The Alt-Right Playbook: Negging and Love-Bombing
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 жов 2023
- patreon: / innuendostudios
tumblr: / innuendostudios
twitter: / innuendostudios
nebula: nebula.tv/innuendostudios
research: innuendostudios.tumblr.com/po...
transcript: www.tumblr.com/innuendostudio...
I learned about this technique from a Twitter thread by VEX: / 855074427419209728 - Розваги
How to have a weeks-long debate with a reactionary on social media:
Step 1: Don't!
For real. I go at it online but after a week of debate, at some point I realize I am being crazy and I need to walk away.
Remember though. You are ALWAYS right and your opinion, however recently formed, is not up for debate. In fact, make a video how to walk away from debate while instilling a feeling of being 'wronged' by those that disagree at every possible instance.
yeah honestly. crash course in how to ruin your mental health: argue incessantly with everyone who disagrees with you and never drop it even when you can't remember what you were arguing about.
I'm as antifascist as every other sub to this channel, but if you're in the situation described in this video, you need to exercise the platform's block feature and go touch grass. social media isn't real life.
Don't feed the trolls.
Seriously. And I thought I felt shitty after arguing with some chud on reddit for a couple hours, I can't imagine giving weeks of thought to these guys.
I remember when I got absolutely dogpiled by alt-right Twitter some years ago. I mostly let them insult me unimpeded because it felt good to know I'd struck a nerve, but the only ones I actually BLOCKED were the ones who, after insulting me, would turn around and try to buddy-up to me. THOSE guys in particular could feck right off.
This is why I'm perma-banned on twitter. It was a different time. I kinda miss it tbh...
@@azuredystopia3751that's a badge of honor and you should wear it produly
I see it a lot as a trans woman. Once they realize I know a lot more about biology than them, and they can't win their debate with me, there's the 1 in 100 chance that they start hitting on me/asking about if I've had the surgery. God awful, these people.
Please excuse for not taking part in the conversation, but how is this comment 5 days old when the video was released under an hour ago?
@@cordeliabarber4553 Oooof. Trans woman as well here, and haven't yet kicked this hornet's nest. 😅 Love your username!
It’s like how cults will play on your worst fears and insecurities and then offer you “acceptance”
The key is everyone wants that acceptance. Everyone wants to belong. The issue therein with toxic communities (authoritarians, fascists, incels, etc.), they want you to belong. And you don't even have to believe in the things they believe to belong to their group. You'll get their support, they promise it. However, their support comes with the reality that, although they care about you, they are actively assailing the liberties of others. A fascist might be a good friend, on a personal level, if you need a friend. But no fascist is good, and thus, making friends with a fascist only ends up bad, because at very least, your acceptance of them as a decent human being without criticism allows them to continue to infringe upon others.
that's cause it is a cult
Indeed, the term "Love Bombing" was coined by a cult called the Children of God.
Legit. I first heard of love-bombing in the context of 'things cults do'
Yeah its the exact same thing. To frame this as an "alt-right" play is disingenuous imo because literally any ideologue or faction could pull this same stunt, and many do.
If someone I don't know jumps onto the hate-train right out of the gate, if they suddenly try to get all friendly with me, I'm gonna call them out on it. I've been abused enough to recognize the signs of an abuser.
Nice ace flag ^^
@@aroace7913 You too
nice aradia
@@Catastophi Thanks, yours too.
This is why aradia likers are based
This by the way is the opposite of how friendships should work, where you start with being friendly and loving then move into the phase of bullying eachother. 🤣
I love that description of friendship, it's so accurate
Is why I don't make friends easily. I hate this game.
I wish this sentiment was not so common, because imo it helps disguise people who are still abusive but more patient.
Being comfortable enough to let your various masks slip or occasionally say a cruder comment to a friend than your would a stranger is not the same as bullying your friends. Being a little impatient with a friend cuz you've dealt with their shit 1000x before and aren't having it at this particular moment isn't bullying them.
Bullying your friends means you aren't their friend. You're their bully.
@@gsgaming6976I think OP meant bullying in an ironic way, not ACTUAL bullying.
@@gsgaming6976 Yeah, to clarify, not OP, but I say that I "bully" my friends and they bully me. That isn't being used as an excuse to belittle them or pick at their insecurities, or even be impatient. "Bullying" in the context of a close friend is like, having contests where you try to scare each other walking around corners, or mutual joking about each other's transness, or coming up with stupid nicknames to "torment" each other with. It's in good fun, but is something that I would feel uncomfortable with if a stranger did it to me, and stuff I would never do to someone I didn't know well enough for us to understand each other's comfort levels.
There is nothing worse than people spewing vile shit and then being all nice to you "at least we can have a civil conversation about it :)" when "it" is them questionning basic human rights. It just makes my skin crawl cause it shows how it's not serious for them, they don't realize the level of hatred they're projecting, it's totally abstract to them without actual human lives impacted.
I don't know if I'd say they *don't* realize the hatred they're spewing, as that would be giving them the benefit of the doubt and treating them as children who "don't know better", I believe they *do* realize it - they just don't care. They care that [they think] their tone-policing is working.
@@cannibalisticrequiem to clarify I think they know what they are doing they just don't *feel* it if that make sense? Like, they get to be detached from it and just see it as abstract or as a game.
You are not above your own criticisms. This Israeli/ Palestinian debate has shown sides of people I even agree with as filled with hate and I have to step away from their full support evennif they bring up good points within their hateful rhetoric. I hope you have just as much introspection as this is how Brown Shirts and Red Guard formed within the masses of their respective eras. Watch your peers carefully. True colors get shown during these times and those jumping into seething rage before equipping oneself in the facts and NOT the rumors are the ones to trust. Check that you have not donned the "Brown Shirt" or are reading from the "Red Book" and I will do the same.
@@Dooger414 I'll be honest I'm not sure what the "brown shirt", "red book" thing is about and I'm not sure what position you're assuming I'm having. That message is honestly a bit confusing, I don't think I disagree from what I understand but I'm also not sure I understand it so...
@@Dooger414
Don’t let loneliness be used against you. Friends aren’t bigots, and bigots are not your friend
*Never* question why you are alone either. It is all their fault! And if they don't agree with you? Well, ditch them too!
...wait
@@Dooger414 your point?
@@Dooger414 you're not that bright, are you? what kind of argument is this supposed to be, exactly -- "let anyone who wants to harass you be fully in your space with no boundaries"? you realize that's just bully propaganda right
@@Dooger414blud what are you wafflin about
@gking407 I think it's something along the lines of, "US BIGOTS ARE PEOPLE TOO!" At least that's the impression I'm getting.
