Patek just wanted to raise the Nautilus price by 60%. This amount of raise wouldn't fly, so they first discontinued it, given it a facelift, and than sell it with 160% of the original Nautilus price. Clever move.
But the secondary market made the pace and pushed the Nautilus prices WAY over the top. PP only later came behind and assimilated their Nautilus sticker prices a bit. I knew when a steel 5711 was about € 13.000.- . And that was about 2012 !! Imagine that!
@@petermartin9494 my last boss before I started my firm, told me for 3 months he had bought a Nautilus. Finally got to see it, and it was an Aquanaut 😂 But to the man’s credit he just loves to spend money and is unabashed
Cubitus, with a roundius movement. And the "new calendar comp" costs 88k but is only a double calendar, not even annual--still needs 5 adjustments every year 💀💀💀
I don’t usually subscribe to many channels as I’m a bit particular on the content I watch. But man, after catching your content for few months now, you got a new subscriber sir! The analysis and how you delivered is just awesome and truly adds value in the watch collecting hobby and community imo. Keep up the good work! 🎉
There are always new and different perspectives in your analysis, that other channels just don’t seem to be able to identify. Amazing content, insides and views. Best watch channel imho
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchtried the models last week at my AD and have to admit: They are actually not that bad in the wrist. The size is actually fine. I think the watch will change a lot of minds in the near future. Pricing is still completely off, though.
If you want a square watch with complications, it's the JLC Squadra line for the win IMHO. It'll also save you circa $30-35k for what is a massively under-rated (and over-engineered) watch.
Similar to the online car community nowadays, I feel like the online watch community also just starts a circlejerk over everything that's new. I doubt this reflects the public opinion in the real world, and I wouldn't be surprised if this watch ends up being a massive success for Patek.
People need to stop calling the Nautilus, the Aquanaut, and this lazily designed watch 'sports watches'. They are integrated luxury steel watches, the Nautilus and the Aquanaut have oceanic connotations in their names, but with a WR rating of 30m you'd be worried about wearing one while being caught in a heavy rain shower. It's 2024 and Patek can only offer a 45 hour power reserve, which is hardly an industry standard, and less than a Selita 300-1 movement. It's just taking the piss out of people with more money than sense, or striving for self worth through buying a luxury brand to impress others.
To be fair Patek changed their entire WR rating earlier this year to be consistent with "actual utilization" (their words), stating they include swimming and aquatic activity up to 30m. Sort of like Omega who actually confirmed you can swim with the new Speedy even though its WR is 50m. The WR is all over the place nowadays. Regarding the power reserve, it's even worse considering they state up to 45hrs max, so that's the best case scenario. And yeah, that's unacceptable in this day and age.
@@Bestow3000After a certain price point, it’s all about the brand. If there are no gold/diamonds involved in the final product, no watch on earth can be worth 10+k, no matter how complicated the movement is.
You have described perfectly the new model isolated as itself but also within the Patek family. Totally agree! You have put my thoughts into a great video 😅 Very disappointed about Patek‘s introduction of this model after so many years…
I think it's the similarity between the Cubitus and Nautilus that wrankles. The first time I saw a Nautilus in the flesh I knew little about watches and this was way before the hype started. Despite all the appreciation I have nowadays, I have to remind myself of my first impression which was "what a fug ugly watch" Now they have made it's close cousin and despite the reputation and mystique and all the crap that surrounds it, there are now two near identical fug ugly watches. Oh, Patek will make the money hand over fist and, as a business man, Mr Stern should be well pleased with himself. As the face of a near two hundred year old, traditional and skilful watchmaker, embarrassment should be the main feature with a side dish of shame.
Thanks for the 2nd vid, Mike! Perhaps PP got too much negative feedback on the "daring" and colorful Calatrava 6007G and thus played it extra save. Even the movement (straight instead of curved finishing on the rotor) is dull
I’ve not paid any attention to this watch release. But I feel this is your best video to date, I found it very insightful and if I was a board member at Patek a would feel embarrassed after watching this.
A big part of me fully agrees with every statement you presented. A small part of me is thinking, “when the nautilus and the RO came out, they were hated on heavily but, look at those models in the market now after over 40 years”
When money from selling the thing becomes more important than the thing itself. You get crazy stuff like this. What next a Patek x Swatch perpetual calendar made of chewed seaweed. What ever happened to prestige over profit. I love watches! Sadly not what the industry has become. Great video as always. Cheers☮️
I looked up Maen and can absolutely see the similarity. My first thought was the Mido TV Big Date, though, especially with the same big date in the same spot
A little history lesson. When the Aquanaut dropped, it was mercilessly attacked. So much so that I got my orignial steel back for just a few grand. When the AD asked what I liked about it, I said "It looks like a 70's Timex to most of the world, which is what I want." I love Cubitus. It's the Santos on steroids. I'd love a 3 handed green dial model with no date. Spare, simple, elegant.
Thanks for encapsulating the challenges & constraints that TS faces. Even if this is sold as a first Patek purchase, the client will still need to have a strong recent spend history of jewellery & other watches before they can be invited to buy the Two tone or Platinum versions
You're really the best in your field mr Mike. Many give their two cents on new releases but none of them do it as nuanced as you. I really appreciate you also talking about the business side of things. Keep it up!
You keep hitting the ball out of the park Mr. Mike! Always on spot with your thorough reasoning process, regardless of the specificity of the subject. Big fan here!
I've been in the collecting game for about 25 years, and I've been watching your videos since you started creating them. With today's video, it's time to say it: you make the most intelligent, well-rounded and level-headed watch content on UA-cam. You're up there with Tim Mosso. Different angle, but you're up there.
The DNA of the Patek Phillipe Cubitus seems to be stylistically a quadrisomic mutation of the Nautilus, in the same genetic derivative manner as the Aquanaut is a trisomic version of the Nautilus. They basically could have named it Patek Phillipe Quadrisomicus.
