Near infinite capital, top developers in the industry, and all the time in the world. And the only game they've produced in recent memory died in a week.
Sounds like Valve has broken management structure and toxic office environment, that makes any meaningful production process impossible. IMO Steam and old games are the only reason Valve is still rolling strong. Really sad, this is.
Vox3l-Gl1tch The reason Artifact failed was because of the way it dealt with its cards. Not because it lacked soul and the developers only wanted a quick buck. And why would Valve waste resources to only make a quick buck?
"Avoid teams with old timers as they tend to be incredibly toxic" "The way to shut down these teams is to starve them of new hires" TF2 team: -starved of new hires -mostly old timers Oh no
@@communistpootisbirb That's why a be friends with your co-workers culture for Valve doesn't work. You can uniquely vary benefits with your friends as they need it, but you can't at work. However, with lack of structure,everyone's awful experience will feel personalized and isolating. Maybe they just need to fork the org in a few ways and maintain the weak structure, using the oldguard as a coordinating body.
@@diemap i mean, valve is not doing much in the last years, or at least is what it seems because there is no communication, they seem lazy and Gabe isn't doing anything about that, there isn't any control or order on what are they doing
@@IamKAyrox start of redesign, Steam Proton, many VR and hardware stuff, new game - Artifact (even if it fail), many big game updates like CS:GO Battle Royale and i really looking forward to Steam TV, because i like this idea. It looks like they are doing nothing, but when you look closer - they do lot of stuff
5 років тому+1
Yeah don’t believe that bullshit to be a ceo of a company at that scale you can’t just play games all day he does a lot of managing he just disclosed all the contract work
@@kingofscotland7268 Yeah, that said, there is like a new movement, they call themselves "Left Libertarian", they are basically just Socialists. They are fucking disgusting. That said, I would love to work with ACTUAL libertarians! In fact, that would be my dream. Actual thoughtful Libertarians are the most amazing people I've ever met in my life. But on 1 good libertarian there are at least 9 stupid hipster libertarians who just jump on this train but don't really understand what it is really about at it's core. If you haven't read "Hans-Hermann Hoppe", "Ludwig von Mises" or "Rothbart", you're probably no real libertarian and just follow a new ideology that will soon be formed and misleading people into anther believe system. Praxeology is the first step of understanding humanity, and after that you can understand economy and everything else.
@Melchor Herrera Maybe that one little thing that given how the title of this video is worded, one could say it's reasonable to expect an interview of sorts with 1 or 2 people that talk about their experiences in the company, followed that by VNN's input on the matter. But of course since it's VNN, he goes through the path of least resistance and spends half an hour on reading Glassdoor reviews (an activity we all could do in our own spare time), without providing text on the screen, reading all reviews with the same tone which makes it difficult to define when one ends and another one starts, and on top of that substituting said lack of on-screen text with relatively boring, unskilled gameplay probably hardly anybody gives a flying fuck about. This results in a cheap and bland video that could have been rendered in half the time, if not less, had it not been for the gameplay in the background. Just put a goddamn microphone picture as a still image so it's a clear signal RIGHT FROM THE GET-GO there's nothing interesting to WATCH here. Maybe if Tyler at least added a remark, critique, his own thought, ANYTHING inbetween the reviews, only then could this piece be less dull. Still not to the point of it being even mildly entertaining, but at least a step in the direction of practicality/discussion standpoint. There is absolutely NO reason for this video not to have a title closer to "Ex-employees' reviews on Valve on Glassdoor". I even wanted to add "- and my take on it" but sadly, this is not the case here unless you wanted to stretch that argument so thin to encompass "Uhhhhh.... yikes" at 29:20. We should expect slightly better quality for a 30-minute long video from someone who pays their bills by living off of UA-cam and Twitch. So yeah, it is a clickbait, not the first and most certainly not the last one from him. For what it's worth, this is the main reason I've been unsubscribed from VNN for over a year now and once in a blue moon I stumble upon his video, my predictions remain true. A low-effort material with a catchy title, the same sort you'd expect from mainstream news outlets or conspiracy theorists. And the answer to such a ridicule of a viewer's time (and intelligence) is very simple: an adblock.
After listening to these I think we can draw a few conclusions: -The work environment at Valve at the time of writing of these reviews was/is as cynical and toxic as we've heard it was/is. -The "flat structure" is a facade that at this point seems to do more harm than good. -Tyler has indeed been right about most things. -Most of the old-timers, while being a relic of the nostalgic "old valve" are a net negative for the company and contribute to the toxic and stressful work environment. -Gabe himself is regarded highly even by those who leave Valve and scoff at the company in general, but barely has an active role in the company anymore and therefore has to either step up and be active in the company again or just step down.
This video is very late to the party. Some months ago other outlets discussed a long twitter chain by an ex-VALVE employee, which is included in this video (along with other reviews, as I understand).
I think valve needs a reformation. Tyler should hammer his 95 Theses of gamedevelopment onto valves head quarter. Maybe this video starts a revolution. But dont forget the time, tyler missed his free HTC Vive.
Its feels like Valve turned into the Gman from the end of Half-Life; "Illusion of free choice", except if you take the deal, you don't ever wake up from stasis.
I wrote a research paper on Valve last year and I talked about most of the points made in your video. I think it would honestly be horrible to work there. The stack ranking system is probably one of the worst things as it is, like you said, relatively subjective and isn't based on evidence. Anyone who is labelled below par would become so demotivated and I would imagine it begins to corrupt their minds, as you also noted in the video and begin to put their bonus ahead of anything else. The flat laissez faire culture sounds hip and trendy on paper, but it just doesn't work as, like you said again, results in no accountability and no clear directions. That said, it's a sham anyway as evidenced by many ex-valvers. I think the senior hidden hivemind is probably the most disgusting thing about the company. I can't imagine being in a situation where you either kiss senior employee's asses, or expect to be bullied until you quit or get shoved out. Over the years I think people are seriously questioning Valve's strategies to the point of which they are no longer seen as a desirable company to work for. This will seriously impact their talent pool and will hurt the company in the future. Valve seriously needs to step up their PR and game development strategies because their customers are past the point of waiting and are seriously angry. Eventually this will bite them in the ass if they don't shape up.
Hopefully the extra competition in the digital platform space will force Valve to finally wake up before they lose most of their talent and also their lead in the market share. Monopolies don't last forever, especially when a company grows complacent.
@@flytrapYTP Aperture never released anything publicly past their glory days, they just tested internally in vastly inefficient ways, while Black Mesa got all the govt contracts.
@@flytrapYTP Aperture worked on a lot of random fucking things that never saw the light of day. Who knows how many cancelled projects Valve is sitting on based on this vid.
@@AesculapiusPiranha Plus, the stuff Valve does realease is so cumbersome or unattractive to the average user that something else takes its place, kinda how most of apertures stuff is too expensove and ineffecient to be put to use
No, it's just that TF2 team is filled with old timers. As the reviews said, old timers are toxic, it's most probably that TF2 team gets the most support from Gabe and that is why it gets away with not releasing updates for above a year.
@Who Shot the Dog Probably from all that reaserch you do to see where the market is going. gotta get a feel of whats out there. if that means a few rounds of apex ledgends well thats what it means.
Currently ive been doing the hammer editor for 2 years, mostly to become a game deisgner hopfully at valve. Anyways if you get accepted you are prob a person who does it because they like it, I like designing shit and thats why they do this system.
Aspiring game programmer: I want to work on fun games for Valve! Valve: *Office politics* It was time for the programmer to leave. He had seen everything.
Office politics is everywhere, thats why momma always told me to get along with my colleagues and bosses (No bosses in this case, but rule still applies).
There is no such thing as a true flat structure. Like Tyler said, theoretically, Valve has a flat structure in place with no bosses and supervisors, but people naturally gain "social points" and unofficially climb up the ranks.
I would imagine the "flat structure" is a by-product from the days when Valve was still a small group of people, where they had similar mindset and goals to actually make meaningful progress on projects and stuff.
