Very cool Kieth. My grandfather was a pattern maker and a couple of the things I inherited from his shop was his set of shrink scales and his radius core box planes, along with some of the mahogany patterns he made some 70 years ago. Nice work!
Keith, I love you and your channel and have watched you in awe for years. HOWEVER, I used to own and operate a cabinet shop for 20 years and still do some professional level woodworking. IF I HAD AN EMPLOYEE TURN A PIECE OF WOOD WITH WOOD SCREWS (OR ANY OTHER METAL) IN THE WOOD WHILE TURNING I WOULD FIRE THEM INSTANTLY. Why. Because wood lathes, especially using dead wood centers vrs some type of chuck, are inherently dangerous. It is extremely easy to catch the tool on the wood and for the wood to erupt out of the lathe and into the turners face. For this reason most wood turners use face shields. Most professional turners have lost a few pieces over the years. It is inevitable. Wood isn't metal, you don't know the state of grain inside of a large piece until you start turning. That said, any piece of metal inside of a turning can easily catch the turning tool and will eject the work piece out of the lathe. Is there a safe way to turn this piece? Not really, because it isn't solid the way you are making your two halves. How would I have done this? I would have made the two blocks like you did, without the two index pins. I would have used a white glue (old type of Elmer's not the modern glues OR hide glue to glue the two blocks together with a layer of brown paper bag between the two blocks. Then I would have turned the cylinder. After it was turned, I would have drilled two holes for the pins before separating the two halves. The hole does not go through both pieces, but it does go over half way. Then using a wood chisel, I would separate the two halves splitting the turned piece on the paper spacer. Finally, I would clean up the mating surfaces and install wooden pins through the piece with holes drilled through it, and finally cut and file of the excess wood from the pins on the outside of the pattern. Would this have taken longer and required more skill? Absolutely. But it would be so much safer than what you did and I could never condone your technique in a professional shop where I was paying workmen's comp insurance. And a face shield is mandatory under OSHA. It is not a optional accessory especially for non-professional turners.
Keith, great content! Your content is reminiscent of my 4 years in HS.in the 60s where we were fortunate to have an excellent electrical, pattern, foundry and machine shop. First year was doing a round robin training in all the shops and then deciding on the one for your final 3 years. I chose the machine shop. That background was the best for me in my 50 + year career as a union IUOE. Local 18 heavy equipment mechanic/welder and everything in between and now enjoying a great defined benefit pension and healthcare plan. Your videos and the many others in this YT. content community are a great inspiration showing a highly needed career choice in this country. If one is not set on a college degree this is a fantastic and respected option. Thanks, Ed K. Oh.
I made a jig to push on a seal and it use two bolts to hold it, the other two for stud bolts pull a ring to press in the seal. I lent it to a coworker to do a seal replacement he flipped it upside down and the bolt didn’t line up any more so he beat the snot out of it with a hammer a brought it back and said it didn’t work.
@@paulsilva3346 If you have the dowels placed exactly symmetrical it wouldn't matter. If one or the other was an 1/8" off, when you flipped it the wrong way they'd be misaligned by 1/4".
@@paulsilva3346 All I can say to that is that in real life, I'm not good enough on the lathe nor on the pin placement to make it perfectly symmetrical so I don't pretend I can and make them far enough off that even a twit can see it.
Kieth I bought a drill chart that you offered on your website. It came today and looks wonderful on my shop wall it was a birthday gift to myself. I look forward to using it for the rest of my life out in my shop!
A sheet of paper glued between the wood is a common way to temperately hold the 2 parts of a split pattern together. Make sure the glue doesn't saturate the paper when gluing. If done properly the paper will rip leaving a layer glued to each half of the pattern. You probably want to do a test with the glue and some scrap wood first to make sure the paper is strong enough to do the work but can still be split. Remember wet paper has little strength so you have to let it dry completely. Also, don't glue the dowels in until after you have split and sanded off the remaining paper. Thanks Keith!
Using mahogany just adds to the historic feel to the restoration. In the end the pattern can be given to the Steam group for a display or to hold in reserve if needed in the future.
I can't be the only one who would much rather watch you make an old school wooden pattern than have it 3D printed... Nice work. I hope Clarke will show us his corebox making machine, sounds cool!
Hey Keith next time try glueing the halves together with a piece of paper in between .. after you are done turning you can separate the halves at the glue line with a chisel and tap with a mallet.
There used to be a company called LA Sleeve that would send you sleeve blanks or make you sleeve blanks. They were pretty reasonable from what I remember and they were turned iron or steel. Wait time was usually a couple weeks but they always delivered and they were great quality.
Hey another cool project. Like the scraping, seeing the steps in different process's (way more intresting than tv) and the think about it It's just the better way to go decisions that are made on the way. very intresting Thanks
I've had good results from making expanded polystyrene plugs for investment casting. yes you need to make one for each item but no need for cores etc. plus you can incorporate much of the detail to, like all those holes etc.
