Tdi vs Puma vs Td5 - What's your opinion?
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- asimplyfab.life/ Let us know your opinion on the best engine for a Defender. IS the Puma the way to go? Or does the old Tdi still appeal with its old school charm? Chris shares some of his ideas on the subject, owning three Defenders with three different engines. He has also travelled extensively intot he outback in Australia, the bushveld and deserts of Africa and now in Europe, giving him some unique experiences in these vehicles. Check out his blog (makes for interesting reading with great photography): chrishookeafric...
Thank you to Chris for the footage. Thanks for watching.
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Land Rover Defender as a Daily Driver? The Good, the Bad & the Ugly ua-cam.com/video/KM3wZiB1RxM/v-deo.html
I have a TDI300 and a Puma. Living in Namibia my Landies does a lot of off-road. For long distance and gravel road travel, the Puma wins hands down, but once you hit raw bundu bashing, nothing beats my old TDI300. I like my Puma, but I love my TDI300.
I think you summed it up right there
You don't need a computer to run a 300 TDI.
No not exactly, but the last of the 300 auto's were ecu controlled.
They’re all brilliant engines! The sound of the 300tdi is just so nostalgic it makes you smile every time you hear it, but the puma is just so much more refined, and I think with sensible exhaust upgrades you can get a bit more growl if you want it!
Spot on! Talking of grinning, the sound while working hard and digging deep on a steep, slippery slope is.... the reason we have another 200tdi ;-)
A chipped/remapped Puma engine (circa 175hp / 450Nm) renders crazy mods like Cummins 4BT swap looks really unnecessary
Tdi all the way bombproof. Reliable fix in the field. And most of all get you home.
Most offroad competitive Defenders are/were Tdi's in some fashion (and a couple of Td5s thrown in). Zero electronics and really simple to get back running with simple tools if you park it upsidedown in a river by mistake👍😅
A TDi is unbeatable and i have one, i v been a fun of land rover since childhood but everything about it is too expensive in my country Uganda. My landy is my best friend.
I don't find that the Td5 has a shortfall in torque, in any conditions. Also, it's first gear can just about crawl over anything in its way. Must agree with the sound part, Td5 with a straight pipe, best diesel sound on a car.
gues it depends on the tune it currently has, the factory tune or more
300 Tdi 111hp & 195 lbf
TD5. 122hp & 221 lbf
Puma 2.4 122hp & 265 lbf
These are the unmodified figures
👌 thanks!
200 Tdi - 107 hp
I have a 300Tdi and absolutely love it. The Td5's I have driven were very nice, but the more vintage sound of the Tdi is just awesome and it's so nice off road. Nice video!
Can't beat a Tdi - just suits the Def for its original intention (farming, military, overlanding) Thanks for watching.
Td5 all day long
TD5 5 alive map 200 bhp 300lb/ft it destroys tdi's and puma's on and off road and is bullet proof with oils every 3000 miles. I do have a soft spot for 200 tdi.
I have a 300Tdi. I love it. Will never sell it.
Just so good and so tough.
With a phone app decibel meter at 80kmh the general noise in the 300 Tdi was/is around 86 decibels.
I had the opportunity to drive a TD5 and ran the same test. It came in at around 76 decibels at the same speed.
My sound engineer guy friend reckons that a drop of ten decibels is equivalent to halving the noise.
Myriad changes between the TD5 and the 300 Tdi, the vehicles have got softer and softer.
You don't like a little noise, not comfortable enough like Goldilocks?
Diddums.
Take a teaspoon of cement and harden the fuck up!
300 Tdi seven days a week.
Hi everybody ! Here in Sudan -East Africa ,there are few Td5s engines but due to their complications they are not popular.Td4 engines broke down in their first 10,000 miles. The dusty tough weather is the reason. Tdi's 300 & 200 proved their durability and remains the popular ones.Ayman
Hi Ayman, sounds about right - for African conditions... It may not be a coincidence that the British army spent some amount of money re-furbing the Tithonius and even Wolf, with N/A and 300Tdi respectively - not so long ago?
Tdi all the way! The Td5 does sound good though
Can't beat powering past someone at full grunt in a 200tdi...even if they're not really trying
Having had a td5 110 for 3 years (which gave me every fueling problem imaginable and even had to get a new set of injectors!) I'm now on a 300tdi 110 and oh my god what an engine, I absolutely love it, really tough and runs great.. After 1 year ownership it's only ate up a serpentine belt but it was old anyways so I don't think it counts :)
i guess im randomly asking but does anybody know of a trick to log back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot my account password. I would love any tricks you can offer me.
@Cayden Decker Instablaster :)
@Bryan Davian thanks for your reply. I found the site on google and I'm trying it out atm.
Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Bryan Davian it worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thank you so much you really help me out !
@Cayden Decker no problem :)
sound -> TDi, Td5. Td4
Performance over all -> Td4, Td5, Tdi
one life to life, one death to die....I have a Puma....
