Scales in Terrain
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2018
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In this talk terrain video, we talk about scales in wargames terrain making. We cover what scaling is, including the different between absolute and abstract scaling used in wargaming. We look at the different types of scaling, traditional, wargaming and railroad scaling as well as talking in depth about the common scales of wargaming and their implications for terrain and scenery makers.
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So what scale tips do you folks have?
10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 28mm. And terrain for all of it. So much space...
1:72?
Factor 50.
Seconded; As a model aircraft maker, it would be useful to know where I could get 1:72 and 1:144 compatible figurines, especially as Airfix no longer make figures and the available 1:76 and HO/OO scale figures look horrendously off.
Maybe N scale?
I've never actually found a video or tutorial of any kind that covers this subject this well, thank you Mel!
Cheers bud
"We don't Wargame in 54mm"
Laughs in inquisitor
I've noticed the same thing in many computer games - they also use a kind of abstract scaling to make games be actually playable, and not just 'walking simulators' with occasional splashes of action.
If one looks at a typical MMO(RPG), everything is scrunched up so that it's possible to run from a town, over a hill, across a stream and get to the bandit camp. In absolute scales, you'd be walking/running for hours just to get to the camp.
Abstract scale also lends itself well to the 'cartoony' style of many games, where many terrain features and items are out of scale relative to the characters to lend a visual emphasis.
Yep, now you mention it, it is isn't it. Well spotted buddy! That helps with try to explain it in the future :-D
Scaling in video games also keeps the art budget under control! 😁
This always bothered me in RTS games.
I played an MMO many years ago that used absolute scales... it was very very boring. You had to just weigh down the run key and leave it for a few hours. All the buildings and settlements were built by players (which was a very interesting idea), but not very many people played it, so you could go a long time before seeing anyone or any settlements. XD
Oh well the nostalgia..
played with toy soldiers, in fact that’s what they all are, all my life.
From the earliest playmobil, into roughly 54mm toyfigures, such as timpo, britains, starlux, elastolin.. Together with the many 1:72 plastic figures, 20mm as you call it. You know, airfix, matchbox, esci, revell, amongst many others. Then in the seventies started with making tin soldiers, mainly 40mm en 25mm. Prince august, the black rubber moulds and nürnberger meister zinn, the aluminium ones with yellow parts. Then a huge gap, because, let’s be fair, music, girls and alcohol, and just life in general. Only the hobby picked up again some 15 years ago. Now, the golden age of 1:72, 20mm and the whole new world of 28mm. So much to collect and to paint and to build!
Keep up coming the nice vids mel, cheers from holland
The Railroad system is based around names Lionel 'O' scale of the pre-war era. O is approximately 1:43, HO (Half-O) is 1/2 O scale at about 1/87. S scale is "Standard" scale used by American Flyer. G scale is Garden scale, designed for outdoor use, TT scale is Table-top scale (designed in the 50's to fit on the average American dining room table) N scale is called N for no real reason (originally called OOO or 1/3O for being at 1/160), and Z scale is called Z because it is the smallest possible scale (it's small enough that you could fit an entire layout in a briefcase!).
theres now T scale which is smaller that Z
T scale works out at 1;450 the track is only 3mm wide
bmozzer oh shit, that's the Japanese scale isn't it? You'd need teeny tiny to fit in a Japanese apartment
OO Gauge = 4mm to the foot
HO Gauge= 3.5mm to the foot
UK O Gauge=7mm to the foot
Uk OOO/ N Gauge= 2mm to the foot
Cheers buddy!
If you can find Z scale buildings and vegetation they work pretty well for micro armor. 1/220 (Z scale) isn't that far from 1/285.
Two things I've discovered:
1) The Plasticville O-Scale buildings work amazingly well with 28mm models. If you're looking for buildings in the "Americana" mold, the Plasticville offerings are pretty excellent. They also use an abstract scale, using correctly sized doors and windows to create the illusion of true scale, while the buildings themselves are significantly smaller than they would be in real life. They also are very easy to assemble with removable roofs allowing access to interiors.
