This Is NOT Good...$800 Polaris Predator 500cc Quad. Will It Run? (Part 3)
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- I diagnose the problem of no compression on the $800 Polaris Predator 500cc quad and attempt the first start on it again. Will it run this time? #Polaris, #Quad, #500cc,
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This Polaris Predator is testing my patience big time! Who else has had problems with these quads?
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Thank you for all the support!
Give more gas
Hey should've bought a KFX450R there pretty cool quads
@2vintage The only thing the key does is line up the flywheel to the crank. It does not and is not supposed to hold the flywheel on the crank, let me emphasize, the key is only for alignment the spec says 110ft for the flywheeel this is very common problem great vid
They have a kit where you can drill a hole and put a pin in it. I would do this and yes the key way is to hold the flywheel from spinning..
Hey man I always lap those flywheel to the crank like you did the valve the surface of crank and flywheel is not smooth from the first time it broke lap it in
The reason the key broke is because the flywheel wasn’t fully tightened down onto the crank shaft taper. The purpose of the key is just an alignment aid, not to hold it. The taper of the crankshaft and tightening the flywheel down is what holds the two together.
I think you're right flywheel came out to easy
@@joaoxufre9296 in all reality you should be able to mount the flywheel without the key installed and it still shouldn’t spin on the crank. Even when properly tightened down sometimes they pop off easily and sometimes they’re a bear to get off
how do you tighten the flywheel nut without the crank shaft moving? i’m experiencing this same exact problem
I am very late to the party but wanted to add acouple things for other people in this boat. I ran into this on a rzr 900xp. Same type of friction fit taper on the flywheel and crank with a key. The trick I found is that both the flywheel and the crank have to be 100% clean. Yep that means zero oil on the surfaces when installing. When my key broke it was because the service manual I had only called for 88ft and the updated specs were in the 128ft range. Two tricks I used when fixing mine were.... 1. I cleaned the surfaces then used valve lapping compound to clean up both mating tappers since mine were slightly boogered from the 1/4 spin after the key broke. 2. Clean both again and use LOCTITE 641 Retaining Compound but dont get any on the inner side bearing surface. I hope this helps others in this boat. BTW Only use the polaris key so if something happens the harder doesnt score the crank. That would be a VERY bad day!
UPDATE: Just jump to the 4th video. He goes over this. Lol
All of you are wrong the reason it kept breaking was due to it being an alignment key only any time the flywheel comes off the flywheel has to be lapped to the crank!!! That’s his issue
Maybe the crankshaft taper is messed up and flywheel is wobbling on there and thats why it is breaking the key?
I absolutely love your persistence and your ability to not get frustrated!! Good job my friend!
For your next project you should get a 1998 yamaha 350 warrior with no engine and find a 2005 yamaha 350 raptor engine to put on it. Back in 2000 when I was 10, I got a 350 warrior and it had a weak oil pump and completely sheared the cam and it sat for 7 or 8 years and I found out that a 350 raptor engine would fit on the 98 warrior and all you have to do is take the stator off of the warrior engine and put it on the 350 raptor engine and plug it in and go. I rode that quad everywhere and had so much fun on it up to the day I had to sell it to pay bills which sucked. But you should do that for your next project. Would be cool to see someone else put a 350 raptor engine on a 98 350 warrior. Love the videos and keep up the great work.
I thought they were the same engines, could be wrong though 🤔
Yup they are. All you gotta do is change the stator. Take it off the warrior engine and put it on the raptor engine cause the wiring and plugs are different. They built the raptor engines way better and stronger and that's why I did it cause I had problem after problem with the warrior engine. Especially with shearing the cam cause the oil pump
In the UK we had a programme called Wheeler Dealers (not sure if it ever was shown in the USA). The mechanic Edd China was a large reason to why I felt more comfortable working on my cars.... the reason I'm saying this is because YOU are the reason I feel more comfortable with my bikes im building.
Thank you very much for your uploads. It helps more people than you think.
Gavin.
Never heard him so mad “are you kidding me”
When did he say that?