I like my td5 I use it for all sorts from towing to crawling. The low range on it is plenty slow and it hauls fine. Fucking things done 140 thousand miles as well. Love it.
Couldn't agree more with what was said
TDCi or Td5 for me, loved the TDi's but these days their old school and Td5's/Transit's are the way forward - but that's imo and if you can use a 'computer' you can fix a TD5/TDCi? my last car and current one are run on an ECU, and I've not had any probs. whatsoever up to now.
200tdi is my favourite. such a simple engine
Not in the cambelt debt. it wern't. I think that's why the MOD never used it and waited until the 300 came out - no taking off the waterpump to get at the timing belt.
Puma 2.2 TDCi... Amazing torque! And chip it with BAS or Alive... And wow!
Love my 2001 TD5. Had it 8 years. I live in the mountains of Portugal. Never let me down once. Been overland from here to North UK 5 times there and back. Never a single issue. Service it annually and fix anytime a minor problem comes to light. No opinion on either the 200, 300 or Puma, because I've never owned or driven any. All I know is my TD5 hardtop is totally stock. It's motorway all the way from here to Manchester. Including the ferry from Santander, that's just over a 1000 miles. 700km in Spain is 75mph, pretty much none stop. I absolutely LOVE my old TD5.
Cheers for the comment great to hear! They ARE pretty reliable (IF you don't park it in a pond, of course). Here's a walkaround I did on a friend's tuned TD5 🤘ua-cam.com/video/v8-Ifdm64lU/v-deo.html
You have a '01 Td5, is it the 10 or uprated 15p engine ('51 reg onwards)?
Interesting video. We have all three and would pretty much agree with the verdict. I can tell my favourite though, as it's the vehicle I grab the keys for by choice and that's Td5's. We have two Td5's and would like to add that the lack of low down torque issue was to some extent helped by adding the anti-stall on later Td5's... noticeable, as I have an early Td5 too and miss the very helpful anti-stall. Yes, as said the Tdci Puma is Worlds ahead on motorways but is that the home of a Land Rover anyway. Thank you for the video. Cheers Wayne
I don't think you can beat a tdi , a Diesel engine as it should be with no stupid electrics.
Yes, fix it with a hammer, two tie wraps and a shifting spanner. Thanks for watching
haha fully agree the amount of times i have put a water pipe back on with elec tape and jubelee clip is amazing simple robust easy to fix engines but also last :) nothing like tape and a hammer trick
Not the later ones!
ua-cam.com/video/FQGRDZITDew/v-deo.html
I have currently have a Td5 work vehicle a TDCI and used to own a 300 TDI , the TDCI is a pile off crap it has no engine braking 1st gear is a towing gear and nothing else it constantly eats brakes and egr valves and the worst thing it just does not feel like a land rover , true they are better down the motorway but if thats what i wanted i would buy a disco , i have owned the 130 TD5 for 11 years and with a little regular maintenance it has been spot on even though the electricity board deemed it had done its time and then i put it to work in the tree surgery world which is a vehicle killer ,the 300 was a long time ago but i loved it .
Cheers for the comment. Really like the 130s and interesting to hear that it has held up well in hard conditions.
Agreed on the Puma - very dull and characterless for a Defender (and that rev-matching deal on the 2.2 is just ludicrous)
TD5 all the way... Pump-Injectors... No CommonRail failures... Torquewise: nothing a little camshaft adjustment can´t bring to the 1000-1500 rpms range... Chipped can get to 200hp and lots of torque in stock form... with a variable geometry turbo... close to 300 or even more if you want to kill it :D
I have a td5 and puma I prefer the puma for general driving but agree the sound of the engine is not great. for off road crawling I prefer the puma.
PUMA 2.2.....especially because of the gear ratios and anti stall...best way. Yes - a TD5 sounds nicer.....but they are typically behind me so I can't hear them LOL ;-))
woody. Come to my place and we’ll check that last thing, mate🤪🤪. Cheers
300 TDI best deisel ever made td5 bit of a racing car engine luvs rev sounds very pleasing at 2500 to 3500 accelerating but use to much fuel stupid fuel pressure reg valves fails regularly 300tdi with 300000 still uses no oil starts first
For me, I still prefer the 200Tdi purely for its character although I concede the 300 may be a better bet!
Sorry gents, the best engine ever fitted to a Landy is the Isuzu 4BD1T 3.9 litre. These were fitted to Australian civilian 110s and also to the Australian army 'Perenties' (4x4 and 6x6). Enormous torque and absolutely bullet proof.
The 2.5s are just not up to the task for a heavily ladened 110, especially compared with the 3.9.
Can't argue with that...
Although - purely out of nostalgia - I find myself wanting to 'defend' LR's choices...😉
I personally think that the best all rounder when considering servicing, repairs, drivability, and cost to buy is the TD5 with the 15P engine. Just my opinion based on previous ownership.
