I bought and put together my first rifle, an aero precision m4e1 with a 16" heavy barrel, and took my mom out shooting. Shes 66 and hasnt shot a gun since she was a little girl. Walked her through the basics, and after getting the scope zeroed, 2 shots, she shot a half inch group, right off the bat. Man, the smile she had on her face the whole time at the range, and the whole ride home was priceless
I just bought a rifle, not shot since I left the military in 1984, and I took my wife wich only shot handguns (law enforcement), to make the story short, I did not get to shoot much and the joy from her was probably the same as your mother experienced.
UA-cam has single handily caused more injured game than anything before. Overnight we had self proclaimed long range hunters, thankfully this channel in a way has knocked a few chips off some peoples shoulders.
I was practicing my trigger control as hunting season was coming up last year. I completely forgot to factor the cold weather I was going to be hunting in. Shooting out to 500 yards accurately when your shivering uncontrollably is super difficult 😅
Chances are your ammo is going to shoot differently at significantly lower temps as well. You should practice and sight in during the same weather as you are hunting. You may find that your ammo of choice shoots great at 45 degrees, but shoots shotgun patterns and 2 MOA to the right at zero degrees.
Be a man's man like Chesty Puller and use your range stapler to secure those little hand warmer packets to your chest. Keep your core warm, shoot straighter.
Practice in the winter when it's cold, using gloves. You can use those thin nitrile gloves as glove liners to serve as a vapor barrier if it's windy-cold or windy-wet-cold. A cold exposed hand loses dexterity quickly in cold temperatures.
@@bobtosi9346 I've used it on really bitter cold days skiing above treeline, and on cold/wet days doing other things. Great to hear it works for you too.👍👍
I was expecting 7 obvious talking points, but this was actually full of some good information for new long-range shooters to understand. As a former military sniper and long-range shooting instructor I try and impart this information to newer long-range shooters who are seeking advice. The talking points on the shooting apps was excellent. The ballistic calculator is a formula, and as such you must input the correct information to get the correct shooting solution. Couple of examples of easy input mistakes beginners make: 1) inputting the manufacturer advertised muzzle velocity from the box without using a chrono or truing to find actual muzzle velocity for that round in your rifle. 2) using G1 ballistic coefficients for G7 bullet profiles. You can make these mistakes and shoot out to 600+ with some success, but when actual long-range shots are on the agenda it's important to actually understand the information, these guys are talking about.
Awesome post. As a rule, I value the advice of military snipers. In fact, my best book on long range shooting is the "Long Range Shooting Handbook" by Ryan Cleckner, a gun rights attorney. But his previous occupation was sniper team leader in the US Army 1st Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment for a number of tours in the GWOT.
That's some great wisdom for free, thank you. I've already seen Strelok's assumed velocity for a round isn't what my barrel may run with that round, and when I use chrono data Strelok becomes more useful & accurate. Thanks for explaining that point, and for the G1/G7 differential, which I have not tuned yet.
I know the app isn't perfect but that Hornady 4dof is damn close. Wasn't able to chrono my loads, just plugged in what the reloading data said it should be, i wasnt even 100% sure the rifle was zeroed, took it out to 550 yards and bang 1st round impact. I was blown away, was absolutely expecting my spotter to say "what are you shooting at?"
Best long range rifle I ever owned was a savage 112 in .220 swift, at 600 yards on a fairly calm day I could consistently shoot an under 3 inch 5 shot group. I lived at the time in a state where .220 swift was legal for deer, that rifle had absolutely no issue dropping them at 600 yards with the right hand loads (55 grain bullet going around 4200fps)
Where I hunt we have steel targets out to 1160 yards. My friends got into long range before I did and their advice has helped me a lot. I have an accurate rifle but have to constantly work on my breathing and trigger pull. We shoot over a chronograph to know what our fps is then plug it into the shooting app.
Great callout mentioning the Ruger American series! It took 13 months for me to finally find the one I wanted. (Had it on order at the local dealer the whole time before a gun store 3 hours away called and said they managed to get it. It's amazing to get a 0.6 moa gun for $500!
My Ruger American Hunter in .308 Win has shot many sub-MOA groups of 5, with several grades of ammunition, all commercial and none handloaded. Even with ammo it doesn't prefer it's rarely worse than 1.5 - 2.5 MOA.
I paid just under 400 for my savage axis xp in 30-06 and it shoots 1 moa with half decent ammo. Was pleasantly surprised by the gun. The scope, not so much. It fell apart after about 4-5 boxes of ammo
Reading the wind at very long range is what separates a good seasoned long range shooter from a good shooter new to long range shooting. The frustration of shots going off target and not knowing why is most often due to inexperiece in reading the wind and making the proper adjustments for it. The wind may actually change direction and or force a few different times in 500-1000 yards depending on the terain, time of day and temperature
Got that right. Canyons and deeper ravines can make a difference on wind drift respective of whats going on at your position. Steep ground also has up and down drafts from temp changes. It's all part of the shooting experience growing up in wild country.
Sadly wind isn't a constant, so groups tend to be bigger in windy conditions. Another factor is how much your target distance is affected by wind. It may be only 30%of the total range for example
Great info guys! I and my sons rifles are 0 at 400 yds. We have now qualified to shoot at a grand on the long range at our club. Your information is invaluable. Thank You!
Good stuff, thank you. When I think about these points you guys discussed, I keep thinking "the rifle doesn't shoot itself," and that's the best way to remind the folks who try buying their way to accuracy and precision at distance. So many online comments talk about the rifle being a such-and-such MOA rifle but they can't make it to do that, so it must be defective. As if they don't even think their marksmanship skills ever could be in question. As if they were, by some miracle, given to them at birth.
I was watching a really interesting interview with a long range sniper (who holds the record for longest kill, a canadian from jtf2), and he was talking about wind and how on really long shots, you can go through multiple changes in wind speed and direction on one shot and need to account for it. Was something I hadn't thought of before then, how the space between you and the target could have different conditions, and those conditions are way more important than the conditions surrounding the shooter. and for crouched shots, I've always like the deep squat with elbows on knees and feet flat on the ground. Its nothing compared to a tripod, but a hell of a lot better than most peoples crouched shot.
