Dungeons of Draggmar - Amazing Art, and Initial Frustrations
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
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"I did not know that humanity had developed the technology to print text this tiny" Love it.
I wish I wasn't drinking my cup of tea when he said that; the results were... messy!
LOL! Clean up on isle 5!
06:50. Thanks.
I agree with all your points. Very frustrating to try and learn. Haven't even gotten through a whole game yet out of frustration. Totally agree about the mats too. I put plexi glass over it when I tried it.
I hope they learned for their heart of darkness project that I backed.
That rulebook looks like the designer thought they were working inches but it was actually millimeters.
Spinal Tap’s Stonehenge. Lol.
For the attack and defense numbers, I'm thinking you could use that number of dice. 2 attack power gives you 2 dice or just rolling 1 die twice, and doing the same for the defense values = number of dice you and the dungeon monsters roll. If the monster rolls higher, then you discard the shield and keep rolling with whatever attack/defense dice you have left, or just exit the dungeon and try again next turn with a reequipped hero. I'm tempted to buy the game while it's still available. The art is nice and I imagine the game has a lot of potential. Also those cards could be used in another game.
This is one of the KS I canceled. I am not upset about the decision. Given how tiny that text is and given I have vision issues, this would not at all be enjoyable for me to learn and play. I hope they make changes for the people who backed it to make it a better game, but, otherwise I am happy I passed on this one.
I remember watching the Kickstarter gameplay trailer and getting exactly the same feeling.
I think it is trying to capture aspects of the video game (roguelite / art style) too much without putting enough consideration on the board game design apartment.
The rulebook reminds me of PC games from the late 90s/early 2000s when they'd be on CD and you'd get the flimsy little user manual in the CD jewel case. At least with those, you generally only needed a layout of keybindings.
I backed it purely on the strength of the art too. I haven't played it yet (waiting for the 2.0 rulebook first), but thought that you were supposed to start Level 1 Heroes in a Level 1 dungeon.
Was a shame about the mats. I soaked mine in boiling water then fully ran them through the dryer 3 times. Flattened them right out.
Yeah. I don’t want to have to wash my game components before I use them.
It's tough when this happens. Sometimes I'll mod the rules to get it to play the way I think it should especially if I think there's potential in the components and general mechanics. Most times I sell it off at swap meet or gift it to someone I think might enjoy it.
I feel the same way about pledge managers.
Well, you are so right, I also would have bought it just for the art, but that is just not enough... It is the same with games, which have great game mechanics, but there is hardly no art or simple art. The art draws us into the game brings it alive, but there must still be a good adventure or the art is vasted. There is no need for a perfect game, but always for a good adventure, which needs a working mechanic, story and good art.
"it was 0 fun" is exactly how I felt playing. The rulebook is terrible as you stated and after playing for about an hour I did kill 2 level 2 bosses and 2 lvl 2 bosses but at that point I wrapped it up because it seemed like there was really no choices being made. Most enemies will one shot you unless you get lucky with item cards. I don't think a better rule book will save this one.
My plan next time I give it a try is to actually make it more like Darkest Dungeon with some house rules and treat my party like an actual party where either the person in the lead just always take the damage but the ones in the back can help out or roll a die for random targets or something. I think its salvageable maybe with house rules but currently its just not fun.
I felt like I was playing wrong the entire time because I was never really doing anything.
Great ideas. Maybe something more in line with Marching Order would do it.
The game is fun, but it REALLY needs better rulebook (which they are working on and hopefully will be available Q1 23 + designer gameplay videos).
Me and my friend are seassoned gamers and still we were putting rules together for several hours and are still not sure, if we are playing this right :D
(playmats are really awful fail :/ )
And as a houserule - we choose lv of dungeon we are going in (1, 2 or 3) ..so all dungeon levels are visible from start - this medigates restarting game due to getting lv 2 & 3 dungeons on first turn.
Note that when you mentioned the artists you forgot to mention the cover artist Joanna Materek whose name is at the bottom of the credits page
Thank you!
There must be a story behind the size of the manual. Maybe it was a mistake and they rushed the release to meet a deadline? Regardless, that manual is like a bad prank.
Not much to say except "Bummer." I've gone back and forth with the designer about the rulebook for their next game, and have tried multiple times to get them to provide answers about DoD now so people can _play,_ but they just keep saying a revised rulebook is coming later. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You start with 5 Fame; Step 5 on page 4 under setup in the Revised rulebook.
On page 7 of the Revised rulebook, under Phase 2: Hiring and Market Trading, it says "To buy a card a player first ensures they do not already own more than 7 cards, in which case they cannot buy any more cards."
In Solo play, you start with 10 cards in hand, not 7.