2 things that should NOT be left unsaid:
1: How informed you are about the minutiae of decades-old history has little to do with your positions on current events and situations. To stick with the video's example, whether or not you know the details of the British withdrawal and the original two-state solution in the 40's means very little when discussing Israel in 2023. Quizzing you on historical facts is nothing but an attempt at scoring cheap points and a distraction from the actual discussion.
2: In the spaces where arguments like this tend to occur (like political image boards or UA-cam comments), there often exists an unsaid agreement that every viewpoint and idea is equally valid and deserving of respect, that these debates are happening between people on equal footing for the purpose of arriving at the truth.
Thats. Not. True.
People from every political side, but ESPECIALLY the far-right engage in these debates to recruit. If not to recruit you, then recruit someone else who will be reading the exchange later. They don't care about the truth, they dont care about respect, and they certainly dont care about your ideas. All of these thing, to them, are tools to be used, and they matter exactly as long as they are useful to them. You have zero reasons to engage with them.
my view for many years now has been 'if they are not responding as you think they should be, you are not having the argument you think you are... so what are /they/ here for?' and the answer as a rule can be summed up by the word 'grooming.'
1) this is a very disingenuous argument. You are either implying that history doesn't matter(this is just a plain lie) or using a straw man, that says everyone who cares about this conflicts history only cares about "the minutiae of decades-old history has little to do with the positions on current events"
@@user-rk7nf1ot4b Nice strawman you did there, but they wrote none of that
History do matter, it simply doesn't when you say "Israel is doing bad things currently" because that's a fact
@@user-rk7nf1ot4b See, THAT is a strawman, not what I said.
Studying history is obviously important, I myself am quite the history nerd. Knowing the history of this or any conflict can always give insight to the current situation. Nothing in my comment suggests otherwise.
BUT! How informed you are about a conflict's history has NOTHING to do with your views on the CURRENT conflict. It does not matter how much you know about the Nakba, previous peace attempts, or the history of the Israeli government or Hamas. Because at the end of the day, Israel, right now, is a fascist ethnostate actively carrying out a genocide. THAT is the point of contention, THAT is what we're discussing, THAT is what one needs to respond to, not the history of how we ended up here. That is, at best, a secondary topic.
Magnificent commentary.
Love the return of Alt-Right Playbook content recently. Thank you!
Yeah, I don't mind the video game stuff, but it's... not really why I'm here.
@@WouldbeSage lmao I literally thought the same shh lol
are you guys privy to some content I'm missing?
@@user-sl6gn1ss8p Ian has been more or less inactive over the past couple years, and the videos he has produced have been mostly video game related
@@Wyattporterwait what videos about games? The covids?
I feel like this lines up with "You're one of the good ones." If you don't fit the archetype they've built up in their minds about who or what you are, they'll often backhandedly compliment you by going "Wow a smart X! You don't usually see those."
Oh there's several essays to be had there!! I think yr on to something
This happens a LOT when arguing with red pill sorts. They can't imagine why I, a seemingly intelligent woman, would be agreeing with some nebulous "them." Jokes on them, I've known about dudes being weirdly nice to me since puberty.
you know how when you're a little kid you can't figure out how the hell adults can always tell when you're lying? it's like that with shitty dudes not understanding why so many women can see them coming a mile away. they'll never understand because they don't acknowledge what it's like getting creeped on the second you hit the training bra section of Wal-Mart. I hadn't even started my period yet.
@@xXluluchanelXx yall have so much confirmation bias xD
@@jeffreychandler8418 Seems like that struck a nerve. If you don't wanna catch strays then get out of the line of fire.
@@gwen9939 yeah it did strike a nerve because people (women included) misread people all the time, and in cases such as these, its particularly important to acknowledge misses. Maybe don't fire into a crowd.
reminds me of a thing with my girlfriend where she was friends online with some trashy vaush-type who clings to virtue signalling and does alot of racism amd other bigotry lol, anyway, he was being nice to her until i started dating her and joining in her side online against him when he went mask off with the slurs and told us to stay in our echo chamber
calling a relationship a political echo chamber is the funniest shit
It’s surreal how often the recruitment and PR tactics of horrifying ideologies mirror the abuse tactics of close toxic relationships. Heartbreaking even.
People wanting power will learn from other people wanting power.
Hey if having episodes means having them be shorter so you dont lose your sanity, keep it up. I'm liking how succinct these are. Keep it up Ian
There's a lot of juice in a small package!
lol these were originally planned as a really long Lightning Round video for all the arguments I'd collected along the way that hadn't made their way into other videos. took a lot of work to convince myself I could just release them as shorts.
@@InnuendoStudios Ever think about being a guest on some other channels? It would be great to see your intellect up against those flat-earther 'critics'.
@@InnuendoStudios I think that's very practical in a way, like you could send someone That One Subject instead of digging for a timestamp in a longer video (when the subject isn't wide enough that it needs a longer video of course)
@@InnuendoStudioshonestly, short videos are more impressive, and easier to share & reference.
I do absolutely love me them longer videos to pieces, especially when they're magically high quality, but they tend to give me enough time to process the topic as the video is playing. Really short messages just hit you, and you have to digest it afterwards for a bit. Thus more impressive. On top of the "it's tough to boil it down to so few words" angle.
I've had this experience many times, both online and in meat space. When I was a kid it was always the same approach; one member of a clique that had been verbally abusing me for weeks would feign a desire for friendship only to immediately laugh at me when I was excited. Turns out they laugh if you express suspicion by asking if they're serious, too. That happened the second time. Third time I got mad and screamed at them in the middle of the cafeteria. I was punished for causing a disruption, and was too distraught in the councilors office to explain myself. Lady sorta just sat there for an hour while I sobbed my heart out x.x no one understood why I'd scream at someone asking to be friends, but I'd been burnt twice already.
After that, people who approached me at all got glared at. The ones who tried anyway got ignored and I'd try to leave. There were a few situations where I hit someone.
By the time I got online, I already had a deep distrust of anyone suddenly switching gears like that.
that's terribly sad, i'm so sorry :(
I've had people try it with me, but the niceness doesn't ever work. I hold grudge against people who wronged me. When they start trying to get buddy buddy with me, that's when I start to turn it against them. "Good to know you're smiling, I'm going to fuck you up."
It's weasel tactics because they can't beat you. These types make me think of Stalin who said something close to, "the guilty deserve punishment and the innocent deserve it even more."
And then older generations mock Gen Z for their mental health issues. I hate people so much
I still remember the time when I was volunteering at a women’s health clinic and one of our protesters asked me to meet him for coffee so we could “talk it out.” Go figure I was the only person in my escort group that he offered this to. Go figure I was also the only man in my group.