@@_remblanc I think it could be fixed by making the workplace more of a democracy, with the CEO being elected, and various team leads also being elected. Those people can then manage things and provide feedback which can give structure to those who desire it while still being accountable to employees. Firings could require a vote all involved, and the reasons would need to be presented before the entire company. Worker COOP's already exist, valve is kind of one, but kind of not. They should go all the way
@@Radi0he4d1 they've worked for many years though... I am not closed to improvement, but they did not ask for feedback neither looked existing alternative ways to play competitive like TF2Center. That is exactly the lack of "care" and listening to customer's feedback they talk about.
I'm not going to pretend to understand how game developing OR high level office jobs operate. But the positive reviews sort of made it sound like this is a place where extremely talented and intelligent people can produce nothing and reap the benefits. Paid employee vacation, gyms, personal trainers, spousal care, barber shops, catering, no bosses, jump teams as you wish. Is there ANY centralized authority at Valve? Do employees need to show ANY work? I'm genuinely curious, because the review made it sound like an adult playground.
@@iratepirate3896 Even with such massive customer base its only a matter of time but Im affraid this disease will go terminal before anyone even thinks about going to a doctor.
Well, I have spoken to someone that said similar things about EA's offices, or at least the one he works at, a few years ago. It has relaxation rooms, areas to play games for "play testing," I think a buffet though that one I can't be quoted on, and even a fucking ball pit. He regarded working at that building as a dream, and an enjoyable experience, but at the same time he's also an IMMENSELY talented coder that's essentially desirable by anyone that sees his resume, so once again, the talented get treated very well, while everyone else is thrown in the wood chipper. This seems to be a pattern, and given we know how awful EA is, and now with this about Valve coming to light, it's sadly feeling like Valve is only a few missteps away from being another EA if they aren't careful. Because let's face it, the clear hierarchy of "old timers" that's made themselves established there basically run the place, and all they need to do is make a few bad decisions, and it's downhill. They have more power than the actual man in charge because he just sits in his office playing games, completely unaware of anything going on.
Tyler, I know this is a one off video, but if you are willing to accept a bit of constructive criticism, I think clearly separating the reviews that you read would be nice
Without much to separate individual reviews, I like to think this was a single former employee who just kept forgetting what they had already covered and repeated themselves endlessly
So essentially, it's just as it was expected. Higher-ups being absolute pricks, completely happy with being rich, but also being tyrants and ruling over the workers with what is essentially a gossip system, and then Gabe just... not doing anything, at all. If valve is as what it was reviewed to be, it needs some changes, alot of them.
modern valve is on gabe, he could of kept things like a regular game company, but he got other ideas along the way. All that BS about people working on what they want, lol
positives: 6 minutes negatives: 24 minutes sources of information: none visual graphs and figures to support lecture: none expertise in working at valve: none ad revenue money: all of it thanks to a half-assed informational video, you played yourself
@That guy i really dont give a fuck about valve. this isnt about them this is about how tyler can get away with making such low quality shit based off of one vague source, emerging with thousands more in his pockets.
@@DefinitiveDubs okay, how may I ask are Valve's employees are underpaid? in Animal Farm, the animals are progressively given(specifically food) less and less, and are pushed to work harder. In the end, they're only given a minimal amount to keep them alive. While the latter can be applied to Valve with how they're pushed to be hyper-productive, the former is not applied to Valve as indicated with all the talk about benefits in the positives section.
Valve's flat structure may have worked wonderfully over 10 years ago when the team was much smaller, but it's clearly a curse for the company now that it has hundreds of employees. Proper leadership and organization is required if they want to turn things around.
So Valve is just like High school, but your classmates are also the faculty, the security staff, and the principal. Great. As if regular high school isn't hellish enough already!
it seems to me like gaben is trying to run the company like a group of friends working on a game, which is probably what it was like when he was making half-life way back in the day, and that works great on a fairly small scale where the people involved all know and like each other, but it really doesn't seem to translate well to running a huge company. i think gabe has good intentions and is really trying to create a relaxed, inviting environment that breaks from oppressive corporate norms, but his unwillingness to address systemic issues within the company, probably exacerbated by pressure not to change things from the old employees who have more political power within it, is creating a lot of stagnation. it really might be best for valve is gabe stepped down and let someone with new ideas take the reins.
Yeah no. Back when they were developing HL they were passionate developers with little money. Now they are a large bunch of lazy "developers" with no passion, goal or vision, but with tons of money. Feeling the difference?
whether or not Gabe steps down is negligent. The rot in the corporate structure is permanent at this point and all it takes is a decent competitor to steam to come in and it'll just stagnate into oblivion. And that's gonna suck because it means most likely the Chinese taking over.
"stop making products people dont want" sounds pretty accurate, steam box, steam controller, artifact none of which were bad just not what people really wanted.
I think part of the problem with Valve's hardware projects is that they never really carried those projects through. No showcase software, no real reason for them existing - they're essentially prototypes that people can buy, but why would they?
Very interesting video - I think it might've been better if you clearly separated each individual review though, since it kinda sounds like one giant review.
Valve appears to be a greatly important study on the "tyranny of structurelessness". Which is btw. the title of an essay written by someone named Freeman.
@@MrElias760 Yeah, even just 10 years ago, all that "flat structure" and "autonomous employee" stuff looked really really cool. It wasn't until we realized just how badly it affected Valve's ability to produce anything and how badly it worked in practice that it became obvious how much of a good idea it wasn't.
Eldritch Valve just sit on top of their monopolised throne bathing in the revenue that steam gives them. No competitor can realistically overtake steam in my opinion, so I wonder what exactly can make Valve do something we actually want? So many iconic franchises under their name and they do nothing with them.
I'd unironically choose EA as my working place. As long as you have jack of all trades, master of none trait. And have no idealism on gaming. EA is most fun place to work with.
Basically these confirmed my suspicions about what was going on behind the scenes from the information you provided. Ima stick to being an indie dev in the future.
@@mr_beezlebub3985 I'm currently trying to finish the 2 TF2 maps I started working on months ago. After that - yes, I'm planning on starting making my own game. ... If I don't decide to waste my time watching anime, of course. We'll see.
@@samus543654 Video game industry seems to be very difficult to work in in general with how unbelievably corporate, money grubbing and risk-free it has become in recent years. Although it's entirely possible that it's just my wrongful perception of it, feel free to correct me.
In an economy that continues to go further and further towards a second Depression every year, combined with how ludicrously expensive games are to make now, taking risks is more dangerous than it's ever been.
stop defending valve with this "taking risks is dangerous" crap for most companies, yes, risks are scary. but valve is not like most companies, and is infact the only company who can fall back on steam in a scenario where their risks don't pay off. valve is one of the only companies with as much leeway to do whatever they want, but they don't even take advantage of it. considering how few products valve ships nowadays, its pretty safe to assume they already burn a ton of cash as it is. but steam makes them so much it hardly matters.
this was a pretty interesting video. I've seldom seen content actually covering how valve runs. Maybe this could shed some light on certain development choices. Good job!
"Yeah sure, the whole place is run like a middle school playground, and 90% of your work will be wasted on cancelled projects, but hey at least they have free food"
>Gabe hasn't directed the office actively in years and just shows up to play Dota games Well, that should give me all the indication as to why they were even able to go ahead with the choice of a game at which even the Dota audience collectively boo'd.
i was sitting here like "ye i wanna work for valve!" :3, and then skipped to the negatives before listening to the goods and now im sitting here like i dodged a bullet watching this video
Im in the developer (not Game dev though) space for 20 years... rule of thumb is If the have a big ludicrous expensive office - say they are a "family" without being a family company perse - and have HR who are focusing on "Diversity" As also the "Benefits Trap" - if such a company has such Benefits it means that its expected that you work ATLEAST on 2 weeks of of the month ober 20 hours a day. Same goes with "Flat Hierarchies" when the company has over 20 people - thats ALWAYS (!) a lie - because that doesnt work Dont apply - run On the other hand if you EVER see "Junior friendly Environment" - which is VERY RARE, its most likely a good company (also for Seniors) which cares about their developers even when they then mostly have not big benefits.