With me , when Im shooting long range, instead of trying to measure a miss, I hold the reticle on where I was aiming and use the turrets to move the reticle where the shot actually hit while looking through the optic. This is more intuitive than trying to measure hash marks and count shit. This works for me very well, when I can see the impact. I love my 6.5 Creedmoor btw.
You're in the mountains so I'm surprised you didn't mention the effect elevation has on the trajectory of a bullet. If you're shooting uphill OR downhill you will shoot you will shoot higher. My best friend is convinced that if you shoot uphill the bullet will drop more. My rangefinder compensates for elevation up or down.
That was cool guys! I was hoping to hear one of my favorite shooting myths, about barrel degradation over just a few rounds on like a high end custom 7mm rifle...
I was going to guess Finnish, but I digress a Viking in any other name is still a Viking 😂🤣. Beautiful country they are in. Guessing Utah or northern NM or southern Colorado?
I took my tripod hunting and took a fair amount of ribbing for it, until we verified zero as a group, and I suggested folks do it from seated or kneeling instead of prone. I got my deer pretty quick, and all of a sudden others wanted to borrow my tripod. This wasn't backcountry backpack hunting, so the extra lbs weren't an issue. It was in WY though, so being able to shoot accurately over reasonable distances was important. A good rear support is often overlooked. Good video and info. 🍻
Thankful for the message at 3:34. The 21st-century emphasis on long-range hunting is an example of matching the game to the gun, rather than the (more appropriate) reverse. And marketing to sell new rifles, of course.
@@heythere4970 It's possible to make cheap scopes work well for longer distance. Especially if you shoot in an area where there's steady light, easy contrast between target and background, and taking care to not jostle that inexpensive scope, which may lose zero easier than your wallet assumed. More money gets you clearer images in the glass, better reticles, and a sharper image at distance. The more you spend the sharper that long-distance image will be. If you shoot only at 100, 200 or 300 yds max, on a flat range, all that extra money gets a fine image which is better than you'll need most of the time. I've walked the bargain to mid-tier journey and have experienced what you can make work, versus what more money might get you. And emphasis on "might" because it's not just about specs or features on a marketing blurb. If you do most of your shooting at dawn or dusk you'll appreciate better designed (better glass, coatings, internals) and therefore more expensive scopes, because you'll have more natural light to work with when light is precious.
Just a thought, have you looked at viper flex shooting sticks, 4 poles that support both the front and back of your rifle, add the optional extra 5th leg and you have a tripod aswell plus light weight. Only thing is you might not want to go back to those tripods you use at the moment and it might make you think twice about needing to find a prone position
Awesome info. Yes, these guys have a product, but this didnt feel like an advertisement. Saying you "can buy long range" is a myth got my thumbs up. After all, fundamentals are fundamental.
About 30 years ago I bought a HS precision rifle topped with a Leopold VX III 40mm x12. Awesome rifle that cost 3k 30 years ago. Just bought a new CZ in the same .308 caliber that shoots equally as well for under 1k now. Think the precision is a lot better in the average rifle today than it was then. I'd take a average rifle with a above average scope any day, over the opposite.
I have a Ruger American that I updated to match grade. Also added a small bit of white grease to help the action. Also have a Savage 30-06 and an AR-10 Moriarity arms 6.5 CM with 20" stainless barell and a forward mount bi-posd as well as an 18 X 50 scope. I have had the Ruger out to 500 yards consistantly. The 6.5 has walked out to a touch over a mile with hot loads.
I built a rifle capable of long range hunting and realized the myth and price of the rifle very shortly after. Love the rifle but I got a pencil barrel rifle with 3x9 that shoots same handloads shortly after as that was the practical real world tool LOL. Gucci rifles are still awesome for target shooting and 2nd kinda cool factor
Just went through this over the weekend. 2 different apps 2 different solutions, ended up in the middle. Thanks for the information, I never knew about the axel form factor on 4dof
The biggest trick to long range shooting is learning how to read the wind and adjust for it. At long ranges the bullet path is above the line of sight so its not about reading the wind along the line of sight but above it.Then as you all pointed out if you miss how to make adjustments. Velocity and bullet weight makes a difference. Speed helps The less time in the wind the less time for the wind to move the bullet. The heavier the bullet the harder it is for the wind to move it. I will take my 25-06 any day over the 6.5 needsmore. 135gr bullets leaving over 3000fps in a light recoiling gun. It gets to a mile in a hurry. Now with that said I have a Thompson Contender pistol with a 15 inch 300 blackout barrel that is very accurate out to 2200 yards so far. So you dont need a supercharged round to have fun at distance. The important thing is to be safe and have fun. NDR
I upgraded my Remington 700 sps 308 in a 16" with a GRS Beserk. Milled the stock to fit a custom magazine base to accept polimer mags. The rest was also done. The stock upgrade was wow
Upgrading a gun, most important thing is the scope, I prefer Nightforce. Trigger would be aJewell. A top class barrel is much more important than the action. Buy the best barrel you can and have it chambered by a excellent gunsmith. Stock, I use McMillan or wood laminate. A bedded wood laminate stock is extremely inert. And for the action a Remington clone is best, Defiance is my choice. Top quality rings and mounts, Near or Spur.
For real "Newbies" I suggest learning to get your Daisy 880 to 100 and beyond! You'll learn how to watch for splash and how to adjust to it, learn how to use your dots on the scope for both windage and elevation, plus it's cost effective!
#2 You need a magnum cartridge is really dependent on what you’re trying to accomplish at that range. If you’re just looking to ring steel, standard cartridges are fine. However, for hunting, especially larger game like Elk, you definitely need more energy to make sure the bullet performs correctly. Energy at distance should always be a consideration for a hunting cartridge. Also, while standard cartridges are more comfortable to shoot, there’s less drop and less wind deflection with heavier and faster cartridges. In some cases, especially hunting big game at extended ranges, magnums are a better choice.
I'd like to be able to practice with my rifle to 600-800 yards, might not seem long range but it's a .375 Ruger. I want to be able to practice with various ranges so that hopefully anything within 400 yards (in Alaska) will be an ethical shot, and also have enough energy for whatever animal I'm after. Yes, I know that the purpose of this video is just long distance shooting, not hunting at those extended ranges.