You have a market place to buy items, and exchange items. You kept what you drew.
Yes the game needs examples.
Never saw the revised rule book. Sold the game quickly after making this video.
I acquired this game two months ago and didn't have time to get into it but, after seeing your video I wish I had look deeper into it before buying.
Hoping the new version of the rulebook will be better. Thank you for the video !
Woooooo!!! I really want this one! It looks so great!
Beyond the art, what did I show you that looked great? Curious.
@@TheDungeonDive😂
I also have trouble backing games because of the bookkeeping. I never know what is finished and actually going to arrive.
I just want a big green button associated with games that I have backed that are all finished. Then have that button with emails, accounts and everything. Maybe someday, dreams will come true.
Keeping track of pledge managers and shipping is such a huge PITA that I back fewer projects because of it.
I think what frustrates me the most is the creator's lackadaisical response to the feedback. When the negative comments about the mats and the rulebook started rolling in, his response was very much "whoops! oh well, live and learn!" There didn't seem to be much accountability. He could at least have created an update answering some FAQs and posting a printable version of the game map at different sizes/color levels for folks who find the mats unusable. Instead he just said "eh dig up the print and play files if you want." His responses to clarifying questions on BGG have been inconsistent at best. He's very full steam ahead towards his next project, with anything Draggmar related pushed out to "some time next year, maybe." The whole thing just left a real bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah. That’s a bad way to treat your customers.
Yep agree here as well. I really didn’t care for people asking questions in the Facebook group and him just directing them to the BGG FAQ only for them to come back and go ok well my questions weren’t answered there
I bought the PnP of this for $1 during their In The Heart of Darkness PnP KS campaign a while back. I didn't build it because I'd read some stuff about the poor rulebook. Then I forgot about it until your video. I forgot how great the art is. If there's a new rulebook coming out I'll probably finally print it. Even if it's still unplayable with the new rulebook at least I'll have a nice game I can set up, look at and then put away unplayed. 😄
On an unrelated note, where did you get your Dungeon Dive sticker for your card holder? Do you sell them? I've got the same holder but I'd like to cover up the label.
I'd also like to know about the sticker. I'd purchase two for mine. I didn't even know the card holders existed till I saw one of your vids. Very helpful for table space.
I just printed the text on paper and stuck it on with spray glue. LOL.
That's a good idea. Any chance you could share the image file? Maybe with patreons, if you want to keep it exclusive.
You can salvage the cards and components to make your own game.
I literally just chose a font in Word. That's all I did. :) I just added cross-hatching with a sharpie. :)
My first thinking is just choose two Level 1 Dungeons for the starting areas and just to have the encounters that are more suitable to the level of your characters and help you with the learning process.
If it's not in the rules, house rules are there for you. 😉
I noticed the problem with the map at first glance of the video.
The art is great and would like to be more of a humorous game with it.
But in any case the game looks interesting. Could be a buy with the right price.
The thing is, the game just isn’t worth the effort. There are better games to spend your time with.
@@TheDungeonDive 👍
Sad, as the art does look great. Good video, thank you. I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong with neoprene play mats, but they need to be shipped correctly. Core Space has a mediocre quality neoprene mat and it’s ok out of the box, but I now keep it rolled up separately outside the box. burncycle ships with two high quality thick neoprene play mats that are rolled up in the box and work great. Depends on quality and proper storage. Wonder if the small rulebook and bad neoprene storage in this case was an attempt at a smaller box for shipping.
They do add to the terrible plastic pollution and don’t offer anything better than what cardboard can do.
@@TheDungeonDive Fair point.
Did you see the updated rules, you start with 5 fame. I think the dynamics are the same, you can on solo scout 3 areas and pick one, still challenging as you can not help trying to defeat higher foes, I had spent fame on the cloak of illusion, which helped be beat a level 2 boss by avoiding it and winning that round. Their Discord is not very populated and they have not done other videos, I to like you want to love this game but have had a couple rough attempts at playing it.
Thanks for the info. I did not. Already sold the game. :)
@@TheDungeonDive I do understand, I really wanted to love it lol
Such a shame! It looks beautiful
I see your mats are just as wrinkled as mine. To be fair to the backers, I don't remember seeing any particular drive to have neoprene mats rather than cardboard. I think the campaign started with them as neoprene (probably so the box could be smaller). What I do remember seeing is people telling The Moongrel over and over not to fold the neoprene mats up for shipping, and The Moongrel pushing back and saying it'll be fine.
And to be fair to neoprene, when it's handled properly it does allow for a very nice playing surface. And the mats in Dungeons of Draggmar are so thin that they're more like cloth mats than neoprene mats.
