like this makes me wish I were a tree. It's frustrating…
Because it’s how we’re designed.
Ťħřöŵ Ïť bǎćķ fôř ä řēãļ öńě
Every once in a while a new group discovers Tyler’s old music and the same shit gets rehashed again and again
They're giving him the reaction that he wants 😂😂 he said himself he only made that type of music to offend people
Why is this a good thing? Why is offending women funny? @@Lxrzo
its not that it was "discovered" its that he WILLING told people to go listen to it and that he'd "go back to his old self" aka make more r--e stuff
So much violent misogyny is constantly normalized, it’s wild. Exhausting just trying to engage with media (and people) just to be reminded of my own traumatic experiences, even if all I was trying to do was take a walk with my dog. And as D’Angelo talks about, when we respond normally and are offended / hurt / bothered, we are told we need to just shut up and calm down.
Men will never understand what it was like growing up as a teenage girl and hearing boys scream Tyler's lyrics during school. Literally hearing r*p3 threats across the classroom. It was hell.
And those same men will act like men's emotions are stigmatized while they blatantly demean and degrade any woman for having any reaction. They have to create some bizarro opposite world where women are extremely privileged to justify their treatment and views of us as being some form of justice rather than being plain old misogynists, a norm since the dawn of humanity.
I very much relate to that! Thank you for saying that! And I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Your gonna have to get used to it because there no way your gonna be able to control anyone’s speech and ultimately humor will always come from trauma so you will always have people making fucked up jokes
@@notamurderer6226 You're f*cking pathetic defending Tyler on multiple comments and trying to dismiss women's realities.
“Oh but he apologized!!” Have you ever considered that SA victims are simply not required to forgive you????
i get what your saying but comparing what he did to actual sa downplays sa like a mf 😂✌u are acting like he actually did it
Yes they are i consent to them forgiving me
@@PBM_from_The_J you don't know if he did it or not.He simply could I we wouldn't know, but writing a rape slop and then saying he grew up by being normal is just fucking dumb
@@yumalove7223 "You don't know if he did it or not" Wdym?? there are no allegations or charges against him? that's how you know?
@@PBM_from_The_J Sorry my guy, but he did do sexual harassment, that's literally what he was doing on Twitter, constitutes as sexual harassment. If you're a sex pest you suck no matter what
Women are tired!! We are so tired!! We’ve experienced thousands of years of being treated as less than human, we don’t need songs about killing and raping us on the charts in the modern era. I don’t want to hear that shit on the radio. I don’t want those messages out there. I just want to be a person. The fact that men don’t understand this baffles me. Our horrific lived experiences should not be jokes or edgy stories for you.
Edit: for all the people with no thinking ability, I am not specifically talking about Tyler here. Jesus Christ
You guys do not even understand the situation at hand. Tyler stopped writing the murdery rapey songs IN 2011, there are no songs about that currently charting. It’s fine if you don’t want to listen to or support him bc of his old stuff, that’s fine, but the stuff on his new album is a genuine evolution from his edgelord phase, i.e. hey Jane and judge Judy
@@laylam9997 where did I say they were currently on the charts?? Where did I specifically mention Tyler once? Tyler is far from the only one. Male artists put out rapey and extremely sexist songs all the time and a lot of them get really popular. But thank you sm for trying to discount a woman who is upset about sexism being so normalized even today.
@@Camass33”songs about killing and raping us on the charts in the modern era” + the video is about tyler and you’re… commenting on it
im not trying to discount your point bc i don’t disagree with you, im pointing out an inaccuracy in your statement which you shouldn’t have a problem with if you really want nuance
@@laylam9997 I’m sorry you made an incorrect assumption about what I was saying 💀 what I said relates to Tyler and was inspired by the video yeah but it’s not specifically about him and him alone. Many many many men do it and get away with it. Why are you arguing if you don’t disagree with me. My comment was about male artists who do that shit in general. If it was about Tyler specifically i would have said his name. And I did say those songs are on the charts in the modern era but I didn’t say HIS songs.
@@laylam9997 We are talking about how sketchy he sounds before. It doesn't matter how he's "changed" or whatever, that doesn't erase the fact that he is a sketchy moron, way back until now.
Hard disagree. I don’t believe Tyler was saying that Bastard and Goblin are beyond criticism. He is pushing back at the fact that many Swifties are bringing up his old lyrics simply to tear him down because they are angry and not because they actually care about the things he said in 2011.
While Tyler may have never made one big clear cut apology for the things he has said, i believe he is at the point where his music speaks for itself for how much he has changed and he loves his old music because as messed up as it is, it was a stepping stone in his journey as a musician and those albums serve as time capsules of this journey (thus the “energy” tyler is referring too when talking about bastard).
People are directing criticism at Tyler in 2024 for shit he said in 2011, when the criticism should be (rightfully) directed at Bastard and Goblin. Just because those albums haven’t changed, doesn’t mean Tyler hasn’t. The only reason the criticism is going to Tyler himself is because a very angry group of swift fans need to find something to shoot at him, when he hasn’t done anything even remotely bad or offensive in the last decade.
Tyler’s old music is (in my opinion) rubbish and super unnecessarily offensive. The albums have aged like milk. But it seems like no matter how much Tyler apologises and moves away from his past, people who dislike him always use it as a crutch to hate on him. His old music is in incredibly poor taste, but I just don’t understand what people expect him to do about.
Also you literally proved that some Taylor Swift fans have made racist tweets about him, proving his point. He at no point said all Taylor Swift fans are racist. Just that some racist taylor swift fans have been bringing up his old work as a way to hate on him because he surpassed their fav artist for like literally three days 😭
EXACTLY! I think a lot of people who got into his music through his more serious recent work go back to his old music with those same expectations. I agree his old music is horrible, but he was an edgy and emotionally stunted young man who got an incredible amount of attention for saying those things. Him and Odd Future were a group of unserious trolls who all eventually matured and thats why the group was short lived. Also a lot of people in the comments are treating his music like he means every sexist word he said in bastard and goblin, yet ignoring all the feminist things he has said in CMIYGL and Chromakopia. Like “Hey Jane” is literally a pro choice song and most of his love songs for women are about how perfect they are.
holy cope.
THANK YOU FOR WRITING EVERYTHING OUT AND USING YOUR BRAIN! Literally saw someone say the criticism he’s getting should outweigh the racism because “not all swifties are racist”.. he shouldnt have to excuse any racism no matter how big or small tf?? He was obviously addressing the boneless hate and racism he got for being better than taylor. And people dont understand his growth; he is confident and assured in himself and his growth that he doesnt feel the need to continue to shame his past. No sane tyler fan praises the lyrics in goblin or bastard or even cherry bomb.
He hasn't changed at all he literally said don't bring the old me. So that will bring his old self if he wants. Also people can criticize his song as long as it's available on Spotify and his official yt channel. Also he even said Goblin and bastard great in his recent interview. Also all the racist tweet got less than 100 like
@@rd3munna812 Dude, don’t bring the old me as in “Don’t bring up the old me”. He is saying to not bring up his old self and who he was before. Do you think he is threatening to start rapping about eating and killing people again???