Bought a Sako TRG 42 .338Lapua (bucket list gat) a few days ago after building a semi budget M110 (Zev Tech LFAR matched upper/lower, Sheilen Barrel, Kahles 318I) as a trainer for long range. Always shot alot but only at 100 -300 yards. Hoping to get more into it snd this video helped alot.
Again, great video, very enlightening and edifying. Your opinion and those of your guests were spot-on true to form. Thank you for your hard work. Stay well.
Hi Backfire, enjoyed watching this video from Poland. Good to see Oscar from GRS there too! Was wondering if you could make a video on rear bags for shooting. Feel that its something overlooked a lot especially for long range shooting. Keep up the great work Hamish
"Your gear is not the problem" is true in so many situations. Long-range shooting, miniature painting, playing an instrument... Getting good at something requires time above everything else. To quote Ian McCollum: "[The rifle] is the easiest part of the equation. You can go out and just buy this and have it. Getting the actual skills means you have to spend time and effort and practice acquiring those skills."
The best way to learn how to shoot properly is to learn consistency. Instead of buying all the gadgets, buy ammo, not the best or the newest, but the MOST you can afford. Learn to shoot the gun you have and practice a million shots. You'll be consistent and accurate.
Appleseed shoots, whether 1 day or 2 day, are a bargain for learning fundamentals, and you get to hear some history too. You can also learn to use a sling, which is a whole lot lighter than a tripod for seated or kneeling positions. It's already on your rifle - or should be. There are some very interesting cuff-style slings available now from quite a few different makers, but for PRS I don't know how useful they are if you already are tripod-based. I'm just saying a good cuff sling works damned well in seated and kneeling positions, standing position, and prone position as well. Nearly as good as a bipod. Hasty slings don't even require you to build the cuff and they are useful too. Good skills to have when you don't have a bipod or tripod or resting structure available. Some slings even let you build positions through their tensioning, working with/against structure as situations present.
QUESTION: At 15:10 one of the experts says that he is more concerned with the wind downrange toward the target than wind at the muzzle. One of the tech guys at 21rst Century that has done a lot of long range competition shooting told me the exact OPPOSITE. According to him, the affect wind has on the bullet in the first 100 yards is more significant because those affects are then felt for the remaining 500-700 yards the bullet travels before it reaches the target, whereas wind at 500 yards will only affect the bullet for the remaining 100-200 yards before it reaches the target. Who is right?? I have done a lot of shooting and reloading over the years, but I have much to learn about long range shooting in hunting situations.
Both are right. Your 21st Cent guy is right if the wind is 100% consistent for the entire flight of the projectile. This video is right because it is referencing what the wind is doing closer to the target than what you are feeling at your shooting position. I have done some long range shooting where I felt a left to right wind on my person (3 o'clock), but down range the wind was actually blowing right to left (9 o'clock) and I had to hold completely opposite from what I was feeling. Basically, you need to take in account the entire flight path of the projectile when evaluating wind.
Just bought a savage axis 2 precision today. Needed a rifle for deer and wanted to take my first dip into longer range shooting. Some great stuff in this video appreciate you guys
Im pretty happy with the 2 guns I have I have a Glock 43x and a Kel TEC sub 2k Gen 2 Glock 17 version and I'm going to be building an AR9 In SDI I'm happy about that to and thank you for the video brother
In Australia we do not have a big gun culture, but this all makes sense to me..... Same applies for Archery (which I have dabbled in) get your basics - but great gear does not make a great shooter.
The first soliloquy is pure gold. I state it slightly differently; "No gimmick will replace competence". Which may at least partially explain my affection for a good revolver. But I digress...
The most annoying shit is that even with the popularity of "budget" rifles like the Savage Axis, Ruger American, TC Compass, etc aftermarket support is limited of not completely non-existent. I have an Axis in .308 and an Axis II on 6.5CM. Both with make ragged holes if I do my part but the only true stock option is Boyd's. There's a couple chassis options but they're all from MDT.
About the "you need a magnum cartridge" myth: This is exactly why 6.5 creedmoor was created. For long range shooting without the need for magnum cartridge. Although .300 PRC has a lower wind deflection (it gives you more room for error in wind estimation). 6.5 CM was designed to come as close to magnum cartridge ballistics as it it's possible in a short action rifle (without burning barrels like crazy).
Same for just plain old 30-06 With modern ablr bullets 0.661 bc ablr at only 2600 fps is the long range holy grail in the old warhorse .it's a legit 600-700 yd big game hunting rifle nowadays with modern components And the right person behind it
6:18 I've hit steel multiple times in competition at a mile+, all with factory ammo. All of it with 6.5x55. This was before I learned to handload. You absolutely don't need to handload to shoot long range.
Hey Backfire what do you think about European Stock Ergonomics 😀 i have a Fenris and a Bifrost on 2 of my Hunting Rifles they are great for the Price the best Stocks available when it comes to Ergonomics and fit And yes the Fenris for 420€ in Germany is awesome it is there lightest Option
I'm definitely a novice at long range. My Marine Veteran father taught me "BRASS" from as young as I can remember. I'm a pistol shooter, I shoot 3-gun when I can, so I have fundamentals, and that's about it. I have several friends who are avid long-range shooters, who both helped properly set up my Rem700 in .308, and have coached me to be able to make hits at 1,000yd. I definitely can't go past about 600 on my own, but the fundamentals, plus some coaching, can get me to 1,000+. Fundamentals are key, followed closely by proper rifle setup.
My effective "long range" for hunting is 300 yards, 400 if absolutely necessary. 220gr ELD-X out of my 30-06 only drops about a foot and takes half a second to get there at over 2k ft-lb It's harder to find 400 yards of clear land for trajectory validation than making a 400 yard shot here in SE Georgia. The fardest I've had to shoot a deer here is 100.
@@timk4502 I said a foot, it's 13.6" drop at 300, I'm zeroed at 100 measured with tape, my muzzle velocity is 2598fps measured 5 yards in front of the muzzle with an optical chronograph. According to Hornady the BC of the 220gr ELD-X is 0.650 Do go over my math in case I made a mistake.
On a side note, Nevada big game lottery results just came out. Second year in a row I’m shut out. So many of my buddies got skunked. Hunting in Nevada is mostly a non hunting sport. I miss living back east where I got my buck tags at Walmart and it came with a free doe tag. And you could get extra doe tags from your county commissioner for a few extra bucks. Max of six extra doe tags. Can’t wait to retire and move to a state with better hunting.