This seems to fit right in with what we know for a fact about valve. They never finish games anymore, lots of staff seem to leave if hey had talent, valve seems to pick up lots of indie developers who have there own projects (AKA fire watch and space program teams) Gabe seem to do less now than in the past and communication is awful. We can see all these things from the outside so I think most of this seems to be fact. I can't believe that this is the same studio that once made hl2 and all the other amazing games. It seems like even valve don't know what is going on in there studio.
That assumes the belly achers aren't blowing it out of proportion. The patter to me is that the disgruntled prefer hands on hireachies and managers or just want to be the ones making the desicions. With the od one out being just plain ass arrogant.
I'm sad to hear about this. Working at Valve has always been a dream job of mine, right next to working at Nintendo, however I despise hierarchies like this on a workplace. This explains their lack of new, creative games and continued focus on farming money. This is not the Image I had of Valve.
i don't see valve changing much not even after Gabe's death, at best they could open new HQs with conventional company structure and policies even if it's a minor HQ, i'm sure eventually it'll outgrow the main one also man, the thought of the TF2 being this zombie toxic old team that new hires avoid like the plague, it makes sense at many levels
Anything idea, presence or thought that goes unchecked for too long gets corrupted. It is always important that people of differing options always communicate genuinely.
@@isaac1403 I don't think social justice warriors want to make the world a better place for everyone, just themselves and their worldview. They're the sort of people who'd line people against the wall for daring to speak of 'the n word pass.'
Great video. I enjoyed learning about what it's like in Valve, it being such a mysterious kind of company. If I could offer a suggestion or two... The video seemed like it could have benefited from a little more structure, like breaking the major "Positive/Negative" sections into smaller subcategories. You just gave me so much information so fast I was having a hard time keeping up and remembering what the current topic was. It was well written, but without a subcategory title on screen or bullet points I kept hearing some of the buzzwords or driving points multiple times and with no context it would occasionally sound repetitive. Love your videos, keep em' coming!
The way I see it: the flat hierarchy used to work but then valve got comfortable... It's great that Gaben is working support (according to the VNN Gaben interview), but let's hope videos like this give Gaben the motivation to start taking an active role in the company again... if he wants to keep the flat hierarchy then he needs to at least become a guide for the teams and company as a whole. And the next biggest problem is the yearly review system needs a major rework/scrap because its the main reason why a team isn't getting together on risky new projects and instead only working on previously existing successful products.
Don't be naive, as a hired employee you're nobody, you can be easily replaced so there's no real reason to respect you in any way. "Dream companies" are just a marketing trick, they buy their reputation and spend a lot of money on PR. I've been working for many companies and seen a lot and it's all the same +-, no matter where you work. If you want to be respected, then you have to make your own business, because it's in human nature.
So by trying to abolish a system of power at valve, they ended up making it worse than ever by making it seem hidden? Couple that with endlessly encouraged stagnation and Gabe being nonexistent things look pretty bleak.
kecske Gurul it’s also probably because how miserable they were making both half life games. If you have a bad experience and the ability to avoid future bad experiences then you won’t get additional games in the series. The magic number seems to be 3.
@@nacho-fb1ch that's not a source. that's one website that can easily be prone to spread false information. it's fine if he uses it as a source (i guess) but even then he didn't specify the value of the source. it takes much more than one little glassdoor post to generalize what it would be like working at valve. it takes articles, interviews, testimonies and discussion. instead, he got away with contrasting one "source" (which i dont even consider to be a real source, let's be honest here) to an entire company. whether you agree with valve's internal policy or not, this is simply unacceptable quality for a content creator this influential in our community. this video should have been named "Glassdoor's thoughts on working at Valve", because we're not actually even dealing with how it is to work at Valve in general - we're dealing with one singular source that isn't solidified by any other sources.
@@jimbojones5136 well how would you explain the bat shit insane amount of inactivity and leniency coming from Valve as a whole? I think this helps paint a perfect picture on how Valve works. and if you think Tyler Mc"motherfucking"Vickor is a Valve hater, for fucks sake man, he defended ARTIFACT!
>positives including massages on-site, barber shops, "personal trainers", laundry service, yearly trip to hawaii resort Am I the only one that finds most of these positive "bonuses" to be utterly ridiculous in how pompous and ostentatious they sound? Oh, sure, they legitimately hire massagers and barbers, but actual translators? Nahhhh, just let the community do the kind of work people are usually paid for *_virtually nothing._*
Well you most likely would have system like this in place regardless if you were willing to pay for translators, because it would be hard to justify supporting a lot of languages. When you have system like this in place and you are someone as well known as Valve, people will probably fill up the languages you were already willing to pay for.
my boyhood dream was to work at Valve someday, but i realized what a rotten company it had became about 3 years ago, doing stuff nobody asked for and abandoning almost every project, even CS and Dota are being ignored at this point with Hacking and Scripting problem being completely ignored. I wish the old Valve came back, but i doubt it will be, as a lot of people said in the video, the "top guys" of the company have no real reason to fix any of the company current problems or to create anything new anymore. Sad.
POINT 1: There's no form of government, no justice system, no authority to discern from right and wrong, and employees are free to be as corrupt as they want. That's why Valve hasn't put out an actual game in years. The flat structure and lack of government allows cliques and corrupt hierarchies to exist within the company (the opposite of what the structure was intended to achieve) and prohibits any 'good control' to be taken in order to set things right and set people straight. 'Hierarchies, people sitting at the top with the biggest piles of money, and all employees are equal but some employees are more equal than others', it all sounds an awful lot like communism. Valve is deteriorating from the inside out, and to quote Lincoln- "A house divided among itself cannot stand.' It's very likely why a lot of Valve veterans like Doug Wood, Kelly Bailey, and Marc Laidlaw have left in recent years. They could be putting their talents towards things that will be accomplished/enjoying their lives, rather than letting their ideas and themselves being stuck in development hell due to the corrupt regime of employees that are at Valve now. POINT 2: Also, my guess that Gabe Newell having not actively taken part in the company in years is probably the equivalent of a singer who sings their popular song badly on purpose because they're sick of singing them and won't be asked to sing them anymore (if that example makes sense). Gabe's been the CEO of Valve since Day 1 in 1996 so he's been doing this for 23 years now thus far. He's worked on the Half-Life games so closely he only sees them for their flaws, not to mention the twists and turns they had to go through like the overhauls of HL1 and HL2, the infamous HL2 leak, and the episodic structure, but that's just the Half-Life related stuff. He's likely stressed out over the internal politics, knowing Valve isn't the same company is was in the early years, the burdens like "Where's Half-Life 3?!" and Valve's reputation. (One could keep adding to that list but you get the idea). CONCLUSION: The flat company structure is flawed and something needs to be done about it. Install a body of power within the company that will keep everyone and everything in order, but will also not grow into any kind of dictatorship or regime, or fall apart. A level of good control is needed, but not too much power where it will turn into corruption. Once Valve gets their shit together the employees will be happy and productive and everything will be good. Only then will there be chances of any new game getting shipped, but what the hell do I know?
@Vosvek I agree, the flat structure worked fine when Valve was small, and when the entire company was about 20 or so people working on one game. The formed what they called 'cabals' and were a bunch of friends who worked to achieve something. Now Valve has well over 300 employees with separate things to work on like Counter-Strike, Steam, or VR, but nothing is getting out the door and now the work environment there has become toxic. Each team should have cabals within them and Gabe needs to actively check on each one instead of playing Dota 2. Review each team and its cabals for what they're working on and lay down the law to any employees who are being assholes. You're right about not having an ultimate body of power (even if that body is multiple people) that will become corrupt or anything. That's what the flat structure was intended for and it did work under the right conditions. I think Valve having flat structureS to be checked out and Gabe stepping up when needed could work and keep things in order.
I had a friend who really wanted to work at valve. They once said they were going to go insane if they didn’t get the job. I don’t know what happened to them now, but I hope they don’t want to work here still..
