CO-VIDs: adventure games about jesus
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2020
- 100% of ad proceeds for CO-VIDs will be donated to Critical Resistance, a police and prison abolition group co-founded by Angela Davis. UA-cam's CPM is pretty small, so I encourage you to donate directly, if you're able: donatenow.networkforgood.org/...
For everyone asking, the outro music is The Gesualdo Six rendition of Veni Veni Emmanuel
ua-cam.com/video/MSRocN1dTrM/v-deo.html
Hey man, I watched a very old video called we don't talk about kenny (on the walking dead) I loved it, and wondered what the intro music was called.
Will you have any political videos for the upcoming election?
@@bascal133 all my videos are political
Innuendo Studios boi stop playing you know what I mean 😭🤣🙌🏾. “Will you make videos, in the style of the alt right playbook, about the new tactics being used by the right in the run up to the presidential election” ?
@@InnuendoStudios Did you change the title of this video? I think I watched it before when it referenced the names of the two games, but I could be confused (though I have been certain that I've seen some other creators occasionally change video titles days or even weeks after release before).
Anyway, I really appreciate your work, and think that you are making a massive impact at a cultural level (especially with projects like the Alt-Right Playbook...speaking of which, any plans to write Co-Vids that continue the playbook, or are you done with it for now?). Keep up the great work!
I think the core difference is that Alum is about unconditional faith, and Dropsy is about unconditional love.
Well put.
Excellent observation!
Well said, my man. I am quoting that.
Both are necessary for true Christian belief though - as Jesus and his apostles said, you can't have one without the other
@@matthewbrandin6947 I’ve never liked that philosophy due to it implying that in order to love, one must believe, and as an extension of that, if you’re not Christian, you don’t know how to love. I don’t like this mindset largely because it’s an entirely false mindset.
Dropsy seems kind of like the anti-Goose.
"I think I will solve problems on purpose."
This comment made me realize why I don't want to play the Goose game!
Its a horrible day in this city
And you are a lovable clown
Then, if Dropsy is a Jesus allegory, does that make the Goose the devil?
It checks out.
"peace was always an option"
The sudden enthusiasm that hit your voice at the phrase "PILOT A MECH FOR JESUS" is gonna ensure that phrase is stuck in my head all day.
PILOT A MECH FOR JESUS- The End Of Evangelion (1997)
Y'all would love the Captain Bible video game then 😝 Look it up 😃
I want "PILOT A MECH FOR JESUS" on a shirt!
SharPhoe it’s gonna be the one thing i remember from this video
@@ragalyiakos on the front Pilot a Mecha for Jesus. On the back, to attack and dethrone God!
Using "h*ck," "fl*p," and "fr*ick"? Not on my Altruist Minecraft server!
Getting a bad feeling from a game that suggests the cure to a plague be speading religious belief
Yeah... this is definitely not a good time for this to be happening.
Well it isn't a physical plague so it makes sense in context.
GIFT1FROM1THE1GODZ Yeah please argue for a game where the premise is your mental illness, depression in this case, will go away/be cured when you become religious and start spreading that religion. This is not just a cute dress for evangelicals and the destruction they cause in people’s life with their harassment but also an insult to people who have mental illness.
@@elif6908 Don't forget that this narrative can also imply that non-belief itself is the plague. You are sick because you don't believe, and you can transmit your sickness by making sure others don't believe either. Both of these are very problematic statements when applied to subjective realities like religion.
@@DarkExcalibur42 And the idea that the government is "keeping the cure" from the people is very similar to all those pics Boomers share on Facebook about how "God isn't allowed in school" and shit.
"It's almost like there is no belief system under which people can't rationalize crappy behavior". You could sell T-shirts with that.
It's really pretty annoying in context though, because the "belief system" he's referring to, atheism, isn't a belief system at all but rather the absence of a belief. The false claim that atheism has led people to commit atrocities is a frequent talking point of religious apologists.
@@kennethconnally4356 I've been an atheist my entire adult life. I'm aware of the distinction, but I recognize that the shorthand is often convenient, and am generally forgiving of it.
@@kennethconnally4356 I don't think that's quite what he was saying. Even though "Atheism" isn't a belief system, atheists still have belief systems, just ones that don't involve god. And whatever belief system someone is using, whether they're religious, atheist, agnostic, spiritualist, etc., it can still be used to justify crappy behavior.
Just take, say, Juche or Stalinism as examples. They're atheist, areligious, and have been used to justify atrocities.
@@Twrgadarn If that's the point, I still think it's a bad one. If someone criticizes Stalinism for leading to the gulags, is it really any kind of defense for the Stalinist to say "well, but any ideology can be used to justify bad behavior"?
@@kennethconnally4356 I still think that's valid. Any ideology/belief system can be used to justify crappy behavior. But some are more prone to do so than others.
Is it ok that i heavily identify w dropsy???? I too can't talk to people and just wanna make them feel better
I get this very much. and animals are so much easier to get along with too.
@@TheSkullPanda Throwback to when I made friends with the neighbor's dog. Not the neighbor, just his dog.
@@sasak369 I once said "hi" to a dog and was startled because the human walking the dog told me "hi" back(to be clear I just wasn't expecting a response from the person)
Of course it's okay. And you don't need my or anyone else's approval to be as you are. And if it's wrong to be this way, then let's be wrong together.
jon dw i do that all the time man! whenever i see a cute dog i can’t help myself, i always wave or say hi to them lmao
Wait, but Superman's Jesus-fying is very much an after-the-fact aspect of his character. The ORIGINAL Superman, created by a Jewish duo, is not supposed to be Jesus; he is pretty clearly inspired by MOSES. A baby left in a basket, sent away to survive the destruction of his people? His birth name is Kal-El?
It's Christian creators totally misreading that metaphor that created Jesus-Superman. I mean... the crucial aspect of Jesus' story is that he died for our sins. It's a story of *ressurrection*. Where does that even fit Superman??
Well, Superman has since died and returned to life in the comics, but yeah that is a later addition to the lore
But the only thing Superman ever had in common with Moses in the first place is his origin, nothing about his adulthood. Superman was born into nobility but raised by commoners, the direct opposite of Moses, and there is never a point where Superman sides with his birth culture over his adopted one like Moses did.
Thank you for the info. I knew something felt off cause he's made by Jewish immigrants, why would he be at all intentionally a Jesus figure?? That makes more sense
The Superman = Moses shit is also dumb, just fyi. Can't really phrase that in a kind way so I won't.
Superman is "John Carter of Mars, but in reverse, as someone we wish would come and take care of our corrupt bosses for us." That was further refined into "Superman is Upper Class Power informed by Working Class Ideals" which is why all of his most iconic enemies are bullies, tyrants, and corrupt nobles of various stripes who behave unethically-- particularly towards those beneath their capability.
Any religious allusions to Superman are stapled on and don't hold water. They never have. They never, ever have.
Thank you for pointing this out, the Jesus-ification of Superman makes me ITCH as a Jew
I just noticed just how beautifully the hugs in Dropsy are animated. Like with the design of the character and how he moves it all feels so warm and soft and kind and gosh darn I Luv it
"Ancient mech for Jesus" is possibly the best phrase I've heard this year, if not ever
Speaking as someone who’s in the same boat vis a vis “grew up in a Christian environment, no longer religious at all but fascinated by religion and sees the value in it for believers”? A lot more Christian media could use “piloting a mecha for Jesus” as a plot point.
