How Covert Narcissists Use Guilt to Manipulate and Control
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
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One thing I've learned from encountering narcissists in my life is, never feel like you have to apologize to narcissists for anything. Just walk away.
Yep. That is why they like feeling like you need them. So they can pretend to come to your rescue, but turn around and abuse and neglect you at the same time.
You just described my two sisters!! They have grown worse since my Mom died!! Took me on a weekend get away and left me for two days in a row and went off to do things I could not do.. The older sis ,I’m the middle.. is brutally insulting at times and I’m done !! I just gave up a few months ago and now I’m happier.. I have great people in my life !! I’m focused on them..
Or talk about you like a dog after they help you out. Fake and disingenuous.
Yup!❤
This was how he always kept me under his control. Always he made it a point that he was right and I'm wrong. When he did a fraction of a good thing, i used to be like in full of gratitude and in tears and talking about his GIFT to be even Godly!! Foolish me!
Rather than telling them it hurt your feelings to be ignored, say nothing. The Narcissist is waiting for you to say something. When you don't, they eventually will, because they flirted in order to MAKE you feel ignored. They WANT you to say something and that is exactly the reason to say nothing. When they say something - i.e. "Why did you get so angry when I was simply talking to the server/cashier/party host/whoever?" - respond with an answer about THEIR feelings... "That bothered you" OR... "That made you uncomfortable"... OR "That embarrassed you". This breaks the cycle of explaining and defending yourself. Put it on them. When they say something like, "No, I wasn't embarrassed, you got jealous!" REPEAT - "And, that bothered you." Keep repeating those statements, because they don't know where to go with a new pattern of conversation.
Never explain.
Never defend.
Put it back on them.
Yes, this does work. But we also need to know “our Narcs” cycle of behaviour. If there is physical violence involved, this approach could be dangerous. I know this, I’ve experienced this. (And yes I’m working on my exit plan)
Know your safety and security issues. In these situations sometimes it’s best to just say “okay, thanks for sharing” and walk away.
Excellent information! I have a malignant sibling, who has always used guilt to control me. I decided the relationship isn't worth saving so I am no contact. These people don't change. I had to change.
My mom has terminal cancer and she has been using guilt to manipulate me and has wrote me hateful messages even after I sent her a positive message.
Having a desire to do my part and have a good heart is most definitely taken advantage of...
And you don't want to give up being a kind person. It is rewarded with everyone but 'family' and you hope that someday it will. But do not change the kind person you are.
Our healthy behaviours do not evoke healthy behaviours in toxic people but our healthy behaviours will strenghten our internal feeling of being grounded and we will be able to respond rather than react and strengthen our self-trust and self-validation. Thank you. Great.
You can build them up and they will still tear you down If you let them Thank you Michele
No one understands covert narcissism and their dynamics as you do! It's an uncanny blessing that you validate my experiences without even knowing me :) God bless you Michelle. Sending you lots of love and light!
They are going to be the way they like, it is their choice, if they want to be rude, agressive, deceitful or otherwise, they can. We can not control or try to influence anybody’s behaviour. Everybody is responsible for their actions only. It comes from humble admission that we are individuals and have their own history and truth. We must know who we are and what our motivation are and must have internal locus of control and do not seek outside validation. Thank you.
Wow, you just described my entire relationship with my father growing up.
No contact.. no BS… it’s a beautiful thing… whatever happened to “respect others the way you want to be treated “ ????? Kindness and respect doesn’t cost 💲 a thing…. Sometimes the WOLF will appear at your door… Don’t let them in….. love your videos.. recent subscriber…..
They tell you to do those things but they don't.
If they respect you. Respect them
Talking without bad consequences for narcissistic is pointless, nothing change. If you are not ready to force bad consequences, you are perfect target for narcissistic, don't forget about it.
I’ve seen “Sorry “ used but meanning “shut up!” or “Drop It”.
dealing with Narczilla, you are always walking through a mind-field gauntlet bordered on one side with quicksand and the otherside with sharks and piranha
Lol, Godzilla is a Angel compared to the likes of Narcissists.
I love also
Pink Girl Teaches & how she labels them:"swamp creatures " 😅. So True. + they pounce on you
Just as you are happy.. they appear to Try to drown you in that stinky swamp with them.
I've never been one to apologize for something I know I shouldn't feel sorry for. Like going out with friends. Gaming late with friends online at home on my PC. Crocheting any chance I get free time.
Everything else is spot on. I spent a lot of time not doing things as a way to not poke the bear. I became isolated from everyone.