Nice tips for long range shots. Can't deny you are shooting that far. Any tips on shooting long range where YOU are actually holding the rifle, not all the supports and stands?
@@donniesewell8185 I'd like to distinguish range in 4 different categories. 0-300 meters is point blank, 300-600 is intermediate, 600-900 is long range, 900+ is extreme.
@@jimsagubigula7337 you answered your own question. 600 plus yards. And tips for shooting that without the supports, where YOU are holding the rifle, not sticks or sandbags or leadsleds
@@donniesewell8185 Bipods exist for this exact reason. So you don't have to be carrying whole tables with you out there. Those can really help stabilize your gun. If you don't have those either, go into a prone position, one hand on the trigger, the other holding the handguard, elbow on the ground. I think this will give you the most stability, without any extra help. But honestly, if you plan to go shooting this far out in nature, I would strongly suggest you invest in a bipod. You could also get a tripod, as they are more stable, but not as flexible. I wouldn't recommend it if you plan you adjusting the weapon a lot while prone.
Great information, does the GRS Bifrost hava an aluminium bedding or is it just plastic? Minor comment: "It is about angling and staying behind the rifle" unfortunately the video clip shown at 12:59 the shooter could not be more angled if he tried.
My .02 When it comes to building out over time. Don’t. Cuz at the end you just have an expensive, inexpensive gun. The cheapest thing you will ever buy will be a “custom” action. Buy once cry once. I’ve learned this the hard way. Practice in the way you will be hunting in the field, not just on a flat range on a bench in a vise. That’s a testament to what the gun will do but not what you can do with the gun. Shoot off backpacks, fence posts, trees, rocks, in tall grass, downhill, etc etc. If this is important to you take the time to understand how everything works, don’t just pull the trigger hit a target/or don’t hit a target and think that’s good enough. I am by no means a top shot but I can tell you I’m a lot better off understanding more of the mystery of long range shooting. Than just leaving everything at face value. Also.. As it comes to the shooting apps. Understand that is a formula. Garbage in equals garbage out. And when most people are out practicing shooting it’s summer time and nice weather. A lot different circumstances when out hunting it can be upwards of 70 degrees colder in many areas. Possible 100° Understand what that gun will do in that environment.
One I would add is that if you are practicing for hunting every time you go to the range do a 200 meter sprint with your gear, then drop gear, set up the shot, and take it. Your first shot is the only one that counts and that is your effective range. Practicing a speedy set up is important, you don't get unlimited time to take the shot in real life.
Some people can eye it and just put the dot offset or just instinctively seem to know how many clicks without thinking on it much. And some might adjust all day and still not get it to where they want...
Buy the declassified, I think Army, sniper manual and work on your basics. I love this guy who have these tacticool rifles at the range who can’t hit a target at 50 yrds with a 556, and I’m nailing targets out to 700 with a home built rifle that costed a fraction of theirs. Hand loading does make a difference, but it is, at least, 80% shooter and 20% equipment.
Don't forget the 8th myth. This backfire guy actually knows what he is talking about and isn't just regurgitating what popular conclusion he has read online.
Good clip, good information. Readers; please consider doing some research on George Farr at Camp Perry in 1921 before you get all wound up in expensive gear.....
The difference between the 300prc and 6.5 Creedmoor at 1500yds is the energy delivered onto the target. 6.5CM is a great coyote round and great paper puncher but sucks for killing big game at even moderate ranges.
I bought and put together my first rifle, an aero precision m4e1 with a 16" heavy barrel, and took my mom out shooting. Shes 66 and hasnt shot a gun since she was a little girl.
Walked her through the basics, and after getting the scope zeroed, 2 shots, she shot a half inch group, right off the bat.
Man, the smile she had on her face the whole time at the range, and the whole ride home was priceless
Now that's skill! I'm glad you were able to take your mom shooting!
I just bought a rifle, not shot since I left the military in 1984, and I took my wife wich only shot handguns (law enforcement), to make the story short, I did not get to shoot much and the joy from her was probably the same as your mother experienced.
@@tootallno nice! Yeah I hadn't shot since I got out in 2007. It feels good to pass that knowledge along
god bless you both
@@1glopz ???
UA-cam has single handily caused more injured game than anything before. Overnight we had self proclaimed long range hunters, thankfully this channel in a way has knocked a few chips off some peoples shoulders.
I'm not a hunter or even a shooter, but I found this extremely engaging without a single pause or jump-ahead because I learned stuff. Well done, guys.
I'm not a hunter or a even a shooter or even human or even have eyes but I'm gay
I was practicing my trigger control as hunting season was coming up last year. I completely forgot to factor the cold weather I was going to be hunting in. Shooting out to 500 yards accurately when your shivering uncontrollably is super difficult 😅
Chances are your ammo is going to shoot differently at significantly lower temps as well. You should practice and sight in during the same weather as you are hunting. You may find that your ammo of choice shoots great at 45 degrees, but shoots shotgun patterns and 2 MOA to the right at zero degrees.
Be a man's man like Chesty Puller and use your range stapler to secure those little hand warmer packets to your chest. Keep your core warm, shoot straighter.
Practice in the winter when it's cold, using gloves. You can use those thin nitrile gloves as glove liners to serve as a vapor barrier if it's windy-cold or windy-wet-cold. A cold exposed hand loses dexterity quickly in cold temperatures.
@@seanoneil277I actually use your nitrile glove idea at work 🤜🤛
@@bobtosi9346 I've used it on really bitter cold days skiing above treeline, and on cold/wet days doing other things. Great to hear it works for you too.👍👍
I was expecting 7 obvious talking points, but this was actually full of some good information for new long-range shooters to understand. As a former military sniper and long-range shooting instructor I try and impart this information to newer long-range shooters who are seeking advice. The talking points on the shooting apps was excellent. The ballistic calculator is a formula, and as such you must input the correct information to get the correct shooting solution. Couple of examples of easy input mistakes beginners make: 1) inputting the manufacturer advertised muzzle velocity from the box without using a chrono or truing to find actual muzzle velocity for that round in your rifle. 2) using G1 ballistic coefficients for G7 bullet profiles.