2) Though they should be massively oversized, I find that 1:43 scale cars work exceptionally well with 28mm models. True scale cars tend to look too small because the miniatures tend to have a base that adds height to the model, making them seem to loom over the cars, but that same base means they look nice standing next to the 1:43 cars. This is great for modern wargamers, because it means that cars can be picked up quite cheaply (I once bought a box of 24 police cruisers for US$10), and that there are a huge number of cars from movies available.
Thanks for the info bud
Thanks. Replying to find again
And on a more serious note, if you assume a man is 5 foot 6 inches to the eye, then they would be a six foot tall man. So, in 4mm (1/76th) a man would be 22mm to the eye wargaming figure, which is approximately old school 25mm figure.
And that is at the core of the confusion between wargame figures that are a height size versus figures that are a size from the scale ratio. The reason for some of the changes to proportions of the figure are due to the necessity of making smaller figures robust enough to be handled.
Here's a link to an illustration that compares heights to scales.
One thing when you mentioned Abstract scale that came to my mind was that some wargames don't even have an internal consistency to their scale! Flames of War has a 15 mm scale... Most of the time. Infantry, tanks, artillery, all a scale of 1:100. But aircraft have a scale of 1:150. Now, either that was done to make the planes smaller and more manageable, or there are more 1:150 scaled aircraft miniatures available, I don't know, but that's a fun little tidbit I think at least someone will have a chuckle at.
So we build our own...I accept the challenge...eventually...
Gathering supplies, tossing ideas about.
You got a cool channel, and this video was enlightening on scaling. Building a terrain piece so a vision impaired friend can get close to see...
Hey buddy. I must start off by saying i am not into wargaming or model making but i seen one of your videos in my recommend feed and checked it out. I subscribed to your channel because your passion and enthusiasm is infectious. You seem like someone I'd buy a beer or two for just for the company.
Also i know of your home town from one of my passions.... Strong man competitions. Last year's world strongest man Eddie Hall lives in the same town. Much love and many blessings from the U.S.
Cheers buddy, and I know Eddie, he lives next door to my lads best friend from school, he's a really nice guy, so softly spoken outside the arena mate
I've been impressed with the few videos I've seen and this one is so informative! Subscribed!
Just a note, doll house scale is usually 1/12. Very good for creating details.
Thanks Mel, this was a really useful and informative video!
Clear and concise. Brilliant!
Just stumbled across this video.
Thank you for explaining this as well as you did.
I'm an architect and it took me ages to work out the 28mm vs 1:56 thing, I'm so used to working in ratio scales
I use 1/35 in Military Static Diorama Scale as opposed to 1/72 which is smaller model of course. ie a German Panzer Tank in a Diorama which still means I can scale down my buildings a bit watching your vids on the buildings. thanks again!
A complex subject well handled. Good job.
Yet again, you have helped me Immensely.
Win!
Brigade Models do a range of 1:1200 scale buildings across a variety of periods.
A lot of historical wargames (pre WW1) use a mix of scales - figure scale (the size/scale of each figure), troop scale (how many men each figure represents) and ground scale (derived from figure scale and troop scale) Often the scale of buildings used will be somewhere between the ground scale and the figure scale, eg 10mm buildings for games with 15mm figures.
Abstract scales tend to be for large skirmish sci-fi games and a certain historical one written by a former writer of a large skirmish sci-fi. Chain of Command uses a ground scale of 1:120, but artillery and mortars are off-table.
For 28mm gaming, there are two potential sources of scatter terrain (furniture for instance) - architectural models and dolls house bits.
Awesome sauce Tam, thanks mate!
One wargame you can totally scale right and still use a six foot board is GHQ micro armor, their models are amazing and scaled at 1/285th. Also GHQ has a hexagon terrain system that works amazing as both terrain and a way of measuring movement.
