We're DONE With These Michael Jordan MYTHS
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- The Panel discuss Michael Jordan and the myths being spread on the internet about his game.
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the last two times Jordan team was eliminated in the playoffs he came back and swept them the following year then proceed to three peat that's goat shit
He didn’t do that when he got swept by the Celtics twice
@@josephramirez2435and Bron didn't win every time he went to the finals and lost. You're saying nothing here lmao. So if Jordan did beat them you would've said he was the goat? That's all it would've taken?
I never thought of it like that, but that is crazy 🐐💯
@@josephramirez2435When Jordan returned to the Celtics, they were no longer good playoff contenders. They got eliminated before facing Jordan in the playoffs.
Jordan swept Pistons who beat Celtics in 1991
@@josephramirez2435
When he got swept by the Celtics he was going against five hall famers, context.
going from he would do alright to he would average 50 shows how flawed this man logic is.
Then he said Dam was mediocre, this old man is just talking. Dam would beat his ass and anyone he trains ass too.
They've embellished many peoples careers, but MJs story has been built to be something of lore
Jordan is the new Babe Ruth. It's wild because I saw his whole career so hearing people either glazing or dismissing what he did is crazy.
😂😂😂
@@LembeckIsStayingthing is, Jordan averaged 37 points a game during the 1980s. Or 36 points a game in his first 6 playoffs.
Its impossible not to get people hyped. Kobe had one 35 points per game season and that was the most hyped thing at the time.
Imagine how people felt during the 1980s when MJ had that performance repeatedly. People are going to be hyped or glaze
@@sumnahlennon5449well when kobe averaged 35 the average score in nba was 97. When mj did it the average score was 108,110. So kobe seasn had the right be hyped that hard.
@@esleyb7968So we know for a fact that Kobe is guaranteed to average 40 in today's game. For Jordan, that goes for NBA playoffs
@@sumnahlennon5449Jordan is 50.5% for career as a jumpshooter
Kobe is at 44%. Jordan was a far superior player.
pure ignorance this guy didn’t watch Jordan
did you?
@@caution934 sure did
@@beazy7751 i watched him shoot airballs so as much as u can watch the highlights u can also watch the lowlights
are you 45 did you see the 80s
@@TakablePond Every single Jordan game from 1989 to current is available online
The whole convo is flawed. You guys need to stop comparing eras. It’s about what you did in your era when everyone had the same resources as you. If you put Jordan in todays era, you would have to give him todays modern nutrition, modern training, modern recovery, modern sneakers etc. This why I’m tired of people diminishing him to uplift lebron. There’s no excuses for lebron, he’s had the same resources and access to modern training as everyone else so there’s no excuses. In order to surpass someone in a previous era you have to do what they did or more in your own perspective era where the playing field is equal. Because if that’s the case 30 years from now people will say the competition that kd Steph and bron played is trash. It’s a never ending cycle
well dude what do you expect? oldheads are the one to always start the comparing and talking down stuff first
@@harp1288 not true, I see everyone doing it old, young in between. I don’t like either side doing it. And if people are going to compare it can’t be oh curry and lebron would have gotten shut down in the 90s or oh Jordan and Clyde never faced big guards and would be average now. All of it is dumb. If you’re going to compare it has to be accomplishments , eye test, peak, total dominance in there perspective era and then see if the other person did the same or surpassed that in the era they played in it’s pretty simple. I hate all the hypothetical from both sides
@@Peakperformancetj oh no, the oldheads are 100 percent the first to star the “this era ain’t as good as mine” talk because of jealousy of their era looking less and less skilled as players evolve
@@Peakperformancetj and curry and lebron would thrive in the 90s it’s all on film to prove it
@@harp1288 I get it and understand you it’s dumb, but at the end of the day the whole skilled thing is stupid, that’s how they played different technology different rules entirely different game. Todays player played in the modern game. It’s about you dominating your perspective era where everyone has the same resources so the more skilled era isn’t an excuse.
The 50s said that about the 30s the 70s about the 50s the 90s about the 70s the 2010s about the 90s , it’s a never ending cycle. It’s about GID(get it done) do what you need to do in your own era that’s it
When you score as efficiently as Michael Jordan, the team will allow Jordan to shoot 28 shots a game. James Harden and Kobe were shooting 45% and lower. Jordan would be shooting 52+%... missing less shots is always better for the team and will allow less fast breaks
harden kobe playing in a zone era 90s iso fits both legends game
@@TakablePondJordan at age 40 had little speed and he still averaged 44%. The same as career average as Kobe.
So yes, a young Jordan would logically average 52% field goals or more. Scaling from Wizards MJ
@@TakablePondJames Harden's game relies on baiting fouls. When refs stopped calling fouls Harden struggled. Zone has nothing to do with anything
@@TakablePondname the teams playing primarily zone
@@sumnahlennon5449refs not calling bait fouls is not why harden struggled. THE MAN IS 35 YEARS OLD, he’s not the same player he use to be
He averaged 37 one season with hand checking.... What are we talking about?? And if he played in this era why wouldn't he shoot threes?
Cuz he’s bad at shooting 3’s?? It’s not that hard lol. There’s tons of players that grew up with shooting and can’t shoot…
@@ecoblitz3655 I said if he played in this era meaning he grew up playing the style they play now...
Jordan said he didn't want to shoot threes because it would cause him to settle for them too much.
Idk if the era would change his mindset
@@ecoblitz3655definitely not bad. It's not what he relies on or would want to base his game off of. He's an inside and mid range scorer but again to outright describe his 3 ball as "bad" is a reach.