I’ve paused my watch interest/ hobby/ obsession for a while now since I bought my Apple Watch. Then your channel caught my attention and I’m so blown away by your analysis that now the obsession is back. 😂 thanks for your thoughts!
Very good video. I agree with the point that the Cubitus is “good enough.” From a business perspective, the real objective seems to be pushing the entry-level price significantly higher than the current sports watches, represented by the Nautilus and Aquanaut. With the Cubitus priced at €40,900, compared to the Nautilus at €32,300 and the Aquanaut at €24,600, entry into the Patek Philippe world will now require around 30% more investment. At the same time, this will support the full transition of the Nautilus and Aquanaut lines to gold-only models and higher prices for complications, creating further exclusivity. By launching a completely new model, Patek avoids the backlash that other brands, like JLC, faced with price hikes on existing models, as this introduction justifies its premium positioning from the start.
For me the i dont think good enough is good enough.. If i ever buy a an other patek it Will be other styles, they have a beautiful catalog, and i have never really counted nautilus or now cubitus as something to write home about and for me its not really classy enough and its not sporty so a little bit pointless to be honest .. But they have many other Nice and actually beautiful watches..
Thank you very much for the interesting and informative comment. I'm not a fan of square watches, so I don't get "blood pressure" when I look at the Cubitus. It doesn't trigger anything in me and doesn't affect me. But even from a distance, the Sterns are probably in an echo chamber with very thick walls in terms of pricing and the self-confidence behind the Cubitus ;-)
Cubitus with the 2 offset subdials of different sizes looks like Quassimodos face. Ditch the subdials, keep the big date at 12 and it would look great!
Well said! The Royal Oak was daring and unpopular at first. Now look at it. Square watches are rare. JLC had the Squadra, GO had the Sixties Square Chrono, and I believe Roger Dubuis had something too. This new Patek line will be more popular than all of those and will evolve like the Code 11:59. My gripe: Not a fan of the minute hand. It’s too short!😊
Cartier Santos...39.8mm; Bulgari octo 40mm; This Patek Cubitus is... HUGE!!! at 44.5 it's even larger that the SS Bulgari 43mm chrono... and that is a huge watch. If the cubitus would have been a lot smaller at a maximum of 40mm I would understand, but now it's just ridiculous... a pizza box on the wrist.
@@pieterjlansbergen6988 measured my santos large… 48mm 10 to 4. So it’s a bit smaller than the santos large but more… squareish and thinner. Hm… we might be onto something here
I have a good friend who is both a Santos owner and has had hands on with the cubitus. I've seen some comparison pics on his wrist. Dial+case wise the Santos large and Cubitus are pretty close. The cubitus comes across as larger for (as I see it) three reasons. - The classic rounded sides of the cubitus (like the nautilus case) add much more width than the santos. - Although the Cubitus is a smidge thinner, the raised bezel adds presence to the watch - The lack of extending lugs on the cubitus make the case itself stand out more / make it more pronounced. As I said in a video a while ago. Measurements are one thing. The on wrist experience can vary quite a bit.
My take: a watch that no one asked for. Came late to the party. If this watch would've been released prior to the Maen Manhattan or the PRX, this would've been a hit. But, I can't stop thinking about a Manhattan when looking at this watch.
I am 40 years old and I'd definitely wear it if there wasn't that hefty price tag. So, I think they're opening up to a younger audience, like you said in the video and I think that plan will work out great.
Putting a round movement in a square watch is lazy-but hey, it’s able to hack now!! It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see how this turns out for ‘em!😎
I think this has been the most thoughtful take on the subject so far. Personally I like it and if that wasn’t bad enough, I think the two tone is my favorite because of the contrast and vintage feel.
Excellently put, you expounded on the thoughts i was had but was struggling to articulate. totally agreed. ironically, their prestige caused them this backlash but it's also going to propel them forward.
I saw the 3 models in person yesterday and I ordered the green one. It’s a bit big but I really like it (it did grow on me as the night went on). I have a Patek collection and this is a great addition 👌👌👌
Square watch with complications done right is GO Seventies Panorama Date. If we are speaking integrated bracelet sport square watches GO and Santos would be top of my list.
Well said, Mike, thanks for analyzing and speaking up. All by itself, it's not a bad watch (the non-complicated version). But within their big picture, it reveals much more that pokes the eyes and sanctions the widespread ridicule.
“I don’t care if the ghost of Mother Theresa polished this case by breathing carefully on it from the afterlife for over a year…”. I might actually pay a premium for that! 😂😂😂
I feel like the best way to get some original ideas into a place as insular and risk averse as a 150+ yr old company is to bring in young or outside talent. They should be paying consultant fees to microbrand (or even just industrial design) rising stars and say "Hey, if you had no budget and were designing a replacement for the nautilus, what would you do?" And then just use that as the inspiration, add the tweaks as you've said they're good at adding. But going back to the risk averse point, they're more likely to just go with what they know
Great take. The Cubitus is like Ferrari's F50 following the F40. But you're right, the Cubitus will sell out because it's a Patek, and therefore, will become collectible.
The F50 was made with passion by a team of engineers and designers motivated to push the boundaries afforded the category “road car”. The cubitus was made out of a desire to pursue packets of corporate jargon by an executive suite that needed an excuse to increase the cost-to-consumer of components found in a superior product.
The Swiss watch industry is really dying. Some change bezel or dial color in the name of innovation. The top brand Patek took 25 years to launch a new product by changing shapes 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Been saying this for years. They offer nothing in the form of innovation pushing time keeping to the next level. Just gold this silver that. Oh here is some platinum of the same watches. Now one of the top names makes a square watch😂 of the same watches they been making
That would hurt the Patek brand. They have to be very careful how they set their price floor. A Rolex OP is in the 5-6k range. Patek wants to maintain its image as being a tier above Rolex.