200tdi is the best strong, reliable and makes great sound
Just a shame they never saw military service. Having to take off the waterpump to get at the cambelt was a downside, I had a 200Tdi coverted into a old 90 a while back and had to do the above many a time.
200Tdi & 300Tdi By far.
I’ve td5 defender, had tdi300 discovery and have a transit with Tdci115 in it. I’d say for smoothness and low down power the tdci. But for reliability the other two all day. Ford engine will not cover the miles a td5 or tdi will. Td5 does sound the best. Shame it never got a 6 speed gearbox then there would be no contest
I have a 1997 TDi with over 350K Km and a 2012 2.2 Puma with over 100K Km. Off road and in the bush, TDi, on road Puma (by far)
Agree 110%.
Although - to be fair - I dig the sedate pace of our 200Tdi on the highway. Battling the trucks on the hills 😁... and cooling off on the descents...😅 The pace is quite relaxing 👍
I have a Defender 130 in Brazil and the sound of the 300 TDi is the best in my opinion
For me it's in this order!
200tdi
300tdi
Td5
2.2 puma
2.4 puma
2.5NA 12J
2.5TD. 19J
Tdi engine are the best for simplicity but I would say the 200 was better for off-road than 300 only because it's not got the serpentine belt and the noisy tensioner when it gets wet!
My own 200tdi defender has over 275K under its belt and apart from a head gasket it's never let me down.
Had a TD5 blow when oil pump bolt failed but that's Land Rovers fault for not applying lock-thread from new!
I would agree totally with the list (as a 200tdi, 310k owner - just a great piece of kit, and probably the best suited for the Def's intended purpose).
That said my 'company car' is one of the last off the line and I am (shock horror) pretty impressed with the 2.2 after 60k... Apart from the electronics having an annoying habit of holding the revs between shifts (to avoid the 'clunk') which is actually counter-productive coming off a wornout tdi where you do this instinctively! Makes for interesting progress ;-). But nothing has fallen off and I spend a lot of time on the highway where the Puma is unbeatable for munching miles, as much as a Defender was designed for this of course!
Td5 has an obvious charm - but once a Tdi you can never go back ;-)
When you consider in order of power refinement against complicated engine electronics the TD5 wins by a mile, it is a cam chain driven two stage engine oil filtered simple pump injector system with easy to diagnose and cheap to replace sensors with the smoothest running and most economical under towing load. If the 300TDI was cam chain driven it would be a very close call between these two engines. I tow a full height 2.5 ton 20 foot van at 14-15 lts per 100 kms at highway speeds without trouble up and down hills with my TD5 Defender, no DPF no Cat no EGR.
I would personally put the 12j above the td5 but that's just me.
Rob Thurlow you’ve obviously got all the time in the world!😂😂 great engine but Jesus it’s an old plodder!
TD5 sound is the best. Just about every time I think fucking land rover I'm getting rid...I just take it for a blast, problem solved! 300 definitely has more low down grunt, it will pull from nothing with no boost, its like a tractor lol. Puma is too modern for me...not a fan
would go for the puma
I had a free choice of which to buy but for me it was the 300tdi that stood out as the best for my needs. I do accept that on the highway the puma goes well. But I wanted a vehicle that I drove not one driven in part by a computer. The pleasure of tasking myself to drive a 300 tdi off road wins out against the rest.
Puma 👌
Love my Tdi's!.. '95 tanami Defender and '96 Disco. Love em :)
Having owned and daily driven defenders for the past 25 years the puma is by far the best td5 has the best sound but un chipped is a complete waste of time I do miss my old 300tdi with the fuel turned up but wouldn't trade my puma for any of them
Td4 was a BMW engine in the Freelander 1. LR also used the Td4 branding on the Freelander 2 with the Ford 2.0 litre diesel. But wasn't used on the Defender as far as I know.
Correct. We were referring to the Puma, naturally - too many TD...s😂. An inexcusable slip of the tongue - in the best Solihull tradition, of course. 😅
Was the TD4 also on the Evoque? Or SD4?
I've just swapped from a good 200tdi to Td5 and I agree 100% especially the offroading side, Td5 anti-stall is too narrow, you have all the torque in the world if you just bring the clutch up, the second you breath on the accelerator it all goes wrong. 200tdi is a joy offroad, very smooth in the lower end and far more forgiving and communicative before stall.
I hate the Pumas engine braking and the throttle response is very weird.
Yes, nothing beats a 200Tdi in the mud on a steep slope, growling away. Throttle response is like an on:off switch as well. Agree on the Puma, hangs onto its rev's (2.2) when changing gear is just weird and you never feel in control/ connected. Thanks for watching
the 2.2 hanging on to revs when changing gear is a fault... it's not meant to do it
@@daveenglish2031 This can be simply solved by cutting short the electric connection
behind the master brake cylinder after removong the wire put in a u turn wire
in the connector and problem solverd.
puma is not a TD4, it's TDCI.