I have my share problems with Valve as a developer, especially in terms of sheer output ("productivity") and communication, but I have to say a lot of the "negatives" sound like petty complaints from people who weren't suited to work autonomously in the first place. "Oh, the structure is flat and there's no formal hierarchy, but if you aren't a social type people will not interact with you a lot". Sounds like the rest of the world. "Long-time, high-performing employees tend to have a better social stand and overall more implied authority than last entries to the team". No shit? "You better be extremely productive or you will be looked down by many". I guess it's a reasonable counterpoint to their high bar of entry and the shitload of benefits they offer to employees. "I don't know what to do if others don't tell me". "Find your own role and make yourself as useful as you can" was something you were told from the beginning, wasn't it? "OH NO, BOTH SIDES arguments" sounds like something that would be counted as a net negative only on ResetERA and similar environments. Etc, etc. P.S. Just to be clear, regardless of how hyperbolic some of the complaints may be, I think it's only healthy for them to get their fair dose of shit every now and then. Especially if they will address some of this stuff, it can only help to improve the situation.
*All that money, all those employees, and yet they have no more flash sales, no exciting events, no special event games, no festive events. Only old games have decent sale prices. Steam 2014-2019 has become very disappointing...* *You have all that money & human resources, Valve celebrate gaming culture with your users/customers and throw epic events that breaks the internet & has the world talking all week!*
valve: Here is a new employee and an experienced employee. you are both equal. Here is a new Player in TF2 and an experienced Player in TF2. you are both equal
Near infinite capital, top developers in the industry, and all the time in the world.
And the only game they've produced in recent memory died in a week.
>implying it was ever alive to begin with
This right here is the truth, I don't know why it doesn't have more likes
Sounds like Valve has broken management structure and toxic office environment, that makes any meaningful production process impossible.
IMO Steam and old games are the only reason Valve is still rolling strong. Really sad, this is.
Vox3l-Gl1tch You’ve clearly never played the game if you believe this.
Vox3l-Gl1tch The reason Artifact failed was because of the way it dealt with its cards. Not because it lacked soul and the developers only wanted a quick buck. And why would Valve waste resources to only make a quick buck?
6 MINUTES of Positives 24 minutes of negatives lmao
yeah that describes also valve's career as game developers themselves, few years of game making, and the rest living off the store
Damn
I couldn't even get thru 2 minutes.
Woah! Valve looking like its turning into a hell hole
Deadgam- Dead company
"Avoid teams with old timers as they tend to be incredibly toxic"
"The way to shut down these teams is to starve them of new hires"
TF2 team:
-starved of new hires
-mostly old timers
Oh no
don't forget old teams that lack of support from gabe him self (i honestly think this is more of the reason)
I’m scared.
That makes a lot of sense.
Cumbiya my Lord cumbiya
Star Germs loled so hard. Dude wtf
The positives: Same 5 things repeated 100 times
Free food! Personal trainers (for you and your spouse)! Paid vacation TO HAWAII!
He may have been reading verbatim from the reviews.
@@AKsTF2 Rofl, unbelievable how those are the only "positive" stuff.
Wyatt Yeah, I got that, but it’s funny how the positives are generic and short while the negatives are vivid and keep piling on and on.
@@communistpootisbirb That's why a be friends with your co-workers culture for Valve doesn't work. You can uniquely vary benefits with your friends as they need it, but you can't at work. However, with lack of structure,everyone's awful experience will feel personalized and isolating. Maybe they just need to fork the org in a few ways and maintain the weak structure, using the oldguard as a coordinating body.
Tyler has used the same gameplay video for around 4 vids straight.
*pfft* No.
He's just been enjoying Harvest a lot lately.
@@Theuniversearch I'm just playing harvest a lot right now.
Can't blame him for not playing TF2. Also, this is more of a podcast :D
T r u e t h a t t h o
@@TylerMcVicker1 Definitely a good map.
So, that's why there aren't any new game, the company is in chaos while Gabe is playing games all day
Hes living the dreeam
Maybe i am fanoboi, but i don't think Valve in chaos...
@@diemap i mean, valve is not doing much in the last years, or at least is what it seems because there is no communication, they seem lazy and Gabe isn't doing anything about that, there isn't any control or order on what are they doing
@@IamKAyrox start of redesign, Steam Proton, many VR and hardware stuff, new game - Artifact (even if it fail), many big game updates like CS:GO Battle Royale and i really looking forward to Steam TV, because i like this idea. It looks like they are doing nothing, but when you look closer - they do lot of stuff
Yeah don’t believe that bullshit to be a ceo of a company at that scale you can’t just play games all day he does a lot of managing he just disclosed all the contract work
So working at valve is like a popularity battle Royale huh
also sounds a lot like a bunch of hippies fresh from university bitching about 'hate speech' there as well
Sounds like hell on earth.
@@Gogglesofkrome well one review said they're libertarians so hate speech shoudlnt be real to them.
@@kingofscotland7268 Yeah, that said, there is like a new movement, they call themselves "Left Libertarian", they are basically just Socialists. They are fucking disgusting. That said, I would love to work with ACTUAL libertarians! In fact, that would be my dream.
Actual thoughtful Libertarians are the most amazing people I've ever met in my life. But on 1 good libertarian there are at least 9 stupid hipster libertarians who just jump on this train but don't really understand what it is really about at it's core.
If you haven't read "Hans-Hermann Hoppe", "Ludwig von Mises" or "Rothbart", you're probably no real libertarian and just follow a new ideology that will soon be formed and misleading people into anther believe system.
Praxeology is the first step of understanding humanity, and after that you can understand economy and everything else.
wait this isn't click bait. Ok then
Im okay with vnn clickbait it's my fetish
Why would it have been clickbait?
@@ermy1595 the past few vids have been clickbait.
@Melchor Herrera Maybe that one little thing that given how the title of this video is worded, one could say it's reasonable to expect an interview of sorts with 1 or 2 people that talk about their experiences in the company, followed that by VNN's input on the matter. But of course since it's VNN, he goes through the path of least resistance and spends half an hour on reading Glassdoor reviews (an activity we all could do in our own spare time), without providing text on the screen, reading all reviews with the same tone which makes it difficult to define when one ends and another one starts, and on top of that substituting said lack of on-screen text with relatively boring, unskilled gameplay probably hardly anybody gives a flying fuck about. This results in a cheap and bland video that could have been rendered in half the time, if not less, had it not been for the gameplay in the background. Just put a goddamn microphone picture as a still image so it's a clear signal RIGHT FROM THE GET-GO there's nothing interesting to WATCH here.
Maybe if Tyler at least added a remark, critique, his own thought, ANYTHING inbetween the reviews, only then could this piece be less dull. Still not to the point of it being even mildly entertaining, but at least a step in the direction of practicality/discussion standpoint. There is absolutely NO reason for this video not to have a title closer to "Ex-employees' reviews on Valve on Glassdoor". I even wanted to add "- and my take on it" but sadly, this is not the case here unless you wanted to stretch that argument so thin to encompass "Uhhhhh.... yikes" at 29:20. We should expect slightly better quality for a 30-minute long video from someone who pays their bills by living off of UA-cam and Twitch.
So yeah, it is a clickbait, not the first and most certainly not the last one from him. For what it's worth, this is the main reason I've been unsubscribed from VNN for over a year now and once in a blue moon I stumble upon his video, my predictions remain true. A low-effort material with a catchy title, the same sort you'd expect from mainstream news outlets or conspiracy theorists. And the answer to such a ridicule of a viewer's time (and intelligence) is very simple: an adblock.
Begone, trot.
So Gabe does nothing but plays Dota 2 all day at the office? No wonder we dont get good games anymore.
I wish he'd play tf2 all day, maybe it get updated
quite funny tbh imagining gabe just playing dota all day
He only plays against bots. ONLY BOTS.
I.... don't get the point
@@AcronymARES Wait is that true? Was that in the video or how do you know about it? If true, it would be even sadder.
After listening to these I think we can draw a few conclusions:
-The work environment at Valve at the time of writing of these reviews was/is as cynical and toxic as we've heard it was/is.
