The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist, Featuring Debbie Mirza
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- Опубліковано 23 жов 2023
- Today Dr. C interviews author Debbie Mirza on her book, The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist. She describes what this pattern consists of, and the two of them discuss ways to stay out of their unique manipulations.
To learn more about Debbie, visit her website at www.debbiemirza.com/.
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, TX. For 40+ years he maintained a counseling practice in Dallas, conducting more than 65,000 therapy sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
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You do get a weird energy vibe from them. They can say and do everything right, but something isn't right and you can feel it.
Amen‼️A recent person I dated had an immediate off vibe, equivalent to feeling turned off by them but also liking them at the same time. Lots of boundary testing early on which also produces off-vibes.
Exactly. Looking back, I had sooo many moments my gut was telling me something wasn't right. If I had heard, or even knew in the slightest, there was such a word as narcissism, I'd have ran the other way at the first sign, which would have been our 1st date. I was robbed of 30yrs of my life...13 of which was a never-ending divorce, until he drank our company in the ground, himself 4yrs later. He wanted to make sure I got nothing, all the while destroying my relationship with our 3 children. But, I was seeing the same traits in my oldest and youngest. Might be horrible to say, but I pray none of them have children. It's time for this lineage to be buried.
Yep!!!!!
They say all the right things but there is no emotion behind the words . They fall flat
💯💯💯💯and they think that they can hide it. It’s incumbent upon us to pay attention to our intuition. We always ignore/suppress it.
Maybe one way to recognize a covert narcissist is to pay attention to how often they disappoint or let you down in different situations.
Good advice
How many times did they p*ss on your parade? Suck the happy out of your moment? If I have an event or something I'm looking forward to, he will try all sorts of ways for me to feel horrible doing something for me while pretending he supports me. Just because it makes ME happy never counts or makes him feel...anything.
I have so many examples of this!
If covert narcissism was punishable by law. My mother would be in prison for attempted murder. That’s truly what it feels like to me.
Me too. My Mom is such a strange covert narc that she is also “allergic to electricity” (like Chuck McGill) and pretends to “suffer from” this fake condition called EMS so she can always be the victim. Mom also believes Earth is flat, we never went to the moon, the stars are all fake, and gravity is not real. She also believes she is a “sovereign citizen” which means she doesn’t think our laws apply to her. We are estranged. My twin brother is her golden child and he is her protégé.
Ditto, and my sister as well. 60+ years of abuse and they deny all the evil they do to me and to others! Truly malignant people!
M. Scott Peck, of People of the Lie, called this soul murder. The killing of a child's spirit
@@RavenStealstheNight deep.
Yes, they murdered your soul, Angil mind, and your psych
My narcissistic father was so abusive that I was suicidal at age 14.
One day we washed and dried dishes. He was verbally abusive.
I turned towards him, drying a big Santoku knife, looked him straight in the eye and said “If you ever hit me again, I will hit back”. Must have scared the heck out of him.
I moved out at age 19. Growing up in a communist country, you couldn’t rent apartments. You had to apply to the government at age 18, to receive one, which took years.
The day I turned 18, I registered, studied the housing law and found a loop hole by which they had to provide me an apartment instantly. You had to present them with 50 abandoned apartments and commit to renovating them at your own cost. I provided 100 and finally got one after a year.
My borderline mother was “worried” that I wouldn’t make it on my own.
She wasn’t worried. She was angry to lose her housemaid, free babysitter and punching bag as I often had to defend her against my dad.
I’ve been no contact with them for many years, even live abroad.
My mother still sabotages my life, in cahoots with my narcissistic ex husband.
They get zero response from me. I’m healed enough to understand their actions. I no longer need their love, approval or understanding. Life is so much happier and healthier without them.
GREAT JOB doing all that for yourself at such a young age and maintaining your strong boundaries!!
You are one warrior for sure. My respects to you❤
You are brave & I am so happy you are living a healthier life. It is not an easy journey especially at such a young age. I’m proud of you, no one deserves abuse in any form. We all make mistakes and aren’t perfect, but we don’t make abusing someone a goal in life. God Bless you!
Good for you! They loose their heads and are not courageous when you assert. It's a joke. I had police escort me out of my parents house the last day I lived in it. They never apologized for that or trying to kick out my partner when we stayed after our wedding. What a mistake that turned out to be! Me thinking things would get better. Nope. Back then we didn't really have an understanding as we do today about all this behavioural garbage. It's not the way to live in this beautiful world. It's a meaningless lifestyle they choose and impress on their surroundings. To this day, remnants of my 'family' still behave poorly and can't communicate without resorting to gossip, badmouthing and gas-lighting everything I do. Can't rely on them for medical emergencies.
I am so very sorry ...I feel your pain. My mother was cold & unavailable and I actually tried to take my life age 12. Still hard to talk about, think about. Hugs to you.
“I’m a very selfish person but I’m not going to let you know it.” Sums it up perfectly.
I see exactly what she is now.
Not just selfishness. There are many aspects of an N.
"Learn to trust your body. With the covert narcissist its not always obvious but our bodies feel it." . . . . so freakin trueeeeee
They make me physically ill.... just being around them. They are sick humans.
I was in a long relationship with a covert narcissist and over the last few years where her behavior and treatment of me got progressively worse I developed terrible anxiety that would manifest as uncontrollable sweating or an upset stomach. When I finally ended the relationship those symptoms went away basically overnight and it felt like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. It would be hard for me to believe this kind of thing is even possible if I hadn't lived through it.
Exactly.You'll always end up getting that uncomfortable "gut feeling" from not being at ease.
That's Soooo very true, I went through it this morning !!!
BEST advice EVER
Covert narcissists do have boundaries (and woe betide anyone who violates theirs), yet expect their narcissistic supply-sources not to possess any. Covert narcs tell you others' secrets, never their own.
Why did the narcissist cross the road? They thought it was a boundary.
Much love and respect to Team Healthy.
The joke is hilarious! So true.
@rg-mi5hh Someone else posted this comment on another narcissistic abuse recovery channel. I laughed for days and decided to share. Every viable healing method, CBT, therapy, music, and laughter that helps us recover ought to be indulged.