@@MiraS24 I'm aware. That also doesn't mean he CAN'T shoot them, he CHOSE NOT to. But the coaching is different now, the style of play on the playgrounds and gym is different now. Pretty sure that would have an effect on his style of play and mindset. I understand what you mean though.
THE GOAT is so ahead of everyone else that the only way they can bring him down is going off hypotheticals and DELUSION. The man was so damn great that you can't knock him based on REALITY. Let that sink in.
Right!! 💯🤦🏽♂️🤣
@@jamesprez7296 they do the same with all the greats…
All facts.. It is hilarious.
well said...they trying everything and it's not working. They sound foolish 🤣🤣
@@Classicbasketballdvds Right!! 💯🤦🏽♂️🤣
Shai average 30 without shooting alot of 3s 🤦🏾♂️
Still shoots a lot of free throws.
@@richforeverleaks3114 now imagine Shai being the most athletic player in the league
@@getdown7799 why? You can imagine everyone else being the most athletic in the league 🤷🏾♂️
@@richforeverleaks3114 ok so its all hypotheticals and opinions than
@@richforeverleaks3114And yes Jordan will shoot a lot of freethrows
If Kawhi could get off in todays era and be dominant why can’t jordan
Kawhii has 1 dominant playoff run.
@@ubadman1 Kawhi is injured
@@ubadman1kawhi has multiple dominant playoff runs that were cut short by injuries pls stop
Exactly , Kawhi plays like a less athletic 2nd 3peat Jordan
@@trejay2387 Jordan isn’t as good as kawhi on defense not even close. Plus Jordan’s defense would get nerfed so it would be even worse. Also Jordan is not a great 3 point shooter like kawhi. He shoots 32% and that was with a shortened 3 point line. Jordan’s offense would be closer to demar derozan but better
Shai has avr 30 the last two seasons and he’s basically a less athletic jordan with better handles.Jordan will avr 30 any era
shai all nba talent he should avg 30
I mean i would agree jordan can go left, we've seen plenty of times, but Isaiah Thomas stated that Jordan's weak point was that they made him go left, because he was more inefficient from that side then he goes right, it's a simple breakdown.
that was young jordan, peak jordan could literally do it all
Thats literally true for almost every player in history lmao
People are too lazy to spend 5 minutes of their time and see that mj clearly had a preference of hand and did not like going left over the right. It's a simple weakness that every basketball player has because theyre not gods. MJsexuals will act that not elevating him to that "Black Jesus" level is blasphemy and driven by Bron fans who cant stand somebody being better.
almost everyone has a hand you would rather force them to
like every other player
MJ shot at least 40% from three in his first three finals which precedes the shortened 3 pt line.
@@lamontewilliams3011 Finals is a small sample size that's like giannis shot 35% from three in a single series
@@ball4life27 No argument there. 89-90: 37%, 90-91: %32%, 91-92: 27%, 92-93: 35%, 94-95: 50%, 95-96: 43%, 96-97: 37%, 97-98: 24%. That is a large sample size. Note that 98 was probably Jordan's worst shooting year as he was getting older and a finger on his shooting hang appeared to be bent, broken and mangled. But my point is the three was not the weakness for Jordan that people make it out to be. Take note of Jordan's three point percentage prior to the 94-95 season. Jordan was an average 3 point shooter and above average in the finals during the first three peat.
@@lamontewilliams3011 Line was reduce from 94-97🤣 In the real line he shot 29% on 1 attempt per game
@@ball4life27he proof you won't by showing actual facts that Jordan can shoot threes
You realize shooting efficient at three is more impressive that shooting threes in the regular season right
More competitive, better defensive tactics
Jordan shoot well at three when it mattered
90 percent of star players today regressed in the playoffs especially at 3
@@RoyJohnson-uf9xr No you need to do it consistently not even the season is enough it has to be multiple season, dwade was a worse shooter than Jordan but shot 40% from three on 7 attempts in a playoff series, does that make him a better shooter than Jordan??
It's not even an evolution thing. When jordan practiced the three pointer he broke the finals record for 3s in a half that stood until ray allen broke it. Shot 43% from 3 in the series. The media tried the same narrative, and Jordan rose to the occasion as per usual
That a small sample size on a consistent basis Jordan was a bad three point shooter
Kenny Smith says saying Jordan couldn't go left is like saying Prince could not play the guitar. He laughed at these cats. But the issue is that Jordan was simply too good. Thus, they have to attempt to diminish him with false narratives.
That clip from Kenny was when they were playing against each other on college, he then said that totally changed when he went to the NBA
@@lamontewilliams3011 Jordan can go left but he was limited, can't dribble for more than 2 dribbles on his left and finish, doesn't have the handles using his left (inside out, behind the back, snatch back cross etc)
LeBron fans like to say Jordan didn't have a left. So that means Jordan won 6 championships, scored 32k points just playing on the right side of the court. That in itself makes him the goat.
Just remember the Seahawks didn’t run the ball
crazy how we’ve seen AL HORFORD extend his career off 3 point shooting, and saying MJ gotta be “super mike” to develop a 3 pt shot is nasty work
In the 1989-90 season Jordan shot 38% from the 3 on 5 attempts a game he would do fine with the 3 in this current era
Pretty sure it was 3 attempts but the point still stands
Yes but some folks think that jacking up less 3 point shots equates to being less skilled.