This is basically the synopsis of a good dozens of late 90's/early 2000's mech shows.
There's no time to explain! Get in the Jesus Mech!
ShootingStarNeo Christians could use some more good media. They’ve barely made anything good since Veggietales, and even that went down
That line could’ve sold me the game were it not for the rest of it.
I am aware I misspelled "Confucius" but didn't want to re-export and re-upload. Apologies.
Well, I finished the video and I gotta say, your English teacher would be proud, but this is something. As a Christian the final like about rationalizing crappy behavior under any belief was the quote of the century, and the takes on the games make a lot of sense. You did well, but Jesus isn't indistinguishable from God the father after he ascends, he's still Jesus (and if memory serves, he was kind of always there, it's always been a weird thing but whatever.) Other than that, decent take. I wish we had actual Christians making videos like this, though. We need left-leaning Christians on UA-cam/Breadtube
lool thats nothin this is really good content!
I'll take that 10 times over saying the wrong word in a script and instead of rerecording you just put the right word on screen. At least I can understand it was a missed error instead of being too lazy to do your script again and leave blind people with inaccurate information.
No worries, we'll call it a non-standard romanization.
His name can't even be properly spelled using the Latin alphabet. Anyone with a problem can eat 驴
.
Me before the video: why did I get an ad for Messianic Judaism outreach
4 minutes in: ohhhhhhhh
I love it when internet essayists say something "isn't subtle" and the thing passed over my head without registering AT ALL. Dunamis who?
It's an ancient greek word with modern meaning derived from its usage in the Bible. Basically, it's strength, power, miracles, potentiality, ability to do a thing through the power of God.
It's only subtle to you because you weren't forced through years of sunday school. Or more accurately, Innuendo Studios, myself, and people like us find it unsubtle because we grew up in religious families where that sort of allusion was commonplace enough that we're familiar with it. A lot of people in this country, even those who aren't religious but who grew up in religious families, tend to assume everyone has the same baseline of knowledge about the religion they were raised in.
In a similar vein, my handle is an unsubtle shot at dogmatic thinking, and also at the hardline Richard-Dawkins type atheists. Tabris is just the Angel of Free Thought, after all, though he's tagged by the Catholic Church as one of the Fallen. To those who didn't grow up in the Catholic Church and have a very reactionary Monsignior, it's an Eva reference and I'm just a weeb. (I am both a weeb and an Eva fan, but the handle is the result of being a mildly bitter ex-Catholic with a sense of irony, and I have been using it since well before I saw Evangelion).
@@BaelPenrose Can you provide me some sources on Tabris from a theological point of view? I tried googling it, but all that came up are eva references.
@@VellusTerennia He's mentioned in Revelations, but it's a fairly obscure mention. I suspect he got well known enough to have his name used in Eva because of Paradise Lost - which a whole bunch of Cardinals and Catholic scholars had to give Milton permission to write and got to edit. He's portrayed there as one of Lucifer's hands that will guide people away from the word of God and towards godless or secular thinking. His quote from Paradise Lost is something to the effect of "My Prince of Darkness need not waste his art / For godless and and Fallen are mere hairsbreadth apart." Unsurprisingly he didn't get a lot of attention in Catholic teaching until Renaissance and Reformation started cropping up and challenging them, which is probably why he cropped up in Paradise Lost. Mentions of him in catholic teaching declined as a result of political calculus and the Catholics realizing that one of their draws against Protestantism was that they were willing to engage with *some* earthly arts and sciences, so reminding us that an angel of secular thought was one of the Fallen was going to weaken their case against Luther and Calvin somewhat.
I'm suprised he doesn't crop up in American evangelism more, since that narrative would be so fitting for them, but then they're mostly protestants and Protestantism, as I understand it, cares a lot less about biblical angels than Catholocism as a rule. (Or aesthetic, presentation, style, reality, the fucking concept of the Grace of Christ, charity and mercy as virtues, really anything that made christianity even remotely cool. I might be a bitter ex-Catholic but I will still defend it as the less awful sect of Christianity. Onto a topic other than the vandalizing prick and the sexually repressed heretic known as Luther and Calvin, respectively. ;P) There's also some degree of argument amongst catholic scholars, or was, about his role in revelations since the mention of him isn't terribly clear about what side he's on at Armageddon. Some thought he was a bit about how even the unchanging can be changed by Christ into something good but it's really not clear. But that's about as much as I remember.
He is also a cute twink in Eva because Anno heard "Angel of Free Thought and Alternatives" and thought "oh you mean alternatives for those who aren't into waifu arguments" apparently.
Aye. They're all like 'Obviously' and I'm like, 'Wha?'
Speaking as a Christian, think I like Dropsy a lot more than Alum as put. Also, 10:25, he can be all three. Seriously, though, Christian or no, you've basically articulated my view of things pretty well. "Hands that help are better then lips that pray". It matters not if you believe in God: Only if you follow kindness towards your fellow man. If you do that, you are holy, whatever you pray to, or if you don't pray at all. In many ways, I believe a kind Atheist is, on a moral level, better then their Christian counterpart: You have no Hell to fear, no Heaven to aspire to...And, yet, you still choose to be kind. I say, even if you worship God, you should act like an Atheist, by which I mean, do all you can to help your fellows, rather then leaving it to God.
Billy Weed Amen to this.
This attitude is what made me realise religion does not matter. Good people will not let their religion get in the way of being good, and bad people will justify their bad deeds with whatever religion they have.
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” - Google attributed it to Marcus Aurelius
"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." - James 2, 14-17
I mean, more power to you, but that just seems like humanism with extra steps
Dropsy is a great game and I love him he’s so precious and deserves ALL HUGS.
Such a shame he's the most terrifying being I've ever seen
@@obliviousotterI Reminds me of me with E.T. Most people find him cute or kinda goofy but ever since I saw it as a kid I have been terrified of him and it sucks because my mom is always like "but he's so nice and has such a positive message" but I literally can barely look at him without feeling uncomfortable (it's gotten better as I have gotten older though). Incidentally, I think Dropsy is kinda cute so I get what it is like to be on the other side of things lol.
"one of your dedicated verbs is *hug*" Sold.
Superman's really more Moses, then Jesus, which makes sense, since he was created by two Jews. Jor-El certainly isn't a God of any sort, and, in the comics, Supes wasn't sent to Earth to set a good example for the human: He was sent off because his original home was about to be destroyed, like Moses being sent down the river to escape the massacre of his people. Plus, the name Kal-El, translated into Hebrew, where El means God (hence the angels all having names that end in it: For instance, Michael is "who is greater than God", a rhetorical question whose answer is "no-one".) doesn't mean "Son of God": It means "Voice of God", as one would expect for Moses, who was a mortal prophet. Of course, that's not one-to-one either. Ultimately, I think Superman takes elements from Moses AND Jesus, but, ultimately, isn't a straight allegory for either of them: He's his own character.
Superman was created by Jewish writers. I'm a Christian and I see the parallels that Christians see, but they are generally contained in false understandings of what the Gospel portray. Even in Mark (the kung-fu heavy metal gospel) Jesus has not come to destroy evil with miracles but to die on a cross. That is the explicit plot of Jesus' life; it is not the character of Superman. (Until the Death of Superman, which is a whole other conversation.)