To everyone saying "please don't have week-long exchanges with far-right people on the internet," *yes.* That's the point of the whole show, I think. Ian explains why the "arguments" of the far-right are never actually _arguments_ but instead recruitment techniques. The series, as I read it, is (also!) intented to demonstrate this fact and then go through the implications (i.e. the solution is deplatforming, not debating, like Ian has said multiple times).
It's hard for a moderate liberal to understand how this _isn't_ censorship, but us lefties can only hope Ian has done enough of a good job to actually make them. And I definitely think he already did, and is still doing precisely that! Thank you again for your wonderfully invaluable work, Mr. Danskin.
If I, as a person or as a member of an organization, choose not to let someone have their say, that is not cenorship. If the government (the organization with the monopoly on use of force) decides for me, THAT is censorship.
On the other hand, not all speech should be protected. Some actually should be censored.
Except that the same arguments get made about the left all the time. Like the harsh response people on the left have to homophobes/transphobes combined with the "love-bombing" which publicly LGBT people get from the left being described as a recruitment/grooming tactic, especially when presented to children. These arguments are already used to deplatform the left.
These arguments defeat the purpose of progress, because they go both ways (even if you disagree with how valid the argument is in any given way) and just serve to divide. Assuming *some* level of sincerity and trying to figure out where people you disagree with are coming from is essential if we want to resolve these issues.
@@WouldbeSage That ignores that corporations are also large scale powerful organizations nearing the power of governments though, no? I get the argument that it's useful or even important to do, but downplaying corporate power is bad imo.
Remember... ANYONE can be labelled "Alt-Right". And when they are, discussion is *over*. If you can't label them directly, using terms like "alt-right adjacent" should suffice. If an argument seems more nuanced DO NOT ENGAGE. Instead, go into their profiles and fish up something to show their bias on an issue and then call them the liar that they are! And if their profile *doesn't* allow you to view them, CALL THEM OUT ON THAT TOO. No one is above being labelled an enemy. Use the tips Innuendo has given you, use the terms indiscriminately, and disengage if the debate has too much "info-dumping". Remember, we are here to WIN the argument, the priority for truth comes later. There are no wrong tactics when facing the "Alt-Right", only wrong targets. Find your allies, and align to their sentiments (it doesn't matter what they are, you are on the same team) and make sure to enact the 'social consequences' on anyone being a sympathizer or worse!
Invaluable work indeed, Mr. Studios.
The report button exists. Don't engage, report. Leave a separate comment encouraging people to report (but DON'T include their username: that would in itself be harassment). If enough people report, their comment will be removed and they will receive a warning. If this happens multiple times, they will lose the ability to comment. At least on youtube, that's how it works. Please please please use the report feature to deal with bigots. This is the right thing to do not only because there is usually no way to convince bigots that their position is incorrect, but also because people directly affected by the bigotry can be harmed by seeing it: even if it is directed at someone else. It's hard to feel safe as an lgbtq person if there are homophobic things being said: even if nobody knows I'm lgbtq and the comments aren't directed at me. I'm sure the same applies to Jews, Black people, etc. So getting youtube to just delete these kinds of comments is better all around.
this is EXTREMELY common in cults as well. STRONGLY recommend looking into breakdowns of destructive cult and high-control group techniques from experts such as Steven Hassan and Janja Lalich, and in particular the well-documented groups such as Scientology and NXIVM. They do this shit in SPADES, and hearing former members/escapees tell their stories is incredibly helpful for others to be able to identify and counter this sort of thing.
one of the more painful things......... is that it can take years to decades to retrain, even if your part of the more mainstream cults like Mormonism and get out. i've been exmormon for 6 years, and i still have arguments in my head about things said back then, still trying to seek approval from those i now see as reprehensible in my head. it's even worse when you now have to think to yourself "do i want to be around family because i think i can be a positive influence on them, or am i still seeking their approval?" at the end of the day, i've realized that no, i can't do for them what was done for me, and no, i am not seeking their approval, there trying to bribe me with food since i'm on a fixed income."
I've experienced that kind of affect-reversal before, where someone previously very hostile suddenly starts treating me like I'm a reasonable person "not like the rest of them", but that has always struck me as a recruiting opportunity in the other direction: now they have me an an example of one of "them" who isn't so bad and now maybe that can be an in for them to come around and stop being wrong about everything now that they like at least one of 'us'. And sometimes it does work out that way, and someone gets set on the path toward deradicalization (or… de-reactionary-ization?) But then other times after seeming to have started coming around for a while they just suddenly get hostile again. And it hadn't occurred to me that they might have only been feigning civility to try to get me to come to their side; now the sudden return to hostility makes me think they just got frustrated that that tactic wasn't working.
"You've been having an argument with a reactionary for weeks."
Cannot relate as someone who knows what the block button is and isn't afraid to use it.
I'm autistic and I really struggle with just dropping a topic, and it took me years of arguing with biggots to learn to stop having unproductive conversations. I still end up doing them sometimes even now just a lot less and generally in less hopeless conversations.
Something that you can do easily might have to be learned by others or require extra effort. And doing conscious effort like that is difficult when upset so that's why the initial offensive hook actually works cause it can hurt critical thinking.
Well, yeah. It's a catered technique meant for the kind of person who WOULD spend multiple days of their life on a social media fist fight. You know, bored, lonely, willing to give jerks way more grace than they deserve out of a misguided sense of empathy, and maybe a little preachy? That kind of person is very vulnerable to this sort of manipulation.
And also me up until about six months ago, lol.
Comrade 🤝🤝🤝
I've had arguments with people online that have spilled over into the second day, but *weeks?* What could you possibly have to say at that point?
@@Laezar1yeah, ik what you mean, i was still doing this into my mid-20s :/ took me aaaaages to finally recognize these conversations for what they are and find the self-control to block the other party immediately.
Great vid. I hate that there are strategies like this built around the assumption that most people are kind, because YES most people are kind, and it's so easy to fall for something like this if you're arguing in good faith and tend to assume the other person is, too.
Had a man do that to me once... I was mentally unwell and 27 years his junior. Once I finally got away (this summer) I've dealt with harassment, threats of harm, and stalking of both myself and my family.... and yes, legal action has been taken for my own safety.
ANYONE who does these kinds of things, regardless if it's out of political recruitment, romantic interest, etc. IS BAD. NEWS. BEARS. Get out immediately, run far away and don't look back. It's not worth it
don't sleep with old men, kids
Despite being short, they are very hard hitting.
I remember this Happening to me when i was in middle school when gamer gate was happening.
"You aren't *like* the other girls I argue with..."
I remember hearing the term gamer gate before.
I had no interest in looking into what the hell that was.
I just play video games.