@@yoboymg7387 in the intro and when the key broke again
22:35
@@heislbesn1234 yeah
Me either lol
You need to raise your idle, that's one of the reasons why the key keeps breaking. This happens on earlier 500 engines when the idle is set too low. Also, the Woodruff key from early 400 EX's is made from stronger material and is the same size, and is less likely to break.
Yeah I tried that, seems to be a little better.
That's not why a woodruff key's breaks, it has too much clearance in the flywheel or crank making it fit lose
Need to put it in dry as well clean area good and then dry it all off when installing
I think that you don't need the key at all, he is there only to set the correct position, not to hold anything because what is supposed to hold the flywheel is the taper, and if it's fucked up like here it won't hold it tight and you can replace as many keys as you want. Sometimes i was putting valve lapping paste on the taper and lapping it like valves to smooth the surfaces and it was really helping. And also, sorry for my bad grammary as english is not my native language :D
@@moonshine21.37 You do need the woodruff key, it's a CDI ignition, and when the ignition system fires it is relative to crank position, which is why the flywheel needs to be indexed properly for the ignition to work correctly, hence the point of a woodruff key.
This is why when the woodruff key breaks, it will only occasionally pop/fire. The spark timing is out of wack because the ignition is just happening whenever, and not a specific point.
All those backfires cause a sudden jerk. The last time though there wasn't. I think like you said the flywheel is damaged
Once you get her dialed in it sounds like you have a good quad
Another guy posted that the coil is firing on the wrong time and breaking it or you need to lap the flywheel to the crank with compound and a new key and torque it good
I've had the same thing happen to my polaris I put a new key in and tightened it down more and it was good
Yup , lap it and a new bolt torqued correctly .
I'd also check one way starter clutch on back of fly wheel. You can hear starter engage when you shut quad off which would cause fly wheel to stop prematurely.
Don't give up...you can fix this....pull it and rebuild the whole thing....
Waited till the end cause I knew it was gonna fire up.. good job on having patience 🤟🏻
To fix the key from breaking take some valve lapping compound and put it on the flywheel and on the crank and lap it then take it off clean it and torque to spec that’s probably why it broke in the first place
Make sure that the flywheel bolt is torqued to spec because the key only lines the flywheel up with the crank but the fit of the taper is was actually holds the flywheel.
Use your valve lapping compound and lap flywheel to crank for proper taper fit. Torque of taper fit is what keeps flywheel from spinning. Key only lines up timing.
Beginning to wonder if you would solve this one.. Congrats on getting it running.
Had this same problem with woodruff key shearing. ** Even if you replace the flywheel > tighten down the flywheel bolt *tighter than factory spec* to take the load off the key. Remember > bolts *stretch* every time you re-use / re-torque them (which then renders factory torque specs under spec / not as tight as required). You don't want the woodruff key taking ALL the side to side load. That key is supposed to work in conjunction with the tightness of the bolt. A new factory key + over torqueing the flywheel bolt finally solved my issue. - ***Any side to side keyway play with a re-used bolt that isn't cranked down tighter than factory spec will shear every time. Check side to side play by installing everything except the bolt...then try spinning it by hand back & forth to feel for any side to side slap/play.
Put valve grinding compound on the crank and place flywheel on it. Work back and forth to smooth out the flywheel. Install flywheel with red loctite on the crank surface, and let sit for an hour. May also want to consider a new flywheel nut and washer.
Flywheel and key are softer metal than crank. This method cleans out the key debris and recreates a machined surface on the flywheel to the crank. The locktite files any imperfections and locks flywheel in place with the new key. Keys are cheap, so worth a shot. Your flywheel tool should be able to break flywheel loose even with red locktite if you heat it. Your could even try it without locktite.
how do you tighten the flywheel nut to spec without moving the crank shaft?? i’m experiencing this same exact problem… can’t figure out how I can tighten the flywheel nut to spec with the crankshaft moving
when your applying valve cutting paste, it's easier to apply it to the valve edge directly and drop it into the valve seat, rather than awkwardly dabbing globs of it into the valve seat. Just a tip. love the channel.
That’s crazy. U are a good mechanic I am a diesel mechanic I would be lucky to have 1/2 your patience!!! Love the vids keep it up.