I much prefer the Moses allegory, as it (correctly) points out Superman as a person given special privileges and abilities to enact a social change, which is much closer to the story of Moses (whose story is intertwined with the liberation of people and the reform of a society) than with Jesus (whose story is intertwined with a divine activity that will permanently alter reality whether people like it or not).
@@GestasLeftcross Indeed. As I said, I don't think he's a clear cut allegory to either of them. He's his own thing, with elements of both, but generally separate.
As an aside, I’ve kinda wanted for a while now for someone to write an even more Jewish version of the Superman story, in which he is raised by observant Jews, presents himself as Jewish in his Superman persona, and has to deal with other Jews wanting to declare him Moshiach.
I’m really glad someone else pointed this out! My biggest issue with Snyder’s Superman treatment was the erasure of Jewish themes in favor of more mainstream Christian-centric storytelling. Also minor correction-Michael or מיכאל is more accurately rendered “who is like unto God” with the rhetorical answer being no-one as you said. Also nice Esther shout out!
Using this opportunity to suggest _The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay_ to anyone who hasn't read it...written by someone very much aware of the environment that led to Superman and superhero comics in general. Basically, superheroes make sense as a whole category of characters created by a bunch of mostly Jewish writers and artists, mostly from New York, living in a society where Christian imagery is *everywhere*.
As an atheist who actually knocked on doors for a couple years for the LDS Church, I think the most potent moment for me was the moment that I realized who I was and what I thought was right not only didn’t come from God, and was in fact, contradictory to what God had said. Granted, my disillusionment came from going from “what if the Mormon prophet is just a guy” to “what if all the prophets were just some guy” . In the end, I found I’d rather live like Topsy than to be called and “Chosen” like Alum
Dropsy reminds me of how Jesus is described by the prophet Isaiah - a lowly and humble man, with a heart for the poor and the downtrodden, whose suffering and pain he ultimately takes on for himself - even to the point of death. I really appreciate hearing the perspective of a non-believer when it comes to Christian media - especially when it comes to unique mediums like video games. Thanks as always for your perspective and I have to say it was a surprising treat to get a video from you that seriously honed in on religion and Christianity in particular.
It's pretty interesting as a lifelong atheist seeing how codedly-Christian fiction uses or doesn't use the symbols. There's a webcomic I'm reading where (at least so far) the most present way the ... demon? devil? Satan? analogue is represented in the fiction is negative self-thoughts - the kind of thing that people dealing with anxiety or depression or rejection-sensitive dysphoria would recognize immediately.
I do much prefer that or Dropsy's unfailing altruism to (to paraphrase Fred "Slacktivist" Clark) "the good news is you get to spread the good news"-style evangelizing.
Daughter of the Lilies, right? Surprised to see a fellow fan here!
@@Rajun008 Yep! I'm liking the comic so far - interested to see where they take it.
What does seem to me as a good way of representing the Devil. Every impulse of selfishness in your mind is the devil speaking
@@Packbat given what we've seen her make so far between "the nightmare comic" and the Spiderman comic she made, as well as just the rest of DotL, I think it will be taken somewhere really amazing.
Satan is more about questioning blind faith. Why not eat that apple if you're hungry. Why did job continue to blindly follow god after god allowed such atrocities. The great flood, plagues, crusades. Satan is about humanism
Anyone else been getting incessant Trump/Prager U ads when watching left-ish channels?
YES i keep getting the trump survey ads and i’m so tired of it
SAME HERE it's insane.
@Joe Average I made a burner email account vladimir.i.lenin to troll the survey, which didn't do much other than make me giggle like a 10 year old.
Warmachine a true comrade
Joe Average exactly, it’s the most expensive way of fishing for compliments i’ve ever seen
Speaking as a Catholic, I am far more drawn to Dropsy's Jesus than Alum's. I supposed I've always taken to the idea that religion is either compassionate humanism, or it is nothing.
Same, and I've been thinking about converting to catholicism.
Oof. I had heard of Alum, and wanted to see if it was a good modern adventure game, but as a Jewish person, I don't think I want to play a game all about proselytizing.
It's not even proselytizing, because there's no ethos to proselytize! It's literally just "here, drink from this thing, I can't force you to take it but I don't have to tell you what it is."
@@InnuendoStudios Eh, there's still "drink the bottle Jesus from the Christian God altruist ghost or you'll suffer depressio- I mean the Vague trust me man I'm saving you" going on. But fair point.
@@disposable157 No prob! I would like to see if there are any Jewish-influenced games. Not games specifically about Judaism, but that have stories that could only have been told they way they were by Jewish people. I mean, we already have a lot of Jesus figures, why not lean into that "Yisra'el means 'he who wrestles with G-d'" and have some kickass JRPG-style fights? 😄 (Fun fact! There's not a lot of proselytizing with Judaism. Even the most chill reform movements require a big period of studying and a test if you want to convert, and the studying can be for 14 weeks or longer! Orthodox places even reject people three times to test them before they allow even that!)
mayatunes I know this is an extreme exception, but I once met a Chabadnik that tried to convince me to convert because he found out that I was dating my now-wife. While she’s practicing Judaism again, at the time she was a lapsed convert and we were both practicing polytheists.
@@NarfiRef True, true. There are converters and Messianic Jews too. There tends to be a divide between them and the more Orthodox/Reform movements, but we disagree about a lot of stuff, haha. Sorry if they bugged you!
as a lefty, trans christian, i’d gotten so used to lefty youtubers i like taking potshots at religion (and mine in particular) that when the episode opened on a Jesus comparison my immediate reaction was dull dread. i’m so happy that feeling was completely unfounded. for someone not in the faith, this was really insightful and respectful. i’ve got to stop expecting anything less from you ♥️
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who's sick and tired of surface level criticism of religion. We must move beyond it and build socialism as people from diverse faiths.
"Lefty trans christian"
WE FOUND THEM, WE FOUND WALDO!
I'm kidding. My aunt is Hari Krishna (the sect of Hindu that spread into the middle east and heavily influenced the forms of messianic Judaism that later Voltron'd into Christianity. Seriously, lolk up Gopal, literally Jesus like 10 thousand years before Jesus) and the temple in her home village has the following quote engraved over it's entrance:
"It doesn't matter what God you call, so long as you call God"
Basically its what you said. God's will is executed in acts, not words. I was raised by an atheist (ex Baptist, I think) father and a non-practicing Irish catholic mother who converted to Hari krishna around when I was 8. Im going to say to you what my father told my aunt:
"I'd probably be going to church still if half the folks there were like you"
I'm more partial to mainstream, nondenominational Islam than any of the other religions but I still have that attitude. If the church and it's adherents acted like you even half the time, I would have never questioned my religion.
@@wraithwrecker_ look up "Horizon Initiative". I know its fictional and exists in a universe where God(s) are confirmed to exist, but they literally do what you're describing. Their goal is to unite humanity via emphasis on the details that every religion have in common, and use that faith (faith is a tangible force that can be measured, stored, directed, and even weaponized in that universe) to fight the "things that go bump in the night".
I was brought up in the theologically liberal/liturgically conservative part of the Christian spectrum (no problem with lesbian clergy, but none of that rock band light show nonsense for us), and I feel the same way. By the way, on the topic of humanism and how it's been hijacked, I recommend this piece by R. Joseph Hoffman. rjosephhoffmann.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/movement-humanism/
Or just be a Deist. There's no church or religious text to declare what you can and can't be.