-The "flat structure" is a facade that at this point seems to do more harm than good.
-Tyler has indeed been right about most things.
-Most of the old-timers, while being a relic of the nostalgic "old valve" are a net negative for the company and contribute to the toxic and stressful work environment.
-Gabe himself is regarded highly even by those who leave Valve and scoff at the company in general, but barely has an active role in the company anymore and therefore has to either step up and be active in the company again or just step down.
The video just came out, how did you do this?
@@TylerMcVicker1 El psy kongroo.
Gabe fits abrahamic god archetype so accurately, that it feels unsettling
They might've watched the stream.
Thanks for boiling it down, I was listening to this vid in the background and this coherently sums it up.
gabe is gonna have fun answering emails after this video blows up
He'll have a heart-attack before he even finishes the second email.
This video is very late to the party. Some months ago other outlets discussed a long twitter chain by an ex-VALVE employee, which is included in this video (along with other reviews, as I understand).
He wont have time to answer them. He'll be playing Dota 2.
I think valve needs a reformation. Tyler should hammer his 95 Theses of gamedevelopment onto valves head quarter. Maybe this video starts a revolution.
But dont forget the time, tyler missed his free HTC Vive.
Thanks for reminding that
Thanks ;D
f for tyler's missed htc vive
Tyler Luther
Gabe just playing Dota all time in office made my day. What a guy.
*playing Dota with bots
That actually ruined my day. That's pretty freaking disappointing. Goddamn it, Gabe!
Makes sense why dota gets most updates
Dota is the only good Valve game anyway.
Stop trolling man
"Gabe just playing Dota all time in office" Gmod animators are pretty accurate with that
So chatting to your peers at Valve is like chatting in Dota 2?
W/o extreme salt
Yes.
With less salt.
And more pepper
Work on Artifact or feed
Its feels like Valve turned into the Gman from the end of Half-Life;
"Illusion of free choice", except if you take the deal, you don't ever wake up from stasis.
RomanImperialXII Adrian shepherd
Or you turn into Half-Life 2.
Holy Shit
"Rather than offering you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you."
I wrote a research paper on Valve last year and I talked about most of the points made in your video. I think it would honestly be horrible to work there. The stack ranking system is probably one of the worst things as it is, like you said, relatively subjective and isn't based on evidence. Anyone who is labelled below par would become so demotivated and I would imagine it begins to corrupt their minds, as you also noted in the video and begin to put their bonus ahead of anything else. The flat laissez faire culture sounds hip and trendy on paper, but it just doesn't work as, like you said again, results in no accountability and no clear directions. That said, it's a sham anyway as evidenced by many ex-valvers. I think the senior hidden hivemind is probably the most disgusting thing about the company. I can't imagine being in a situation where you either kiss senior employee's asses, or expect to be bullied until you quit or get shoved out.
Over the years I think people are seriously questioning Valve's strategies to the point of which they are no longer seen as a desirable company to work for. This will seriously impact their talent pool and will hurt the company in the future. Valve seriously needs to step up their PR and game development strategies because their customers are past the point of waiting and are seriously angry. Eventually this will bite them in the ass if they don't shape up.
Hopefully the extra competition in the digital platform space will force Valve to finally wake up before they lose most of their talent and also their lead in the market share.
Monopolies don't last forever, especially when a company grows complacent.
Send it to Tyler. Email him.
@@ADRENELINEDUDE I can't unfortunately. It can't be distributed outside of my university.
PR in valve terms = Public retardation
The model is fine but there needs to be some limeted oversight, such as Gabe being more hands on and less dota-obsessed
Oh my God... Aperture Science IS Valve
It was a self insert
Aperture Science did science til they died. Valve just kinda stopped doing games because of how messy they are.
@@flytrapYTP Aperture never released anything publicly past their glory days, they just tested internally in vastly inefficient ways, while Black Mesa got all the govt contracts.
@@flytrapYTP Aperture worked on a lot of random fucking things that never saw the light of day. Who knows how many cancelled projects Valve is sitting on based on this vid.
We do what we must, because we can... Throwing science at the wall to see what sticks... It all makes sense now.
@@AesculapiusPiranha Plus, the stuff Valve does realease is so cumbersome or unattractive to the average user that something else takes its place, kinda how most of apertures stuff is too expensove and ineffecient to be put to use
8:54 "Avoid teams that have a lack of support from gabe"
RIP The TF2 staff
No, it's just that TF2 team is filled with old timers. As the reviews said, old timers are toxic, it's most probably that TF2 team gets the most support from Gabe and that is why it gets away with not releasing updates for above a year.
@@lubieplacki2772 Oh... Well said
@@lubieplacki2772 well... you sure about it?
This puts a whole new perspective on "My DAD works at valve!". Poor kids, they lashed out because of their parents unstable working conditions :(
Never heard that one before. Heard of "My Granny works at valve!" before doe. Also, Granny dosen't actually bake her own pink cookies.
You forgot one pro: THE BIG PINK COOKIE
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but they don't have that at Valve anymore :(
@Shallex That is the calorie intake required to feed a genius; might I remind you.
Daniel Anthony Drilon It was an obvious joke 😂 100g of pure oil has 900 calories and everything else has less than that.
@@danthony1715 sounds like it's made purely of diabetes
Those who are old heads like us remember that video
Valve has been my dream job since I was 12.
I feel broken.
You get paid for looking busy. so its basically is a dream job.
@Who Shot the Dog Probably from all that reaserch you do to see where the market is going. gotta get a feel of whats out there. if that means a few rounds of apex ledgends well thats what it means.
Nice pfp
Currently ive been doing the hammer editor for 2 years, mostly to become a game deisgner hopfully at valve. Anyways if you get accepted you are prob a person who does it because they like it, I like designing shit and thats why they do this system.
@@gestapo1401 hi do you still want to work for valve? your comment is 9 months old and i was just wondering
No wonder tf2 is being left in the dust. Most of the negatives can draw comparisons right to it.
It's funny too because it's basically the only valve ip with a positive sentiment remaining.
Mr.Hpr52 Pie or Portal 2
It sounds to me like Apeture Science is a direct parody of valve after hearing these reviews.
At least Aperture Science did a ton of shit until they got killed by GLaDOS.
@@flytrapYTP There were some definite slackers.
Current Valve is Aperture under Wheatly
Maybe thats the idea
Aspiring game programmer: I want to work on fun games for Valve!
Valve: *Office politics*
It was time for the programmer to leave. He had seen everything.
Office politics is everywhere, thats why momma always told me to get along with my colleagues and bosses (No bosses in this case, but rule still applies).
@@isaac1403 my dad quit his job completely because of office politics. That stuff is useless and destroys any sort of productivity.
@@isaac1403 I just hate people
So the problem at valve isn't the flat structure, it's that they pretend they have a flat structure when they really haven't
the pros v cons are like a libertarian fantasy vs libertarian reality
There is no such thing as a true flat structure. Like Tyler said, theoretically, Valve has a flat structure in place with no bosses and supervisors, but people naturally gain "social points" and unofficially climb up the ranks.
And toxic colleagues/ office environment, and broken management methods.
I would imagine the "flat structure" is a by-product from the days when Valve was still a small group of people, where they had similar mindset and goals to actually make meaningful progress on projects and stuff.
@@_remblanc I think it could be fixed by making the workplace more of a democracy, with the CEO being elected, and various team leads also being elected. Those people can then manage things and provide feedback which can give structure to those who desire it while still being accountable to employees. Firings could require a vote all involved, and the reasons would need to be presented before the entire company. Worker COOP's already exist, valve is kind of one, but kind of not. They should go all the way
Oh, shit, I'm at the 9-minute-mark, does this mean the TF Team is toxic?
A old-timer team that implements stuff that no customer wanted or that is not working whatsoever. Ejem... competitive mode... ejem.
Not unlikely...
@@monolel Casual matchmaking lobbies with dedicated servers are the shit though.