OK then, it's joke time...
Q: What's the difference between a narcissist and a battery?
A: A battery has a positive side.
@@davidrobert2007 😃!!
Yes indeed they have boundaries but don’t respect yours
I read Debra’s book last year while going through a divorce (after 25 years of marriage). I cried through the entire book because I was shocked that what I went through, someone else went through! Your words gave me strength, encouragement, and peace…I was finally seen and known by someone. I’m sorry that anyone experiences this, but I’m so grateful you wrote this book! Being married to an abusive “Christian Nice Guy” is the most difficult thing to explain to others. Thank you, for sharing and saving others.
Religious narcs are the worst. I know too well. God bless
Relating, but the thing I have learned is that they are not fooling as many people as they think. Real Christians always caught on, something wasn't right...
I can so relate, you're not alone.❤
Oh this was marriage too. My ex husband was so nice and to me too but his manipulative behavior came to a head when he turned 60. I was no longer the woman he wanted and went after a woman 10 years younger and a social worker. Both of them knew better but had the affair anyway.
❤
I like saying to narcissists :
" Thank you for your Opinion ".
It arrests them, because they think their words are LAW, when in fact, its just their opinion !
😅🤣😂😆
I can relate to the silent treatment....boy can I relate to the silent treatment
I got the silent treatment that turned into an explosion. Worst of both worlds !
@@m.maclellan7147 Sorry to hear. Mine was mostly silent treatment, passive aggressive and pulled his family into the crazy making. Thanks for the dialogue.
Amen!
Mine was so locked down emotionally I felt like I was in the presence of a soul vampire. I needed the give and take of healthy emotional connection but, it was all me sharing and looking for intimacy to literally get nothing back in return. As long as we were going out, she’s having fun, and I don’t show any chink in my armor all was just peachy. If I emoted about lack of connection, seeming trust, depression brought in by lack of empathy I’d get silence. Here common excuse when things were stressed was “I get quiet.” Shed just shut down. Not a lick of empathy to be had. So heartbreaking when I was so in love (trauma bonded) with her and wanted the happily ever after I tried way too hard to get my needs met. My sorry would come to a head and just when the most important conversation could have happened, she'd wait until I was at work, pack her stuff, and I would come home to an empty house. I got completely ghosted…completely abandoned!😢
I chased and got her back 13x's! First woman after spouse of 25 years and at first life with her was amazing (love bombed).
The longer this went on the sicker (disregulated) inside I became and the more desperate, loud, and finally unfortunately it got physical, grabby, pulling, pushing, breaking stuff, thank God no hitting.
The silent treatment is HELL! She ended it again on Dec 23. I blocked her completely. No coming back this time. You know, if you keep doing the same things over you get the same results.
Im working on me now. I was too insecure to leave when my needs weren't being met all those years ago. Could it gave worked if Id been more securely attached? Maybe, but I wasn't the only person she had ghosted so, definitely a RED flag!
God bless and help you all heal. Thanks for letting me rant.🙏
Same! Mine gave me the silent treatment for OVER A YEAR in private (but pretended it wasn't happening in public with mutuals) and the SECOND I asked what was wrong, i the first thing out of her mouth was really mean blaming. And when I calmly said that was a shame and said I felt similar so hurray we found common ground let's talk, then it was shouting and explosions. It's the last thing we ever said to each other. Wild bc she was the one who taught me not to put up with that.
I agree, having been raised by narcissists and lived in a culture of narcissism all my life I have seen all of these things. The emotional abuse is far worse than physical battery because everyone can see the physical results of this, but when its emotional most people do not believe you. They assume we are overreacting or misreading things because of our own flawed character.
Don’t turn off your intuition. If you feel wronged then you are entitled to make the wrong stop. ❤
Very true
Also frankly there're a lot of toxic types of people out there that will happily try to gaslight you if you tell them what happened to you.Just walk away from people that don't even care enough to try to learn about what you've been through &/or people that are themselves determined to live in complete denial at least until they themselves get victimized so badly by 1 of these monsters that they CAN'T look away anymore🙄. There's a few healthy caring folks that WILL make the effort to understand what you've gone through🙂...But anyway you don't owe ANYONE your personal life details, it's completely up to you if you wish to tell others👍🏻.
This really captures what I went through. While walking to my 70th birthday dinner I asked him to slow down because I was wearing my favorite heeled boots. Without turning around, he said, "Well you should have worn flats" and kept on going. This is just one example of the hundreds of sarcastic comments that I allowed. I am trying to get over the shame I feel for allowing myself to tolerate this person. I know now that I was in the discard phase and I finally left 10 months ago when he started swearing at me. I am slowly trying to get myself back. I have learned so much from this discussion and your channel, Dr. Carter.
So good that you have escaped, but unpleasant as they are, those horrible memories will help you rejoice in the fact that you have got away from the narc.
@freeportgirl
No shame, if you understood what you were dealing with...really understood, you would have made different choices. We can absolutely feel free to give ourselves all the grace and time we need to learn, heal, learn more and heal yet another layer. I don't believe it's all about them, I allowed the atrocious behavior for a reason. Understanding and healing THAT is the key ❤
@bekind7288 You are absolutely right, as hard as it is to hear that you had something to do with it. That is how you heal and never look back. It wasn't only his behaviour that I tolerated. I was attracting narcs on so many levels of my life. It was me that needed to heal and come to terms with why I was attracting this negativity into my life. What a wake-up call that was!! ❤ As they say in Costa Rica, "Pura vida" ( Pure life)!!
So glad you left!
@@trying2survive602 999
If you abandon a narcissist, they will try to punish you for life. The abuse got so bad that I had to go no contact. Narcissists can't be reasonable. It's their way or no way at all. That's not a relationship. They want total submission. I had to leave to be free.
Coverts can be extremely dangerous too though even when you go no contact. They’ll send their flying monkeys to try and get information from you and/or contact your employers if they know where you work to get you fired. We really have no clue what they’re up to. I was cheated on and something in my gut told me not to confront her about it and just make a quiet exit. So I did just that. God only knows what she’s up to now lol
When you leave*. It's the vulnerable narcs calling it abandonment. I will never forget when I broke up with mine, left him and our life entirely after six years of the worst psychological abuse and he kept messaging me that I 'abandoned' him.
