I drive Scania in EU for about 6 years by now, and besides the exhaust's sound....yeah, I happen to notice the Scania in the engine sound and the gear shifting ;) You're in a real treat there
@@MichaelOlden You're welcome! At the moment I have a 2 year old one (450hp, 12 gear), and got it with 165km in it. During this time, the only problem I had powertrain wise were faulty injectors (4 out of 6 got changed due giving the fuel to the engine on too high pressure). Till around 10-12 tons it barely feels the load on hills, after that starts to fight, but she does the job.
The base warranty is actually a standard warranty for the truck. The accolades of this engine are reverberating in our sister company Scania - the Super 13 is wining awards for MPG and power in other countries. The main difference is that we use the 12V vs 24V system, and other market use a transmission brake verse the engine brake. All good and all awesome. The removal to the EGR and Variable geometry turbo, the planetary transmission with electronic clutch (vs pneumatic that comes with air build up time and warnings), and for those who need it - the PTO will come from the factory to instead of a 1 year warrant. Your get at least two and it is part of ANY transmission warranty. WOW! BTW did I mention that the SCR technology only uses 10% more DEF - we use a dual dose SCR focused system and allow the engine to be an engine. IE. produce power verse choking a bit on its own waste.
@MichaelOlden While we all know Navistar was incapable of building an engine without help from other companies, I hope this engine does well for the drivers and owner operators that may drive or own it. I love that they’ve gotten rid of the EGR, DOC, and the increased DEF is a non issue. I have had trucks with electronic clutches and pneumatic clutches, and I prefer the pneumatic clutches due to their reliability, clutch engagement power, lower maintenance, and the fact that they’re easier to maneuver while backing up. I’ve never had a pneumatic clutch “run out of air” like International claims while backing up, so that point is completely irrelevant. It will be interesting to see how this powertrain does in the real world because we all know the testing isn’t done with the same factors drivers face on a daily basis.
Please test the unit in the West Coast we have mountains and curves. US routes 101, 299, i-5, i-80, and i-10 CA-AZ, have a driver pushing it on the mountains and curves 80,000lbs.
Still checking for feedback, but I am sure that there are large national fleets that are currently involved in that exact testing. Keep watching for more reports!
It was more likely the microphone and editing. If the I feel the sound needs a bump for clarity it can get wonky. It is a clean environment and low noise. As it was part of a group they were using hand radios that sometimes kicked up an airy noise too. When you get a minute to test drive one, give me a heads up on that experience!
@@MichaelOlden I'd love to test drive that new Powertrain! I'm, as many are very excited to see a new exhaust system works in the US of A market. European designs are always great until they come to the USA and have to deal with the variant of temperatures that we deal with here.
@@dfireballwow You think there is no variant in temperatures in Europe from the Arctic North in Winter to the Mediterranean South in Summer? We may not get the humidity of South Eastern US States though.
I received the following "Currently the transmission mounted retarder for the T14 is not going to be made available in the International chassis. Navistar will continue to explore what opportunities may exist for this solution in the North American market." I guess we'll have to wait until demand for the system increases enough for them to add in the future.
@MichaelOlden Thanks for your time and efforts, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Retarders are popular in Europe for two reasons: first, some European engine manufacturers, Scania being one, will not approve the fitment of a Jake or similar and secondly the Euro emissions rules include noise not just exhaust this effectively has meant engine brakes, when fitted, are nowhere near as effective as a Jake. That said, a Jake comes nowhere near to a retarder.
Nothing like going up and down hilly roads at higher speeds using the retarder and not touching the brakes. The truck is in full control. If I was speccing out an alternative truck, then I would be fitting this. Love using the hydraulic retarder...
Well - great question. The answer is a turbo engine works well at the elevation referenced. I would suggest a review of the load. There is a 400 hp with 1850 lb ft torque that would be my fleet spec. As an owner operator, you are more likely to go to the highest HP with the 1850 torque.
I think this truck would do great. In the north of Spain, all you can see is Scania trucks in those small and crazy roads of the Pyrenees mountains. I saw this summer various Scania non v8 pulling hard in a crazy steep and narrow 1 lane road,it was climbing at a very good pace with 35ºC (95º F) close to 2000 meters(6,500 ft). The proportion of Scania trucks in this area is very noticeable. That engine made 600 HP here in the top version. Spain is very hilly,you need more than 500 HP to not be at 30 mph on the highway in the mountains. Modern trucks here can go 40-45 when full loaded in those situations to not be a hazard for the speed differential.