Me too… till there was hardly any me left. Really working hard to get me back now
Michelle, your videos are so wise & informative With your knowledge & insight & intelligence, you could’ve become a research scientist. Thanks for being with all of us survivors growing into our identity as thrivers
It's good that you did not apologize for things you knew you should not feel sorry for. However, The majority of people here find themselves apologizing for things they know they should not be apologizing for--they just want peace.
@@kirstenvogel9620 yes. It's just that my toxic ex would always say how "you never say sorry for anything. What does that say about YOU?!" For me having boundaries and not letting him walk all over me. Or for making some kind of small mistake when cooking or cleaning. Or trying to leave him and failing at it... Making friends because he doesn't like them I'm suppose to not speak too again and say sorry for it because he wasn't getting enough attention anymore. Saying sorry for me is something I don't say on a whim for every little thing... Yet it's turned on me because he does it more than or whatever. Makes me the toxic one out of the both of us.
@@xGroteskx I'm sorry [lol, no pun intended], maybe I'm jealous, they NEVER apologize to me, and my sis actually tricked our conversation where I started to say, "I'm sorry you feel that way" but she cut me off at "I'm sorry" and loudly said, "Well, I'm glad to see you finally admit it!!!" so that my niece only heard that I'd "finally admitted it". What a sorry beach my sis is. I'm glad you do not apologize unless its right. I'm stuck in a hell hole these days.
Thanks for sharing your input and advice. It is greatly appreciated. But I have learned that it is just easier to disengage from people altogether. This includes a parent/parents, or any other family members, or so called friends that act in this manner. And have this way of thinking/being. Because no matter what you say or do, some people like this will choose to come at you and come at you hard. Because they live in such a state of misery, and they do everything in their power to inflict that misery on you.
My ex narc gf discarded me again and took my son. I've messaged her regularly about seeing him and she's been ignoring me essentially having no contact. She then messaged me saying why haven't I been trying to see my kid , I'm a bad dad etc. Lol... Narc logic for you. Ignore someone then punish them for being ignored. Unreal. 😣
I've given up on trying to please the other! I do feel nervous in my own home at times! I hate that feeling!
Michelle, you are a Master at seeing the unhealthy behavior, explaining it so that I can see it, and teaching me healthy steps to take to get past their abuse. I am so grateful for the good work you are doing. You are changing my world.
Michele
Your content is spot on- much wisdom, authenticity, and I'm very thankful for your teachings. Keep up great work!
People try and use guilt to manipulate and control me often, turn situations around on me when I call out their BS and are usually too arrogant to acknowledge their behaviour. As you say, you can’t help how they behave you just have to walk away. I’m in a vulnerable financial position at the moment and people think they can use that against me. What they don’t realise is that I’m ready to walk away from everyone and everything, pack up and start my life somewhere else. I’ve done it before, I’ll do it again. I’ll be making some big changes soon but the important thing is I’m standing up for myself no matter what the consequences. If I lose friends so be it. If I have nowhere to live so be it. You have to be prepared to lose things, but toxic people aren’t worth knowing even it that means you’re completely alone. You explained it well, thanks Michelle! 👌✌️
I wish that I had listened to this before my apology. I am being ignored now.
Thank you - your videos seem to get better and better, Michelle! 🙏
The thing I am struggling with now, is that having been motivated by guilt and ‘duty’ for years, now I’m free of them I’m struggling to find what to replace them with! I find it hard to motivate myself to do things that previously I would have done just ‘because I should’, even when they are things that I want to do… 🤔 A video on that - once you’re healing and have freed yourself from the toxicity - would be great 😊
Oh my gosh! So true! This ploy by the narcissist has gone on for decades and continues even after we have separated! She never apologizes! There are no signs of acceptance for hurtful “things“ she may have done! I am always at fault! 🤔Reconciliation is not possible at this point nor is closer! It’s real crazy stuff!Thank you for this wonderful video!💞
This is real one time we went to look for a car we have a large family and we needed an SUV so instead of going for something we can afford like a 550 which mind you I'm agreeing to note she wants the most expensive thing on the lot paying 800-1100 monthly when I'm not agreeing to the 800-1100 she says in front of the salesman some people don't care if their kids get around to guilt me but I explained to in front of the salesman let's got with 550 that will get them around just fine for the moment she couldn't gaslight me because there was a third party hearing everything but that was only one of many times her trying to use the kids to guilt me
I found these books help full. the verbal abusive relationship by patrisha evans. controlling people by patrisha evans. combatting cult mind control by Steven Hassan.
Thank you for posting this!!
