Steam Stoker Engine Restoration 12: Reassembling the Valve Assembly
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Reassembling the steam stoker engine that we are restoring. This restored engine will be used by Nashville Steam on the restoration of the No. 576 Steam Locomotive.
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Check out Chuck's video on building the couple pieces at OutsideScrewball on UA-cam: / @outsidescrewball
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Enjoying the quick time-lapses being included during the repetitive sections of the video instead of just cutting them out.
Great job Keith
When you stop and think about the amount of time and effort (plus skill) it takes to restore just the stoker engine to pristine condition, then multiply this by all the other individual components needing similar restoration on an old locomotive, its easy to see why the cost of restoring a century old steam locomotive is measured in $$ millions. Thanks Keith. I'm very mechanically inclined but know nothing about machining and shaping metals. Its so fascinating to watch you work and explain what you are doing.
A few more pieces of the puzzle! Adam better hurry up with that main case.
Excellent project and I cant wait to see you make the rings for those valve rods.
Good job as usual. I am really stoked to see this engine complete and running again.
Ron I see what you did there.
I use to live in Nashville I past the locomotive every day when I was in college glad to see its getting restored 20 years later. I still consider Nashville home even though I live in Arkansas now. Can't wait to go for a ride when it's done.
GREAT JOB, KEITH...
Very small spool valves like those were used in the hydraulic actuators of the F-8 Crusader and A-7 Corsair II in the 50s thru 70s. I am not sure if they used rings. The spools were moved around by a solenoid and a small yoke. It is a tried and true idea. Nice work on all the new parts. Thanks again for sharing the work.
The place I used to work was overhauling A-7s through the late '80s before the F-18s finally replaced them. I don't doubt that this type of spool valves were used in the actuators.
@@bobvines00 BTW the USSR used similar tech in the MIG 21. I saw a valve captured in the 6 day war - well made.
This is why these steam restorations are a million plus dollars its small machine shops who remake the parts too bring back the steam engines of yester years.
Hi Keith. Looking at those clevis parts made by an OSS. You know, you are not quite old enough to remember that fellow Aesop. He was around a few years ago, But he told me something interesting. "When you want something done, the best person to do it is YOU." I've found that is pretty much true over the years. We all know your skills and that you do have limitations enforced on you by the size of your machines, large though most of them are. But little stuff... Best done in house. Your work is tops, Keith. I know, without a doubt - and so do all your subscribers - that if four of those were made, you would have two spares that you could send along with the assembled stoker engine. Just a thought, Kieth. Stay safe, stay well, be happy you have a nice big shop to play in while the rest of the world goes crazy. By the way - I strongly support the comment my Mr. Ryan P. You are no amateur. It is a joy to watch you work as well as a great educational experience.
Nice project
I would love to watch you make rings for the valves. I watched my grandfather make rings for a compressor when I was a kid. But, I don't remember how he did it. I would love to know how.
Gday, Nice job Keith, I’m heading over to check out Chuck now, please take care, Matty
In Europe we call a Cotter pin one which has a flat tapered section, used to secure cranks. Commonly found on the cog side of a bicycle. What you are describing would be called a spit pin.
The UK and US are separated by a common language.
Where i used to work we had a wartime box marked "split cotter pins" but everybody knows them as split pins.
Going to bee cool when you get it all .back together. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for mentioning McMaster Carr. Makes me feel better for using them since I had my machine shop in Summit Illinois. One project I want to do is a live steam model of an Elvin stoker
THANK YOU...for sharing. Watched and very much as always enjoyed.
Thanks for the update. I appreciate all the work you have been showing recently.
Can't wait to see this thing working. B.t.w. keith i ran into issues and our conversation it may take till next week to mail the parts we spoke of. Again thanks for your videos/knowledge and just being a great teacher and human
Been a while since we've seen anything on the Stoker engine or the planer - was starting to wonder if they'd been forgotten.
@Anifco67 Wow - have you got some sort of issue dude? If you don't like it don't watch it.
Great, can't wait to see some steam on this
Really nice! I always enjoy your videos.
This reminds me of the connecting rod and cross head assembly on Gemini natural gas compressors. Same concept.