Yes. They have started production on the LT's. The S13/T14 powertrain was introduced earlier this year with production set to begin this month (July). The power train has been VERY successful in our sister manufacturer Scania and has yielded better than expected fuel economy. The clean sheet technology Eliminated the EGR - so it just produces power Eliminated Active Regeneration - no more downtime lost to cleaning cycles. Eliminated Fuel Consumption - this system does not use diesel ingestion to increase heat.
Yes the powertrain is the results of five years and a billion dollar investment from Traton. The Volkswagen AG holdings of M A N, Scania, VW Truck and Bus, and Navistar. It first came to Market in the Scania as the Super 13 and the Opticruise is referenced as the T14 transmission in the U.S. The is roughly 90% of the components in the U.S. as we are 12 volt and do not utilize the transmission retarder. We are seeing incredible fuel efficiency, MPG, and true appreciated of and engine without required active regenerations due to the removal of the EGR and use of SCR technology to treat engine NOX. Thanks for the Comment!!!
With the backlog of tractors it is hard to say . But I can share that many will start receiving trucks intended for demonstration. I.e. runs a couple of weeks with certain fleets then available for end user delivery. Would you like to receive a price on that?
@@MichaelOlden I tried to get a quote online but never heared back... My guess that truck price will be close to 200k brand new... The power train looks very promising, but I hope that international is using better materials and better quality control when manufacturing the engine bcuz their A26 engine premature failures were due to lousy manufacturing of some engine parts. Lastly what mpg did this truck achieve when MT and loaded??
I placed an order for a 2025 LT model with S13/T14 drive tran back in June, for the proformance International LT engine rating of 515HP, my quote was 197,512... Alot of LT's with A26 averaged 8-9mpg with eaton edurant tranny, im hoping this S13 averages around upper 8's to mid 9.5 mpg.. I deliver to grocery stores produce an drive back empty.. 9 mpg is definitely doable
Price includes F.E.T also truck is fully loaded with Frig, shore power.. Its probably less then 197k i had dealer remove Bendix wingman fusion from truck build.. Color of truck is custom, light blue
Apologies for the delay. Yes there will be an increase in the consumption of DEF. We expect the increase to be less than 10 percent over current company usage. 3.3 to 4.4 percent for your referenced use provided.
The pricing point varies based on the total option content. There are many different configuration and selections which will affect your pricing. shoot me your email so that I can provide the basic fleet spec. But it would be best to work together to create a tractor the REALLY is your own. My email is molden@lee-smith.com
I'm not knocking the product, your job skills or abilities. International trained you how to drive that truck and transmission. Your experience and safety policies have you driving it like a 40 year veteran. Here's my challenge to both you and International. Put that engine and transmission in a dump truck. Imagine you're on the job and you have as many rounds as possible to make of hauling out of a job site, to a dump site. Get back to get loaded as fast as possible. Loose dirt. Soft soil. Wet, spongey ground. Clay. Sand. Try the truck in all these terrains, loaded and unloaded. For at least 200,000 miles. You won't always have equipment to pull or push you out. You'll have to give it the beans and make it get itself out some times. As I said earlier, I'm not doubting the technology, your skills or abilities. But in the real world applications like dump trucks, they're often driven like they're stolen. I understand manufacturers can void warranties and refuse service if operation goes against recommended driving techniques. Dump trucks use the same techniques as road trucks and then some. Lots of short trips. Way more stop and go experiences. Way more shifting events needed. Higher transmission Temps should be expected. Build the trucks and transmissions to take the abuse. Limit those transmissions to off road capable dumptrucks. Then come and give us the video. The average construction dump truck driver is holding the foot to the floor and trying to take a bite in between bouncing out of the seat. The butt massage experience you had in this video should only be expected by 40 plus year veterans and your test track, limited by safety policies and testing parameters. Build it to not break.