And he had season where he shot under 20%.For his career he shot under 33%.Why do people have problems admiting his deficiencies? He wasnt a great playmaker,rebounder and a good 3pt shooter. Someone is better at all of those and more,but it doesnt mean that MJ isnt the greatest player of all time.
@@bluedot6926 the more he shot the better his % was is the argument. Him shooting 1 3 per gm and missing isn't the same as shooting 4 per game and missing 2
@@m.j.w.2876 He was a 30% 3 pt shooter.The percentage is calculated on a season sample season. And when you look at his career sample size he was around a 30% shooter. So what if he took 15 threes a game he would shoot 50% from 3? But he just decided to not do it because he is a nice guy?
Not gonna lie to ya again SGA averages 30 points per game, hitting 1 3 a game. Jordan is a better midrange shooter and driver than SGA. He would light up this competition.
I hate hearing kids who didn't see Jordan live talk about him..there are no real rim protectors in this era...he's living in the lane.
💯
Yea Russell Westbrook lives in the lane too so what
“ No rim protectors” I can’t believe you dudes continue to talk about basketball while clearly not watching. Davis, Gobert, Allen, Wemby, Embiid, Giannis, JJJ, Porzingis, Chet are all great at protecting the rim and I’m leaving off names
@@lofromdabronx6959 demar derozan also lives in the lane and is a midrange god. No one cares
20 shots a game is 5 shots a quarter. That ain't shit.
Shoutout to marz, he does always keep it real, he still a troll though lol. 😂😂
@@Ghost-rb6cw Was on point about jordan
@@ball4life27 facts. 😂
I don't think you realize that Michael Jordan is the exception to the rule that high volume scorers cannot win championships. He is literally the only player in the top 100 for usage rate to ever when a championship in that season.
@@whenisdinner2137 Against weak competition btw
Thing is in his prime MJ was averaging around 37-38% from 3 on 3 attempts a game. He probably wouldn't attempt more than that today to not compromise his game but he could shoot it, it just didn't fit his game.
You’re right Jordan could shoot the three and he explained why he doesn’t shoot the three in the finals series against Portland. He said he doesn’t want it to take away from his mentality of attacking the rim.
@@puncho8799but when LeBron says he attacks the rim for the exact same reason it’s a problem SMH
@@24KLuxury I don’t have a problem with LeBron playing bullyball but when his fans try to say that’s the reason he’s the goat. I have a problem with that. Like how can you be the goat by playing bullyball over someone that’s taking more difficult shots in the mid range
Nope the only times he shot those % on that volume was when the 3 point line was shortened before and after that jordan 3 point % was egregious
@@puncho8799 Nope the only times he shot those % on that volume was when the 3 point line was shortened
The thing about Jordan in the first 3 peat is he did whatever was needed for his team to win whether it be increased fscilitating in 1991, landing 3's in 1992 or averaging 40ppg in 1993
If he was playing today he’d be shooting the 3…Why do we keep
Only speaking on people from the past as if they’d be playing that way today? And when we talk about modern players, we act like they would be playing 2024 basketball in the 80s
You are 100% right on both sides if the 80s-90s players played in the 2020s. They would have the advantage of the technology medicine and training and they would play exactly how the players play in this era and if the 2020s players went back and played in the 80s-90s they would have limited technology medicine and training and play the way the 80s-90s players played and you’re also right about Jordan becoming better at shooting the three-pointer because it would be more of a priority in this era so of course practice makes perfect. So if you practice something you’re going to get better at it I don’t know why people continue to think he would shoot the same percentage as he did back then
@@puncho8799 people don't go over MJ's avg's enough. If you look at them anytime he shot basically 2 a game he was avging in the the high 30s-40's. He could absolutely shoot the 3 if he wanted to, he just never really felt a reason to incorporate it into his game.
So you will just assume players like cousy Russell Baylor west wilt will play like players of today?
The reason we assume Jordan will not be good at three's cause there are many greats players today who are not good at it, giannis butler derozan Westbrook Morant dwade back then wasn't a good shooter but dominates the game
@@ball4life27 If he plays in this era, he’d have to grow up during this time. This is left out of every conversation. It’s so stupid. Would players of either era reach the heights they would’ve if switched around..Probably not but that factors in for me.
@@TylerMartinJPG No like I said many great players today are not good or don't shot three's
Jordan may average 28ppg the most in today’s game which isn’t bad at all. Y’all gotta stop glazing this hard yo 😂😂😂 50? Ok
Capp ignorance is so ignorant if Kobe could be dominant or kawhi or even shai what would MJ be? Y'all just be talking cuz nobody respects your self pro claimed king
Thank you Marz for being realistic
Today Jordan would score 15pts a game off free throws alone 😂
Fact: Jordan has a properly recorded 46 inch vertical from a 1982 study conducted at the UNC. This was before he was a celeb, and he was only a small part of the study. Also Jordan's 40 yard dash was measured at 4.3. The problem is Klutch sports propaganda is trying to destroy Jordan's legacy in order to help Lebron's marketing campaign.
It was 48 and yes confirmed
Says “fact” then proceeds to lie lol
You dudes need to get off Jordan's 🥜 this ain't got nothing to do with klutch sports, and the conversation had nothing to do with lebron either, but some how y'all always find a way to bring him up smh...rent free.