You can make these mistakes and shoot out to 600+ with some success, but when actual long-range shots are on the agenda it's important to actually understand the information, these guys are talking about.
Awesome post. As a rule, I value the advice of military snipers. In fact, my best book on long range shooting is the "Long Range Shooting Handbook" by Ryan Cleckner, a gun rights attorney. But his previous occupation was sniper team leader in the US Army 1st Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment for a number of tours in the GWOT.
That's some great wisdom for free, thank you. I've already seen Strelok's assumed velocity for a round isn't what my barrel may run with that round, and when I use chrono data Strelok becomes more useful & accurate. Thanks for explaining that point, and for the G1/G7 differential, which I have not tuned yet.
I know the app isn't perfect but that Hornady 4dof is damn close. Wasn't able to chrono my loads, just plugged in what the reloading data said it should be, i wasnt even 100% sure the rifle was zeroed, took it out to 550 yards and bang 1st round impact. I was blown away, was absolutely expecting my spotter to say "what are you shooting at?"
Best long range rifle I ever owned was a savage 112 in .220 swift, at 600 yards on a fairly calm day I could consistently shoot an under 3 inch 5 shot group. I lived at the time in a state where .220 swift was legal for deer, that rifle had absolutely no issue dropping them at 600 yards with the right hand loads (55 grain bullet going around 4200fps)
Where I hunt we have steel targets out to 1160 yards. My friends got into long range before I did and their advice has helped me a lot. I have an accurate rifle but have to constantly work on my breathing and trigger pull. We shoot over a chronograph to know what our fps is then plug it into the shooting app.
Or how but try “hunting” and put in a stock.. next time try getting under 400
Great callout mentioning the Ruger American series!
It took 13 months for me to finally find the one I wanted. (Had it on order at the local dealer the whole time before a gun store 3 hours away called and said they managed to get it.
It's amazing to get a 0.6 moa gun for $500!
My Ruger American Hunter in .308 Win has shot many sub-MOA groups of 5, with several grades of ammunition, all commercial and none handloaded. Even with ammo it doesn't prefer it's rarely worse than 1.5 - 2.5 MOA.
I paid just under 400 for my savage axis xp in 30-06 and it shoots 1 moa with half decent ammo. Was pleasantly surprised by the gun. The scope, not so much. It fell apart after about 4-5 boxes of ammo
@@robertpenney001 Bummer about the scope, look for SWFA SS scopes for durability at lower prices.
Reading the wind at very long range is what separates a good seasoned long range shooter from a good shooter new to long range shooting. The frustration of shots going off target and not knowing why is most often due to inexperiece in reading the wind and making the proper adjustments for it. The wind may actually change direction and or force a few different times in 500-1000 yards depending on the terain, time of day and temperature
Got that right. Canyons and deeper ravines can make a difference on wind drift respective of whats going on at your position. Steep ground also has up and down drafts from temp changes. It's all part of the shooting experience growing up in wild country.
Sadly wind isn't a constant, so groups tend to be bigger in windy conditions. Another factor is how much your target distance is affected by wind. It may be only 30%of the total range for example
Element optics are a very underrated scope manufacturer. Great scopes for the price point.
Great info guys! I and my sons rifles are 0 at 400 yds. We have now qualified to shoot at a grand on the long range at our club. Your information is invaluable. Thank You!
Good stuff, thank you. When I think about these points you guys discussed, I keep thinking "the rifle doesn't shoot itself," and that's the best way to remind the folks who try buying their way to accuracy and precision at distance. So many online comments talk about the rifle being a such-and-such MOA rifle but they can't make it to do that, so it must be defective. As if they don't even think their marksmanship skills ever could be in question. As if they were, by some miracle, given to them at birth.
I was watching a really interesting interview with a long range sniper (who holds the record for longest kill, a canadian from jtf2), and he was talking about wind and how on really long shots, you can go through multiple changes in wind speed and direction on one shot and need to account for it. Was something I hadn't thought of before then, how the space between you and the target could have different conditions, and those conditions are way more important than the conditions surrounding the shooter. and for crouched shots, I've always like the deep squat with elbows on knees and feet flat on the ground. Its nothing compared to a tripod, but a hell of a lot better than most peoples crouched shot.
With me , when Im shooting long range, instead of trying to measure a miss, I hold the reticle on where I was aiming and use the turrets to move the reticle where the shot actually hit while looking through the optic. This is more intuitive than trying to measure hash marks and count shit. This works for me very well, when I can see the impact. I love my 6.5 Creedmoor btw.
That's how I sight in my thermal
You're in the mountains so I'm surprised you didn't mention the effect elevation has on the trajectory of a bullet. If you're shooting uphill OR downhill you will shoot you will shoot higher. My best friend is convinced that if you shoot uphill the bullet will drop more. My rangefinder compensates for elevation up or down.
Great point, I've always wondered
That was cool guys!
I was hoping to hear one of my favorite shooting myths, about barrel degradation over just a few rounds on like a high end custom 7mm rifle...
Love to see GRS getting love outside of Norway 🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴
I was going to guess Finnish, but I digress a Viking in any other name is still a Viking 😂🤣. Beautiful country they are in. Guessing Utah or northern NM or southern Colorado?
@@Boomhower89
19:51
I swear, no one knows about them; but they’re incredible!
@@Jeff.78 👍🏼 beautiful area. Thank you
@@JohnnyWebHead theytthey're pretty popular in Europe.
I took my tripod hunting and took a fair amount of ribbing for it, until we verified zero as a group, and I suggested folks do it from seated or kneeling instead of prone. I got my deer pretty quick, and all of a sudden others wanted to borrow my tripod. This wasn't backcountry backpack hunting, so the extra lbs weren't an issue. It was in WY though, so being able to shoot accurately over reasonable distances was important. A good rear support is often overlooked. Good video and info. 🍻
When I was selling guns, my advice was ALWAYS, the only accessory you really ever need is MORE AMMO on the range!
Anyone who says they have enough is a liar haha!!
I need a new gun.
What would you want?
Just one?
About 14 at least
Literally telling myself this before I clicked on this video, then I see your comment. Cheers
Fact
Thankful for the message at 3:34. The 21st-century emphasis on long-range hunting is an example of matching the game to the gun, rather than the (more appropriate) reverse. And marketing to sell new rifles, of course.