TD4 is a 2.2PSA engine, which came on Freelander and Evoque
Yes, I misspoke meaning to differentiate between the 2.4 and 2.2 TDCi. Quite correct, thanks for your comment.
quite common mismatch. cheers
having owned every engine defender short of a v8 by far my favorite is the 2.4 puma bags of torque quiet on the road 6th gear is a must and great anti stall off road, my second pick would be my 300tdi followed by the td5 that engine apart from the sound is dreadful unless tuned its hopeless once reved very hard you get some action but you will soon be passed by a 300tdi
samti86 sounding like a bit of an idiot here I know, but which one is the ‘puma’? Land Rover Newbie here. 🤦♂️
@@jimhailwood2873 Puma is the 'TD4' thats referred to in the video but actually he meant TDCI 2.2. Its the most recent Defender with the hood bulge and improved interior dash layout
Nick C thank you very much, I’m slowly learning, planning to buy one soon and not sure which is the best.
@@jimhailwood2873 I got a 1990 200tdi last year with no mechanical/Engineering training but im interested in it so forums and youtube have helped me plus i'm pretty good with researching and diagnosing issues which is more than half the battle.
Another time, i would have recommended you go for something from year 2000 onwards and £8000+ as youll have to put that in anyway even if you go older like me but now im glad i started off with something basic and rough as ive learnt a lot and im not afraid about messing something up because its pretty hard to 'mess' up a 200tdi.
Mine was £4500 with 123000 miles and probably spent a lot of time indoors so somehow the chassis is amazing, no corrosion and engine with that low mileage is nothing. Whatever you get, doesnt matter too much but take someone who knows so they can spot if the chassis and bulkhead show any signs of rotting because if you buy something that looks decent but is falling apart, youll wish you never bothered.
Really? Every Defender engine? Even BMW M52 (SA), Rover T16 (Italy), and Isuzu 4BD1 (Australia)?
200-300TDI forever!!!
200Tdi ftw
No electric crap needed, 300tdi for me, my 110 is great
Love my TD5, love the sound, love playing with it and love generally everything about it... I have just clocked 450,000 km on it and have had the gearbox out twice on my own, once to replace the clutch and once when the main shaft decided to alleviate itself of all responsibility!! I don't think I will ever sell her, I love towing with her and I love taking her offroad, there are fewer more fun things to do than go on a nice long drive :)
A long drive - you mean those holidays with 10 hours a day behind the wheel, covering only 500-600 km max as you circumnavigate Spain or Corsica for two weeks. Arriving at each campsite absolutely shattered, broken, dehydrated and deaf as you unfold from the seat... With the widest grin on your face as you crack open that first cold one! 😉😎👌
@@ASimplyFabLife mate I live in Australia, and yep you nailed everything, 10 - 16 hour drives, as we circumnavigate Uluru via Port Augusta in South Australia, clock up 11,000 kms in 3 weeks, drive the red centre highway and take out 4 kangaroos in the trip 🤭. Wake up deaf, stretch out and crack that cold one with the biggeat grin ever 🥰😌😆. Wouldn't have it any other way... short of taking her around Europe as well!! 😎, cheers my friend, glad to know it feels the same on the other side of the world!!
@@dscott2542 Cheers mate (sorry for the cliché😂)! Just a quick shout out man - kudos to you sir!🤘😎
(have followed Ronny Dahl and ASPW with their complete lack of confidence in the JLR products - Toyota IS the way! 🤣🤣🤣)
What about the gearbox R380 vs MT82 6 speed???
Ascroft kit.(400£) And about puma pistons? 🙄
I've had series 2a 2.25 diesel for 12 years, and a TDi sound very familiar, especially when going through rough terrain and pulling heavy loads, and from even listening to one of my Dad's mates who bought a defender a few years ago, the sound is like a truck.
But with the TD5, of which I have had for 9 years now, to me it has had a very soothing affect upon me, as I like the sound of the turbo whistling along on the road, and yes there is plenty of power, but not so much as on take off in high range.
In low range, The TD5 does have plenty of power yet again, and is very capable of pulling heavy loads or towing others out of a bog, but still it can be still stalled in sudden extreme conditions.
It depends on the running of the engine, and if it has been warmed up enough after a cold start.
The Td5 engine definitely works very well in humid conditions with all that extra moisture in the air going into the intake manifold, especially when you are moving off in first gear, and listening to it roar.
But when coasting along the highway, it still has a pleasant sound, even with the noise dampener covers on top surrounding the engine.
The worst part when it comes to TD5's is getting access to some components when fixing and repairing them.
The Fuel pressure regulator fittings, especially the front one can take a while to get at.
The alternator usually takes about 3 hours to access, remove and replace.
The exhaust recirculator unit can be fiddly enough to test your patience, even when such simple devices should be easily accessed to for repairs, but are not.
Other than that, TD5's are good when they are running, and kept in good condition.