It was stated in his freshman year that MJ ran just under 5 seconds with the 40 yard dash. Then proceeded to run under 4.4 his sophomore year… so you mean to tell me that you believe it’s possible to improve in one year by a .6 second difference? Not to mention, they timed the 40 yard dash manually back in the 80s. If you believe that then I’m convinced Jordan Fans have the lowest IQ on the planet. And MJ for damn sure never had a 46-48 inch vertical.
@@EmperorBeastKaido Look it up bro. Jordan's vert was 46 inches, and 40 yard dash was 4.3 seconds from a published UNC study. These are facts.
He went from “Jordan would do alright” to “Jordan might fck around avg” in like 5 seconds 😂🤣🤣
I hate this ridiculous takes about what Jordan would do in this era: Prime Harden. Prime KD. Prime Steph Curry. Prime Lebron were all unstoppable offensively. So what all of those players are averaging as dominant players would be about what Jordan would average, with above exceptional season when he's doing 33-35 ppg.
It's is not sustainable for one player to dominate this era of basketball.
@@UltraGreatness13 luka doncic
You must be a youngster the reason you can’t compare what those players are doing in this era to what Jordan would do in this era. Is because when Jordan was averaging 35-37 points a game it was a lot more physical back then so that’s the difference of course LeBron Curry KD Harden are averaging a lot of points, but they’re doing it in a little to no defense era where you can’t really touch anyone
Prime Lebron would play better in today's era also. If you disagree, then Luka is better than Prime Lebron.
I like Luka more than Lebron so I have no problem saying that. But you might
@@Zeldafan-zy1pb Prime LeBron was like 2012-13 maybe so it’s possible especially how bad the defense is nowadays
Jordan averaged a flat 20 for the wizards stop and he had the most attempts
At 38- 40 with no knees, a 3 yr hiatus in the slowest of eras
😂😂Wizards Jordan was avg 25-6-5 before his meniscus tear and was an early frontrunner for MVP. He had the 19-win Wizards 26-21 at All-Star break and playing the best defense in the league in the dead ball Era on one leg after being gone for 3 yrs. That's insane
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 nothing without Scottie or Phil.. Bron that dude rookie coach or no matter who around
Long time Jordan supporter. I don’t think he would be the greatest in this modern era. 90s defense is overrated. That hand checking thing is over blown. I went back and watched over 20 MJ games this past week. His 91-92 season. Im not impressed with his comp at all.
Because you're lying about being a Jordan supporter obviously
@@m.j.w.2876 😂damn yall cats crazy
@@MaxPotentialGreatness My guy I did the same thing during the pandemic until this day, I was surprised Jordan wasn't as good as advertised
@@ball4life27 dude fr. Theres no hate either. We get caught up in the last dance and the lore of MJ that people forget to watch the REAL games. The defense they played on MJ was ass. They are letting him get comfortable, they were letting him pull up in the mid range. They were standing 4 feet away from him. You cant guard anyone like that today. Its crazy because i cant believe im saying this. MJ didn’t have to see Steph , KD , Ant , DBook, Jokic , Embid , Kawhi , PG13, James Harden , Russel Westbrook, Lebron , Jimmy Butler , Giannis , etc on a nightly basis. Outside of Reggie Malone Barkley Ewing knicks the comp is low tier.
@@MaxPotentialGreatness Yeah I started watching in 1995 I was in highschool during the pandemic I decided to watch full game of 91 92 93 finals there was nothing physical in those games like they tell you, so I watched the series against the Knicks 92 and 93, same thing just common fouls that happen today, if anything Jordan was receiving soft calls during the 93 series
This is the MOST clownish conversation about MJ I've ever heard, especially from ninjas the seem to be old enough to know TRUTH over fallacies. 🤦🏾♂️
Cry it was realistic you jordan fans are just glazing on myths
Lmao they really think Jordan can average 50 in this game 🤣 crazy work
At the same time they think Lebron would get bullied by 90s players
With this comment, it just proves that you’re a youngster
@@puncho8799If he went ultimate ball hog mode maybe but but it won’t lead to winning at all
@@GOATZELWARDBANDWAGON.Luka takes more shots than Jordan. Embiid averages more shots (fouls dont add to field goals attempted)
@@GOATZELWARDBANDWAGON.Today's NBA pacing is higher. So Jordan will be allowed to attempt field goals like Embiid and Luka
A team would most definitely allow Jordan to shoot 28 shots.
lol at the goofy kid saying MJ can’t score 40 in today’s NBA with NO defense 😂😂😂
Right!! 💯🤣
It was NO defense back then😂😂Film don’t lie
@@9xXEJXx9 You’re right film don’t lie and it shows that it was much tougher back then than it is now with little to no defense
@@puncho8799 I 100% agree with that but if niggas could hand check and play more physical then the defense would be better. Yk already know you can’t even play aggressive without the refs blowing the whistle 😂😂
@@puncho8799 Facts!! These LeTrash fanboys are some lying goofy ass fanboys 🤦🏾♂️
Jordan can go left
Jordan didn't play against plumbers
Jordan didnt have weak finals comp
Anything else I need to debunk
Them pistons teams never saw KG Celtics
80s Pistons were probably the most stacked team ever. They sat Hall of famers. Only LeBrons 2013 Heat in the 21st century had that sort of privilege. To sit all stars and Hall of Famers.
@@erikpuka2627 first off that 2013 heat had no hall of famers just sitting on their bench. Second what was your point with the first statement.
They saw Birds Celtics and the Showtime Lakers that had 4-5 HoFers each
@@erikpuka2627Y’all just be making shit up lol
@@X02Overdose Pretty sure he talking about since they added Ray Allen off the bench. So yes, they could sit all stars and hall of famers.