No because if we're holding influencers accountable for saying racist things years ago, we need to hold him accountable for past violent misogyny too. This isnt okay. Idgaf if it was supposed to be a "character," you still had those thoughts in your head and felt like it was acceptable to say it publicly. And i can't stand Taylor Swift, for the record.
People truly pick and choose when it comes to holding others accountable for their past actions. I used to do the same with artists + celebrities I worshipped.
It's such a slippery slope, to be honest. On one hand, we have people questioning whether or not we should call out these actions because of Tyler's growth over the years. On the other hand, we have those on the in and outside looking in, saying we should call out these actions regardless of growth.
@@cultwonyoif you put it online at any point, you made the decision to allow others to hold you accountable. Splashing every fcked up thought that crosses your mind across the internet is wild to me...if someone hates another human or group of humans enough to say the things that people are being cancelled for this year, they deserve to be held accountable. Yonkers was my first Tyler the creator experience, when it came out. Leading me to explore all his old tracks, and they're MESSED up. We have to stop making allowances for horrible people because we like some of the things they create. Allowing them a platform to influence others, particularly young people, is absolute insanity.
@@rebeccasteinke4357 I 100% agree. When I was younger, I'd excuse problematic behaviors of celebrities and artists I followed. Hell, I find myself doing it at times as a 20-year-old. However, if we can't call out these individuals, how on earth are they expected to grow? It's also important for us to remember that it is not our responsibility to convince them to "change." They HAVE to be willing to put forth that effort.
@@rebeccasteinke4357tyler was never truly “a horrible person” he said half that shit to get attention for his music and expecting him to condemn the music he made as a youngin trying to chase his dream with a bitter worldview due to his situation growing up is crazy.
@@eggskrodi5222 well he's definitely not a good person if you're constantly talking about wanting to rape various women. Doesn't matter if it's a "joke" or some bs like that, things like rape need to be taken seriously or else the victims of said crimes suffer the consequences. He should learn that what he said was disgusting af. To not do so shows you either don't care about the crime and rape victims, you're a misogynist, or you're both
Why is he so comfortable with casually discussing the topic of him SA’ing any female celebrity?
hes never threathened to sa a celebrity?
@@Battyshorts1 you are wrong. you probably did not even watch the video, based on your statement.
@@sSomeawesomeneSs ight tell me where he said he was gonna sexually assault a celebrity
@@Battyshorts1 watch the video, not gonna do the work for u. xx
@@Battyshorts1you didn’t watch the video, didn’t you
I’m a queer POC swiftie and I absolutely have seen really horrible racist and bigoted comments in defence of Taylor Swift on twitter way too many times, but misogynists really say absolutely disgusting stuff about swifties and Taylor Swift, a group of millions, and justify it when they’re called out by using a minority that most of us would love if they left the fandom. Like you can take accountability without misogyny, and you can call out racism and bigotry without misogyny too.
The point you make is great but Taylor Swift did date a 17-year-old when she was 22 so take that as you will.
@@spiderfart420wait what does that have to do with their comment
@shanayeee spreading the word so more people know that she's kind of a weirdo too. I absolutely do not side with Tyler in this situation
Nobody cares, and he was 18 @@spiderfart420
@@thomaszanesco9536 people that don't like groomers care, mr. Diddy.
In the 2000s, y'all said this about Eminem, too. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Tired of gay men not taking heat for being violently misogynistic and promoting stereotypes that are dangerous to women.
I agree 100% just fyi not gay he’s mayyyyybe bi and doesn’t love people talking abt his sexuality
@@Leostrawberrypretty sure he’s said he’s gay
@@ollieno971 wasn't he bi?
what does him being gay have to do with any of this tho
like genuinely asking
@@d1mbz because usually people excuse queer men behavior a lot all because they're not straight so they can have ,,pass" (I think, not sure, but saw comments talking about it before)
I´m so sick and tired of men using violence against women as a punchline, it is degrading, overused, unfunny and frankly terrifying. What I hate even more is when they turn around and say "It's just a joke", "You don't get it" or "It was a character".
Like at least own up to it
the only time I've ever seen this explanation work is with SXTN in their song Hass Frau
That sounds like more of a you problem
@@notamurderer6226 found one
@@notamurderer6226 It's a problem that all women in the world can relate to. You cannot just act like these feelings aren't valid or based on important issues that need to be spoken about. You're not funny or cool for saying this. Not at all.
@@notamurderer6226 uhhhhhhh sure buddy...
Agree with you on the 'it's not real' defense being used weirdly. The lyrics are still incredibly unhinged and uncomfortable for me, a fan of extreme horror. Taylor Swift is an actual person, bringing her into your batshit insane, borderline sexual fantasy, 'satire' song lyrics goes far beyond a simple fictional narrative. You are directly involving this person and their identity in your attention-seeking bullshit. I'm not even a swiftie and I find this shit really disturbing
Then again, this comment invalidates that a new Tyler, in 2024, who is also an actual person also exists. While I would agree with this comment in 2011 I think we're far beyond that. I do disagree with Tyler telling swifties to listen to Tron Cat, it just kind of invalidates all the progress he's made as a human being.
@Lamellae
I would agree with you if he hadn't mentioned on several recent occasions that he still likes the music he used to make. Him saying that his fans could bring the 'old' him out in a jovial fashion shows that he hasn't really matured. I like Tyler as an artist, but he needs to grow tf up
@@TextbookSadass I try to see it as Tyler appreciating his old music from a production standpoint rather than agreeing with the things he said back then. As a producer, he’s probably more proud of his growth in production skills than his growth as an artist overall. I do agree it’s immature not to clarify that he likes his old music purely for the production (and let’s hope that’s what he means, not the lyrics), but he’s mentioned multiple times that he dislikes some of his older songs production-wise, so I tend to stick with that perspective.
@Lamellae
He should definitely be more clear about it for sure
also are we forgetting his disgusting tweets threating Selena Gomez (also a real person) with rape MULTIPLE TIMES and saying it on video too
waiting for her to turn 18, literally tweeting that horrible shit on her birthday. And not just her but the other women he mentioned like Miley Cyrus and Victoria Justice he also tweeted that awful shit exactly on their 18th birthday, once again including Selena Gomez and Dakota Fanning who was SIXTEEN at the time
It truly surprises me how the commodification of these people's art can be so reductionist to maintain a perceived conflict between marginalized groups with the same enemy.
As a Swiftie, I can admit there absolutely is a racism problem in a segment of the fandom. But geez, those lyrics are awful, full stop. It’s way worse than the Kanye lyrics in Famous, and we all know how that situation went down.
Fr, ofc there was some racism but the amount of genuine criticism far outweighs it
But obviously every problematic thing Taylor or their fans do is excusable and every problematic thing other artist do is inexcusable
imagine being a swiftie in the big september 😂✌
swift is equally as problematic.