Varus and valgus are anatomical terms that refer to a variation in the angle at certain joints, for instance genu valgus refers to being knock-kneed ( in fact most normal knees are slightly valgus to accommodate the angle at the hip. Cubitus refers to the elbow (humero-ulnar joint). The little diamond or square shaped depression at the front of the elbow where the nurse draws blood is called the cubital fossa. There is also a square(ish) bone in the foot called the cuboid.....I think you can see where this is going. 😊
This is why I respect Audemars Piguet for making the CODE11:59, they actually did something new and people judged them too harshly, the new dials look fantastic, that circular tapisserie is a thing of beauty. Patek made here a rougher Nautilus, it is an unpolished Nautilus design, it's like the went backwards. The Cubitus looks like the first generation Nautilus.
I don’t get why this is being called their “entry” sports watch. It is substantially more money than a steel Aquanaut. £10k more plus if they are both on a bracelet. I’d love to hear in detail why the nautilus is not higher in your integrated sports watch list. To me it feels like the slightly more mature version of the Royal Oak and a slightly more complete design.
Am I in the right line for the Mother Theresa watch? Kidding aside, I just got back seeing so many innovative microbrands at the Wind Up watch fair, and have no patience for Patek anymore lol There was a watch based on a gladiator helmet, a dial made from the holographic film on recycled passports, and the front window of a spaceship in hyperspace. They'll have to do better than a square named after a forearm deformity.
BRILLIANT! I hadn’t thought of it that way. The Nautilus does make other Patek Philippe models feel less desirable, so why not make the Nautilus less attractive (squared) to align it more with the rest of the Patek lineup? It’s a perfect marketing strategy. Clearly, this design isn’t from Patek, and even less from Stern, but in 50 years, will people still remember? Probably not-they might even credit it as a revolutionary idea from Stern himself. The younger generation who can afford this watch (like football players) will love it, and will love it big. And It’s a great choice as an entry into the brand for them. I’m just a bit sad because I don’t think Genta’s designs should be treated this way… but hey, who cares, right?!
2 comments and I would dearly love to speak to you over a zoom about this 1- forearm deformity- hah- I enjoyed that - more common than you might think, and more of an elbow deformity but I enjoyed the link 2- there is a very big philosophical conversation to be had around watch collectors, watch history buffs and the average market consumer vision- there was a good article about the Cactus Jack that touched similar themes and the comments section was staggering in what it revealed about how collectors view the issue It's a longish discussion that I would love to pick up because your level and style of analysis suits the discussion Personally I don't hate the Deformity watch- but more than 30KUSD is too much imho
Feel as a society we are running out of ideas…watches, cars, clothes, video games, music….everything seems to be copy & paste, cookie cutter ideas lately. An unrenaissance
you guys are INSANE this is a BEAUTIFUL timepiece and ive said it from the beginning I KNOW without a doubt 60% of those who say they hate this watch will come around very quick
I think it looks good, and I’m not even a square watch fan… people on forums/internet have way too much time on their hands to spend it on hating on something they might not even afford and own ever. I’m not worry for Patek’s future…
I had never even heard of or seen the Czapek Antrartique until you mentioned it in this video. Starting looking into it and man! What a beautiful piece. Had my eye on a GP Laureato, now my attention has shifted. 😂
Great video. My two cents. Rather than evaluating the watch, I simply asked myself "Who is this for?". At a glance, looks like the old model, but rather than sort-of 8-sided, it is sort-of 4-sided. As the owner of a Cartier Santos Large, I can tell you that 45mm square is massive. $41,240 USD is around $10k less expensive than any current Nautilus, so I guess that's a bargain. But for $41k, alternatives abound. From Royal Oak to precious metal VC with complications. For example, at this price point, I'd much rather own the VC Fiftysix Complete Calendar, brown dial, rose gold case. Stunning watch, Geneva Seal movement and case. Perhaps a comparison to the Overseas would be more appropriate. Anyway, the point I'm fumbling to make here is that the Cubitus is a large, expensive, date-only watch. So who is it for? A larger person. A person with sufficient financial resources. A person who loves this design, and/ or a person who wants to own PP, regardless of lack of value relative to tip-tier alternatives manufacturers. Presumably the PP marketing team knows what it is doing, so this buyer must be out there. That said, the marketing folks would have benefited from reviewing the story of Chevy Nova exports to Spanish-speaking countries.
@@terrificlion2328 if you’re going to take that attitude about it, that will apply to almost everybody with an opinion here - I wish you luck with your purchase.
without the addditional comlication of a circular moon phase and a small second thingy,, it looks better. But the former looks terrible. I would rather get a Cartier Santos, like you. Thanks!
I think it looks good and still identifiable as a Patek for anyone who has an interest in watches, yes it’s expensive but that’s Patek for ya. Why not? Seems like Cartier sells plenty of Santos
Hot take but, Cubitus is the real successor to the 5711. The 5711 at retail was priced lesser than the stainless steel model of the Cubitus. PP discontinued the 5711 to leverage the market hype back in 2021, released the green 5711 and the Tiffany blue to milk as much as they can during the craze. Now that the hype has died down, PP needs an entry sports model in their collection and since the Cubitus is an entirely brand "new" collection, they can price it higher than the 5711 and move up-market. It's a disgusting business strategy but a smart one nonetheless.
Very interesting angle you point here. sometimes seems counter-intuitive how this big brands operate and i think this is very insightful take on it. Keep it up👍
Really love your videos and your point of view. I can learn a lot about watch industry from your videos. And you really help me to evolve my taste in whatches. Having said that, I felt absolutely in love with the cubitus 🤣
Great video. Could you do a video discussing the state of the collection of LUChopard? I don't see many talking about it, but I think the quality is close to Vacheron or Patek.
I kind of like it, but I wish the dial had some texture other than the nautilus horizontal embossed lines. At 40k tho they're taking the mickey. I think the octo finissimo is hard to beat design wise, and price point.
This very much reminds me of the square Royal Oaks that AP sold in the '80s. I'd love it if they brought that back just for the sake of competing head to head with the Cubitus.