This is only tangentially related, but as a Jew, I find the current state of politics in Israel very unnerving, given that it is bordering on theocracy. The majority right-wing coalition can only keep power with the aid of the ultra-orthodox, meaning that the ultra-orthodox get to add a bunch of restrictions in that the coalition will put into place. There’s more, but my point here is that as a part of a minority group that has suffered under theocracies for centuries, finally getting a country as a safe haven only to have that safe haven start going down the road of theocracy is… unsettling.
Seeing super-conservative Christians use Israel as a political prop they approve of, both as a model for a “religious ethnostate” and as a place to send Jews so we can start the Rapture (yes many actually believe that) is not just unnerving or unsettling - it’s downright terrifying.
Tbh i can't really imagine what it'd be like to have a nation out there you may have never even been to that says it represents you but then turns around and does so much evil and then acts like you're against your own skin if you disagree. And then to boot, people actually often believe that bs.
Hope things will get better
@@TeleportRush It's weird. I've seen people who aren't particularly religious, but are ethnically Jewish, talk about how Israel is necessary in case the pogroms start up again. There's a certain kind of sort of understandable paranoia at work.
Kinda like "never again" didn't mean "never again will there be a genocide", because obviously not, but "never again will we be a minority everywhere we live".
I get the sense that the doves took their shot in 2000, and the consensus in Israel is that the Palestinians will never accept anything less than moving into Israel and maybe doing awful things to the Israelis there.
I don't know how to solve any of that, of course.
The weird thing is most of majority is supposedly pro-Israel? Republicans spew out they hate anything "globalist" ( another dog whistle word for Jew) the vast majority; they probably really do Jews because they're known to wave swastika flags in Florida. More mind games from the GOP basically.
@@adambuchbinder2791 I believe that Israel is necessary as a place of refuge for Jews fleeing oppression where we will not be persecuted by the government. However, just because I believe Israel has a right to exist doesn’t mean that I condone, approve, or stand by the actions is the Israeli government. Now especially, but also previously, I believe Israel’s policy towards the Palestinian Territories is harsh at best and indefensibly cruel at worst. The idea that we, a people who have spent centuries in exile under oppressive conditions, suffering in progroms, being blamed, burned, and buried, and eventually being systematically rounded up and exterminated, that we could do this now is terrible. While obviously the average Israeli citizen doesn’t feel this way, the current government under Netanyahu (a man who refused a ceasefire in 2021 and got more Israelis killed and who has actively allowed Hamas to grow so as to keep the Israelis afraid to work for peace) is attacking the Gaza territory with what can only be described as genocidal intent. They are taking this as an opportunity to turn the oppression we Jews have experienced on others, bombing not just Hamas but civilian refugee camps.
I support Israel’s right to exist as a refuge for Jews fleeing oppression. However, modern-day Israel is not that. Until they can get a government which does not view oppression as justifiable, if not *righteous,* I cannot stand by Israel.
It saddens me to say this. I stood by Israel previously, warts and all, and even when the fighting started. However, as it became clearer that Israel was not fighting a war war with Hamas but with the entire population of Palestine, I can no longer stand by it.
I believe in Israel. I simply cannot support the current Israel.
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ There's more than enough blame to go around, but I sometimes wonder about the alternate history where Arafat made the deal in 2000. He probably would have ended up like Sadat and Rabin, but the conflict could, maybe, finally, have ended.
I know you want to change their mind - and - I know it's painful to watch them spread their lies - and - I know you're intelligent and have a good heart - but - if you're thinking about engaging with them _DON'T._
Or, if you're going to, argue entirely in good faith with data and facts to at least people who come along later can see those too
@@Dysiode very occasionally I will choose to say exactly one thing, then mute or block them, and say it entirely for other people who might stumble upon it rather than the person directly.
@@Dysiode The problem is, you're both aiming for separate goals. Your goal by arguing in good faith and with facts is to try and win people over who are on the fence, and maybe get one or two people on the other side of the fence to hop sides, but their goal is to work the crowd in a way that makes that basically impossible. They achieve a position of advantage when fence sitters enter the scene, because they're looking to bypass logic all together and engage with their emotions, and to shape how the conversation looks from the fence sitter PoV in order to make that more effective. They want to control the flow of conversation and drag you far, far away from your original point, both so that your original point gets diluted as just one point in a sea of points, and also because they know many fence sitters will become overloaded and just check out completely, at which point they'll stop checking your sources.
From that point on, they're hoping fence sitters either leave, or start engaging with the fact that your opponent is always on the offensive, while you're always on the defensive reacting to them. If fence sitters leave the conversation, that's a win condition for your opponent, because some of those fence sitters are now going to believe that the situation is extremely complex, with points in both camps, and if they stick around and pick up on the tone and flow of the conversation, that also becomes a win condition for your opponent, because now they're engaging more with emotions than logic, and facts won't matter nearly as much to them any more.
If you're going to argue, your best bet is to ignore their bait and just hammer your position. When your opponent attempts to drag you away, call them out, reiterate your position, and ask them if they're conceding that they have no argument against your position. Give them those 2 options over and over again: either stay on subject or admit your loss. You shouldn't approach it like a good faith debate, where you should give your opponent respect and explore their points. In a debate, there's a give and take, but here, they're trying to trick you into only ever giving ground, while they constantly take it. If you're in the right, and you have the facts to prove it, you should just fortify your hill and make them come to you instead; there's no reason to leave it just so they can get you to wallow in the muddy open field they want you to be in.
Oh yes, absolutely! I say "argue in good faith" from my own perspective, i.e. that I'm not trying to troll them or fight them but clearly convey my point. It's very much a practiced skill to redirect their meandering when they lose each of their positions.
Thanks for clarifying all that! I do think "identify and walk away" is the best position to have if you're not prepared to engage with these people @@jamesruth100
@@Dysiode no, you're wrong. Fucking pay attention. That doesn't work, it has never worked, and it will never work. Being right doesn't actually matter. If it mattered, we'd have won already. Don't even bother telling the truth - they're making up everything they say out of thin air and we should even the playing field.
I really appreciate these shorter videos. Not just because I'm a pretty strong believer in the "set a page limit, otherwise you're going to lose the plot" tactic for planning out a story/essay/etc, but because this makes it a lot easier to get the crucial information out to the people most in need.
Loving the "short and to the point" Alt-Right Playbooks! It's like the original pitch of the series is finally being actualized. Some of my favorite UA-cam videos EVER are the very long, explanation-heavy entries on the series, but these recent ones are also very _useful_ to navigate the more specific arguments of internet right-wing discourse.
Probably because they are using AI now apparently.