An excellent reflection on these games and the themes. I think some more wrangling with the Christian tradition would be needed to break down some of the things I personally thought were muddy but here's the short version:
Seems to me that Alum is about "Christianity as resistance" and Dropsy is more about "Christianity as discipleship through acts of love". The slippage is that one of the chief teachings of Jesus is that this dichotomy the world is so convinced of is a false dichotomy.
For Christians, Jesus is both means and end. Discipleship is resistance as works of charity. Alum's troubling use of violent and militaristic imagery reveals that it's telling the Christian story of the church through the strictly sinful (and evil) narrative of "us/them" war. In Christian thought, you don't become immune to sin; there is NEVER a time when the (human) divisions are "light versus dark" or "good versus evil". You cannot divide human beings or the world in such a neat fashion; Jesus actually teaches this in the parable of the wheat and tares/weeds in the field.
So it might be very interesting to move into that territory about means and ends in which we dabble here, with the primary question being "if all means are potentially evil or good, if purity is impossible and we are all fallible, how do we make choices and are they based on imposing our own vision of reality or are they built on compassionate relationship with the vulnerable?" I'd love for vulnerability to be a topic discussed on this channel at some point.
Anyway, many thanks for the video. Cheers.
Excellent comment.
Thank you for putting into words what I couldn't quite express. The us/them narrative, as if we are called to fight the world rather than love it. After all, our battle is not against flesh and blood. As soon as he said that Alum became immune to The Vague after receiving the rushlight, I decided this game wasn't for me. At least the way Ian described it, The Vague very much seemed like an extreme form of depression, which is something I, a Christian, deal with.
I never knew people thought about that parable that way, in the church i grew up in people only ever talked about the last few verses of that about how the wheat and weeds were separated and burned at the harvest, really played that up to scare us kids. I wish more churches talked about stuff like this. I'm just an ex christian but to me it seems like whether or not the earth was created in seven days or whatever is not even close to the most important part of that book, but that's all they wanted to talk about.
@@midnite1112 yeah that interpretation dates to Augustine at the latest (4th century). What you're reporting is the product of an abandonment by many Christians of what Christianity has always taught - ironic, considering the whole point of the Reformation in the Western/Roman tradition was to correct this. I'm sorry you had that experience, but I'm sadly not surprised. I, too, wish more Christians talked about stuff like this.
@@GestasLeftcross I wish more christian followed Christ.
Im a TA and im studying to become a religion teacher. The viewpoint of a former beliver is still valued in an education setting, which id argue this is.
That's the way it should be
I'm curious.
What, if any, perspectives in an education setting are not valued? Are there any groups of people who are de facto disregarded due to their association/participation in said group?
I don't intend to insinuate anything by asking, I'm genuinely curious as to what your experience is because as someone who has personally been separated from religious life since before I went through puberty... It's a really difficult perspective for me to catch in my life.
I don't think I have a single friend who is an atheist as I am. So I would appreciate some additional insight from someone who isn't personally attached.
Dropsy really is a special game and after watching this, I may need to give it another playthrough.
I can imagine playing through Dropsy and never thinking about how awesome Dropsy is for being a loving and kind person. I'd probably just laugh every time he did something weird. Fuck, I kinda wanna play Dropsy.
the rushlight kinda reminds me of the Holy Eucharist. this little thing that you can carry around, hide in your pocket, but when others consume it they are essentially communing with Jesus himself and, from the moment they consume it, they are saved (spiritually speaking). The whole storyline of trying to sneak in this small, physical representation of Jesus that will literally save lives but being killed for your efforts because this object is illegal reminds me of St. Tarcisius. He was a young Christian boy in ancient Rome who was killed for trying to sneak the Holy Eucharist to imprisoned Christians. Idk if it's only a Catholic thing, but that's what it makes me think of.
Yeah, that slunds super Catholic.
Probably the only thing I disagree with is that "you're not a believer" should be viewed as legitimate criticism. It is not. Christianity is a worldview and a philosophy. It can be understood well or poorly and the activity of, say, going to the church regularly, tells me nothing on how well one understands it.
I go back and forth on this. As a white person, it's not my place to critique Black culture; as a man, it's not my to critique femininity. That's in part because of privilege, so it's complicated with Christianity because Christians have way, way more numbers and institutional power than atheists, but that's not true of all religions. I don't think I get to critique Judaism, for instance. I can still *talk* about these things, and discuss complications, but I think it's valid to own the fact that I do not have the same lived experience and that's going to color my perspective.
@@InnuendoStudios Yeah, fair enough, I see your point. I'd still say that there are two key differences:
1. Feminity or black culture is still far, far more fluid of an understanding than the concrete notions of Christianity. The first is basically someone's lived experience, while the second one is a text and the lived experiences of those who follow that text are still irrelevant to the text itself. Needless to say, Christianity has a very complex history, but in the end, if one wants to know what it is about, one only needs to look into the bible. Whereas one's experiences of living as a black person or as a woman are completely unavailable to me. I can listen to them and empathize with them but I will never actually know what it is like to live that life. Therefore it is also true that I'll never be able to know what a life of a devout Christian is, but (and I'm going a bit Death of the Author here) their life experiences are still largely irrelevant to the text of, say, the gospels, as I said above.
2. Secondly, I could be outside of a certain narrative and still say: hey this story resembles in its pattern this other story. Was it meant to? I don't know, but it does resemble it. I found Toy Story 4 to be pretty Sartrian, for example. :D
P.S. By the way, love your channel and your videos, keep up the good work!
@@InnuendoStudios I've never bought the "outside perspectives don't count" for any of these cases. In the past I've been wrong (and proven wrong) because I lacked context, the absence of which could be traced back to me being an outsider, but my not being a woman or my being cisgender weren't what made my opinions wrong. And when I accounted for the context I was given I wasn't called out for being an outsider anymore.
I've been wrong about the bible before, and called out by people who have studied it. But I've also called out practicing Catholics who made the same, and worse, mistakes that I did. And they could (and sometimes did) tell me my opinions don't count because I'm an outsider. Didn't matter I was quoting an educated insider on the exact piece of scripture they'd corrected me on. "You're an outsider" was just a means to not have a discussion they didn't want to have.
@@InnuendoStudios I just watched all your co-vids back-to-back, and I'd suggest you statement about the privileged making themselves known is the answer to this dilemma. Christianity makes itself unavoidable in our culture. Other religions do not.
There are two types of atheists, the ex-theists and never-theists. I think both should get to criticize Christianity, especially as it is an extension of western hedgemonic soft power, but ex-Christians probably have as much right to criticize Christianity as Christians do. Ex employees often have as much insight if not more than current employees about a company's failings.
Christianity also isn't like blackness or gender identity in that beliefs are malleable and can change. I can't become more or less black, I am as black as I will be until the day I die. I can change how Christian I am. I can convert right now, if so convinced. Well, convert back. I got out relatively early and have been secular for near a decade now, more of my life that I can remember is secular rather than not.
But there's a part of me that deeply resents the notion that a critique I make would be invalid just because I no longer subscribe to the faith. I'm sure there are things I can't speak to, like the culture of church in 2020 and later as opposed to 2012, the last time I'd attended. But you know... There's still that line in Romans calling me an abomination because as an adult I've slept with other men.
Hard not to feel a little burned.