They like to use 'abandonment' to guilt us into staying longer.
I Have been the recipient of the weeks-long silent treatment. If course, it never happened until after we were married. He kept all of the red flags under wraps until we were married. Then there's the passive aggressive holiday thing, like refusing to acknowledge Mother's Day, "you're not my mother." It's depressing to realize I squandered my entire adult life in someone who the world thinks is a great guy, but has left me living in pain.
You're not alone. I know one woman who never even dares ask for him to consider her on mother's Day! She can count all the Christmases, birthdays and anniversaries where he actually showed up for her on one hand. He's perfectly happy to withhold communication and refuse reciprocity, while he's acknowledged on all of his important days.
So sorry to hear that. I'm at 32 years and I'm making plans to leave.
I was always waiting for the next episode of silence. He would say he was just thinking.
The last ST lasted 5 wks during which his mother passed away and the funeral was held.
Then he sat down and said “We need to find a way to end This”
By then 10 yrs into marriage and 2 yrs prior - I just said “if that’s what you want”
I was over it and tired of being emotionally drained.
That was almost a year ago and divorce still not final. But I get monthly check and still on medical benefits.
Lovebombing.. then all the things start to be said (never physical) 😢.. they all say exactly the same phrases, after 35 years I'd have to believe it's more than a disorder, it's demonic
You’re comment hit home - really hard. I’ve heard the same comment to him about Mother’s Day. Also, like you, Im ashamed I’ve wasted my life with this man who doesn’t appear to give a hill of beans about me 90% of the time. He has used me to meet his ends.
The much older Covert Narcissist married me for 20 years. Many women were jealous of me. He never consummated the marriage and just used me as a slave. He abused me verbally daily. I ran away three times but told him where I was two times. Finally I went to a lawyer who helped me get away safely. Best thing I ever did for my young life.
Is he gay... It's a real possibility that he was using you as a cover
Well done for getting away
“You were recast” “You are of no use to a narcissist when you are getting stronger”
Wow! This is eye opening! Thank you!
My former husband told me, I can't STAND who you have become!
Wow. It seems he is threatened by my becoming older, wiser and more courageous? 🤔
Every birthday, mother's day, special occasion, every new years, joy over a new house always gets destroyed sooner or later.
When my therapist said for the first time she thinks I'm dealing with a narcissist, it was so hard to believe. He was such a nice person, or not? Sometimes he was not, but there would be always a good explanation why.
It still terrifies me that I can relate to every single thing mentioned in this video, the painful silent treatment, the tears on birthdays, the attention shifts when I was dealing with some issues in life - he always became depressed so I ended up caring for him. I'm so glad I'm out. Thank you so much for videos like this, it is so hard to explain covert narcissist abuse and here I feel understood.
Your post is precisely my story! Its so hard to put into words the horror of it all... because it's not 💯
I started searching online for narcissism & reading books on daughters of narcs 20 years ago, but I only found info on overts so I didn't believe she could be a narcissist, even when a therapist suspected it. Not until 3 years ago did I find info on coverts...ding ding ding- my mother checked every box. The research just wasn't there 20 years ago. Thank goodness we have education on it today. So grateful. Knowledge saved my life.
@@Dove-gx5gz It was very similar for me! I started searching due to my therapist suggestions, but the overt description was not very fitting, some bits yes but not enough for me to be convinced. One day my friend sent me a video on covert narcissism and then things started making sense.
I'm glad you found your answers and it saved you. It must be very hard when the narcissistic person in your life is your own mother.
@ivizz100 Thank you so much for your kindness & empathy ❤️ I am grateful you kept seeking answers & found knowledge, help and healing, too! 🕊
There comes a time when they turn overt - Nasty ! They are mega aggressive . You can end up shaking, even though nothing in their spoken words is wrong. It's the tone they use.
Yes, that shaking. Yikes.
Thank you for pointing that out! Explains what sometimes happens to me too. Every time that sort of thing happens to me until now I had been blaming myself while wondering what I must have done wrong. Then from there I often expend way too much energy and mental space and time trying to change myself to avoid the same thing from ever happening again in the fuiture. Like the other day a few months ago when a complete stranger to me who was walking on another nearby sidewalk near the rapid transit train platform which we were both walking away from whom I hadn't noticed until then started yelling at me to get my attention while she was holding up her cell phone in the air. She said, "If you do not stop stalking me I am going to bring this video of it to mainstream media." Instead of me shrugging it off right away I started thinking to myself, am I not dressing and acting feminine looking enough in public? Did I not keep enough space between me and all other strangers while taking public transit on the way there? Or was I only not planning my week well enough to avoid indecision and unstable people too more often as result when I was undecided that day about going grocery shopping or home in the other direction from that platform? Instead of shrugging it off I thought that it was my responsiblity to remember each and every moment of my day in complete detail to learn what I had done wrong to deserve such shoddy treatment coming from her. Now thanks to your truth telling I am finally done with that.
Yes! I reacted when she said covert don’t yell, or call u names. Oh boy, the rage he showed was crazy
I left my narcissistic husband 3 months ago, after being tortured by him for 42 years. He started giving me the silent treatment when we got engaged - for weeks, months, and even for more than half a year. I didn't know that the silent treatment had a name then. He tortured me emotionally, physically, financially .....in every way he could. He gave my children the silent treatment, too but I used to take their attention away from him so they didn't notice anything when they were young. I protected them. He also belittled me, insulted, imitated, gaslighted, laughed at me, hit me..... He spent my salery, as well as his. I usually didn't have more than $5 or none at all. He usually arrived home after he had eaten somewhere and I almost never had enough food for me and my two children. I'm 64, a retired teacher, in a small rented apartment and I'm much much better now. I'm trying to heal myself completely, if that's possible. My adult children support me because they have seen some things that couldn't be hidden by me. They are my everything
You are very strong. I’m praying for continued healing, peace and joy for you. Thank you for sharing your story, hopefully it will help many others. 🤍🙏🏻
OMG, your story is totally my deceased sister’s story after 28 years of living in a unhappy and toxic marriage. except her snake ex-narcissist husband is still living and never worked. He is now manipulating and living off the younger women that he cheated on my sister with. I’m so very sorry that you’ve had to endure this evilness but God will see you through as my sister met another man, and got married again before she passed away in 2017.