There are a few board games from Fantasy Flight that have 54 mil models for skirmish but they are usually just figures, not terrain models. Any terrain is usually represented abstractly with larger tokens.
I was born into 25mm with AD&D 1e and 28mm with Warhammer 3e, so these will always be my scale. Personally I like detailed gaming models and these scales provide the best details for humans, humanoids, and the like (though now expanded with Star Wars Legion at 35mm).
Excellent tutorial, spot on. I feel like scale depends a great deal on what you want to accomplish on the table or with the game rules. I think that this issue goes hand in hand with your Terrain Triad -- Scale can refer to so many aspects of the table: Figure scale, unit scale (how many men to a fig I mean), Ground scale, Time scale... I have found for example that rules designed for say 15mm Naopleonic stuff (large battles) with a ground scale of 50 yds to an inch, or even 100yds to the inch, look even better (and make much more visual sense) when played with say 10mm or even 6mm miniatures...that also adds to the possibilities for terrain.
Another consideration for terrain is 'does it really have an impact on the fighting/soldiers - or is it just for show' in which case use something smaller. I have seen a table at a convention here in the states with some beautiful 28mm Sarissa buildings on them - the problem was that they dominated the table at the 'absolute scale' and made everything else look way too small for a skirmish level game.
Well said buddy!
Very informative. I was looking at making a dio with a rail line in it. I asked a friend which scale I should use for 1/35 and was told "N" scale. Personally, I've never heard of "I" scale before, but that sounds like the ticket
Thanks Thomas!
this is why I use 1/285/300 for all games that use any kind of armor, planes/spaceships and artilleries. I do mix&match models from bigger scales if i find it better suiting to my theme.
Thank you this has been so helpful
Most miniature manufacturers aren't even able to keep the same scale. Warlord for example is all over the place ranging from almost 25mm to 28mm somewhat heroic - and the vehicles and buildings are even worse. They will happily sell you 1:72 stuff for Bolt Action for example. My general rule for scale is: fuck it, as long as it looks cool it's fine
Wow - that is a lot of info in a fairly short vid - GREAT JOB!!!!!!
Thanks Kat
great video sir. note to my other comments. I have been trying to make some terrain with stuff I find in the house garage trash bin or with material purchased. When I was young family used to go out to the desert by San Diego and we would collect rock specimens and we would buy some rocks from geological shows so I've got a lot of good hill n mountain pieces to work with to create obstructions in the field, or the Himalayas to your left flank...
Great video , I also like that you bring up the railroad scale vrs terrain boards railroad makers have alot more leeway in their builds
lucky buggers!
The N in N scale actually stands for Nine as there is 9mm between tracks, this is constant across the international variations in scale. There are 3 variations of N scale 1:148 UK, 1:160 US and most of the rest of world, and 1:150 which is used in Japan.
thats amazing,thank you so much for sharing.
Hope it helps mate
Very interesting ! 👍🏻
Thanks for this. I've been having the dissonance of scaling trying to build things.
Something quite important because it was talked about extensively:
1:56th scale vehicles will not fit your 28mm miniatures, especially the Bolt Action stuff! That may sound weird, but Warlord just made an executive decision to use that scale, and it's not a big deal if you just use it for wargaming.
But if you want to create dioramas true to scale you're better off with the 1:48th scale (Tamiya has a lot, for reasonable prices) or 1:50th scale model and toy cars (etc.).
That is also my tip for the day; for terrain and vehicles you can scour your local toy shops, dollar stores and ebay for 1:50th scale toys.If you want some cheap furniture and other good stuff, look up architect supply shops, they have stuff in 1:52nd scale in a wide variety for small money! Even toilets, sinks and bicycles!As always, love your video Mel, have a good one!
Well written buddy!
That's why I avoid all historical games by Warlord games. Completely arbitrary historical reality be damned.
I am going to be the constructive critic great job you really needed to bring out figure and terrain or structures for a visual it would have made the video so much better and engaging. Thanks nice work
There's also special railroad set/scale of objects called usually "H0/TT". They supposed to be universal for this systems (so 1:87 and 1:120) and the scale is usually around 1:100. Trees and other natural things without exact sizes.