Agreed. The overall design is ok. Not terrible, nor anything I’ll be pining over. But the size is off putting. I find the price amusing. I’m expecting it will sell out to less discerning consumers.
@@errolmclaughlin1482 Proportions where the bracelet meet the case do look odd in photos, a little better when not square on or from behind. I expect on the wrist it actually works. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I might be alone on this but not agreeing with you confirms I’ve subscribed wisely. Otherwise I’d be sat in an echo chamber, inflating my confirmation bias and suffocating any independent thinking. excellent work
Amazing video, thank you for your honesty. If this watch was the same price as the Cartier Santos I would still buy the Cartier Santos. I would probably do it even if the price was a few thousand dollars lower !
i saw several versions when i was in singapore a few weeks ago (the weekend it had been released) i understand why they did it and honestly, i don't mind the Rose Gold 5821/1AR, there certainly are better watches but hey it's a relatively affordable patek.. so i'm definitely going to get one sometime in the future even if i generally prefer round faces aswell
Wow, an extra video and a great one. The true sin is charging $40k. If they released it under another brand name there would be less criticism. However, the watch would have died via indifference. As you have noted good design depends on symmetry that is often unconscious. This looks like a watch run through a pasta machine. Mash into thinness but don’t edit the width.
The watch is alright if it were just a few mm smaller. It’s still won’t be a Nautilus but would be much more desirable. This one unfortunately is still going to drop for a premium with eternal wait lists. I on the other hand am trying to find a good condition 3800 which is 38mm because I believe the Nautilus was a bit too big for its era and for a proper gentleman taste. As usual the most sensible and measured content I’ve watched in the past few days about the release of the Cubitus.
They cheaped out by keeping the same Nautilus movement and bracelet, and building the case around them. It's quite telling when Patek does this...
The original brac is supposed to be perfect. Why would you mess with perfection? You don’t.
@@hemantishwaran5741but you don’t give your prettiest daughter to the ugliest groom either
@@hemantishwaran5741they have messed with perfection though, they took a square rule to one of the most iconic designs ever
They just built the movement, Jaeger LeCoultre developed it...
@@hemantishwaran5741 Because the bracelet is round while the case is angular. It's complete laziness.
Patek just wanted to raise the Nautilus price by 60%. This amount of raise wouldn't fly, so they first discontinued it, given it a facelift, and than sell it with 160% of the original Nautilus price. Clever move.
The real fools are the people who buy this stuff.
But the secondary market made the pace and pushed the Nautilus prices WAY over the top. PP only later came behind and assimilated their Nautilus sticker prices a bit. I knew when a steel 5711 was about € 13.000.- . And that was about 2012 !! Imagine that!
@@petermartin9494 my last boss before I started my firm, told me for 3 months he had bought a Nautilus. Finally got to see it, and it was an Aquanaut 😂 But to the man’s credit he just loves to spend money and is unabashed
Oooffff!
@@petermartin9494 if you bought this at retail you would not be a fool. The person that bought it from you if you chose to sell it would be.
Cubitus, with a roundius movement. And the "new calendar comp" costs 88k but is only a double calendar, not even annual--still needs 5 adjustments every year 💀💀💀
yeah... and they said it is huge breakthrough with 6 patents😂
It's exactly like the Spaceballs quote ... Spaceballs 2 - the quest for more money
The size of The Schwartz on those guys.
Businesses generally exist to make money so it makes sense
Ludicrous speed …. We’ve gone plaid
@@watchdogpodcast239Absolutely. Maen manages to make a profit charging €700-€900 for a Manhattan that the Cubitus homages. 😂
“WOW, LIQUID SCHWARTZ!!!” 😎
I don’t usually subscribe to many channels as I’m a bit particular on the content I watch. But man, after catching your content for few months now, you got a new subscriber sir! The analysis and how you delivered is just awesome and truly adds value in the watch collecting hobby and community imo. Keep up the good work! 🎉
Welcome aboard and thanks a ton. Really appreciated 😀
There are always new and different perspectives in your analysis, that other channels just don’t seem to be able to identify. Amazing content, insides and views.
Best watch channel imho
I think I speak for many of us here: Agreed!
Far more eloquently put than what I came here to say and we share the same exact sentiment.
Thanks for watching - I try at least to not jump on the hype opinions 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchtried the models last week at my AD and have to admit: They are actually not that bad in the wrist. The size is actually fine. I think the watch will change a lot of minds in the near future.
Pricing is still completely off, though.
Thought i got my days wrong…a Sunday video drop from Mike 😂. Great review as always. Cheers 🍻
Two videos in a weekend. A rarity for me 😀
If you want a square watch with complications, it's the JLC Squadra line for the win IMHO. It'll also save you circa $30-35k for what is a massively under-rated (and over-engineered) watch.
This! Same thoughts about the Squadra and the Santos when I saw this.
I agree. For a plain square watch hard to beat the new Santos. Horologically not the best but a fantastic and timeless design.
Similar to the online car community nowadays, I feel like the online watch community also just starts a circlejerk over everything that's new.
I doubt this reflects the public opinion in the real world, and I wouldn't be surprised if this watch ends up being a massive success for Patek.
People need to stop calling the Nautilus, the Aquanaut, and this lazily designed watch 'sports watches'. They are integrated luxury steel watches, the Nautilus and the Aquanaut have oceanic connotations in their names, but with a WR rating of 30m you'd be worried about wearing one while being caught in a heavy rain shower. It's 2024 and Patek can only offer a 45 hour power reserve, which is hardly an industry standard, and less than a Selita 300-1 movement. It's just taking the piss out of people with more money than sense, or striving for self worth through buying a luxury brand to impress others.
To be fair Patek changed their entire WR rating earlier this year to be consistent with "actual utilization" (their words), stating they include swimming and aquatic activity up to 30m. Sort of like Omega who actually confirmed you can swim with the new Speedy even though its WR is 50m. The WR is all over the place nowadays.