Yep ... exactly . I was accused in very covert ways of dating others on dating sites for over a year and a half .. I told her repeatedly that I’ve only gone out with 3 ppl from those things and she was the third .. I got sick of it .. I felt no guilt because I wasn’t doing what she kept implying .. so instead of guilt I was defending myself all that time but it was like she was trying to inject guilt into me ... she finally ‘dumped’ me after I caught her in a lie that I had been waiting for her to fess up to .. of course she did it in as cruel and unfriendly way possible ... I gave her more than she deserved from me .. good bye Jayme
Trying to explain my decisions all the time.
Your opening questions summed up my whole marriage experience!
Good timing! And good insights. I've been dealing with an acquaintance of mine who is used to people complying with what this person wants or doesn't want. Has to be in charge. Some people seem to think that it's their job job to control the universe and everyone in it, and that just doesn't work for me anymore.
Setting healthy boundaries does result in backlash or the silent treatment and smear campaigns, etc. It still hurts sometimes when that happens. It's disappointing. It has also been a rude awakening at times as to who are your friends, and who is not. And that can hurt, too. The interesting thing is, though, that it used to devastate me. Sure, it still hurts, but I am okay. I keep moving forward in life and trying to focus more on what my purposes in this life is. And that brings me peace.
I am grateful for what I have been learning from you over the past few years, Michele. I can't say that I have mastered everything, and it's still uncomfortable to set boundaries and maintain those boundaries because of the reactions of some other people. However, I am noticing that I am getting a lot better at being able to separate myself from the negative reactions from others. Using the analogy that you have shared a few times to view the situation as if I was watching a movie, has been life changing for me. I am finally developing a core belief that my worth is separate from the opinions and behavior of others. I am still very much imperfect---aren't we all?---but it's okay if someone gets upset because I am no longer okay with being manipulated. This person sometimes says, "I know you." In reality, though, this person knows their PERCEPTION of me and how I USED to be, even just a few years ago. What this person (and other people) seem to not accept is that I am not that same person anymore. I am transforming into a new and better version of myself. And because the transformation begins inside of a person, I think that it makes it harder for other people to see it initially, and then to eventually accept it. Does that make sense? I am at the point, though, that if someone doesn't accept who I am becoming, am willing to let them go and move forward in my life. I can't please everyone, and that's okay. Who I actually am, deep inside, is not ultimately measured by their yardstick of approval. And that's okay.
I think this was the number one way that I was controlled and also intimidation.
Spot on .. you identify an issue, it's all yours!! Infuriating..
How about adult children, victims of narcissistic alienation, parental and reinforced by 3rd parties. They don't realize they are carrying on the traits that harmed them in the first place, on the one that was targeted for being a threat to the narcs ego. These beloveds evoke natural empathy from their target parent, and are heartbreaking, in ability to guilt trip a loving parent that's there for them..
I'd love to hear a video from you about vague, ambient, unspoken abuse; killer stuff.. insidious
An excuse in narcissist language: "It's your own fault, I told you so".
Michele... I NEEDED THIS VIDEO RIGHT NOW!!
I have fallen into this trap until I started healing and understanding. I recently visited my mom. She said and did so many things that didn't make sense, just that it was crazy mixed with bits of unreasonable fits of narcissistic rage. It clicked that she was displaying all the traits of a narcissist. Which is why I have decided I will watch all your videos. I don't feel guilty, cause I know I'm not in the wrong and standing my own ground enraged her more, so I'm gonna cut her out. That's it part of my healing journey, I was wondering how I has so much in common with those raised by narcissistic parents.... surprise my mom is one! Lol it's ok
This was a different look at what it means to be a doormat. I learned this perspective from Dr. K from the HealthyGamer channel on YT. Being a doormat isn't because you're weak, it's because you want to control the other person. You're controlling their behavior by being a doormat because when you act in a compromising way, the purpose is control. It's quite a different look. Kind of what Michelle is kind of saying.
Great concise video Michelle 🙌🙌 and you are lookin sooo fine.. absolutely gorgeous 😘😘💝💝💐💐
This makes me feel so upset, bc I played into it. 😢 I tried so hard not to.
You've made some wonderful suggestions on how to handle these people and still keep our dignity.