When Mythic Games' Time of Legends: Joan of Arc kickstarter delivers, there's going to be a bunch of 15mm terrain that gets released with it. IIRC, there's a medieval village pack, an abbey, a castle set, as well as a large inn.
I'll need to check that out!
Funny enough many 6mm systems which deal with tanks and so work on a different mapscale, so they can keep realistic weapon ranges (modern tanks shoot 2km or more so they would need a table over 7 meters for something to be out of range) So often you have a scale of 1 inch = 50m, use real world weapon data but your terrain still is 1:285/300 to look nice on the table. Battletech as a sci-fi game also does its minis in 1:285 but the maps are 1:1200.
Thanks, Mel. Good subject. I am used to it, but it would have been nice to have this info when I started. LOL
It's always the way mate
Love scales... playing with 6mm (1:300) while obstacles and buildings are in 1:600, to add larger towns. the rails are Z, and rule messurements are in inch, but I based the units on 2cm, rather than 2,5cm. The confusion becomes perfect after the gaming party desided to scale our messuring sticks up from 3 to 5 cm to speed up gaming, calling everything 100 foot.
A total mess... but some how works. ;-)
Great vid Mel!
Cheers bud
Heat wave lolol I am in Vegas...my cold is 26, and a pleasant 41 out. :P Keep up the great vids!!
Yeah but we don't have AC!
This is an awesome video! My son plays warhammer, I like Star Wars legions. It appears they are both about 28mm. So we should be able to use the same terrains
Hi need advice advice on size eg smaller size like a shield generator like in hoth scene
How would work out the dermertions for a shelf shelid generator like in hoth
Thank you so much for this video. I'm only halfway through it; I will finish it tomorrow (it's late) But I am trying to scratch-build some buildings and other terrain for 15mm and the scale was driving me crazy. I was trying to use absolute scale, and the commercial examples I looked at were too small. But anything I designed with realistic proportions was too big for the table.
The best way I've been described scale is like this: If it is 1/87 or 1:87 that means it is 87 times smaller than the original, just like 1/48 or 1:48 is 48 times smaller than the original. It does get confusing when people talk about scale in millimetres, just find out what scale ratio is related to the model that is in millimetres eg 18.5mm and find out what that ratio is which is 1/87 scale. So 15mm scale is 1/107 which is 107 times smaller than the original. To prove it is pretty accurate a 1:220 (1/220) tree that is 50mm or approx 2 inches tall, multiply the 50mm by 220 and that will give you it's actual height, of 11,000mm or 11 metres. To put it into feet and inches that would be 10 metres is approx 30 ft and there approx 3 feet in a metre that means the tree is approx 33 feet high (33'). if using feet and inches just remember to to convert accordingly. Another quick example is a model train that is 1/87 (1:87) 200mm or approx 8 inches in length, multiply 200mm by 87 and that will give you it's length of 17,400 mm or 17.4 meters or in inches 8" x 87 = 696" inches. Divide te 696" by 12" (which is 1 foot) and that will give you 58 Feet (58'). It is the usage of millimetres, eg 15, 23.5, 6 etc describing scale without using scale ratio eg 1/43, 1/56, 1/32 etc that confuses people sometimes especially when it comes to conversion. I still get confused too.....If a car is 5.5 metres long and you would like to convert it to a scale of 1/160, convert 5.5 meters into millimetre so it is 5,500mm then divide it by your appropriate scale of 160 which will give you 34.375mm for you scaled car length.
The reason for the millimeters (originally fractions of an inch, or even metric inches) is that instead of having to divide by a ratio one can just use the calculated ratio of an inch/foot/ meter etc to work out the lencht of something one is trying to replicate.