"You can't buy long range."
*A few moments later...*
"This is like $700?"
"It's really affordable."
My neighbor spent more on his scope than I spent on rifle and scope combined.
Long range gets expensive. $700 is a budget scope. Still better than dropping $4k on a budget night vision set up. Or $6k on a budget thermal clip on.
@@heythere4970 anything less than 500-700 is a scope I would have to heavily test to have any trust in for a real hunt.
@@heythere4970 It's possible to make cheap scopes work well for longer distance. Especially if you shoot in an area where there's steady light, easy contrast between target and background, and taking care to not jostle that inexpensive scope, which may lose zero easier than your wallet assumed. More money gets you clearer images in the glass, better reticles, and a sharper image at distance. The more you spend the sharper that long-distance image will be.
If you shoot only at 100, 200 or 300 yds max, on a flat range, all that extra money gets a fine image which is better than you'll need most of the time. I've walked the bargain to mid-tier journey and have experienced what you can make work, versus what more money might get you. And emphasis on "might" because it's not just about specs or features on a marketing blurb.
If you do most of your shooting at dawn or dusk you'll appreciate better designed (better glass, coatings, internals) and therefore more expensive scopes, because you'll have more natural light to work with when light is precious.
Just a thought, have you looked at viper flex shooting sticks, 4 poles that support both the front and back of your rifle, add the optional extra 5th leg and you have a tripod aswell plus light weight. Only thing is you might not want to go back to those tripods you use at the moment and it might make you think twice about needing to find a prone position
Awesome info. Yes, these guys have a product, but this didnt feel like an advertisement. Saying you "can buy long range" is a myth got my thumbs up. After all, fundamentals are fundamental.
Great video! This is one I'll be watching multiple times, it is one of those where you learn a little bit more each time you view.
Jim that looked like a good time learning from those two. The one thing I took away from this conversation is. I need a new stock!
About 30 years ago I bought a HS precision rifle topped with a Leopold VX III 40mm x12. Awesome rifle that cost 3k 30 years ago. Just bought a new CZ in the same .308 caliber that shoots equally as well for under 1k now. Think the precision is a lot better in the average rifle today than it was then. I'd take a average rifle with a above average scope any day, over the opposite.
amazing points, learn so much from you guys, always get value information in your channel, thanks for sharing, cheers
I have a Ruger American that I updated to match grade. Also added a small bit of white grease to help the action. Also have a Savage 30-06 and an AR-10 Moriarity arms 6.5 CM with 20" stainless barell and a forward mount bi-posd as well as an 18 X 50 scope. I have had the Ruger out to 500 yards consistantly. The 6.5 has walked out to a touch over a mile with hot loads.
I just started trying out long range and it is awesome. Thanks for the educational video.
I built a rifle capable of long range hunting and realized the myth and price of the rifle very shortly after. Love the rifle but I got a pencil barrel rifle with 3x9 that shoots same handloads shortly after as that was the practical real world tool LOL.
Gucci rifles are still awesome for target shooting and 2nd kinda cool factor
That was extremely informative and I appreciate you and the other 2 guests with answering the questions that you had. Love the videos !!!!!
Just went through this over the weekend. 2 different apps 2 different solutions, ended up in the middle. Thanks for the information, I never knew about the axel form factor on 4dof
Very informative with great content. Thanks for putting that out there.
Wholly agree with the Tikka action! When you compare off the self bolt guns the Tikka is very smooth and the adjustable trigger is impossible to beat.
The biggest trick to long range shooting is learning how to read the wind and adjust for it. At long ranges the bullet path is above the line of sight so its not about reading the wind along the line of sight but above it.Then as you all pointed out if you miss how to make adjustments. Velocity and bullet weight makes a difference. Speed helps The less time in the wind the less time for the wind to move the bullet. The heavier the bullet the harder it is for the wind to move it. I will take my 25-06 any day over the 6.5 needsmore. 135gr bullets leaving over 3000fps in a light recoiling gun. It gets to a mile in a hurry. Now with that said I have a Thompson Contender pistol with a 15 inch 300 blackout barrel that is very accurate out to 2200 yards so far. So you dont need a supercharged round to have fun at distance. The important thing is to be safe and have fun.
NDR
I upgraded my Remington 700 sps 308 in a 16" with a GRS Beserk. Milled the stock to fit a custom magazine base to accept polimer mags. The rest was also done. The stock upgrade was wow
Upgrading a gun, most important thing is the scope, I prefer Nightforce.
Trigger would be aJewell.
A top class barrel is much more important than the action. Buy the best barrel you can and have it chambered by a excellent gunsmith.
Stock, I use McMillan or wood laminate. A bedded wood laminate stock is extremely inert.
And for the action a Remington clone is best, Defiance is my choice.
Top quality rings and mounts, Near or Spur.
For real "Newbies" I suggest learning to get your Daisy 880 to 100 and beyond! You'll learn how to watch for splash and how to adjust to it, learn how to use your dots on the scope for both windage and elevation, plus it's cost effective!
#2 You need a magnum cartridge is really dependent on what you’re trying to accomplish at that range. If you’re just looking to ring steel, standard cartridges are fine. However, for hunting, especially larger game like Elk, you definitely need more energy to make sure the bullet performs correctly. Energy at distance should always be a consideration for a hunting cartridge. Also, while standard cartridges are more comfortable to shoot, there’s less drop and less wind deflection with heavier and faster cartridges. In some cases, especially hunting big game at extended ranges, magnums are a better choice.
Great point
I'd like to be able to practice with my rifle to 600-800 yards, might not seem long range but it's a .375 Ruger. I want to be able to practice with various ranges so that hopefully anything within 400 yards (in Alaska) will be an ethical shot, and also have enough energy for whatever animal I'm after.
Yes, I know that the purpose of this video is just long distance shooting, not hunting at those extended ranges.
I learned many years ago that shooting 5-600 yds in varying conditions with a good field rest makes shots
Bought a Sako TRG 42 .338Lapua (bucket list gat) a few days ago after building a semi budget M110 (Zev Tech LFAR matched upper/lower, Sheilen Barrel, Kahles 318I) as a trainer for long range. Always shot alot but only at 100 -300 yards. Hoping to get more into it snd this video helped alot.