Very interesting Keith. Can't wait to see this completed and installed.
For asthetics, blued connecting rods/caps would’ve looked really nice on the finished product. Great job, Mr. Rucker!!!
The Photographic Auditor
It would, but once the stoker engine is put back together, these parts will not be seen by anyone again until the next time the engine is disassembled. So basically, it would be a waste of time and funds to do that.
At first I thought that valve was a monster size M-16 firing pin!
I’m stoked! Great video.
Great job Keith, I see once you do a part the next seem to go much more quickly
Keith's coffee probably helped. ;)
Using your tap follower in the tail stock, Put the lathe on super slow, Grab the spinning tap handle. When the tap bottoms you can feel it and simply let go. works great, has good feel and a lot less work.
Another great video, Mr. Rucker.
Great Work Keith. Thank you for sharing.
Good video!
Cant wait till the next video.
never heard of "JAM"nuts we call them "LOCK" nuts, am also fascinated at the way you try to pronounce OIL, as always such a great contribution to ongoing education and sharing of knowledge and experience
Well, what do they do? Lock or jam? I'm kind of leaning towards "jam" in this operation.
Lock Nuts here in Australia.
Jam nut is correct as Keith is using the term, at least in the US. ASME B18.2.2-2010 "Nuts for General Applications: Machine Screw Nuts, Hex, Square, Hex Flange, and Coupling Nuts (Inch Series)" refers to hex "jam" nuts along with regular hex nuts in its tables of dimensions.
ASME B18.12-2001 "Glossary of Terms for Mechanical Fasteners" paragraph 3.2.1.16 states "jam nut: a hex nut having a reduced thickness-usually 63-70% of the hex nut thickness. It is used to provide resistance to loosening in combination with thicker nuts."
ASME B18.12-2001 also states in paragraph 3.2.1.18 "lock nut: there are two basically different types of lock nuts: (1) a prevailing-torque type that resists relative bolt-nut movement with or without an axially applied load to the bolt-nut combination, and (2) a free-running type that exhibits a locking ability when there is an axial load applied to the base of the nut. The “locking” or stopping action of the nut is accomplished by thread deformation, or clamping, or by the addition of nonmetallic inserts. The free-running type usually has a design feature that adds to the elastic elongation of the bolt-nut combination."
"Lock nuts" like these can be purchased at your local hardware store, but I don't know if you'll find an "official," thin jam nut there.
Always informative.
Great great video. I saw chuck’s first it was epic chuck, i feel his pain. I have gotten the way something goes stuck i my head and have botched a job! The other way also know something and went with a wrong print number or a written in number chicken scratch. Thanks for sharing this awesome project!!!
Following right along with you Keith, and I watched Chuck make those parts also last week...I also am subscribed to his You-Tube channel.
Those nuts can be made with round stock then cut the hex on the outside using a spindex or a dividing head. I have to make them form time to time. It is usually cheaper than trying to find the right size hex in a given grade of steel. Most of the ones that I do are in 4140 or 4130.
Looking good.
Hi Keith I'm loving your videos they are really entertaining and educational. Sadly I can't make use of any of this because I live in a city and have no workshop or tools neither projects to embark.... But at least I have fun watching. I just wanted to say Hi and let you know that this video is missing from the stoker engine's list. It jumps from 11 to 13. Maybe you are interested on adressing that. Maybe you don't. I won't judge you lol. Bye and greetings from Argentina.
Very nice Keith - I enjoyed this video and learned something too!
Watching this video made me think about your planer project. Have you thought about having an eccentric on the feed gear shaft and using it to run a mechanical lubricator (as used on many steam engines). It might be a very apt method of oiling the ways.
I have an 18" swing 1947 Leblond lathe.
I don't mind castellated nuts for attachments that don't need fine adjustment, but for something like wheel bearings they are a nightmare.
Interesting you turn the tap. I always set the tap and turn the Chuck
50 of one, half of the other, right?
Nice video its good to see the stoker engine coming along ! i'M GLAD CHUCK'S PARTS CAME OUT GOOD HE HAD A HARD TIME MAKING THEM!