You are awesome!
railroad scaling has to do with the distance between the rails. Scale
Scale Ratio Model gauge
N 1:160 0.353 in (8.97 mm)
TT 1:120 0.470 in (11.94 mm) 0.472 in (12 mm) 12 mm (0.472 in)
HOn2 or 3.5 mm 1:87.1 7 mm (0.276 in)
HOn30 or 3.5 mm 1.87.1 9 mm (0.354 in) (0.353 in.)
Cheers bud!
Good job
Even model railroad scales aren't set in stone. In H0 buildings there's a lot of difference too. Some buildings, even within a range like Faller's, are leaning more towards 1/100, meant to be (cheaper) background models that give a forced perspective. Auhagen even has a small range that it explicitly labels H0/TT. They are perfect for 15mm gaming, FOW.
Hey Mel you forgot Dropfleet Commander, the scale for that is 1: 15,000 ;) Great talk btw very informative.
Great info as always. I build 1/56.
Cheers bud
What an amazing video, I have been modelling and wargaming since the early 60s and I learned so much from your instruction.
If you want to get more of a background to the history of some of the scales get back to me and perhaps we could have a chat.
PS. Is a dollar still 5 shillings/ 25p?
Probably mentioned before, but S scale is close to 28mm
i enjoy all your showes, i am a beginer, only made 4 cabins useing maatch sticks and tooth pickes,could you help me by letting me know were i can buy details on how to work out a scale, and were i can purchas minetures , like cowboys, animals, plus if you know of were there is to be a large show, of dioramas, and modeling, my cabin are aroung 4 ft high, and the doors are 1 inch high, hoping you can help me , ime sure enjoying making the, i live in barnstable devon, thank you fred plews
in years of wargaming i have only come across 1 game in absolute scale, Force on Force.
an Argentinian with an FAL has a range of "Can i draw line of sight".
the game balances this with Training being a huge factor.
Makes me giggle to think at absolute scale, my old smg was lethal across an entire tabletop, my old slr was lethal across the entirety of warhammer world and my sa80 was lethal upto 12 inches (not to scale, just twelve inches lol)
Almost all the Too Fat Lardies games are absolute scale. The main use of abstract scale is to allow you to show your mates how nice your howitzers are painted. Also to sell you howitzer and self propelled gun models. 😁
Seconded.
Force on Force and it's Sci-Fi version, Tomorrow's War, are both quite fun! I play Crossfire in 6mm, which ends up with a ground scale pretty close to the figure scale. I suspect some of the smaller pre-gunpowder skirmish games might be fairly close as well.
Fast and Dirty sorta-kinda came close, since most small arms were typically shooting well over 5' anyways. There was also an old...I wanna say 2mm..."Cold War Gone Hot" game an old friend introduced me to that, near as can be told, was completely to-scale.
Great vid Mel. Thanx for addressing this subject. I'm sure we are all now completely befuddled, lol. In other words, if it LOOKS RIGHT, go with it. BTW, we are still waiting for tutorials on smaller scale terraining. Hint, hint. ;-)
I hear you bud ;-)
Hey Mel,
I was just wondering what your thoughts on 1/72 scale. I recently got a bunch of medieval miniatures in this scale and am wondering what my options for buildings are. I see a lot on ebay but that tends to be the majority of the variety.
Not Mel - sorry - 1/72 is roughly HO/OO so you will find a fair bit for model railroads.
Nathan Rogers also search for 20mm buildings. Are you looking at medieval Europe or other locales? There both mdf and resin medieval buildings available in 1/72 and 20mm, depending on where in the world your medieval figs are at war!
As Graham and Pat said bud, sounds like they know the scale better than me
Ah, 1/72 is the old Imperial version of what became 1/76th scale. The first uses fractions of an inch, the latter millimeters.
Disappointed you missed 20mm, possibly the widest selection for ww2 and napoleonic in plastic, Resin and metal. Big bonus is the buildings from model railway manufacturers.
Railway modeling does use letters to denote scale but they're actually just shorthand for fractional scale. O scale = 1:48, HO scale = 1:96, etc...