OH man, does this give me feelings. I am a failed pastor, in that, I did all the training, education, and legwork in order to become a Methodist pastor myself... and then was denied after floundering in a rural church with little support or direction. As of now, I'm still Christian, but currently unaffiliated, and getting my Ph.D. in religious ethics as a way of doing what I always wanted to do--teach people how to think about how their faith moves them to action.
So in watching this video, though I haven't played these games, I can appreciate your take on how though one might have a similar origin point philosophically or theologically, that origin point does not dictate the direction in which you take your ethics. Alum takes the ethical route of many larger, establishment church denominations--the ends justify the means, as long as you make more followers. Dropsy takes the virtue-ethical position of "do good things because they are good, and that's the only motivation you need to do good," which I tend to be drawn towards anyways. Thank you for this thoughtful analysis. I hope more people would be willing to engage in such a way with how theology and ethics intermingle into practice, and these two games illustrate just that.
(side note: Though I like the message of Dropsy more....the aesthetic gives me the willies. Perhaps I'm just a sucker for the more Sierra inspired graphics of Alum)
Pilot an ancient mech for Jesus? Does anyone else hear Cruel Angel's Thesis or is it just me?
Well I'm certainly hearing it now, and will be for days lol
I havent watched that myself but wasnt that about piloting a mech to fight god, thats at least what ive gathered about it from hearing about it
@@dragamation3266 SEELE runs NERV and SEELE is the religious organization thay follows the Dead Sea Scrolls and is trying to accomplish instrumentality. So by working fir SEELE you couod say they were working for god.
@@downsjmmyjones101 ooohhh ok. I just remember hearing that the monsters they fight are basically biblical angels so thats how i got the idea of "fighting god with mechs"
I almost want to play Dropsy. They just seem like a real lovable character. Morally-questionable in some cases, but their meaning seems to always be pure.
LET 👏 INNUENDO STUDIOS 👏 SWEAR 👏
heck this
But this is a video about Jesus, theres no room for those unholy words
This made me happy. Nothing like a good old reminder that religion can be used in many different ways, including for the sake of love and kindness. It's something that I often forget, as someone who grew up slighted by catholicism.
I grew up Catholic, became an atheist, became an *anti-theist* , went back to just regular old atheism, and now after a rough encounter with 450 mics of acid and 4 months of quarantine, I'm thinking of joining one of those churches that focuses more on people and community rather than recitation of prayer(eugh!).
I went to a Unitarian service once when my mother was looking for a new religion to belong to and I really liked it. People shared good stories about their lives and things they'd heard happening in the world.
Alternatively, there are the Quakers. It sounds super silly that one could become a Quaker in the modern day but Quakers are actually really awesome. They're also really into community and stuff.
There's always Buddhism. My research has led me to believe they focus more on meditation but meditation is supposed to be really good anyway.
@@downsjmmyjones101 But literally none of it is true, though. I don't get why you would want to go to a worship service over just, say, reading about the various rules/regulations/philosophies about the religion/theology in question?
@@macgeek2004 Because I'm looking for a community that wants to help people and Unitarians and Quakers don't really mess around with god much. They're more into recognizing each other as worthy of worship as we are all the most divine beings we will encounter.
I'm looking to belong to group. A group that can provide connection. There isn't much connection that can be had in solitary pursuit of knowledge.
They don't require that you believe in anything other than the value of other people.
@@downsjmmyjones101 “I’m looking to belong to a group”
This is just sad. Have fun in the death cult. Lol!
@@Quaquadaqu What death cult? What's wrong with wanting to be a part of a group?
"There is no belief system under which people can't rationalize crappy behavior" that quote really caught and I need to think about that more.
Dropsy is one of the most wholesome games I've played. I especially love that the main character is a clown because it's an image that normally terrifies us or makes us uncomfortable but Dropsy is a classic "Never judge a book by its cover" kind of game.
Yeah, not gonna lie the whole time Dropsy was being shown I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Did not expect wholesome clown.
I have to say, I'm living for these rapid releases even if it's a flash in the pan. I appreciate the time and effort you put into your regular releases, but little tugs at the ear like the cadence of Ian Danskin, and we are better off for there being more of it~
I thought you were going into the conservative vs liberal God at the end there. You can go back to the Enlightenment and see that there are two very distinct interpretations of God: one who built man capable of goodness and love and one who built man as evil and in need of strict guidance and punishment. The former is the one believed by Voltaire and Galileo and the other is believed by some preachers who we don't remember because they made no significant contribution to society in shaking their fist at progressives (and Pascal). The loving God is freeing, teaching kindness without judgement - "do your best to be kind to others and then a little bit more". The strict God is restrictive and demanding with a long list of reasons you are imperfect. But the way this is solved is usually through prayer. Well praying does nothing to improve the state of the world relative to altruism.
I'm gonna stop there cause you get the point.
I have to disagree because the God of the bible is both these things at once. Love and judgement do not exclude each other. The point of the laws in the bible are to make us aware of our sin, to show that we cannot be perfect and to show our need for God. But God loves us, so he sent Jesus to take all the punishment for sin we deserve so that we can have a relationship with him.
Romans chapter 3 verse 23-24 says it really well, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
By putting our faith in him we are freed from our sin, which allows us to learn how to love whole-heartedly as Jesus loves us. But judgement is not a bad thing. God will also right all injustice and everyone will get what they deserve. All the terrible things that people have done on this earth, the murders, cruelty, genocide, will be punished, even if people get away with it now, which is a wonderful comfort.
Sorry if I rambled a bit, but I think that this is important for you to understand. I really recommend reading the whole book of Romans since it really captures the biblical message and explains it better than I can, but I am happy to keep chatting if you'd like :D
Hell of a video otherwise, but got to admit that even though I’m not Jewish, I still almost had a stroke when you referred to Superman being like Jesus.
(Not that I’m suggesting that being unaware of his Jewish roots is a sin or anything - none of us can know all the things!)
Another point is that while Supes was written by two Jews and originally shares a lot more with Moses than Jesus, he has changed a lot since his initial portrayal and has been written a lot by Christians who play into the Jesus allegory that any prophet-based character can have, especially Moses, who, if it weren't for proselytizing early Roman Catholics, would be a lot more like jewish Jesus anyways. Supes might not have started out with much Jesus in him, but that aspect has been played up by the numerous Christian wroters he has had.
The original Superman had more in common with Moses. Most modern adaptations depict him as a pure being from the heavens, both human* and something else, here to save the world from itself. Also, you know, all the unsubtle Jesus imagery.
Superman is many things, and a Jesus analogue is undeniably one of them.
*Like, biologically he's Kryptonian, but spiritually he's just a nice dork from Kansas. I've seen people argue he's more human than Batman.
As a Christian and someone who aspire to make games with actual meaning in them, I really appreciate this video.
Keep me updated.
liam dahlgren
If he is American, then he is a unexplainable rarity, cool.
@@alexcereuceta5907 I'm an american Christian Communist! *crickets ring out * I'm also kinda alone in that lmao someone help me XD
@Michael Freed yeah, you're completely right. Using ideology as justification for action has lead to some of the most horrible acts in human history.
There's a part of me that thinks it's kinda pointless and naive to try to make games that can help fix real world problems and that instead, I should try being more of an activist. Problem is, I would be a horrible activist.
