I remember the nightmare of spray priming reaper bones line of figures. Weeks until the tackiness went away. Nice information here! I just found your channel and subscribed. Keep up the great work! -John
The only off-brand primer horror stories I've ever experienced was always with white sprays. Rusto 2x is the only off-brand I trust besides Krylon Camouflage which are easily the best (Though they don't have a white, or even a gray. Just khaki, sand, brown, olive, and black), but even then the Rusto 2x matte flat white always does my minis dirty (Splotches or frosts, no matter what prep precautions I try).
@@2WARDEN2 It's unfortunate that you've had such bad luck with white primers. The 2x has worked well for me on CMON miniatures. I'm really going to give Krylon camo a try. Out keeps coming up in the comments.
The issue with the white sprays is because of a chemical reaction from a clay called kaolin. This is used in a lot of primers to provide extra grit for surface area and is used in a lot of hobby paints as an opacifier and matte agent. This is why paints like corax white suck because they are almost identical to the BASF formula for low grade wall and ceiling coatings. The CPVC is too high on them which reduces durability and function of them but work for hobby painting as they tend to be fairly opaque. Rustoleum also isnt an off-brand, they in fact make most of the hobby spray paints out there. Duplicolor is what P3 uses, tamiya and mr.color use a japanese automotive coatings company which is why they are considered good within the hobby.
@@MrPigments So much good information in this comment! Thanks! I think people are using "off brand" to mean " not hobby branded"...Wait...do you work for Rustoleum!?😅
@@tabletop.will.phillips after it "dries". I have done it when it's still a little wet too. These paints need humidity to cure. If you suspect the resin or plastic is reacting it also helps to put in the hot sun. Keep misting.
4:44 Wow, I'm so impressed! I've never played War of the Ring, but aren't those minis super tiny? You have achieved a lot of detail for that tiny miniature! Also, the lava painting earlier in the video looks great too! You should consider a "how to" video for that one
@@phillipstone3116 Tiny, yes! And there were 216 of them. Having them painted actually makes the game easier to play. Thanks for the comment! The Fire Giant was painted using Soratro's painting video, which is beyond excellent, so I won't be posting a lava video unless I can present something that is genuinely "mine". I'm happy to provide a link to his video here: ua-cam.com/video/hudimWrlbVQ/v-deo.htmlsi=Vc9hoxL0heurGhYw I hope you check it out!
That is amazing, sounds like a lot of effort with a lot of pay off (LOTR are my favorite movies and one of my favorite books). I am currently painting Journeys in Middle Earth. Thanks for the link! I like Sorastro's stuff!
I 3D print resin minis and I have found that the Rusto 2X is perfect every time, I always wait overnight for the paint to properly dry and I have never had the sticky primer problem. now I kind of understand why, great video ! My go to is the white and the 50% grey, I dont like to start with black primer because it make the rest of painting an up hill battle for brightness, I like to start white then airbrush on color shadows. and I never airbrush prime, the Rusto is the only thing tough enough to endure my drybrushing.
@@markrond2395 Thank you for the insightful comment! I refrained from discussing resin, because I've only ever used airbrush primer on it. Mostly because I purchased the few resin minis I have, instead of printing them myself, and didn't want to screw them up. This is really good info that you've provided. I'm glad to hear that rustoleum works so well on resin also.
@@redrooster7371 Ah yes, the rough surface is the bane of my existence! This can happen when I spray my minis from too far away in this very dry climate. Sometimes the relative humidity level here can drop into the single digits. If I spray from the recommended 8-12 inch distance in that environment, the tiny paint particles can partially dry before they reach the mini. Then these partially dry particles adhere to the mini, creating texture. No fun. Thank you so much for the comment!
Haven't had issues with loss of details and been using Rustoleum primer for years. Have had issues with stickiness when using spray paint. Thankful that you made this video, as I thought I was alone in these issues, 😅.
@@Giggan-h2r Thanks for watching! Ever have sticky issues with spray paint on GW minis? I'm getting ready to paint some, and I'm planning to use an airbrush primer to be safe.
@@TonyCaps1 Really? That's fantastic. I'll have to give this a try! The Rustoleum camo paints that I've tried dry almost to a powder finish (more chalky than matte). So, that scarred me off camo paints. I think I'll pick up this Krylon camo next time I need a primer. Thanks for the tip!
Krylon camo primers are the best non-mini brand primers I've ever used (And I've tried a TON). They're just really hard to find in store for some reason now
The only time I had issues with using a spray primer was doing so during the winter. Cold temperatures can affect how the paint dries. Also while the paint does thin out as it dries, maintain a 6 inch distance between your miniature and the paint can nozzle. You can over saturate and clog details if you are close as well as hyper focus one spot. For the newbies, make sure you are in a well vented area or outside when priming. Also see about getting a respirator mask from the hardware store. They are better at protecting your lungs than the paper masks. As for aerosol brands, I recommend the Rust-Oleum 2x paint and primer or just the primer. They come in a variety of colors and have an awesome finish. You can find it for a reasonable price at most hardware stores like Home Depot.
My Heroquest minis were tacky for 2 weeks, with Rustoleum 2x Matt Black. They remained glossy, despite being Matt paint (apparently). I let them dry to the touch before putting on an XF2 Flat White preshade. I've been busy and haven't looked at them for a while. Checking them out today, it looks like some of the freshade intensity has been lost and the dealer areas (with less white) are going glossy, again. I suspect the primer has been subtly reacting with the preshade, over time. I don't really want to strip them, so I might put a layer of varnish over, to keep the primer away from the next layers.
@@d-rex7043 That's very unfortunate. I'm curious, are Hero Quest minis a softer plastic? The same thing happened with my War of the Ring miniatures and the matte black Rustoleum 2x. They're definitely a softer plastic than something like a CMON mini. They're the only miniatures that have done that to me. Thank you for sharing your experience!
I used a local primer brand (I live in Mexico) and had it cover details of battle sisters models and even leave dust-like texture. I still don't know if the primer is too thick or I didn't mix it well enough, it is a all purpose primer, going to try rustoleum brand next because buying citadel or vallejo cans is way too expensive in comparison.
@@maurth1493 if you live in a very dry climate, the paint spray could be partially drying before it reaches the mini, creating texture. Thanks for watching!
The issues I had with hardware store rattle cans ended up being operator error. Quick, broad sprays starting & ending pointing away from the target model eliminated issues like over-spray and splatter. Great tips in the video and the comments, thanks!
So, I use spray can primers for minis and larger figurines, and I don’t notice any degradation in detail. But I use a very light touch. My friend, however, is much more heavy handed and often lets the spray accumulate and puddle. His method definitely obscures detail leaves a sticky residue which remains sticky forever.
Does anyone have any experience with Krylon Matt finish UV resistant varnish? I realized I bought a fair amount of that (instead of the 1311 version mentioned in the video) prior.
Oh I’m glad to hear it! If I recall correctly, I got them in bulk from Michael’s online, and they were way cheaper that way, glad I didn’t mess up by getting them!
Rust-oleum 2x flat white for hard plastics and a brush on for soft. I haven't had many problems aside from the random dust cloud but that's on me not being patient and waiting for a low wind day.
@@artistpoet5253 That is a very solid approach to safely priming miniatures! I feel pretty comfortable using Krylon Fusion on softer plastics, if I'm cheating, and plan to leave the spray color visible on some parts of the mini.
I dabbled with hardware store canned primers. They’re mostly fine but it came with some occasional odd results. I had one specific terrible incident with CMON minis, which resulted in sticky miniatures. Oddly enough it didn’t happen to all of them, just the hero minis. After that, I decided to just stick to Citadel and other Mini Specific Primers. I also find these higher end minis uses higher quality solvents that results in super fast drying and off load less toxic gas.
@@forouza1 Thank you for sharing your experience! That is odd. I'm guessing that the heroes were made of a different plastic? Brown heroes, gray enemies? The safest, and most cost effective way to go with primers remains to be Airbrush/brush on primers. No solvents in those.