Nobody in the 21st century touches Jordan. The closest was Kawhi before the injuries. But even with him there was a noticeable difference. The others game just lacks so many aspects to even be compared. They don't even deserve a mention.
Kawhi plays exactly like 2nd 3peat MJ. It’s a great comparison
it's crazy that marz is the only person that makes sense, teams are not allowing you to average 40 they will triple team you. Even shaq , embid and luka have not averaged 40. Even mj didn't average 40 so what are we even talking about.
The thing is MJ averaged 37 while being triple teamed.
He played in a league with 4 guys waiting at the rim because there was no spacing and a lot of physicality allowed to affect shots.
You give MJ space to operate and drive, and also you are not allowed to challenge him at the rim? That is scary, him averaging close to 40 or even 40 is not that crazy for a season.
@@sergeistalin7916 show me what to watch to show he was triple teamed when he averaged 37
@@sergeistalin7916 it is still crazy, you do not understand how much 40 really is. He is playing on a team of players who want to take shots too. The other team is also trying to stop him from shooting, at a certain point teams are going to triple team him every possession if he is the only person shooting the ball. If he has"space" then that means his team is good, he doesn't have space unless he's on decent team so that point makes no sense.
But Harden scored almost that and Kobe scored almost that. What are we even talking about
@@ishowspeedplug2845 Teams did double and triple him and still averaged 37. Like who you think was scoring on the Bulls?
He was scoring like 1/3 of the entire teams points because he was lucky if he had 1 player that could score over 10 points shooting over 45%.
Do teams care if Lukas teammates want to score?
Did teams care if Hardens teammates wanted to score when he averaged 36?
And the spacing is relative. Teams ignored the Bulls players too, but theres a difference between standing doing nothing at 10 feet from the rim and teams ignoring shooters today but still standing at 15 feet from the rim and then rotate when needed. What you think is non spacing today still is far more spacing than he had on the late 80s or even 90s.
He averaged 37 back then. Without hand checking Jordan would definitely average 40. James harden gave you 36 while jacking up 3s and shooting less than 45 percent from the field.
@@kirklanbarnes1490 Jordan was given a lot of soft calls back then
He would average 35 points a game easily because he would have expanded his game and taken more 3 pointers just like every player has. So that easily 3-6 more points a game for him
Oh good call for sure. Man he would have been awesome in this era. Jordan is gonna adapt.
I’m not saying he can’t adapt but I don’t understand the logic of just giving players attributes they didn’t have
@@YangoBord but he did have those. He kept adapting. I don't see why he couldn't? He wasn't just a dunker, he perfected the mid range when he didn't have those. And gifted with natural athletisicism just how Bron has adapted and developed his 3 point range. But yes your right since he's not playing anymore we technically can't add to his attributes. But solely putting him in today's era wouldn't matter though. He's an efficient scorer he would be like kobe but even better. You know what I'm saying? He would still be MJ in any Era
@@YangoBord so that works the other way, the toughness of the prior eras, the players today don't have that attribute
@@m.j.w.2876 but how do u guys even know that? How do u know these players today aren’t tough enough?
I think 93 Jordan was Apex MJ if you ask me
Klutch sports is paying guys like Nick Wright and Shannon sharpe to diminish Jordan's legacy for marketing reasons. Lebron wants the goat title because that's where the money is. We need to debunk the anti Jordan propaganda and have some objective conversations again.
Objective as in Jordan is the goat, that's not Objective at all
It's not just anti Jordan but Klutch sports is anti every player other than LeBron. They hate on Larry Bird, Magic, Kareem, Tim Duncan, Bill Russell and plenty of other players. It's like if you don't have LeBron as your GOAT they starts hating on you right away instead of respecting facts and opinions. You can't be the best ever when you have lost more than you've won in the biggest and most important game in your sport. LeBron should easily have 2 more championships and even if he just had 1 more ring then alot more people would think he's the goat. But losing in 2011 and 2014 to the Mavs and the Spurs should never have happened and that mickey mouse bubble ring will never be viewed as a real championship
@@Christo_Trismegistus Facts. It's about time people started to speak out against Klutch sports propaganda.
So then I pose this question who the hell is paying skip bayless or rob Parker or all of fox sports to discredit lebron then?
@omez23 ... like it wasn't Jordan Propaganda in the late 80's and early 90's???
Not only is it a myth. Jordan is better at isolation with his left hand than every player in the NBA today with both hands STATISTICALLY.
@@whenisdinner2137 False Jordan has limited left hand dribbles
What's more likely jordan averages 3 More points per game than his career high points for game or 7 ppg under his career average in a higher scoring league with less defense?
That is what you're asking when you say "what's more likely for him to average 40 or 23"?
I guarantee you he's averaging 40. I'm putting my bank account on the over
Marz is speaking in ignorance. Jordan could average 40 if he wanted.
Jordan was also a good 3 point shooter, when he wanted to shoot 3s he did and he did it well.
Nobody would be able to stop Jordan.
Jordan fans are so delusional they will look u in the face and tell u that Jordan had higher vert than Gerald green 😂😂 bro stop
Simple question. What type of players gave MJ the most problems? Quick twitch explosive guards, and bigger athletic wings. The NBA has never had more of those type of players than they have today. Yes MJ would be good but he’d be competing with a lot more competition. And no he wouldn’t be the most athletic player in the league and no he doesn’t jump higher than Ja. Ja look down at the rim when he goes up, MJ is as barley getting his head to the rim.