Regarding the power reserve, it's even worse considering they state up to 45hrs max, so that's the best case scenario. And yeah, that's unacceptable in this day and age.
@@troisk
For a brand way more prestigious than Rolex, Rolex still produces objectively better watches which is really unacceptable.
@@Bestow3000After a certain price point, it’s all about the brand. If there are no gold/diamonds involved in the final product, no watch on earth can be worth 10+k, no matter how complicated the movement is.
@@Bestow3000 Still Rolex watches are not impressive at all for their retail. Breitling has more beauty.
@@troisk Would you trust their utilisation? Not me.
Looks a little like an homage to the Herbelin Cap Camarat Square - which is a tiny bit cheaper at 950€😉
Wasn't familiar with this watch. It's pretty cool! And far better looking than the Patek.
I was thinking the Maen Manhattan!
@@_all_around_usand they have a small option too, but without the date
I have that one in quartz, it has some nautilus and some Santos in it. I love it and it's great quality for the money.
Even the Maen Manhattan was a homage to the Vacheron Constantin ref: 2215
The Maen comparison is on point. But, the maen is more interesting and at a much better price point
...and you can actually buy it😎
You have described perfectly the new model isolated as itself but also within the Patek family. Totally agree! You have put my thoughts into a great video 😅 Very disappointed about Patek‘s introduction of this model after so many years…
Another calm, mature take, thank you.
id appreciate a talk on patek in an ironed shirt though
Patek doesn't deserve me ironing a shirt on a sunday. 😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch i suggest next time you go full commando
had the movement been square with case size of 34mm, case could have been made for a genuine release. for now rest in peace Genta
I think it's the similarity between the Cubitus and Nautilus that wrankles. The first time I saw a Nautilus in the flesh I knew little about watches and this was way before the hype started. Despite all the appreciation I have nowadays, I have to remind myself of my first impression which was "what a fug ugly watch" Now they have made it's close cousin and despite the reputation and mystique and all the crap that surrounds it, there are now two near identical fug ugly watches. Oh, Patek will make the money hand over fist and, as a business man, Mr Stern should be well pleased with himself. As the face of a near two hundred year old, traditional and skilful watchmaker, embarrassment should be the main feature with a side dish of shame.
I had exactly the same view when I first saw the Nautilus many years ago
Thanks for the 2nd vid, Mike! Perhaps PP got too much negative feedback on the "daring" and colorful Calatrava 6007G and thus played it extra save. Even the movement (straight instead of curved finishing on the rotor) is dull
I will never forget him 6007g video! 😂
I’ve not paid any attention to this watch release. But I feel this is your best video to date, I found it very insightful and if I was a board member at Patek a would feel embarrassed after watching this.
A big part of me fully agrees with every statement you presented. A small part of me is thinking, “when the nautilus and the RO came out, they were hated on heavily but, look at those models in the market now after over 40 years”
The Nautilus being popular is a relatively new thing. The aquanaut is still largely only popular because the Nautilus is so hard to get 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch weird move overall. Can’t afford either but makes me appreciate the code and pieces out of VC more
When money from selling the thing becomes more important than the thing itself. You get crazy stuff like this. What next a Patek x Swatch perpetual calendar made of chewed seaweed. What ever happened to prestige over profit. I love watches! Sadly not what the industry has become. Great video as always.
Cheers☮️
The Maen looks much better imo. Great breakdown Mike.
I looked up Maen and can absolutely see the similarity. My first thought was the Mido TV Big Date, though, especially with the same big date in the same spot
A little history lesson. When the Aquanaut dropped, it was mercilessly attacked. So much so that I got my orignial steel back for just a few grand. When the AD asked what I liked about it, I said "It looks like a 70's Timex to most of the world, which is what I want." I love Cubitus. It's the Santos on steroids. I'd love a 3 handed green dial model with no date. Spare, simple, elegant.
We like what we like. Always 🙂
Patek wishes there were more like you :)
Thanks for encapsulating the challenges & constraints that TS faces.
Even if this is sold as a first Patek purchase, the client will still need to have a strong recent spend history of jewellery & other watches before they can be invited to buy the Two tone or Platinum versions
Yeah.... it's pretty bad, especially on wrist. Agreed, looks good in isolation.
💯
Good to know 😀
You're really the best in your field mr Mike. Many give their two cents on new releases but none of them do it as nuanced as you. I really appreciate you also talking about the business side of things. Keep it up!
Amazing analysis as always. Keep up the great work
Much appreciated!
Your analysis is certainly one of the most informed, insightful and balanced I’ve heard. Quietly devastating too, in places. Well done sir.
Thanks. Trying to be balanced and in fairness especially since hands on could perhaps change an opinion
Love that u said “rather have cartier santos” which i have and said the same exact thing when i saw this watch
bingo
The Santos looks more original, too
You keep hitting the ball out of the park Mr. Mike! Always on spot with your thorough reasoning process, regardless of the specificity of the subject. Big fan here!
Thanks - Appreciated ❤️
I've been in the collecting game for about 25 years, and I've been watching your videos since you started creating them. With today's video, it's time to say it: you make the most intelligent, well-rounded and level-headed watch content on UA-cam. You're up there with Tim Mosso. Different angle, but you're up there.
Very kind of you - Thanks a ton 😀
The DNA of the Patek Phillipe Cubitus seems to be stylistically a quadrisomic mutation of the Nautilus, in the same genetic derivative manner as the Aquanaut is a trisomic version of the Nautilus. They basically could have named it Patek Phillipe Quadrisomicus.
This is a Friday afternoon job…just stretch out the Nautilus a bit…
friday afternoon after a few beers at lunch time...
Remember. The box is also a cube....
I’ve paused my watch interest/ hobby/ obsession for a while now since I bought my Apple Watch. Then your channel caught my attention and I’m so blown away by your analysis that now the obsession is back. 😂 thanks for your thoughts!
Very good video.