I think the best thing a game can do is force you to question real world things. Like you say, it's easy to get players to do good stuff in game by systemically making it the ideal way to play but at the end, players can walk away from that with nothing. But if you can get them to question thing (which I have experienced in games) you hopefully plant the seed for change.
@Michael Freed You make some really good points. To be honest, until just recently, I thought that "sure the government messed up occasionally but overall, what they do is in our best interest." but oh man, this has been quite the rude awakening for me. (I used to be rather sheltered.)
In addition to the validation thing, I think it is also just a lot of laziness. It is so much easier to just go with the flow because "they may be coming for but they're not coming for me." It's just so easy to turn a blind eye or justify things rather than confronting them head on.
I agree that there are easy ways to enact societal change, ways that most people would espouse but the main problem is that you need a large enough group to stand up and actually do something and in a large country, getting a group together that is large enough to start to be heard is gonna really hard and, as you said, it is hard to get even one. Police brutality is a prime example of this. It isn't a new thing but it took several people being murdered in the streets for people to finally pay attention. Anyone in their right mind would agree that racism and police brutality are bad things and that someone should do something about it. Somehow though, that "someone" has a tendency to not include the person speaking. (I used to be there unfortunately. I've recently started looking into more active things I can do though). There is the fear of getting hurt, there is the fear of getting judged, and there is the "but I could be doing something else" and then that something else involves watching TV/YT and getting angry at the world for being the way it is which too often leads to coach philosophers rather than actual action. (again, I used to be there but I'm working on fixing that)
(sorry for the largely unorganized rant there. I have become very upset at the general state of the world of late. Also, I looked at the allaregreen thing you linked to and that is terrifying that that could be considered illegal)
I thought your series Bringing Back What's Stolen was going to be impossible to top, but I think this just became my favorite thing you've made.
At the very least I'm DEFINITELY going to play Dropsy now.
You know this video really conected with me. I'm not a Christian, far from it, when I was a kid I went to a Christian school where I honestly suffered directly from the extreme fundamentalist Christian upbringing (it's a long story related to my parents being divorced) but I also learned values like selflessness and humility; people will always find a way to acomodate the things they lived with the things they believe in and how they behave, whether is for good or bad depends on the person
Has anyone else noticed the incredible irony of the term Unfeigned Altruist being far more applicable to Dropsy the clown than the entity by that name?
"Not pretending to be affected and helping without expectation to benefit" does seem fitting for the clowno.
Thanks for this. As a Christian who plays games and watches leftish UA-cam, I'm so happy to see someone engage with these ideas in good faith ;)
It's very refreshing to see a critique of Christian ideas and media beyond fundamentalist movies like God's Not Dead (though those do deserve criticism)
As a Christian Socialist this video is honestly therapeutic. I was raised Roman Catholic and it very much felt like playing “a Jesus game with no Jesus in it”. It never sat right with me that we were encouraged to spread love/the word of god and motivated by the reward of eternal life. I’m in the “pacifist radical socialist” Jesus camp and I’ve always believed that doing good things of the sake of being good instills a genuine desire to see good things happen rather than an unconscious or conscious expectation of self gratification. So thank you for this video, I really needed it.
1) That version of O Come O Come Emmanuel is STUNNING. I had to go find the whole thing immediately and I'm so glad I did.
2) I can't really add anything meaningful on the philosophical end of this, but I will just mention that I love the way you construct your video essays, and I've really been loving the shorter-form CO-VIDS. I've often had no experience with the media you've centered your arguments around (barring Dr. Horrible), but the way you talk about themes and real-world issues in fictional settings is always compelling.
I didn't get very far into Alum because of the "Jesus is the only cure for depression" message. Even when I was a Christian, I would've found that incredibly gross.
I've never heard of either of these games but they sound interesting. Especially the scary bright one. I like the idea of just going around trying to help with really no expectation of a reward. This coming from someone who will literally take everything of value that isn't being actively monitored in morrowind ...and some that are if i can make them look away.
I'll have to look into these games.
it's almost like there is no belief system under which people can't rationalize crappy behavior.
Take my like.
I remembered this video and had an urge to revisit it, but I couldn't find it at first because I thought I watched it 3 years ago or something, and not 9 months ago. This last year has really done a number on my sense of time.
Hey! Your Co-Vids are some of my favorite videos of yours to date. As a non-denominational Christian, I thought Josh Keefe's "Silence - The Deconstruction of Faith" was another eloquent take on the different representations of Christianity in media.
I watched this video right after waking up from a post essential retail worker shift nap. I could not have predicted where it was going, but I found it genuinely interesting!
man, this was what I needed to hear, today.
I tend to get hung up on the rightness or wrongness of the beliefs, and forget the things we have in common when we put people first.
thank you so much for making this video.
I find it interesting how the art style and animations for Dropsy left me feeling really disturbed at first, but as the video kept going I was coming more around to it and now really appreciate it in a way.
Dropsy - The means is more important than the end
Altruist (or whatever it's called i forgot already) - The end justifies any means
Dropsy’s art style is amazing
For quickies these are pretty well thought out and interesting.
I have never heard of dropsy before maybe at best i heard it in passing years ago and gave it no mind but some reason seeing the clips of him hugging/fist-pumping/ wigging out with people and just being a swell person it made me cry and I don't know why
Dropsy is seriously good even with some moon logic. It's the most wholesome, almost childishly innocent game I've ever played.
On a more serious note, I really enjoyed this video, though I've never played either of these games. I am not someone most would consider a Christian, but Jesus is a big part of my spiritual path. To me, a pantheist pagan, he was a man so in touch with divinity that he realized loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself is the same thing. Not the only one, mind you, but one I connect with.
Same with Superman. I've always found it more compelling when the story centers more around Clark's life than it does around the incredible feats of Superman. That is why, despite Dean Cain's involvement, Lois & Clark is still one of my favorite iterations of that story. "Superman is what I do; Clark is who I am."
I've met Jay Tolten a while ago and you're extremely spot on about him !
ending the video with a clean shift from "no ideology is infallible, kindness is more important than kin" and then straight into the (beautifully performed, would love to know the specific recording) refrain of o come o come emmanuel for the credits was like shaking up a champagne bottle full of my emotions and then suddenly uncorking it; fully gasped and started crying like a tragic victorian protag. i appreciate the stillness tho, the last twenty seconds or so to sit with the art you have just encountered and hold it, absorb it, and feel yourself in the process of being a person. it's kind :)
the fact that you showed full throttle absolutely warms my heart. it is SUCH an underrated game.
Even with heavy spoilers I came away from this video with a deep desire to play Dropsy. On the other hand, I also came away from this vid with a desire to strap Alum and its creators to a rocket aimed at the sun and spend the rest of the afternoon reading "Why I Am Not A Christian"
Love this channel, saying it's incredible would be an understatement, it's GREAT and I'm totally with you. Though I'm curious as to why people think Richard Dawkins in Islamaphobic?
You're videos give me a lot to think about and I greatly appreciate it. Thanks Ian!
I loved this video. I've thought a lot about the meta narrative of adventure games like what does the solution to these puzzles say about the character I'm playing as, but I never thought about it as much in dropsy because I never felt like dropsy had a specific goal outside of making people happy so I can hug them. its interesting how a game can imply so much probably without the developer fully intending for something horrific or wtf like your Kathy rains example to be analyzed above a "I just solved a puzzle" mindset
Please drop the flips and fricks.
heck off
Its funny how just yesterday my mom and I had a conversation about the difference between being religious belief "in the institution" vs "the heart." About people who might follow the diets and the going to Church and the rituals, but still lie, cheat or steal on their free time
And the folks who may not practice or maybe not even fully believe, but still try to do the moral thing and practice kindness.