Amazing the echo in your wood shop compared to the metal shop - full of interesting stuff. Yes, Mahogany is beautiful wood to work with. Hot DOg, Keith. Those little hole markers do com in handy. Almost 100% perfect every time. Nice piece of work, Keith. Simple though it might be, it still requires some skills and planning.
Keith,. I completely agree that this mold is much easier and quicker to do than 3D print because it is so simple. You need at least 2 castings and 1 for practice. Why not make 3 molds so they can ram them up all at once rather than using 3 different flasks?
like watching chips being made be they metal or wood. Back in the '60s LA City Schools used to teach wood working. One of my projects was turning a fruit bowl out of Monkeypod. Been a long time since then.....
Looking good, one thing you may want to look at in the future is leaving yourself enough room to put some radial draft on the ends. That helps with removing the patterns from the mold. You can do it pretty easily with some hand files. You don't have a terribly tall vertical section there where the pattern meets the core print. And small vertical sections like that are more prone to tear up in the molding process.
Amazing to me how many “Experts” there are to correct Mr. Rucker yet some how he has made this far with all of his fingers, both hands and all other body parts. Wow, just incredible how many anonymous experts there are out there that don’t have their own channel.
Toby W I don’t disagree with you in principle however it is through risk taking and error that mankind has advanced so much there is no advancement without risk, respectfully.
At 17:28, you suspected that "My lathe tools needed sharpening regardless". It's been my experience that when I wonder if they could stand sharpening, they've needed it for some time.
Is your table saw and jointer set up? Sawing the corners off your blank into an octagon might have sped up the turning. And a quick trip across the jointer on the mating faces would have been appropriate.
Keith, instead of screwing the halves together, could you have used the trick of placing a sheet of kraft paper between the halves and gluing them together? That give a weak but reliable joint that can easily be separated after turning, and wouldn't have endangered your gouge.
Thanks Keith good video nice too see progress for the stoker engine ! Now over to Clarke's for the second part! And waiting on Adam also maybe a SNS SOON!!
I'm wondering about the part Adam was going to repair. Last time I saw it was several weeks ago ... maybe longer ... in the background of one of his SNS sitting outside getting rusty.
Very true, but the comment regarding the length of the core print, is, I believe, valid. Imagine the degree of flotation of liquid iron, given the relative weights of the sand core VS iron.
Keith; Why not purchase a piece of heavy wall black iron pipe at your local builder supply store? It is used all the time for sewer work and you might have even been able to get an off-cut for a discount. Appreciate the work process of pattern making and pouring the mold (hope to see Clark at Windy Hill have a video on this). Hopefully will have a chance to see you again at this year's Bar Z bash if it comes off. Ron
Beautiful resourcefulness, but it's a pretty sharp indictment of our materials industry that you found it worthwhile to turn foundry patterns out of mahogany because nobody with the appropriate stock would make two cuts with a bandsaw for a fair price. In lockdown, deprived of my gym and with home exercise equipment shortages everywhere, I had some makeshift dumbbells cut to length from 2" steel rods by this kind of supplier. It was remarkably expensive.
When I was an apprentice c. 60 yrs ago. Pattern Makers had special rulers to allow for shrinkage. From memory this was some 12% but all our casting were aluminium alloy or magnesium.
Keith, Thank you for showing how easy it can be to make this type of pattern. Do you add the screw holes for removing the pattern halves from the mold, or is it easier for the Foundryman (Clarke) to add them? I'm looking forward to watching you machine the castings when you get them. That ought to be a very interesting series of videos. Will you have Clarke pour any "spares," just in case?
Rookie question: Since cast iron stock/pipe of the correct size is so difficult/expensive to source, would it be possible to use some alloy of steel instead while maintaining the properties needed?
When you said the mating surfaces had to be flat and smooth, I wondered why you didn't scrape them in with the BIAX and blue them up on your surface plate. What kind of a machinist are you anyway? Oh, wait, you also work with wood. Never mind. ;^D) Hope to see you at the Bar-Z, if there is one this year. Jon
22:39: I'm not a "Safety Nazi" but this is EXTREMELY dangerous at the risk of arm amputation if your hand gets pulled between the tool rest and workpiece. I've had the sandpaper catch before and I was cringing just watching this part.
Keith, What do you plan to use to make the cast iron piston rings? Do you have material available or do you need to have additional cast iron cylinders cast at a smaller diameter?
As for a guy who collects tools like Imelda Marcos collected shoes I was a bit disappointed when you failed to bring out the pattern makers rulers to demonstrate how to make an accurate pattern. The only time I heard the term shrinkage was relating to casting quality and not dimension. I know the castings are just a substitute for a convenient metal supply however it is a critical part of pattern making. Also there is never an excuse to put your hand in between the rest and the rotating workpiece. What were you thinking?