The Sails of Glory ships you showed are 1:000. A lot of other naval games use 1:200. There's actually a fair amount of buildings and such for those scales being made by companies like Langton and Brigade Models.
Hey Mel, Nice vid for an introduction and explanation for new folks [as usual], although some other folks may be unhappy that you didn't mention their preferred scale [as usual]. I tend to hit the wikipedia mini scale page for a comparison of fractional scale, railway scale and eye-height mm scale: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scale_model_sizes - I find it quite useful when working out how things will look when together on-table. IMO, 28mm minis don't scale that well with 1/56 vehicles, so I prefer 1/50 or 1/48 (even some 1/43) - although the range available is obviously smaller that the growing variety of 1/56 stuff from the recent explosion in interest in various WWII games at that scale. Thanks for keeping the good content coming. Cheers, mate.
Cheers buddy, and thanks for the link!
What's the name of the tank game? Is that 1:300?
Hey im finding it hard to work out what scale my GW orcs are because some of my moddels are 24 foot-eye and some are p32 foot-eye and they go with my goblin army which is 15 foot-eye can anyone help?
Aaron Khanlarian hi, I’ve seen warhammer and 40k described as “heroic” scale which is basically 32mm. Remember a goblin would be the size of a beefy 12 year old real world human and your average orc is going to be upwards of 7 feet high and almost as wide, so I’d go with anything from the 28mm scenery ranges or obviously GW scale their scenery to their troop kits ;)
GW uses an elastic tape measure mate, to work out their scale, use the following formula ... 1:D60 :-)
As you noted most wargames user a foreshortened ground scale compared to the height of the models. if a 28mm model is supposed to represent a 6 foot soldier then one inch needs to represent close to 70 inches.
You need to consider something close to the vertical height of the model to ensure things like Line of Sight work. for 28 mm models you want to have the ceilings about 2" high so models look OK up against the eaves. You might want to scale down the footprint of a building to something closer to the ground scale. Although you might end up with something that look like it belongs in Noddy town or Roger Rabbit.
Nice points buddy
I work in OO guage 4mm to the foot or 6 feet equals 1 inch or 1:76 ratio the dilemmas of scales. My partner is 6 foot so I have a perfect height pole when taking photos.
That's smart!
Yup! Train scale is pretty much the distance between the tracks.
Warlord Games’ Doctor Who Exterminate skirmish wargame minis are 40mm, which is odd and irritating for building scale. What’s the ratio for that size of mini?
40mm is 1:40 mate
question, im in need of cars for post apoc 28mm game what scale would work best for cars...is it 1:48 or 1:56
Lee Johnson either/or. 1:48 will be a lot more available. You also have to compare the cars next to your figures, because stuff that's "in scale" often looks very wrong with wargaming. For example, 1/56 raillines and trains for 28mm (which is roughly in scale) look way too big. You have to judge it by eye
thank you
1:43 is a common diecast car scale. Technically too big for 28mm, but if your figures are on thick slotta-type bases the visual effect is pretty good. It's my preferred combination for non-military vehicles.
thank you
cheers
I use H-O scale and 25 mm in my Civil War minns. Because I use H-o buildings. In my fantasy use 25mm or 28mms. Trees are H-O scale.
Cheers bud
i work in 1:72 scale and its hard to find stuff to do my diarama's i realy have lernt a lot from you over the years ive been following you MEL thanks again mate , and heheheheh heat wave i wish it winter in australia at the moment and ive been getting high's of 8 to 12 degrees celsiouse cant wait for summer when we get high's of over 40 c, oh by the way im broke as so i have to make my stuff
Yeah, but us brits aren't equipped for this burning ball of fire in the sky
you will be OK mel just stay out the sun hehehehehe
I want to say thanks. It is an important skill to have if you are going to buy or build for yourself. The purists are gong to complain but no one really cares.