The main issue with neoprene is that it doesn’t offer any benefit over cardboard and it also causes more plastic pollution to enter the environment. Given the choice, I’ll always prefer cardboard.
Maybe it would work better playing cooperatively as two guild masters and choosing what level of dungeon you're going into?
The game isn’t worth the thought of house rules.
@@TheDungeonDive Sad
@@tas1624 Every game I can easily let go is a good thing. :)
Hi, if I understand correctly, now you failed the level2 dungeon, doom tracker goes down by 1 and you gained 2 fame. Now you can scout two new dungeons and then hire new heroes and get items. Lvl2 Heroes are 2 fame and Lvl2 items are 1 fame. Next maybe you will find a Lvl1 dungeon or not nut keep on going. In the long term, you will gain fame and hire stronger heroes with stronger items. You can also trade before entering the dungeon. Maybe give another try?
That would be ok if the game was fun at all.
You played well, but you are not dead. Now that your run ends, you collect the Glory of the 2 rooms that you managed to go through before the boss (4 glory tokens), then you can either buy lvl.2 cards or get new free lvl.1 cards.
The more you grind, the better you become and that will help you defeat the stronger dungeons.
My main issue is that I didn’t really play. The game played me. Grinding is fun when the game is fun, but I just never found the fun in this one.
I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve started playing this game today and after struggling during my first run, I do get a lot of fun with it.
I really hope you will give it another chance after understanding the rules better, it’s definitively worth it. 🙌
The art looks great. The game, mat and rule book though...what a mess.
Do not like that mat, it’s not even flat. Did they not send it to you rolled?
I was going to back this but decided in the end to pass. Might’ve dodged a bullet.
Its a shame that a lot of companies do this. The main game boxes are stuffed full and are not able to fit a rolled tube inside. Sending separate increases the costs. From the look of the box shown they could have done a 2 section mat and had it flat inside, but really if you are going that route you might as well just do a folded board. Neoprene mats should always be option unless it's something like Too Many Bones
The mats came folded up in a tight little wad the size of your fist.
A poorly play tested game with terrible rules and unnecessary 'upgrades' that is sold entirely on its looks on Kickstarter??!
Must be the first time that ever happened
I've backed KS three times. The first was Serpent's Tongue, a beautifully produced game without quality testing that was shipped very late. The creator, at great cost to himself, made a great effort to pack and ship it to preserve his honor. The 2nd was Dark Venture and the last was League of Dungeoneers. DV had no hitches, but it looks like LoD is going to be really expensive when it comes to shipping (even though we're being given the option to get a refund if it is). So, yes, KS is a significant risk, even if the sellers aren't malevolent.
What is this? An instruction manual for ants?!!
Truth.
They have a new KS game,for a game called In the Heart of Darkness,looks fun.
Based on my experiences with this, I will not be backing that.
Based on the marketing text you read out from the box, it sounds like you are expected to throw "heroes" at the dungeons like cannon fodder. Perhaps the first few rounds are expected to end in quick death for your fighters and gathering small amounts of fame, followed by a grind during which you eventually actually have guys that will survive for a while. That doesn't sound fun at all to me, but it looks like that might be the way it's supposed to work.
Try not thinking of your guys getting killed as "losing" (unless that's the way it's stated in the rules), so much as a resource to be spent to farm a bit of fame.
Wow! That sounds like a horrible game! But it might actually "work" that way at least.
I love games like that. Kingdom Death Monster is like that. But it’s fun! :)
Seems broken.
This is my second "mistake" from this creator. I should have realized after backing Sleep Tight that his games were not for me....risked it because the art looked great and it seamed like a fresh take on dungeon crawlers. Thought maybe it was just me but....going to probably house rule the crap out of it while keeping the core concept that your an horrible person sending heroes to their death just to gain fame. I think this game is suppose to make u lose in the dungeons over and over but at some point things have to change and the game has to become winable....dark souls comes to mind.
After i check the encounter i must sadly say that the design isnt good, this is too much rng and between encounters you do not have a chance to draw a card, seems like the game was not tested properly. The game need a skilled developer. Art is fantastic, the same goes to visual at all.
I was like "oooh" then I saw the gameplay and went "Oh"..... No thanks not for me. I love to get immersed in a dungeon crawler this game just doesn't do it for me lol. The game production looks poor I dread to think of the price of this game.i love rolling dice but many do not like dice as they are too "random" and prefer cards - this shows that cards are worse than rolling dice. I do like those type of mats you hate however, only in particular games a game like this would look nice on a traditional 2 fold board as that would make the art pop more. To me this looks like a cheap p&p game. Shame as the art looks good.
Man you should stay away from Chip theory game I guess!
Oh yeah. No interest what so ever. Huge waste of plastic.