Ian says something short, quippy, and *right*
Omg I have been in this situation a few times! Especially between 2015-2016, when I was more online. I had no idea why this stranger was suddenly being cool with me (maybe I said something that resonated with them?) but being picked on by other girls in elementary school taught me to not let down my guard just because they suddenly decided to be nice one day.
God yes.
I feel like there is a venn diagram here of overlapping "things that people do naturally" and "human behaviors that people exploit." Communicate with someone long enough and there is a chance that they'll start to see you more as a person than as the caricature they have in their mind of people like you. Caricaturisation is a big root in this issue-an unwillingness to see a group of people as people because it is convenient in some way. So if they are starting to shatter that caricature in their mind by interacting with you, this can be a good first step towards de-radicalization. But you are right that it could also be a tactic of manipulation, so you still need to be careful and aware. But also be careful of doing your own caricaturising.
This implies that this is like, intentional and targeted. Which I'm sure occasionally it is but, like with abusers... I think most of the time they don't even know they're doing it. There's a kind of camraderie in having fought somebody for so long that you're almost familiar with them. They became part of your in-group, in a weird way. I doubt many online weirdos sit down and have like a planned out week of how to do this, they just... eventually treat you with familiarity because they're literally familiar with you.
I think the "they don't know they are doing it" part is giving them too much credit.
9 times out of 10 these alt-right folks are the same people listening to Andrew tate and the like who are telling them to do these things to women (and to a certain degree it works because psychology), and they are just expanding it to every interpersonal relationship they have.
I mean ... you still shouldn't fall for it ... ?
@@willguggn2 oh agreed 100%
I've never really seen someone mention this manipulative tactic in this context, but it's nice to see I'm not alone in noticing this.
I don’t know how I would feel having an insult thrown at me that I’ve never heard before. Like if you’re someone who gets into heated conversations a lot and is insulted a lot how do you react to insults you have never heard before? Do you feel, idk, impressed almost? Like “wow, that’s a new one.”
HIt back harder lol
I always find those funny. It's like trying to insult me by a metric that I'm not even insulted by. Why should I find you anything other than ridiculous if you try this on me?
You add that one to the library.
Which library?
You get to choose which one.
When people try to insult me by stating "furry" I'm always a bit amazed for the opposite reason
this whole series could potentially do a lot of good on tiktok. i know you've talked about having adhd so a huge project might not be doable, but revisiting the concepts and cutting them into smaller chunks would really help people deprogram themselves. thanks for keeping the series updated
Whenever I've had massive, long term debates with rightoids, they basically never complimented me. They usually break down and confess how depressed they are to me and how they don't want to be alive. Has this ever happened to anyone else? Right wingers realizing you're a potential shoulder to cry on and falling apart emotionally?
It's never happened to me in this same context, but similarly to love-bombing, it's a technique that abusers use. I've had exes do it to me before. The goal is to make you feel morally guilty and like you need to support them, use your support to manipulate you into (intentionally or not) accepting their bad behavior, and normalizing it so that they can do it again until eventually you aren't sure what a normal relationship (or in this case, argument) should even look like. I'm sure there's a technical name for it, but I don't know what it is, so if somebody does know that'd be great!
@@everettw.9610 I'll be honest, back when I used to do this, I was an ass and would twist the knife on them. Like they'd confess they hate themselves and I'd usually respond with, "Well, that's one thing we have in common. We both hate you."
Something similar. Ultimately it comes down to the fact they are hurting or have been hurt. They aren't happy people for a mirad of reasons beyond their control.
I usually give my sympathy, but not my respect. You don't have the right to be a shitty person because people were shitty to you.
@@TheRatSquid That... really disturbs me. Isn't there a chance they're *actually* having a breakdown? If you've both been conversing for a while and insulting each other, maybe you've accidentally (and possibly unavoidably) been negging *them*, provoking the breakdown? Not everything is a trick...
Am I just crazy here? Naive?
Yeah, it's weird how many fall back on anti-natalism as their last-resort argument. Like, the argument that life is pain and people are better off not existing. They truly feel that way, and cope by assuming everyone else is like that too.
The end of the video is a bit abrupt. It felt like it cut just when I thought the main part was going to start
I feel he's sort of doinig that on purpose to avoid rambling (or having to spend months on each video); the demonstrative intros are the most iconic and, in some ways, informative parts of the video, so he thinks he can cut them down to this.
@@ansongordon-creed4047Also, not every video needs a meditation on how evil the process is. It can just be “here’s a part of this that I haven’t mentioned yet”.
This way of ending vids is really neat, because unlike other content, I cant turn off my brain and just go to the next video to feed my addiction, he got my interest and planted an idea in my head that I have think about now, consider how it might affect me.
What if I have affected people around me that way unintentionally?
It is a little unsatisfying but I think it does precisely what it's out to do
I agree with the OP. I'm not personally familiar with people behaving this way, so I was ready to hear about what this particular rabbit hole entails.
Marvellous, as usual. Thanks again for this series, it always helps this little unknown Latin-American middle and high school teacher.
Please consider doing a video on political party gaslighting for example for decades the republicans were saying they weren’t trying to overturn roe vs wade but they were
I think that'd fall under The Slow Break-Up video.
Do we need a video about Republicans lying?
Or the Democrats with their promises
I just think those were two different groups of people. There have been those who didn't care so much that have had power in the right for decades, and then those who have been trying to get it overturned for decades who only recently gained the power to make it happen.
Heck yeah, new Innuendo Studios video drops
Edit: that was a quickie
Love this series.
"Outer layer of the onion" Sweet callback.
Wow, I was settling in for a four hour long video, but you made the point and made it well under 3 minutes.
Wow, I was just (re)watching some of your older videos while drawing. I did not expect a new video to come out. It's a great day to be sure.
happened to me. this tactic is extremely sinister. and it can work. i never got any further than the first layer, but i can imagine that this was only due to luck. when i realized that i was trans, i had to leave that community for obvious reasons, but had i never realized such i may have been pulled in. your videos are borderline prophetic and you deserve more praise than i'm sure you receive.
Huh, I always just end the argument there when they seem to have decided to have a reasonable thought. Glad to know I've more or less avoided any prolonged interaction with those people
I'm just curious where you found reasonable dialog on the internet? Asking for a friend.
@@BuildinWings They're referring to the "love-bombing" part mentioned in the video. It's not unique to a certain area on the internet.
It's because, at least within Evangelical circles, they think the existence of a literal state of Israel is a necessary prerequisite for the Second Coming. (And yes, specifically Evangelicals, as opposed to conservative Christianity more broadly)
@@MichaelAronsonIt's not unique to anything. You could for example use this same play for a conversation between a doctor and an alchoholic. The doctor is initially beligerant and says "you're an idiot, you're destroying your body, you're being awful to your family" etc with the insults. If the alchoholic doesn't immediately stop listening, the doctor sees potential and says "you don't want to end up like THEM" in reference to people that get liver failure or beat their kids. It follows the same playbook but I struggle to even see it as grooming because it's such a ubiquitous conversation pattern.