I agree with the point that the Cubitus is “good enough.” From a business perspective, the real objective seems to be pushing the entry-level price significantly higher than the current sports watches, represented by the Nautilus and Aquanaut. With the Cubitus priced at €40,900, compared to the Nautilus at €32,300 and the Aquanaut at €24,600, entry into the Patek Philippe world will now require around 30% more investment. At the same time, this will support the full transition of the Nautilus and Aquanaut lines to gold-only models and higher prices for complications, creating further exclusivity. By launching a completely new model, Patek avoids the backlash that other brands, like JLC, faced with price hikes on existing models, as this introduction justifies its premium positioning from the start.
This is just a long way to say it’s a cash grab that doesn’t look like it
For me the i dont think good enough is good enough.. If i ever buy a an other patek it Will be other styles, they have a beautiful catalog, and i have never really counted nautilus or now cubitus as something to write home about and for me its not really classy enough and its not sporty so a little bit pointless to be honest .. But they have many other Nice and actually beautiful watches..
They saw the gold trump watch and thought - 40K actually seems reasonable now 😂
Thank you very much for the interesting and informative comment. I'm not a fan of square watches, so I don't get "blood pressure" when I look at the Cubitus. It doesn't trigger anything in me and doesn't affect me. But even from a distance, the Sterns are probably in an echo chamber with very thick walls in terms of pricing and the self-confidence behind the Cubitus ;-)
Cubitus with the 2 offset subdials of different sizes looks like Quassimodos face. Ditch the subdials, keep the big date at 12 and it would look great!
I am not a fan of offset dials. Rarely are they good 😀
Well said! The Royal Oak was daring and unpopular at first. Now look at it.
Square watches are rare. JLC had the Squadra, GO had the Sixties Square Chrono, and I believe Roger Dubuis had something too. This new Patek line will be more popular than all of those and will evolve like the Code 11:59.
My gripe: Not a fan of the minute hand. It’s too short!😊
Heeey ! We get two videos this week ! Happy days !
Cubitus was too interesting to pass up 😀
mike when i first came across your videos i was not a fan but after reviewing more i hat to admit you were correct on a lot of issues....i subed
Welcome aboard. Glad you took the time to give me a second chance 😀
No original design by Pattek Phillipe.
Cudos to MAEN WATCHES, MANHATTAN 37 & 39 UltraThin.
Thank you and Godspeed.
Maen haven't done anything original at all - the Manhattan is a straight copy of Vacheron's Royal Chronometer 2215.
@@sidesauce So the original design and concept was from Vacheron Constantin.
Thank you for your enlightenment and useful information.
Godspeed to you.
A steel sports watch from Patek that mere mortals could actually _get,_ I'd be all for. Time will tell.
Cartier Santos...39.8mm; Bulgari octo 40mm; This Patek Cubitus is... HUGE!!! at 44.5 it's even larger that the SS Bulgari 43mm chrono... and that is a huge watch. If the cubitus would have been a lot smaller at a maximum of 40mm I would understand, but now it's just ridiculous... a pizza box on the wrist.
It is not as the side of a square that size is less than 32mm. Square watches dress very differently than round shaped ones.
@@pieterjlansbergen6988 hold on… it’s 45mm 10 to 4… you’re right. So it’s almost like the Cartier Santos medium
@@pieterjlansbergen6988 measured my santos large… 48mm 10 to 4. So it’s a bit smaller than the santos large but more… squareish and thinner. Hm… we might be onto something here
I have a good friend who is both a Santos owner and has had hands on with the cubitus. I've seen some comparison pics on his wrist.
Dial+case wise the Santos large and Cubitus are pretty close. The cubitus comes across as larger for (as I see it) three reasons.
- The classic rounded sides of the cubitus (like the nautilus case) add much more width than the santos.
- Although the Cubitus is a smidge thinner, the raised bezel adds presence to the watch
- The lack of extending lugs on the cubitus make the case itself stand out more / make it more pronounced.
As I said in a video a while ago. Measurements are one thing. The on wrist experience can vary quite a bit.
I love your tough love review. Your content is the best in the biz.
Glad you like them
My take: a watch that no one asked for. Came late to the party. If this watch would've been released prior to the Maen Manhattan or the PRX, this would've been a hit. But, I can't stop thinking about a Manhattan when looking at this watch.
Sorry but 99.9% of the people who would/could buy a Cubitus have never heard of Maen
I am 40 years old and I'd definitely wear it if there wasn't that hefty price tag. So, I think they're opening up to a younger audience, like you said in the video and I think that plan will work out great.
You would take a Tag Monaco Steve McQueen over that every time surely?
At least that’s got some decent history and is iconic for a number of reasons
I came here just to say that. Love or hate TAG Heuer (love here), the Monaco is still THE square watch.
I've always felt the monaco was too big - Square watches in general are not my thing and when they are, they're on the smaller side 😀
Putting a round movement in a square watch is lazy-but hey, it’s able to hack now!!
It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see how this turns out for ‘em!😎
If the green dial variant was blue, it'd be hugely popular imo
I think the green will do fine as well 😀
I think this has been the most thoughtful take on the subject so far. Personally I like it and if that wasn’t bad enough, I think the two tone is my favorite because of the contrast and vintage feel.
I try to be balanced at least. thanks for watching 😀
7:42 😂
Excellently put, you expounded on the thoughts i was had but was struggling to articulate. totally agreed. ironically, their prestige caused them this backlash but it's also going to propel them forward.
I saw the 3 models in person yesterday and I ordered the green one. It’s a bit big but I really like it (it did grow on me as the night went on). I have a Patek collection and this is a great addition 👌👌👌
lucky oyu
Square watch with complications done right is GO Seventies Panorama Date. If we are speaking integrated bracelet sport square watches GO and Santos would be top of my list.
Yes, this is an inbreed of Santos and Nautilus.