Awesome video. I have recently embarked on this same cheaper spray primer quest, and purchased a few rustoleum primers, and 2 x coverage primers. Both left all the minis sticky, and I ended up priming over them with GW primers. 2 other super important factors to consider are nozzle clog (not a punk band) and really high paint flow rate! Rustoleum is designed to lay down paint fast! Not designed for mini painting, but more for priming patio furniture! Needs more distance
@@samhoban2509 That's a fantastic point about flow rate! I've found that the 2x has a noticeably higher flow rate than Krylon Fusion, which has a finer spray mist. When using any spray paint on minis, I think it's important to begin and end the spray OFF of the miniature, quickly moving the spray across the mini. Despite the higher flow rate, once the paint dries, I haven't had any issues with Rustoleum obscuring the details of the mini.
Two things: 1) Nearly all plastics are hard and clear if the manufacturer doesn't do something to change that. Soft minis have an added plasticizer so that they can be more easily ejected from the molding machine and so that they're less likely to shatter. I'm pretty sure that the problem with spray primer and soft minis is an interaction between the plasticizer and the solvent in the paint. Note that even if you don't have a sticky surface right after priming a soft mini with a rattle can, the mini can later develop that kind of surface. 2) Testors Spray Lacquer comes in two different forms: Glosscote and Dullcote. It can be difficult to determine which you have for some labels, but definitely look for one of those two words on the label, because they are definitely not the same.
@@dougsundseth6904 You are absolutely correct about the difficulty in determining which spray lacquer you have now. As far as I know, it is no longer branded as "Dullcote" (in the US, anyway). It was much easier when that was on the label. Now you have to look at the product description for, "altering glossy surfaces to give them a flat look". Not quite as user friendly. Thank you for pointing that out! I should have been more thorough in the video.
@@McClane4Ever. I've heard great things about the Krylon camo black. I still need to try that one out. I find it impressive that you've dialed-in your primer selection based on the type of paint that will follow. That's something that I haven't considered. Thank you for the very constructive comment!
@@animusvids Thanks for the comment! I haven't tried the Rustoleum camo black, yet. I tried 3 other colors in the Rustoleum camo line (beige, brown, green), and they seemed TOO flat to me...almost like a powder finish. It kinda scared me away from that line. I'm glad you had success with the black!
@@secondoneyay2773 Thanks for the comment! I can't see myself ever using spray paint in doors. I think that you'd need an industrial ventilation system to handle the volume, and deal with the solvents/propellants in the paint. I do have a DIY airbrush station with ventilation and filter, but that is just for the low volume, nontoxic, output of acrylic paints through an airbrush.
@@GrumblingGrognard Great! I'll look for it. The stuff I found at Wal-Mart (years ago) with the Rustoleum logo was that Watco stuff, and it's no bueno for minis. Thanks for the tip!
I havn’t painted a lot of minis overall. But most of those have been battlemechs. From others recommendations I got some spray primer. And either due to the paint of my inability to control the paint I did loose details on those battlemechs. Again, this could have easily been my issue of control and improper spray distance. The paint was rust-oleum grey primer
@@ThrehaneMiniatures for battletech minis and detailed minis I found the valajo airbrush primer simply painted on works fine for me. Again with it was probably my setup and technique then the spray can itself. I have used it on minis with less fine detail (some of the stuff in stuffed fables and mice and mystics) to great effect.
@@ThrehaneMiniatures I use it like the slap chop method. Grab a group of 4 to 6, do light fast coats. Goes by fast enough for me. My biggest must was trying to do 9 storm troopers at once. Problem wasn’t the priming but just the white
@@Trueflights Yeah, where I've occasionally run into problems is with paint+primer in one, or with the really soft miniature plastics. Flat primers on hard plastics are almost always a safe bet. Thanks for checking out the channel!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures ive never actually used that. I just use the basic cheap rattle can of black, gray, or white (depending on the colors that i'm using) as a primer itself and then just use water based acrylics to paint over it as normal. I've never had any issues. I should mention that 90% of the models I have done this with were GW style hard plastic though (the rest were 3d printed PLA), so I'm not sure if it would have different results for other types.
I use Rusto 2 as primer and have never had any problems, on hard plastic, resin and metal, but never soft plastic. I use a traditional matt varnish though, usually Army Painter or Valejo. If I use speed paints, i always use Matt varnish, after gloss varnish.
@@paulwalker5221 Interesting. So, you finish your painting projects with a coat of gloss varnish, followed by a coat of matte varnish? I assume that's because of the extra durability that the gloss varnish provides...or is there an ascetic reason for the dual clear coats?
@@ThrehaneMiniatures only with army painter speed paints, as gloss protects more from handling in games. If using inks or acrylics, shades etc, Matt varnish only is required.
I used rustolium all the time it's decent enough. But since I got my airbrush I used Vallejo it definitely goes on thinner and smoother but you would expect that.
I use rattllecans of 3$ each, they're bad, but the coats are thin, so the detail persist, then only one thin coat of brush primer and they're ready to go
Fun fact about rustoleum, they make a lot of the hobby sprays on the market. Testors and model masters sprays are the exact same things as their main line but in larger cans for a reduced price. This is a quote directly from Rustoleum too when you ask them what the difference is. Every hobby brand doesn't make their own spray paints as it requires very special tooling which costs millions which most of these companies can not afford so they outsource it to industrial coatings companies. So automotive sprays actually can be much better and cheaper than most of the hobby products on the market. You can compare MSDS's to main suppliers and figure out what is needed. Paint companies just do colors to spec of the client not binder or anything else.
@@MrPigments Yep. Seeing the Rustoleum logo on my can of Testors Dullcote is what initially got me started on this journey. However, I'm starting to wonder if "Rustoleum makes" said paint, or "Rustoleum owns the company that makes" said paint, is more accurate. Probably both are accurate statements. I've had wildly varied results with Rustoleum paints, even within the same paint line. Also, your response to the white primer issue is very insightful, and very helpful. Thank you so much for contributing to the conversation!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures I'm a material applications specialist in the coatings industry so in short I'm a glorified product tester who talks directly to labs and chemical suppliers but i have a lot of really niche incites into this stuff with tons of reading materials if you want any. Spray cans are very heavily affected by temperature shifts which is why there is a ton of inconsistencies to them and this comes down to hobby stores having better temperature controls than hardware stores. I directly order from some companies like KBS because of these issues and it doesn't really cost anymore than going to a store.
@@MrPigments You've definitely demonstrated expert knowledge here. Oh, and I'm subscribing to you're channel, and I'd recommend that anyone who sees this do the same!
I've always stuck with the "cheap stuff" for the three decades I've been doing this, and have never had major issues doing so. It makes me wince, seeing the price tag on those GW rattle cans. If you've got the space to set it up, and you're paying those exorbitant prices, I highly recommend just skipping five cans and buying a compressor for an air brush instead.
@@absolutfreak5012 What's funny is that I have an airbrush station set up, but I still find myself priming with rattle cans. Laziness, I guess. I love using the airbrush with inks and properly thinned acrylic paints for OSL, zenithal, etc, but I just don't get excited about using it for priming. I should probably work on adjusting my attitude towards that😁
@@ThrehaneMiniatures I still use the rattle cans too, despite the airbrush being pretty readily available! If doing a couple minis, the convenience of just grabbing a can and running outside for a minute can't be overstated.
@@VelourYeti Thank you! I feel a little foolish now, but I genuinely appreciate the correction. I'm using it again in a future video, so this really helps.