When did quick guards give him problems?
And why u say he wasn’t more athletic than ja?
Jordan fans fail to realize we got at least 10 MJ’s in today’s league. Hyper athletic is a normalcy these days. He’d average 25 in today’s league just like Kobe. He’d win 2 rings AT BEST when you got dominant players and teams like LBJ, Steph and Jokic.
@@24KLuxury how u know what he would do?
@@getdown7799 Dumars, Rider, Harper, Starks, Kenny Johnson, hardaway, iverson. Shoot even Rex Chapman who wasn’t really super athletic he was just very twitchy/quick and played a lot more like guards today. And I just believe MJs athletic ability is extremely over hyped because he was being compared to the guys he played against. And as far and MJ/Ja. Jumping ability alone Ja clears MJ. Ja has missed poster attempts that are better than MJs. Just go watch a compilation of MJs best dunks, hes 6’6 and supposedly has a 48 inch vert but when he dunks his head isn’t at the rim. Gerald green was 6’6 with a 44 inch vert and used to have his neck above the rim.
@@devinsmart1547 what guards are quick and athletic like that today besides ja and ant?
Most 2 guards nowadays is 3 and d players
And if u think ja jumps higher just because of highlights, thats your opinion bro
Just a point of order the bad boy Pistons went to 3 straight NBA finals and won 2. Just wanted to make that clear.
Jordan averaged 37 points off of 2 pointers so why it is such a stretch in this era for him to average 40
Imagine if jordan had 4 steps to shoot lmmfao imagine jordan being able to dribble once from half court n finish with a dunk and its legal. He was on another planet being only allowed 2 steps after dribble stops
Jordan at 40 no speed quickness or athleticism and in the 2003 deadball era still avg 20 let that sink in
It was easier for guys to score in the 90s because they weren’t allowed to play zone. MJ could use his physical gifts that others couldn’t to his advantage. Now with zone his capabilities aren’t as OP because defense is more advanced
Jordan wouldn't get off today?? Lol😅😊 This Trey guy says stuff then instantly apologizes?the young generation just don't know.
We have to factor in that he retired the first time dead in his prime we never seen that, imagine if he stayed past 93 he probably would’ve been even scarier
Jordan would be crazy he don’t waste moves and scores easy
Mostly anybody that hasn't watched Jordan live I pay no mind
So Jordans game wouldn't adjust to today's era.. come on now
We done w the casual choice revisionist history
Ppl need to understand that at the highest level, every move has been seen already pretty much. Everybody knows Shaq is going to drop step and put you in the basket. Everyone knows Kobe is gonna fade. Everyone knows Harden is going to stepback and so on. Just because you know what someone is going to do, that doesn't mean anything because you're not going to stop them regardless
The best Jordan was 92 for sure
23:57 I dont why the Dallas Mavericks were being brought up for what competition the Pistons were facing in the 2000s. They never faced each other in the playoffs because they WERE IN DIFFERENT CONFERENCES. They could not face off until the finals.
Look what Kobe was able to do
How you let my guy talk falsehoods. Explain if Jordan's era was drinking and not studying, they practiced 10x harder, played 3 games back to back, and they all played both sides ferociously, unlike today. If you couldn't play D or should I say have pride in yourself to play both ends all game relentlessly, you came off the bench. That era was defensively dominant because of the rules making offense 10 times harder than this soft cupcake era. The played harder and took 100x the abuse than players nowadays all while being DRUNK? That's a superhero compared to the soft players of today. Load managing, flopping, avoiding tough match ups, faking injuries etc. I won't mention all the traveling, carrying etc Thats allowed now. This era is trash and Lefraud skill/fundamentals wise isn't top 20. All size in the weakest softest defensive era.
12:16 yeah the late 90s Jordan was more experienced and like Marz said he was more knowledgeable. Operating on the post, taking advantage of his footwork skills. He put in some muscle amd being around 210 lbs, he was slower but make no mistake he can still blow by people
please get rid of the guy in the bucket hat... put him in rehab with his crazy talk
I’m tired of hearing this myth that Jordan would average in this era of basketball if he didn’t average that in his own era. Stop giving people points it’s ridiculous that’s not a basketball conversation at all. Y’all say drop the current players in todays game back then they would struggle but drop a 80s or 90’s guy they thrive is the most stupidest take ever. The only people you gonna mention in the 80’s or 90’s are all time greats but the same can be said about todays guys , nobody puts the average player of back then and now and see who would be better bc if that’s the case I think we know who’s better not only skill wise but player wise.
We need this same energy with every other superstar
Honestly the commentary on this pod are so damn dumb.
Jordan is easily the best player in this era not named Wemby.
Mentality matters...I love the game for the most part but man Jordan was a bully too if he sniffed it out!
MJ's intelligence and grit was what made him. I need to drink holy water after watching this blasphemy
@@TalentedTenth That's the problem you slurpers think Jordan was a god🤣
@@ball4life27 your mom is the only sleeper out here boy. Put some respect on Jordan’s name.