Tapered shafts like on your flywheel need to be spotless clean and dry to keep them solid. Most people think the key keeps the flywheel from spinning but that's false. The key is for alignment purposes only. I have a backpack leaf blower that broke the flywheel key due to a loose flywheel nut. I picked the old key out and simply lined the keyways up and torqued to spec. Been using it like that for 5 years. A clean well lapped taper installed to the correct torque instead of knocked on with an impact won't have this problem unless there's a very significant sudden stoppage (see push mower blade hitting a tree stump). Use your valve lapping compound and bed that taper into the flywheel. Then get it so clean that not so much as a finger print is on it then torque to spec.
Almost buddy.. next go you should always lap the flywheel to the crank with valve grinding compound, and also use blue lock tight on in and around the key, good luck, love the vids!!
We used to have an outlaw 525 thing was definitely used and when it didn’t wanna run it didn’t wanna run!
I’ve read on a forum that the 400ex woodruff key is a bit stronger, u should order that one instead
It is not the key that holds the flywheel, it is held by friction in the tapered joint.
Bought an assortment of harbor freight keys and those things are insane!
cant believe it runs after watching first 20mins, wood ruff key aint doing its job its only a fly wheel ..all the Best pal, good vids.
The guy before you probably tried to start it with the timing off. Piston kissed the valve. Bad gas will also cause a valve to hang and make contact with the piston. Good job 2V! There is hope for America's Trades, you are a great example!
Hey Joe: Put the valve in your drill. Spin the shaft and you will see the valve wobble.
Use grinding paste (coarse and then fine) between crank stub and flywheel mating surfaces. That'll go a long way towards sorting your problem
Man i like what u do, you sure bring them back to life..keep up the good work
I’m not an expert but I don’t think there is supposed to be White stuff in there. Anyway good vid man!
nope you are right! that is unfortunately oil and water/antifreeze mixing. creating that milky solution
I said that exact same sentence to my girl last night!!
@@cwatson42785 💀
@@piketerritory244 Orrr it could be water. Bought a motorcycle from someone that had the carbs pulled off and was allowing rain water to get into the engine while it was sitting outside. Oil looked about just like that.
@@connerlayman4992 yep water and oil mixing!
One more tip. Starting a cold predator with the cv carburetor. Place your hand over the mouth of the carburetor until it starts. This increases the vacuum signal to the carburetor and pulls more fuel for the cold engine.
Its gonna be worth it, definitely the fastest quad you own rn
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 yea I'd probably kill my self on this thing
@@chadcaudill509 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣yeah me to bud🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I own a 2005 predator 500. They are really powerful 4th and 5th gear really pull something different
Nope the raptor and the tecate will both take that thing
@@staygold902 look at my videos, i beat a 700r se lmao
Joe your the most sensible person mate Common sense prevails broski
I think you should replace flywheel before you put another polaris one in. Love the content keep posting!
Please change the oil man it’s straight 2% milk
But when he drains it don’t waste it, make sure to put it in a bowl of Cheerios in the morning !
Bro it might be hydro locking look how milky that oil is. HYDRO LOCKING
Same thoughts here!
sometimes taper shaft jetways break a lot when they are not dry. For example, antisieze can make them breaks because it doesn’t lock on the shaft. It was stupid of polaris to make it a tapered shaft with oil in the section of the engine. Any good backfire will sheer that keyway
The one way gear is notorious for going bad and wiping out keys. It's just behind the fly wheel. Get both if you think you need it. It sounds off on ignition timing but that will be the fly wheel also. Check out the one way. It's supposed to disengage when the motor kicks back.
Best to strip the head off, turn the engine over and see if the piston comes over the top of the barrel. If it doesm the piston will need changing. The piston could be hitting something causing the woodruff key to keep breaking. Or something in the engine is catching the crankshaft. I hear it started while typing this. Perhaps Polaris doodruff keys are too soft metal.
If the connecting rod bearing is bad and loose it will rise up out of cylinder or a broken piston top, What causes that might be a "Run away" motor or someone having open throttle far too long. I could see 7:38 both intake valves imprinted piston and farthest exhaust. It could also be a bad crank bearing same as your Honda 400ex that had a bad crank had a tight spot would cause a jerk spot would strip key.I guess you will stay away from these polaris quads from now on.