More videos like this one!
Thank you.
I got a Seekins Precision HIT for my first bolt gun. This video helps a lot since I've never dove into long range shooting before.
Again, great video, very enlightening and edifying. Your opinion and those of your guests were spot-on true to form. Thank you for your hard work. Stay well.
Hi Backfire, enjoyed watching this video from Poland. Good to see Oscar from GRS there too! Was wondering if you could make a video on rear bags for shooting. Feel that its something overlooked a lot especially for long range shooting. Keep up the great work Hamish
"Your gear is not the problem" is true in so many situations. Long-range shooting, miniature painting, playing an instrument...
Getting good at something requires time above everything else.
To quote Ian McCollum: "[The rifle] is the easiest part of the equation. You can go out and just buy this and have it. Getting the actual skills means you have to spend time and effort and practice acquiring those skills."
Great video Jim! Lots of great info! Love those stocks!!!
Great video, Jim. Thank you!
BRASS, learned that in the Marine Corps 40+ years ago. Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sights, Squeeze... Great stuff happens downrange. :)
Great topic and informative
In other words, just because you have Tang drink mix in your cupboard, that doesn't make you an astronaut...
Got it!
😂🤣😂
The best way to learn how to shoot properly is to learn consistency. Instead of buying all the gadgets, buy ammo, not the best or the newest, but the MOST you can afford. Learn to shoot the gun you have and practice a million shots. You'll be consistent and accurate.
Appleseed shoots, whether 1 day or 2 day, are a bargain for learning fundamentals, and you get to hear some history too. You can also learn to use a sling, which is a whole lot lighter than a tripod for seated or kneeling positions. It's already on your rifle - or should be.
There are some very interesting cuff-style slings available now from quite a few different makers, but for PRS I don't know how useful they are if you already are tripod-based. I'm just saying a good cuff sling works damned well in seated and kneeling positions, standing position, and prone position as well. Nearly as good as a bipod. Hasty slings don't even require you to build the cuff and they are useful too. Good skills to have when you don't have a bipod or tripod or resting structure available. Some slings even let you build positions through their tensioning, working with/against structure as situations present.
Excellent advice as always thank you.
QUESTION: At 15:10 one of the experts says that he is more concerned with the wind downrange toward the target than wind at the muzzle. One of the tech guys at 21rst Century that has done a lot of long range competition shooting told me the exact OPPOSITE. According to him, the affect wind has on the bullet in the first 100 yards is more significant because those affects are then felt for the remaining 500-700 yards the bullet travels before it reaches the target, whereas wind at 500 yards will only affect the bullet for the remaining 100-200 yards before it reaches the target. Who is right?? I have done a lot of shooting and reloading over the years, but I have much to learn about long range shooting in hunting situations.
Both are right. Your 21st Cent guy is right if the wind is 100% consistent for the entire flight of the projectile. This video is right because it is referencing what the wind is doing closer to the target than what you are feeling at your shooting position. I have done some long range shooting where I felt a left to right wind on my person (3 o'clock), but down range the wind was actually blowing right to left (9 o'clock) and I had to hold completely opposite from what I was feeling. Basically, you need to take in account the entire flight path of the projectile when evaluating wind.
@@gamelord1000 Okay. That helps to clear that up. Thanks.
Just bought a savage axis 2 precision today. Needed a rifle for deer and wanted to take my first dip into longer range shooting. Some great stuff in this video appreciate you guys
Im pretty happy with the 2 guns I have I have a Glock 43x and a Kel TEC sub 2k Gen 2 Glock 17 version and I'm going to be building an AR9 In SDI I'm happy about that to and thank you for the video brother
As I was using my new rangefinder to measure my manhood length I realized that I didn't have enough credit card debt to be a good shooter.
Bog pod makes a tripod that I use for glassing and then you can switch the head to a rifle rest the old 2 for 1
In Australia we do not have a big gun culture, but this all makes sense to me..... Same applies for Archery (which I have dabbled in) get your basics - but great gear does not make a great shooter.
The first soliloquy is pure gold. I state it slightly differently; "No gimmick will replace competence". Which may at least partially explain my affection for a good revolver. But I digress...
What kind of tripod is that he was using in the part where he was sitting on the ground talking about shooting position?
The most annoying shit is that even with the popularity of "budget" rifles like the Savage Axis, Ruger American, TC Compass, etc aftermarket support is limited of not completely non-existent.
I have an Axis in .308 and an Axis II on 6.5CM. Both with make ragged holes if I do my part but the only true stock option is Boyd's. There's a couple chassis options but they're all from MDT.
About the "you need a magnum cartridge" myth:
This is exactly why 6.5 creedmoor was created. For long range shooting without the need for magnum cartridge. Although .300 PRC has a lower wind deflection (it gives you more room for error in wind estimation). 6.5 CM was designed to come as close to magnum cartridge ballistics as it it's possible in a short action rifle (without burning barrels like crazy).
Same for just plain old 30-06
With modern ablr bullets
0.661 bc ablr at only 2600 fps is the long range holy grail in the old warhorse .it's a legit 600-700 yd big game hunting rifle nowadays with modern components
And the right person behind it
Have you ever reviewed an Allterra rifle? Made in Boise Idaho. I hear they are incredible but was seeing your opinion
I can almost always call bullshit on SOMETHING in most shooting videos but, not this one. Well done gentlemen!
The shooting positions are for sure solid advice
Good video. Enjoyed it. Had to real myself in when I heard 1500 yard and a creedmore but realized you guys were saying shooting not hunting.
6:18 I've hit steel multiple times in competition at a mile+, all with factory ammo. All of it with 6.5x55. This was before I learned to handload. You absolutely don't need to handload to shoot long range.
Hey Backfire what do you think about European Stock Ergonomics 😀 i have a Fenris and a Bifrost on 2 of my Hunting Rifles they are great for the Price the best Stocks available when it comes to Ergonomics and fit
And yes the Fenris for 420€ in Germany is awesome it is there lightest Option
great video, as always! Now i realized that I was missing a tripod in my equipment 😂
I'm definitely a novice at long range. My Marine Veteran father taught me "BRASS" from as young as I can remember. I'm a pistol shooter, I shoot 3-gun when I can, so I have fundamentals, and that's about it. I have several friends who are avid long-range shooters, who both helped properly set up my Rem700 in .308, and have coached me to be able to make hits at 1,000yd. I definitely can't go past about 600 on my own, but the fundamentals, plus some coaching, can get me to 1,000+. Fundamentals are key, followed closely by proper rifle setup.