@@TalentedTenth Your mom jokes in 2024🤣 Jordan played in a weak era 90s🤣
Yall should be done with this weak era dudes not great enough to win so they gotta team up together still lose then blame the coach
@@2rawww4tvkd Jordan played in a weak era 90s
@@ball4life27 don’t even got time to destroy yo pathetic comment but remember the weakest 4x dpoy in the history of the game comes from this era . Fans that watch are lower then ever these dudes scared to compete in dunk contest & competition you can’t be serious 🤡
@@2rawww4tvkd Jordan matched up against Russell hornacek Hawkins majerle Byron Scott in the finals
@@ball4life27 lebron playing against twitch streamers & TikTok influencers that’s scared to compete need to load manage every other game & blame the coach bc they can’t win
@@2rawww4tvkd Lebron beat a 73 win team Jordan best competition was the old jazz🤣
Durant shoots 5 3s a game and avg 28 to 30. SGA doesn't and avg 30. MJ is superior to both these players. Very worst case MJ avg 35 to 38. We saying MJ didn't go left (troll talk) but we seen Harden avg 36 with no right, with extreme 3 volume and FTs.
Luka took 22 shots this year, Harden 24.5 when he avg 36. MJ will get 23 shots a game. Natural progression we will see and increase in 3s and probably better fg% with the paint open
This chatter is starting to become very comical
Dude with the hat miss remember facts. The 04 Pistons did not face KG or Dirk. During this time, the West was stacked. 04 Pistons dominated the Lakers. Kobe shot them straight out that series. 04 Pistons have 1 chip. 80s have 2, with an ankle sprain away from a possible 3peat. Let alone in the 90 chip year, only the bulls took them to 7 games.
Do you think LeBron would improve in the 90s based on what you said about natural progression? Him being able to bulldoze people in an era where the refs didn’t call so many fouls would help Lebron
@@BigLilCuhz-1900If Lebron plays like Shaq or Barkely, he will get injured sooner
@@BigLilCuhz-1900Lebron wouldnt just be allowed to bulldoze. He will be told to play physical against Shaq and Barkely and any other 260 pound player.
@@BigLilCuhz-1900Lebron will have good seasons, then get injured like most purely physical players.
@@BigLilCuhz-1900in a less physical era Lebron rarely plays much more than 50 games until injury. In a physical era, his injuries will logically increase.
It’s hilarious how people say MJ isn’t the greatest because he had no competition, but then mention when he loses to discredit him even further.
@@JoeyClarkeProd Because he lost during the pistons prime and won when they were done playing against majerle or hornacek
@@ball4life27 5 of the 6 teams the MJ bulls played against in the finals were 60+ win teams if not the best team in the league that season. Pistons never swept the Bulls, but it was the other way around when they got their first chip. By the way, stop watching comedy shows on UA-cam thinking what they’re saying is valid. It was true, but Dan majerle, Craig ehlo, and Jeff hornacek was not MJs only competition in the playoffs.
@@JoeyClarkeProd Well lebron beat a 73 win team🤷♂️ Jordan was matched up against those players which was very easy majerle hornacek Hawkins Byron Scott and them
@@ball4life27 one 70+ win team. Just one. And it was the same team from the last year. Doesn’t matter how good you are, it’s how you perform that gets you the trophies. Lebron could’ve been better than everyone. He just isn’t. I.e. 2011.
@@JoeyClarkeProd Lebron beat the big three Celtics okc 2012 spurs 2013 warriors 2016 all are better than Jordan's competition in the finals
It’s insane to suggest that Jordan wouldn’t work on his 3 point shot in this era. He’s the most complete player that’s ever played. He wouldn’t have allowed the 3 point shot to be a weakness for him in this current nba. According to the dude in the hoody a Jordan with a 3 pt shot is super Jordan lol …then he would be super Jordan then. 🤷🏾♂️
yes its super jordan,cos its not based in the reality that happened. if u wanna say hed do it then sure i try to stay as close to what happened as possible otherwise we can take hypotheticals as far as we want cos none of it can be proven objectively
3:54 Be mediocre? 😂 I understand it’s hard to quantify intangibility - or in layman terms, mentality. But at the core of factors that separate players MENTALITY is just as important as skill. All this to say, Jordan’s mentality and eagerness to win AND dominate his opponents is second to known. It’s one thing to want to win but Jordan really sought to break his opponents will. We accredit Kobe with that trait a lot but Jordan was cut from that same cloth WITH supreme athleticism and skill
Only sport that does this, basketball media could possibly be the worst out here.
7:51 yeah 20 FTs a game is diabolical.
In 1987 fresh off a broken foot the previous season Jordan averaged a whopping…
37 ppg on 48% FG he did take 27.8 shot attempts and 11.8 FTA…
Formula for him averaging 40 in today’s game is simple…
He would take 24 FGA but this time make 60% of them… and take 14 FTA..
24 x 2 x 0.6 = 28.8 ppg
14 x 0.85 = 11.9 ppg
That total = 40.7ppg
Not including any 3s as in 1987 he took 0.8 and made 0.1 so it’s negligible
It’s fully realistic for him to take 24 shots even on a good team Luka just took 23.6 this season and his team went to the finals…
It’s also justified he could make 60% of those shots due to the spacing and pace of the game…
There’d be little to no resistance of him…..
he can still duplicate his production from the 87 season at 54-55% FG which is very realistic seeing as back then in 88 he took 24.4 FGA and made 53.5% of them….
Only 2 players last season that had more than 21 shots per game. Only one player had more than 10 FTA per game. Not a single guard or small forward averaged more than 56%. To say that it’s realistic to lead ALL those lists is insane.