There is a section on rings in a machining book tempering etc. Yeah on calling a cotter pin a cotter pin and not cotter key(wrong) split pin ( wrong different item) thumbs up
thanks for showing me how to make a castle nut
The Blueprints you have shown are from the N&W Railroad, not the NC&StL whose engine you are working on. Different railroad may have different 'standards' for their use and operation of the same piece of equipment - standards based on that railroads own experience.
Keith, great work. Do you drill the crosshole for the cotter pin for the castle nut after it has been trial tightened? Otherwise, how can you ensure that the crosshole will align with one of the crosscuts on the castle nut after it is tightened?
You obviously know exactly what you are doing, just curious why you don't run the tap backwards to break the chips? Great videos!
Just out of curiosity, do you have the plans uploaded anywhere for this, I’d love to have a gander.
Can't wait until you assemble the entire mechanism and test it with lp air. If, in fact, you intend on doing that.
Keith, this video #12 is missing from the stoker playlist
The reason for the different hex nut sizes may be explained in a somewhat similar to manner to what happen to Whitworth nuts and bolts in the UK.
Here during WWII the hex size was reduced by one size to save metal for the war effort.
There's more information here www.crawford-space.co.uk/old_psc/spanner_jaw.html
it is possible that the surface area on those clevis like connections was increased in service
Regarding the piston rings, have a word with John Mills, aka Doubleboost. He's made some, and could probably advise you.
Dave Richards at Old Steam Powered Machine Shop has made rings many times as well.
Bonjour Keith,
I especially appreciate this project because steam is my passion and I understand what I see as my model steam machines are built on the same principles, except the size of course :+)
I can't wait to see this steam machine running again!
I have a little question : Does the new metal you use have the same hardness than the old one ? If not, Would it have an impact somewhere ? For example
cast iron segments and cylinders or valves...
Amicalement, Raphaël
Nice!! :-)
(@19:19) - Hey, Keith, don’t assemble that paper clip into there; that’s excess to requirements! 😊 Looks like this is coming along fine. Are you going to have those valves re-made? They look really pitted from decades of hard use! 😎
Its curiosity more than criticism, but I was wondering: Is there any particular reason you dont have compressed air at the mill? I've spent more time watching than I have operating but a quick puff of air seems a lot more efficient than a paintbrush. Keep up the good work, Keith.
Chips get inside the machine and cause damage over time. Best to avoid air whenever possible.
The old German toolmaker I apprenticed with would not have compressed air in the shop. It will drive the chips and grit into all the little places that you don't want it. I use a shop vacuum, very quick and much cleaner.
you could ask ABOM to spray weld the original rings up and turn and polish them to size also if you make some maybe make them from bearing bronze
Also id get the cylinder walls chrome plated after they are rehoned so they are slicker and you got less whare also once you run the steam engine - put a brake disk into the earth/ground and get a old phone charger or low electric use battery charger hooked onto the maschine with the negative elektrode
This is what gas stations do with their silo tanks for example , it actively prevents rust from electrochemical corrosion like a sacrificial anode on a boat but way better
I allways wondered how it comes that steam engines dont rust within hours --- I mean they are wet inside and hot after use and made of cast - also how do you lube a cylinder that gets steam-cleaned like by a steam-pressure washer - can you use normal motor oil?
And what will you power? will you put crankshafts with belt drives onto the cealing like in pre 1900 old maschine shops to power old belt driven maschines like your shaper and stuff?
FYI: This part is not in the "Stoker Playlist"....:-)
Yeah, that little round piece is called a "washer face".
Question: My father, born about 1911, would use a cutting oil expedient made of 50% 30 wt engine oil and 50% lard for cutting threads. What do you think about the practicality of this, remembering this was a cheap alternative during the depression?
When I worked for Boeing we used "crisco" shortening to tap 4-40 threads in titanium parts. Worked really good.
Innovation is good.
Stoker engine applicaion drawing at www.railarchive.net/firing/images/p028_large.jpg
are You looking for any parts for the Leblond?
I'm assuming the grade of material used for the nuts is of no consequence.