I agree that the fuel pressure regulator is a bitch on the D2 to replace. so so fiddly. Elastic/rubber bands saved me on the day by holding things in place. Nightmare to get past all the bits in the way. Love the td5 though.. The sound of the engine is like no other diesel engine. Awesome
Got a Series 2a 88" with a 200tdi in. Can't comment on the other engines as it's my first car, however compared to the 2.25d and 2.5NA it had in before, it seems to have similar handling characteristics at low speed with a much better top end thanks to the turbo. That's for on road use at least. I've not had her off road much other than the odd greenlane now and then.
As for noise levels in it... WHAT? SPEAK UP!
Did you put in the proper range rover diffs though?
Td5 is the best alrounder as they tow well the go well and are good off road
and they sound well!
200 Tdi set up right is as quiet as a 300 & more economical.. I had to set the pump pulley one tooth out to get mine right as she was too advanced retarded as far as possible.. Since then it has been brilliant.. When set up right stick with the same fuel..
Means your injector pump worn it will fail soon and take injectors with it fuel tank be full of bits of front rotor and rollers
my tdi was great on fuel and reliable .my td5 has alot more power but stalls under load easy .once i fit my 5:1 transfer case i will have the best of both
There may be a case made for delivering to expectations? The TD5 sounds like it should pull down a house, but in really it doesn't have all that much torque (in factory spec). The Tdi makes you smile just by cresting a hill... and gets around at a decent clip as well....
Doesn't matter what engine the have as long as they land rover
A good while ago I drove a mates Td5 offroad where he asked me to take my foot off the pedals completely. I did. It didn't stall despite crawling up and over some pretty hilly terrain. He reckoned it had an anti-stall capability and it seemed to me that it did. On that basis I'd rate the Td5 the best all-rounder.
I once drove a Puma (on road), and it felt like a travesty - all the usual Defender discomfort but no decent engine noise/feel.
I have a 200tdi as my DD, no sound proofing and all carpets removed. Bose NC headphones for any road trips over 40 miles!
Agreed on all points. The Puma has the torque but zero character. Our 200Tdi has all the character but no torque 😅 We have a Bose Revolve for some music amongst the noise of travel - I guess you kind of get used to shouting at each other 😊😆
The Puma 130 doesn't have traction aids other than stall prevention. Thus, it is the best in my book, because you still need to know how to drive, wheel placement, etc, but it is modern enough that you can hear the radio while driving. 😃 But yeah, the engine sound isn't confidence building when doing really steep high country tracts.
Nothing beats a 200Tdi on steep country tracks (sound-wise 😉😄 - although we always get there in the end...)
Didn't know the 130 Puma doesn't have traction control 🧐
Cheers
I passed my driving test in Land Rover series 2a nearly 40 years ago. I fell in love with Land Rovers and have always owned one since. I have owned and maintained many different models over the years. In my own opinion the 200tdi was the best mechanical diesel with the 300tdi a very very very close second. The best sounding in my opinion? is the td5 by far. This really is the best Land Rover production engine they made....... and the last. The td5 engine is very "bomb proof". The td5 is an evolutionary development from earlier Land Rover engines with the added ability to have them tuned electronically to get the best out of the engine [e.g td5 alive etc ]. The tdv6 was not really a Land Rover engine and I found it very problematic. I found many of the tdv6 engine routine maintenance problems were very simple to fix but the engine was not designed for field/adventure access and will cost ££££ to fix. The puma? is not a land rover engine either, and just sucked the soul out of me!!!!!! as it it did not handle, sound , feel and drive like a Land Rover tbh. I decided to bite the bullet and totally rebuild a Land Rover discovery 2 from the wheels up with a new chassis . I have had her for a few years now and just replaced one wheel bearing, a fuel pressure regulator and a headlight bulb. I have had it tuned by td5 alive and has better fuel economy and awesome torque. I must though truly admit!!!!!!!!! the best ever ........old school Land Rover is the series 2a as it was so simple and easy to fix, very robust, reliable, and a vehicle that can still be found driving anywhere around the world. Not like most of our modern Land Rovers.
Awesome to hear👍😎👊. Am I correct in saying that the Td5 is (kind of) 'detuned' when leaving Solihull? For reliability, but also the ethos of Defender is that you don't really need so much power to do what Defender was built for in the first place. Gearing does most of the work - like a tractor. Alongside those thoughts was the fuel economy consideration - the reason Td5 came about to replace the Tdi...?
Nice vehicle - the D2 (I miss our old D1 300Tdi😊). We are enjoying our 110 200Tdi enormously atmo although an old Series is on the wishlist (don' tell management) - it doesn't really get more pure in LR land!