Agree. Another better square watch 😀
Yes, extremely horrible. I have no words for how bad this really is
Well said, Mike, thanks for analyzing and speaking up. All by itself, it's not a bad watch (the non-complicated version). But within their big picture, it reveals much more that pokes the eyes and sanctions the widespread ridicule.
“I don’t care if the ghost of Mother Theresa polished this case by breathing carefully on it from the afterlife for over a year…”. I might actually pay a premium for that! 😂😂😂
Doing my best to channel Andrew Morgans humour 😀
I feel like the best way to get some original ideas into a place as insular and risk averse as a 150+ yr old company is to bring in young or outside talent. They should be paying consultant fees to microbrand (or even just industrial design) rising stars and say "Hey, if you had no budget and were designing a replacement for the nautilus, what would you do?" And then just use that as the inspiration, add the tweaks as you've said they're good at adding.
But going back to the risk averse point, they're more likely to just go with what they know
Big companies never innovate. Their only option is to bring in ideas from the outside. And Patek didn't 😀
Why are we ranting?!!! We are probably not Patek"s customers
I have been known to walk past their boutique on occasion 😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I have set myself an upper limit on price of watches Nothing more than USD 20K
Great take. The Cubitus is like Ferrari's F50 following the F40. But you're right, the Cubitus will sell out because it's a Patek, and therefore, will become collectible.
I think its much more like the F80. Super ugly.
The F50 was made with passion by a team of engineers and designers motivated to push the boundaries afforded the category “road car”.
The cubitus was made out of a desire to pursue packets of corporate jargon by an executive suite that needed an excuse to increase the cost-to-consumer of components found in a superior product.
Good comparison. Tend to agree... 😀
The Swiss watch industry is really dying. Some change bezel or dial color in the name of innovation. The top brand Patek took 25 years to launch a new product by changing shapes 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Been saying this for years. They offer nothing in the form of innovation pushing time keeping to the next level. Just gold this silver that. Oh here is some platinum of the same watches. Now one of the top names makes a square watch😂 of the same watches they been making
If they had a steel model in the 5-6k or 10-15k areas of the market, they would absolutely dominate.
That would hurt the Patek brand. They have to be very careful how they set their price floor. A Rolex OP is in the 5-6k range. Patek wants to maintain its image as being a tier above Rolex.
I read or heard someone saying: if Nautilus and Santos were married this watch would be their deformed child! 😂
lol 😂
Varus and valgus are anatomical terms that refer to a variation in the angle at certain joints, for instance genu valgus refers to being knock-kneed ( in fact most normal knees are slightly valgus to accommodate the angle at the hip. Cubitus refers to the elbow (humero-ulnar joint). The little diamond or square shaped depression at the front of the elbow where the nurse draws blood is called the cubital fossa. There is also a square(ish) bone in the foot called the cuboid.....I think you can see where this is going. 😊
This just makes the Maen more fashionable. They were already great value watches and just got better.
This is why I respect Audemars Piguet for making the CODE11:59, they actually did something new and people judged them too harshly, the new dials look fantastic, that circular tapisserie is a thing of beauty. Patek made here a rougher Nautilus, it is an unpolished Nautilus design, it's like the went backwards. The Cubitus looks like the first generation Nautilus.
The 11.59 is getting better with every iteration 😀😀
I don’t get why this is being called their “entry” sports watch. It is substantially more money than a steel Aquanaut. £10k more plus if they are both on a bracelet.
I’d love to hear in detail why the nautilus is not higher in your integrated sports watch list. To me it feels like the slightly more mature version of the Royal Oak and a slightly more complete design.
Thierry explicitly stated it was their new accessible option 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I know, I don’t get it. ;)
Am I in the right line for the Mother Theresa watch?
Kidding aside, I just got back seeing so many innovative microbrands at the Wind Up watch fair, and have no patience for Patek anymore lol
There was a watch based on a gladiator helmet, a dial made from the holographic film on recycled passports, and the front window of a spaceship in hyperspace. They'll have to do better than a square named after a forearm deformity.
BRILLIANT! I hadn’t thought of it that way. The Nautilus does make other Patek Philippe models feel less desirable, so why not make the Nautilus less attractive (squared) to align it more with the rest of the Patek lineup?
It’s a perfect marketing strategy. Clearly, this design isn’t from Patek, and even less from Stern, but in 50 years, will people still remember? Probably not-they might even credit it as a revolutionary idea from Stern himself.
The younger generation who can afford this watch (like football players) will love it, and will love it big. And It’s a great choice as an entry into the brand for them. I’m just a bit sad because I don’t think Genta’s designs should be treated this way… but hey, who cares, right?!
2 comments and I would dearly love to speak to you over a zoom about this
1- forearm deformity- hah- I enjoyed that - more common than you might think, and more of an elbow deformity but I enjoyed the link
2- there is a very big philosophical conversation to be had around watch collectors, watch history buffs and the average market consumer vision- there was a good article about the Cactus Jack that touched similar themes and the comments section was staggering in what it revealed about how collectors view the issue
It's a longish discussion that I would love to pick up because your level and style of analysis suits the discussion
Personally I don't hate the Deformity watch- but more than 30KUSD is too much imho
Great way to start the week with a clearly timely view on Patek! You da man Mike - Cheers
Cheers always 😀
Feel as a society we are running out of ideas…watches, cars, clothes, video games, music….everything seems to be copy & paste, cookie cutter ideas lately. An unrenaissance
you guys are INSANE this is a BEAUTIFUL timepiece and ive said it from the beginning I KNOW without a doubt 60% of those who say they hate this watch will come around very quick
I think it looks good, and I’m not even a square watch fan… people on forums/internet have way too much time on their hands to spend it on hating on something they might not even afford and own ever. I’m not worry for Patek’s future…
Think I'd prefer the arm deformity over one of those watches :)
😂
I had never even heard of or seen the Czapek Antrartique until you mentioned it in this video. Starting looking into it and man! What a beautiful piece. Had my eye on a GP Laureato, now my attention has shifted. 😂
Czapek do some good stuff for sure
Great video. My two cents. Rather than evaluating the watch, I simply asked myself "Who is this for?". At a glance, looks like the old model, but rather than sort-of 8-sided, it is sort-of 4-sided. As the owner of a Cartier Santos Large, I can tell you that 45mm square is massive. $41,240 USD is around $10k less expensive than any current Nautilus, so I guess that's a bargain. But for $41k, alternatives abound. From Royal Oak to precious metal VC with complications. For example, at this price point, I'd much rather own the VC Fiftysix Complete Calendar, brown dial, rose gold case. Stunning watch, Geneva Seal movement and case. Perhaps a comparison to the Overseas would be more appropriate. Anyway, the point I'm fumbling to make here is that the Cubitus is a large, expensive, date-only watch. So who is it for? A larger person. A person with sufficient financial resources. A person who loves this design, and/ or a person who wants to own PP, regardless of lack of value relative to tip-tier alternatives manufacturers. Presumably the PP marketing team knows what it is doing, so this buyer must be out there. That said, the marketing folks would have benefited from reviewing the story of Chevy Nova exports to Spanish-speaking countries.