@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801they literally never said that and nobody in their right mind is saying it either, both are bad and we should address both. i say this as a tyler fan who has heard like 5 taylor swift songs my whole life.
what tyler did is bad and he shouldn’t have excuses made for him (especially with his remarks implying he still stands by the behavior), and being racist to him in response is also bad and there’s no excuse for that. neither one undoes the other.
As i grow older i kinda realize that old tyler lyrics is basically insane clown posse
it’s because they’re both horrorcore
It’s just horrorcore
I don't think ICP ever rapped about graping teens. Listen to To catch a predator to hear how they feel about that.
@@thesayerofthelaw ICP writes horrorcore without mentioning real life people like Tyler did or talking about r@pe which is why their horrorcore music is actually good. plus like you mentioned they actually have morals and denounce predators.
@@thesayerofthelaw no but they do have lines like "for thirteen she's got some big tits". love icp but that line makes me cringe so bad
edgy lyrics not only reflect society and how when men "break" it *has* to involve violence against women, it allows men to continue to blame any problems of society they deem fit on women. a lot of the times their anger at the world just completely removes the ability to see women as people. and the thing is, i get it, we literally all get wanting to go crazy and tear everything down in your rage against a world that doesn't feel right. but we need to acknowledge that for a society to become better men need to stop weaponizing violence and sexual violence against the perceived threat of The Female. him standing ten toes down on his older art just shows that he is not interested in doing that work!
also like, not to give a point to the redditors but it is really frustrating to see people only care about misogyny when it's within the scope of fandom drama 😮💨 if people cared more maybe he would have been properly pressed and held accountable before rumors of an apology ballooned as big as it did
PERIODTTT!!!!YOU ATEEEE
edgy songs and cult movies are just code for men putting their rape fantasies out there
That's crazy cause I'm pretty sure he mentioned men too in quite a few of the 33 songs he's being called out for 💀
@@Ivyrigs sorry to say, but your comment is completely irrelevant to mine. the issue of the dehumanization of The Female does not start and stop with tyler specifically; it's a pervasive mentality that plagues all of us under patriarchy that requires challenging **constantly**. the desire to sexually subjugate surfaces when upset at a woman (or someone socially deemed feminine enough to deserve the same treatment e.g. j. bieber) is the norm but it should not be normal. if tyler wants to grow as a person and an artist he needs to understand this and his art should reflect it.
I'm old enough to remember his whole beef with Tegan and Sara because Sara called out his homophobic/sexist language. It got nasty, and then he came out with Sara.
It's honestly crazy how far people will go to defend someone even when there is nothing to defend😭😭 being talented doesn't equal being absolved from any criticism!!
ok, but here's my question: what do you want to happen, exactly?
its fiction grow up and stop being soft and i know im gonna get ratioed by someone saying something ridiculous
@NumberOneKenCarsonGlazer bro why are you in so many comments replies abt this💀 u seem hurt bro
@@ConsecDesign Hmm let's see.. For Tyler to actually grow instead of pretending?
@@ScaryRyai i think people should stop pissing themselves over the lyrics (besides the taylor one that ones weird asf) but there are very real things to criticize, did you not see the part where dangelo showed his tweets about selena/taylor/etc?
As an SA survivor, ever since I found out about his past I refuse to support him even tho I did like some of his music. The threats he made were similar to the ones my assaulter made against me. It is NEVER ok, no matter how young you are or if you genuinely believe it or not, to threaten to r@pe someone. Also, as someone who does have intrusive thoughts, I’m fcking sick of the intrusive thoughts argument. You have to be responsible about your thoughts and actions regarding to them. Once you start profiting from them, you aren’t being responsible. I’m so sick of this sh*t and people excusing it instead of recognizing that someone you like has done fcked up things.
Why not profit off your mental illness lol what else is it good for XD- a person with intrusive thoughts
I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I got sick to my stomach seeing this, I can't imaging how survivors must feel.
Hope you're doing something to make you feel better today. Even if it's just watching a silly movie or smth. Lots of love ♥
thats messed up for sure but the album is a fictional story hes not promoting anything bad
@ not talking just about the album, I’m talking about the fcking tweets. It stops being “fictional” when you threaten to do things to real people.
@Sing_A_Rebel_Song Now when Tyler said the he wanted to kill Bruno Mars that was fine that was okay. Because it was directed to a man and as we know murder is not real.
You’re really pushing it on the algorithm. I got recommended this video 54 seconds after you uploaded. Never seen anything like it
Very Fast Dangelo Algoing at Incredible Hihg Speed
recommended ?🤨 not even subscribed.. damn..
@@nathanielryderr I think they meant recommended on their feed but just don’t have push notifications on.
@ i get where you’re coming from but that’s not a recommendation. it’s bound to show if you log on to youtube & are subscribed.
"Rape jokes are just edgy humor for teen boys"
"Nobody ever takes male sexual violence seriously, especially teenagers"
... why do people keep missing the link here and blaming the lack of support for boys and men on women and girls? Half of y'all literally arguing that it's okay for teenagers to joke about it until you know for sure they did it.
Maybe bc all these boys hear about what happened to them is as jokes. Maybe all their friends joke about it so much, that they can't talk about it even in a serious moment without becoming the butt of someone's "edgy joke" that humiliates and shames them for surviving hell. Maybe they don't trust anyone that jokes like this to speak around, and so they don't. Treating this kind of behavior as a granted as a rite of passage for boys only ensures they stay hurt and unhealed while everyone goes through their DARVO phase, and MAYBE eventually "grows out of" talking like and making the same humor as actual rapists. Maybe. Or maybe they stay stuck with a bunch of men and women caping for celebrities and excusing the same sick shit non-famous people did to them, so hard, they still won't want to speak up.
It happened to my best friend in HS and all the "edgy" humor did was hurt him and make him feel like what he went through wasn't serious enough to report. It was, though. I'm sorry I was ever part of that, Nick, if you ever see this. You didn't deserve that. The "jokes" weren't worth your peace and friendship, and you were right to dip on all of us. We may have "changed" but your pain didn't and you don't owe any of us second chances,regardless of how difference we think we are.
not readin allat
People have no nuance whatsoever. It's possible to like an artist and also recognize he's had some terrible lyrics.
right, I’m a huge Tyler fan but I don’t rly listen to his first 2 albums bc of the vulgar lyrics and I think he’s wrong for what he wrote. I’m glad he’s matured though and stopped all that edgy nonsense.