A very well written and in depth search for a truck engine that can make it happen. This engine is going into the HX Severe Service Model for Navistar International. One of the significant reasons for the is that the transmission has the same effective low as an 18 speed Lo Lo transmission. Speaking to the environment use, the US is one of the few parts of the world that has a tremendous warranty responsibility pushed to the factories. And there are ways that an engine can be move from warrantable to non warrantable. The issue being the servicing records, the improper use evaluation between sales and the client (i.e. 120000 GCWR use where the representative focused on 80000 GCWR), and I am sure there is more following use verse abuse. I appreciate the 'driven like its stolen' real world use reference. Which is why the electronic clutching will keep pace with the demands of the foot as the engine and transmission are clean sheet technologies BUILT to hyper communication and make use of the recognized axle load, predictive cruise, and selected performance mode to minimize aggressive foot throttling. The quality of the field use also in off road applications is set to 'rock out of a hole' when a hole is 'discovered' in use. Are all things bullet proof - well they have been severely tested and are in use today. The mileage is not yet a 200,000 - but we are getting closer to that mar each day. I will gladly forward your thoughts to my point of contacts within sales engineering and testing to allow their feedback as well. This is not a design created solely by Navistar. With your knowledge I am assured you are familiar with Scania and M A N. Also a part of the Traton family name and instrumental in this creation. As was the final sister company Volkswagen Commercial and Bus. This powertrain is a world wide component with 90% match of it assembly.
@MichaelOlden I'm currently driving a 2018 Volvo VHD quint dumptruck. It has the 12 speed automatic transmission. The truck is set up with a pointless hook for towing. The spots I see low performance from this machine is: When the tires start sinking, the transmission has to be manually put in first gear. In Auto mode, the transmission goes to 3rd gear by default. There's also a delay in engagement from park to forward, and forward to reverse. This slight delay, combined with the requirement of manually putting the transmission in manual adds up painstaking seconds when you're being pushed or pulled from a stuck situation. The result is the transmission gets confused with the sudden electronic demands. That's the best way I can describe it. It locks up and will kill the engine at the slightest touch of throttle. This "stubborn streak" from the transmission that happens, is followed by the boss getting upset. They have to get another piece of equipment to pull the truck out. It won't help itself out. Once the truck is out, it sits for another minute, and everything engages and shifts as it should. It's a tough transmission. The truck has just over 150,000 miles. It pulls a tag trailer with a D6K LGP without problem. It's the off road use that needs the focus. It's not uncommon to do quick direction changes, just to keep the truck moving in certain terrain. Have the engineers set up a quint dump truck with this engine transmission combo in your video. I'd be really interested in shoving better results under the Boss's nose to look at. A good truck can make more money. Bottom line.
In short - there can be many adjustment to meet your requirements. That said the most recent quote for a White in color tractor is : Sale Price without FET 172,471.19 FET 18,713.24 Sale Price Per Vehicle 191,184.43 How many can I get you???😄
@@Sloba1992 lol. Not it's not. Scania engine. This isn't a trashinational. Completely different tuck. Your KW peterbilts and Volvos are $230k+. This truck will have better fuel economy and I think will be pretty reliable. I might lease one because they're offering some great incentives and uptime guarantees, from what I hear.
I drive Scania in EU for about 6 years by now, and besides the exhaust's sound....yeah, I happen to notice the Scania in the engine sound and the gear shifting ;)
You're in a real treat there
Thanks you for sharing the positives about your experience with the Scania!!
@@MichaelOlden You're welcome!
At the moment I have a 2 year old one (450hp, 12 gear), and got it with 165km in it. During this time, the only problem I had powertrain wise were faulty injectors (4 out of 6 got changed due giving the fuel to the engine on too high pressure). Till around 10-12 tons it barely feels the load on hills, after that starts to fight, but she does the job.
Im looking forward to this Scania powertrain!
You and me both!
scania is top brand in the world.. us market gonna like what scania can offer..
Any idea what the warranty is going to look like ? I assume it's going to be practically bulletproof I hope considering the MaxForce debacle.
The base warranty is actually a standard warranty for the truck. The accolades of this engine are reverberating in our sister company Scania - the Super 13 is wining awards for MPG and power in other countries. The main difference is that we use the 12V vs 24V system, and other market use a transmission brake verse the engine brake.
All good and all awesome.
The removal to the EGR and Variable geometry turbo, the planetary transmission with electronic clutch (vs pneumatic that comes with air build up time and warnings), and for those who need it - the PTO will come from the factory to instead of a 1 year warrant. Your get at least two and it is part of ANY transmission warranty. WOW!