@@ThrehaneMiniatures not a problem at all, my friend. I personally had no idea the word even existed until I watched a British show called “Taskmaster”. Haha
@@ThrehaneMiniatures i think that spray is designed to work all at once. The way i used them was in zenathal on a box of minis every now and then. I always cleared the paint out the nozzle like you should. B
@@lanesteele240 I don't know...i have some really old stuff that still works, and I've never cleaned out a nozzle. If you purchased them at the same time, maybe there was a defective batch, or something. I'm assuming that you don't store them in extreme cold or heat. Great to hear that you've found some stuff that DOES work for you, though.
Here's an old-timer trick if you only need a little paint on primer for just a few minis. Take a small 3oz Dixie cup, point the spray primer down into it, cover with a paper towel, and spray for a bit. You can make a small puddle of primer you can paint on your minis without the side effects. 😉
@@ThrehaneMiniatures Glad you liked it. I first ran into this for touch-ups. We used to do things like base coating 30 models with say, blue. If a model or two got chipped later on, this method was the only way to get a proper color match. Also, don't forget to wear a disposable glove, otherwise you will primer/paint your finger! 😁
I feel like I’ve watched every rattle can primer video on UA-cam and my biggest conclusion is that nobody really knows for sure. From my personal experience: I’ve only used Rustoleum so far. Paint + Primer takes a long time to dry, even in high heat & low humidity but once it dries it seems fine. The primer without paint goes on thin and dries immediately
@@kevinfitzgerald9319 I completely agree (hopefully I expressed that clearly when I said, "this is anecdotal evidence from personal experience, and not science"). I think that paint+primer can best be described as "unpredictable" for it's dry time. Rustoleum Claret Wine Red dried immediately for me, but the Rustoleum Aubergine was still tacky a week later. Same line of paint, same set of Zombicide minis. Weird.
@@abyoyo That seems to be the consensus. I only stray from the Rustoleum when using a paint +primer in one on softer plastic miniatures, like those found in some less expensive board games. Thank you for checking our the channel!!!
I airbrush prime my minis typically, humid af here in the PNW so rattlecans can be a little picky. Except during the summer or terrain where i rattlecan for convenience. I typically use rustoleum primer and it has never once given me a problem. Tbf tho i use citadels death guard green on my... death guard and that stuff is fantastic. Their chaos black works well too but im not a fan of the finish and why would i pay 4 times the price for something rustoleum does and equally good job as - for me better because i like the finish more. Varnishes though i refuse to use anything other than testors dullcote. It has never once let me down and.... rustoleum makes it says so right on the can. That said rustoleums matt varnish doesnt compare so i wonder if its a proprietary formula rustoleum makes and packages for testors. Lastly AVOID ARMY PAINTER PRIMER AT ALL COST i feel like im in the minority here but i hate the stuff. Never once have i gotten a good prime stuff is crazy picky. Always gums up details and goes on gloopy. Stick with rustoleum and/or citadel
@@cameronyager9221 I agree that just because it has the Rustoleum logo on it, doesn't mean it's "the same" as other Rustoleum products. That Watco branded clear matte varnish that I showed in the video also has the Rustoleum logo on it. It behaved atrociously in my minis.
A question you should ask yourself is whether you should even bother with rattlecans. A cheap airbrush costs about the same as 2 GW cans, and at that point you are just paying for paint and compressed air. Personally I have a few main colours in rattlecan format, but use the art store own brand which is about half the price.
@@spacechannelfiver Welcome to the channel! I agree that an airbrush is the most sure-fire way to avoid sticky minis, and the more economical choice. For some reason, there is heavy resistance to the use of an airbrush in our hobby. Not sure why. Black rattle can primer is still my go to for priming, though, especially when batch painting. Thanks for participating in the discussion!
Base coat with cheap craft paints like apple barrel. Sticks to spray paint better than model paints. A wash will do the samme, giving just enough micro texture for your model paints to grab onto. My only issue with the spray paint is the finish is too smooth to directly apply gw paint to, but the craft paints have no problem with this.
@@francoismarion-eu3jq Thanks for the tip! I find that the flat primers are very easy to paint over. I agree that once you get into the finer finishes of paint+primers, you'll benefit from something with more tooth over it. I haven't considered using craft paints for this. I'll usually hit it with a matte varnish, if I feel it needs it. The craft paint angle is one more thing for me to try going forward!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures like i said, a wash will work too. My deathwing recipe is almond x2 rustolium, agrax earthshade, drybrush ubshanti bone. Super fast! No need to zenithal, but its a brighter color scheme. For something like ravenwing its best to just use craft paint black over you spray paint, then use all your expensive paints just for edge highlighting, volumes, and picking out details. The craft paint silvers are also really nice coverage, but my favorite is probably a brown and a light grey, as undercoats for craft paints depending on what colors you want to paint over them.
@@ThrehaneMiniatures no problem! I made the switch to spray paints because i was frustrated with brush stokes on vehicles with large panels, and havnt looked back lol
I plan to prime with an airbrush in the near future, however The Krylon 5x matte primers have worked great for me, and I won’t completely ditch them when I need something fast. I’ve only been in the hobby for a year and I never bought into the expensive hobby primer sprays that Citadel sells($22 a can?! GTFO with that nonsense!) One of the first videos I saw when getting into the hobby was Vinny V’s video on primer where he said: “the only difference between the Rustoleum and GW, is you pay more for the other, that is it”
@@ramonosuke Thank you for the excellent input! I haven't tried the Krylon 5x, yet. I'll have to give those a shot. I think I use rattle can primers over the airbrush mostly out of laziness. When I prime with an airbrush, I feel like I'm constantly fighting clogging issues, whereas inks and properly thinned paints flow so nicely through it. Though, I did recently see I tip where stretching panty hose material over the primer bottle opening, and placing the dropper cap over it, filters the primer to help alleviate this issue.
@@ThrehaneMiniatures The specific 5X colors I've used that have worked for ME are Matte Glacier Gray and Matte Deep Gray. The Black I've used is the regular can of Matte Primer(not the paint and primer can) it has the word "PRIMER" around the cap.
@@ramonosuke Yeah, if I'm going with black, I just use the flat primer. I only use the "paint and primer in 1" cans for a speedier painting methods where I plan to leave some of the spray color showing. I think I could have done a better job explaining that in the video. Have you used the 5x for zenithal under shading (black prime, then the gray)?
@@MekBoooooi Without issue, or have you had to learn from trial and error along the way? Personally, I've had some really good experiences, and some real disappointments throughout the years.
I would not recommend using satin spray paint as a primer for minis, it is tacky like that. Gloss is also not a good choice for unless you need it to be shiny or translucent like an ooze or a goo. I just use a flat matte in black, white, or gray using the cheap cans like you do, and that achieves the same goal without the stickiness
@@zoddsmetal That's probably the safest recommendation! I've had lots of success with the satin midnight blue spray paint, though. Using colored satin paints as a primer (paint and primer in one) is really only used as a cheat for faster painting. It's not something that I employ in my more refined painting projects. Plus, I just really enjoy experimentation...even if I fail. This coming Saturday I dip miniatures in polyurethane wood stain. What could go wrong? Thanks for the comment, and welcome to the channel!
@@TheLunatiched Ok, this is the second comment to call out reaper bones. I wonder what they're doing to their minis to achieve the "ready to paint--no priming necessary" claim, and I wonder if that's what's causing the issue. I recently picked up a couple reaper minis at my local game store, but I haven't painted one yet. Thanks for the heads-up!
For me only the older white ones, not matter what Reaper product line. I find the newer Reaper Black (that's actually a dark grey and slightly harder plastic) minis don't have that problem. What solved the sticky Reaper minis for me was just brushing over with Vallejo Game Color Polyurethane (in whatever desired finish) varnishes whenever they go tacky.
@@strahd462 Great tip! I haven't used this myself, but I've heard it suggested quite often. I'm wondering how much the environment that one is painting in impacts the results. I live in a desert, where I'm often spraying in single-digit RH. My biggest challenge is making sure that I don't spray too far away from the mini, or the paint will start to dry in the air, and add texture to the mini...probably something that people in Florida, or England, don't have to worry about. Do you warm the can because it's stored in a relatively cool area, or is this something you do no matter how warm your environment is? I'll definitely try this out. Thanks again!