Thanks buddy
I am finding that ploberm no with the scaleing
Yes so true I am trying to get the scale right need some help
GW started off 25mm, not 28mm, back when they were working with Ral Partha. And most roleplaying minis continue to be 25mm. The scale gets more funky when you consider that the mm scale is based on specifically a 2m tall human male standing upright in a neutral position. GW and many fantasy mini makers have a variety of races who may not average out to 2m tall, and as such those minis may be bigger or smaller accordingly. GW moved up to 28mm during the late 90s and early 00s; kind of... mainly only the Space Marines though initially since they're genetically engineered super human beefcakes in massive power armor. They needed to look appropriately bulky.
The latest change started with Age of Sigmar moving straight up to "28mm Heroic Scale", which for most of the models is actually just 32mm scale, but allows you to keep using your 25-28mm WH Fantasy models. So lots more weirdness as a result. This new line is all digitally modeled instead of hand sculpted too, which means all the models are in-scale to one another.
Now 40K is moving up to officially being 28mm across the entire line with Space Marines and other units, who are intended to be massive and chunky per the lore of the game, being in the 28mm Heroic/32mm scale. This is also being done digitally with all models being in-scale to one another, _except for vehicles_ which are slightly smaller than they ought to be.
Ultimately, this leads to AoS looking larger than 40K even under the new scaling. And the digital modeling means all new models are much more consistent regardless of their pose, gear, etc. as well as having cleaner/sharper details for paint nuts like me :)
The Abstract Skraelings really confused the heck out of Leif Erikson and his Vikings in Vinland.
Learn something new everyday!
I think that GW 8mm scale is for Adapetus Titanicus, which has the Imperial Knights as the standard unit, and the massive Warlord Titan as a special unit you can buy that's 6 inches tall. So if they did that in 10mm it would balloon those Warlord models to... 7.2 inches? I think. Darned things are $110 USD as it is.
They just changed the scale from their own game Epic / Titanicus (6mm) to 8mm so your old models look stupid compared to the new ones. Or they just wanted to put more detail onto them, so upscaling is easy ^^
Cool...
I'm pretty sure GW's Inquistor game was 54 mm scale.
Also regarding Railway scales, at least in the US, you're very likely to find O (1:45), HO (1:87), and N (1:160) scales. Smaller you might be able to find Z scale (1:220), but I haven't seen much of it around. O is fairly common, and HO (which originally meant "half-O") is by far the most common. S-Scale (1:64) is great for gaming needs, but is basically not available in the US. Might be better to find that in Europe?
I still have that, never played it, but I did buy the marine model for a salute for my cityfight board. Did anyone ever play/build terrain for it?
Thanks for the info buddy!
What is banana scale?
Actually, really useful
Hello mate 28mm is the size 1/56 is the scale in Bolt action.
So with this being addressed, im going to risk sounding like an idiot and saying that the Necromunda terrain walls from GW seems like they're off-scale to the rest of the 40k stuff. Is it just me?
I haven't played with them yet, so I'm not sure mate
40k scales are all over the place. Many of the figure ranges have multiple scales. Scale consistency has not been a goal for GW. Until now. When they want to sell you some bigger space marines. 😉
Lol well, you're not wrong there. I guess if nothing else, I can use them in my Space Hulk board games!
GW will insist that their stuff is 28mm but as the video explained their 40k stuff isn't even remotely close even if you take into account that space marines are supposed to be quite a bit above average human height.
Hi legeron scale hard to learn how to set up
54mm is common in old school war gaming using Britains or equivalent sized figures. It is a niche area but not without its followers.
Until Salute, I'd never seen them wargamed mate, I genuinely thought they were purely collectors but I'm intrigued now
Gert video learning heps
No mention of 20mm, 1/72 lot of WW2 in that scale.
To be honest mate, I never seen 20mm online or at the shows anymore, well apart from the occasional table. I honestly thought it'd died out.