Hi :-) Will you make the rings out of Ductile iron ? Or will you go the regular cast iron rings? On the steam engines I've helped out making rings for, we have used Ductile Iron as it's not as brittal as regular Cast Iron
@18:26 the cast iron is up in the air as Keith hits the tight pin with a hammer. He hasn't thought about what he's doing and it's a matter of chance that the very old and thin section of cast doesn't snap.
If you are not going to paint any of the internal parts, won't they rust quickly and therefore start their demise again? Lots of internal engines have a coat of paint inside to help keep them running longer. Even bluing parts would help. Just wondering...
whats a internal engine?
@@jacobpoucher I meant to say internal combustion engine. But I've seen all types of engines painted inside...
I think there's an oil bath in there. No need for paint. Besides paint can flake of and get where is shouldn't be.
@@liquidsonly Gary may have well been right that it originally had a Glyptol type paint in there. Seems like a lot of the pre-war cast machinery I've worked on had glyptol everywhere that was internal. But that stuff is like $60 a quart, so I'd make the financers pay for it if it was painted.
@@liquidsonly The trouble with the oil bath in this type of engine is water ...
steam leaks and then condenses...
So yes mandatory checking for water and a good tight packing between the lid and the machine fram is good.
Hi Keith! What's the status of the locomotive restore?
Why do you never back out to break the thread a little ........?
When I learned to tap, I was tought to go in 1/2 turn and back out 1/4 turn to clear the chips, I notice you don't, why not?
Same here ....
He's using machine taps
hackjob rucker aint the smartest.
I noticed that too, my metalwork teacher would be hopping about on one foot!
I don't think I ever seen Keith back out a tap :)
Those are eccentric rods.
Older machinists have told me that rounded pieces are stronger than 90 degrees. As the tension spread more even on a ronded piece. What is the general opinion?
What you are describing is a stress riser. A sudden change of shape in a part can create an area where stresses get large fast and then overloads the material to the point of failure.
what % of nut is cut out for cotter pin, looks like about 1/3. or is there no standard?
Hiya Keith, did you use a bottom tap in the two second nuts to combat the taper off the starting tap? Keep safe & take care...
There was clearance past the thickness of the nuts. (The hole was drilled deeper than the thickness of the two nuts combined.) And it wasn't a starting tap. You can see almost full threaten all the way to where it enters the hole. And he shows them being assembled at the end.
@@xenonram Sorry were you there? I asked Keith a procedual question, not what you could see.
@@stephencoster9532 keith rarely answers comments, so helpful people chime in for him.
Stephen, no need to be combative. One doesn't have to be there to answer a question with information that's clearly provided in the video, both in what's shown and stated. He used a standard tap and specifically stated no bottoming tap would be used because he drilled past the depth needed so the standard tap can cut the threads to size.
Do you recommend any particular type of steel for making nuts like these? I have an old tool I’d like to restore that originally used an odd sized nut. I’ve found what I need for something like $50 for six nuts, so I’m thinking of making them myself instead. Thanks.
4140 is an all purpose, "go to" alloy (chromoly) . Tough and corrosion resistant.
Great content. One question though. Can you have the rings chrome plated? I would think a chrome Molly finish would guard against wear better than just iron.
Thank you.
I think that the idea is to have the rings wear rather than the valve piston bore!
You'd probably rather have the rings wear than have the cylinder bore wear.
@@k4kfh The rings are easier to replace than the cylinder sleeve and easier to make.
Did you hardned the pins Kieth?
You should >>REALLY
Do you really think that the nuts from 1890 that were a rated grade/type? Cmon man, use your head. Metals were cheese back then and they still worked. I think Keith is pretty experienced in Steam engines compared to most of us and telling him he needs to throw away his hard work and start over is nothing short of insulting.
To begin with : this is the valve gear, that castle nut must prevent the piston valve to move on the rod, it doesnt take the force of the stroke.
The real steam piston is pressed on a conical seat on the rod and then secured with a castle nut.
What is important is: DONT forget the split pin !!! Or believing that some type of modern clet (ie locktite) or that matter teflon stop nuts is usable....
@@TheMetalButcher This locomotive and stoker engine was built in the late 1930's or early 40's. The valve spools don't take very much force to move as is exerted on the pistons which have the full steam pressure driving the stoker.