Which mostly has been the case. It’s just the people calling him out aren’t doing it for their own morality and outrage, it’s swifties mad that Tyler got a higher spot than her for A DAY
@@kagexharaz yea as a huge tyler fan now, it make me wonder why he thought it was a good idea to even reference that bs on stage in this age. why not just say, yeaaa this taylor swift shit is lame, i dont really care im just here for the art or some shit
I see what you're saying, but "no nuance ever" is ironically a very unnuanced assertion and it made me giggle hehehe
@@d3rrick10493 rage bait fail, try harder
I like how people are in the comments saying hes changed and rejected the Goblin album as a whole like there isn't a clip of him telling people to go listen to one of the songs from said album. Definitely a sign of growth
And saying that he’ll go back to how he was. To me, a clear sign that he never truly grew and has just been hiding it
he literally says in manfiesto ‘internet bringing old lyrics up like i hide the sh*t. whats your address? i could probably send you a copy b*itch’ like whether hes changed or not he doesnt seem to care about the public’s criticism regardless
I think what he means w that is that "yeah I made that stuff. I was an edgelord, I don't hide it" Like he grew and moved on but it's doesn't think hiding his old stuff is necessary
cry about goblin and bastard are amazing too bad your so soft 😂✌
@@Coconut_Prrson That is a perceptive that makes sense I guess but what do you think of him saying that he can bring back the old Tyler? Is that still him acknowledging his past in your eyes?
The double standards are INSANEE, imagine if a white woman wrote racist lyrics, claimed they were just "a character", and then whined about sexism. That would NEVER EVER fly. Her music would be 100% removed from spotify. Hell, Taylor got shit for saying she wants to live in a world without racism for reasons I still cannot comprehend, and is still getting shit for extremely mildly homophobic lyrics from when she was 17 that *weren't even released*.
Ehh idk about this argument… there are plenty examples of white women abusing their racial privilege over black men. Most famous examples of this are Emmett Till and the Central Park five.
Also holding the oppression Olympics is pointless…. Trying to calculate whether white women or black men have it worse in society ultimately does nothing to fix the problem of misogyny or racism. Let’s just treat it all as bad and call it out when we see it.
I agree with u, thank u for ur comment.
people don't care about sexism, even the men who claim to be leftist or liberal, they will still excuse it, but they will not excuse racism or anti gay stuff which is good but it should be for sexism too.
I am genuinely tired of this hypocrisy.
This is true. This is why Tyler got banned from several countries when he released this album. I genuinely hate how this video and everyone is ignoring that fact that for years Tyler has distanced himself from this body of work and was actually cancelled for it. No one condoned anything he did and we’re all suffering from memory loss
@@ncebinathisithole7559 Did you not watch the video? D'Angelo literally covered how Tyler is still proud of this album, even those songs specifically!
There is so little nuance in these takes. Why are we attacking tyler when there are hundreds of other artists from every era that have made songs about rape, necrophilia, human sacrifice, murder, etc and they aren't criticized because they aren't popular enough to have any attention on them. I can respect if people have a problem with these lyrics. I just don't understand how we are being so choosy about who we go after. Tyler wasn't just making that music because he thought it was edgy. That came from a dark place and I think we can all understand that translating feelings into art is far better than actually doing bad things to other people or yourself.
I've seen lyrics just as outrageous from the grunge and punk scene but we're just going to ignore it because they have 500 listeners on spotify. It is very possible that Tyler associates goblin as one of the good parts of a dark time in his life. Just as Taylor is still a person, Tyler is also still a person, and we don't know who that is. He is very private about his real life and his public one is a persona. He may have matured publicly but he is very likely still struggling through traumatic times in his life. We don't know. I think we are holding both of this celebrities to a standard that no normal human being could live up to.
Worse things are said by comedians on a regular basis and yet because tyler isn't professionally a "Comedian" we are going to raise our pitchforks? It just doesn't add up to me. Goblin was a work of art and it was a fiction, There were many characters and the themes revolved around depression, suicide, anger management issues and many more dark topics. It genuinely is an interesting piece of work if difficult to listen to. If Gorgoroth made the same album no one would bat an eye.
Not trying to defend what he said. I just think that we are not approaching this subject with any nuance.
D'Angelo's video has nuance, i may not personally agree with everything he says, but he doesn't make it out to be Good vs Evil. These comments on the other hand are an insane echo chamber
When I said there was no nuance to these takes I meant in the comments and not in the video.
u look familiar wait
@@samiam2003 I do?
@@patchacuti7338 wait nah u just look like benoftheweek
Respectfully, as a woman, I disagree. Mental health / trauma does not ever excuse bad behaviour. I’d absolutely prefer if everyone got called out when saying horrible stuff like this. One famous person is at least a good start. I simply cannot see rape threats from a forgiving perspective. Not from Tyler, not from anyone. I hope you see where I’m coming from.
Something about this whole situation makes me think of eminem tbh. Like its clearly different, but also the hardcore defense of disgusting and misogynistic lyrics in these songs is wild
I like Eminem's old stuff because I could relate to him rebelling against a world he felt abandoned him. The lyrics were him basically giving a giant middle finger to the world. However, I will admit. Eminem being like 50 and rapping like he's Shady on The Death of Slim Shady sounds like actual sh!t. Eminem is not Slim Shady and Tyler the Creator is not Wolf Hailey.
its fiction
@@WalkingDeadEnjoyer "it's fiction" 🤡
@@WalkingDeadEnjoyer threatening real people with r*pe is NOT a fiction
I completely agree with this! I think that its really fucked that Tyler said that, and more fucked to not acknowledge it. Acting like people are dumb for bringing it up is really fucking gross imo. I dont think that completely disregarding someone as a monster for stuff they said years ago is still a bit much. I understand being turned off by it but people acting like he is the same person now then he was then is really disingenuous. I personally cannot listen to his old albums, just because how disgusting the lyrics are, but listening to his newest album really does show the growth
I'm so glad people are calling out more Hip Hop artists for saying problematic nonsense for years. As a black man, it always made me feel alienated from the genre since 's even the most acclaimed rappers have SA allegations or are just bigoted ass holes. This genre doesn't make me feel seen. It's obscene.
It's nice to hear such a perspective from a man as well. Of course the misogyny is more obvious to women, but men can see it and dislike it if they're truly allies to fellow women, which anyone should be (and vice versa). It's of course the bare minimum, but also a rare minimum, so it makes me happy to see comments like yours :)
Thank you, you opinion brings some faith that not everyone thinks this shit is okay or cool
THANK YOU!!! It's the anti-Stan effect. People are so ready to hate Taylor and her fans that they're willing to overlook valid criticism of someone else if it gives them the opportunity to dunk.
Ehh sort of. I feel like swifties calling Tyler the creator for tweets that are obviously disgusting when she was, as recent as a year or two ago, was actively dating a man who had the same sentiments about black women (Matty Healy). I agree that Tyler the creators tweets and lyrics were disgusting and abhorrent. There’s not excuse whatsoever. This could’ve been an important conversation for everyone to have in regards to criticizing him at any point so why did this start up as soon as Tyler’s album passed up Taylor’s?
Yall were complicit when she was dating Matt Healy racist ass.