Big hug from Brazil.
Makes perfect sense I agree 100% thank you very much. I like the firearm you chose I might go with a POF 308 though .
My effective "long range" for hunting is 300 yards, 400 if absolutely necessary.
220gr ELD-X out of my 30-06 only drops about a foot and takes half a second to get there at over 2k ft-lb It's harder to find 400 yards of clear land for trajectory validation than making a 400 yard shot here in SE Georgia.
The fardest I've had to shoot a deer here is 100.
220gr only drops 12" at 300 yards...? 🤔
At what yardage are you zeroed at?
@@timk4502 I said a foot, it's 13.6" drop at 300, I'm zeroed at 100 measured with tape, my muzzle velocity is 2598fps measured 5 yards in front of the muzzle with an optical chronograph.
According to Hornady the BC of the 220gr ELD-X is 0.650
Do go over my math in case I made a mistake.
My first hunting rifle was a Mosin. Didn’t need a new gun but sometimes it’s nice to update
I’ve been there on this ranch where you filmed this. Huge hotel like cabin there. Up by Stonewall Colorado. I would like to take one of his classes!
My goal is not to shoot out to 1500 yards but constantly making 500 yards with all of my rifles!
16:32 and here I thought this was a family friendly channel 😂
I would have thought trigger stock then barrel. On the upgrades but dude knows way more than I
On a side note, Nevada big game lottery results just came out. Second year in a row I’m shut out. So many of my buddies got skunked. Hunting in Nevada is mostly a non hunting sport. I miss living back east where I got my buck tags at Walmart and it came with a free doe tag. And you could get extra doe tags from your county commissioner for a few extra bucks. Max of six extra doe tags.
Can’t wait to retire and move to a state with better hunting.
Here in TN you can harvest 3 does a day and 2 bucks per year.
Great information
Nice tips for long range shots.
Can't deny you are shooting that far.
Any tips on shooting long range where YOU are actually holding the rifle, not all the supports and stands?
How far are you talking?
@@jimsagubigula7337
What would you consider a long range shot?
@@donniesewell8185 I'd like to distinguish range in 4 different categories. 0-300 meters is point blank, 300-600 is intermediate, 600-900 is long range, 900+ is extreme.
@@jimsagubigula7337 you answered your own question. 600 plus yards.
And tips for shooting that without the supports, where YOU are holding the rifle, not sticks or sandbags or leadsleds
@@donniesewell8185 Bipods exist for this exact reason. So you don't have to be carrying whole tables with you out there. Those can really help stabilize your gun. If you don't have those either, go into a prone position, one hand on the trigger, the other holding the handguard, elbow on the ground. I think this will give you the most stability, without any extra help. But honestly, if you plan to go shooting this far out in nature, I would strongly suggest you invest in a bipod. You could also get a tripod, as they are more stable, but not as flexible. I wouldn't recommend it if you plan you adjusting the weapon a lot while prone.
Great information, does the GRS Bifrost hava an aluminium bedding or is it just plastic? Minor comment: "It is about angling and staying behind the rifle" unfortunately the video clip shown at 12:59 the shooter could not be more angled if he tried.
Going to do some long range 22 and have options, but I have an old 64-B Anschutz Silhouette rifle I’m considering testing.
Factory ammo in SA is very expensive so hand loading will enable you to shoot more
My .02
When it comes to building out over time. Don’t. Cuz at the end you just have an expensive, inexpensive gun. The cheapest thing you will ever buy will be a “custom” action. Buy once cry once. I’ve learned this the hard way.
Practice in the way you will be hunting in the field, not just on a flat range on a bench in a vise. That’s a testament to what the gun will do but not what you can do with the gun. Shoot off backpacks, fence posts, trees, rocks, in tall grass, downhill, etc etc. If this is important to you take the time to understand how everything works, don’t just pull the trigger hit a target/or don’t hit a target and think that’s good enough.
I am by no means a top shot but I can tell you I’m a lot better off understanding more of the mystery of long range shooting. Than just leaving everything at face value.
Also.. As it comes to the shooting apps. Understand that is a formula. Garbage in equals garbage out. And when most people are out practicing shooting it’s summer time and nice weather. A lot different circumstances when out hunting it can be upwards of 70 degrees colder in many areas. Possible 100° Understand what that gun will do in that environment.
Man how did the old timers do it with a 30-06 and 3-9.. they knew their rifles
Yup
They werent shooting as far as we are today though
What was the brand name of those stocks especially the one? You said you can get your hand right down in.
It is a balancing act between skills, equipment, and practiced knowledge.
One I would add is that if you are practicing for hunting every time you go to the range do a 200 meter sprint with your gear, then drop gear, set up the shot, and take it. Your first shot is the only one that counts and that is your effective range. Practicing a speedy set up is important, you don't get unlimited time to take the shot in real life.
If I took anything out of this video, it’s that I definitely need a new gun! 😂
Some people can eye it and just put the dot offset or just instinctively seem to know how many clicks without thinking on it much. And some might adjust all day and still not get it to where they want...
You can eye it up to 300-400 meters max. Above that, you must do math
Axial form factor - the name of the hidden gremlin you’ve been manually compensating and fighting till Backfire took you to UA-cam university
Buy the declassified, I think Army, sniper manual and work on your basics. I love this guy who have these tacticool rifles at the range who can’t hit a target at 50 yrds with a 556, and I’m nailing targets out to 700 with a home built rifle that costed a fraction of theirs. Hand loading does make a difference, but it is, at least, 80% shooter and 20% equipment.
Don't forget the 8th myth. This backfire guy actually knows what he is talking about and isn't just regurgitating what popular conclusion he has read online.
Good clip, good information. Readers; please consider doing some research on George Farr at Camp Perry in 1921 before you get all wound up in expensive gear.....
Great overview!!!
The difference between the 300prc and 6.5 Creedmoor at 1500yds is the energy delivered onto the target. 6.5CM is a great coyote round and great paper puncher but sucks for killing big game at even moderate ranges.