@@Radi0he4d1 they've worked for many years though... I am not closed to improvement, but they did not ask for feedback neither looked existing alternative ways to play competitive like TF2Center. That is exactly the lack of "care" and listening to customer's feedback they talk about.
@@Radi0he4d1 They're total cancer and objectively worse for the community than Quickplay was. Casual matchmaking is/was fucking horrible for the game.
I'm not going to pretend to understand how game developing OR high level office jobs operate. But the positive reviews sort of made it sound like this is a place where extremely talented and intelligent people can produce nothing and reap the benefits. Paid employee vacation, gyms, personal trainers, spousal care, barber shops, catering, no bosses, jump teams as you wish. Is there ANY centralized authority at Valve? Do employees need to show ANY work? I'm genuinely curious, because the review made it sound like an adult playground.
They are making so much money without having to actually do anything that it might as well be one.
@@Anonymouthful Complacency tends to be what kills such companies however.
@@iratepirate3896 Even with such massive customer base its only a matter of time but Im affraid this disease will go terminal before anyone even thinks about going to a doctor.
Didn't that basically kill Duke Nukem Forever?
They didn't have Steam though
Well, I have spoken to someone that said similar things about EA's offices, or at least the one he works at, a few years ago. It has relaxation rooms, areas to play games for "play testing," I think a buffet though that one I can't be quoted on, and even a fucking ball pit. He regarded working at that building as a dream, and an enjoyable experience, but at the same time he's also an IMMENSELY talented coder that's essentially desirable by anyone that sees his resume, so once again, the talented get treated very well, while everyone else is thrown in the wood chipper.
This seems to be a pattern, and given we know how awful EA is, and now with this about Valve coming to light, it's sadly feeling like Valve is only a few missteps away from being another EA if they aren't careful. Because let's face it, the clear hierarchy of "old timers" that's made themselves established there basically run the place, and all they need to do is make a few bad decisions, and it's downhill. They have more power than the actual man in charge because he just sits in his office playing games, completely unaware of anything going on.
Tyler, I know this is a one off video, but if you are willing to accept a bit of constructive criticism, I think clearly separating the reviews that you read would be nice
Miguel Pereira i like your pfp
Agreed, that was rather confusing while watching.
Soad :D
Oh boy, 30 minutes. You weren’t kidding
Without much to separate individual reviews, I like to think this was a single former employee who just kept forgetting what they had already covered and repeated themselves endlessly
Yeah I wish he wouldve mentioned the reviews individually to get better perspectives
all he did was read verbatim some of the reviews, ofc sorting them on a positive and negative list.
22:40 Mass firings of 2013 and the leave of talent during 2014. That's Two Cities and Love and War.
End of the Line really was the end of the TF Team
Wait. Did you just add VALVe and work in the same sentence?
He's mad don't worry about it.
no more interviews for you, Tyler
Man, this really puts into perspective the false hope for something new and special we've held for the past few years.
"false" this didn't age well lol
So essentially, it's just as it was expected.
Higher-ups being absolute pricks, completely happy with being rich, but also being tyrants and ruling over the workers with what is essentially a gossip system, and then Gabe just... not doing anything, at all.
If valve is as what it was reviewed to be, it needs some changes, alot of them.
I thought Gabe was THE higher up one? Whu doesn't he stepped in? He can't? Or doesn't want to?
modern valve is on gabe, he could of kept things like a regular game company, but he got other ideas along the way. All that BS about people working on what they want, lol
Gabe doesn't give a fuck, he's rich and waits for his pension.
Well i can already tell what is it like.
“ Gabe will yeet toward you with hostile intention if you say “ 3 “
I give up, not on valve games, not on valve hardware, I give up on the belief that corruption isn't everywhere.
That is the most depressing comment I’ve ever read and I can’t even attempt to disagree
Positives: 6 minutes
Negatives: 24 minutes
seems like a pretty good company.
positives: 6 minutes
negatives: 24 minutes
sources of information: none
visual graphs and figures to support lecture: none
expertise in working at valve: none
ad revenue money: all of it thanks to a half-assed informational video, you played yourself
Angry Joe reviews
Positives: 5 minutes
Bitching: 30 minutes
5/10 average game.
@That guy i really dont give a fuck about valve. this isnt about them
this is about how tyler can get away with making such low quality shit based off of one vague source, emerging with thousands more in his pockets.
@@jimbojones5136 Ok good for you
The music at the end broke my heart :(
What is it called?
@@satoshi-raven Half-Life 2: Triage at Dawn.
@@fantomexe Thank you!
i do *so* envy you working with eli and dr.kleiner when they were at the top of their field.
My god. Valve is a real life Animal Farm.
You just blew my mind
Every employee is equal, some are just more equal than others.
I’ve read animal farm, no it’s not
@@dynastystar5515 I've read it too and if you take away the war with the farmers and the political allegory for the Soviet Union, it kinda is.
@@DefinitiveDubs okay, how may I ask are Valve's employees are underpaid? in Animal Farm, the animals are progressively given(specifically food) less and less, and are pushed to work harder. In the end, they're only given a minimal amount to keep them alive. While the latter can be applied to Valve with how they're pushed to be hyper-productive, the former is not applied to Valve as indicated with all the talk about benefits in the positives section.
Valve's flat structure may have worked wonderfully over 10 years ago when the team was much smaller, but it's clearly a curse for the company now that it has hundreds of employees.
Proper leadership and organization is required if they want to turn things around.
So Valve is just like High school, but your classmates are also the faculty, the security staff, and the principal.
Great. As if regular high school isn't hellish enough already!
👏👏 employee review 👏👏
*employer
If Pewdiepie is your reviewer then you know you're out of a job come tomorrow.
it seems to me like gaben is trying to run the company like a group of friends working on a game, which is probably what it was like when he was making half-life way back in the day, and that works great on a fairly small scale where the people involved all know and like each other, but it really doesn't seem to translate well to running a huge company. i think gabe has good intentions and is really trying to create a relaxed, inviting environment that breaks from oppressive corporate norms, but his unwillingness to address systemic issues within the company, probably exacerbated by pressure not to change things from the old employees who have more political power within it, is creating a lot of stagnation. it really might be best for valve is gabe stepped down and let someone with new ideas take the reins.
Someone like me
Yeah no. Back when they were developing HL they were passionate developers with little money.
Now they are a large bunch of lazy "developers" with no passion, goal or vision, but with tons of money.
Feeling the difference?
@@T--kq3pj Yes
whether or not Gabe steps down is negligent. The rot in the corporate structure is permanent at this point and all it takes is a decent competitor to steam to come in and it'll just stagnate into oblivion. And that's gonna suck because it means most likely the Chinese taking over.
in my 22 years of being alive, i've never seen or heard anyone use the word "exacerbated"
Well, that put a LOT into perspective. No wonder Valve's in the shape it's in.
Fantastically wealthy and apparently in the process of developing a game that would go on to critical and commercial acclaim?
"stop making products people dont want" sounds pretty accurate, steam box, steam controller, artifact none of which were bad just not what people really wanted.
I think part of the problem with Valve's hardware projects is that they never really carried those projects through. No showcase software, no real reason for them existing - they're essentially prototypes that people can buy, but why would they?
Hey now I like my steam controller! But there will probably never be a second revision and they'll eventually drop it
Shut the fuck up mate. Artifact IS bad, but not because it is related to Dota as you all like to cry.
@@lubieplacki2772 huh?
@@Willb0t ^ Times two
So a lot of rivalry and hierarchy, with a chance that you can be fired at any moment. Either from a mad higher up, a computer, or company opinion.
Very interesting video - I think it might've been better if you clearly separated each individual review though, since it kinda sounds like one giant review.
Valve appears to be a greatly important study on the "tyranny of structurelessness". Which is btw. the title of an essay written by someone named Freeman.
A lot of funny coincidences, with the essay and with the company's hierarchy.
This video probably holds the record for "longest slow zoom in on text" considering 'The Negatives' is on screen for like 20+ minutes.
Volvo is basically a chinese factory, but with a FREE BARBER.
23 other people actually agreed with this statement?