@@jmendo2546 I was thinking someone had replaced the piston with another piston which was a little larger in height. Samodel had that problem with a moped he bought in one of his rebuild video's. He is clever where engines are and rebuilds them and also bores them out for more power.
If 2vintage replaces the woodruff key again, he should turn the engine over by hand to see if the piston catches anywhere.
@@jmendo2546 At 7:38, tyhe valves didnt put the imprints on the piston, they are there from manufacturing. Some pistons are like that, some are domed, some are flat and some have a groove around the top. Piston tops come in all different shapes.
@@ianallen2 I rebuild motors all the time I know what i see.//what you think your telling me is the piston has valve reliefs in piston, ((What I see valves hit in the valve reliefs of the piston thats why I put a time stamp on exactally where I see them. Thats why the valve was bent to start with. If the connecting rod bearings are shot they will have play and let piston go higher up.
@@jmendo2546 Thanks. I see what you see now. The lines in the valve relief's, a bit shiny than surrounding areas and following the relief lines. Well spotted. I didnt see them. Sorry if I made it sound as though you were wrong. I thought from the comment you made, I read it as the relief indentation was made by the valves. :). I do find reading something someone has put, it is impossible to read any ways of the typee telling it. Like no emotions / ways of saying things, expressions etc can be seen in the type, unlike when saying them in talk. I will shut up in case I dig a bigger hole for myself. lol. I never meant any harshness towards your comment. :)
Sounds to me like the flywheel is out of round in woodruff area. Good job Joe being patient is very important. If you get frustrated just walk away for a bit and come back to it.
Try to grab valve from top of head and lap it that way, does a great job.
Its me again... So I've seen your face in other videos. You are personable and good looking. Maybe do intro with you talking to us full face, tripod shot. Not shaking cam intro. BE the rockstar breh!
Stop the earthquake cam!
Interesting video
That's a crazy issue good on you for sticking with it an getting her going 👍
As the others have stated, the interference fit between the tapers on the flywheel and crankshaft has been compromised due to the flywheel free spinning. Additionally you're not doing it any favors by not torquing the flywheel nut to spec. You could try lapping the fit followed by a new flywheel install and if that doesn't work but you may end up needing a crank as well. If you freespin a new flywheel on that messed up crank (which can be clearly seen in your second video) you risk the chance of wrecking that flywheel to the point where you'd need another new flywheel to go along with a new crank, so be careful.
Finally with all that fuel you're pouring down your carb, it's possible that it's pooling ontop of your piston and when the starter is attempting to turn it over (via the one way clutch on the flywheel) you are trying to turn over a partially hydrolocked engine which will put extra strain on your flywheel to crank taper which is already weakened. The result is a sheared key....
Darn Polaris, need a Honda😂
Can am
@@yesyt4501 there both really reliable I have a 400ex and a renegade 800
I’ve never liked Polaris myself personally
@@Earth11111 same
@Austin Tanner bro I ain't tryna hate or any that shit, it all depends on how u took care of it and kept up on maintenance
the key is for location - not drive - the taper transmits drive from the crank to the flywheel
Yes! That's why lapping the flywheel to crank is critical to match taper mating surfaces or it will sheer again.
Keep up the great work Joe!!! 👍
I had the same issue with my old predator. Replaced the key with a harder one, went back to a factory ignition box, and raised my idle. I ended up selling it and bought a 400EX.
I've read on multiple predator forums that aftermarket cdi's will kick back destroying owb. Unless you have them re-flashed or some shyight.
Also I have both 400ex and predator...so when the preddy breaks (I haven't had it long enough to break it...yet) I'll still have something to ride....lol.
i love you videos sooo much! every day im waiting to see another! keep it up
woodruff keys are ment to break when theres a problem in the engine to save the engine from completly fucking up,you will get there in the end,like you say fly wheel seems the problem.
try lapping the flywheel and crank surfaces together. Also get a larger Diameter washer to go on the flywheel. That will allow for more clamping surface from the nut. The lapping will allow a better flywheel to crank mating surface. I’ve done this several times.