I think the reason the td5 was developed (Storm Project) was in response to the modernisation of the electronic diesel engine by other manufacturers. The only negative aspect of this ? was the military dropped/phased out the td5 engine as it did not have the KISS principle (keep. It. Simple. Stupid) required for military expedition/field vehicles. On the upside the td5 engine could be tuned electronically and adapted to get even better performance out of the engine. I have driven the original factory spec td5 engine for few years and also a remapped version. It truly is like night and day with fuel economy and power. I still miss my 200tdi defender too.....awesome vehicle. She never broke down or had any issues in 10 years. She was one of the vehicles I still very much regret selling to this day 😪. I think the key secret to any old school Land Rover is regular maintenance and preventative maintenance. And if a bit falls off !!!!!! just bolt another bit on.
@@bordercanoe Yes, as far as I understand it LR was really feeling the pressure from the Japanese (and the emissions needs of course). Fantastic engine for what you could make it do (have some friends who run them in various guises and will need to own one sometime). But for now our old 200tdi soldiers on!😎😀
Still deciding if I should upgrade my disco 300tdi to a td5. Because I wanted abit more power for t a touring vehicle . Now watching this video I’m even more undecided . How’s the td5 in terms of reliability?
Like any Land Rover product - if you treat them well, they'll go on far longer than you expect. Here's a beat-up old Defender TD5 that has over 400 000km's on a tuned TD5 ua-cam.com/users/edit?o=U&video_id=v8-Ifdm64lU But... if something goes wrong a TD5 can be very expensive - electronics and injectors and of course don't bend the block by overheating. I miss our old Disco Tdi, always performed above expectations - until the turbo blew ;-) which cost more to replace than the car was worth and cash was tight at the time... As most things in life it is luck of the draw if you get a good TD5 - especially with Land Rover
220000kms rally rithm in dayly use(yeah. not built for that but life rules my rithm). Just changed the clutch at 200000.
Let it warm up, use good oils and do a good maintainance.
It can last forever.
Take care of the 5 issues known in td5’s and you’ll be ok.
Remap it for torque and its only negative point is that the newer pumas have a 6th gear you will miss in the td5(put bigger tyres and it’ll be a bit better unless you need a really short 1st low gear). Cheers.
Go for it
Fix you 300tdi these when right have more than enough power td5 is a racing car engine with several floors
If you do buy a 5 cylinder, get the 15p unit there more reliable and better designed than the earlier 10p engines.
Td5 for me ❤
Totally agree and a td5 if u want a very tuneable engine.
Tom, have you a tuned TD5? I've just watched a UA-cam video on the same and it seemed awesome. Bit steep at £800ish. Is it worth going for on my 2001 TD5 with 90k on the clock?
@@ianworley8169 I have worked on tuned tdis and td5s and currently have a remapped td5 by twisted which cost about £400. I would say go for a stage 1 or 2 remap by storm tuning and it makes a massive difference. Alot more low down torque, great for drivabilty and towing. If you want more power you could go with a hybrid turbo. At 90k it would be totally fine. Mine has 107k on the clock and is due for a new clutch.
300tdi every time love mine love the sound love the drive
Fair assessment. Although my decatted straight through Puma does sound pretty good.
They DO drive in a (comparatively😅) more civilised manner to be fair...👍
td5 all the way!
I believe the puma engine is a Ford transit engine?
yes
Can one use the 300 tdi engine on the puma without changing the gearbox?
I don't think that will work. As an example - since they took the engine and gearbox combo striaght out of the Transit there is already an adapter plate on the Puma gearbox to connect it to the transfer case - which means the dimensions of engine and gearbox length (and bellhousing) are different for Tdi and the Puma.
Just my observation - I stand to be corrected...
I have a 300tdi for off road and looking for either a td5 or tdci for work
TDCI
Puma all the way Id know about td5? The td5 is a taxi the puma is the best sound by far Asf! The puma has the best ignition sound and growl revving sound Asf!😎🔥❤️
I've heard on the Land Rover Discovery 2 the TD5s were a bit unreliable but I've heard in the Defenders they are better.
Not sure on that point. Obviously we have the different turbo placement on the Tdi's (and a higher Disco tune) but are there differences on the Td5 🧐? I am going to have go into that rabbit hole!
Maybe the tune is a little higher on the Disco as well...
The early (10p) one's were (1998-early 2001), plastic dowels were used in the cylinder head to hold the gasket in place and would expand and break over time blowing the whole works, they were upgraded from September 2001 when the '15p' engines were launched. Oil pumps were apparently weak on earlier 5 pots too.
I have a late 1997 300tdi and I love it. I can't compare 'cause I just don't care!! Should've been a poet.
😅nice one, mr. poet!
Also, as explained in my other videos, one of which is the 'Survival Guide': ua-cam.com/video/V1YmigSfyws/v-deo.html - the best Defender is................... your own!
Cheers for the comment👍
Traction control etc. are not standard in the puma, mine has none of that shit that Chris is referring to.
Saying the puma does it all for you is a big mistake.
Opinions (like in the title) aren't bullshit in my book, sir. Merely trying to share experience and point of view.
Tdi + sound proofing add over drive for road work no computers winner.