@@xenonram Just to let you know If you want to cast something say a foot long out of cast iron you need to make the pattern longer than a foot even if you don't want to machine it. It depends on thickness but a rule of thumb is 1% for grey iron, 2% for steel. However shrinkage in casting can also refer to thick and thin sections of a casting that are joined together. Because the thick section cools more slowly when it does it will try to pull material away from the thin and depending on how much difference there is between the two it can leave holes and a sponge like cross section. Well that is the 30 second explanation for you it is a trade in itself and there is a whole lot more to it.
I've never used a metal lathe, but I wondered whether or not you could have turned the pattern on one instead of the wood lathe you used. It seems that would give more accuracy on the final dimensions since you could make micrometer adjustments that would be consistent all along the length. is that right?
@@JorgTheElder I wasn't suggesting that he make the pattern out of metal. I am wondering if it is possible (or feasible) to make the wooden pattern on metal lathe which tends to have so much better precision control.
Yes you can do so, but cleanup can be a problem; the thing to have is a patternmaker's wood lathe, which is equipped with a carriage, cross slide and compound rest, yes, I have one!
It looks like the grain on the mahogany was fine enough that it wasn't necessary to use filler and paint to make the pattern smoother to facilitate release from the sand casting. That plus the cylindrical shape of the pattern provides natural draft to the pattern to further facilitate release.
I did not see that comment about end radius. I note his comment about giving it a coat of shellac, that was the custom back in the day, but it necessitates having to sand and re coat several times because it raises the gran and roughens the surfaces, these days, a coat of brushing lacquer made for pattern work is the custom, and some foundries using a dry sand molding systems further coat with a special coating to prevent sticking, this coating as I have seen it is aluminum colored and never seems entirely dry.
Wondering if the guy at Windy Hill can produce the proper quality for a ductile iron sleeve. from his videos, it appears he just uses old brake rotors. Most engine sleeves use a special formula of cast with certain carbon and magnesium content,
Since the temperatures here in south Georgia have been in the high 80s and low 90s, I do not think that there is much use for a heating appliance until next December.
Mike Hegdahl, was he going to be able to get hot enough to melt cast iron with his furnace? I thought it was more for melting aluminum or brass. It would probably be hot enough to warm the shop up though! Lol
@@Hoaxer51 his intention was to use it outside and had both oil, or diesel fule and propain to get to 3000 degrees which is hot enough to forge cast iron. But have not seen a video of it in use yet. Very nice build and a heck of a lot of good info and a very nice build!
@@Hoaxer51 Clarke Easterling is very good at casting these type parts and does it for a living. Keith has other things to do besides experiment cast iron casting.
My comment is that the core prints are too short to properly support the core against floating upwards when the metal is poured, which would result in the casting being non concentric; I would make them at least an inch long or longer and they should have a generous draft angle on them.
I thought the same , but he didn't specify it would be green sand so it might be a hard mold like resin bonded or co2 sand. Ideally it would be cast on end if the molding box has a cutout for a joint line down sprue, it self feeds that way and any incusions that are pushed to the top can just be cut off the end. I was surprised the foundry wouldn't have a stock core close enough in size that he could have sized his prints to instead of needing a core box made.
What?? No getting ballsey and casting the ports in as well? If you did that boring and turning and facing to the correct length and position would be all you would need to do.😎
@@paulcopeland9035 You have missed the point Keith's pattern making video are not helpful for people trying to make foundry patterns.( 50 Th. Years in the trade ) Keith's videos on scraping are very good he has taken the time to learn the craft form this piers. This pattern making videos are way off the mark! As a teaching aid.
Cullen I see your channel has no content only negative remarks. It's ashamed that a Mr.F....g PERFECT person as your self doesn't produce videos to show the world all your self proclaimed knowledge!
The poor material used for cast iron SEWER Pipe is not a high enough quality for construction of pistons and cylinders. Containing air bubbles, and other impurities..
@@royreynolds108 depends upon if it's gray iron or ductile iron for the shrink factor, but yes that's a good rule of thumb. Nice thing is he already had it oversized.
Shrink rules are made in shrink values expressed in inches per foot, for iron, 1/8" for most work, and .1" for cylinders, for most small patterns, no allowance is necessary.
@@biggreasies537 depending on what sort of core they use, diameter shrink may not be the same. Sometimes the overall length will shrink to account for the fact that it can't shrink the same amount around the core. Centerline shrink factors are a good general rule, but in actual practice tend to be geometry dependent.
Depends on the company. In the UK the Great Western Railway insisted that their locos would only steam well on welsh steam coal. Lancashire and Yorkshire used local steam coal from the northern pits in their locos (this was still not hard coal) . However the radiant brick arch in the firebox, designed I believe by Matthew Kirtly of the Midland railway, meant that anthracite was not necessary (as it was in early locos) because the arch provided a secondary combustion to use the unburnt volatiles in the combustion products before they left the firebox thus increasing the heat recovered.
@@mikewoods4177 Your comments remind me of an issue of the English version of TOP GEAR , where Jeremy Clarkson feeds coal to the boiler of a steam engine as it was racing from the Southern Part of England to the northern part of that island. Funny as hell!