As for a cause check to see if it has an aftermarket CDI with too much timing advance on startup
Congrats on the start, now just have to figure out the key issue :)
Love what you guys are doing! Great channel
Been a subscriber for years and if it ends up being junk I’ll buy it from you and pay shipping I need parts
One way bearing! I had this on mine, would not freespool and cause the key to shear. Also need to make sure that the flywheel fits the crank perfect, may need to lap it with key out. Also torque to 120ft lbs. And check your valves again, if they made contact with the piston while it was out of time they are bent again too. I cant recall if its an interference motor. Before you reassemble i would check all the above, and get that oil changed 🤣. Are you re-using the head gasket or put new on? Water pump seal to crankcase could also be causing water in the oil. These bikes are a pain in the ass, but if cared for or re-built/repaired with good diligence they are super reliable. I beat the heck out of mine after we fixed it up and it was still runnin strong when i sold it.
Coolant in the oil def need a water pump rebuild kit. Glad you got it running 🤘🏻
i was so happy to see this thing finally running
They break when the engine kick's back when you're trying to start it
Mine kept doing the same thing. Finally figured out the problem. Guys that fly wheel nut has to be torqued at its specs. Or it just break key way.
You need to take a stone and clean both outside and inside tapers, new key and properly hold the engine and tighten the flywheel
Valve lapping compound
@@whistlindixiesmallengine2085 he needs to dress all that damage off there 1st
Agreed
He’s always in a hurry to get things done
I was having issues with a Chinese ATV, ended up ordering a new engine and it ran finally. I feel your pain man. But i wanted to run so my kids can have fun.
You should consider buying and selling vintage sleds. Cheap investment, easy to get running, high demand.
One time I had a cam sprocket spin on me just slightly on the cam so when the timing marks were lined up it was really not timed right. So when starting, the piston hit the exhaust valves making a loud bang and then die like yours and it took me forever to figure it out. Order a new cam and tac welded the gear on the cam to prevent this from happening again. I mention this because maybe thats what's happening and when the piston kisses the valves it snapping you key on the crank. Just some food for thought.
Greetings from Finland! The tapered joint is held by the friction, not the key. Surfaces may be too rough because of the broken key and slippage. Magneto and shaft cone surfaces must be ultra clean and smooth and you should also use Loctite 243 in the cone and nut. Torque to spec. Keep up the good work!
My buddy’s raptor kept on shearing keys because he wasent putting the but on tight enough. Crank that baby on
the key is not for holing the torque, its just for positioning. u have to make sure, the contact surfaces of the crank and the fly are undamaged and oil free. the flywheel holds with the friction between the surfaces. another possibility is that the decompression system istn working and the friction cant sustain the torque.
i hope u understand what i meant
greeetings from germany
Great video as always, if i see the notification I’m clicking it
Better fix this beast we are emotionally involved now lol
Should have done a leak down test
The flywheel need lapped to the crank and need to be properly torqued down. The key isn’t supposed to hold the flywheel, it’s only supposed to line it up. If it’s not tight enough it will keep shearing the keys.
I feel your pain buddy,I got a Suzuki that won't get spark I've tried everything,it did sounds like your one way bearing is bad,you about to get it good luck
Need to lap your mating surfaces on crank and flywheel.. the key is for alignment only.. the taper of the crank shaft is meant to keep the flywheel from spinning
i had a kawasaki 3 wheeler and it had a gap like the intake on this weird that mine would run perfect must be different brands or maybe its because it is 200cc. also i think replacing the flywheel might be a good idea the fly wheel is probably a bit smaller then befor
Clean all the oil off the crankshaft and flywheel and put some of that grinding compound on it you spin it the same way the motor spins until it starts catching real good and then clean it off put it and back on
To check the valve leakage i always get the head level upside down and fill the chamber with rubbing alcohol. let it set for 30 min, see if any of them are leaking by.
I love the fist bump and subtle "woo" when it eventually fired up. Very very weird issue that the woodruff keys keep snapping like that. Your thoughts about there being some wear on the flywheel wheel that there is slight play in the key and enough to snap it could be spot on. I really hope that solves the issue because you have tried everything else.