@@ThrehaneMiniaturesPaint isn't normally affected too much by humidity. Clear coats are though. NEVER rattle can clear above 60%. Your clear will turn to frost. If you can get hold of some acrylic floor wax (pledge w/future floor polish is the best one) you can ab that. It's as durable as any lacquer and is about 5x cheaper
@@Vokdor1 That's good information! There are always trade-offs. Cost vs performance in this case. I haven't noticed any significant difference in spray paints with regard to obscuring details on a miniature. Of course, we paint board game miniatures here that are usually 32mm scale. I've had bigger issues with the solvents in spray paints reacting negatively with the plastics. The quality of plastics used in board game miniatures can vary wildly across all games when compared to a more consistent product like GW minis. I use Rustoleum 2x black primer for most bulk board game miniatures without issue or loss of detail. If I'm concerned with achieving the optimal priming surface, I'll use Vallejo or Monument Hobbies primer (the two that I own, not a stated preference) through an airbrush. For me, an airbrush is airways the safest way to go.
I hate people saying "cheap". I realize they are cheaper dollar wise than "hobby" primers/paints but "cheap" makes them sound low quality which isn't the case. The paints you buy in the DIY or automotive stores are designed for outdoor use. Pretty sure outdoors are harsher than Cheetos fingers. 😅😅😅 I have never bought a "hobby" rattle can paint in my life. $30 Citadel paints are no better than $6 Krylon paints. If you can get Krylon camouflage do it. The black is the best black undercoat you can ever buy. Blows the "hobby" primers out of the water. And no, DIY rattle can primers/paints aren't THICKER than "hobby" primers
@@fateweaver9844 Yeah, I haven't found "obscuring detail" to be a thing with spray paint...at least not to a noticeable degree. I'm definitely using "cheap" to mean "inexpensive", and not a reflection of the paints quality.
All very well. But get contradictory reports, cheap/car shop, or bespoke spray primer, ie citadel. Some mini tutorials say One thing, cheap speckles, and ALWAYS buy Good Stuff. HELP!
@@barryloughran3632 Speckling can occur when using rattle can paints for zenithal highlights, and white is usually the big offender. If you're laying down a single primer layer, Speckling shouldn't be an issue. I just used gray spray paint for zenithal over black, and it came out great. The safest way to go, and less expensive over time, is to prime with an airbrush. I picked up an airbrush for $16.99 USD on Amazon, and a compressor runs $60-$70. That's equivalent to 10-15 cans of paint. Something to consider.
@@kartoondscoot It's crazy how fickle plastics can be. I used the 2x black on my miniatures for years without issue, but as soon as I used it on War of the Rings minis, it got all sticky. Softer plastics seem to be the worst offenders. Thank you for sharing your experience, and Welcome to the channel!
@@puzzlejinx That, absolutely, is the lesson! Words to live by. I learned this the hard way, early on, thinking that what worked for me in the past would also work for every situation going forward. Not so. Thank you for your comment!
Krylon and rustoleum is garbage for miniature painting... pigments are not ground as fine as proper miniature primers, such as Tamiya or Vallejo sprays
@ThrehaneMiniatures as someone who test all available sprays for purchase in our area, and ones that we test before carrying, I can attest that all sprays are created unequal. I first do a spoon scratch test, krylon beige wouldn't even stick to the test spoon.
@Vokdor1 Thanks again! I have a few questions: What's your favorite brand/recommendation? What type of minis do you enjoy painting? Have you had any bad experiences using the higher quality spray paints (tamiya or Vallejo) on lower quality plastics? I know I'm asking a lot, but your expertise is greatly appreciated!
@ThrehaneMiniatures lol... I can write a book on it as it is my job... unfortunately even within the same brands, different colors can behave completely different. As an overall black primer on almost any object chaos black from citadel behaves best. Tied for second in black Tamiya and Vallejo. Cheap plastics should be thoroughly cleaned with soapy water (to remove release agents) and can be buff sanded with a high grit to improve traction (1200 grit or higher ideally) best cream for speedpaints/contrast = citadel wraithbone.. best greys = Vallejo/Tamiya. Personally I airbrush prime (way better after the learning curve) but i have to thoroughly test all available rattle cans. ALWAYS thoroughly shake the bejebus out of cans before spraying, especially brighter colors (titanium oxide clumping issue). Always store at or near room temp. When the can is empty, throw it out (don't try to get the last bit out of it as it can tend to spit pigment clumps) Always test spray before you spray your model.
@Vokdor1 You're awesome for taking the time to share this information in the comments! You just sold a can of Chaos Black. I have some hero characters that I'll try it out on. Currently I go back and forth between using Rustoleum 2x matte black primer for most CMON and Awaken Realms miniatures, and airbrush priming if I want a better surface. The price of Citadel paints make them a tough sell for me, but if they significantly out perform the Rustoleum, I'll have to convert. Thanks!
Super cool
AIRBRUSH!!!!!?!?!??!?
Asshθ£e😂😂😂😂
You rock
@@the250mikec Finally!!!! Someone made it to the end of the video!😂 YOU rock!!! Thanks for watching, and thank you for participating!!!
I remember the nightmare of spray priming reaper bones line of figures. Weeks until the tackiness went away. Nice information here! I just found your channel and subscribed. Keep up the great work!
-John
@@outofthisworldmodelsandmin898 Thank you so much! I appreciate the support!
Yeah. I've had a lot of problems with Bones minis and stickiness too.
Yeah it’s been years and my mini is still tacky. So basically the primer reacted with the plastic
Army painter matte black occasionally crystallizes weird chunks onto my minis
The only off-brand primer horror stories I've ever experienced was always with white sprays. Rusto 2x is the only off-brand I trust besides Krylon Camouflage which are easily the best (Though they don't have a white, or even a gray. Just khaki, sand, brown, olive, and black), but even then the Rusto 2x matte flat white always does my minis dirty (Splotches or frosts, no matter what prep precautions I try).
@@2WARDEN2 It's unfortunate that you've had such bad luck with white primers. The 2x has worked well for me on CMON miniatures. I'm really going to give Krylon camo a try. Out keeps coming up in the comments.
Sounds like a temperature issue, I never had an issue with Rusto, I only use grey or white but the average temperature where I live is 25C
The issue with the white sprays is because of a chemical reaction from a clay called kaolin. This is used in a lot of primers to provide extra grit for surface area and is used in a lot of hobby paints as an opacifier and matte agent. This is why paints like corax white suck because they are almost identical to the BASF formula for low grade wall and ceiling coatings. The CPVC is too high on them which reduces durability and function of them but work for hobby painting as they tend to be fairly opaque.
Rustoleum also isnt an off-brand, they in fact make most of the hobby spray paints out there. Duplicolor is what P3 uses, tamiya and mr.color use a japanese automotive coatings company which is why they are considered good within the hobby.
@@MrPigments So much good information in this comment! Thanks! I think people are using "off brand" to mean " not hobby branded"...Wait...do you work for Rustoleum!?😅
@@MrPigments I have that issue with white, but never any with black. That explains it.
I use Rust-Oleum too. I find that tackyness is often caused by lack of humidity. Giving a spritz of water will harden them up when they are tacky.
@@garyjenson1326 That sounds like a tip that's perfect for my environment. The last time I sprayed minis, the RH was only 9%. Thanks!
I primed with Rustoleum last night, going to give it a spritz and see if it fixes the tackiness
@@Bpboshoff We'd all appreciate the feedback on that!
Are you spritzing after it's dried and sticky, or while it's still drying?
@@tabletop.will.phillips after it "dries". I have done it when it's still a little wet too. These paints need humidity to cure. If you suspect the resin or plastic is reacting it also helps to put in the hot sun. Keep misting.