I previously mentioned that he should contact LA Sleeve, or otther company that makes cast-iron sleeves for just this pupose. www.lasleeve.com/tech/custom-sleeves
I have always wondered why wood lathes don't have simpler saddle arrangement like metal lathes do to make turning a long shaft type easier and more precise.
3 hours!?!? No way. Maybe with 5% fill, but this would require a much higher fill to be sturdy enough to hold up to packing the sand. At 100% fill, it would take 10s of hours. So a high enough fill would be close to a 15 hour print. Add in CAD, a couple hours to finish it to get it smooth, and possible failed prints, you're talking a couple/few days. Even with a 3d printing tech besides filament, that produces a better finish, it would take FAR longer than a wood pattern. A more intricate pattern would be a candidate for 3d printing, but a couple one like this isn't worth the time.
@@xenonram You're simply wrong. The cylinder doesn't have to be solid to be cast does it? Just thick enough that there's enough to machine off. So I stand by my assertion that on my delta at 120mm/s to print a cast-able cylinder for that part it would take about 3 hours.
Like that you show the making of the pattern. Have a nice day. NORWAY
I hope when the time comes we get to see the sand mould being made and the part being poured
maggs131 Check out Windy Hill Foundry to see the whole process.
Keith, I LOVE your exposition. You're a great teacher!
Very cool Kieth. My grandfather was a pattern maker and a couple of the things I inherited from his shop was his set of shrink scales and his radius core box planes, along with some of the mahogany patterns he made some 70 years ago. Nice work!
cool stuff i've ben hunting for a core box plane for a while but the colectors keep the prices very high
Keith, I love you and your channel and have watched you in awe for years. HOWEVER, I used to own and operate a cabinet shop for 20 years and still do some professional level woodworking. IF I HAD AN EMPLOYEE TURN A PIECE OF WOOD WITH WOOD SCREWS (OR ANY OTHER METAL) IN THE WOOD WHILE TURNING I WOULD FIRE THEM INSTANTLY. Why. Because wood lathes, especially using dead wood centers vrs some type of chuck, are inherently dangerous. It is extremely easy to catch the tool on the wood and for the wood to erupt out of the lathe and into the turners face. For this reason most wood turners use face shields. Most professional turners have lost a few pieces over the years. It is inevitable. Wood isn't metal, you don't know the state of grain inside of a large piece until you start turning. That said, any piece of metal inside of a turning can easily catch the turning tool and will eject the work piece out of the lathe. Is there a safe way to turn this piece? Not really, because it isn't solid the way you are making your two halves. How would I have done this? I would have made the two blocks like you did, without the two index pins. I would have used a white glue (old type of Elmer's not the modern glues OR hide glue to glue the two blocks together with a layer of brown paper bag between the two blocks. Then I would have turned the cylinder. After it was turned, I would have drilled two holes for the pins before separating the two halves. The hole does not go through both pieces, but it does go over half way. Then using a wood chisel, I would separate the two halves splitting the turned piece on the paper spacer. Finally, I would clean up the mating surfaces and install wooden pins through the piece with holes drilled through it, and finally cut and file of the excess wood from the pins on the outside of the pattern. Would this have taken longer and required more skill? Absolutely. But it would be so much safer than what you did and I could never condone your technique in a professional shop where I was paying workmen's comp insurance. And a face shield is mandatory under OSHA. It is not a optional accessory especially for non-professional turners.
But he was doing it in HIS shop on HIS lathe, so it's really none ya bidness.
Keith, great content! Your content is reminiscent of my 4 years in HS.in the 60s where we were fortunate to have an excellent electrical, pattern, foundry and machine shop. First year was doing a round robin training in all the shops and then deciding on the one for your final 3 years. I chose the machine shop. That background was the best for me in my 50 + year career as a union IUOE. Local 18 heavy equipment mechanic/welder and everything in between and now enjoying a great defined benefit pension and healthcare plan. Your videos and the many others in this YT. content community are a great inspiration showing a highly needed career choice in this country. If one is not set on a college degree this is a fantastic and respected option. Thanks, Ed K. Oh.
That turned out to be a great step by step production. It looks like the cast piece will be a lot of fun to hack out of the casting, cheers Keith!
One thing I was taught was to always make asymmetrical registration pins so it was impossible to assemble incorrectly.
I made a jig to push on a seal and it use two bolts to hold it, the other two for stud bolts pull a ring to press in the seal. I lent it to a coworker to do a seal replacement he flipped it upside down and the bolt didn’t line up any more so he beat the snot out of it with a hammer a brought it back and said it didn’t work.
On a symmetrical part, it matters not.?.?
@@paulsilva3346 if the world was perfect it wouldn't matter, but it's far from perfect and asymmetrical pins are just good practice.
@@paulsilva3346 If you have the dowels placed exactly symmetrical it wouldn't matter. If one or the other was an 1/8" off, when you flipped it the wrong way they'd be misaligned by 1/4".