Take that valve compound and use it onto the flywheel an crankshaft to make a good surface
Fix your water and oil mixing. But you need to lap your crank and flywheel. And make sure to torque it ,not zip on with the impact
@2vintage those are some clean fullbore plastics, worth almost as much used as what you paid for the whole bike.
That explains why there was gas coming out the carb, the air from the bent valve was coming out
Use a 400ex flywheel key. My old predator was doing exact same thing after a aftermsrket cdi box. 400ex woodruff key did the trick
File off any high points on the crank ,put in a new key and use red locktite ,let it set for a couple of hours ,and enjoy it .
starter is breaking the key
Yep. Same thing. Bunged up crank shaft to flywheel threads. AIR ratchet. 100 psi tank works for about 2 minutes. Voila!
Turn the lights off, it’s drawing unnecessary current.
That how he knows that bike actually has power
@@braydenmoug671 the engine turning over isnt a good sign it has power?
And your answer why the keyway keeps breaking is the one way starter clutch is bad.....
Ull have it goin next time mate, i have every faith in u 👍
you said the valves are a little loose.. if they were tight bubba louie that could explain the low compression due to a valve being held open.. but being loose cannot justify low compression.. either you have a bent valve and it just takes one or you have piston and ring damage.. REV IT TO THE MOON BABY!!!! LOL..
Somethings got to be binding up for it to keep snapping keyways hope you figure it out it sounds like it runs good when it does fire
Joe , lap the flywheel on the crank without the key installed , install the key and flywheel with a NEW non T2Y bolt to verify the old one isn't stretched torqued to spec . Not uga dumas. Best of luck sir
You can also have the flywheel lightened, to have less rotating mass
That would be a nice one to restore ground up build keep it going💯
SUPER AWESOME! Great find Bro
I think your missing that washer and it does make a difference
Two things to try, I've heard that Honda 400EX keys are the same size, but stronger. I've also heard that they can keep breaking them if the idle is too low (cammed, lumpy idle, kind of like when it first started).
that keyway breaking looks like a ignition timing issue.. the starter trying to turn the crank one way and the ignition is firing way to early and hammering the piston to a stop and shock loading the keyway.. where is your pick up coil that tells the cdi to fire.. make sure that pick up coil is set properly and if the coil is on the stator make sure your ignition timing marks line up.. i had a husqvarna 610 tc that did the same thing and found out my problem was due to the magnets slipping in the flywheel and throwing the timing out..
@@titletownclowns1545 good point there.. yes he needs to check to see if that cdi is aftermarket... could be the issue..
@@titletownclowns1545 wow you were or are a seabee to!! thats too cool... my last gig with the bees, was NMCB 40 heavy airdet to iraq during op iraqi freedom in 03.. spent a year there with the 5th meu marines.. it was the fucking wild west for a year!! hoora!!
@@titletownclowns1545 wow thats cool worked with 40 there awesome.. i heard talk of that operation but that was after my time there.. i was there during the take over of iraq but the later years when you were there was no joke with all them damn ied,s and convoy ambushes.. i was a CM1 with 40, after the take over we went into a convoy security mode and those were some hairy times wondering if this convoy was your last.. we had a reserve battalion there as well in 03 but i cant remember who it was.. maybe it was MCB 25 id ont know.. WOW WE BOTH CHEWED SOME OF THE SAME DIRT!! COOL..
maybe add a little more of milkshake to your engien oil?
could have a Cracked head thats why he cleaned all the Ice out if you seen first video, and guy gave him a spare head
Lol
I know this video is 3 years old now in 2024, but I always wondered why on higher-compression engines or high-tquark applications why they don't use 2 keyways 120 degrees apart from each other with an alignment dot. I would think that would take care of just this problem, and I know that the world drift key is not meant to hold them together just for alignment, but come on guys. I feel his pain had the same thing happen on a 30Ton Comercial A/C system blower shaft frigen key sheared off 4 times in one year and had to have a custom 2" diameter shaft turned at the machine shop and we put two keyways 120 apart plus went with deeper and longer keys, That sucker won't sheer off in 100 years now! lol
My Polaris always breaks the key and I ordered a Honda key for it which are suppose to be stronger keys and if it works I’ll tell you
Whenever you get it fixed you’ll love it and they are pretty loud too