Yall are a decade late clutching your pearls and it’s sending me
Ong this whole shit feels so manufactured and soulless like no one irl actually cares
exactly
@@GoatedYeat_Twizzy you are all over this comment section youre like the dude from colossus. Hes not gonna let u hit bro
@@토니-u2l yet you keep finding me so you are also all over this comment section you illiterate ape
as a tyler fan you will NOT catch me defending or even listening to goblin
edit: just want to clarify there's nothing wrong with liking goblin (AS LONG AS you understand some of the lyrics are insane and it's possible to enjoy a song while still criticizing said song's lyrics) it just isn't for me personally
exactly! fans of artists need to understand that you can criticize your fav, hate some of their songs, disagree with some of their actions, etc. and STILL like them and be fans of them. you don’t have to like everything your fav does. and it’s totally okay to dislike or even hate certain things they do. this is coming from a tyler fan as well
you're missing out on some of his best
he obviously wasnt serious in his lyrics its part of the character wolf haley plus goblin is amazing 😂✌
@@GoatedPharrell goblin and bastard are incredible
@@GoatedPharrellnobody thinks he’s being serious, but not being serious or being a character doesn’t just give you the ability to say whatever you want and no one can criticize you for it. to me there’s a level of tact and purpose you need with taboo subjects that those 3 albums don’t have.
TL;DR that’s cool you think goblin is amazing, i don’t.
Eminem's old music was very much like Tyler's old stuff. That Slim Shady ish is unhinged.
But nobody's ready for that discussion...
@@acciousername6776he gets flamed on twitter like every month lmfao
even his more recent stuff too... like come on, why is misogyny literally everywhere 😭
Yup. But he came up at a time when it was ok to say that so he's protected by millennial nostalgia.
If you come for him, people will see it as coming for millennial values.
As a millennial, I never f-ed with him. That same strategy was used to excuse R. Kelly's behavior for years until it couldn't be ignored.
Artists are allowed to explore dark avenues in their art, just be prepared for the consequences for the rest of your life.
Probably why Van Gogh wasn't trying to hear it 😂
@@acciousername6776 They were having those conversations back in the late 90s, and that’s how Eminem got the persona of “the rapper that scares your parents”. Those conversations already happened, and if anything, it only made him more popular
Imagine defending him bc “he’s a creative genius” or “was a teenager” as if he was a small infant child writing trash like this from his play pen or something lmaooo insane💀
but it sounds good so i'll let it pass
@@volatilevipxr3694worst take ever
@@businesszeus6864 but it sounds good and it's music so who cares
This was almost 14 years ago yall
@@Afrogirrl pls watch the entire video.
Nobody who actually struggles with intrusive thoughts will not only write that down, but sing it and publicize it. Intrusive thoughts come from shame that’s why we struggle to talk about it and admit it. I don’t understand the fandom’s excuses related to his OCD
I 100% support growing as a person, changing, and becoming a better person. I support forgiving people for things they have done in the past. I think society can only ever benefit from that. But taking accountability and being genuinely remorseful for past actions is the only way to build a bridge to that. If he has genuinely changed and regrets these things, he would not be doing this shit. If you love someone, you should be holding them accountable because you want to see them become a better person, as D'Angelo is doing here. Your idols, and also people in your own life, are flawed people, and the kindest thing you can do is let them know when they are fucking up and/or going down the wrong path. I speak from personal experience.
Exactly, if he was sorry I think it would be explicitly clear and not just "moving on" and hoping people forget
@@daniv8500 He Has Already Apologized............. Years Ago, This Is Old Drama That Keeps Being Brought Up, He Is Clearly Sick Of Having To Talk About Things He Did 14 Years Ago That He Already Has Moved On From And Changed From, Swifties Were Calling Him A Monkey And Other Racial Slurs
@@FuzzylilLemon he knew what he was doing and being tried of it doesn't mean you don't need to accountability
@@yumalove7223 Why Does He Still Need To Take Accountability For Something He Did 14 years ago and has changed from
This deserves more likes, if you want to truly grow as a person and if you want others to grow and change as people, you have to stop it at it's source and let them know when they're going down a bad road and encourage them to stop
That's the problem with a lot of groups online, they don't want to stop the behavior as it's happening, they'd rather wait until everyone's drowning in garbage to call it out so they can push some performative retribution and isolate them from everyone
This is not a defense of Tyler specifically, I think it's whack that he's threatening to "go back to the goblin era" as if he hasn't learned anything, this is a much bigger systemic issue that needs to be addressed
Also, it's disgusting that people use one minority group to attack another, I get that Tyler's lyrics are vile, but don't be racist towards him, same way that you shouldn't attack LGBT people to denounce racism and vice versa
the most important thing you can do as a fan of someone is to be able to criticize them and acknowledge their wrongdoings.Tyler is my favorite artist of all time, Igor is my favorite album ever, i’ve had CHROMAKOPIA on repeat all week, but I can’t get into any of his pre-wolf stuff mostly because of the lyrics. the only songs i re listen to there are yonkers and she. its very unhealthy behavior to attempt to defend everything people do so you just gotta admit when something’s wrong.
exactly!! you don’t have to agree or like everything your fav does! i feel like stan culture and fan wars have people bending their morals to defend their fav left and right. being able to acknowledge that your fav did something wrong is so important and not a skill many people on the internet practice today
@@GoatedPharrella character that named real women for his r*pe threats. Okay.
@@GoatedPharrell dude ur a bot
@@Womster u spitting but i can’t help but like goblin because i genuinely don’t see it as anything other than a character and i like the edginess it’s like meta and cringe but in a really good way. but he should NOW in this day and age be able to apologize to swift for speaking on her like that without bringing up her racist fans bec that has nothing to do with her, tbh fck taylor but either way id like to see tyler apologize honestly
i don’t think this would be as big of a discourse if he just didn’t use real people. something like Sarah is incredibly shocking but all of it’s a story and the girl is fictional, it does what it sets out to do, once you bring selena gomez and taylor swift into it then it becomes bigger than the music and it’s really gross
I think the biggest problem I have with Tyler in this situation is that he really doesn’t have any reason about hyping up “the old me”.
You can’t have this new era and moment of change when you threaten to return to your old ways like a super villain. It discounts it and makes it feel like he still feels the way he used to.
If he had just said he changed as a person and that was in the past then this could've been so different.
I do not really think he meant to say bring out the old me as in bring it out of myself, but more so, bring it out of my past to criticize it. I think its really poor phrasing
you made a whole video supporting doja cat saying her behavior was okay cuz she's "just trolling" n the stuff she was doing wasn't nearly 15yr ago
Some people like to be selective about what they are outraged over that's why.
Oh he did that? Wow, this should be like a top comment
Did Doja "joke" about raping specific people?
What did Doja actually say? Can you quote it for me?
@@whocares151she was blocking her boyfriends rape accusers and wearing a Sam Hyde shirt and he’s a pedophile so like
Threatening to go back to a behavior you denounced completely negates the denouncing of that behavior.
🤷
Edit:
His growth FEELS like a face save, and he got tired of saving that face. I am not saying he is that way, I am simply saying that's the vibe.