@@isaac1403 Beacause it's true
And you said that Valve was your dream job.... Yikes
WAS
Amburdo s. 10 years ago I think a lot of people would say that. Nowadays, not so much.
@@MrElias760 Yeah, even just 10 years ago, all that "flat structure" and "autonomous employee" stuff looked really really cool. It wasn't until we realized just how badly it affected Valve's ability to produce anything and how badly it worked in practice that it became obvious how much of a good idea it wasn't.
Eldritch Valve just sit on top of their monopolised throne bathing in the revenue that steam gives them. No competitor can realistically overtake steam in my opinion, so I wonder what exactly can make Valve do something we actually want? So many iconic franchises under their name and they do nothing with them.
I'd unironically choose EA as my working place.
As long as you have jack of all trades, master of none trait. And have no idealism on gaming. EA is most fun place to work with.
Basically these confirmed my suspicions about what was going on behind the scenes from the information you provided. Ima stick to being an indie dev in the future.
Just curious: Are you working on a game? If so, i'd gladly play it
@@mr_beezlebub3985
I'm currently trying to finish the 2 TF2 maps I started working on months ago. After that - yes, I'm planning on starting making my own game.
... If I don't decide to waste my time watching anime, of course.
We'll see.
There are hundreds of non-indie video companies that are very nice to work for. Valve isn't the only employer in the world.
@@samus543654
Video game industry seems to be very difficult to work in in general with how unbelievably corporate, money grubbing and risk-free it has become in recent years.
Although it's entirely possible that it's just my wrongful perception of it, feel free to correct me.
Hey, same here. Being a game dev is kinda my dream job, but with how the Triple-A stuff seems to be, it seems far better to be indie.
Valve taking risks again would be such a nice change of pace.
I wouldn't consider Artifact a safe move for Valve...
People want companies to take risks. Yet don't like what comes from these risks.
@@Videogamer96_ That was a dumb risk, noone wanted or asked for it
In an economy that continues to go further and further towards a second Depression every year, combined with how ludicrously expensive games are to make now, taking risks is more dangerous than it's ever been.
stop defending valve with this "taking risks is dangerous" crap
for most companies, yes, risks are scary. but valve is not like most companies, and is infact the only company who can fall back on steam in a scenario where their risks don't pay off. valve is one of the only companies with as much leeway to do whatever they want, but they don't even take advantage of it. considering how few products valve ships nowadays, its pretty safe to assume they already burn a ton of cash as it is. but steam makes them so much it hardly matters.
this was a pretty interesting video. I've seldom seen content actually covering how valve runs. Maybe this could shed some light on certain development choices. Good job!
Valve has turned into the Combine and its up to Tyler Freeman to end the corruption with his crowbar of knowledge!
Valve doesn’t have supervisors but it *does* have owners and employees who are friendlier and closer with the owners making them first among equals.
Thanks Tyler for making this video, it maybe the most important one of your channel imo
"Yeah sure, the whole place is run like a middle school playground, and 90% of your work will be wasted on cancelled projects, but hey at least they have free food"
These are HUGE benefits!!! Now where’s the catch???
Edit: oh...
A company that communicates with its employees about as much as they do their fans/community 🤔
A lot of talk about what the customer wants.
Strange how that ended up working out.
I think it worked out pretty well. I mean none of us wanted Half-Life 3 and Portal 3 we just wanted a shitty card game and some microtransactions
@@ThatNormalBunny this but unironically
>Gabe hasn't directed the office actively in years and just shows up to play Dota games
Well, that should give me all the indication as to why they were even able to go ahead with the choice of a game at which even the Dota audience collectively boo'd.
i was sitting here like "ye i wanna work for valve!" :3, and then skipped to the negatives before listening to the goods and now im sitting here like i dodged a bullet watching this video
also i love how the negatives take up 70% of the video
@@mynameis-joey 6 minutes of positives, 24 of negative. lol
How to work at valve
Step 1 Water the potted plant
Step 2 Leave the building
Im in the developer (not Game dev though) space for 20 years... rule of thumb is
If the have a big ludicrous expensive office - say they are a "family" without being a family company perse - and have HR who are focusing on "Diversity"
As also the "Benefits Trap" - if such a company has such Benefits it means that its expected that you work ATLEAST on 2 weeks of of the month ober 20 hours a day.
Same goes with "Flat Hierarchies" when the company has over 20 people - thats ALWAYS (!) a lie - because that doesnt work
Dont apply - run
On the other hand if you EVER see "Junior friendly Environment" - which is VERY RARE, its most likely a good company (also for Seniors) which cares about their developers even when they then mostly have not big benefits.
This seems to fit right in with what we know for a fact about valve. They never finish games anymore, lots of staff seem to leave if hey had talent, valve seems to pick up lots of indie developers who have there own projects (AKA fire watch and space program teams) Gabe seem to do less now than in the past and communication is awful. We can see all these things from the outside so I think most of this seems to be fact. I can't believe that this is the same studio that once made hl2 and all the other amazing games. It seems like even valve don't know what is going on in there studio.
Normally you'd think that "they don't know what they are doing" would be hyperbole. This isn't normal.
There is nothing I can add here that doesn't already been said before 26:13
I hope gabe's alright, it doesn't seem healthy to just play dota everyday whilst watching your company that you created to rot around you...
That assumes the belly achers aren't blowing it out of proportion. The patter to me is that the disgruntled prefer hands on hireachies and managers or just want to be the ones making the desicions. With the od one out being just plain ass arrogant.
That's an extra big yikes from me
I'm sad to hear about this. Working at Valve has always been a dream job of mine, right next to working at Nintendo, however I despise hierarchies like this on a workplace.
This explains their lack of new, creative games and continued focus on farming money. This is not the Image I had of Valve.
i don't see valve changing much not even after Gabe's death, at best they could open new HQs with conventional company structure and policies even if it's a minor HQ, i'm sure eventually it'll outgrow the main one
also man, the thought of the TF2 being this zombie toxic old team that new hires avoid like the plague, it makes sense at many levels
Sounds like valve has gotten corrupted.
Anything idea, presence or thought that goes unchecked for too long gets corrupted. It is always important that people of differing options always communicate genuinely.
(That said who actually gives a shit unless you're some try hard social justice warrior who wants to make the world a better place.)
*Company compromised.*
@@isaac1403 I don't think social justice warriors want to make the world a better place for everyone, just themselves and their worldview. They're the sort of people who'd line people against the wall for daring to speak of 'the n word pass.'
@@Gogglesofkrome I was actually talking about real social justice warriors, sry if my statement was misleading as 'SJW' is usually a derogatory term.
Great video. I enjoyed learning about what it's like in Valve, it being such a mysterious kind of company. If I could offer a suggestion or two...
The video seemed like it could have benefited from a little more structure, like breaking the major "Positive/Negative" sections into smaller subcategories. You just gave me so much information so fast I was having a hard time keeping up and remembering what the current topic was. It was well written, but without a subcategory title on screen or bullet points I kept hearing some of the buzzwords or driving points multiple times and with no context it would occasionally sound repetitive.
Love your videos, keep em' coming!
so Valve is more like:
- Geniuses Win
- Lack of something or different = fired
The way I see it: the flat hierarchy used to work but then valve got comfortable... It's great that Gaben is working support (according to the VNN Gaben interview), but let's hope videos like this give Gaben the motivation to start taking an active role in the company again... if he wants to keep the flat hierarchy then he needs to at least become a guide for the teams and company as a whole.
And the next biggest problem is the yearly review system needs a major rework/scrap because its the main reason why a team isn't getting together on risky new projects and instead only working on previously existing successful products.
Shots fired, I expect Valve to see this video.
I had this imagination of a perfect company from Valve, but as it seems it is quite the opposite.
Don't be naive, as a hired employee you're nobody, you can be easily replaced so there's no real reason to respect you in any way.
"Dream companies" are just a marketing trick, they buy their reputation and spend a lot of money on PR.
I've been working for many companies and seen a lot and it's all the same +-, no matter where you work.