@@Zadamanim The difference here being that "they" are not a nebulous, vague Other. They're a specific group (people who suffer acute symptoms of alcoholism), whom the alcoholic is part of or could easily join the ranks of. This isn't love-bombing, it's a callout. The important part isn't the speech pattern itself, but where it's being used.
I absolutely hate this type of argument in the alt right, because not only is it sinister with the implications, namely that there could have been a chance you changed someones mind on said issue or subject. but in addition, it subverts the idea that the people you are arguing with (for whatever reason) are even more morally correct, smarter, and somehow gaslighting you into thinking that you may be wrong with information that has backing by schollars, scientests, and years of dedicated research.
absolutely fantastic video, thank you.
I remember something similar happened to me around the time the term "alt-right" came around, but no one really knew what it was...
I knew enough about it to know that I wanted nothing to do with it...
I forgot what we were arguing about, but eventually this person said something to the effect of: "I used to be like you, a smart, white, liberal, and college educated. You would make a great alt-right thinker"
I wasn't interested... I'm not sure why they assumed I was college educated because I'm certain my education never came up during the conversation...
But they also assumed I'm white, which I'm certainly not...
Never thought of it as grooming before, but that’s exactly what it is. An abusive person trying to convince someone that it’s ok to abuse them.
Wait... what??? I put this on to walk my dog, secure in the idea of a 40-minute insight into the tactics of evil. Two and a half goddamn minutes?? No new video for months, followed by what could be a friggin SHORT??
😂 Thanks for the content! Sorry for rudely wanting more. 😅
who needs to make content when you get monthly patreon subscriptions :shrug:
As someone who lives in Israel:
A) Even here people debate on rather or not this is a religious country or what that means.
B) It's a terrible way to run a country and ethnic nationalism sucks.
Yep. This is the method. I see this like 4 times a year. I've seen it happen to entire, non-political, discord servers. There are groups more vulnerable to this than others - classic car discords, old school roleplaying discords, boomer meme discords, recipe sharing discords, christian discords. It's very common. It's sickeningly obvious.
I'll be honest, the idea of having a weeks-long debate/argument with anyone on social media feels like a living nightmare to me, regardless of what it's about.
Much love and Appreciation, Ian! Stay sane out here.
Stop getting into personal battles with people that you have no actual personal connection with.
On a related note, insults from people I have little respect for are meaningless.
imagine been so needy for attention that you start to seek the approval of a person who has been consistently insulting you for an extended period of time
Yeah, I was going to say, "He's trying to condition you."
Exactly. And you should never fall for it!
Every rightwing accusation is a confession.
The good old format. The good old clarity. The good old outro music. But all in 2.30. LOVE IT. Thanks for the quick hit.
This technique has never worked on me. I’m too petty and vindictive for this to ever work on me. It’s odd that this character flaw of mine would make me immune to something like this, lol
Forgivefulness can be a double edged sword, for sure.
When the conflict Israel-HAMAS heated up lately i was curious about how the right was going to react. And for me was a divide, who do the right hate the most? Jews or muslims? Seems muslims to me so far.
If anything, because the evangelical Christian inner core believes that Jews must control Jerusalem for the Rapture to happen
And also colorism (the stereotypical Muslim being darker than the stereotypical Jew)
Because they can ally with the Christian zionists, who are on their side politically.
It is always the browner, less affiliated with/beholden to the US party they hate most.
It’s a uniquely only in America thing that there are neo-Nazis that are pro Israel. Many of them tend to be on the far end of Christianity and believe Israel must exist for the rapture to happen. They also admire Israel’s stated policy of maintaining a majority needy h population at any cost-creating an ethno-state is their wet dream.
Most western white conservative gentiles are antisemitic to some degree. However, all but the most antisemitic ones - like David Duke - love highly militarised, europeanised coloniser ethnostates, and hate Muslims and Arabs, more than they hate Jews. So supporting Israel is a no-brainer for most of them. As Ian said, Israel represents everything they want in their own societies, and also means that if they stop wanting to tolerate Jews in their own soceities, they can just go to Israel instead. And of course, pragmatically Israel is also extremely useful for Euro-American hegemony in the Middle East.
i always love these smaller alt right play book videos, its like bite-sized leftism to consume just before work
I love these short, straight-to-the-point videos. I loved your longer ones too, don't get me wrong, your stuff is _excellent,_ but this was a perfect distillation of the subject matter and I love it for that. And for getting the word out! :D
Thx for keeping this series up.
Short, but exceptionally sweet. Yes, having this kind of an experience should be a BLASTING red flag. Do NOT fall for this. The number 1 rule of any interaction online, something that should have been ingrained into us when we were young, but which we were deprived of due to the systems we live in being senile and calcified, is to _know when to disengage._
I love how concise this is. I was expecting a 20 minute meandering essay but you got the point across in an order of magnitude less time. So much makes sense now.
I think UA-cam made it so 20 minute videos were like the most profitable, so we see a lot of those.
But TikTok (and UA-cam shorts) waste like 30 seconds, showing people have a draw to those.
It's best when they're just as long as they need to be, without worry about the algorithm and monetization....
Babe, new Alt-Right Playbook just dropped 👀
Loved the long-form content but it's refreshing to see the return to short stuff
Happened in a subreddit the other day. Someone was poking fun at people who call their romantic partners, well, "partner." They didn't understand why people did that. I suggested that maybe they let people call their significant others whatever they want, and they turned around and started calling me clown and acting like I was embarrassed to call my partner as such.
For a brief moment my lizard brain wanted to knee-jerk react to prove them wrong, but after stepping away and coming back I realized they just don't like opposing opinions and would rather neg me into falling in line with their beliefs instead of leaving people to their own peace.
If your partner is female she's your wife or girlfriend. If your partner is male, he's your husband or boyfriend. And yes, your PaRtNeR is one of those two. Stop using dishonest language.
@@Apeiron242 What is dishonest about the language? Please educate me
@@Apeiron242 My partner is cis but I'm gonna call them my partner and refuse to tell you what their gender is just to piss you off
@@Apeiron242cry harder
@@Apeiron242I: Lol, are you the arguing person from that subreddit? Pitiful
I dealt with a guy similar to this on UA-cam over his name ("Marxismisacancerousreligion"), beforehand; he started out by raging and chucking homophobic slurs at me until he started to patronise about how he was "trying to help me", referring to me as a "kid".