@@fateofkate691 I'm so sorry that your sister lived for so long with a narcissist. You were her support, bravo to you! I'm sorry she passed away after finding a good man. But know that she felt loved by you and her husband - and that is very important. I left my narcissistic husband, and he never loved me and that is a terrible feeling. I'll stay single and I don't know how long I'll live, but at least I'm not with an abusive husband any more. Be thankful that she knew that she was loved very much by you and her husband!
Thank goodness you’re out. ❤🙏🙏🙏
For those of us who had a parent that was a covert narc, it looks something like this. Age 0-10 you unconditionally love them, though you suffered without understanding why. Age 10-20 you realize something is very wrong, and you act out, but you don't really know how to appropriately deal with all of it. Age 20-30 you realize that distancing yourself is key and you do a lot of reflection and introspection. Age 30-40 you now have insight and boundaries and still hope for eventual reconciliation. Age 40-50 you realize the narc's condition is not redeemable and they will never change. Age 50 and beyond, I'm not there yet...but I hope it's a narcissist free life with full healing and empathy for others.
Yes
You got it
Can see my life like you laid out to a T
Just got to have strong boundaries and very high fences
I severely limit my exposure to my mother
My father slightly that way too
I am soo sad and ashamed about how I acted and treated my first wife and children not realizing how much damage I was doing to them
Have been slowly rebuilding and repairing relationships with my 2 grown sons
And praying to God to show me how to continue to mature in and through Him
Blessings to You on Your Journey
Very well put
This was so relatable
Pretty much to a T. I decided I had had enough by my mid-40s when boundaries I had set up were not being respected no matter how many times I said, "Please stop doing xyz". After four years of no contact, my kids urged me to try and reestablish a relationship. I did reach out to her (mom) only to find I was no longer needed or wanted because she had my brother.
How much more obvious do the narcs have to make it that your boundaries mean NOTHING to them?!?@@heathers8826
The covert passive aggressive narc is, in my opinion, the most dangerous narc outside of the malignant narc. You have to be very shrewd to see and understand what they are doing. The good part is they will discard you when you SEE and do not feed into their tactics.
My cat knows more about deep sea diving than the passive aggressive covert narc knew about being human. Still have my cat. No regrets. One life. Live it. Much love and peace to team healthy.
I read her book soon after a very sad ending to a narcissistic marriage. It really opened up my eyes to this type of person. I'm not exaggerating to say she saved me. Thanks so much, Ms. Mirza.
Me, too! The book was eye opening! ❤
Me too ❤️
Yea!! Yippee! Glad you were helped! The narcs want the opposite.
I dated an older divorced man who was very charming. Everyone loved him. Well, I soon realized why his first wife left him. He was controlling and manipulative in a very sweet way as if he were protecting me. When I finally got out of the relationship, our mutual friends blamed me and completely overlooked the 15 year age gap and the fact that I wanted children and he didn’t. He made himself the victim. And he was a covert narcissist.
He made himself the victim. Ain''t that just about it?! snake.
It is almost shocking to learn that you came from a family of mean men, Dr. Carter. This helps many of us to have hope as we trudge forward trying overcome our own families' dysfunction.
Dr. C is "Captain Cycle Breaker" with his sidekick "Gus The Amazingly Chill Terrier" 😎
My personal family are empathy…my dad remarried to a narc, my brothers wife is a narc and my husbands ex wife is a full blown narc and two out of four stepchildren are just like their bio mom….I’m tired of these sick people.
Thank you both. The fact that the family unit has been ,in my opinion systematically destroyed by our people under manipulation in all aspects of our government has a part to play in the rise of this mental and emotional disease. It's so sad and I hope these trends disappear with acknowledgment and exposure..Thank you for all you do.
My ex covert narcissist on my birthday during the first covid lockdown said to me ‘I don’t know why people like you so much’ after friends drove by and dropped little gifts off on the front step.
Yes! It irks them to no end that no one likes them…but everyone likes you! They have no friends & have run off many over the years. You, being a genuinely nice, caring & empathetic person, have loads of friends who love you & whom you’ve cultivated over a lifetime. Good for you. Can you imagine saying such a horrible thing to the person you “love”? Never!
The tricky thing is that it is hard to distinguish between: 1) a Debbie-Downer (a habitual, anxious negator who has a normal emotional capacity to love others), 2) someone who has trod that road before and just wants to warn you, and 3) the covert narc who is undermining you because your diminishment brings them supply. The covert narc plays at being the other two types and it can be years before you figure out that they have no regard for you and they are strategically working to convince you that you are weak and incompetent.
“Your diminishment brings them supply” ….that’s it!!!
It’s taken me years to understand the constant silent treatment and contempt. I hit the wall after 15 years and chose to get out. Glad to be married to a mature adult now. Stay strong friends. There is peace on the other side.
Oh wow, that's such a clarifying way to put it! And also very reassuring, as I myself have fallen into the first two categories at one time or another, and that along with some other narcissistic tendencies/habits has really fed into anxiety that maybe I'm a narcissist like my parents after all, and am just hiding it from myself. But as far as I'm aware, even when I was lashing out or re-enacting a parent's criticism with others (thought I was helping lol), when it upset them, that just made me feel worse. Might have even been a twisted form of self-harm. So yeah, thank you for laying it out like this. It was a rough day, and now I feel a little better ❤
When you try to introduce boundaries, that’s when the violence starts.
Oh wow!!!
Debbie's book was the 1st book I bought 5 years ago to understand what had happened to me.
She's a lovely loving woman and so are you Dr C.
You've both been a huge part of my recovery from Scapegoat to becoming a Black Stallion!!!
Thank you both for this interview.
Hugs to all survivors!!!!
Thanks so much. Debbie is a delightful person!
@@SurvivingNarcissism
Yes she is Dr Carter, and so are you!
You're a delightful person w a caring heart.
Grateful for both of you beautiful people.