It's always racists like you trying to put people down. Attacking a person's character repeatedly will get annoying. Every album drop people villainize tyler using his old songs and old tweets, so of course he will get tired of it and respond. Check your privilege
@@Fckthatgolfwang if he didnt want people attacking his character/morals, he shouldn't have made the song to begin with. Tyler has admitted multiple times that he made the song to be controversial, but now is upset that he is getting controversy? He got what he wanted. You reap what you sow.
🗣️🗣️🗣️
His "growth" is just him trying not to get canceled lol. Easy to not say the thing to protect yourself, doesn't mean you don't want to
I mean, it was very immature, but an offhand comment isn’t representative of him as a person. His past misogyny should absolutely be called out, but his actual growth shouldn’t be denoted. I’m not defending anything he has done, but it’s not like he’s been hiding a dark side because he said one misogynistic thing.
"It's just fiction" should never involve real people. Violent fantasies about real people is NOT the same thing as writing a violent fanfiction of characters that don't exist
And when you DO write that fiction don't go "tee hee maybe!" if people ask about you being a rapist
it was involving popular musicians in the industry at the time. he hated the industry at the time, he was talking about like killing bruno mars and shi
@@eggskrodi5222 killing and raping are two very different things buddy. one is explicitly misogynistic.
@@passiveaggresivesquirrel2052 neither of those crimes are inherently misogynistic, but women are definitely more vulnerable to the latter
@ SA against men/boys happens too yk… you must have a pretty one dimensional understanding of what he said/why he said those things. how about just appreciate the man he is now instead of expecting him to hate on his teen self who did what he had to do to get his career off the ground (in this case, rap about crazy shit for attention). Instead of deriving opinions from shock-value tweets and opinion videos made to entertain you more than anything else
@@NerdcoreWasTakenWrong answer, mouth-breather. Log off.
If he's moved on from this period why purposely call back to it?
He said “they’re gonna bring out the old me” Has he really moved on?
Because he has never publicly denounced what he wrote in the past and tends to hide behind the fact that either he was young or it was all just for shock value. He seems like he’s matured, but has he really?
Although he obviously doesn’t rap or talk about r*ping women anymore it’s kind of weird he’s still quick to defend himself rather than publicly acknowledge it was fucked up and not okay in hindsight.
He literally said that they were bringing up old stuff, he was just saying it’s stupid and made a joke about it
@@Bratgirly joking about being a rapist isn’t funny.
@@Bratgirly He brought it up. He put a spotlight on it. He played stupid games, won stupid prizes and now is complaining about it.
yeah you're right about all this. I'm a huge tyler fan flower boy and later, and unless he like triples down on this shit I'm not going to feel bad for listening to him.
but it's not his best moment, and if it's gonna make anyone angry and sick of listening to him, then go for it. valid.
tyler needs to not be dumb about this shit, even if it messes with him.
exactly
Eh Wolf still my GOAT album
I think a lot of people also just don’t care about women and misogyny. That’s why we don’t all finally acknowledge that “bitch” is an obvious misogynistic slur. Because that means we’d have to give up a word that feels so integral to so many communities and also general vernacular, which many people would rather not do, and instead continue perpetuating misogyny because it’s what’s most comfortable
Finally an actual well thought out comment that doesn't in any way shape or form act like the artist and his content is in any way okay. It's so problematic to treat the topics of rape and mysogyny the way our culture does, and it's the primary reason most victims don't come forward. And people are either way over desensitized, don't care, never felt it was that bad to begin with.... The comments on this video are honestly depressing, disheartening, and honest to God show such a severe detachment from the reality of how bad rape and misogyny are.
Twas a very bad comment section to read today, because my own PTSD from rape... I just didn't expect to see so many men and women defending this artist and people like him, and their content... Sometimes it feels like it'll never get better, and there's actual regret that I didn't just take the pills after years of my own abuse... Seeing people act like this is just.... Why even bother when it'll never get better in society, and when people don't give enough of a shit about rape and abuse of women to even just act like it's actually bad. It'll never change, because society just accepts rape and abuse, and excuses it.
@@SomeoneIusedtoknow-s1f I'm really sorry that this comment section was so triggering to read through. It's really hard whenever you're reminded the sheer scale of rape culture. It's basically the "explaining water to a fish" analogy. We're so entrenched in it as a society that acknowledging its existence, or the fact that it's wrong and should be addressed, feels crazy and overblown to a majority of people. To be honest, I really don't talk to men these days. Too many midnight phone calls from friends telling me they were just raped and needed someone to talk to or somewhere to crash for the night. Ill watch men's youtube content, but thats it. I think it's most important to keep yourself safe, both physically and mentally. I didn't even bother to read through the comments on this video, because if they agreed with me then yay awesome, if they didn't then my faith in humanity to grow and improve would just dwindle further. My peace is too valuable to jeopardize with youtube comments. While we can't change the minds of society on our own, we can curate the company we keep and try to find as much solace and safety as we can. Stay safe and take care of yourself ❤️
sitting with my mouth agape in awe of just how stupid this comment is
i do agree that "bitch" is overall a harmful word to use, especially towards women, but what communities are you specifically referring to because that doesn't make sense to me
100% people genuinely don't care. The amount of people on twitter DEFENDING these lyrics/tweets is absolutely crazy
As a horrorcore fan myself the line he crossed was naming a real person, you don’t do that man that’s a harassment.
Edit: And also the actual harassment I had not gotten to that part yet oh my god
womp womp little monkey child 😂✌ keep listening to that edgy shit😂✌😂✌
exactly!! i personally have some really really awful intrusive thoughts, like actually disgusting stuff, and i’ve often written poems and shit about it and i’d probably write songs about it if i had any musical talent at all. i think it’s really interesting to chronicle those kind of things and the darker side of mental illness and stuff (feeling like you’re going crazy, feeling like someone/something is controlling you/your thoughts, feeling like a terrible person, imagining doing horrible things, etc etc), but bringing real people into it is where the line is. id never write about real people, even if they are in the intrusive thoughts i have. idk if tyler is actually writing about mental illness in the way i described or if he’s just doing edgy stuff, but i think it applies in general. i don’t like the idea of art/music being restricted by what’s palatable and non offensive because that’s just not what life is like and it’s not authentic, but you can’t bring real people into it and talk about doing awful things to them.
@Waxxien So when he said he wanted to kill Bruno Mars that was going too far too? Why no one gets offended about that?
@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801 Maybe some did and you're just being selective about it?
@@GoldenWreck "Maybe some did" so we are not even sure but we are going to pretend those people exist. I dont see most of you mentioning it in the comments so not so sure thats the case.
To all other tyler fans, as a long time tyler fan, including his goblin era stuff- he does not need you guys to defend him. It is indefensible, edgey, weird shit. You are not his friend, nor do you know him as a person so you have no reason to protect his image. In fact you could very well think he's a dickhead if you met him. If he wanted to be seen in a certain way, he would say it for himself.