Fortunately, after I firmly stated that I saw through his charade & bs, he then began slurring again.
Anyways, I've stopped speaking with him, for now atleast.
The funny thing is, pitting people against others of their group is a tactic that we can use on the left. When arguing with moderate right people we can subtly say something like "at least you're not like those MAGA Trumpists" and they'll open up to you.
I think a weakness of the rights playbook that we don't exploit is the inherent element of self betrayal built into the ideology. They often revolve around a very "US vs them" mentality, but when you ask the specifics you can see the cracks.
For example, a lot of the right relies on moral puritanism when it comes to their nonsense. But if you ask what that looks like and which of them is the closest adherent then they'll start bickering. Point out the fundamental breaks in ideology (White supremacy and light skin Latinos for example) can definitely help break up their advantage of a unified voice.
I don't think we can. Neo-conservativism as devolved into being about destroying the enemy, which is very much in line with its cultural heritage of glorifying the nation, villifying its enemies, keeping law and order, whatever it takes sort of mindset, often throwing human lives at the problem and hailing self-sacrifice as honorable. See: mass shooters and their manifestos of "doing what needs to be done" by targeting brown/black/asian/queer people. Leftists are usually about figuring what the problem is and then actually present solutions on how to fix them, even if it involves dragging the regressives kicking and screaming into a better world. Or wait for their bitter arse to die off. The issue is a lack in unity, a belief from moderates in "across the aisle" deals, and a lack of action outside a system that's designed better to halt social progress than to promote it.
Oh man. I didn't even think of that... I'm not sure how actually effective it might be considering they're not actually coming at it in good faith, but on the other hand the entire conservative platform is built on playing to people's insecurities so... The other issue is I don't want to spend the energy trying to recruit people beyond the bounds of the argument itself since I don't actually like those people to begin with
Identity politics. Jonathan Haidt talks about it. There are two types. One is good and the other is bad. He talks about how the identity politics are organised. In summary:
1. Emphasize what you have in common.
2. Band together against a common enemy.
I am a leftist, and when I listened to what he said it really made sense. It is something that has been really bugging me lately about the left. It has changed since the 90's when I was younger.
The left I am noticing are using the 2nd one more. Banding together against a common enemy rather than emphasizing what we have in common.
Me: I am getting disillusioned with the left. This whole Palestine/Israeli situation has only heightened that. 😞
@Dysiode The idea, at least in theory, is to prematurely have them begin turning on themselves. They're own rhetoric can easily dissolution the minority of the group leaving them open to a more nuanced and "liberal" mindset. The issue with a lot of conservatives is it requires a degree of direct impact before they see a certian issue.
A white supremacists group says that whites are inherently superior? Ask which kind of white person is the most superior. Irish? Italian? British? Spanish? Eastern European?
They're trying to justify something like Israel's brutality of Gazan citizens? Get them engrossed in a thought experiment that's more personal for them (like perhaps state vs state)
They say Christianity should be our only faith? Ask which denomination.
They love to go for identity politics. So find those cracks and point out the differences in opinion They're bound to have.
Never stop these videos
This is why I insulate myself with the Book of Grudges and will accept nothing less than complete submission of those who have ever slighted me.
Though it's impressive that you can fit as much information as you did in under 3 minutes, I can't help but wish we had a longer new video. Love your stuff!
Thank you for putting this video out there, it needs to be seen!
As much as I appreciate the digestible size of these recent videos, this one feels incomplete. What do "negging" and "love-bombing" actually mean? And if I see someone trying to pull this, what's the best response?
Negging ("to neg", meaning "negative feedback") is an act of emotional manipulation whereby a person makes a deliberate backhanded compliment or otherwise flirtatious remark to another person to undermine their confidence and attempt to engender in them a need for the manipulator's approval
This refers to the first half of constantly berating a person to make them question their own self esteem
Love bombing is an attempt to influence a person by demonstrations of attention and affection.
This is the latter half, where they are nice to you while making it seem like you are now different from the group you actually belong so you will seek belonging from the abuser
If they're just responding to you, drop the thread like it's radioactive. "Don't pretend to be nice! Piss off! I'm done with you." If they're responding to someone else, warn the would-be victim about the tactic.
The fear in your voice is delicious.
So well said. You put into words what I couldn't express.
Thanks for continuing this series. Shorter videos are fine.
I always worry I might accidentally employ some version of this. I like to heap praise on people when they do things that are praiseworthy (you did a good job at that task, for example). I also like to attack negative self-talk, and counter it with positive statements.
My hope is that, because I don’t want the other person to do something for me or to feel differently about me, it’s not awful. But I always worry.
Anyway I love these. Great video.
I had a similar "do I do this?" scare too, because sometimes I come on really strong and then back off once I realize I'm being a dick. I'm not intentionally manipulating people; I just don't hit my internal "chill out, dude" button as fast as I'd like (I'm working on it).
But that doesn't mean I haven't accidentally manipulated people via my lack of social grace, you know? Repeated aggression followed by calm affability is an emotional abuse tactic, and I have a responsibility to make sure it doesn't become that.
Meanwhile, praise absolutely is a manipulation tactic. Like, that's what it's for: you give it to someone when they behave a certain way in the hopes that they'll behave like that more often. But not all manipulation is evil, you know? We call positive manipulation "teaching." So long as you're not treating people like puppies and using your powers for good, you should be fine. Most people like a little praise every now and then, so giving it to them is nice.
To me this sounds like "coach talk" , or tough love, because I think we're just so used to accepting that comment sections are hostile lol.
I think a lot of this can be dissolved by asking questions first instead of assuming what they meant.
I don't have be curious about someone who says "kill all *blank*", but I would raise some questions to someone who unironically says stuff like,"why should I support X when they don't Y "
But this is the Internet, where inflection and tone does not exist, so really hedging our bets, choose your battles lol
@@n.l.g.6401 For sure. I hope that by keeping myself at least a little worried about it, I can catch myself if I start to slip up, too. It's hard to notice something you never think of, you know?
@@austincde I worry I do it in other places! In comment sections, I try to just... Uh... Not engage with people who aren't engaging in good faith. And I try to be very neutral in comments. I don't like insulting people at all (unless it's in good fun with friends).
@@Omnicloud7strife oh I see! you cant control how others feel about you, that's is such a common fear. but if you value a person who says they felt bad because you did or said XYZ , then you'll check yourself or at least you'll check in on them, maybe?
I worry about a lot of my actions too but I make sure to at least keep my mind open if they say something, my ego is not worth the other person being hurt cuz idk what they going thru
I watched this being like "Wait you feel good about them no longer including you in the group you do belong to that they're insulting? Like in what world does that not feel even more insulting?"