This literally just happened to me 2 days ago. It was my 47th birthday, the narcissist still clinging to me REFUSED to wish me a happy birthday. He literally ruined my bday, I ended up crying most of the day and night. Thank you for helping me feel seen ❤
A belated:💌
_HAPPY BIRTHDAY_ 💐MsMogozilla🎁💎
Happy Birthday!🎊 🎊 🎉
There has been an overwhelming run of birthdays here lately. You are in good company of well-wishers. If you are around TH next year, I’ll try to wish you one on time.
🎉 Happy birthday
My birthday was ruined too I'm sorry this happened
I hope you have an amazing rest of your year and Happy birthday anyway! Darn that person 😡
No use to a narcissist unless you are weak. Wow.
I spent my childhood placating my mom and my own motherhood, placating my son.
I wish I had broken that pattern, but didn't recognize it til now.
This is my story too. 😢
@mysonsmom9754 my son is my only child , so I gotta know that I contributed to him being this way as I raised him by myself. Lots if pain and guilt await.
This is my relationship with my mum 100%. A very clever, manipulative, covert narcissist. And you wouldn’t believe how she could be so two faced - I didn’t see it, didn’t want to. But I felt it, and the many losses it delivered… it took me a long time to see. Passive aggressive silent treatment. Yes. That’s hard. It’s so immature. It’s very abusive. Thanks for spelling this out so well.
You are victorious. What I do not understand is why some people when growing up in that unhealthy climate choose to pattern their behavior the same way isntead of remaining determined to live a healthier lifestyle for themselves when they become adults. The good news is that most human beings who grow up in an unhealthy climate in the home choose growing in a much healthier direction sometimes after only one person in their lifetime like a school teacher in one grade has behaved better that that towards them.
The silent treatment is an opportunity for you to go no contact. Before you understood narcissism it was painful because you were in a codependent relationship with the narcissist. After you stop needing any validation from a narcissist it gets easier to cut the narcissist out of your life. When my dad started to ghost me I went from limited contact to full no contact.
Me too. You described it exactly. I'm so sorry you went through the same thing I did ❤️
Blah blah. Your generation are constantly screeching about all of the narcs. Please. Look in the mirror.
I had a SIL who would take me ( 'helping me") and ALWAYS say the 1 worst thing to sabotage ne.. it gave her Satisfaction ( malice)!
Passive aggressive .....what a name to give these sneaky creatures .
@@Unhappypeoplesaymeanthings sneaky creatures !!
@@texaspatty458 same sound as (snake).
@@myhalowithin ...I agree 💯👍
People fight in many different ways for the right to abuse you in many different ways! A Boundary is your shield, but your abuser will see it as a sword!
My ex always went away for my Birthday weekend and Valentine's Day.
He would also pick arguments when we were on our way to a social gathering. We'd arrive and he would transform into a happy charming person instantly while I would be standing there staring at him wondering what the heck just happened?!?
If it would have been a healthy relationship, he would have stayed back with me to talk things through. Or at least he would have asked to wait until later.
Thank you, Debbie and as always Dr. Carter. Paying attention to the body is so important as Debbie stated!! For years, as the fall and winter holidays neared, I would feel great apprehensive and depression knowing that I would be facing family gatherings at my in-laws where everything seemed ideal, but actually was filled with the most expert covert, passive aggressive narcissists there can be. I would become filled with negative emotions when I went there and would get sick and go find bedroom where I could lie down. I felt worse and worse about myself as the years went by. My husband was a highly trained military officer with advanced studies in military science, so I got double whammy from his tactics from that and the ones he learned growing up. The pain caused by these phony self serving people is debilitating. Recovery after years of this abuse can be slow but the progress is real and the pain lessens.
Going through a divorce right now with one. It's so emotionally draining. Been with her for over a decade and did not realize she was a covert narcassist at all until we had a son. Always knew she was controlling & jealous but I just had no idea this personality type existed. The problem is once you recognize them they turn hard and fast and will suck the life out of you, even if you try to ignore them....
Also, she is spot on - once you get stronger you are of no use to them. Once you set boundaries good luck.
LOVE your collaborations with Dr. Ramani, Rebecca Chung, and now Debbie Mirza... all Key Players in my journey to Team Healthy. So grateful for access to your wisdom, experience, and encouragement.
Thank you so much Dr. Carter!
Dr Ramani is a psychopath. Look at her eyes
It's a beautiful thing, indeed
My ex-boyfriend was one, but I was "trained" by my family, so it's important to talk about this in light of early environment as you did. Thank you both.
I was a moderator for the late Angie Atkinson on her channel, and also Dana Morningstar on her channel, Thrive After Abuse. So was my wife. What we found puzzling was many courageous survivors would talk readily about their romantic narcs.. but hadn't made the connections back to the narcs in their family of origin. So I'm happy and glad you recognized yours. Granted, we did have people that understood the reality of a narc parent, or saw the dysfunction repeated by a child. So there was some victories to celebrate. I hope I'll read more about your successes in the future. Best wishes to healing and a joyful life moving forward.
@@jaklumenangie saved my life in the early days of my discard! I listened to her every day for hours just for some comfort. It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. I feel so much for kids that are raised this way. I am so blessed my family is relatively normal and healthy mentally and physically. There are so many unhealthy people out there.
I thoroughly enjoyed this interview. I noticed that Debbie Mirza often said things that I think about all the time. She said that "our bodies always feel it" and she is exactly correct. I hope she comes back for further discussions.Thanks to you both.
I read Bessel van derkolk book, the body keeps the score, very helpful.👍💜
@@iw9338 Thank you so much! I'll look for it! 😃👍
“We are not in their lives for connection, love and harmony.” Wow. Never looked at it like that and how futile to seek and fight for that from them. They will never, can never give that to the target person.
This is my story! Married for 30 years and just discovered the person I thought loved me for so many years, is not the person I thought I married. It's so painful and shocking, but Debbie's book has helped educate me so I can start moving forward knowing the real truth. Eyes Wide Open-Thank you to you both for sharing this incredibly important information to all of us who are in these types of relationships. Such a powerful video! Coverts are so cunning and deceptive, it is so easy to miss. I missed it for 30 years! I refuse to not be a survivor. I'm looking forward to an incredible journey toward my future surrounded by people who can give and receive compassion, empathy and love. When you make a change, there is hope!