4:44 Wow, I'm so impressed! I've never played War of the Ring, but aren't those minis super tiny? You have achieved a lot of detail for that tiny miniature!
Also, the lava painting earlier in the video looks great too! You should consider a "how to" video for that one
@@phillipstone3116 Tiny, yes! And there were 216 of them. Having them painted actually makes the game easier to play. Thanks for the comment!
The Fire Giant was painted using Soratro's painting video, which is beyond excellent, so I won't be posting a lava video unless I can present something that is genuinely "mine". I'm happy to provide a link to his video here:
ua-cam.com/video/hudimWrlbVQ/v-deo.htmlsi=Vc9hoxL0heurGhYw
I hope you check it out!
That is amazing, sounds like a lot of effort with a lot of pay off (LOTR are my favorite movies and one of my favorite books). I am currently painting Journeys in Middle Earth.
Thanks for the link! I like Sorastro's stuff!
I 3D print resin minis and I have found that the Rusto 2X is perfect every time, I always wait overnight for the paint to properly dry and I have never had the sticky primer problem. now I kind of understand why, great video ! My go to is the white and the 50% grey, I dont like to start with black primer because it make the rest of painting an up hill battle for brightness, I like to start white then airbrush on color shadows. and I never airbrush prime, the Rusto is the only thing tough enough to endure my drybrushing.
@@markrond2395 Thank you for the insightful comment! I refrained from discussing resin, because I've only ever used airbrush primer on it. Mostly because I purchased the few resin minis I have, instead of printing them myself, and didn't want to screw them up. This is really good info that you've provided. I'm glad to hear that rustoleum works so well on resin also.
I never had primer obscuring details. But with Army Painter spray cans and sometimes with Vallejo I had a rough surface.
@@redrooster7371 Ah yes, the rough surface is the bane of my existence! This can happen when I spray my minis from too far away in this very dry climate. Sometimes the relative humidity level here can drop into the single digits. If I spray from the recommended 8-12 inch distance in that environment, the tiny paint particles can partially dry before they reach the mini. Then these partially dry particles adhere to the mini, creating texture. No fun. Thank you so much for the comment!
Haven't had issues with loss of details and been using Rustoleum primer for years. Have had issues with stickiness when using spray paint. Thankful that you made this video, as I thought I was alone in these issues, 😅.
@@Giggan-h2r Thanks for watching! Ever have sticky issues with spray paint on GW minis? I'm getting ready to paint some, and I'm planning to use an airbrush primer to be safe.
@ThrehaneMiniatures not with spray primers, but have with spray paints.
@@Giggan-h2r Ah yes, the paints or paint+primer cans are more finicky the the pure primers. Thanks!
I've had good luck with Rustoleum grey and black, but the white can go on a little thick.
@@alex-c7567 Rustoleum definitely appears to be the popular choice, with Krylon camo black getting ours fair share of mentions. Thanks for being here!
I didn’t know you could achieve this look with cheap spray paint. Really cool
@@iwasreloading1974 Thanks for watching! It's really just for the primer layer, bud.
@@ThrehaneMiniaturesAh okay 👍
Krylon camo black is the best matt black paint/primer I've ever used. It sprays so fine and it drys almost instantly.
@@TonyCaps1 Really? That's fantastic. I'll have to give this a try! The Rustoleum camo paints that I've tried dry almost to a powder finish (more chalky than matte). So, that scarred me off camo paints. I think I'll pick up this Krylon camo next time I need a primer. Thanks for the tip!
Krylon camo primers are the best non-mini brand primers I've ever used (And I've tried a TON). They're just really hard to find in store for some reason now
The only time I had issues with using a spray primer was doing so during the winter. Cold temperatures can affect how the paint dries. Also while the paint does thin out as it dries, maintain a 6 inch distance between your miniature and the paint can nozzle. You can over saturate and clog details if you are close as well as hyper focus one spot. For the newbies, make sure you are in a well vented area or outside when priming. Also see about getting a respirator mask from the hardware store. They are better at protecting your lungs than the paper masks. As for aerosol brands, I recommend the Rust-Oleum 2x paint and primer or just the primer. They come in a variety of colors and have an awesome finish. You can find it for a reasonable price at most hardware stores like Home Depot.
@@redwillow1853 Great tips all-around. Thanks!
i use the rustoleum brand dull laquer it smells the same as dull cote when spraying
@@r0llntider Ah, that distinctive stink...i Love it.
My Heroquest minis were tacky for 2 weeks, with Rustoleum 2x Matt Black. They remained glossy, despite being Matt paint (apparently).
I let them dry to the touch before putting on an XF2 Flat White preshade.
I've been busy and haven't looked at them for a while. Checking them out today, it looks like some of the freshade intensity has been lost and the dealer areas (with less white) are going glossy, again.
I suspect the primer has been subtly reacting with the preshade, over time.
I don't really want to strip them, so I might put a layer of varnish over, to keep the primer away from the next layers.
*darker areas
@@d-rex7043 That's very unfortunate. I'm curious, are Hero Quest minis a softer plastic? The same thing happened with my War of the Ring miniatures and the matte black Rustoleum 2x. They're definitely a softer plastic than something like a CMON mini. They're the only miniatures that have done that to me. Thank you for sharing your experience!
I used a local primer brand (I live in Mexico) and had it cover details of battle sisters models and even leave dust-like texture. I still don't know if the primer is too thick or I didn't mix it well enough, it is a all purpose primer, going to try rustoleum brand next because buying citadel or vallejo cans is way too expensive in comparison.
@@maurth1493 if you live in a very dry climate, the paint spray could be partially drying before it reaches the mini, creating texture. Thanks for watching!
The issues I had with hardware store rattle cans ended up being operator error. Quick, broad sprays starting & ending pointing away from the target model eliminated issues like over-spray and splatter. Great tips in the video and the comments, thanks!
@@travisskane5459 Yep. So important not to directly blast minis with spray paint. Great comment!
So, I use spray can primers for minis and larger figurines, and I don’t notice any degradation in detail. But I use a very light touch. My friend, however, is much more heavy handed and often lets the spray accumulate and puddle. His method definitely obscures detail leaves a sticky residue which remains sticky forever.
Does anyone have any experience with Krylon Matt finish UV resistant varnish? I realized I bought a fair amount of that (instead of the 1311 version mentioned in the video) prior.
@@Charlemagne260 That may even be better. A little more expensive by a buck or two (where I am). Non yellowing is important.
Oh I’m glad to hear it! If I recall correctly, I got them in bulk from Michael’s online, and they were way cheaper that way, glad I didn’t mess up by getting them!
Rust-oleum 2x flat white for hard plastics and a brush on for soft. I haven't had many problems aside from the random dust cloud but that's on me not being patient and waiting for a low wind day.
@@artistpoet5253 That is a very solid approach to safely priming miniatures! I feel pretty comfortable using Krylon Fusion on softer plastics, if I'm cheating, and plan to leave the spray color visible on some parts of the mini.
I dabbled with hardware store canned primers. They’re mostly fine but it came with some occasional odd results. I had one specific terrible incident with CMON minis, which resulted in sticky miniatures. Oddly enough it didn’t happen to all of them, just the hero minis. After that, I decided to just stick to Citadel and other Mini Specific Primers. I also find these higher end minis uses higher quality solvents that results in super fast drying and off load less toxic gas.
@@forouza1 Thank you for sharing your experience! That is odd. I'm guessing that the heroes were made of a different plastic? Brown heroes, gray enemies? The safest, and most cost effective way to go with primers remains to be Airbrush/brush on primers. No solvents in those.
Awesome video. I have recently embarked on this same cheaper spray primer quest, and purchased a few rustoleum primers, and 2 x coverage primers. Both left all the minis sticky, and I ended up priming over them with GW primers.