I think it parallels a lot of what you're saying here, of the church versus the philosophy of kindness.
As a person who was raised in, got away from, and came back to similar faiths, and a person who's been watching you since "We Don't Talk About Kenny", I very much appreciate this moment in your channel. I know answers and discussions around religion are not always...easy. This was a pretty nice way of getting to conversation about God/Jesus and the way walks of faith wind up using deity figures in their lives, whether it be just a general way of treating and thinking about people or a way of concerning yourself in terms of how the world works/should work.
I love that Dropsey makes sure people want to hug first 😥
Got an ad for this video from something called “what would you say?” which attempted to convince me that there are only two genders. Just FYI.
lmao imagine believing there are only two genders
Even though I watch mostly leftist/centrist Political youtube, I always get ads for PragerU, Trump2020, and the Daily Wire. It’s really annoying.
If you were a part of a religion, and are now no longer, I think that gives you a lot of authority on thd subject. Not necessarily supreme authority, but if you've analyzed it enough to understand where it logically and ethically falls short, then you probably know as much if not more than those who teach it.
Yeah I can get behind this.
As a Latter-day Saint, I appreciate your commentary. I haven't played Alum or Dropsy (yet), but you seem to have taken the effort to understand and critically evaluate systems of belief that you don't necessarily adhere to, which, as someone who grew up in a complicated, mixed-faith household is something I admire. Also, your taste in choral music is top-notch.
1. im so jazzed that you mentioned both godspell and jesus christ superstar, you really know how to speak to your musical theater nerd audience
2. i love that outro piece (i was raised episcopalian and have always loved traditional church music, despite being an atheist)
thanks as always for your interesting vids!
If not for the threat of a copyright strike I probably would've used Prepare Ye The Way Of The Lord as the outro music.
@@InnuendoStudios what is the outro piece? It's very beautiful and I'd love to hear the whole thing
it's the Gesualdo Six rendition of Veni Veni Emmanuel
I'm Jewish and I really want to play Dropsy- that game seems so much like what I want Christians to be like
So, kind and only really doing wrong via error and ignorance?
Sounds like Alum is about ideological conflict.
Like you don't even need it to be about Jesus. It could just be "Good Idea".
Alum is about Good Idea beats Bad Idea.
Dropsy is about the ambiguous nature of consequences and the fact that Dropsy has a certain set of "pyschological options" that he can employ to solve peoples problems and help them out in the Hope (capital H) that it will work out and he's gonna get what he needs to heal his very Fisher King type father figure.
Dropsy is King Arthur and the Grail Quest. It's Christian Existentialism. Knight of faith type stuff.
Alum is Christian Ideological conflict. It's the Spiritual Warfare type stuff about "Da Light" beating "Da Darkness". It's raw consequentialism in that only in the Game Over screen at the end of time do we get to see the high scores, so to speak.
I've always gone in for more of the former so I suppose I can't help be feel Alum is also a lot more on the nose compared to Dropsy.
Enjoying these rawer vids man. Hope you're staying safe in these times.
Love coming back to this vid!
Dayum these co-vids are great. I feel the dynamic of people supporting the "institution" rather than the "philosophy" could be applied to police, politicians and doctors in these crises times
As a Christian subscriber to your channel, thank you very much for this content. I'm not sure in Alum even the Rush-Light is the allegory for "Jesus". It's a closer allegory for the "Holy Spirit" I think. I don't know. I've never heard of that game before today and it seems to confuse its own message.
Maybe New Testament kind of confusing, if we believe the father, the son and the holy spirit are the same God, or aspects of God, or that God impregnated a woman with himself like a parasite, if you can forgive my cynicism.
As some lefty christian, much thanks for this one
wow...I remember the original Dropsy choose-your-own-adventure threads on SA that led to the game....blast from the past
Wait really? Dropsy, something so pure and kind, was inspired by the SomethingAwful forums?
@@Lou-Mae yeah, in 2007/8 I ran a Choose Your Own Adventure thread featuring Dropsy. SA was never a super wholesome place but it has lots of sub-communities who aren't involved in the crude/jerk stuff. that said, the original Dropsy was a bit more cynical because that was 12 years ago and I was pretty young. :)
suddenly you're making videos about some of my favorite games!!? First Kentucky Route Zero, now Dropsy...can't wait to see what's next! :)
When I saw the 'spoilers for Dropsy/Alum' card at the beginning, I decided to go and play Alum, then come back and watch the video (I'd already played Dropsy a long time ago). I'm glad you made this video (and it is a great video, as always), because the whole experience was very thought-provoking.
Having said that, I would disagree with the idea that Alum does not present a particular idea of Jesus, as it seems to match very closely to the version of Jesus my evangelical friends believe in - a God you can chat to, who will forgive all your dumbs and your bads, who has a plan for you if only you would submit to it, who loves you unconditionally, and who wants you to tell everyone about him. The fact that God and Jesus are almost interchangeable feels like part of that idea too. It also presents an ethos that I don't think is metaphorical, that good and evil are innate, external forces to which people can submit.
I would also argue that Alum has a noticeable ethos simply because it is incredibly recognisable as an evangelical christian game. I went into it without any knowledge of it at all, and in fact deeply distrusted the Altruist the first time Alum meets him, until it became very clear who the Altruist really was. I had also never heard the word 'rogation' before this, so the first overt reference came, for me, with the Jesus-mech. By this point, I already knew what the game was up to, and I knew what decisions I was expected to make.
I also think it frames the sketchy actions you mention as being somewhat sketchy. The Cheese-for-Child scandal and the Bopping of the Monk both happen while Alum is deliberately refusing to follow the Altruist's plan, and the murder of the antagonist (and Alum's subsequent actions) are portrayed as reasons to stop him entering heaven. Only the Ice Giant murder gets viewed as the will of the Altruist.
Anyway, I seem to have written an essay in a youtube comment, so I'll just end it here with a question that I find interesting - why did the Alum developers decide to put a palette-swap Jesus in their game? Why not actual Jesus?
And again, thank you for making great videos!
12:24 One thing that kind of bugs me is that a lot of Christians will come up to me and say the Golden Rule like they invented it.
The Golden Rule is mentioned in most (if not all) religions one way or another. I just find it funny how it's not even original to the Bible - like they only recognize it from the New Testament.
In the Tanach/Torah (Christian's Old Testament) it has the Golden Rule as well.
Now despite what you think of the Tanach or who wrote it and onward, it's believed it was written between 1446-1406BCE (if you follow NIV timelines) or 538-332 BCE (if you follow other scholarly debates.)
Leviticus 19:17-18
You shall not hate your brother in your heart; you shall reprove your fellow and do not bear a sin because of him. You shall not take revenge and you shall not bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your fellow as yourself - I am Hashem.
Jewish comments on it (like from R' Akiva, Rashi/Sifra, Ramban, etc) say the Golden Rule is pinical to Judaism.
Just a fun little rant from me, it barely has anything to do with the vudeo. I just hate it when people do the whole "Christianity made the Golden Rule!!" and all that
@Paul Nicodemus I know.