TheTerrainTutor
For a guy that seems hugely knowledgeable about "the hobby", I'm amazed (shocked to the core actually!) that you would think that 20mm has died out... Bolt Action may be the popular choice around clubs and at conventions, but there are plenty of other rule systems out there that doesn't rely on a set scale, simply because they are written independent of figure manufacturers such as Warlord (or Battlefront for 15mm). Battlegroup, Chain of Command, Rapid Fire and many others are played with 20mm (usually 1/72 scale) these days, and there's actually MORE choice for this scale than for 28mm (although the lead is steadily shrinking - only because 1/72 has it all already 😁)! I'm not going to moan a lot about you skipping the scale in your video, as I get where your target audience are at, but I have to say that your response here felt a little bit like a punch in the face... Keep making great videos, and I'll forgive you before long, though!👍
Glad to see my fellow 1/72 20mm mafia members in the comments. The proper scale for serious people. 😁 It's good to remind the 28mm fans that their betters are about . And watching. And judging .
Gustav - To be honest mate, I'm not that knowledgable about the gaming hobby as a whole, I've always been a terrain guy and that where my efforts go. When it comes to the games, I know what I play and a know a little bit about the other systems because of followers like you who play them mate
How's the heat wave treating you? I've heard some nasty stories from my sister living in London, as well as some folks I know in Nottingham.
(And yeah, great video too ;-) )
I'm melting!
One thing you didn't really touch on is that most wargames figures aren't proportioned strictly to scale, they're generally a lot bulkier and chunkier. As a result wargame scaled figures and strict modelling scaled items don't look right next to eachother. You really have to judge things by eye, and take into account things like base thicknesses. I use 28mm minis and mix 28mm wargames terrain with O scale railroad buildings, with vehicles in 1:50, 1:48 and even 1:43 die cast cars. It really is best not to worry too much about the numbers and focus on the overall visual effect.
Thought I talked about heroic scale in the 28mm bit, but tips buddy!
I think I followed along?!
It hard with sererpler like bandi etc
TMP indeed looks like nothing has changed since 1998, but I still visit it daily. There are loads of useful info, especially on message boards.
Yep, a cracking site that time forgot
God bless 3D printing. And printing in general.
Mel, the scale link you mentioned in the video is missing from the comments. For all who need it, ... theminiaturespage.com/ref/scales.html
Well spotted bud!
28mm when you were 12? You missed out on the true 25mm minis then... all the original fantasy & RPG minis, like the beautiful sculps by Julie Guthrie and her like. I still have a load of those. I always thought the upscaling was because it was easier to sculpt in more detail.
You also missed out 2mm (or 3mm) scale, AKA 1:600 or so, a common ship modelling scale, also now available for wargamers. You have to see the aircraft, tanks and even infantry by Oddzial Osmy to believe the detail they can sculpt in.
Personally I'll stick to 10mm. Or 12mm. Or 1:144. Or 1:150. Or 1:160. Or N gauge. There's a world of possibilities there. I can game in a compatible scale all the way from dinosaurs (sadly outdated with no feathers) up to Star Wars...
Yeah, I think he flubbed that part just a bit. He said that they started at 28 and grew up to 32-36, but really they started at 25, grew up to 28, and now are ~30-32? Iirc there are a couple companies that make nominally 32mm figs that are relatively close to GW. I think it's not just to capture more detail, but so that you have to buy new models, otherwise your old ones look tiny and weak next to the modern ones. If there's one thing GW excels at, it's taking people's money.
With that said, many companies are standing firm in 28mm, so there's kind of a gap forming between actual 28mm (much of which can still be used with 25mm vehicles and artillery), and the edge of scale creep - which may end up with more companies switching to being nominally 32mm - we'll see.
Hi Mel, great vid. As for 6mm terrain features, mainly buildings, people can get them from Leven Miniatures (www.levenminiatures.co.uk/), Total Battle Miniatures (www.totalbattleminiatures.com/), TimeCast (www.timecastmodels.co.uk/buildings_catalogue/6mm_catalogue.html) and Brigade Models (in this case for sci-fi) (www.brigademodels.co.uk/6mmSF/index.html). Cheers