@@paulsilva3346 All I can say to that is that in real life, I'm not good enough on the lathe nor on the pin placement to make it perfectly symmetrical so I don't pretend I can and make them far enough off that even a twit can see it.
Kieth I bought a drill chart that you offered on your website. It came today and looks wonderful on my shop wall it was a birthday gift to myself. I look forward to using it for the rest of my life out in my shop!
A sheet of paper glued between the wood is a common way to temperately hold the 2 parts of a split pattern together. Make sure the glue doesn't saturate the paper when gluing. If done properly the paper will rip leaving a layer glued to each half of the pattern. You probably want to do a test with the glue and some scrap wood first to make sure the paper is strong enough to do the work but can still be split. Remember wet paper has little strength so you have to let it dry completely. Also, don't glue the dowels in until after you have split and sanded off the remaining paper. Thanks Keith!
I was thinking the same thing. I remembered that from mid '60s wood shop class.
That's how the base wood was attached to my fruit bowl for turning.
Very nice video thanks for sharing.
Using mahogany just adds to the historic feel to the restoration. In the end the pattern can be given to the Steam group for a display or to hold in reserve if needed in the future.
I can't be the only one who would much rather watch you make an old school wooden pattern than have it 3D printed... Nice work. I hope Clarke will show us his corebox making machine, sounds cool!
Its been a while since we've seen you do any woodworking; I really enjoyed this vid just as something different on the channel.
Never hurts to stop and assess the safety angle of an operation.
Enjoyed
I've been following you for years and this video is one of the best
Can't wait to see the machining on the castings.
Awesome video, Keith! It's amazing how much I have learned from watching just your channel!
Very nice job.
I enjoyed the woodworking content!
Thanks Keith....Always love your videos...!
THANK YOU...for sharing.
Nice to see you doing a little bit of woodworking, it sure is dusty though. 🙂
Keith, another great video. Casting interests me but I will live thru your jobs.
very interesting and informative, thank you
Dang! First time watching wood turning, and afraid I might get addicted to it. There’s only a limited number of hours in a day!
Hey Keith next time try glueing the halves together with a piece of paper in between .. after you are done turning you can separate the halves at the glue line with a chisel and tap with a mallet.
There used to be a company called LA Sleeve that would send you sleeve blanks or make you sleeve blanks. They were pretty reasonable from what I remember and they were turned iron or steel. Wait time was usually a couple weeks but they always delivered and they were great quality.
It’s going to be interesting how you cut all those square holes in the casting.
Yes ...would love to see the process to make the sleeve
Hey another cool project. Like the scraping, seeing the steps in different process's (way more intresting than tv) and the think about it It's just the better way to go decisions that are made on the way. very intresting Thanks
I've had good results from making expanded polystyrene plugs for investment casting. yes you need to make one for each item but no need for cores etc. plus you can incorporate much of the detail to, like all those holes etc.
Very interesting. Back in the 70's we went on a tour through the Powermatic factory in Mcminnville, Tm. Interesting srd tuff. Love your channel.
One way you can make the job easier is to run the pattern blanks through the table saw with the blade set at 45 degrees to take the corners off.
Amazing the echo in your wood shop compared to the metal shop - full of interesting stuff. Yes, Mahogany is beautiful wood to work with. Hot DOg, Keith. Those little hole markers do com in handy. Almost 100% perfect every time. Nice piece of work, Keith. Simple though it might be, it still requires some skills and planning.
Keith,. I completely agree that this mold is much easier and quicker to do than 3D print because it is so simple. You need at least 2 castings and 1 for practice. Why not make 3 molds so they can ram them up all at once rather than using 3 different flasks?
like watching chips being made be they metal or wood.
Back in the '60s LA City Schools used to teach wood working.
One of my projects was turning a fruit bowl out of Monkeypod. Been a long time since then.....
Back in the 60's schools were intended to teach useful subjects. Now it is spanish and mexican history and how to riot.
That's VERY light colored mahogany Keith! Looks more like Lauan?
great show there Keith. i went with 3D resin for my small parts but yah wood is great.
Looking good, one thing you may want to look at in the future is leaving yourself enough room to put some radial draft on the ends. That helps with removing the patterns from the mold. You can do it pretty easily with some hand files. You don't have a terribly tall vertical section there where the pattern meets the core print. And small vertical sections like that are more prone to tear up in the molding process.
Thanks Keith, was wondering how the stoker was going.
Amazing to me how many “Experts” there are to correct Mr. Rucker yet some how he has made this far with all of his fingers, both hands and all other body parts. Wow, just incredible how many anonymous experts there are out there that don’t have their own channel.
If you make the same mistake long enough you will use up your luck. We must respect machinery.
Toby W I don’t disagree with you in principle however it is through risk taking and error that mankind has advanced so much there is no advancement without risk, respectfully.
Very nicely done. Have you done a video on using spring calipers? Might be a nice touch to add to the video collection it's really a lost art.
Ya gotta hold onto them correctly or you have flying parts.