If you want to be respected, then you have to make your own business, because it's in human nature.
Valve should respond to this. This is like a very extension audit of the company internals, which should be taken seriously!
So by trying to abolish a system of power at valve, they ended up making it worse than ever by making it seem hidden? Couple that with endlessly encouraged stagnation and Gabe being nonexistent things look pretty bleak.
I think they'd be pretty bored not making any games for god knows how long now
If they didn't have infinite money from steam they'd have gone bust *years* ago
So much talk about teams working on projects but I don't see them working on anything at all.
So this is why we never got Half Life 3
kecske Gurul it’s also probably because how miserable they were making both half life games. If you have a bad experience and the ability to avoid future bad experiences then you won’t get additional games in the series. The magic number seems to be 3.
@@porcupineracer2 You are god damn right
kecske Gurul yea after reading all of those reviews, it feels like 2008-2011 was the downfall of VALVe(1998-2007) we knew :(
@@V-95K and nothing of value was lost
@@V-95K Hmmm, did the Great Recession kill off Valve?
Someone should email this video to Gabe.
Well there goes that dream job I guess.
tyler's rocket jumping makes me want to puke
Still better than mine
his lack of sources makes me want to puke
@@jimbojones5136 Except he did tho, you can find the source in the desc
@@nacho-fb1ch that's not a source. that's one website that can easily be prone to spread false information.
it's fine if he uses it as a source (i guess) but even then he didn't specify the value of the source.
it takes much more than one little glassdoor post to generalize what it would be like working at valve. it takes articles, interviews, testimonies and discussion. instead, he got away with contrasting one "source" (which i dont even consider to be a real source, let's be honest here) to an entire company.
whether you agree with valve's internal policy or not, this is simply unacceptable quality for a content creator this influential in our community.
this video should have been named "Glassdoor's thoughts on working at Valve", because we're not actually even dealing with how it is to work at Valve in general - we're dealing with one singular source that isn't solidified by any other sources.
@@jimbojones5136 well how would you explain the bat shit insane amount of inactivity and leniency coming from Valve as a whole? I think this helps paint a perfect picture on how Valve works. and if you think Tyler Mc"motherfucking"Vickor is a Valve hater, for fucks sake man, he defended ARTIFACT!
Shit... this was a downer. Thanks though Tyler for keeping us in the loop
"Don't join any teams who haven't shipped a product in years"
And that narrows it down to...?
>positives including massages on-site, barber shops, "personal trainers", laundry service, yearly trip to hawaii resort
Am I the only one that finds most of these positive "bonuses" to be utterly ridiculous in how pompous and ostentatious they sound?
Oh, sure, they legitimately hire massagers and barbers, but actual translators? Nahhhh, just let the community do the kind of work people are usually paid for *_virtually nothing._*
Well you most likely would have system like this in place regardless if you were willing to pay for translators, because it would be hard to justify supporting a lot of languages. When you have system like this in place and you are someone as well known as Valve, people will probably fill up the languages you were already willing to pay for.
Well, I guess working at valve is not in my "want to work there" list.
my boyhood dream was to work at Valve someday, but i realized what a rotten company it had became about 3 years ago, doing stuff nobody asked for and abandoning almost every project, even CS and Dota are being ignored at this point with Hacking and Scripting problem being completely ignored.
I wish the old Valve came back, but i doubt it will be, as a lot of people said in the video, the "top guys" of the company have no real reason to fix any of the company current problems or to create anything new anymore.
Sad.
So Valve is no pinnacle of the gaming industry, they are everything wrong with the corporate end of it.
Pro: no menagers, Cons: no one know what to do
POINT 1: There's no form of government, no justice system, no authority to discern from right and wrong, and employees are free to be as corrupt as they want. That's why Valve hasn't put out an actual game in years. The flat structure and lack of government allows cliques and corrupt hierarchies to exist within the company (the opposite of what the structure was intended to achieve) and prohibits any 'good control' to be taken in order to set things right and set people straight.
'Hierarchies, people sitting at the top with the biggest piles of money, and all employees are equal but some employees are more equal than others', it all sounds an awful lot like communism. Valve is deteriorating from the inside out, and to quote Lincoln- "A house divided among itself cannot stand.' It's very likely why a lot of Valve veterans like Doug Wood, Kelly Bailey, and Marc Laidlaw have left in recent years. They could be putting their talents towards things that will be accomplished/enjoying their lives, rather than letting their ideas and themselves being stuck in development hell due to the corrupt regime of employees that are at Valve now.
POINT 2: Also, my guess that Gabe Newell having not actively taken part in the company in years is probably the equivalent of a singer who sings their popular song badly on purpose because they're sick of singing them and won't be asked to sing them anymore (if that example makes sense). Gabe's been the CEO of Valve since Day 1 in 1996 so he's been doing this for 23 years now thus far. He's worked on the Half-Life games so closely he only sees them for their flaws, not to mention the twists and turns they had to go through like the overhauls of HL1 and HL2, the infamous HL2 leak, and the episodic structure, but that's just the Half-Life related stuff. He's likely stressed out over the internal politics, knowing Valve isn't the same company is was in the early years, the burdens like "Where's Half-Life 3?!" and Valve's reputation. (One could keep adding to that list but you get the idea).
CONCLUSION: The flat company structure is flawed and something needs to be done about it. Install a body of power within the company that will keep everyone and everything in order, but will also not grow into any kind of dictatorship or regime, or fall apart. A level of good control is needed, but not too much power where it will turn into corruption. Once Valve gets their shit together the employees will be happy and productive and everything will be good. Only then will there be chances of any new game getting shipped, but what the hell do I know?
@@lubieplacki2772 I'm a Trump supporter you dumbass.
@Vosvek I agree, the flat structure worked fine when Valve was small, and when the entire company was about 20 or so people working on one game. The formed what they called 'cabals' and were a bunch of friends who worked to achieve something. Now Valve has well over 300 employees with separate things to work on like Counter-Strike, Steam, or VR, but nothing is getting out the door and now the work environment there has become toxic.
Each team should have cabals within them and Gabe needs to actively check on each one instead of playing Dota 2. Review each team and its cabals for what they're working on and lay down the law to any employees who are being assholes. You're right about not having an ultimate body of power (even if that body is multiple people) that will become corrupt or anything. That's what the flat structure was intended for and it did work under the right conditions. I think Valve having flat structureS to be checked out and Gabe stepping up when needed could work and keep things in order.
I had a friend who really wanted to work at valve. They once said they were going to go insane if they didn’t get the job. I don’t know what happened to them now, but I hope they don’t want to work here still..
I have my share problems with Valve as a developer, especially in terms of sheer output ("productivity") and communication, but I have to say a lot of the "negatives" sound like petty complaints from people who weren't suited to work autonomously in the first place.
"Oh, the structure is flat and there's no formal hierarchy, but if you aren't a social type people will not interact with you a lot". Sounds like the rest of the world.
"Long-time, high-performing employees tend to have a better social stand and overall more implied authority than last entries to the team". No shit?
"You better be extremely productive or you will be looked down by many". I guess it's a reasonable counterpoint to their high bar of entry and the shitload of benefits they offer to employees.
"I don't know what to do if others don't tell me". "Find your own role and make yourself as useful as you can" was something you were told from the beginning, wasn't it?
"OH NO, BOTH SIDES arguments" sounds like something that would be counted as a net negative only on ResetERA and similar environments.
Etc, etc.
P.S. Just to be clear, regardless of how hyperbolic some of the complaints may be, I think it's only healthy for them to get their fair dose of shit every now and then.
Especially if they will address some of this stuff, it can only help to improve the situation.
*All that money, all those employees, and yet they have no more flash sales, no exciting events, no special event games, no festive events. Only old games have decent sale prices. Steam 2014-2019 has become very disappointing...*
*You have all that money & human resources, Valve celebrate gaming culture with your users/customers and throw epic events that breaks the internet & has the world talking all week!*
valve:
Here is a new employee and an experienced employee. you are both equal.
Here is a new Player in TF2 and an experienced Player in TF2. you are both equal