BTW did I mention that the SCR technology only uses 10% more DEF - we use a dual dose SCR focused system and allow the engine to be an engine. IE. produce power verse choking a bit on its own waste.
@MichaelOlden While we all know Navistar was incapable of building an engine without help from other companies, I hope this engine does well for the drivers and owner operators that may drive or own it. I love that they’ve gotten rid of the EGR, DOC, and the increased DEF is a non issue.
I have had trucks with electronic clutches and pneumatic clutches, and I prefer the pneumatic clutches due to their reliability, clutch engagement power, lower maintenance, and the fact that they’re easier to maneuver while backing up. I’ve never had a pneumatic clutch “run out of air” like International claims while backing up, so that point is completely irrelevant. It will be interesting to see how this powertrain does in the real world because we all know the testing isn’t done with the same factors drivers face on a daily basis.
Finally a modern diesel that’s sounds good
@@nds2969 thank you for your support!!
Please test the unit in the West Coast we have mountains and curves. US routes 101, 299, i-5, i-80, and i-10 CA-AZ, have a driver pushing it on the mountains and curves 80,000lbs.
I will check with my contacts at international for a response to this inquiry.
Still checking for feedback, but I am sure that there are large national fleets that are currently involved in that exact testing. Keep watching for more reports!
Handle that piss easy. NZ ones have been doing at least 50,000 kg (110,000 lbs) on this Power train for the last couple of years.
No need too. It comes from Scandinavia. Mountains, polar winters and double freight weight. And the best in mpg
Did you guys have the windows down while driving? Seemed really nosey to me.
It was more likely the microphone and editing. If the I feel the sound needs a bump for clarity it can get wonky. It is a clean environment and low noise. As it was part of a group they were using hand radios that sometimes kicked up an airy noise too. When you get a minute to test drive one, give me a heads up on that experience!
@@MichaelOlden I'd love to test drive that new Powertrain! I'm, as many are very excited to see a new exhaust system works in the US of A market. European designs are always great until they come to the USA and have to deal with the variant of temperatures that we deal with here.
@@dfireballwow You think there is no variant in temperatures in Europe from the Arctic North in Winter to the Mediterranean South in Summer? We may not get the humidity of South Eastern US States though.
Is International going to make the hydraulic retarder available on this gearbox, as it is in Europe on Scania and MAN?
I have no idea how this question was not populating.
I am checking to find a best answer.
I wIll give you the feedback soon - I Hope.
I received the following "Currently the transmission mounted retarder for the T14 is not going to be made available in the International chassis. Navistar will continue to explore what opportunities may exist for this solution in the North American market."
I guess we'll have to wait until demand for the system increases enough for them to add in the future.
@MichaelOlden Thanks for your time and efforts, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Retarders are popular in Europe for two reasons: first, some European engine manufacturers, Scania being one, will not approve the fitment of a Jake or similar and secondly the Euro emissions rules include noise not just exhaust this effectively has meant engine brakes, when fitted, are nowhere near as effective as a Jake. That said, a Jake comes nowhere near to a retarder.
Nothing like going up and down hilly roads at higher speeds using the retarder and not touching the brakes. The truck is in full control.
If I was speccing out an alternative truck, then I would be fitting this.
Love using the hydraulic retarder...
@@MichaelTucker Stateside has not incorporated that feature just yet, I look forward to its addition when it comes state side.
What is best for Colorado Rocky Mountains with altitudes greater than 13,000 ft on highway in hot weather?
Well - great question. The answer is a turbo engine works well at the elevation referenced. I would suggest a review of the load. There is a 400 hp with 1850 lb ft torque that would be my fleet spec. As an owner operator, you are more likely to go to the highest HP with the 1850 torque.
I think this truck would do great. In the north of Spain, all you can see is Scania trucks in those small and crazy roads of the Pyrenees mountains. I saw this summer various Scania non v8 pulling hard in a crazy steep and narrow 1 lane road,it was climbing at a very good pace with 35ºC (95º F) close to 2000 meters(6,500 ft). The proportion of Scania trucks in this area is very noticeable. That engine made 600 HP here in the top version.