At 17:28, you suspected that "My lathe tools needed sharpening regardless". It's been my experience that when I wonder if they could stand sharpening, they've needed it for some time.
I remember hearing about a cast iron tube vender down in Texas from Abom79.
Is your table saw and jointer set up? Sawing the corners off your blank into an octagon might have sped up the turning. And a quick trip across the jointer on the mating faces would have been appropriate.
Now to get a vid from Windy Hill showing what they do to continue the proces
Mahogany!! Keith, you're breaking my heart!!
liners should be spun cast, my foundry used to make these when i was in charge on of a REME army camp
Keith, instead of screwing the halves together, could you have used the trick of placing a sheet of kraft paper between the halves and gluing them together? That give a weak but reliable joint that can easily be separated after turning, and wouldn't have endangered your gouge.
They use mahogany in Honduras for fence posts.
Thanks Keith good video nice too see progress for the stoker engine ! Now over to Clarke's for the second part! And waiting on Adam also maybe a SNS SOON!!
I'm wondering about the part Adam was going to repair. Last time I saw it was several weeks ago ... maybe longer ... in the background of one of his SNS sitting outside getting rusty.
@@tsmartin.... These videos are not current. Chances are this project is well past this video.
@@tsmartin Yes that;s how I knew he was collaborating with Keith i saw it there too you know he is a job shop so he just mite be real busy!!
Very true, but the comment regarding the length of the core print, is, I believe, valid. Imagine the degree of flotation of liquid iron, given the relative weights of the sand core VS iron.
Keith;
Why not purchase a piece of heavy wall black iron pipe at your local builder supply store? It is used all the time for sewer work and you might have even been able to get an off-cut for a discount. Appreciate the work process of pattern making and pouring the mold (hope to see Clark at Windy Hill have a video on this). Hopefully will have a chance to see you again at this year's Bar Z bash if it comes off.
Ron
Beautiful resourcefulness, but it's a pretty sharp indictment of our materials industry that you found it worthwhile to turn foundry patterns out of mahogany because nobody with the appropriate stock would make two cuts with a bandsaw for a fair price.
In lockdown, deprived of my gym and with home exercise equipment shortages everywhere, I had some makeshift dumbbells cut to length from 2" steel rods by this kind of supplier. It was remarkably expensive.
Windy Hill to the Rescue !!
I love mcmastercarr for fasteners and so much more. But when it comes to raw stock they tend to be 75% more than the local steel yard.
When I was an apprentice c. 60 yrs ago. Pattern Makers had special rulers to allow for shrinkage. From memory this was some 12% but all our casting were aluminium alloy or magnesium.
1/8 in 12 as I recall.
Bill Spear Yes that sounds more like it😁
Hiya Keith
Keith,
Thank you for showing how easy it can be to make this type of pattern. Do you add the screw holes for removing the pattern halves from the mold, or is it easier for the Foundryman (Clarke) to add them?
I'm looking forward to watching you machine the castings when you get them. That ought to be a very interesting series of videos. Will you have Clarke pour any "spares," just in case?
You should remove the tool guide when sanding- you almost broke your hand when you put the sandpaper on top
A bit of exaggerated comment there 🇩🇰
Rookie question: Since cast iron stock/pipe of the correct size is so difficult/expensive to source, would it be possible to use some alloy of steel instead while maintaining the properties needed?
It is the wearing surface on the inside of the cylinder that is needed to be cast iron.
When you said the mating surfaces had to be flat and smooth, I wondered why you didn't scrape them in with the BIAX and blue them up on your surface plate. What kind of a machinist are you anyway? Oh, wait, you also work with wood. Never mind. ;^D) Hope to see you at the Bar-Z, if there is one this year. Jon
Did you try an automotive machine shop for cylinder sleeves for tractors, trucks, and etc.
I wish I can see them pour the cast-iron into the mold What happened to the furnace you made a while back
I was surprised you didn't turn that in the metal lathe but I guess the tolerances aren't that close.
I was taught to NEVER put screws into a turning... using a paper separator (glued) works so that you can split it when you need to...
Absolutely ! I use a sheet of newsprint.
Brown paper bag. Wait! Do they still have those?
@@ronaldhorne5106 News print is the standard, I don't think you want to use paper that is too hard/strong.
Was wondering how the spray welding turned out on the base? I was thinking there might be some hard spots.
Have you tried Metal supermarkets? They specialize in small orders of any metal
I think Mr. Clarke Easterling at windy hill, maybe can help with cast iron parts.
pretty sure Clark is already in the loop on this one.
25:30
22:39: I'm not a "Safety Nazi" but this is EXTREMELY dangerous at the risk of arm amputation if your hand gets pulled between the tool rest and workpiece. I've had the sandpaper catch before and I was cringing just watching this part.
It was as terrifying as watching him make the gantry crane!
Keith,
What do you plan to use to make the cast iron piston rings? Do you have material available or do you need to have additional cast iron cylinders cast at a smaller
diameter?