Thanks for Sharing, I'm currently going through a nightmare divorce from a Covert, of course he lies continually. God Strengthen me🙏
My mother cut my heart meds in half as a baby . Did the same to my father then over medicated him 4 times more than an adult should be given. I’m an only child and so now my Dad has passed on and now I’m caring for my Mother . She is exactly the title of your book . I’m 64 years old and waiting to have a life with my husband of 42 years. He is blamed for everything that has gone wrong.
My first wife was a covert passive aggressive narcissist. I was constantly gaslighted to the point I was always miserable.
There is a narcissistic tactic that I never see discussed and I want to share it in case it is helpful to others: narcissists will pout and wallow in self-pity as a disguise for remorse. I used to perpetually forgive abusive behavior because my ex seemed to show signs of guilt and contrition. Years later I realized that he was feeling bad for himself only. At times his guilt seemed performative, like "look at how sad I am; look at how deeply remorseful I feel right now." Somehow I was blind to the fact that he never once apologized to me for anything. Nor did he ever take partial responsibility for any disagreement or misunderstanding (not even one single time). Most importantly, I've come to learn that when someone stomps on my feet, the normal caring response would be something like, "oh my goodness, I'm sorry, are you OK, can I get you something to help?" The narc instead would say, "i'm sad for stomping on your feet. Look how sad I look. Can anyone be more sad than I am now. What can I do to look more sad?"
I really liked this format, Dr. Carter. It is as if Debbie is an actual patient in the room with you, and we as third party get to sit in. Debbie is very authentic and low key and she taught me how overwhelmed and frantic I was in those 40 years…thank you Debbie & Dr. Carter.
Narcissists always want hugs. It feels like they want your support after they intentionally hurt you. I can understand they are jerks but it is another level when they touch you. I can’t imagine being married to them. It literally sickens me when my mom touches me.
Passive aggressive behavior is one of the first things you will notice. High defensive stance becomes offensive every time.
Sure wish I'd "seen" it sooner....
She nailed it when she said that narcissists destroy birthdays and holidays. They do not change! Get away. Value your self and celebrate the good people in your life. ❤
After years of it, you feel dismantled by them and undeserving of even the smallest most basic form of love. They are empty and heartless and will starve you of the love they know you need and will enjoy watching you wither and die alone, isolated, alienated and in pain. They are cruel monsters.
The conflict with my partner increased when I started seeing a therapist and became healthier. A healthy person would have celebrated with me, instead of trying to "put me back to my place", which is subordinate to him.
The narc and empath share an unspoken language between them
Debbie just oozes kindness so likeable.genuine God bless her kind heart
Another way to look at narcissism is weakness. It makes it easier to assert your boundaries or just walk away. Weakness always attacks strength.
Before I finally knew I needed to leave my 23 year marriage (to my high school boyfriend), I googled questions like "are there nice narcissists?", because he would do charitable things for public consumption, but the digs he would give to me... quietly push my buttons as well as mean and hurtful remarks, silent treatment until I blew-up and terrified my kids, myself... were driving me to passive s.i.
It got worse after I left and this has been for 10+ years. I will save that story for another book, but I can very much relate to this video. Im so sorry for others going through it. It's very much an issue you discover in hindsight, unfortunately.
It sounds like he may have been a communal narcissist with the public philanthropy.
I googled, “What makes a 65 year old man act like a toddler?” Google’s reply, “Narcissism!” So after 20 years, it took only 2 seconds to name the hell I was living in… That’s when it all broke loose.
With my husband, his goodness and kindness acts were always to garner attention back to him to make him and his image look good or better.
Amen!!so very well said. His depressions that suddenly occured during my pregnancies. Mother's day happening and never once being acknowledged as a mother. The birthday lunch together but him being involved on his phone with his buddies. There's so much of the "little things" of life that aren't getting spoken! Keep talking! You both are so spot on. The extreme grief that's felt when your eyes are finally opened. Like it's been said....there is no unseeing! For those going through this now, be prepared to accept the hurtful and harsh reality that you were never truly cherished. My heart cries for each hurting heart that's coming to this realization.
Discovering this topic (by accident) obviously came with an overwhelming flood of emotions, and as horrifying as it was to be reading right there in black & white, words on a page that we’re describing my then husband perfectly ( including the bizarre stuff that I had been shrugging off because up until then so much of his behavior had been totally unexplainable…. I’d soldier on) I’ll never forget the exact moment I had the very same realization of what you just said; that if what I was so frantically trying to explain to our friends and families (both in my defense to explain his behavior away) was true and how much of his narcissistic personality matched with these seriously pathological people… then he never loved me. That all of the decade plus I thought I was with my soulmate and in love …. It was all one sided.
Talk about devastating. Honestly though, that’s what enabled me to flip the switch, and almost instantaneously I felt disgusted. I didn’t want to be with someone who didn’t love me and my daughter. We were trophies for his ego. I couldn’t believe the thing that hurt me the most, figuring that out, was the very thing that opened the doors to my cage and set me free. Incredible.
As I listen, memories of abuse come to my mind and I’m saying to myself, oh, now I see it. Wow! It’s all true. 😮
Smooth intonation is something to watch for - a ticket to deception for the covert narc.
BINGO for me! Passive aggressive, Yup, but the passive aggression becomes more like constant aggression as time goes by. 37 years, just started seeing his true self in 2017. Thank you for validating what I thought it was, but has now moved on to much worse. Almost weird experiencing this. Thank you for the information.
It is very weird when you realize how much they fit these patterns. When you look back and see what went on, how it was real, it is hard to believe.
First off, I loved this video but secondly the main thing I took away from this video is that Narcs will seek out kind people that don't like conflict or won't stand up to a bully. I think it's so sad.
@12:30 that is interesting. I've started ignoring the "I'm so depressed" moods, which were oddly coincidental with times I was doing something for myself, or going somewhere, etc. They've decreased. I will say, "I'm sorry you are feeling bad" and then just go do my thing. (Church etc.)