2 other super important factors to consider are nozzle clog (not a punk band) and really high paint flow rate! Rustoleum is designed to lay down paint fast! Not designed for mini painting, but more for priming patio furniture! Needs more distance
@@samhoban2509 That's a fantastic point about flow rate! I've found that the 2x has a noticeably higher flow rate than Krylon Fusion, which has a finer spray mist. When using any spray paint on minis, I think it's important to begin and end the spray OFF of the miniature, quickly moving the spray across the mini. Despite the higher flow rate, once the paint dries, I haven't had any issues with Rustoleum obscuring the details of the mini.
Two things:
1) Nearly all plastics are hard and clear if the manufacturer doesn't do something to change that. Soft minis have an added plasticizer so that they can be more easily ejected from the molding machine and so that they're less likely to shatter. I'm pretty sure that the problem with spray primer and soft minis is an interaction between the plasticizer and the solvent in the paint. Note that even if you don't have a sticky surface right after priming a soft mini with a rattle can, the mini can later develop that kind of surface.
2) Testors Spray Lacquer comes in two different forms: Glosscote and Dullcote. It can be difficult to determine which you have for some labels, but definitely look for one of those two words on the label, because they are definitely not the same.
@@dougsundseth6904 You are absolutely correct about the difficulty in determining which spray lacquer you have now. As far as I know, it is no longer branded as "Dullcote" (in the US, anyway). It was much easier when that was on the label. Now you have to look at the product description for, "altering glossy surfaces to give them a flat look". Not quite as user friendly. Thank you for pointing that out! I should have been more thorough in the video.
Rust-Oleum and Krylon flat Camouflage are my favorite for standard paint. Rust-Oleum 2x is what I use for Xpress paint.
@@McClane4Ever. I've heard great things about the Krylon camo black. I still need to try that one out. I find it impressive that you've dialed-in your primer selection based on the type of paint that will follow. That's something that I haven't considered. Thank you for the very constructive comment!
I use Rust Oleum Camouflage flat black for hard plastic, but for BG minis I prefer Vallejo Primer with the airbrush.
@@animusvids Thanks for the comment! I haven't tried the Rustoleum camo black, yet. I tried 3 other colors in the Rustoleum camo line (beige, brown, green), and they seemed TOO flat to me...almost like a powder finish. It kinda scared me away from that line. I'm glad you had success with the black!
These tips are great! Can go beyond to other hobbies as well. Do you have a rattle can spray paint setup indoors?
@@secondoneyay2773 Thanks for the comment! I can't see myself ever using spray paint in doors. I think that you'd need an industrial ventilation system to handle the volume, and deal with the solvents/propellants in the paint. I do have a DIY airbrush station with ventilation and filter, but that is just for the low volume, nontoxic, output of acrylic paints through an airbrush.
Krylon ColorMaxx range is AMAZING for priming minis and their Flat Black is a perfect 1:1 match to Vallejo model color black.
@@John_on_the_mountain Perfect! Thanks!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures i use to prime my minis black then have to go over it again with Vallejo black. No more!!
Rustoleum makes Dulcoat in big-ass cans and sells it at WalMart. They call it "Clear Topcoat: Dead Flat". Much cheaper than the tiny cans.
@@GrumblingGrognard Great! I'll look for it. The stuff I found at Wal-Mart (years ago) with the Rustoleum logo was that Watco stuff, and it's no bueno for minis. Thanks for the tip!
I havn’t painted a lot of minis overall. But most of those have been battlemechs. From others recommendations I got some spray primer. And either due to the paint of my inability to control the paint I did loose details on those battlemechs. Again, this could have easily been my issue of control and improper spray distance.
The paint was rust-oleum grey primer
@@mattg5852 I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with priming. Did you find an alternative that works for you?
@@ThrehaneMiniatures for battletech minis and detailed minis I found the valajo airbrush primer simply painted on works fine for me.
Again with it was probably my setup and technique then the spray can itself. I have used it on minis with less fine detail (some of the stuff in stuffed fables and mice and mystics) to great effect.
@@mattg5852 Yeah, brush-on and airbrush priming are the safest bet. Just not as convenient for us lazy-types.
@@ThrehaneMiniatures I use it like the slap chop method. Grab a group of 4 to 6, do light fast coats. Goes by fast enough for me. My biggest must was trying to do 9 storm troopers at once. Problem wasn’t the priming but just the white
I've used the cheap no name brand Wal-Mart paints as a base primer for 30 years now with no issues. I can't see ever changing that.
@@Trueflights Yeah, where I've occasionally run into problems is with paint+primer in one, or with the really soft miniature plastics. Flat primers on hard plastics are almost always a safe bet. Thanks for checking out the channel!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures ive never actually used that. I just use the basic cheap rattle can of black, gray, or white (depending on the colors that i'm using) as a primer itself and then just use water based acrylics to paint over it as normal. I've never had any issues. I should mention that 90% of the models I have done this with were GW style hard plastic though (the rest were 3d printed PLA), so I'm not sure if it would have different results for other types.
I use Rusto 2 as primer and have never had any problems, on hard plastic, resin and metal, but never soft plastic. I use a traditional matt varnish though, usually Army Painter or Valejo. If I use speed paints, i always use Matt varnish, after gloss varnish.
@@paulwalker5221 Interesting. So, you finish your painting projects with a coat of gloss varnish, followed by a coat of matte varnish? I assume that's because of the extra durability that the gloss varnish provides...or is there an ascetic reason for the dual clear coats?
@@ThrehaneMiniatures only with army painter speed paints, as gloss protects more from handling in games. If using inks or acrylics, shades etc, Matt varnish only is required.
@@paulwalker5221 Ah, got it. Thanks!
I used rustolium all the time it's decent enough. But since I got my airbrush I used Vallejo it definitely goes on thinner and smoother but you would expect that.
@@Bish186 I use airbrush priming on particularly finicky plastics, but still find myself going back to cabs for the convenience. Laziness, I guess.
i use the rustoleum primer my self. I love it
Flat products are great
I use rattllecans of 3$ each, they're bad, but the coats are thin, so the detail persist, then only one thin coat of brush primer and they're ready to go
@@ewchi-m4n012 Very interesting approach. I like it!
Fun fact about rustoleum, they make a lot of the hobby sprays on the market.
Testors and model masters sprays are the exact same things as their main line but in larger cans for a reduced price. This is a quote directly from Rustoleum too when you ask them what the difference is.
Every hobby brand doesn't make their own spray paints as it requires very special tooling which costs millions which most of these companies can not afford so they outsource it to industrial coatings companies.
So automotive sprays actually can be much better and cheaper than most of the hobby products on the market. You can compare MSDS's to main suppliers and figure out what is needed.
Paint companies just do colors to spec of the client not binder or anything else.
@@MrPigments Yep. Seeing the Rustoleum logo on my can of Testors Dullcote is what initially got me started on this journey. However, I'm starting to wonder if "Rustoleum makes" said paint, or "Rustoleum owns the company that makes" said paint, is more accurate. Probably both are accurate statements. I've had wildly varied results with Rustoleum paints, even within the same paint line.
Also, your response to the white primer issue is very insightful, and very helpful. Thank you so much for contributing to the conversation!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures I'm a material applications specialist in the coatings industry so in short I'm a glorified product tester who talks directly to labs and chemical suppliers but i have a lot of really niche incites into this stuff with tons of reading materials if you want any.
Spray cans are very heavily affected by temperature shifts which is why there is a ton of inconsistencies to them and this comes down to hobby stores having better temperature controls than hardware stores.
I directly order from some companies like KBS because of these issues and it doesn't really cost anymore than going to a store.
@@MrPigments You've definitely demonstrated expert knowledge here. Oh, and I'm subscribing to you're channel, and I'd recommend that anyone who sees this do the same!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures I'd gladly do collabs with you too if you wanted. I can show you some really bizarre effects from pigments
@@MrPigments Sounds fun!
I've always stuck with the "cheap stuff" for the three decades I've been doing this, and have never had major issues doing so. It makes me wince, seeing the price tag on those GW rattle cans.