Exactly that what is happening with me. I am doing all i can and my wife is getting worse every day. She is becoming more and more amusive and angry
Hey can you please make some videos on how to deal with being sooo unloved actually hated for no reason. No support nothing. And I feel so angry and sad but have to deal with everything. And on top of that the main problem I don't remember things now a days I feel lost and headaches. And got a new job and the trainer again was a covert narc he failed me. On the next job again I complained and slightly facing back lash it's just so heartbreaking even after I try to self sooth myself by self councilling but it just hurts a lottt. It's so wierd even my covert narc mom gets supposed by her narc overt mother. And they ruined my family. It just hurts a lot being soooo unloved even after giving so much to these people.
thx so much, your calm talking brings me to a better place in my heart
And not fall for the word vomit they spew so i dont get overwhelmed/confused
Just.... Thank you 😢
Thanks I found this particularly helpful my ex was trying to guilt trip me into removing a video from my channel where I was validating my own feelings. She threatened to call the police for uploading a video expressing my feelings and I was going to remove it because I felt bad but your video really helped my see things from my true perspective I'm not going to feel bad for how she treated me any more.
True! Going it through now!
I think a thing narcissists do is make it seem like if one person is wrong then the other person is right (and they'll make it be them that's right). Compromise typically involves both sides treating it as if they did something that is not compatible with the other person/does not work with the other, then they work out a compromise. I think narcissists actually try and do something so crappy that you feel you're the only one in the wrong (and basically you may well be), so they make you support the idea only one person is in the wrong, then once you've supported it they word salad in an attempt to make it only they have been wronged and you're the one inflicting problems. Ie, they try and push you into a polarized way of thinking then get you to be on the bad end of that polarized thinking.
But with 'sorry you feel that way' I'd avoid that phrase, IMO it's not honest and is a bit gaslightey as a result. I would say abusers use that phrase to pretend apologize for what they did. Just saying 'Ok, you feel that way.' and then continuing the broken record would have the same effect without using a, IMO, problematic phrase.
Great video Michelle!
Thank you. Excellent video.
Me trying to "explain" ( the narrsasist's behaviour.) Response - " you sound like you're talking from a script"
I needed this.
Great content! Thank you for being apart of my learning process about this stuff! I was in a narcissistic relationship a year ago. Many of your videos helped me identify and uncover what I was going through. Thank you
They are toxic people. They will never change this the best way to deal with them is to cut them out of your life if at all possible. If not at least try to work toward that. Every vid I see on these pricks just makes me think why bother with em if you really can help it.
Thank you for this video.
I used to be that way a lot. I'm sorry constantly, I have changed this with some people
THANK YOU! Gah, thank you.
"Confused, but apologizing."
This is such a good video!
Is there a risk of a codependent could become or gain narcissistic tendencies as a survival mechanism for dealing with narcissists?
I struggle alot with feelings of guilt, but have also caugjt myself developing compassion fatigue and finding it increasingly more difficult to have empathy for others. And I can't figure out if I'm just burnt out, or genuinely becoming discompationate.
This is very helpful and letting go completely
“If you don’t want ‘em to Get your Goat, Don’t tell ‘em where it’s Hid.” 1 thing you advise @ (11: 48)is old advice. Psych professors use to teach students to tell their patients to open up & express their feelings, tell your partner the things that they do that bother you , when they do this, it makes you feel that… 🚫NO MORE🆘 If you tell them all the different things they & others do that make you upset or piss you off, then they have the keys to the castle, they will save it & use it against you down the road.
So true ,, I have been (and still) living with covert and overt Narcissists and I could understand all their cunning techniques to break me. That's why their nonsense now no longer affects me. But I'm so sad because it took me 45 years to understand what kind of sewers they've made me live in all this time. I can't forgive them but I will not punish them either.I will leave their punishment to God, for he knows how to take my revenge on them
This!!! Absolutely accurate
Yes, to all of those.
continue MICHELE
There should be concrete action that we can take against narcissists especially if they are bullying us and behaving abusively towards us. Oh they’re just going to do what they want and don’t care if we like it or not. Just how much can people do to us and get away with it ?? Just speaking up and saying we don’t appreciate their behavior doesn’t do much good, because they don’t care. There has to be more concrete consequences when narcissists misbehave towards us, belittle us, bully us, abuse us, and don’t care so they just keep doing it.
The worst part is, this was my best friend. The person I thought was my BEST FRIEND!!
Excellent. You must have a camera in my house...
YESSSSSS! 100%!!
12:03 -- this part seems like a scenario that's actually more likely to defend a covert narcissist than the victim. The covert narcissist is more likely to use non-verbal negative communication (a tantrum or overtly foul mood) to control their partner in a public setting. The partner who has some sense of that dread...might check in once or twice asking "are you ok?" or "what's wrong baby?" but depending on how maligned that narcissist is, this won't be enough and won't push things towards a solution. They might give non-answers and keep on with thier foul mood forcing their victim to fully divert attention to them to make things better - which is narcissistic supply seeking. If you don't directly suspect narcissism, a very healthy person might just recognize it as a sort of tantrum and let it happen. If it's happening your a close/valued friend's birthday or engagement party and leaving after an hour and a half is silly, your partner either needs to clearly communicate what is going on, leave, or suck it up.