And maybe Kieth has some more fire ants to kill. Will the brake rotors make the proper grey iron casting for your sleeves?
Err- Clarke’s fire ants. You are trying to make the stoker engine go with parts made to stop. Just another one of your amazing skills. . .
As for a guy who collects tools like Imelda Marcos collected shoes I was a bit disappointed when you failed to bring out the pattern makers rulers to demonstrate how to make an accurate pattern. The only time I heard the term shrinkage was relating to casting quality and not dimension. I know the castings are just a substitute for a convenient metal supply however it is a critical part of pattern making. Also there is never an excuse to put your hand in between the rest and the rotating workpiece. What were you thinking?
I have never used a wood lathe, but when i saw that, I cringed....
You answered your own question. The casting is just to make material to be machined. There is no need to factor in shrinkage.
@@xenonram Just to let you know If you want to cast something say a foot long out of cast iron you need to make the pattern longer than a foot even if you don't want to machine it. It depends on thickness but a rule of thumb is 1% for grey iron, 2% for steel. However shrinkage in casting can also refer to thick and thin sections of a casting that are joined together. Because the thick section cools more slowly when it does it will try to pull material away from the thin and depending on how much difference there is between the two it can leave holes and a sponge like cross section. Well that is the 30 second explanation for you it is a trade in itself and there is a whole lot more to it.
I've never used a metal lathe, but I wondered whether or not you could have turned the pattern on one instead of the wood lathe you used. It seems that would give more accuracy on the final dimensions since you could make micrometer adjustments that would be consistent all along the length. is that right?
Wood can be turned on a metal lathe but it is messy with the wood chips and dust.
@@JorgTheElder I wasn't suggesting that he make the pattern out of metal. I am wondering if it is possible (or feasible) to make the wooden pattern on metal lathe which tends to have so much better precision control.
Yes you can do so, but cleanup can be a problem; the thing to have is a patternmaker's wood lathe, which is equipped with a carriage, cross slide and compound rest, yes, I have one!
Have you tried LA sleeve co to see if they have something close
It looks like the grain on the mahogany was fine enough that it wasn't necessary to use filler and paint to make the pattern smoother to facilitate release from the sand casting. That plus the cylindrical shape of the pattern provides natural draft to the pattern to further facilitate release.
Still, draft must also be provided on the end surfaces.
@@biggreasies537 I noted that he had applied a slight radius to the ends to provide that draft.
I did not see that comment about end radius. I note his comment about giving it a coat of shellac, that was the custom back in the day, but it necessitates having to sand and re coat several times because it raises the gran and roughens the surfaces, these days, a coat of brushing lacquer made for pattern work is the custom, and some foundries using a dry sand molding systems further coat with a special coating to prevent sticking, this coating as I have seen it is aluminum colored and never seems entirely dry.
Wondering if the guy at Windy Hill can produce the proper quality for a ductile iron sleeve. from his videos, it appears he just uses old brake rotors. Most engine sleeves use a special formula of cast with certain carbon and magnesium content,
nice turning work keith but the core prints are rather stubby might have trouble supporting the core
I'm a little surprised you didn't 45 the corners off...
suprised you didn't use a paper glue joint to hold the halves together and install the pins after turning and knocking the halves apart
How's the Vulcan 0-4-0t?
You should see if a ductile iron water pipe would work.
Shouldn't there be a mold made for the center core? Casting one big hunk and milling the center bore seems to be a LOT of extra work.
Still not using your beautiful oil fired furnace? I really want to build one like yours but have not seen you use it. Is there a problem with it?
Since the temperatures here in south Georgia have been in the high 80s and low 90s, I do not think that there is much use for a heating appliance until next December.
@@samb3706 was talking about melting the cast iron in it. And poring it himself insted of sending it out.
Mike Hegdahl, was he going to be able to get hot enough to melt cast iron with his furnace? I thought it was more for melting aluminum or brass. It would probably be hot enough to warm the shop up though! Lol
@@Hoaxer51 his intention was to use it outside and had both oil, or diesel fule and propain to get to 3000 degrees which is hot enough to forge cast iron. But have not seen a video of it in use yet. Very nice build and a heck of a lot of good info and a very nice build!
@@Hoaxer51 Clarke Easterling is very good at casting these type parts and does it for a living. Keith has other things to do besides experiment cast iron casting.
My comment is that the core prints are too short to properly support the core against floating upwards when the metal is poured, which would result in the casting being non concentric; I would make them at least an inch long or longer and they should have a generous draft angle on them.
I thought the same , but he didn't specify it would be green sand so it might be a hard mold like resin bonded or co2 sand. Ideally it would be cast on end if the molding box has a cutout for a joint line down sprue, it self feeds that way and any incusions that are pushed to the top can just be cut off the end. I was surprised the foundry wouldn't have a stock core close enough in size that he could have sized his prints to instead of needing a core box made.
The foundries that I have dealt with do have stock cores for nearly any size of straight core.
Please give economics of the casting.