If you've got the space to set it up, and you're paying those exorbitant prices, I highly recommend just skipping five cans and buying a compressor for an air brush instead.
@@absolutfreak5012 What's funny is that I have an airbrush station set up, but I still find myself priming with rattle cans. Laziness, I guess. I love using the airbrush with inks and properly thinned acrylic paints for OSL, zenithal, etc, but I just don't get excited about using it for priming. I should probably work on adjusting my attitude towards that😁
@@ThrehaneMiniatures I still use the rattle cans too, despite the airbrush being pretty readily available!
If doing a couple minis, the convenience of just grabbing a can and running outside for a minute can't be overstated.
Good info.
Just an FYI:
Aubergine is what Europeans call eggplants and is pronounced “oh bur jean”.
@@VelourYeti Thank you! I feel a little foolish now, but I genuinely appreciate the correction. I'm using it again in a future video, so this really helps.
@@ThrehaneMiniatures not a problem at all, my friend. I personally had no idea the word even existed until I watched a British show called “Taskmaster”. Haha
Very nice video, definitely subbing👍
@@nonamo5700 Thanks. I appreciate the support!
I have 5 3/4 full cans of 2x rustoleum flat primer that wont spray. All my hobby primer sprays. Even 3-4 year old citadel
@@lanesteele240 Wow, I don't even know what to make of that. I'm sorry to hear that the 2x failed you.
@@ThrehaneMiniatures i think that spray is designed to work all at once. The way i used them was in zenathal on a box of minis every now and then. I always cleared the paint out the nozzle like you should. B
@@lanesteele240 I don't know...i have some really old stuff that still works, and I've never cleaned out a nozzle. If you purchased them at the same time, maybe there was a defective batch, or something. I'm assuming that you don't store them in extreme cold or heat. Great to hear that you've found some stuff that DOES work for you, though.
As long as you dont over spray, and spray at a distance youre good
Here's an old-timer trick if you only need a little paint on primer for just a few minis. Take a small 3oz Dixie cup, point the spray primer down into it, cover with a paper towel, and spray for a bit. You can make a small puddle of primer you can paint on your minis without the side effects. 😉
@@MrOmega-cz9yo Very, very, cool tip! That's honestly something I've never considered. Thank you for the useful info!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures Glad you liked it. I first ran into this for touch-ups. We used to do things like base coating 30 models with say, blue. If a model or two got chipped later on, this method was the only way to get a proper color match.
Also, don't forget to wear a disposable glove, otherwise you will primer/paint your finger! 😁
good tips thank you
I feel like I’ve watched every rattle can primer video on UA-cam and my biggest conclusion is that nobody really knows for sure.
From my personal experience: I’ve only used Rustoleum so far. Paint + Primer takes a long time to dry, even in high heat & low humidity but once it dries it seems fine. The primer without paint goes on thin and dries immediately
@@kevinfitzgerald9319 I completely agree (hopefully I expressed that clearly when I said, "this is anecdotal evidence from personal experience, and not science"). I think that paint+primer can best be described as "unpredictable" for it's dry time. Rustoleum Claret Wine Red dried immediately for me, but the Rustoleum Aubergine was still tacky a week later. Same line of paint, same set of Zombicide minis. Weird.
Threhane sir! You EVIL GENIUS YOU!!!
I use the rostoleum for mine
@@abyoyo That seems to be the consensus. I only stray from the Rustoleum when using a paint +primer in one on softer plastic miniatures, like those found in some less expensive board games. Thank you for checking our the channel!!!
I airbrush prime my minis typically, humid af here in the PNW so rattlecans can be a little picky.
Except during the summer or terrain where i rattlecan for convenience. I typically use rustoleum primer and it has never once given me a problem.
Tbf tho i use citadels death guard green on my... death guard and that stuff is fantastic. Their chaos black works well too but im not a fan of the finish and why would i pay 4 times the price for something rustoleum does and equally good job as - for me better because i like the finish more.
Varnishes though i refuse to use anything other than testors dullcote. It has never once let me down and.... rustoleum makes it says so right on the can. That said rustoleums matt varnish doesnt compare so i wonder if its a proprietary formula rustoleum makes and packages for testors.
Lastly AVOID ARMY PAINTER PRIMER AT ALL COST i feel like im in the minority here but i hate the stuff. Never once have i gotten a good prime stuff is crazy picky. Always gums up details and goes on gloopy. Stick with rustoleum and/or citadel
@@cameronyager9221 I agree that just because it has the Rustoleum logo on it, doesn't mean it's "the same" as other Rustoleum products. That Watco branded clear matte varnish that I showed in the video also has the Rustoleum logo on it. It behaved atrociously in my minis.
A question you should ask yourself is whether you should even bother with rattlecans. A cheap airbrush costs about the same as 2 GW cans, and at that point you are just paying for paint and compressed air. Personally I have a few main colours in rattlecan format, but use the art store own brand which is about half the price.
@@spacechannelfiver Welcome to the channel! I agree that an airbrush is the most sure-fire way to avoid sticky minis, and the more economical choice. For some reason, there is heavy resistance to the use of an airbrush in our hobby. Not sure why. Black rattle can primer is still my go to for priming, though, especially when batch painting. Thanks for participating in the discussion!
Base coat with cheap craft paints like apple barrel. Sticks to spray paint better than model paints. A wash will do the samme, giving just enough micro texture for your model paints to grab onto. My only issue with the spray paint is the finish is too smooth to directly apply gw paint to, but the craft paints have no problem with this.
@@francoismarion-eu3jq Thanks for the tip! I find that the flat primers are very easy to paint over. I agree that once you get into the finer finishes of paint+primers, you'll benefit from something with more tooth over it. I haven't considered using craft paints for this. I'll usually hit it with a matte varnish, if I feel it needs it. The craft paint angle is one more thing for me to try going forward!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures like i said, a wash will work too. My deathwing recipe is almond x2 rustolium, agrax earthshade, drybrush ubshanti bone. Super fast! No need to zenithal, but its a brighter color scheme. For something like ravenwing its best to just use craft paint black over you spray paint, then use all your expensive paints just for edge highlighting, volumes, and picking out details. The craft paint silvers are also really nice coverage, but my favorite is probably a brown and a light grey, as undercoats for craft paints depending on what colors you want to paint over them.
@@francoismarion-eu3jq Specific recipes are always appreciated! Thank you!
@@ThrehaneMiniatures no problem! I made the switch to spray paints because i was frustrated with brush stokes on vehicles with large panels, and havnt looked back lol
I found to get the best results. DO NOT spray them in direct sunlight on a hot day. They will sometime bake in the air.
@@thepoliticalstartrek Yep. All that plus 9% RH is my biggest obstacle. Freakin desert!
I plan to prime with an airbrush in the near future, however The Krylon 5x matte primers have worked great for me, and I won’t completely ditch them when I need something fast. I’ve only been in the hobby for a year and I never bought into the expensive hobby primer sprays that Citadel sells($22 a can?! GTFO with that nonsense!)
One of the first videos I saw when getting into the hobby was Vinny V’s video on primer where he said: “the only difference between the Rustoleum and GW, is you pay more for the other, that is it”
@@ramonosuke Thank you for the excellent input! I haven't tried the Krylon 5x, yet. I'll have to give those a shot. I think I use rattle can primers over the airbrush mostly out of laziness. When I prime with an airbrush, I feel like I'm constantly fighting clogging issues, whereas inks and properly thinned paints flow so nicely through it. Though, I did recently see I tip where stretching panty hose material over the primer bottle opening, and placing the dropper cap over it, filters the primer to help alleviate this issue.
@@ThrehaneMiniaturesI'm with you. Rattle can is 25x faster. I shake, prime, put can back where I found it. Done
@@ThrehaneMiniatures The specific 5X colors I've used that have worked for ME are Matte Glacier Gray and Matte Deep Gray. The Black I've used is the regular can of Matte Primer(not the paint and primer can) it has the word "PRIMER" around the cap.