Like you said in another part of the video: sometimes it's not my responsibility to make you happy. This other person might be my committed partner, but they should not, on some childish whim try to make me drop everything else important if they aren't in any serious danger. I refuse to be tested by anyone [women] to constantly prove, "you're my #1." They have plenty of evidence of that, and don't hold the power to preempt it for bullshit. If they need it, then they go to therapy to work on why they are still so unregulated.
Good advice
Thank you
Guilt and shame ..its always you're fault
You break a rule..and that is getting angry
So you start shouting and you most apologise...its his rule you break and shame on you ..
But think for the first time at yourself
.and let him apologise..he have never do that..time to change that
Dont feel sorry for him..its is his fault.
And stand to you're point ..
You are better off when you don't talk to much with him ..yes and no with a smile is better
You are it!
Wow, all the things you said in the first two minutes are what has happened in my relationship. Ugh
Then despite the psychological abuse of me, she accuses me of “abusing her” quite often. Getting an apology from her is nearly impossible and I hardly ever remember hearing it
Oh man, as the video goes on, it sounds like what I’ve heard and felt for a long time. Attacked, then I try to defend myself and show I am caring, only to get stuck and derailed again, and discouraged, confused.
Why do we just get as far away from them as possible.
So so so important! I'll translate your video to Hebrew
A logical person needs to not be held accountable for something refused to be proved without being told they need to just accept the obvious (to the person who can't communicate without needless confrontation and needing to look like a boss). It is intrinsic to reconciliation.
We also need to make sure someone isn't subject to manipulation when they seem to have a problem with us.
How do i get out of this? How do i fight myself inside to no fall for the pity party
Question 🙋♂️? Great video topic btw but is it important to stay in your truth for example: If the narcissist tells you how they feel about your actions towards them and it is totally not the truth and is completely negative is it right to stand by your truth and tell them your truth of your actions but also tell them you respect how they feel ? What should I/ we say so we feel like we stood up for our truth and didn’t give them the satisfaction that they could gas light us . Thank you for your advice 😏🦋
Also saying “I’m sorry you feel that way is almost a slight dismissive way of saying covertly “, Your Wrong but I feel I’m right” instead I feel it’s best to just say I respect your thoughts and how you feel”... then you can explain in a non/ judemental way about your truth without telling them they are wrong for how they feel. What do you think ? Thanks again for your advice
Yes please! I want to learn too! If you find anything let me know through this comment so i can get notification!
Is it ok when you ask a friend to help you, and they offer their help ALONG WITH covert guilt-tripping?
To put it more clearly.
I once needed financial help from a friend (it was a real emergency, or I would sleep on the streets).
She helped me, but 2 to 3 days later, she complained to me that the bank clerks were not leaving them (at home) to sleep, because they were asking for their loan to be paid on time. I returned her the full amount of the borrowed money within a month. During that month, she often complained to me that at home they only had food to feed their animals (p.s. that she and her family had to suffer hunger) and that she was struggling to mend (patcht) her children's clothes to keep them dressed.
Another time, she stayed with me late at night to chat with me, and the very next day she complained of having sufferd vomiting and epileptic seizures from having stayed awake for too long.
Why does all this sound "off'' and a bit scary to me ?
Could these behaviors be guilt-tripping?
Thank you in advance.
I really just want to be kinhd to people.
Kind people are the whipping boys.
Why is our world like this.
Can someone with C-PTSD
uncured. Give another person C-PTSD?
I’m not the abuser, I’m not asking my cheating husband to return. Jason’s family is the reason I sought NPD and boundaries. I felt him cheating, the energy. Mandy is still in the computer, I’m going through divorce because my husband cheated, broke things to cause a reaction, I think I’m being drugged, and I can’t go to anyone for protection. It’s all her now, and you believed I’m the abuser. God isn’t going to save me because no one believes in God. Help me, tell the truth.
How about when they guilt you for not forgiving them. That's tough.
3:03
Who care about the narcs.kick them all to the kerb!
OMG make the typing noise stop please
There is no good nor bad people, just joyful and miserable people according to Sadhguru. However, my qualities of a joyful person have been taking advantage of by covert, narcissistic mother. I ended apologizing for reactions she caused herself. I will be more wary of her guilt-tripping as I cope living with her until I get my chance to escape from her.
You make some good point here, HOWEVER, the comment "I'm sorry you feel that way" is a hallmark comment of a narcissist! A non-narcissist would not say that comment!
Don't like the word/type effect. Very distracting. VERY distracting.