I am not referring to the castle nuts he just made for the valve spools, I am referring to the rod end cap castle nuts he mentions at the 20:30 mark. The rod end cap bolt/nut combination does not take any force on the power stroke. The tension force the rod, end cap, and bolt/nut assembly experiences during the direction reversal creates a massive spike in the tension force the castle nut and bolt see. The force the rapid velocity change exerts is significant enough to destroy a system. Making castle nuts is a viable option and yes making castle nuts would be another great video. My point was why take the risk? Why upgrade everything else but the weakest part of a rotational system? There is nothing wrong with restoration to original specs, but why risk it? Metal butcher, I love the contradiction. I hear so many people talk about "old iron" being superior to modern iron, and here you are stating just the exact opposite when you are in fact restoring an old machine in your videos. The fact you think what I said earlier is insulting..well..I don't know what to say.
@@sshep7119 Nice try on the old iron thing. When people say that, they're referring to "old machines" (made of iron, typically) which many of which were in fact constructed with more care, built to a higher quality of standard, and often designed better as well. Only someone ignorant about metallurgy would think that old metals even come close to modern metals in strength.
The valve rods sit on an eccentric. They really don't turn that fast. They really don't have that much force. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. It wouldn't surprise me if Keith replaced them because that's what he does, but this isn't a high force scenario.
Re: insulting. I missed that you were talking about rod caps. I assumed you were telling Kieth that he needs to remake the nuts he just made in this video, which yes, I would find insulting.
Out of curiosity, the parts that Chuck made, have a rounded part that the originals didn't. Is there a reason for that? Making them square like the originals would have been easier.
Did you bother to watch the video? This was explained, right off.
@@paulcopeland9035 Woops, my bad. I missed it.
@@mattwilkins1597 Yep, easy to do. Have a good day.
Is the hex bar stainless steel?
Interesting you call those 'castle' nuts. Here in Canada, I have always heard them referred to as castilated nuts. Means the same thing I suppose, but it is always interesting to hear regional differences in speech. You don't have what I would call a 'southern' accent, but there are certianly elements in your speech. One phrase you use interests me. You often say "And such" where I would say "And so on". I have never heard that before. Is that a southern or regional phrase?
In any case, in any language or dialect, I enjoy your videos! Keep safe during the Covid-19 mess!
He absolutely has a distinct US 'southern' accent - Georgia to be exact. It's very easy for me to hear. One of the easiest examples is when he pronounces 'oil' as 'awl', which is the classic 'southern drawl'. Also when he says 'made by mah friend...' instead of 'mye friend'. '' Saying 'and such' is kinda Southern, but I've heard it from various US regions, not sure the origin. Though 'castellated' is the correct academic term, just about everyone that I've encountered calls them 'castle' nuts, even listed as such at most vendors and in parts catalogs
Yes, that is certainly true... now that I think of it. Thanks!
What keeps the the stems to rod union lubricated?
Ol!
What material are the nuts made of?
Brilliant Keith, as always.
Still don't understand why you American boys call a split pin a cotter pin. A cotter pin is different as it's solid and tapered (like what holds an older bike crank on but they can go up to massive).
Do you back off your tap when tapping?
Also, would love to see the rings being made.
Great channel Keith, thanks.
What is happening with the planer
will the locomotive still be coal fired?
That's what the stoker is for to feed coal to the fire box
Next time please take a second and tell what material you use for the nuts. Is it any thing special to handle the steam or 1018 or some other generic stock.
السلام عليكم
Again, could you get a wind sock for your mic? Sounds like you are dragging it down a dirt road in a wind storm.......
Hate to bug you I ask a couple weeks ago about wanting to know if you'd be intrested in making me a firing pin for my old 22 caliber mac 10 Uzi combination knockoff the firing pin broke years back and I've tried everything to find on nobody has one for sale looking for find somebody that would make me one wouldn't take you very long but if you're interested send me back a message and we'll get together and set something up for shipping it to you and stuff if not I won't bug you anymore thanks by
We know HOW it works. Get on with it. Do it while talking Keith. Were not dumb. Don’t treat us as idiots please