I had no idea I was married to a covert narcissist for 15 years. I kept asking myself how can a "nice" guy be so selfish? So manipulative? Liar? Straight up delusional and re-writing history to make themselves look good? Entitled? After years of looking for answers, I finally understand. He was a jerk to me and our kids...but sooo generous to outsiders. He was quick to help our neighbor with problems but when the kids and I asked him for help, he'd get annoyed and wouldn't help. Notice I said help. He didn't think it was his responsibility to be a father and husband because he was 'HELPING' us.
Covert narcissists are the hardest to expose. It's hard to prove that their passive aggression had malicious intent in the court system and within family dynamics. If you react outwardly to their passive aggression, then they smugly point a finger at you as if YOU are the problem. They "innocently" hold up their hands and say they don't know what's the matter with you because they didn't do anything to you. They're the kinds of people who said they don't lie...even if they lie via omission (withholding important information).
Many therapists and mental health counselors still don't understand narcissism. Some don't even believe that it exists (as was said by a counselor to me).
Thank you, Dr. C. and Debbie Mirza, for all of your work. It's definitely a lifeline.
I sooo understand this crazy plight. It's such a sickness. The deception gets sharper and "smarter" with what unformation from you they take away from, not giving a glance to the emotional crimes of abuse done to you that you think you're actually trying to work out together. All the while, they cipher what worked, what isn't and then stepping up "their" game. Feeling like they are the smartest in all the land. 🙄 it's a Lifetime movie. Healing, the rest of our own lives, trying to move forward in mental exhaustion. Trust is never the same.
Believe the behavior.✔️
Amen to that, Dr Carter.✅
You had me at “your body knows the truth”
My loving father died when I was thirteen. He had a passion for photography and around age 15 I told my mom that I wanted to be a photographer when I got older and use my dad’s equipment. A week later my malignant narc mother came home and proudly announced “I just took your dad’s photography equipment over to your uncles and gave it to your cousin, because we all know she was your dad’s favorite and he would want her to have it.” With him gone, there was no one to buffer her. I went no contact finally at age 37, when I discovered I was pregnant. I had to save my daughter at all costs and I have not looked back.
That's cruel. Glad you have a separate life.
Through your video's, I just discovered today my 50 year old dtr is a narcissist! Thank you! I can't tell you how much she has criticized and blamed me over the years. Constant! She would not just give me the silent treatment, she would deprive me of seeing my grandchildren for years! Which was heart breaking...all three have mental health issues! No wonder. So hard to watch!
I'm so tired of crying because of his lies and anger (no hugs or comfort), then turning around and comforting him because i made him feel bad for hurting me...
You’re feeding them by crying. It’s not love, it’s an addiction to the abuse… the hot/cold intermittent reinforcement. it’s an addiction… Just ask Las Vegas how well it works!! they give you a little bit and then you keep trying to get more more more more
At first, I just thought he was passive-aggressive. Fourteen years ago there wasn't all this information. Thank God it is so available now.❣️
Preach! Wish I would have known all of this 20 years ago.
That's right. Undermining. More like not what you should be but that YOU SHOULD NOT BE at all!!!
Debbie’s book was the one that finally convinced me of the truth in my three decade marriage. I will forever be grateful to her for writing this book. Everything I read was overt based and it made me disregard narcissism as the issue. Nothing else fit though. This was the first book that made me feel like she was in my house our entire marriage. I never knew that what I was experiencing there actually was a name for. I had to read parts over and over and finally I accepted my reality. I am now divorced and well on my healing journey. Thank you. ❤
She gets it!
Boundaries and indifference towards covert, aggressive and passive Narcissist is the best way to protect yourself. Intelligence is one of their strong strength indeed.
Head games. They are always thinking about their next move.
I once had an actual breakdown in front of family because a take out restaurant messed up my hisbands order and he was already upset with me about who knows what. I was shaking about to faint from sheer panic of him being upset with me over it. The tortilla soup story here was very eye opening.
Thank you so much! This makes such sense to me. I’m 71, just signed separation agreement and my therapist said he’s gaslighting me. Hearing this makes me realize exactly what’s been going on for years. Because it’s covert, it’s so difficult to realize what was going on. He’s even trying to tell me what to put in my will, when I re-write it. Gawd!
When I was first discovering what narcissism was and that explained several people in my life, I found a video with Meredith Miller and Debbie Mirza and it changed my life. 🩵
Whoever feeds our souls with truth will always hold a special place in our hearts. Debbie, Meredith, and Dr C are 3 of those people 🩵🌿
My husband is this covert type of narc and it’s so true that they are the worst.
The passive-aggressive narc in my life relied heavily on plausible deniability...since I couldn't PROVE his intentions, it became easy for him to paint me as paranoid, insecure, and suspicious when I questioned him. This gave him constant ammunition to belittle, shame, and criticize me. It's a cycle that kept me trapped in self-doubt and confusion, questioning my own perceptions until I couldn't even trust my own observations and experiences.
The more that occurred, and the lower I sank, and the more power he stripped from me, I was left feeling helpless, hopeless, and I was mentally meeting myself coming and going. I was exhausted beyond words, and it was so demoralizing that I developed a pervasive inertia that persisted for years.
Finally, puzzle pieces started clicking into place, and a picture of who he really was loomed out of the darkness. At that point, I became so repulsed, enraged, and accusatory that I'm sure he was shocked at my transformation. Once he realized that the old me was gone, a switch flipped, and his passive aggression became anything but. That's nothing but a technique, and it relied totally on my self-doubt and insecurities.
I got out two years ago, and never again will I question my ability to discern red flags, or my feelings. She's absolutely right that things begin to unravel as soon as you find your strength.
I blindly married into a family of Passive Aggressive Covert Narcissists! It is maddening. I know there will valuable information for me in this video. I need all the help and insight I can get as I move forward in my healing. Thank you in advance. ♥♥♥
Be your authentic self. Politely challenge their first premise... asking thoughtful questions exposes accusations that don't fit - at least to you they will. Also, watch a lot of these videos or pursue courses like Dr. Carter's. Exercise your mind and body - rejoice in yourself.
My covert narcissistic mother after I told her that I gor a job " you got a job?!! I hope they're not gonna shut down the business" .