Spain is very hilly,you need more than 500 HP to not be at 30 mph on the highway in the mountains. Modern trucks here can go 40-45 when full loaded in those situations to not be a hazard for the speed differential.
@@josemorenoporras7506 Well stated. Our altitudes go up to 14,000ft / 4267 meters above sea level.
But has the ride gotten any better . And will it hold 120 psi
Yes it will, and the MPG and driver satisfaction reviews have been strong!
Have they started production on the updated LT?
Yes. They have started production on the LT's. The S13/T14 powertrain was introduced earlier this year with production set to begin this month (July). The power train has been VERY successful in our sister manufacturer Scania and has yielded better than expected fuel economy.
The clean sheet technology
Eliminated the EGR - so it just produces power
Eliminated Active Regeneration - no more downtime lost to cleaning cycles.
Eliminated Fuel Consumption - this system does not use diesel ingestion to increase heat.
Love Scania
Traton not so much...
It's a Scania developed engine...
Transmission is the latest iteration of Scanias "OptiCruise"
Yes the powertrain is the results of five years and a billion dollar investment from Traton. The Volkswagen AG holdings of M A N, Scania, VW Truck and Bus, and Navistar. It first came to Market in the Scania as the Super 13 and the Opticruise is referenced as the T14 transmission in the U.S.
The is roughly 90% of the components in the U.S. as we are 12 volt and do not utilize the transmission retarder.
We are seeing incredible fuel efficiency, MPG, and true appreciated of and engine without required active regenerations due to the removal of the EGR and use of SCR technology to treat engine NOX.
Thanks for the Comment!!!
When is it going to be available for sale @ dealerships??
With the backlog of tractors it is hard to say . But I can share that many will start receiving trucks intended for demonstration. I.e. runs a couple of weeks with certain fleets then available for end user delivery.
Would you like to receive a price on that?
@@MichaelOlden I tried to get a quote online but never heared back... My guess that truck price will be close to 200k brand new... The power train looks very promising, but I hope that international is using better materials and better quality control when manufacturing the engine bcuz their A26 engine premature failures were due to lousy manufacturing of some engine parts. Lastly what mpg did this truck achieve when MT and loaded??
@@omarh4694 I may not have received the email request, Please send to molden@lee-smith.com
I placed an order for a 2025 LT model with S13/T14 drive tran back in June, for the proformance International LT engine rating of 515HP, my quote was 197,512... Alot of LT's with A26 averaged 8-9mpg with eaton edurant tranny, im hoping this S13 averages around upper 8's to mid 9.5 mpg.. I deliver to grocery stores produce an drive back empty.. 9 mpg is definitely doable
Price includes F.E.T also truck is fully loaded with Frig, shore power.. Its probably less then 197k i had dealer remove Bendix wingman fusion from truck build.. Color of truck is custom, light blue
Will DEF consumption be increased at all? Or will it still be 3-4% of fuel consumption?
Apologies for the delay. Yes there will be an increase in the consumption of DEF. We expect the increase to be less than 10 percent over current company usage. 3.3 to 4.4 percent for your referenced use provided.
Wats the max gross weight this engine can pull
The US roads focus on the Federal Bridge law of 12 front 34 tandem and 34 rear trailer.
What is your application? and pull need?
@@MichaelOlden heavy haul,gross weight 120k lbs
@@Asmr-jn3soyou can pull 120k lb gross weight easy with that engine, you just need to get higher gear ratio on drive axles .
Kati parxa sir and downplayment 2025 model in Washington DC
The pricing point varies based on the total option content. There are many different configuration and selections which will affect your pricing. shoot me your email so that I can provide the basic fleet spec. But it would be best to work together to create a tractor the REALLY is your own. My email is molden@lee-smith.com
I'm not knocking the product, your job skills or abilities. International trained you how to drive that truck and transmission. Your experience and safety policies have you driving it like a 40 year veteran. Here's my challenge to both you and International. Put that engine and transmission in a dump truck. Imagine you're on the job and you have as many rounds as possible to make of hauling out of a job site, to a dump site. Get back to get loaded as fast as possible. Loose dirt. Soft soil. Wet, spongey ground. Clay. Sand. Try the truck in all these terrains, loaded and unloaded. For at least 200,000 miles. You won't always have equipment to pull or push you out. You'll have to give it the beans and make it get itself out some times.