absolutely brilliant fair review. This Watch would be acceptable from patek if it was only steel, reasonably sized and cost 8k.
@@terrificlion2328 if you’re going to take that attitude about it, that will apply to almost everybody with an opinion here - I wish you luck with your purchase.
Thanks. If only rich people were allowed to have opinions the world would be a much worse place. It's gatekeeping of the worst kind
I always liked your videos but this one… gosh you nail it so much! Not a sentence that I could agree more!
Kind of you. As always - The goal is not to get people to agree. It's to invite conversation. Cheers 😀
Great great great analysis. I just subscribed, now I am watching all the rest of your videos.
Welcome aboard 😀
without the addditional comlication of a circular moon phase and a small second thingy,, it looks better. But the former looks terrible. I would rather get a Cartier Santos, like you. Thanks!
I agree with you
Great video. Thank you. Would love to know about watches that weren’t initially well received that later on became big sellers.
I think it looks good and still identifiable as a Patek for anyone who has an interest in watches, yes it’s expensive but that’s Patek for ya.
Why not? Seems like Cartier sells plenty of Santos
Hot take but, Cubitus is the real successor to the 5711. The 5711 at retail was priced lesser than the stainless steel model of the Cubitus. PP discontinued the 5711 to leverage the market hype back in 2021, released the green 5711 and the Tiffany blue to milk as much as they can during the craze. Now that the hype has died down, PP needs an entry sports model in their collection and since the Cubitus is an entirely brand "new" collection, they can price it higher than the 5711 and move up-market. It's a disgusting business strategy but a smart one nonetheless.
Very interesting angle you point here. sometimes seems counter-intuitive how this big brands operate and i think this is very insightful take on it. Keep it up👍
Really love your videos and your point of view. I can learn a lot about watch industry from your videos.
And you really help me to evolve my taste in whatches.
Having said that, I felt absolutely in love with the cubitus 🤣
We like what we like 😀
Great video. Could you do a video discussing the state of the collection of LUChopard? I don't see many talking about it, but I think the quality is close to Vacheron or Patek.
I kind of like it, but I wish the dial had some texture other than the nautilus horizontal embossed lines. At 40k tho they're taking the mickey. I think the octo finissimo is hard to beat design wise, and price point.
This very much reminds me of the square Royal Oaks that AP sold in the '80s. I'd love it if they brought that back just for the sake of competing head to head with the Cubitus.
love it it feel very very solid in the hand and stand out from other watches
This analysis is tremendous. You have out done yourself. Naturally, I still want one. 😎
Cheers and thanks 😀
Agreed. The overall design is ok. Not terrible, nor anything I’ll be pining over. But the size is off putting. I find the price amusing. I’m expecting it will sell out to less discerning consumers.
A square nautilus. When the 5711 was discontinued most watch nerds assumed a similar piece would replace it.Well here we are.
It did take 35 years before the nautilus really became popular though 😀
I’ve NEVER disagreed with Mike but… accessible, like luxury, is relative and this ‘new’ design is the younger better looking brother of the family.
“Better looking”…no…proportions are way off…fat square head on bracelet the doesn’t match dimensionally…this could have good, but no
@@errolmclaughlin1482 Proportions where the bracelet meet the case do look odd in photos, a little better when not square on or from behind. I expect on the wrist it actually works. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
To each their own 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I might be alone on this but not agreeing with you confirms I’ve subscribed wisely. Otherwise I’d be sat in an echo chamber, inflating my confirmation bias and suffocating any independent thinking. excellent work
I think id buy a bell and ross two tone before this. Very similar looking
Amazing video, thank you for your honesty. If this watch was the same price as the Cartier Santos I would still buy the Cartier Santos. I would probably do it even if the price was a few thousand dollars lower !
It's a perspective at least, thanks 😀
Finally a realistic and rational review of this new release. Thank you.
Thanks
i saw several versions when i was in singapore a few weeks ago (the weekend it had been released)
i understand why they did it and honestly, i don't mind the Rose Gold 5821/1AR, there certainly are better watches but hey it's a relatively affordable patek.. so i'm definitely going to get one sometime in the future even if i generally prefer round faces aswell
Wow, an extra video and a great one. The true sin is charging $40k. If they released it under another brand name there would be less criticism. However, the watch would have died via indifference. As you have noted good design depends on symmetry that is often unconscious. This looks like a watch run through a pasta machine. Mash into thinness but don’t edit the width.
The watch is alright if it were just a few mm smaller. It’s still won’t be a Nautilus but would be much more desirable. This one unfortunately is still going to drop for a premium with eternal wait lists. I on the other hand am trying to find a good condition 3800 which is 38mm because I believe the Nautilus was a bit too big for its era and for a proper gentleman taste. As usual the most sensible and measured content I’ve watched in the past few days about the release of the Cubitus.
If they do a smaller version, I might warm more to it .😀