When I was in high school and told her I want to be a doctor she said "why are so ambitious? Why do you wanna work so hard. Just do smth easy". When I told her that she doesn't love me, she said " I'm just helping" 😂😂😂
Just left a 43 year marriage with a covert narcissist man...always knew there was something not quite right but didn't know it was this terrible thing...thank you for the life saving knowledge
Best wishes to you.
I was going to add the intensity of abuse increasing so much more these last ten years...I Had to leave for my own sanity...now dealing with the continuing aftermath...thank you for your best wishes, means alot...I am a warrior
Her book was the first book I read on narcissism! It was the only thing that helped me understand the first man I dated after the end of my marriage. He fooled my therapist and me, OMG. When I read her book, I felt so validated, he was textbook.
53 years married and what I thought was just a little boy in the beginning and a little girl who didn't know how to communicate, as year went by, I began hearing, you need to submit, obey, etc. and you are not a Christian wife, as you fooled me. Then as time and years went on, I had no idea of gaslighting, shaming, blaming, and major withdrawals were his way to deal. I KNOW so much more in the last year, yet couldn't pinpoint until this wonderful, God-appointed video. No more can I remain sleepless with anxiety and crying. Last night he became angry and blamed me for him not keeping his emotions in check. He then came back and said, you won this round, but never again will you make me angry. You must have a demon. Yes, girls, I have heard so much more. This is such true insight. I hope/pray the rest of you don't make excuses. Be blessed.
I hope you realize how toxic that theological position is.
Honestly I think everyone has demons, but I can tell you that's certainly not the fruit of the spirit from him, which is love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, and self control. God doesn't want us to be doormats.
I was raised in high control religion run by narcissistic dogma - Jehovahs Witnesses. many of my cousins and myself ended up in narcissistic marriages. We were raised to serve and always feel not enough, and guilt guilt guilt. A perfect template for future relationships.
All of this sounds like a precise description of government!
I was a domestic violence worker. 18 years with a passive agressive narc...but also groomed by my grand aunt and some nuns in childhood. This man fed on the wounds of my childhood that hadnt fully healed. So long it took me to see it. To the point that i have parkinsons and still stuck...they certainly feel so high and mighty in a subtle way. Hurts...till you start seing with clarity...thank you and dr Carter for all the light you bring! Debbie, i just bought your book! 🙏🙏🙏
Covert narcs have learned that it's easier for them to get supply by being pitiful vs arrogant. So if they can't impress you, they will try to play the poor widdle victim.🥺
"Everyone picks on me"
"No one understands me".
"I'm always being judged for my mistakes".
My mother had all the traits, covert and overt, depending on the circumstances. Graduation was ruined. She made my wedding extra stressful and created more unnecessary anxiety.
Wow. This was my life. And now, into the next generation with my daughters. My daughters seem to have absorbed his covert blaming, attacking and rage. It was all so “ not obvious.” And yes, I was often ignored at my birthday and left feeling horrible. And still, now that I am released, I still have moments of wondering “ is it all me?”😢😢
What about when the narc buys themselves the presents for YOUR birthday!!!? So many ugly memories.
@@AnnePerkins-po5jo ongoing heartbreak. The abuse happened “ in plain sight” but so covertly that my kids absorbed it and now have
assumed some of the behaviors. I’m a “ scapegoat.” Ugh
Seriously?
msmacmac1, I understandably, but unfortunately, share your pain, grief, and sorrow with all 3 of my adult daughters taking on my “husband’s” passive aggressive behaviors towards me-to the point they’ve excluded me from their lives.
🙏😭💔🙏😭💔
@@denicehaley9902 I feel you. I am at this moment wondering who my daughters really are? Did they inherit anything of me? I’m having a moment and your response touches me. Peace to you.❤️
Can recognise such a lot of this, my ex could suck the joy out of every single occasion and twist everything to be about him.
I suddenly found myself feeling like I was a means for the person to look good
Yes!!! My experience 100%. And this discussion is so reaffirming to a victim of NPD. Thank you! ❤
The Worthy Of Love" - what a wonderful title for a book 🥰 and surely a salvation for everyone of us, who were groomed and trained into conditional love, where we were not allowed to be ourselves from the heart.
🎯❣
My father grew up in a very affluent family in the Bay Area. My mom did not. And my dad made sure she remembered his affluence. She tried, although she and my father were vying constantly for attention from others. Both were Stanford grads, as were their parents. But no matter, it was my father’s show. When he left my mom, one month after they celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary, it ruined her. Her life had revolved around pleasing him. And although she graduated with multiple degrees, and continued taking courses, was president of the garden club, spca, docent of Oakland museum, etc., it was never enough in my fathers eyes.
He left her
She remarried…another narcissist …and yet, she held that pain and anger inside until a month after she turned 70.
Since her life once again revolved around taking care of a narcissist, she missed the signs of cancer.
18 days after being diagnosed with cancer, she died.
Her life was consumed with meeting the needs and living up to the expectations to please my father and her second husband.
She died one month after turned 70.
On her deathbed, she was at her home with a hospice nurse, she whispered to me that she “internalized pain and heartache for 21 years. Don’t do the same”
God bless you and bring you comfort.
After the divorce he continued his abuse by sabatashing the precious limited times I had with my children. This happened over and over again. Was so difficult. Can totally relate.
❤
They mirror you, thinking they're fooling you into believing they are like you. So obvious.
When I first came across this book, I was just starting the divorce process after 45 years being in a relationship with a covert passive aggressive narcissist. With each page I read, it was such an awakening. I saw myself and him on each page after page. I will always be so grateful for this book.
Thanks so much for covering this topic!
(Edit: I was the one that requested it recently, and your response was so much appreciated.) ❤️
You are so welcome!
And thank you so much for asking, Jane!! Living with the covert narcissist has been frustrating, stressful, and destructive for me. I need all the help and insight I can get.
@surlif Oh, yes, there's so much less information on this breed! It's exhausting, isn't it - and sometimes it seems there's something particularly malicious about that hidden malignant behaviour compared with the public face of perfect partner.
I'm still stuck with coping with it. I don't know what I did in a previous life to deserve this! :D
Many thanks for your comment, and I wish you all the best with your own situation.