Full Throttle is the last adventure game I played or am likely to play, but I still watched this whole thing.
These games are also about orthodoxy (Alum) and orthopraxy (dropsy).
I'm not sure I agree but I would need to play them. You're correct that Alum seems to be about orthodoxy, but I think Dropsy might be more about orthopathy, not orthopraxy. Or maybe both.
I thought they were both subtle commentaries on police brutality and capitalism, but cool take. Nostalgic feelings at the end there, I was Catholic and I do miss the choir.
11:46 just a note as someone who studies Ancient Greek about how this frame pisses me off. It’s clear that the game is trying to say “to whom it was not spoken of they shall see. And they that have not heard they shall understand.” But since those are actual Ancient Greek letters, it says “to oeyom it oas not spoken oph teyeps seyall seheh. And teyeps teyat eyaoheh not eyhehard teyeps seyall understand”. Don’t fucking use Greek letters if you don’t know what they mean
i've never played dropsy, and I already love him. the gap between a creepy clown appearance, and the "peak hippie" style of innocent kindness and unjudgmental love pulls my heartstrings.
Great work! This video surprised me bc I recently replayed Dropsy precisely because it expresses so much love and understanding for people. It shows a pretty wide array of personal morality without heavy judgement, but also not without criticism. Dropsy is hopeful. And, y'know, in an era of social distancing, maybe a hugventure gives the touch-starved player the thrill they need.
I really like the juxtaposition of it with Alum. I think you found a pretty perfect split between what makes a "christ narrative" and what makes a "christian narrative."
I take that sierra fan dig personally lol
GOOD
Funny how Healthcare anxiety is a framing/inciting incident in both games. Curious.
Wow, this was really flippin' good. Best game comparison I've seen in a very long time, I think I'll pick up Dropsy.
Rewatching this after having watched the film of Jesus Christ Superstar for the first time after having been a fan of the musical for years, and that line about "Jesus the man as opposed to Jesus the Son of Good" whilst footage from the film play over it really hit home for me, because as an atheist, I find the portrayal of Jesus as this scared, frustrated fallible man is fascinating.
I'm curious about your thoughts on the apparent parallels between Dropsy and some... uh, let's say complicated disability parallels, especially as it relates to the Jesus message. It's fine if you didn't feel qualified to break that down or address that, I'm autistic myself and I'm not sure I'm qualified to break down *how* it used or tried not to use that imagery and theming. I'm sure people have written on this before I was just curious if you had any thoughts on the subject.
Yeah, I didn't get into it here, but I talked about it some when I first mentioned Dropsy in my adventure game hype list in 2015 and then in my Tumblr write up of the game itself. From interviews with Tholen, he designed Dropsy to be weird and creepy in a way you could find cute once you got to know him and has always been surprised that people read him as neurodivergent. I think that was pretty naive of him, but, with the reveal that Dropsy's an alien, it becomes pretty clear that he doesn't represent disability, and there are a number of characters in the game with actual disabilities who are treated with love and respect. Still, since the alien reveal is at the end, many people are going to read Dropsy as a symbol of disability for most of the game, and that's not so great. It really reads like that stereotypical, Forrest Gump-y, "adult disability as metaphor for childlike innocence" role that marginalized communities get to fill in movies by neurotypicals.
Anyway, agreed, it's questionable, but it feels less so when you play the game itself and figure out what it's doing. Not *fixed* exactly, but mitigated.
@@InnuendoStudios Oh. Wow, I somehow managed for forget it was you to first introduced me to dropsy. Fancy that.
I can see why he might have thought that this was an "alien" but neurotypical media does have the problem of conflating "not the norm" with "alien" or "robotic" that can sometimes result in some, uh... accidentally on the nose similarities to non-neurotypical behaviors. I know Overly Sarcastic touched on this in Red's video on tropes surrounding Robots, but if they genuinely were unaware, if naively, I can understand why they thought it was appropriate to leave it up to the end that they are an alien and not an allegory for non-neurotypical behavior.
I'm glad to see you are still showing love to adventure games. I'd planned to message you or email you or whatever-else you a message for a while about a video by A Bowl of Lentils about a missing developmental link in adventure games that fairly cleanly demonstrates what the west calls visual novels are fairly demonstrably adventure games of a Japanese developmental path of games that never left Japan. They've always been viewed as adventure games in Japan and the term simply doesn't isn't used in Japan like it is in the west (just look at the famitsu top adventure games of all times list).
I'd wanted to do a proper write up about this and the fact that I think this calls for a new term like "JADV" (a play on JRPG) should exist as a parent genre to visual novels, but I suppose this comment will do for the moment. I just figured you'd find this interesting since it deals with an entire oft-forgotten 15 years of overseas development of the genre from the same general sources (especially Mystery House). He also did a video on how a term like Visual Novel came to be used in the west despite having little if any meaning or bearing on the view of the subject in Japan.
@@InnuendoStudios When I initially made Dropsy back in 2007ish as a forum game (on Something Awful no less) sensitivity to this wasn't even a thing I'd considered. He was originally a boss sprite for a platformer I made as a teenager and I thought it'd be funny if he hugged people. He was repurposed as a frankenstein's monster-esque gentle giant. As I worked on the actual game from 2011-2015 I matured as a person and the reality of Dropsy as a potential stand in for neurodivergent folk became apparent While it was initially surprising to see such comparisons, two of my family members who'd previously been diagnosed with autism were reaching adulthood and the parallels couldn't be ignored. I am mildly neurodivergent but not to the degree that I feel comfortable to speak for folks who may see more of themselves in Dropsy. That said, conversations WERE had and changes were made. It's likely that Dropsy has problematic bits that I hadn't considered but I've had only positive feedback from the neurodivergent folk who have played so far.
Following this comment thread, thanks for the conversation.
I always thought Superman (and by extension Dropsy) looks more like Moses than Jesus. Moses was an abandoned baby sent down a river in a capsule by unknown and distant parents, they both style themselves as harbingers of Good (and not a manifestation thereof like Jesus), they both spend an inappropriate amount of time doing fuck all in the middle of nowhere (Smallville for Clark, the desert for Moses), they both approached a symbol of the divine (Kal'el's hidden capsule/Mount Horeb) where they recieve a messsage (last scion of Krypton sent to save a chosen people/ten commandments) through an unmistakably otherworldly medium (Jor'el recording/burning bush) and returned with an artifact symbolizing Truth (the S/the tablets).
The Jesus allegories (spent 30 years "figuring himself out", died and was reborn, disappearing for eons and returning at End Times simultaneously being and carrying the means of mankind's salvation) weren't added until a huge overhaul some 40-50 years later by people who never knew the creators.
Right, because the story of Jesus is ALSO inspired by the story of Moses. So it all just kinds of blends together. Originally the authors were going for Moses. Which unintentionally made the character also similar to Jesus. Which caused later writers to make him INTENTIONALLY similar to Jesus.
I'm glad your making the videos you made, but I'm glad that your sprinkling some more gaming related videos again. It what brought me to your channel, and while the alt-right stuff and movie videos are interesting in their own right, they were so concentrated together that it's been awhile since I watched anything by you. I still have your Phil Phish and what is art in my podcast list of youtube red.
Interesting video! I played Dropsy ages ago and loved it, without ever really noticing the Jesus-y vibes, though I get it now. It just felt so pure.