What?? No getting ballsey and casting the ports in as well? If you did that boring and turning and facing to the correct length and position would be all you would need to do.😎
It'll need provision to screw a couple of 8/10 gauge woodscrews in it...
So he can rap it to get it out of the cope & drag...🇬🇧👍
The foundry will do that for small patterns, for quite large ones, the patternmaker will install rapping plates with tapped holes.
Keith do you have a local pattern shop to take this video to so they can point out all your errors!
Do you feel better now..?
@@paulcopeland9035 You have missed the point Keith's pattern making video are not helpful for people trying to make foundry patterns.( 50 Th. Years in the trade ) Keith's videos on scraping are very good he has taken the time to learn the craft form this piers. This pattern making videos are way off the mark! As a teaching aid.
Cullen I see your channel has no content only negative remarks. It's ashamed that a Mr.F....g PERFECT person as your self doesn't produce videos to show the world all your self proclaimed knowledge!
Could you use cast iron sewer pipe as rough stock?
Possibly, but depends on OD & ID and type of iron(grey or wrought).
The poor material used for cast iron SEWER Pipe is not a high enough quality for construction of pistons and cylinders. Containing air bubbles, and other impurities..
Job would end up crappy🤣
A friend of mine when he casts bronze adds 3% to the mold size to account for shrinkage when Cooling. Is there no need to do this for cast iron?
Yes, it is 1/8 per foot. He has way over that for trying to exclude hard spots, etc out of the part area.
@@royreynolds108 depends upon if it's gray iron or ductile iron for the shrink factor, but yes that's a good rule of thumb. Nice thing is he already had it oversized.
@@royreynolds108 Ok, at 4:50 he mentions that, obviously I missed that part getting a fresh cupajoe...
Shrink rules are made in shrink values expressed in inches per foot, for iron, 1/8" for most work, and .1" for cylinders, for most small patterns, no allowance is necessary.
@@biggreasies537 depending on what sort of core they use, diameter shrink may not be the same. Sometimes the overall length will shrink to account for the fact that it can't shrink the same amount around the core. Centerline shrink factors are a good general rule, but in actual practice tend to be geometry dependent.
How is the sand core supported?
Wouldn't it be almost as easy to simply start with a block of cast iron and turn that down? Or is that more difficult/more expensive?
Square corners and lots more material to remove.
In coal fired steam engines was Anthracite (hard coal) preferred over Bituminous (soft coal) by large rail companies?
Depends on the company. In the UK the Great Western Railway insisted that their locos would only steam well on welsh steam coal. Lancashire and Yorkshire used local steam coal from the northern pits in their locos (this was still not hard coal) . However the radiant brick arch in the firebox, designed I believe by Matthew Kirtly of the Midland railway, meant that anthracite was not necessary (as it was in early locos) because the arch provided a secondary combustion to use the unburnt volatiles in the combustion products before they left the firebox thus increasing the heat recovered.
Anthracite burns slower than bituminous and needs a larger grate for the fire. The camelbacks with the Wooten fireboxes burned anthracite.
@@mikewoods4177 Your comments remind me of an issue of the English version of TOP GEAR , where Jeremy Clarkson feeds coal to the boiler of a steam engine as it was racing from the Southern Part of England to the northern part of that island. Funny as hell!
I'm REAL surprised that you weren't able to find a 'blank' cylinder liner from an internal combustion gas engine that was suitable
I previously mentioned that he should contact LA Sleeve, or otther company that makes cast-iron sleeves for just this pupose. www.lasleeve.com/tech/custom-sleeves
Rule #13 of machining: ‘Nothing easy is cheap, and NOTHING cheap is easy.’ -Willard’s Laws of Machining
I have always wondered why wood lathes don't have simpler saddle arrangement like metal lathes do to make turning a long shaft type easier and more precise.
Special patternmaker wood lathes have exactly what you describe. Very handy!
@@thomasutley Ok, I've never seen one of those.
They do make such lathes, called patternmaker's wood lathes, with carriage, cross slides and compound rest.
@CastingIron Engines I used to do that as well before I got the patternmaker's wood lathe.
If you want some insight on the printers, please reach out. I thought you were going to say 3 HOURS for that part. It's about all it should take.
3 hours!?!? No way. Maybe with 5% fill, but this would require a much higher fill to be sturdy enough to hold up to packing the sand. At 100% fill, it would take 10s of hours. So a high enough fill would be close to a 15 hour print. Add in CAD, a couple hours to finish it to get it smooth, and possible failed prints, you're talking a couple/few days. Even with a 3d printing tech besides filament, that produces a better finish, it would take FAR longer than a wood pattern. A more intricate pattern would be a candidate for 3d printing, but a couple one like this isn't worth the time.
@@xenonram You're simply wrong. The cylinder doesn't have to be solid to be cast does it? Just thick enough that there's enough to machine off. So I stand by my assertion that on my delta at 120mm/s to print a cast-able cylinder for that part it would take about 3 hours.