Just got my first, a 300tdi. Any resources with where and what to sound proof? And what do you mean by adding overdrive? Thanks in advance 😊
Great video! My 200tdi 110 CSW was stolen off the drive a week ago and I'm beginning to lose hope on getting her back. therefore have been looking at trucks before my landy days evaporate into household bills etc. This video was a great indicator on the engines, as I have been tempted to look at newer td5's. I think I'll stick with the 200tdi though even though plugging holes to keep out the rain and cold is gonna take time from scratch again.
Cheers again for the video, I've wached most of your landy repair videos a few times!
Ewan Adair So sorry to hear about your landy, that's awful. Hope you find a fab replacement. Thanks a mil for your kind words, glad you enjoy the vids. Makes making them worth it 😀
Sorry to hear about your truck, I can't believe how many are getting stolen these days... Thanks for your comment and good luck on the 'new' 110 (I prefer the Tdi - suits the van better, slowly but surely...)
I love the sound of a 300TDI… am on my third Puma and I totally agree that they are the superior vehicle on road… my only TD5 was a Discovery… must be honest wasnt over impressed.
From a maintenance point of view and in the engine area, the Puma is really the utmost worst..
Agreed.
And arugably the Tdi's strong point🤔
Dude your steering wheel is fucked its somehow fallen onto the complete wrong side of the vehicle
LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 1 WITH 300DTI AUTO
YES SLOW ON HIGHWAY SHOW LOW DOWN PULL POWER WHEN ARE TOW HEAVY TRAILER BEHIND 300DTI AUTO AS MAKE UP WITH OFF ROAD
I hope the video you showed is not the Tdi you are referring to as 300Tdi, thats a 200Tdi.
Noise is Td5 on top.
My Td5 has no torque concerns.
My Perentie is second, that 3.9 Isuzu is pure old school.
My 300Tdi sounds amazing too, does not have the crackle of the Td5 but the diesel knock is awesome.
My Puma is just quiet but still amazing
Nice carpool!👌 Good spread of all LR has (had) to offer.
Would love to have a go in a Perentie one day!
As far as I am aware the 200Tdi has the snorkel on the left and all others on the right-hand side of the vehicle 🤔
4 years on and how many Tdi worshippers and those that moaned about Td5/TDCi 'complicated' electronics are 'thinking' of buying the new smartphone on wheels........err sorry 'Defender' that you can 'fix' with simple mechanical knowledge?
🤔😅 enjoy the moment while you can still engage low range by a lever...
My only issue with the traction control on the late defender is when you disengage traction control it doesn’t really disengage if the wheel spins when you’re driving in sand which u need momentum during the momentum the my traction is off and it kicks back in when I don’t want it
help me please 2.2tdi engine when I start engine smooth but first-time push accelerator take correct full RPM 500 but push second time take not full accelerator RPM only 300 after this push any time RPM 300 but switch off and on push accelerator first time RPM 500 after RPM 300 any push Accelerator please help me.
Your problem in engine td5 do cheek power pompe diesel and injector diesele ..
After das chek computer and sansar ousigen....
And good luck to your problem. ..?
I’ve driven all three, but only td5 off road. Definitely agree TD5 makes the best sound and puma is the most refined on the road and makes the worst sound. Surprised td5 is worst off road though, but like a said above I’ve not driven the others off road.
I'm certainly no expert, but in my limited offroading experience I would go with the Tdi.
The Puma has bags of torque and anti-stall, so you hardly even need low range, but it is not an intimate experience. The electronics take away your own throttle and clutch control (in some sense) so to meter the power is awkward in some conditions.
The Tdi actually benefits from its lack of power and torque (if that makes sense?). You need to be accurate on the clutch and throttle and 'more aware' of your route through obstacles. More fun in the end, I would say (if you're old school like me).
The TD5 falls in between the two. The balance between torque (or lack of) versus power is noticeable, and if you chip it for more power you start flooring it in conditions you would be crawling up, in the Tdi.
Reminded me of an offroad challenge with two Tdi's versus a dozen Patrols somewhere in rural Poland a decade ago. The Patrols would floor it everywhere while we would be idling up a rocky section. Not throwing shade on the Patrol drivers (I actually had a pair of GR axles under the 90 during Orawa and Croatia Trophy - they make the Landy axles look like matchsticks), but at the start of day two there were two landys ready to go (even though I'd parked mine on its side in a meter of water and flooded the engine the day before) and only five Patrols (busted axles, UJs etc)... Good fun at the time and a top bunch of blokes (Patrol owners) but it might help to explain a Land Rover drivers approach - a slow as possible, as fast as necessary.
Not sure my rambling helps at all, but that's just my experience with these vehicles. At the end of the day (as mentioned in another video) the best Land Rover is..... yours😉
land rover discovery with 300 tdi with auto with no electrics on engine as ok little slow highway as make up with off road side .