As I said earlier, I'm not doubting the technology, your skills or abilities. But in the real world applications like dump trucks, they're often driven like they're stolen. I understand manufacturers can void warranties and refuse service if operation goes against recommended driving techniques. Dump trucks use the same techniques as road trucks and then some. Lots of short trips. Way more stop and go experiences. Way more shifting events needed. Higher transmission Temps should be expected. Build the trucks and transmissions to take the abuse. Limit those transmissions to off road capable dumptrucks. Then come and give us the video. The average construction dump truck driver is holding the foot to the floor and trying to take a bite in between bouncing out of the seat. The butt massage experience you had in this video should only be expected by 40 plus year veterans and your test track, limited by safety policies and testing parameters. Build it to not break.
A very well written and in depth search for a truck engine that can make it happen. This engine is going into the HX Severe Service Model for Navistar International. One of the significant reasons for the is that the transmission has the same effective low as an 18 speed Lo Lo transmission.
Speaking to the environment use, the US is one of the few parts of the world that has a tremendous warranty responsibility pushed to the factories. And there are ways that an engine can be move from warrantable to non warrantable. The issue being the servicing records, the improper use evaluation between sales and the client (i.e. 120000 GCWR use where the representative focused on 80000 GCWR), and I am sure there is more following use verse abuse.
I appreciate the 'driven like its stolen' real world use reference. Which is why the electronic clutching will keep pace with the demands of the foot as the engine and transmission are clean sheet technologies BUILT to hyper communication and make use of the recognized axle load, predictive cruise, and selected performance mode to minimize aggressive foot throttling. The quality of the field use also in off road applications is set to 'rock out of a hole' when a hole is 'discovered' in use.
Are all things bullet proof - well they have been severely tested and are in use today. The mileage is not yet a 200,000 - but we are getting closer to that mar each day.
I will gladly forward your thoughts to my point of contacts within sales engineering and testing to allow their feedback as well.
This is not a design created solely by Navistar. With your knowledge I am assured you are familiar with Scania and M A N. Also a part of the Traton family name and instrumental in this creation. As was the final sister company Volkswagen Commercial and Bus. This powertrain is a world wide component with 90% match of it assembly.
@MichaelOlden I'm currently driving a 2018 Volvo VHD quint dumptruck. It has the 12 speed automatic transmission. The truck is set up with a pointless hook for towing. The spots I see low performance from this machine is: When the tires start sinking, the transmission has to be manually put in first gear. In Auto mode, the transmission goes to 3rd gear by default. There's also a delay in engagement from park to forward, and forward to reverse. This slight delay, combined with the requirement of manually putting the transmission in manual adds up painstaking seconds when you're being pushed or pulled from a stuck situation. The result is the transmission gets confused with the sudden electronic demands. That's the best way I can describe it. It locks up and will kill the engine at the slightest touch of throttle. This "stubborn streak" from the transmission that happens, is followed by the boss getting upset. They have to get another piece of equipment to pull the truck out. It won't help itself out. Once the truck is out, it sits for another minute, and everything engages and shifts as it should. It's a tough transmission. The truck has just over 150,000 miles. It pulls a tag trailer with a D6K LGP without problem. It's the off road use that needs the focus. It's not uncommon to do quick direction changes, just to keep the truck moving in certain terrain. Have the engineers set up a quint dump truck with this engine transmission combo in your video. I'd be really interested in shoving better results under the Boss's nose to look at. A good truck can make more money. Bottom line.
How much is the truck
In short - there can be many adjustment to meet your requirements. That said the most recent quote for a White in color tractor is :
Sale Price without FET 172,471.19
FET 18,713.24
Sale Price Per Vehicle 191,184.43
How many can I get you???😄
Not bad
@@ac-ir9gs Thank you!
190k for international? To much even if they put Ferrari engine in it.
@@Sloba1992 lol. Not it's not. Scania engine. This isn't a trashinational. Completely different tuck. Your KW peterbilts and Volvos are $230k+. This truck will have better fuel economy and I think will be pretty reliable. I might lease one because they're offering some great incentives and uptime guarantees, from what I hear.
I hope Trump tariffs the heck out of scania to the point they can't sell them over here
Anything is better than Navistar dog crap.