@@ramonosuke Yeah, if I'm going with black, I just use the flat primer. I only use the "paint and primer in 1" cans for a speedier painting methods where I plan to leave some of the spray color showing. I think I could have done a better job explaining that in the video. Have you used the 5x for zenithal under shading (black prime, then the gray)?
Ive been using these for years
@@MekBoooooi Without issue, or have you had to learn from trial and error along the way? Personally, I've had some really good experiences, and some real disappointments throughout the years.
I would not recommend using satin spray paint as a primer for minis, it is tacky like that. Gloss is also not a good choice for unless you need it to be shiny or translucent like an ooze or a goo. I just use a flat matte in black, white, or gray using the cheap cans like you do, and that achieves the same goal without the stickiness
@@zoddsmetal That's probably the safest recommendation! I've had lots of success with the satin midnight blue spray paint, though. Using colored satin paints as a primer (paint and primer in one) is really only used as a cheat for faster painting. It's not something that I employ in my more refined painting projects. Plus, I just really enjoy experimentation...even if I fail. This coming Saturday I dip miniatures in polyurethane wood stain. What could go wrong? Thanks for the comment, and welcome to the channel!
The only sticky minis I have ever encountered is reaper bones.
@@TheLunatiched Ok, this is the second comment to call out reaper bones. I wonder what they're doing to their minis to achieve the "ready to paint--no priming necessary" claim, and I wonder if that's what's causing the issue. I recently picked up a couple reaper minis at my local game store, but I haven't painted one yet. Thanks for the heads-up!
For me only the older white ones, not matter what Reaper product line. I find the newer Reaper Black (that's actually a dark grey and slightly harder plastic) minis don't have that problem. What solved the sticky Reaper minis for me was just brushing over with Vallejo Game Color Polyurethane (in whatever desired finish) varnishes whenever they go tacky.
Warm the can in hot water before using.Better spray,better finish..js
@@strahd462 Great tip! I haven't used this myself, but I've heard it suggested quite often. I'm wondering how much the environment that one is painting in impacts the results. I live in a desert, where I'm often spraying in single-digit RH. My biggest challenge is making sure that I don't spray too far away from the mini, or the paint will start to dry in the air, and add texture to the mini...probably something that people in Florida, or England, don't have to worry about. Do you warm the can because it's stored in a relatively cool area, or is this something you do no matter how warm your environment is? I'll definitely try this out. Thanks again!
@@ThrehaneMiniaturesPaint isn't normally affected too much by humidity. Clear coats are though. NEVER rattle can clear above 60%. Your clear will turn to frost.
If you can get hold of some acrylic floor wax (pledge w/future floor polish is the best one) you can ab that. It's as durable as any lacquer and is about 5x cheaper
@@strahd462 Awesome, thank you!
Cheap primers have larger pigments which obfuscate details more.
-professional in the industry
@@Vokdor1 That's good information! There are always trade-offs. Cost vs performance in this case. I haven't noticed any significant difference in spray paints with regard to obscuring details on a miniature. Of course, we paint board game miniatures here that are usually 32mm scale. I've had bigger issues with the solvents in spray paints reacting negatively with the plastics. The quality of plastics used in board game miniatures can vary wildly across all games when compared to a more consistent product like GW minis. I use Rustoleum 2x black primer for most bulk board game miniatures without issue or loss of detail. If I'm concerned with achieving the optimal priming surface, I'll use Vallejo or Monument Hobbies primer (the two that I own, not a stated preference) through an airbrush. For me, an airbrush is airways the safest way to go.
Huh. I never considered NOT using the cheap spray paint from Walmart.
@@Bobzonthejob This comment made me smile. Perfect.
I hate people saying "cheap". I realize they are cheaper dollar wise than "hobby" primers/paints but "cheap" makes them sound low quality which isn't the case. The paints you buy in the DIY or automotive stores are designed for outdoor use. Pretty sure outdoors are harsher than Cheetos fingers. 😅😅😅
I have never bought a "hobby" rattle can paint in my life. $30 Citadel paints are no better than $6 Krylon paints.
If you can get Krylon camouflage do it. The black is the best black undercoat you can ever buy. Blows the "hobby" primers out of the water.
And no, DIY rattle can primers/paints aren't THICKER than "hobby" primers
@@fateweaver9844 Yeah, I haven't found "obscuring detail" to be a thing with spray paint...at least not to a noticeable degree. I'm definitely using "cheap" to mean "inexpensive", and not a reflection of the paints quality.
All very well. But get contradictory reports, cheap/car shop, or bespoke spray primer, ie citadel.
Some mini tutorials say One thing, cheap speckles, and ALWAYS buy Good Stuff.
HELP!
@@barryloughran3632 Speckling can occur when using rattle can paints for zenithal highlights, and white is usually the big offender. If you're laying down a single primer layer, Speckling shouldn't be an issue. I just used gray spray paint for zenithal over black, and it came out great. The safest way to go, and less expensive over time, is to prime with an airbrush. I picked up an airbrush for $16.99 USD on Amazon, and a compressor runs $60-$70. That's equivalent to 10-15 cans of paint. Something to consider.
Rustoleum 2x flat gray primer will make your Heroquest minis stickey. Do not use.
@@kartoondscoot It's crazy how fickle plastics can be. I used the 2x black on my miniatures for years without issue, but as soon as I used it on War of the Rings minis, it got all sticky. Softer plastics seem to be the worst offenders. Thank you for sharing your experience, and Welcome to the channel!
Maybe you should stop experimenting on huge batches of minis and do one at a time to see
@@puzzlejinx That, absolutely, is the lesson! Words to live by. I learned this the hard way, early on, thinking that what worked for me in the past would also work for every situation going forward. Not so. Thank you for your comment!
Krylon and rustoleum is garbage for miniature painting... pigments are not ground as fine as proper miniature primers, such as Tamiya or Vallejo sprays
@@Vokdor1 I appreciate your passion on the subject! More input is always welcomed here.
@ThrehaneMiniatures as someone who test all available sprays for purchase in our area, and ones that we test before carrying, I can attest that all sprays are created unequal.
I first do a spoon scratch test, krylon beige wouldn't even stick to the test spoon.
@Vokdor1 Thanks again! I have a few questions: What's your favorite brand/recommendation? What type of minis do you enjoy painting? Have you had any bad experiences using the higher quality spray paints (tamiya or Vallejo) on lower quality plastics? I know I'm asking a lot, but your expertise is greatly appreciated!
@ThrehaneMiniatures lol... I can write a book on it as it is my job... unfortunately even within the same brands, different colors can behave completely different. As an overall black primer on almost any object chaos black from citadel behaves best. Tied for second in black Tamiya and Vallejo. Cheap plastics should be thoroughly cleaned with soapy water (to remove release agents) and can be buff sanded with a high grit to improve traction (1200 grit or higher ideally) best cream for speedpaints/contrast = citadel wraithbone.. best greys = Vallejo/Tamiya.
Personally I airbrush prime (way better after the learning curve) but i have to thoroughly test all available rattle cans.
ALWAYS thoroughly shake the bejebus out of cans before spraying, especially brighter colors (titanium oxide clumping issue). Always store at or near room temp. When the can is empty, throw it out (don't try to get the last bit out of it as it can tend to spit pigment clumps)
Always test spray before you spray your model.
@Vokdor1 You're awesome for taking the time to share this information in the comments! You just sold a can of Chaos Black. I have some hero characters that I'll try it out on. Currently I go back and forth between using Rustoleum 2x matte black primer for most CMON and Awaken Realms miniatures, and airbrush priming if I want a better surface. The price of Citadel paints make them a tough sell for me, but if they significantly out perform the Rustoleum, I'll have to convert. Thanks!
Sub
@@metalblizzard6024 Awesome! Welcome!