No he won't shoot 60% fg thats just stupid😂😂😂
And he would be labelled as a freethrow merchant like embiid dame or trae? You jordan fans ready for that?😂
I dislike the Ja morant first step . Jordan’s era was a lot slower back then . These guys are as athletic as Jordan stop the nonsense
No one today has a 48 in vert with 4.3 speed, no one
@@m.j.w.2876fr
@@m.j.w.2876plus people are more athletic today cause of technology an dokus just to mention Dominique has 42 cycle drexler has a 42 inch very Shaw Kemp had a 41 as well penny haradh had a 38 shaq had a 32 for his 7, 0 size of 300 pound bro so to say the 1990 didn't have athletic dudes is crazy
@@Goatfan2krole players have those verts today back then 3-4 people
@@m.j.w.2876Jordan wasnt even that fast coast to coast compared to lebron westbrook drose or morant
MJ = Goat
Mj couldn’t dribble men he not doing nothing more then what already been done
40 to 50 points easy! Doesn’t need the 3 point shot. And remember he said it himself! I take what the defense gives me. So you can’t hand check him. He’s going to destroy the league like he’s always done.
50 points😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Many players would avg 40 if thats the case lol
These young dudes don't what they talking bout and that too old to be on lebrons knob
Jordan reasonably cannot be placed too high on the all-time list, anybody should be able to admit that it's reasonable to have him as the GOAT. However the people who put him on an untouchable pedestal are the ones who are being ridiculous and unfair to other players.
Other players weren't as good
Kawhi if not for injuries had a chance
@@erikpuka2627
I'm talking about the people who say that it's literally not possible for anybody to ever be greater than him past, present or future no matter what they do. That's a ridiculous and unfair mindset. Besides, I would say that LeBron is slightly greater than Jordan the way I currently see it.
@@justsayin669 I mean taking into account the accomplishments and impact on the game and culture it's going to be a long time. Curry is the only realistic comparable option and he's a liability defensively so he's not in the conversation off that alone. Bron is next up but the cultural and accolade impact isn't the same. Legendary players will come and go but goat is forever.
@@justsayin669 Jordan is the greater player Michael Jordan was more dominant than LeBron had a storybook career in his impact is far beyond basketball Jordan is nearly unbeatable it's 100% possible that someone can beat them but at this point I can only see Victor being able to do it only if he's the best defender to ever play basketball and scores 29 points a game for the next 13 years that's the level dominance that someone needs to beat Jordan because there's no chance in hell you're beating Jordan's cultural impact
@@justsayin669But see here’s the thing when you break the Goat Conversation you nick pick so let’s just take Jordan out of the Conversation for now let’s talk about the other people who might be in the Goat Conversation if you a old head some people might say Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain if you want the Ring you would like Bill Russell but he wasn’t as individually dominant Individually Dominant you could argue for Wilt Chamberlain but he didn’t win a lot now to Kareem he’s got pretty the same amount accomplishments as Jordan but here’s the problem he was the best player on all his championship teams so people would probably use that argument against Kareem then when you to Jordan and Lebron you can go either way
If you tell me he would average a cool 37/03/06 then fine but we talking about an era where most players if not all players are shooting 3s also if he’s successful he will get the Lebron treatment where everyone is going to focus on him and people would let him open outside just like they were doing to Ben Simmons.
This new dude don’t know what the hell he talking about… he just saying whatever that comes to mind 💀💀
We can not assume jordan will evolve with a three today its like assuming bob cousy would have a handle today or wilt would have shot threes or elgin baylor would have a bag like Ant
To this day there are still players who are very good but cant or dont shoot three's like giannis butler derozan morant westbrook(prime) dwade back in 2010s was really good without a three
Ima be real i was born in 94 so i aint see mj BUT he average 43 ppg in the playoffs b4 😂 his bald head ahh would avergae 40 easy frfr
I thoroughly enjoyed this collaborative discussion! So refreshing compared to what these panels often devolve into.
Jordan’s best seasons from 3 were his highest volume ones and yes that also includes the normal line .
3.0 APG in 89-90 37.6
2.9 APG in 92-93 35.2
Then the shortened line, and the shortened season he had 1.9 APG at 50 percent
3.2 attempts a game in 95-96 at 42.7 percent
96-97 was 3.6 attempts a game at 37.4 percent
His horrible ones were below 1 attempt a game for a season and bad or mediocre around 1 a game.
So what we factually have is HE DID shoot them better with increased volume regardless of whether the line was at the normal place or on the moon or wherever. It says more than speculation and 3.0 attempts a game or higher he is 37.6 percent and higher. 2.9 a game and he’s 35.2 percent and higher. Data doing it with increased volume and being better beats assumptions
The best comparison to what Michael Jordan would be in todays game stylistically as far statistical output and overall shot chart is Shai Gilgeous-Alexander not so much Derozan
shai is a good one
Dennis Rodman was the best defender on the Pistons Joe was second
MJ averaged 37 then he would average 40 now easy and MJ can shoot 3s
Look at his career.... the more 3s he took in a season the higher the percentage he had
Mj would shoot 40% from 3s if he wanted to be a 3 pt shooter
mj would avenge 25-28 now, too much talent in todays game
the game was faster back then and noone plays that many minutes anymore. and we arent making super mike for the sake of a hypothetical
the GOAT will be Ja Defrozen😂😂🤦🏾♂️ yall are kidding me. just stop with the nonsense
Ya cmon guys stop it. All the video evidence of MJ driving left and finishing with his right are all fake edited videos. The pistons forcing MJ left all game was fake. MJ doing a simple behind the back move that made announcer go “ OMG WHAT WAS THAT” was fake. All praise MJ