"if you wanted to be seen a certain way he would have just said so himself" yeah he did on the album, that's what we're complaining about, D'Angelo basically ignoring that part
@@RenTalksAbout no, some of you guys are adding in extra stuff which he did not explicitly say. I've seen the defense a lot that he regrets the edgey stuff he said simply bc of that comment he made about goblin, but he never says that. To this day, even on the new album, he hasn't explicitly denounced everything. D'anfelo did not ignore the comments he made in the album, unless you're talking about another part that you wanna point out.
@@soloheroina "you adding extra stuff" my brother in Christ it's literally in the album. My problem is he is ignoring the context of the songs and acting like this is the stuff he would actually do which is stupid. Yes a lot of the stuff Tyler said in the past was overly edgy and yes there is literal things he said the show that he does not regret it the entirety of sorry not sorry it's really him saying yeah I don't care. But to act like he would actually do these things and accusing him of being a misogynist is dumb very very dumb especially when the album literally focuses on untreated mental health/dark intrusive thoughts and what happens with that get to ignored. You can argue he went too far with it that's fine but calling him a misogynist over this stuff when there's actual shitty people in the industry who are rapping about this stuff but being serious about it is ignorant in its own right which is what he was complaining about people doing to Halsey mere days ago he's doing to Tyler now. I'm not defending it Tyler because he's my favorite artist I'm criticizing D'Angelo because he handled this topic in the one of the worst ways you could and came off extremely hypocritical
I could care less about his image more so I care about people actully wanting to control speech because they handle what someone is saying
@@notamurderer6226he’s making millions regardless of, wdym freedom of speech lmao
this seems to be more about fandom wars rather than the artists at play.
like i distinctly remember Tyler breaking down why he did all that 'horror core' stuff and why he grew out of it. it was due to how isolated he was when he was younger, with very little life experience. thats why it was all shock value & juvenile. as he grew up he obviously had a much more well experienced life.... thus, he could make music about way better subject matters.
people that try to downplay his past as like 'oh it was just a joke' or whatever are obviously oversimplifying it. but there are dumb fans of everyone and everything.
my problem with how (some, not all) taylor swift fans are handling the situation is that a lot of them are being racist to tyler in response. i agree that he needs to be held accountable for his old lyrics and that they're really bad, but calling out misogyny by being racist is exactly how we get into situations like this.
i know right! it's so fucking disgusting, and it doesn't help the case at all. like, if you wanna make a valid point, maybe don't be a dick in the process? people will most likely dismiss the critic because of the way you are choosing to deliver it
i don't think we need to bring up fictional lyrics, we should focus on the actual shit he said about taylor/selena/etc.
@@the-postal-dude We should absolutely talk about Tyler’s old lyrics. Even if he’s rapping about a fictional scenario, the way he treats sensitive subjects matters. By framing serious topics as casual or using them as “throwaway” lines, he risks trivializing real issues and reducing them to edgy punchlines. Art, especially in music, isn’t created in a vacuum; every line contributes to a larger cultural narrative. When an artist like Tyler, who has such a significant following, raps about violence, misogyny, or other charged themes without thoughtful context, it can seem as though these issues are unimportant or worth laughing off.
@@bbybluebutterfly "throwaway lines"? brother he was rapping about his intrusive thoughts
the problem is he’s already held himself accountable, he says he doesnt like his past lyrics and has called them (as well as the people who condone them) edgy as hell. this never had to be a drama, but people tend to do this whenever he drops an album
eminem has gotten away with some crazy lyrics as well the shit he said about brittany spears and miley cyrus ect was insane even for the time. glad people are starting to face backlash for making rape threats to people
that was deadass like 25 years ago you guys cant be serious 😂✌
@@WalkingDeadEnjoyer fifty three comments of meat riding is crazy
Yeah "backlash"
@@nessie7306 You said it 💀
The Marshall mathers lp is one of the greatest albums in hip hop history, where there’s a lyric about r@ping his own mother. Goes to show the if the music is great, people won’t care.
I never really cared about Tyler’s edgy stuff because I knew he was doing it for shallow attention and to shock people, and Swifties do indeed have a bit of a racism problem. But I do think he messed up a bit by teasing that Swifties would “bring back the old me”.
He’s implying he hasn’t truly grown as a person and is capable of just taking off that mask and being immature again… while performing and promoting an album that centers around being your true self and a character that wears a mask.
Then again, he’s self-admittedly a troll so I would take all of this with a grain of salt. Maybe it was just in the heat of the moment, I don’t know.
Can you blame him for being upset at the people calling him every slur in the book?
@Senchi3 Yeah like I said, lots of Swifties kept calling him shit related to monkeys and other animals even after his statement about their racism, I don’t blame him for that
I'm literally like "y'all he is trolling", he is literally contemplating continuing his career right now and people think he is gonna return to his most disliked era. It's obvious he doesn't mean it.
as a swift and tyler fan, it is disappointing to see this collide. rape isn't a shock factor, it will always be grotesque. racism is awful, but don't threaten rape.
@@draineweYT literally i been saying it was just a heat of the moment thing and id respond the same way as him with all the insane names they’ve been calling him 😭
I don't even like taylor swift, but wtaf 😭 "it's not real" no, but you still really said it
Nah I’m sorry but even with an “apology” how’re you 19 and talking about raping and beating women like it’s cool. This isn’t rocket science, this isn’t even basic empathy, you already know what consent is by the time you’re like six at the latest
It was 10+ years ago, what he did was wrong but he can’t change that hiw
Unfortunately, too many people learn that in high school or after 😭😭
its fiction grow up
14 years ago…….
Are people capable of change? Or here’s the better question, are people ALLOWED to change?
And ah yes, my parents sat me down at the ripe age of 6 years old to discuss sex and consent. Fuck off.
@@ScaryRyai not an excuse LOL, but I’m leaning Tyler on this obe
rape threats aren’t jokes? how do people wanna justify this wtf
I don't know if you wrote the first question as in "how can someone think contrary to this" but it can also be read as a genuine question. I suspect you mean the first but if so, might need some clarification.
Because its against taylor swift
@@Mizushimeee then what about selena gomez
@@Mizushimeeeyeah guys lets condone this to a certain artist !!!!!
@@Mizushimeee AND????? SO WHAT IF ITS TO HER???
Its topics like this that make me glad that I deactivated my Twitter. No one is right here. Tyler can't lower all criticism down to racism and bring up one of his WORST eras. Tyler fans can't downplay everything they've seen and show no receipts to "apologies". Swifties can't act like there aren't actual racist people in their group using this time to be racist. Everyone did something wrong. I just want to enjoy Chromakopia man
Exactlyyy but the Swifties always have to show “receipts” on all the horrible things a certain artist did its tiring
@@b19wing_inslowmotionSOME swifties and it doesn't matter it's literally r4pe sh1t about taylor and selena clown
@@b19wing_inslowmotionwhat? Are people not supposed to call out horrible behavior with receipts now? You just want mere accusations like what TikTok does and have a herd believe on it now?
realest
And the only one who is doing it right here is, ironically, Taylor herself by not wasting her time on it
I'm a Swiftie and I agree that there is a lot of racism in the fandom, but in this case it was Tyler's fans who started attacking Taylor first after he surpassed her on Spotify and the fans rescued these lyrics to "refutes them" and at no point did they mention Tyler's skin color.