We expect puma engine has more power.the present hp is only 122hp.how do we expect it to be better than the toyota.knowing very landrover is an offroad vehicle.should perform much better than the Japanese cars.
The approx. 122HP is all you need IMHO - and the Puma's torque is ample as well. Landys are also limited by the amount of torque that the Transfer Case can take...
More power is not necessarily better versus knowing how to use it (from experience in the Croatia Trophy: ua-cam.com/video/1jpPJ2pHWKA/v-deo.html)
Good Explain. Thanks
The TD5 sounds great because it's a 5 cylinder. 5 cylinders in my opinion sound better than 4 cylinders or 6 cylinders. 5 cylinders have that menacing growl.
Straight pipe😎🤘
300tdi is the best, uncomplicated and simple to work on.
What about a 200 then, do you need a degree in rocket science to work on one?
@@pistonhedd 200 is also a fantastic motor
Je suis vraiment content de mon 200 tdi (110 HCPU) coupleux a bas regime boite bien étagé , un peux bruillant😆 mais rassurant par sa simplicité. dans un monde ideal je lui mettrai un turbo a géométrie variable mecanique , un ventilateur electrique, une boite r380 avec une 5eme plus longue (ashcroft) meme boite de transfert et juste un blocage arriere
Plutôt d'accord avec toi :p en ce moment je prends l autoroute tous les jours avec mon 200 tdi, je conduis avec un casque anti bruit xD
Et comme j aime bien j'ai mis 4 pneus cloutées. .. ce soir on descend a nice partant de megeve 7h30 de route .le def est le roi des départemental😉
Absolument - la configuration parfait
J'adore le son - max 95 et lentement mais surement
C'est le 200 tdi style :p
Td5 is a much better workhorse than the tdi
td5 is a bunch of crap ,,, simple ,,,
You must be very lucky most I know suffer reoffending faults
As much as TDIs were great. The Puma 2.4 wins.
It's best for on road cruising. And best for off road crawling and torque. Therefor it's the best all rounder
I would agree except for character and I found it a bit 'rattly' sounding - the 2.2 is far smoother - but then you don't have to worry about the particle filter 💰
@@ASimplyFabLife I'll agree with character. My dad had a MK1 discovery TDI. Had tonnes of character. Especially when it broke and even a Land Rover expert didn't know what was wrong with it 😂
Still miss it to this day though as had loads of fun off road with it.
My Puma lacks in character but makes up for it with great on and off road performance and mated to it's great 6 speed box
Tdi, simple, robust, reliayable...noisy but...I completly agree with you
I enjoy the lack of electronics on a Tdi 👍
Greetings from South Africa. For me, as a blind person, the 300tdi and 2.4 Puma all the way. The 2.4 Puma does have a clattery diesel type of sound to me but maybe not as distinct as the 300tdi.
Thanks for the comment. I am biased to 200tdi, but I know what you mean. Lekker bly!
Well, I must admit though if I had to choose between the 2.4l Puma and 2.2l Puma the 2.4l Puma sounds the best in most cases. The 2.2l Puma doesn't really have a distinct diesel sound compared to the 2.4l Puma but the Puma engines in general sound almost the same as any other common Rail turbo diesel engine from other brands so the 300tdi takes my top ranking and the 2.4l Puma comes in second.
Greetings from South Africa. For me in general the 300tdi and the 2.4 TDCI are my favourite engines. What's your opinion on the Defender 110 double cab? My 19-year-old brother and I love the Defender. My brother likes the station wagon while I'm deeply interested in the double cab.
Goeie more ;-) How's things in S.A.? I think if you really want some mileage out of a double-cab in terms of usability you need to look at a 130. There's no denying the DC has more cool-factor, and obviously gives you legroom in front, but the bin gets pretty small out back.... For me, I prefer the Utility -five-door and solid rear panel.
Thanks for the reply. I suppose you could adjust the seating position in the front to make it more comfortable in the back of the double cab but it will most probably depend on how tall a person is so you can adjust the position of the front seats accordingly. I also like the double cab for it's truck set-up, people in the cab and luggage in the back behind the cab and the nice thing about that is that it's separate as I feel that with the station wagon (my brother likes the station wagon) I think the passengers and luggage are all bunched up together like in an SUV and I'm not really an SUV person. If I had to choose and SUV I would go for the Discovery with the 300tdi/td5 engine.
Here in Australia we got the updated Lion 2.7L V6, that came in our Ford Territory. Sounds very rumbly. Lots of low torque. We dont have all the bearing issues.
Australia got pretty creative! Perenties... Isuzu... 👍😀
That engine was never fitted to Australian Defenders only Discovery and RR Sport.
Australian Defenders only had 200/300tdi, TD5, Puma2.4/2.2 Diesel engines. Perentie had Isuzu engines. Early Counties had V8 petrol.
td5 the best!
👍hard to argue with that😀
TLC the best (as with anything mechanical) :)
Tdi 300 by a mile
the best landy is YOUR landy...
👆👌