Then I realized that in my experience this tactic has mostly been pulled out by misogynists trying to get away with saying misogynistic things, and I think it doesn't really work with core identity groups. The rhetorical separation from the group becomes an insult in itself - something like a mild misgendering.
I debate all the time and this has never happened to me, but then again I'm as left-wing as it gets and I am fundamentally against discrimination, so any right-winger will probably never see me as someone they can recruit. I am "Them" to them.
I'm proud of that.
How is generalizing and hating the right not discrimination?
@@hagoryopi2101 My message didn't imply or say that I'm discriminating anyone. I just said that what the video says has never happened to me.
Everyone should have the same rights and opportunities, I also don't hate/dislike anyone unless they are bigots. You should never tolerate intolerance, but that's another topic.
@@hagoryopi2101 It is discrimination, but so what? Unlike real bigotry, your imagined kind is based on a changeable fact (the right having reprihensible ideas)
do people really believe there is a 'recruiting' effort? this is so paranoid
there's no way... you baffle me every time, Innuendo Studios. I learn so much every time
I am being groomed into wanting longer videos because you have such good things to say
Okay I'm sorry. I really do love your videos and you do good work. I'll watch every 2 minute video that you throw out there. Thanks for being awesome!
A shortie but a goodie, thank you for this Halloween installment.
Literally all these discourse problems stop if you delete Twitter. Life becomes immeasurably better.
But then you still got UA-cam comments
So... Where's the block button for neighbors, smartass?
@@tamarbeker1701 sure, but you can use UA-cam without ever reading anything written in the comments section. Reading the comments is basically all Twitter is lol
I don't have Twitter but they're on Facebook
@@ianm1462 ... Yeah, that's probably just an ADHD thing. When I'm watching a video I have to read either the comments or the recommendations while I do
Always great to see new videos in this series and any other topics you wanna discuss.
Maybe a new format could be dropping a few of these smaller clips leading up to the full video where you put all the ideas together.
Thank you for another short but sweet video. These are very informative on the tactics of the alt right and right populists in geneeal.
The fact that you would keep talking to this person day after day and week after week is letting them know that you're weak minded.
Our mom might be attempting to do this to us, it would explain why she acts like an ass but then randomly does kind things for what would seem to be no reason, though this pattern, being a pattern, has made us always skeptical of whether her kindness is genuine or a tactic, and in the end causes us to not feel very different than we already did, if at all.
This UA-cam series is always interesting, hope to see more videos come out
I am glad this series is back !
Oh God I see you've met my neighbour. It's very upsetting to have happen irl as well.
Oh wow that's not at all like how the military breaks down and builds up recruits, is it. /s
This reminds me exactly of that one part of Fight Club, where they start recruiting people, and do so by having them stand outside the house, at attention, for about a week's time. They insult them, talk shit about them, and tell them they're never getting in until after the per-requisite time happens.
I will always watch and support your work
I'm feeling a tad called out because I've been doing almost exactly this to right wing people for a few years now. I recognized that many people on the far right don't respect you until you insult them, so if I identify that they are that sort of insult-brained far righter I throw the gauntlet and then allow themselves to build distance with an implied further right person, then I play up populist opinions and try a pro-union or anti-corporate angle, or try to agree about badmouthing big pharma/insurance to try and ease them towards universal healthcare.
It's a skill! I think it's important to call out that it can be used "for good" but also that if you're not practiced in it and have good defense mechanism you run the risk of making things worse or getting taken yourself. But, it is a fun game to play and I think having a record of the exchange can help people to stumble on it later.
@@Dysiode yeah, know when you are being finessed and finesse others responsibly.
I used to be on a website that was being taken over by the far right, and I'd get into arguments with them pretty often. None of them ever tried to recruit me, but they definitely tried it on other people.
I am such a dumbass that I thought these people were just being genuine lmao. I never changed positions because of it but jfc that's nefarious.
if they know better than to try, you're probably doing pretty good
@@Africa893 Oh I'm infamous within extremely niche internet circles. Getting recognised is weird.
I'm in a similar boat with an old site I used to browse. It started off just generally about gaming and memes of niche subcultures, but grew a right-leaning slant during the whole gamergate years and especially when Trump was running, to the point I realized "oh God I really do not align with these people now." For the longest time I would dispute most far right garbage that they would spew and try to keep at least some semblance of reality and empathy on the site, and there usually would be people receptive to it. But the problem was it was ultimately a losing battle, the site just grew more and more awful no matter how much I tried to filter it out, and hit a point where they graduated from dogwhistles to bullhorns. Despite everything on that site that was growing worse, the final nail in the coffin was people beginning to advocate for outright abusive behaviors towards LGBTQ teenagers, and I realized there was no hope left for it. It took years actually filtering out a lot of the latent shit that community left upon me, because it's almost impossible to spend as much time as I did on that site without at least some of it rubbing off on you.
Finally one that I knew about before I watched. This just shows that you are talking about real stuff.
Agree 100%. I'd love to see more of your long form content on this subject
my favourite way to handle this is to inform the individual that the other lefties - the ones they don't like - are in fact good people too. I like to advocate for my fellows whenever people using this technique try to criticise them. A common one is a complaint about the highly emotional rhetoric which I'll respond to by saying simply that those emotions are justified and it's unreasonable to expect us to not express them. It can be quite fun seeing them get desperate to make me disown the people that I want to protect.
Propaganda and these social-engineering tools have become increasingly clever lately. My favourite one so far is: "A picture-in-picture video shows a Joe Everyman reacting with calm approval to an uninformed opinion or assertion made by a charming and politically-alternative [read: fascist, neocon, neolib, etc] well-dressed man delivering his message in a cool but passionate tone, probably on a podcast or in a seminar." It's clever in that it takes advantage of a couple of things: (1.) Sociological research has recently shown that millennials and zoomers respond best to advertising endorsements made by other human beings, especially "normal" people and "influencers"; (2.) Similar research shows the same younger generations largely do not take statements by authorities at face value; (3.) There's an image that conservative but also liberal men seem to be gravitating towards which is the calm and collected, intelligent and savvy, well dressed and sensibly traditional male role model; (4.) Combine the three, what do you get? Engineered social approval or consent of politically-alternative ideas, a more sophisticated "astro turfing" for the digital age.
Short and to the point. Much appreciated.
Best way I've found to deal with this without disengaging is just to not let up. Keep that same energy throughout the conversation. Quote them directly from the chat history. Challenge their tone-change. Folks usually pull this tactic when they're running out of points to make, if you steamroll past that switch they'll either have to stick with it or get angry that you refuse to change the subject.
I both love these videos and hate how relevant they are in today's geopolitical climate.