I first listened to Sarah recently on the bus as it came up in my youtube radioo. I didn't really pay attention to the lyrics until like halfway, and I started crying. It reminded me of my ex who had fantasies of r*ping and necro to a similar extent. Despite that, I liked the song; I support problematic, shocking art because a lot of things in life are shocking and are gross for no reason and frankly, lot of people I've met who engage with or create media like that (including me) are victims or witnesses of the abuse.
However the line is always drawn at real people, you can be a horror artist without directing threats to real people, there are people who have made some evil horrible shit but irl they are well adjusted and very nice. At the end of the day, the minute you bring that into irl its over, especially if you are an adult, you should know self restraint and know how to handle your media. I knew about Tyler's old discography but those tweets about Selena and Taylor are just sick, and its even worse people are trying to defend it by saying he was 19/20.
dude its a storyline its art grow up 😂✌
@@GoatedPharrell nice bait and good reading comprehension, literally said i liked Sarah and support dark problematic art, my disgust comes from his real comments about real people. Please read a comment before you reply
@@peacaca6021 i love how you guys always say "read the comment" and then edit it 😂✌goblin and bastard are fire grow up and stop being such a soft baby 😂✌😂✌
@@GoatedPharrell i agree, goblin and bastard are fire, n the only edits i made were for spelling, have a good day bro
@@GoatedPharrell as a tyler fan you're extremely annoying. you're not even worth talking to cuz you refuse to accept the fact that this comment was completely written in good faith cuz they dissed your king. when you make disturbing and shocking media, you only look like a baby for getting upset when people are shocked and disturbed. don't be braindead
I think one of the biggest part why young people like tyler (as a person outside of songs) is because of the narrative of him growing out from the old self , finding this new path and still being funny , coming out of the closet and getting more accepting of himself . I related to this , i used to be horrible, cracking offensive jokes as a 16 year old , but i grew up , grew out , saw this artist making cool music and got to know about his past and his change , his humor being still funny after he stopped being a complete asshole , so i thought of him as an idol , a fellow bisexual lmfao who had an asshole phase or some shit like that. its confusing , i still like him a lot but very disappointed saying he will go back to his edgy self that too in a threating way...
im so uncomfortable i hate being a woman
edit: was talking about tyler's comments NO SHIT SHERLOCK.
Same
Same it just makes my skin crawl and makes me feel hopeless
*the comments and lyrics are what I’m referring to
I will never understand why we're so hated. Why so many men fantasise and demand they can hurt us.
@ fr why are we only objects that they can control and manipulate to them instead of real humans
ngl males ruin evrything, even music
I agree with the argument that just because someone makes amazing art, that shouldn’t excuse them from the consequences of what they say or do. And I really love flower boy and Igor, hell I just bought the vinyls for them last week. And I like chromakopia too, I’ve had it on repeat. But even I caught myself trying to defend this person of the things that they’ve said, and I don’t know them personally like that. “It was years ago!” But even so, that shouldn’t be an excuse. Nor should the “I was crazy back then” quote excuse what you say or do. Women already got it hard, but defending this kind of talk about women being hurt isn’t cool, even if it was years ago. It’s WRONG. And we need to be better than that.
As a person who's not a fan of any of these ppl
Its fucking wild how Tyler literally brought up the past tweets and old album himself when he announced it on stage, but is then surprised when ppl r shocked by wtf it is.
Not everyone knew the old tyler so seeing that was probably like whiplash
Also the swifties being racist is nothing new. Its bullshit how ppl cant call out nasty behavior without also being nasty.
i dont think brought up past tweets and album
Just, the nerve of Tyler's fans to be criticizing people for "digging up old lyrics" when he literally told Swifties to go read those lyrics.
When will we as a society stop patting men on the back and labeling them as geniuses for making songs out of their disturbing intrusive thoughts
“B-B-but it’s important for awareness!” He didn’t even outwardly mention that they were intrusive thoughts + he continued to proudly rap and profit off of it + it’s still triggering and harmful
to victims of SA
@ Amen. Coming from an SA victim diagnosed with OCD and intrusive thoughts are rampant
@@lun4r.st4rr "he continued to proudly rap and profit off of it" It's an album from 2011. You can literally watch several interviews where he calls his old music garbage. Specifically one where he says that he used to make gross and insane lyrics in the past just to make people mad but he stopped when he realized he wanted his music to have an actual meaning.
They calls a genius because he makes good music not because of that song
@@racebulinso… youre saying he didnt stop because he developed empathy for the women he was harassing or came to a realization that the shit he was saying was abhorrent regardless of context. he only stopped because he decided he wanted to be taken seriously?
Tyler had matured. He went from trying to offend everybody to look "cool" and now rests in his fame and success.
im sorry but tyler the creator still sounds like a misogynist to me. thats an insane thing to reference NOW.
also so uncomfortable that as a 19 YEAR OLD HE WAS SAYING THAT ABT REAL WOMEN. thats disgusting i never knew abt this n honestly will not listen to him anymore (not a super fan anyways.... )
do your research or actually listen to the albums its a storyline just like how Jason Voorhees kills people its ART its MEDIA grow up 😂✌
@@GoatedPharrellthose tweets aren’t art bro
@FweahFweahSeeyuh bro calm down, ur everywhere
@@Cashhhhew the tweets he apologized for IN PERSON 😂✌ you guys are just blindly hating and dont have valid arguments
Bruh he made one joke about that, it’s the same as Eminem and slim shady
Unrelated: But as a fan of Tyler's music, I felt disappointed when I noticed he used the D slur in his newest album.
He might not talk about rape, murder, cannibalism etc. in his newer songs, but he still shows that he hasn't matured in that area which upsets me.
What D slur?
What's the d slur? When did this happen omfg
@@Douchebag97 It's a slur used against lesbian people. I can't say it but it's basically pronounced 'bike' but replace the b with d.
Do u mean dyke?
what track? Listenend to it front to back a couple of times and didn't catch it, what's the context?
i dont know why people say hes changed and grown up as if he doesnt say the d slur for lesbians in his last album? he loves saying stuff to rile people up because he finds it entertaining and that is weird and childish
Yeah I'm a huge T fan but that d slur lyric tripped me out
they gonna still find a way to defend him anyway lmfao. and isnt he gay? why he doing stuff like that??
nahhh as a lesbian i don’t care, i feel like saying dyke is such a horrible slur is kinda… forced ngl
@@julius-ceasaras another lesbian. It is. Know your history
@@julius-ceasar how you feel personally doesn't erase the historical baggage that word holds.
Rape threats are not funny period unless u are so disconnected from other human beings that u cannot imagine being on the receiving end of that kind of horrific harassment